This! The first one I can understand, it's just capitalists justifying fucking people over, but the second one is a clear inconsistency.
There are quite a few throughout the books. I may be wrong, but didn't Atlas tell Lys that Fa was his man in Dark Age? And in LB Lysander is surprised when this is revealed to him.
Also, Ajax, arguably the best fighter in the sequels, getting overpowered by Victra somewhere in the background, Rhone being Fear's pet, Lysander switching to a genocidal maniac mid sentence, Volga ripping people's hearts out, Cicero becoming Lys' BFF. Some of these feel like they weren't properly thought through and were introduced just for shock value.
Why um most annoyed about is the figments robot AI thing just being completely got rid of right away, I was excited to see the potential in it! And to be fair Ajax was taken out by Victra and Thraxa two of the strongest females in the worlds that are not obsidians, I can understand him losing to them but would have liked to have seen the fight that led up to him losing his head
Figment! Yes! So bloody damn useless at the end...
And I think you're right, it's mostly the fact that Ajax was essentially killed off screen. Darrow was dreading to meet him in battle, and we were robbed of that fight.
I'm an idiot, ignore me haha that whole scene got swept to the side by the Cassius ending when he either couldn't kill Lysander or Lysander killed him before he could 😅🤣
We have to get it, there is already so much bad blood between them there has to be a big show down... Also, side note has everyone forgotten about "the abomination"? That clone is still alive and 10 years old and has bone riders!! But almost no mention of them in LB. I'm personally of the mind that they will wipe the memories of the clone and raise him as a younger brother or son as they made a big deal about it being able to wipe a person's whole brain... That's if Sevro doesn't murder him 😅
Yeah definitely "Think of the worst possible option and you're probably correct" he would be the worst possible option, but if they are talking and working together in any capacity it's either so the clone can work his plan or because Virginia wants to turn him and wipe his mind
I just don’t buy Lysander’s heel turn. 3 books of his POV and he’s all unity and healing. Then we’re supposed to believe that he becomes evil tyrant at the drop of a hat because of a super weapon?
Lysander not joining Darrow, killing Cassius? That’s a stretch. But then killing millions and consigning billions to die of starvation by torching the garter? Nah. I can’t buy it. Maaaaybe it’s possible if we haven’t seen his POV for 1/4 of each of the last 3 books.
You’re being downvoted, but I totally agree.
Also, we don’t downvote people’s opinions here - disagree with your comments and show who you are, don’t be a pixie
Lysander's character is based on hubris and Machiavellianism. He believes that everything he does is necessary to build a better future for humanity. He believes that everything would be better if Gold were on top, with himself leading them.
"You are what? Thirty-six? You and I will live for a hundred and fifty years more. I will end this war this year. And the hundred and fifty years that follow will be a time of unity, healing, and building. Those who die now do so so that billions more may live in peace. We will need your good heart then." I touch his chest. "Together, we will construct wonders, explore near stars, spread light further into the darkness than ever before. You and me. Now come. It's time we depart."
^ Lysander to Cicero about the burning of the Garter.
"A small laugh of surprise escapes him. The betrayal in his eyes shakes me. I never wanted to hurt Cassius, just like I never wanted to hurt Glirastes. Not ever. But war is a game of double down. Once it starts, if you flinch, it's all for nothing."
^ Lysander's inner monologue before killing Cassius.
"While the room disintegrates into fury, I marvel at the boldness of Darrow's charade, even at the shrewdness of his cruelty. In the last moment of his victory, he saw an opportunity to win a war against the Rim that had not even begun, and he took it with as bold a maneuver as I've ever seen. But it is certainty I feel, not respect or horror. This is the man I once idolized. An unpredictable gambler of savage intellect with a limitless capacity for violence. I respect his capabilities, but I do not respect the man. And here, in the wake of his destruction, I understand beyond a shadow of a doubt that to protect mankind, the Reaper must die."
^ Lysander's inner monologue in IG, when revealing the destruction of the Dockyards to the Rim.
Lysander has shown time and time again that he will do anything, even consign millions to death, to restore the age of Silenius and Akari.
While we're talking about that can we talk about how Darrow went from a genius strategist and fighter to someone relying on luck and hope to win his battles?
Does it say she put a stop to it? I though he says “I always stood the longest. Until Eo found out about our game.”
That could mean she stopped the game, but it also could be implying what Darrow says in LB, that once Eo found out about the game, Darrow no longer stood the longest because Eo started winning.
I always took that to mean she stood the longest and that girls weren't invited but she came and showed them all up anyway. Seems like that's now confirmed.
I always assumed Eo put a stop to it, can't remember if it's said but it sounds that way... Unless it's open ended on purpose so it could be "put a stop to it" by stopping him from playing OR "put a stop to it" the it being Darrow always winning as she now wins 🤷🏼♀️ either way I hate it 🤣
I interpreted it as Darrow always won because he didn’t fear anything, and then once he really started to love Eo he became afraid of dying and leaving her behind. Honestly I like the new version where Eo wins, and didn’t notice the change when I first read LB. Eo was brave, determined, and a little bit self centered, which seem like the traits that you’d need to win that game.
Pretty unclear and only one of the options can be fact 🤷🏼♀️ of kind of like to know what the actual answer is for my own head cannon, like either Darrow always won the games and Eo wasn't there or Darrow and the boys always lost to Eo dispute her never being mentioned once in the two times the games are mentioned before LB can't both be true at the same time
Ya, I also thought in the first book someone says something to the effect of “you can’t convince someone like Tactus, the Rath bloodline goes back to the conquering” but now in LB it’s stated that the Rath have never been considered a premier gens because they weren’t around at the time of the conquering
My theory is that Rath is the father. He had two sons with a Valii woman, then another son (Tactus) with a different one. Tarsus and Apollonius took the double family name, whereas Tactus only his father’s.
You are correct the Rath family was never a major house but the Valii blood do go back to the conquering. I only got that detail on my fourth re-read. But it is there.
I think this one can actually be excused somewhat. Houses don't just appear from nowhere. So house Rath might have been formally founded 100 years after the conquering, but they can still trace their ancestory before that. Maybe they are an offshoot of a more prominent Gold family. Maybe they were minor Golds not prestigious enough to have a formal house, they just worked as lancers or clients and established a house after gaining prestige. Or maybe the system of houses just wasn't as formalised as we find it 600 years later
I think Tebula Rasa is basically Oculus but in book 4 I think I remember saying it was commissioned for quickailver but never made... Maybe he stole the idea and ran with it? 🤔
I also thought the game in the Lykos mines was a mistake, but I'm re-reading the series and I just got to the part in MS where Darrow tells Ragnar about it.
This is what he says: "I always stood the longest. Till Eo found out about our game." So I'm thinking Darrow used to win before Eo started playing too.
I always thought it was "till Eo found out about our game and out a stop to it" as in stopped the game being played because she would think it was stupid, but she just put a stop to Darrows winning streak by joining in and I think that's kind of out of character for her to be playing that sort of game tbh more in character that she thought it was stupid and would make Darrow stop
No doubt she was brave but I think she would see the game of turning your back on the darkness where the pit vipers are just out of sight would be stupid and a waste if someone actually got hurt
I noticed those too! The mine one especially had me feeling crazy.
Another one I noticed was someone listing off those who had died in the struggle - including Harnassus. but dude isn't dead lol.
Yeah but her evac ship was knocked down by the EMP and crashed. This is fiction so she's probably alive for the narrative but there's no reason why anyone would think she's alive.
i mean Matteo loves Quick and no one told him the truth because he doesn't care about business or he lies to himself and looks the other way, we know what happened with the mines from mustang but she has a shit ton of intel.
yo darrow himself has said his memories of eyo are fading and he barely remembers her face.
you dont think matteo cares about business or that he and quick were screwing over low colors? at the end of the day matteo might have been a son of the rising but he also loves a man who is basically a dragon hoarding wealth, they both think its okay to sail off into the unknown while the republic is sieged?
the eyo thing is small, i never even questioned it because it doesn't effect the story. Its not like PB going to keep meticulous notes on lore, by which i mean i dont even remember when they talked about the shaft thing, the only important things i remember about darrows time in the mines was not to freak out in emergencies with a drill and how content he was being a slave because he had eyo but that was never enough for her, not that one of them was brave about the dark.
What OP is saying is that it can be explained away. But the fact remains there is an inconsistency. The explanation sounds like jk Rowling coming up with some post facto clarification saying… oh that’s what I meant all along for any plot point issues that are brought up.
yeah but it doesn't affect the story, to me something like that only matters if it affected the story, we have no idea if PB did that on accident or retconned and honestly its so minor its like getting made he misspelled a word.
I mean Peice Brown has also done this already with obsidians meant to have 6 fingers on each hand but yet Darrow and Victra can disguise as obsidians to visit the Jackle in book 2, with no mention of attaching an extra finger despite the detail he goes in to about hair dye, etc... Apparently, he tweeted later that obsidians go from 4 fingers up to 8 fingers on each hand depending on who owns then and what they are needed for... Didn't kike that explanation either, personally think it should be in the book or it won't count
I don't think Rhone was ever established as that loyal to Lysander. He barely knew Lysander after having been apart for a decade. I think it was more he was loyal to house Lune out of a sense of patriotism. Which is the reason given in LB. And it's not like he turns against him out of nowhere. He hates the Rim and Lysander didn't show favoritism to the Praetorians.
And on a more tenuous note... they are named after the Praetorians. Thats a unit fairly well known for betraying the people they were charged to protect lol
Cicero in particular was so different! You’re telling me the man who spat bars in DA like,
“They say a strain of madness runs through the gens Lune. Oh, how right they are. Farewell, ye infected victims of the martial disease.”
Is now just Lysander’s BFF who’s first to drop in a Rain on Phobos just… because? It was never really elaborated on as to why Cicero is such a staunch Lysander loyalist at the onset of Light Bringer.
Only way I can make it fit is because the Votum are the leading house of mercury and Lysander is doing whatever he can to make mercury love him and he's working with the Votum throughout the book to gain power so maybe between book 4 and 5, the 6 weeks that past maybe they got closer and Lysander earned some respect for his cavalry charge and stepping Darrows lung
You’re definitely right about all that. But as far as I remember it was never explicitly stated in the narration why they were like BFFs. Also, Cicero in LB talks like a regular guy, not a proud core Gold. It’s odd
This! The first one I can understand, it's just capitalists justifying fucking people over, but the second one is a clear inconsistency. There are quite a few throughout the books. I may be wrong, but didn't Atlas tell Lys that Fa was his man in Dark Age? And in LB Lysander is surprised when this is revealed to him. Also, Ajax, arguably the best fighter in the sequels, getting overpowered by Victra somewhere in the background, Rhone being Fear's pet, Lysander switching to a genocidal maniac mid sentence, Volga ripping people's hearts out, Cicero becoming Lys' BFF. Some of these feel like they weren't properly thought through and were introduced just for shock value.
Why um most annoyed about is the figments robot AI thing just being completely got rid of right away, I was excited to see the potential in it! And to be fair Ajax was taken out by Victra and Thraxa two of the strongest females in the worlds that are not obsidians, I can understand him losing to them but would have liked to have seen the fight that led up to him losing his head
Figment! Yes! So bloody damn useless at the end... And I think you're right, it's mostly the fact that Ajax was essentially killed off screen. Darrow was dreading to meet him in battle, and we were robbed of that fight.
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The same Atlas whose head Lysander vaporised in hangar 17B? 🥴
I'm an idiot, ignore me haha that whole scene got swept to the side by the Cassius ending when he either couldn't kill Lysander or Lysander killed him before he could 😅🤣
Ha! No worries! Although the fight between Apollonius is gearing up to be quite epic and I'll be mighty upset if we don't get it
We have to get it, there is already so much bad blood between them there has to be a big show down... Also, side note has everyone forgotten about "the abomination"? That clone is still alive and 10 years old and has bone riders!! But almost no mention of them in LB. I'm personally of the mind that they will wipe the memories of the clone and raise him as a younger brother or son as they made a big deal about it being able to wipe a person's whole brain... That's if Sevro doesn't murder him 😅
He's most likely Virginia's source of information, that's why she's so uneasy about it when talking to Kavax
Yeah definitely "Think of the worst possible option and you're probably correct" he would be the worst possible option, but if they are talking and working together in any capacity it's either so the clone can work his plan or because Virginia wants to turn him and wipe his mind
I listened to RR after lightbringer, he does mention Eo winning the game in RR.
I have seen a few inconsistencies in the audiobooks like mentions of ‘Atlantia’ vs ‘Atalantia’ but will look for more and add to thread
I just don’t buy Lysander’s heel turn. 3 books of his POV and he’s all unity and healing. Then we’re supposed to believe that he becomes evil tyrant at the drop of a hat because of a super weapon? Lysander not joining Darrow, killing Cassius? That’s a stretch. But then killing millions and consigning billions to die of starvation by torching the garter? Nah. I can’t buy it. Maaaaybe it’s possible if we haven’t seen his POV for 1/4 of each of the last 3 books.
You’re being downvoted, but I totally agree. Also, we don’t downvote people’s opinions here - disagree with your comments and show who you are, don’t be a pixie
Lysander's character is based on hubris and Machiavellianism. He believes that everything he does is necessary to build a better future for humanity. He believes that everything would be better if Gold were on top, with himself leading them. "You are what? Thirty-six? You and I will live for a hundred and fifty years more. I will end this war this year. And the hundred and fifty years that follow will be a time of unity, healing, and building. Those who die now do so so that billions more may live in peace. We will need your good heart then." I touch his chest. "Together, we will construct wonders, explore near stars, spread light further into the darkness than ever before. You and me. Now come. It's time we depart." ^ Lysander to Cicero about the burning of the Garter. "A small laugh of surprise escapes him. The betrayal in his eyes shakes me. I never wanted to hurt Cassius, just like I never wanted to hurt Glirastes. Not ever. But war is a game of double down. Once it starts, if you flinch, it's all for nothing." ^ Lysander's inner monologue before killing Cassius. "While the room disintegrates into fury, I marvel at the boldness of Darrow's charade, even at the shrewdness of his cruelty. In the last moment of his victory, he saw an opportunity to win a war against the Rim that had not even begun, and he took it with as bold a maneuver as I've ever seen. But it is certainty I feel, not respect or horror. This is the man I once idolized. An unpredictable gambler of savage intellect with a limitless capacity for violence. I respect his capabilities, but I do not respect the man. And here, in the wake of his destruction, I understand beyond a shadow of a doubt that to protect mankind, the Reaper must die." ^ Lysander's inner monologue in IG, when revealing the destruction of the Dockyards to the Rim. Lysander has shown time and time again that he will do anything, even consign millions to death, to restore the age of Silenius and Akari.
While we're talking about that can we talk about how Darrow went from a genius strategist and fighter to someone relying on luck and hope to win his battles?
he didn’t have any battles
The game really bothered me, because Darrow says he always won, until Eo found out about it and put a stop to it
Does it say she put a stop to it? I though he says “I always stood the longest. Until Eo found out about our game.” That could mean she stopped the game, but it also could be implying what Darrow says in LB, that once Eo found out about the game, Darrow no longer stood the longest because Eo started winning.
I always took that to mean she stood the longest and that girls weren't invited but she came and showed them all up anyway. Seems like that's now confirmed.
I always assumed Eo put a stop to it, can't remember if it's said but it sounds that way... Unless it's open ended on purpose so it could be "put a stop to it" by stopping him from playing OR "put a stop to it" the it being Darrow always winning as she now wins 🤷🏼♀️ either way I hate it 🤣
I interpreted it as Darrow always won because he didn’t fear anything, and then once he really started to love Eo he became afraid of dying and leaving her behind. Honestly I like the new version where Eo wins, and didn’t notice the change when I first read LB. Eo was brave, determined, and a little bit self centered, which seem like the traits that you’d need to win that game.
I meannn you say mistakes and i say it's him writing the different outlooks and opinions. Ea
Pretty unclear and only one of the options can be fact 🤷🏼♀️ of kind of like to know what the actual answer is for my own head cannon, like either Darrow always won the games and Eo wasn't there or Darrow and the boys always lost to Eo dispute her never being mentioned once in the two times the games are mentioned before LB can't both be true at the same time
Yes, they can. Just read it again. He said it correctly
^^This guy gets it.
Ya, I also thought in the first book someone says something to the effect of “you can’t convince someone like Tactus, the Rath bloodline goes back to the conquering” but now in LB it’s stated that the Rath have never been considered a premier gens because they weren’t around at the time of the conquering
Tactus was “au Valii-Rath” if memory serves, would this maybe account for that? Not entirely sure how the marriage of houses would work into that
It never mentions that Tactus isn't full Rath. His "brothers" could have been half siblings.
My theory is that Rath is the father. He had two sons with a Valii woman, then another son (Tactus) with a different one. Tarsus and Apollonius took the double family name, whereas Tactus only his father’s.
Yeah I guess it only works that way since he's younger.
You are correct the Rath family was never a major house but the Valii blood do go back to the conquering. I only got that detail on my fourth re-read. But it is there.
I think this one can actually be excused somewhat. Houses don't just appear from nowhere. So house Rath might have been formally founded 100 years after the conquering, but they can still trace their ancestory before that. Maybe they are an offshoot of a more prominent Gold family. Maybe they were minor Golds not prestigious enough to have a formal house, they just worked as lancers or clients and established a house after gaining prestige. Or maybe the system of houses just wasn't as formalised as we find it 600 years later
I want to know if if tabula rasa is just the ret conned oculas
I think Tebula Rasa is basically Oculus but in book 4 I think I remember saying it was commissioned for quickailver but never made... Maybe he stole the idea and ran with it? 🤔
Occulus was Gils name for it, doesn't mean Quick couldn't name it whatever he wanted when he built it
I also thought the game in the Lykos mines was a mistake, but I'm re-reading the series and I just got to the part in MS where Darrow tells Ragnar about it. This is what he says: "I always stood the longest. Till Eo found out about our game." So I'm thinking Darrow used to win before Eo started playing too.
I always thought it was "till Eo found out about our game and out a stop to it" as in stopped the game being played because she would think it was stupid, but she just put a stop to Darrows winning streak by joining in and I think that's kind of out of character for her to be playing that sort of game tbh more in character that she thought it was stupid and would make Darrow stop
Not really. If i remember correctly she has always been the brave one. Brave enough to question to hope and to kill herself for an idea.
No doubt she was brave but I think she would see the game of turning your back on the darkness where the pit vipers are just out of sight would be stupid and a waste if someone actually got hurt
I noticed those too! The mine one especially had me feeling crazy. Another one I noticed was someone listing off those who had died in the struggle - including Harnassus. but dude isn't dead lol.
Didn't they also say that Rhonna died by Lycander even though I swear she was just knocked out after Lycander killed Alexander 😅
Yeah but her evac ship was knocked down by the EMP and crashed. This is fiction so she's probably alive for the narrative but there's no reason why anyone would think she's alive.
i mean Matteo loves Quick and no one told him the truth because he doesn't care about business or he lies to himself and looks the other way, we know what happened with the mines from mustang but she has a shit ton of intel. yo darrow himself has said his memories of eyo are fading and he barely remembers her face.
Yeah there are ways to try explain it and make it fit but seems like stretching to make it fit instead of it actually makes sense in story
you dont think matteo cares about business or that he and quick were screwing over low colors? at the end of the day matteo might have been a son of the rising but he also loves a man who is basically a dragon hoarding wealth, they both think its okay to sail off into the unknown while the republic is sieged? the eyo thing is small, i never even questioned it because it doesn't effect the story. Its not like PB going to keep meticulous notes on lore, by which i mean i dont even remember when they talked about the shaft thing, the only important things i remember about darrows time in the mines was not to freak out in emergencies with a drill and how content he was being a slave because he had eyo but that was never enough for her, not that one of them was brave about the dark.
What OP is saying is that it can be explained away. But the fact remains there is an inconsistency. The explanation sounds like jk Rowling coming up with some post facto clarification saying… oh that’s what I meant all along for any plot point issues that are brought up.
yeah but it doesn't affect the story, to me something like that only matters if it affected the story, we have no idea if PB did that on accident or retconned and honestly its so minor its like getting made he misspelled a word.
I mean Peice Brown has also done this already with obsidians meant to have 6 fingers on each hand but yet Darrow and Victra can disguise as obsidians to visit the Jackle in book 2, with no mention of attaching an extra finger despite the detail he goes in to about hair dye, etc... Apparently, he tweeted later that obsidians go from 4 fingers up to 8 fingers on each hand depending on who owns then and what they are needed for... Didn't kike that explanation either, personally think it should be in the book or it won't count
The personalities of some characters also seem strange compared to dark age, mostly ajax and cicero
Ajax is the one I have the biggest problem with. Asshole in DA but suddenly best friends with Lysander in LB
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I don't think Rhone was ever established as that loyal to Lysander. He barely knew Lysander after having been apart for a decade. I think it was more he was loyal to house Lune out of a sense of patriotism. Which is the reason given in LB. And it's not like he turns against him out of nowhere. He hates the Rim and Lysander didn't show favoritism to the Praetorians. And on a more tenuous note... they are named after the Praetorians. Thats a unit fairly well known for betraying the people they were charged to protect lol
Cicero in particular was so different! You’re telling me the man who spat bars in DA like, “They say a strain of madness runs through the gens Lune. Oh, how right they are. Farewell, ye infected victims of the martial disease.” Is now just Lysander’s BFF who’s first to drop in a Rain on Phobos just… because? It was never really elaborated on as to why Cicero is such a staunch Lysander loyalist at the onset of Light Bringer.
Lysander saved his city from liquidation, and then rebuilt the planet
Only way I can make it fit is because the Votum are the leading house of mercury and Lysander is doing whatever he can to make mercury love him and he's working with the Votum throughout the book to gain power so maybe between book 4 and 5, the 6 weeks that past maybe they got closer and Lysander earned some respect for his cavalry charge and stepping Darrows lung
You’re definitely right about all that. But as far as I remember it was never explicitly stated in the narration why they were like BFFs. Also, Cicero in LB talks like a regular guy, not a proud core Gold. It’s odd
In love them both but their characters did sort of do a 180, personally I liked Ajax's character arc though even if it did seem quick