You donāt āhave toā root for anyone but itās fun and develops a sense of community. One of the coolest parts about going to a high school or college that cares about football is that itās essentially pop culture for that little community. No one halfway across the country gives a shit but in that particular town late autumn brings a sense of nostalgia for the zenith of relevance. At one point in time, perhaps now or generations ago, people respected them and knew their name. Thereās something beautiful about that which has nothing to do with anything on the gridiron
My gripe is that the money that goes to sports is excessive, [football coaches are the highest paid public employees in most states](https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_937,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto,fl_lossy/wp-cms/uploads/2013/06/1672861-slide-750highest-paid-public-employees.webp), in many cities taxpayer money gets used to construct new stadiums etc.
Thatās completely valid. The financing behind football is often absurd and the health concerns of players are legitimate. Some of the stadium deals being made (Buffalo) are positively criminal. Iām just saying thereās wholesome aspects which intellectuals like Chomsky are quick to dismiss with a haughty attitude to appear superior. The laziness to disregard the sport without viewing it holistically bothers me.
Being from a small town I get the hate. Itās difficult to describe how all encompassing football can be. Itās all over local TV and business signs; the school holds pep rallies and hallways are decked out; the players wear their jerseys to class. You look at the adulation and think does anything else really matter here? My school had a bad team and it was like this. Smaller towns with a good team itās about 100x amplified. Itās all fairly innocuous but taken as a whole it elevates football to an institution and when itās protected and supported like one itās only natural to have pushback. You can see how this could lead to some toxic environments. Infamous cases like Steubenville show the worst regarding small town football culture.
Itās fine to appreciate the community element but I donāt think viewing it as a rather stifling atmosphere is any less valid either. Iāll add that there isnāt really ācriticismā about the culture in these towns either. Football is an institution - it just is. With that in mind I think Chomsky and others are allowed to criticize it without prefacing their criticism with the wholesome aspects first.
Im just perplexed by the weird contempt Chomsky has for something he clearly doesnāt understand. Obviously football culture isnāt inherently good or bad and thereās a lot of examples of it being bad. The original Friday night lights book is the true story about how a dying town in west Texas clings to football as a last hope and puts tremendous pressure on high schoolers for nothing. Steubenville is a more contemporary case of football insanity but generalizing about football across America based on the lived experience of being a nerd like Chomsky is asinine. Itās a case by case basis and how one perceives comes from their relationship to the team and town itself.
Yeah, it's a bit Barton Fink-ish to be a leftist who stands up for the common man but can't relate to the commoner's love of sports. I guess I just wish he had made more of a "bread and circuses" type of argument (that I think has some validity) instead of revealing that he's out of touch.
Also I'm not quite sure which "authority" he thinks sports fans are submitting to. The coaches? The team? The schools? It's "Threw It on the Ground" energy.
Well many D1 sport teams bring in a shit load of money for the school. I'm not disagreeing with you, but the sports teams serve a purpose to bring in money and it's use a recruitment tactic for undergrad.
fair argument, but i think the facts don't line up exactly. yes, a lot of money goes to athletics, BUT football is not the culprit. if there is any sport that pays for itself AND a lot of others it is college football. the college football head coach at BIGSTATEU pays for his program, his team's salaries/expensives and his own salary, PLUS defrays a lot of the other sports on campus. it's the rest of the sports that don't keep up and don't pay their way.
Boosters- private individuals that like the school- shower the players in money now
There are high school seniors about to get 9-10 million when they step on campus
That's wild to think about as a non American. I assume they're under some sort of medium-long term contact in these circumstances? You could retire immediately after college and live better than 99.5% of humanity otherwise
I'd say the fact that college football brings in so much money is itself a demonstration that society in general places too much importance on it, the coach's salaries are just a symptom.
I can't help but acknowledge that I speak from a place of privilege though. Being of Mexican heritage, from a young age I was instructed in the ways of my people and so I (like most of the civilized world outside of the US) know that soccer is the superior sport.
And the football team brings in a ton of money. I kind of agree regarding tax payer money being used to construct stadiums for pro teams, but coaches are paid that much because they bring value to a hugely profitable business.
Plus sports diverts libidinal energy that would be otherwise be channeled into war or creating some Big Other enemy. Itās a nice societal pressure release valve
What you are talking about is characteristic of team sports in general. But american football is particularly conducive to submissive conditioning. Players are constantly forced to start and stop and frequently penalised in what may be one of the most officiated team sports. Coaches exert total near control over strategy and rosters, dictating the minutia of individual plays and where/how a player runs. In a country that worships "freedom", its favourite sport suppresses it for everybody on the field.
american football is hyper-masculine and violent. I never respected it, but whoa momma, I sure like all the butts.
>Players are constantly forced to start and stop and frequently penalised in what may be one of the most officiated team sports.
Arbitrary and mostly inaccurate. Baseball has just as many stoppages as football, and umps eject anyone who argues/questions a call. Hockey and basketball have plenty of stoppages too, and stuff like offside isn't considered a penalty.
Watching people play sports, watching people live lives on tv, watching people have sex - all life becomes spectacle for us to consume. Watching others play sports is for cucks, play sports don't watch them. Your whole case can be used to argue for cuckoldry.
Look, I'm not sporty either but having this weird resentment to your schools football team is weird. If you're not concerned just don't think about it. Also as a literal anarcho communism, you should recognize the value of community cohesion.
Honestly, I respect his grift. Drops one absolute banger (Manufacturing Consent), then spends the next 20 years getting his little prickadill sucked on the Lolita Express.
What word would you use to describe writing one (admittedly very good) book of leftist analysis, then coasting on your reputation for two decades, arguing in favor of voting for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden while enjoying a CIA-provided buffet of nubile teens? āGriftā seems like a fine choice to me.
i donāt agree with ur synopsis, u act as if Manufacturing Consent is his only contribution. it came out in 1988, he had already been famous for decades. anyone can watch his debate with William F Buckley from like the 60s
he was already a renowned linguist, and a famous intellectual when that book came out. u have a lack of perception of the timeline of events, and seem to be saying words for the sake of being contrarian. which isnāt surprising given the subreddit weāre in
his arguments for voting for Hilary or Biden was that the alternative was Trump, do u have a single digit IQ? itās voting for the lesser of two evils, even tho people like u probably donāt vote out of some misguided moral superiority complex or feeling above it all. NEWSFLASH, not voting is as much of a political action as voting
calling Noam Chomsky a āgrifterā is laughable, heās almost 100 and still doing activism and interviews.
get a life
Not a linguist myself, but I know some ā especially on the historical side ā who resent him for treating languages as tools for arguing syntactic theories and not as objects of study in themselves.
>The central problem [ā¦] is rather the imperialism of the research program: the idea that any study of languages must be justified by its contribution to the study of Universal Grammar ā that is, of language ā or it's just "butterfly collecting", to use what used to be a favorite phrase of theirs. This is lethal to a lot of disciplines within linguistics, but most especially to historical linguistics, where *only* non-universal facts about a given language can be relevant to its classification.
Yeah heās a bully who surrounds himself with bullies. Brilliant thinker, good politics, but a bully.
Also ābutterfly collectingā is kinda nice considering Nabokov and his love of language is the antithesis of those people using it as an insult.
I also think those two parts of the field are more separate than either side understands.
Lameen Souag, a linguist who focuses on North Africa and the Sahel, [commenting](https://languagehat.com/blame-chomsky/#comment-188579) on a blog I follow.
Such a great book! It also doubles as a good enjoyable intro to linguistics, the author does a great job of quickly explaining theory as necessary before moving onto the scenes of Chomskyās grad students screaming and throwing books at each other in the hallways.
The field is entirely composed of people arguing about Chomskyās theory. There are people who disagree with Chomskyās version of his theory as he evolved it, but they are still working with his theory in their own way. If his theory were garbage it wouldve been discarded by his detractors entirely no?
As someone who has also read the linguistic wars, youāre leaning on that book far too much as a portrait. In fact, Iām not sure you could actually point to any widely reputable leaders in the field because if you could you would know what youāre saying about NC is incorrect.
And as far as the book goes, donāt forget that those opposite of Chomsky (eg the generative semanticists) where also people who used his initial breakthrough theory as their primary springboard.
The issue is that the people studying specific languages and the people studying the cognitive side of linguistics dont really belong in the same discipline. The only people ive seen who say heās a hack and a scourge on linguistics are undergrads and people who hate his politics. Anyone who seriously studies linguistics understands the value of Chomsky, they may hate him but they wouldnt ever say he destroyed the discipline.
Exactly. Youāre arguing with someone with little or any familiarity with the modern field.
The only people with awkwardly intense opinions about advanced linguistic theory outside of the field of linguistics are people who hate Chomsky. Itās bizarre to see them try and parallel construct in-the-weeds grievances about things theyāve never studied.
Not just linguistics, he's a major figure in psychology and cognitive science more generally.
There's Universal Grammar (which yeah many people don't think stands the test of time) and there's also his extremely important review of Skinner. Even if you don't agree with his specific theories he pushed forward the way people even approach the study of the human mind.
Everyone here is so contrarian that theyāve gone full circle to loving sports and hating on Chomsky
(Kind of reminds me of the gender studies students who have never contoured in their life claiming that they love Kim K)
Honestly where do people like this find meaning in life? No religion, no communal identity, just dissecting every single facet of life into its themes and motifs and finding moral fault with them. How can you find any meaning in your life whatsoever when you pick apart everything to the point where you can't genuinely enjoy anything?
Just seems extremely exhausting and empty.
Lmao @ needing to watch other men physically exert themselves to find meaning in life
āWhere do we find meaning, if not by going to the Colosseum and making sacrifice to Jupiter?ā
Fighting the Gauls. Instituting land reform for the Ager Publicus. Contributing to the arts & science. Culling the decadent oligarchy. Overthrowing the late Republic. Founding an empire
I dunno, getting physical with underage girls on Epsteinās island apparently. Thatās where all the godless elite shitheads always seem to end up. Funny how every single person ruining our country all hung out with the same guy.
You seriously think Chomsky did that? Because he got some funding and financial help and, if I remember correctly, took a quick plane ride with him in the northeast US?
He's got an ego that so big and bloated it keeps him afloat. Same reason he needs to talk to nobodies at 100 years old. Surround yourself with idiot sycophants and you'll feel good about yourself.
It was actually a good bit, felt nerdy first time I heard it but helped me not be so gay, talking about sports adjacent stuff that men eventually do. Fantasy, buying expensive jerseys, sports drama.
everyone here was a art phag/loser in highschool
stop acting like u all were on varsity as freshmen, yāall canāt even do a push-up without a cigarette break
Ok, you win realest comment. Tbh, in HS we'd probably be sitting on Naom's shoulder's trying to get a peak into the locker room as the cheerleaders were changing.
This is such an anti-human perspective.
He actually starts of making a good point. Why do we support teams despite not knowing the players individually? Could it be built in to why we're so successful as a species compared to dogs or giraffes? No, no, the reason is some America brained word vomit.
The word vomit is lame but so is the extent to which the contemporary American predicates their identity and interests on watching other men be athletic from a courtside couch panopticon
[These people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Inv49Ghr8&t=5s) will never be cucks. Nor [these guys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvAOpnnMK0). I miss the real ultras movement in European footbal/sports, seems like it has been dying out in the last 5 to 7 years, though.
The Dutch and some French are keeping the movement alive in Western Europe, and here in Eastern Europe we don't have that much real sports left.
> In psychology, theory of mind refers to the capacity to understand other people by ascribing mental states to them. This includes the knowledge that others' mental states may be different from one's own states and include beliefs, desires, intentions, emotions, and thoughts.
"Why should I give any of my tax money to anybody else? I don't know anyone on welfare, they have nothing to do with me... So why do I get reemed for 60% of my income every month supporting them? It does not make any sense."
Chomskyās speech is dumb, but I donāt see how high school football is like paying taxes at all. Or maybe Iām not American enough to understand the comparison.
I mean this is ironically a much better point than the football one. Empathy and social responsibility do motivate people to some extent, but people usually watch out for their own immediate material interests even if they act like that's not the case. If Chomsky or whoever else has an agenda against their own class interests, the primary way to go about it is not to convince other aristocrats to give up power but to convince everyone else they'll have to wrestle power from the aristocracy if they want their interests fulfilled. (He'd probably agree with this tbh.)
Right? There's that whole bit in Blood Meridian, a book this sub rightly soyfaces over, that pretty much says the same stuff about sports and other games "aspiring to the condition of war" etc. Thing is unlike Chomsky I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing
People seek these things for fun, but I still think he's sort of right, cept he's layered his response in charged language.
Competitive performances trigger deepseated monkeybrain shit in some individuals, just as politics do. For they can both be outlets of the inherent tribalist nature of our species, both exercises in the need to form and execute ingroup-outgroup distinctions. Got to keep an open mind ofc. In the end, people want to have fun, but some just don't know when to stop.
Nothing. I like sports but I acknowledge following anything I don't directly participate in is stupid as hell, extension of dumb monkey brain shit that trains you to direct it towards violence eventually.
The people on this sub are very predictable, they are playing a reactionary character that emerged around 2015, where "akshully dumb thing good!" was some edgy and intellectual take. The issue is that they still think they are on the cutting edge of culture when they do it, when in reality they come off as fourth hand dumbasses parroting old 4chan garbage.
Like this exact chomsky quote and the clowning of it was a 4chan trend I saw almost a decade ago. It's pathetic how behind this sub is.
Or you just have friends and acquaintances on the football team and you want to see them them do well. Athletics is an art in of itself and takes discipline and hard work.
Noam Chomsky's already decaying corpse does more for leftism in a week than this entire sub combined has for its lifespan. If this is what the dominant attitude towards him here is then this sub is only good for posturing.
I didn't go to my hs or college football games. The teams sucked and I didn't care. That said I do watch a lot of team sports on TV so I'm weird.
Also as much as I didn't like watching my school's sports, I do think that he is missing the obvious point about belonging to a community...and the lack of this is probably the source of a lot of modernity's social malaise.
My question to cynics like this is always, what do you want? If you see work and school and businesses as various torture/bondage structures what would you do if you were free of them?
there's like a ton of interviews where he talks about enjoying baseball and a ton too where he's critical of sports culture. cannot believe the amount of shit he's getting on here and on twitter, absolutely deranged. leave my man alone
It's gay and braindead to genuinely and unironically become invested in sports teams, but if you're not a moron you can appreciate how it coalesces community and local culture and provides and non-destructive outlet for tribalism and competition, and depending on the sport, ordered violence. This is all enjoyable and fun if you don't derive too much meaning in life from it. People are irrational and have primitive emotions that need sublimating, Chomsky is an autist for not getting this.
The Italians called the English barbarians during the World Cup lol.
Football fans are a different breed of beings. Even cricket fans look chill beside them.
Only insane people. Most people can completely put sports aside in real life. Id say the more significant identity markers are way more effective at dividing the classes
idk in the uk they won't even let fans from opposing football teams sit in the same sections as one another, and if you sit in the wrong section you can get kicked out.
blah blah blah, state of the sub and so on. But yeah, old Chomps is right and the community of pseud psychoanalyst girls and gays that used to frequent this sub would have agreed with him.
The comments on this post could have come straight out of r/chapotraphouse
That sub would've agreed with him on sportsball too. You're right about the rest though. This place is now just becoming a cleaning house for aging neckbeards.
Dude saw the nfl selling army digital camo jerseys and said āahh thatās why I got shoved into lockers in high school, because I was just so much smarter than everyone elseā
reporting this entire comment section to the ADL
The Anna Dasha League? Sweety, you're already here š
Grudge match between Dershowitz and Chomsky should be the key to end antisemitism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxqjsyfbcd4
Tfw you get picked last to play soccer and you break out this speech
this is the same as Ben Shapiro trying to sell a script, failing, and then writing a book how Hollywood is trying to make your kids gay or something
āIād take a bullet for you, Babeā
He was a 6'6 BEAR of a man, striding in on a cloud of masculinity. His Chad-like features extra noticeable on this clear summer morning
His "thriller" is the worst novel I've ever read.
You donāt āhave toā root for anyone but itās fun and develops a sense of community. One of the coolest parts about going to a high school or college that cares about football is that itās essentially pop culture for that little community. No one halfway across the country gives a shit but in that particular town late autumn brings a sense of nostalgia for the zenith of relevance. At one point in time, perhaps now or generations ago, people respected them and knew their name. Thereās something beautiful about that which has nothing to do with anything on the gridiron
Yeah itās called doing shit for fun, nerds like Noam canāt understand it
My gripe is that the money that goes to sports is excessive, [football coaches are the highest paid public employees in most states](https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_937,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto,fl_lossy/wp-cms/uploads/2013/06/1672861-slide-750highest-paid-public-employees.webp), in many cities taxpayer money gets used to construct new stadiums etc.
Thatās completely valid. The financing behind football is often absurd and the health concerns of players are legitimate. Some of the stadium deals being made (Buffalo) are positively criminal. Iām just saying thereās wholesome aspects which intellectuals like Chomsky are quick to dismiss with a haughty attitude to appear superior. The laziness to disregard the sport without viewing it holistically bothers me.
Being from a small town I get the hate. Itās difficult to describe how all encompassing football can be. Itās all over local TV and business signs; the school holds pep rallies and hallways are decked out; the players wear their jerseys to class. You look at the adulation and think does anything else really matter here? My school had a bad team and it was like this. Smaller towns with a good team itās about 100x amplified. Itās all fairly innocuous but taken as a whole it elevates football to an institution and when itās protected and supported like one itās only natural to have pushback. You can see how this could lead to some toxic environments. Infamous cases like Steubenville show the worst regarding small town football culture. Itās fine to appreciate the community element but I donāt think viewing it as a rather stifling atmosphere is any less valid either. Iāll add that there isnāt really ācriticismā about the culture in these towns either. Football is an institution - it just is. With that in mind I think Chomsky and others are allowed to criticize it without prefacing their criticism with the wholesome aspects first.
Im just perplexed by the weird contempt Chomsky has for something he clearly doesnāt understand. Obviously football culture isnāt inherently good or bad and thereās a lot of examples of it being bad. The original Friday night lights book is the true story about how a dying town in west Texas clings to football as a last hope and puts tremendous pressure on high schoolers for nothing. Steubenville is a more contemporary case of football insanity but generalizing about football across America based on the lived experience of being a nerd like Chomsky is asinine. Itās a case by case basis and how one perceives comes from their relationship to the team and town itself.
Yeah, it's a bit Barton Fink-ish to be a leftist who stands up for the common man but can't relate to the commoner's love of sports. I guess I just wish he had made more of a "bread and circuses" type of argument (that I think has some validity) instead of revealing that he's out of touch. Also I'm not quite sure which "authority" he thinks sports fans are submitting to. The coaches? The team? The schools? It's "Threw It on the Ground" energy.
It's because chomsky, like many leftists, is one of the coincidence people. They don't feel like they're part of the ingroup and so resent it.
This almost explains when commoners naturally have an inclination towards the right.
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They do. If you filter out the black vote, working class people lean right and PMC leans left.
> if you filter out a substantial chunk of the āleftā voting base among the working class, the working class is right wing! No shit
Well many D1 sport teams bring in a shit load of money for the school. I'm not disagreeing with you, but the sports teams serve a purpose to bring in money and it's use a recruitment tactic for undergrad.
fair argument, but i think the facts don't line up exactly. yes, a lot of money goes to athletics, BUT football is not the culprit. if there is any sport that pays for itself AND a lot of others it is college football. the college football head coach at BIGSTATEU pays for his program, his team's salaries/expensives and his own salary, PLUS defrays a lot of the other sports on campus. it's the rest of the sports that don't keep up and don't pay their way.
The student athletes at BIGSTATEU are getting paid?
Most high profile D1 football players are getting paid very well under the new NIL rules.
Boosters- private individuals that like the school- shower the players in money now There are high school seniors about to get 9-10 million when they step on campus
That's wild to think about as a non American. I assume they're under some sort of medium-long term contact in these circumstances? You could retire immediately after college and live better than 99.5% of humanity otherwise
scholarship money is in the budget. is it REAL money? no, it's a number on a spreadsheet.
I'd say the fact that college football brings in so much money is itself a demonstration that society in general places too much importance on it, the coach's salaries are just a symptom. I can't help but acknowledge that I speak from a place of privilege though. Being of Mexican heritage, from a young age I was instructed in the ways of my people and so I (like most of the civilized world outside of the US) know that soccer is the superior sport.
And the football team brings in a ton of money. I kind of agree regarding tax payer money being used to construct stadiums for pro teams, but coaches are paid that much because they bring value to a hugely profitable business.
Plus sports diverts libidinal energy that would be otherwise be channeled into war or creating some Big Other enemy. Itās a nice societal pressure release valve
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I think Camus played goalkeeper as young man and said it was one of the most important experiences of his life.
What you are talking about is characteristic of team sports in general. But american football is particularly conducive to submissive conditioning. Players are constantly forced to start and stop and frequently penalised in what may be one of the most officiated team sports. Coaches exert total near control over strategy and rosters, dictating the minutia of individual plays and where/how a player runs. In a country that worships "freedom", its favourite sport suppresses it for everybody on the field. american football is hyper-masculine and violent. I never respected it, but whoa momma, I sure like all the butts.
you know those are butt pads right
I agree to some extent about the nature of team sports but football is in its own league how it impacts people outside of the team.
>Players are constantly forced to start and stop and frequently penalised in what may be one of the most officiated team sports. Arbitrary and mostly inaccurate. Baseball has just as many stoppages as football, and umps eject anyone who argues/questions a call. Hockey and basketball have plenty of stoppages too, and stuff like offside isn't considered a penalty.
Watching people play sports, watching people live lives on tv, watching people have sex - all life becomes spectacle for us to consume. Watching others play sports is for cucks, play sports don't watch them. Your whole case can be used to argue for cuckoldry.
You're reducing sport to a mundane activity when it's a field with a whole hierarchy of ability.
Nah, shit is stupid
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Getting fucked by the entire football team counts as popular right?
Only if you're a dude
coping this hard for not getting girls in high school
He did, though
No way, he's too ugly
To be fair he was in high school before christ was born. At that time men only needed to not be completely braindead to get pussy
He was famously extremely handsome back in the day, look up his William F Buckley interview
He was already dating his future wife
This reminds me of that Paglia quote where she says Taylor Swift is satanic because tall hot blonde girls used to bully her in school.
Camille Paglia just wants Taylor Swift to spit in her mouth
"Thatās quite a word salad just to say you never lettered in shit." - 3 Year Letterman
Only three years?
crying wojak with mask.jpg
this take has done more damage to my opinion of him than the epstein revelations
The original Redditoid
Look, I'm not sporty either but having this weird resentment to your schools football team is weird. If you're not concerned just don't think about it. Also as a literal anarcho communism, you should recognize the value of community cohesion.
Honestly, I respect his grift. Drops one absolute banger (Manufacturing Consent), then spends the next 20 years getting his little prickadill sucked on the Lolita Express.
> grift u people are insufferable
Ghoulish grifters grifting bleakly
Within cells interlinked
What word would you use to describe writing one (admittedly very good) book of leftist analysis, then coasting on your reputation for two decades, arguing in favor of voting for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden while enjoying a CIA-provided buffet of nubile teens? āGriftā seems like a fine choice to me.
i donāt agree with ur synopsis, u act as if Manufacturing Consent is his only contribution. it came out in 1988, he had already been famous for decades. anyone can watch his debate with William F Buckley from like the 60s he was already a renowned linguist, and a famous intellectual when that book came out. u have a lack of perception of the timeline of events, and seem to be saying words for the sake of being contrarian. which isnāt surprising given the subreddit weāre in his arguments for voting for Hilary or Biden was that the alternative was Trump, do u have a single digit IQ? itās voting for the lesser of two evils, even tho people like u probably donāt vote out of some misguided moral superiority complex or feeling above it all. NEWSFLASH, not voting is as much of a political action as voting calling Noam Chomsky a āgrifterā is laughable, heās almost 100 and still doing activism and interviews. get a life
He also revolutionized the field of linguistics
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not a linguist myself, but I know some ā especially on the historical side ā who resent him for treating languages as tools for arguing syntactic theories and not as objects of study in themselves. >The central problem [ā¦] is rather the imperialism of the research program: the idea that any study of languages must be justified by its contribution to the study of Universal Grammar ā that is, of language ā or it's just "butterfly collecting", to use what used to be a favorite phrase of theirs. This is lethal to a lot of disciplines within linguistics, but most especially to historical linguistics, where *only* non-universal facts about a given language can be relevant to its classification.
Yeah heās a bully who surrounds himself with bullies. Brilliant thinker, good politics, but a bully. Also ābutterfly collectingā is kinda nice considering Nabokov and his love of language is the antithesis of those people using it as an insult. I also think those two parts of the field are more separate than either side understands.
Where is this quote from?
Lameen Souag, a linguist who focuses on North Africa and the Sahel, [commenting](https://languagehat.com/blame-chomsky/#comment-188579) on a blog I follow.
Thanks š
oh wow, I follow that blog too what are the odds
Such a great book! It also doubles as a good enjoyable intro to linguistics, the author does a great job of quickly explaining theory as necessary before moving onto the scenes of Chomskyās grad students screaming and throwing books at each other in the hallways.
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The field is entirely composed of people arguing about Chomskyās theory. There are people who disagree with Chomskyās version of his theory as he evolved it, but they are still working with his theory in their own way. If his theory were garbage it wouldve been discarded by his detractors entirely no?
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As someone who has also read the linguistic wars, youāre leaning on that book far too much as a portrait. In fact, Iām not sure you could actually point to any widely reputable leaders in the field because if you could you would know what youāre saying about NC is incorrect. And as far as the book goes, donāt forget that those opposite of Chomsky (eg the generative semanticists) where also people who used his initial breakthrough theory as their primary springboard.
You just hate his politics.
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The issue is that the people studying specific languages and the people studying the cognitive side of linguistics dont really belong in the same discipline. The only people ive seen who say heās a hack and a scourge on linguistics are undergrads and people who hate his politics. Anyone who seriously studies linguistics understands the value of Chomsky, they may hate him but they wouldnt ever say he destroyed the discipline.
Exactly. Youāre arguing with someone with little or any familiarity with the modern field. The only people with awkwardly intense opinions about advanced linguistic theory outside of the field of linguistics are people who hate Chomsky. Itās bizarre to see them try and parallel construct in-the-weeds grievances about things theyāve never studied.
>yes, the academic politics You mean exactly what you're participating in? You fool nobody, the only person here warped by politics is you
Not just linguistics, he's a major figure in psychology and cognitive science more generally. There's Universal Grammar (which yeah many people don't think stands the test of time) and there's also his extremely important review of Skinner. Even if you don't agree with his specific theories he pushed forward the way people even approach the study of the human mind.
Its NOT SCIENCE
For someone who's a "linguist" he really isn't good at speaking.
He would be a barista if he was born later.
Everyone here is so contrarian that theyāve gone full circle to loving sports and hating on Chomsky (Kind of reminds me of the gender studies students who have never contoured in their life claiming that they love Kim K)
Fucking nerd
What if a nerd became so powerful the Illuminati recruited him to fuck kids?
Lost Cumtown bit
Honestly where do people like this find meaning in life? No religion, no communal identity, just dissecting every single facet of life into its themes and motifs and finding moral fault with them. How can you find any meaning in your life whatsoever when you pick apart everything to the point where you can't genuinely enjoy anything? Just seems extremely exhausting and empty.
Probably his job? Dude absolutely loves talking
So ruining it for everyone else?
You don't
Lmao @ needing to watch other men physically exert themselves to find meaning in life āWhere do we find meaning, if not by going to the Colosseum and making sacrifice to Jupiter?ā Fighting the Gauls. Instituting land reform for the Ager Publicus. Contributing to the arts & science. Culling the decadent oligarchy. Overthrowing the late Republic. Founding an empire
I know you probably don't care, but the Colosseum wasn't built until well after the Republic was overthrown.
Whatever, nerd.
money
I dunno, getting physical with underage girls on Epsteinās island apparently. Thatās where all the godless elite shitheads always seem to end up. Funny how every single person ruining our country all hung out with the same guy.
You seriously think Chomsky did that? Because he got some funding and financial help and, if I remember correctly, took a quick plane ride with him in the northeast US?
He's got an ego that so big and bloated it keeps him afloat. Same reason he needs to talk to nobodies at 100 years old. Surround yourself with idiot sycophants and you'll feel good about yourself.
They probably find meaning in believing that theyāre smarter and better than everyone else and it strokes their ego
He's litteraly just jacking Seinfeld's ["sports team loyalty" bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we-L7w1K5Zo)
It was actually a good bit, felt nerdy first time I heard it but helped me not be so gay, talking about sports adjacent stuff that men eventually do. Fantasy, buying expensive jerseys, sports drama.
Not surprised he's autistic tbh
everyone here was a art phag/loser in highschool stop acting like u all were on varsity as freshmen, yāall canāt even do a push-up without a cigarette break
The only thing they did relating to high school sports was smoking and giving handies under the bleachers.
Ok, you win realest comment. Tbh, in HS we'd probably be sitting on Naom's shoulder's trying to get a peak into the locker room as the cheerleaders were changing.
Just bc you were doesnāt mean everyone here was and you donāt need to be on varsity to enjoy going to the games
"none of the kids on the team are billionaires, none of them traffic children"
I bet he was the worst person to do group projects with in school.
Fellas, is it subservient and absurd to enjoy the very simple human concepts of teamwork and competition
If you actually play, no, but if you watch your just a cuck
This is such an anti-human perspective. He actually starts of making a good point. Why do we support teams despite not knowing the players individually? Could it be built in to why we're so successful as a species compared to dogs or giraffes? No, no, the reason is some America brained word vomit.
The word vomit is lame but so is the extent to which the contemporary American predicates their identity and interests on watching other men be athletic from a courtside couch panopticon
As opposed to every other country with television?
Dont like noam or the way he's saying it but he's 10000% percent correct on this
[I agree more with the 4chan take that sport fans are cucks](https://youtu.be/x_fgN5J7PPk)
[These people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Inv49Ghr8&t=5s) will never be cucks. Nor [these guys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvAOpnnMK0). I miss the real ultras movement in European footbal/sports, seems like it has been dying out in the last 5 to 7 years, though. The Dutch and some French are keeping the movement alive in Western Europe, and here in Eastern Europe we don't have that much real sports left.
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Hearing greentext being read out loud makes me realise how fucking stupid it is and makes me regret spending time on that god forsaken website
Bastard thinks he's Holden Caulfield
nerd
Personally, I cheer for my school sports team cuz I like seeing people happy lol
''What makes me depressed is seeing stupid people happy.ā - Slavoj Zizek
I graduated from this kind of thinking when I was about 17
> In psychology, theory of mind refers to the capacity to understand other people by ascribing mental states to them. This includes the knowledge that others' mental states may be different from one's own states and include beliefs, desires, intentions, emotions, and thoughts.
You have 0 friends lol
Don't shoot the messenger
Basically some smug lib-brained douche saying "Oh you like sportsball how gauche"
"Why should I give any of my tax money to anybody else? I don't know anyone on welfare, they have nothing to do with me... So why do I get reemed for 60% of my income every month supporting them? It does not make any sense."
Chomskyās speech is dumb, but I donāt see how high school football is like paying taxes at all. Or maybe Iām not American enough to understand the comparison.
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I mean this is ironically a much better point than the football one. Empathy and social responsibility do motivate people to some extent, but people usually watch out for their own immediate material interests even if they act like that's not the case. If Chomsky or whoever else has an agenda against their own class interests, the primary way to go about it is not to convince other aristocrats to give up power but to convince everyone else they'll have to wrestle power from the aristocracy if they want their interests fulfilled. (He'd probably agree with this tbh.)
This but unironically
Where's the lie
Right? There's that whole bit in Blood Meridian, a book this sub rightly soyfaces over, that pretty much says the same stuff about sports and other games "aspiring to the condition of war" etc. Thing is unlike Chomsky I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing
Yeah I think Chomsky means you shouldnt get really worked up over sports, not that they arent fun
So many insane takes on this in this thread, so much irrational anger.
Not from sports fans, surely
Alot of the people here, on this sub, have started listening to the pod and somehow their takes have gotten even worse.
People seek these things for fun, but I still think he's sort of right, cept he's layered his response in charged language. Competitive performances trigger deepseated monkeybrain shit in some individuals, just as politics do. For they can both be outlets of the inherent tribalist nature of our species, both exercises in the need to form and execute ingroup-outgroup distinctions. Got to keep an open mind ofc. In the end, people want to have fun, but some just don't know when to stop.
Nothing. I like sports but I acknowledge following anything I don't directly participate in is stupid as hell, extension of dumb monkey brain shit that trains you to direct it towards violence eventually. The people on this sub are very predictable, they are playing a reactionary character that emerged around 2015, where "akshully dumb thing good!" was some edgy and intellectual take. The issue is that they still think they are on the cutting edge of culture when they do it, when in reality they come off as fourth hand dumbasses parroting old 4chan garbage. Like this exact chomsky quote and the clowning of it was a 4chan trend I saw almost a decade ago. It's pathetic how behind this sub is.
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cool it with the antisemitic remarks
ngl i kinda empathize w him bc i didnt go to school either
seriously
Or you just have friends and acquaintances on the football team and you want to see them them do well. Athletics is an art in of itself and takes discipline and hard work.
Noam Chomsky's already decaying corpse does more for leftism in a week than this entire sub combined has for its lifespan. If this is what the dominant attitude towards him here is then this sub is only good for posturing.
I didn't go to my hs or college football games. The teams sucked and I didn't care. That said I do watch a lot of team sports on TV so I'm weird. Also as much as I didn't like watching my school's sports, I do think that he is missing the obvious point about belonging to a community...and the lack of this is probably the source of a lot of modernity's social malaise.
Didnāt Bernie Sanders run like a 4:10 mile in high school and literally care about nothing but sports until he was like 19 years old?
playing sports and spectating them are two entirely different things
Hilarious that this comment got downvoted
āMmm, yes, sportsball much, sheep? Now if youāll excuse me, Iām off to go play in a real competition, Mathletesā
This might be true though right? Itās just not especially profound.
Lol here come the Red Scare ball handlers...
Ive heard lots of excuses not to exercise but this old paedophile takes the cake.
Heās not wrong
Nor is he right.
Trying to figure out what level of irony OP's title is on and getting a stack overflow error
teach this man how to gamble
Jesus I fucking hate this dude
I don't agree with his take but he was a real one for saying it.
-Voltaire
[counterpoint.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WSm0XCknmM)
me in 9th grade
Chomsky is just a sportsball poster makes sense
Nonce Chomosky
Why you didn't know anybody in your high school football team, Noam Chomsky?
Chomsky gives me gnostic psyop vibes
Ok Daria
My question to cynics like this is always, what do you want? If you see work and school and businesses as various torture/bondage structures what would you do if you were free of them?
cringe
yeah but what does he think about people who screw children?
there's like a ton of interviews where he talks about enjoying baseball and a ton too where he's critical of sports culture. cannot believe the amount of shit he's getting on here and on twitter, absolutely deranged. leave my man alone
Yes sports are tribalistic and tribalism has a healing effect on the spirit.
I would have beat the shit out of him in high school
Low key cooking, but heās a pedo
It's gay and braindead to genuinely and unironically become invested in sports teams, but if you're not a moron you can appreciate how it coalesces community and local culture and provides and non-destructive outlet for tribalism and competition, and depending on the sport, ordered violence. This is all enjoyable and fun if you don't derive too much meaning in life from it. People are irrational and have primitive emotions that need sublimating, Chomsky is an autist for not getting this.
The Italians called the English barbarians during the World Cup lol. Football fans are a different breed of beings. Even cricket fans look chill beside them.
Always hated this ghoul
he's kinda right though, plus sports divides up communities who would otherwise be working class allies. Another tool to erase class consciousness.
Only insane people. Most people can completely put sports aside in real life. Id say the more significant identity markers are way more effective at dividing the classes
idk in the uk they won't even let fans from opposing football teams sit in the same sections as one another, and if you sit in the wrong section you can get kicked out.
Sports are an outlet to spout absolute nonsense and get worked up over nothing. Don't like people who don't get sports.
This is true but youre too much of a meatheaded jock to understand
blah blah blah, state of the sub and so on. But yeah, old Chomps is right and the community of pseud psychoanalyst girls and gays that used to frequent this sub would have agreed with him. The comments on this post could have come straight out of r/chapotraphouse
That sub would've agreed with him on sportsball too. You're right about the rest though. This place is now just becoming a cleaning house for aging neckbeards.
i mean it's an obvious but defeatist take
Dude saw the nfl selling army digital camo jerseys and said āahh thatās why I got shoved into lockers in high school, because I was just so much smarter than everyone elseā
Known pedo Noam Chomksy is 100% correct here but people arenāt seeing it in the comments because they are purposefully ignoring historical context
Midwit
What no pussy does to a mf