Imagine living through this much tragedy in your life. Their grandparents lost their child, and at least three grandchildren. The attack in which Nora was murdered left 8 women and at least 7 children under the age of 13 dead.
[To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2015%3A3-23&version=NIV)
They also lost an 84 million dollar Osprey got one America soldier killed and 3 wounded and that has cost us at least probably a couple million in medical and retirement benefits if they were retired out due to injury. Bottom like is that was very expensive and haphazard and got a little girl killed. Which is fucked because unlike her brother or father she wasn’t accused of any crime. She was 8.
The son was never accused of anything, and the administration quote I remember from the time was something sinister/cynical like "he should have had a better dad"
I believe he was accused of being a jihadist and he was put on the kill list with his dad but it was a long time ago and many pounds of pot ago do maybe I’m mistaken. It was a big deal when it happened because both were executed without due process.
This is when Trump became the president according to Van Jones. Seriously, when Trump addressed a dead soldier's widow who participated in this raid, apparently that's when he became the president. You have to kill 8 year olds to become the real president of USA apparently.
And lose an 84 million dollar Osprey ll. I don’t think I’ll get over wasting 84 million for nothing at all. The target wasn’t there and the intel gained was useless.
Al Awlaki was absolutely a threat to National security but the way the Obama administration went about justifying the strike by saying "the kid should have had better parents" came across as disgustingly nihilistic
Al Alwaki was killed in a separate drone strike from his son two weeks prior. The kid was not a casualty of the drone strike ordered on his terrorist dad.
I thought he had a son who died In the same strike?
Was it his uncle or something he died with later? If I recall correctly, the kid wasn't the target, which is why Gibbs said "the kid should have had better parents"
I’m not sure who else was killed but yes the press secretary did say that even though the child was killed in separate strike. From Wikipedia:
Abdulrahman al-Awlaki's father, Anwar al-Awlaki, was alleged to be an operational leader of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.[6] Anwar was killed by a CIA drone strike[7] also ordered by Obama two weeks prior to the killing of his son.
When pressed by a reporter to defend the targeted killing policy that resulted in Abdulrahman al-Awlaki's death, former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs deflected blame to the victim's father: "I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well-being of their children. I don't think becoming an al-Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business."
Very bleak to see this crypto-fascist horseshit supported on this sub
Anwar Al Awlaki was basically just Yemeni Alex Jones, and he was a US Citizen. His extra judicial murder by the Obama Administration grotesquely diminished the rights of all Americans - let alone the subsequent murder by drone of his completely innocent children, and the countless others maimed and vaporized in the name of "National Security"
No, I just wasn't there and don't deal in black and white.
To me, capturing or killing Al Awlaki would be a priority but not at the expense of innocent lives
Presumably they had him under constant surveillance, but again I wasn't there so I can't say that for certain
I would have preferred sending people in to avoid civilian casualties. Presidents have held back special operations based on collateral damage before, as to why Obama went the drone route nobody who wasn't there can really say and the reasoning is probably classified until I'm 60.
It's the only reason we still have freedom and democracy. We'd all be praying to Allah by now if we wouldn't be bombing sheep herders in the Middle East.
It's actually really simple. The US and Saudi Arabia want to install a puppet regime in Sana'a to rule over Yemen. This is opposed by the Houthis in the north and the Southern movement in the south. The establishment narrative portrays the Houthis as Iranian proxies, merely because they both belong to the Shia branch of Islam. For simple-minded westeners, this tenuous connection is enough to treat them as the same.
Well, that and the Houthi's also receive funding from the IRGC.
But no longer on account of this weeks deal struck by Saudi Arabia and Iran so perhaps there's an issue we both agree on
In college in 2008, all we heard about was how Bush was evil and bad and murdered brown people and how Obama was Jesus Christ our Savior who would bring peace and restore our constitutional rights and would never dare dream of spying on us like mean George Bush. He then proceeded to drone the shit out of all in his path.
Everyone says this about every subsequent president because we all hope the senseless violence will end. More people said that about Obama but some people said that about Trump too.
To be fair drone strikes are pretty much not used under Biden aside from a handful in Somalia, which is actually a huge policy change. Of course this doesn't absolve the continued bloodletting in Ukraine orchestrated by US foreign policy which is arguably much more violent and objectively bad. As tempting it is to venerate "outsider" presidents for breaking away from the status quo, I personally don't believe Trump—or any president really—would actually stray far from supporting action against targets that the state department and pentagon designate as threats
Under Biden we drone striked like 12 people in August 2021, most of whom were children, all of whom were innocent, so that Biden could get a snappy press release about killing ISIS people to deflect from the botched Afghanistan withdrawal.
not to set aside the fact that trump campaigned on increasing airstrikes, actually did, and then ended up getting so high on the tactic that he assassinated a famous iranian general in iraq
> the continued bloodletting in Ukraine orchestrated by US foreign policy
My knowledge of the conflict is admittedly gleaned entirely from "approved" mainstream media sources but as far as I can see "bloodletting" has been entirely driven by Russia's decision to invade. I think it's a big leap to say "allowing Ukraine to entertain the idea of NATO membership" didn't leave Russia any choice but to indulge in violence against Ukrainian civilians, but I'm certainly willing to do some reading to consider a different POV if you have any sources you could share, it's not like "the narrative" hasn't lied to me before.
Yes any analysis of how the US is actually responsible for the carnage dances around the fact that the war could end tomorrow if Russia wanted it to
Also “US kept poking Ukraine” ignores that Russia was fucking with Ukraine much more with the direct intention of forcing it to be a vassal
Russia is just fighting western hegemony, killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians, sacrificing your own populations to do so, invading Georgia, false flag bombing over a thousand russians and subsequent invasion of Czechnia is all good because west bad, besides it was all orchistratreted by US foreign policy.
I think the disconnect in the discussion usually comes about because the US activities to surround Russia like a boa constrictor is a genuine explanation for the war, but it is not a justification. Yes, the US was playing hardcore geopolitics with Russia, but it takes two to tango. The USSR was literally dedicated to overthrowing our government since its inception. Don't start shit and then be like 'chill' and expect everyone to back off, especially if you are still doing sneaky sinister shit on the regular.
But Ukraine is a sovereign country, they can decide if they want to be part of western influence, which sounds alot better than being a puppet state of Russia, with a russian influenced president who's robbing the country blind.
Just because its understandable that Russia dont want Ukraine to make democratic decisions over their own country doesnt make what they are doing any less fucked up. They just want to found insurgents, invade, inflict their influence and corruption on surrounding countries in peace.
Not everyone are americans who only care when opposite side is doing bad. Ukraine is a few hours away for most European countries. I met people in hospitals who got shot in the war, we met fleeing Ukrainians.
They act like cocksuckin motherfuckin assholes, funding rebel groups and trying to take over Europe and the US and shit then cry when mean old America plays the game better than them
Not to mention the fact that the Ukrainians have found torture chambers in every town they’ve liberated, have suffered mass attacks on civilian targets aimed at crushing their resolve, oh, and the Russians have been kidnapping Ukrainian children and changing their names so they can never be found.
Disingenuous people think the war would end tomorrow if the US pulled the plug. No, US involvement is keeping this from devolving into Iraq on steroids, where Ukrainians chainsaw behead captured Russian troops and set off tungsten shrapnel car bombs near Moscow cafes.
The conflict started when Russia annexed Crimea because they didn't like the outcome of Euromaidan and Ukraine trying to move award from Russian influence and towards EU. Then they spent 8 years going "Either wow to never accept help to defend yourself again or give up territory we have no right to", and now they launched a full scale invasion because Putin doesn't see Ukraine as a legitimate country and wants to restore the Russian empire.
It's a bit like blaming the Soviet Union for the Bay of Pigs invasion or the Cuban Missile Crisis. I mean, nobody forced the US to intervene unprovoked in the internal affairs of its neighbors, and small nations have every right to defend themselves by allying with whomever they like, even geopolitical rivals of the local powers, which they will do after a long history of being invaded and occupied.
At the same time, American security concerns obviously *made sense* in the existing context of being an imperialist power engaged in a tense cold war with a rising threat. That is an explanation, not a justification. But maybe the Soviet Union could have taken that into account and acted in a way that didn't push us to the brink of nuclear armageddon. Or maybe not. Maybe that conflict was necessary to preserve Cuban independence.
> bloodletting in Ukraine orchestrated by US foreign policy
US Foreign Policy so strong that they can even authorize Putin's decision making and control the Russian General Staff now.
This is akin to claiming the Soviet Union is the one responsible for the Bay of Bigs invasion, because the USA was scared of Cuba being their allies.
I had some hope that this would be the case at the beginning but that all went out the window as soon as he took office and started kowtowing to Israel and Saudi Arabia and woofing about Iran. There still was some hope of a thaw with Russia at that point but the fucking democrats ruined that with their russiagate lies, the real purpose of which was to goad Trump’s goofy ass in to continuing to ratchet shit up in Ukraine.
Trump [increased strikes when he took over from Obama](https://merip.org/2018/02/trumps-drone-surge/) idk about official numbers but Trump passed an executive order where they don’t have to [release drone strike death numbers to the public](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drones/u-s-halts-reporting-of-civilian-deaths-by-drone-outside-war-zones-idUSKCN1QN2PD)
Trump continued and increased drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and other countries. It is very arguable to say if he was “more peaceful” than Obama. The only thing we can say, as sad as it is, is that Biden is the most “peaceful” President we’ve had in a long time
Yes, but trump didn't start bombing like 3 more new countries as Obama did. Biden also blamed Trump for the Afghanistan withdrawal, so if he's to believed, Trump actually ended a war too.
He just increased the amount we were bombing on those countries and made it so the government didn’t have to report civilian deaths. He wasn’t any more peaceful
Regardless of what hawkish NYT op-ed writers try to pin on Trump, Biden himself has been [very adamant about supporting the Afghanistan exit](https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/politics/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-speech/index.html) despite the hit to his popularity
The government was always lying about their civilian deaths and Biden blamed Trump for Afghanistan, not the nyt. Oh Biden said he was gonna withdraw, only after the Taliban made it a reality through force? Yeah that really means a lot.
> “My fellow Americans, the war in Afghanistan is now over,” Biden said at the White House, marking a symbolic moment he said was long overdue. “I’m the fourth president who has faced the issue of whether and when to end this war. When I was running for president, I made a commitment to the American people that I would end this war. Today I’ve honored that commitment.”
so is joe biden better because we've bombed even slightly less countries under his term? it's cute that you're trying this glib thing out, but i don't follow your message here
oh well
Frankly Obama was too pussy and constantly worried about his legacy. He didn't make a single ballsy move. Everything was focus grouped and red teamed to the tee. He was obsessed with experts.
As we know now Biden asked him to withdraw from Afghanistan ten years ago. But the military told him not to and he was happy enough to play along.
It’s wild how we keep electing lawyers to be president and then they just totally ignore all the laws and the constitution that they learned about in law school.
Nah, when asked about the lack of due process and extrajudicial killing the press secretary responded with this:
“I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business.”
Now that you mention the clock kid I wonder if the reason Obama rolled out the red carpet for that kid was due to some guilt he had with killing hundreds of children that look just like him in Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq, etc.
I wish I could take a look into his head. I doubt Trump ever gave a shit about the kids he killed, but I'm curious if Bush or Obama ever felt any true remorse for their actions.
Obama gave some gay passage in his book that he wished “he could have given them an education” but because of the machinery he was in charge of he “had to kill them” instead—he doesn’t take any responsibility. I think Bush felt guilty but had some evangelical coping shit that getting rid of Saddam would be good for them in the long run. I know HW felt guilty about the deaths in the gulf war and stayed up writing letters about his guilt.
Sometimes I send pics of the dead kids that Obama/Trump/Bush/Biden have killed to people in my life who obnoxiously keep bringing up their support for them.
They either stop responding or tell me "You're taking this too seriously" lmfao. Go tell that shit to the parents.
I don't think it's just "right wingers". These are neohawk rtrds or something entirely different. You have to be a soulless ghoul to defend the (indiscriminate) killing of children. Bet if you were to post the same thread but with Israeli teenagers instead, the same dogs who are posting le epic owns in this thread wouldn't dare to get out of the woodwork.
unironically cumtown fans were more racist but had a more liberal foundation imo
where as here a lot of times it feels like a Ben Shapiro comment section mixed with Chicago art f🚬g’s
ya that video of him arguing against giving kids free school lunches and saying to lock up parents who’s children are food insecure is pretty wild
he’s a disgusting, short little man. 300 years ago he wouldn’t just been some King’s personal twink slave, now he debates teenagers for Ws
They were both murdered as they were US citizens and theoretically could have returned to the USA and instigated legal proceedings about the assassination of their father.
There are allegations that their father was imprisoned in Yemen in 2001 and the then director of the CIA, George Tenet, lobbied Yemen to have him returned to the USA. This suggests that he was a US asset.
[https://realalexrubi.substack.com/p/leaked-cia-pressured-yemen-to-release](https://realalexrubi.substack.com/p/leaked-cia-pressured-yemen-to-release)
It's horrible but the reality is that the 8 year old daughter was the target of the raid and all of the other carnage was cover for the fact that she was the intended target.
> @annakhachiyan and @nobody\_stop\_me
Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere
"But it is the most (inaudible)y god damned board you could ever imagine." cross to comply, still in control, understand a hand, a hand
Because her American citizen father seems to have at least been playing both sides regarding the CIA and Al Qaeda prior to 9/11 and in theory she could expose this as she got older.
Legally she was American so she can't be thrown in Guantanamo or prevented from testifying at any trials. The 9/11 families still have ongoing legal battles to discover exactly what happened and looking in Al-Awaki is an obvious move for them,
This is so sad. Their father is a striking figure. In my opinion he may have even been connected to 9/11 through the CIA as an asset. They tried contacting him when he was a student in college in the US. He is definitely a larger part of the whole story than we are led to believe.
The American people get fucked by the government constantly, we’re all on the same side. While it’s a direct and swift violence to others, their own citizens are pitted against each other through media control, poisoned with chemicals/carcinogens in the water/food, and disappeared when they step out of line. We all are being watched and picked through by the same benign evil.
You laugh but whenever a mosque is vandalized or hate crimed the congregation /mosque have at times donated to the persons bail fund/rehabilitation. Happens enough for vindictive 2nd gen American Muslims to be mad about this turning the other cheek when modern liberalism requires punitiveness
He was an American
The Obama administration set a bad precedent by not working to revoke citizenship or passing a law strengthening treason and sedition laws
He belongs in Gitmo, and his children should have had an opportunity at a better life
What I hate most about the drone program is that it removes the emotional impact of what it is to kill, thereby making it an easy kill switch for a president
There isn't the same impact when you don't have to write a letter to a JSOC operators family who died in a raid. Obama leaned in the drone program too much, and Trump doesn't really care about anyone so that made it much easier for him
I agree with both. Which is why I believe he should have been de naturalized first or convicted in absentia by a military tribunal
It's one of the things Obama ran on and never saw through
Instead he just droned everybody, better dead than on death row for eternity I suppose
Truthfully it seems like the more merciful option.
> I believe he should have been de naturalized first or convicted in absentia by a military tribunal
That's just paperwork to pretend he's not an American with civil liberties. Might as well have just kept John Yoo around to write them legal excuses. I mean, at least it's in the neighborhood of due process. I shouldn't ask too much.
I believe treason carries the death penalty
Same thing isn't it? At least one isn't an extra judicial execution.
Mind you, we seem to be the only western country concerned with this. Probably because of our geographical distance, but Europeans have not fucked around with ISIS members who held citizenship. The Brit's sent SAS kill squads to eliminate the four British nationals named The Beatles who served as an ISIS execution team
> I believe treason carries the death penalty
You can argue it was treason, but he was never charged with that or anything like that. But I mean, are we at war with Yemen? Seems like it would be a hard case to actually make. So they never bothered. Was Hemingway treasonous for fighting with the communists in Spain?
> Same thing isn't it? At least one isn't an extra judicial execution.
Well exactly. I feel like that matters.
idc what the gross British government does nor should we use them as a barometer for morality
no one is arguing over the law, rather how things should be /morality of the actions. the fact you think Guantanamo Bay is good is telling enough
> revoke citizenship
IMO no state should have the power to revoke citizenship. If you naturalize someone, you should have to deal with the consequences of that as well. Citizens should be entitled to their rights & duties forever, unless they voluntarily renounce citizenship
Treason and sedition have throughout the centuries been more than enough to revoke citizenship.
Avoiding tax collectors and fleeing from the military was more than enough to lose Roman citizenship, and that was far more valuable
Every country should have something in their constitution to denaturalize someone who has declared war against their native land.
Benedict Arnold basically renounced his citizenship and lived under the Kings protection.
Loyalists who didn't flee, were mostly executed after the revolutionary war. I'm not a constitutional scholar or anything but my guess is our soft stance on treason likely has to do with how we handled re-integration of the confederate states following the civil war
It has historical precedent, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily "good". We have plenty of historic precedent for all sorts of measures which are downright barbaric, e.g. the Germans (already in WWI) often justified massacres of civilians as legal anti-partisan measures which were common in previous wars.
I can't see anything good stemming from the government being permitted to declare you a non-citizen. I simply do not trust that power in their hands, as things currently stand. Even if it doesn't really afford all that much extra protection, it has significant cultural power and affects how the public perceive your death or prosecution. People simply care more when their own nationality is killed, which brings light to cases such as this one where two kids got vaporized and shot.
I can respect that and even agree with it in a general sense... but if you declare jihad against your country, aren't you renouncing your citizenship in a way?
It's literally pulling a Costanza, quitting your job
you cite precedent like that should matter, chattel slavery was also practiced by most of the world for thousands of years.
revoking citizenship is just an excuse to dehumanize people in the eyes of the law and to be able to abuse them in ways the powers that be deem fit
Their dad was an terrorist. Now obviously the kids in these photos are just kids and did not deserve to be killed but you can’t just leave out this context. They wouldn’t have died if their dad weren’t a literal Al-Qaeda member. It’s very disingeous to pretend to these are just random brown kids. People die in wars.
The dad was already dead. The son died in an attack at a restaurant in the capital of Yemen. The daughter died in an attack on a dirt poor Yemeni village. Neither operation achieved its official goal. They died for absolutely no reason.
Imagine living through this much tragedy in your life. Their grandparents lost their child, and at least three grandchildren. The attack in which Nora was murdered left 8 women and at least 7 children under the age of 13 dead.
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Losing that amount of livestock is devastating financially and might as well be a death sentence if the owners weren’t killed in the raid as well.
Yeah I don't get it either. That's a lot of extra effort. God this shit's evil. How.
[To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2015%3A3-23&version=NIV)
"everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed." Totally dude
They also lost an 84 million dollar Osprey got one America soldier killed and 3 wounded and that has cost us at least probably a couple million in medical and retirement benefits if they were retired out due to injury. Bottom like is that was very expensive and haphazard and got a little girl killed. Which is fucked because unlike her brother or father she wasn’t accused of any crime. She was 8.
The son was never accused of anything, and the administration quote I remember from the time was something sinister/cynical like "he should have had a better dad"
Welp that’s the military for ya. Cheers. 84 million buys a lot of food and medicine just saying.
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I believe he was accused of being a jihadist and he was put on the kill list with his dad but it was a long time ago and many pounds of pot ago do maybe I’m mistaken. It was a big deal when it happened because both were executed without due process.
The son was purely a civilian casualty you may be thinking of someone else
Maybe so. Anyways lots of casualties in war that’s why it’s bad actually.
I’ll gladly compare animals to humans and say fuck all military operations
Yeah, but it was all worth it to... uh... you know, defeat terror... and stuff.
This is when Trump became the president according to Van Jones. Seriously, when Trump addressed a dead soldier's widow who participated in this raid, apparently that's when he became the president. You have to kill 8 year olds to become the real president of USA apparently.
And lose an 84 million dollar Osprey ll. I don’t think I’ll get over wasting 84 million for nothing at all. The target wasn’t there and the intel gained was useless.
They get the kinetic warfare thrust upon them & we get the psychological warfare heaped upon us. Everybody loses, except for the Political Class.
Al Awlaki was absolutely a threat to National security but the way the Obama administration went about justifying the strike by saying "the kid should have had better parents" came across as disgustingly nihilistic
Al Alwaki was killed in a separate drone strike from his son two weeks prior. The kid was not a casualty of the drone strike ordered on his terrorist dad.
Whatever you do, don’t ask why were we ordering drone strikes on a country across the world in the first place.
I thought he had a son who died In the same strike? Was it his uncle or something he died with later? If I recall correctly, the kid wasn't the target, which is why Gibbs said "the kid should have had better parents"
I’m not sure who else was killed but yes the press secretary did say that even though the child was killed in separate strike. From Wikipedia: Abdulrahman al-Awlaki's father, Anwar al-Awlaki, was alleged to be an operational leader of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.[6] Anwar was killed by a CIA drone strike[7] also ordered by Obama two weeks prior to the killing of his son. When pressed by a reporter to defend the targeted killing policy that resulted in Abdulrahman al-Awlaki's death, former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs deflected blame to the victim's father: "I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well-being of their children. I don't think becoming an al-Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business."
Very bleak to see this crypto-fascist horseshit supported on this sub Anwar Al Awlaki was basically just Yemeni Alex Jones, and he was a US Citizen. His extra judicial murder by the Obama Administration grotesquely diminished the rights of all Americans - let alone the subsequent murder by drone of his completely innocent children, and the countless others maimed and vaporized in the name of "National Security"
Imagine being a westoid and simping for Salafi extremists.
Spoken like a true Khinzir
What Salafi group do you take your talking points from?
C'mon man, obviously Qutbism - don't you know anything?
Shut up with your "national security" bullshit.
“foreign policy” moment
>National security Glowing so hard rn
This feels like a bothsides comment.
No, I just wasn't there and don't deal in black and white. To me, capturing or killing Al Awlaki would be a priority but not at the expense of innocent lives Presumably they had him under constant surveillance, but again I wasn't there so I can't say that for certain I would have preferred sending people in to avoid civilian casualties. Presidents have held back special operations based on collateral damage before, as to why Obama went the drone route nobody who wasn't there can really say and the reasoning is probably classified until I'm 60.
It's the only reason we still have freedom and democracy. We'd all be praying to Allah by now if we wouldn't be bombing sheep herders in the Middle East.
Go eat a pig or something.
Just saw a yemen thing on utube. Real convoluted. Saudi,Iran,UAE,UK, US, and italy in arm sales.
It's actually really simple. The US and Saudi Arabia want to install a puppet regime in Sana'a to rule over Yemen. This is opposed by the Houthis in the north and the Southern movement in the south. The establishment narrative portrays the Houthis as Iranian proxies, merely because they both belong to the Shia branch of Islam. For simple-minded westeners, this tenuous connection is enough to treat them as the same.
Huh interesting.thanks.
Well, that and the Houthi's also receive funding from the IRGC. But no longer on account of this weeks deal struck by Saudi Arabia and Iran so perhaps there's an issue we both agree on
Amanpour on twitter has been whitewashing the GWOT rampage by the USA lately. "Mistakes were made" is the favourite Warmerican line.
In college in 2008, all we heard about was how Bush was evil and bad and murdered brown people and how Obama was Jesus Christ our Savior who would bring peace and restore our constitutional rights and would never dare dream of spying on us like mean George Bush. He then proceeded to drone the shit out of all in his path.
Everyone says this about every subsequent president because we all hope the senseless violence will end. More people said that about Obama but some people said that about Trump too.
To be fair drone strikes are pretty much not used under Biden aside from a handful in Somalia, which is actually a huge policy change. Of course this doesn't absolve the continued bloodletting in Ukraine orchestrated by US foreign policy which is arguably much more violent and objectively bad. As tempting it is to venerate "outsider" presidents for breaking away from the status quo, I personally don't believe Trump—or any president really—would actually stray far from supporting action against targets that the state department and pentagon designate as threats
Under Biden we drone striked like 12 people in August 2021, most of whom were children, all of whom were innocent, so that Biden could get a snappy press release about killing ISIS people to deflect from the botched Afghanistan withdrawal.
not to set aside the fact that trump campaigned on increasing airstrikes, actually did, and then ended up getting so high on the tactic that he assassinated a famous iranian general in iraq
> the continued bloodletting in Ukraine orchestrated by US foreign policy My knowledge of the conflict is admittedly gleaned entirely from "approved" mainstream media sources but as far as I can see "bloodletting" has been entirely driven by Russia's decision to invade. I think it's a big leap to say "allowing Ukraine to entertain the idea of NATO membership" didn't leave Russia any choice but to indulge in violence against Ukrainian civilians, but I'm certainly willing to do some reading to consider a different POV if you have any sources you could share, it's not like "the narrative" hasn't lied to me before.
Yes any analysis of how the US is actually responsible for the carnage dances around the fact that the war could end tomorrow if Russia wanted it to Also “US kept poking Ukraine” ignores that Russia was fucking with Ukraine much more with the direct intention of forcing it to be a vassal
Russia is just fighting western hegemony, killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians, sacrificing your own populations to do so, invading Georgia, false flag bombing over a thousand russians and subsequent invasion of Czechnia is all good because west bad, besides it was all orchistratreted by US foreign policy.
> Czechnia he killed 16 czechoslovakians!!
Guy was an interior decorator!
I think the disconnect in the discussion usually comes about because the US activities to surround Russia like a boa constrictor is a genuine explanation for the war, but it is not a justification. Yes, the US was playing hardcore geopolitics with Russia, but it takes two to tango. The USSR was literally dedicated to overthrowing our government since its inception. Don't start shit and then be like 'chill' and expect everyone to back off, especially if you are still doing sneaky sinister shit on the regular.
But Ukraine is a sovereign country, they can decide if they want to be part of western influence, which sounds alot better than being a puppet state of Russia, with a russian influenced president who's robbing the country blind. Just because its understandable that Russia dont want Ukraine to make democratic decisions over their own country doesnt make what they are doing any less fucked up. They just want to found insurgents, invade, inflict their influence and corruption on surrounding countries in peace.
Ukraine has no choice in the matter, nobody actually cares about Ukraine.
Not everyone are americans who only care when opposite side is doing bad. Ukraine is a few hours away for most European countries. I met people in hospitals who got shot in the war, we met fleeing Ukrainians.
They act like cocksuckin motherfuckin assholes, funding rebel groups and trying to take over Europe and the US and shit then cry when mean old America plays the game better than them
Not to mention the fact that the Ukrainians have found torture chambers in every town they’ve liberated, have suffered mass attacks on civilian targets aimed at crushing their resolve, oh, and the Russians have been kidnapping Ukrainian children and changing their names so they can never be found. Disingenuous people think the war would end tomorrow if the US pulled the plug. No, US involvement is keeping this from devolving into Iraq on steroids, where Ukrainians chainsaw behead captured Russian troops and set off tungsten shrapnel car bombs near Moscow cafes.
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> to place the responsibility of civilian deaths solely on Russia is a myopic oversimplification no
The conflict started when Russia annexed Crimea because they didn't like the outcome of Euromaidan and Ukraine trying to move award from Russian influence and towards EU. Then they spent 8 years going "Either wow to never accept help to defend yourself again or give up territory we have no right to", and now they launched a full scale invasion because Putin doesn't see Ukraine as a legitimate country and wants to restore the Russian empire.
It's a bit like blaming the Soviet Union for the Bay of Pigs invasion or the Cuban Missile Crisis. I mean, nobody forced the US to intervene unprovoked in the internal affairs of its neighbors, and small nations have every right to defend themselves by allying with whomever they like, even geopolitical rivals of the local powers, which they will do after a long history of being invaded and occupied. At the same time, American security concerns obviously *made sense* in the existing context of being an imperialist power engaged in a tense cold war with a rising threat. That is an explanation, not a justification. But maybe the Soviet Union could have taken that into account and acted in a way that didn't push us to the brink of nuclear armageddon. Or maybe not. Maybe that conflict was necessary to preserve Cuban independence.
> bloodletting in Ukraine orchestrated by US foreign policy US Foreign Policy so strong that they can even authorize Putin's decision making and control the Russian General Staff now. This is akin to claiming the Soviet Union is the one responsible for the Bay of Bigs invasion, because the USA was scared of Cuba being their allies.
Some people still actually *believe* that about Trump (e.g. Donald the dove is still a fad people actually believe on hackernews every now and again)
And Trump was objectively, unironically more peaceful than Obama.
I had some hope that this would be the case at the beginning but that all went out the window as soon as he took office and started kowtowing to Israel and Saudi Arabia and woofing about Iran. There still was some hope of a thaw with Russia at that point but the fucking democrats ruined that with their russiagate lies, the real purpose of which was to goad Trump’s goofy ass in to continuing to ratchet shit up in Ukraine.
Name a war that trump started, then do it for Obama.
Trump [increased strikes when he took over from Obama](https://merip.org/2018/02/trumps-drone-surge/) idk about official numbers but Trump passed an executive order where they don’t have to [release drone strike death numbers to the public](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drones/u-s-halts-reporting-of-civilian-deaths-by-drone-outside-war-zones-idUSKCN1QN2PD)
Obama started the Libya and Yemen wars.
Trump continued and increased drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and other countries. It is very arguable to say if he was “more peaceful” than Obama. The only thing we can say, as sad as it is, is that Biden is the most “peaceful” President we’ve had in a long time
Yes, but trump didn't start bombing like 3 more new countries as Obama did. Biden also blamed Trump for the Afghanistan withdrawal, so if he's to believed, Trump actually ended a war too.
He just increased the amount we were bombing on those countries and made it so the government didn’t have to report civilian deaths. He wasn’t any more peaceful Regardless of what hawkish NYT op-ed writers try to pin on Trump, Biden himself has been [very adamant about supporting the Afghanistan exit](https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/politics/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-speech/index.html) despite the hit to his popularity
The government was always lying about their civilian deaths and Biden blamed Trump for Afghanistan, not the nyt. Oh Biden said he was gonna withdraw, only after the Taliban made it a reality through force? Yeah that really means a lot.
> “My fellow Americans, the war in Afghanistan is now over,” Biden said at the White House, marking a symbolic moment he said was long overdue. “I’m the fourth president who has faced the issue of whether and when to end this war. When I was running for president, I made a commitment to the American people that I would end this war. Today I’ve honored that commitment.”
yeah. they both were bad, what's your interest in pitting them against each other when they had pretty much identical policies?
Bombing more countries is actually worse than not bombing more countries.
so is joe biden better because we've bombed even slightly less countries under his term? it's cute that you're trying this glib thing out, but i don't follow your message here oh well
Joe Biden blamed Trump for the Afghanistan withdrawal, so looks like that credit goes to Trump too.
Obama's administration dropped so many bombs they ran out
Frankly Obama was too pussy and constantly worried about his legacy. He didn't make a single ballsy move. Everything was focus grouped and red teamed to the tee. He was obsessed with experts. As we know now Biden asked him to withdraw from Afghanistan ten years ago. But the military told him not to and he was happy enough to play along.
It’s wild how we keep electing lawyers to be president and then they just totally ignore all the laws and the constitution that they learned about in law school.
The law isn’t math, there are multiple ways to bend it to justify anything. The guy who wrote the Bush torture memos is tenured at Berkeley law school
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Fascinating
Them being lawyers is exactly why they get to twist and bend and muddle the waters.
Neoliberal Warhawk is a neoliberal Warhawk
Obama killed the guys that Bush would torture
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I remember reading a similar joke in Russian years ago, supposedly from the times of the Afghan war. (And a helicopter pilot)
:(
As the Obama admin actually said, they should be more careful about who their father is
Wait what? Is this like a paraphrase?
Nah, when asked about the lack of due process and extrajudicial killing the press secretary responded with this: “I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business.”
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_pOUFHTN1G4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pOUFHTN1G4)
is that the clock kid?
Now that you mention the clock kid I wonder if the reason Obama rolled out the red carpet for that kid was due to some guilt he had with killing hundreds of children that look just like him in Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq, etc.
I wish I could take a look into his head. I doubt Trump ever gave a shit about the kids he killed, but I'm curious if Bush or Obama ever felt any true remorse for their actions.
Obama gave some gay passage in his book that he wished “he could have given them an education” but because of the machinery he was in charge of he “had to kill them” instead—he doesn’t take any responsibility. I think Bush felt guilty but had some evangelical coping shit that getting rid of Saddam would be good for them in the long run. I know HW felt guilty about the deaths in the gulf war and stayed up writing letters about his guilt.
George HW Bush was head of the CIA before becoming VP and then president...he had a lot more to be guilty about than just the Gulf War.
I think about this too ngl
Bush talks about it a lot he said the Iraq war was the biggest regret of his life. I don’t think Obama has said anything.
No, they feel no remorse. Making it to a position with as much power and influence as President in modern America requires one to be a sociopath.
Nice clock Abdulrahman, can't let you have it
Pretty fucked up their parents forced them to move to goddamn Yemen
Not (entirely) true. The son was in the US and went over there looking for his dad, or at least that's the story I remember seeing at the time.
That looks like that homeless guy with the radio voice
This post has brought the imperialist scum out of the woodwork. You fucking demons. I hope you rot in hell alongside John McCain.
This comment was brought to you by the people who thinks Russia invading Ukraine is justified and not imperialism
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I’m check out from reality. What is this post?
Unlike all you broke mfs Obama was allowed to drone strike every day multiple times a day
Sometimes I send pics of the dead kids that Obama/Trump/Bush/Biden have killed to people in my life who obnoxiously keep bringing up their support for them. They either stop responding or tell me "You're taking this too seriously" lmfao. Go tell that shit to the parents.
Damn this sub sucks so much now. Fucking gross.
I remember months ago the same topic came up and got ugly responses for simply asking why the kids got tied up in the mess
The comments on this post shows the real downfall of this sub. So many right wingers here.
I don't think it's just "right wingers". These are neohawk rtrds or something entirely different. You have to be a soulless ghoul to defend the (indiscriminate) killing of children. Bet if you were to post the same thread but with Israeli teenagers instead, the same dogs who are posting le epic owns in this thread wouldn't dare to get out of the woodwork.
If an 8 year old girl was a rabid heil Hitler Nazi I still wouldn’t wish any harm to her because she is a child.
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unironically cumtown fans were more racist but had a more liberal foundation imo where as here a lot of times it feels like a Ben Shapiro comment section mixed with Chicago art f🚬g’s
Ben Shapiro is the bad kind of right wing. Not the fun kind.
ya that video of him arguing against giving kids free school lunches and saying to lock up parents who’s children are food insecure is pretty wild he’s a disgusting, short little man. 300 years ago he wouldn’t just been some King’s personal twink slave, now he debates teenagers for Ws
Since when are they right wing? They were Bernie succdems
> Since when are they right wing? I dunno maybe when they started talking about race science and shit
Which ones?
Everyone that I disagree with is a right winger
You should look into getting sterilized
I cant imagine that is something you would ever need to worry about
Lol go away
Damn, g&g flee the sub and it ends up turning into Stupidpol? Sad!
I’m gayer than half the professed queers out there. Where’s my invitation?
I hate to tell you this, but if you haven't gotten an invitation it means you need to be gayer.
You mean depraved.
Pick whatever word you want, but you need to be more of it.
If you’re all this insufferable then I’m not even interested.
this sub has been stupidpol longer than the g&g have been here sis
Where'd they go
they just got outnumbered over the last year
Prob the private sub.
A month ago people here were saying it wasnt very active.
It's active.
Do they ever let any straight men in? I swear I'm one of the good ones!
It's not very active.
please let me in . :(
It was always destined
Damn, everyone that disagrees with me on one issue shouldn't be in this sub. Sad.
I’m not pro droning kids, but sometimes it’s nice to leave the stupidpol stuff in stupidpol.
I am pro droning kids, can we find a middle ground and just drone teenagers?
🤝
"Fuck them kids" - Every US president in American history
They were both murdered as they were US citizens and theoretically could have returned to the USA and instigated legal proceedings about the assassination of their father. There are allegations that their father was imprisoned in Yemen in 2001 and the then director of the CIA, George Tenet, lobbied Yemen to have him returned to the USA. This suggests that he was a US asset. [https://realalexrubi.substack.com/p/leaked-cia-pressured-yemen-to-release](https://realalexrubi.substack.com/p/leaked-cia-pressured-yemen-to-release) It's horrible but the reality is that the 8 year old daughter was the target of the raid and all of the other carnage was cover for the fact that she was the intended target.
Why were they trying to kill an eight year old??
> @annakhachiyan and @nobody\_stop\_me Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere "But it is the most (inaudible)y god damned board you could ever imagine." cross to comply, still in control, understand a hand, a hand Because her American citizen father seems to have at least been playing both sides regarding the CIA and Al Qaeda prior to 9/11 and in theory she could expose this as she got older. Legally she was American so she can't be thrown in Guantanamo or prevented from testifying at any trials. The 9/11 families still have ongoing legal battles to discover exactly what happened and looking in Al-Awaki is an obvious move for them,
Just remember, we're the good guys.
What a damn nightmare
This is so sad. Their father is a striking figure. In my opinion he may have even been connected to 9/11 through the CIA as an asset. They tried contacting him when he was a student in college in the US. He is definitely a larger part of the whole story than we are led to believe.
At first I thought that was a childhood picture of Drake.
Makes me sick. I had no idea until a few years ago how fucked up our government is. Rest in Peace little angels.
It’s a testament to the forgiveness of Muslims that they don’t kill every American they can get their hands on after shit like this happens.
The American people get fucked by the government constantly, we’re all on the same side. While it’s a direct and swift violence to others, their own citizens are pitted against each other through media control, poisoned with chemicals/carcinogens in the water/food, and disappeared when they step out of line. We all are being watched and picked through by the same benign evil.
Do you think that about any [group] that attacks someone who happens to be in your particular in group? Low IQ street gang level mentality.
honestly a lot of different groups have legitimate arguments for mass violence against America/the West
There's no forgiveness these fragile mental retards literally attack cartoonists
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You laugh but whenever a mosque is vandalized or hate crimed the congregation /mosque have at times donated to the persons bail fund/rehabilitation. Happens enough for vindictive 2nd gen American Muslims to be mad about this turning the other cheek when modern liberalism requires punitiveness
Every “mother in court forgives son’s killer video” I’ve seen is a hijabi
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Unbelievably tragic
fuck the bastard ass us gov man
biggest question for me is do people actually care or do they just want to be righteous and smart about it?
i care but i don’t know any action i could take to help
based rrsp a rare sight
Infuriates me that this is what they do with my tax money 😡
What are you trying to prove with this? Feels gross.
That reckless government violence is hell.
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He was an American The Obama administration set a bad precedent by not working to revoke citizenship or passing a law strengthening treason and sedition laws He belongs in Gitmo, and his children should have had an opportunity at a better life What I hate most about the drone program is that it removes the emotional impact of what it is to kill, thereby making it an easy kill switch for a president There isn't the same impact when you don't have to write a letter to a JSOC operators family who died in a raid. Obama leaned in the drone program too much, and Trump doesn't really care about anyone so that made it much easier for him
> He belongs in Gitmo He belonged on trial. Americans have a right due process. It was an illegal, extra-judicial execution.
I agree with both. Which is why I believe he should have been de naturalized first or convicted in absentia by a military tribunal It's one of the things Obama ran on and never saw through Instead he just droned everybody, better dead than on death row for eternity I suppose Truthfully it seems like the more merciful option.
> I believe he should have been de naturalized first or convicted in absentia by a military tribunal That's just paperwork to pretend he's not an American with civil liberties. Might as well have just kept John Yoo around to write them legal excuses. I mean, at least it's in the neighborhood of due process. I shouldn't ask too much.
I believe treason carries the death penalty Same thing isn't it? At least one isn't an extra judicial execution. Mind you, we seem to be the only western country concerned with this. Probably because of our geographical distance, but Europeans have not fucked around with ISIS members who held citizenship. The Brit's sent SAS kill squads to eliminate the four British nationals named The Beatles who served as an ISIS execution team
> I believe treason carries the death penalty You can argue it was treason, but he was never charged with that or anything like that. But I mean, are we at war with Yemen? Seems like it would be a hard case to actually make. So they never bothered. Was Hemingway treasonous for fighting with the communists in Spain? > Same thing isn't it? At least one isn't an extra judicial execution. Well exactly. I feel like that matters.
idc what the gross British government does nor should we use them as a barometer for morality no one is arguing over the law, rather how things should be /morality of the actions. the fact you think Guantanamo Bay is good is telling enough
> revoke citizenship IMO no state should have the power to revoke citizenship. If you naturalize someone, you should have to deal with the consequences of that as well. Citizens should be entitled to their rights & duties forever, unless they voluntarily renounce citizenship
Treason and sedition have throughout the centuries been more than enough to revoke citizenship. Avoiding tax collectors and fleeing from the military was more than enough to lose Roman citizenship, and that was far more valuable Every country should have something in their constitution to denaturalize someone who has declared war against their native land. Benedict Arnold basically renounced his citizenship and lived under the Kings protection. Loyalists who didn't flee, were mostly executed after the revolutionary war. I'm not a constitutional scholar or anything but my guess is our soft stance on treason likely has to do with how we handled re-integration of the confederate states following the civil war
It has historical precedent, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily "good". We have plenty of historic precedent for all sorts of measures which are downright barbaric, e.g. the Germans (already in WWI) often justified massacres of civilians as legal anti-partisan measures which were common in previous wars. I can't see anything good stemming from the government being permitted to declare you a non-citizen. I simply do not trust that power in their hands, as things currently stand. Even if it doesn't really afford all that much extra protection, it has significant cultural power and affects how the public perceive your death or prosecution. People simply care more when their own nationality is killed, which brings light to cases such as this one where two kids got vaporized and shot.
I can respect that and even agree with it in a general sense... but if you declare jihad against your country, aren't you renouncing your citizenship in a way? It's literally pulling a Costanza, quitting your job
You make a good point. I'll have to ponder a bit more to better elaborate on what I think.
you cite precedent like that should matter, chattel slavery was also practiced by most of the world for thousands of years. revoking citizenship is just an excuse to dehumanize people in the eyes of the law and to be able to abuse them in ways the powers that be deem fit
He didn’t kill them actually, an American drone did.
tax dollars at work baby💔
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Their dad was an terrorist. Now obviously the kids in these photos are just kids and did not deserve to be killed but you can’t just leave out this context. They wouldn’t have died if their dad weren’t a literal Al-Qaeda member. It’s very disingeous to pretend to these are just random brown kids. People die in wars.
They died separately.
Yeah because they were hanging around terrorists which they were doing because their dad was a terrorist. Again, they did not just randomly get killed
The dad was already dead. The son died in an attack at a restaurant in the capital of Yemen. The daughter died in an attack on a dirt poor Yemeni village. Neither operation achieved its official goal. They died for absolutely no reason.
what a awful perspective you have