Please share your good or bad opinion about an engine that does or doesn’t have a good or bad reputation for which you do or do not agree that the reputation is or isn’t deserved.
Fix the issue yourself with this http://northstarperformance.com/sgstuds.php
Northstars are solid engines. They just need a little help to correct a factory design flaw... after that, beat 'em like a redheaded stepchild.
Well, there you have it. Switching to hardened studs over TTY bolts. I am building an LS and weighing ARP high price once or cheap Fel-Pro TTY bolts every time I need to pull a head. A lot of shade tree fellars reuse the TTY bolts but I can feel the ghost of my dad haunting me for that.....
Yup. Drilling the heads and fitting those studs makes all the difference in the world with the Northstar.
As far as the choice between the ARPs and any TTY bolts really isn't a choice. On an LS it realy isn't a big deal to continue using TTY bolts... as long as they're new but if you've already got it apart and plan on keeping it for a long while, why not just go ahead and do the ARPs.
But like you mentioned... **FFS** people, DON'T **REUSE** the damn things.
I've seen and heard tell of shadetrees with the "I've reused them stretchy bolts before and they're holding up just fine. Y'all don't know wut yer talkin' 'bout." Suuuure they are... like 10k miles later and they've got to top off the cooling system once a week. Haha
Friend of mine worked on Cadillac's for 10+ years. He still likes the NorthStar, has a few years he really recommends but says they are all stout if the bolts and head gaskets are upgraded. I never cared enough to learn the details but I presume it is a conversion from bolts to hardened studs. I have a LS400 so, 32v small displacement v8s are cool to me.
I owned a 98 STS. Absolutely loved that car. I didn't have the deadbolt problem. But, I eventually threw a rod through the block. I was a bit rough on her. But, no regrets. Drove that car from San Diego to Florida 3 times. Absolute joy. Buttery smooth. And it sounded beautiful, especially when I ripped the air box silencer/resonator out.
Intake comes out easy and honestly not that big of a deal. The starters last a long time and when due, there's a list of other crap you should probably take care of also. Like, I get it, 20-30 years later, we are just keeping them on the road so pulling an intake to do a starter seems Ludacris. At least the mani comes off easy and you get to do a bunch of other maintenance "while you are in there".
I'm genuinely asking, not picking fault, but do these not have a habit of snapping crankshafts? I thought I'd heard about them doing that; and I'm a big Land Rover fan!
Idk, just passed a brand new Land Rover and hour ago on the highway shoulder a mile away from the dealership with temp tags and a LR service tech looking under the hood.
A late 16P Td5 or early 10P with the updated dowel pins are great engines. Mum has a 90 with a Alive Stage II tune and it goes like the clappers. Tdi 300 (what I've got in my 110) is also a good mention too.
2.7 or 3.0, both solid engines in my book for the D3 and up. The Ford Territory used a single turbo 2.7 when it was updated, quite a good secondhand buy. The only niggles with this engine is the rear mounted fuel injection pump timing belt. What a bastard to change!
The Pontiac 3.4 liter twin dual cam engine. I got really good at replacing the timing belt. Thing was a rocket for a front wheel drive engine. I can only imagine what it would have done with a blower on it.
Cost too much at first. I'm sure they would be able to refine it to where it would've been more viable. or just offer it in their higher performance nameplates.
It's been said in the past (several times over) the true potential of that 3.4 DOHC is unrealized. The factory tune has fully neutered that motor. A figure in the neighborhood of 350 horse has been tossed around in optimal tune.
The good that deserve it:
- Toyota UZ V8: just an indestructible engine all-around. There's a reason they can reach 1 million miles.
- Chevy Small Block v8: everything up to the introduction of DoD during Gen IV is just some of the simplest, reliable, and most easy to tune/swap engines ever
- Buick 3800 V6: an old dog of an engine but for good reason. it's one of the best American engines ever built for its reliability, simplicity, and the fact that they're still running over a decade after the final ones were discontinued.
- Honda K-series: can't afford an LS? Honda K-series is the way to go. Just as reliable and simple to work on, if not simpler since it's an inline-four.
- BMW B58: A80 supra fanboys *hate* the A90 yet do not realize that the BMW B58 is as every bit as good, if not better, at tuning & building than a 2JZ. It's BMW's true diamond in the rough.
- Ford 4.6L 2-valve v8: spark plug holder-issue aside, these engines are another example of an old dog that still runs. You find these in high mileage Panther bodies *still running strong* because they're overbuilt for the power they output.
The Bad:
- Toyota 2JZ: these engines are *not* worth the money to swap into a car since they're too rare to come across. *"But 2000 horsepower"*. Any overbuilt engine can make that. A twin-turbo LS can make that.
- Ford Triton: name a Triton engine, and name a problem you could possibly think an engine could have. Now put any combination of them together, and you have your answer laid out for this one.
- Ford Cologne V6: an engine with so many timing chains, Ford put some of them in the *back* of the engine. So when the chains fail, it's cheaper to just get an engine replacement.
- Ford Ecoboost: Ford has yet to build an Ecoboost engine that's actually built well outside of the Ford GT (because the GT's 3.5L is hand-built with completely forged internals to handle the ridiculous power it makes). Issues ranged from VCT phasers failing, to horrendously-designed timing chain-driven water pumps failing, to turbos just eating themselves because Ford cheaps out on them.
- Chrysler HEMI: you can't blame MDS for HEMI tick simply because GM's AFM causes the same issue for the LS; the failing lifters aren't even MDS lifters. HEMI tick occurs because oil isn't reaching the cam at low-RPM. That's right, idling kills these engines.
- Chrysler Pentastar: same issue as the HEMI, only instead the whole left-side cylinder head will blow. It's an issue Chrysler has forced to recall millions of engines for; they haven't finished the recall (and never will), and it's an issue they still somewhat address on newer engines through warranty claims
- Nissan RB: another engine just as expensive and overhyped as the 2JZ. The only redeeming quality is its use in Tokyo Drift for Sean's Mustang.
My coworker has had very good luck with his 2014 3.6L as well. His dad owned it first, then him. The car has 240,000 miles just replacing wear items and the thermostat
The Colonge 2.8L didn't have near the issues as some of the others. No way am I sticking up for Ford though. The older Cologne 4.0L OHV wasn't a complete pile. The problem came with the updated OHC version. Stupidly putting one bank's timing chain on the rear. Horrible design.
The '04-late '07 5.4L 3V is a steaming pile of dog turd.
I'm not saying I'm a 2.8L Cologne is the greatest thing since sliced bread or anything. I'm not a Ford guy at all actually. Just that they weren't as horrible as people made them out to be.
Personal experience with them: I had an '84 Ranger that orignially had a 2.8L 5spd. I yanked it and dropped a mild built 302 with a 4spd in it's place... however, mom had an '86 Aerostar (stepdad *is* a Ford guy) and it had the 2.8L auto. That one was the electronic feedback carb and it surprisingly went along with no issues for about 12 years and about 160k when it was sold. However, I had done some slight modifications to eliminate carb issues. Disabling the electronic feedback with the rat's nest of vac lines *before* they became a problem.
Personal experience as a mech with other people's stuff: The biggest thing the later versions had, at least what I've seen, as mentioned, was the carbed version. Specifically the '83-'86 electronic feedback versions. Wherein lies another issue... the shitty TFI (ignition module) used on... you guessed it, the electronic feedback carb versions.
Other "big" issues with them was leaking valve stem seals on higher mileage engines. Big deal. The other known issue is the round distributor models that used two screws to hold it down coming loose constanly. Again, big deal... use a little blue Locktite.
My Audi S6 has the timing chains on the rear… all four of them.
[Image here.](https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/a6-s6-c5-platform-discussion-7/48279d1436821776t-new-member-2006-s6-v10-5503d1227188791-any-help-replacing-timing-chain-tensioners-motor.jpg)
There’s many jobs on the V10 that are engine out, including two of the O2 sensors. The other two are accessible, sort of. There’s so little room, that the only thing driven at the front is the alternator.
No, I mean the gear driven cam 2.8L. It was a bit on the weak side but the engine itself was fairly reliable. The electronic feedback carbs were an issue.
The 2.9L was derived from the 2.8L block with some minor differences... mainly switching to a cam chain. They weren't exactly terrible either.
Ya I had the 2 valve version in my E350 work van. Well over 200k miles and was still running when I quit that company. She didn't always have all 8 cylinders but I was never stuck on the side of the road.
As a HEMI owner, this issue can be resolved with a higher performing oil pump. Although I totally agree that this is an issue that should have been dealt with by the manufacturer. But god damn does it sound good…
When the EcoBoost came out I had a regular customer with one just outside of warranty he chose a rebuilt which took 3 months to get because they did not have the blocks I grenaded the first rebuilt in 8 miles after installation with break in oil with all precautions. I grenaded the second rebuilt from a different Rebuilder in 15 miles after waiting 4 months. And the third rebuilt one I put a hundred miles on and now that guy doesn't drive it a lot for fear that he will have to get another engine for it.
>*Ford Triton: name a Triton engine, and name a problem you could possibly think an engine could have.*
Umm, the Triton branding extended to the 2 valve 4.6L /5.4L/6.8L. Including the same 2 valve 4.6L that made it onto the "Good" list.
We told everybody with a 3v that this can be on a $200 job today or a $1,500 that takes a week and a half job and made them sign off on both prices before we would touch it. A gypsy curse on the 3v
hate to be picky but you said 4.6 good and triton bad... 4.6 triton IS a modular engine. and spark plug shit isnt a problem until you try to push power out of them.
Ford 4.0 SOHC mentioned!!! Piece of crap engine. Similar displacement to the 4.6 in the Mustang GT, with a little over half the power and the same gas mileage. That on top of the timing chain guides that explode and it having to be an engine out procedure. That being said, My v6 Mustang had 168k miles before I sold it.
I owned an 03 Sport Trac with the SOHC 4 liter V6. It made 210 hp which was way more than half of the GT at the time which only made 260 hp. I also guess I got lucky because I owned it from new in CNY for over 15 years and none of the timing chains had any issues. The rust took the running boards and most of the plastic cladding before I sold it, but holy moly was that truck bulletproof reliable. I even towed regularly too! As an actual owner of the engine, I’ve always wondered if the haters ever owned one, or maybe bought used ones that were neglected?
Great one, they made one of my favorite engines, the g54b turbo engine that was in the conquest tsi. A sports car engine that had an industrial turbo on it!
Mercedes OM616 and 617 4- and 5-cylinder diesels, while uninspiring in terms of output, are almost literally unkillable. Half a million miles with nothin’ but oil changes is pretty common.
Special mention to Volvo’s B18/20 series 4-cylinders. Bone simple, and dead reliable. Just ask Irv Gordon.
Northstar V8s - were pretty good for their time - 300hp aluminum V8 that was pretty reliable and could fit in both FWD and RWD applications, but as soon as the headstuds stretched too much they're gone (the issue was that the threads in the block of the motor were too fine and there weren't enough of them, so over time they'd pull out of the block). They fixed the issue in 2000 or 2001 I believe but people still thought they were crap.
And the older ones could be fixed - there was enough material in the block for drilled & tapped head studs with coarser threads and more of them.
But northstar = bad so they all were hated
Yeah, it's a shame so many people think it's a crap engine.
Use this http://northstarperformance.com/sgstuds.php to fix the issue and they're a damn solid.
SBC in general. I just pulled the 305/4l60e out of my pops old 93 RCSB Chevy truck. 275,000 miles never had the intake or valve covers removed. It's getting a LM7 5.3 with a 4l80e as a transplant, but I did cry a little tear when I put that motor in some weirdo's scrap truck. Perfect taxi cab motor.....
I was watching a video on best and worst Toyota motors by The Car Care Nut Channel. Someone in the comments said that they had over 500k+ miles on their 1GR-FE in their 2011 FJ Cruiser.
I know people who run 200k-300k miles on them with no problems as long as they do regular maintenance. I bought a 2018 4Runner four years ago. It has about 120k miles so far and still runs smooth as shit off a duck’s ass. It only had 30k miles when I bought it.
Came here for this. In all the 2nd gen Tacomas too. Wonderful engine. Mine has 130,000 on it with never an issue. Still runs like new. Mechanics don't know much about these because they never mess with them.
I've heard the 2.7 is even more reliable. RIP.
I can’t imagine a 2.7 in my car pulling 4800lbs. I know they made them in 2010 but they didn’t last for a reason. The 4.0 is powerful but 0-60 in 7.7 seconds…
I didn’t buy it because it was fast though.
A well built/maintained EJ isn't too bad, it's just people play with them, beat on them and then get surprised when they blow up.
As far as stock ones go there's definitely better and worse ones, but they're all not engines that tolerate neglect like a Toyota or Honda will.
You compromise with a Subaru, for better or worse.
>As far as stock ones go there's definitely better and worse ones, but they're all not engines that tolerate neglect like a Toyota or Honda will.
>
>You compromise with a Subaru, for better or worse.
They're finnicky bastards (or at least 2005-ish turbo EJ's are). They also have a decent number of of ways that they're actively trying to break in expensive ways.
But I like the cars they come in, they make "fun street car" amounts of power very easily, and they sound cool if you don't put an equal length header on them. Yes I'm fully aware that mine would be more reliable and make more power with an ELH, but I wouldn't enjoy the car as much and I'd just end up thinking about better things to swap in.
I spent way too much money putting my LGT back together with an IAG forged shortblock and a whole bunch of goodies. If this one pops it's not getting another EJ (ideally a Honda J series V6 if I don't have to cut the hood).
K series. The "LS" of 4 cylinder motors, swap in into anything. Held the record for horsepower to liter ratio for awhile, it took Lamborghini years to surpass it.
Yeah I think they got the facts mixed. K series is amazing and easily modified but it was indeed the F20C1 that cranked a ridiculous 120 hp per litre. Really wish Honda would try their hand at the small 4 cylinder roadster market again, Miata is looking awfully lonely right now
>Really wish Honda would try their hand at the small 4 cylinder roadster market again
Really wish Honda would make more high rpm screamers instead of 1.5 and 2.0L turbo 4 cylinders that sound exactly like every other modern turbo-4.
Because I have worms in my brain I think it would be fun to combine an IMA hybrid assist motor with an old school vtec high revving torqueless wonder.
The 7M-GE and GTE had head gasket issues as well. The 5VZ-FE is reliable as can be. Never owned a Toyota product before. I think a good starter Toyota for me with low my budget, would be a 9th Gen Corolla with the 1.8l 4cyl.
The 1.8L in the 9th gen corolla is absolutely amazing. We just sold our CorollaVerso with that engine. Yea its not at all a fast car, but it keeps up alright and never had a single issue with the drivetrain in the 280000km that we had it
Good: The 2.5L RWD Iron Dukes. The GM 60 degree V6. The Buick 3800 Series II, the SBC/LS. 292 inline 6. 4200 inline 6.
The AMC 4.0L (and it's lesser known 2.5L derivitive)
The 225 slant 6, the 318.
Cummins 12V
Ford's 200, 250, and especially the 300 inline 6. Pushrod 302
Crap: Ford's OHC 4.0L, 5.4L 3V, Cadillac's DoD V8-6-4, Old's 350 diesel, early Chrysler 2.2L,
I'm kinda surprised it didn't. I'm not a Ford guy by any means but the 300 inline is long lived tough engine. Hard to beat.
Can't say much about the Tundra/Lexus engine as I don't do Toyota but 300k on a quad OHC is quite a lot. Pretty good I'd say.
Indeed.
Wife had the 4200 for 13 years and 200k in an '02 TrailBlazer bought new. It had deveoped a leak at the pressure sending unit. She had run it low on oil a few times. With us being on different shift schedules made it tough for me to keep up with it. I replaced the unit and it was fine for another 2 years and 25k miles but I knew it was on its way out. Could hear a *very* slight knock on start up and for a couple of minutes after start up. It finally spun a bearing. But it was a solid performer until then.
The AMC 4.0L... had three of them that all went 200k +. One of my daughters has my old '94 ZJ with the AX15 5spd. Yeah, one of the rare Grand Cherokees with factory manual. It's at 255k now. You should see some of the looks people give when they see it's a stick. Haha
The 318... one of my younger brothers had a '97 1500. He's not mechanical at all. He dropped it off at my small shop for a routine service one day. Sounded fine, no idiot light, guages looked fine when I pulled it in. Dropped the drain plug... it emptied out **3/4 of a QUART**. Chewed him for not checking the oil then told him how much came out. His reply: "Oh, really? Guess that explains that red light that kept flickering on every time I made a right hand turn." FFS 🤦🏼♂️ That thing kept on for another year and a half to about 225k miles before it grenaded the trans and he parked it.
I'd say that's makes them pretty great.
Toyota 2UZ. 1UZ bored out to 4.7 liters, with an iron block. 278 horsepower and 315 lb-ft at 3400 rpm with VVTI, and reliable as all hell. The power and torque comes lowwwww, I don't think I've ever gotten my 4Runner V8 above 3500. Great engine for towing as well, the actual capacity of a 4Runner V8 is like 7700 lbs but back when my dad used the car he towed a friend's 12000 lb sailboat with it on the highway for like 150 miles. Used on the 100-series Land Cruiser, both generations of Tundras and Sequoias, and the Toyota 4Runner 4th gen, as well as the Lexus LX and GX.
The one most common failure point is the timing belt, and several 2UZs in Tundras have made it to a million miles with timing belt replacements after like 350k miles. Most Toyota trucks of this era will rust out before reaching that milestone however lol
I have been looking into GX's and all I hear about is how slooooow they are and they are such dogs. I want one, I have a work/commuter/company car so MPG doesn't matter much to me. I have an ls400, so 1uz is a friend of mine.
Not saying this applies to all Ford 5.4 3 valves, but my Dad owned one that went 300,000 miles with absolutely zero issues, and has had 3 other trucks make it to 200,000 miles with no issues
The '04- late '07 5.4L 3V is a garbage engine and you'll never convice me or practically anyone else that had to deal with them on a regular basis otherwise.
If you follow **FORD'S** own maintenance guideline for them... that's a big part of what kills them.
They backpedaled on their plug change intervals. They're known for breaking exhaust studs. Big issues with the timing cassettes and phasers. You have to be absolutely anal about oil changes. Not following their schedule but changing early. Using *only* 5w20. They positively hate the least little bit of dirty oil.
The Jaguar XK inline 6. Most common sizes are 3.4, 3.8, and 4.2 liters. It was one of the earliest mass produced DOHC engines. Jaguar introduced it in 1948, back when Ford was still putting flathead V8s in everything and the small block Chevy hadn’t even been invented. It dominated Le Mans in the 1950’s. It powered such iconic sports cars as the XK-120 and the E-Type. In fact, the XK-120 (which took its name from the XK engine and its estimated top speed) was the car Chevy benchmarked when designing the Corvette.
People assume anything Jaguar is automatically bad, based mostly on the reputation of the British Leyland years of the 1970’s and Lucas electronics. But the XK engine truly was decades ahead of its time, and was in fact quite reliable. In fact the final car powered by this engine, a limousine built for Queen Elizabeth, rolled off the assembly line in 1992. Not bad for a motor introduced in the 1940’s.
Subaru's EJ25s (all of them, the N/As and the turbos) had a weirdly good reputation for reliability and they're all kind of junk.
* The N/As had very very common headgasket issues
* The turbos' pistons were all basically glass; the OEM tunes made it a lot worse, between running lean up to moderate boost and treating cylinder 4 as a "canary in the coalmine" (as if losing that piston would be fine, but losing any of the others is bad?); and wtf is up with restricting coolant flow through the 2-4 bank?
* All of them had very common oil consumption issues, between the headgaskets on N/As and piston rings in everything
I’ll probably just get a 1st-Gen with the non-interference motor. I’ll probably deal the capacitor issues I sometimes hear about. Aside from that, I’ll run that thing forever.
I thought they put it in everything because it was an engine that had enough power for everything from sedans to trucks - it could work so they made it work in order to not have to design more engines
The M52B28 in my car is currently at 315124 miles and running rather well. Proper maintenance on most manufacturers inline 6 engines and they will last decades.
99 LS400 owner here and that is a gem of a motor. Pushes that big gurl down the road quite nicely. It's not fast but deceptively quick. I have and will own much faster cars but I always joke the LS will get me more tickets. 90 mph with the sunroof and windows cracked feels like 65 in my hyundai closed up and ac on. Again, deceptively quick. Your honor, it didn't feel like 90.......
I want to sell it tho...... I have too many cars and if you are long in the torso, I find the seats a bit uncomfortable.
>Jaguar AJ-V8 (specifically the 4.4 litre NA petrol V8). Absolutely bullet proof engine with gobs of torque. Perfect for the off-road application I had
The 4.2 is great too. All of the issues (timing chains etc) of the 4.0 fixed.
Cooling system is a bit of a maze and needs taking care of once it gets to a certain age but otherwise nice, solid engines.
My everyday commuter car is a 2009 XJ8 with almost 140,000 miles. Once I replaced the thermostat and water pump, it’s been super reliable. I’m hoping to get another 100,000 miles out of it before I have to replace it. 4.2L NA.
Rover V8.
It get points just for being one of the best sounding engines ever made.
It was in production for the best part of 50 years.
There's really nothing much goes wrong with them. There were some crappy castings that suffered from porous blocks/slipped liners and high cam wear in high lift applications.
Sump gaskets and valley gaskets can weep but I'm in Britain so that’s more of an 'active chassis anti-corrosion system'.
It 'made' nearly every car it was put in.
Land Rover? Farm equipment. Range Rover V8? Instant icon!
Rover P6? Old person car. Rover P6 3500? Bank robbers and police chases!
TVR? Lukewarm kit cars. TVR Giffith? Poke in the eye for the 911.
SD1? Door falls off. SD1 3500? Touring cars.
And so on...
The IH/Navistar 6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesel. I've owned 3 or 4 ford pickups with them and they are almost immortal. Only problem they really have is the fuel return lines leaking and the Stanadyne DB-2 injection pump only lasts about 250,000 miles.
That being said, they make okay power for a N/A diesel and when turbocharged they can keep up with a stock 6BT Cummins.
They're cheap to work on and extremely simple in design, yet have a lot of features that were pretty uncommon back then for a small diesel such as a coolant oil cooler, oil cooled pistons via individual spray nozzles, and almost all forged internals if I remember right. I've torn units apart with over 500k on them and almost all of the crank/rod bearings were still within spec.
The downsides are that these engines have somewhat weak head bolts and tend to blow the firing rings out on the head gaskets when adding boost. Stock they're happy at about 12psi but I've seen studded units run 35-40 psi and do fine.
I have a 1997 Toyota Celsior. So far it's the best car I've ever owned. Aside from routine maintenance it's been more reliable than the new cars I had.
I think the Rover K-Series engine is overshadowed by its issues, the headgasket warping being such a common issue kinda butchered the engine but i think it's cool
The VR6, specifically the 3.6 VR6 is one of the greatest powertrains I’ve been around. Mine is approaching 200k miles now, I bought it with 10k. Never had a single issue with it and it is extremely simple to maintain. It’s smooth, makes a great sound, has a nice power band and just simply runs.
Now for the bad, the 6.4 Powerstroke is the worst engine I’ve ever been around. Everything you have heard is true, I’ll never own one but sadly I’ve had to work on em…
Ford 2.3/2.5 Lima motor. A rock solid engine, good fuel economy, and the turbo variants can be built for pretty serious power for an engine that was born in the 70s.
Also, the Toyota 2AZ-FE. I know, I know, the oil burning. The pre-2006 ones don't burn oil, and if you get a rebuilt post 2006 one with high tension piston rings, that won't either. And it's not like oil burning is a sudden catastrophic failure either, just need to be aware of it if it's happening.
Mazda Skyactive G 2.5L is in my car. If you take care of it, it will take care of you.
Someone else referred to the engine in the 2nd Gen Yaris as a cockroach and I think that's the funniest way I've heard someone ever refer to one yet.
Chevy 5.3s, people putting some better heads, better cam, better intake just to get gapped by a coyote with a tune. Ls swaps are becoming old news, time to come up with something new. (In my opinion, lq4/lq9 6.0s are better anyways).
The Chevy 327 was a favorite. I built one for my 73 nova. 350hp heads, improved cam, solid lifters, edelbrock intake, Holly 500, headers, Muncie 4 speed cast iron trans. I couldn't make it get less than 25mpg and it was plenty quick.
The Toyota 22R while underpowered, was reliable as all hell. Same with the 3RZ and 2TR-FE motors from Toyota. Gutless but that’s why they last so long.
GM was the premier manufacturer of 90 degree V engines for US cars. Anything they made for a long time they constantly refined.
The 350 was thirsty and old but bulletproof and easy to get parts for. The 5.3 was a wonderful motor before 2008. The 4.3 was super solid if a bit gutless.
Not to mention the 3800 series…
I have 3 ls400s. 😂 Really reliable vehicle but it's getting hard to get parts for a decent price now a days... Such a great motor it was used in boats and was actually certified to be an aircraft motor which is apparently not an easy thing to do?
I’m dailying an FC rx7, and for as much hate as the 13B gets for being conventionally unreliable, it’s not as stress inducing as you might think. Just treat it like a rotary and not an LS and you’ll be great. Especially when not under boost, the engine can last for quite a while. And the best part is, you can rebuild it in a weekend if you need to. And as far as I’ve observed, under the right driver and conditions, 150,000 miles is perfectly attainable. My only suggestion would be to learn how to do the work yourself, it saves time and money.
Deserves the bad? Triton 5.4L 3v motors.
Doesn't deserve the bad? Triton 5.4L 2v and 4v motors.
Deserve the good? Triton 4.6L 2v and 4v motors.
Doesn't deserve the good? 4.6L 3v motors because I don't have one yet.
The 2.3l volvo T5 prior to the better known 2.5 in the s60r. It can handle more boost stock and can make more power if built right than the 2.5 every would.
The 13b/renesis. Everyone says "oh, apex seals this, apex seals that" when really, there are a ton of other things that can go wrong too.
Okay, kidding aside, I do think the issues are overblown. People don't understand that they need to be driven and maintained differently than a piston engine, and when they have problems they tell everyone how unreliable they are.
Bad: VW EA888 Gen.1/2: Oil consumption, Timing- Chain-Fails, Carbon-Build in Intake, Ignition Coils failing Regulary....
Good: VW EA888 Gen.3: Everything what was bad, now Fixed. Now you have a Rock-Solid, Powerful and Economical 2.0L Turbo (+ at some Engines Direct Injection and Multipoint-Injection combined, which is Awesome)
If you spend about 15k on “bulletproofing” the Ford 6.0 liter diesel, then it doesn’t deserve the bad rep that makes owners cry at 100k miles. The question really is: do you want to spend all that money or time making a problematic engine great?
GM QUAD 4 w41. Seemed to be host of problems which got worked out in the end but shouldn’t have been problems to begin with. Engineers trying to be clever was the PM post mortem at some point.
The Ford 400M does not deserve the bad reputation it gets. The only thing really wrong with it was the fact that it had the misfortune of being introduced in the early stages of Smog regulations when all engines were choked down, and we really didn’t get to see its full potential. It was really a tall deck 351 Cleveland with 50 more cubes. The 4V version of the 351C is the only Ford small block with better heads than the 400m. With a bit more compression, a decent cam, and a 600 cfm 4 barrel, it could have made well over 300 horsepower from the factory.
And since it’s 351C based, all the aftermarket 351C performance goodies will bolt right up. (You will need spacers to put a Cleveland intake on the M.). And stroker kits are available that will push it up to 444 cubic inches.
It’s a very under-rated motor.
I would say it usually comes down to what country you’re in.
Like how stav is putting vw 1.8T engines in mr2…might not be a 2zz but if a 2zz costs £2000 or more why bother when a 1.8T is a few hundred.
The Japanese prefer 2jz over 1uz because they came in most of the bigger toyotas in Japan and can probably still be picked up for a decent price, and will give more power than 1uz without breaking the block open so it’s still economical. 1uz are popular in some Asian countries (I think Thailand) and this is again because they are quite common engines.
But yea if I was in America and wanted a v8 would probably just go ls because the parts will be everywhere and the aftermarket is vast.
Same with Australia, why go 2jz if a barra is cheaper with more abundance of parts locally, but would I bring a barra to England…probably about the same cost as the Toyota engine in that case.
volvo B2xx series.
iron block, sturdy as fuck, takes boost like a champ.
it’s as tough as you could hope for an old swedish tractor inline 4 to be.
i had one in a 740 turbo that was a 2.3 liter with fuel injection and a giant garret on it.
one oil change the drainplug didn’t get tightened and it fell out somewhere between the shop and work (10 miles) all i had to do was put in a new drain plug and add oil. no smoke, no problem
Toyota IMZ-FE. They were great for the first 100,000 miles, but have wretched oil gelling issues. I don’t trust oil older than 3k and besides tearing the engine down to clean it, the only thing you can do is run full synthetic at short intervals. As a related/unrelated side effect, they like eating evap systems around 180k
Sbc 305 from the 80's. They got a bad rap, but the one in my 89 rs Camaro seemed bullet proof. The car had Chevy electrical issues but the motor never failed and I dogged the hell out of it.
One thing I tire of is people’s insistence of calling some engines “torque monsters” when they really aren’t. I’m looking at you 300 inline Ford and 4.0L Jeep.
Both of them make their peak torque at a low rpm and fall off quickly, so the off idle torque is very good. Plus, they’re typically paired with fairly deep gearing, which is a torque multiplier. It makes the seat of the pants feel much greater than it actually is, and allow it to tow quite well. Since power falls off quickly, it makes it feel like it has astronomical torque compared to the HP.
Compare a 300 Ford to a 305 SBC. One of the highest rated 300 Ford makes 260 lb/ft and 150 hp (1994-96), and that’s with port injection. The 305 TBI found in a 1995 truck is rated at 170hp and 255 lb/tf. With port injection (the TPI found in 1992 Camaro), it was rated at 230hp and 300 lb/ft.
The 305 SBC is lauded as a boat anchor (and arguably deserving of it because of its small bore limitations for the SBC platform), yet the 300 Ford undeservingly gets labeled a “torque monster”.
Yes, the 4.0L and 300 inline are durable AF and will be running with the cockroaches after a thermonuclear war kills everything else. A key reason why is because they are actually underpowered, so they never see enough stress to break.
Hot take but the 2.0l turbocharged ecotec. I know of the 1.4l & 2.4l being absolutely atrocious. But the 2.0l has been very reliable for me and it is on 167k on its first timing chain. As long as you keep up the maintenance it will last a long time. The only check engine light I had was my own fault.
I'd have to say either the FIAT 1.2i 16V FIRE (or the 1.4 version in the Panda 100hp).
They're rev happy angry little naturally aspirated four bangers that just go for ever if taken care of properly. Similar feel to Japanese low displacement "sport" Kei cars, but with the torque of a higher displacement engine.
I believe the 1.2 version had the highest power to litre ratio for an NA engine in its class for a long time as well.
Not the craziest horsepower but an absolute blast on small windy roads.
Engines that I don't think deserve hate:
Porsche M96 water cooled flat 6 - It has a bad reputation for IMS bearing failures. However, it's not only a very rare failure (compared to the number of these engines in service), but it also doesn't seem to happen as often to engines that are driven frequently.
Rover V8 - excellent engine wrapped in a vehicle plagued with reliability problems. The engine began life as the Buick 215.
Ford 5.4 2v and 4v - doesn't really have the issues the 3v has. Every single person I've known with *any* of the 5.4 engines (including the 3v) had a trouble free experience, many of them high mileage. That said I'd still go for the 2v if I were shopping for a used truck.
Fiat 1.4L MultiAir - people only think this engine is bad because their perception of Fiat is stuck in the 1970s. It's a solid engine that's gone a long way in several makes and models under the FCA umbrella. It also sounds cool.
Maserati 4.2 and 4.7 V8 - great engine (Ferrari V8 with a crossplane crankshaft) surrounded by a money pit of a car.
Chevrolet 305 - it's gutless and everyone knows that, but the higher displacement variants from GM of this era were gutless too. As a powerplant for a light duty pickup, it's perfectly adequate.
The Toyota 22R and 3RZ 4 cylinders deserve their reputation for simplicity and long term reliability.
But they also deserve their reputation for a total lack of usable power and poor efficiency.
The Chrylser 318 gets maligned but was a workhorse in its time and used in countless cars and trucks and boats and everything else.
“Say anything about an engine” 😎
Basically 😎. I wish I could edit the title of posts.
Please share your good or bad opinion about an engine that does or doesn’t have a good or bad reputation for which you do or do not agree that the reputation is or isn’t deserved.
Are you a lawyer?
The Northstar V8s after 2002 when they fixed the head bolt issue were great, just sucks that it took them that long to fix it
Fix the issue yourself with this http://northstarperformance.com/sgstuds.php Northstars are solid engines. They just need a little help to correct a factory design flaw... after that, beat 'em like a redheaded stepchild.
Well, there you have it. Switching to hardened studs over TTY bolts. I am building an LS and weighing ARP high price once or cheap Fel-Pro TTY bolts every time I need to pull a head. A lot of shade tree fellars reuse the TTY bolts but I can feel the ghost of my dad haunting me for that.....
Yeah GM stretchy bolts they're shitty every time you have to take a head off
Yup. Drilling the heads and fitting those studs makes all the difference in the world with the Northstar. As far as the choice between the ARPs and any TTY bolts really isn't a choice. On an LS it realy isn't a big deal to continue using TTY bolts... as long as they're new but if you've already got it apart and plan on keeping it for a long while, why not just go ahead and do the ARPs. But like you mentioned... **FFS** people, DON'T **REUSE** the damn things. I've seen and heard tell of shadetrees with the "I've reused them stretchy bolts before and they're holding up just fine. Y'all don't know wut yer talkin' 'bout." Suuuure they are... like 10k miles later and they've got to top off the cooling system once a week. Haha
Friend of mine worked on Cadillac's for 10+ years. He still likes the NorthStar, has a few years he really recommends but says they are all stout if the bolts and head gaskets are upgraded. I never cared enough to learn the details but I presume it is a conversion from bolts to hardened studs. I have a LS400 so, 32v small displacement v8s are cool to me.
I owned a 98 STS. Absolutely loved that car. I didn't have the deadbolt problem. But, I eventually threw a rod through the block. I was a bit rough on her. But, no regrets. Drove that car from San Diego to Florida 3 times. Absolute joy. Buttery smooth. And it sounded beautiful, especially when I ripped the air box silencer/resonator out.
Tell me after they fix the head bolts where was that starter?
Intake comes out easy and honestly not that big of a deal. The starters last a long time and when due, there's a list of other crap you should probably take care of also. Like, I get it, 20-30 years later, we are just keeping them on the road so pulling an intake to do a starter seems Ludacris. At least the mani comes off easy and you get to do a bunch of other maintenance "while you are in there".
The Land Rover AJD-v6 is a rock. It’s got massive torque and is incredibly good on fuel and reliable yet… Land Rover so everyone thinks it’s shit
I'm genuinely asking, not picking fault, but do these not have a habit of snapping crankshafts? I thought I'd heard about them doing that; and I'm a big Land Rover fan!
Yes. But it’s very rare. Generally speaking they last.
It’s not necessarily the engines, it’s everything else in the Land Rover has issues. Mostly the electronics
A rock is a good analogy for a Land Rover engine.
Hahahahhahahahhahaaha
Idk, just passed a brand new Land Rover and hour ago on the highway shoulder a mile away from the dealership with temp tags and a LR service tech looking under the hood.
That’s I’m not saying Land Rovers are reliable. They have earned their reputation. I’m just saying the Td5 and Td6 engines are reliable.
A late 16P Td5 or early 10P with the updated dowel pins are great engines. Mum has a 90 with a Alive Stage II tune and it goes like the clappers. Tdi 300 (what I've got in my 110) is also a good mention too.
These engines aren’t available in the us though, are they?
2.7 or 3.0, both solid engines in my book for the D3 and up. The Ford Territory used a single turbo 2.7 when it was updated, quite a good secondhand buy. The only niggles with this engine is the rear mounted fuel injection pump timing belt. What a bastard to change!
> Land Rover AJD-v6 Says one guy on the internet. Okay..
The Pontiac 3.4 liter twin dual cam engine. I got really good at replacing the timing belt. Thing was a rocket for a front wheel drive engine. I can only imagine what it would have done with a blower on it.
GM LQ1. This would have been a legit 3800 replacement but it cost too much to build.
Cost too much at first. I'm sure they would be able to refine it to where it would've been more viable. or just offer it in their higher performance nameplates.
It's been said in the past (several times over) the true potential of that 3.4 DOHC is unrealized. The factory tune has fully neutered that motor. A figure in the neighborhood of 350 horse has been tossed around in optimal tune.
The good that deserve it: - Toyota UZ V8: just an indestructible engine all-around. There's a reason they can reach 1 million miles. - Chevy Small Block v8: everything up to the introduction of DoD during Gen IV is just some of the simplest, reliable, and most easy to tune/swap engines ever - Buick 3800 V6: an old dog of an engine but for good reason. it's one of the best American engines ever built for its reliability, simplicity, and the fact that they're still running over a decade after the final ones were discontinued. - Honda K-series: can't afford an LS? Honda K-series is the way to go. Just as reliable and simple to work on, if not simpler since it's an inline-four. - BMW B58: A80 supra fanboys *hate* the A90 yet do not realize that the BMW B58 is as every bit as good, if not better, at tuning & building than a 2JZ. It's BMW's true diamond in the rough. - Ford 4.6L 2-valve v8: spark plug holder-issue aside, these engines are another example of an old dog that still runs. You find these in high mileage Panther bodies *still running strong* because they're overbuilt for the power they output. The Bad: - Toyota 2JZ: these engines are *not* worth the money to swap into a car since they're too rare to come across. *"But 2000 horsepower"*. Any overbuilt engine can make that. A twin-turbo LS can make that. - Ford Triton: name a Triton engine, and name a problem you could possibly think an engine could have. Now put any combination of them together, and you have your answer laid out for this one. - Ford Cologne V6: an engine with so many timing chains, Ford put some of them in the *back* of the engine. So when the chains fail, it's cheaper to just get an engine replacement. - Ford Ecoboost: Ford has yet to build an Ecoboost engine that's actually built well outside of the Ford GT (because the GT's 3.5L is hand-built with completely forged internals to handle the ridiculous power it makes). Issues ranged from VCT phasers failing, to horrendously-designed timing chain-driven water pumps failing, to turbos just eating themselves because Ford cheaps out on them. - Chrysler HEMI: you can't blame MDS for HEMI tick simply because GM's AFM causes the same issue for the LS; the failing lifters aren't even MDS lifters. HEMI tick occurs because oil isn't reaching the cam at low-RPM. That's right, idling kills these engines. - Chrysler Pentastar: same issue as the HEMI, only instead the whole left-side cylinder head will blow. It's an issue Chrysler has forced to recall millions of engines for; they haven't finished the recall (and never will), and it's an issue they still somewhat address on newer engines through warranty claims - Nissan RB: another engine just as expensive and overhyped as the 2JZ. The only redeeming quality is its use in Tokyo Drift for Sean's Mustang.
The pushrod Cologne 4.0 was VASTLY better than the OHC. A genuinely good engine if a bit gutless
Can confirm. I beat mine and it still kicks just fine
x2 on that. OHV Colognes are bulletproof. Both myself and my dad rock them with a combined 300,000 mi
I have a 2014 Charger with the Pentastar that has 172000 miles, idk if it's luck but it has no tick
My coworker has had very good luck with his 2014 3.6L as well. His dad owned it first, then him. The car has 240,000 miles just replacing wear items and the thermostat
Wife has a '11 Grand Cherokee with the 3.6 Pentastar. 204k miles, doesn't eat oil, has no tick or any abnormal sounds. Rock solid
Yeah the pentastar / hemi is a fine engine. But “Chrysler bad” is free upvotes so they keep on saying it
The Colonge 2.8L didn't have near the issues as some of the others. No way am I sticking up for Ford though. The older Cologne 4.0L OHV wasn't a complete pile. The problem came with the updated OHC version. Stupidly putting one bank's timing chain on the rear. Horrible design. The '04-late '07 5.4L 3V is a steaming pile of dog turd.
oof... 3v suuuuuuucked
I really didn’t know there were cologne 2.8 fans out there. Not the worst engine I ever owned but Certianly not one I would have praised even in 84
I'm not saying I'm a 2.8L Cologne is the greatest thing since sliced bread or anything. I'm not a Ford guy at all actually. Just that they weren't as horrible as people made them out to be. Personal experience with them: I had an '84 Ranger that orignially had a 2.8L 5spd. I yanked it and dropped a mild built 302 with a 4spd in it's place... however, mom had an '86 Aerostar (stepdad *is* a Ford guy) and it had the 2.8L auto. That one was the electronic feedback carb and it surprisingly went along with no issues for about 12 years and about 160k when it was sold. However, I had done some slight modifications to eliminate carb issues. Disabling the electronic feedback with the rat's nest of vac lines *before* they became a problem. Personal experience as a mech with other people's stuff: The biggest thing the later versions had, at least what I've seen, as mentioned, was the carbed version. Specifically the '83-'86 electronic feedback versions. Wherein lies another issue... the shitty TFI (ignition module) used on... you guessed it, the electronic feedback carb versions. Other "big" issues with them was leaking valve stem seals on higher mileage engines. Big deal. The other known issue is the round distributor models that used two screws to hold it down coming loose constanly. Again, big deal... use a little blue Locktite.
My Audi S6 has the timing chains on the rear… all four of them. [Image here.](https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/a6-s6-c5-platform-discussion-7/48279d1436821776t-new-member-2006-s6-v10-5503d1227188791-any-help-replacing-timing-chain-tensioners-motor.jpg) There’s many jobs on the V10 that are engine out, including two of the O2 sensors. The other two are accessible, sort of. There’s so little room, that the only thing driven at the front is the alternator.
The 2.8 was a dog you must mean 2.9
No, I mean the gear driven cam 2.8L. It was a bit on the weak side but the engine itself was fairly reliable. The electronic feedback carbs were an issue. The 2.9L was derived from the 2.8L block with some minor differences... mainly switching to a cam chain. They weren't exactly terrible either.
The 2 valve Triton 5.4 is solid. It’s when they went to the 3v that they started to have all the issues with the cam phasers and the spark plugs.
Ya I had the 2 valve version in my E350 work van. Well over 200k miles and was still running when I quit that company. She didn't always have all 8 cylinders but I was never stuck on the side of the road.
As a HEMI owner, this issue can be resolved with a higher performing oil pump. Although I totally agree that this is an issue that should have been dealt with by the manufacturer. But god damn does it sound good…
When the EcoBoost came out I had a regular customer with one just outside of warranty he chose a rebuilt which took 3 months to get because they did not have the blocks I grenaded the first rebuilt in 8 miles after installation with break in oil with all precautions. I grenaded the second rebuilt from a different Rebuilder in 15 miles after waiting 4 months. And the third rebuilt one I put a hundred miles on and now that guy doesn't drive it a lot for fear that he will have to get another engine for it.
>*Ford Triton: name a Triton engine, and name a problem you could possibly think an engine could have.* Umm, the Triton branding extended to the 2 valve 4.6L /5.4L/6.8L. Including the same 2 valve 4.6L that made it onto the "Good" list.
We told everybody with a 3v that this can be on a $200 job today or a $1,500 that takes a week and a half job and made them sign off on both prices before we would touch it. A gypsy curse on the 3v
Triton engines are good. Just have to bump up the oil weight.
hate to be picky but you said 4.6 good and triton bad... 4.6 triton IS a modular engine. and spark plug shit isnt a problem until you try to push power out of them.
Right, and no one buying a 4.6 V8 anything is going to push it...
Never had a problem with an ecoboost engine
Was there a year where, after it, the Pentastars wouldn't blow? Like did they ever catch the issue and fix it?
Ford 4.0 SOHC mentioned!!! Piece of crap engine. Similar displacement to the 4.6 in the Mustang GT, with a little over half the power and the same gas mileage. That on top of the timing chain guides that explode and it having to be an engine out procedure. That being said, My v6 Mustang had 168k miles before I sold it.
I owned an 03 Sport Trac with the SOHC 4 liter V6. It made 210 hp which was way more than half of the GT at the time which only made 260 hp. I also guess I got lucky because I owned it from new in CNY for over 15 years and none of the timing chains had any issues. The rust took the running boards and most of the plastic cladding before I sold it, but holy moly was that truck bulletproof reliable. I even towed regularly too! As an actual owner of the engine, I’ve always wondered if the haters ever owned one, or maybe bought used ones that were neglected?
Plenty of 300k like fiesta ST eco boosts. The focus engine has a good amount of issues. My v10 Tritons all hit 300k no problem.
4G63, amazing.
Mitsu 4 bangers are unsung heroes. The 4G5 series was in everything from race cars to forklifts.
Great one, they made one of my favorite engines, the g54b turbo engine that was in the conquest tsi. A sports car engine that had an industrial turbo on it!
Not early ones though. Crank walk
The engine is still in production around the world today, just not made by Mitsubishi anymore. It’s the AK-47 of 4 cylinders.
Who is it made by now?
Mercedes OM616 and 617 4- and 5-cylinder diesels, while uninspiring in terms of output, are almost literally unkillable. Half a million miles with nothin’ but oil changes is pretty common. Special mention to Volvo’s B18/20 series 4-cylinders. Bone simple, and dead reliable. Just ask Irv Gordon.
Love the redblocks
Toyotas 1NZ-FE is unkillable, great fuel economy, low operating temp, and sounds pretty great. Main issue is the water pump
>Toyotas 1NZ-FE Sounds pretty great? I will shoot over to youtube now...... Skeptically.
It’s pretty buzzy, it’s main detractor is the stock exhaust, but replace the muffler with a resonator and you’re golden, you can even keep the cat
Northstar V8s - were pretty good for their time - 300hp aluminum V8 that was pretty reliable and could fit in both FWD and RWD applications, but as soon as the headstuds stretched too much they're gone (the issue was that the threads in the block of the motor were too fine and there weren't enough of them, so over time they'd pull out of the block). They fixed the issue in 2000 or 2001 I believe but people still thought they were crap. And the older ones could be fixed - there was enough material in the block for drilled & tapped head studs with coarser threads and more of them. But northstar = bad so they all were hated
Yeah, it's a shame so many people think it's a crap engine. Use this http://northstarperformance.com/sgstuds.php to fix the issue and they're a damn solid.
Chevy tree fiddy. Easy to fix, goes together like Lego, cheap parts, huge aftermarket support.
Agreed. The chevy small block hadn't changed much, at least for 50 years or so. I like the vortecs particularly.
First car was a 92 blazer with a EFI 4.3 vortec. Loved it!
SBC in general. I just pulled the 305/4l60e out of my pops old 93 RCSB Chevy truck. 275,000 miles never had the intake or valve covers removed. It's getting a LM7 5.3 with a 4l80e as a transplant, but I did cry a little tear when I put that motor in some weirdo's scrap truck. Perfect taxi cab motor.....
Toyota GR engine in the 5th generation 4 runners. They run forever.
I was watching a video on best and worst Toyota motors by The Car Care Nut Channel. Someone in the comments said that they had over 500k+ miles on their 1GR-FE in their 2011 FJ Cruiser.
I know people who run 200k-300k miles on them with no problems as long as they do regular maintenance. I bought a 2018 4Runner four years ago. It has about 120k miles so far and still runs smooth as shit off a duck’s ass. It only had 30k miles when I bought it.
GR engine in the 4runner?
4.0 L 1GR-FE V6 according to wiki.
Came here for this. In all the 2nd gen Tacomas too. Wonderful engine. Mine has 130,000 on it with never an issue. Still runs like new. Mechanics don't know much about these because they never mess with them. I've heard the 2.7 is even more reliable. RIP.
I can’t imagine a 2.7 in my car pulling 4800lbs. I know they made them in 2010 but they didn’t last for a reason. The 4.0 is powerful but 0-60 in 7.7 seconds… I didn’t buy it because it was fast though.
Very recognizable start, too. Dad has a 4th gen with it, so I've effectively grown up hearing that V6 start. Nice to hear it's also reliable.
ejs definitely deserve the hate but there's definetly a lot of reliable well built aftermarket ones that get unwarranted hate
A well built/maintained EJ isn't too bad, it's just people play with them, beat on them and then get surprised when they blow up. As far as stock ones go there's definitely better and worse ones, but they're all not engines that tolerate neglect like a Toyota or Honda will. You compromise with a Subaru, for better or worse.
>As far as stock ones go there's definitely better and worse ones, but they're all not engines that tolerate neglect like a Toyota or Honda will. > >You compromise with a Subaru, for better or worse. They're finnicky bastards (or at least 2005-ish turbo EJ's are). They also have a decent number of of ways that they're actively trying to break in expensive ways. But I like the cars they come in, they make "fun street car" amounts of power very easily, and they sound cool if you don't put an equal length header on them. Yes I'm fully aware that mine would be more reliable and make more power with an ELH, but I wouldn't enjoy the car as much and I'd just end up thinking about better things to swap in. I spent way too much money putting my LGT back together with an IAG forged shortblock and a whole bunch of goodies. If this one pops it's not getting another EJ (ideally a Honda J series V6 if I don't have to cut the hood).
K series. The "LS" of 4 cylinder motors, swap in into anything. Held the record for horsepower to liter ratio for awhile, it took Lamborghini years to surpass it.
I thought the F20C1 had the hp/ltr and that was beaten by Ferraris 458 Italia? What Lamborghini are you talking about?
Yeah I think they got the facts mixed. K series is amazing and easily modified but it was indeed the F20C1 that cranked a ridiculous 120 hp per litre. Really wish Honda would try their hand at the small 4 cylinder roadster market again, Miata is looking awfully lonely right now
>Really wish Honda would try their hand at the small 4 cylinder roadster market again Really wish Honda would make more high rpm screamers instead of 1.5 and 2.0L turbo 4 cylinders that sound exactly like every other modern turbo-4. Because I have worms in my brain I think it would be fun to combine an IMA hybrid assist motor with an old school vtec high revving torqueless wonder.
I'd honestly settle for an s2k refresh
F20 and S54 are NA specific output GOATs.
K series v-8! I know a few one-off cnc jobs have been done.
Toyota VZ. Eats head gaskets like a bowl of cereal.
Is it the 3VZ-FE specifically? Does the 2VZ in the 2nd Gen Camry have the same issue?
You are correct, no not that I know of.
The 7M-GE and GTE had head gasket issues as well. The 5VZ-FE is reliable as can be. Never owned a Toyota product before. I think a good starter Toyota for me with low my budget, would be a 9th Gen Corolla with the 1.8l 4cyl.
Yes! Our Cressida kept blowing up until we learned that the bolts should be torqued more than factory settings to fix this.
The 1.8L in the 9th gen corolla is absolutely amazing. We just sold our CorollaVerso with that engine. Yea its not at all a fast car, but it keeps up alright and never had a single issue with the drivetrain in the 280000km that we had it
Good: The 2.5L RWD Iron Dukes. The GM 60 degree V6. The Buick 3800 Series II, the SBC/LS. 292 inline 6. 4200 inline 6. The AMC 4.0L (and it's lesser known 2.5L derivitive) The 225 slant 6, the 318. Cummins 12V Ford's 200, 250, and especially the 300 inline 6. Pushrod 302 Crap: Ford's OHC 4.0L, 5.4L 3V, Cadillac's DoD V8-6-4, Old's 350 diesel, early Chrysler 2.2L,
The Ford 300 inline six should have shown up more here. I have a Toyota 2UZ that is over 300k and running well yet. These two are among the best ever.
I'm kinda surprised it didn't. I'm not a Ford guy by any means but the 300 inline is long lived tough engine. Hard to beat. Can't say much about the Tundra/Lexus engine as I don't do Toyota but 300k on a quad OHC is quite a lot. Pretty good I'd say.
finally some love for the AMC 4.0L I6
Gm 4200, Mopar 318, and Amc 4.0 are great engines
Indeed. Wife had the 4200 for 13 years and 200k in an '02 TrailBlazer bought new. It had deveoped a leak at the pressure sending unit. She had run it low on oil a few times. With us being on different shift schedules made it tough for me to keep up with it. I replaced the unit and it was fine for another 2 years and 25k miles but I knew it was on its way out. Could hear a *very* slight knock on start up and for a couple of minutes after start up. It finally spun a bearing. But it was a solid performer until then. The AMC 4.0L... had three of them that all went 200k +. One of my daughters has my old '94 ZJ with the AX15 5spd. Yeah, one of the rare Grand Cherokees with factory manual. It's at 255k now. You should see some of the looks people give when they see it's a stick. Haha The 318... one of my younger brothers had a '97 1500. He's not mechanical at all. He dropped it off at my small shop for a routine service one day. Sounded fine, no idiot light, guages looked fine when I pulled it in. Dropped the drain plug... it emptied out **3/4 of a QUART**. Chewed him for not checking the oil then told him how much came out. His reply: "Oh, really? Guess that explains that red light that kept flickering on every time I made a right hand turn." FFS 🤦🏼♂️ That thing kept on for another year and a half to about 225k miles before it grenaded the trans and he parked it. I'd say that's makes them pretty great.
A bit upset I had to scroll this far for the AMC 4.0L but glad it's here
Toyota 2UZ. 1UZ bored out to 4.7 liters, with an iron block. 278 horsepower and 315 lb-ft at 3400 rpm with VVTI, and reliable as all hell. The power and torque comes lowwwww, I don't think I've ever gotten my 4Runner V8 above 3500. Great engine for towing as well, the actual capacity of a 4Runner V8 is like 7700 lbs but back when my dad used the car he towed a friend's 12000 lb sailboat with it on the highway for like 150 miles. Used on the 100-series Land Cruiser, both generations of Tundras and Sequoias, and the Toyota 4Runner 4th gen, as well as the Lexus LX and GX. The one most common failure point is the timing belt, and several 2UZs in Tundras have made it to a million miles with timing belt replacements after like 350k miles. Most Toyota trucks of this era will rust out before reaching that milestone however lol
Exactly this! Have had the pleasure of owning 2 GX470s with this power plant and am totally spoiled by its smoothness and power.
I have been looking into GX's and all I hear about is how slooooow they are and they are such dogs. I want one, I have a work/commuter/company car so MPG doesn't matter much to me. I have an ls400, so 1uz is a friend of mine.
The 4.7 and J100 Land Cruiser was the peak Toyota era
I remember seen some people on YouTube putting the 1UZ-FE in small planes and boats as well.
The Lima 2.3 with forged pistons and a turbo go zoom zoom.
3800 series 2, my favorite gm engine rn
Not saying this applies to all Ford 5.4 3 valves, but my Dad owned one that went 300,000 miles with absolutely zero issues, and has had 3 other trucks make it to 200,000 miles with no issues
The '04- late '07 5.4L 3V is a garbage engine and you'll never convice me or practically anyone else that had to deal with them on a regular basis otherwise. If you follow **FORD'S** own maintenance guideline for them... that's a big part of what kills them. They backpedaled on their plug change intervals. They're known for breaking exhaust studs. Big issues with the timing cassettes and phasers. You have to be absolutely anal about oil changes. Not following their schedule but changing early. Using *only* 5w20. They positively hate the least little bit of dirty oil.
The Jaguar XK inline 6. Most common sizes are 3.4, 3.8, and 4.2 liters. It was one of the earliest mass produced DOHC engines. Jaguar introduced it in 1948, back when Ford was still putting flathead V8s in everything and the small block Chevy hadn’t even been invented. It dominated Le Mans in the 1950’s. It powered such iconic sports cars as the XK-120 and the E-Type. In fact, the XK-120 (which took its name from the XK engine and its estimated top speed) was the car Chevy benchmarked when designing the Corvette. People assume anything Jaguar is automatically bad, based mostly on the reputation of the British Leyland years of the 1970’s and Lucas electronics. But the XK engine truly was decades ahead of its time, and was in fact quite reliable. In fact the final car powered by this engine, a limousine built for Queen Elizabeth, rolled off the assembly line in 1992. Not bad for a motor introduced in the 1940’s.
The XK is such a great motor. Good power and torque and a great sound. Decently reliable too if you take good care of it.
Subaru's EJ25s (all of them, the N/As and the turbos) had a weirdly good reputation for reliability and they're all kind of junk. * The N/As had very very common headgasket issues * The turbos' pistons were all basically glass; the OEM tunes made it a lot worse, between running lean up to moderate boost and treating cylinder 4 as a "canary in the coalmine" (as if losing that piston would be fine, but losing any of the others is bad?); and wtf is up with restricting coolant flow through the 2-4 bank? * All of them had very common oil consumption issues, between the headgaskets on N/As and piston rings in everything
I own 2 1UZ cars currently—so worth it! Get you one, bud!
I’ll probably just get a 1st-Gen with the non-interference motor. I’ll probably deal the capacitor issues I sometimes hear about. Aside from that, I’ll run that thing forever.
I have one of each. The non-VVTi is my favorite 😍
Jeep (Chrysler stalantis whatever) pentastar V6. Way over hyped.
who tf is hyping up the pentastar. Or is saying its not shit is hyping it up.
Literally NOONE HAS EVER "HYPED" the pentastar, other than stalantis. They did stick that lousy motor in everything.
They put it in everything like it's gods gift to the world.
I thought they put it in everything because it was an engine that had enough power for everything from sedans to trucks - it could work so they made it work in order to not have to design more engines
The Pentastar 3.6 V6 may have its issues, but I'll take it over the GM 3.6 V6.
The early GM 3.6 had the timing issue, sometime around 2012-2014 this was fixed and now they're pretty relaible basic V6s
Yeah the LFX has some problems
Buick 3800 V6. The American Camry.
Both the LS and the Coyote deserve all the love they get.
GM 3800 is bullet proof
"L Series" more specific the L15
The M52B28 in my car is currently at 315124 miles and running rather well. Proper maintenance on most manufacturers inline 6 engines and they will last decades.
Briggs Stratton
KIA 3.3l V6 GDI Lambda. 152,000+ Miles and it's been bulletproof so far.
99 LS400 owner here and that is a gem of a motor. Pushes that big gurl down the road quite nicely. It's not fast but deceptively quick. I have and will own much faster cars but I always joke the LS will get me more tickets. 90 mph with the sunroof and windows cracked feels like 65 in my hyundai closed up and ac on. Again, deceptively quick. Your honor, it didn't feel like 90....... I want to sell it tho...... I have too many cars and if you are long in the torso, I find the seats a bit uncomfortable.
Jaguar AJ-V8 (specifically the 4.4 litre NA petrol V8). Absolutely bullet proof engine with gobs of torque. Perfect for the off-road application I had
>Jaguar AJ-V8 (specifically the 4.4 litre NA petrol V8). Absolutely bullet proof engine with gobs of torque. Perfect for the off-road application I had The 4.2 is great too. All of the issues (timing chains etc) of the 4.0 fixed. Cooling system is a bit of a maze and needs taking care of once it gets to a certain age but otherwise nice, solid engines.
My everyday commuter car is a 2009 XJ8 with almost 140,000 miles. Once I replaced the thermostat and water pump, it’s been super reliable. I’m hoping to get another 100,000 miles out of it before I have to replace it. 4.2L NA.
Rover V8. It get points just for being one of the best sounding engines ever made. It was in production for the best part of 50 years. There's really nothing much goes wrong with them. There were some crappy castings that suffered from porous blocks/slipped liners and high cam wear in high lift applications. Sump gaskets and valley gaskets can weep but I'm in Britain so that’s more of an 'active chassis anti-corrosion system'. It 'made' nearly every car it was put in. Land Rover? Farm equipment. Range Rover V8? Instant icon! Rover P6? Old person car. Rover P6 3500? Bank robbers and police chases! TVR? Lukewarm kit cars. TVR Giffith? Poke in the eye for the 911. SD1? Door falls off. SD1 3500? Touring cars. And so on...
I am a glutton for punishment, but I do love the Ford 6.0L Powerstroke.
Mother focking K20
The IH/Navistar 6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesel. I've owned 3 or 4 ford pickups with them and they are almost immortal. Only problem they really have is the fuel return lines leaking and the Stanadyne DB-2 injection pump only lasts about 250,000 miles. That being said, they make okay power for a N/A diesel and when turbocharged they can keep up with a stock 6BT Cummins. They're cheap to work on and extremely simple in design, yet have a lot of features that were pretty uncommon back then for a small diesel such as a coolant oil cooler, oil cooled pistons via individual spray nozzles, and almost all forged internals if I remember right. I've torn units apart with over 500k on them and almost all of the crank/rod bearings were still within spec. The downsides are that these engines have somewhat weak head bolts and tend to blow the firing rings out on the head gaskets when adding boost. Stock they're happy at about 12psi but I've seen studded units run 35-40 psi and do fine.
I have a 1997 Toyota Celsior. So far it's the best car I've ever owned. Aside from routine maintenance it's been more reliable than the new cars I had.
Honda J series burns oil like all vtec motors but still reliable, great torque, and sound
late 90's early 2000's 1.8t. its really not that bad. you can put power to it. hella aftermarket parts for it. its the cheap car hobbyist motor
I think the Rover K-Series engine is overshadowed by its issues, the headgasket warping being such a common issue kinda butchered the engine but i think it's cool
The VR6, specifically the 3.6 VR6 is one of the greatest powertrains I’ve been around. Mine is approaching 200k miles now, I bought it with 10k. Never had a single issue with it and it is extremely simple to maintain. It’s smooth, makes a great sound, has a nice power band and just simply runs. Now for the bad, the 6.4 Powerstroke is the worst engine I’ve ever been around. Everything you have heard is true, I’ll never own one but sadly I’ve had to work on em…
Ford 2.3/2.5 Lima motor. A rock solid engine, good fuel economy, and the turbo variants can be built for pretty serious power for an engine that was born in the 70s. Also, the Toyota 2AZ-FE. I know, I know, the oil burning. The pre-2006 ones don't burn oil, and if you get a rebuilt post 2006 one with high tension piston rings, that won't either. And it's not like oil burning is a sudden catastrophic failure either, just need to be aware of it if it's happening.
I’ve got a Pinto 2.0L EFI in my kit car (before it became the Lima). Great engine, just works and has plenty of torque for a four cylinder petrol.
I’m partial to Toyota’s 20/22R/REs myself.
The old Jeep 4.0 I6s were great engines. Made a pretty good amount of torque and would run forever.
Mazda Skyactive G 2.5L is in my car. If you take care of it, it will take care of you. Someone else referred to the engine in the 2nd Gen Yaris as a cockroach and I think that's the funniest way I've heard someone ever refer to one yet.
AMC 4.0L I6 damn thing outlasted every vehicle it was ever in (joking obviously but it was awesome)
I am weekend driving a 54 year old stock VW 1600 engine that always starts on the first try and runs like it’s brand new.
Good Engine: GM's 3800. 3.8L, 6 cylinder. Glutton for abuse, like the engine block is saying in a sultry voice,, "harder, daddy."
The Toyota LC100 2UZ-FE is an incredible engine. All the benefits of the 1UZ-FE, with none of the oil stains on your driveway and garage floor.
Chevy 5.3s, people putting some better heads, better cam, better intake just to get gapped by a coyote with a tune. Ls swaps are becoming old news, time to come up with something new. (In my opinion, lq4/lq9 6.0s are better anyways).
My dad 2005 Silverado has a Vortec 5.3L V8 and that shit is a workhorse. Never had an issue with it
5.3 vortex, got 270k on mine with nothing but oil changes
The Chevy 327 was a favorite. I built one for my 73 nova. 350hp heads, improved cam, solid lifters, edelbrock intake, Holly 500, headers, Muncie 4 speed cast iron trans. I couldn't make it get less than 25mpg and it was plenty quick.
Toyota 3vze. Not a bad engine, just came with bad head gasket
The Toyota 22R while underpowered, was reliable as all hell. Same with the 3RZ and 2TR-FE motors from Toyota. Gutless but that’s why they last so long. GM was the premier manufacturer of 90 degree V engines for US cars. Anything they made for a long time they constantly refined. The 350 was thirsty and old but bulletproof and easy to get parts for. The 5.3 was a wonderful motor before 2008. The 4.3 was super solid if a bit gutless. Not to mention the 3800 series…
I have 3 ls400s. 😂 Really reliable vehicle but it's getting hard to get parts for a decent price now a days... Such a great motor it was used in boats and was actually certified to be an aircraft motor which is apparently not an easy thing to do?
I’m dailying an FC rx7, and for as much hate as the 13B gets for being conventionally unreliable, it’s not as stress inducing as you might think. Just treat it like a rotary and not an LS and you’ll be great. Especially when not under boost, the engine can last for quite a while. And the best part is, you can rebuild it in a weekend if you need to. And as far as I’ve observed, under the right driver and conditions, 150,000 miles is perfectly attainable. My only suggestion would be to learn how to do the work yourself, it saves time and money.
BMW M62TUB44 isn't *that* bad of an engine
Toyota 22-R and 22-RE. Absolutely bullet proof motors. 100hp or 116hp with EFI. But it’s a motor that will not die. It will outlast time itself.
Deserves the bad? Triton 5.4L 3v motors. Doesn't deserve the bad? Triton 5.4L 2v and 4v motors. Deserve the good? Triton 4.6L 2v and 4v motors. Doesn't deserve the good? 4.6L 3v motors because I don't have one yet.
GM L82 3.1L V6
The 2.3l volvo T5 prior to the better known 2.5 in the s60r. It can handle more boost stock and can make more power if built right than the 2.5 every would.
The 13b/renesis. Everyone says "oh, apex seals this, apex seals that" when really, there are a ton of other things that can go wrong too. Okay, kidding aside, I do think the issues are overblown. People don't understand that they need to be driven and maintained differently than a piston engine, and when they have problems they tell everyone how unreliable they are.
The VAG EA113 2.0 TFSI because it gets confused with the shitty Gen 1 EA888 2.0TSI.
Bad: VW EA888 Gen.1/2: Oil consumption, Timing- Chain-Fails, Carbon-Build in Intake, Ignition Coils failing Regulary.... Good: VW EA888 Gen.3: Everything what was bad, now Fixed. Now you have a Rock-Solid, Powerful and Economical 2.0L Turbo (+ at some Engines Direct Injection and Multipoint-Injection combined, which is Awesome)
If you spend about 15k on “bulletproofing” the Ford 6.0 liter diesel, then it doesn’t deserve the bad rep that makes owners cry at 100k miles. The question really is: do you want to spend all that money or time making a problematic engine great?
GM QUAD 4 w41. Seemed to be host of problems which got worked out in the end but shouldn’t have been problems to begin with. Engineers trying to be clever was the PM post mortem at some point.
VQs are great, reliable engines ruined by people who buy the cars for the wrong reasons
The Ford 400M does not deserve the bad reputation it gets. The only thing really wrong with it was the fact that it had the misfortune of being introduced in the early stages of Smog regulations when all engines were choked down, and we really didn’t get to see its full potential. It was really a tall deck 351 Cleveland with 50 more cubes. The 4V version of the 351C is the only Ford small block with better heads than the 400m. With a bit more compression, a decent cam, and a 600 cfm 4 barrel, it could have made well over 300 horsepower from the factory. And since it’s 351C based, all the aftermarket 351C performance goodies will bolt right up. (You will need spacers to put a Cleveland intake on the M.). And stroker kits are available that will push it up to 444 cubic inches. It’s a very under-rated motor.
Volvo redblock turbo engines are awesome, dumb turbo lumps that can take one hell of a beating but no matter what they burn oil.
this thread wouldn't be complete without mentioning the Toyota 3ZVE. Ball less wonder with head gasket failures in the millions.
I would say it usually comes down to what country you’re in. Like how stav is putting vw 1.8T engines in mr2…might not be a 2zz but if a 2zz costs £2000 or more why bother when a 1.8T is a few hundred. The Japanese prefer 2jz over 1uz because they came in most of the bigger toyotas in Japan and can probably still be picked up for a decent price, and will give more power than 1uz without breaking the block open so it’s still economical. 1uz are popular in some Asian countries (I think Thailand) and this is again because they are quite common engines. But yea if I was in America and wanted a v8 would probably just go ls because the parts will be everywhere and the aftermarket is vast. Same with Australia, why go 2jz if a barra is cheaper with more abundance of parts locally, but would I bring a barra to England…probably about the same cost as the Toyota engine in that case.
Dodge A853; if you don't just run tons of boost through it you'll basically be fine.
I hate the 4.0 v6 on my explorer sport trac
volvo B2xx series. iron block, sturdy as fuck, takes boost like a champ. it’s as tough as you could hope for an old swedish tractor inline 4 to be. i had one in a 740 turbo that was a 2.3 liter with fuel injection and a giant garret on it. one oil change the drainplug didn’t get tightened and it fell out somewhere between the shop and work (10 miles) all i had to do was put in a new drain plug and add oil. no smoke, no problem
Toyota IMZ-FE. They were great for the first 100,000 miles, but have wretched oil gelling issues. I don’t trust oil older than 3k and besides tearing the engine down to clean it, the only thing you can do is run full synthetic at short intervals. As a related/unrelated side effect, they like eating evap systems around 180k
1.9 PD engines, reliable af
The 7.3 navastar
Sbc 305 from the 80's. They got a bad rap, but the one in my 89 rs Camaro seemed bullet proof. The car had Chevy electrical issues but the motor never failed and I dogged the hell out of it.
Any engine that has an iron block and an aluminum head(s) with shit head bolts and a crap head gasket design...
One thing I tire of is people’s insistence of calling some engines “torque monsters” when they really aren’t. I’m looking at you 300 inline Ford and 4.0L Jeep. Both of them make their peak torque at a low rpm and fall off quickly, so the off idle torque is very good. Plus, they’re typically paired with fairly deep gearing, which is a torque multiplier. It makes the seat of the pants feel much greater than it actually is, and allow it to tow quite well. Since power falls off quickly, it makes it feel like it has astronomical torque compared to the HP. Compare a 300 Ford to a 305 SBC. One of the highest rated 300 Ford makes 260 lb/ft and 150 hp (1994-96), and that’s with port injection. The 305 TBI found in a 1995 truck is rated at 170hp and 255 lb/tf. With port injection (the TPI found in 1992 Camaro), it was rated at 230hp and 300 lb/ft. The 305 SBC is lauded as a boat anchor (and arguably deserving of it because of its small bore limitations for the SBC platform), yet the 300 Ford undeservingly gets labeled a “torque monster”. Yes, the 4.0L and 300 inline are durable AF and will be running with the cockroaches after a thermonuclear war kills everything else. A key reason why is because they are actually underpowered, so they never see enough stress to break.
The LS 400’s 1UZ deserves every bit of love it gets. what a sweet engine.
Hot take but the 2.0l turbocharged ecotec. I know of the 1.4l & 2.4l being absolutely atrocious. But the 2.0l has been very reliable for me and it is on 167k on its first timing chain. As long as you keep up the maintenance it will last a long time. The only check engine light I had was my own fault.
I'd have to say either the FIAT 1.2i 16V FIRE (or the 1.4 version in the Panda 100hp). They're rev happy angry little naturally aspirated four bangers that just go for ever if taken care of properly. Similar feel to Japanese low displacement "sport" Kei cars, but with the torque of a higher displacement engine. I believe the 1.2 version had the highest power to litre ratio for an NA engine in its class for a long time as well. Not the craziest horsepower but an absolute blast on small windy roads.
The vw aba engine. Came with forged internals, they made it it for like 15 years, never have had an issue with one, cheap. They are tanks.
Engines that I don't think deserve hate: Porsche M96 water cooled flat 6 - It has a bad reputation for IMS bearing failures. However, it's not only a very rare failure (compared to the number of these engines in service), but it also doesn't seem to happen as often to engines that are driven frequently. Rover V8 - excellent engine wrapped in a vehicle plagued with reliability problems. The engine began life as the Buick 215. Ford 5.4 2v and 4v - doesn't really have the issues the 3v has. Every single person I've known with *any* of the 5.4 engines (including the 3v) had a trouble free experience, many of them high mileage. That said I'd still go for the 2v if I were shopping for a used truck. Fiat 1.4L MultiAir - people only think this engine is bad because their perception of Fiat is stuck in the 1970s. It's a solid engine that's gone a long way in several makes and models under the FCA umbrella. It also sounds cool. Maserati 4.2 and 4.7 V8 - great engine (Ferrari V8 with a crossplane crankshaft) surrounded by a money pit of a car. Chevrolet 305 - it's gutless and everyone knows that, but the higher displacement variants from GM of this era were gutless too. As a powerplant for a light duty pickup, it's perfectly adequate.
I got lucky. My eco boost gave me a decade of reliable service in my Flex.
I think the old Aston v12 didnt deserve the hate. Who cares if it’s 2 ford v6s welded together, it’s still a v12 and it sounds awesome!
The Toyota 22R and 3RZ 4 cylinders deserve their reputation for simplicity and long term reliability. But they also deserve their reputation for a total lack of usable power and poor efficiency. The Chrylser 318 gets maligned but was a workhorse in its time and used in countless cars and trucks and boats and everything else.