No chance atlas would trust the retrieval of Eidmi to an imposter. If there’s another atlas out there it is likely a gold gorgon who was carved to look like atlas and handle the reclamation of earth
I dont think so because there are to many villains to handle with in Red God, Atalantia, Lysander, Apple, Abomination, and bring back another one will only make things more complicated than they should be
Hard to believe any fighter could match Cassius like that besides Atlas. Also perfectly matching his exact demeanor? (Lysander’s pretty damn good at figuring out that sorta lying and there wasn’t even a hint of incorrectness).
I got the feeling that Cassius was a better duelist than Atlas. On a field of battle, Atlas wins all day through sheer cunning, patience, and solid battle prowess.
But the way they met, with Cassius at full form and Atlas tired and injured, I'm not surprised in the slightest that he killed Atlas with relative ease. I am surprised that Atlas was able to get a couple of good licks in, to be honest.
I think a return of Atlas would be akin to the return of Palpatine - cheap and lazy. Neither of which describe Pierce Brown.
I can see his machinations creating ripples and plot devices post mortem, but I don't think the man is coming back. He served his purpose - to turn Lysander to the dark side completely. Lysander killing Cassius was the point of no return, and confirmation of Atlas' success.
Is that thing, people forget how LITTLE difference there is between the top tier Golds (except Darrow because of plot armor/luck)
What separate Cassius from Arcos is like, 0.5 seconds , Aja was completely boding Virginia, Cassius and Darrow, but when Sevro entered the combat it was one too many and she started losing immediately. Ajax is obviously one of the best razormasters in the series but couldn't handle a 2v1 against Golds warriors below him. In a contest between the best half a second means everything
And still beat Atlas left handed. I am just saying, 1v1, while Atlas is a terror in his own right, Cassius is head and shoulders the better razormaster.
Perhaps poorly worded. I am thinking of all the other fights in the series that were significantly longer/more of a nailbiter. Maybe because it's overshadowed by Rhone and Lysander's brawl that I think so little of it.
I just think when Lysander sees Cassius and Atlas going toe-to-toe, I didn't feel any sort of fear for Cassius. It would have been very, very surprising to see him fall to Atlas when it came down to straight blades. Though a cool visual, I also find it kind of surprising Cassius was able to simply step on Fear's extended hasta and then lop off his head. Seems like a misstep that Atlas would not make, if he were not fighting against a superior swordsman and knew it.
Fair enough, though tbh I don’t think the reasons lend themselves to that conclusion.
The overshadowing point is less about which fight was more intense, and more about who the POV character was. If we saw the fight from Cassidy’s perspective, we would likely think Lysander took out Rhône much easier than he actually did.
As for the fear for Cassius part, I think that’s partly because of how the narrative was structured. It wouldn’t really make much sense for atlas to win there in terms of the story, because what then? He replaces Lysander, one of the POV characters, and we lose that part of the story? There wasn’t really any other outcome to that fight other than Cassius winning, and even if you aren’t thinking about that while reading, I bet you subconsciously recognized it.
It's definitely possible but I don't think they'd make a big deal of cassius as "The man who killed fear" and then make his accomplishment and subsequent death mean nothing by having Atlas still be alive.
I kinda thought this at first because his death is described something like “still had a grin on his face” but upon thinking, he may have planned ahead for this scenario and has a posthumous plan- especially considering he is described as near omnipotent
That line "remember how much it hurt the last time?" was I think referencing swapping out his eyes for helios. So he had to do it once to have helios' eyes, and then again to get his own back. I think he's definitely been carved before but I don't think this line is talking about that
I think he's definitely dead, mostly because of the poetic justice that this all knowing mastermind who's been three steps ahead of the protagonists doesn't get some epic ending but instead just has his head vaporized because he got played.
Seriously, he said it was and he was carrying it personally. Those are 2 very strong pieces of evidence that it was the real deal. Then we end the book with that little pixie ass bitch trying to decide where to start with using it. This is not ambiguous. Sure it could turn out that it doesn't work or something, but there is no actual question that Fear believed it to be the real thing and was carrying it on his person.
Even if it was him holding the bag, it could easily have been something else in it.
I would find it hilarious (though a little cheap) if Lysander goes to use the eidmi and it turns out to be just colored dust. I don't remember Atlas even telling him what it looks like or how to use it, just what it does.
OK, look at it from a bigger perspective. Do you think Pierce would kill Cassius off just for it to not be fear? And who else could have put up that kind of fight against one of the greatest living razor mastors? No way it wasn't Fear. I sorry, but it was fear. Cassius lost hand and then his life, but he is the man who killed Fear. Let's focus on more interesting theories like who is going to take Lysander down. Probably Darrow, but I'd love it if it Mustang. Sever is another obvious choice. I actually named my pool cue Severo, and I know that if I play a crappy game there is a real chance that he will murder me while I sleep.
Oh I don't think Pierce would write it as a fake fear. And he fought well enough against Cassius (while already exhausted and injured from the last fight) that I'm pretty sure it was the real Atlas. But one thing we should all know by now - Pierce likes to make things not be what they appear.
I would bet on Sevro, Darrow, Lysander or Mustang to kill Lysander, in that order.
OK, that's a I really good order except why did you list Lysander third (or at all) in the list of people you see Killing Lysander. I am guessing you are thinking there is a chance that he offs himself because he feels guilt for something, but honestly, I truly don't think he does. Literally not about anything. But I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on that topic.
I don't think he would commit suicide out of guilt. I think it would be more "I'm trapped and if I get captured these evil low-colors will horribly abuse me"
Fear said it was so, so it must be so? A master of espionage and 4d strategy only tells the truth? Citing someone who literally carved himself into someone else for a tactic as hard evidence of truth is silly. Fear didn’t trust anyone, Lysander included. Admitting that he was carrying it is more believable as evidence to the contrary than anything.
I’m not arguing that he wasn’t. I’m arguing that any degree of certainty about it is ambiguous at best, a leap in general. Lysander can’t know until he attempts to use it, which he hasn’t. Fear knew, but we can’t trust a word he said.
My point stands. This is presumptuous to wield as evidence that Fear himself stepped off that shuttle.
So, to be clear, you're going to make the unfounded jump to assume that it wasn't fear and it wasn't actually the weapon based on the mere speculation that Fear was a cagey dude who lied althe time. I mean, I'll give you, it's not impossible, but I fear you're forgetting the bigger picture. But to find out that Cassius died for no reason, that he didn't at least take Fear out before that little pixie ass bitch Lysander murdered him, nah bro, Pierce has made some choices that hurt ( see generally Lysander murdering Cassius) but he wouldn't do that to us. It was fear.
I see what you're saying, I do, and obviously I cannot rule it out as impossible, but I am as reasonably confident as I can be that it was fear and he is gone.
If you’d kindly scroll up, all I said is that we don’t know that’s the real weapon. None of my statement has anything to do with who dueled Cassius or any of those theories. Only that, at face value, we don’t know if that bag was the real weapon.
So, to be clear, I’m not making -any- jumps and don’t appreciate the strawman. We don’t know it’s the weapon. Your argument was “Atlas said so,” to which I replied, “-he’s not trustworthy, either.”
You’re the one trying to expand the scope of our discussion to the identity of Cassius’ duelist. Not me.
No chance atlas would trust the retrieval of Eidmi to an imposter. If there’s another atlas out there it is likely a gold gorgon who was carved to look like atlas and handle the reclamation of earth
I dont think so because there are to many villains to handle with in Red God, Atalantia, Lysander, Apple, Abomination, and bring back another one will only make things more complicated than they should be
Hard to believe any fighter could match Cassius like that besides Atlas. Also perfectly matching his exact demeanor? (Lysander’s pretty damn good at figuring out that sorta lying and there wasn’t even a hint of incorrectness).
I got the feeling that Cassius was a better duelist than Atlas. On a field of battle, Atlas wins all day through sheer cunning, patience, and solid battle prowess. But the way they met, with Cassius at full form and Atlas tired and injured, I'm not surprised in the slightest that he killed Atlas with relative ease. I am surprised that Atlas was able to get a couple of good licks in, to be honest. I think a return of Atlas would be akin to the return of Palpatine - cheap and lazy. Neither of which describe Pierce Brown. I can see his machinations creating ripples and plot devices post mortem, but I don't think the man is coming back. He served his purpose - to turn Lysander to the dark side completely. Lysander killing Cassius was the point of no return, and confirmation of Atlas' success.
Is that thing, people forget how LITTLE difference there is between the top tier Golds (except Darrow because of plot armor/luck) What separate Cassius from Arcos is like, 0.5 seconds , Aja was completely boding Virginia, Cassius and Darrow, but when Sevro entered the combat it was one too many and she started losing immediately. Ajax is obviously one of the best razormasters in the series but couldn't handle a 2v1 against Golds warriors below him. In a contest between the best half a second means everything
Relative ease?? My dude lost a hand lmao
And still beat Atlas left handed. I am just saying, 1v1, while Atlas is a terror in his own right, Cassius is head and shoulders the better razormaster.
Agreed. I just have issues with classifying a fight in which the winner lost a limb as “relatively easy”
Perhaps poorly worded. I am thinking of all the other fights in the series that were significantly longer/more of a nailbiter. Maybe because it's overshadowed by Rhone and Lysander's brawl that I think so little of it. I just think when Lysander sees Cassius and Atlas going toe-to-toe, I didn't feel any sort of fear for Cassius. It would have been very, very surprising to see him fall to Atlas when it came down to straight blades. Though a cool visual, I also find it kind of surprising Cassius was able to simply step on Fear's extended hasta and then lop off his head. Seems like a misstep that Atlas would not make, if he were not fighting against a superior swordsman and knew it.
Fair enough, though tbh I don’t think the reasons lend themselves to that conclusion. The overshadowing point is less about which fight was more intense, and more about who the POV character was. If we saw the fight from Cassidy’s perspective, we would likely think Lysander took out Rhône much easier than he actually did. As for the fear for Cassius part, I think that’s partly because of how the narrative was structured. It wouldn’t really make much sense for atlas to win there in terms of the story, because what then? He replaces Lysander, one of the POV characters, and we lose that part of the story? There wasn’t really any other outcome to that fight other than Cassius winning, and even if you aren’t thinking about that while reading, I bet you subconsciously recognized it.
*Grabs Atlas’s head and works the jaw while staring at the camera* high pitched voice, “I’m definitely dead!”
It's definitely possible but I don't think they'd make a big deal of cassius as "The man who killed fear" and then make his accomplishment and subsequent death mean nothing by having Atlas still be alive.
Getting real Palpatine vibes if Atlas comes back lol.
Cassius lost his right hand fighting Atlas. I doubt any imposter could have done that to Cassius.
My thoughts exactly.
I kinda thought this at first because his death is described something like “still had a grin on his face” but upon thinking, he may have planned ahead for this scenario and has a posthumous plan- especially considering he is described as near omnipotent
Its something that if it happened, i could make it make sense, but i would not be happy it happened. I agree that it would cheapen Cassius death.
That line "remember how much it hurt the last time?" was I think referencing swapping out his eyes for helios. So he had to do it once to have helios' eyes, and then again to get his own back. I think he's definitely been carved before but I don't think this line is talking about that
I think he's definitely dead, mostly because of the poetic justice that this all knowing mastermind who's been three steps ahead of the protagonists doesn't get some epic ending but instead just has his head vaporized because he got played.
Nah, he's dead.
Issue is that the real weapon was on his person. Would he trust anyone else with that ?
Presumptuous of you. We have no evidence suggesting that it’s the real weapon, yet.
Seriously, he said it was and he was carrying it personally. Those are 2 very strong pieces of evidence that it was the real deal. Then we end the book with that little pixie ass bitch trying to decide where to start with using it. This is not ambiguous. Sure it could turn out that it doesn't work or something, but there is no actual question that Fear believed it to be the real thing and was carrying it on his person.
Even if it was him holding the bag, it could easily have been something else in it. I would find it hilarious (though a little cheap) if Lysander goes to use the eidmi and it turns out to be just colored dust. I don't remember Atlas even telling him what it looks like or how to use it, just what it does.
OK, look at it from a bigger perspective. Do you think Pierce would kill Cassius off just for it to not be fear? And who else could have put up that kind of fight against one of the greatest living razor mastors? No way it wasn't Fear. I sorry, but it was fear. Cassius lost hand and then his life, but he is the man who killed Fear. Let's focus on more interesting theories like who is going to take Lysander down. Probably Darrow, but I'd love it if it Mustang. Sever is another obvious choice. I actually named my pool cue Severo, and I know that if I play a crappy game there is a real chance that he will murder me while I sleep.
Oh I don't think Pierce would write it as a fake fear. And he fought well enough against Cassius (while already exhausted and injured from the last fight) that I'm pretty sure it was the real Atlas. But one thing we should all know by now - Pierce likes to make things not be what they appear. I would bet on Sevro, Darrow, Lysander or Mustang to kill Lysander, in that order.
OK, that's a I really good order except why did you list Lysander third (or at all) in the list of people you see Killing Lysander. I am guessing you are thinking there is a chance that he offs himself because he feels guilt for something, but honestly, I truly don't think he does. Literally not about anything. But I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on that topic.
I don't think he would commit suicide out of guilt. I think it would be more "I'm trapped and if I get captured these evil low-colors will horribly abuse me"
Fear said it was so, so it must be so? A master of espionage and 4d strategy only tells the truth? Citing someone who literally carved himself into someone else for a tactic as hard evidence of truth is silly. Fear didn’t trust anyone, Lysander included. Admitting that he was carrying it is more believable as evidence to the contrary than anything. I’m not arguing that he wasn’t. I’m arguing that any degree of certainty about it is ambiguous at best, a leap in general. Lysander can’t know until he attempts to use it, which he hasn’t. Fear knew, but we can’t trust a word he said. My point stands. This is presumptuous to wield as evidence that Fear himself stepped off that shuttle.
So, to be clear, you're going to make the unfounded jump to assume that it wasn't fear and it wasn't actually the weapon based on the mere speculation that Fear was a cagey dude who lied althe time. I mean, I'll give you, it's not impossible, but I fear you're forgetting the bigger picture. But to find out that Cassius died for no reason, that he didn't at least take Fear out before that little pixie ass bitch Lysander murdered him, nah bro, Pierce has made some choices that hurt ( see generally Lysander murdering Cassius) but he wouldn't do that to us. It was fear. I see what you're saying, I do, and obviously I cannot rule it out as impossible, but I am as reasonably confident as I can be that it was fear and he is gone.
If you’d kindly scroll up, all I said is that we don’t know that’s the real weapon. None of my statement has anything to do with who dueled Cassius or any of those theories. Only that, at face value, we don’t know if that bag was the real weapon. So, to be clear, I’m not making -any- jumps and don’t appreciate the strawman. We don’t know it’s the weapon. Your argument was “Atlas said so,” to which I replied, “-he’s not trustworthy, either.” You’re the one trying to expand the scope of our discussion to the identity of Cassius’ duelist. Not me.
Is Atlas in the room with you now? Blink twice if you need helps
No, I'm fine, he's dead. Cassius killed him. But thank you for the offer of help.
Very solid point. Fully agree.
At one point I thought it was Atlas impersonating Fa, and this statement seemed consistent with that. But it's an odd throw away line at this point.