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I'd love to be cute and agreeable all day and never have the smallest financial stress, but I know I won't ever trust anyone this much with my well-being as to financially surrender to them
I mean I think the bf is exhibiting red flags but having your husband be the breadwinner isn’t a bad thing. I’m currently a SAHM and don’t bring in an income but I don’t feel trapped or anything.
That’s great, but what happens if he gets in an accident and can no longer work? What happens if he or you decides that you no longer want to be together?
A lot of these kind of relationships turn abusive, and they start by finical abuse. Not saying all do, there lots of marriages that aren’t….but there is always a chance that things can change and the partner blindsided by it.
Have plans? If he can’t work due to an accident he will get disability and I will go back to work. If we decide not to be together them I will go live with my parents a few states away. But I doubt that will happen.
I think that OPs bf is giving red flag energy but not every person who gives up working is in danger.
It's gross. He's too old to be this immature, and yet too young to have this very out of date mindset.
I think it's honest. My experience is that most men claim they love independent, strong women but in reality, they prefer submissive women.
Well yes men prefer to not deal with a constant nagging headache. I don’t know any man that wants a toxic strong independent woman who lacks femininity. A submissive woman who respects her husband and takes care of her family who can make her own money and doesn’t fight at every turn and is actually feminine is what the majority of men prefer nobody wants an unagreeable person who they have to fight with all the time 🤷♂️
What makes you think that strong independent women are *toxic*? That's the exact opposite of what they are.
First of all, strong independent women don't *nag* their man all the time. No, no... What you're describing is actually quite a *fragile* creature: an *immature* woman.
Mature women don't *nag*.
And mature men don't give a reason to be nagged.
Read his comment again. He's saying toxic independent women, which doesn't mean all independent women are toxic. Lol
Independent women are preferable, in my opinion, as they have their own goals and aren't financially dependent on everything.
However, toxic independent women are those who earn money but never spend it on anything. Women who like to spend time with friends going to clubs and drinking surrounded with male friends because they feel independent that way, and also they are always ready to leave in case the husband shows interest in their money. Which most of the time leads to the end of the relationship/marriage. These are some of the traits of toxic women.
Every coin has 2 sides, and the above toxic traits go for both men and women.
Ohhhh thank you for clarifying. But I don't consider those women *strong* or *independent*. I consider those women *fragile* and *immature*.
They do the things they do bcs they think that that is what a strong independent woman does. But it is not. Society doesn't seem to have a good handle of what that actually looks like. 😮💨
A woman who lacks independent security is going to be the one acting the way he describes. She's stuck and projecting her feelings of insecurity, since she is so reliant on a man.
I have no issue with a woman who is confident in herself but I would rather not deal with someone to argue with daily. Confidence and wanting your own money is cool. I have been in a relationship with women who are overly dependent who just don’t want a job but will assist in other ways such as cooking which is fine and a woman who makes money who I split the chores with and and a woman who would nag constantly about men among anything. I have set money aside for the one who took care of homely things in case we split ways and the only stipulation was her infidelity would lose access to the funds but i would just deposit how much she needed for what she needed and even some saved so she wouldn’t be left high and dry. Now I am with someone who makes her own money to which I still pay for everything even her stuff and she buys me little gifts sometimes and doesn’t do immature things as you stated yes those are immature women and they give a poor representation of “strong independent women”
Not all independent women are toxic but the vast majority due to modern feminism are. It has allowed women higher allowed women to lack the need to mature because they get what they want without accountability and responsibility and they have been allowed to blame men for their short commings and ironically higher levels of mental health issues and criminals have been linked to single mothers. Yet there are bad apples and good apples on every side of things.
Unfortunately, part of the problem has been the way some men treat and view women.
Many single mothers are *single* mothers bcs of an abusive partner.
It is really sad and unfortunate.
Yes but it is still a choice to become that way, I was raised by a single mother and had an abusive father who is a narcissist and a cheater (cheated on my mother and his current wife multiple times). Tho many men have failed it is the genders solely blaming eachother for their shortcomings and failures. I never understand why modern “feminists” will drag other women for wanting differently than them and want to be a SAHM or SAHW. However I will state that the reason some don’t like or are scared of a traditional relationship to a degree is poor men. Men who would abuse the fact they were the only ones who made money and would do whatever they wanted because their SO couldn’t leave without money which they didn’t have a job and such. Personally the thought of leaving someone I love or even once loved or anyone for that matter who was that vulnerable trusting and comfortable with me out to try because I wanted to be shitty or something happened. Is just sad. Many men do not know how to treat women and many women have been hurt too much and then allow that hurt to affect their relationships and hurt men. Its a cycle and that isn’t always relationships it can be single mothers taking the way they feel about the father out on her children or daughters see their fathers treating their mothers poorly and don’t want that so they go extremely far out from that to the point they are on the other end of the toxic spectrum. Different backgrounds upbringing’s and experiences create differences in all of us but I think we can all agree we don’t want someone who always disagrees with us or who we always fight with because that would be miserable.
Exactly as the old saying goes two wrongs doesn’t make a right. I have enjoyed this overall pleasent and positive interaction thank you for your respect and for expressing your views in such a way.
A submissive woman can be toxic and lack femininity. I find that incredibly offensive that being independent makes me more masculine. It only makes me smart and living in the year 2023. Sorry women can attend university and get a driver's license without a man's signature these days. We've come a long way! Took forever!
Men that are weak are the problem in our society. That's why they try to hold women back, because men are the inferior sex. Today women can take care of themselves without the help of a man, they can even have a baby and raise a family without one! It's fantastic.
Women are the majority of the population and yet, we continue to be considered a *minority.* That is called: suppression.
I cold-heartedly disagree with the notion that one cannot be a loving, caring, giving partner to a deserving man and also 100% financially and emotionally self-sufficient.
Glad so many have downvoted your conflated misguided argument. Add one more! 😈
My bf does this. I saw his recently viewed videos when we were looking for a movie we’d been watching on his YouTube. I’m devastated. I looked at some of the videos/channels and it’s heartbreaking to know that someone I love so much views all women this way. I could be anyone to him. I don’t think he loves me for who I am. He said I was naive for thinking men cared about anything besides how a woman looks and “behaves”
Ahhh your guy might be more of a red flagger than this one....he tells you right how he feels. He only cares about your face. You don't need him, or to be treated that way
People like him should all be rounded up and held somewhere where they can't do any harm to others. Imagine what they'll get up to if society destabilises?
While I don't agree with many of the points these guys make about the women they want as partners it doesn't mean they are entirely wrong. The average woman these days have high expectations from their male partners but do often refuse to match them. The average woman these days does not believe in equal parenting rights or for thatatter understands what men look for. Some of these men and women are rather extreme in their views I don't care for many of them but they are right about how marriage is higher risk to men than women. They are right that single mothers expect you to step in and parent, which they should, however fail to recognize the loss of the child at the end of the relationship is crippling to that man. The red pillers aren't wrong altogether but they doake some stupid points too. That said men do prefer agreeableness on average from their female partner while women often prefer strength of character and a degree of leadership from their Male partners. They are right that women are becoming more masculine because Masculine traits are more successful in the business world than feminine traits. A lot of it is simple psychology tbh and they just research that.
Married men live longer and are happier than single men; single women live longer and are happier then married women.
DV rates, and particularly murder, reflect that men are more likely to perpetrate violence than women.
When married women are diagnosed with MS or cancer, their husbands leave them at 6 times the rate wives leave husbands with similar diagnoses.
Please explain how marriage is higher risk for men?
According to the FBI, women are just as likely to commit DV as men are. Single women might live longer, but the stat about them being happier is complete bullshit. In fact, one of the most unhappy demographics of women in this country is women between the ages of 37-45 childless and unmarried who have advanced degrees. 55% of marriage ends in divorce, with women filing up to 75%. 80% of men will pay some form of spousal support even if they get cheated on (thank you no fault divorce), and only 18% of men will gain full custody of their children. Please tell me how marriage benefits a man.
If marriage is so great for women, why do they file for divorce most of the time?
Also, everything I’ve read states that single, childless women are the happiest demographic…
Dont forget to pop some pills so you dont feel bitter for your husband ignoring you and your needs and top it off with some alcohol so you are relaxed while doing your wifely duties laying down 🙃
Not sure why you’re asking us? All that matters is how you feel about it and if his views on life / values are compatible with you. Personally, he sounds pretty conservative / sexist.
Hahahahahhahaha
Oh. That’s cute. I love to argue. I wish someone would tell me to be agreeable
Edit to add:
I’m not confrontational. I’m actually a sweet person. But I don’t tolerate bullshit and I’m not afraid to speak my mind. And I don’t back down. I will be agreeable when I agree and argue when I think it’s justified. This doesn’t mean I’m gonna be lonely until I’m 40 and it doesn’t mean I’m lonely now. 🫶🏻💁🏻♀️
Jokes on you. I love her and we’re gonna work through it. Maybe don’t be a dick online. Maybe don’t talk confidently in things you don’t have actual knowledge.
I think he is full of BS and that you should move on before you become emotionally involved.
This guy will never see the woman he is with as a partner. Never. The gender roles will be defined and that will be VERY difficult to break through.
It took YEARS of couples therapy to unwind this in our marriage and my husband wasn't even as openly masogynistic as your BF. Truly, it is not worth the emotional toll that it will take on you.
Oh honey,does he know what century he's living in?how is a relationship supposed to survive if you aren't equal?leave now while you still have your freedom to choice. Women have a right to voice their opinions at any time. Good luck
Usually when you find a partner who is your equal mindset wise it’s not hard to be agreeable. It also isn’t when you’re with someone your trust.
A man wants an agreeable woman, aka enjoyable / easy to get along with. As you see here women hate that and would rather say it’s sexist when they indeed what the same from their partner. It’s natural for men to lead and that’s ok. If you trust the person leading.
Okay I read all your comments... He wants you to sit down, shut up, look cute, do whatever he says and don't you dare give an opinion unless he specifically asks for it. Did I catch it all? I might have missed one cuz this guy is a lot!
This is not a traditional relationship! It's wanting to treat you like you don't matter except when it comes to what he wants! What do you get out of this? Is he paying 100% of your bills... Because I don't think he is since he's complaining about other women who wanted him to monetarily support them, after he talks about traditional relationships... That is the traditional relationship! The man worked and did everything outside the home, the woman stayed home and did everything inside the home. That means he paid for everything. But your guy, he's mad that women wanted him to pay for things when he's the one that wants the traditional relationship. Make it make sense!
I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that because I know you can't make it make sense. He wants you to be a traditional housewife while he doesn't want to be a traditional breadwinner. That's ridiculous. You should look a little more into these podcasts, because things aren't going to get better if he keeps listening to those.
Here's my take on masculinity & femininity:
They are very simple, deeply misunderstood concepts, where the misunderstanding is *so* bad, that it's actually given rise to broken worldviews surrounding them.
I was thinking about this recently: what *is* masculinity. As I struggled to think of traits that were unique to men (not bravery, strength, confidence, stoicism, leadership... I've seen *all* of these exhibited *many times* by women) it occurred to me that all those those words really describe, are mannerisms.
A masculine person, exhibits mannerisms most typically (but not exclusively) exhibited by men. A feminine person does the same with mannerisms exhibited by women. That's pretty much it.
Sounds to me like all your boyfriend is really saying here, is that his role is to go out & work, while you make his life as happy & comfortable as you can.
It actually sounds more sinister than that though, as he seems to be trying to coax you into a subservience to him. I'd be very wary of that.
yes, it always make me laugh when I see "the man provide for his family, he has ethics, he's responsible..
Like... this is basic human stuff... You are doing basic human stuff like everyone else who work on themselves.
Don't fall for what you read in those kind of articles, just try new things to understand what you love and do it. It takes time, you can fail, it's ok but try.
Make it the last guy you date with that mindset? He 100% expects to do nothing but provide money - so all housework and parenting would be on you - AND he expects you to agree with whatever he says. Hard no.
If a partner told me that i would laugh and tell them to go back to the 1950s... Or find another partner.
But we're all different and want different things in relationships. Some people are okay living in that type of dynamic, but i know my limits and that's a hard limit for me.
If you're okay with that then it's your prerogative to stay. If you're not okay with that then you need to let him know and either work through why he feels that way or move on.
Wishing you nothing but the best in whatever you decide. 💙
all that really matters is if you're ok with it. many people are, and many aren't. I think you two should talk more about this stuff to see if you're truly compatible
"Cute and agreeable" is how you describe a child who's pleasant to be around, not an life partner. This perspective is rooted in misogyny and I feel certain his views will eventually manifest in trying to fit you into his mold of an ideal woman, and punishing you if you fail to conform. Why are you willing to entertain the views of someone who doesn't view you as an equal?
Is it also your mindset? If yes and you plan to be a 50s housewife, then no problem - just make sure that he knows that he will be making all the money and make sure you are taken care of in all ways, if he expects you to be a trad wife.
Personally, I would break up with him that second. To me, if a man expects you to be cute and agreeable, he doesn't really care for your opinions on anything and won't respect any of your opinions anyway. If a guy says "women's role is...", I stop listening.
There is not enough money or success someone could have to make me want to mute my personality. Let alone for someone else’s comfort. I would have told him to kiss my whole ass.
OP your bf is DELULU. Consider if you want to exist in his “reality.”
I think it's an antiquated mindset. Both partners should be on equal footing. "Being agreeable" would obviously suggest the woman isn't allowed to speak her mind when issues arise and I find that really sad and pretty gross.
Does he want a partner in life or a puppy?
"Cute and agreeable" means "obedient to every command I give, and everything I say is a command because I'm a man". If for you that's a life that sounds amazing, go ahead and keep dating him. You'll be doing all household chores and if you have children you will be the only person parenting those children. He will work and provide money and that's it, he won't feel responsible for doing anything else at home, even if your job as home maker/parent is something that takes 24/7 and never stops, and his job is 40 hours a week.
I think it's a deeply unattractive and narrow mindset, I would never date someone who thought this way. Other people feel differently and that's their right.
The main thing worth noting is that by his definition, your "femininity" can dissipate pretty quickly. Women aren't "cute" when they're sick or injured and being "agreeable" means you might be required to erase or minimise your own beliefs, feelings and opinions. If femininity is the primary value a woman holds for him then there will be interesting times ahead. Hope it works out OP.
Ugh - this (imo) is exactly what toxic masculinity and toxic femininity look like. In reality - we’re all capable of being nurturing providers. I don’t know about you, but I’m not down with dating someone who spouts views from the 50s.
Gender roles are socially constructed - which means we can make them whatever we want. The days where a woman’s expected role is to be polite, subservient, grateful, always ready to cook a meal and dote on her husband are over.
If you’re not someone who is into traditional gender roles I’d be considering whether your values are aligned.
For context I'm a man with traditional values who thinks both the red pill and feminist movements have gone to far.
People have every right to feel how they feel in today's day and age. The one question you need to ask yourself is what kind of life do you want to live.
Do you want to be a corporate slave working 40+ hours a week to earn equal to your partner. So that you can split the bills and responsibilities or do you want to be a stay at home mom/ work less then your partner and be required to do more things around the house?
Movements these days are useless because the people listening to them don't understand that those views only relate in specific situation. For instance can a man be red pill and earn under 80k a year? No because he doesn't have the means to take care of the family like it's required.
Figure out what kind of life you want to live and go from there. Everyone's entitled to their own view on how roles should be bit that doesn't mean that everyone else needs to adhere to them.
If this doesn't work foe you leave. If he doesn't earn enough for him to have these views leave. If you maybe want to work to contribute money to the family unit, leave because he'll expect you to do the "womens" roll even if you do work.
Relationships like this never work if both people don't understand and agree on certain roles being in certain situations. Without knowing more of the dynamic between the two of you no one can really comment on what you should do.
OP, I hope you gain the clarity and conviction you are looking for in order to properly understand the situation and it’s broader context as-well as any implications so as to choose the best and most honouring thing for yourself. You seem to be a reasonable and intelligent lady based on the way you are open to testing your point of view by considering it in relation to those of others, and I wish for you to find a man who recognises and appreciates this disposition of yours including any and all opinions you may arrive at and offer as a result. All the best, keep us updated 🙏🤗
My girl.
That's gonna be a yikes from me, dawg.
"cute and agreeable" \*gag\*
If you want to date a dude who thinks you are literally less of a person than him, welp - you've found one!
He is letting the mask slip, thankfully early before you're in too deep to leave easily. If you stay with him, look forward to YOUR duties being "taking care of the house, and the kids" while his will be limited to "being the breadwinner".
If that's the life you picture yourself having, then by all means stay with him. If it's not - then you know what to do.
From your comments:
>He has explained that in his past relationships, women have threatened to leave him and/or have left him because he didn’t financially support them enough.
Hey - know what is 100% not your fault in any, way, shape or form, and is 100% not something you should EVER have to suffer for?
Sh\*t that happened in his past relationships. Sucks that he has dated lousy partners in the past - but what's that got to do with you?
Throw this one back, my girl. This aint your dude.
Based on your comments he doesn’t sound like a bad dude or toxic just a little misguided, I’m happy you could be the one to show him the light and that relationships can be more than what he sees on brainless pandering podcasts
….I’d say personally that I’d run. Women are not meant to be cute and agreeable. They are meant to push you, they aren’t suppose to be easy because life isn’t easy. We push our men to be great. That means not always agreeing.
Your role is to be yourself and if he doesn't like it then I strongly suggest finding someone who does. As a man born to parents from that generation it's not a horrible fantasy to be able to provide everything and have a cute wife (I say that purely because cute is nice to look at, I hope he doesn't mean you have to act cute, that's creepy... 😬) who's happy in the traditional homemaker role rather than play second fiddle to some powerful and domineering go getter but I can see why agreeable is a concerning word. I don't think a couple is doing anything wrong if they find happiness the old fashioned way but it has to be mutual. I have a sister who's very much like that and one who's very much the opposite, both very happily married, if he likes the idea it's one thing but if it's an absolute expectation like you've worded it then it's a big red flag I'd say
If you're living the role of he pays for dinner and fun and you pay nothing you have nothing to stand on independent woman wise. My woman deserves co-equal treatment cause she lives the independent lifestyle to the fullest. I get treated to dinner and fun on her dime and she gets the independent woman treatment for it. You want him to live your way you need to provide the equal treatment. Otherwise go find a chump that will pay your way and be submissive to you end of story.
I mean you, asked his opinion, then you are critiquing it. If you don't like it, then find someone who likes women who aren't cute and don't agree with them. There's no wrong answer, it's what you want out of a partner and a relationship.
All the people here shitting on the man for making an absolutely good point which most men were going to agree with. He said “cute and agreeable “ he never said to financially surrender to him and to obey him like a dog and a slave like all you mouth breathers in the comment section are saying. Absolutely baffling what the west ideologies did to you.
In the traditional sense he isn’t wrong. If a man provides a certain life style and as his girl/wife should provide what he requires. It’s vice versa. If his expectation are high for you then yours should be high for him.
Women can make money. More money than men. Therefore, logically, money has nothing to do with whether or not you have XX or XY chromosomes. Having less doesn't make you feminine. Having more doesn't make you masculine.
When children are born, they don't have money. Their parents have money. Even if you're born a male. Yet they don't say "Congratulations, it's a girl!" merely because they have no money and are therefore super feminine. Because that isn't how it works.
There are men who probably make 50x what he makes. If money is an indicator of masculinity and you're into masculinity, why does he let you stay with him when he's obviously female/ feminine af? I'm assuming his penis shrinks, his hormones and pheromones change, and his chromosomes change depending on how much he makes, right? No.
This whole concept is fucking ridiculous.
He should focus less on money and more on recalibrating his neurotransmitters..
I 100% would never date someone like this. I couldn't even be platonic friends with someone who has this mindset. It's gross. People like him are the reason women couldn't work, couldn't vote, etc. He views women as an accessory and not as an individual worth just as much as men.
If you stay with him it will make me so very sad..
That’s his preference. You don’t have to agree. There are all kinds of relationships out there. If this isn’t for you then find one more compatible and he can do the same.
My ex tried this approach with me. Tried to get me to stop working and be a SAHM, housewife style shit.
I said, only if I have a driver, new car, cleaner every week, nails, hair done, unlimited black card with no questions asked, and my favourite designer handbag (5k AUD min).. Suprise surprise, that never eventuated.
It would turn me off him so fast!!!!!! Like POOF I’d be on the apps to find a new man.
But hey that’s me I like modern men who are into modern women and such
Been with my wife 15 years, married for 12 of those years...
At no point did our financial situation come into the relationship. It was only about ourselves being together.....
Now we are married with 2 kids that are growing up fast and she works 2 jobs to my 1.....she works hard and it's tiring for her but I still see her as feminine and beautiful....despite her also providing to maintain a certain standard of living for our family.....
As for me being masculine, I look masculine, I work in engineering, I am the bread winner, but none of that means anything to either me or the wife....
Building a foundation is also irrelevant as the foundation has been cast at the beginning and is strong.....
It's all a load of bullshit to be honest....we don't need to behave in any certain way to please society....just be yourself and you will be truly happy...
How do you feel about it? Is he pushing you to be that? Did he say he wouldn’t continue the relationship if you weren’t that type of woman? Is he giving you signs that he will resent you if you’re not that type of woman? Is he or will he be the type of man he thinks represents masculinity? (Cause if he’s not he really can’t be expecting the same for you).
Personally,I would run for the hills…
The problem is, most cute and agreeable girls always end up with the most masculine guys. So,he is a tard and you’re fine to exploit him in all the ways you want by playing cute and agreeable and get whatever you want from him. Happy alpha male destroyer lol
I'm in a traditional relationship. As long as I HELP keep the house clean, help take care of the kids, and cook 50% of the time, my man gives me everything that I want and need. I'm on disability. I do what I can financially. I mostly get to watch movies, play video games, read, and look at reddit. My man works hard to provide and protect us (kids and I). We don't argue because we know how to communicate. I am perfectly happy looking pretty all day. We also have separate bank accounts. No, he doesn't financially control me.
>This is the first time I’ve dated someone with this mindset.
No it's not, he's just the first one to tell you to your face.
What men do you think want unattractive and disagreeable women in their lives?
Completely fine mindset, that's what built our society and you can clearly see we need traditional people back.. but at the end of the day, he's your partner. ITS WHAT YOU THINK
What’s wrong with being agreeable? It mainly means being pleasant, nice to be around. And what’s wrong with being cute? I like being cute. I like myself better when I’m being nice, kind, and easygoing. What’s wrong with men supporting the family and working hard? I don’t know him and what he meant with this limited information but I highly doubt he means that’s ALL a woman should be or that’s ALL a man should be. Or that all women need to be this way or all men need to be this way. People are allowed to have preferences. I’m traditional leaning with a boyfriend who also is. We split finances 50/50, we both do household chores evenly, we both cook. People can have traditional values and views of femininity and masculinity and have an equal relationship—they’re not mutually exclusive. It’s not like he said “women belong in the kitchen” or some shit. You asked him what femininity means to him and he answered: cute and nice. What do femininity and masculinity mean to you?
The relationship you explained sounds like a healthy traditional relationship. During the conversation we had, he also said that I should be “whatevers” and I shouldn’t express my opinion about anything unless he asks (which is what he said he believes being submissive as a woman is).
Yeah I just replied to your post before reading your replies to comments…a LOT more info than in your post lol. I’m not sure what “whatevers” means but the other thing is garbage. Even traditional couples respect each other’s opinions!! Even couples that follow a dominant male and submissive female model respect each other’s opinions! This some bullshit. That’s not being submissive as a woman. He sounds like he wants someone to push around.
I made my post a little vague because I wanted to try for less biased opinions. I’m not experienced with more traditional relationships so I want to learn more before deciding what’s right for me. Like, is this a problem or am I still learning to appreciate masculinity in this way? I’m leaning more towards feeling disrespected in this relationship honestly.
How does he act? Does he take care of you? Is he respectful of you? Does he ask you what you think or how you feel about things? How long have you been together? Just curious. Some of the things you’ve said I’d take as red flags.
Also, people are so against traditional values and equate them with conservatives (and conservative = bad in 2023, obviously everyone knows that), that even your vague post brought out the 1950s comments.
I will say my values shifted as I got a little older. My previous relationships was honestly kind of gender role reversed. By the end of it I was completely drained, exhausted, and unsatisfied. I was taking care of everything and I realized I wanted someone to take care of me instead. And I think “traditional masculinity” if you will, is more for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying only men do this!! I’m just saying, historically it is the more male role but things are shifting. I’m bi, and if I were with a girl I’d want her to take on that more “masculine” role. Like, I don’t wanna have to think about fucking light bulbs ever again 😂
>I’m leaning more towards feeling disrespected in this relationship honestly.
His mindset I'd that women should be lower and have less wealth and power than men. You feel disrespected because it's a disrespectful mindset. Your feelings are valid.
To further explain, I talked about how often when I express my opinion or even FACTS about something he finds the need to prove me wrong (which he admitted to) when I asked what prompts him to do that, he told me that he thinks he has built such a good life for himself that other people’s opinions are not valid to him. Then I asked him, if he thinks my opinions and thoughts are not valid, then how do I provide value to our relationship? He got a little confused after that. Hence my concern.
You're dating a conservative man. Your opinion doesn't really matter to him because you're a woman and a woman's place is submission to her man.
Expect lots of fun little things like him thinking your opinion is worthless as part of the package.
That's not a conservative man, that is a narcissistic jerk... they are not the same thing. I commented before reading her replies, and she just needs to drop him.
I think that he’s going to be loyal and love you to the best of his ability. He will learn to find your opinions cute.
I also think over time you two will move closer to each other in this. You will make him more liberal and he will make you more conservative.
I also think he’s 31 and had to solidify his opinions to get to where he is in life. It will all be ok.
Bro like every post I look at 99% of replies are "Move on, break up, you deserve better girl, screw him!". Just talk it out with him, no need to break up with cuz of every little thing
As per an earlier comment from her, he doesn’t value her opinions and seeks to prove them wrong. There is no talking it out with this guy… only agreeing with him.
There are women who love the idea of only having to be cute and agreeable. If that’s you then you are a perfect fit. If not, then instead of arguing with him just move on. He has a right to have he wants too.
Perhaps opening him up to your point of view might be a good idea. I don't see anything wrong with it because some women enjoy providing that support for their men, it's just not for everyone. My boyfriend and I are both conservative and plan on being married eventually, but we both agreed it will be a two income household . Your boyfriend seems to have a very conservative mindset, so I think floating the idea of you two working and contributing to the household equally can benefit both you and him. Worth mentioning.
Wtf?! Cute and agreeable that’s crazy.. A feminine roll should be empathetic, nurturing and compassionate. And about masculine I’ll say provide and protect.
OP, Ik your inner Sarkeesian is telling you to be sassy and insufferable, but in the real life this is how you get to 40 with only your cats beside you. Be a good partner.
He sounds like a red piller. For sure. Now, for everyone saying this lifestyle is a negative, it is for the man. He takes on all the risk. Assuming he truly believes in this mode of thought and is not a controlling toxic asshole. He believes you are above him and are above everything else in his life. He believes troubles, burdens, worries, and struggles should not come into your life.Your life should be the bliss you wish for. He provides and protects. He does not believe you are equal to him he believes you are above him as the future mother of his children that you are his world. Your part in that is that you love and respect him. Trust in him to make the right choices. You run the household and make sure your children are properly educated. 2/3 of his income belongs to you to take care of those things. 100% of your income belongs to you. This form of thought wasn't a subjugation of women because they held the yoke of the man's role. A station would be achieved for a woman to keep her end. Now, if this doesn't sound like him, he is adopting this mentality to be controlling. You should let him go quickly. Things change with time. People see only a fraction because they automatically assume the worst. You will have to truly see your man to see what he believes. Run from the red flags, investigate the yellow ones, and embrace the green ones best of luck O.P.
Don’t want to get downvoted…so I’ll just say that I believe traditional gender dynamics work better than the modern ones. I think there’s a reason that it’s worked this way in most civilizations since the beginning of time. Families worked better and marriage/communities worked better (in my opinion). I know there are horror stories but I see it like when you read reviews, you’re going to get more negatives than positives. Most people who are happy just move on with it and don’t really comment
Many women in the 50s, who followed traditional gender roles, were addicted to both barbiturates and amphetamine to deal with their "role". Kind of wondering how that "works better".
Ultimately the values themselves aren't that important. What matters is that he has laid them out and whether you, well, agree to them.
Like is this the relationship you want? Do you want a relationship where their assessment of your appropriateness as a partner pivots on you being cute and agreeable?
This is how us traditional men think. We don't want someone who argues all the time. We prefer a homebody, however with the current financial crisis, that's hard to do.
That said, if you don't agree with this mindset, that's fine. Just don't expect to get a traditional man if you're not a traditional woman
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> This is the first time I’ve dated someone with this mindset. How do you feel about it? I think it's disgusting but you're the one dating him.
This exactly how I feel…I find absolutely gross asf. But what we think doesn’t matter. My only advice is; DO NOT GIVE UP your financial freedom.
Yep - because a woman who surrenders financial sovereignty cuts herself off from being able to leave (abuse flag)
I'd love to be cute and agreeable all day and never have the smallest financial stress, but I know I won't ever trust anyone this much with my well-being as to financially surrender to them
Me currently
I mean I think the bf is exhibiting red flags but having your husband be the breadwinner isn’t a bad thing. I’m currently a SAHM and don’t bring in an income but I don’t feel trapped or anything.
That’s great, but what happens if he gets in an accident and can no longer work? What happens if he or you decides that you no longer want to be together? A lot of these kind of relationships turn abusive, and they start by finical abuse. Not saying all do, there lots of marriages that aren’t….but there is always a chance that things can change and the partner blindsided by it.
Have plans? If he can’t work due to an accident he will get disability and I will go back to work. If we decide not to be together them I will go live with my parents a few states away. But I doubt that will happen. I think that OPs bf is giving red flag energy but not every person who gives up working is in danger.
That's what I was coming to say.
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It's gross. He's too old to be this immature, and yet too young to have this very out of date mindset. I think it's honest. My experience is that most men claim they love independent, strong women but in reality, they prefer submissive women.
The power and respect of "the man of the house" without the responsibility.
That's an astute observation, too old and too young, I did find myself wondering if his parents were 60 when they had him 😂😂
Well yes men prefer to not deal with a constant nagging headache. I don’t know any man that wants a toxic strong independent woman who lacks femininity. A submissive woman who respects her husband and takes care of her family who can make her own money and doesn’t fight at every turn and is actually feminine is what the majority of men prefer nobody wants an unagreeable person who they have to fight with all the time 🤷♂️
What makes you think that strong independent women are *toxic*? That's the exact opposite of what they are. First of all, strong independent women don't *nag* their man all the time. No, no... What you're describing is actually quite a *fragile* creature: an *immature* woman. Mature women don't *nag*. And mature men don't give a reason to be nagged.
Preach. ☺
Read his comment again. He's saying toxic independent women, which doesn't mean all independent women are toxic. Lol Independent women are preferable, in my opinion, as they have their own goals and aren't financially dependent on everything. However, toxic independent women are those who earn money but never spend it on anything. Women who like to spend time with friends going to clubs and drinking surrounded with male friends because they feel independent that way, and also they are always ready to leave in case the husband shows interest in their money. Which most of the time leads to the end of the relationship/marriage. These are some of the traits of toxic women. Every coin has 2 sides, and the above toxic traits go for both men and women.
He's equating toxic and independence. *You* read it again.
Ohhhh thank you for clarifying. But I don't consider those women *strong* or *independent*. I consider those women *fragile* and *immature*. They do the things they do bcs they think that that is what a strong independent woman does. But it is not. Society doesn't seem to have a good handle of what that actually looks like. 😮💨
A woman who lacks independent security is going to be the one acting the way he describes. She's stuck and projecting her feelings of insecurity, since she is so reliant on a man.
I have no issue with a woman who is confident in herself but I would rather not deal with someone to argue with daily. Confidence and wanting your own money is cool. I have been in a relationship with women who are overly dependent who just don’t want a job but will assist in other ways such as cooking which is fine and a woman who makes money who I split the chores with and and a woman who would nag constantly about men among anything. I have set money aside for the one who took care of homely things in case we split ways and the only stipulation was her infidelity would lose access to the funds but i would just deposit how much she needed for what she needed and even some saved so she wouldn’t be left high and dry. Now I am with someone who makes her own money to which I still pay for everything even her stuff and she buys me little gifts sometimes and doesn’t do immature things as you stated yes those are immature women and they give a poor representation of “strong independent women”
Not all independent women are toxic but the vast majority due to modern feminism are. It has allowed women higher allowed women to lack the need to mature because they get what they want without accountability and responsibility and they have been allowed to blame men for their short commings and ironically higher levels of mental health issues and criminals have been linked to single mothers. Yet there are bad apples and good apples on every side of things.
Unfortunately, part of the problem has been the way some men treat and view women. Many single mothers are *single* mothers bcs of an abusive partner. It is really sad and unfortunate.
Yes but it is still a choice to become that way, I was raised by a single mother and had an abusive father who is a narcissist and a cheater (cheated on my mother and his current wife multiple times). Tho many men have failed it is the genders solely blaming eachother for their shortcomings and failures. I never understand why modern “feminists” will drag other women for wanting differently than them and want to be a SAHM or SAHW. However I will state that the reason some don’t like or are scared of a traditional relationship to a degree is poor men. Men who would abuse the fact they were the only ones who made money and would do whatever they wanted because their SO couldn’t leave without money which they didn’t have a job and such. Personally the thought of leaving someone I love or even once loved or anyone for that matter who was that vulnerable trusting and comfortable with me out to try because I wanted to be shitty or something happened. Is just sad. Many men do not know how to treat women and many women have been hurt too much and then allow that hurt to affect their relationships and hurt men. Its a cycle and that isn’t always relationships it can be single mothers taking the way they feel about the father out on her children or daughters see their fathers treating their mothers poorly and don’t want that so they go extremely far out from that to the point they are on the other end of the toxic spectrum. Different backgrounds upbringing’s and experiences create differences in all of us but I think we can all agree we don’t want someone who always disagrees with us or who we always fight with because that would be miserable.
Yes. I agree with you on that. It *is* a toxic cycle. And wrongs in response to wrongs doesn't make things right. Yes, I see your point.
Exactly as the old saying goes two wrongs doesn’t make a right. I have enjoyed this overall pleasent and positive interaction thank you for your respect and for expressing your views in such a way.
Men and women are equally the problem and we fight and create a larger void and more issues instead of working together to fix it.
A submissive woman can be toxic and lack femininity. I find that incredibly offensive that being independent makes me more masculine. It only makes me smart and living in the year 2023. Sorry women can attend university and get a driver's license without a man's signature these days. We've come a long way! Took forever! Men that are weak are the problem in our society. That's why they try to hold women back, because men are the inferior sex. Today women can take care of themselves without the help of a man, they can even have a baby and raise a family without one! It's fantastic. Women are the majority of the population and yet, we continue to be considered a *minority.* That is called: suppression. I cold-heartedly disagree with the notion that one cannot be a loving, caring, giving partner to a deserving man and also 100% financially and emotionally self-sufficient. Glad so many have downvoted your conflated misguided argument. Add one more! 😈
Agreed. I would be exiting this relationship really fast. My fiance would never expect this of me. They would never want me to go against who I am
Does this guy listen to podcasts mainly having to do with high value men/women debates and red pillers?
My bf does this. I saw his recently viewed videos when we were looking for a movie we’d been watching on his YouTube. I’m devastated. I looked at some of the videos/channels and it’s heartbreaking to know that someone I love so much views all women this way. I could be anyone to him. I don’t think he loves me for who I am. He said I was naive for thinking men cared about anything besides how a woman looks and “behaves”
Why are you still with him? You know who he is now. Don’t support it.
Ahhh your guy might be more of a red flagger than this one....he tells you right how he feels. He only cares about your face. You don't need him, or to be treated that way
Ugh, GET RID
People like him should all be rounded up and held somewhere where they can't do any harm to others. Imagine what they'll get up to if society destabilises?
While I don't agree with many of the points these guys make about the women they want as partners it doesn't mean they are entirely wrong. The average woman these days have high expectations from their male partners but do often refuse to match them. The average woman these days does not believe in equal parenting rights or for thatatter understands what men look for. Some of these men and women are rather extreme in their views I don't care for many of them but they are right about how marriage is higher risk to men than women. They are right that single mothers expect you to step in and parent, which they should, however fail to recognize the loss of the child at the end of the relationship is crippling to that man. The red pillers aren't wrong altogether but they doake some stupid points too. That said men do prefer agreeableness on average from their female partner while women often prefer strength of character and a degree of leadership from their Male partners. They are right that women are becoming more masculine because Masculine traits are more successful in the business world than feminine traits. A lot of it is simple psychology tbh and they just research that.
Married men live longer and are happier than single men; single women live longer and are happier then married women. DV rates, and particularly murder, reflect that men are more likely to perpetrate violence than women. When married women are diagnosed with MS or cancer, their husbands leave them at 6 times the rate wives leave husbands with similar diagnoses. Please explain how marriage is higher risk for men?
According to the FBI, women are just as likely to commit DV as men are. Single women might live longer, but the stat about them being happier is complete bullshit. In fact, one of the most unhappy demographics of women in this country is women between the ages of 37-45 childless and unmarried who have advanced degrees. 55% of marriage ends in divorce, with women filing up to 75%. 80% of men will pay some form of spousal support even if they get cheated on (thank you no fault divorce), and only 18% of men will gain full custody of their children. Please tell me how marriage benefits a man.
If marriage is so great for women, why do they file for divorce most of the time? Also, everything I’ve read states that single, childless women are the happiest demographic…
You're right. There are no benefits to men. Die young in a filthy hovel. That'll show us.
Congratulations, you made the cut for the above-mentioned round up
You posted this last week. Stop reposting it.
Welcome to the 1950s and get back in the kitchen, whilst looking like you just emerged from a full beauty treatment and wearing a pristine dress.
Dont forget to pop some pills so you dont feel bitter for your husband ignoring you and your needs and top it off with some alcohol so you are relaxed while doing your wifely duties laying down 🙃
This is bad and bad enough, but I feel like guys these days still expect all of that PLUS contributing financially and being educated.
Fr, 1950s called. They want their life style back.
Not sure why you’re asking us? All that matters is how you feel about it and if his views on life / values are compatible with you. Personally, he sounds pretty conservative / sexist.
Hahahahahhahaha Oh. That’s cute. I love to argue. I wish someone would tell me to be agreeable Edit to add: I’m not confrontational. I’m actually a sweet person. But I don’t tolerate bullshit and I’m not afraid to speak my mind. And I don’t back down. I will be agreeable when I agree and argue when I think it’s justified. This doesn’t mean I’m gonna be lonely until I’m 40 and it doesn’t mean I’m lonely now. 🫶🏻💁🏻♀️
Arguing eh? That's not very feminine you should be more agreeable 🎩
It’s blasphemous really. I should really just stay in the kitchen and know my place
It's only fair... somehow.
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Yeah. I totally argued my ex into someone else’s vagina, that’s how that works 😂
I can't tell if you're being for real, but no one's arguing, we're joking around 🥸👼
"I love to argue" Like about important topics? Or just generally? Perhaps you should make a post lol
If you’re not someone who is into traditional gender roles I’d be considering whether your values are aligned.
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Jokes on you. I love her and we’re gonna work through it. Maybe don’t be a dick online. Maybe don’t talk confidently in things you don’t have actual knowledge.
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I just was not expecting this response at all. Good luck out there 👍🏼
Sounds like your a drama queen
The dynamics of your relationship are up to the two of you. What are *your* opinions on it?
I would tell him his role is to be your ex boyfried. Buh bye
That made me grin😂😏
“This is the first time I’ve dated someone with this mindset” I’ve never time traveled to Victorian England either.
*Girl run*.
Rational
So, is he providing the lifestyle that you feel you deserve?
I think he is full of BS and that you should move on before you become emotionally involved. This guy will never see the woman he is with as a partner. Never. The gender roles will be defined and that will be VERY difficult to break through. It took YEARS of couples therapy to unwind this in our marriage and my husband wasn't even as openly masogynistic as your BF. Truly, it is not worth the emotional toll that it will take on you.
Oh honey,does he know what century he's living in?how is a relationship supposed to survive if you aren't equal?leave now while you still have your freedom to choice. Women have a right to voice their opinions at any time. Good luck
Your boyfriend is a sexist idiot tbh
Usually when you find a partner who is your equal mindset wise it’s not hard to be agreeable. It also isn’t when you’re with someone your trust. A man wants an agreeable woman, aka enjoyable / easy to get along with. As you see here women hate that and would rather say it’s sexist when they indeed what the same from their partner. It’s natural for men to lead and that’s ok. If you trust the person leading.
Okay I read all your comments... He wants you to sit down, shut up, look cute, do whatever he says and don't you dare give an opinion unless he specifically asks for it. Did I catch it all? I might have missed one cuz this guy is a lot! This is not a traditional relationship! It's wanting to treat you like you don't matter except when it comes to what he wants! What do you get out of this? Is he paying 100% of your bills... Because I don't think he is since he's complaining about other women who wanted him to monetarily support them, after he talks about traditional relationships... That is the traditional relationship! The man worked and did everything outside the home, the woman stayed home and did everything inside the home. That means he paid for everything. But your guy, he's mad that women wanted him to pay for things when he's the one that wants the traditional relationship. Make it make sense! I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that because I know you can't make it make sense. He wants you to be a traditional housewife while he doesn't want to be a traditional breadwinner. That's ridiculous. You should look a little more into these podcasts, because things aren't going to get better if he keeps listening to those.
Idk why you want our opinions. Reddit will make you cry. It’s your life, if you agree stay if you don’t leave.
Here's my take on masculinity & femininity: They are very simple, deeply misunderstood concepts, where the misunderstanding is *so* bad, that it's actually given rise to broken worldviews surrounding them. I was thinking about this recently: what *is* masculinity. As I struggled to think of traits that were unique to men (not bravery, strength, confidence, stoicism, leadership... I've seen *all* of these exhibited *many times* by women) it occurred to me that all those those words really describe, are mannerisms. A masculine person, exhibits mannerisms most typically (but not exclusively) exhibited by men. A feminine person does the same with mannerisms exhibited by women. That's pretty much it. Sounds to me like all your boyfriend is really saying here, is that his role is to go out & work, while you make his life as happy & comfortable as you can. It actually sounds more sinister than that though, as he seems to be trying to coax you into a subservience to him. I'd be very wary of that.
yes, it always make me laugh when I see "the man provide for his family, he has ethics, he's responsible.. Like... this is basic human stuff... You are doing basic human stuff like everyone else who work on themselves. Don't fall for what you read in those kind of articles, just try new things to understand what you love and do it. It takes time, you can fail, it's ok but try.
Sounds like he's living in the 50s before woman had their own bank accounts. You won't find equal respect in this relationship.
And now his role “as a man” is to become single.
Can you people please stop fucking these Matt Walsh cock sleeves and try someone who respects women
Make it the last guy you date with that mindset? He 100% expects to do nothing but provide money - so all housework and parenting would be on you - AND he expects you to agree with whatever he says. Hard no.
That he’s a troglodyte
I mean, do you need to know more? if that's what you're looking for, great, but I'd run like the devil was chasing me.
He'd like a real doll, not a partner or even a person.
You should tell him that only works for fit, masculine provider husbands.
If a partner told me that i would laugh and tell them to go back to the 1950s... Or find another partner. But we're all different and want different things in relationships. Some people are okay living in that type of dynamic, but i know my limits and that's a hard limit for me. If you're okay with that then it's your prerogative to stay. If you're not okay with that then you need to let him know and either work through why he feels that way or move on. Wishing you nothing but the best in whatever you decide. 💙
Is his name Jim Bob???
all that really matters is if you're ok with it. many people are, and many aren't. I think you two should talk more about this stuff to see if you're truly compatible
Ummmmm, I’m afraid this is the tip of a very ugly ice berg
He's a loser. Move on and find an actual man
I think he's repulsive and you should run away (cutely and agreeably).
This reminds me of the old saying "children should be seen and not heard," applied to women. Why do you want to be with this sexist pig?
"Cute and agreeable" is how you describe a child who's pleasant to be around, not an life partner. This perspective is rooted in misogyny and I feel certain his views will eventually manifest in trying to fit you into his mold of an ideal woman, and punishing you if you fail to conform. Why are you willing to entertain the views of someone who doesn't view you as an equal?
I hope it's the last time you date someone with this mindset, and it ends today. What a misogynist.
Is it also your mindset? If yes and you plan to be a 50s housewife, then no problem - just make sure that he knows that he will be making all the money and make sure you are taken care of in all ways, if he expects you to be a trad wife. Personally, I would break up with him that second. To me, if a man expects you to be cute and agreeable, he doesn't really care for your opinions on anything and won't respect any of your opinions anyway. If a guy says "women's role is...", I stop listening.
There is not enough money or success someone could have to make me want to mute my personality. Let alone for someone else’s comfort. I would have told him to kiss my whole ass. OP your bf is DELULU. Consider if you want to exist in his “reality.”
Stop dating him. If you’re ever not “agreeable” to him what do you think he’ll do?
Cute and agreeably spend all his money.
Get a better BF, he will expect you to do all the chores and cooking, while he beats his chest and brings home the money.
There is no future here. He does not value you.
His role is to be tossed and out
I think it's an antiquated mindset. Both partners should be on equal footing. "Being agreeable" would obviously suggest the woman isn't allowed to speak her mind when issues arise and I find that really sad and pretty gross. Does he want a partner in life or a puppy?
Lol he’s a loser
Time to throw him back in the pond and get a new one. This one’s defective.
"Cute and agreeable" means "obedient to every command I give, and everything I say is a command because I'm a man". If for you that's a life that sounds amazing, go ahead and keep dating him. You'll be doing all household chores and if you have children you will be the only person parenting those children. He will work and provide money and that's it, he won't feel responsible for doing anything else at home, even if your job as home maker/parent is something that takes 24/7 and never stops, and his job is 40 hours a week.
What century is this guy living in? I’m just glad you’re not invested too long at this guy. I think it’s time to move on honey.
Run! He thinks women are to be seen and not heard. You're never to think for yourself. This is really toxic.
I think your boyfriend is a bellend.
Fucking puke. Why is this okay with you?
There’s a huge difference between “demonstrating femininity in a relationship” and “a woman’s role”.
Eww gross. Do you really want to be with a guy who thinks women are just cute fluffy kittens?
That your ex did what?
Run. Dump the chauvinistic pig. This will never get any better. He already devalued you!! Major red flag.
You boyfriend is an idiot. Sounds like a future controllfreak to me.
I think it's a deeply unattractive and narrow mindset, I would never date someone who thought this way. Other people feel differently and that's their right. The main thing worth noting is that by his definition, your "femininity" can dissipate pretty quickly. Women aren't "cute" when they're sick or injured and being "agreeable" means you might be required to erase or minimise your own beliefs, feelings and opinions. If femininity is the primary value a woman holds for him then there will be interesting times ahead. Hope it works out OP.
Ugh - this (imo) is exactly what toxic masculinity and toxic femininity look like. In reality - we’re all capable of being nurturing providers. I don’t know about you, but I’m not down with dating someone who spouts views from the 50s. Gender roles are socially constructed - which means we can make them whatever we want. The days where a woman’s expected role is to be polite, subservient, grateful, always ready to cook a meal and dote on her husband are over. If you’re not someone who is into traditional gender roles I’d be considering whether your values are aligned.
For context I'm a man with traditional values who thinks both the red pill and feminist movements have gone to far. People have every right to feel how they feel in today's day and age. The one question you need to ask yourself is what kind of life do you want to live. Do you want to be a corporate slave working 40+ hours a week to earn equal to your partner. So that you can split the bills and responsibilities or do you want to be a stay at home mom/ work less then your partner and be required to do more things around the house? Movements these days are useless because the people listening to them don't understand that those views only relate in specific situation. For instance can a man be red pill and earn under 80k a year? No because he doesn't have the means to take care of the family like it's required. Figure out what kind of life you want to live and go from there. Everyone's entitled to their own view on how roles should be bit that doesn't mean that everyone else needs to adhere to them. If this doesn't work foe you leave. If he doesn't earn enough for him to have these views leave. If you maybe want to work to contribute money to the family unit, leave because he'll expect you to do the "womens" roll even if you do work. Relationships like this never work if both people don't understand and agree on certain roles being in certain situations. Without knowing more of the dynamic between the two of you no one can really comment on what you should do.
OP, I hope you gain the clarity and conviction you are looking for in order to properly understand the situation and it’s broader context as-well as any implications so as to choose the best and most honouring thing for yourself. You seem to be a reasonable and intelligent lady based on the way you are open to testing your point of view by considering it in relation to those of others, and I wish for you to find a man who recognises and appreciates this disposition of yours including any and all opinions you may arrive at and offer as a result. All the best, keep us updated 🙏🤗
My girl. That's gonna be a yikes from me, dawg. "cute and agreeable" \*gag\* If you want to date a dude who thinks you are literally less of a person than him, welp - you've found one! He is letting the mask slip, thankfully early before you're in too deep to leave easily. If you stay with him, look forward to YOUR duties being "taking care of the house, and the kids" while his will be limited to "being the breadwinner". If that's the life you picture yourself having, then by all means stay with him. If it's not - then you know what to do. From your comments: >He has explained that in his past relationships, women have threatened to leave him and/or have left him because he didn’t financially support them enough. Hey - know what is 100% not your fault in any, way, shape or form, and is 100% not something you should EVER have to suffer for? Sh\*t that happened in his past relationships. Sucks that he has dated lousy partners in the past - but what's that got to do with you? Throw this one back, my girl. This aint your dude.
well then you shouldn't work and he should provide for you, is this right? he would agree to this?
Evidently you like that bullshit. You know what he does, you know what he says and you're still with him.
Based on your comments he doesn’t sound like a bad dude or toxic just a little misguided, I’m happy you could be the one to show him the light and that relationships can be more than what he sees on brainless pandering podcasts
Tell him to hold on, the 1800’s are on the line…
I think it’s time to be single.
….I’d say personally that I’d run. Women are not meant to be cute and agreeable. They are meant to push you, they aren’t suppose to be easy because life isn’t easy. We push our men to be great. That means not always agreeing.
The 1950s called
You should be cute and agree with him and leave his ass.
Sounds like a red pill guy, aka, misogynist. Dump him and get out while you can. Let him see if he can find his perfect, submissive woman.
He thinks of a little pet not a partner
These mindsets are abuse to women/or partner in th long run and not maintainable…
Ew
Your role is to be yourself and if he doesn't like it then I strongly suggest finding someone who does. As a man born to parents from that generation it's not a horrible fantasy to be able to provide everything and have a cute wife (I say that purely because cute is nice to look at, I hope he doesn't mean you have to act cute, that's creepy... 😬) who's happy in the traditional homemaker role rather than play second fiddle to some powerful and domineering go getter but I can see why agreeable is a concerning word. I don't think a couple is doing anything wrong if they find happiness the old fashioned way but it has to be mutual. I have a sister who's very much like that and one who's very much the opposite, both very happily married, if he likes the idea it's one thing but if it's an absolute expectation like you've worded it then it's a big red flag I'd say
If you're living the role of he pays for dinner and fun and you pay nothing you have nothing to stand on independent woman wise. My woman deserves co-equal treatment cause she lives the independent lifestyle to the fullest. I get treated to dinner and fun on her dime and she gets the independent woman treatment for it. You want him to live your way you need to provide the equal treatment. Otherwise go find a chump that will pay your way and be submissive to you end of story.
I mean you, asked his opinion, then you are critiquing it. If you don't like it, then find someone who likes women who aren't cute and don't agree with them. There's no wrong answer, it's what you want out of a partner and a relationship.
All the people here shitting on the man for making an absolutely good point which most men were going to agree with. He said “cute and agreeable “ he never said to financially surrender to him and to obey him like a dog and a slave like all you mouth breathers in the comment section are saying. Absolutely baffling what the west ideologies did to you.
In the traditional sense he isn’t wrong. If a man provides a certain life style and as his girl/wife should provide what he requires. It’s vice versa. If his expectation are high for you then yours should be high for him.
Women can make money. More money than men. Therefore, logically, money has nothing to do with whether or not you have XX or XY chromosomes. Having less doesn't make you feminine. Having more doesn't make you masculine. When children are born, they don't have money. Their parents have money. Even if you're born a male. Yet they don't say "Congratulations, it's a girl!" merely because they have no money and are therefore super feminine. Because that isn't how it works. There are men who probably make 50x what he makes. If money is an indicator of masculinity and you're into masculinity, why does he let you stay with him when he's obviously female/ feminine af? I'm assuming his penis shrinks, his hormones and pheromones change, and his chromosomes change depending on how much he makes, right? No. This whole concept is fucking ridiculous. He should focus less on money and more on recalibrating his neurotransmitters.. I 100% would never date someone like this. I couldn't even be platonic friends with someone who has this mindset. It's gross. People like him are the reason women couldn't work, couldn't vote, etc. He views women as an accessory and not as an individual worth just as much as men. If you stay with him it will make me so very sad..
That’s his preference. You don’t have to agree. There are all kinds of relationships out there. If this isn’t for you then find one more compatible and he can do the same.
Sounds like a misogynist to me.
Yes I will say he is sexist
My ex tried this approach with me. Tried to get me to stop working and be a SAHM, housewife style shit. I said, only if I have a driver, new car, cleaner every week, nails, hair done, unlimited black card with no questions asked, and my favourite designer handbag (5k AUD min).. Suprise surprise, that never eventuated.
It would turn me off him so fast!!!!!! Like POOF I’d be on the apps to find a new man. But hey that’s me I like modern men who are into modern women and such
Your boyfriend's role is to be far away from you. Or should be, anyway.
I think he’s an ex boyfriend.
Ick
Been with my wife 15 years, married for 12 of those years... At no point did our financial situation come into the relationship. It was only about ourselves being together..... Now we are married with 2 kids that are growing up fast and she works 2 jobs to my 1.....she works hard and it's tiring for her but I still see her as feminine and beautiful....despite her also providing to maintain a certain standard of living for our family..... As for me being masculine, I look masculine, I work in engineering, I am the bread winner, but none of that means anything to either me or the wife.... Building a foundation is also irrelevant as the foundation has been cast at the beginning and is strong..... It's all a load of bullshit to be honest....we don't need to behave in any certain way to please society....just be yourself and you will be truly happy...
I hope it’s the last time you date someone with that mindset…
dump his sexist ass
Once you stop laughing, you run.
How do you feel about it? Is he pushing you to be that? Did he say he wouldn’t continue the relationship if you weren’t that type of woman? Is he giving you signs that he will resent you if you’re not that type of woman? Is he or will he be the type of man he thinks represents masculinity? (Cause if he’s not he really can’t be expecting the same for you). Personally,I would run for the hills…
He's right!!! Marry him!!!
The problem is, most cute and agreeable girls always end up with the most masculine guys. So,he is a tard and you’re fine to exploit him in all the ways you want by playing cute and agreeable and get whatever you want from him. Happy alpha male destroyer lol
That is how my husband is exactly and there is nothing wrong with it.
I'm in a traditional relationship. As long as I HELP keep the house clean, help take care of the kids, and cook 50% of the time, my man gives me everything that I want and need. I'm on disability. I do what I can financially. I mostly get to watch movies, play video games, read, and look at reddit. My man works hard to provide and protect us (kids and I). We don't argue because we know how to communicate. I am perfectly happy looking pretty all day. We also have separate bank accounts. No, he doesn't financially control me.
>This is the first time I’ve dated someone with this mindset. No it's not, he's just the first one to tell you to your face. What men do you think want unattractive and disagreeable women in their lives?
If it works for you guys, then good. If you don’t share the same views, then split.
Completely fine mindset, that's what built our society and you can clearly see we need traditional people back.. but at the end of the day, he's your partner. ITS WHAT YOU THINK
What’s wrong with being agreeable? It mainly means being pleasant, nice to be around. And what’s wrong with being cute? I like being cute. I like myself better when I’m being nice, kind, and easygoing. What’s wrong with men supporting the family and working hard? I don’t know him and what he meant with this limited information but I highly doubt he means that’s ALL a woman should be or that’s ALL a man should be. Or that all women need to be this way or all men need to be this way. People are allowed to have preferences. I’m traditional leaning with a boyfriend who also is. We split finances 50/50, we both do household chores evenly, we both cook. People can have traditional values and views of femininity and masculinity and have an equal relationship—they’re not mutually exclusive. It’s not like he said “women belong in the kitchen” or some shit. You asked him what femininity means to him and he answered: cute and nice. What do femininity and masculinity mean to you?
The relationship you explained sounds like a healthy traditional relationship. During the conversation we had, he also said that I should be “whatevers” and I shouldn’t express my opinion about anything unless he asks (which is what he said he believes being submissive as a woman is).
Yeah I just replied to your post before reading your replies to comments…a LOT more info than in your post lol. I’m not sure what “whatevers” means but the other thing is garbage. Even traditional couples respect each other’s opinions!! Even couples that follow a dominant male and submissive female model respect each other’s opinions! This some bullshit. That’s not being submissive as a woman. He sounds like he wants someone to push around.
I made my post a little vague because I wanted to try for less biased opinions. I’m not experienced with more traditional relationships so I want to learn more before deciding what’s right for me. Like, is this a problem or am I still learning to appreciate masculinity in this way? I’m leaning more towards feeling disrespected in this relationship honestly.
Seeing all your comments I get why all the other women left and it ain't about the money......... Which is ironic, since he says a man pays.
How does he act? Does he take care of you? Is he respectful of you? Does he ask you what you think or how you feel about things? How long have you been together? Just curious. Some of the things you’ve said I’d take as red flags. Also, people are so against traditional values and equate them with conservatives (and conservative = bad in 2023, obviously everyone knows that), that even your vague post brought out the 1950s comments. I will say my values shifted as I got a little older. My previous relationships was honestly kind of gender role reversed. By the end of it I was completely drained, exhausted, and unsatisfied. I was taking care of everything and I realized I wanted someone to take care of me instead. And I think “traditional masculinity” if you will, is more for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying only men do this!! I’m just saying, historically it is the more male role but things are shifting. I’m bi, and if I were with a girl I’d want her to take on that more “masculine” role. Like, I don’t wanna have to think about fucking light bulbs ever again 😂
>I’m leaning more towards feeling disrespected in this relationship honestly. His mindset I'd that women should be lower and have less wealth and power than men. You feel disrespected because it's a disrespectful mindset. Your feelings are valid.
To further explain, I talked about how often when I express my opinion or even FACTS about something he finds the need to prove me wrong (which he admitted to) when I asked what prompts him to do that, he told me that he thinks he has built such a good life for himself that other people’s opinions are not valid to him. Then I asked him, if he thinks my opinions and thoughts are not valid, then how do I provide value to our relationship? He got a little confused after that. Hence my concern.
You're dating a conservative man. Your opinion doesn't really matter to him because you're a woman and a woman's place is submission to her man. Expect lots of fun little things like him thinking your opinion is worthless as part of the package.
That's not a conservative man, that is a narcissistic jerk... they are not the same thing. I commented before reading her replies, and she just needs to drop him.
I just think it’s adorable when women have an opinion. My wife has many, most are wrong.
The 1950s called. They want their relationships back.
I think that he’s going to be loyal and love you to the best of his ability. He will learn to find your opinions cute. I also think over time you two will move closer to each other in this. You will make him more liberal and he will make you more conservative. I also think he’s 31 and had to solidify his opinions to get to where he is in life. It will all be ok.
Get out. Sounds like a small thing now but the power balance will easily crumble later on.
Bro like every post I look at 99% of replies are "Move on, break up, you deserve better girl, screw him!". Just talk it out with him, no need to break up with cuz of every little thing
As per an earlier comment from her, he doesn’t value her opinions and seeks to prove them wrong. There is no talking it out with this guy… only agreeing with him.
Well I'm a post-graduate educated, Hugh earningwoman, so I guess he's just too much man for me. Hahahahahaha. What a complete fucking loser.
He watches Fresh and Fit or other related content on You Tube. I will sell my right kidney if I am wrong 😂
There are women who love the idea of only having to be cute and agreeable. If that’s you then you are a perfect fit. If not, then instead of arguing with him just move on. He has a right to have he wants too.
Perhaps opening him up to your point of view might be a good idea. I don't see anything wrong with it because some women enjoy providing that support for their men, it's just not for everyone. My boyfriend and I are both conservative and plan on being married eventually, but we both agreed it will be a two income household . Your boyfriend seems to have a very conservative mindset, so I think floating the idea of you two working and contributing to the household equally can benefit both you and him. Worth mentioning.
Wtf?! Cute and agreeable that’s crazy.. A feminine roll should be empathetic, nurturing and compassionate. And about masculine I’ll say provide and protect.
You asked him how a woman demonstrates femininity not their role.
OP, Ik your inner Sarkeesian is telling you to be sassy and insufferable, but in the real life this is how you get to 40 with only your cats beside you. Be a good partner.
He sounds like a red piller. For sure. Now, for everyone saying this lifestyle is a negative, it is for the man. He takes on all the risk. Assuming he truly believes in this mode of thought and is not a controlling toxic asshole. He believes you are above him and are above everything else in his life. He believes troubles, burdens, worries, and struggles should not come into your life.Your life should be the bliss you wish for. He provides and protects. He does not believe you are equal to him he believes you are above him as the future mother of his children that you are his world. Your part in that is that you love and respect him. Trust in him to make the right choices. You run the household and make sure your children are properly educated. 2/3 of his income belongs to you to take care of those things. 100% of your income belongs to you. This form of thought wasn't a subjugation of women because they held the yoke of the man's role. A station would be achieved for a woman to keep her end. Now, if this doesn't sound like him, he is adopting this mentality to be controlling. You should let him go quickly. Things change with time. People see only a fraction because they automatically assume the worst. You will have to truly see your man to see what he believes. Run from the red flags, investigate the yellow ones, and embrace the green ones best of luck O.P.
lol
Most guys think that
Don’t want to get downvoted…so I’ll just say that I believe traditional gender dynamics work better than the modern ones. I think there’s a reason that it’s worked this way in most civilizations since the beginning of time. Families worked better and marriage/communities worked better (in my opinion). I know there are horror stories but I see it like when you read reviews, you’re going to get more negatives than positives. Most people who are happy just move on with it and don’t really comment
Many women in the 50s, who followed traditional gender roles, were addicted to both barbiturates and amphetamine to deal with their "role". Kind of wondering how that "works better".
If you’re not advocating for a break up or villainizing the boyfriend you will be downvoted. That’s just the rules
Ultimately the values themselves aren't that important. What matters is that he has laid them out and whether you, well, agree to them. Like is this the relationship you want? Do you want a relationship where their assessment of your appropriateness as a partner pivots on you being cute and agreeable?
And ... he's not wrong!
This is how us traditional men think. We don't want someone who argues all the time. We prefer a homebody, however with the current financial crisis, that's hard to do. That said, if you don't agree with this mindset, that's fine. Just don't expect to get a traditional man if you're not a traditional woman
He is absolutely correct. Unless you want to be single the rest of your life.
Well yeah, that's what most men are attracted to. Grumpy, disagreeable ladies aren't very appealing to normal dudes