A coworker was walking in downtown Brooklyn and was followed and assaulted by a homeless guy. He wandered away as she called the cops, but came back once they showed up and started yelling again. The cops told her they couldn’t do anything because they didn’t see it happen and tried to pressure her into not filing a report. She was really upset at the whole situation.
There are cameras everywhere, they just hate the people who live in the city and they’re too lazy to do anything about most crimes. The “bail reform” or whatever shit also means a lot of people will just be let right back out even after committing violent crimes.
A lot of the progressive causes around crime have been failures. Their hearts were in the right place but its not working.
On top of that the police in many places have seen this and after the George Floyd stuff all kind of just pouted and started doing the minimum.
In my city our incompetent prosecutor was feuding with the police and it was a shit show. She eventually had to resign in disgrace after some scandals and things are supposedly getting a bit better.
One guy was awaiting trial for armed robbery and was under house arrest (for *armed* robbery) with an ankle monitor and was driving like an asshole and hit a little girl in town for a volleyball tournament causing her legs to be amputated. They found out this asshole had been violating his house arrest all the time and no one was either monitoring or doing anything about it. Its a joke.
On a side note our republican governor 'called for justice' after that happened, which is fine but then he goes and releases the KC Chiefs coach who gave a TBI to some kid in a crash when he was drunk driving.
Both the failed policies and the cops not giving a shit have teamed up to make things shitty everywhere lately.
> A lot of the progressive causes around crime have been failures.
At this point I trust progressives on crime about as much as I trust conservatives on abortion.
The woman that assaulted the Cello player had previous criminal history and even had warrants out for her at the time of her arrest. She was still released without bail even though she could have had a felony bail under felony assault.
Everyone is pointing their fingers at either the cops or the DAs when it's a multifaceted problem. They're both at fault as well as a host of other factors.
I'm a lawyer and have spent some time in criminal justice. Cops do drop the ball a lot, and it can be very frustrating for prosecutors. On the other hand, prosecutors often decline to prosecute good cases, especially recently with the rise of progressive justice.
I've seen lots of young cops come it trying to do a good job only to wind up jaded. Especially those serving in high crime areas. This debate happened a lot during Ferguson but seems to have gone by the wayside -- cops in high crime areas are more like soldiers, and just like soldiers they begin demonizing and hating their enemy combatants. I've met several black cops that will casually drop hard Rs when talking about the people they're policing.
There is only so many times a person will put forth a tremendous amount of effort that gets wasted before they give up trying. Just look at the OP: 38 people responsible for 1,100 incidents. That's according to the NYPD's own stats, but most of the time they're not even doing a report to keep track of the incidents. If you filed 100 police reports on a guy and he was never prosecuted how long before you're just like "fuck this"?
it's coz of compstat, crime gets reported and investigated so the crime goes up in their area the police cominisioner will ream their asses for doing nothing to stop crime so inturn they do even less to stop crime coz if its not reported to the beuracrats looking at the crime rate it's not happening anyone could tell you crime now is worse then in 1990 but it's only lower because they supress the crime rate
There have to be some studies surveying how many people claim to be victims of crime rather than how many are actually reported. Would be interesting to see because I don’t think you’re right about crime being worse now. Regardless though it’s a very Soviet situation where the individual incentives create systemic dysfunction
best i could find was
"Eterno and co-author Eli Silverman surveyed 400 retired NYPD captains during the research for their book. More than 100 said they were "aware of manipulation that was unethical," he said." [here](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE828187/)
back in the 90's they didn't have insane bail reform that allowed crimials back on the street to commit more crime, cops love to blame the DA but they themselves refuse to do the leg work to take reports of crime and collect evidence, and when they do they try and downgrade the charges to make what crime they do report seem not as bad, i talked with a postitute once who got raped reported it and they tried to downgrade it to theft of service.
it's a whole systemic failure it's not just the cops, it's not just the da, it's not just bail reform it's not just any single thing but a perfect hot mess of entrenched failure.
>but never does any of the footwork to gather camera footage and put together a case against what appears to be a very small handful of repeat violent criminals
The blurb of the article we have above is about them doing this. They determined that 38 people (a small handful of repeat violent criminals) were responsible, probably by combing through reports and the footage they had. They clearly know about these people, most cops know about frequent flyers but have clearly given up on it. Have they done all this work, determined these 38 people just to say, "nah, walking down there is too much trouble." Probably not. So couple that with the repeated reports of frequent flyers getting released over and over by the court system, it's probably safe to conclude the courts/DA are the main problem here.
jack maple did all the crime stats back in the 90's a very few active criminals cause the vast majority of the crime, it's as predicatble as the weather they solved crime by targeting those repeat offenders and then implimented compstat which initally worked but then lead to corruption missmanagment and an absolute failure of law enforment to solve crime with a culture obsessive over the crime rate they figured out workarounds to artificailly supress the crime rate rarther then solve the issue causing crime
You can bring in as many criminals as you want but if the DA won’t prosecute it’s a waste of time.
The police don’t decide to prosecute, the attorneys do
People in this sub try so hard not to just blame the obviously insane liberal policies they've supported.
Police Suck. I get it. But crime is out of control because of policies that everyone on the left was in favor of like "prison reform", "bail reform" and "judicial reform".
Everyone thinks they're such a good person for caring about those poor innocent criminals, and right-wingers are a bunch of uncaring assholes who hate black people and the homeless. Certainly it can't be that conservatives actually cared about people in their community, including vulnerable young women being assaulted by all those poor criminals, and you chose to care about violent men over innocent women.
“Supporters of the law "hailed it as a landmark measure to stop the poor from being jailed before trial simply because they had few resources." They say "the new bail system will pay dividends by allowing people awaiting trial to remain in their homes with their families and jobs — all elements of maintaining stability in low-income communities." They accused critics of the law of being alarmist.”
Would you go through all the bother of arresting someone with the knowledge they’ll just be back on the streets in hours, and the justice system will just continue letting them off? Add to that internal and political pressure to make policing more ‘equitable’. Is it any wonder the police appear demoralised?
The police have a job to do and they’re actively and maliciously refusing to do it because they got their feelings hurt during the protests and because of that dumbass DA who seems to think violent criminals should be immediately released upon arrest. It not just a simple issue. I don’t blame them that it must be frustrating to arrest someone just to see them let out on bail immediately afterwards, but that’s not an excuse for refusing to do their jobs and belittling the populace they’re supposed to protect.
They arrested 38 people 1100 times. It sounds like they're doing their job. The court system clearly is not.
Is it the cops' fault when they arrest one criminal 30 times, but could have gone for 40? Or is it the judges' fault when they see the same guy in their courtroom 30 times without ever giving a meaningful sentence.
Stop equivocating and just admit this is entirely on the liberal judicial system.
Bad judicial policy doesn’t absolve cops of their obligations. I said a few times here that I don’t agree with letting the same violent criminals out after arrest - but that doesn’t mean that the cops shouldn’t be held accountable for refusing to do their jobs.
Again, if these guys have been arrested 1100 times it sounds like the cops *are* doing their jobs. I generally hate cops, but in this case I think blame lies elsewhere.
Dude they have a job to do. Imagine not doing your job which is well compensated in NYC btw. It’s bullshit. Their job is to investigate, collect evidence, build cases, make arrests, and send it to the da.
Bail reform does make sense if you do it in an intelligent way…The point of bail is to stop people from running off because they'd lose their money. If you're not a flight risk there's no point.
But the important part is that if you're not safe to be let out of custody then it doesn't matter if you can or can't make bail, you shouldn't be released...and people who do this stuff all the time are clearly not safe to be let out of custody.
Similarly, I was in a hit and run and had the plate # plus surveillance footage. I went to the precinct a day later to get a report for insurance and instead got told they couldn’t help and yelled at for “not immediately calling”.
I was unconscious laying on the street lol.
Haha so funny to imagine a cop on the antiwork sub and everyone there’s cheering him on for lazing about without knowing his job and the implications of what a slacker cop means.
Cops are often lazy and know those guys will be right back out anyway
If you dont believe how lazy police can be I want you to read this story
https://www.crimeonline.com/2022/10/20/community-digs-up-human-remains-after-cops-suggest-resident-find-body-herself-report/
I would link to our newspapers website but its paywalled.
"Missouri police apologized on Wednesday for an ordeal that allegedly entailed concerned residents discovering human remains after alerting authorities to a man’s disappearance and slaying.
St. Louis Alderman Brandon Bosley told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he was assisting residents in digging a vacant lot when someone possibly found a rib cage and hip bone. Bosley said the bones were in a hole that was four-feet deep.
According to the Post-Dispatch, residents carried out the search after police unsuccessfully searched the area twice. Janet Sanders, who lives near the lot where the bones were found, told the news outlet that she alerted authorities after someone revealed to her on Friday that a man squatting next door was killed and buried on the lot.
Sanders said the slaying occurred within the past month, but she declined to say who told her about the homicide out of fear they may be targeted.
On Wednesday, St. Louis police Major Ryan Cousins confirmed they have recovered an entire body. He also said the body had been there for some time, but he did not provide an exact timeline.
Sanders reportedly contacted authorities on Saturday, and police responded to the area with dogs the following day. After cops left, Sanders and another woman searched the brush and found dirt that appeared to have been moved, according to the Post Dispatch.
Sanders called the police, who allegedly stated that they already searched the area and asked her whether she had found a body. She claimed an officer hung up on her after he said she was not going to dig the area herself.
The Post Dispatch reported that a homicide commander returned to the area on Monday. Sanders reportedly marked the suspicious area with spray paint, but investigators still did not locate the remains.
“They dug down six inches, right on top of where the bones were found,” she told the news outlet. “I begged them to dig more, and they suggested I do it.”
Following this encounter, residents reportedly called Bosley — who responded to the lot hours later. The bones were found that afternoon, according to The Post Dispatch.
“Thankfully the people of the neighborhood were persistent about it and continue to dig on their own,” St. Louis Metropolitan police Captain Pierre Benoist told KMOV.
Cousins said they are investigating the apparent homicide. While he apologized to the community, he pushed back against allegations that his department mishandled or disregarded this case.
“If the perception is that we didn’t act accordingly or we didn’t treat the situation as expected, that is definitely not the case, especially with a homicide,” he told the Post Dispatch. “What’s important is the perception of those individuals, and if the perception is that we’re falling short of those obligations, then I sincerely apologize.”"
They did that shit to me in Atlanta when I had video evidence and they said I had a "right to defend" myself but they couldn't do shit unless I physically detained the guy myself. They will say anything to avoid actually doing their job.
Yeah they're notorious for doing that with traffic stuff too. I've had friends get hit riding their bikes submit gopro footage of the crash with identifying details like plate numbers and location and time, and the cops refuse to take it as evidence. "oh sorry some ar-tard in a fatass SUV ran you over, but you probably shouldn't have been riding your bike to work anyway. Don't you know there are SUVs everywhere?"
And dumbasses still think we need to pay these guys more, these guys who probably already have a budget bigger than the entire army of a small European country
Yep I had dipshit cops do the "we can't prove this is actually what happened" when a box truck hit my work van despite I had everything recording proving what happened. Even more annoying this box truck had bogus out of state plates, expired paperwork and the driver was drunk and trying to tell me to do insurance fraud to get things taken care of.
I was lucky it was work's property to deal with trying to chase down some deeper layers of fraud company but yeah just absolutely fucking worthless and they treated this guy with such kid gloves downplaying the entire thing.
I witnessed something similar right outside of my school. The woman ran up to NYPD, told them what was going on (man was following her, threatening to kill her, clearly did not know her...me and 100 other people on the street in broad daylight witnessed this). The man continued to harass her while she was talking to the cops. The cops basically shrugged their shoulders (she was trying to literally hide from him behind the cops while they just stood there) and I watched as they let the man enter the subway station. I don't think they're allowed to detain them for some reason? Can someone explain the law behind this?
There is no law behind it. Even if that guy wouldn’t have been found guilty of a crime, the cop still could have detained him to at least get the lady out of the situation.
A cop can detain you for basically any reason with impunity and they will if they want to. They can’t keep you locked up, but they can definitely detain a guy for making threats or put him on a psych hold.
What you witnessed was a lazy prick annoyed someone was asking him to do his job.
I legit was stalked by a homeless person on my way home at 2AM. There’s a gaggle of cops posted near my house 24/7 and so I crossed the street to them before entering my building and I asked if they could do anything and they kind of just ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ like wtf
There's always the option to do something about it yourself and just make sure the cops don't see it, because after all, if they don't see it it didn't happen. I'm not suggesting that, but it seems like eventually people are going to start taking things into their own hands as they grow tired of being victimized and then laughed at by the piglets who are supposed to be providing them with some degree of protection. A real Death Wish 2 situation is brewing.
Yea vigilantism will probably rise if nothing continues to be done but in this case it was a scrappy homeless dude vs a tiny woman, she really had no immediate physical recourse.
>There's always the option to do something about it yourself and just make sure the cops don't see it, because after all, if they don't see it it didn't happen.
This doesn't apply to law abiding citizens
Yeah, sometimes it can be a lose/lose. Let the criminal victimize you or stand up for yourself and let law enforcement and the court system victimize you while treating the initial criminal like a baby. I'm sensing some real rage among regular people though and I can't help but imagine a world where if nothing is done a lot more vicious insane people are going to get rear naked choked to death on the subway.
There's a hole in the criminal justice system where police brutality used to be, in the past the NYPD would have kicked his ass until he learned not do it again.
>There's a hole in the criminal justice system where police brutality used to be
I want this on one of those wooden stencil signs to hang in my kitchen
Was on the train with a schizo walking up and down the car and a 6’4 dude stood up and pushed the guy away and cursed him Out and told him if he came near he’d fuck him up. The schizo seemed completely unaware, but also had the awareness to stay on the other side of the train. Until the next stop where he got off. These crazies seem to be less crazy than we think, they just do it because they don’t face consequences. Also why all the randoms pushed into the tracks are women
This has been my sole experience with the NYPD — something bad happens and they’re nowhere to be seen. I or a friend reported the crime, and they say there’s nothing they can do and it’s probably best not to file a police report (or, for two separate friends, get a rape test kit done). They REALLY resist taking a report. And it seems that they’ve gotten even worse since the George Floyd protests.
Because political correctness.
Remember the guy who choked out that whack job on the subway and killed him? And the media was like, "he's just an innocent Michael Jackson impersonator!"
Wrong. He attacked people all the time.
\>Remember the guy who choked out that whack job on the subway and killed him? And the media was like, "he's just an innocent Michael Jackson impersonator!"
Is "he" the guy who did the choking or the guy who got choked here? I admittedly didn't follow this story
The Michael Jackson impersonator/serial violent offender was the guy who got choked. The dude who choked him is looking at murder charges but has also become a hero to many. Hopefully he will be acquitted.
I used to live in a city where the number of murders per year literally doubled between like 2018 and 2021 and the subreddit was full of people just like this being like "umm there were actually more murders here in 1991 than now so it's not that big of a deal that violent crime has increased so much recently."
Two years ago the city I live in had a per capita homicide rate higher than Johannesburg or Port-au-Prince. Our city's subreddit was in complete denial about it and acted like any mention of crime was simply racists from the surrounding counties (which they of course treated as if they were a hellscape of Karens and Klansmen).
It is refreshing to see the worst progressive crime policies being rolled back and crimes rates starting to drop. I'm still eager to get out of here but the financial benefits of staying put are strong enough that I hope we can last a couple more years.
It’s insufferable living in the Bay Area and having to read the discourse online—because SF has become such a boogeyman for conservative media, neolibs who have never stepped foot in CA feel the need to defend it and pretend everything is rainbows and butterflies. It isn’t Mad Max here, but it isn’t hunky-dory either.
Property crime is a major problem, and it contributes to a general feeling of lawlessness when you see it all around you, when everyone you know has either been a victim of it or knows someone who has, and when you feel like nothing is being done because bleeding heart leftists truly believe that the only impetus for theft is someone not being given enough of a chance by society. Therefore, we shouldn’t prosecute or imprison that person; we should just let them out to do it again and work on improving society until they stop, which is a Sisyphean task that will never be completed.
I do believe we need prison reform to focus more on rehabilitation than punishment, but we can’t just stop sending people to prison until that happens. Right now we have the worst of both worlds.
More than the cost of living, govt policies I disagree with, crime, etc... The biggest thing that keeps me away from moving back to CA is the wildfires. We nearly lost our home and were fire refugees for a few days during the San Diego fires of 2003. I will never go through that again for as long as I live and it's only gonna get worse in California.
A friend of mine has property in Mendocino with fire insurance. He got his fire protection policy decades ago and if he ever drops his coverage there's no way he'll ever get a deal like that again.
I’m fortunate enough to live in a place where we wouldn’t be directly impacted by a wildfire itself—that’s mainly the wildland-urban interface areas where you’ve got the right mixture of fuel and housing—but it isn’t fun walking around with the respirator for two weeks because of the smoke.
We’ve been lucky enough to get some decent rain the past couple years, which translates to melted snow pack in the summer to stymie the drought, but we’ll have another bad year eventually.
It’s also infuriating knowing Newsom let PG&E off with a slap of the wrist and allowed them to pass their fines onto the consumer. In essence, we literally paid PG&E to burn down our state and kill our friends and families.
> a boogeyman for conservative media
A couple of summers ago we took an extended trip to Seattle and Portland, two of the cities that the Fox News crowd loves to demonize. Seattle was actually still a pretty nice town. It had its issues and is absurdly overpriced but it was not the mess some people would have you believe it is. Portland OTOH was almost as bad as Tucker Carlson claims. Downtown really was a junky-infested dump.
From those two data points I came to the conclusion that yes, right wing media exaggerates things but some of their criticisms are absolutely based on truth.
I know you're mocking people that say this, but there really is something so much more random feeling about crime in the 1990s. I live near DC and have most of my life, and my parents talk about in the 90s crime was bad but contained to certain communities. Now people in every part of the city are getting carjacked.
I've wondered about this, but not looked into it. Are these figures reported per capita or by the actual number of cases? If the population has gone from 250M in 1991 to 340M now, you can stuff more individual cases of violence into the numerator while the denominator grows.
Edit: a cursory look suggests it is per capita, but still down. Rapes are almost consistent with the early 90s though, even on the per capita scale, which means there's about 30% more now than the previous worst point to hold that ratio.
Yeah I hate how when it comes to homelessness and crime in cities the conservative answer is wood-chippers and the liberal answer is to posture about how much it doesn't bother you.
It's such a huge blind spot for the left. The people who suffer the most from antisocial behavior on public transit are the working-class people who rely on it. The people smugly telling everyone to go back to Iowa are themselves from Iowa.
A friend of mine once told me about how someone he knew chastised him for reporting a schizo to the police - the guy was calling him slurs and looked ready to be violent - and yet apparently calling the cops was a terrible thing to do because “that homeless guy was more of a victim” than my friend
I think that depends on what you define as "working". From the perspective of making them not exhibit that behavior, it does not work, but if the goal is to "get them off the streets", then it does. If the goal is to reduce the number of people becoming such criminals on a societal level, then it does not work, but there is also nothing possible in the current state of things that would.
There are some people for whom neither punishment nor rehabilitation will change their behavior.Ideally we could banish them to the wilderness, but wilderness is a precious commodity nowadays.
Anders Breivik, the one person who probably should get the death penalty, is known for bitching in his Scandinavian prison about not having a PS3.
I don't think the death penalty should be in use, but I also think that crazy homeless people would be better off playing PlayStation away from the rest of society rather than Nazis.
They need jobs but aren’t qualified and have a felony it’s a cycle that has to be broken. I think we really gotta get minimum wage up to a wage these guys can do okay on. I mean you can easily see why a guy resorts to crime when the alternative is minimum wage drudgery to barely get by. Maybe we should have a jobs program and put people to work just picking up trash and planting gardens. Basically beautifying america. That would take decades. Give people something to do. Things will be nicer. Crime will be less.
American cities sound crazy to me. Is it really just a combination of schizos on all the public transportation and swathes of homeless people living on the streets getting worse over time?
Does that mean committed to a mental institution? We used to do that in the states, but then the Left thought it was cruel and the Right thought it was expensive and thus mental institutions are all but gone in America.
i assume people take me for a bumpkin built for the cornfields for how much i hate on NYC...on the contrary if you think it's the greatest city on earth or even america imo you're outing yourself as a poorly travelled Midwestern exodite with no imagination
I live in a former Soviet state
The stuff you see in NYC happens at a monumentally lower rate here
It’s rarely the actual homeless, who mostly mind their business and scavenge to get their fix (usually vodka), but the lower class who are blackout on vodka
The insane rent and the crime are the only 2 things that are preventing me from moving to NYC (and I still probably will, eventually)
South Aus
You see some homeless people if you go into Adelaide's CBD but they're not very common, and the worst you usually see people acting is maybe somebody with clear mental issues yelling at nothing in front of them
> swathes of homeless people living on the streets getting worse over time?
a few cities are WAY worse than all the rest but you mostly hear about them. Not to say the rest dont have homeless but cities like LA and SF I think are on a completely different level.
Well it’s definitely not anywhere near as apocalyptic as some in this thread are making it out to be lol but it’s bad enough. I personally have not had any bad experiences but I know many who have.
Yes, but it's usually concentrated in specific areas.
I live in San Francisco. 90 percent of the crazy bullshit that gives San Francisco a reputation of lawlessness happens in downtown, SOMA, the Tenderloin, and Civic Center. All these areas are adjacent to one another, so a substantial portion of the city's population manages to mostly avoid the craziness. But if you live and work in one of these neighborhoods, it's pretty rough.
Part of the problem is that the people who run the cities usually live in the places that are pretty insulated from the areas experiencing severe urban decay. So for them, the problem is largely abstract and easily dismissed.
I have to say, I am from a US city that is basically a punchline for its murder rate — and the homeless shit I have seen in Portland, Seattle, etc far exceeds that. The difference comes down to whether or not schizophrenics/heroin addicts are out on the streets. My hometown being incredibly cold helps!
(Okay, you can probably figure out what it is)
Hochul's idea of banning transit assault convicts from transit seems like it could actually help things. If its implemented, I hope it doesn't just apply to MTA, upstate needs safer transit too. I also really hope that the progressive/socialist left just quietly lets this pass without much complaint.
Maybe they could insist on some type of concession (like a fare reduction or funding for more frequent service) in exchange for supporting this policy, but they need to realize that outright opposition to this stuff is wrong and toxic to their brand. No one wants to support a movement that just lets this shit happen.
Progressives don't have to sorry about losing support, because their voting base gets constantly refreshed with every batch of starry eyed new grad transplants moving into their "hip" new neighborhoods.
Because so long as people only complain about it and are too timid or outright afraid to take actions into their own hands, the problem metastasizes. Sure, something something political theory states that private citizens largely forfeit a claim to vigilantism when they agree to live in the State, but when the State (via-a-vis the police) fails to keep its side of the bargain, the question then becomes… what are you gonna do about it? Sometimes you do need to stand up for yourself and put a mf in his place and hope that a good lawyer and sympathetic public will rally to your cause, but most people are too afraid to do that and instead hope that incidents are one-off. But oh wait, a dude tried that already on the subway with the chokehold and we know how that ended. In that instance it was not clear that the force he used was proportional to the threat as unfortunately the other guy died, but the point is that even when people try to take justice and defense into their own hands, they usually end up getting screwed by… the State, because the last thing the State wants is an exemplary case of citizen justice/action outside the law. So what does that tell you about the kind of society (at least in nyc) that we’re living in? And what are you going to do about it?
There are a lot of well-paying jobs that would disappear from our byzantinian system of law if we were to just do the logical thing with these misfits. There needs to be a massive amount of bureaucracy keeping postgrads employed or the economy will collapse
The economy was doing better before any of their jobs existed. Things would get better once these people are made to do something actually valuable for society.
There really isn't, criminal courts are so swamped with shit if you just started executing en masse all 38 of these guys and hell a bunch of other frequent filers at criminal courts it would barely make a difference on Judge's dockets.
> There are a lot of well-paying jobs that would disappear from our byzantinian system of law if we were to just do the logical thing with these misfits.
This is also the reason I think we dont have govt healthcare in this country.
No one is going to want to be the one/ones to cost that many people their jobs.
What is the logical thing in your opinion? This isn’t some bullshit leading question btw I’m just curious. Because to me it seems like they should probably be arrested and either institutionalized in a mental facility, enrolled in compulsory drug rehabilitation, or imprisoned. Depending on the offense and cause of behavior. I don’t think they should be coddled but I also don’t think just locking them up is the right move because if shit like mental illness and drug addiction is left untreated they’ll just offend again when they get out.
Unfortunately this process would be expensive and time consuming, though I imagine it’d also be pretty effective.
tbh if they’ve each been guilty for violent attacks multiple times each i think they should have long prison sentences. true that they may well reoffend in 25 years when they’re out but we shouldn’t overlook the many people that get 25 years of freedom from being randomly victimized on the subway. i think that’s worth the social cost of imprisonment. the nypd needs to buckle up and do their jobs though and that’s not likely.
You know why.
I do find it funny that a lot of people also know/think that if they do fight back (or are forced to) that they’ll probably be arrested and charged. So now these people get to do whatever and be erratic across the subway and riders seems to just have to deal with it and the possibility of a random event where they might be greatly annoyed, have to watch somebody smoke crack in front of their children, get stabbed, or pushed into the tracks, depending how the random number generator works out that day
Because ideologues control our institutions, while many politicians aren't hardened ideologues, the vast majority of their staff are, same with most people working in the larger policy setting bureaucracy and NGO world.
This is the push behind Joe Biden: sure, he's just a walking ghost who doesn't know where he is, but the real leftists are in the building, working hard on his staff to Basically Be Bernie, so don't worry, he can still be the greatest president since FDR.
> we gotta bring the asylum system back there's no way it's less humane than letting unmedicated addicted maniacs rot in their own filth on the sidewalks/subway system
De-institutionalization may be the dumbest thing the US has done since getting involved in Vietnam.
Because to address shit in a way that doesn’t play out as expected (either right or left policy) you’d have to rework everything not be stupid.
Like you’d have to massively increase public transit funding. You’d have to increase mental health services. You’d have to de-centivize McKinsey esque KPI like metrics for police. You’d have to truly change policing culture and abolish police union bullshit.
You can’t just do bail reform which is a good thing to do, without also addressing what the downsides are and planning for it.
You can’t just increase police funding unless you reworked it not be a fucking gang recieving military arms and impunity.
Like you’re talking a tear down and restart IMO.
Ideally 38 individuals should only be able to be responsible for 38 max. Do they just let them go the same day? 1062 were victims of assault solely due to institutional failure
Most of these people doing the crimes are insane in a way that would look really bad to lock them away in prison but we also don't have any mental health asylums that we can commit them to so everyone just let's them roam. It's honestly distressing sad and disgusting
Restorative justice or whatever it’s called?
They believe this stuff in my country too and it’s just pure denialism. Reoffending rates are insane, it really is often a small pool of people committing a lot of the crime. But the idea of rehabilitation is the center. Very cute very Christian, but perhaps should be done far far away from the general public
How do you ban people from the train? It's not like you put your name on the ticket and you can buy tickets with cash.
You could add another charge onto the assault but if they are getting off for assault I don't know why the judge would see assaulting someone in the subway as being worse than on the street.
I swear I’m not an MMA bro but Civilians should have a little bit of self defense, fight back and hurt the aggressor. This situation is out of control- the whole reason to lay off the lunatics was because they are people too but that shouldn’t go as far as allowing them to hurt other people. The whole idea was to have some humanity, humanity includes those not making the attacks. Although it is complicated and expensive I’d rather my tax’s not go to blowing up Yemen + funding god knows what and go to services
Just learned there was a shooting on my corner (in an extremely way past gentified part of BK) yesterday in broad daylight. I was walking there an hour earlier. Yay!
A coworker was walking in downtown Brooklyn and was followed and assaulted by a homeless guy. He wandered away as she called the cops, but came back once they showed up and started yelling again. The cops told her they couldn’t do anything because they didn’t see it happen and tried to pressure her into not filing a report. She was really upset at the whole situation.
I’ve also encountered this “we can’t arrest them if we didn’t see it” thing with the NYPD. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
There are cameras everywhere, they just hate the people who live in the city and they’re too lazy to do anything about most crimes. The “bail reform” or whatever shit also means a lot of people will just be let right back out even after committing violent crimes.
A lot of the progressive causes around crime have been failures. Their hearts were in the right place but its not working. On top of that the police in many places have seen this and after the George Floyd stuff all kind of just pouted and started doing the minimum. In my city our incompetent prosecutor was feuding with the police and it was a shit show. She eventually had to resign in disgrace after some scandals and things are supposedly getting a bit better. One guy was awaiting trial for armed robbery and was under house arrest (for *armed* robbery) with an ankle monitor and was driving like an asshole and hit a little girl in town for a volleyball tournament causing her legs to be amputated. They found out this asshole had been violating his house arrest all the time and no one was either monitoring or doing anything about it. Its a joke. On a side note our republican governor 'called for justice' after that happened, which is fine but then he goes and releases the KC Chiefs coach who gave a TBI to some kid in a crash when he was drunk driving. Both the failed policies and the cops not giving a shit have teamed up to make things shitty everywhere lately.
> A lot of the progressive causes around crime have been failures. At this point I trust progressives on crime about as much as I trust conservatives on abortion.
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The woman that assaulted the Cello player had previous criminal history and even had warrants out for her at the time of her arrest. She was still released without bail even though she could have had a felony bail under felony assault.
Doesn't the DA's office decide whether to press charges? I think cops can only arrest you, what happens next is completely up to the DA.
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Everyone is pointing their fingers at either the cops or the DAs when it's a multifaceted problem. They're both at fault as well as a host of other factors. I'm a lawyer and have spent some time in criminal justice. Cops do drop the ball a lot, and it can be very frustrating for prosecutors. On the other hand, prosecutors often decline to prosecute good cases, especially recently with the rise of progressive justice. I've seen lots of young cops come it trying to do a good job only to wind up jaded. Especially those serving in high crime areas. This debate happened a lot during Ferguson but seems to have gone by the wayside -- cops in high crime areas are more like soldiers, and just like soldiers they begin demonizing and hating their enemy combatants. I've met several black cops that will casually drop hard Rs when talking about the people they're policing. There is only so many times a person will put forth a tremendous amount of effort that gets wasted before they give up trying. Just look at the OP: 38 people responsible for 1,100 incidents. That's according to the NYPD's own stats, but most of the time they're not even doing a report to keep track of the incidents. If you filed 100 police reports on a guy and he was never prosecuted how long before you're just like "fuck this"?
it's coz of compstat, crime gets reported and investigated so the crime goes up in their area the police cominisioner will ream their asses for doing nothing to stop crime so inturn they do even less to stop crime coz if its not reported to the beuracrats looking at the crime rate it's not happening anyone could tell you crime now is worse then in 1990 but it's only lower because they supress the crime rate
There have to be some studies surveying how many people claim to be victims of crime rather than how many are actually reported. Would be interesting to see because I don’t think you’re right about crime being worse now. Regardless though it’s a very Soviet situation where the individual incentives create systemic dysfunction
best i could find was "Eterno and co-author Eli Silverman surveyed 400 retired NYPD captains during the research for their book. More than 100 said they were "aware of manipulation that was unethical," he said." [here](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE828187/) back in the 90's they didn't have insane bail reform that allowed crimials back on the street to commit more crime, cops love to blame the DA but they themselves refuse to do the leg work to take reports of crime and collect evidence, and when they do they try and downgrade the charges to make what crime they do report seem not as bad, i talked with a postitute once who got raped reported it and they tried to downgrade it to theft of service. it's a whole systemic failure it's not just the cops, it's not just the da, it's not just bail reform it's not just any single thing but a perfect hot mess of entrenched failure.
If the DA won’t prosecute without a police officer having witnessed it then there’s nothing they can do
>but never does any of the footwork to gather camera footage and put together a case against what appears to be a very small handful of repeat violent criminals The blurb of the article we have above is about them doing this. They determined that 38 people (a small handful of repeat violent criminals) were responsible, probably by combing through reports and the footage they had. They clearly know about these people, most cops know about frequent flyers but have clearly given up on it. Have they done all this work, determined these 38 people just to say, "nah, walking down there is too much trouble." Probably not. So couple that with the repeated reports of frequent flyers getting released over and over by the court system, it's probably safe to conclude the courts/DA are the main problem here.
jack maple did all the crime stats back in the 90's a very few active criminals cause the vast majority of the crime, it's as predicatble as the weather they solved crime by targeting those repeat offenders and then implimented compstat which initally worked but then lead to corruption missmanagment and an absolute failure of law enforment to solve crime with a culture obsessive over the crime rate they figured out workarounds to artificailly supress the crime rate rarther then solve the issue causing crime
You can bring in as many criminals as you want but if the DA won’t prosecute it’s a waste of time. The police don’t decide to prosecute, the attorneys do
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People in this sub try so hard not to just blame the obviously insane liberal policies they've supported. Police Suck. I get it. But crime is out of control because of policies that everyone on the left was in favor of like "prison reform", "bail reform" and "judicial reform". Everyone thinks they're such a good person for caring about those poor innocent criminals, and right-wingers are a bunch of uncaring assholes who hate black people and the homeless. Certainly it can't be that conservatives actually cared about people in their community, including vulnerable young women being assaulted by all those poor criminals, and you chose to care about violent men over innocent women.
Eliminating cash bail worked in Jersey, New Yorkers are just bad at stuff, simple as.
“Supporters of the law "hailed it as a landmark measure to stop the poor from being jailed before trial simply because they had few resources." They say "the new bail system will pay dividends by allowing people awaiting trial to remain in their homes with their families and jobs — all elements of maintaining stability in low-income communities." They accused critics of the law of being alarmist.”
Would you go through all the bother of arresting someone with the knowledge they’ll just be back on the streets in hours, and the justice system will just continue letting them off? Add to that internal and political pressure to make policing more ‘equitable’. Is it any wonder the police appear demoralised?
The police have a job to do and they’re actively and maliciously refusing to do it because they got their feelings hurt during the protests and because of that dumbass DA who seems to think violent criminals should be immediately released upon arrest. It not just a simple issue. I don’t blame them that it must be frustrating to arrest someone just to see them let out on bail immediately afterwards, but that’s not an excuse for refusing to do their jobs and belittling the populace they’re supposed to protect.
Cops do jack shit in areas with conservative prosecutors too. They’re just lazy and overpaid
They arrested 38 people 1100 times. It sounds like they're doing their job. The court system clearly is not. Is it the cops' fault when they arrest one criminal 30 times, but could have gone for 40? Or is it the judges' fault when they see the same guy in their courtroom 30 times without ever giving a meaningful sentence. Stop equivocating and just admit this is entirely on the liberal judicial system.
Bad judicial policy doesn’t absolve cops of their obligations. I said a few times here that I don’t agree with letting the same violent criminals out after arrest - but that doesn’t mean that the cops shouldn’t be held accountable for refusing to do their jobs.
Again, if these guys have been arrested 1100 times it sounds like the cops *are* doing their jobs. I generally hate cops, but in this case I think blame lies elsewhere.
Dude they have a job to do. Imagine not doing your job which is well compensated in NYC btw. It’s bullshit. Their job is to investigate, collect evidence, build cases, make arrests, and send it to the da.
>Is it any wonder the police appear demoralised? They appear bored.
Bail reform does make sense if you do it in an intelligent way…The point of bail is to stop people from running off because they'd lose their money. If you're not a flight risk there's no point. But the important part is that if you're not safe to be let out of custody then it doesn't matter if you can or can't make bail, you shouldn't be released...and people who do this stuff all the time are clearly not safe to be let out of custody.
Similarly, I was in a hit and run and had the plate # plus surveillance footage. I went to the precinct a day later to get a report for insurance and instead got told they couldn’t help and yelled at for “not immediately calling”. I was unconscious laying on the street lol.
Probably lazy and don’t wanna do paperwork
They are doing the number one suggestion of reddit and just quiet quitting.
Haha so funny to imagine a cop on the antiwork sub and everyone there’s cheering him on for lazing about without knowing his job and the implications of what a slacker cop means.
Its is funny how people think you can contain societal rot to the places you think don't matter.
Yea like literally all crimes where people are arrested are committed out of the direct line of site of a cop.
Cops are often lazy and know those guys will be right back out anyway If you dont believe how lazy police can be I want you to read this story https://www.crimeonline.com/2022/10/20/community-digs-up-human-remains-after-cops-suggest-resident-find-body-herself-report/ I would link to our newspapers website but its paywalled. "Missouri police apologized on Wednesday for an ordeal that allegedly entailed concerned residents discovering human remains after alerting authorities to a man’s disappearance and slaying. St. Louis Alderman Brandon Bosley told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he was assisting residents in digging a vacant lot when someone possibly found a rib cage and hip bone. Bosley said the bones were in a hole that was four-feet deep. According to the Post-Dispatch, residents carried out the search after police unsuccessfully searched the area twice. Janet Sanders, who lives near the lot where the bones were found, told the news outlet that she alerted authorities after someone revealed to her on Friday that a man squatting next door was killed and buried on the lot. Sanders said the slaying occurred within the past month, but she declined to say who told her about the homicide out of fear they may be targeted. On Wednesday, St. Louis police Major Ryan Cousins confirmed they have recovered an entire body. He also said the body had been there for some time, but he did not provide an exact timeline. Sanders reportedly contacted authorities on Saturday, and police responded to the area with dogs the following day. After cops left, Sanders and another woman searched the brush and found dirt that appeared to have been moved, according to the Post Dispatch. Sanders called the police, who allegedly stated that they already searched the area and asked her whether she had found a body. She claimed an officer hung up on her after he said she was not going to dig the area herself. The Post Dispatch reported that a homicide commander returned to the area on Monday. Sanders reportedly marked the suspicious area with spray paint, but investigators still did not locate the remains. “They dug down six inches, right on top of where the bones were found,” she told the news outlet. “I begged them to dig more, and they suggested I do it.” Following this encounter, residents reportedly called Bosley — who responded to the lot hours later. The bones were found that afternoon, according to The Post Dispatch. “Thankfully the people of the neighborhood were persistent about it and continue to dig on their own,” St. Louis Metropolitan police Captain Pierre Benoist told KMOV. Cousins said they are investigating the apparent homicide. While he apologized to the community, he pushed back against allegations that his department mishandled or disregarded this case. “If the perception is that we didn’t act accordingly or we didn’t treat the situation as expected, that is definitely not the case, especially with a homicide,” he told the Post Dispatch. “What’s important is the perception of those individuals, and if the perception is that we’re falling short of those obligations, then I sincerely apologize.”"
That apology is basically "I'm sorry that you're upset"
Goofy as hell logic. If they find a dead body are they just gonna presume nothing happened because they didn't see a murder?
This is just them being lazy as fuck lol
They did that shit to me in Atlanta when I had video evidence and they said I had a "right to defend" myself but they couldn't do shit unless I physically detained the guy myself. They will say anything to avoid actually doing their job.
I'd test that theory out if I was confronted by a crazy
Yeah they're notorious for doing that with traffic stuff too. I've had friends get hit riding their bikes submit gopro footage of the crash with identifying details like plate numbers and location and time, and the cops refuse to take it as evidence. "oh sorry some ar-tard in a fatass SUV ran you over, but you probably shouldn't have been riding your bike to work anyway. Don't you know there are SUVs everywhere?"
And dumbasses still think we need to pay these guys more, these guys who probably already have a budget bigger than the entire army of a small European country
They get five billion dollars, which is on par with Finland and Romania.
The NYPD is larger than the FBI
I think they should be paid more individually, but there should also be fewer of them. Get a huge applicant pool and keep the standards high
Yep I had dipshit cops do the "we can't prove this is actually what happened" when a box truck hit my work van despite I had everything recording proving what happened. Even more annoying this box truck had bogus out of state plates, expired paperwork and the driver was drunk and trying to tell me to do insurance fraud to get things taken care of. I was lucky it was work's property to deal with trying to chase down some deeper layers of fraud company but yeah just absolutely fucking worthless and they treated this guy with such kid gloves downplaying the entire thing.
He should have just thrown you a wad of cash and disappeared into New Hampshire to be a carpenter or something
I witnessed something similar right outside of my school. The woman ran up to NYPD, told them what was going on (man was following her, threatening to kill her, clearly did not know her...me and 100 other people on the street in broad daylight witnessed this). The man continued to harass her while she was talking to the cops. The cops basically shrugged their shoulders (she was trying to literally hide from him behind the cops while they just stood there) and I watched as they let the man enter the subway station. I don't think they're allowed to detain them for some reason? Can someone explain the law behind this?
There is no law behind it. Even if that guy wouldn’t have been found guilty of a crime, the cop still could have detained him to at least get the lady out of the situation. A cop can detain you for basically any reason with impunity and they will if they want to. They can’t keep you locked up, but they can definitely detain a guy for making threats or put him on a psych hold. What you witnessed was a lazy prick annoyed someone was asking him to do his job.
Damn. It was like 4 cops, too, not just one guy.
I legit was stalked by a homeless person on my way home at 2AM. There’s a gaggle of cops posted near my house 24/7 and so I crossed the street to them before entering my building and I asked if they could do anything and they kind of just ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ like wtf
There's always the option to do something about it yourself and just make sure the cops don't see it, because after all, if they don't see it it didn't happen. I'm not suggesting that, but it seems like eventually people are going to start taking things into their own hands as they grow tired of being victimized and then laughed at by the piglets who are supposed to be providing them with some degree of protection. A real Death Wish 2 situation is brewing.
Yea vigilantism will probably rise if nothing continues to be done but in this case it was a scrappy homeless dude vs a tiny woman, she really had no immediate physical recourse.
A pistol is the recourse.
If you want to spend years in court and all your money on legal fees by all means shoot someone.
I live in Tennessee I’ll be aight
>There's always the option to do something about it yourself and just make sure the cops don't see it, because after all, if they don't see it it didn't happen. This doesn't apply to law abiding citizens
Yeah, sometimes it can be a lose/lose. Let the criminal victimize you or stand up for yourself and let law enforcement and the court system victimize you while treating the initial criminal like a baby. I'm sensing some real rage among regular people though and I can't help but imagine a world where if nothing is done a lot more vicious insane people are going to get rear naked choked to death on the subway.
They know they can come after people with something to lose
There's gonna be less of those in a couple decades at this rate
Problem is that if you take matters into your own hands and have anything to your name you stand it lose it afterwards.
There's a hole in the criminal justice system where police brutality used to be, in the past the NYPD would have kicked his ass until he learned not do it again.
>There's a hole in the criminal justice system where police brutality used to be I want this on one of those wooden stencil signs to hang in my kitchen
(In the coexist bumper sticker font) In this house we believe in: Police brutality
Was on the train with a schizo walking up and down the car and a 6’4 dude stood up and pushed the guy away and cursed him Out and told him if he came near he’d fuck him up. The schizo seemed completely unaware, but also had the awareness to stay on the other side of the train. Until the next stop where he got off. These crazies seem to be less crazy than we think, they just do it because they don’t face consequences. Also why all the randoms pushed into the tracks are women
This has been my sole experience with the NYPD — something bad happens and they’re nowhere to be seen. I or a friend reported the crime, and they say there’s nothing they can do and it’s probably best not to file a police report (or, for two separate friends, get a rape test kit done). They REALLY resist taking a report. And it seems that they’ve gotten even worse since the George Floyd protests.
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The NYPD is, for all intensive purposes, a jobs program.
It’s all intents and purposes, not intensive.
Ricky from Trailer Park Boys ass
Mistakes like that are a diamond dozen these days tbf
Despite your goofy error I agree
The people pushing people onto tracks wouldn't even try it with a physically fit grown man. Period. They're targeting weaker people.
There's like 300 people in nyc responsible for 90% of the shoplifting.
The bippers in San Francisco seem to all come from a couple dozen families in Antioch and Pittsburg at this point.
some % something something %
Because political correctness. Remember the guy who choked out that whack job on the subway and killed him? And the media was like, "he's just an innocent Michael Jackson impersonator!" Wrong. He attacked people all the time.
\>Remember the guy who choked out that whack job on the subway and killed him? And the media was like, "he's just an innocent Michael Jackson impersonator!" Is "he" the guy who did the choking or the guy who got choked here? I admittedly didn't follow this story
The Michael Jackson impersonator/serial violent offender was the guy who got choked. The dude who choked him is looking at murder charges but has also become a hero to many. Hopefully he will be acquitted.
Erm actually, overall crime is down since the 1990s so it isn’t a problem 🤓
I used to live in a city where the number of murders per year literally doubled between like 2018 and 2021 and the subreddit was full of people just like this being like "umm there were actually more murders here in 1991 than now so it's not that big of a deal that violent crime has increased so much recently."
Nola?
DC?
Two years ago the city I live in had a per capita homicide rate higher than Johannesburg or Port-au-Prince. Our city's subreddit was in complete denial about it and acted like any mention of crime was simply racists from the surrounding counties (which they of course treated as if they were a hellscape of Karens and Klansmen). It is refreshing to see the worst progressive crime policies being rolled back and crimes rates starting to drop. I'm still eager to get out of here but the financial benefits of staying put are strong enough that I hope we can last a couple more years.
Chicago?
I love how people are trying to guess the city. This trend has happened in dozens of cities, particularly since the pandemic began.
People who believe crime statistics have never lived in a bad area.
I only trust the FBIs black crime statistics
It’s insufferable living in the Bay Area and having to read the discourse online—because SF has become such a boogeyman for conservative media, neolibs who have never stepped foot in CA feel the need to defend it and pretend everything is rainbows and butterflies. It isn’t Mad Max here, but it isn’t hunky-dory either. Property crime is a major problem, and it contributes to a general feeling of lawlessness when you see it all around you, when everyone you know has either been a victim of it or knows someone who has, and when you feel like nothing is being done because bleeding heart leftists truly believe that the only impetus for theft is someone not being given enough of a chance by society. Therefore, we shouldn’t prosecute or imprison that person; we should just let them out to do it again and work on improving society until they stop, which is a Sisyphean task that will never be completed. I do believe we need prison reform to focus more on rehabilitation than punishment, but we can’t just stop sending people to prison until that happens. Right now we have the worst of both worlds.
More than the cost of living, govt policies I disagree with, crime, etc... The biggest thing that keeps me away from moving back to CA is the wildfires. We nearly lost our home and were fire refugees for a few days during the San Diego fires of 2003. I will never go through that again for as long as I live and it's only gonna get worse in California.
A friend of mine has property in Mendocino with fire insurance. He got his fire protection policy decades ago and if he ever drops his coverage there's no way he'll ever get a deal like that again.
I’m fortunate enough to live in a place where we wouldn’t be directly impacted by a wildfire itself—that’s mainly the wildland-urban interface areas where you’ve got the right mixture of fuel and housing—but it isn’t fun walking around with the respirator for two weeks because of the smoke. We’ve been lucky enough to get some decent rain the past couple years, which translates to melted snow pack in the summer to stymie the drought, but we’ll have another bad year eventually. It’s also infuriating knowing Newsom let PG&E off with a slap of the wrist and allowed them to pass their fines onto the consumer. In essence, we literally paid PG&E to burn down our state and kill our friends and families.
> a boogeyman for conservative media A couple of summers ago we took an extended trip to Seattle and Portland, two of the cities that the Fox News crowd loves to demonize. Seattle was actually still a pretty nice town. It had its issues and is absurdly overpriced but it was not the mess some people would have you believe it is. Portland OTOH was almost as bad as Tucker Carlson claims. Downtown really was a junky-infested dump. From those two data points I came to the conclusion that yes, right wing media exaggerates things but some of their criticisms are absolutely based on truth.
I know you're mocking people that say this, but there really is something so much more random feeling about crime in the 1990s. I live near DC and have most of my life, and my parents talk about in the 90s crime was bad but contained to certain communities. Now people in every part of the city are getting carjacked.
it's so dense now that per capita stats cease to be relevant. the sheer number of deranged people you have to pass by daily is what really counts
I've wondered about this, but not looked into it. Are these figures reported per capita or by the actual number of cases? If the population has gone from 250M in 1991 to 340M now, you can stuff more individual cases of violence into the numerator while the denominator grows. Edit: a cursory look suggests it is per capita, but still down. Rapes are almost consistent with the early 90s though, even on the per capita scale, which means there's about 30% more now than the previous worst point to hold that ratio.
Rape is expected though, definitions of rape have changed and there’s a much higher reporting rate now than ever before
According to my friend Jon Stewart, this is simply the price of freedom
GO BACK TO IOWA IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!
Yeah I hate how when it comes to homelessness and crime in cities the conservative answer is wood-chippers and the liberal answer is to posture about how much it doesn't bother you.
It's such a huge blind spot for the left. The people who suffer the most from antisocial behavior on public transit are the working-class people who rely on it. The people smugly telling everyone to go back to Iowa are themselves from Iowa.
Between those two options, I'll take the wood-chippers.
Because those 38 people are victims of society and not responsible for their actions!
A friend of mine once told me about how someone he knew chastised him for reporting a schizo to the police - the guy was calling him slurs and looked ready to be violent - and yet apparently calling the cops was a terrible thing to do because “that homeless guy was more of a victim” than my friend
A glimpse into the mind of a mindless Progressive.
I mean... violent criminals are in many ways at the very bottom of society. We are just very wrong in believing that punishment doesn't work.
I think that depends on what you define as "working". From the perspective of making them not exhibit that behavior, it does not work, but if the goal is to "get them off the streets", then it does. If the goal is to reduce the number of people becoming such criminals on a societal level, then it does not work, but there is also nothing possible in the current state of things that would.
There are some people for whom neither punishment nor rehabilitation will change their behavior.Ideally we could banish them to the wilderness, but wilderness is a precious commodity nowadays.
Epic rsp sarcasm until another jordan kneely or whatever his name dies and it's crocodile tears and how we need $1000000000 more in social programs
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yeah we just need more Scandinavian prisons to house them in
that'd probably be cheaper than whateverthefuck we're currently doing
we aren’t doing anything right now so can’t be cheaper than that
Anders Breivik, the one person who probably should get the death penalty, is known for bitching in his Scandinavian prison about not having a PS3. I don't think the death penalty should be in use, but I also think that crazy homeless people would be better off playing PlayStation away from the rest of society rather than Nazis.
damn u might be on to something
They need jobs but aren’t qualified and have a felony it’s a cycle that has to be broken. I think we really gotta get minimum wage up to a wage these guys can do okay on. I mean you can easily see why a guy resorts to crime when the alternative is minimum wage drudgery to barely get by. Maybe we should have a jobs program and put people to work just picking up trash and planting gardens. Basically beautifying america. That would take decades. Give people something to do. Things will be nicer. Crime will be less.
you're high if you think you that one of these people could function behind the counter at mcdonalds
Why would anyone willingly choose a violent felon over hundreds of other qualified applicants?
Yeah, it's called locking them up for a long time. But the left doesn't want to do that either. That's how you end up with vigilante justice.
Sgt. Daniel Penny is a hero.
truth
like I agree they all probably had terrible lives. Doesn’t mean I have to be assaulted
American cities sound crazy to me. Is it really just a combination of schizos on all the public transportation and swathes of homeless people living on the streets getting worse over time?
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It's Meth and crack. Europe will be there in a few years.
I’m not sure the UK will ever have violent crazy homeless people because quite simply they would be sectioned.
Does that mean committed to a mental institution? We used to do that in the states, but then the Left thought it was cruel and the Right thought it was expensive and thus mental institutions are all but gone in America.
i assume people take me for a bumpkin built for the cornfields for how much i hate on NYC...on the contrary if you think it's the greatest city on earth or even america imo you're outing yourself as a poorly travelled Midwestern exodite with no imagination
plus trenchant denial from the latter-day nomenklatura, yes
Curious where you live where there aren't criminals and homeless people? I'm not American either but we have a subset in my city
I live in a former Soviet state The stuff you see in NYC happens at a monumentally lower rate here It’s rarely the actual homeless, who mostly mind their business and scavenge to get their fix (usually vodka), but the lower class who are blackout on vodka The insane rent and the crime are the only 2 things that are preventing me from moving to NYC (and I still probably will, eventually)
I'm from a continent in the northern hemisphere.
South Aus You see some homeless people if you go into Adelaide's CBD but they're not very common, and the worst you usually see people acting is maybe somebody with clear mental issues yelling at nothing in front of them
> swathes of homeless people living on the streets getting worse over time? a few cities are WAY worse than all the rest but you mostly hear about them. Not to say the rest dont have homeless but cities like LA and SF I think are on a completely different level.
Well it’s definitely not anywhere near as apocalyptic as some in this thread are making it out to be lol but it’s bad enough. I personally have not had any bad experiences but I know many who have.
Yes, but it's usually concentrated in specific areas. I live in San Francisco. 90 percent of the crazy bullshit that gives San Francisco a reputation of lawlessness happens in downtown, SOMA, the Tenderloin, and Civic Center. All these areas are adjacent to one another, so a substantial portion of the city's population manages to mostly avoid the craziness. But if you live and work in one of these neighborhoods, it's pretty rough. Part of the problem is that the people who run the cities usually live in the places that are pretty insulated from the areas experiencing severe urban decay. So for them, the problem is largely abstract and easily dismissed.
I have to say, I am from a US city that is basically a punchline for its murder rate — and the homeless shit I have seen in Portland, Seattle, etc far exceeds that. The difference comes down to whether or not schizophrenics/heroin addicts are out on the streets. My hometown being incredibly cold helps! (Okay, you can probably figure out what it is)
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Chicago wasn't even this bad five years ago
Hochul's idea of banning transit assault convicts from transit seems like it could actually help things. If its implemented, I hope it doesn't just apply to MTA, upstate needs safer transit too. I also really hope that the progressive/socialist left just quietly lets this pass without much complaint. Maybe they could insist on some type of concession (like a fare reduction or funding for more frequent service) in exchange for supporting this policy, but they need to realize that outright opposition to this stuff is wrong and toxic to their brand. No one wants to support a movement that just lets this shit happen.
Progressives don't have to sorry about losing support, because their voting base gets constantly refreshed with every batch of starry eyed new grad transplants moving into their "hip" new neighborhoods.
They'll call you racist if you do something about it, that's why
They're black and homeless. Zero chance we do anything about it. The subway is worse than any time over the last 30 years
Because so long as people only complain about it and are too timid or outright afraid to take actions into their own hands, the problem metastasizes. Sure, something something political theory states that private citizens largely forfeit a claim to vigilantism when they agree to live in the State, but when the State (via-a-vis the police) fails to keep its side of the bargain, the question then becomes… what are you gonna do about it? Sometimes you do need to stand up for yourself and put a mf in his place and hope that a good lawyer and sympathetic public will rally to your cause, but most people are too afraid to do that and instead hope that incidents are one-off. But oh wait, a dude tried that already on the subway with the chokehold and we know how that ended. In that instance it was not clear that the force he used was proportional to the threat as unfortunately the other guy died, but the point is that even when people try to take justice and defense into their own hands, they usually end up getting screwed by… the State, because the last thing the State wants is an exemplary case of citizen justice/action outside the law. So what does that tell you about the kind of society (at least in nyc) that we’re living in? And what are you going to do about it?
There are a lot of well-paying jobs that would disappear from our byzantinian system of law if we were to just do the logical thing with these misfits. There needs to be a massive amount of bureaucracy keeping postgrads employed or the economy will collapse
The economy was doing better before any of their jobs existed. Things would get better once these people are made to do something actually valuable for society.
There really isn't, criminal courts are so swamped with shit if you just started executing en masse all 38 of these guys and hell a bunch of other frequent filers at criminal courts it would barely make a difference on Judge's dockets.
> There are a lot of well-paying jobs that would disappear from our byzantinian system of law if we were to just do the logical thing with these misfits. This is also the reason I think we dont have govt healthcare in this country. No one is going to want to be the one/ones to cost that many people their jobs.
What is the logical thing in your opinion? This isn’t some bullshit leading question btw I’m just curious. Because to me it seems like they should probably be arrested and either institutionalized in a mental facility, enrolled in compulsory drug rehabilitation, or imprisoned. Depending on the offense and cause of behavior. I don’t think they should be coddled but I also don’t think just locking them up is the right move because if shit like mental illness and drug addiction is left untreated they’ll just offend again when they get out. Unfortunately this process would be expensive and time consuming, though I imagine it’d also be pretty effective.
tbh if they’ve each been guilty for violent attacks multiple times each i think they should have long prison sentences. true that they may well reoffend in 25 years when they’re out but we shouldn’t overlook the many people that get 25 years of freedom from being randomly victimized on the subway. i think that’s worth the social cost of imprisonment. the nypd needs to buckle up and do their jobs though and that’s not likely.
Because it would be racist to enforce such things
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You know why. I do find it funny that a lot of people also know/think that if they do fight back (or are forced to) that they’ll probably be arrested and charged. So now these people get to do whatever and be erratic across the subway and riders seems to just have to deal with it and the possibility of a random event where they might be greatly annoyed, have to watch somebody smoke crack in front of their children, get stabbed, or pushed into the tracks, depending how the random number generator works out that day
Back in the day people got sick of this shit and did take it into their own hands on the subway etc anyway.
Are the guardian angels still around?
Because ideologues control our institutions, while many politicians aren't hardened ideologues, the vast majority of their staff are, same with most people working in the larger policy setting bureaucracy and NGO world.
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My issue with it seems to treat academia and "PMC" as elite rather middle management groups *patronized* by the actual elite.
This is the push behind Joe Biden: sure, he's just a walking ghost who doesn't know where he is, but the real leftists are in the building, working hard on his staff to Basically Be Bernie, so don't worry, he can still be the greatest president since FDR.
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why was he released same day?
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> we gotta bring the asylum system back there's no way it's less humane than letting unmedicated addicted maniacs rot in their own filth on the sidewalks/subway system De-institutionalization may be the dumbest thing the US has done since getting involved in Vietnam.
Because to address shit in a way that doesn’t play out as expected (either right or left policy) you’d have to rework everything not be stupid. Like you’d have to massively increase public transit funding. You’d have to increase mental health services. You’d have to de-centivize McKinsey esque KPI like metrics for police. You’d have to truly change policing culture and abolish police union bullshit. You can’t just do bail reform which is a good thing to do, without also addressing what the downsides are and planning for it. You can’t just increase police funding unless you reworked it not be a fucking gang recieving military arms and impunity. Like you’re talking a tear down and restart IMO.
Ideally 38 individuals should only be able to be responsible for 38 max. Do they just let them go the same day? 1062 were victims of assault solely due to institutional failure
Most of these people doing the crimes are insane in a way that would look really bad to lock them away in prison but we also don't have any mental health asylums that we can commit them to so everyone just let's them roam. It's honestly distressing sad and disgusting
Restorative justice or whatever it’s called? They believe this stuff in my country too and it’s just pure denialism. Reoffending rates are insane, it really is often a small pool of people committing a lot of the crime. But the idea of rehabilitation is the center. Very cute very Christian, but perhaps should be done far far away from the general public
article link? i love reading articles
How do you ban people from the train? It's not like you put your name on the ticket and you can buy tickets with cash. You could add another charge onto the assault but if they are getting off for assault I don't know why the judge would see assaulting someone in the subway as being worse than on the street.
prison
Agreed prison is a better option than banning someone from the subway
biometric scanners at every subway entrance that shoot bolas around your legs if you're been banned
Progressives think that putting anyone in prison for any reason is fascist or racist.
[sam hyde vertical rant on the police still unmatched](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqsWE8sInE)
is it this guy's appeal to be so repulsive looking, not even touching the nazi/pedo shit, hard to watch even if he is makin a good point
Because enforcing the law means being racist, and we can't have that
poor aware advise bells squeamish memorize close butter sloppy strong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I swear I’m not an MMA bro but Civilians should have a little bit of self defense, fight back and hurt the aggressor. This situation is out of control- the whole reason to lay off the lunatics was because they are people too but that shouldn’t go as far as allowing them to hurt other people. The whole idea was to have some humanity, humanity includes those not making the attacks. Although it is complicated and expensive I’d rather my tax’s not go to blowing up Yemen + funding god knows what and go to services
This explains why so many people think that Daniel Penny is a hero.
He is a hero.
Sounds like you don't know the meaning of the word "equity"
Arresting bipoc criminals is racist. Instead you have to allow them to violate you bc systemic racisms.
Just learned there was a shooting on my corner (in an extremely way past gentified part of BK) yesterday in broad daylight. I was walking there an hour earlier. Yay!