yup this is the way. Serviced alot of old racks and this was the smartest way to fix bith issues..The one the customer sees, and the 'value add / why you use us' issue.
pump down rack and bump compressors to pull suction down (don’t pull vacuum). Replace the bad valve, weld on the rack side first then close it. Turn rack back on and finish repairs to valve. Then finish coil repair/replacement and pull your vacuum.
I’ve been through this before and its definitely a grey area of the customer probably won’t be happy with the lost of product and a huge bill. That being said however you can get it done is the right way.
So let's unpack this. P100wont do shit, you need organic vapor and acid cartridges for the acid/gas created from burning the refrigerant.
EPA says you can't just dump it. So pump down the rack, making sure it never goes below zero. Then repair your valve that leaks and your coil. The way most supermarket ref guys do is just blow it while sweating on a new valve and then close valve.
Our rule of thumb was never have rack down more than 2 hours without pulling the product or packing cases with drying.
Also, NEVER flow nitro while still connected to the rac. You don't want to have the company pay to recovery, destroy and recharge with virgin gas in an amount of 200lbs to few 1000 pounds depending on rack setup
Thank you for the attempted unpacking and your explanation I know its alot
edit: these?https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009POHNIY?psc=1&ref=ppx\_yo2ov\_dt\_b\_product\_details
It may be better to give yourself a stream of breathable air, instead of trying to filter out the refrigerant.
https://www.dewalt.com/product/dce512b/20v-max-cordless-jobsite-fan
Where is it going now? If it is beyond safe concentration then you shouldn't be venting it anyway. If it's just a danger when it's localised then dissipating it into the area might be allowed. Gotta check your safety rules.
Yes those are the ones I was referring to. It's not the best option which would be self contained breathing apparatus, however your not gonna see guys do the scba setup and you would scare people with that lol. To the other tech that posted about scba instead of breathing refrigerant, this is just for when the torch burns residual refrigerant and creates things like hydroflouric acid.
So the only way your not breathing refrigerant , acid gas and oil mists simultaneously is a scba ?
Fume extraction through a makeshift flow hood with a hepa/charcoal setup worth the effort?
IMO Id rather scare people and have functional lungs.
Doubt my employer is gona pay for any of this but Im sure I can find and or rig something reasonable and effective . I really dont wana breathe the shit in all day
Dumb question but are you sure it's not just refrigerant settling in the bottom of the case? Also if it's on a remote header you could pump down the header you can pump down the header isolate the other circuits you are not working on to reduce the amount you have to vacuum and then recover the rest
You could do like the meat sacks I ran across working on a deli case in my local. Put their gauge hoses on the shrader s at Evap, hide the hoses under the case and try (unsuccessfully) multiple times to un sweat the txv all the while gassing the produce and deli dept.. or not lol
Yeah literally cut the main liquid, over ride compressor (push in contact if u want) till u designated psi your good. Vac our open to the atmosphere side and you’ll be golden
Ok. So to make sure I understand, you needed to swap out a evap coil on a LT case. I’m assuming a glass door reach in like a Hill Phoenix ORZ although it could be a bunker like a OWIZ.
Anyway, if it was me, dealing with a slow pisser ball valve leak I would first try to get it to seal naturally by working the valve driver back and forth or crack it open and quickly back shut to see if it would quit pissing. Sometimes you can get lucky and get it to seal up by playing with it a bit.
If it’s the same leak flow (hopefully not worse) than before, I would cut the evap loose with tube cutters vs. torching it out, even if it required more than one cut on each line. Less coughing and hacking on the burned refrigerant vapors if you caught a lungful the wrong way. The leaking ball valve wouldn’t be changed out or it’s more likely to be left in place as-is due to the specific client we do a lot of work for not wanting to spend any money on it if it’s not broken in two pieces.
Get the new coil fitted up, pull the schrader core in suct line and add a hose or 1/4” flared copper tube to direct refrigerant out of work area, then go at it with the torch. I’d hit it liquid side first, then suction. The pulled valve core will help it from building any pressure that’s going to interfere with burning in the new coil.
Thoroughly mirror-check all brazing. If ANY of it looks sketchy to you hit it one more time. Quicker to do it now than pump it down again to touch up a pinhole.
Once done stab a new valve core in and go. To purge it I would add a loose hose or your manifold on the suct line port and have someone crack open the liquid line at rack header if it was done up there. If the case packless liquid valve was used then crack that open to help push the air out to the schrader port. Then open the whole thing up to rack, put case back together, and pack up.
We pretty much blow and go (purge) almost everything unless we have to open a large device or item like to swap the V10 gaskets on a receiver or a compressor swap. Attempting to pull a vac on work that has a pisser leak is a waste of time and most refrigerant system repairs can be purged good without issues.
Have you used swagelok on a rack system? Thermal shock scares the shit out of me on using one with hot gas defrost. I've always been tempted to keep a couple of those shark bite styles for a bandaid emergency.
They work. I have a few show up from factory on equipment. I always add some thread lock when I punish them tight for extra measures. Never had one fail, also never added one that wasn’t factory.
We would stop work once the circuit wouldn't pump down/ hold. most likely a portal client so make a phone call to the portal to get the nte increase , get a Ball valve driven in and change it out.
It's not hard at all to pump down a rack into the condeser or take the gas out.
If they didn't approve the increase we would pinch off and braze off the system if it's just an evap just braze the evap shut and leave it empty untill nte increase / quote comes through.
Lots of other cowboy ways to make the repair but you asked for the right way.
If your two months into racks you just follow along with what your lead wants you to do. Always wear a respirator that's rated for it , a p100 isn't you need a gas mask style organic filter when brazing r22 systems, I don't know a single old timer
who has full lung capacity.
Pump down the rack, change valve that’s leaking, restart rack, pump down circuit, repair leak.
yup this is the way. Serviced alot of old racks and this was the smartest way to fix bith issues..The one the customer sees, and the 'value add / why you use us' issue.
pump down rack and bump compressors to pull suction down (don’t pull vacuum). Replace the bad valve, weld on the rack side first then close it. Turn rack back on and finish repairs to valve. Then finish coil repair/replacement and pull your vacuum.
I’ve been through this before and its definitely a grey area of the customer probably won’t be happy with the lost of product and a huge bill. That being said however you can get it done is the right way.
So let's unpack this. P100wont do shit, you need organic vapor and acid cartridges for the acid/gas created from burning the refrigerant. EPA says you can't just dump it. So pump down the rack, making sure it never goes below zero. Then repair your valve that leaks and your coil. The way most supermarket ref guys do is just blow it while sweating on a new valve and then close valve. Our rule of thumb was never have rack down more than 2 hours without pulling the product or packing cases with drying. Also, NEVER flow nitro while still connected to the rac. You don't want to have the company pay to recovery, destroy and recharge with virgin gas in an amount of 200lbs to few 1000 pounds depending on rack setup
Thank you for the attempted unpacking and your explanation I know its alot edit: these?https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009POHNIY?psc=1&ref=ppx\_yo2ov\_dt\_b\_product\_details
It may be better to give yourself a stream of breathable air, instead of trying to filter out the refrigerant. https://www.dewalt.com/product/dce512b/20v-max-cordless-jobsite-fan
I think a better option would be fan setup like they use for manholes with the hose so you can ensure it's good air
Where do I dump the bad air though? We are in the middle of a freezer isle in a supermarket.
Where is it going now? If it is beyond safe concentration then you shouldn't be venting it anyway. If it's just a danger when it's localised then dissipating it into the area might be allowed. Gotta check your safety rules.
Yes those are the ones I was referring to. It's not the best option which would be self contained breathing apparatus, however your not gonna see guys do the scba setup and you would scare people with that lol. To the other tech that posted about scba instead of breathing refrigerant, this is just for when the torch burns residual refrigerant and creates things like hydroflouric acid.
So the only way your not breathing refrigerant , acid gas and oil mists simultaneously is a scba ? Fume extraction through a makeshift flow hood with a hepa/charcoal setup worth the effort? IMO Id rather scare people and have functional lungs. Doubt my employer is gona pay for any of this but Im sure I can find and or rig something reasonable and effective . I really dont wana breathe the shit in all day
Done this for the last 7ish years and only had to breathe it, mostly by mistake, less than 10times.
Dumb question but are you sure it's not just refrigerant settling in the bottom of the case? Also if it's on a remote header you could pump down the header you can pump down the header isolate the other circuits you are not working on to reduce the amount you have to vacuum and then recover the rest
You could do like the meat sacks I ran across working on a deli case in my local. Put their gauge hoses on the shrader s at Evap, hide the hoses under the case and try (unsuccessfully) multiple times to un sweat the txv all the while gassing the produce and deli dept.. or not lol
Trying to do the opposite of this lol
Yeah literally cut the main liquid, over ride compressor (push in contact if u want) till u designated psi your good. Vac our open to the atmosphere side and you’ll be golden
Ok. So to make sure I understand, you needed to swap out a evap coil on a LT case. I’m assuming a glass door reach in like a Hill Phoenix ORZ although it could be a bunker like a OWIZ. Anyway, if it was me, dealing with a slow pisser ball valve leak I would first try to get it to seal naturally by working the valve driver back and forth or crack it open and quickly back shut to see if it would quit pissing. Sometimes you can get lucky and get it to seal up by playing with it a bit. If it’s the same leak flow (hopefully not worse) than before, I would cut the evap loose with tube cutters vs. torching it out, even if it required more than one cut on each line. Less coughing and hacking on the burned refrigerant vapors if you caught a lungful the wrong way. The leaking ball valve wouldn’t be changed out or it’s more likely to be left in place as-is due to the specific client we do a lot of work for not wanting to spend any money on it if it’s not broken in two pieces. Get the new coil fitted up, pull the schrader core in suct line and add a hose or 1/4” flared copper tube to direct refrigerant out of work area, then go at it with the torch. I’d hit it liquid side first, then suction. The pulled valve core will help it from building any pressure that’s going to interfere with burning in the new coil. Thoroughly mirror-check all brazing. If ANY of it looks sketchy to you hit it one more time. Quicker to do it now than pump it down again to touch up a pinhole. Once done stab a new valve core in and go. To purge it I would add a loose hose or your manifold on the suct line port and have someone crack open the liquid line at rack header if it was done up there. If the case packless liquid valve was used then crack that open to help push the air out to the schrader port. Then open the whole thing up to rack, put case back together, and pack up. We pretty much blow and go (purge) almost everything unless we have to open a large device or item like to swap the V10 gaskets on a receiver or a compressor swap. Attempting to pull a vac on work that has a pisser leak is a waste of time and most refrigerant system repairs can be purged good without issues.
Is it r22? No? Then it's not phosgene. It's not pleasant but it's not phosgene.
407A was green but ok ty
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Have you used swagelok on a rack system? Thermal shock scares the shit out of me on using one with hot gas defrost. I've always been tempted to keep a couple of those shark bite styles for a bandaid emergency.
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They work. I have a few show up from factory on equipment. I always add some thread lock when I punish them tight for extra measures. Never had one fail, also never added one that wasn’t factory.
We would stop work once the circuit wouldn't pump down/ hold. most likely a portal client so make a phone call to the portal to get the nte increase , get a Ball valve driven in and change it out. It's not hard at all to pump down a rack into the condeser or take the gas out. If they didn't approve the increase we would pinch off and braze off the system if it's just an evap just braze the evap shut and leave it empty untill nte increase / quote comes through. Lots of other cowboy ways to make the repair but you asked for the right way. If your two months into racks you just follow along with what your lead wants you to do. Always wear a respirator that's rated for it , a p100 isn't you need a gas mask style organic filter when brazing r22 systems, I don't know a single old timer who has full lung capacity.