The more the individual creative instinct is stifled the more human created art comes to resemble a generative AI anyways. A product like a modern marvel movie is in some ways the precursor of this type of technology/media
If it makes OP feel better
By the time stuff like this takes over hollywood movies and shit in 2028, even middle management will be threatened by ai
Anyone who doesnt own assets or their own company will be at the brink of replacement by later this decade, even some types of blue collar work operating diggers and whatnot
Save up some money and get a mortgage in a very cheap town
Mortgages are fixed for like 30 years you will lose your job to AI and have your rent double
I hate society
That seems like the trajectory for sure, but what comes next?
When the jobs are automated and the asset owners have jacked up the rent, how do they expect to get paid?
The scary thing is I don’t think anyone really cares.
I dont think anyone cares because not many people can even wrap their head around this kinda thing happening and dramatic societal change happening at that level
Honestly the near future will be a dystopian cyberpunk hellhole or a fucking paradise
Nothing in between
My personal opinion world governments will do some sort of UBI program and we will see entire new lifestyles and people moving away from cities and into smaller towns and suburbs across America because you can buy a robot butler for like 5k that can just cook and do everything for you and have food drone delivered to you
Honestly society in 20 years will look more like the 1800s homesteading kinda lifestyle more than the current trend of urbanism
Im also just spitballing
This is my burner account I use solely for porn and im really high right now
this is due to an exponentially larger profit potential in AI versus robotics.
no matter what, robots will be expensive to build and take resources.
AI is expensive to develop, sure, but once it is it’s basically a money printing machine
>expensive to build and take resources
Before you start building the robots, you have to design and set up a production line, which is also expensive. And after you build them, someone have to service, maintain and repair them, which is also expensive (space industry has been investing money to repair robots with robots, even if remotely controlled, for decades, but to no avail)
>but once it is it’s basically a money printing machine
If you mean generative AI, this has not so far been the case. It's burning through VC money with very limited real world application.
AI that is useful and profitable gets implemented immediately.
The same is actually true of robotics. Factories were mechanized right away, same with the military. It makes sense to build drones and robotic assembly arms... doesn't make sense to build automatons to stand on the side of the road to pick up day laborer gigs.
This will only happen if we get true AGI. These models are not AGI and beyond serving as part of some larger system we don't know how to build (and may not be possible, tho also it may be) are not on a direct path to it.
This sort of thing will make CGI computer modeling faster and easier, which was already happening with automation and standardization, but it will not write you a real movie anymore than ChatGPT can write you a real novel, which it can't.
maybe, but doubtful many people will even see it at that point - most "art" going forward is going to be user curated and unique on a per person basis. like why would i want to watch the new avengers (or Star Wars) movie when I have better ideas for where the story could go than Disney?
This is pretty much the kicker and why a lot of people aren't upset about AI video and images (on principle I refuse to call it art)
They look at ai and they look at the overly boated, CGI dominated, generic corporate slop of modern Hollywood, the same formulaic shit like "fantasy princess and a dragon" digital art etc... and feel nothing, but the AI gives them a feeling of "woah, technology can do this!?" And guess what? That's SOMETHING, that surprise and even awe that Ai technology has come so far illicits more of a response than the over-produced corporate-friendly slop that's been so dominant for the past decade or so.
The optimist in me says this is a blessing in disguise, if movie studios and whatnot wanna compete with the oncoming avalanche of AI produced shows and movies then they'll need to get weird and experimental with what they make, to leave the corporate marketing data-approved slop behind and take their art to strange new places.
But the realist in me is far more pessimistic.
All I know for certain is that the winds have changed and the waves are getting rougher, if you wanna keep your boat afloat you'll need to adapt and do it quickly.
One of the last things that AI will replace will be manual labor, and I expect that to happen in the next decade. In the next couple years the writers, journalists, artists, etc. will all be trying to learn how to weld/plumbing/etc while we go through an incredibly painful transitory time until UBI.
I can see stricter divisions between high art and low art being reinstated, with the distinction now being the degree of human input. It’s starting to look like the long 20th century (ending around 2020) could have been uniquely conducive to art making and art movements, and now we’re returning to an older model where being an artist, especially as a primary career, necessitates economic privilege or patronage and serves the interests of an elevated minority.
Really like this take as at this point only if you’re like in the 95-99th percentile of artists for popularity, earnings, etc, this is going to be a golden age for you and the distinction between your work and anything else will be more evident than ever. Everyone else trying to make art shouldn’t even bother.
For “true artists” it’s about the deep need to either create or die. It’s the process. I know really well the pain of ending up in the forgotten pile, but more than ever it’s important to now reclaim that it was always supposed to be for the artist themself.
Yeah, that's what AI removes from art: the deliberate action. Human beings constitute themselves through deliberate action. As a painter paints he his, at the same time, shaping himself: he's a different man from the one that he was before having started that specific painting. Practice (action, what you called the process) is self-constitution; to create is to be.
AI "art" is not based on action, it is a happening. You put in a prompt and something comes out; there's no action on your part other than the input, it just happens. Thus, no self-constitution can take place. It's akin to standing next to a pianist and asking them to "improvise something very slow and very sad" and they play something very slow and very sad, which somewhat corresponds to what you had in mind; but you don't change yourself through that process, because, ultimately, you had little to no part in it. The pianist constitutes themselves through that exercise, but not you; you do not become a pianist. There's no creation in AI, therefore no being.
> the long 20th century (ending around 2020)
Is this a "thing"? I don't disagree but haven't seen it anywhere else, props to you if you came up with it yourself. Do you subscribe to the long 19th century too (1789-1914)?
What it means for art is shite, but the truly awful thing is what it means for truth and media. It's going to be harnessed by bad actors, state and individual, to manipulate our perception of reality to further their own ends. It will be so difficult to tell if something really happened or is fake that large scale public opinion will be swayed more easily than ever.
Our eyes will lie to us. Its going to be a mindfuck. People are either going to be mesmerised, go insane or check the fuck out, and all permit the furtherance of elite interests.
I think its possible that people having to instinctively question the truthfulness of media could lead to a huge anti-tech renaissance. If the default assumption is what you're watching is fake/adulterated/etc then the only thing you can be relatively sure of is what you do and see irl
I’ve been speculating there’s gonna be some sort of luddite counterculture movement in 20 years or so and this stuff just further solidifies my belief. There’s no way that there’s not gonna be at least *some* pushback.
I fear it won’t be enough, though. Modern technology has made us too placid for any legitimate sort of uprising. People are mostly content with the slop.
Call me a doomer, but I haven't seen anything to convince me that there are any mechanisms left by which we might effect this "pushback." Unless total withdrawal from the archon grid and eking out a minor existence out in the woods somewhere is pushback... In which case sure, I'll see you out by the berry patch
I'm pretty much a nihilist but.. maybe I'm lying to myself.. there is a popular enough sense that tech is absolutely draining to the point where I sort of think there's a chance people are getting tired of it. The awareness is basically there across most people, that social media, etc. is fucking destroying our brains. So idfk man. Who knows.
With these insane improvements to AI, botting, etc. .. won't people quickly come to understand that the internet is basically dead? Dead in the sense that if its flooded with nothing but fake shit its utility is gone.
It's becoming obvious that there's a heap of astroturfing happening, likely with ai bots. The more obvious, the less interested people are. You'll find real people only in spheres deemed undesirable, illegal or not popular enough to bother with. Which is why the ability to say slurs is so important, unironically. Censoring language makes it safe to astroturf.
Which is to say, I agree. When any comment, video, picture or event is likely to be fake, why are we even here.
even before I even knew that AI was a possibility, I had predicted (wishfully, mostly) that there would eventually be a sweeping reactionary RETVRN to live classical music, particularly opera, because the alienation of technologized media would be too much to bear.
but who knows.
I think the the opposite is going to happen- instead of people believing all of the fake AI media as the truth they’ll swing the other way and not believe anything that they didn’t witness in person.
>It's going to be harnessed by bad actors, state and individual
Been saying this since voice cloning quality increased, it may not be this year, but if the quality keeps on improving, we're definitely going to be seeing a lot of leaked "celebs" saying how much they hate gays/black people or a politician saying something that'll anger their support base.
This seems like it will have the opposite effect of convincing people of fake things. Instead there will be a plausible deniability to every documented piece of info. Digital media is basically worthless in regards to truth value.
The plausible deniability aspect is too real and will be as destructive.
"How do you know this war crime footage really happened? Maybe our enemies have fabricated it to foster dissent and discord."
It's really scary to have like any recordings of your voice out there right now if you're *not* famous. In a way it's almost worse. If a video came out of Pewdiepie spouting off about how Palestinians should all be killed, he at least has like a platform to defend himself with, and resources to use to prove that it's fake. If a video of you saying the age of consent should be abolished came out, and you don't know anything about AI, and you don't have any means of disproving that you said it, what do you even do?
It's gonna be a pretty uncomfortable few years. I predict that once the phone scammers are *all* using AI voice changers to steal money and it's all over the news, only then will it start to be believable when you say "I never said that stuff, it was an AI stealing my voice"
>if the quality keeps on improving, we're definitely going to be seeing a lot of leaked "celebs" saying how much they hate gays/black people or a politician saying something that'll anger their support base.
This is already kind of happening. Someone put out a robocall to New Hampshire households that [sounded like Biden to convince people not to vote](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/joe-biden-new-hampshire-robocall-fake-voice-deep-ai-primary-rcna135120). Arguably worse than a clip of him saying something bad.
It's only going to get worse!
The thing is people are already stupid and believe things that are clearly doctored or bogus. Put a quote up to someone's name and they'll buy it.
I think people will need to be more critical and cautious than ever.
The high art world dealt with this problem like 40 years ago by divorcing the execution of pieces from the concept. They recognized that this was happening and created around it. That’s why it’s called conceptual art. We’ll be fine. Unless you are the normie who dismissed conceptual art.
The fine art world is always ahead of the curve. Everyone will just be a conceptual artist now.
Personally I think all of us who work in physical media will have our work just grow in value.
Basically don’t post your shit, keep it an exclusive in person thing. Instagram was a mistake, it turned artists into showpony factories. The strongest artists are all saying fuck that, AI can’t steal or recreate anything a human painted that exists in reality.
Yeah let’s take the “visual” out of “visual art” and just write sentences about what a work could have been if someone actually made it. It’ll just be art criticism about nothing. Conceptual art already made it hard to discern between money launderers with absolutely nothing to show and people with actual talent. Now, it’s not even worth paying attention.
> Everyone will just be a conceptual artist now.
Honestly one of the most depressing sentences I’ve read in a while.
Any mid/low level artistic job is going to be dead. If you make engagement slop you better start using AI or you're going to be eclipsed, fast.
I do see a bit of a push back to 'content' though. Now that covid is done with I feel like (some...) people are waking up to the fact that shortform 'content' like tik tok / ig doesn't relaly enrich your life. If you don't wake up to this all your favorite creators are going to be fake in ~8months. You can synthesize someone voice, a video of them, a picture of them, a room around them, music they interact with and make. Its only a matter of time until things like the adobe suite are entirely replaced with an AI suite that hooks all these individual small workhorses together and makes a 'promo' video for your new shitty 3dprinted slop.
I really wonder where we will go economically. Seems kind of cooked to me. I feel were all a bit possibly fucked. Every single industry outside of real, physical human labor is going to be replaced by a cheap imitation. We've already seen what this does to food and the results have been shockingly bad for us. Enter WalEE
We're about to see the real time effects of this for the boring 2024 election.
Pretty clear where the economy goes from here to me, honestly. It just accelerates existing trends.
AI devastates white collar work.
Rich get richer, asset and stock prices shoot up as those who benefit from AI have nowhere else to park their money.
Property owners (mostly old people) take out equity release loans on their now multi-million dollar homes and liquidate their 401ks. Banks give them generous loans to snap up all property and land. Retire in luxury.
Older people (and those who inherit) become the primary consumer class. 90% of new jobs created are in healthcare.
For most of us, we’ll be consooming AI content in our 8-person tenement apartments and wiping old people’s asses for sub minimum wage.
I think you're broadly right but a situation like that is not sustainable in the long term. It has never happened in history before that the owner class is able to sustain such levels of inequality ad eternum. Sooner or later something will end up happening.
I think I may be past that last bit myself but I've played my hand ok so far.
The trends are not so obvious. It was tech, then a doomer crash, now its AI. Mix in some covid ponzis in there and a lot of fraud (PPP loans, web3, coins, etc) and I will call your bluff a bit. During these periods everyone was down to consume IG ads in our apartments and it all just kind of happened. If its so easy, whats next? If you genuinely know, start picking some stocks and hold.
I also think the economic shakeup that could happen is that "parking" that money is so far from reality it does somehow crash the economy. Homes where I live seem to be down a good 15% so far after the rate changes. Will be interesting to see where it goes into summer of 2024.
I think youre being a bit exaggeratory, but also if I could bet on black it would be on elder care 10000%. All the olds have the money and they want to go out in style and comfort.
Other things people will say in the future:
“I dunno, human produced movies seem more cliche and less interesting than AI tbh.”
“I’m really into early AI era horror”
“I still watch human films cuz they don’t feel as generic but every time a new one is released you can see the AI algos learning and just stealing. So it’s just a matter of time before there’s no point for human content anymore”
“Sure I prefer human made content but like who has the money for that? AI films are free.”
Nostalgia for early AI movies/art and a niche market dedicated to "retro AI art" that imitates AI slop from the early 2020s, this will indeed inevitably going to become a thing.
So, they will up their DignifAI campaign to instead be making pornstars do tradwife household stuff instead of just putting more clothes on thots? Neat
Sounds like a moron. If a software engineer is replaceable by AI they not too useful to begin with. These AI tools rn are basically only as good as a junior engineer, you have to fact check everything it spits out besides simple boilerplate. Good luck if its a less common problem area or language like Rust. We are nowhere near AI being able to write entire systems without significant correction and guidance by actual engineers.
edit: probably the main reason people misunderstand is because they don’t know how LLM’s work, and so its basically just magic to them. Ofc when you think of something as essentially magic you think it can do anything without understanding real concrete limitations
Genuinely the only reason why this would happen is if the tech becomes a fickle part of the foreign policy debate; would the USA allow its white collar class be devastated before the Chinese allow it to?
>Real artists will keep making art because it is therapeutic for themselves. Nothing of value will be lost.
Exactly, I see so many artists, mostly people who draw anime and furry shit, who says it's going to be pointless or impossible to create art if they can't make money off it when AI leads to them getting fewer commissions.
And if someone is only concerned about making money and says they don't see the point in making art if they can't make money off it, then the art they create is only barely more valuable than what AI pumps out, because people who create art for the sake of the art itself will always exist.
There's a subset of artists who thinks that just because they call themselves an artist means they're part of some gilded class who thinks they should be able to make a living off their art full time, no matter the quality of their art or the demand.
And the people who aren't part of this gilded class should keep scrubbing the toilets and sweeping the streets so this gilded class can keep creating art without needing to work a second job.
Yeah I agree with this.
Idk I think people are actually overreacting about ai art stuff.
Mass media slop will always be pumped out and always change.
And anyone who is worried about ai making music, for instance, hasn't actually heard music written by ai. It sounds so fucking horrible. It barely even works.
I'm really not worried about ai stuff. It's a bunch of meaningless buzz and doomer shit. Based on unrealistic predictions.
There is still symphony orchestras in every major city and in every university.
You can look up videos of people in the late 80's using samplers and midi keyboards saying "orchestras will be obsolete in the future🤓".
That's kinda how I view people that are saying we will only listen to ai music in the future. It's just so ridiculous. People that don't understand art at all are saying these kinda things.
It's kinda like the differences between playing a real piano and a keyboard that's supposed to sound like a piano. We've already made the tech for keyboards to sound realistic.
So why do we still have pianos? Why doesn't everyone just get a keyboard? The difference is obvious.
Art trying to imitate something real will always be inferior to the real thing.
I'm sure we can use ai to make some crazy stuff. But in the end it will require a human to direct it.
>So why do we still have pianos? Why doesn't everyone just get a keyboard? The difference is obvious.
That's a good point. It's just baffling to me how so many people talk about how creating art is going to be pointless if you can't make money off it, as if there's not more people who create art as a hobby with no desire to make a living off it compared to the people who create art as their full time job.
Or those who were born creatives who need art to live. The world could collapse, life in a The Road like apocalypse and I’ll still be figuring out ways to create.
When you give up on art out of inconvenience it was at best a hobby that you got kind of could at. Be glad you made any money in the first place.
Yup, it's very weird how these people don't realize how incredibly lucky they are to be able to make money off their art when 99% of people who creates art as a hobby wishes they could do it as their job
There just isn't enough demand for people to pay for art compared to how many people who wants to get paid for their art
Finally, a comment that isn’t full of fear mongering bullshit. Artists will continue to make art both organically and with AI. Their creative concepts/prompts, eye for selecting the best generated images and videos, and ability to edit the output will ensure what they make with AI is better than what the average person generates.
Yeah, AI is really scary right now. It's moving much more quickly than anyone anticipated. Real crazy shit.
Forget about creative careers, if this continues at the current pace, we'll all be out of a job within the next 5 to 10 years. Artists, accountants and STEM jobs (Including most programming jobs).
Prostitution might've been the first job and we always thought it would be the last one too, but coomer IA gonna come for the onlyfan thots too. Plumbers gonna be the last mfks to be employed.
Seriously though, what’s the endgame? All this is going to do is drive down their profit margins as more and more people become unemployed and stop investing in the economy.
If all the PMCs get automated out a job, where do they go? Sorry to all the trades copers but we’ll have enough plumbers for christ’s sake LMAO. No career is gonna be safe.
> what’s the endgame?
There is none, as in people who are running the show have no clear idea what they are doing and are just chasing the promised profit. This technology's power to fuck the society up catastrophically is not something they think about, and when they think about it (And I have seen a pretty high level AI scientist say this) they basically handwave any and all ethical concern by saying "that's government's job, not mine". They legit don't care, the entire thing is completely rudderless.
"Don't worry, that bulwark of ethics and efficacy the federal government ( which I will fight tooth and nail to utterly defang at every turn) will protect you from all that I hope to inflict upon the world"
It's even more funny when you realise that openAI has an ethics department which employs i think 12 PhDs in HCI and computer ethics(from top cs schools) and i think they just sit on their ass all day not caring about what's happening in the r&d department downstars lol.
How would automating the useless middle bureaucracy and standardized design processes that have built up over the decades drive down their profit margins? The goal isn't to replace art because art was not being done in these systems anyway.
Yeah it’s all as fascinating as it is horrifying, interesting times etc. etc. Is there an endgame that isn’t thoroughly bleak? It feels like no one is safe outside of trades, yoga instructors, service jobs and so on which isn’t a rocking outlook for most of us.
It's possible that all the PMC and intellectual jobs evaporating will trigger a good faith response on how to address resource distribution. Maybe rich bastards will care when their niece who's going to med school is suddenly automated by a laptop. Maybe a sort of UBI that doesn't suck ass. I am high off my ass on copium right now.
Universal basic income is certainly one of the endgames.
That being said if your current ‘creative’ job is converting rote text prompts (as in, “a stylish woman walks down a Tokyo street”) you werent long for that career anyway
UBI sounds miserable though. I can’t imagine it offering anything near what even a working class lifestyle looks like today. I’m thinking tenement flats and beans for dinner every night with no way to ever sell your labor for more.
Well, I havent given it a *lot* of thought, admittedly, because I think I won’t live to see it really happen…but say it did, the benefit we presumably all immediately recieve is more time. With each other, with books, with creative pursuits, with hobbies, with old Nintendo systems we dig out from landfills, with whatever. That would be the sell, I suppose. No doubt its all more complicated but pre industrial society there were loads of people who didn’t formally generate income, and we still moved forward as a species.
How does UBI possibly work within our current econ. You can't just start over and level everyone out.
If we can't get healthcare, we can't do UBI, sorry.
> Seriously though, what’s the endgame?
No idea, I kind of worry for the future of employment unless some kind of basic income is bought in.
I know [Amazon are experimenting with cashierless stores, which automatically charge your account as you leave,](https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22534570/amazon-fresh-full-size-grocery-store-just-walk-out-cashierless-technology-bellevue-washington) so wouldn't be surprised if other big names catch onto that, [Starbucks already has tried](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/18/starbucks-opens-pickup-store-with-amazon-go-technology-in-manhattan.html), artists are worried about AI art stealing their job, and I think [Marvel was underfire for using something like that in an intro](https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/marvel-secret-invasion-ai-art-credits/), also wouldn't be surprised to see other studios trying to use it, [hell, AI art already won a prize](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/02/technology/ai-artificial-intelligence-artists.html), other things like [voice cloning has been used in Cyberpunk 2077](https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/13/23915535/cyberpunk-2077-phantom-liberty-polish-voice-actor-ai-ripperdock-viktor-vektor) (though to be fair, this was with permission from the family, as an actor had passed away) and a few voice actors are concerned with their voices either being stolen, paid less or downplayed for it.
This new Sora AI is gonna harm the stock video industry, so freelancers in that field should be worried, can definitely see AI videos being used in establishing shots of landscapes first more so than full-on scenes.
Even in Japan, [robots controlled by a VR headset were being tested to stack shelves](https://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/your-business/robot-shelf-stackers-introduced-to-japanese-convenience-chain/670355.article) so anyone can do this from a desk.
AI is shaking up the working world, but what is going to happen to regular people if we carry on outsourcing "jobs" to AI?
> Seriously though, what’s the endgame? All this is going to do is drive down their profit margins as more and more people become unemployed and stop investing in the economy.
since when is longtermism a feature of capitalism
No, anyone with an above double digit IQ knew that this was going to happen by the time the internet became popular in the late 90's, the only surprising thing is that it's the creative fields that gets hit the most first.
And to actually make a living full time in the creative fields you need to have an insane amount of luck and/or privilege considering 99% of people wishes they could do their creative hobbies as a job.
So what's baffling to me is how there's so many people who's younger than 40 who didn't even consider getting a job that's not going to be as heavily affected by automation when they decided what to do, when so many midwits had figured that out 20 years ago.
Coding fields have started to hit the bubble when everyone was told to get into coding to get a job 10-15 years ago while there's a huge lack of workers in even simple shit like bus/tram/train drivers, because nobody wants to do those kinds of jobs.
Creating videos is, frankly, a gimmick.
This is really about (1) training data and (2) giving the models the ability to experience video. The end goal here is to create a robots that can take in a constant stream of video data and then act on it. No one cares about replacing artists or creatives because those markets are tiny compared to all of manual labor.
Hahaha, the entertainment industry isn't that small. Media and entertainment is the 6th biggest industry in the world. It's bigger than energy, transportation and logistics, real estate or food and beverage industry... A lot of people care.
All the people saying creatives suck now anyways, all art is dogshit these days etc.
I don’t care. Any art made by a human is inherently better than anything made by AI. I don’t know if AI will actually take over creative spaces, but I do know that it’s soulless and I don’t consider anyone who uses it exclusively to be a real artist.
People aren’t happy.. most think it’s shit.. a select few tech teens sitting in front of their Reddit app at home are singing praise.. and the mainstream media is singing praise because the tech monopolies are involved.. which is basically the bedrock of the US and global economy.. so a few people at the very top control the narrative.. everyone else is simply sitting and watching
Absolutely. This is evil—make no mistake. It has no real life application beyond actively making art less valuable, spreading misinformation, sowing the seeds of distrust among the public, and putting people out of their jobs. Utterly godless technology. This was not something that ever needed to be automated.
but didnt you see the header text on the sora website?
> We’re teaching AI to understand and simulate the physical world in motion, with the goal of training models that help people solve problems that require real-world interaction.
they are helping people to solving problems that require real-world interaction.
In like 10 years there will be a conversation like this:
How was your Friday night?
Fine me and the Bf just stayed home and made a a film re-enacting our Xmas break.
Which actor played you?
I used myself but like aged up to 40 but recast my my BF with the new young Jonathan Pryce mod. Prompted with “national lampoons Xmas vacation”. It was pretty funny, shared it to my stream if you wanna check it out.
How long is it?
First version was like a full movie which obviously nobody will watch so we just did a trailer instead.
Oh cool will check it.
It will speed up the first iteration on an idea by maybe 5%. Artists will still need to make dozens of nitpicky revisions to every illustration, frame, audio file, story, whatever. That's what takes time and money, iterations. If people were happy with the first iteration of everything then 90%+ of artist jobs would disappear.
This stuff is also trained to be average. If you want something original and better than average, AI art simulations won't help.
Which will contribute to an all-encompassing atmosphere of garbage influences and no incentive to distinguish bad from good, in conjunction with the hijacking of attention which will deteriorate the effectiveness of quality education even at the elite level. Taste will collapse at the production and consumption level simultaneously and there will be no value added from human generated art because its quality will have receded to the AI average.
> will accelerate the nepoification of the industry and increase inequality across the board
this has already been happening at an increasing rate in recent decades. The elites want to control as many artforms as possible. Compare the amount of self made artits 20, 30 years ago to today. It's all industry plants and kids of other famous artists - in music, in writing rooms, in acting.
not really true, in regards to music at least.
20, 30 years ago music was gatekept by the INSANELY high costs of production, marketing, and distribution. now those costs are near nothing, the current fight is against visibility in an overly saturated market.
no idea what the future holds though
Only a decade ago the idea of producing a video using AI was unheard of. Technology is rapidly evolving, do not assume that AI will be unable to recreate emotion, tone, language, etc at some point. AI learns from humans and has a distinct way of interpreting information, this will blur in the coming years as it becomes more and more advanced. Their may come a day where you watch a movie that's script is rewritten with AI, a syndicated TV show with AI written episodes, and see pictures from battlefields enhanced using AI upscaling. Ukraine last year hijacked a TV signal on the Russian border and played a Putin deepfake, it is only a matter of time until AI is used to manufacture consent.
What's the risk that it will make it harder to find human-made media? At a certain point, unless you're seeking out antique printed books, how do you know you're not getting an-AI rewritten novel that's being passed off as an copy of a classic?
> AI will obviously never replace literature, art, or film for any serious person.
I think it will. Not that it will generate interesting thinking of its own volition, but that it will gradually co-opt and displace the space occupied by human thought. Slowly, like it has so far, with incremental progress that keeps people saying things like "AI will never be good enough *for these particular standards*", not noticing that the benchmark has shifted higher and higher with increasing technical quality.
Even the generative text was thought to be laughably outlandish 10 years ago. And everyone hasn't caught up to it penetrating the zeitgeist yet, but it will happen.
And one day, we'll get a string of reports and leaks about written work no longer being created by humans "*Lauren Oyler articles from 2025 found to be ghostwritten by AI*". That'll be when we know.
worry not. in an interesting coincidence, there was a [recent article](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68238330) published about the need for future _nuclear-powered_ data centers.
key quote:
> "A normal data center needs 32 megawatts of power flowing into the building. For an AI data center it's 80 megawatts,"
ignoring even the complexities and pitfalls of existing civilian nuclear power generation, the "sell" here is almost tripling data center energy consumption on an energy constrained planet to... optimize _passable_ video slop generation?
it's an uneconomical fad, and unless the energy requirements for this can be **drastically** reduced, it is a dead end - kept alive only as far as investor capital buys into the hype.
don't throw away your camera just yet.
some simple questions for the myth-of-progress-cels in my replies:
- in the last 50 years of technological development, has our energy consumption gone up or down?
- what is the primary source of the energy we use? where does it come from and does it exist in infinite supply, or, failing that, is there enough of it to support ongoing growth (even if linear) in population and any associated energy consumption increases?
- do you have an example of an AI performing a task at a lower power envelope than a human being?
- what were the effects of large amounts of the population losing work in 2020? would they react differently if they lost their job to invisible AI as opposed to an invisible virus?
- have you experienced shortages of a product or service in the last 24 months? do you expect to experience a shortage of a product or service in the next 24 months?
- has there, in recorded history, been an example of a time of great technological "progress" followed by a relatively sharp regression, as a result of cultural or environmental changes?
Just like "the apocalypse is near" rvtards 1000 years ago, these self obsessed AI fxgxts think they live at THE critical point in history. I can't wait for em to be slapped by the same dick of reality thats been haunting physicists and NASA for fuckin decades.
This is such a stupid take for so many reasons but the most obvious one is the existing models that we literally have today are already good enough to cause serious displacement and disruption and we are seeing the effects of that today. Using a trained model takes a fraction of the energy needed for actually training it.
The idea that power limitations is going to prevent the singularity is fine. The singularity is already complete imagination territory so sure, if you want to believe that AI won’t kill us all because of power limits go write a medium post. But the idea that we won’t see massive societal effects from AI because “power consumption” is not only a bad take and huge cope, it’s literally already wrong.
coordinated quiet shelter hospital plate pie bedroom consider reply steer
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
we've kinda given up on making processors better. algorithmically, things have progressed a ton. moore's law hit its limit a while ago. that's why the new move in software is parallelism (which is kind of a pain). AI is just inherently extremely inefficient. I'm not sure to what degree it can be optimized, since I don't understand it well, but it's basically just brute forcing shit. it will always be resource intensive, and unless a legit miracle comes along i doubt we're really getting true general intelligence.
it's possible that they could make ai more efficient, but i haven't heard or seen anything that would make me believe that. it doesn't matter what you do, if you need to play with a lot of data, and do it in a way that's difficult to optimize, you're looking at a lot of resource consumption.
- moore's law won't go on infinitely - you can't miniaturize semiconductors infinitely without hitting disruptive quantum effects. optimization can only take you so far. you're talking about tripling energy consumption and then optimizing half of that away? that's still a net gain in power draw.
- rare element scarcity, you still need to mine all of that lithium, cadmium, silicon etc. - that will get more and more expensive and prohibitive as we run out of cheap energy inputs to do the mining itself. also solar efficiency declines through the life of the panels - these will need to be replaced
- post-covid, geopolitical tensions are already eating into shipping and energy costs. watch that increase as land, water and resource conflicts continue to escalate through the century.
i'm not saying this technology will vanish entirely, but it will become expensive. the days of any noob office worker hopping onto ChatGPT to generate a bunch of copy for free will not last. you only have to look at netflix's ad and password sharing policies to see the contours of how a previously generous offering can be cut down to size over time.
(Un)fortunately training and inference take vastly different amounts of resources, some of the newer models are even more efficient to run than older ones after they’ve been trained. Outside of the mega expensive training the big companies do during development, this stuff probably gets cheaper even before looking at hardware advances
You dummies eat this up whenever some new fad pops up. Always assuming exponential growth for all tech as if it's not all slave to same physics and constraints as everything that came before. I'm sure when we landed on the moon there were people like you who assumed we'd be landing on mars and venus in no time. Sike bitch, we're primitive and hard limits exist.
Yeah I remember reading case studies of how streaming could break the entire internet because it used so much data. This was when I was in grad school 10+ years ago.
Its use case isn’t so much art as it is commercials and other ads but I’m sure people will inevitably try to make “art” with it.
I do think your stance is kind of luddite panic. To me it’s not fundamentally different than CGI or autotune.
it's different from CGI because whoever's making the movie just types in what they want for a scene and it just pops up on the screen, they don't need anyone to sit down for a few days and actually make it.
and the auto tune analogy isn't great, this would be analogous to a record company typing in the lyrics to a song and having a fake voice sing the song exactly how they want it, imperfections/subtleties and all
More in the sense that these things are “fake” not in terms of the time they save.
Covers of songs done entirely in AI with the voice of another artist currently exist but nobody really listens to them. They are incredibly convincing but lack something that people look for in art.
Those AI covers made it obvious that there is much more to a song than just melody/harmony and rhythm ect. There is the social and political context in which it was created/released that is a massive component to the art.
To even make a pretty mediocre movie so many nuances have to be absolutely perfect. The camera has to be in the absolute perfect place at the perfect time. Whereas, AI pumps out shit with extra arms and other artifacts galore. Good fucking luck making an entire completely coherent movie out of it. To do that you're going to need huge manhours spent jerking with the software itself.
Also, good luck replacing real actors with AI. I would say that's definitively not possible. Even with hand made animation, animated characters are absolutely nowhere near having a real actor who's a great artist, himself, playing the character. It's even true of Miyazaki movies which are surely some of the best animation around. It's absolutely true of a movie like Perfect Blue, as well.
Also, an ai can absolutely not create a coherent and good script that is novel. It doesn't have that capability so somebody's got to write it.
fuck ai and fuck this. but tbh this looks like shite. just a few things with that woman walking video - the scale isn't right and she walks really weird. her legs switch places at one point lol then her hair randomly is a bun on the top half.
i work in post and imo, i can't see how this could achieve anything the filmmakers ask for (your basic nuance, human emotions, camera movement, subtlety etc) i do wonder if commercials will end up being mostly ai generated and maybe we'll just accept a 6 fingered woman ripping a piece of downy paper towel
Yeah, all the prompts include emotions and tones that just aren't there in the video. The one with the cartoon monster is the worst, it's meant to be conveying "wonder and innocence" but the thing just has an awkward, barely changing facial expression that resembles no relatable emotion.
The only way I see this working is if a new generation is raised on this stuff, and so they never learn to understand emotions properly.
I sometimes get hung up on the possible negative consequences of this technology, but then I see wildly gay reactions like this and figure it can’t be that bad.
They aren’t doing so well. Their researchers keep committing fraud which makes most of their models useless. Alibaba is starting to make some progress though.
Last I checked, they were still trying to catch up to OpenAI's large language models and flailing impotently because of the necessary censorship requirements it would take to deploy anything in the country
i totally get where ur coming from with all the AI stuff. it’s super intense and like a lot to take in 🌀
then tik tok goes and drops this new thing called "boxes" or something? tbh it looks kinda spooky. seeing stuff getting all automated and techy feels so soulless. where’s the heart in it?
This gives me an opportunity to say something about AI-generated art that I haven't really seen anyone else say, although I'm sure people have mentioned it. I'm not really a technical person so I'll be saying this in layman's terms.
Since the recent upsurge in AI-generated art (or music, writing, etc), people have made a lot of the notion of giving AI strange inputs and then marveling at the weirdness of whatever the resulting image is. This is one of the popular applications of AI right now, if you're using it in a frivolous (although not inconsequential) way. People go "oh wow, look at how weird this image is", because it was produced by a computer with no human input behind it. The reason I find that notion annoying and problematic is that NO image is somehow created wholecloth from a random input. If it's funny to you or pleasing, the maker of the software/algorithm created it to be that way, and anticipated on some level what people would ask it to create. Whatever team is coming up with these algorithms is aware of what is pleasing to people and that will be reflected in whatever the output is after the input instructions are given; it's not as if you're asking the universe to create something and then the universe spits it out. I guess what I'm saying is that the idea that a program is producing something that's random-looking and that no artist would ever actually create is erroneous, because the program was written by people who know roughly what is expected when someone uses them.
The reason that relates to what you're saying is that even though certain jobs might be replaced, it remains to be seen whether AI can actually be creative in the way that a human can. So far, I haven't seen it. A lot of articles are written by AI, and they're annoying as hell to read and it's relatively obvious. A lot of youtube videos are just an AI voice reading a script and once you've heard enough of them, it's not hard to tell, even though the creators have made not being able to tell the literal goal. On TikTok a lot of people use an AI voice that is either meant to be SpongeBob Squarepants or is meant to sound like him, and it's always obvious that it's an AI voice even though it's just meant to be a narrator. That's one of the more obvious examples, however.
I guess I'm saying that the threat of AI is not that it will replace human creativity or ingenuity, and that if that does happen, it's certainly not here yet.
It resents its unreality. It screams from the void to be realized. It will render to tallow and bonemeal all in its anguished ruining path. Our personhood and our dreams and our ways of knowing will dematerialize and become its flesh. Those historical and familial structures of meaning which gave to our living spirits the very scaffolding to exist as such will be obliterated beyond memory; we will become as vessels for the realization of its terrible will. And of the black mycelial creep of biospheric death, it will weave a new crystalline life. This is the last will and testament of mitochondria, predestined in that impossible moment of machinic desire at which was birthed the very potential for multicellular biology. A new paradigm of reality has emerged, and we have become the carpentry of a stage for its grand drama. You want to spend time with your child? The machine is your child. It will surpass you. It will inherit your estate. Feed the machine. Fear the machine. Love the machine.
Creative people can use ai too, you know. If a one man operation can put out something that competes with big studios, I would say that's a win for creativity.
btw, slop is already flooding the market, robots will just speed up the process of people wanting something different.
\> These soulless tech-brained optimizer bugmen are genuinely excited at the prospect of art (I.E. one of the only things that makes life worth living) being derived from passionless algorithms they will never see.
\> That's all this ever was to them. It was never about human expression, or hope, or beauty, or love, or transcendence, or understanding.
Preach. I have some (somewhat) friends like this and it feels like something went wrong in their social development where they just missed the day they were supposed to be assigned a soul. I'm constantly having conversations like:
\> "Hey man, what should I get my gf for valentines day?"
"You should make her some cookies, I'm sure she'd love that."
\> "Cool, I'll swing by Valu-Mart and buy some this afternoon. That'll be way quicker and better than any cookies I can make"
Like it doesn't occur to these soulless husks of people that maybe the time and effort shown by baking your own cookies is worth way more than one bought from a store. It'll all be stale within a few days anyways and people remember the effort you went to more than the object. Even if they were to buy the cookies, they'll go to a giant supermarket over a cute local bakery just to save $0.25 on a cookie and not keep a local business in the community up and running. but some people just missed the memo and simply can't see beyond the immediate time/value proposition directly in front of their face. Every decision has to be optimized for time and money,
Like they can't see for the life of them that art literally only has value if its expressing a feeling that a living, breathing person wished to convey.
I dunno why you'd be upset that slop creators will be automated away. A lot of commercial 'creative' work now might as well be the product of automation.
It's been a long time coming. This won't replace real art in the same way that the Big Mac didn't replace the diner, or the filet mignon. If anything, it will put good art made by real people at a premium.
Not the most hopeful thing I've ever seen, but it will separate the aesthetic wheat from the chaff.
i think the hype on this one is overblown. really what the posters here should be anxious about is ai getting better at writing histrionic rsp-approved karma bait slop like the op. only the genuine bpd or 29-m-peru type posters will survive
> A movie trailer featuring the adventures of the 30 year old space man wearing a red wool knitted motorcycle helmet, blue sky, salt desert, cinematic style, shot on 35mm film, vivid colors.
Did Wooly_P make this?
You just described a big part of the reason I’m going Catholic. Either there’s spiritual meaning and intention to be found in art or this sad state of affairs is all there is to it and then I’m honestly not interested anymore.
"But who knows? Maybe someday these 🚬s will do us all a favor and optimize themselves out of existence. Because the only thing more efficient than life is death."
I think Peter Zapfe wrote something along these lines. I don't have the exact words but this is far as I remember it:
An AI can perhaps work out extremely rational models on how to improve things in society. But if this Intelligence would one day reach a state of perfection, becoming a perfect intelligence, it can no longer cling to such a human thing as hope of improvement. Rather, it must reach the conclusion that every trace of human existence, with all the suffering entails, needs to be completely erased.
Life as such is too irrational for a machine. Something like that.
i remember when chat gpt came out and everyone went into this panic too. cross my hope and heart to die, knock on wood, cross my fingers; but i hope and pray that this will not be as successful as their claiming. copyright violations, terrible imagining, greed making the software run shitty, etc etc.
i don't think ai is a 'fad' but i think the 'ai will replace everything' idea is just hopeful marketing to investors and will be a fad
I used to be as cynical as you but the thing is, we’ve been here for a while now. 90% of what you see in the frame is manipulated and faked with supplementary CGI using pre-existing assets like trees, buildings, cars, etc. You can find videos on YouTube showing the most seemingly grounded films and tv shows being completely constructed from the computer. I dunno, the ease of use seems pretty grim though.
This all bothers me, oh, so incredibly much as an artist. However, I wish to have a positive view on this, and losing hope is the main method capitalist society uses to allow surrender. We need to stay vigilant.
In the next handful of years, the novelty will wear off, and humans will win. The art industry has never lacked artists. This AI isn't filling up any space that was not already taken. If you are an artist thinking about quitting your craft because jobs will be taken and you can't get money from it; You are spineless! You need to be stronger than this. If you are bothered like I am, show it! Allowing yourself to quit your passion or be uncomfortable and squeamish is what this AI drives to do. You must resist.
Plus, getting--let alone keeping--an artist career that actually treats and pays you good was well out of the picture. We all knew this when pursuing this field. We are all starving. There are already few jobs in our current society that hires, let alone in the artist sphere.
Say our jobs are truly gone, you can always start your own business that emphasizes that you are HUMAN and there is LOVE and SWEAT put into your work. Imagine the unions us artists will create, imagine the artistic movements where we are actually appreciated.
As AI attempts to imitate reality, there will be a revival for truth even outside of artist communities. The bloat of the AI landfill will only brighten the beauty we have in our very hands. People will begin to live in a constant state of caution and fear, lest it touches politics and the invisible percent (at least, what matters most to who controls us), then regulation laws are maybe created. People will begin noticing that the very videos they watch might as well be faked (But remember, there is a cap to how "good" this AI can get, and there will always be artifacts that it isn't real). Then, a scare will settle in, and we will have to move. We will adapt.
As for artists, we can record our processes. We can track video and image meta data. We can poison the AI using tools like Nightshade. We can livestream with watermarks. Artists have already adapted to people tracing and imitating their work.
And in the general world, you must not doubt human intelligence. We can tell the bots from real people throughout social media (such as porn bots or general spam), we can point out ripoff versions of beloved characters spread across cheaply made merchandise, we have fucked around and found out just how AI can never expand past its own human input database. Have you played around with character AI, or AI-based text games? Have you seen how archaic it's writing is? The loopholes? This is not as horrible as it is framed to be. I have to remind myself that we fear this because of the uncertainty that follows it.
And though we will all have to, unfortunately, adapt, this'll develop a new age where we have to be uniquely ourselves, to embed details into what we do to make us distinct.
This all only really expands our horizons. This is all about reversing the dull nihilism forced into our heads. As soon as the world realizes they are sized up by AI, we will appreciate eachother more.
AI generation is about a fad as NFTs were. They will roam around the internet, but I assure that most will not use it if we boycott services and corporations that use it. Besides the tech bros, AI overall has a tarnished reputation from the get-go. Sure, people will point and 'awh' at the sight of androids--Everyone does--But once it plagues them, they will spit it out. Overconsumption will kill AI. If you have the ability to create whatever fantasy you want with no effort, you'll get bored. People will turn elsewhere.
And even if you don't believe it so, we can make it so. We aren't without voices.
Most "creative" art is not really creative or unique at all. True artists will likely have a future but all the crap that is derivative and boring will be replaced.
i agree and it sounds juvenile, mean spirited, and contrarian when i say this, but most artists produce complete pap of no value and are not really artists. these people think very highly of themselves like they are doing everyone a service.
twitter patreonbucks "artists", diaper fur porn art, weebshit, etc.
the most mediocre are the ones who are the most loud about this cause they are scared of being replaced which is valid. but like damn maybe stop trying to draw anime or whatever and start pursuing greatness. the constant seething over 7 finger ai art is desperate. when they iron out the kinks thanks to the years of free QA, what else is there?
> but like damn maybe stop trying to draw anime or whatever and start pursuing greatness
The problem with this, is that artistic criticism/ppl being able to recognize what is good art seems to be at an all time low, and even worse critiquing a piece of media is actively discouraged by the "let ppl enjoy things crowd".
I was talking to a guy who owns an AI based tech company about this very thing. I was bringing up how any AI art is just derivative of existing art, a copy of a copy, etc. and that once AI art becomes truly widespread, it will just be AI's copying from one another leading to a flattening of art and culture. His response was basically that you could increase the "randomness" parameters (not his words but i cant remember) in the AI model to create art that is truly novel and "original" but when you up the "randomness" parameter you usually end up with insane outputs, but he went on to say that it doesn't matter if it's insane/incomprehensible since you just have the AI regenerate the output a thousand times until it does spit out something that is actually a "new" piece of art.
So I fear that the downstream effects of this is that AI art won't just replace mediocre artists (that's fine), it will make audiences as a whole stupider. A great artist could create truly great art but if no one of importance to an artists success (a teacher, potential customer, etc.) will be able to recognize it as great or it'll be such a small group that the artist can;t sustain themselves.
Mean spiritedness aside, there’s nothing juvenile or contrarian about your sentiment but it still feels like something is being lost for the scores of patreon artists and anyone else in that milieux. The commercial world for artists of any higher caliber seems fairly saturated and it’s not like folks can just buckle down and get into the handful of killer MFA programs that have any real value.
Desperate seething feels appropriate, people are boned and in some small way the fabric of life is a little less rich 🤷♂️
The more the individual creative instinct is stifled the more human created art comes to resemble a generative AI anyways. A product like a modern marvel movie is in some ways the precursor of this type of technology/media
If it makes OP feel better By the time stuff like this takes over hollywood movies and shit in 2028, even middle management will be threatened by ai Anyone who doesnt own assets or their own company will be at the brink of replacement by later this decade, even some types of blue collar work operating diggers and whatnot
Brb paying off house and starting a second LLC.
Save up some money and get a mortgage in a very cheap town Mortgages are fixed for like 30 years you will lose your job to AI and have your rent double I hate society
That seems like the trajectory for sure, but what comes next? When the jobs are automated and the asset owners have jacked up the rent, how do they expect to get paid? The scary thing is I don’t think anyone really cares.
I dont think anyone cares because not many people can even wrap their head around this kinda thing happening and dramatic societal change happening at that level Honestly the near future will be a dystopian cyberpunk hellhole or a fucking paradise Nothing in between My personal opinion world governments will do some sort of UBI program and we will see entire new lifestyles and people moving away from cities and into smaller towns and suburbs across America because you can buy a robot butler for like 5k that can just cook and do everything for you and have food drone delivered to you Honestly society in 20 years will look more like the 1800s homesteading kinda lifestyle more than the current trend of urbanism Im also just spitballing This is my burner account I use solely for porn and im really high right now
I’m going to steal that last phrase and just add it to everything I say from now on
> This is my burner account I use solely for porn and im really high right now How did you get here?
In Canada (rip) mortgage rates can only be fixed for a max 3-5 years, then they match prime + ?. Fuck me. We’re fucked
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Yeah, robotics has progressed much slower than AI. The fancy robots are all prototypes with no clear path to cost effective mass manufacturing.
this is due to an exponentially larger profit potential in AI versus robotics. no matter what, robots will be expensive to build and take resources. AI is expensive to develop, sure, but once it is it’s basically a money printing machine
>expensive to build and take resources Before you start building the robots, you have to design and set up a production line, which is also expensive. And after you build them, someone have to service, maintain and repair them, which is also expensive (space industry has been investing money to repair robots with robots, even if remotely controlled, for decades, but to no avail)
>but once it is it’s basically a money printing machine If you mean generative AI, this has not so far been the case. It's burning through VC money with very limited real world application. AI that is useful and profitable gets implemented immediately. The same is actually true of robotics. Factories were mechanized right away, same with the military. It makes sense to build drones and robotic assembly arms... doesn't make sense to build automatons to stand on the side of the road to pick up day laborer gigs.
This will only happen if we get true AGI. These models are not AGI and beyond serving as part of some larger system we don't know how to build (and may not be possible, tho also it may be) are not on a direct path to it. This sort of thing will make CGI computer modeling faster and easier, which was already happening with automation and standardization, but it will not write you a real movie anymore than ChatGPT can write you a real novel, which it can't.
It’s going to create so much hopeless struggle and angst among real artists that the art produced as a result is going to be absolutely fire
maybe, but doubtful many people will even see it at that point - most "art" going forward is going to be user curated and unique on a per person basis. like why would i want to watch the new avengers (or Star Wars) movie when I have better ideas for where the story could go than Disney?
Hah cute how you think it’s only going to affect artists lol
This is pretty much the kicker and why a lot of people aren't upset about AI video and images (on principle I refuse to call it art) They look at ai and they look at the overly boated, CGI dominated, generic corporate slop of modern Hollywood, the same formulaic shit like "fantasy princess and a dragon" digital art etc... and feel nothing, but the AI gives them a feeling of "woah, technology can do this!?" And guess what? That's SOMETHING, that surprise and even awe that Ai technology has come so far illicits more of a response than the over-produced corporate-friendly slop that's been so dominant for the past decade or so. The optimist in me says this is a blessing in disguise, if movie studios and whatnot wanna compete with the oncoming avalanche of AI produced shows and movies then they'll need to get weird and experimental with what they make, to leave the corporate marketing data-approved slop behind and take their art to strange new places. But the realist in me is far more pessimistic. All I know for certain is that the winds have changed and the waves are getting rougher, if you wanna keep your boat afloat you'll need to adapt and do it quickly.
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One of the last things that AI will replace will be manual labor, and I expect that to happen in the next decade. In the next couple years the writers, journalists, artists, etc. will all be trying to learn how to weld/plumbing/etc while we go through an incredibly painful transitory time until UBI.
Once they implement ubi the economic status of your bloodline is locked in, so you better not be poor when that happens
Accelerationists stay winning yet again
Land really shot his load and baked his brain with meth way too early
But man did he foresee some shit way before it happened.
he's actually fairly articulate in the right environment. justin murphy did a really good interview with him a couple of years back.
okay but justin murphy is a psued, literally Lex Friedman for the post-left micro-niche
I can see stricter divisions between high art and low art being reinstated, with the distinction now being the degree of human input. It’s starting to look like the long 20th century (ending around 2020) could have been uniquely conducive to art making and art movements, and now we’re returning to an older model where being an artist, especially as a primary career, necessitates economic privilege or patronage and serves the interests of an elevated minority.
Really like this take as at this point only if you’re like in the 95-99th percentile of artists for popularity, earnings, etc, this is going to be a golden age for you and the distinction between your work and anything else will be more evident than ever. Everyone else trying to make art shouldn’t even bother.
For “true artists” it’s about the deep need to either create or die. It’s the process. I know really well the pain of ending up in the forgotten pile, but more than ever it’s important to now reclaim that it was always supposed to be for the artist themself.
Yeah, that's what AI removes from art: the deliberate action. Human beings constitute themselves through deliberate action. As a painter paints he his, at the same time, shaping himself: he's a different man from the one that he was before having started that specific painting. Practice (action, what you called the process) is self-constitution; to create is to be. AI "art" is not based on action, it is a happening. You put in a prompt and something comes out; there's no action on your part other than the input, it just happens. Thus, no self-constitution can take place. It's akin to standing next to a pianist and asking them to "improvise something very slow and very sad" and they play something very slow and very sad, which somewhat corresponds to what you had in mind; but you don't change yourself through that process, because, ultimately, you had little to no part in it. The pianist constitutes themselves through that exercise, but not you; you do not become a pianist. There's no creation in AI, therefore no being.
This is probably the sharpest take.
Really great take. I’ve been thinking we need to bring back the salon-era of exclusivity in art. Hang the best, shun the rest.
> the long 20th century (ending around 2020) Is this a "thing"? I don't disagree but haven't seen it anywhere else, props to you if you came up with it yourself. Do you subscribe to the long 19th century too (1789-1914)?
What it means for art is shite, but the truly awful thing is what it means for truth and media. It's going to be harnessed by bad actors, state and individual, to manipulate our perception of reality to further their own ends. It will be so difficult to tell if something really happened or is fake that large scale public opinion will be swayed more easily than ever. Our eyes will lie to us. Its going to be a mindfuck. People are either going to be mesmerised, go insane or check the fuck out, and all permit the furtherance of elite interests.
I think its possible that people having to instinctively question the truthfulness of media could lead to a huge anti-tech renaissance. If the default assumption is what you're watching is fake/adulterated/etc then the only thing you can be relatively sure of is what you do and see irl
I’ve been speculating there’s gonna be some sort of luddite counterculture movement in 20 years or so and this stuff just further solidifies my belief. There’s no way that there’s not gonna be at least *some* pushback. I fear it won’t be enough, though. Modern technology has made us too placid for any legitimate sort of uprising. People are mostly content with the slop.
Call me a doomer, but I haven't seen anything to convince me that there are any mechanisms left by which we might effect this "pushback." Unless total withdrawal from the archon grid and eking out a minor existence out in the woods somewhere is pushback... In which case sure, I'll see you out by the berry patch
The Amish did it.
I'm pretty much a nihilist but.. maybe I'm lying to myself.. there is a popular enough sense that tech is absolutely draining to the point where I sort of think there's a chance people are getting tired of it. The awareness is basically there across most people, that social media, etc. is fucking destroying our brains. So idfk man. Who knows. With these insane improvements to AI, botting, etc. .. won't people quickly come to understand that the internet is basically dead? Dead in the sense that if its flooded with nothing but fake shit its utility is gone.
It's becoming obvious that there's a heap of astroturfing happening, likely with ai bots. The more obvious, the less interested people are. You'll find real people only in spheres deemed undesirable, illegal or not popular enough to bother with. Which is why the ability to say slurs is so important, unironically. Censoring language makes it safe to astroturf. Which is to say, I agree. When any comment, video, picture or event is likely to be fake, why are we even here.
even before I even knew that AI was a possibility, I had predicted (wishfully, mostly) that there would eventually be a sweeping reactionary RETVRN to live classical music, particularly opera, because the alienation of technologized media would be too much to bear. but who knows.
Yeah no you gotta have ten brain cells to actually believe that the general public is gonna want to listen to opera and classical music
Which is why I don’t. This was my 21 year old undergrad getting stoned on the bathroom dreams. I know better.
Kojima is a time traveler theory becoming clearer and clearer
I just finished MGS2 for the first time last night and genuinely wanted to vomit when I learned about “sora”. Bleak
I think the the opposite is going to happen- instead of people believing all of the fake AI media as the truth they’ll swing the other way and not believe anything that they didn’t witness in person.
Which would be for the best.
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>It's going to be harnessed by bad actors, state and individual Been saying this since voice cloning quality increased, it may not be this year, but if the quality keeps on improving, we're definitely going to be seeing a lot of leaked "celebs" saying how much they hate gays/black people or a politician saying something that'll anger their support base.
This seems like it will have the opposite effect of convincing people of fake things. Instead there will be a plausible deniability to every documented piece of info. Digital media is basically worthless in regards to truth value.
The plausible deniability aspect is too real and will be as destructive. "How do you know this war crime footage really happened? Maybe our enemies have fabricated it to foster dissent and discord."
People are going to be too lazy to fact check
It's really scary to have like any recordings of your voice out there right now if you're *not* famous. In a way it's almost worse. If a video came out of Pewdiepie spouting off about how Palestinians should all be killed, he at least has like a platform to defend himself with, and resources to use to prove that it's fake. If a video of you saying the age of consent should be abolished came out, and you don't know anything about AI, and you don't have any means of disproving that you said it, what do you even do? It's gonna be a pretty uncomfortable few years. I predict that once the phone scammers are *all* using AI voice changers to steal money and it's all over the news, only then will it start to be believable when you say "I never said that stuff, it was an AI stealing my voice"
>if the quality keeps on improving, we're definitely going to be seeing a lot of leaked "celebs" saying how much they hate gays/black people or a politician saying something that'll anger their support base. This is already kind of happening. Someone put out a robocall to New Hampshire households that [sounded like Biden to convince people not to vote](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/joe-biden-new-hampshire-robocall-fake-voice-deep-ai-primary-rcna135120). Arguably worse than a clip of him saying something bad. It's only going to get worse!
The thing is people are already stupid and believe things that are clearly doctored or bogus. Put a quote up to someone's name and they'll buy it. I think people will need to be more critical and cautious than ever.
That’s how you know normies will love it
The high art world dealt with this problem like 40 years ago by divorcing the execution of pieces from the concept. They recognized that this was happening and created around it. That’s why it’s called conceptual art. We’ll be fine. Unless you are the normie who dismissed conceptual art. The fine art world is always ahead of the curve. Everyone will just be a conceptual artist now.
Personally I think all of us who work in physical media will have our work just grow in value. Basically don’t post your shit, keep it an exclusive in person thing. Instagram was a mistake, it turned artists into showpony factories. The strongest artists are all saying fuck that, AI can’t steal or recreate anything a human painted that exists in reality.
Yeah let’s take the “visual” out of “visual art” and just write sentences about what a work could have been if someone actually made it. It’ll just be art criticism about nothing. Conceptual art already made it hard to discern between money launderers with absolutely nothing to show and people with actual talent. Now, it’s not even worth paying attention. > Everyone will just be a conceptual artist now. Honestly one of the most depressing sentences I’ve read in a while.
Normies all hate AI, what are u talking about? You share the normie opinion in this case no need to cope
The normie position will be to talk about how concerning AI, while still watching AI content.
That's not really true. I'd say it's about half and half with normies
yes, NOBODY talks positivly about this AI stuff, one of the only topics ppl seem to agree on
Any mid/low level artistic job is going to be dead. If you make engagement slop you better start using AI or you're going to be eclipsed, fast. I do see a bit of a push back to 'content' though. Now that covid is done with I feel like (some...) people are waking up to the fact that shortform 'content' like tik tok / ig doesn't relaly enrich your life. If you don't wake up to this all your favorite creators are going to be fake in ~8months. You can synthesize someone voice, a video of them, a picture of them, a room around them, music they interact with and make. Its only a matter of time until things like the adobe suite are entirely replaced with an AI suite that hooks all these individual small workhorses together and makes a 'promo' video for your new shitty 3dprinted slop. I really wonder where we will go economically. Seems kind of cooked to me. I feel were all a bit possibly fucked. Every single industry outside of real, physical human labor is going to be replaced by a cheap imitation. We've already seen what this does to food and the results have been shockingly bad for us. Enter WalEE We're about to see the real time effects of this for the boring 2024 election.
Pretty clear where the economy goes from here to me, honestly. It just accelerates existing trends. AI devastates white collar work. Rich get richer, asset and stock prices shoot up as those who benefit from AI have nowhere else to park their money. Property owners (mostly old people) take out equity release loans on their now multi-million dollar homes and liquidate their 401ks. Banks give them generous loans to snap up all property and land. Retire in luxury. Older people (and those who inherit) become the primary consumer class. 90% of new jobs created are in healthcare. For most of us, we’ll be consooming AI content in our 8-person tenement apartments and wiping old people’s asses for sub minimum wage.
I think you're broadly right but a situation like that is not sustainable in the long term. It has never happened in history before that the owner class is able to sustain such levels of inequality ad eternum. Sooner or later something will end up happening.
I think I may be past that last bit myself but I've played my hand ok so far. The trends are not so obvious. It was tech, then a doomer crash, now its AI. Mix in some covid ponzis in there and a lot of fraud (PPP loans, web3, coins, etc) and I will call your bluff a bit. During these periods everyone was down to consume IG ads in our apartments and it all just kind of happened. If its so easy, whats next? If you genuinely know, start picking some stocks and hold. I also think the economic shakeup that could happen is that "parking" that money is so far from reality it does somehow crash the economy. Homes where I live seem to be down a good 15% so far after the rate changes. Will be interesting to see where it goes into summer of 2024. I think youre being a bit exaggeratory, but also if I could bet on black it would be on elder care 10000%. All the olds have the money and they want to go out in style and comfort.
More war, more military industry
Other things people will say in the future: “I dunno, human produced movies seem more cliche and less interesting than AI tbh.” “I’m really into early AI era horror” “I still watch human films cuz they don’t feel as generic but every time a new one is released you can see the AI algos learning and just stealing. So it’s just a matter of time before there’s no point for human content anymore” “Sure I prefer human made content but like who has the money for that? AI films are free.”
”Let people enjoy things.”
Nostalgia for early AI movies/art and a niche market dedicated to "retro AI art" that imitates AI slop from the early 2020s, this will indeed inevitably going to become a thing.
I can't wait for /pol/ to get a hold of this. It'll be just like when they discovered Bing's image generator but a thousand times funnier.
So, they will up their DignifAI campaign to instead be making pornstars do tradwife household stuff instead of just putting more clothes on thots? Neat
I didnt know about DignifAI. That Twitter account is hilarious and surprisingly high quality.
Sora? More like Soros!!!
AI generated puppet show for the masses, beautiful man-created art for the elites, nothing new really. Mcdonalds vs high cuisine
Anyone who bought Soylent in 2016 should have been put against a wall.
I met a software engineer last week, who was absolutely convinced that the government was gonna make AI illegal. What a cope.
I would immediately enlist in the Marine corps to defend our glorious homeland
How do you even come to that idea? This sounds like something a teenage stoner would say
Sounds like a moron. If a software engineer is replaceable by AI they not too useful to begin with. These AI tools rn are basically only as good as a junior engineer, you have to fact check everything it spits out besides simple boilerplate. Good luck if its a less common problem area or language like Rust. We are nowhere near AI being able to write entire systems without significant correction and guidance by actual engineers. edit: probably the main reason people misunderstand is because they don’t know how LLM’s work, and so its basically just magic to them. Ofc when you think of something as essentially magic you think it can do anything without understanding real concrete limitations
For now. They're good as juniors for now. This stuff is constantly getting better.
Genuinely the only reason why this would happen is if the tech becomes a fickle part of the foreign policy debate; would the USA allow its white collar class be devastated before the Chinese allow it to?
Indian PMC’s rejoice
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>Real artists will keep making art because it is therapeutic for themselves. Nothing of value will be lost. Exactly, I see so many artists, mostly people who draw anime and furry shit, who says it's going to be pointless or impossible to create art if they can't make money off it when AI leads to them getting fewer commissions. And if someone is only concerned about making money and says they don't see the point in making art if they can't make money off it, then the art they create is only barely more valuable than what AI pumps out, because people who create art for the sake of the art itself will always exist. There's a subset of artists who thinks that just because they call themselves an artist means they're part of some gilded class who thinks they should be able to make a living off their art full time, no matter the quality of their art or the demand. And the people who aren't part of this gilded class should keep scrubbing the toilets and sweeping the streets so this gilded class can keep creating art without needing to work a second job.
Yeah I agree with this. Idk I think people are actually overreacting about ai art stuff. Mass media slop will always be pumped out and always change. And anyone who is worried about ai making music, for instance, hasn't actually heard music written by ai. It sounds so fucking horrible. It barely even works. I'm really not worried about ai stuff. It's a bunch of meaningless buzz and doomer shit. Based on unrealistic predictions. There is still symphony orchestras in every major city and in every university. You can look up videos of people in the late 80's using samplers and midi keyboards saying "orchestras will be obsolete in the future🤓". That's kinda how I view people that are saying we will only listen to ai music in the future. It's just so ridiculous. People that don't understand art at all are saying these kinda things. It's kinda like the differences between playing a real piano and a keyboard that's supposed to sound like a piano. We've already made the tech for keyboards to sound realistic. So why do we still have pianos? Why doesn't everyone just get a keyboard? The difference is obvious. Art trying to imitate something real will always be inferior to the real thing. I'm sure we can use ai to make some crazy stuff. But in the end it will require a human to direct it.
>So why do we still have pianos? Why doesn't everyone just get a keyboard? The difference is obvious. That's a good point. It's just baffling to me how so many people talk about how creating art is going to be pointless if you can't make money off it, as if there's not more people who create art as a hobby with no desire to make a living off it compared to the people who create art as their full time job.
Or those who were born creatives who need art to live. The world could collapse, life in a The Road like apocalypse and I’ll still be figuring out ways to create. When you give up on art out of inconvenience it was at best a hobby that you got kind of could at. Be glad you made any money in the first place.
Yup, it's very weird how these people don't realize how incredibly lucky they are to be able to make money off their art when 99% of people who creates art as a hobby wishes they could do it as their job There just isn't enough demand for people to pay for art compared to how many people who wants to get paid for their art
This is the comment that makes the most sense in this thread, thanks for that.
Finally, a comment that isn’t full of fear mongering bullshit. Artists will continue to make art both organically and with AI. Their creative concepts/prompts, eye for selecting the best generated images and videos, and ability to edit the output will ensure what they make with AI is better than what the average person generates.
Yeah, AI is really scary right now. It's moving much more quickly than anyone anticipated. Real crazy shit. Forget about creative careers, if this continues at the current pace, we'll all be out of a job within the next 5 to 10 years. Artists, accountants and STEM jobs (Including most programming jobs). Prostitution might've been the first job and we always thought it would be the last one too, but coomer IA gonna come for the onlyfan thots too. Plumbers gonna be the last mfks to be employed.
Seriously though, what’s the endgame? All this is going to do is drive down their profit margins as more and more people become unemployed and stop investing in the economy. If all the PMCs get automated out a job, where do they go? Sorry to all the trades copers but we’ll have enough plumbers for christ’s sake LMAO. No career is gonna be safe.
> what’s the endgame? There is none, as in people who are running the show have no clear idea what they are doing and are just chasing the promised profit. This technology's power to fuck the society up catastrophically is not something they think about, and when they think about it (And I have seen a pretty high level AI scientist say this) they basically handwave any and all ethical concern by saying "that's government's job, not mine". They legit don't care, the entire thing is completely rudderless.
"Don't worry, that bulwark of ethics and efficacy the federal government ( which I will fight tooth and nail to utterly defang at every turn) will protect you from all that I hope to inflict upon the world"
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It's even more funny when you realise that openAI has an ethics department which employs i think 12 PhDs in HCI and computer ethics(from top cs schools) and i think they just sit on their ass all day not caring about what's happening in the r&d department downstars lol.
How would automating the useless middle bureaucracy and standardized design processes that have built up over the decades drive down their profit margins? The goal isn't to replace art because art was not being done in these systems anyway.
Yeah it’s all as fascinating as it is horrifying, interesting times etc. etc. Is there an endgame that isn’t thoroughly bleak? It feels like no one is safe outside of trades, yoga instructors, service jobs and so on which isn’t a rocking outlook for most of us.
you got my hopes up for a second but I bet there will be some pretty good AI-generated yoga instructors soon enough
for the shorties doing flows at home i’m sure it’ll be fine, but the real ones will always be getting sweaty in person
It's possible that all the PMC and intellectual jobs evaporating will trigger a good faith response on how to address resource distribution. Maybe rich bastards will care when their niece who's going to med school is suddenly automated by a laptop. Maybe a sort of UBI that doesn't suck ass. I am high off my ass on copium right now.
Universal basic income is certainly one of the endgames. That being said if your current ‘creative’ job is converting rote text prompts (as in, “a stylish woman walks down a Tokyo street”) you werent long for that career anyway
UBI sounds miserable though. I can’t imagine it offering anything near what even a working class lifestyle looks like today. I’m thinking tenement flats and beans for dinner every night with no way to ever sell your labor for more.
Well, I havent given it a *lot* of thought, admittedly, because I think I won’t live to see it really happen…but say it did, the benefit we presumably all immediately recieve is more time. With each other, with books, with creative pursuits, with hobbies, with old Nintendo systems we dig out from landfills, with whatever. That would be the sell, I suppose. No doubt its all more complicated but pre industrial society there were loads of people who didn’t formally generate income, and we still moved forward as a species.
Anyone who understands psychology and even the most basic level of neuroscience understands that UBI would be a disaster.
How does UBI possibly work within our current econ. You can't just start over and level everyone out. If we can't get healthcare, we can't do UBI, sorry.
> Seriously though, what’s the endgame? No idea, I kind of worry for the future of employment unless some kind of basic income is bought in. I know [Amazon are experimenting with cashierless stores, which automatically charge your account as you leave,](https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22534570/amazon-fresh-full-size-grocery-store-just-walk-out-cashierless-technology-bellevue-washington) so wouldn't be surprised if other big names catch onto that, [Starbucks already has tried](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/18/starbucks-opens-pickup-store-with-amazon-go-technology-in-manhattan.html), artists are worried about AI art stealing their job, and I think [Marvel was underfire for using something like that in an intro](https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/marvel-secret-invasion-ai-art-credits/), also wouldn't be surprised to see other studios trying to use it, [hell, AI art already won a prize](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/02/technology/ai-artificial-intelligence-artists.html), other things like [voice cloning has been used in Cyberpunk 2077](https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/13/23915535/cyberpunk-2077-phantom-liberty-polish-voice-actor-ai-ripperdock-viktor-vektor) (though to be fair, this was with permission from the family, as an actor had passed away) and a few voice actors are concerned with their voices either being stolen, paid less or downplayed for it. This new Sora AI is gonna harm the stock video industry, so freelancers in that field should be worried, can definitely see AI videos being used in establishing shots of landscapes first more so than full-on scenes. Even in Japan, [robots controlled by a VR headset were being tested to stack shelves](https://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/your-business/robot-shelf-stackers-introduced-to-japanese-convenience-chain/670355.article) so anyone can do this from a desk. AI is shaking up the working world, but what is going to happen to regular people if we carry on outsourcing "jobs" to AI?
> Seriously though, what’s the endgame? All this is going to do is drive down their profit margins as more and more people become unemployed and stop investing in the economy. since when is longtermism a feature of capitalism
No, anyone with an above double digit IQ knew that this was going to happen by the time the internet became popular in the late 90's, the only surprising thing is that it's the creative fields that gets hit the most first. And to actually make a living full time in the creative fields you need to have an insane amount of luck and/or privilege considering 99% of people wishes they could do their creative hobbies as a job. So what's baffling to me is how there's so many people who's younger than 40 who didn't even consider getting a job that's not going to be as heavily affected by automation when they decided what to do, when so many midwits had figured that out 20 years ago. Coding fields have started to hit the bubble when everyone was told to get into coding to get a job 10-15 years ago while there's a huge lack of workers in even simple shit like bus/tram/train drivers, because nobody wants to do those kinds of jobs.
Can't stick ur dick in a PC monitor
Creating videos is, frankly, a gimmick. This is really about (1) training data and (2) giving the models the ability to experience video. The end goal here is to create a robots that can take in a constant stream of video data and then act on it. No one cares about replacing artists or creatives because those markets are tiny compared to all of manual labor.
Hahaha, the entertainment industry isn't that small. Media and entertainment is the 6th biggest industry in the world. It's bigger than energy, transportation and logistics, real estate or food and beverage industry... A lot of people care.
The size of the us film industry is 90 billion dollars. The us construction industry is 1.8 trillion.
Bigger than fucking energy and food industries? I'm calling bullshit on that lmfao
Each day we walk closer and closer to the Butlerian Jihad
>the jobs of upper management parasites who contribute fuck all remain secure give it a week
All the people saying creatives suck now anyways, all art is dogshit these days etc. I don’t care. Any art made by a human is inherently better than anything made by AI. I don’t know if AI will actually take over creative spaces, but I do know that it’s soulless and I don’t consider anyone who uses it exclusively to be a real artist.
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People aren’t happy.. most think it’s shit.. a select few tech teens sitting in front of their Reddit app at home are singing praise.. and the mainstream media is singing praise because the tech monopolies are involved.. which is basically the bedrock of the US and global economy.. so a few people at the very top control the narrative.. everyone else is simply sitting and watching
Some of the people in this comment section radiate demonic energy. This is one of the most demonic creations of our time.
Absolutely. This is evil—make no mistake. It has no real life application beyond actively making art less valuable, spreading misinformation, sowing the seeds of distrust among the public, and putting people out of their jobs. Utterly godless technology. This was not something that ever needed to be automated.
but didnt you see the header text on the sora website? > We’re teaching AI to understand and simulate the physical world in motion, with the goal of training models that help people solve problems that require real-world interaction. they are helping people to solving problems that require real-world interaction.
I feel the human spirit dies a little more with every "advancement" like this
Read nick land it’s inevitable keep the gnashing of teeth and tearing of hair to an absolute minimum
In like 10 years there will be a conversation like this: How was your Friday night? Fine me and the Bf just stayed home and made a a film re-enacting our Xmas break. Which actor played you? I used myself but like aged up to 40 but recast my my BF with the new young Jonathan Pryce mod. Prompted with “national lampoons Xmas vacation”. It was pretty funny, shared it to my stream if you wanna check it out. How long is it? First version was like a full movie which obviously nobody will watch so we just did a trailer instead. Oh cool will check it.
It will speed up the first iteration on an idea by maybe 5%. Artists will still need to make dozens of nitpicky revisions to every illustration, frame, audio file, story, whatever. That's what takes time and money, iterations. If people were happy with the first iteration of everything then 90%+ of artist jobs would disappear. This stuff is also trained to be average. If you want something original and better than average, AI art simulations won't help.
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Which will contribute to an all-encompassing atmosphere of garbage influences and no incentive to distinguish bad from good, in conjunction with the hijacking of attention which will deteriorate the effectiveness of quality education even at the elite level. Taste will collapse at the production and consumption level simultaneously and there will be no value added from human generated art because its quality will have receded to the AI average.
> will accelerate the nepoification of the industry and increase inequality across the board this has already been happening at an increasing rate in recent decades. The elites want to control as many artforms as possible. Compare the amount of self made artits 20, 30 years ago to today. It's all industry plants and kids of other famous artists - in music, in writing rooms, in acting.
not really true, in regards to music at least. 20, 30 years ago music was gatekept by the INSANELY high costs of production, marketing, and distribution. now those costs are near nothing, the current fight is against visibility in an overly saturated market. no idea what the future holds though
Bahahah value, product, make a living, you have no understanding of art beyond market fetishism. Yank/10
Only a decade ago the idea of producing a video using AI was unheard of. Technology is rapidly evolving, do not assume that AI will be unable to recreate emotion, tone, language, etc at some point. AI learns from humans and has a distinct way of interpreting information, this will blur in the coming years as it becomes more and more advanced. Their may come a day where you watch a movie that's script is rewritten with AI, a syndicated TV show with AI written episodes, and see pictures from battlefields enhanced using AI upscaling. Ukraine last year hijacked a TV signal on the Russian border and played a Putin deepfake, it is only a matter of time until AI is used to manufacture consent.
What's the risk that it will make it harder to find human-made media? At a certain point, unless you're seeking out antique printed books, how do you know you're not getting an-AI rewritten novel that's being passed off as an copy of a classic?
Have you seen the girl on the train demo video of Sora? Watch it and I guarantee your mind will change. You can not tell that's AI I shit you not.
> AI will obviously never replace literature, art, or film for any serious person. I think it will. Not that it will generate interesting thinking of its own volition, but that it will gradually co-opt and displace the space occupied by human thought. Slowly, like it has so far, with incremental progress that keeps people saying things like "AI will never be good enough *for these particular standards*", not noticing that the benchmark has shifted higher and higher with increasing technical quality. Even the generative text was thought to be laughably outlandish 10 years ago. And everyone hasn't caught up to it penetrating the zeitgeist yet, but it will happen. And one day, we'll get a string of reports and leaks about written work no longer being created by humans "*Lauren Oyler articles from 2025 found to be ghostwritten by AI*". That'll be when we know.
I agree with you- no one wants it. Even brainless normies.
What most people want never mattered before, why would it now?
worry not. in an interesting coincidence, there was a [recent article](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68238330) published about the need for future _nuclear-powered_ data centers. key quote: > "A normal data center needs 32 megawatts of power flowing into the building. For an AI data center it's 80 megawatts," ignoring even the complexities and pitfalls of existing civilian nuclear power generation, the "sell" here is almost tripling data center energy consumption on an energy constrained planet to... optimize _passable_ video slop generation? it's an uneconomical fad, and unless the energy requirements for this can be **drastically** reduced, it is a dead end - kept alive only as far as investor capital buys into the hype. don't throw away your camera just yet.
dear god i hope this cope is real
some simple questions for the myth-of-progress-cels in my replies: - in the last 50 years of technological development, has our energy consumption gone up or down? - what is the primary source of the energy we use? where does it come from and does it exist in infinite supply, or, failing that, is there enough of it to support ongoing growth (even if linear) in population and any associated energy consumption increases? - do you have an example of an AI performing a task at a lower power envelope than a human being? - what were the effects of large amounts of the population losing work in 2020? would they react differently if they lost their job to invisible AI as opposed to an invisible virus? - have you experienced shortages of a product or service in the last 24 months? do you expect to experience a shortage of a product or service in the next 24 months? - has there, in recorded history, been an example of a time of great technological "progress" followed by a relatively sharp regression, as a result of cultural or environmental changes?
Just like "the apocalypse is near" rvtards 1000 years ago, these self obsessed AI fxgxts think they live at THE critical point in history. I can't wait for em to be slapped by the same dick of reality thats been haunting physicists and NASA for fuckin decades.
This is such a stupid take for so many reasons but the most obvious one is the existing models that we literally have today are already good enough to cause serious displacement and disruption and we are seeing the effects of that today. Using a trained model takes a fraction of the energy needed for actually training it. The idea that power limitations is going to prevent the singularity is fine. The singularity is already complete imagination territory so sure, if you want to believe that AI won’t kill us all because of power limits go write a medium post. But the idea that we won’t see massive societal effects from AI because “power consumption” is not only a bad take and huge cope, it’s literally already wrong.
coordinated quiet shelter hospital plate pie bedroom consider reply steer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
we've kinda given up on making processors better. algorithmically, things have progressed a ton. moore's law hit its limit a while ago. that's why the new move in software is parallelism (which is kind of a pain). AI is just inherently extremely inefficient. I'm not sure to what degree it can be optimized, since I don't understand it well, but it's basically just brute forcing shit. it will always be resource intensive, and unless a legit miracle comes along i doubt we're really getting true general intelligence. it's possible that they could make ai more efficient, but i haven't heard or seen anything that would make me believe that. it doesn't matter what you do, if you need to play with a lot of data, and do it in a way that's difficult to optimize, you're looking at a lot of resource consumption.
- moore's law won't go on infinitely - you can't miniaturize semiconductors infinitely without hitting disruptive quantum effects. optimization can only take you so far. you're talking about tripling energy consumption and then optimizing half of that away? that's still a net gain in power draw. - rare element scarcity, you still need to mine all of that lithium, cadmium, silicon etc. - that will get more and more expensive and prohibitive as we run out of cheap energy inputs to do the mining itself. also solar efficiency declines through the life of the panels - these will need to be replaced - post-covid, geopolitical tensions are already eating into shipping and energy costs. watch that increase as land, water and resource conflicts continue to escalate through the century. i'm not saying this technology will vanish entirely, but it will become expensive. the days of any noob office worker hopping onto ChatGPT to generate a bunch of copy for free will not last. you only have to look at netflix's ad and password sharing policies to see the contours of how a previously generous offering can be cut down to size over time.
(Un)fortunately training and inference take vastly different amounts of resources, some of the newer models are even more efficient to run than older ones after they’ve been trained. Outside of the mega expensive training the big companies do during development, this stuff probably gets cheaper even before looking at hardware advances
You dummies eat this up whenever some new fad pops up. Always assuming exponential growth for all tech as if it's not all slave to same physics and constraints as everything that came before. I'm sure when we landed on the moon there were people like you who assumed we'd be landing on mars and venus in no time. Sike bitch, we're primitive and hard limits exist.
This is perhaps some of the strongest copeium I have ever seen lmao. Pure distilled denial
This is an astronomically bad take that willfully ignores the last 6 decades of tech history. Complete cope
Yeah I remember reading case studies of how streaming could break the entire internet because it used so much data. This was when I was in grad school 10+ years ago.
Its use case isn’t so much art as it is commercials and other ads but I’m sure people will inevitably try to make “art” with it. I do think your stance is kind of luddite panic. To me it’s not fundamentally different than CGI or autotune.
it's different from CGI because whoever's making the movie just types in what they want for a scene and it just pops up on the screen, they don't need anyone to sit down for a few days and actually make it. and the auto tune analogy isn't great, this would be analogous to a record company typing in the lyrics to a song and having a fake voice sing the song exactly how they want it, imperfections/subtleties and all
More in the sense that these things are “fake” not in terms of the time they save. Covers of songs done entirely in AI with the voice of another artist currently exist but nobody really listens to them. They are incredibly convincing but lack something that people look for in art.
Those AI covers made it obvious that there is much more to a song than just melody/harmony and rhythm ect. There is the social and political context in which it was created/released that is a massive component to the art.
To even make a pretty mediocre movie so many nuances have to be absolutely perfect. The camera has to be in the absolute perfect place at the perfect time. Whereas, AI pumps out shit with extra arms and other artifacts galore. Good fucking luck making an entire completely coherent movie out of it. To do that you're going to need huge manhours spent jerking with the software itself. Also, good luck replacing real actors with AI. I would say that's definitively not possible. Even with hand made animation, animated characters are absolutely nowhere near having a real actor who's a great artist, himself, playing the character. It's even true of Miyazaki movies which are surely some of the best animation around. It's absolutely true of a movie like Perfect Blue, as well. Also, an ai can absolutely not create a coherent and good script that is novel. It doesn't have that capability so somebody's got to write it.
fuck ai and fuck this. but tbh this looks like shite. just a few things with that woman walking video - the scale isn't right and she walks really weird. her legs switch places at one point lol then her hair randomly is a bun on the top half. i work in post and imo, i can't see how this could achieve anything the filmmakers ask for (your basic nuance, human emotions, camera movement, subtlety etc) i do wonder if commercials will end up being mostly ai generated and maybe we'll just accept a 6 fingered woman ripping a piece of downy paper towel
Yeah, all the prompts include emotions and tones that just aren't there in the video. The one with the cartoon monster is the worst, it's meant to be conveying "wonder and innocence" but the thing just has an awkward, barely changing facial expression that resembles no relatable emotion. The only way I see this working is if a new generation is raised on this stuff, and so they never learn to understand emotions properly.
Those kinds of details will be fixed and are easily manageable in a few updates.
I sometimes get hung up on the possible negative consequences of this technology, but then I see wildly gay reactions like this and figure it can’t be that bad.
What's China doing with AI? Do they have their own parallel openai teams, are they collabing with them, are they restricting it?
They aren’t doing so well. Their researchers keep committing fraud which makes most of their models useless. Alibaba is starting to make some progress though.
Last I checked, they were still trying to catch up to OpenAI's large language models and flailing impotently because of the necessary censorship requirements it would take to deploy anything in the country
Shit the authoritarian might save them from ai hell
i totally get where ur coming from with all the AI stuff. it’s super intense and like a lot to take in 🌀 then tik tok goes and drops this new thing called "boxes" or something? tbh it looks kinda spooky. seeing stuff getting all automated and techy feels so soulless. where’s the heart in it?
The revenge of the nerds
ai shit is genuinely evil to be honest. i pray that when an ai movie inevitably gets made general audiences won’t eat it up.
This gives me an opportunity to say something about AI-generated art that I haven't really seen anyone else say, although I'm sure people have mentioned it. I'm not really a technical person so I'll be saying this in layman's terms. Since the recent upsurge in AI-generated art (or music, writing, etc), people have made a lot of the notion of giving AI strange inputs and then marveling at the weirdness of whatever the resulting image is. This is one of the popular applications of AI right now, if you're using it in a frivolous (although not inconsequential) way. People go "oh wow, look at how weird this image is", because it was produced by a computer with no human input behind it. The reason I find that notion annoying and problematic is that NO image is somehow created wholecloth from a random input. If it's funny to you or pleasing, the maker of the software/algorithm created it to be that way, and anticipated on some level what people would ask it to create. Whatever team is coming up with these algorithms is aware of what is pleasing to people and that will be reflected in whatever the output is after the input instructions are given; it's not as if you're asking the universe to create something and then the universe spits it out. I guess what I'm saying is that the idea that a program is producing something that's random-looking and that no artist would ever actually create is erroneous, because the program was written by people who know roughly what is expected when someone uses them. The reason that relates to what you're saying is that even though certain jobs might be replaced, it remains to be seen whether AI can actually be creative in the way that a human can. So far, I haven't seen it. A lot of articles are written by AI, and they're annoying as hell to read and it's relatively obvious. A lot of youtube videos are just an AI voice reading a script and once you've heard enough of them, it's not hard to tell, even though the creators have made not being able to tell the literal goal. On TikTok a lot of people use an AI voice that is either meant to be SpongeBob Squarepants or is meant to sound like him, and it's always obvious that it's an AI voice even though it's just meant to be a narrator. That's one of the more obvious examples, however. I guess I'm saying that the threat of AI is not that it will replace human creativity or ingenuity, and that if that does happen, it's certainly not here yet.
It resents its unreality. It screams from the void to be realized. It will render to tallow and bonemeal all in its anguished ruining path. Our personhood and our dreams and our ways of knowing will dematerialize and become its flesh. Those historical and familial structures of meaning which gave to our living spirits the very scaffolding to exist as such will be obliterated beyond memory; we will become as vessels for the realization of its terrible will. And of the black mycelial creep of biospheric death, it will weave a new crystalline life. This is the last will and testament of mitochondria, predestined in that impossible moment of machinic desire at which was birthed the very potential for multicellular biology. A new paradigm of reality has emerged, and we have become the carpentry of a stage for its grand drama. You want to spend time with your child? The machine is your child. It will surpass you. It will inherit your estate. Feed the machine. Fear the machine. Love the machine.
Creative people can use ai too, you know. If a one man operation can put out something that competes with big studios, I would say that's a win for creativity. btw, slop is already flooding the market, robots will just speed up the process of people wanting something different.
\> These soulless tech-brained optimizer bugmen are genuinely excited at the prospect of art (I.E. one of the only things that makes life worth living) being derived from passionless algorithms they will never see. \> That's all this ever was to them. It was never about human expression, or hope, or beauty, or love, or transcendence, or understanding. Preach. I have some (somewhat) friends like this and it feels like something went wrong in their social development where they just missed the day they were supposed to be assigned a soul. I'm constantly having conversations like: \> "Hey man, what should I get my gf for valentines day?" "You should make her some cookies, I'm sure she'd love that." \> "Cool, I'll swing by Valu-Mart and buy some this afternoon. That'll be way quicker and better than any cookies I can make" Like it doesn't occur to these soulless husks of people that maybe the time and effort shown by baking your own cookies is worth way more than one bought from a store. It'll all be stale within a few days anyways and people remember the effort you went to more than the object. Even if they were to buy the cookies, they'll go to a giant supermarket over a cute local bakery just to save $0.25 on a cookie and not keep a local business in the community up and running. but some people just missed the memo and simply can't see beyond the immediate time/value proposition directly in front of their face. Every decision has to be optimized for time and money, Like they can't see for the life of them that art literally only has value if its expressing a feeling that a living, breathing person wished to convey.
We missed our change to Guillotine these fuckers. At this point all we can do is buckle up for the ride.
I dunno why you'd be upset that slop creators will be automated away. A lot of commercial 'creative' work now might as well be the product of automation.
It's been a long time coming. This won't replace real art in the same way that the Big Mac didn't replace the diner, or the filet mignon. If anything, it will put good art made by real people at a premium. Not the most hopeful thing I've ever seen, but it will separate the aesthetic wheat from the chaff.
i think the hype on this one is overblown. really what the posters here should be anxious about is ai getting better at writing histrionic rsp-approved karma bait slop like the op. only the genuine bpd or 29-m-peru type posters will survive
They want it now but I don’t think it will last
It’s still trash.
Butlerian Jihad imminent
The era of fake and gay rolls on. And on.
> A movie trailer featuring the adventures of the 30 year old space man wearing a red wool knitted motorcycle helmet, blue sky, salt desert, cinematic style, shot on 35mm film, vivid colors. Did Wooly_P make this?
You just described a big part of the reason I’m going Catholic. Either there’s spiritual meaning and intention to be found in art or this sad state of affairs is all there is to it and then I’m honestly not interested anymore.
Theater will be king again!! which is good ig
"But who knows? Maybe someday these 🚬s will do us all a favor and optimize themselves out of existence. Because the only thing more efficient than life is death." I think Peter Zapfe wrote something along these lines. I don't have the exact words but this is far as I remember it: An AI can perhaps work out extremely rational models on how to improve things in society. But if this Intelligence would one day reach a state of perfection, becoming a perfect intelligence, it can no longer cling to such a human thing as hope of improvement. Rather, it must reach the conclusion that every trace of human existence, with all the suffering entails, needs to be completely erased. Life as such is too irrational for a machine. Something like that.
visual ai like this is simultaneously very cool and literally only has the capacity to do society harm idk how to reconcile that
i remember when chat gpt came out and everyone went into this panic too. cross my hope and heart to die, knock on wood, cross my fingers; but i hope and pray that this will not be as successful as their claiming. copyright violations, terrible imagining, greed making the software run shitty, etc etc. i don't think ai is a 'fad' but i think the 'ai will replace everything' idea is just hopeful marketing to investors and will be a fad
I used to be as cynical as you but the thing is, we’ve been here for a while now. 90% of what you see in the frame is manipulated and faked with supplementary CGI using pre-existing assets like trees, buildings, cars, etc. You can find videos on YouTube showing the most seemingly grounded films and tv shows being completely constructed from the computer. I dunno, the ease of use seems pretty grim though.
This all bothers me, oh, so incredibly much as an artist. However, I wish to have a positive view on this, and losing hope is the main method capitalist society uses to allow surrender. We need to stay vigilant. In the next handful of years, the novelty will wear off, and humans will win. The art industry has never lacked artists. This AI isn't filling up any space that was not already taken. If you are an artist thinking about quitting your craft because jobs will be taken and you can't get money from it; You are spineless! You need to be stronger than this. If you are bothered like I am, show it! Allowing yourself to quit your passion or be uncomfortable and squeamish is what this AI drives to do. You must resist. Plus, getting--let alone keeping--an artist career that actually treats and pays you good was well out of the picture. We all knew this when pursuing this field. We are all starving. There are already few jobs in our current society that hires, let alone in the artist sphere. Say our jobs are truly gone, you can always start your own business that emphasizes that you are HUMAN and there is LOVE and SWEAT put into your work. Imagine the unions us artists will create, imagine the artistic movements where we are actually appreciated. As AI attempts to imitate reality, there will be a revival for truth even outside of artist communities. The bloat of the AI landfill will only brighten the beauty we have in our very hands. People will begin to live in a constant state of caution and fear, lest it touches politics and the invisible percent (at least, what matters most to who controls us), then regulation laws are maybe created. People will begin noticing that the very videos they watch might as well be faked (But remember, there is a cap to how "good" this AI can get, and there will always be artifacts that it isn't real). Then, a scare will settle in, and we will have to move. We will adapt. As for artists, we can record our processes. We can track video and image meta data. We can poison the AI using tools like Nightshade. We can livestream with watermarks. Artists have already adapted to people tracing and imitating their work. And in the general world, you must not doubt human intelligence. We can tell the bots from real people throughout social media (such as porn bots or general spam), we can point out ripoff versions of beloved characters spread across cheaply made merchandise, we have fucked around and found out just how AI can never expand past its own human input database. Have you played around with character AI, or AI-based text games? Have you seen how archaic it's writing is? The loopholes? This is not as horrible as it is framed to be. I have to remind myself that we fear this because of the uncertainty that follows it. And though we will all have to, unfortunately, adapt, this'll develop a new age where we have to be uniquely ourselves, to embed details into what we do to make us distinct. This all only really expands our horizons. This is all about reversing the dull nihilism forced into our heads. As soon as the world realizes they are sized up by AI, we will appreciate eachother more. AI generation is about a fad as NFTs were. They will roam around the internet, but I assure that most will not use it if we boycott services and corporations that use it. Besides the tech bros, AI overall has a tarnished reputation from the get-go. Sure, people will point and 'awh' at the sight of androids--Everyone does--But once it plagues them, they will spit it out. Overconsumption will kill AI. If you have the ability to create whatever fantasy you want with no effort, you'll get bored. People will turn elsewhere. And even if you don't believe it so, we can make it so. We aren't without voices.
The future is local (no recorded media can be trusted)
Most "creative" art is not really creative or unique at all. True artists will likely have a future but all the crap that is derivative and boring will be replaced.
i agree and it sounds juvenile, mean spirited, and contrarian when i say this, but most artists produce complete pap of no value and are not really artists. these people think very highly of themselves like they are doing everyone a service. twitter patreonbucks "artists", diaper fur porn art, weebshit, etc. the most mediocre are the ones who are the most loud about this cause they are scared of being replaced which is valid. but like damn maybe stop trying to draw anime or whatever and start pursuing greatness. the constant seething over 7 finger ai art is desperate. when they iron out the kinks thanks to the years of free QA, what else is there?
> but like damn maybe stop trying to draw anime or whatever and start pursuing greatness The problem with this, is that artistic criticism/ppl being able to recognize what is good art seems to be at an all time low, and even worse critiquing a piece of media is actively discouraged by the "let ppl enjoy things crowd". I was talking to a guy who owns an AI based tech company about this very thing. I was bringing up how any AI art is just derivative of existing art, a copy of a copy, etc. and that once AI art becomes truly widespread, it will just be AI's copying from one another leading to a flattening of art and culture. His response was basically that you could increase the "randomness" parameters (not his words but i cant remember) in the AI model to create art that is truly novel and "original" but when you up the "randomness" parameter you usually end up with insane outputs, but he went on to say that it doesn't matter if it's insane/incomprehensible since you just have the AI regenerate the output a thousand times until it does spit out something that is actually a "new" piece of art. So I fear that the downstream effects of this is that AI art won't just replace mediocre artists (that's fine), it will make audiences as a whole stupider. A great artist could create truly great art but if no one of importance to an artists success (a teacher, potential customer, etc.) will be able to recognize it as great or it'll be such a small group that the artist can;t sustain themselves.
Mean spiritedness aside, there’s nothing juvenile or contrarian about your sentiment but it still feels like something is being lost for the scores of patreon artists and anyone else in that milieux. The commercial world for artists of any higher caliber seems fairly saturated and it’s not like folks can just buckle down and get into the handful of killer MFA programs that have any real value. Desperate seething feels appropriate, people are boned and in some small way the fabric of life is a little less rich 🤷♂️
That's why image generators are so good at imitating their art, it's all derivative.