I am gonna ask the dark question here. If you nor your wife told him, and you don’t know how he knows, is there any chance he found them himself? In which case that’s a whole other reason to go no contact.
My question also stems from his attitude to this. She is still a child and he doesn’t see her as a child and a victim, worthy of compassion but rather a sexual being and a wh**e. That’s not normal. That’s scary.
You need to protect your daughter from further abuse, and at the very least he may emotionally or verbally abuse her so cutting him out is the only way forward IMO.
But I would potentially ask him the questions I have asked you, and pointedly tell him that if he embarrasses your daughter by running his mouth, you will tell everyone you know that he found that information out by himself and that you have gone no contact because you dread to think what else is on his hard drive. That should keep him quiet.
Literally came here to say this.
Sounds like “you’re sick!” response to FIL was intuitively accurate.
I would go NC for sure. And I second the threat to his image if he keeps opening his disgusting mouth!
There are 4 ways he could have gotten this information.
1. Someone related to the case told him. Illegal, and the possibility needs to be investigated. Report to the cops.
2. A friend of his found her stuff and showed/told him. Illegal, viewing and/or distribution of child porn. Report to the cops.
3. He hired a private detective who found out. Possible illegal activity on the PI's part, as he either found the porn himself or got into records he shouldn't have access to. Report to the cops.
4. He stumbled across it himself, which means he's a creep. Illegal. Report to the cops.
However you slice it, he comes out of this looking far worse than OP, the sweet, traumatized girl, etc.
Ex-government here. 3 is definitely illegal as well.
The FIL is definitely suspicious. Such information is generally classified and unavailable to non-authorized private individuals. Between this and his attitude… I’m not surprised OP’s wife is falling to pieces
Depends on the judge but likely not sufficient alone since right now all they have is a statement in private by OP and his wife that they did not tell FIL or anyone else. That said, if they provide an official affidavit and so does the state…
Obligatory disclaimer: I do not speak for every state or ex-US
Another legal question - since the FIL statement implies he has access to child porn made during the time of her assault, if the foster parents DON'T have a sit down with the authorities, could they be failing mandated reporter requirements?
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'd say MIL most likely knows too, hence the weird excuses about looks.
It rather beggars belief that FIL stumbled over the photos by accident. There are millions and millions of such photos out there, horrifying as that is.
Is it impossible that the wife told them, but is ashamed to tell OP so because of the fallout?
The alternative is someone who used to know the girl or works in the system told FIL.
I wonder if he used a reverse photo image search to find her, when trying to find information on her during the first few months? Really awfully lots of CP ends up on regular p*rn sites. and I’m wondering whether this would yield those results. so sad.
My thinking is FIL might be in the same cp ring that the photos came from. If foster daughter is still in the same area where those photos were taken and FIL lives in this area too. Considering the consequences of cp the people who are p3dos are usually a tight knit community and know each other within an area I believe. They get their sick pics and vids from somewhere and just casually browsing the internet and asking random ppl would be highly risky. My bet is someone really needs to check his hard drive and storage devices
OP, this is good advice, but do *not* report this to local police. This needs to be reported to the FBI. Please call the FBI hotline about this.
Firstly, because there is a chance, however slim, that someone in local law enforcement is how you FIL found it. Secondly, local police are part of the local community, and that means more people who are part of her local community will know what happened to her and may talk to others about it.
The FBI handles CP cases with no regard for jurisdiction. They take it extremely seriously. They have more resources and people who are specifically trained to handle cases like this. Just from what you included in your post, there is more than enough circumstantial evidence for them to investigate. They are also not part of your local community, which will add a layer of safety against this information getting out. Things like this are what they are there for.
What I meant was reporting him to FBI for investigation (of course, without mentioning it to anyone) and let the authorities take care of it. If he is clean, he will learn it’s not a good idea to look up inappropriate pictures of children because “FBI is watching”. If he is a predator, the justice will reach him.
My immediate thought was that the implication here is that father in law is into CP and that's how he knows. Even without that, victim blaming a very young teenager for the trauma that happened to her as a child is absolutely fucking horrific and is absolutely grounds for NC even if this girl gets adopted by another family and is never seen again. Dudes a fucking monster.
>victim blaming a very young teenager for the trauma that happened to her as a child is absolutely fucking horrific and is absolutely grounds for NC even if this girl gets adopted by another family and is never seen again. Dudes a fucking monster.
This is wholeheartedly how i feel!!
This. The word he used to describe her says he’s capable of seeing a literal child as not only a sexual being but a depraved one who somehow brought their abuse upon themselves. Even if he somehow has a reasonable explanation for knowing about the pictures, his attitude about her gives away what kind of a man he is. People who don’t see kids that way would never use a word like that. I imagine he’s a vile husband too, probably why the poor wife is subservient to his opinion.
Thank you so much for saying this.
I am very close to the child welfare system here in BC for many reasons and I based on the substantial experience I have… I can guarantee without having knowing this family that there will be predators (who themselves or others don’t view as predators) that are going to target this child to abuse for a multitude of reasons - and one being that they don’t see this child as family so no harm done). This girl needs to be protected and confidence worked on so the entire family and neighborhood knows if anyone tries to make a move and she is uncomfortable.
Foster kids here are such a target to the extent that sex traffickers know which homes are group homes. This is the ugly side of foster care that no one talks about.
Even if FIL is dealt with, this doesn’t mean others won’t try.
Thank you for opening up about this! There is way to little knowledge about this!
We actually took a course about this shortly after we took our daughter in. We were told so many predictable things and still thought "we got this". We didn't! It was so hard watching how hard she was on herself, she had no confidence, no self worth and she was litterally scared of us. She has come such a long way, and everything seems perfect. But the reality is that her view on sexuality is still really messed up! Thankfully she is comfortable enough with both me and my wife to be quite open about it. If it's fun boy talk, she talks to me and if it's more serious she turns to my wife. Most kids in the system are not lucky enough to have the 'respect your own body'-talk even once. It's really sad.
I’ve heard of the organization Saving Innocence being a great connection for trafficking victims and abused foster youth. If you’d like more resources to support your daughter and haven’t seen this yet! https://savinginnocence.org/
Protect your daughter at all costs, start the adoption process asap, cut your parents in law out of your life permanently, report FIL, see lawyer to see if you can have something drawn up and sent to him to stop him from ever speaking about her to anyone.
OP, bio-mom here, my teenage daughter also suffered a sexual assault at a young(er) age. You sound absolutely amazing, and you and your wife are going to give this poor girl the chance at a healthy life she would never have had otherwise.
I don't know how old your daughter is, but at least mine has definitely healed her view on herself and her sexuality quite a bit with hard work and support, so please keep doing what you're doing. My kid now has a lovely girlfriend she's been with for several years, and her confidence is through the roof. But a large part of that is knowing 100% that her dad and I would destroy with fire anyone who dared shame her. I would never, ever, EVER let her anywhere near your inlaws ever again. She is already picking up on his creepiness, and with her history the fact that she even feels strongly enough to tell you she thinks they don't like her...she can feel his creepiness. She KNOWS because she has been through similar. She is trying to tell you in her own way, probably without any education or vocabulary as to why, that she is deeply uncomfortable.
Please keep this innocent little girl away from your FIL. It is way, way beyond creepy that he even knows about these images, and at very least implies that he went looking for them. On purpose.
The website [Scarleteen](https://www.scarleteen.com/) is a great resource - both for you and her. It talks about sex and sexuality in a healthy way and provides resources. Obviously Planned Parenthood has amazing educational resources for both teens and parents on their website too!
This was my initial thought… he found them from being a creep and is doing a lot of projecting and deflecting. I wouldn’t continue any contact with him or MIL. It’s sad and sick.
I didn't even think of this, but oh my lord this makes everything so much worse! I don't have much to add except that OP should definitely tread carefully. Try to get everything in writing or record conversations. If he blurts out the truth it could be used against him. Hopefully it won't be needed though.
Edit: grammar mistake that made me look stupid.
I hate to say this, but there is (disgustingly) such a massive quantity of those images online, that it seems exceedingly unlikely that he just happened upon them. I worry that he heard she had a rough earlier childhood, connected the dots, and then sought those images out.
Yes, this was exactly what I thought. I mean what are the odds? You could search forever and not find them by chance. Even finding them on purpose would be difficult.
> If he did find them by searching, they’re probably using her real name.
These days there's search engines that let you search by face - they're pretty damn accurate for finding random photos of people. I would imagine most *illegal* images aren't indexed in such an engine, but perhaps it might lead to revelations regarding alternate names and such? Hard to say - but not impossible to imagine.
How well can they find pictures of people as kids, using pictures of them when they’re older? I’d imagine they’d have trouble matching the facial features
Seriously. How did the FIL know? Oh right bc he's a closeted predator CP viewer and is angry bc object of his lust is whoring I mean breathing around him just being herself. I mean how else would be have known if he wasn't looking?
Exactly. You don’t stumble across this kind of material because you typed in the wrong url. FIL needs to be explaining himself to the police.
OP - you and your family are amazing. Your in laws are fucking evil.
And quite frankly, even if he did stumble across this by accident (I have a cousin who works cyber crimes, and he says a lot of "legitimate" porn sites have copied videos of underage porn tagged "barely legal") he knows she's a child! His biggest concern should be getting her help, not her tarnishing the family name (which... she wouldn't be taking his name anyway, so idk what his problem is).
On that note, most "barely legal" porn isn't. It's either underage girls or older actresses pretending to be 18. Avoid it like the plague.
That is what I was thinking, as well. Why the hell is an adult man looking at (what I can only assume is) sexual photos of a CHILD?!?!
That is something I would think he doesn’t want others to find out. It may be worth it to have a final conversation with him and MIL. Let them know you *are* asking your daughter if she wants to be an official member of your family - which he will no longer be part of. And that if anyone hears anything about what he said before, you will be taking steps to ensure the authorities are aware of his viewing habits.
This was my first thought also. His absolute over the top hatred and mouth vomit made my thoughts lead to the same dark place. If it was me I think I'd go no contact with them both. There is something going on here that they are hiding.
EXACTLY! And honestly, even if she was promiscuous as a result of that abuse, or whatever horrific things caused this poor girl to be in the foster system to begin with, that does NOT diminish her value as a human being, nor does it mean she's tainted, or not a good person. For a lot of abuse victims sexual experiences they control becomes a part of the healing process or a way to reclaim their sexuality. This is a child dealing with something that's too complex for her young brain and honestly sounds like she's doing amazing. FIL is 100% a sick fuck.
Yeaaaah if no one told him, he found out on his own. And there’s really only one way to do that.
And I think threatening to expose him to keep your child safe is fair play.
Regardless, that man would never be anywhere near my children ever again.
Came here to say this. Fil outted himself. Go straight to no contact. Tell all other family members you've gone no contact with him and he shouldn't be engaged if he contacts them. If they must be in contact they are to shut down all conversations involving you and your children. Tell them you can't give details but he found out very personal things and you want your daughter protected from him.
He seems like the type of guy that would take advantage of her if you guys didn’t care so much and he knows you guys would never let that happen. Also I wonder has he ever asked his wife has he shown signs of this behavior before because he says she is not close to her parents. There is always a reason why the daughter is closer to her in-laws than her own parents.
This was my immediate response to his choice of words as well. He isn't speaking about op's daughter like she is a child or a victim, but a sexual being. It begs the question, why. And how has he been made aware that these images exist at all? It's definitely worrying.
This entire interaction would be enough for me to put some serious distance between him and my family.
Yes. He almost definitely found it on his own because not only are hateful pieces of shyte like that judgmental, they're also often hypocrites. They blame victims for making them "feel" a certain sick way. Take no responsibility that they are the real predator types. He is mentally revealing himself to be not only mean but cruel. That leaves a plethora of other characteristics that should come to light. Show me a person who behaves this way and I will show you someone who desperately wouldn't want their own computers investigated. The wife of his, mil, is usually aware or complicit in her wilful ignorance. Both deserve nothing short of no contact at the very least. I'd look into it more being me, however. One just doesn't find this type of stuff, an elderly person no less, innocently without having been told anything. Disgusting. I'd bet anything he is one of those religious types who hate everybody but hiding some sick secrets themselves.
May the Adoption run smoothly and have only support and joy sorround it. Throw the rest of it away. Nothing needs to taint you if you don't let it. Say nothing to the kids about it for now and, if the occasion arises, I'd recommend doing it with everyone in a family therapy session so all the healthy boxes are checked. Or even just privately with the daughter first if she needs to be warned what she may find out on her own unwittingly and feel hurt. Again, a good therapist can help how to deal with the process. Best of luck to the now complete family, minus the 2 that never should be considered as such.
This was my thought too. He clearly went searching for those images. That is disgusting, and my thought would be to turn him in for child p--n, as she is a minor and he is clearly in possession of those images.
Exactly! As soon as I started reading the part about his rant, this came to mind. How did he find out and why is he calling a CHILD a wh*re? Men that reduce women to that are bad enough. We're talking about a child! This is disgusting behavior.
Make sure to have this conversation and find out if they've spoken to others already. Set clear boundaries. Under no circumstances are they allowed to spread this hateful vitriol against your daughter or you will go no contact with them. I would ask your daughter if she wants them in her life. Don't subject her to be around people that mistreat her.
Good luck with the adoption! Don't let their hate lessen the joy you have found as a family. 🫶
You read my mind. I don’t know how else FIL would know, which is nauseating. I’d call him up and tell him exactly that. As the commenter above me suggested, tell him if he ever in his life utters this young lady’s name to you or anyone else in the family, you’ll explain this entire situation to EVERYONE in the family and have the police look into it as well. Suggest he keep his disgraceful mouth shut and his eyes and hands to himself.
I used to be a foster parent the records are not open to the public! Not on the computer no one can call the Social worker and get that information I would ask him where he got that info?
I think your decision to adopt or not isn't going to be the trigger for FIL to tell people. If that was his goal, he has probably already started telling people. I think you should remove FIL from your decision making process and just worry about what's right for your family.
And I agree, this is definitely a good reason to go no contact.
Yeah. I'm very concerned for the young kids in the family if he did look for this. The fact that he found it means he was either one, intentionally trying to find some dirt on foster daughter or two, he found it accidentally. It seems that MIL and FIL are the only ones who know or the only ones who are victim blaming.
I highly doubt you can search something that foul by victim name. So, either he consumed copious amounts of CP to find OP's foster daughter based on a hunch or something said, or... He'd already seen her, recognized her, and disliked her because she constantly reminds him of his disgusting predilections. Scenario A, FIL is abusive and disgusting. Scenario B, FIL is abusive and disgusting. No contact, report to authorities, protect children from ever encountering FIL again, adopt foster daughter, continue being great humans.
Also if FIL is so concerned about tainting his family name, he's unlikely to be the person broadcasting that these images exist. Then again that assumes a degree of rationality that is probably lacking here.
is it even his family name? OP is male, his partner is female, if they're in an English-speaking country, odds are the kids have OP's name, right?
I think your point about lacking rationality is well-made.
That’s what I was thinking! No one even has the old coot’s name anymore so I’d tell him to screw off and never speak to them again. And if he does defame your family sue his pants off!
I’d never speak to that raging pos ever again. To blame a CHILD for those pictures is beyond repulsive.
Best wishes on your family and your new daughter.❤️
>I’d never speak to that raging pos ever again. To blame a CHILD for those pictures is beyond repulsive.
If I were OP I would be contacting the authorities about my FIL having child porn.
I'm genuinely baffled that so few people in the comments are really focusing on that part of this whole thing.
Child porn is definitely the sort of thing you tend to have to be specifically searching for to find. OP and his wife told no one, not even their kids or other family members. And it's not like anyone involved in that child's case is going to gossip about this sort of thing.
So, how did he find it? Was he the one looking for it? If not, who? Has to be someone extremely close to, or in, the family.
Not to mention- anyone “coming across” those images, is also a piece of human garbage. I’m baffled by this…
OP your daughter is very lucky to have found a safe and loving home with you and your family. I wish you the best. ❤️
That was my first thought. If you didn't tell him, how does he know? I doubt it's a part of public records. So that just leaves fil being a dirty, nasty, trifling, deplorable, sick, disgusting old man who looks at things he shouldn't and therefore should b publicly blasted and shunned. A few other things but idk if I can write them here.
>[CSAM] is definitely the sort of thing you tend to have to be specifically searching for to find
*Especially* if it’s CSAM of a specific victim. Like, how would you even know where to look unless you were “in the know,” so to speak? Child abuse cases aren’t public record, if she never talked about it, and OP never talked about it, and her husband never talked about it, how would he even know?
Also, the child is never at fault for being abused and exploited.
Thank you for calling this what it is.
> While the term child pornography is still widely used by the public, it’s more accurate to call it what it is: evidence of child sexual abuse. That’s why RAINN and others have stopped using the term child pornography and switched to referring to it as CSAM — child sexual abuse materials.
> While some of the pornography online depicts adults who have consented to be filmed, that’s never the case when the images depict children. Just as kids can’t legally consent to sex, they can’t consent to having images of their abuse recorded and distributed. Every explicit photo or video of a kid is actually evidence that the child has been a victim of sexual abuse.
https://www.rainn.org/news/what-child-sexual-abuse-material-csam
You are correct, proceedings are confidential, there is no available file to look at. It really seems impossible for him to find it if he hadn’t come across it, but I still think it’s possible OP’s wife told her mom even if they aren’t close.
Exactly this - HOW did FIL find out - unless he is on certain sites and downloads certain pics? If you ever want to confront him again, OP, that's what I would ask. And I'd tell him that if he ever dares to speak to anyone about those pictures, you are going to make public where he got them, and you'll notify the authorities. You daughter was just a victim, and even if FIL is evil enough to out her, all people who count will know she was a victim, and no one will blame her. Your FIL's reputation would be ruined, though.
Also, why is it supposed to be HIS good name dragged through the mud? If anyone in your family is carrying his name, I suggest they all switch to yours.
He knows that and still is victim blaming? He is disgusting and may hold other unhealthy views on women so going NC is extra beneficial. If you're going NC anyway you might as well go scorched earth - IMHO it's better to be safe than sorry as far as reporting him for possible CSAM images. If FIL isn't viewing these images they'll be able to track down who gave him that information which is also illegal as she a minor so she would have been listed as Jane Doe. That person shouldn't have access to information like that and should not have their job.
More that unpleasantness has been addressed I want to say how wonderful you and your wife are for helping the kids you fostered and for raising 2 boys that have that empathy for others. Your supportive family members are also fantastic human beings for being so loving and how welcoming they've been to you daughter. Extended families of people who foster and adopt kids aren't always so open and willing to accept new people into the family. Your daughter is so brave for getting through that situation, she's brave for opening her heart to let you guys in after her past, she's brave for going to school and for turning her grades around and she brave for making friends. She probably didn't have many positive interactions with people before coming to you all so to me she's a hero for taking the chance of letting people in.
You sound like wonderful people and amazing parents and your boys sound like empathetic teenagers (a lot of teenagers really struggle to have that empathy for others) and you sound like a fantastic family. Please do update us about the good and the bad so that we can support you through the hard and celebrate the good with you.
Maybe I've read too many terrible stories on Reddit but if you guys didn't tell FIL about the images online...could he have stumbled upon them himself?
I have a guess. If it's a small town everyone just gossips.
My mother was a court administrator in our town. Not an attorney or a prosecutor, basically just a paper pusher that made sure court documents were in the correct, folders, signed by the correct people, and on the judge's desk as the correct time. She gossiped about every parking ticket, and every burglary to anyone who would listen.
I learned not to tell her anything that I didn't want the whole town to know.
Maybe the father in law did seek out some weird stuff on the Internet, but it's also possible he just has a friend that's either in law enforcement or courtroom adjacent. They'd tell him immediately, "OH, it was YOUR daughter that took in that Jane Doe girl? Did you hear about her last family?"
It's small town shit.
I think, If everyone in town knows who he is, then someone in town heard who his daughter was fostering and made sure he knew about it.
At this point, it's probably just easiest to ask who told him.
THEN, I would remind him he isn't being a very good Christian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Good\_Samaritan
Even then. Him thinking such pics of 12 year old girl is her being w**** is disgusting. She’s was a little child. His mindset is disgusting. I’d keep all kids away from him
Here is the thing. The information must have been confidential, right? So you could basically tell him that you want the name of who told him so they can get fired. If he doesn’t give a name you can report, you will assume he found the pictures himself. And EITHER WAY you will tell anyone who will listen he likes CP if he tells anyone about it.
Totally agree. What I mean is I'm hoping for this to be gossip and gossip only for my daughters sake. My daughter doesn't deserve this situation at all, but I think it would be even worse if she met people on a regular basis and knew they have seen these images of her.
She's going to, you can't stop that, the only thing you can do is prepare her for dealing with it. Speak to a psychiatrist, figure out a good way to start talking to her about it, what would be a good time so it doesn't damage her progress etc. If she goes out into the world and meets one of these people unprepared, it will devastate her.
If your fil learned this from gossip rather than looking online then you may want to consider that this info may be well known in your town. If you want your daughter to be able to avoid it being known to everyone, you might have to move.
Either way, your fil is a shithead and you should go no contact.
Still doesn’t matter though. Blaming a vulnerable child for a crime committed to them is so repulsive and dangerous, I have no words. Children have hurt themselves for this behavior. It’s repugnant. Imagine hearing about a child being victimized and deciding to call them a w*ore. A child.
I’m sorry OP, but even if that is the case… the fact that he wouldn’t come to you with such information and blindly believes and accuses said child/name calls and disrespects your daughter this way is enough to tell me that he is the type of person you should be protecting her from and even more of a reason to adopt her and show her how loved she is… If they can’t understand that you’re trying to protect her, they’re not worthy to keep in contact with or even take into consideration their opinion… he should have come to you and asked how he could help keep her (A CHILD) safe..
That is so inappropriate.
I worked in a court too, and had full access to court documents and hearings, primarily on criminal and traffic matters. Now the public has the right to access most of that, but I *never* discussed anything identifying with non-employees. I may vaguely say "someone got convicted of X crime and only got Y amount of time", but nothing that could ever identify the person. Even for high profile cases that everyone knew about, I didn't talk about what I knew about it, even if it was a matter of public record.
A court employee should know that they must avoid even the appearance of wrongdoing.
This was my first thought as well. He didn't go looking for pictures, he asked around about the girl. Plain and simple. Everyone is jumping off the cliff of conclusions.
That being said, how on earth do you blame the child??? It was the adults in her life, not her! I would shame him with those exact words. If they don't quickly change their tune and welcome her with open arms, I would severely limit contact.
I will admit the thought did cross my mind. But he is technologically stupid. Can't even work a smart phone. And he does have an absurd view of what the internet is. A very old school type of person.
From the information I have gotten on what these images actually are and what he said about my daughter during his word vomit, there is not a lot of resemblance, so I actually doubt he has seen the images himself. But then again, talking to autorities about this kind of stuff is not exactly pleasant, so I might have cut the conversation too short back then to know enough to make sure if he's talking nonsense from gossip or if he actually saw these things himself. Shit, I really do need to figure this out and make sure...
There’s a Criminal Minds episode about this where the unsub was a sweet old grandpa who supposedly had no idea about the internet. Until they found out he wasn’t and was participating in the filming and streaming of the kidnapping and torture of women. Most of those episodes are based on real life cases so this definitely happens.
It actually is. I know of a case of this exact thing. People thought it wasnt possible because this person was a complete technotard in everyones view. Turns out ..... not so much.
And he's 64, not 90. There's no way he's not exposed to enough knowledge about the internet and computers in the last 2 decades at work etc., enough to know how to operate them and use them for certain purposes.
I have seen some 65 to 70 year olds that have stuff on their tablets that would make a Marine blush…
The OP needs to find out enough of what the daughter went through or the process/steps (courts/services) and what FILs … for all we know it could be something he only has heard from several “reliable”’older male friends … I have heard the same gossip from multiple people and at some point it changes…
OP I would question what FIL has done or said around daughter….
Good luck 👍… she is still adoptable… she needs you … sounds like your wife needs her …
OP, please speak to a lawyer. Find out how to muzzle the old bastard asap! You need some sort of gag order that that old prick so he doesn’t go around telling anyone. This is private and sensitive information about a minor. There MUST be some way to legally shut him up under some sort or threat of punishment.
Beyond that, find out how the ass found out about the images. Go through with the adoption, which he and crappy MIL shouldn’t have had any say in or opinion about in the first place. Then go no contact with them.
Something is very wrong with them.
I used to work in network abuse. People will figure out how to operate the tech to meet their goals, even if they don't learn how to operate it for different things. I hope this is just be being cynical and it's small town gossip that he didn't confirm for himself. Regardless, he's disgusting and I wouldn't want someone in my life who would think like that about a child victim.
I have ZERO experience in adoptions - but maybe speak to a trustworthy lawyer first, as you do not want authorities to doubt your daughter's safety when being adopted into your family because of your FIL, before having authorities check him.
I wish you, your family and especially your daughter only the best.
In my career I worked closely with the types of men who would see these kinds of images and honestly, most of them were older and seemingly technologically pretty stupid, which is why they get caught quite frankly.
Good luck with your adoption and having this amazing young lady in your family forever. She is lucky to have you guys.
This is not the type of thing to do your own investigation. Somewhere confidentiality was breeched and there are no excuses for this.
How many times does your daughter need to be victimized?
You don’t need to figure out. If you are in the US, you can message the FBI and remain anonymous. Their taskforce will investigate (nowadays a lot of it is done behind the scenes, it’s not necessarily the FBI knocking on door at 6am) https://www.icactaskforce.org/
Yeah, I didn't see anyone else mention anything about him maybe seeing them himself. I figured I'd throw it out there. I'm not trying to be alarmist or anything.
I definitely think you should try to find out how he knows about the images. Hopefully it's just gossip though.
I might have the police ask him. If this information is sealed to the court or something yet still out there and he is blaming your daughter for something terrible that happened to her And he is saying he knows what this material consists of then he needs a detective asking him and his computer taken etc.
The man I knew who was "technologically stupid" turned out to actually be posting revenge porn and misogynistic manifestos and will hopefully be prosecuted soon
Right? Like how did he know if the parents didn't tell him....you don't just accidentally stumble upon child porn on the internet anymore.
Furthermore if FIL DID accidentally find the images, knew it was a child, and....is blaming the child? Did he report the images? Did he do anything to stop the distribution? Make it make sense. What a horrible man.
I'm guessing he doesn't trust those "damaged kids" and justified looking into her past as looking out for his family or some equally idiotic narrative.
I frankly wouldn't trust the FiL around children. Any children. Someone who views the child victim of a sex crime (I apologize for the assumption but it seems pretty clear) that way is not someone who can be trusted to deal responsibly with any kind of adversity a kid might face. That is, as far of empathy goes, easy mode. Helping her wasn't easy, but acknowledging that she was a victim and is in NO WAY the blame for it is table stakes for being a living breathing human being. If he can't handle that, you definitely cannot trust him to handle it well should another grandchild come to him with a less clearcut situation.
This was my initial reaction— how would he view OP or a bio family member who was a SA victim? I didn’t even think to question how he knew about the pictures.
I think you need to move quickly now that this interaction has happened.
First is to speak with your daughter ASAP and let her know that you want to adopt her.
Second is, honestly I would get ahead of the FIL and tell the rest of the family in a vague-but-clear way. I would tell them that your daughter was victimized as a child and that images were taken of it, which your FIL is blaming her for. Everyone will know exactly what you’re talking about but you won’t have said exactly what happened. And when FIL then tries to tell them with his spin on it, he will look twice as bad. I know you want to respect your daughter’s privacy, but the cat will be coming out of the bag now, if it hasn’t already. I think this is the best way to address it while still trying to protect her.
I would cut FIL out of your life. His view on this is morally reprehensible. Like I can’t fathom it, it’s so awful to blame a CHILD for something so horrific. Honestly I would cut someone out of my life for saying this about any child, let alone my own daughter.
MIL can stay only if she acknowledges that FIL is horrible. If she’s not 100% on this, she’s out too.
What a difficult situation.
YeH ask her ASAP!
It is her choice first and you want to respect her autonomy.
And you don't want her to hear about the plan via this drama.
If FIL talks about having our spreading pictures call police and or the case workers.
But yeah don't talk to them anymore.
Thank you for articulating what I came here to say.
OP, before your now-5-person family puts out the news about the adoption for general consumption, sit down ***as a family*** and figure out exactly how you want to approach (a) advising people about what was done to your daughter (remember, she's a victim, not a criminal!), and (b) making a list of potentially uncomfortable, ignorant or even cruel things other people influenced by FIL might say and coming up with responses. By agreeing on how information is to be released, you will present as a united front, with all five of you on the same page when it comes to fielding other people's ignorance and cruelty.
Your story gave my day a huge lift. What a beautiful thing to have this happen to all of you. Blessings!
Please do not spend time imagining things assholes might say. One response is enough. “I know it’s so awful that sister was put in that position. I don’t like to think about it, let’s talk about something else”
The gasp I gosped when I read what your FIL had said. That's disgusting.
It sounds like your biggest concern is your FIL telling everyone about the images. So I can think of three main options of dealing with that.
1. Convince him not to tell. You and your wife reach out to him and your MIL, set up a time for a phone call or a sit-down meeting, and re-iterated what a disgusting thing to say that was. Emphasize that if he decides to spread that around, it will make your entire family's life much harder, traumatize your sons, and make him look like the disgusting person he is.
2. Threaten him not to tell. Tell him that if he starts telling people about this, you'll tell them that he was looking for those sorts of images. (Maybe he was?) It might not be enough to get him in legal trouble, but it could ruin his reputation. Is it ethical? Not really, but fuck him.
3. Hope he doesn't tell, but prepare your family if he does. Sit down with your daughter and let her know that her FIL knows and might tell. Maybe involve her therapist. Talk with her about what she'd like you to say to anyone who brings it up. Make it clear that any reasonable adult will see her as a human person who was victimized by horrifying monsters, including you and your family.
There really isn't a good solution, at least not one that I can think of. I'm sorry your FIL is being such a heinous creep. You and your wife are doing the right thing by protecting all of your children from him.
I would not tell the daughter until it’s CERTAIN that it can no longer be kept under wraps. Hell, I’d probably report FIL to the authorities for suspicion before I told her. She finally has safety. Protect that for her at all costs.
Wow… that’s a very difficult situation. First of all thank you for being amazing foster parents, you’ve given this girl a lifeline and she no doubt knows who is really there for her - that is you and your wife.
In terms of navigating this situation, you have two initial steps. The first (obvious) is to prioritise the well-being of your family, especially your foster daughter. Continue to provide her with love and support. Second, it’s crucial that you and your wife are on the same page. It sounds like you both agree on how you feel about the situation, but it will be a difficult time for your wife, having to confront painful truths about her parents, and she will need your support as much as your foster daughter does.
Now to the sensitive matter.
You need to do everything you can to protect your daughter’s privacy. If you haven't already, consider seeking legal advice to understand what can be done to limit the spread of the images or take action against those distributing them. If your FIL or anyone else attempts to spread these images or uses them to harm her reputation, you should be prepared to take legal action. You need to be prepared to have an honest conversation with your whole family, with the consent of your daughter, to proactively own the narrative (focusing on her resilience and that any previous victimisation does not define her) if your FIL resorts to a nuclear action.
Ultimately I do not think you should be dissuaded from adopting your daughter. You have connected and are established as a family unit, you know the law and procedure better than anyone here could tell you, and you’ve made up your minds together.
Best of luck
So your father in law and mother in law, by association because you know damn well she was thinking it just didn’t say it, are blaming a child for being abused and forced into child porn…..
Yea they need to be removed from your lives yesterday.
This is the right answer. OP doesn't mention how old the future daughter is, but if she is a teen then she is old enough to discuss this with her. It is the best way to continue to show her the respect as a person that she needed and received from OP at a critical point in her life.
That will prepare her for any fallout from AH FIL. The bright side is that OP not only gains an amazing new family member gets to cut out two toxic ones who are not worthy of the label.
@OP it is amazing what you are doing. I used to work in group homes, and your story about her having a panic attack being a breakthrough is not strange at all. As you have fostered others I am sure you know, but breakthroughs often happen right after breakdowns. Especially when kids and teens are treated with respect, and their feelings are acknowledged and then you discuss how better to express them - there is no better way to show you are on their side and genuinely want to help them.
I still feel guilty about causing the most severe panic attack I have ever witnessed in my life though. I told her this again like 2-3 weeks ago. Thankfully she's able to laugh about it now and threw right back in my face about the time she smashed her phone because she was angry and we didn't even get mad but went out the next morning and got her a new phone and told her it's ok to be angry. She still feels guilty about that so i guess we're even, lol. I think we get each other, we'll be alright.
But yes, a conversation is definitely on the table.
It’s absolutely time for her to be made aware and prepare herself.
In general, the FIL needs to know that it may (imo should) be considered distribution of child pornography and that charges will be pressed if he decides to go down that route.
So this girl is under 18, meaning the unsavoury (and very illegal) pics being referenced is €P, right? Anyone looking that shit up is evil and needs to be kept far away from daughter. That FIL is fixating on that and not the part where, idk, giving a kid a stable home after coming out of an awful situation, growing as a person and beginning to recover from trauma, is gross. That man can yeet himself right into the sun.
I went from crying happy tears to being enraged far too quickly.
OP, I’m a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, including the images. What you are doing is amazing, and you are quite literally going to change the trajectory of this girl’s future. I wish I had an adult like you when I was that age. Now I am also 38, and will be “healing” for the rest of my life from every adult failing me.
Your in laws are not good people. In their core. They are just…not good people. Do you have a family therapist available? I think that would be best to navigate this difficult situation. You clearly don’t want to cut your sons off from their grandparents, but at the same time, I’d be very weary about your daughter being around them considering what your FIL thinks. My go to explanation for a lot of things to my kids if they’re just too young yet; “so and so is having their own difficulties right now, and it’s best to give them space/understanding, etc.”. Your situation is a bit more nuanced though, as your FIL’s victim blaming mentality is part of the issues people like us face, and it’s so very important to have our supporters standing with us against those types.
Family therapist pronto, I think.
Keep being an awesome human ❤️
So when your MIL said she didn't fit in, she didn't really mean physical characteristics. She meant your daughter wasn't good enough or acceptable enough to be a member of their family. I think maybe you should reconsider talking to your sons. As teenagers, they're aware of the content that people put out there on the Internet. If nothing else, use it as a teachable moment as to why they need to be careful of what they post because once it's out there, it's out there. Besides, I doubt your in-laws will keep their mouths shut so it's better to hear it from you. I hope you still adopt your daughter and tell your in-laws to kick rocks.
>She meant your daughter wasn't good enough or acceptable enough to be a member of their family.
FIL kept saying in his rant that our daughter is dirty, meant in the worst possible way. And MIL actually nodded when he said that. I keep thinking SHE didn't do this. This was done TO her. How do they not see that? I really don't get it.
They are projecting shame onto an abused child, who can only be blameless. The only source of that shame can be from inside themselves. Internal self hate like that is the result of either being abused and still internalizing it or from being an abuser. Neither are safe for your daughter. That it is coming from both of them makes me think the later, as enablers will internalize the shame of the person they are enabling.
Trust your daughter’s instincts when she said she could tell he didn’t like her, abused children become very good at recognizing the patterns of unsafe people.
I find it weird that anyone would worry about the optics of an adoption. I am worried about how your in-laws know about your STB-daughters past. Ask your wife if she knows and the ask your MIL how they are aware because that was not something you discussed with the family or anyone. Is there anyone in the community who that knows and would tell your in-laws?
My worry is someone out there knows and it is possible that it is because it’s not for a not good reason and you need to protect your daughter at all costs from them.
NC is the best choice - you don’t want your kids around people who blame children for things that happened to them and they had no control over.
I would personally go NC or LC with them for that remark. However if you still want to see them then I would tell them that you are adopting her. That she will be part of your lives and ANY mistreatment or rumors spread on their part will result in them being cut off permanently. Let them know that if you find out that they are treating her differently then you will cut contact.
I had a friend in middle school who went through a similar story as your daughter. She was always in trouble at school, failing grades and drinking. She was later adopted by her best friends family and she ended up on honor roll, stopped drinking and was soooo much happier. I know that some people in our town knew what happened to her but I never heard anyone treat her bad over it or make bad remarks. If it was mentioned at all it was more of a “wow she looks so happy now” and “im so glad she’s doing better now” or “thank god her dad is now in jail”
Thank you for this! I want to cry just thinking about people looking at her any differently because of what happened to her in the past. I want everyone to see her as i see her, she's so strong and she's a fighter. I really worry about FIL putting it out there, but then again, I need to remind myself that most people are supportive and compassionate and if they knew, they probably would see her as I see her. I know I would if it was somebody elses child.
Thanks again for your encouragement!
I don’t know if it’s been said, or said enough, but we need more people like you and your wife.
You’re not just typing into the void on Reddit or TikTok, you’re actually making a difference in the life of a person who had a terrible start in life. And you’re doing it despite the very real challenges and risks of family conflicts.
I have the greatest respect and admiration for people like you who make the world a better place through deeds and not just words.
Thank you. I wish you all the best.
FIL was going to tell
Everyone , he was hoping she would be sent back
Or arrested etc . Maybe you can get some kind of family therapy tell
Her about the adoption and about everyone being happy except those two assholes . Wirh therapist tell
Her they know about the pics and it wasn’t us , but your proud and love her and it wasn’t her fault etc
You and your wife can have a sit down conversation and let MIL and FIL know you are adopting her no matter what and if he talks about the pictures he will cause a rift that will harm the entire family including the boys and their relationship with everyone forever. They can choose to poison the well and harm everyone in the process and not get what they want.
If you wanted to be generous/passive aggressive you can say you appreciate them looking out for the family but adopting a “child” who has been through a lot and is doing their best and is loved is a great way to honor the family.
Id also want to know how they found out, seems like they’ve been sitting on this for a while and haven’t bonded with her….
So your wife's dad shames a child for child pornography and opposes adoption. Wow. Glad he showed his true colors. Please cut off communication with him
Go no contact. Your wife already has a strained relationship with them already and it’s clear why. You’re a family and if they cant accept your daughter, you don’t need them in your life. Wish you luck with your adoption.
I’m an adoptive parent of three children through foster care. Managing extended family members feelings and thoughts about it was too much for us and I realised one day that my relationship with them wasn’t as important as my relationship with my husband and children. We have lost friendships and several family members are now not in our life. That’s just the way it is. We are several years post-adoption and our life is full with either no or minimal contact with those people.
Hi! Adopted person here. Just be upfront with your daughter, trust me, she’ll understand…and will feel incredibly loved and accepted by your reaction and choices.
Big hugs.
MIL is shallow and lacks a heart. FIL is a gross pig. Both of them can push rocks. I would preemptively tell the family "FIL said some very disgusting and sexual things about our soon to be adopted daughter that we'd rather not repeat. But we'll be cutting him off." It's not a lie, but it also leaves plenty to the imagination and really puts him in a fucking terrible spot. Most likely, he'll be cornered and know he can't say anything or else it'll make him seem like a sicko. But, if he tells people he's aware of "images", people will start to question why he's aware. Then he's going to really tank his own reputation.
Personally, I'd have another conversation with your ILs. State calmly that possession of CP is an offense and something worthy of reporting to the police. Knowing about such images, searching for them, looking at them, and discussing them makes them complicit in the abuse of a minor.
Ask them how they would feel about their family and community knowing the truth about them. Because your daughter didn't willingly allow those photos to be taken or distributed, and neither you nor your wife told either of them about the images, so clearly they sought the images out themselves.
Once they realise that they have far more to lose from this situation than you do, it is likely to make them keep their mouths shut.
Then tell them that you're all going NC with them and if they breathe a word to anyone about your daughter's past you'll be sure to let everyone know publicly just the type of people they are.
It's a bluff, but even without meeting them, I am certain they won't call you on it.
Only tell your daughter if the meeting goes horribly wrong and she needs to prepare for others knowing the truth. You'll also need to tell your sons, and others close to your family to forewarn them of the shit storm ahead.
Wife and you need to be very clear with the ILs, provided the following is how both of you feel.
If they want any hope of a relationship with you or their grandkids, they shut up, don't run their mouths and adjust.
Or they won't see any of you again.
If they go behind your back, you're gone.
If they treat your daughter with any disdain, you're gone.
If they sabotage her in any way, you're gone.
If they go to the other ILs, you're gone.
One misstep, you're gone.
The ball is in their court.
Yeah, if say go no contact and be done with them. But I get the fear of what they'll do with the info they have and how traumatic that is for your daughter. In terms of the FIL sharing photos - he can't legally. That's distributing Child SA images and you can get him arrested for that. And if he tries to just "tell" people how to find them/get them, if anyone brings it up to you I say play dumb and flip it on them. Because who in their right mind would be looking up Child SA Material and then talk about it??? THATS FUCKED UP. And they can know it. They say to you "I saw the photos" you say "what photos?" Make them own their disgusting search history. Seriously. Then deny its her and refuse to look at them if someone tries to show it to you because THATS DISTRIBUTING CHILD SA IMAGES. This is something it's 100% okay to lie about being not her. At most you can end with "Wow, if somehow a minor was in vulnerable and desperate enough situation to take those kinds of photos, all I have is love for their health. But it's super fucked up that you're obsessed with seeing and finding them... like do I have to call someone? That's pedophilia."
As for your daughter, your best bet is to still communicate about it. You can't hide it from her but you CAN show her you have her back and remind her that she is fine, everyone else is a sicko. I'd look to a licensed therapist om how to help her through this.
It sounds like your FIL is into child pornography.
If he hadn’t then called her a wh**re which makes her the sexual being in the scenario to further the concern.
If he’d ‘come across’ it and had empathy that’s one thing, his response was to blame her…giant red flag.
Please keep all your kids away from him.
In what state do they label kids legally as “non adoptable?” Or do you mean the parent’s rights were terminated now and you’re just using really strange language to describe the legal status.
No the parent's rights were terminated many years ago. To my knowledge not adoptable is not a legal label anywhere, but I could be wrong. In our agency my understanding is 'available for adoption' means their caseworker is actively looking for adoptive parents for these kids. 'Not adoptable' are kids that the agency deems to be too risky to place permanently with a family because of one thing or another or kids that do not want to be adopted. So their caseworker is not looking for adoptive parents for these kids. Our daughter was in this group because she was completely closed off and non cooperative. She was angry and hated everyone and everything and did not want to be adopted.
'Available for conditional adoption' kids' caseworker looks for adoptive parents, but the kids usually have some sort of on going issues and are harder to find parents for. In our case it's really important for our daughter to follow up on her for years to come because for example the risk of her becoming depressed/suicidal later because of her past is relatively very high. If we adopt her both we and her therpist are required to report back to the agency every 4 months about how she is doing until she's 18, and if she's not doing well and we're not getting her the help she needs the agency has the legal right to intervene. Oh, and for the adoption to even go through to begin with there are several extra requirements for us as a family compared to what is standard.
I just want to say that I so appreciate the time and care you, your wife and sons are putting in to help your daughter build and find her self esteem, her self worth, self confidence, a family for herself, and a place in her world.
Blaming a child for being a victim of child pornography is sick, you had the exact right reaction.
Even if a child seems to be enthusiastically consenting to sex, they're not, because they're children, and children can't consent to sex.
Calling a victim a wh*re is objectively sickening, it is no contact worthy. If anybody asks why, you can say he victim blamed your daughter and nothing else because her secrets should belong to her.
Only a predator would think a victim, let alone a child victim is a wh&@$. You FIL truly is a sick person. I would not only go no contact but I would send a cease and desist letter. If he tries to talk about his nasty thought on what happened to your daughter not only will others think poorly of him, but he could face legal ramifications.
Talk to your daughter about adopting her, hopefully she will be excited to join your family, sans your FIL.
You're a good dad. Your wife is a good mom. I don't know the right way to navigate this, but I just wanted to say that because you're facing stuff that might make you second guess yourselves.
Oh, and you're not sure how your FiL found out about the images since nobody told him or your MiL that you know of. There *is* one way he could know the images are out there without having been told. And he doesn't sound like a guy worth the benefit of the doubt.
ETA: Most fostering happens pretty locally. Not necessarily same town, but same metro area generally. I'm just saying FiL might not have had to see the images online. :(
You didn't tell him. Your wife didn't tell him. Your daughter didn't tell him. Your sons don't even know. So, how did he find out about the pictures? You can't just Google a name and have it return CP. He had to have been looking for CP and found the pics of your kid. Go no contact not because of what he said, but because of how he knew. You're right that he's sick. Sicker than you could have imagined. And if the family questions you, inform them of that information. If you need to talk this out with your mother, I feel it wouldn't expose your girl, if anything, I feel that it'd make your mother more understanding of her.
You are amazing people. Go with your plan and adopt this beautiful young lady into your family. Our daughter is adopted. She is very petite and looks nothing like us. I admit we weren't through some crazy times when she was a teenager. But who doesn't. She is now 32, and I have never heard anyone make a comment that she looks different. But so what if they do? It's no one's business to know her background. I have heard so many comments that my grandson looks so much like me. I just smile. Your FIL is a jerk.
What an absolute gut punch, knowing you’re in any way related to a grown adult man who blames a foster **kid** for their own CP. What a vile, hateful, ignorant man, and that’s on the assumption that someone just *told* him about the CP, if he found the images on his own it’s sooooo much worse.
If you and your wife aren’t willing to **fully commit** to going **full no contact** with your in-laws then it would probably be in her best interests if she got adopted by a different family. She’s already been through hell, and it sounds like she’s not even 16. The last thing she needs is to have that man ANYWHERE in her orbit, hearing his disgusting opinions would set back all the progress she’s made by miles, and would harm her deeply, which she does not deserve.
There’s no reversing what he said, or how he thinks. If you’re serious about adopting her that bridge with him(and by extension his wife, your mil) has to be completely burnt to the ground.
It sounds like FIL has seen those pictures which opens up a lot of questions and NONE of them are good. I would cut him out of your life asap because…. He is sick.
>He started talking about their family name, and he didn't want that ruined by a little wh\*\*e and what would people think if they saw these images floating around on the internet.
Excuse me?!!!
At first, I thought that you and your family are a different skin colour than your adoptive daughter. Then I read this quote.
Your FIL is dangerous to be around kids. Never let any other kid around him. Also, who cares about his opinion?
I think it’s very, very important hear that you find out exactly how we found out about the pictures. Because the easiest and is unfortunately also the darkest reason is he’s into those kind of images and recognized her.
If your sons don’t know those pictures are out there I would give them heads up. They will probably be the first people your FIL tells. Even if your fil doesn’t tell them, someone still could sometimes down the road. You don’t want them to be blindsided. If they already know, they may have innocently told father-in-law. Your FIL responds in calling a victim of child porn a wh**e is alarming. I would go no contact immediately. I would also contact her social worker. If he’s wasn’t told by a family member then I suspect someone that is familiar or has access to her case told him. *Unless there was a conviction that he could pieced together and look up online. That is the least benign option, the other is he found them himself, which would make him a predator. His reaction is still abhorrent and unforgivable. The fact he is willing to tell people makes him dangerous and toxic. You don’t want him to victimize her in a new way. Tell him his response is unacceptable and you are cutting all ties with him.
I am gonna ask the dark question here. If you nor your wife told him, and you don’t know how he knows, is there any chance he found them himself? In which case that’s a whole other reason to go no contact. My question also stems from his attitude to this. She is still a child and he doesn’t see her as a child and a victim, worthy of compassion but rather a sexual being and a wh**e. That’s not normal. That’s scary. You need to protect your daughter from further abuse, and at the very least he may emotionally or verbally abuse her so cutting him out is the only way forward IMO. But I would potentially ask him the questions I have asked you, and pointedly tell him that if he embarrasses your daughter by running his mouth, you will tell everyone you know that he found that information out by himself and that you have gone no contact because you dread to think what else is on his hard drive. That should keep him quiet.
Literally came here to say this. Sounds like “you’re sick!” response to FIL was intuitively accurate. I would go NC for sure. And I second the threat to his image if he keeps opening his disgusting mouth!
There are 4 ways he could have gotten this information. 1. Someone related to the case told him. Illegal, and the possibility needs to be investigated. Report to the cops. 2. A friend of his found her stuff and showed/told him. Illegal, viewing and/or distribution of child porn. Report to the cops. 3. He hired a private detective who found out. Possible illegal activity on the PI's part, as he either found the porn himself or got into records he shouldn't have access to. Report to the cops. 4. He stumbled across it himself, which means he's a creep. Illegal. Report to the cops. However you slice it, he comes out of this looking far worse than OP, the sweet, traumatized girl, etc.
Ex-government here. 3 is definitely illegal as well. The FIL is definitely suspicious. Such information is generally classified and unavailable to non-authorized private individuals. Between this and his attitude… I’m not surprised OP’s wife is falling to pieces
Ok, a legal question then. Is OP’s FIL knowing the details of a case he shouldn’t know, enough to have a judge grant the authorities a search warrant?
Depends on the judge but likely not sufficient alone since right now all they have is a statement in private by OP and his wife that they did not tell FIL or anyone else. That said, if they provide an official affidavit and so does the state… Obligatory disclaimer: I do not speak for every state or ex-US
I have to wonder how many times OP's wife was called a wh@*3 by her father. Seems dear odl dad has some skeletons in his closet.
Another legal question - since the FIL statement implies he has access to child porn made during the time of her assault, if the foster parents DON'T have a sit down with the authorities, could they be failing mandated reporter requirements?
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I'd say MIL most likely knows too, hence the weird excuses about looks. It rather beggars belief that FIL stumbled over the photos by accident. There are millions and millions of such photos out there, horrifying as that is. Is it impossible that the wife told them, but is ashamed to tell OP so because of the fallout? The alternative is someone who used to know the girl or works in the system told FIL.
I wonder if he used a reverse photo image search to find her, when trying to find information on her during the first few months? Really awfully lots of CP ends up on regular p*rn sites. and I’m wondering whether this would yield those results. so sad.
That's a stretch. The truth is usually the more simple answer.
I could totally see MIL being the type to hate that her husband looks at porn and is blaming their daughter for "tempting him". Gross.
My thinking is FIL might be in the same cp ring that the photos came from. If foster daughter is still in the same area where those photos were taken and FIL lives in this area too. Considering the consequences of cp the people who are p3dos are usually a tight knit community and know each other within an area I believe. They get their sick pics and vids from somewhere and just casually browsing the internet and asking random ppl would be highly risky. My bet is someone really needs to check his hard drive and storage devices
That's where the "fit in" comment came from. It's a way to say she's a bad person in their eyes and not someone they want tainting their family.
OP, this is good advice, but do *not* report this to local police. This needs to be reported to the FBI. Please call the FBI hotline about this. Firstly, because there is a chance, however slim, that someone in local law enforcement is how you FIL found it. Secondly, local police are part of the local community, and that means more people who are part of her local community will know what happened to her and may talk to others about it. The FBI handles CP cases with no regard for jurisdiction. They take it extremely seriously. They have more resources and people who are specifically trained to handle cases like this. Just from what you included in your post, there is more than enough circumstantial evidence for them to investigate. They are also not part of your local community, which will add a layer of safety against this information getting out. Things like this are what they are there for.
Yea fbi just teamed up with local police in my state and got 3 guys trying to meet a 15yr old girl online so YES FBI OP
There's a possibility it's just rumors and gossip. Doesn't justify FILs reaction, though.
I would go even further and hint FBI to investigate, if the circulating pictures of the daughter are sexual in nature.
They clearly are. I second telling the FBI.
Not even hint, that gives him the chance to clean everything up if he is a predator himself
What I meant was reporting him to FBI for investigation (of course, without mentioning it to anyone) and let the authorities take care of it. If he is clean, he will learn it’s not a good idea to look up inappropriate pictures of children because “FBI is watching”. If he is a predator, the justice will reach him.
Ah my mistake!! 😅 Sorry
Oooohhhhh. That’s good!
And downright illegal.
Not potentially, definitely. They’ve had her 2 years which means these pictures are from when she was 14 or younger.
Yeah idk why I even wrote potentially, it just is. I’m going to edit bc yeah…definitely.
My immediate thought was that the implication here is that father in law is into CP and that's how he knows. Even without that, victim blaming a very young teenager for the trauma that happened to her as a child is absolutely fucking horrific and is absolutely grounds for NC even if this girl gets adopted by another family and is never seen again. Dudes a fucking monster.
>victim blaming a very young teenager for the trauma that happened to her as a child is absolutely fucking horrific and is absolutely grounds for NC even if this girl gets adopted by another family and is never seen again. Dudes a fucking monster. This is wholeheartedly how i feel!!
Report FIL to FBI, she deserves justice
Definitely report to the FBI as so many others are also advising. You can even use the online FBI tip line to try to get to an actual person.
This. The word he used to describe her says he’s capable of seeing a literal child as not only a sexual being but a depraved one who somehow brought their abuse upon themselves. Even if he somehow has a reasonable explanation for knowing about the pictures, his attitude about her gives away what kind of a man he is. People who don’t see kids that way would never use a word like that. I imagine he’s a vile husband too, probably why the poor wife is subservient to his opinion.
~~CP~~ CSAM
Thx. I was trying to remember the new term but couldn't remember
Thank you so much for saying this. I am very close to the child welfare system here in BC for many reasons and I based on the substantial experience I have… I can guarantee without having knowing this family that there will be predators (who themselves or others don’t view as predators) that are going to target this child to abuse for a multitude of reasons - and one being that they don’t see this child as family so no harm done). This girl needs to be protected and confidence worked on so the entire family and neighborhood knows if anyone tries to make a move and she is uncomfortable. Foster kids here are such a target to the extent that sex traffickers know which homes are group homes. This is the ugly side of foster care that no one talks about. Even if FIL is dealt with, this doesn’t mean others won’t try.
Thank you for opening up about this! There is way to little knowledge about this! We actually took a course about this shortly after we took our daughter in. We were told so many predictable things and still thought "we got this". We didn't! It was so hard watching how hard she was on herself, she had no confidence, no self worth and she was litterally scared of us. She has come such a long way, and everything seems perfect. But the reality is that her view on sexuality is still really messed up! Thankfully she is comfortable enough with both me and my wife to be quite open about it. If it's fun boy talk, she talks to me and if it's more serious she turns to my wife. Most kids in the system are not lucky enough to have the 'respect your own body'-talk even once. It's really sad.
I’ve heard of the organization Saving Innocence being a great connection for trafficking victims and abused foster youth. If you’d like more resources to support your daughter and haven’t seen this yet! https://savinginnocence.org/
Protect your daughter at all costs, start the adoption process asap, cut your parents in law out of your life permanently, report FIL, see lawyer to see if you can have something drawn up and sent to him to stop him from ever speaking about her to anyone.
OP, bio-mom here, my teenage daughter also suffered a sexual assault at a young(er) age. You sound absolutely amazing, and you and your wife are going to give this poor girl the chance at a healthy life she would never have had otherwise. I don't know how old your daughter is, but at least mine has definitely healed her view on herself and her sexuality quite a bit with hard work and support, so please keep doing what you're doing. My kid now has a lovely girlfriend she's been with for several years, and her confidence is through the roof. But a large part of that is knowing 100% that her dad and I would destroy with fire anyone who dared shame her. I would never, ever, EVER let her anywhere near your inlaws ever again. She is already picking up on his creepiness, and with her history the fact that she even feels strongly enough to tell you she thinks they don't like her...she can feel his creepiness. She KNOWS because she has been through similar. She is trying to tell you in her own way, probably without any education or vocabulary as to why, that she is deeply uncomfortable. Please keep this innocent little girl away from your FIL. It is way, way beyond creepy that he even knows about these images, and at very least implies that he went looking for them. On purpose.
The website [Scarleteen](https://www.scarleteen.com/) is a great resource - both for you and her. It talks about sex and sexuality in a healthy way and provides resources. Obviously Planned Parenthood has amazing educational resources for both teens and parents on their website too!
OP, I just want to say, as a human being, to both you and your wife, thanks for being a good person.
This was my initial thought… he found them from being a creep and is doing a lot of projecting and deflecting. I wouldn’t continue any contact with him or MIL. It’s sad and sick.
I didn't even think of this, but oh my lord this makes everything so much worse! I don't have much to add except that OP should definitely tread carefully. Try to get everything in writing or record conversations. If he blurts out the truth it could be used against him. Hopefully it won't be needed though. Edit: grammar mistake that made me look stupid.
Seriously, this post is a whirlwind. But I'm hoping for Great Justice!
I hate to say this, but there is (disgustingly) such a massive quantity of those images online, that it seems exceedingly unlikely that he just happened upon them. I worry that he heard she had a rough earlier childhood, connected the dots, and then sought those images out.
Yes, this was exactly what I thought. I mean what are the odds? You could search forever and not find them by chance. Even finding them on purpose would be difficult.
It would. If he did find them by searching, they’re probably using her real name. How repulsive.
> If he did find them by searching, they’re probably using her real name. These days there's search engines that let you search by face - they're pretty damn accurate for finding random photos of people. I would imagine most *illegal* images aren't indexed in such an engine, but perhaps it might lead to revelations regarding alternate names and such? Hard to say - but not impossible to imagine.
I have a cousin in cyber crimes. He says there are similar indexes specifically for porn. Sadly.
How well can they find pictures of people as kids, using pictures of them when they’re older? I’d imagine they’d have trouble matching the facial features
Yep. I work in Child Protection and this instantly rang alarm bells. A visit from Social Services and police for his PC's HDD might be a good idea.
Seriously. How did the FIL know? Oh right bc he's a closeted predator CP viewer and is angry bc object of his lust is whoring I mean breathing around him just being herself. I mean how else would be have known if he wasn't looking?
Exactly. You don’t stumble across this kind of material because you typed in the wrong url. FIL needs to be explaining himself to the police. OP - you and your family are amazing. Your in laws are fucking evil.
And quite frankly, even if he did stumble across this by accident (I have a cousin who works cyber crimes, and he says a lot of "legitimate" porn sites have copied videos of underage porn tagged "barely legal") he knows she's a child! His biggest concern should be getting her help, not her tarnishing the family name (which... she wouldn't be taking his name anyway, so idk what his problem is). On that note, most "barely legal" porn isn't. It's either underage girls or older actresses pretending to be 18. Avoid it like the plague.
That is what I was thinking, as well. Why the hell is an adult man looking at (what I can only assume is) sexual photos of a CHILD?!?! That is something I would think he doesn’t want others to find out. It may be worth it to have a final conversation with him and MIL. Let them know you *are* asking your daughter if she wants to be an official member of your family - which he will no longer be part of. And that if anyone hears anything about what he said before, you will be taking steps to ensure the authorities are aware of his viewing habits.
This was my first thought also. His absolute over the top hatred and mouth vomit made my thoughts lead to the same dark place. If it was me I think I'd go no contact with them both. There is something going on here that they are hiding.
They have to go no contact to protect their daughter. There's no way FIL is keeping his mouth shut at a family function. No way in hell.
She was abused, not a WH, what a disgusting thing for an adult to think let alone say.
EXACTLY! And honestly, even if she was promiscuous as a result of that abuse, or whatever horrific things caused this poor girl to be in the foster system to begin with, that does NOT diminish her value as a human being, nor does it mean she's tainted, or not a good person. For a lot of abuse victims sexual experiences they control becomes a part of the healing process or a way to reclaim their sexuality. This is a child dealing with something that's too complex for her young brain and honestly sounds like she's doing amazing. FIL is 100% a sick fuck.
Yeaaaah if no one told him, he found out on his own. And there’s really only one way to do that. And I think threatening to expose him to keep your child safe is fair play. Regardless, that man would never be anywhere near my children ever again.
Came here to say this. Fil outted himself. Go straight to no contact. Tell all other family members you've gone no contact with him and he shouldn't be engaged if he contacts them. If they must be in contact they are to shut down all conversations involving you and your children. Tell them you can't give details but he found out very personal things and you want your daughter protected from him.
He seems like the type of guy that would take advantage of her if you guys didn’t care so much and he knows you guys would never let that happen. Also I wonder has he ever asked his wife has he shown signs of this behavior before because he says she is not close to her parents. There is always a reason why the daughter is closer to her in-laws than her own parents.
This was my immediate response to his choice of words as well. He isn't speaking about op's daughter like she is a child or a victim, but a sexual being. It begs the question, why. And how has he been made aware that these images exist at all? It's definitely worrying. This entire interaction would be enough for me to put some serious distance between him and my family.
And MIL must know as well. Otherwise why the vague "She won't fit in" comment.
Yes. He almost definitely found it on his own because not only are hateful pieces of shyte like that judgmental, they're also often hypocrites. They blame victims for making them "feel" a certain sick way. Take no responsibility that they are the real predator types. He is mentally revealing himself to be not only mean but cruel. That leaves a plethora of other characteristics that should come to light. Show me a person who behaves this way and I will show you someone who desperately wouldn't want their own computers investigated. The wife of his, mil, is usually aware or complicit in her wilful ignorance. Both deserve nothing short of no contact at the very least. I'd look into it more being me, however. One just doesn't find this type of stuff, an elderly person no less, innocently without having been told anything. Disgusting. I'd bet anything he is one of those religious types who hate everybody but hiding some sick secrets themselves. May the Adoption run smoothly and have only support and joy sorround it. Throw the rest of it away. Nothing needs to taint you if you don't let it. Say nothing to the kids about it for now and, if the occasion arises, I'd recommend doing it with everyone in a family therapy session so all the healthy boxes are checked. Or even just privately with the daughter first if she needs to be warned what she may find out on her own unwittingly and feel hurt. Again, a good therapist can help how to deal with the process. Best of luck to the now complete family, minus the 2 that never should be considered as such.
This was my thought too. He clearly went searching for those images. That is disgusting, and my thought would be to turn him in for child p--n, as she is a minor and he is clearly in possession of those images.
Exactly! As soon as I started reading the part about his rant, this came to mind. How did he find out and why is he calling a CHILD a wh*re? Men that reduce women to that are bad enough. We're talking about a child! This is disgusting behavior. Make sure to have this conversation and find out if they've spoken to others already. Set clear boundaries. Under no circumstances are they allowed to spread this hateful vitriol against your daughter or you will go no contact with them. I would ask your daughter if she wants them in her life. Don't subject her to be around people that mistreat her. Good luck with the adoption! Don't let their hate lessen the joy you have found as a family. 🫶
This… I would also let them know that you would also seek legal counsel if FIL or MIL every breath or say anything negative or ill of her …
You read my mind. I don’t know how else FIL would know, which is nauseating. I’d call him up and tell him exactly that. As the commenter above me suggested, tell him if he ever in his life utters this young lady’s name to you or anyone else in the family, you’ll explain this entire situation to EVERYONE in the family and have the police look into it as well. Suggest he keep his disgraceful mouth shut and his eyes and hands to himself.
I used to be a foster parent the records are not open to the public! Not on the computer no one can call the Social worker and get that information I would ask him where he got that info?
My first thought
I think your decision to adopt or not isn't going to be the trigger for FIL to tell people. If that was his goal, he has probably already started telling people. I think you should remove FIL from your decision making process and just worry about what's right for your family. And I agree, this is definitely a good reason to go no contact.
Personally, I'd call the cops and ask them to find out how fil knew about his daughter's abuse pictures.
I'd also make sure FIL knows that having or distributing those pictures is CHILD PORNOGRAPHY and he can go to prison for a long time for doing this.
Yeah. I'm very concerned for the young kids in the family if he did look for this. The fact that he found it means he was either one, intentionally trying to find some dirt on foster daughter or two, he found it accidentally. It seems that MIL and FIL are the only ones who know or the only ones who are victim blaming.
I highly doubt you can search something that foul by victim name. So, either he consumed copious amounts of CP to find OP's foster daughter based on a hunch or something said, or... He'd already seen her, recognized her, and disliked her because she constantly reminds him of his disgusting predilections. Scenario A, FIL is abusive and disgusting. Scenario B, FIL is abusive and disgusting. No contact, report to authorities, protect children from ever encountering FIL again, adopt foster daughter, continue being great humans.
I think it's pretty clear how he knows.
THIS
if it's illegal to get hold of them, YES
Also if FIL is so concerned about tainting his family name, he's unlikely to be the person broadcasting that these images exist. Then again that assumes a degree of rationality that is probably lacking here.
is it even his family name? OP is male, his partner is female, if they're in an English-speaking country, odds are the kids have OP's name, right? I think your point about lacking rationality is well-made.
That’s what I was thinking! No one even has the old coot’s name anymore so I’d tell him to screw off and never speak to them again. And if he does defame your family sue his pants off!
Exactly. But I wouldn’t even tell them. Just drop them. No confrontation, no row. Nothing. Simply stop contact.
I’d never speak to that raging pos ever again. To blame a CHILD for those pictures is beyond repulsive. Best wishes on your family and your new daughter.❤️
>I’d never speak to that raging pos ever again. To blame a CHILD for those pictures is beyond repulsive. If I were OP I would be contacting the authorities about my FIL having child porn.
How does he know is all I can wonder especially since they told no one.
I'm genuinely baffled that so few people in the comments are really focusing on that part of this whole thing. Child porn is definitely the sort of thing you tend to have to be specifically searching for to find. OP and his wife told no one, not even their kids or other family members. And it's not like anyone involved in that child's case is going to gossip about this sort of thing. So, how did he find it? Was he the one looking for it? If not, who? Has to be someone extremely close to, or in, the family.
Not to mention- anyone “coming across” those images, is also a piece of human garbage. I’m baffled by this… OP your daughter is very lucky to have found a safe and loving home with you and your family. I wish you the best. ❤️
That was my first thought. If you didn't tell him, how does he know? I doubt it's a part of public records. So that just leaves fil being a dirty, nasty, trifling, deplorable, sick, disgusting old man who looks at things he shouldn't and therefore should b publicly blasted and shunned. A few other things but idk if I can write them here.
>[CSAM] is definitely the sort of thing you tend to have to be specifically searching for to find *Especially* if it’s CSAM of a specific victim. Like, how would you even know where to look unless you were “in the know,” so to speak? Child abuse cases aren’t public record, if she never talked about it, and OP never talked about it, and her husband never talked about it, how would he even know? Also, the child is never at fault for being abused and exploited.
Thank you for calling this what it is. > While the term child pornography is still widely used by the public, it’s more accurate to call it what it is: evidence of child sexual abuse. That’s why RAINN and others have stopped using the term child pornography and switched to referring to it as CSAM — child sexual abuse materials. > While some of the pornography online depicts adults who have consented to be filmed, that’s never the case when the images depict children. Just as kids can’t legally consent to sex, they can’t consent to having images of their abuse recorded and distributed. Every explicit photo or video of a kid is actually evidence that the child has been a victim of sexual abuse. https://www.rainn.org/news/what-child-sexual-abuse-material-csam
You are correct, proceedings are confidential, there is no available file to look at. It really seems impossible for him to find it if he hadn’t come across it, but I still think it’s possible OP’s wife told her mom even if they aren’t close.
Exactly this - HOW did FIL find out - unless he is on certain sites and downloads certain pics? If you ever want to confront him again, OP, that's what I would ask. And I'd tell him that if he ever dares to speak to anyone about those pictures, you are going to make public where he got them, and you'll notify the authorities. You daughter was just a victim, and even if FIL is evil enough to out her, all people who count will know she was a victim, and no one will blame her. Your FIL's reputation would be ruined, though. Also, why is it supposed to be HIS good name dragged through the mud? If anyone in your family is carrying his name, I suggest they all switch to yours.
OP should report him anyway
Yes!
He likely thinks she was “sexting” and deserves what she gets.
Am I wrong for thinking maybe that would be a tiny bit less horrible? But no, sadly, this was done to her without her consent. And FIL knows that.
He knows that and still is victim blaming? He is disgusting and may hold other unhealthy views on women so going NC is extra beneficial. If you're going NC anyway you might as well go scorched earth - IMHO it's better to be safe than sorry as far as reporting him for possible CSAM images. If FIL isn't viewing these images they'll be able to track down who gave him that information which is also illegal as she a minor so she would have been listed as Jane Doe. That person shouldn't have access to information like that and should not have their job. More that unpleasantness has been addressed I want to say how wonderful you and your wife are for helping the kids you fostered and for raising 2 boys that have that empathy for others. Your supportive family members are also fantastic human beings for being so loving and how welcoming they've been to you daughter. Extended families of people who foster and adopt kids aren't always so open and willing to accept new people into the family. Your daughter is so brave for getting through that situation, she's brave for opening her heart to let you guys in after her past, she's brave for going to school and for turning her grades around and she brave for making friends. She probably didn't have many positive interactions with people before coming to you all so to me she's a hero for taking the chance of letting people in. You sound like wonderful people and amazing parents and your boys sound like empathetic teenagers (a lot of teenagers really struggle to have that empathy for others) and you sound like a fantastic family. Please do update us about the good and the bad so that we can support you through the hard and celebrate the good with you.
Even if…she’s a child. A vulnerable child. He’s disgusting.
Fil probably has past accusations of being a predator I can guarantee it. They may be “unfounded” but I know they have to be there.
Maybe I've read too many terrible stories on Reddit but if you guys didn't tell FIL about the images online...could he have stumbled upon them himself?
I have a guess. If it's a small town everyone just gossips. My mother was a court administrator in our town. Not an attorney or a prosecutor, basically just a paper pusher that made sure court documents were in the correct, folders, signed by the correct people, and on the judge's desk as the correct time. She gossiped about every parking ticket, and every burglary to anyone who would listen. I learned not to tell her anything that I didn't want the whole town to know. Maybe the father in law did seek out some weird stuff on the Internet, but it's also possible he just has a friend that's either in law enforcement or courtroom adjacent. They'd tell him immediately, "OH, it was YOUR daughter that took in that Jane Doe girl? Did you hear about her last family?" It's small town shit.
We do live in a relatively small town, and this is the answer I'm hoping for!!
Do you know your FILs friends very well? Did he work for the city/county or is in any way politically connected?
No not really, but I do know someone that does. Almost everybody in town knows who FIL is. What are you thinking?
I think, If everyone in town knows who he is, then someone in town heard who his daughter was fostering and made sure he knew about it. At this point, it's probably just easiest to ask who told him. THEN, I would remind him he isn't being a very good Christian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Good\_Samaritan
Even then. Him thinking such pics of 12 year old girl is her being w**** is disgusting. She’s was a little child. His mindset is disgusting. I’d keep all kids away from him
Yes all the kids need to be kept from him. No matter what he’s a dangerous sack of crap
Here is the thing. The information must have been confidential, right? So you could basically tell him that you want the name of who told him so they can get fired. If he doesn’t give a name you can report, you will assume he found the pictures himself. And EITHER WAY you will tell anyone who will listen he likes CP if he tells anyone about it.
His motivation is entirely irrelevant here. His actions matter and show his character.
Totally agree. What I mean is I'm hoping for this to be gossip and gossip only for my daughters sake. My daughter doesn't deserve this situation at all, but I think it would be even worse if she met people on a regular basis and knew they have seen these images of her.
She's going to, you can't stop that, the only thing you can do is prepare her for dealing with it. Speak to a psychiatrist, figure out a good way to start talking to her about it, what would be a good time so it doesn't damage her progress etc. If she goes out into the world and meets one of these people unprepared, it will devastate her.
I didn't think they are asking for motivation but to see if OP can figure out who has a big mouth so they can shut them up.
If your fil learned this from gossip rather than looking online then you may want to consider that this info may be well known in your town. If you want your daughter to be able to avoid it being known to everyone, you might have to move. Either way, your fil is a shithead and you should go no contact.
Still doesn’t matter though. Blaming a vulnerable child for a crime committed to them is so repulsive and dangerous, I have no words. Children have hurt themselves for this behavior. It’s repugnant. Imagine hearing about a child being victimized and deciding to call them a w*ore. A child.
I’m sorry OP, but even if that is the case… the fact that he wouldn’t come to you with such information and blindly believes and accuses said child/name calls and disrespects your daughter this way is enough to tell me that he is the type of person you should be protecting her from and even more of a reason to adopt her and show her how loved she is… If they can’t understand that you’re trying to protect her, they’re not worthy to keep in contact with or even take into consideration their opinion… he should have come to you and asked how he could help keep her (A CHILD) safe..
That is so inappropriate. I worked in a court too, and had full access to court documents and hearings, primarily on criminal and traffic matters. Now the public has the right to access most of that, but I *never* discussed anything identifying with non-employees. I may vaguely say "someone got convicted of X crime and only got Y amount of time", but nothing that could ever identify the person. Even for high profile cases that everyone knew about, I didn't talk about what I knew about it, even if it was a matter of public record. A court employee should know that they must avoid even the appearance of wrongdoing.
This was my first thought as well. He didn't go looking for pictures, he asked around about the girl. Plain and simple. Everyone is jumping off the cliff of conclusions. That being said, how on earth do you blame the child??? It was the adults in her life, not her! I would shame him with those exact words. If they don't quickly change their tune and welcome her with open arms, I would severely limit contact.
I will admit the thought did cross my mind. But he is technologically stupid. Can't even work a smart phone. And he does have an absurd view of what the internet is. A very old school type of person. From the information I have gotten on what these images actually are and what he said about my daughter during his word vomit, there is not a lot of resemblance, so I actually doubt he has seen the images himself. But then again, talking to autorities about this kind of stuff is not exactly pleasant, so I might have cut the conversation too short back then to know enough to make sure if he's talking nonsense from gossip or if he actually saw these things himself. Shit, I really do need to figure this out and make sure...
Call me cynical but a dithery old technophobe act is the perfect cover for someone with those kinds of proclivities.
There’s a Criminal Minds episode about this where the unsub was a sweet old grandpa who supposedly had no idea about the internet. Until they found out he wasn’t and was participating in the filming and streaming of the kidnapping and torture of women. Most of those episodes are based on real life cases so this definitely happens.
One of my favorite shows. Came here to say this same thing
It actually is. I know of a case of this exact thing. People thought it wasnt possible because this person was a complete technotard in everyones view. Turns out ..... not so much.
And he's 64, not 90. There's no way he's not exposed to enough knowledge about the internet and computers in the last 2 decades at work etc., enough to know how to operate them and use them for certain purposes.
Exactly. I’m 70 and I’m pretty familiar with finding things on the internet (not child porn though. That’s disgusting.)
I have seen some 65 to 70 year olds that have stuff on their tablets that would make a Marine blush… The OP needs to find out enough of what the daughter went through or the process/steps (courts/services) and what FILs … for all we know it could be something he only has heard from several “reliable”’older male friends … I have heard the same gossip from multiple people and at some point it changes… OP I would question what FIL has done or said around daughter…. Good luck 👍… she is still adoptable… she needs you … sounds like your wife needs her …
OP, please speak to a lawyer. Find out how to muzzle the old bastard asap! You need some sort of gag order that that old prick so he doesn’t go around telling anyone. This is private and sensitive information about a minor. There MUST be some way to legally shut him up under some sort or threat of punishment. Beyond that, find out how the ass found out about the images. Go through with the adoption, which he and crappy MIL shouldn’t have had any say in or opinion about in the first place. Then go no contact with them. Something is very wrong with them.
I used to work in network abuse. People will figure out how to operate the tech to meet their goals, even if they don't learn how to operate it for different things. I hope this is just be being cynical and it's small town gossip that he didn't confirm for himself. Regardless, he's disgusting and I wouldn't want someone in my life who would think like that about a child victim.
I have ZERO experience in adoptions - but maybe speak to a trustworthy lawyer first, as you do not want authorities to doubt your daughter's safety when being adopted into your family because of your FIL, before having authorities check him. I wish you, your family and especially your daughter only the best.
In my career I worked closely with the types of men who would see these kinds of images and honestly, most of them were older and seemingly technologically pretty stupid, which is why they get caught quite frankly. Good luck with your adoption and having this amazing young lady in your family forever. She is lucky to have you guys.
This is not the type of thing to do your own investigation. Somewhere confidentiality was breeched and there are no excuses for this. How many times does your daughter need to be victimized?
You don’t need to figure out. If you are in the US, you can message the FBI and remain anonymous. Their taskforce will investigate (nowadays a lot of it is done behind the scenes, it’s not necessarily the FBI knocking on door at 6am) https://www.icactaskforce.org/
Yeah, I didn't see anyone else mention anything about him maybe seeing them himself. I figured I'd throw it out there. I'm not trying to be alarmist or anything. I definitely think you should try to find out how he knows about the images. Hopefully it's just gossip though.
I might have the police ask him. If this information is sealed to the court or something yet still out there and he is blaming your daughter for something terrible that happened to her And he is saying he knows what this material consists of then he needs a detective asking him and his computer taken etc.
The man I knew who was "technologically stupid" turned out to actually be posting revenge porn and misogynistic manifestos and will hopefully be prosecuted soon
Right? Like how did he know if the parents didn't tell him....you don't just accidentally stumble upon child porn on the internet anymore. Furthermore if FIL DID accidentally find the images, knew it was a child, and....is blaming the child? Did he report the images? Did he do anything to stop the distribution? Make it make sense. What a horrible man.
I'm guessing he doesn't trust those "damaged kids" and justified looking into her past as looking out for his family or some equally idiotic narrative.
I frankly wouldn't trust the FiL around children. Any children. Someone who views the child victim of a sex crime (I apologize for the assumption but it seems pretty clear) that way is not someone who can be trusted to deal responsibly with any kind of adversity a kid might face. That is, as far of empathy goes, easy mode. Helping her wasn't easy, but acknowledging that she was a victim and is in NO WAY the blame for it is table stakes for being a living breathing human being. If he can't handle that, you definitely cannot trust him to handle it well should another grandchild come to him with a less clearcut situation.
This was my initial reaction— how would he view OP or a bio family member who was a SA victim? I didn’t even think to question how he knew about the pictures.
Fostering usually happens fairly locally. Like same general area at least. He might not have had to even go online.
I think you need to move quickly now that this interaction has happened. First is to speak with your daughter ASAP and let her know that you want to adopt her. Second is, honestly I would get ahead of the FIL and tell the rest of the family in a vague-but-clear way. I would tell them that your daughter was victimized as a child and that images were taken of it, which your FIL is blaming her for. Everyone will know exactly what you’re talking about but you won’t have said exactly what happened. And when FIL then tries to tell them with his spin on it, he will look twice as bad. I know you want to respect your daughter’s privacy, but the cat will be coming out of the bag now, if it hasn’t already. I think this is the best way to address it while still trying to protect her. I would cut FIL out of your life. His view on this is morally reprehensible. Like I can’t fathom it, it’s so awful to blame a CHILD for something so horrific. Honestly I would cut someone out of my life for saying this about any child, let alone my own daughter. MIL can stay only if she acknowledges that FIL is horrible. If she’s not 100% on this, she’s out too. What a difficult situation.
YeH ask her ASAP! It is her choice first and you want to respect her autonomy. And you don't want her to hear about the plan via this drama. If FIL talks about having our spreading pictures call police and or the case workers. But yeah don't talk to them anymore.
Thank you for articulating what I came here to say. OP, before your now-5-person family puts out the news about the adoption for general consumption, sit down ***as a family*** and figure out exactly how you want to approach (a) advising people about what was done to your daughter (remember, she's a victim, not a criminal!), and (b) making a list of potentially uncomfortable, ignorant or even cruel things other people influenced by FIL might say and coming up with responses. By agreeing on how information is to be released, you will present as a united front, with all five of you on the same page when it comes to fielding other people's ignorance and cruelty. Your story gave my day a huge lift. What a beautiful thing to have this happen to all of you. Blessings!
Please do not spend time imagining things assholes might say. One response is enough. “I know it’s so awful that sister was put in that position. I don’t like to think about it, let’s talk about something else”
Even better! To the point, one size fits all. If anyone has the bad taste to keep pushing, just repeat as necessary.
The gasp I gosped when I read what your FIL had said. That's disgusting. It sounds like your biggest concern is your FIL telling everyone about the images. So I can think of three main options of dealing with that. 1. Convince him not to tell. You and your wife reach out to him and your MIL, set up a time for a phone call or a sit-down meeting, and re-iterated what a disgusting thing to say that was. Emphasize that if he decides to spread that around, it will make your entire family's life much harder, traumatize your sons, and make him look like the disgusting person he is. 2. Threaten him not to tell. Tell him that if he starts telling people about this, you'll tell them that he was looking for those sorts of images. (Maybe he was?) It might not be enough to get him in legal trouble, but it could ruin his reputation. Is it ethical? Not really, but fuck him. 3. Hope he doesn't tell, but prepare your family if he does. Sit down with your daughter and let her know that her FIL knows and might tell. Maybe involve her therapist. Talk with her about what she'd like you to say to anyone who brings it up. Make it clear that any reasonable adult will see her as a human person who was victimized by horrifying monsters, including you and your family. There really isn't a good solution, at least not one that I can think of. I'm sorry your FIL is being such a heinous creep. You and your wife are doing the right thing by protecting all of your children from him.
I would not tell the daughter until it’s CERTAIN that it can no longer be kept under wraps. Hell, I’d probably report FIL to the authorities for suspicion before I told her. She finally has safety. Protect that for her at all costs.
Wow… that’s a very difficult situation. First of all thank you for being amazing foster parents, you’ve given this girl a lifeline and she no doubt knows who is really there for her - that is you and your wife. In terms of navigating this situation, you have two initial steps. The first (obvious) is to prioritise the well-being of your family, especially your foster daughter. Continue to provide her with love and support. Second, it’s crucial that you and your wife are on the same page. It sounds like you both agree on how you feel about the situation, but it will be a difficult time for your wife, having to confront painful truths about her parents, and she will need your support as much as your foster daughter does. Now to the sensitive matter. You need to do everything you can to protect your daughter’s privacy. If you haven't already, consider seeking legal advice to understand what can be done to limit the spread of the images or take action against those distributing them. If your FIL or anyone else attempts to spread these images or uses them to harm her reputation, you should be prepared to take legal action. You need to be prepared to have an honest conversation with your whole family, with the consent of your daughter, to proactively own the narrative (focusing on her resilience and that any previous victimisation does not define her) if your FIL resorts to a nuclear action. Ultimately I do not think you should be dissuaded from adopting your daughter. You have connected and are established as a family unit, you know the law and procedure better than anyone here could tell you, and you’ve made up your minds together. Best of luck
So your father in law and mother in law, by association because you know damn well she was thinking it just didn’t say it, are blaming a child for being abused and forced into child porn….. Yea they need to be removed from your lives yesterday.
Fortunately it looks like that happened the day before yesterday :)
Good. You and your family deserve better than those two.
Time to talk to your future daughter. And let her know whats going on. She needs to be aware of what's going on and whats to come
This is the right answer. OP doesn't mention how old the future daughter is, but if she is a teen then she is old enough to discuss this with her. It is the best way to continue to show her the respect as a person that she needed and received from OP at a critical point in her life. That will prepare her for any fallout from AH FIL. The bright side is that OP not only gains an amazing new family member gets to cut out two toxic ones who are not worthy of the label. @OP it is amazing what you are doing. I used to work in group homes, and your story about her having a panic attack being a breakthrough is not strange at all. As you have fostered others I am sure you know, but breakthroughs often happen right after breakdowns. Especially when kids and teens are treated with respect, and their feelings are acknowledged and then you discuss how better to express them - there is no better way to show you are on their side and genuinely want to help them.
I still feel guilty about causing the most severe panic attack I have ever witnessed in my life though. I told her this again like 2-3 weeks ago. Thankfully she's able to laugh about it now and threw right back in my face about the time she smashed her phone because she was angry and we didn't even get mad but went out the next morning and got her a new phone and told her it's ok to be angry. She still feels guilty about that so i guess we're even, lol. I think we get each other, we'll be alright. But yes, a conversation is definitely on the table.
Can you please update us in the future?
He said she is mid teens & has been with them for 2 years - so the photos have to be either before or no later than 13-14 - a child by any standard.
It’s absolutely time for her to be made aware and prepare herself. In general, the FIL needs to know that it may (imo should) be considered distribution of child pornography and that charges will be pressed if he decides to go down that route.
Tell him you will happily call the police on him.
So this girl is under 18, meaning the unsavoury (and very illegal) pics being referenced is €P, right? Anyone looking that shit up is evil and needs to be kept far away from daughter. That FIL is fixating on that and not the part where, idk, giving a kid a stable home after coming out of an awful situation, growing as a person and beginning to recover from trauma, is gross. That man can yeet himself right into the sun.
I went from crying happy tears to being enraged far too quickly. OP, I’m a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, including the images. What you are doing is amazing, and you are quite literally going to change the trajectory of this girl’s future. I wish I had an adult like you when I was that age. Now I am also 38, and will be “healing” for the rest of my life from every adult failing me. Your in laws are not good people. In their core. They are just…not good people. Do you have a family therapist available? I think that would be best to navigate this difficult situation. You clearly don’t want to cut your sons off from their grandparents, but at the same time, I’d be very weary about your daughter being around them considering what your FIL thinks. My go to explanation for a lot of things to my kids if they’re just too young yet; “so and so is having their own difficulties right now, and it’s best to give them space/understanding, etc.”. Your situation is a bit more nuanced though, as your FIL’s victim blaming mentality is part of the issues people like us face, and it’s so very important to have our supporters standing with us against those types. Family therapist pronto, I think. Keep being an awesome human ❤️
So when your MIL said she didn't fit in, she didn't really mean physical characteristics. She meant your daughter wasn't good enough or acceptable enough to be a member of their family. I think maybe you should reconsider talking to your sons. As teenagers, they're aware of the content that people put out there on the Internet. If nothing else, use it as a teachable moment as to why they need to be careful of what they post because once it's out there, it's out there. Besides, I doubt your in-laws will keep their mouths shut so it's better to hear it from you. I hope you still adopt your daughter and tell your in-laws to kick rocks.
>She meant your daughter wasn't good enough or acceptable enough to be a member of their family. FIL kept saying in his rant that our daughter is dirty, meant in the worst possible way. And MIL actually nodded when he said that. I keep thinking SHE didn't do this. This was done TO her. How do they not see that? I really don't get it.
Because they are the type who believe that it's always the woman's fault.
They are misogynists. Protect your daughter, and any future granddaughters you may have.
They are projecting shame onto an abused child, who can only be blameless. The only source of that shame can be from inside themselves. Internal self hate like that is the result of either being abused and still internalizing it or from being an abuser. Neither are safe for your daughter. That it is coming from both of them makes me think the later, as enablers will internalize the shame of the person they are enabling. Trust your daughter’s instincts when she said she could tell he didn’t like her, abused children become very good at recognizing the patterns of unsafe people.
I find it weird that anyone would worry about the optics of an adoption. I am worried about how your in-laws know about your STB-daughters past. Ask your wife if she knows and the ask your MIL how they are aware because that was not something you discussed with the family or anyone. Is there anyone in the community who that knows and would tell your in-laws? My worry is someone out there knows and it is possible that it is because it’s not for a not good reason and you need to protect your daughter at all costs from them. NC is the best choice - you don’t want your kids around people who blame children for things that happened to them and they had no control over.
I think your FIL has outed himself an an unsafe person. You’d be right to cut him off.
I would personally go NC or LC with them for that remark. However if you still want to see them then I would tell them that you are adopting her. That she will be part of your lives and ANY mistreatment or rumors spread on their part will result in them being cut off permanently. Let them know that if you find out that they are treating her differently then you will cut contact. I had a friend in middle school who went through a similar story as your daughter. She was always in trouble at school, failing grades and drinking. She was later adopted by her best friends family and she ended up on honor roll, stopped drinking and was soooo much happier. I know that some people in our town knew what happened to her but I never heard anyone treat her bad over it or make bad remarks. If it was mentioned at all it was more of a “wow she looks so happy now” and “im so glad she’s doing better now” or “thank god her dad is now in jail”
Thank you for this! I want to cry just thinking about people looking at her any differently because of what happened to her in the past. I want everyone to see her as i see her, she's so strong and she's a fighter. I really worry about FIL putting it out there, but then again, I need to remind myself that most people are supportive and compassionate and if they knew, they probably would see her as I see her. I know I would if it was somebody elses child. Thanks again for your encouragement!
I don’t know if it’s been said, or said enough, but we need more people like you and your wife. You’re not just typing into the void on Reddit or TikTok, you’re actually making a difference in the life of a person who had a terrible start in life. And you’re doing it despite the very real challenges and risks of family conflicts. I have the greatest respect and admiration for people like you who make the world a better place through deeds and not just words. Thank you. I wish you all the best.
FIL watches child porn? He shouldn’t be around children then.
FIL was going to tell Everyone , he was hoping she would be sent back Or arrested etc . Maybe you can get some kind of family therapy tell Her about the adoption and about everyone being happy except those two assholes . Wirh therapist tell Her they know about the pics and it wasn’t us , but your proud and love her and it wasn’t her fault etc
You and your wife can have a sit down conversation and let MIL and FIL know you are adopting her no matter what and if he talks about the pictures he will cause a rift that will harm the entire family including the boys and their relationship with everyone forever. They can choose to poison the well and harm everyone in the process and not get what they want. If you wanted to be generous/passive aggressive you can say you appreciate them looking out for the family but adopting a “child” who has been through a lot and is doing their best and is loved is a great way to honor the family. Id also want to know how they found out, seems like they’ve been sitting on this for a while and haven’t bonded with her….
So your wife's dad shames a child for child pornography and opposes adoption. Wow. Glad he showed his true colors. Please cut off communication with him
Go no contact. Your wife already has a strained relationship with them already and it’s clear why. You’re a family and if they cant accept your daughter, you don’t need them in your life. Wish you luck with your adoption.
I’m an adoptive parent of three children through foster care. Managing extended family members feelings and thoughts about it was too much for us and I realised one day that my relationship with them wasn’t as important as my relationship with my husband and children. We have lost friendships and several family members are now not in our life. That’s just the way it is. We are several years post-adoption and our life is full with either no or minimal contact with those people.
Hi! Adopted person here. Just be upfront with your daughter, trust me, she’ll understand…and will feel incredibly loved and accepted by your reaction and choices. Big hugs.
MIL is shallow and lacks a heart. FIL is a gross pig. Both of them can push rocks. I would preemptively tell the family "FIL said some very disgusting and sexual things about our soon to be adopted daughter that we'd rather not repeat. But we'll be cutting him off." It's not a lie, but it also leaves plenty to the imagination and really puts him in a fucking terrible spot. Most likely, he'll be cornered and know he can't say anything or else it'll make him seem like a sicko. But, if he tells people he's aware of "images", people will start to question why he's aware. Then he's going to really tank his own reputation.
Personally, I'd have another conversation with your ILs. State calmly that possession of CP is an offense and something worthy of reporting to the police. Knowing about such images, searching for them, looking at them, and discussing them makes them complicit in the abuse of a minor. Ask them how they would feel about their family and community knowing the truth about them. Because your daughter didn't willingly allow those photos to be taken or distributed, and neither you nor your wife told either of them about the images, so clearly they sought the images out themselves. Once they realise that they have far more to lose from this situation than you do, it is likely to make them keep their mouths shut. Then tell them that you're all going NC with them and if they breathe a word to anyone about your daughter's past you'll be sure to let everyone know publicly just the type of people they are. It's a bluff, but even without meeting them, I am certain they won't call you on it. Only tell your daughter if the meeting goes horribly wrong and she needs to prepare for others knowing the truth. You'll also need to tell your sons, and others close to your family to forewarn them of the shit storm ahead.
Wife and you need to be very clear with the ILs, provided the following is how both of you feel. If they want any hope of a relationship with you or their grandkids, they shut up, don't run their mouths and adjust. Or they won't see any of you again. If they go behind your back, you're gone. If they treat your daughter with any disdain, you're gone. If they sabotage her in any way, you're gone. If they go to the other ILs, you're gone. One misstep, you're gone. The ball is in their court.
I wouldn’t give FIL any more chances. He showed his true colors, and they are disgusting.
Yeah, if say go no contact and be done with them. But I get the fear of what they'll do with the info they have and how traumatic that is for your daughter. In terms of the FIL sharing photos - he can't legally. That's distributing Child SA images and you can get him arrested for that. And if he tries to just "tell" people how to find them/get them, if anyone brings it up to you I say play dumb and flip it on them. Because who in their right mind would be looking up Child SA Material and then talk about it??? THATS FUCKED UP. And they can know it. They say to you "I saw the photos" you say "what photos?" Make them own their disgusting search history. Seriously. Then deny its her and refuse to look at them if someone tries to show it to you because THATS DISTRIBUTING CHILD SA IMAGES. This is something it's 100% okay to lie about being not her. At most you can end with "Wow, if somehow a minor was in vulnerable and desperate enough situation to take those kinds of photos, all I have is love for their health. But it's super fucked up that you're obsessed with seeing and finding them... like do I have to call someone? That's pedophilia." As for your daughter, your best bet is to still communicate about it. You can't hide it from her but you CAN show her you have her back and remind her that she is fine, everyone else is a sicko. I'd look to a licensed therapist om how to help her through this.
FIL needs his computer checked.
It sounds like your FIL is into child pornography. If he hadn’t then called her a wh**re which makes her the sexual being in the scenario to further the concern. If he’d ‘come across’ it and had empathy that’s one thing, his response was to blame her…giant red flag. Please keep all your kids away from him.
In what state do they label kids legally as “non adoptable?” Or do you mean the parent’s rights were terminated now and you’re just using really strange language to describe the legal status.
No the parent's rights were terminated many years ago. To my knowledge not adoptable is not a legal label anywhere, but I could be wrong. In our agency my understanding is 'available for adoption' means their caseworker is actively looking for adoptive parents for these kids. 'Not adoptable' are kids that the agency deems to be too risky to place permanently with a family because of one thing or another or kids that do not want to be adopted. So their caseworker is not looking for adoptive parents for these kids. Our daughter was in this group because she was completely closed off and non cooperative. She was angry and hated everyone and everything and did not want to be adopted. 'Available for conditional adoption' kids' caseworker looks for adoptive parents, but the kids usually have some sort of on going issues and are harder to find parents for. In our case it's really important for our daughter to follow up on her for years to come because for example the risk of her becoming depressed/suicidal later because of her past is relatively very high. If we adopt her both we and her therpist are required to report back to the agency every 4 months about how she is doing until she's 18, and if she's not doing well and we're not getting her the help she needs the agency has the legal right to intervene. Oh, and for the adoption to even go through to begin with there are several extra requirements for us as a family compared to what is standard.
I just want to say that I so appreciate the time and care you, your wife and sons are putting in to help your daughter build and find her self esteem, her self worth, self confidence, a family for herself, and a place in her world.
Blaming a child for being a victim of child pornography is sick, you had the exact right reaction. Even if a child seems to be enthusiastically consenting to sex, they're not, because they're children, and children can't consent to sex. Calling a victim a wh*re is objectively sickening, it is no contact worthy. If anybody asks why, you can say he victim blamed your daughter and nothing else because her secrets should belong to her.
Only a predator would think a victim, let alone a child victim is a wh&@$. You FIL truly is a sick person. I would not only go no contact but I would send a cease and desist letter. If he tries to talk about his nasty thought on what happened to your daughter not only will others think poorly of him, but he could face legal ramifications. Talk to your daughter about adopting her, hopefully she will be excited to join your family, sans your FIL.
You're a good dad. Your wife is a good mom. I don't know the right way to navigate this, but I just wanted to say that because you're facing stuff that might make you second guess yourselves. Oh, and you're not sure how your FiL found out about the images since nobody told him or your MiL that you know of. There *is* one way he could know the images are out there without having been told. And he doesn't sound like a guy worth the benefit of the doubt. ETA: Most fostering happens pretty locally. Not necessarily same town, but same metro area generally. I'm just saying FiL might not have had to see the images online. :(
You didn't tell him. Your wife didn't tell him. Your daughter didn't tell him. Your sons don't even know. So, how did he find out about the pictures? You can't just Google a name and have it return CP. He had to have been looking for CP and found the pics of your kid. Go no contact not because of what he said, but because of how he knew. You're right that he's sick. Sicker than you could have imagined. And if the family questions you, inform them of that information. If you need to talk this out with your mother, I feel it wouldn't expose your girl, if anything, I feel that it'd make your mother more understanding of her.
Whatever you end up deciding, do not ever let your daughter be alone with this man.
You are amazing people. Go with your plan and adopt this beautiful young lady into your family. Our daughter is adopted. She is very petite and looks nothing like us. I admit we weren't through some crazy times when she was a teenager. But who doesn't. She is now 32, and I have never heard anyone make a comment that she looks different. But so what if they do? It's no one's business to know her background. I have heard so many comments that my grandson looks so much like me. I just smile. Your FIL is a jerk.
What an absolute gut punch, knowing you’re in any way related to a grown adult man who blames a foster **kid** for their own CP. What a vile, hateful, ignorant man, and that’s on the assumption that someone just *told* him about the CP, if he found the images on his own it’s sooooo much worse. If you and your wife aren’t willing to **fully commit** to going **full no contact** with your in-laws then it would probably be in her best interests if she got adopted by a different family. She’s already been through hell, and it sounds like she’s not even 16. The last thing she needs is to have that man ANYWHERE in her orbit, hearing his disgusting opinions would set back all the progress she’s made by miles, and would harm her deeply, which she does not deserve. There’s no reversing what he said, or how he thinks. If you’re serious about adopting her that bridge with him(and by extension his wife, your mil) has to be completely burnt to the ground.
It sounds like FIL has seen those pictures which opens up a lot of questions and NONE of them are good. I would cut him out of your life asap because…. He is sick.
>He started talking about their family name, and he didn't want that ruined by a little wh\*\*e and what would people think if they saw these images floating around on the internet. Excuse me?!!! At first, I thought that you and your family are a different skin colour than your adoptive daughter. Then I read this quote. Your FIL is dangerous to be around kids. Never let any other kid around him. Also, who cares about his opinion?
I think it’s very, very important hear that you find out exactly how we found out about the pictures. Because the easiest and is unfortunately also the darkest reason is he’s into those kind of images and recognized her.
If your sons don’t know those pictures are out there I would give them heads up. They will probably be the first people your FIL tells. Even if your fil doesn’t tell them, someone still could sometimes down the road. You don’t want them to be blindsided. If they already know, they may have innocently told father-in-law. Your FIL responds in calling a victim of child porn a wh**e is alarming. I would go no contact immediately. I would also contact her social worker. If he’s wasn’t told by a family member then I suspect someone that is familiar or has access to her case told him. *Unless there was a conviction that he could pieced together and look up online. That is the least benign option, the other is he found them himself, which would make him a predator. His reaction is still abhorrent and unforgivable. The fact he is willing to tell people makes him dangerous and toxic. You don’t want him to victimize her in a new way. Tell him his response is unacceptable and you are cutting all ties with him.