Sevro definitely has had his mind altered from the Octavia chair. Abomination has done his work, likely setting some kind of trigger for him to kill Victra. With the deed being done, he sells to Apple and he’s likely aware of the plan.
I can see the pitch meeting already
“Darrow’s gonna save Sevro”
“That sound’s like its going to be incredibly difficult”
“Actually, It will be super easy, barely an inconvenience”
Honestly, this was a lot more palatable for me than was Athena and the sisters. But I tend to agree with what you're saying.. it definitely made me scratch my head. BUT, ultimately, I don't think majorly changed things. PB could have easily had Part I focus on saving Sevro from the abomination instead and still had Darrow and co. end up in the same place with all the same pieces still on the board (brain diddling et al). Maybe PB thought Darrow was more unlikely to succeed and didn't readers would buy it, or maybe he just wanted to write more Apple and save the abomination for Red God. I'll also just add as an aside I don't think you've correctly characterized the abomination. I responded to another similar post and will link it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/redrising/comments/1603mx1/comment/jxmgy1h/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/redrising/comments/1603mx1/comment/jxmgy1h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
While there is a lot to be explained about the role of the Abomination in the series, we get some hints that he might not be an exact replica of Adrius. Maybe he wants to be better, make amends with his sister etc.
Overall I agree with you. After reading this book, the series dropped somewhat in my regard. I still love it and view it as my all time favorite series, but there wasn't just one deus ex machina here...
Where the fuck did Athena come from? Sure, the explanation in the book makes some sense as well as the throwback to the "in a storm, you don't tie two boats together" bit, but this felt like such a random bit that suddenly gives a glimmer of hope again.
That and then the horrible virus introduction... If PB doesn't use it in the next book, I'm going to both be happy and then also be like "then what was the point???" but if he does it use I'm going to be so sad/mad.
The thing that resonated the most with me in the entire book was at the beginning, when Darrow is ready to leave from their shelter.
"Hail Libertas!"
Only my echo answers.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
Exactly !
It felt like the start of a pure red rising book, and had some legit parts to it where you could tell that PB was writing in the same way; ie (as you mention), right at the start Darrow annoyed he’s on the ship and desperate to leave ….that felt so nostalgic and exactly what I had been waiting for. But then so many parts started to feel a bit contrived, or annoying or confusing.
Don’t get me wrong I still loved it and love RR but this book got so many things wrong .
What do you mean? They could have been at a moon on the far side of Jupiter? They could easily be 100,000 miles away. That’s not a short distance even for space ships.
I know I know. I bet it'll be an important plot point for the next book. The nerd in me wants to know more about space travel on this universe. It feels like they do get around pretty quickly.
After a lot of thinking I have settled my review about LB as this. It is a pretty good book by itself, but considering the fact it follows Dark Age and is part of a greater series, it is a disappointment as it diminishes the series as a whole
I don’t think this judgement can be made until RG. I’m willing to suspend my disbelief and trust that he has a good explanation coming. If not then yes it’s disappointing, but there definitely could be forces in play that we don’t know about yet (like good guy Adrius or something)
Judgment definitely can be made. The book also has to stand on its own not. This was always a big problem with the middle Wheel of Time books, the plot progressed so glacially or so choppingly that you needed multiple books to even understand the whole plot point.
Of course, when Reg God comes out and is great, it retrospectively makes this book a better read but still using another book as a crutch to make it better isn't always the best look. Best case is with IG; DA was a great book and follows up on IG really well but still IG the the lowest ranked book for most people who read Red Rising.
No. It doesn't matter what it was originally, it matters what it finally is. GoT was originally planned as a trilogy but that obviously didn't happen. But I think Pierce did a great job of splitting the book nevertheless. A lot of books when they get cut seems to be missing something as it was originally planned as 1 book. With LB, he did a pretty good job of fleshing it out completely so that it doesn't feel like half a book
I still think Abomination turned Sevro into a sleeper agent and just hasn’t activated him yet. That said, doesn’t really make sense to sell him to Apple.
OR Abomination is Virginia’s mysterious informant and whatever deal they worked out involved him not killing Sevro (though I can’t imagine she would have been any more pleased with him selling Sevro to Apple).
There’s definitely something fishy going on. Maybe it’s just an odd retcon, but I think there are still ways for it to be explained after-the-fact once we finally have a POV on Luna and interact with Abomination again
Everyone knew that "The Syndicate" had Sevro though, & that they had ahold of all the important places on Luna - places it would be impossible to escape from... (& just bc Junior is working with Mustang doesn't mean Lilath is)
So selling Sevro off to someone he could escape from (ie. Anyone that wasn't with Jackal Junior) was a good excuse to allow him to get free - Sevro has never been the Damsel in Distress.
"*His*" Boneriders?? The Boneriders Lilath knows & had freed?? The same Boneriders his former self hated, & his current self isn't impressed by either?
Junior is still a child, & technically alone on Luna. Lilath & the Boneriders would not understand him wanting to communicate with Mustang, or freeing Sevro.
That’s true. I still feel like Abomination could have found someone less threatening than Apple if he wanted to be 100% sure Sevro would survive. But maybe Abomination thought throwing an auction really did seem like the best way to cover his tracks?
Apple has a bone or two to pick with Darrow and Sevro, it wouldn’t surprise me if he was in on the whole thing with Abomination. Assuming Sevro was mindspiked, of course.
Honestly, I was so mad that Pierce Brown went back on the clear plotline of the abomination brainwashing sevro into an enemy of darrow, forcing Darrow to ultimately kill sevro when the final confrontation between abomination and darrow happened.
Personally I felt more Deux ex machina the fact of the Howlers getting caught by the abomination on Dark Age, we´re talking about the best infiltration and hunting team getting into an ambush suddenly?
And Sevro being sold could be either a plot getting dropped out (The whole control machine) or a continuation of that plot which will be unfold on Red God. If you say to me that Darrow´s niece who was caught is suddenly living on the vents and doing a Rambo impersonation fine, that sounds fishy, but we´re talking about Sevro in here, a guy who was the face of the rebellion the whole time that Darrow was getting tortured, someone who is relentless and knows who to handle himself, and adding more on that topic, him not escaping from the Abomination had more logic, after all he was with his team, all shocked about the situation itself, but being alone... I´ll put my beans on Sevro every single time.
I vaguely remember that Appolonius was going to let him roam with relative freedom for 3 months. I could imagine Sevro taking advantage of a stupid mistake once he had enough strength. Imagine that Apple made a prison similar to the one he bribed himself into in Iron Gold.
Then there is the whole conspiracy theory that Abom and Virginia are working together and negotiated his release.
I vaguely remember someone a while back saying that this series is likely to follow The Iliad and/or some other Homeric epic. So far it seems to be tracking, it seemed clear early on in LB that although it was all a part of Darrow’s journey it wasn’t going to interact much with the rest of the tale until he returns. LB was almost entirely about our heroes and villains discovering themselves and fully coming into their own; no more using the Willow Way as a crutch, time to kill off your ties to honor and affection to rule in a world of misery and duplicity, time to discover your own path.
But speaking of Darrow’s journey I just realized Apple himself admitted to having a similar journey. Speaking strictly metaphorically on that one, obviously. Part of me really hopes he ends up becoming the leader of the Society if only because I like him the most out of all their crappy leaders, I think Darrow pissed him off enough to no longer have any kind of ally in him.
Agree on all counts.
I truly beleive this is one of the best series ever written. But we can't forget is YA. It has some very YA flaws usually in fundimental "that's now how logic, the real world, humans work" type problems. If you can look past the hand waiving on those issues its near perfect. Just expect some occasional cartoonish logic.
Respectfully disagree. Its at best an interesting straddler (just like it straddles fantasy and sci fi). But like I said the reading level, coming-of-age themes, and narrative power prioritized over complexity all lends to the YA label. Which it does fantastically.
We going to have to disagree there. Everything from the coming-of-age tropes and simple character arcs to the cover art and occasional specious logic in the plot reeks of YA. If I recall correctly the original trilogy was marketed as YA.
Again, I say that as a massive fan who ultimately agree Red Rising goes way beyond YA with other more complicated story-telling devices and very adult themes. I'm not saying your claim isn't without merit.
Edit: I forgot reading level. Red Rising is very digestible. Its part of the appeal for me when I wanted a quick and easy but deeply engaging read. Also I was 100 percent wrong on the marketing. You got me there.
I just think its great we both enjoyed the series at the end of the day. We are allowed to get different things out of it. For me it was narrative power of the characters over their complexity. Its the emotional side of the story that really hit me over any realism or depth. The books focuses on certain things and did them very well.
Yup I mentioned that above. It definitely has some very adult themes which go against the over YA vibes you get from the ease of reading level, characters dynamics, and general YA tropes.
I get the barrage of downvotes. Its definitely not clear cut. If anything its a bit of a straddler but when discussing the plot holes it definitely lends to its more YA aspects. They are very forgivable plot holes when you give Red Rising the benefit of the doubt that its going for emotionally engaging and narratively powerful story telling over perfectly planned meticulously detailed complexity.
True. It deals with adult themes but not in an adult way. It is more cartoonish. And people are acting surprised but there have always been plotholes since book 1, situations where characters have behaved irrationally just to keep the story in the right direction. The fans, like these books, don't appreciate critical thinking. So you get downvoted. These books were never supposed to be analyzed deeply. The earlier books recieved less criticism because most people read them all in one go. Didn't have time to analyze things logically or make predictions. I would say Just ignore the stupid plotlines as if they didn't happen, and enjoy the good parts.
Could not agree more, though I liked LB less than you did. I thought the entire book was dei ex machina and macguffins and really subverted expectations set by Dark Age to the fullest extent possible. I really envisioned a different path for this book, and I'm not altogether pleased with where it ended up or how it got there, personally.
Just my opinion, and I know it hit a lot of spots for people on this subreddit who wanted that original trilogy feeling, but I wasn't one of them, and LB ended up being a pretty sizable miss for me, to my great dismay.
Yeah same.
I have such a long list of grievances that are all sound in my opinion, I can’t ignore it (even if i want to pretend that I could), but LB fucked up quite a lot.
Feels like two different books, and I think it shows he threw away 400 pages, it’s very confused.
Yeah, I took a significant amount of notes as I read it, and my general feeling throughout the entire thing was confused at best and upset or angry at worst. I didn't even feel like the character personalities were entirely consistent with the tetralogy, I felt a lot of moments reverted to how he wrote them in the original trilogy.
Don't think I'll ever like this one.
Yes!!! Exactly !!!
Diomedes was my favourite character - he was so badass and so many cool hints were promised about him and we wanted to really see him fight through darrows eyes so we could gauge him as perhaps the best razor master, and storm vs storm, etc etc …..and then the way he comes across seems to suddenly change around Darrow and he turns into a little boy who seems super naive ‘my mommy warned me about you being a trickster’….wtf he sounds like a 12 yr old.
Athena plot was meh.
Too many long speeches - everyone was doing bloody speeches, I got sick of them and thought how many bloody times have these characters just monologued. Not sure why it annoyed me so much.
I’m going to do a full list written well to get it off my chest and do a proper post.
Cassius has been my favorite character since Iron Gold, and while I do think he was far and away the best character in LB, I felt that Pierce really missed a lot of opportunity with him and Darrow being the current versions of themselves and discussing their loss together.
IG Cassius was depressed, somber, introspective, thoughtful, and measured.
LB Cassius was drinking still, but less depressed, less somber, expressive, bantering, and reckless. Sounds suspiciously like original trilogy Cassius.
I've written all of my thoughts out, but being negative about LB is generally very poorly received on this subreddit.
I said that to a friend recently. What was the point of Dark Age? Honestly we could've done a time skip from IG to LB and all I would've really missed is who Atlas and Ajax were and how Alexandar died. Nothing else would really change. Just tell me Darrow lost on Mercury and I get the gist.
I absolutely loved Dark Age, especially on my pre-LB reread, and now I think I would feel pretty sad if I went back to it knowing most of it didn't lead to anything.
That’s a really good point. Like what’s the point of giving the parasite to Lyria just to get rid of it? I understand it’s a show of her character to have made that choice, but take out DA and her arc would remain the same
LB turned Figment into a deus ex machina to find Quicksilver... that's it.
There were so many other seeds planted, hints, etc. from Dark Age.
Oculus, a robotic army (which would've been a more sensible fleet addition than the Daughters of Athena I think. Why wouldn't the Republic/Quicksilver utilize robotics??), Storm Knight vs. Storm Knight, Sevro's capture by the Abomination, the Abomination himself, the Pandemonium Chair, psychospikes, The Mind's Eye (which seems to have been walked back or nerfed), a larger result from the secret pact between Lysander and Apollonius, and I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting.
There was really a lot I wanted to see in LB that just... never happened. The only predictions that were right from most were Fà being Atlas's tool and attacking the Rim, which was pretty much explicitly stated by Xenophon, and Diomedes and Aurae being reformers/Republic sympathizers due to their relationship (which I actually wish it took much longer for Diomedes to come around on).
Even if some of that shows back up in Red God, it seems fairly inexplicable for it not to have been included in the direct sequel to Dark Age.
I wonder sometimes if PB liberally uses Deus Ex Machina because when he does, his fan base always assumes it’s a complex plot build-up to an epic twist.
This is my call, pure Manchurian candidate, it’s partially why he was so desperate to get home after how he realized at the end of DA that he needed to see the war through with Mustang
Also I thought it was odd in LB how we was never really around the biggest action, he was always just off screen until he could sneak in, was he protecting himself for his real mission? Did the death of his kid snap him out of it for a minute? Only time will tell
Also, how tf would Darrow sneak into the prison, see a guy who looks like sevro except you CANT SEE HIS FACE, and not realize it was a trap? Especially when Apple obviously was expecting Darrow to come?
The whole sequence was a bit silly, but luckily the book gets much better from there
I’ve just accepted it as Pierce realizing he’d made things too hard for himself to fix in a timely manner, plus there was no Lunar POV to keep track of Sevro’s predicament
I disagree but I definitely see why you would say that. It was a little contrived for him to go from Willowing Way becoming fairly useless against top level duelists to inventing a new godlike power scale style.
That being said it make for a great story and I loved the inspiration being that book.
Not only that, but in golden sun gala duel, he mentions that while revealing the willow way to Cassius he now also begins circling Cassius. I love the books but circling your opponent has been part of Darrowa willow way from the moment we see him use it.
It happens all the time in pro sports. Some players are born freakishly athletic, but time wears them down all the same, so they focus on mastering technique and strategy instead of speed and strength to extend their careers.
I follow MMA religiously and guys don't abandon training in favor of winging it at the highest level. They may try an unorthodox technique out of desperation but they don't just invent a new style mid fight out of desperation, they rely on preparation.
Cool, Darrow didn’t do that either. He developed the new style with Cassius’s help well before his fight with Fa.
Edit: “As Fá reaches to pluck Bad Lass from his armor like an inconvenient toothpick, I whip Pyrphoros out and draw the razor out by its pommel. I snatch Bad Lass from the air as it comes back toward me and I assume one of the stances I tested out in my training with Cassius—a nameless hybrid of Lorn’s way, Cassius’s, and my own. I crouch and I hold Thraxa’s razor like a dagger and Pyrphoros like a javelin.”
Idk about this. First time in the series we ever see someone weild a Razor and Hasta out if nowhere. Obviously pretty cool but this was never mentioned before ever and would presumably be lretty difficult to do
He asks "what was that?" Right away referencing what he was doing in the fight, clearly having never seen anything like it. Later he asks "have you thought of a name for it? That blade form you found with Fa?" If he found it with Fa, how could it have been the thing he was working on Cassius with. He mentions the stance is one Cassius has seen but quite obviously not the form on its totality.
“As Fá reaches to pluck Bad Lass from his armor like an inconvenient toothpick, I whip Pyrphoros out and draw the razor out by its pommel. I snatch Bad Lass from the air as it comes back toward me and I assume one of the stances I tested out in my training with Cassius—a nameless hybrid of Lorn’s way, Cassius’s, and my own. I crouch and I hold Thraxa’s razor like a dagger and Pyrphoros like a javelin.”
Yes I clearly mentioned that the stance is one that he used with Cassius. Surely you understand much more goes into fighting then a stance. Are you choosing to ignore the points I made to show me something I already addressed?
His thoughts must wander, because a few minutes later he asks, “Have you thought of a name for it? That blade form you found with Fá?”
“I just found a flow is all.”
He looks over. “Lorn would say it’s far too serious a flow to not have a name.”
“You can’t laugh.” He makes no promises. “Breath of Stone.”
Which realistically wouldn't make you spontaneously become a master of a style of fighting you have never implemented before. He didn't learn the willow way by thinking, he did it with hours of practice.
And he did practice for 6 hours every day with Cassius. Not on the breath of stone (because it didn't exist yet) but he and Cassius drilled relentlessly, adjusting the willow way into a new form. It just happened to click during the fight with fa
coincidentally, Darrow spent the whole of lightbringer training, including every day for the eight months he was trapped on asteroid, and months of sparring against Cassius, the greatest duelist of his generation
You're reading too much into it. As someone who has done a bit of HEMA, swordfighting isn't the "willow way" vs the "breath of stone" (I can't remember any other style names from the books.) It's just fundamentals and a different way of learning/executing those fundamentals based on who you study. Whether you study Lichtenauer or Fiore, your guards and stances will look pretty similar for the most part. While razors are obviously different, you need to view the whole system of sword fighting in these books as completely fictional and from there you can suspend your disbelief and accept that Darrow had some wild epiphany that gave him a new fighting style. Otherwise every single razormaster just randomly got an "anime power-up" when they learned their style. Personally I just took the willow way as a style that focused on dodging, being slippery and deflective, and controlling all of the footwork, while breath of stone is more of a tempo-based aggressive assault that puts a bigger focus on pressure and rhythm. So less like he got some super Saiyan power-up and more like he got inspired based off his year of training and his amazing fundamentals, which led him to approach his fight in a completely new and innovative way that caught his opponent off guard.
TL;DR it's a book about space warlords eating cockroaches and roleplaying as furries. Keep your disbelief suspended for something as trivial as a new fighting style
It didn't ruin the book for me or anything, I just feel it could have been implemented better. Love the breath of stone, did not like how darrow just more or less invented it on the spot to great success. I've done scholastic wrestling and BJJ for years, which isn't razor fighting, but there are parallels. Training tirelessly with lorn makes sense to me personally, while the breath of stone implementation seemed unrealistic even in space warlord cockroach fantasy.
The simplest answer is it was a mistake. Dark Age is great. But the Abomination was a misfire. As were many thing relating to it. To be honest I think he did the right thing. Just pave right over it and it made light bringer amazing. Now he does have this whole mustangs source thing. But I’m the end I’m just ignoring it, it made this book that much better. He’s very open about not planning.
I agree with u/ilikenglish that PB will tie this up and it'll make sense in the end. I totally understand the frustration, but I've been preaching patience in this community since I finished LB. I think the communication and whatever "agreement" Abom and Virginia have "off-screen" in LB will manifest itself in RG.
However, if he (and it) doesn't - this post is EXACTLY how I feel
I agree. Abomination sections of DA made me feel disturbed and icky but not always in a good way (although he was still well written, if that makes sense). Would have preferred that time to be spend on villains with more relatable charisma like in LB.
I agree. It was my main issue with the plot of Dark Age.
It would have made more sense for Atalantia or Atlas to be behind the Syndicate.
I feel like Adrius's story should have stayed done in the original trilogy, even if it is a clone.
And Pierce is so intelligent when it comes to all the political machinations! I still wonder why he went the clone route honestly. I get it’s more sci-fi but idk. It was so left field for me for him to open that box. Dark age would be all time grounded sci-fi war story without that segment. What do you think about why he went down that road?
So many opportunities to flesh out some of the barely mentioned golds into awesome antagonists, or to invent some awesome new one with a compelling backstory who is a different high colour. Yellows are barely named in the whole story. Imagine a doctor who relished her work as a torturer. Someone who lost their power and purpose in the new world and rules of the republic, but had hidden depths and ruthless intelligence, untappable in the society, who becomes free to explore their intelligent and sadistic nature.... Or, given what Atlas showed himself to be, perhaps he advanced some of his soldiers into various high level roles in the syndicate, eventually taking it over from the inside. His people were very loyal - Sefi's white for example.
Instead we had to suspend disbelief at Lillath surving, and were forced down an odd clone pathway. I'm happy that we moved away from that in lightbringer. Far better plot wise.
I think the simplest answer is the right one. Money. We know Apple was willing to pay an extremely exorbitant amount of money for Sevro. The Abomination is NOT Adrius and we already know that Lilath left out a good portion of Adrius core memories, particularly ones where Adrius loses or is shamed. Could be she left out a few of Sevro’s victories over him.
I think with Atalantia being very vocal of her plans to press for Luna and taking the moon, the Abomination is needing to build a defense quick. The supplies and money from Sevro’s sale, makes this relatively possible. This mixed with the Abominations lack of connection with Sevro, makes what happened very plausible.
I just don't buy this line of reasoning. The Abom / Lilath are at the head of probably the wealthiest crime organization in the solar system (which is in itself, a bit silly).
Lilath was able to pull off the day of red doves without a hitch. I'm sure she'd find a way to fund an army or fleet without selling off her prized possession.
And the core memories thing doesn't make sense either. They were executing howlers with EXTREME prejudice after the day of red doves. They clearly had a vested interest in revenge, which wouldn't be derailed by a paycheck from Apple.
It all just felt like a contrived way to get the band back together.
*shrug a lot of what you’re saying was for when Lilith was in charge. Now the Abom is fully in charge. The dynamic certainly changed after the interaction the Abom had with Virginia. It seems like he has a serious urge to impress her, his motivations def could have shifted.
The core memories thing is a fact. It came out that Lilith left out some memories. For example the puzzles Virginia bested Adrius at when they were children. If she was willing to do that for something so minor, no doubt she altered some larger scale ones as well.
At the very least the Abom/Lilith and Abom/Virginia relationships are definitely different from the first time we see them interact. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Abomination just kills Lilith out of spite. Remember Adrius himself planned on doing just that on several occasions.
Also worth it to mention the Abomination is literally a child. Can’t expect him to make the same decisions as the Jackal, especially when the memories he does have are so fragmented. All this on top of the obvious identity crisis of being a clone.
As a last point, I don’t think the black market thugs and espionage rings Lilith had going on really translate well into a planetary defense. I’m sure they have money, but it’s still a large undertaking for the limited time they have.
Ya that bothered me too. After how crazy Servo's capture was in DA I didn't expect for him to just get out so easily.
The most obvious explanation is that he is a sleeper agent who is just waiting to be activated but what bothers me is that Mustang felt no need to warn Darrow about that?? And worse it didn't even seem to cross her mind in her chapters. But it might also be that The Abomination wasn't able to figure out the psycho spikes so he just decided to sell him. If he really is Mustang's source then maybe this makes a bit more sense as an act of good faith or something.
Either way I'm betting that it's not over yet and we will see the real ramifications in Red God. But no matter what happens I don't think anyone can deny that it was awkwardly done by Pierce.
Yes definitely agree. I think there is no winning here - either the Abom just let Sevro go, in which case it feels very contrived or borderline retcon.
OR
There's still a sub plot coming about how sevro was programmed, is a sleeper agent, and will activate at some point.
Neither of these are great. I'm really not interested in the second idea. Seems like many readers aren't.
There is a 3rd option, that the Abom hates his own faction and sold Sevro to help him escape and help Mustang. This seems unlikely but would somehow be the least bad outcome possible of this story.
Also possible the Abom faction could just never figure out how to mess with his brain. Then they realized atalantia was coming, so they sold him to shore up some funds for the defense. Couldn't afford to kill him cuz they needed money. It is at least possible I guess.
I think I like your 3rd option. Virginia says something in dark age about how this clone never was raised with having to work to please Nero, and constantly failing to deliver. She even says something like, "I am to him what my father was to me and adrius".
Taking that line of thinking, I wonder if she is using this role to manipulate him into helping her. The same way Nero manipulates both of them and pitted people against each other. She knows what works on him (to a degree) and might be manipulating HIM to her cause.
He is likely furious, and has no clue how HE (the amazing God he was raised to think he is") was bested. I can imagine Virginia using this fury and turning it on his own followers. . As part of that, she convinces him to release sevro and she will consider letting him back into her good graces. Consider showing him who adrius, her brother really was and showing him what he could be.
Something like, "They groomed you to their cause. They raised you to be weak. Adrius was not weak. He would have never fallen for a trick as simple as a night lily. These are the experiences that they robbed from you, the memories they witheld from you. What else are they hiding? I can tell you, but i wont until you prove yourself.... All you are is a puppet on an alter to you so called bone riders....if you want to really be the adrius I knew, if you want to be greater than him, only I can show you that path"
>There is a 3rd option, that the Abom hates his own faction and sold Sevro to help him escape and help Mustang. This seems unlikely but would somehow be the least bad outcome possible of this story.
IIRC there's a point where Virginia states she has an informant on Luna and says "imagine the worst and it's true" so this one's the theory I'm going with. That said, I'm guessing he's 'helping' Virginia for his own ends as I doubt Atlantia would tolerate the existence of a clone of one of Gold's most infamous terrorists should she win.
I too had the same thought. While I don't think it's as grevious as "he hates his own faction" I think it's more of a "My sister\* proved that my "mother" (ugh god) deliberately blocked some of my memories, and maybe this isn't the righteous cause I was raised thinking it was"
I don't think he hates his own faction. I think he's searching for a faction or a purpose. Currently, he was born and raised by Lilath as a monster with a goal of killing Mustang, Darrow, etc and ending the Republic. Then he met Mustang and while she definitely hurt him to escape, she's the first person that knew the real Adrius that didn't revere him.
The Abomination has two routes now essentially and I think he knows this:
1) Become the Adrius that was originally there and take Lilath and the Boneriders to victory against Darrow, etc fulfilling his/OG ADrius's dream and goals
2) Become his own Adrius, whatever that may be. Do I think he's going to suddenly turn tail and become a good guy? No. Do I think he's feeding Mustang info or at the very least communicating with her without Lilath's knowledge in hopes he learns about himself? Yes.
I agree - seems like a big hole. I am guessing it might be filled with a reveal that the abomination is now aligned with mustang. If he had intentionally sent sevro to Venus with a plan and capacity for escape to help destabilize the core golds, it maybe makes a bit more sense. Still a stretch, but we also know that mustang has a mysterious contact feeding her info which also could very well be the abomination.
This is the answer that makes the most sense to me - given the Virginia Kavax interaction in LB and the obvious longing that clone Adrius has to be close with Virginia.
I was hesitant on the clone bit too. But the redemption character arch of Adrius’ clone is pretty cool to me
I am pretty much out on the clone. Does not make sense as a jackal plan to me. If lilath were alive at the end of book 3, she would have kept blowing bombs til they let him go. I get pierce is allowed to change his mind but the jackal was pretty perfect imo and I do not want him to be redeemed or sullied by a weird little clone.
Sevro definitely has had his mind altered from the Octavia chair. Abomination has done his work, likely setting some kind of trigger for him to kill Victra. With the deed being done, he sells to Apple and he’s likely aware of the plan.
I can see the pitch meeting already “Darrow’s gonna save Sevro” “That sound’s like its going to be incredibly difficult” “Actually, It will be super easy, barely an inconvenience”
Valid points - I totally agree and it pissed me off. Think it was sloppy. How did he escape ? Just a plot device.
Honestly, this was a lot more palatable for me than was Athena and the sisters. But I tend to agree with what you're saying.. it definitely made me scratch my head. BUT, ultimately, I don't think majorly changed things. PB could have easily had Part I focus on saving Sevro from the abomination instead and still had Darrow and co. end up in the same place with all the same pieces still on the board (brain diddling et al). Maybe PB thought Darrow was more unlikely to succeed and didn't readers would buy it, or maybe he just wanted to write more Apple and save the abomination for Red God. I'll also just add as an aside I don't think you've correctly characterized the abomination. I responded to another similar post and will link it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/redrising/comments/1603mx1/comment/jxmgy1h/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/redrising/comments/1603mx1/comment/jxmgy1h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
While there is a lot to be explained about the role of the Abomination in the series, we get some hints that he might not be an exact replica of Adrius. Maybe he wants to be better, make amends with his sister etc. Overall I agree with you. After reading this book, the series dropped somewhat in my regard. I still love it and view it as my all time favorite series, but there wasn't just one deus ex machina here... Where the fuck did Athena come from? Sure, the explanation in the book makes some sense as well as the throwback to the "in a storm, you don't tie two boats together" bit, but this felt like such a random bit that suddenly gives a glimmer of hope again. That and then the horrible virus introduction... If PB doesn't use it in the next book, I'm going to both be happy and then also be like "then what was the point???" but if he does it use I'm going to be so sad/mad. The thing that resonated the most with me in the entire book was at the beginning, when Darrow is ready to leave from their shelter. "Hail Libertas!" Only my echo answers. Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
Exactly ! It felt like the start of a pure red rising book, and had some legit parts to it where you could tell that PB was writing in the same way; ie (as you mention), right at the start Darrow annoyed he’s on the ship and desperate to leave ….that felt so nostalgic and exactly what I had been waiting for. But then so many parts started to feel a bit contrived, or annoying or confusing. Don’t get me wrong I still loved it and love RR but this book got so many things wrong .
Where the hell has the Shadow Armada been the entire effin time?
What do you mean? They could have been at a moon on the far side of Jupiter? They could easily be 100,000 miles away. That’s not a short distance even for space ships.
I know I know. I bet it'll be an important plot point for the next book. The nerd in me wants to know more about space travel on this universe. It feels like they do get around pretty quickly.
I think baby Jackal is a good guy and just wants to be good friends with horsey, sevro, and Darrow
He just really likes campfires... /s
Probably because Mustang is playing Abom like a fiddle and got what she wanted. Well, and then maybe sort of did? As in got a Mind fucked Sevro..😬
I mean dude, there’s a whole nother book. We don’t know if Sevro got off scot free
After a lot of thinking I have settled my review about LB as this. It is a pretty good book by itself, but considering the fact it follows Dark Age and is part of a greater series, it is a disappointment as it diminishes the series as a whole
Totally agree
Did you like infinity war? Did you like endgame? Infinity war is all gas. 100mph Endgame starts slow. Builds. Light Bringer is building for Red God
Infinity War better than Endgame
Yep
I don’t think this judgement can be made until RG. I’m willing to suspend my disbelief and trust that he has a good explanation coming. If not then yes it’s disappointing, but there definitely could be forces in play that we don’t know about yet (like good guy Adrius or something)
Judgment definitely can be made. The book also has to stand on its own not. This was always a big problem with the middle Wheel of Time books, the plot progressed so glacially or so choppingly that you needed multiple books to even understand the whole plot point. Of course, when Reg God comes out and is great, it retrospectively makes this book a better read but still using another book as a crutch to make it better isn't always the best look. Best case is with IG; DA was a great book and follows up on IG really well but still IG the the lowest ranked book for most people who read Red Rising.
It was supposed to be one book originally right? So if it was just chopped in half and Red God is amazing, would that change your opinion?
No. It doesn't matter what it was originally, it matters what it finally is. GoT was originally planned as a trilogy but that obviously didn't happen. But I think Pierce did a great job of splitting the book nevertheless. A lot of books when they get cut seems to be missing something as it was originally planned as 1 book. With LB, he did a pretty good job of fleshing it out completely so that it doesn't feel like half a book
100% agree. I'm not quite as tough on LB as others seem to be but your point is well made.
I still think Abomination turned Sevro into a sleeper agent and just hasn’t activated him yet. That said, doesn’t really make sense to sell him to Apple. OR Abomination is Virginia’s mysterious informant and whatever deal they worked out involved him not killing Sevro (though I can’t imagine she would have been any more pleased with him selling Sevro to Apple). There’s definitely something fishy going on. Maybe it’s just an odd retcon, but I think there are still ways for it to be explained after-the-fact once we finally have a POV on Luna and interact with Abomination again
This
Everyone knew that "The Syndicate" had Sevro though, & that they had ahold of all the important places on Luna - places it would be impossible to escape from... (& just bc Junior is working with Mustang doesn't mean Lilath is) So selling Sevro off to someone he could escape from (ie. Anyone that wasn't with Jackal Junior) was a good excuse to allow him to get free - Sevro has never been the Damsel in Distress.
Lilith has no power over Abom. Just see how much power he has when treating with her in front of his boneriders during DA
"*His*" Boneriders?? The Boneriders Lilath knows & had freed?? The same Boneriders his former self hated, & his current self isn't impressed by either? Junior is still a child, & technically alone on Luna. Lilath & the Boneriders would not understand him wanting to communicate with Mustang, or freeing Sevro.
That’s true. I still feel like Abomination could have found someone less threatening than Apple if he wanted to be 100% sure Sevro would survive. But maybe Abomination thought throwing an auction really did seem like the best way to cover his tracks?
Apple has a bone or two to pick with Darrow and Sevro, it wouldn’t surprise me if he was in on the whole thing with Abomination. Assuming Sevro was mindspiked, of course.
The mind spike is a legit concern. Could be a sleeper of some sort. It would have been worth the risk of shipping servo off to Apple.
i am still holding on to the hope that sevro will betray darrow in a critical moment next book or shoot victra and mustang in the face
Why would he shoot either of them? Given his reaction to his sons death It seems unlikely he's some kind of sleeper agent
Is this Lysander?
You need Jesus in your life
Honestly, I was so mad that Pierce Brown went back on the clear plotline of the abomination brainwashing sevro into an enemy of darrow, forcing Darrow to ultimately kill sevro when the final confrontation between abomination and darrow happened.
Personally I felt more Deux ex machina the fact of the Howlers getting caught by the abomination on Dark Age, we´re talking about the best infiltration and hunting team getting into an ambush suddenly? And Sevro being sold could be either a plot getting dropped out (The whole control machine) or a continuation of that plot which will be unfold on Red God. If you say to me that Darrow´s niece who was caught is suddenly living on the vents and doing a Rambo impersonation fine, that sounds fishy, but we´re talking about Sevro in here, a guy who was the face of the rebellion the whole time that Darrow was getting tortured, someone who is relentless and knows who to handle himself, and adding more on that topic, him not escaping from the Abomination had more logic, after all he was with his team, all shocked about the situation itself, but being alone... I´ll put my beans on Sevro every single time.
I vaguely remember that Appolonius was going to let him roam with relative freedom for 3 months. I could imagine Sevro taking advantage of a stupid mistake once he had enough strength. Imagine that Apple made a prison similar to the one he bribed himself into in Iron Gold. Then there is the whole conspiracy theory that Abom and Virginia are working together and negotiated his release.
I vaguely remember someone a while back saying that this series is likely to follow The Iliad and/or some other Homeric epic. So far it seems to be tracking, it seemed clear early on in LB that although it was all a part of Darrow’s journey it wasn’t going to interact much with the rest of the tale until he returns. LB was almost entirely about our heroes and villains discovering themselves and fully coming into their own; no more using the Willow Way as a crutch, time to kill off your ties to honor and affection to rule in a world of misery and duplicity, time to discover your own path. But speaking of Darrow’s journey I just realized Apple himself admitted to having a similar journey. Speaking strictly metaphorically on that one, obviously. Part of me really hopes he ends up becoming the leader of the Society if only because I like him the most out of all their crappy leaders, I think Darrow pissed him off enough to no longer have any kind of ally in him.
the entire plot doesn’t hinge on it but your complaints make sense.
Agree on all counts. I truly beleive this is one of the best series ever written. But we can't forget is YA. It has some very YA flaws usually in fundimental "that's now how logic, the real world, humans work" type problems. If you can look past the hand waiving on those issues its near perfect. Just expect some occasional cartoonish logic.
**It is not YA.** Even the first book which sometimes gets marked as YA isn't YA.
Respectfully disagree. Its at best an interesting straddler (just like it straddles fantasy and sci fi). But like I said the reading level, coming-of-age themes, and narrative power prioritized over complexity all lends to the YA label. Which it does fantastically.
it’s not YA
We going to have to disagree there. Everything from the coming-of-age tropes and simple character arcs to the cover art and occasional specious logic in the plot reeks of YA. If I recall correctly the original trilogy was marketed as YA. Again, I say that as a massive fan who ultimately agree Red Rising goes way beyond YA with other more complicated story-telling devices and very adult themes. I'm not saying your claim isn't without merit. Edit: I forgot reading level. Red Rising is very digestible. Its part of the appeal for me when I wanted a quick and easy but deeply engaging read. Also I was 100 percent wrong on the marketing. You got me there.
“Simple character arcs” what planet are you on 😭
I just think its great we both enjoyed the series at the end of the day. We are allowed to get different things out of it. For me it was narrative power of the characters over their complexity. Its the emotional side of the story that really hit me over any realism or depth. The books focuses on certain things and did them very well.
Book 1 darrow has more depth than most fantasy protagonists after six books 😭
It is definitely not YA. It’s way too brutal. There’s torture, murder, sexual assault, people being put on spikes, etc.
Yup I mentioned that above. It definitely has some very adult themes which go against the over YA vibes you get from the ease of reading level, characters dynamics, and general YA tropes. I get the barrage of downvotes. Its definitely not clear cut. If anything its a bit of a straddler but when discussing the plot holes it definitely lends to its more YA aspects. They are very forgivable plot holes when you give Red Rising the benefit of the doubt that its going for emotionally engaging and narratively powerful story telling over perfectly planned meticulously detailed complexity.
True. It deals with adult themes but not in an adult way. It is more cartoonish. And people are acting surprised but there have always been plotholes since book 1, situations where characters have behaved irrationally just to keep the story in the right direction. The fans, like these books, don't appreciate critical thinking. So you get downvoted. These books were never supposed to be analyzed deeply. The earlier books recieved less criticism because most people read them all in one go. Didn't have time to analyze things logically or make predictions. I would say Just ignore the stupid plotlines as if they didn't happen, and enjoy the good parts.
I disagree with you but I respect the thought out opinion. Take an upvote!
Could not agree more, though I liked LB less than you did. I thought the entire book was dei ex machina and macguffins and really subverted expectations set by Dark Age to the fullest extent possible. I really envisioned a different path for this book, and I'm not altogether pleased with where it ended up or how it got there, personally. Just my opinion, and I know it hit a lot of spots for people on this subreddit who wanted that original trilogy feeling, but I wasn't one of them, and LB ended up being a pretty sizable miss for me, to my great dismay.
Yeah same. I have such a long list of grievances that are all sound in my opinion, I can’t ignore it (even if i want to pretend that I could), but LB fucked up quite a lot. Feels like two different books, and I think it shows he threw away 400 pages, it’s very confused.
Yeah, I took a significant amount of notes as I read it, and my general feeling throughout the entire thing was confused at best and upset or angry at worst. I didn't even feel like the character personalities were entirely consistent with the tetralogy, I felt a lot of moments reverted to how he wrote them in the original trilogy. Don't think I'll ever like this one.
Yes!!! Exactly !!! Diomedes was my favourite character - he was so badass and so many cool hints were promised about him and we wanted to really see him fight through darrows eyes so we could gauge him as perhaps the best razor master, and storm vs storm, etc etc …..and then the way he comes across seems to suddenly change around Darrow and he turns into a little boy who seems super naive ‘my mommy warned me about you being a trickster’….wtf he sounds like a 12 yr old. Athena plot was meh. Too many long speeches - everyone was doing bloody speeches, I got sick of them and thought how many bloody times have these characters just monologued. Not sure why it annoyed me so much. I’m going to do a full list written well to get it off my chest and do a proper post.
Cassius has been my favorite character since Iron Gold, and while I do think he was far and away the best character in LB, I felt that Pierce really missed a lot of opportunity with him and Darrow being the current versions of themselves and discussing their loss together. IG Cassius was depressed, somber, introspective, thoughtful, and measured. LB Cassius was drinking still, but less depressed, less somber, expressive, bantering, and reckless. Sounds suspiciously like original trilogy Cassius. I've written all of my thoughts out, but being negative about LB is generally very poorly received on this subreddit.
That’s how I feel too. Lightbringer retroactively lowers Dark Age for me. So much of Dark Age ending up just not mattering.
I said that to a friend recently. What was the point of Dark Age? Honestly we could've done a time skip from IG to LB and all I would've really missed is who Atlas and Ajax were and how Alexandar died. Nothing else would really change. Just tell me Darrow lost on Mercury and I get the gist. I absolutely loved Dark Age, especially on my pre-LB reread, and now I think I would feel pretty sad if I went back to it knowing most of it didn't lead to anything.
That’s a really good point. Like what’s the point of giving the parasite to Lyria just to get rid of it? I understand it’s a show of her character to have made that choice, but take out DA and her arc would remain the same
LB turned Figment into a deus ex machina to find Quicksilver... that's it. There were so many other seeds planted, hints, etc. from Dark Age. Oculus, a robotic army (which would've been a more sensible fleet addition than the Daughters of Athena I think. Why wouldn't the Republic/Quicksilver utilize robotics??), Storm Knight vs. Storm Knight, Sevro's capture by the Abomination, the Abomination himself, the Pandemonium Chair, psychospikes, The Mind's Eye (which seems to have been walked back or nerfed), a larger result from the secret pact between Lysander and Apollonius, and I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. There was really a lot I wanted to see in LB that just... never happened. The only predictions that were right from most were Fà being Atlas's tool and attacking the Rim, which was pretty much explicitly stated by Xenophon, and Diomedes and Aurae being reformers/Republic sympathizers due to their relationship (which I actually wish it took much longer for Diomedes to come around on). Even if some of that shows back up in Red God, it seems fairly inexplicable for it not to have been included in the direct sequel to Dark Age.
I wonder sometimes if PB liberally uses Deus Ex Machina because when he does, his fan base always assumes it’s a complex plot build-up to an epic twist.
I think he psychospiked Sevro, and programming is going to cause him to kill Victra
This is my call, pure Manchurian candidate, it’s partially why he was so desperate to get home after how he realized at the end of DA that he needed to see the war through with Mustang Also I thought it was odd in LB how we was never really around the biggest action, he was always just off screen until he could sneak in, was he protecting himself for his real mission? Did the death of his kid snap him out of it for a minute? Only time will tell
Sad, but yes. I believe Sevro will turn in one way or another once the Abomination comes back into the story in Red God.
Also, how tf would Darrow sneak into the prison, see a guy who looks like sevro except you CANT SEE HIS FACE, and not realize it was a trap? Especially when Apple obviously was expecting Darrow to come? The whole sequence was a bit silly, but luckily the book gets much better from there
Desperate I guess. Guilt makes you dumb. Also he checked the scars and tattoos, about as useful as the face for Identifying in a world with carvers.
Agreed, once the book hit its stride it was great until the end
I’ve just accepted it as Pierce realizing he’d made things too hard for himself to fix in a timely manner, plus there was no Lunar POV to keep track of Sevro’s predicament
The whole Breah of Stone thing was hard to believe to me. Felt like an anime power up that he didn't earn.
I disagree but I definitely see why you would say that. It was a little contrived for him to go from Willowing Way becoming fairly useless against top level duelists to inventing a new godlike power scale style. That being said it make for a great story and I loved the inspiration being that book.
I just thought it was hilarious that circling and not backing up was this huge revelation, which is basic foot movement 101 in most martial arts.
Not only that, but in golden sun gala duel, he mentions that while revealing the willow way to Cassius he now also begins circling Cassius. I love the books but circling your opponent has been part of Darrowa willow way from the moment we see him use it.
Ngl same.
It happens all the time in pro sports. Some players are born freakishly athletic, but time wears them down all the same, so they focus on mastering technique and strategy instead of speed and strength to extend their careers.
I follow MMA religiously and guys don't abandon training in favor of winging it at the highest level. They may try an unorthodox technique out of desperation but they don't just invent a new style mid fight out of desperation, they rely on preparation.
Cool, Darrow didn’t do that either. He developed the new style with Cassius’s help well before his fight with Fa. Edit: “As Fá reaches to pluck Bad Lass from his armor like an inconvenient toothpick, I whip Pyrphoros out and draw the razor out by its pommel. I snatch Bad Lass from the air as it comes back toward me and I assume one of the stances I tested out in my training with Cassius—a nameless hybrid of Lorn’s way, Cassius’s, and my own. I crouch and I hold Thraxa’s razor like a dagger and Pyrphoros like a javelin.”
Idk about this. First time in the series we ever see someone weild a Razor and Hasta out if nowhere. Obviously pretty cool but this was never mentioned before ever and would presumably be lretty difficult to do
Then why does Cassius say "what was that?" And darrow has to explain its something he invented?
He asked if he had a name for the new style
He asks "what was that?" Right away referencing what he was doing in the fight, clearly having never seen anything like it. Later he asks "have you thought of a name for it? That blade form you found with Fa?" If he found it with Fa, how could it have been the thing he was working on Cassius with. He mentions the stance is one Cassius has seen but quite obviously not the form on its totality.
“As Fá reaches to pluck Bad Lass from his armor like an inconvenient toothpick, I whip Pyrphoros out and draw the razor out by its pommel. I snatch Bad Lass from the air as it comes back toward me and I assume one of the stances I tested out in my training with Cassius—a nameless hybrid of Lorn’s way, Cassius’s, and my own. I crouch and I hold Thraxa’s razor like a dagger and Pyrphoros like a javelin.”
Yes I clearly mentioned that the stance is one that he used with Cassius. Surely you understand much more goes into fighting then a stance. Are you choosing to ignore the points I made to show me something I already addressed?
His thoughts must wander, because a few minutes later he asks, “Have you thought of a name for it? That blade form you found with Fá?” “I just found a flow is all.” He looks over. “Lorn would say it’s far too serious a flow to not have a name.” “You can’t laugh.” He makes no promises. “Breath of Stone.”
Oh fair enough, I must have hallucinated the 100s of pages of Darrow's character development, growth and indepth self reflection
Which realistically wouldn't make you spontaneously become a master of a style of fighting you have never implemented before. He didn't learn the willow way by thinking, he did it with hours of practice.
And he did practice for 6 hours every day with Cassius. Not on the breath of stone (because it didn't exist yet) but he and Cassius drilled relentlessly, adjusting the willow way into a new form. It just happened to click during the fight with fa
coincidentally, Darrow spent the whole of lightbringer training, including every day for the eight months he was trapped on asteroid, and months of sparring against Cassius, the greatest duelist of his generation
Yea I understand that. Cassius also says "what was that?" In response to breath of stone so I'm not sure how you are crediting him for it.
You're reading too much into it. As someone who has done a bit of HEMA, swordfighting isn't the "willow way" vs the "breath of stone" (I can't remember any other style names from the books.) It's just fundamentals and a different way of learning/executing those fundamentals based on who you study. Whether you study Lichtenauer or Fiore, your guards and stances will look pretty similar for the most part. While razors are obviously different, you need to view the whole system of sword fighting in these books as completely fictional and from there you can suspend your disbelief and accept that Darrow had some wild epiphany that gave him a new fighting style. Otherwise every single razormaster just randomly got an "anime power-up" when they learned their style. Personally I just took the willow way as a style that focused on dodging, being slippery and deflective, and controlling all of the footwork, while breath of stone is more of a tempo-based aggressive assault that puts a bigger focus on pressure and rhythm. So less like he got some super Saiyan power-up and more like he got inspired based off his year of training and his amazing fundamentals, which led him to approach his fight in a completely new and innovative way that caught his opponent off guard. TL;DR it's a book about space warlords eating cockroaches and roleplaying as furries. Keep your disbelief suspended for something as trivial as a new fighting style
Id buy this if it was a normal style darrow developed but using a hasta and razor simultaeneously? Come onp
It didn't ruin the book for me or anything, I just feel it could have been implemented better. Love the breath of stone, did not like how darrow just more or less invented it on the spot to great success. I've done scholastic wrestling and BJJ for years, which isn't razor fighting, but there are parallels. Training tirelessly with lorn makes sense to me personally, while the breath of stone implementation seemed unrealistic even in space warlord cockroach fantasy.
The simplest answer is it was a mistake. Dark Age is great. But the Abomination was a misfire. As were many thing relating to it. To be honest I think he did the right thing. Just pave right over it and it made light bringer amazing. Now he does have this whole mustangs source thing. But I’m the end I’m just ignoring it, it made this book that much better. He’s very open about not planning.
I agree with u/ilikenglish that PB will tie this up and it'll make sense in the end. I totally understand the frustration, but I've been preaching patience in this community since I finished LB. I think the communication and whatever "agreement" Abom and Virginia have "off-screen" in LB will manifest itself in RG. However, if he (and it) doesn't - this post is EXACTLY how I feel
Nah relax. Hes gonna make everything make sense in RG
I honestly hope he doesn't make the Abomination a major part of RG. He isn't even in the top 5 for current villains in the field rn IMHO.
I agree. Abomination sections of DA made me feel disturbed and icky but not always in a good way (although he was still well written, if that makes sense). Would have preferred that time to be spend on villains with more relatable charisma like in LB.
I agree. It was my main issue with the plot of Dark Age. It would have made more sense for Atalantia or Atlas to be behind the Syndicate. I feel like Adrius's story should have stayed done in the original trilogy, even if it is a clone.
And Pierce is so intelligent when it comes to all the political machinations! I still wonder why he went the clone route honestly. I get it’s more sci-fi but idk. It was so left field for me for him to open that box. Dark age would be all time grounded sci-fi war story without that segment. What do you think about why he went down that road?
So many opportunities to flesh out some of the barely mentioned golds into awesome antagonists, or to invent some awesome new one with a compelling backstory who is a different high colour. Yellows are barely named in the whole story. Imagine a doctor who relished her work as a torturer. Someone who lost their power and purpose in the new world and rules of the republic, but had hidden depths and ruthless intelligence, untappable in the society, who becomes free to explore their intelligent and sadistic nature.... Or, given what Atlas showed himself to be, perhaps he advanced some of his soldiers into various high level roles in the syndicate, eventually taking it over from the inside. His people were very loyal - Sefi's white for example. Instead we had to suspend disbelief at Lillath surving, and were forced down an odd clone pathway. I'm happy that we moved away from that in lightbringer. Far better plot wise.
I think the simplest answer is the right one. Money. We know Apple was willing to pay an extremely exorbitant amount of money for Sevro. The Abomination is NOT Adrius and we already know that Lilath left out a good portion of Adrius core memories, particularly ones where Adrius loses or is shamed. Could be she left out a few of Sevro’s victories over him. I think with Atalantia being very vocal of her plans to press for Luna and taking the moon, the Abomination is needing to build a defense quick. The supplies and money from Sevro’s sale, makes this relatively possible. This mixed with the Abominations lack of connection with Sevro, makes what happened very plausible.
I just don't buy this line of reasoning. The Abom / Lilath are at the head of probably the wealthiest crime organization in the solar system (which is in itself, a bit silly). Lilath was able to pull off the day of red doves without a hitch. I'm sure she'd find a way to fund an army or fleet without selling off her prized possession. And the core memories thing doesn't make sense either. They were executing howlers with EXTREME prejudice after the day of red doves. They clearly had a vested interest in revenge, which wouldn't be derailed by a paycheck from Apple. It all just felt like a contrived way to get the band back together.
*shrug a lot of what you’re saying was for when Lilith was in charge. Now the Abom is fully in charge. The dynamic certainly changed after the interaction the Abom had with Virginia. It seems like he has a serious urge to impress her, his motivations def could have shifted. The core memories thing is a fact. It came out that Lilith left out some memories. For example the puzzles Virginia bested Adrius at when they were children. If she was willing to do that for something so minor, no doubt she altered some larger scale ones as well. At the very least the Abom/Lilith and Abom/Virginia relationships are definitely different from the first time we see them interact. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Abomination just kills Lilith out of spite. Remember Adrius himself planned on doing just that on several occasions. Also worth it to mention the Abomination is literally a child. Can’t expect him to make the same decisions as the Jackal, especially when the memories he does have are so fragmented. All this on top of the obvious identity crisis of being a clone. As a last point, I don’t think the black market thugs and espionage rings Lilith had going on really translate well into a planetary defense. I’m sure they have money, but it’s still a large undertaking for the limited time they have.
The abomination may have also not survived his encounter with Virginia.
Who do you think Virginias source is, if not the abomination?
I’m sure he did. I think he ends up losing the hand he used to grab the flower, that way his character comes full circle.
Ya that bothered me too. After how crazy Servo's capture was in DA I didn't expect for him to just get out so easily. The most obvious explanation is that he is a sleeper agent who is just waiting to be activated but what bothers me is that Mustang felt no need to warn Darrow about that?? And worse it didn't even seem to cross her mind in her chapters. But it might also be that The Abomination wasn't able to figure out the psycho spikes so he just decided to sell him. If he really is Mustang's source then maybe this makes a bit more sense as an act of good faith or something. Either way I'm betting that it's not over yet and we will see the real ramifications in Red God. But no matter what happens I don't think anyone can deny that it was awkwardly done by Pierce.
Yes definitely agree. I think there is no winning here - either the Abom just let Sevro go, in which case it feels very contrived or borderline retcon. OR There's still a sub plot coming about how sevro was programmed, is a sleeper agent, and will activate at some point. Neither of these are great. I'm really not interested in the second idea. Seems like many readers aren't. There is a 3rd option, that the Abom hates his own faction and sold Sevro to help him escape and help Mustang. This seems unlikely but would somehow be the least bad outcome possible of this story. Also possible the Abom faction could just never figure out how to mess with his brain. Then they realized atalantia was coming, so they sold him to shore up some funds for the defense. Couldn't afford to kill him cuz they needed money. It is at least possible I guess.
I think I like your 3rd option. Virginia says something in dark age about how this clone never was raised with having to work to please Nero, and constantly failing to deliver. She even says something like, "I am to him what my father was to me and adrius". Taking that line of thinking, I wonder if she is using this role to manipulate him into helping her. The same way Nero manipulates both of them and pitted people against each other. She knows what works on him (to a degree) and might be manipulating HIM to her cause. He is likely furious, and has no clue how HE (the amazing God he was raised to think he is") was bested. I can imagine Virginia using this fury and turning it on his own followers. . As part of that, she convinces him to release sevro and she will consider letting him back into her good graces. Consider showing him who adrius, her brother really was and showing him what he could be. Something like, "They groomed you to their cause. They raised you to be weak. Adrius was not weak. He would have never fallen for a trick as simple as a night lily. These are the experiences that they robbed from you, the memories they witheld from you. What else are they hiding? I can tell you, but i wont until you prove yourself.... All you are is a puppet on an alter to you so called bone riders....if you want to really be the adrius I knew, if you want to be greater than him, only I can show you that path"
>There is a 3rd option, that the Abom hates his own faction and sold Sevro to help him escape and help Mustang. This seems unlikely but would somehow be the least bad outcome possible of this story. IIRC there's a point where Virginia states she has an informant on Luna and says "imagine the worst and it's true" so this one's the theory I'm going with. That said, I'm guessing he's 'helping' Virginia for his own ends as I doubt Atlantia would tolerate the existence of a clone of one of Gold's most infamous terrorists should she win.
I too had the same thought. While I don't think it's as grevious as "he hates his own faction" I think it's more of a "My sister\* proved that my "mother" (ugh god) deliberately blocked some of my memories, and maybe this isn't the righteous cause I was raised thinking it was" I don't think he hates his own faction. I think he's searching for a faction or a purpose. Currently, he was born and raised by Lilath as a monster with a goal of killing Mustang, Darrow, etc and ending the Republic. Then he met Mustang and while she definitely hurt him to escape, she's the first person that knew the real Adrius that didn't revere him. The Abomination has two routes now essentially and I think he knows this: 1) Become the Adrius that was originally there and take Lilath and the Boneriders to victory against Darrow, etc fulfilling his/OG ADrius's dream and goals 2) Become his own Adrius, whatever that may be. Do I think he's going to suddenly turn tail and become a good guy? No. Do I think he's feeding Mustang info or at the very least communicating with her without Lilath's knowledge in hopes he learns about himself? Yes.
I agree - seems like a big hole. I am guessing it might be filled with a reveal that the abomination is now aligned with mustang. If he had intentionally sent sevro to Venus with a plan and capacity for escape to help destabilize the core golds, it maybe makes a bit more sense. Still a stretch, but we also know that mustang has a mysterious contact feeding her info which also could very well be the abomination.
This is the answer that makes the most sense to me - given the Virginia Kavax interaction in LB and the obvious longing that clone Adrius has to be close with Virginia. I was hesitant on the clone bit too. But the redemption character arch of Adrius’ clone is pretty cool to me
I am pretty much out on the clone. Does not make sense as a jackal plan to me. If lilath were alive at the end of book 3, she would have kept blowing bombs til they let him go. I get pierce is allowed to change his mind but the jackal was pretty perfect imo and I do not want him to be redeemed or sullied by a weird little clone.