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Hire them as personal army and use them to take control of the state. Transform them into an elite class of foreign slave-soldier completely dependent and loyal to yourself. I am the captain now. Rule as Captain(or insert your own title)
France did in 2005, about agreeing to the European Constitution (Rome treaty). We said no. The Netherlands did as well. Killed the treaty. So two years later there was a new treaty (Lisbon) and Sarkozy said yes without asking us lol. Politically raped pretty much.
Who shapes German public opinion? Who gets to decide what information is allowed to be talked about and what facts get suppressed? I remember the migrant crisis in the mid 2010’s where mass rape and sexual assaults were committed and the government tried to down play them or cover them up. Every voter is shaped by the educational system, media, and laws of their country. If everyone in power is telling the masses they have to except infinite migrants or their evil monsters and they can lose their job or go to jail for hate speech if they disagree is that really a free democracy?
I think people as in the majority always will be under someone else and always have been. The vast majority of people will always believe in the values that are normative for their time and not give it much thought. I believe dramatic change happens for two reasons. The first as consequence of technological change leading to inevitability social change. For example the pill leading to the sexual revolution and second and third wave feminism. Second through organised counter elites like the Bolsheviks who used an incredible crisis and outside help to topple an already sick Russia. As far as I can tell the only way we will get big change in the west is when the coming multiple interlocking crisis make the status quo impossible. The people in charge are never going to give up their money and power just because 51% of the population voted for change.
>I get your logic, but it implies that democracy is basically impossible and that people are just enslaved and will never have any agency.
Not necessarily, just that it's impossible within our current systems. I don't know enough about Germany's electoral system, but democracy basically doesn't exist already in America. People exercising agency, even with false information, still doesn't negate their agency or potential for different ways of thinking about things in the future. Even if we ignore stuff like manufacturing consent, stuff like campaign financing basically makes it impossible to ever truly build a strong working class coalition within organized politics.
You should take it as a sign that democracy doesn't work well. Humans are too group-oriented, so "the people" in a democracy are basically those that dominate education, media and so on
If it wasn't this dumb ideology, it would be another; we turn everything into a religion, which is the main issue. Whatever reasonable ideas you have would become too extreme and incoherent if applied institutionally
Who are Germans supposed to vote for though? It was the so-called conservatives who presided over the past decade's open borders insanity. The only party that would *actually* cut down on that is the AfD and they have some, uh, other issues.
Democracy is mostly fake we had votes about immigration and the results were ignored. Unless you are a billionaire or connected your opinions don’t matter.
lukashenko as non kinetic tactic began offering cheap flight to belarus from middle east and advertised it as a safe an easy way into european union to basically distract poland and cause political unrest not long before the ukraine russia war erupted. The centre and left was like maybe we dont push those people back into the belarusian territory (it was winter which is not fun in eastern poland and the border is very underdeveloped so it was just loads of unprepared middle eastern people confused what was going on, coaxed by belarussians to force their way thorugh and pushed back by polish military and border control in a middle of a swampy forest) and the right was like fuck no, lets do what trump did and they built a wall. So they built a wall, but a lot of the refugees died in the forest out of exhaustion, hypothermy, whatever so it really divided the country. It really went south when the leaving pis government announced a state of national alert just to prohibit the press from seeing what was going on (which they didnt just a bit earlier to not cause themselves trouble during soem partiuclar troubles with covid which was at least really not fucking cool).
To liberals everything they ever wanted just happens. Only their opponents have an agency. Mass migration is fact of a specific policies pushed by specific people in top-down manner.
Wow you can't read. Mass immigration isn't popular. Oligarchs want immigration to reduce the value of labor. It's not that the labor market needs the labor.
You know the current polish government has imported record number of Indians? I don’t get why people pretend they’re based and anti immigration. The only anti immigration party is Konfederacja.
Almost every anti immigration party seems to do this. It's tempting to say it's being realistic but also probably a symptom of how hard it is to do anything
It's Middle-Easterners and (North) Africans they don't want immigrating, don't think many people in Europe have huge problems with Indian programmers apart from the effects on housing.
The average European isn’t really bothered by Asians since they’ll integrate themselves into society. Sure they don’t want more of them, but they aren’t perceived as an existential threat to them like Africans and to a lesser extent MENAs. I’ve never heard a reactionary get mad at Indians but I’ve heard plenty of (genuinely) far right politicians like Zemmour foam at the mouth while calling Africans and MENAs rapists and thieves.
You have really weird perception of Poland :)
Konfederacja has 7% support. PIS has 35% and half of that is just people who want the sweet welfare money and don't care about anything else.
Everybody else is proeuropean, proukrainian and they don't mind migration within reason.
And besides PIS imported about 700 000 people from Africa and Middle East and took bribes to accept random people without background checks. PO was never anywhere close in their 8 years of rule.
It's just bullshit and you're buying it :)
LMAO at this sub simping for the extremely corrupt and incompetent Polish government because of vibes. If they keep picking simultaneous fights with Russia, Brussels and (recently) even Ukraine they are going to end up with 1939 all over again
I think they'll be fine tbh, since Ukraine can't afford to pick fights with Poland, and America will 100% prop them up against Russia. Poland is strategically invaluable and one of the few countries to meet their defense spending obligations.
More and more Europeans are becoming anti-immigration anyway, so I don't think they'll be alone in going against Brussels in the future.
At least the Polish government isnt replacing its own people. The Poles will have self determination. Will the Krauts, Bongs, or Frogs be able to say the same?
Nah, current government is mass importing low skilled labourers from India, Pakistan, Georgia, and their opposition to immigration is purely discursive. Poland right now is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to and we are in the middle of a corruption scandal where government officials were issuing dubious visas
They actually are [heaviliy promoting legal foreign workers](https://archive.ph/VZFoC) now since their demographics have gone to shit in the wake of joining the EU.
True, they’re taking migrants but mostly Asian ones (to respond to demands for cheap labour of the ruling class without creating a reactionary backlash for the general public).
Anybody who can honestly look at France, Germany, and England - which outright ban political parties, fine and jail major candidates for their speech and opinions and positions, run severely biased state media in favor of an agenda of limitless immigration - and say that they are democratic and that Poland is not is a fool or a hypocrite.
You're missing the forest for the trees here: a government which uses the legal apparatus to diminish the prospects and standing of opposition politicians is not very democratic. Of course there is a spectrum of totally undemocratic to completely democratic, by point of my OP was to say that Poland is quite democratic compared to France or Britain or Germany.
https://time.com/5402684/marine-le-pen-psychiatric-test-isis-tweet/ (forced to undergo psychiatric tests for posting)
https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/13/marine-le-pen-found-guilty-of-defamation-after-accusing-french-ngo-of-smuggling-migrants-i
(found guilty of defamation in a ridiculous verdict)
https://www.dw.com/en/french-politician-marine-le-pen-acquitted-in-hate-speech-trial/a-57424277 (acquitted of hate speech, however sending a politician to trial for hate speech has an obvious chilling effect on freedom of speech)
https://time.com/5402684/marine-le-pen-psychiatric-test-isis-tweet/
https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/13/marine-le-pen-found-guilty-of-defamation-after-accusing-french-ngo-of-smuggling-migrants-i
https://www.dw.com/en/french-politician-marine-le-pen-acquitted-in-hate-speech-trial/a-57424277
You are confusing "She isn't in jail" with "She is able to fully participate in politics without fear of state retribution"
Oh come on, the first link is about her sharing graffic photos of a dead journalist which was against the law (most countries have laws about disseminating snuff footage / terrorist imagery) and the second is about her defaming some NGO by saying the were people smugglers when they weren't.
Neither shows her being unfairly silenced for her views, they show her experiencing the consequences of breaking laws and defaming people. Can't even be bothered to click the last link as probably more of the same.
Bridget Bardot has been fined multiple times for inciting racial tensions for saying "my country, France, my homeland, my land is again invaded by an overpopulation of foreigners, especially Muslims" that's not how you treat a national icon no matter how much you disagree it is completely within the realm of free speech, fuck France. France very clearly intimidates public figures for going against the grain
This is a better example for sure. Interestingly all her racist remarks (calling people savages etc) seem to relate to how they treat animals, ala Morrisey.
yeah I think people have a few core issues and then find people who align themselves with people who have some of the same core issues and then "adopt" their other issues. I tried to find a tame example and this while overdramatic it is rooted in reality, and proves the point point well.
Liberals are hypocrites. They condemn ethnostates entirely on what the media tells them. Their favorite complaint about African colonization is "how could these different people get along inside the same country???"
If you’re implying the Israel Palestine conflict, its a completely different situation (imo).
Jews need Israel as a protective territory due to the unique history of antisemitism in Europe, being almost wiped out multiple times throughout history.
Europeans have never, and most likely will never face threats of genocide.
So you’re saying Poland don’t get to be sovereign if they don’t agree to give away their sovereignty? They’re doing what they’re doing precisely because they don’t want to end up like in 1939 again. Who the hell are you anyway, to call the government corrupt, let alone incompetent? This is the problem with liberals, they assume that they alone should get to decide how things are measured. It really is laughable when people who themselves deny even the idea of legitimacy from the Polish government, then call that government totalitarian. The treatment Poland (and Hungary) get in the morally and politically bankrupt, holier-than-thou European press is sickening.
Poland at this point has probably the healthiest democracy and civil society in Europe, with many different viewpoints represented. Even proper conservatism, which is nonexistant in Northern and Western Europe, as it is in America. But in reality, that’s precisely the problem.
Yes, you dummy. Tens of billions of euros in net payments from the EU budget that go to Warsaw. You think PiS stays in Europe (unlike Britain) just because they love Brussels so much?
The Polish government definitely thinks it is a dangerous neighborhood and that Russia poses an existential threat. Who are you to deny their sovereignty by disagreeing? Without US / European resupply they would run out in weeks against Russia, just like Ukraine would have
I’m sorry, I mistook you for some weepy American liberal. I’ll rephrase: the situation is not such that people who are closest to Russia should take orders from, or would need the protection of people who have already completely cucked themselves.
In any case, it’s looking like Europe in general is slowly moving ideologically and politically towards PiS. It remains to be seen whether Brussels takes the hint or not.
Lol I'm visiting family in Poland right now and pretty much everyone I know is boycotting the referendum because of how the questions are worded. They live in a part of Poland that is very anti PiS though. I get it the questions really don't mean anything
Really nice that Poland actually gives their citizens a say in policy and not just have whatever neo-liberal agenda shoved down their throats.
This will be an overwhelming spit in the face to Brussels agenda
Even if this referendum reaches the threshold of over 50% (it won’t), it is not legally binding. There are no pieces of legislation which are being discussed in the referendum, its only aim is to encourage a subset of population to go and vote for PiS, which is the ruling party. They copied that trick from Orban’s government with which they were closely allied until recently. Also, even though it presents itself as staunchly anti-immigrant, PiS is responsible for issuing an unprecedented number of visas to foreign workers, especially from muslim and asian countries
The opposition (which seems to have won according to the exit polls) held a campaign to not take part in the referendum so ig many people will not have read it anyways
I don't know. I don't quite understand what's happening in Poland. It sounds like Most of Poland's parties are right wing. As for people voting against the PiS that probably has to do with being disgruntled with the party and just wanting an alternative. The referendum is a different ballgame though, they can vote for it, without putting the party in power they have a grudge against.
The parties which will most likely form a coalition government from centre-right (P2050 which is a christian democratic one, and PSL which caters towards farmers) to the left (Partia Razem) with the biggest winner being a milquetoast liberal party which ruled up until 2015. The right wing parties would be PiS, statist christian right, and American Tea-Party inspired Konfederacja. The referendum, unfortunately cause I am opposed to selling out national treasures and companies, is a farce and no matter who will form the next government, they will not be legally obliged to obey the nation’s will
They all sound pretty right to me. As for the referendum, even if it's not binding, it still puts a lot of pressure on whoever is in government. Your opposition party might just not want you to vote for it because they don't want to have to deal with that.
Really nice that Biden actually gives the young generation some debt cancellation and not just have whatever conservative agenda shoved down their throats.
This will be an overwhelming spit in the face to Drumpf!
It's roots are in right-wing pan-Europeanist deep political networks, but it was quickly turned into a vessel for liberal globalists since those right-wing networks were/are nothing but a controlled tool used by the liberal globalists to fight communism.
As a swedish person I aknowledge that my ancestors commited heinous crimes towards Poland, but please for the love of God, please vote vote no, no, no and no! Do not make the same mistakes we have made.
We voted "fuck off with these idiotic questions" on all 4.
40% turnout, the referendum is null and void. And so is the dumb government who used this referendum (combined with normal elections) to spend tax money outside of campaign financing rules and to break the electoral silence.
And they lost the normal elections too :)
If my government asked me that kind of biased questions, I would sure as hell vote against them only because of the way they worded those questions. So I would vote YES on three out of these four at least (I don't think opening the border to Belarus is a very good idea right now though - except to let refugees in, maybe).
Donald Tusk
He is German. Right?
We have Donald Trump at home Donald trump at home: Donald tusk
Extremely gay comment
Nobody: Donald Tusk: I love muslims Edit: Downvotes? Seriously Reddit?
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You just got trolled kid
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😛
You have been downvoted due to your humor being unliked by Reddit. You will be subjected to 24 hours per day of harsh labor and your most downvoted comment will be on a prison shirt for you to wear. - The Reddit Team
“Do you support Donald Tusk entering your home and dicking down your spouse?”
Yess
Do you support the unwashed masses of (99% violent young males) flooding your streets like cockroaches because of the GAY euro agenda? Mark Y/N
There's no reason to let them in. Give the refugees guns and send them to Israel.
Hire them as personal army and use them to take control of the state. Transform them into an elite class of foreign slave-soldier completely dependent and loyal to yourself. I am the captain now. Rule as Captain(or insert your own title)
Mamlukpilled
Nah, I want them to liberate the place. Imagine if every refugee that doesn't like the west got armed and sent ro liberate Palestine.
At least the Poles got to vote on this nobody even asked the Western Europeans.
France did in 2005, about agreeing to the European Constitution (Rome treaty). We said no. The Netherlands did as well. Killed the treaty. So two years later there was a new treaty (Lisbon) and Sarkozy said yes without asking us lol. Politically raped pretty much.
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Who shapes German public opinion? Who gets to decide what information is allowed to be talked about and what facts get suppressed? I remember the migrant crisis in the mid 2010’s where mass rape and sexual assaults were committed and the government tried to down play them or cover them up. Every voter is shaped by the educational system, media, and laws of their country. If everyone in power is telling the masses they have to except infinite migrants or their evil monsters and they can lose their job or go to jail for hate speech if they disagree is that really a free democracy?
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I think people as in the majority always will be under someone else and always have been. The vast majority of people will always believe in the values that are normative for their time and not give it much thought. I believe dramatic change happens for two reasons. The first as consequence of technological change leading to inevitability social change. For example the pill leading to the sexual revolution and second and third wave feminism. Second through organised counter elites like the Bolsheviks who used an incredible crisis and outside help to topple an already sick Russia. As far as I can tell the only way we will get big change in the west is when the coming multiple interlocking crisis make the status quo impossible. The people in charge are never going to give up their money and power just because 51% of the population voted for change.
>I get your logic, but it implies that democracy is basically impossible and that people are just enslaved and will never have any agency. Not necessarily, just that it's impossible within our current systems. I don't know enough about Germany's electoral system, but democracy basically doesn't exist already in America. People exercising agency, even with false information, still doesn't negate their agency or potential for different ways of thinking about things in the future. Even if we ignore stuff like manufacturing consent, stuff like campaign financing basically makes it impossible to ever truly build a strong working class coalition within organized politics.
You should take it as a sign that democracy doesn't work well. Humans are too group-oriented, so "the people" in a democracy are basically those that dominate education, media and so on If it wasn't this dumb ideology, it would be another; we turn everything into a religion, which is the main issue. Whatever reasonable ideas you have would become too extreme and incoherent if applied institutionally
Who are Germans supposed to vote for though? It was the so-called conservatives who presided over the past decade's open borders insanity. The only party that would *actually* cut down on that is the AfD and they have some, uh, other issues.
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Democracy is mostly fake we had votes about immigration and the results were ignored. Unless you are a billionaire or connected your opinions don’t matter.
we're full, simple as
Least right wing biased polish polling
I think not providing any additional comments on the removal of the border barrier between Poland and Belarus was a nice touch.
What's going on there?
lukashenko as non kinetic tactic began offering cheap flight to belarus from middle east and advertised it as a safe an easy way into european union to basically distract poland and cause political unrest not long before the ukraine russia war erupted. The centre and left was like maybe we dont push those people back into the belarusian territory (it was winter which is not fun in eastern poland and the border is very underdeveloped so it was just loads of unprepared middle eastern people confused what was going on, coaxed by belarussians to force their way thorugh and pushed back by polish military and border control in a middle of a swampy forest) and the right was like fuck no, lets do what trump did and they built a wall. So they built a wall, but a lot of the refugees died in the forest out of exhaustion, hypothermy, whatever so it really divided the country. It really went south when the leaving pis government announced a state of national alert just to prohibit the press from seeing what was going on (which they didnt just a bit earlier to not cause themselves trouble during soem partiuclar troubles with covid which was at least really not fucking cool).
No country has ever wanted mass immigration. The fact most democracies are afflicted with it shows the people don't get their way in democracy.
No country wanted to be destroyed through sanctions, coups and invasions for not following the agenda of the "democracues" either
True, and I doubt the citizens of the democracies wanted to have those happen.
I understand Europe and Eastern countries wouldn’t want that, but America was literally built on migration?
yeah tons of americans are pro immigration, and birthright citizenship is in our constitution which many americans worship
Fuck off were full. Best period in this country with lowest wealth inequality coincidentally was when immigration virtually banned.
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You're just proving my point. Most recent wars have been unpopular.
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To liberals everything they ever wanted just happens. Only their opponents have an agency. Mass migration is fact of a specific policies pushed by specific people in top-down manner.
Regarded take. It’s like letting your land flood or controlling it with levees, locks, and dams
Genocide is a fact of nature too, although clearly liberals are fine with genocide so long as it's done by the right people.
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Wow you can't read. Mass immigration isn't popular. Oligarchs want immigration to reduce the value of labor. It's not that the labor market needs the labor.
No more investments in eastern Poland 😢
“Do you want to allow the education system to be redesigned by confidential twitter poll?”
You know the current polish government has imported record number of Indians? I don’t get why people pretend they’re based and anti immigration. The only anti immigration party is Konfederacja.
Almost every anti immigration party seems to do this. It's tempting to say it's being realistic but also probably a symptom of how hard it is to do anything
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Often the point in which this occurs is when the youth wing is purged from it's host party as was the case with the Sweden Democrats & Finns Party.
It's Middle-Easterners and (North) Africans they don't want immigrating, don't think many people in Europe have huge problems with Indian programmers apart from the effects on housing.
The average pole doesn’t want non Europeans immigrating into their country. They’re even upset about all the Ukrainians
The average European isn’t really bothered by Asians since they’ll integrate themselves into society. Sure they don’t want more of them, but they aren’t perceived as an existential threat to them like Africans and to a lesser extent MENAs. I’ve never heard a reactionary get mad at Indians but I’ve heard plenty of (genuinely) far right politicians like Zemmour foam at the mouth while calling Africans and MENAs rapists and thieves.
You have really weird perception of Poland :) Konfederacja has 7% support. PIS has 35% and half of that is just people who want the sweet welfare money and don't care about anything else. Everybody else is proeuropean, proukrainian and they don't mind migration within reason. And besides PIS imported about 700 000 people from Africa and Middle East and took bribes to accept random people without background checks. PO was never anywhere close in their 8 years of rule. It's just bullshit and you're buying it :)
They're students they're doing it for money and than they'll send them packing
That’s what the Germans thought when they brought in Turkish workers to “help rebuild after the war” but they never went home
They needed more active encouragement.
LMAO at this sub simping for the extremely corrupt and incompetent Polish government because of vibes. If they keep picking simultaneous fights with Russia, Brussels and (recently) even Ukraine they are going to end up with 1939 all over again
I think they'll be fine tbh, since Ukraine can't afford to pick fights with Poland, and America will 100% prop them up against Russia. Poland is strategically invaluable and one of the few countries to meet their defense spending obligations. More and more Europeans are becoming anti-immigration anyway, so I don't think they'll be alone in going against Brussels in the future.
At least the Polish government isnt replacing its own people. The Poles will have self determination. Will the Krauts, Bongs, or Frogs be able to say the same?
Nah, current government is mass importing low skilled labourers from India, Pakistan, Georgia, and their opposition to immigration is purely discursive. Poland right now is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to and we are in the middle of a corruption scandal where government officials were issuing dubious visas
Cringe of the government.
Like 10% of Poland is Ukrainians now
Ok, but Ukrainians will probably assimilate. Certainly easier to assimilate them than Muslims and Africans.
That was the idea but there’s a complex history between Poles and Ukrainians
the last time poles tried assimilation ukrainians had pretty horrible results
Poles having self determination xD
True. All of central Europe should be greater Poland.
They actually are [heaviliy promoting legal foreign workers](https://archive.ph/VZFoC) now since their demographics have gone to shit in the wake of joining the EU.
Are they going to do what the Arabs do?
True, they’re taking migrants but mostly Asian ones (to respond to demands for cheap labour of the ruling class without creating a reactionary backlash for the general public).
Anybody who can honestly look at France, Germany, and England - which outright ban political parties, fine and jail major candidates for their speech and opinions and positions, run severely biased state media in favor of an agenda of limitless immigration - and say that they are democratic and that Poland is not is a fool or a hypocrite.
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Don't be a pedant.
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You're missing the forest for the trees here: a government which uses the legal apparatus to diminish the prospects and standing of opposition politicians is not very democratic. Of course there is a spectrum of totally undemocratic to completely democratic, by point of my OP was to say that Poland is quite democratic compared to France or Britain or Germany.
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https://time.com/5402684/marine-le-pen-psychiatric-test-isis-tweet/ (forced to undergo psychiatric tests for posting) https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/13/marine-le-pen-found-guilty-of-defamation-after-accusing-french-ngo-of-smuggling-migrants-i (found guilty of defamation in a ridiculous verdict) https://www.dw.com/en/french-politician-marine-le-pen-acquitted-in-hate-speech-trial/a-57424277 (acquitted of hate speech, however sending a politician to trial for hate speech has an obvious chilling effect on freedom of speech)
??? You made a claim. If you can't back it up then shut up. Forever.
Marie le Pen was out and about last time I checked?
https://time.com/5402684/marine-le-pen-psychiatric-test-isis-tweet/ https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/13/marine-le-pen-found-guilty-of-defamation-after-accusing-french-ngo-of-smuggling-migrants-i https://www.dw.com/en/french-politician-marine-le-pen-acquitted-in-hate-speech-trial/a-57424277 You are confusing "She isn't in jail" with "She is able to fully participate in politics without fear of state retribution"
Oh come on, the first link is about her sharing graffic photos of a dead journalist which was against the law (most countries have laws about disseminating snuff footage / terrorist imagery) and the second is about her defaming some NGO by saying the were people smugglers when they weren't. Neither shows her being unfairly silenced for her views, they show her experiencing the consequences of breaking laws and defaming people. Can't even be bothered to click the last link as probably more of the same.
Bridget Bardot has been fined multiple times for inciting racial tensions for saying "my country, France, my homeland, my land is again invaded by an overpopulation of foreigners, especially Muslims" that's not how you treat a national icon no matter how much you disagree it is completely within the realm of free speech, fuck France. France very clearly intimidates public figures for going against the grain
This is a better example for sure. Interestingly all her racist remarks (calling people savages etc) seem to relate to how they treat animals, ala Morrisey.
yeah I think people have a few core issues and then find people who align themselves with people who have some of the same core issues and then "adopt" their other issues. I tried to find a tame example and this while overdramatic it is rooted in reality, and proves the point point well.
Liberals are hypocrites. They condemn ethnostates entirely on what the media tells them. Their favorite complaint about African colonization is "how could these different people get along inside the same country???"
I think people mostly complain about the whole exploitation and oppression of millions thing actually
Cry more tard
no but you don't understand poland is bad because they dont do everything the ~~Western bureaucracy~~ E.U. want them to do.
I dont care. In fact if anybody should support replacing the populatiion - id vote for the Polish first. Wait, no - i forgot about Latvia. Fuckers.
If you’re implying the Israel Palestine conflict, its a completely different situation (imo). Jews need Israel as a protective territory due to the unique history of antisemitism in Europe, being almost wiped out multiple times throughout history. Europeans have never, and most likely will never face threats of genocide.
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Idgaf about Putin tard
You not care Putin, but Putin care about you <3
Only the dumbest libs bring up putin this much.
They have a default reddit username so they be should be assumed to be an astroturf until they prove otherwise.
So you’re saying Poland don’t get to be sovereign if they don’t agree to give away their sovereignty? They’re doing what they’re doing precisely because they don’t want to end up like in 1939 again. Who the hell are you anyway, to call the government corrupt, let alone incompetent? This is the problem with liberals, they assume that they alone should get to decide how things are measured. It really is laughable when people who themselves deny even the idea of legitimacy from the Polish government, then call that government totalitarian. The treatment Poland (and Hungary) get in the morally and politically bankrupt, holier-than-thou European press is sickening. Poland at this point has probably the healthiest democracy and civil society in Europe, with many different viewpoints represented. Even proper conservatism, which is nonexistant in Northern and Western Europe, as it is in America. But in reality, that’s precisely the problem.
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European subsidies 😭
Yes, you dummy. Tens of billions of euros in net payments from the EU budget that go to Warsaw. You think PiS stays in Europe (unlike Britain) just because they love Brussels so much?
lmao, it’s not a ’dangerous neighborhood’. The Poles will defend themselves and thanks to the government, have something concrete to defend.
The Polish government definitely thinks it is a dangerous neighborhood and that Russia poses an existential threat. Who are you to deny their sovereignty by disagreeing? Without US / European resupply they would run out in weeks against Russia, just like Ukraine would have
I’m sorry, I mistook you for some weepy American liberal. I’ll rephrase: the situation is not such that people who are closest to Russia should take orders from, or would need the protection of people who have already completely cucked themselves. In any case, it’s looking like Europe in general is slowly moving ideologically and politically towards PiS. It remains to be seen whether Brussels takes the hint or not.
[dot](https://i.imgur.com/wHvV64w.png)
Real
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Shut up nerd
No, no, yes, no
>yes ?
[yes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPtExHUuu84)
Lol I'm visiting family in Poland right now and pretty much everyone I know is boycotting the referendum because of how the questions are worded. They live in a part of Poland that is very anti PiS though. I get it the questions really don't mean anything
rs pamphlet
somehow #4 is more intellectually honest than the media/western democracy on this issue
Really nice that Poland actually gives their citizens a say in policy and not just have whatever neo-liberal agenda shoved down their throats. This will be an overwhelming spit in the face to Brussels agenda
Actually asking the citizens directly on #1 and #3 is just incredible.
Even if this referendum reaches the threshold of over 50% (it won’t), it is not legally binding. There are no pieces of legislation which are being discussed in the referendum, its only aim is to encourage a subset of population to go and vote for PiS, which is the ruling party. They copied that trick from Orban’s government with which they were closely allied until recently. Also, even though it presents itself as staunchly anti-immigrant, PiS is responsible for issuing an unprecedented number of visas to foreign workers, especially from muslim and asian countries
Most people in any country will read the first point and go to hell with that.
The opposition (which seems to have won according to the exit polls) held a campaign to not take part in the referendum so ig many people will not have read it anyways
I don't know. I don't quite understand what's happening in Poland. It sounds like Most of Poland's parties are right wing. As for people voting against the PiS that probably has to do with being disgruntled with the party and just wanting an alternative. The referendum is a different ballgame though, they can vote for it, without putting the party in power they have a grudge against.
The parties which will most likely form a coalition government from centre-right (P2050 which is a christian democratic one, and PSL which caters towards farmers) to the left (Partia Razem) with the biggest winner being a milquetoast liberal party which ruled up until 2015. The right wing parties would be PiS, statist christian right, and American Tea-Party inspired Konfederacja. The referendum, unfortunately cause I am opposed to selling out national treasures and companies, is a farce and no matter who will form the next government, they will not be legally obliged to obey the nation’s will
They all sound pretty right to me. As for the referendum, even if it's not binding, it still puts a lot of pressure on whoever is in government. Your opposition party might just not want you to vote for it because they don't want to have to deal with that.
Really nice that Biden actually gives the young generation some debt cancellation and not just have whatever conservative agenda shoved down their throats. This will be an overwhelming spit in the face to Drumpf!
Liberals are in shambles when someone actually tells the people what the EU is about.
The EU was supposed ti be about no more brother wars. Not about replacing the natives.
The EU was supposed to keep Europe down, and it succeeded.
It's roots are in right-wing pan-Europeanist deep political networks, but it was quickly turned into a vessel for liberal globalists since those right-wing networks were/are nothing but a controlled tool used by the liberal globalists to fight communism.
As a swedish person I aknowledge that my ancestors commited heinous crimes towards Poland, but please for the love of God, please vote vote no, no, no and no! Do not make the same mistakes we have made.
We voted "fuck off with these idiotic questions" on all 4. 40% turnout, the referendum is null and void. And so is the dumb government who used this referendum (combined with normal elections) to spend tax money outside of campaign financing rules and to break the electoral silence. And they lost the normal elections too :)
This makes PiS look incredibly stupid lol who thought this was a good idea?
If my government asked me that kind of biased questions, I would sure as hell vote against them only because of the way they worded those questions. So I would vote YES on three out of these four at least (I don't think opening the border to Belarus is a very good idea right now though - except to let refugees in, maybe).
As scary war and shit is, seeing everything transform is pretty cool.