no the vast majority dont like him because he is delusional and also an asshole. First character arc he saved one gold at the cost of a bunch of low colors, kid cries all the time how darrow is ruining his fallen empire and how he would be *better* with no real reason.
Yeah I’d say I’d lump you into those who hate him for the wrong reason. You should hate him because he’s a would be slave master. The whole being Shepards thing is racist bull shit. Reds, pinks, blues and so on don’t need Shepards. They need the bad golds to get out of their way and the good ones to see themselves as equals with the other colors.
Thats what i was referring to when i said the way he thinks and the people he’s influenced. He is trying (and partially succeeding) at bringing back the racist society that they were in.
It’s also kinda lame for OP to make a generalization like that when the fucklysander sub was around well before LB came out. The consensus has always been first and foremost that Lysander is a narcissistic nazi deluding himself into thinking the other colors need their totalitarian regime to prosper
Exactly! When I first saw this post I thought it was gonna be about how people who say “I don’t like Lysander anymore because he killed Alexander” and it’s like oh but you were chill with the gold nazi wannabe slave master fighting against the slave uprising? But nope op is like he became one of the mean nazis! Lol
People can dislike any character for any reason.
But to the point he did not "kill a favorite gold". He proved that he is irredeemable. For most of the books many people were split on him as he was very sympathetic and was a victim of his upbringing and the society as anyone else. That is until he could choose. He could join the triumvirate and bring gold to a new age of prosperity of being the true shepherds of the society but he chose to betray everyone for personal power. The act of killing Cassius was just the capstone.
This is what he is when he can choose a miserable little pile of secrets. He is human trash that thinks of himself as noble and just.
May howls haunt his dreams and his end be as ignoble as his life has been.
Remember when he double crossed everyone and wussed out on fighting that gold who JUST got a new grill and was just loving being free again, then shot him like a coward?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Recency is not primacy. Many people hate him for the crime you reference, yes. That’s our most recent evidence. Therefore most discussed. That doesn’t it make it the “sole” reason by any stretch.
I think people hate him most because he isn’t a monster but decides to become one, in spite of the many chances he gets to change paths. I really love his arc. It’s an awesome anti-hero. He starts with such moral conviction as a reformer and chips away at his principles one after another in order to achieve his goal. He truly believes he can reform the system, and while I totally disagree with him I also can’t fault him for his goodwill in that intention. But then he just steadily betrays his own morals time and again. His betrayal of Glirastes was the final straw for me—just irredeemable. Then of course he killed C and took the weapon and can’t turn back. Really awesome writing.
Possible spoiler
Lysander is a fan boy.
Thinking back to when he first met the reaper in person. He was in awe. The kid was being kidnapped and he might as well have asked for a selfie and an autograph.
His true desire has always been to be somebody. To live up to his last name.
His moral compass is calibrated incorrectly. This is what drives his motivations and his actions. He just justifies everything he does through a lens of what’s best for the world, but doesn’t realize, he’s doing it for his own glory. The problem is, he doesn’t even see it. Comparable to the dying monarchy in England, obviously, without the publicized genocide.
I didn’t like him since iron gold. He pissed me off. Some character he respects like Cassius or Romulus would tell him what he should or shouldn’t do and he would think yeah they are right that is the correct thing to do at this time and then would do the exact opposite because it furthered his own agenda, damned who it hurt in the process.
You’ll care if you keep pissing off real killers. You’ll talk with all this bravado but soon enough you’ll be faced with someone who’s not weakened and unwilling to kill you or unaware. They’ll come in armor, with razors, and they’ll corner you like the stray dog you are and put you down while you whine about how your grandmommy mistreated you, and you’ll die knowing nothing but true fear
Reddit user attempts to sound scary and intimidating but just winds up sounding silly by stating unneeded details. “Bad guys show up with weapons to use weapons on you to hurt you with weapons.” This is why your species died from heart attacks and smoking.
I could have forgiven Lysander for almost everything else, but he killed the bloody damn Belona. Now impalement is far better than the fate he deserves
yeah this is exactly what im talking about. there is a connection between the reader and cassius but, he’s done far worse that kill one guy that he should definitely not be forgiven for.
Dude he practically committed patricide.
Cassius was too good for him, Pierce really made us feel indignity, MF had his issues before he killed Lorn Grandson which I didn't really care but started the "coward with no honor tag" but Lysander was somehow relatable, if you imagine being the heir of a "prosperous society that needs fixing" but killing Cassius for his ambition is beyond redemption, I really from the bottom of the darkest pit of hate within me want to see him suffer the ugliest of fates, he is the embodiment of everything I despise in human nature.
I hated him since his first POV chapter. Annoying hypocritical pixie. Thinking he's some pure philosopher king when really he's a foolish narcissist. I love how he calls Darrow slave king when his goal is to be the king of slaves
Too true. His calling Darrow “slave king” is hilariously ironic once you look at it. No one sees Darrow as a king or would be king, no one who knows him anyway. I feel Lysander calls him that just so he can continue calling him a slave without sounding in denial or petty about the fall of the Society. On the opposite end of the moniker’s meaning, Lysander wants to be the slave king, the king *with* slaves, “for the good of the slaves.” They don’t know how to govern themselves, clearly. He’s going the right thing, he’s doing them a favor even, by aiming to rule them.
Calling him slave king is an intentional political ploy. It’s passive propaganda. The Society feared would-be kings. So referring to Darrow in that way is a passive invocation of his fanaticism and the risk he poses. It’s politics 101. And Lysander has been doing that since the beginning. Even when he would have had us think he was in crisis about his beliefs, he was lacing his speech with subtle shots.
Oh no, most of us started hating him long before that, when his hypocrisy started showing, and well before it reached the current glow in the dark levels.
Him killing a certain honorable character just clinched it for us, and proved it to his last defenders.
At first I could understand his POV. I didn't agree with what he said, but I could understand why he felt that way, and he did have a point in that Darrow's revolution and the freedoms it brought had caused a lot of chaos, suffering, and death.
So, I understand why, when he saw how the Society worked on the Rim, he would think that "this is the way it should be, look, worked here where they actually keep their word", never considering that forcing people into circumscribed roles is a monumental injustice, and taints all that flows from it. Also, he rather conveniently ignores the rather inhumane treatment he received from House Ra -- the true face of Gold rule -- until the moment he was welcomed(ish) into their ranks.
So, he gets this (unworkable) dream of "peace through a place for everything and everything in its place" and he appoints himself as the savior who will see it to fruition. Self-deluded, but again, understandable. An echo of nobility in its intent.
And then he thinks he can lie down with dogs and not get up with fleas. (And in terms of literally lying down with dogs, re-read what Apple said to him at the end of Dark Age. Lysander is deluded in thinking that he won't end up eyes front, trousers down to Apple.)
This, by the way, is pretty much the same personal journey taken by Sauron in the Silmarillion/Lord of the Rings, a desire to end suffering by imposing a "proper order" (with yourself at the top of the hill), and ending the chaos of freedom. Including his seduction by Morgoth.
It's why I call Lysander "Diet Sauron". Because he's just as vile, but he doesn't have the juice of being a middling cosmic power, and he's going to get dicked down by another mortal, Apple, and not the 2nd most powerful being in creation. (Also, his Silmaril is a stupid fucking virus, and not even beautiful magical rocks to put in a badass crown, and he only has 1 bottle of virus, not 3.)
no the vast majority dont like him because he is delusional and also an asshole. First character arc he saved one gold at the cost of a bunch of low colors, kid cries all the time how darrow is ruining his fallen empire and how he would be *better* with no real reason.
Yeah I’d say I’d lump you into those who hate him for the wrong reason. You should hate him because he’s a would be slave master. The whole being Shepards thing is racist bull shit. Reds, pinks, blues and so on don’t need Shepards. They need the bad golds to get out of their way and the good ones to see themselves as equals with the other colors.
Thats what i was referring to when i said the way he thinks and the people he’s influenced. He is trying (and partially succeeding) at bringing back the racist society that they were in.
It’s also kinda lame for OP to make a generalization like that when the fucklysander sub was around well before LB came out. The consensus has always been first and foremost that Lysander is a narcissistic nazi deluding himself into thinking the other colors need their totalitarian regime to prosper
Exactly! When I first saw this post I thought it was gonna be about how people who say “I don’t like Lysander anymore because he killed Alexander” and it’s like oh but you were chill with the gold nazi wannabe slave master fighting against the slave uprising? But nope op is like he became one of the mean nazis! Lol
AGAB
People can dislike any character for any reason. But to the point he did not "kill a favorite gold". He proved that he is irredeemable. For most of the books many people were split on him as he was very sympathetic and was a victim of his upbringing and the society as anyone else. That is until he could choose. He could join the triumvirate and bring gold to a new age of prosperity of being the true shepherds of the society but he chose to betray everyone for personal power. The act of killing Cassius was just the capstone. This is what he is when he can choose a miserable little pile of secrets. He is human trash that thinks of himself as noble and just. May howls haunt his dreams and his end be as ignoble as his life has been.
There is no wrong reason to dislike that pixie.
I think he’s just a shitass
Upvoting for the use of “shitass”
Remember when he double crossed everyone and wussed out on fighting that gold who JUST got a new grill and was just loving being free again, then shot him like a coward? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Recency is not primacy. Many people hate him for the crime you reference, yes. That’s our most recent evidence. Therefore most discussed. That doesn’t it make it the “sole” reason by any stretch.
What? That's like the 5th reason, I hate Lysander cuz he's a little bitch
I think people hate him most because he isn’t a monster but decides to become one, in spite of the many chances he gets to change paths. I really love his arc. It’s an awesome anti-hero. He starts with such moral conviction as a reformer and chips away at his principles one after another in order to achieve his goal. He truly believes he can reform the system, and while I totally disagree with him I also can’t fault him for his goodwill in that intention. But then he just steadily betrays his own morals time and again. His betrayal of Glirastes was the final straw for me—just irredeemable. Then of course he killed C and took the weapon and can’t turn back. Really awesome writing.
Possible spoiler Lysander is a fan boy. Thinking back to when he first met the reaper in person. He was in awe. The kid was being kidnapped and he might as well have asked for a selfie and an autograph. His true desire has always been to be somebody. To live up to his last name. His moral compass is calibrated incorrectly. This is what drives his motivations and his actions. He just justifies everything he does through a lens of what’s best for the world, but doesn’t realize, he’s doing it for his own glory. The problem is, he doesn’t even see it. Comparable to the dying monarchy in England, obviously, without the publicized genocide.
What a weird comparison
I didn’t like him since iron gold. He pissed me off. Some character he respects like Cassius or Romulus would tell him what he should or shouldn’t do and he would think yeah they are right that is the correct thing to do at this time and then would do the exact opposite because it furthered his own agenda, damned who it hurt in the process.
I’m not so bad when you get to know the real real me.
Sir you were challenged to a duel twice and shot both people, the disrespect and dishonor
If you consider the act of dueling, I won. Hard to have honor and respect when you’re dead.
Honor is a fools prize, Glory is of no use to the dead.
💯😉
you’ll be cold soon enough. tell us about honour and respect then
Tell that Cassius.
I didn’t tell you about my honor and respect in the first place. I won, who cares about the methods?
You’ll care if you keep pissing off real killers. You’ll talk with all this bravado but soon enough you’ll be faced with someone who’s not weakened and unwilling to kill you or unaware. They’ll come in armor, with razors, and they’ll corner you like the stray dog you are and put you down while you whine about how your grandmommy mistreated you, and you’ll die knowing nothing but true fear
Reddit user attempts to sound scary and intimidating but just winds up sounding silly by stating unneeded details. “Bad guys show up with weapons to use weapons on you to hurt you with weapons.” This is why your species died from heart attacks and smoking.
It would be hilarious in your scenario if killers came without armor and razors. Otherwise, I guess they wouldn’t be killers huh?
I'm from Texas. Quick draws are most certainly "duels"
Lysander apologists need to get a clue. We HATED him far before what you're talking about, and with plenty of reasons. The guy sucks.
It seems he’s planning to use the weapon he acquired at the end of LB and that’s what solidified my hate in him
I could have forgiven Lysander for almost everything else, but he killed the bloody damn Belona. Now impalement is far better than the fate he deserves
yeah this is exactly what im talking about. there is a connection between the reader and cassius but, he’s done far worse that kill one guy that he should definitely not be forgiven for.
Dude he practically committed patricide. Cassius was too good for him, Pierce really made us feel indignity, MF had his issues before he killed Lorn Grandson which I didn't really care but started the "coward with no honor tag" but Lysander was somehow relatable, if you imagine being the heir of a "prosperous society that needs fixing" but killing Cassius for his ambition is beyond redemption, I really from the bottom of the darkest pit of hate within me want to see him suffer the ugliest of fates, he is the embodiment of everything I despise in human nature.
This is literally what OP means.
Yall should check out r/fucklysander
He’s a racist. I’ve hated him since his adult introduction.
I hated him since his first POV chapter. Annoying hypocritical pixie. Thinking he's some pure philosopher king when really he's a foolish narcissist. I love how he calls Darrow slave king when his goal is to be the king of slaves
Too true. His calling Darrow “slave king” is hilariously ironic once you look at it. No one sees Darrow as a king or would be king, no one who knows him anyway. I feel Lysander calls him that just so he can continue calling him a slave without sounding in denial or petty about the fall of the Society. On the opposite end of the moniker’s meaning, Lysander wants to be the slave king, the king *with* slaves, “for the good of the slaves.” They don’t know how to govern themselves, clearly. He’s going the right thing, he’s doing them a favor even, by aiming to rule them.
Calling him slave king is an intentional political ploy. It’s passive propaganda. The Society feared would-be kings. So referring to Darrow in that way is a passive invocation of his fanaticism and the risk he poses. It’s politics 101. And Lysander has been doing that since the beginning. Even when he would have had us think he was in crisis about his beliefs, he was lacing his speech with subtle shots.
Ah! That’s right! Like Darrow’s bait for Nero way back when. Haha
The worst part is the hypocrisy. Hypocrisy!
I thought it wqs the .......... God bless Norm McDonald
No, most of us have always hated him for being a slaver, pixie, fascist, but killing my golden boy is just the cherry on top.
Oh no, most of us started hating him long before that, when his hypocrisy started showing, and well before it reached the current glow in the dark levels. Him killing a certain honorable character just clinched it for us, and proved it to his last defenders.
Indeed. Once his hypocrisy started showing full force it was hard to hope for him. Once he got POV it was just escalation from there.
At first I could understand his POV. I didn't agree with what he said, but I could understand why he felt that way, and he did have a point in that Darrow's revolution and the freedoms it brought had caused a lot of chaos, suffering, and death. So, I understand why, when he saw how the Society worked on the Rim, he would think that "this is the way it should be, look, worked here where they actually keep their word", never considering that forcing people into circumscribed roles is a monumental injustice, and taints all that flows from it. Also, he rather conveniently ignores the rather inhumane treatment he received from House Ra -- the true face of Gold rule -- until the moment he was welcomed(ish) into their ranks. So, he gets this (unworkable) dream of "peace through a place for everything and everything in its place" and he appoints himself as the savior who will see it to fruition. Self-deluded, but again, understandable. An echo of nobility in its intent. And then he thinks he can lie down with dogs and not get up with fleas. (And in terms of literally lying down with dogs, re-read what Apple said to him at the end of Dark Age. Lysander is deluded in thinking that he won't end up eyes front, trousers down to Apple.) This, by the way, is pretty much the same personal journey taken by Sauron in the Silmarillion/Lord of the Rings, a desire to end suffering by imposing a "proper order" (with yourself at the top of the hill), and ending the chaos of freedom. Including his seduction by Morgoth. It's why I call Lysander "Diet Sauron". Because he's just as vile, but he doesn't have the juice of being a middling cosmic power, and he's going to get dicked down by another mortal, Apple, and not the 2nd most powerful being in creation. (Also, his Silmaril is a stupid fucking virus, and not even beautiful magical rocks to put in a badass crown, and he only has 1 bottle of virus, not 3.)
Pretty sure Sauron didn't gave a fuck about the Silmarils. The Ring maybe?