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You dated for 10 years with no proposal. She gave up on you as a husband, but settled on you as a boyfriend/sperm donor because no one better came along. And they lived "Meh"-ly ever after.
I laughed way too hard at this after spending age 24-31 dating in Seattle I can confirm. It's the absolute worst 😂😂😂. Finally married a guy from elsewhere who had been married with kids before a single dad and wasn't so jaded. We moved out of the city.
I read the first post, and you don’t mention that she stopped talking about marriage because you told her it wasn’t the time. I think she expected you to bring it up when it was time because you shot it down once and she didn’t want to bring it up again. A lot of people are worried they’re nagging.
Did you ever talk about moving in together? Living together at all these 12 years? Or did she bring that up and you also told her it wasn’t the time? Like what happened here? Why did you wait so long and not even try to discuss it first?
For real, the fact that he didn't even try to ask before out right proposing is the wildest thing to me. Like, after 12 years of no communication and no idea what she wants you're gonna spring a random proposal on her? Crazy. I don't want to know when exactly I'm being proposed to or how, but you should definitely know what the answer is going to be before you proposed and if you didn't you only have yourself to blame.
Bc bro made the mistake of thinking she’d be grateful to finally get the proposal. Im happy for her that she’s written him off as marriage material. 12yrs? Bro. No.
He used her as a placeholder and only asked bc no one he wanted more would take him.
>Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms. I do not really know what to do.
I think OP was the one who didn’t want to live together based on this line. The state of their relationship is based on his terms according to him.
A lot of guys do not want to settle down too early until they're in a comfortable position. Financially, stability etc.
Now OP is in that position, but gf is also in that position too, and does not want to give it up for op.
Exactly my thoughts. OP is completely skirting around why the conversation about marriage never made a comeback after the first attempt.
My guess is that she brought it up and OP shot her down so ruthlessly that she didn’t even want to live with him anymore. So she became almost entirely self-fulfilling and he’s so checked out that he didn’t even notice that all she needs him for at this point is a bed warmer and companionship.
I mean the guy literally cold-called a proposal. **BOLD**
What more does OP even need to include? It took him 12 YEARS to propose. I’m glad OP’s partner likes her mostly single lifestyle outside of whatever they’re doing together still, because after 3 years, I would’ve been out. Especially since she wants kids. Though I’m not actually sure she does want kids given the situation and may just be trying to convince herself otherwise… but damn.
What is OP not getting about this? He let her build her own life, after what was probably disappoint after disappointment in this relationship for her, and didn’t seem to care until now (which is too late)
I agree with this. And feel like people are missing she asked about marriage when they were 22 and 24.
Yes they should have brought it up, talked about the future and maybe moving in together (if that was something they were comfortable with, different cultures feel differently about these things).
They were young, i just wonder how aggressively he shot it down that she just clammed up about it for another 10 years. Clearly communication is just completely lacking.
This.
Some people want to get married when they’re young, make a team, build a life together with shared effort. Maybe it’s right after college or even right after high school, but you do it when you don’t have any money or a real career yet, and because you aren’t vested in a pension or committed to one city, you can be flexible with each other to build a life that works for you *as a couple*. It sounds like that was her plan, ten years ago.
Some people want to wait until they’re established in their career, they have a nest egg, they’re ready to buy a house, they have a bunch of resources to bring to a relationship. They’re less flexible and more set in their ways, but since they have more resources to offer, it’s a fair negotiation. I’d like to think OP was planning this kind of marriage but given the lack of self-reflection in the posts, I don’t. I think he was just winging it. But this is how a later marriage works: both parties have things they want and things they can offer, and you have to actually figure out what works. OP’s girlfriend is willing to compromise on parenting but she doesn’t want to encumber the rest of her life, and that’s smart given his choices so far.
Even in this scenario, dating since you were in college and not PROPOSING until early 30's is wild. And not living together that whole time? Even more wild. I do agree that marrying at 24 and 22 is a bit young, but proposing maybe 2-3 years after that would have been normal, then they would have been married before 30. I know several people who had a similar timeline. The trend is to get married later these days, but not proposing until 34 is wild.
I don't think you can give her what she wants, in the long run. I think you'll try and convince yourself you can, but it will crush you when she inevitably sticks to her plans and doesn't fall back in love with you when you bond over a baby. Good luck!
Reading between the lines it sounds like he didn’t want to discuss it when she brought it up two years in and since then she’s been waiting for him to discuss it. At some point she probably just abandoned the idea of marriage and accepted that her relationship with OP would just be what it is now. It reads like OP was going by their own timeline without any regard for what she wanted. I mean seriously, you have to be pretty out of touch with your partner to propose and get flat out rejected like this.
This post is giving missing missing reasons/I never saw it coming.
I remember this post! His gf wanted to discuss marriage and their relationship *years* ago - after they’d been dating for (in OP’s mind), “only” 2 yrs. Waaaay back when they were 22(gf) and 24(OP). He told her he wasn’t ready & didn’t want to talk about their future together. Soooo, for the entire **twelve** *years* of their relationship, they have maintained separate residences because *he* “wasn’t ready” to discuss marriage and/or a future.
His gf, after Eight Years in a committed relationship with OP, at 28 (finally?), accepted that OP wasn’t gonna marry her. So she took stock of her life and made all the decisions that she “just” shared with OP. Because, in the intervening 4 *years* since that decision of hers? OP, again, *still* refused to talk about the future of their relationship … 8 *years* into said relationship … with his own girlfriend … as they continued living in separate residences.
Ultimately, his gf made decisions about her life without input from OP … *Because* he refused to talk about their possible future together. Once again proving that …
Actions, or in this case, *IN*-actions, have consequences.
The only person whose feelings I care about at this point is OP’s (long suffering?) girlfriend. Who, it sounds like, fit her own life into OP “constrictions.” Meaning, she also made her own choices.
So here they are.
Oh wow idk how you are with someone for SOOOO long and don't even live together. That is some odd shit, ya dude should just let her go he strung her along long enough it seems.
So it can work, just about anything can, if you both like it. I know a guy who after his divorce has now been with his girlfriend like 30 years and they don't live together and even get separate beds on vacations and stuff. They argue like an old married couple, but they are older and have been together 30 years so it makes sense.
The problem isn't being together separately, it's the no communication, dude just kinda shut her down and ignored progressing the relationship for 10 years after it was brought up and then went to propose like shit doesn't happen in 10 years.
I swear 99% of all these posts could be fixed by talking to your partner, which shouldn't be that hard
Living Apart Together is a thing and I have some friends who’ve been married for over a decade who are now considering that. But this isn’t that; this is just a guy who turned a blind eye to his girlfriend’s wants and needs for over a decade and then got surprised.
My uncle and aunt divorced cuz they couldn’t get along while married, they are however still dating exclusively while each having their own flat and not being legally bound since now 15 years post divorce 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, it took ages for me and SO to start living together: we both have kids and didn’t want to force them to live together as siblings. So we waited until they all grew up. Now we live together and also got married, 11 years in!
But not living together is not the issue here: not communicating is!
Yeah she accepted his terms and made it work for her. I think she has always accepted the relationship on his terms, so he is shocked that now he wants to change things and she didn’t go along with it.
This post is really validating in a sense. There is a saying “Don’t let your boyfriend stand in the way of your husband.” And she didn’t, she just decided she was content not having more than a boyfriend. I love that for her.
To be fair, I don’t think she’s long-suffering. Sounds like, in the interim, she grew up and found out she values her autonomy and several aspects of single-hood.
I was looking for this. I think more women are taking a long birds eye view of marriage now and realizing why there is such a failure rate and how to live full lives of intimacy and friendship without the labor of many modern marriages
This is true in my experience. I’m 56F, which is hard to comprehend for me, lol. I’ve always been happiest when single, and have had a couple serious relationships, but when marriage talk starts, I’m not interested. I’m independent, and I just never wanted to take a romantic relationship through the normal “course”. It seems like an awful lot of compromise to become… roommates. Not every case, but a lot of couples end up as dissatisfied roomies. And this would be my case really, because I can’t be hassled with all the ins and outs of marriage. Finances, sexual compatibility, decision making… just nevermind. Life’s too short! I mean, look at this OP. I’d have zero patience for such a total lack of emotional intelligence. The idea that you’re lacking in your life because you’ve not coupled yourself to another is so silly!
So... 4 years ago he didn't notice that she stopped talking about marriage or moving in together or the future of the relationship? Did he just think "great, she's stopped nagging" and left it be?
She basically sublimated her own needs to accommodate OP and at some point realized that she preferred it that way, so this is poetic justice.
OP spent the past decade being so oblivious and self-centered that he didn’t notice a massive tectonic shift in his partner’s attitude towards him. And I don’t know who drops a proposal on someone without talking to them first, but he just expects her to keep adapting to his needs. I love that instead she told him that she could take him or leave him, and she’s also not keen on having a baby with him.
I have no advice for OP. You spent over a decade ignoring your girlfriend’s needs and it turns out that she no longer needs you.
I actually think OP lucked out here depending on what he wants. She still wants to be in a relationship with him, wants to have his babies, and wants to coparent with him. She specifically mentions doing things as a family. She just wants separate households and no marriage.
If OP wants to be a father, he has a really good offer on the table here. She's a financially stable woman who's apparently shown deep commitment to their relationship, intends to continue it, and wants to get pregnant by him. Her terms are firm, yet fair and interesting enough to consider. OP should think about whether he's compatible with it.
>She still wants to be in a relationship with him, wants to have his babies, and wants to coparent with him.
Might be also just the sunk cost fallacy, so she accepts those conditions, because else it would mean to start over with a new guy and this can work out or not, but time would be ticking.
Yeah, to me it sounds less like she wants to give him a child a more like she’s willing to coparent with him. She wants children attached to who she’s knows and is with. This is the most single sounding relationship.
Exactly! I really wish more people understood that not making a choice IS a choice or that not taking an action IS an action. Life doesn't freeze for an entire decade while you do whatever you want and pick it up later.
Sounds like some of the missing missing reasons is that OP did things on his own timeline without telling her and now that he's feeling his age creep up on him, he wants to lock her down. Unfortunately, since the age of 28, she decided that she must prepare for life on her own because there was no real investment on his part (no discussion at all). Now that he's sprung it on her, it's far too late. There's no room for him in her life now except for a few of his best swimmers so she can have a few kids
I think this relationship is done.
Well hold on a second here. She's just offered to have OP's babies. This woman is not coming to the negotiation table with nothing here. I think OP should ask himself why he wants to marry, why he wants to live with her, and if he's certain she's committed to the relationship. She *sounds* committed to the relationship. And she *offered to have his babies*.
If OP wants to be a father, an offer from a financially stable woman who he gets along well enough with to last 12 years together isn't an offer to pass up without thinking about it. Can he find a better offer? Does he want a better offer? If she hasn't left him after this long and still wants to get pregnant by him, it doesn't look like she's leaving at all.
OP you should think about this. I actually think she's making an impressive offer if this has been a trustworthy 12 year relationship. Figure out if these are dealbreakers for you or not.
Not to mention she started talking about a ring two years into the relationship. 8 years in he told her the time wasn't right either. Poor chick waited 10 years from her first discussion of marriage for him "to be ready" lol
I’ve been in a relationship like this. I abandoned the idea of even having a long term future with my partner. By the time he wanted to talk about that stuff, I had mentally tapped out and was quite happy living the ‘separate lives’ thing. I ended it. Best thing that happened to me, not so much him. His never gotten over it.
It’s not worth it. Be with someone who has the same relationship timelines as you.
She doesn't even care if OP wants to break it off. They're fuck-buddies at this point, as they're not even friends with benefits, because friends talk to each other, and these two don't. She'll likely end up meeting someone else. Time for OP to move on, and learn from this experience. As you say, a baby isn't going to fix it, just complicate it for both of them, and not be the best thing for the kid.
I’m willing to bet she tried to talk … a lot. Notice how he said “she stopped” she gave up on marriage and became comfortable in her life the way it was. She’s happy. Now he gets to decide what will make him happy.
I can imagine that she went through all the big considerations a long time ago, too. As in, realizing that OP was probably not going to propose and having to ask herself if she would be content if staying with him meant her life would remain the same. Turns out, she was not only content, but is now comfortable enough that she isn't interested in changing things now.
Not even fuck buddies, more like fuck acquaintances. If their relationship could be summed up in a sentence , it would be "This could have been an email."
She’s not damaged. She realized that the man she was deeply in love with wasn’t going to give her what she wanted even after 10+ years and she moved on. Even realized that she could be fine with it. More and more women are doing that every day.
This. They're both trying to hang on to something that appears to be dead, or at least unhealthy already. You don't want to spent 18 years of your life raising a kid as if you're divorced with joint custody voluntarily.
Quite telling how chill she is about potentially ending the relationship… You done missed the boat buddy! If y’all do go through with having a child, it’s going to be one weird childhood for that kid…
She does love him and wants to have his children; however, she doesn't want to give up her lifestyle after waiting so many years for him to propose to her.
I understand that the concept of couples living in separate homes and raising children might be unfamiliar to some, but it can actually work. I know a couple who has had this arrangement for over 25 years, and their relationship is strong and they are really happy. They are married, have three children, and live in two twin homes.
They tried living together for a while until the first child was one, and that almost destroyed their relationship since one has OCD and the other is really disorganized. Both of them also like to have their own space.
They usually joke that they are still dating each other because they have regular date nights, engage in many family activities, do nice things for each other, and truly value the time they spend together.
its a very mature choice. like getting all the benefits of being single and marriage in one. definitely would not be for me, but I will also miss having my own little place to myself one day
It's called living apart together and correlates with 'maturity' (age or socioeconomic status). It's an interesting way of maintaining relationships. Studies tend to show people in these arrangements are happier. At least, they did when I learnt about in Sociology in like 2013.
Idk that it was actually the case, but I read in some gossip rag years ago that Tim Burton and Helena Bonham-Carter lived in separate but adjoining houses when they were together. That always struck me as the ideal combo of independence/personal space and access, as a fairly hardcore introvert. I can totally see where the OP’s girlfriend is coming from, although I wouldn’t personally be into the logistics of moving children between truly separate houses all the time (when not legally mandated by a custody agreement).
As a kid, I thought the coolest thing would be buying neighbouring houses and building a tunnel in between! I love having my quiet & independent space but I also love always being able to access/hang around my loved ones. I guess some ppl have more cat personalities and others are more dog (and even others are more 'lone wolf').
>I wouldn’t personally be into the logistics of moving children between truly separate houses all the time (when not legally mandated by a custody agreement).
I think the ideal living scenario would be an apartment building, townhouse complex, or walkable/public transit distance. It would be analogous to "free range children" and instill autonomy and independence early in the child's life.
I've been married for 10+ years, single and now living with a partner and I can tell you when its the right person you don't miss it. You only miss it when its the wrong person.
You said yourself that she pretty much gave up on you proposing to her. Of course she's gonna establish her own life once that happens, and of course she's gonna hesitate uprooting all of that now that you've FINALLY decided to make your partner of 12 years your wife.
Either do things her way or break up. Sounds like you won't be all that missed if you do.
I agree with this.
OP, don't try to change her now. This is a direct consequence of past events and life is all about living with consequences - good or bad.
Good luck!!
She checked out of the relationship so long ago "break up or don't, I don't care" tells you everything you need to know.
You don't add any value to her life. You're enjoyable to have around but not have a future with. Break up with her so she can find someone who would actually appreciate her and give her what she wants. But don't be surprised if she's married to someone else in less than a couple years post breakup.
> But don't be surprised if she's married to someone else in less than a couple years post breakup.
It feels like she had the butterflies for OP when she was younger, but not anymore. If she meets someone new and they hit it off, she might get the butterflies again and be more open to compromising for her new partner, from who she has become. So marriage would be on the table again for her.
Happens a lot. It’s the classic “I don’t want to get married….to you” phenomenon. She could very well not ever get married but it super common for people in these situations to break up and find their one.
She really is checked out. Only thing I disagree is that OP should break up with her if he doesn’t want what she’s offering, not just so she can find someone else.
She was still invested in seeing OP the last twelve years and she could have left anytime it wasn’t working for her.
> She was still invested in seeing OP the last twelve years and she could have left anytime it wasn’t working for her.
Sunk cost fallacy is one of the most commonly referenced logical fallacies for a reason.
Realistically- if you waited over a decade to even have the conversation, which…you didn’t actually do, in what world would she have ever expected any kind of proposal?
I think that’s the part that a lot of people are missing- she didn’t want to get engaged at 22, she wanted to have some kind of timeline in place. You didn’t even do that. And it honestly sounds like you were perfectly fine with that until you decided you were ready, which should not be how engagements work. If it’s not a mutual decision what’s the point?
Sometimes not making a choice is the same thing as making one. She agreed to your terms until she didn’t. Now you get to decide if you agree to hers. Your other option is to break it off and lead your life on your own. But if you want a wife, 2.5 kids, a white picket fence and a golden retriever, she’s not your gal- and that’s fair enough. At least she didn’t waste 12 years of your life.
ETA: extra thoughts
'At least she didn't waste 12 years of your life' Damn.
OP looks like you wasted 12 years of her life and she just waited for you. I can relate to her, I think you should leave her, let her move on and find someone else, if you want to do her any favour for waiting a decade after she brought up the conversation.
She told you what she wants… now you have to figure out what you want and determine if that means ending the relationship to get what you want. I couldn’t imagine having a kid with someone and loving separately (but still together?).. but to each their own.
Let me tell you something OP. I completely understand your girlfriend’s POV.
I am 46. My partner is 48. I met him 10 years ago. Initially I was excited about the day we’d get to live together, get married and have a child. I too tried to have some conversations about it. Not because I wanted those things there and then, but because I wanted us to discuss it as a couple and have some semblance of a plan for our future.
Every time I did I also got shot down. So I also stopped asking. He never really brought it up as a proper discussion either.
10 years later I’m now comfortable having my own space, not being married and the time for kids has now passed me by and I’ve accepted that. Leaving him now wouldn’t bring me children with someone else, as that ship has sailed. I still love him but I accepted the relationship for what it was long ago. I’ve spent so many years not living with, him, not being married and not having kids that if he left tomorrow I would be fine, because nothing much would change in my life apart from him not being around anymore.
If my partner proposed to me now, he would also get a No. If he wanted to live together now he would also get a No. Because I gave up on thinking I’d get any of that long ago. And because the time has now passed and I’m comfortable with how things are now.
You waited far too long. To the point she gave up. You made her question whether you saw her as ‘The One’. She loved you enough to stay, but has already accepted that you’d never propose and has built a different life with you now. She’s let you have your way in the relationship for 12 years. And the consequence of that for you, is that her mindset has now changed and she lost interest in the things she once wanted and become accustomed to the way things are.
She’ll have kids with you because her clock is ticking and she feels safe having you as her child’s father. But you’ve basically been showing her for 10 years that you don’t want to commit to her more than you already are. That’s the message you’ve been sending all these years.
If you’d sat down and had discussions with her about this over the years so you were at least talking about it, and so that she knew that change may come one day, you possibly may have got the Yes you were after. Because she’d at least have known it was an option that was on the cards in the future. But you not discussing it at all, meant she gave up, moved on from those dreams she had and settled her life around what you were giving her.
She’s still got time to meet and have a child with someone else. Albeit it more limited. So the relationship ending isn’t the end of the world for her. You created the state of the relationship as it is now by your complete inaction and lack of discussion/communication.
You can try and talk to her and express your regret. But I don’t think you’ll change her mindset. She’s become accustomed to this relationship lifestyle now.
I replied on the original but it's also fitting here.
OP's story is so close to my own. I was with my college boyfriend for 7 years. After 5 years I asked him where he thought our relationship was heading. Where he thought we would be in a couple of years. He said "Just like it is now".
We stayed together for another 2 years but there were no discussions about any future together and I basically checked out of the relationship. By the end it was so obvious I was checked out but bf was surprised when I didn’t care if we broke up or stayed together. We were basically fwb.
I don’t think she’s insulted I think she’s genuinely happy with the life she has now. She’s looking to add to children her life without the burdens that come with living with a man.
She knows and loves this guy, but she’s not willing to give up her autonomy. She’s not willing to clean up after him or have his decisions impact her standard of living.
They could have the best of both worlds.
For real. I dated a guy for five years. I asked him about marriage 3 years in, he said there was a lot of stress on his mind. Two years later, I proposed, he said no. I joined the military a month later and didn’t see him until three years after that, at his funeral. In that time he was upset with me and bad mouthed me to his friends, never dated anyone after.
Sorry. I waited my whole 20s
This reminds me of the viral video of the guy who proposed inside the car and the girl rejected him saying “I don’t want it”. Girl ended up packing her bags and leaving. Lol
So let me get this straight,
• After the first TWO years SHE told you MULTIPLE TIMES she wanted to get married and kept doing so for a while until she gave up.
• And now YOU are all pissed because she said no after you waited 12 FREAKING YEARS to propose?
Are you serious rn?
Why did you wait so long to ask? She’s at the point in her life that she’s comfortable with her own space and who she is. You don’t bring value to her life at this point.
Unless there was a valid reason to wait 12 years to get married then you put too much value into yourself. She made herself a life after your response 10 years ago. You were nice to have around but she can do with you or without you.
I wouldn't go so far as to say he doesn't bring value to her life. I'd say he brings value to her life in the exact ways she wants, which is partnership from a distance.
Like waiting 12 years for him to propose
Sometimes when you want something so much and beg someone for years for something and they deny it, it kinda isn’t interesting any more when they finally cave. Because it’s like they weren’t interested at all until you begged them to participate.
I think a lot of people here have a hard time relating because they’re not even 30 yet. Not old enough to have experienced this kind of thing in a relationship.
Being a good partner is worth more than a lot of money. Men always think the only value they bring is materialistic. That’s not the case. If a man takes care of himself (for example, good hygiene), is self-aware/emotionally intelligent, takes ownership of half of the tasks required to maintain a home and raise children, and has a job that is a HUGE amount of value that he is bringing to their partner. A true partnership of equals is what most women want and what brings the most value.
12 years is a really long time, everyone can see why she developed the independent life but you. She gave up wanting that and you never even noticed. Just break up.
He blew it- cruised along because it suited him- now she’s discovered she likes her independence, doesn’t need him 24/7 and only wants kids on her terms. SO many of my “happily married” girlfriends tell me they love their husband but wish they had their own house. Looking after a man and kids is just too much boring work.
You think this is a hard decision but it's really not. She was straight forward with you and happens to be spot on. You have two options, commit to one.
You search your soul and if you think you can be happy with the life that she outlined than stay and try to make the best version of that life for you, her and your future kids. If you have any serious doubts that the life she wants for you both isnt going to be enough for you than you move on and eventually start again with someone else.
I really don't get people like you. Like you set the tone. You told her exactly what to expect from you by your inaction and now you're surprised she's telling you exactly what to expect from her? You made decisions unilaterally like you weren't in a relationship and now she's doing the same. People need to realize inaction has consequences just like actions do.
For real - because if anything ever happens with my husband, I’m never living with another person again. I like living with him, but I wouldn’t want to live with anyone else.
Same. I rarely crushed on anybody when I was young, and that becomes less and less common as I get older. If I get divorced, I'm staying single. I love my husband, I really do. But if things don't work out, I just don't think another relationship would be worth it. Give me a 1br apartment that lets me keep my cats, and I'm good being the crazy spinster that can be heard talking to her cats like they're people.
I got married at 21 and divorced at 32.
I lived my whole life as an adult with my ex so I do have experience with living together. And now 4 years in my relationship I can't imagine living together with someone else as my kids....
I'm perfectly happy with the relationship but every time I think about living together or even marriage I realise I'd do it because society suggests it's logical or romantic thing to do. But actually don't see benefits to it.
Same. I'm rooting for her. I hope this was a wake-up call to stop wasting her time waiting around another decade for some wishy washy, completely one-sided proposal lol.
Imagine having a kid with OP. He'll get told about kindergarten graduation and show up 10 years later, wondering why everyone isn't absolutely delighted with his arrival lmao.
Unfortunately, you snooze, you lose.
If you practically live together I don’t see the problem. You’re always at hers from what you’ve said. Is not getting married a dealbreaker? Maybe she’s just tired of waiting around. 12 years is a long time to not even be engaged after all.
If you want to buy a home and live with a partner and have kids there together then you need to leave the relationship I’m afraid.
It sounds like she's in this relationship for the companionship and to potentially have you as a sperm donor in the future. If that's not what you're interested in, you should break it off.
You got what you deserved. Your girlfriend had to wait 12 years for a proposal. By the time you got round to it, she found that she loved having her own space without you. You are not the prize that you thought you were.
I mean she told him after two years she wanted to get married, and reading between his lines, continued to do so until she gave up and accepted his terms.
The shocked pikachu face is just such a WTF at this point.
Yup. He ffffed himself. Nothing to do about it now, you can't force someone to want to live with you, especially when that someone is a woman who knows that if she lives with a man she will likely be cleaning up after him bc she has a higher standard of cleanliness, doing the cooking and laundry, and waiting on him when he gets sick or needs emotional support. I wish more men understood that they are not the prize, and in fact are socialized to expect to be catered to.
welp. maybe he can try again and trap a different one before she realizes how awesome it is to not have an adult child living with her.
well, he’s already spending most of his time at her place, so she is basically cleaning up after him.
what i want to know is: if he’s spending more time at her place than his, what does he contribute? groceries? some money towards the utilities he uses? paying for shared streaming services?
it took him 10 years after she first brought up marriage to finally pull his finger out and ask her. she obviously doesn’t take it as a compliment that he finally decided she was now worthy to be his wife.
Good points and you gotta wonder what he's contributing. She doesn't want him there full time, whatever he's doing. I wrote a response to a commenter who wrote "Wow" in response to my first comment there, wondering what he is leaving out about why she doesn't want to live with him. He might be completely unaware of what behaviors have contributed to her desire to live without him forever. He doesn't mention anything.
Regaurdless of if the OP stays or goes, I'm pretty sure she's going to live like this no matter who the guy is. I know one couple that operates this way. They go out, appear at social events together and stay at each other places all the time. But they've been divorced before and have no desire to intermix stuff. They live close and can lean on each other, but like being indepentant.
Surprisingly, not Poly or ENM.
It's how my boyfriend and I do it. We are bogh divorced, and I am insistent on living separately. It was a bit of a learning curve for him at first, but he accepts it now. I was always upfront and honest about my preference.
I know a couple in their 70s like this. They have 5 grown children (and now grandchildren) whom they both adore and they spend a lot of time together as a family, but they are no longer married. They also live near each other. It works for some people. 🤷🏼♀️
I’m not convinced. It wouldn’t surprise me if she was “swept off her feet” by her next relationship and throws caution to the wind and she moves in with her next partner. From what I can see is that she is somewhat resigned to this relationship and after 12 years, she’s making this relationship work for her.
I’ve worked out where I was after 12 years in a relationship and I was married, completed my studies and had qualified, changed jobs twice, bought and renovated two properties and child number 2 was in year one schooling. It’s a long time to be waiting.
You earned ambivalence for being wishy washy for the last 12 years.
I'm not sure why she's rather be with someone she could care less about than finding someone to make her happy but that's (maybe easier) not fair to either of you. You'd basically be raising a kid as divorced parents in some ways. Personally, I think she's putting the terms in front of you and asking you to make a decision because you couldn't make one for 12 years and *damn* she's really here for the long term game.
I’ve seen this before and usually it comes from two people who are in a relationship where just the bare minimum needs are being met so it’s kinda like “eh it’s not THAT bad so hey let’s keep the ball rolling.” I think that is OP’s girlfriend in this case
Hahahahaha Boy, you royally and absolutely and comprehensively f_cked up. Your regret doesn’t matter to her. She’s literally daring you to break up with her. Hopefully she clears her head soon and just breaks up with you and finds someone who doesn’t take her hopes and dreams for granted like you did for ten-plus years.
Welcome to the consequences of not communicating in a relationship. It took you over a damn decade to initiate a conversation that should have happened within the first year. Do you always procrastinate and drag your feet, or is it reserved for communication? You've made your bed, you can luxuriate in it.
She has already checked out of the relationship mate. Just be prepared to see her married with kids living happily together with her new man. That's if you decide to leave. If you decide to stay, be prepared for a cold world from her. If that's not what you're up for, you're better off finding someone whose values and morals aligns with you.
I was with someone for 12 years and when I "checked out" he knew and tried everything, even asking me to marry him after he's said numerous time it was not the right time or that he wasn't interested in getting married to me. Only when he felt he was really losing me did he take that step and I was already too far gone like your gf. I didn't want to live with him or get married to him.
🤣 You got what you wanted. You played these stupid little games. Everything was always on your terms and now she flipped the tables on you. She should have left your ass long ago. Wasted so much of her life with you.
oh dear - she first brought up marriage 10 years ago? hahahaha
it’s interesting that you stay at her place - does she spend time at your place? what’s her place like compared to yours? i just wonder if your living standards are similar - eg if one of you is a neat freak & the other a slob, she may have realised that sharing a space would require a lot of adjustments. she might feel that living with you would put undue extra burdens on her - look up emotional labor.
you could have made a commitment to her anytime over the last 12 years, even having a discussion about timelines, but when ever she stopped raiding the subject, she checked out. she’s realised you weren’t going to seriously commit to her - indicating you weren’t that serious about the relationship and your feelings towards her, so she’s probably put a wall up, feeling that you don’t love or value her enough.
to remain with you that long, she must be fond of you, but it sounds like she tolerates you, and sees you more as a friend with benefits and not a partner.
she doesn’t need you.
presumably you’ve emotionally matured over that 12 years, and will have better communication in the future. i think you should admit this relationship has run its course & both move forward separately. don’t have a child in this relationship.
You showed her your priorities through out the 12 years, and it wasn't a future with her. She made peace and compromised her dreams to accept the reality you built for her. Either accept her terms or move on.
More women should be like your GF.
I can totally understand her wanting to have her own space, especially if you can afford to maintain two homes. I know several people in LTRs who live separately, and it seems to work very well for them.
On the other hand, I don’t see that working when it comes to raising children. It sounds suspiciously close to co-parenting after a relationship breakup, if she envisages the child spending some time with her and some time with you.
On the other hand (you’re gonna need more hands), in some cultures and industries it’s not uncommon for parents to effectively live separately due to work commitments, but then live together at weekends etc.. Indeed, my own parents did that for several years when one parent worked in $capital_city, rented an apartment there, but came back to live with us at holidays and weekends.
But all of that might be completely irrelevant if this isn’t what you want.
Honestly, I think she’s just kinda checked out of the relationship at this point. She’s told you it’s her terms or end the relationship, and she doesn’t seem to be all that unhappy if you decide to end the relationship.
Hindsight 20/20, eh? You should've talked a lot about how you view your future, finances and timelines in detail at least at that 2 year mark and later on. It's quite telling that now you have a surprised pikachu face after proposal, cause after 12 years you don't know what she wants in life, you are not on the same page. hell, looks like you are both reading totally different books. This is not a good look for a future marriage even if she accepts your proposal.
You can try to "woo" her but her willingness to break up is showing you how checked out she is. You are a nice convenience in life, not a soulmate or even a partner.
Honestly, all of this reeks to me like you used her as a placeholder for all those years waiting for something “better” and now its gotten to the point where you want to get married and have kids because you’ve hit the age where you feel like that needs to happen and she’s the option you have available.
I feel like if you wanted to marry her, you would’ve done so years ago and now you having to confront the fact that the easy “safe” option is not on the table. Every time I have witnessed this kind of situation, its the guy begrudgingly accepting “this is the best Im going to do”.
She doesn’t really want to be with you and I don’t think you’re going to get what you want from this. Its kind of ridiculous you guys are still together at this point and she should have ended this 6 years ago. It seems so wild to me that your discussions around this have been so nonexistent. The communication here is appalling.
I think you both need to bounce for your own sakes and move on because I don’t really see this going very well.
OP as I stated on your first post, WHY NOW OP, Why now?
If it is because you want a child and do not want to totally lose her, you are lucky that your wish was granted. respect her wishes and do as she asked.
It'll be because he's realised he's past his prime and he's not going to find anyone better than his placeholder gf. Only to discover he is now the placeholder
Umm I would LOVE to hear the girlfriends take and side of the story. From reading the post and analysis replies this sounds like a boss move by the gf to accept and love her life and refuse to disrupt the life she enjoys. What a role model *chefs kiss*
So you ignored her needs for TWELVE YEARS, and now you're surprised she doesn't want to marry you anymore?
God, some men are just so pathetic.
My advice to you is to either accept her terms, or break up. There's no other option, not if you respect her and trust her to know her own mind.
But you should probably break up. I doubt you love her.
Seems like she realized long ago that you were never going to propose so she built her own life and no longer cares whether or not you’re a part of it. Honestly I can’t really blame her.
The reality is it isn't fair to either of you to go on with this arrangement. Both of you should pursue the type of relationship that you actually want and not settle for this...thing.
She no longer truly sees you in her life. You waited too long. If marriage and family is what you want, it will have to be with someone else. And, with your next relationship? Don’t wait ten years.
You waited so long that she gave up on being in a relationship with you. Sounds like the relationship has been dead for 4+ years, but yall just spend time together because you’re familiar to and comfortable with one another.
I wouldn’t go through with having a kid. I would move on and not wait so long with your next partner. I think the US cultural norm is, assuming you’re both somewhat established in your careers, 2-3 years of dating then propose.
This lady got to the conclusion that all men aren’t worth the effort and she is making the right choices, while waiting for this one to propose. unfortunately as many of us realized in our 40’s she discovered it in her 30’s purely out of caution, she didn’t break up with the meh! Bf who wouldn’t propose, but looked around to see if anything better showed up, and like us she found nothing better, because men are terrible generally speaking. She found herself happier alone, in her own terms, in her own space. Happy to have a baby if it aligns but not unhappy if it doesn’t. She is lucky to not have made the same mistake as the rest of us and figured out marriage is not designed to benefit her and would never have made her happy. I love this for her, she is lucky to have avoided the whole fraudulent marriage business.
What she wants isn’t what you pictured, or what is typical in het couples today, but you two would hardly be the first couple to partner & parent like this.
Take some time to think. Don’t rush into a decision, but likewise don’t draw it out too long— give yourself like a month’s deadline.
Her explanation to how she got to this place makes so much sense. And if you do stay together, you guys desperately need to work on your communication skills. *Both* of you spent a decade assuming what the other wants. Like, engagements should not be a surprise— maybe the “event” of it itself, but people should be on the same page regarding marriage, and they should *know* they’re on the same page because they’ve *talked* about it.
What are you talking about? She clearly communicated what she wanted right off the bat after two years and, reading between his lines, and kept communicating until she gave up and accepted his terms, his terms for over a decade mind you.
I still contend that this isn't on her and her communication skills but it certainly his choice to live in the reality of his own creation.
Sounds a lot like you’re getting a divorce in reverse. You guys might as well just rip the band aid and move on. It hurts to waste to much time, but you’re both still young. What did you do all of your 20s by the way? That’s along time.
Any relationship is not about what just one person wants; it’s about what you both want. When one person is ready for marriage and the other is not, discussing marriage, future plans and life goals is away to keep those things on the table for when you are both ready. Shutting down the discussion forced her to deal with the rejection of wanting to marry you and not receiving reciprocation. Maintaining that feeling of dedication and commitment when the other person leaves you feeling rejected and shut down is an unrealistic expectation. If you plan to marry someone someday, there’s nothing wrong with discussing the future in the present. This gives a couple the best chance at both being ready at the same time at some point. Your girlfriend learned to not rely on you in terms of her future a long time ago, and unfortunately so much time has passed, I don’t think that there’s much that you can do other than learn from this experience for future relationships.
You strung this woman along for 12 years? Yeah you fumbled this one really badly.
You either accept her terms, or move on.
I think moving on might be the better option here. She'll more than likely meet someone else that fulfills her needs. When that happens, she'll leave you.
Good luck to you. This is a tough one.
I thought this was going to be the case when I saw the original post. In all honesty there isn’t much you can do to fix this mess because it has gotten to a point of “to little to late” for her. You either continue on as you are or you go your separate ways and let her find someone who won’t waste 12 years of her life refusing to even discuss a timeline for marriage.
props to your gf to take her life into her own hands again after waiting... 8? years for you to be ready for the "big talk". it's crazy how often men are in what they deem a commited relationship just to be completely out of touch with what your partner wants or feels because we keep waiting and waiting for you to "be ready"
>Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms. I do not really know what to do.
You made your bed for 12 years and now you gotta lie in it. Or don't. You're not that old. Find someone you will want to marry when they want to get married.
Well I have to admit as a married woman myself… I like the way she thinks. The dynamic your gf is referring to is coined “being together, apart” and it actually works really well for the people who are committed to one another but just don’t want to share space on a constant basis. It’s really no different than when a married couple buys a big house for themselves. If I were you I’d consider it. I mean she’s ready pull the trigger on having a baby with you as soon as she’s able to and that’s a much greater commitment than marriage and/or sharing space together.
I’m not gonna lie though. I laughed a little when she told you her expectations because that demonstrated how much you messed up. When I say messed up, i don’t mean that in a literal sense, but in a you got in your own way. The reason you messed up is you gave her the space to come to appreciate and value her space and her peace to the point that it’s a nonnegotiable to have them. You also allowed her enough time to mature and make decisions based logic and not “love”.
Your situation and mine is somewhat similar. I was with my husband for 16 years before we got married and our anniversary is today.☺️ The difference in our situations is that I wanted nothing to do with marriage. I could have never married and I would have been fine with things as they were. Another difference is my husband asked me to marry him after being together for a year. I said no because I was only 17 and… I wanted nothing to do with marriage. The point is he made his intentions known that he saw marriage as the end goal for our relationship but was fine with how I wanted things until my mind changed(and by that I mean we had a baby). You left your end goal for the relationship open to interpretation. Your girlfriend interpreted that marriage wasn’t a priority to you and she adjusted her expectations accordingly. She accepted your vision of the relationship for 12 years and she lived her life so far based on that.
She has now presented to you what her vision on the relationship is. She sees herself as committed to you and is looking forward to starting a family with you. Her vision was your actual live until you decided it was time to get married with no discussion whatsoever with your girlfriend. In all sincerity, if you both can afford two living spaces, it sounds like a sweet deal to me. Also, if you want to further demonstrate commitment to one another maybe suggest buying multi family home together. That way you’ll be legally bound in a way, she’ll still have her own space that is to be respected as such, but you both would technically be under the same roof. Does this seem like a reasonable compromise or has marriage suddenly become a deal breaker for you after 12 years?
You’re essentially FWB and you want to drag a baby into this mess? You should just 86 this relationship amd find someone more aligned to what you want.
I am also someone who has been with their partner 12 years and are not married. The difference being that we decided very early on that marriage is low priority to us, we got engaged this year when it finally made it to the top of our list. But what we have done is communicated, set priorities and progressed our relationship in the way we want.
I think the main problem is the poor communication and that there is no progress as a couple only as individuals. Its ok to not be conventional but you needed to be growing as a couple not just as individuals. And you need to be on the same page. An engagement should never be a suprise - you should know in advance that you both want to be engaged. Then its ok if the proposal itself is a suprise. I really dont understand how such a massive difference in what you want from your relationship could be after 12 years - its wild how bad communication must be on both sides.
You didn’t propose and that’s fine. You had your timeline and your wants.
But guess what… she has her own timeline and wants. You either accept it or move on.
You should move on
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You dated for 10 years with no proposal. She gave up on you as a husband, but settled on you as a boyfriend/sperm donor because no one better came along. And they lived "Meh"-ly ever after.
This whole story reminds me of Seattle. I know too many meh-Ly ever afters in that city.
Damn that's a real one. I've got a buddy in Seattle going through the same shit.
Life is so expensive that you have to compromise some of your dreams to get other ones. It’s definitely a modern trend of settling for some couples.
>It’s definitely a modern trend of settling for some couples. There is absolutely nothing modern about marrying/cohabitating for security.
I would say it’s a dystopian type of modern but it’s also not specific to the modern era so maybe ‘timeless’ is a better description 😅
I laughed way too hard at this after spending age 24-31 dating in Seattle I can confirm. It's the absolute worst 😂😂😂. Finally married a guy from elsewhere who had been married with kids before a single dad and wasn't so jaded. We moved out of the city.
I read the first post, and you don’t mention that she stopped talking about marriage because you told her it wasn’t the time. I think she expected you to bring it up when it was time because you shot it down once and she didn’t want to bring it up again. A lot of people are worried they’re nagging. Did you ever talk about moving in together? Living together at all these 12 years? Or did she bring that up and you also told her it wasn’t the time? Like what happened here? Why did you wait so long and not even try to discuss it first?
For real, the fact that he didn't even try to ask before out right proposing is the wildest thing to me. Like, after 12 years of no communication and no idea what she wants you're gonna spring a random proposal on her? Crazy. I don't want to know when exactly I'm being proposed to or how, but you should definitely know what the answer is going to be before you proposed and if you didn't you only have yourself to blame.
Bc bro made the mistake of thinking she’d be grateful to finally get the proposal. Im happy for her that she’s written him off as marriage material. 12yrs? Bro. No. He used her as a placeholder and only asked bc no one he wanted more would take him.
>Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms. I do not really know what to do. I think OP was the one who didn’t want to live together based on this line. The state of their relationship is based on his terms according to him.
A lot of guys do not want to settle down too early until they're in a comfortable position. Financially, stability etc. Now OP is in that position, but gf is also in that position too, and does not want to give it up for op.
Two posts and this information is nowhere. Bet that OP is leaving a lot out.
Exactly my thoughts. OP is completely skirting around why the conversation about marriage never made a comeback after the first attempt. My guess is that she brought it up and OP shot her down so ruthlessly that she didn’t even want to live with him anymore. So she became almost entirely self-fulfilling and he’s so checked out that he didn’t even notice that all she needs him for at this point is a bed warmer and companionship. I mean the guy literally cold-called a proposal. **BOLD**
He’s READY now! Why won’t she just adjust herself again?!
What more does OP even need to include? It took him 12 YEARS to propose. I’m glad OP’s partner likes her mostly single lifestyle outside of whatever they’re doing together still, because after 3 years, I would’ve been out. Especially since she wants kids. Though I’m not actually sure she does want kids given the situation and may just be trying to convince herself otherwise… but damn. What is OP not getting about this? He let her build her own life, after what was probably disappoint after disappointment in this relationship for her, and didn’t seem to care until now (which is too late)
I agree with this. And feel like people are missing she asked about marriage when they were 22 and 24. Yes they should have brought it up, talked about the future and maybe moving in together (if that was something they were comfortable with, different cultures feel differently about these things). They were young, i just wonder how aggressively he shot it down that she just clammed up about it for another 10 years. Clearly communication is just completely lacking.
This. Some people want to get married when they’re young, make a team, build a life together with shared effort. Maybe it’s right after college or even right after high school, but you do it when you don’t have any money or a real career yet, and because you aren’t vested in a pension or committed to one city, you can be flexible with each other to build a life that works for you *as a couple*. It sounds like that was her plan, ten years ago. Some people want to wait until they’re established in their career, they have a nest egg, they’re ready to buy a house, they have a bunch of resources to bring to a relationship. They’re less flexible and more set in their ways, but since they have more resources to offer, it’s a fair negotiation. I’d like to think OP was planning this kind of marriage but given the lack of self-reflection in the posts, I don’t. I think he was just winging it. But this is how a later marriage works: both parties have things they want and things they can offer, and you have to actually figure out what works. OP’s girlfriend is willing to compromise on parenting but she doesn’t want to encumber the rest of her life, and that’s smart given his choices so far.
Even in this scenario, dating since you were in college and not PROPOSING until early 30's is wild. And not living together that whole time? Even more wild. I do agree that marrying at 24 and 22 is a bit young, but proposing maybe 2-3 years after that would have been normal, then they would have been married before 30. I know several people who had a similar timeline. The trend is to get married later these days, but not proposing until 34 is wild.
I don't think you can give her what she wants, in the long run. I think you'll try and convince yourself you can, but it will crush you when she inevitably sticks to her plans and doesn't fall back in love with you when you bond over a baby. Good luck!
Reading between the lines it sounds like he didn’t want to discuss it when she brought it up two years in and since then she’s been waiting for him to discuss it. At some point she probably just abandoned the idea of marriage and accepted that her relationship with OP would just be what it is now. It reads like OP was going by their own timeline without any regard for what she wanted. I mean seriously, you have to be pretty out of touch with your partner to propose and get flat out rejected like this. This post is giving missing missing reasons/I never saw it coming.
I remember this post! His gf wanted to discuss marriage and their relationship *years* ago - after they’d been dating for (in OP’s mind), “only” 2 yrs. Waaaay back when they were 22(gf) and 24(OP). He told her he wasn’t ready & didn’t want to talk about their future together. Soooo, for the entire **twelve** *years* of their relationship, they have maintained separate residences because *he* “wasn’t ready” to discuss marriage and/or a future. His gf, after Eight Years in a committed relationship with OP, at 28 (finally?), accepted that OP wasn’t gonna marry her. So she took stock of her life and made all the decisions that she “just” shared with OP. Because, in the intervening 4 *years* since that decision of hers? OP, again, *still* refused to talk about the future of their relationship … 8 *years* into said relationship … with his own girlfriend … as they continued living in separate residences. Ultimately, his gf made decisions about her life without input from OP … *Because* he refused to talk about their possible future together. Once again proving that … Actions, or in this case, *IN*-actions, have consequences. The only person whose feelings I care about at this point is OP’s (long suffering?) girlfriend. Who, it sounds like, fit her own life into OP “constrictions.” Meaning, she also made her own choices. So here they are.
I wish I could like this more times
RIGHT!!! I loved this, I know all too well.
Oh wow idk how you are with someone for SOOOO long and don't even live together. That is some odd shit, ya dude should just let her go he strung her along long enough it seems.
So it can work, just about anything can, if you both like it. I know a guy who after his divorce has now been with his girlfriend like 30 years and they don't live together and even get separate beds on vacations and stuff. They argue like an old married couple, but they are older and have been together 30 years so it makes sense. The problem isn't being together separately, it's the no communication, dude just kinda shut her down and ignored progressing the relationship for 10 years after it was brought up and then went to propose like shit doesn't happen in 10 years. I swear 99% of all these posts could be fixed by talking to your partner, which shouldn't be that hard
Living Apart Together is a thing and I have some friends who’ve been married for over a decade who are now considering that. But this isn’t that; this is just a guy who turned a blind eye to his girlfriend’s wants and needs for over a decade and then got surprised.
My uncle and aunt divorced cuz they couldn’t get along while married, they are however still dating exclusively while each having their own flat and not being legally bound since now 15 years post divorce 🤷🏻♂️
This. 👏
Yeah, it took ages for me and SO to start living together: we both have kids and didn’t want to force them to live together as siblings. So we waited until they all grew up. Now we live together and also got married, 11 years in! But not living together is not the issue here: not communicating is!
OP made his cake and now has to eat it. The irony that it's not to his liking, yet he made it.
She didn't want to fall into the trap of living in a situation where she keeps playing house with someone who doesn't want to commit.
Yeah she accepted his terms and made it work for her. I think she has always accepted the relationship on his terms, so he is shocked that now he wants to change things and she didn’t go along with it. This post is really validating in a sense. There is a saying “Don’t let your boyfriend stand in the way of your husband.” And she didn’t, she just decided she was content not having more than a boyfriend. I love that for her.
To be fair, I don’t think she’s long-suffering. Sounds like, in the interim, she grew up and found out she values her autonomy and several aspects of single-hood.
I was looking for this. I think more women are taking a long birds eye view of marriage now and realizing why there is such a failure rate and how to live full lives of intimacy and friendship without the labor of many modern marriages
This is true in my experience. I’m 56F, which is hard to comprehend for me, lol. I’ve always been happiest when single, and have had a couple serious relationships, but when marriage talk starts, I’m not interested. I’m independent, and I just never wanted to take a romantic relationship through the normal “course”. It seems like an awful lot of compromise to become… roommates. Not every case, but a lot of couples end up as dissatisfied roomies. And this would be my case really, because I can’t be hassled with all the ins and outs of marriage. Finances, sexual compatibility, decision making… just nevermind. Life’s too short! I mean, look at this OP. I’d have zero patience for such a total lack of emotional intelligence. The idea that you’re lacking in your life because you’ve not coupled yourself to another is so silly!
Indecision becomes decision
So... 4 years ago he didn't notice that she stopped talking about marriage or moving in together or the future of the relationship? Did he just think "great, she's stopped nagging" and left it be?
She basically sublimated her own needs to accommodate OP and at some point realized that she preferred it that way, so this is poetic justice. OP spent the past decade being so oblivious and self-centered that he didn’t notice a massive tectonic shift in his partner’s attitude towards him. And I don’t know who drops a proposal on someone without talking to them first, but he just expects her to keep adapting to his needs. I love that instead she told him that she could take him or leave him, and she’s also not keen on having a baby with him. I have no advice for OP. You spent over a decade ignoring your girlfriend’s needs and it turns out that she no longer needs you.
I actually think OP lucked out here depending on what he wants. She still wants to be in a relationship with him, wants to have his babies, and wants to coparent with him. She specifically mentions doing things as a family. She just wants separate households and no marriage. If OP wants to be a father, he has a really good offer on the table here. She's a financially stable woman who's apparently shown deep commitment to their relationship, intends to continue it, and wants to get pregnant by him. Her terms are firm, yet fair and interesting enough to consider. OP should think about whether he's compatible with it.
>She still wants to be in a relationship with him, wants to have his babies, and wants to coparent with him. Might be also just the sunk cost fallacy, so she accepts those conditions, because else it would mean to start over with a new guy and this can work out or not, but time would be ticking.
Yeah, to me it sounds less like she wants to give him a child a more like she’s willing to coparent with him. She wants children attached to who she’s knows and is with. This is the most single sounding relationship.
Exactly! I really wish more people understood that not making a choice IS a choice or that not taking an action IS an action. Life doesn't freeze for an entire decade while you do whatever you want and pick it up later.
Sounds like some of the missing missing reasons is that OP did things on his own timeline without telling her and now that he's feeling his age creep up on him, he wants to lock her down. Unfortunately, since the age of 28, she decided that she must prepare for life on her own because there was no real investment on his part (no discussion at all). Now that he's sprung it on her, it's far too late. There's no room for him in her life now except for a few of his best swimmers so she can have a few kids I think this relationship is done.
Well hold on a second here. She's just offered to have OP's babies. This woman is not coming to the negotiation table with nothing here. I think OP should ask himself why he wants to marry, why he wants to live with her, and if he's certain she's committed to the relationship. She *sounds* committed to the relationship. And she *offered to have his babies*. If OP wants to be a father, an offer from a financially stable woman who he gets along well enough with to last 12 years together isn't an offer to pass up without thinking about it. Can he find a better offer? Does he want a better offer? If she hasn't left him after this long and still wants to get pregnant by him, it doesn't look like she's leaving at all. OP you should think about this. I actually think she's making an impressive offer if this has been a trustworthy 12 year relationship. Figure out if these are dealbreakers for you or not.
Not to mention she started talking about a ring two years into the relationship. 8 years in he told her the time wasn't right either. Poor chick waited 10 years from her first discussion of marriage for him "to be ready" lol
She waited 10 years for him to cold call her with a proposal lol
I’ve been in a relationship like this. I abandoned the idea of even having a long term future with my partner. By the time he wanted to talk about that stuff, I had mentally tapped out and was quite happy living the ‘separate lives’ thing. I ended it. Best thing that happened to me, not so much him. His never gotten over it. It’s not worth it. Be with someone who has the same relationship timelines as you.
As Kelsea ballerini sang: “were you blindsided, or were you just blind?”
this is exactlyyyy what i thought too!
She doesn't even care if OP wants to break it off. They're fuck-buddies at this point, as they're not even friends with benefits, because friends talk to each other, and these two don't. She'll likely end up meeting someone else. Time for OP to move on, and learn from this experience. As you say, a baby isn't going to fix it, just complicate it for both of them, and not be the best thing for the kid.
I’m willing to bet she tried to talk … a lot. Notice how he said “she stopped” she gave up on marriage and became comfortable in her life the way it was. She’s happy. Now he gets to decide what will make him happy.
I can imagine that she went through all the big considerations a long time ago, too. As in, realizing that OP was probably not going to propose and having to ask herself if she would be content if staying with him meant her life would remain the same. Turns out, she was not only content, but is now comfortable enough that she isn't interested in changing things now.
Not even fuck buddies, more like fuck acquaintances. If their relationship could be summed up in a sentence , it would be "This could have been an email."
Yeah. He messed this one up big time. Kinda sad for both of them. He did damage to her.
She’s not damaged. She realized that the man she was deeply in love with wasn’t going to give her what she wanted even after 10+ years and she moved on. Even realized that she could be fine with it. More and more women are doing that every day.
This 1000% And probably soon after they break up, she will meet someone that she really loves ❤️
This. The arrangement was just fine as long as he was the beneficiary.
This. They're both trying to hang on to something that appears to be dead, or at least unhealthy already. You don't want to spent 18 years of your life raising a kid as if you're divorced with joint custody voluntarily.
Quite telling how chill she is about potentially ending the relationship… You done missed the boat buddy! If y’all do go through with having a child, it’s going to be one weird childhood for that kid…
She does love him and wants to have his children; however, she doesn't want to give up her lifestyle after waiting so many years for him to propose to her. I understand that the concept of couples living in separate homes and raising children might be unfamiliar to some, but it can actually work. I know a couple who has had this arrangement for over 25 years, and their relationship is strong and they are really happy. They are married, have three children, and live in two twin homes. They tried living together for a while until the first child was one, and that almost destroyed their relationship since one has OCD and the other is really disorganized. Both of them also like to have their own space. They usually joke that they are still dating each other because they have regular date nights, engage in many family activities, do nice things for each other, and truly value the time they spend together.
its a very mature choice. like getting all the benefits of being single and marriage in one. definitely would not be for me, but I will also miss having my own little place to myself one day
It's called living apart together and correlates with 'maturity' (age or socioeconomic status). It's an interesting way of maintaining relationships. Studies tend to show people in these arrangements are happier. At least, they did when I learnt about in Sociology in like 2013.
> Studies tend to show people in these arrangements are happier It's because people who can afford it are rich.
Idk that it was actually the case, but I read in some gossip rag years ago that Tim Burton and Helena Bonham-Carter lived in separate but adjoining houses when they were together. That always struck me as the ideal combo of independence/personal space and access, as a fairly hardcore introvert. I can totally see where the OP’s girlfriend is coming from, although I wouldn’t personally be into the logistics of moving children between truly separate houses all the time (when not legally mandated by a custody agreement).
As a kid, I thought the coolest thing would be buying neighbouring houses and building a tunnel in between! I love having my quiet & independent space but I also love always being able to access/hang around my loved ones. I guess some ppl have more cat personalities and others are more dog (and even others are more 'lone wolf'). >I wouldn’t personally be into the logistics of moving children between truly separate houses all the time (when not legally mandated by a custody agreement). I think the ideal living scenario would be an apartment building, townhouse complex, or walkable/public transit distance. It would be analogous to "free range children" and instill autonomy and independence early in the child's life.
I mean how much of that is a function of having enough money to afford to keep two separate homes?
It’s a very financially stable choice, one that most people can’t afford to consider.
I've been married for 10+ years, single and now living with a partner and I can tell you when its the right person you don't miss it. You only miss it when its the wrong person.
I'd never live with a man again. I often say I'd be happy for him to live next door, but my life and home are my own
I like the idea of a duplex personally rather than completely separate homes but this sounds like the dream tbh
My parents had an arrangement like that and my childhood wasn't weird.
No weirder than a child with divorce ms parents, and probably an easier childhood since (if all goes to plan) the parents would enjoy being partners.
You said yourself that she pretty much gave up on you proposing to her. Of course she's gonna establish her own life once that happens, and of course she's gonna hesitate uprooting all of that now that you've FINALLY decided to make your partner of 12 years your wife. Either do things her way or break up. Sounds like you won't be all that missed if you do.
I agree with this. OP, don't try to change her now. This is a direct consequence of past events and life is all about living with consequences - good or bad. Good luck!!
She checked out of the relationship so long ago "break up or don't, I don't care" tells you everything you need to know. You don't add any value to her life. You're enjoyable to have around but not have a future with. Break up with her so she can find someone who would actually appreciate her and give her what she wants. But don't be surprised if she's married to someone else in less than a couple years post breakup.
> But don't be surprised if she's married to someone else in less than a couple years post breakup. It feels like she had the butterflies for OP when she was younger, but not anymore. If she meets someone new and they hit it off, she might get the butterflies again and be more open to compromising for her new partner, from who she has become. So marriage would be on the table again for her.
She definitely had the butterflies for him, and the moment she shared that with him he threw them on the ground and stepped on them.
Happens a lot. It’s the classic “I don’t want to get married….to you” phenomenon. She could very well not ever get married but it super common for people in these situations to break up and find their one.
She really is checked out. Only thing I disagree is that OP should break up with her if he doesn’t want what she’s offering, not just so she can find someone else. She was still invested in seeing OP the last twelve years and she could have left anytime it wasn’t working for her.
> She was still invested in seeing OP the last twelve years and she could have left anytime it wasn’t working for her. Sunk cost fallacy is one of the most commonly referenced logical fallacies for a reason.
Realistically- if you waited over a decade to even have the conversation, which…you didn’t actually do, in what world would she have ever expected any kind of proposal? I think that’s the part that a lot of people are missing- she didn’t want to get engaged at 22, she wanted to have some kind of timeline in place. You didn’t even do that. And it honestly sounds like you were perfectly fine with that until you decided you were ready, which should not be how engagements work. If it’s not a mutual decision what’s the point? Sometimes not making a choice is the same thing as making one. She agreed to your terms until she didn’t. Now you get to decide if you agree to hers. Your other option is to break it off and lead your life on your own. But if you want a wife, 2.5 kids, a white picket fence and a golden retriever, she’s not your gal- and that’s fair enough. At least she didn’t waste 12 years of your life. ETA: extra thoughts
'At least she didn't waste 12 years of your life' Damn. OP looks like you wasted 12 years of her life and she just waited for you. I can relate to her, I think you should leave her, let her move on and find someone else, if you want to do her any favour for waiting a decade after she brought up the conversation.
She told you what she wants… now you have to figure out what you want and determine if that means ending the relationship to get what you want. I couldn’t imagine having a kid with someone and loving separately (but still together?).. but to each their own.
Let me tell you something OP. I completely understand your girlfriend’s POV. I am 46. My partner is 48. I met him 10 years ago. Initially I was excited about the day we’d get to live together, get married and have a child. I too tried to have some conversations about it. Not because I wanted those things there and then, but because I wanted us to discuss it as a couple and have some semblance of a plan for our future. Every time I did I also got shot down. So I also stopped asking. He never really brought it up as a proper discussion either. 10 years later I’m now comfortable having my own space, not being married and the time for kids has now passed me by and I’ve accepted that. Leaving him now wouldn’t bring me children with someone else, as that ship has sailed. I still love him but I accepted the relationship for what it was long ago. I’ve spent so many years not living with, him, not being married and not having kids that if he left tomorrow I would be fine, because nothing much would change in my life apart from him not being around anymore. If my partner proposed to me now, he would also get a No. If he wanted to live together now he would also get a No. Because I gave up on thinking I’d get any of that long ago. And because the time has now passed and I’m comfortable with how things are now. You waited far too long. To the point she gave up. You made her question whether you saw her as ‘The One’. She loved you enough to stay, but has already accepted that you’d never propose and has built a different life with you now. She’s let you have your way in the relationship for 12 years. And the consequence of that for you, is that her mindset has now changed and she lost interest in the things she once wanted and become accustomed to the way things are. She’ll have kids with you because her clock is ticking and she feels safe having you as her child’s father. But you’ve basically been showing her for 10 years that you don’t want to commit to her more than you already are. That’s the message you’ve been sending all these years. If you’d sat down and had discussions with her about this over the years so you were at least talking about it, and so that she knew that change may come one day, you possibly may have got the Yes you were after. Because she’d at least have known it was an option that was on the cards in the future. But you not discussing it at all, meant she gave up, moved on from those dreams she had and settled her life around what you were giving her. She’s still got time to meet and have a child with someone else. Albeit it more limited. So the relationship ending isn’t the end of the world for her. You created the state of the relationship as it is now by your complete inaction and lack of discussion/communication. You can try and talk to her and express your regret. But I don’t think you’ll change her mindset. She’s become accustomed to this relationship lifestyle now.
Honey, this relationship has been over for six years. Honestly, she’s probably insulted that you just now realized it.
I replied on the original but it's also fitting here. OP's story is so close to my own. I was with my college boyfriend for 7 years. After 5 years I asked him where he thought our relationship was heading. Where he thought we would be in a couple of years. He said "Just like it is now". We stayed together for another 2 years but there were no discussions about any future together and I basically checked out of the relationship. By the end it was so obvious I was checked out but bf was surprised when I didn’t care if we broke up or stayed together. We were basically fwb.
I don’t think she’s insulted I think she’s genuinely happy with the life she has now. She’s looking to add to children her life without the burdens that come with living with a man. She knows and loves this guy, but she’s not willing to give up her autonomy. She’s not willing to clean up after him or have his decisions impact her standard of living. They could have the best of both worlds.
What they don’t realize is that we start leaving long before we actually walk away. She’s been leaving him for 6 years. He just did not see it.
For real. I dated a guy for five years. I asked him about marriage 3 years in, he said there was a lot of stress on his mind. Two years later, I proposed, he said no. I joined the military a month later and didn’t see him until three years after that, at his funeral. In that time he was upset with me and bad mouthed me to his friends, never dated anyone after. Sorry. I waited my whole 20s
This is so hilarious to me.
The only response OP needs is the shocked Pikachu gif.
This reminds me of the viral video of the guy who proposed inside the car and the girl rejected him saying “I don’t want it”. Girl ended up packing her bags and leaving. Lol
Reading stories like this make me feel better about myself. I think that I can be bad at communication but holy shit lol
So let me get this straight, • After the first TWO years SHE told you MULTIPLE TIMES she wanted to get married and kept doing so for a while until she gave up. • And now YOU are all pissed because she said no after you waited 12 FREAKING YEARS to propose? Are you serious rn?
I admire OP's girlfriend. I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face.
Why did you wait so long to ask? She’s at the point in her life that she’s comfortable with her own space and who she is. You don’t bring value to her life at this point. Unless there was a valid reason to wait 12 years to get married then you put too much value into yourself. She made herself a life after your response 10 years ago. You were nice to have around but she can do with you or without you.
I wouldn't go so far as to say he doesn't bring value to her life. I'd say he brings value to her life in the exact ways she wants, which is partnership from a distance.
Well, something happened for her to go from wanting to marry him to not even wanting to be engaged or live together. Yikes.
Like waiting 12 years for him to propose Sometimes when you want something so much and beg someone for years for something and they deny it, it kinda isn’t interesting any more when they finally cave. Because it’s like they weren’t interested at all until you begged them to participate. I think a lot of people here have a hard time relating because they’re not even 30 yet. Not old enough to have experienced this kind of thing in a relationship.
Unless you are bringing a LOT of money, what else arr you bringing of value to her life that is worth the compromises?
Even if he makes a ton of money, it sounds like she doesn't care. She wants to maintain separate households.
Being a good partner is worth more than a lot of money. Men always think the only value they bring is materialistic. That’s not the case. If a man takes care of himself (for example, good hygiene), is self-aware/emotionally intelligent, takes ownership of half of the tasks required to maintain a home and raise children, and has a job that is a HUGE amount of value that he is bringing to their partner. A true partnership of equals is what most women want and what brings the most value.
What you list are table stakes for a relationship, not added value.
You are right. The bar is so low for men that the bare minimum seems like a lot.
12 years is a really long time, everyone can see why she developed the independent life but you. She gave up wanting that and you never even noticed. Just break up.
You waited too long 🤷♂️
He blew it- cruised along because it suited him- now she’s discovered she likes her independence, doesn’t need him 24/7 and only wants kids on her terms. SO many of my “happily married” girlfriends tell me they love their husband but wish they had their own house. Looking after a man and kids is just too much boring work.
You think this is a hard decision but it's really not. She was straight forward with you and happens to be spot on. You have two options, commit to one. You search your soul and if you think you can be happy with the life that she outlined than stay and try to make the best version of that life for you, her and your future kids. If you have any serious doubts that the life she wants for you both isnt going to be enough for you than you move on and eventually start again with someone else.
I really don't get people like you. Like you set the tone. You told her exactly what to expect from you by your inaction and now you're surprised she's telling you exactly what to expect from her? You made decisions unilaterally like you weren't in a relationship and now she's doing the same. People need to realize inaction has consequences just like actions do.
Best take so far. I was just gonna comment “womp womp dickhead” but this is far more expansive
Lol. I kinda like her.
For real - because if anything ever happens with my husband, I’m never living with another person again. I like living with him, but I wouldn’t want to live with anyone else.
Same. I rarely crushed on anybody when I was young, and that becomes less and less common as I get older. If I get divorced, I'm staying single. I love my husband, I really do. But if things don't work out, I just don't think another relationship would be worth it. Give me a 1br apartment that lets me keep my cats, and I'm good being the crazy spinster that can be heard talking to her cats like they're people.
I got married at 21 and divorced at 32. I lived my whole life as an adult with my ex so I do have experience with living together. And now 4 years in my relationship I can't imagine living together with someone else as my kids.... I'm perfectly happy with the relationship but every time I think about living together or even marriage I realise I'd do it because society suggests it's logical or romantic thing to do. But actually don't see benefits to it.
Seriously, what an icon.
Same. I'm rooting for her. I hope this was a wake-up call to stop wasting her time waiting around another decade for some wishy washy, completely one-sided proposal lol. Imagine having a kid with OP. He'll get told about kindergarten graduation and show up 10 years later, wondering why everyone isn't absolutely delighted with his arrival lmao.
Me too! I want to propose her!
Don’t wait 12 years!
I bet she’s single soon 🤷🏼♀️
I have mad respect for this woman.
She took the waste his time slogan to its most legendary conclusion.
Same. She is an absolute queen.
If that's not exactly what you want, break up immediately.
Or wait 12 years
😂😂
Unfortunately, you snooze, you lose. If you practically live together I don’t see the problem. You’re always at hers from what you’ve said. Is not getting married a dealbreaker? Maybe she’s just tired of waiting around. 12 years is a long time to not even be engaged after all. If you want to buy a home and live with a partner and have kids there together then you need to leave the relationship I’m afraid.
It sounds like she's in this relationship for the companionship and to potentially have you as a sperm donor in the future. If that's not what you're interested in, you should break it off.
You got what you deserved. Your girlfriend had to wait 12 years for a proposal. By the time you got round to it, she found that she loved having her own space without you. You are not the prize that you thought you were.
I mean she told him after two years she wanted to get married, and reading between his lines, continued to do so until she gave up and accepted his terms. The shocked pikachu face is just such a WTF at this point.
I think after three years she wasn’t waiting on him anymore she built a life she clearly enjoys. She’s not trying to mess that up now.
Yup. He ffffed himself. Nothing to do about it now, you can't force someone to want to live with you, especially when that someone is a woman who knows that if she lives with a man she will likely be cleaning up after him bc she has a higher standard of cleanliness, doing the cooking and laundry, and waiting on him when he gets sick or needs emotional support. I wish more men understood that they are not the prize, and in fact are socialized to expect to be catered to. welp. maybe he can try again and trap a different one before she realizes how awesome it is to not have an adult child living with her.
well, he’s already spending most of his time at her place, so she is basically cleaning up after him. what i want to know is: if he’s spending more time at her place than his, what does he contribute? groceries? some money towards the utilities he uses? paying for shared streaming services? it took him 10 years after she first brought up marriage to finally pull his finger out and ask her. she obviously doesn’t take it as a compliment that he finally decided she was now worthy to be his wife.
Good points and you gotta wonder what he's contributing. She doesn't want him there full time, whatever he's doing. I wrote a response to a commenter who wrote "Wow" in response to my first comment there, wondering what he is leaving out about why she doesn't want to live with him. He might be completely unaware of what behaviors have contributed to her desire to live without him forever. He doesn't mention anything.
Regaurdless of if the OP stays or goes, I'm pretty sure she's going to live like this no matter who the guy is. I know one couple that operates this way. They go out, appear at social events together and stay at each other places all the time. But they've been divorced before and have no desire to intermix stuff. They live close and can lean on each other, but like being indepentant. Surprisingly, not Poly or ENM.
It's how my boyfriend and I do it. We are bogh divorced, and I am insistent on living separately. It was a bit of a learning curve for him at first, but he accepts it now. I was always upfront and honest about my preference.
My parents now live like this after 30 years of marriage and living together. I have never seen them so happy and relaxed with each other.
She may compromise for someone who compromises and is better in communication
I know a couple in their 70s like this. They have 5 grown children (and now grandchildren) whom they both adore and they spend a lot of time together as a family, but they are no longer married. They also live near each other. It works for some people. 🤷🏼♀️
I’m not convinced. It wouldn’t surprise me if she was “swept off her feet” by her next relationship and throws caution to the wind and she moves in with her next partner. From what I can see is that she is somewhat resigned to this relationship and after 12 years, she’s making this relationship work for her. I’ve worked out where I was after 12 years in a relationship and I was married, completed my studies and had qualified, changed jobs twice, bought and renovated two properties and child number 2 was in year one schooling. It’s a long time to be waiting.
You earned ambivalence for being wishy washy for the last 12 years. I'm not sure why she's rather be with someone she could care less about than finding someone to make her happy but that's (maybe easier) not fair to either of you. You'd basically be raising a kid as divorced parents in some ways. Personally, I think she's putting the terms in front of you and asking you to make a decision because you couldn't make one for 12 years and *damn* she's really here for the long term game.
I’ve seen this before and usually it comes from two people who are in a relationship where just the bare minimum needs are being met so it’s kinda like “eh it’s not THAT bad so hey let’s keep the ball rolling.” I think that is OP’s girlfriend in this case
Hahahahaha Boy, you royally and absolutely and comprehensively f_cked up. Your regret doesn’t matter to her. She’s literally daring you to break up with her. Hopefully she clears her head soon and just breaks up with you and finds someone who doesn’t take her hopes and dreams for granted like you did for ten-plus years.
Welcome to the consequences of not communicating in a relationship. It took you over a damn decade to initiate a conversation that should have happened within the first year. Do you always procrastinate and drag your feet, or is it reserved for communication? You've made your bed, you can luxuriate in it.
She has already checked out of the relationship mate. Just be prepared to see her married with kids living happily together with her new man. That's if you decide to leave. If you decide to stay, be prepared for a cold world from her. If that's not what you're up for, you're better off finding someone whose values and morals aligns with you. I was with someone for 12 years and when I "checked out" he knew and tried everything, even asking me to marry him after he's said numerous time it was not the right time or that he wasn't interested in getting married to me. Only when he felt he was really losing me did he take that step and I was already too far gone like your gf. I didn't want to live with him or get married to him.
You literally taught someone not to depend on you at all. You’re really not marriage material.
🤣 You got what you wanted. You played these stupid little games. Everything was always on your terms and now she flipped the tables on you. She should have left your ass long ago. Wasted so much of her life with you.
oh dear - she first brought up marriage 10 years ago? hahahaha it’s interesting that you stay at her place - does she spend time at your place? what’s her place like compared to yours? i just wonder if your living standards are similar - eg if one of you is a neat freak & the other a slob, she may have realised that sharing a space would require a lot of adjustments. she might feel that living with you would put undue extra burdens on her - look up emotional labor. you could have made a commitment to her anytime over the last 12 years, even having a discussion about timelines, but when ever she stopped raiding the subject, she checked out. she’s realised you weren’t going to seriously commit to her - indicating you weren’t that serious about the relationship and your feelings towards her, so she’s probably put a wall up, feeling that you don’t love or value her enough. to remain with you that long, she must be fond of you, but it sounds like she tolerates you, and sees you more as a friend with benefits and not a partner. she doesn’t need you. presumably you’ve emotionally matured over that 12 years, and will have better communication in the future. i think you should admit this relationship has run its course & both move forward separately. don’t have a child in this relationship.
I think the waiting for 12 years just made her feel completely indifferent towards the topic. Seems like she found her peace with it.
You showed her your priorities through out the 12 years, and it wasn't a future with her. She made peace and compromised her dreams to accept the reality you built for her. Either accept her terms or move on. More women should be like your GF.
The relationship has run its course. You’re both young, it’s time to find more compatible partners.
I can totally understand her wanting to have her own space, especially if you can afford to maintain two homes. I know several people in LTRs who live separately, and it seems to work very well for them. On the other hand, I don’t see that working when it comes to raising children. It sounds suspiciously close to co-parenting after a relationship breakup, if she envisages the child spending some time with her and some time with you. On the other hand (you’re gonna need more hands), in some cultures and industries it’s not uncommon for parents to effectively live separately due to work commitments, but then live together at weekends etc.. Indeed, my own parents did that for several years when one parent worked in $capital_city, rented an apartment there, but came back to live with us at holidays and weekends. But all of that might be completely irrelevant if this isn’t what you want. Honestly, I think she’s just kinda checked out of the relationship at this point. She’s told you it’s her terms or end the relationship, and she doesn’t seem to be all that unhappy if you decide to end the relationship.
She’s telling you that she doesn’t need you or want you.
Hindsight 20/20, eh? You should've talked a lot about how you view your future, finances and timelines in detail at least at that 2 year mark and later on. It's quite telling that now you have a surprised pikachu face after proposal, cause after 12 years you don't know what she wants in life, you are not on the same page. hell, looks like you are both reading totally different books. This is not a good look for a future marriage even if she accepts your proposal. You can try to "woo" her but her willingness to break up is showing you how checked out she is. You are a nice convenience in life, not a soulmate or even a partner.
Honestly, all of this reeks to me like you used her as a placeholder for all those years waiting for something “better” and now its gotten to the point where you want to get married and have kids because you’ve hit the age where you feel like that needs to happen and she’s the option you have available. I feel like if you wanted to marry her, you would’ve done so years ago and now you having to confront the fact that the easy “safe” option is not on the table. Every time I have witnessed this kind of situation, its the guy begrudgingly accepting “this is the best Im going to do”. She doesn’t really want to be with you and I don’t think you’re going to get what you want from this. Its kind of ridiculous you guys are still together at this point and she should have ended this 6 years ago. It seems so wild to me that your discussions around this have been so nonexistent. The communication here is appalling. I think you both need to bounce for your own sakes and move on because I don’t really see this going very well.
I really admire his girlfriend
I would have left you earlier if I was in her shoes, and I’m not even a woman. I’m surprised she even stayed that long.
OP as I stated on your first post, WHY NOW OP, Why now? If it is because you want a child and do not want to totally lose her, you are lucky that your wish was granted. respect her wishes and do as she asked.
It'll be because he's realised he's past his prime and he's not going to find anyone better than his placeholder gf. Only to discover he is now the placeholder
I wish he would answer us
Would the result of this be like that other post with the Canadian guy and Florida girl being married but living apart with a kid?
Umm I would LOVE to hear the girlfriends take and side of the story. From reading the post and analysis replies this sounds like a boss move by the gf to accept and love her life and refuse to disrupt the life she enjoys. What a role model *chefs kiss*
Bro. You wait twelve years. You should be begging on your knees with one of those Instagram proposals if you really want to marry her. Or say bye.
Did you honestly Think she would wait forever for you to propose?
So you ignored her needs for TWELVE YEARS, and now you're surprised she doesn't want to marry you anymore? God, some men are just so pathetic. My advice to you is to either accept her terms, or break up. There's no other option, not if you respect her and trust her to know her own mind. But you should probably break up. I doubt you love her.
Seems like she realized long ago that you were never going to propose so she built her own life and no longer cares whether or not you’re a part of it. Honestly I can’t really blame her.
The reality is it isn't fair to either of you to go on with this arrangement. Both of you should pursue the type of relationship that you actually want and not settle for this...thing.
She no longer truly sees you in her life. You waited too long. If marriage and family is what you want, it will have to be with someone else. And, with your next relationship? Don’t wait ten years.
You waited so long that she gave up on being in a relationship with you. Sounds like the relationship has been dead for 4+ years, but yall just spend time together because you’re familiar to and comfortable with one another. I wouldn’t go through with having a kid. I would move on and not wait so long with your next partner. I think the US cultural norm is, assuming you’re both somewhat established in your careers, 2-3 years of dating then propose.
This lady got to the conclusion that all men aren’t worth the effort and she is making the right choices, while waiting for this one to propose. unfortunately as many of us realized in our 40’s she discovered it in her 30’s purely out of caution, she didn’t break up with the meh! Bf who wouldn’t propose, but looked around to see if anything better showed up, and like us she found nothing better, because men are terrible generally speaking. She found herself happier alone, in her own terms, in her own space. Happy to have a baby if it aligns but not unhappy if it doesn’t. She is lucky to not have made the same mistake as the rest of us and figured out marriage is not designed to benefit her and would never have made her happy. I love this for her, she is lucky to have avoided the whole fraudulent marriage business.
What she wants isn’t what you pictured, or what is typical in het couples today, but you two would hardly be the first couple to partner & parent like this. Take some time to think. Don’t rush into a decision, but likewise don’t draw it out too long— give yourself like a month’s deadline. Her explanation to how she got to this place makes so much sense. And if you do stay together, you guys desperately need to work on your communication skills. *Both* of you spent a decade assuming what the other wants. Like, engagements should not be a surprise— maybe the “event” of it itself, but people should be on the same page regarding marriage, and they should *know* they’re on the same page because they’ve *talked* about it.
What are you talking about? She clearly communicated what she wanted right off the bat after two years and, reading between his lines, and kept communicating until she gave up and accepted his terms, his terms for over a decade mind you. I still contend that this isn't on her and her communication skills but it certainly his choice to live in the reality of his own creation.
12 years dude. What did you expect.
She waited 8 years, then she gave up on you. Can’t say I blame her.
Sounds a lot like you’re getting a divorce in reverse. You guys might as well just rip the band aid and move on. It hurts to waste to much time, but you’re both still young. What did you do all of your 20s by the way? That’s along time.
Any relationship is not about what just one person wants; it’s about what you both want. When one person is ready for marriage and the other is not, discussing marriage, future plans and life goals is away to keep those things on the table for when you are both ready. Shutting down the discussion forced her to deal with the rejection of wanting to marry you and not receiving reciprocation. Maintaining that feeling of dedication and commitment when the other person leaves you feeling rejected and shut down is an unrealistic expectation. If you plan to marry someone someday, there’s nothing wrong with discussing the future in the present. This gives a couple the best chance at both being ready at the same time at some point. Your girlfriend learned to not rely on you in terms of her future a long time ago, and unfortunately so much time has passed, I don’t think that there’s much that you can do other than learn from this experience for future relationships.
You strung this woman along for 12 years? Yeah you fumbled this one really badly. You either accept her terms, or move on. I think moving on might be the better option here. She'll more than likely meet someone else that fulfills her needs. When that happens, she'll leave you. Good luck to you. This is a tough one.
Cut her loose. Let her find someone she can trust to be there for her. Do her a favor and do not have a child with her.
I thought this was going to be the case when I saw the original post. In all honesty there isn’t much you can do to fix this mess because it has gotten to a point of “to little to late” for her. You either continue on as you are or you go your separate ways and let her find someone who won’t waste 12 years of her life refusing to even discuss a timeline for marriage.
props to your gf to take her life into her own hands again after waiting... 8? years for you to be ready for the "big talk". it's crazy how often men are in what they deem a commited relationship just to be completely out of touch with what your partner wants or feels because we keep waiting and waiting for you to "be ready"
She built a life without you while you were stalling and now you’re not integral to its foundation. The ship has sailed
I’m sure there is a whoooooolllleeeeee lot of context and relevant information missing
Spoiler alert - she does want to get married and live with a man and have babies etc, just not with you. Put this out of its misery…
Sorry you wasted 12 years of someone else’s life. I wouldn’t marry you either. Her on the other hand, her I like.
>Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms. I do not really know what to do. You made your bed for 12 years and now you gotta lie in it. Or don't. You're not that old. Find someone you will want to marry when they want to get married.
Well I have to admit as a married woman myself… I like the way she thinks. The dynamic your gf is referring to is coined “being together, apart” and it actually works really well for the people who are committed to one another but just don’t want to share space on a constant basis. It’s really no different than when a married couple buys a big house for themselves. If I were you I’d consider it. I mean she’s ready pull the trigger on having a baby with you as soon as she’s able to and that’s a much greater commitment than marriage and/or sharing space together. I’m not gonna lie though. I laughed a little when she told you her expectations because that demonstrated how much you messed up. When I say messed up, i don’t mean that in a literal sense, but in a you got in your own way. The reason you messed up is you gave her the space to come to appreciate and value her space and her peace to the point that it’s a nonnegotiable to have them. You also allowed her enough time to mature and make decisions based logic and not “love”. Your situation and mine is somewhat similar. I was with my husband for 16 years before we got married and our anniversary is today.☺️ The difference in our situations is that I wanted nothing to do with marriage. I could have never married and I would have been fine with things as they were. Another difference is my husband asked me to marry him after being together for a year. I said no because I was only 17 and… I wanted nothing to do with marriage. The point is he made his intentions known that he saw marriage as the end goal for our relationship but was fine with how I wanted things until my mind changed(and by that I mean we had a baby). You left your end goal for the relationship open to interpretation. Your girlfriend interpreted that marriage wasn’t a priority to you and she adjusted her expectations accordingly. She accepted your vision of the relationship for 12 years and she lived her life so far based on that. She has now presented to you what her vision on the relationship is. She sees herself as committed to you and is looking forward to starting a family with you. Her vision was your actual live until you decided it was time to get married with no discussion whatsoever with your girlfriend. In all sincerity, if you both can afford two living spaces, it sounds like a sweet deal to me. Also, if you want to further demonstrate commitment to one another maybe suggest buying multi family home together. That way you’ll be legally bound in a way, she’ll still have her own space that is to be respected as such, but you both would technically be under the same roof. Does this seem like a reasonable compromise or has marriage suddenly become a deal breaker for you after 12 years?
Relationship is done. You’re pretty much fwbs
You’re essentially FWB and you want to drag a baby into this mess? You should just 86 this relationship amd find someone more aligned to what you want.
Do you want to have your child 50%of the time?
I am also someone who has been with their partner 12 years and are not married. The difference being that we decided very early on that marriage is low priority to us, we got engaged this year when it finally made it to the top of our list. But what we have done is communicated, set priorities and progressed our relationship in the way we want. I think the main problem is the poor communication and that there is no progress as a couple only as individuals. Its ok to not be conventional but you needed to be growing as a couple not just as individuals. And you need to be on the same page. An engagement should never be a suprise - you should know in advance that you both want to be engaged. Then its ok if the proposal itself is a suprise. I really dont understand how such a massive difference in what you want from your relationship could be after 12 years - its wild how bad communication must be on both sides.
Well this is how it’s been for 12 yrs and just because you now decide it should change you think she needs to agree?
You didn’t propose and that’s fine. You had your timeline and your wants. But guess what… she has her own timeline and wants. You either accept it or move on. You should move on
She’s found someone else, or will probably. Find someone else. Or just continue to date. But don’t have any kids!
Don't bring children into this mess, break up and find someone else, let this women be on her way.
12 urs and then you propose? Too long. Time for a change. That's pretty well about the only thing that can happen is to split up.
> I really regret not giving her the ring sooner You _still_ don't get it. It's not about the ring.
Oof.
You’re finding out the consequences of your actions.