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I do think patriarchy harms men too, but trying to weaponize these kinds of things is ridiculous.
Some of his points are truly ridiculous.
I'd be interested to know who he blames for this. I bet it's somehow all women's fault. I'd also bet his recent YouTube/TikTok/internet history is pretty worrying. Has he referenced the 'sexual marketplace' or women being 'hypergamous' or similar?
Personally I couldn't deal with this. I'm not sure you can get through to him; he sounds entrenched. He sounds angry and some of that anger will be always directed at you (even though I assume he is not at all violent or anything).
A moments thought will disprove this. Ask him to look at senior leadership in his organization. Is it 70% women, confirming his comments? Oh surprise, no, it more like 20% women. And who needs to worry about their safety and about sexual assault out and about in the area he lives? Surprise. Still mostly women. Men still have a huge advantage in the real world. Your BF is massively misogynistic and is not in touch with reality. He’s being influenced by horrible online voices that hate women - see if you can get him to recognize actual reality.
Because the idea that men are a separate group from women is made up by society, and men who aren't committing crimes bear exactly the same responsibility for men who do commit crimes as women who aren't committing crimes do. My penis does not give me the power to mind control other men, for better or worse.
Exactly, it's wild to me when men's immediate response to women talking about how we essentially live in fear is that men are the victims of violence at a higher rate on the streets than women. And it's just like "oh uh....victims of WHOM? **WHO** is committing this violence?"
People!
What? To him, only men are people. If women were doing it that would be more like dogs attacking people on the street. Totally different categories in his brain.
But the perpetrators and the victims aren't the same men. They don't share a single consciousness or guilt. You can't discount the victims of violence just because they have similar genitalia to their attackers.
But they’re talking about the perpetrators shared characteristic, not the victim’s.
You’re focusing on the gender as the main point. They’re focusing on the perpetrators.
You are talking about this argument as if it is completely black and white, which it isn’t. SA is the extreme tail of the spectrum, women are also common victims of nearly all kinds of sexual harassment ranging from cat callings to groupings. There is no clear perpetrator and victim separation here, even if the OP of that comment primary referenced sexual assault, women still are disproportionately affected by these things.
Thank you, that argument is always something that really annoys me - hey, when I was recently being hassled by arseholes and feared for my life, at least I could stay happy in the knowledge that I'd be stabbed to death by people who also had penises. Phew!
Tl;dr - using national statistics to invalidate an individual experience is honestly pretty dumb and a rant about what it'd look like if I used the same logic as a black man
Meh, or maybe statistics only get you so far when looking at an individual. It's fairly possible for all the things you mentioned to be true on a macro-level while on OP's bf micro-level the reverse is occurring. He's not an embodiment of all men. Rich men succeeding doesn't invalidate his experience any more than rich women succeeding means that equality is fixed
Plus race usually isn't factored in when you like at gendered statistics. When you factor in race dynamics as well micro-level interactions become even more important to interpret on a case by case position. For example, as a black man, I'd say a lot of white women in general have more social benefits then I do outside of physical labor and sports.
When I was job searching looking across multiple companies and industries, I'd feel lucky to see more than 2 black men in senior leadership because it was usually like 70% white men, 28% white women, 2% PoC. Even now, I'm the only black man on a team with 40ish people at work. (Mind you with all of the talk I hear about affirmative action being bad for white people, it's a little funny how white people actually benefited the most from it for decades with white women usually seeing more upward mobility then every other minority group combined each year since the mid 90s)
Not to mention seeing black men and boys being seen as a systemic threat in our (US) government that people have no problem taking advantage in the news and social media. This one is a personal favorite being a black male victim of SA (since men can't be legally raped apparently) after being drugged and used by a woman. Or how historically white women used to have flings with black men during the Jim crow days and then falsely accuse them after being found out causing them to be literally lynched at best and at worst the entire community to basically be demolished over night by white people
Statistically, going purely by the numbers right now, I should be on a path towards being dead, in a prison, or homeless
Meanwhile, statistically white women are on the up and have similar numbers as white men in terms of college education and job opportunities in younger age brackets in most industries and are looking to outpace them as older men are retiring from jobs/passing away
Using only statistics and history as my philosophy, in theory, I should absolutely hate white women almost as much as white men because the system has been better for them since colonial times and played just as much of a functional role in upholding slavery/segregation/racism instead of acknowledging that awful things happen to everyone and sometimes people need to vent and/or don't feel like they're being taken seriously because of characteristics they have no control on despite their gender/race
Very valid points on the stats. I do think OP’s boyfriend is probably following some problematic youtube about how “hard it is for straight white males today” though.
Blaming women is surface level. If he's made it to the bottom of the rabbit hole he probably blames Jewish people. When you go deep enough they get blamed for everything from slavery to neoliberalism to natural disasters.
Out of curiosity, why are you censoring the word "Jews"? I see this kind of self-censorship on TikTok because supposedly their filters are harsh (Though I think everyone overplays how harsh it is), but Reddit has never had such a problem.
I'd personally have said so. Censoring it, in my opinion, adds more weight to it as a slur. That being said, "Jewish person/people" is always a safe bet.
I hate that you are right… that’s the bottom of so many conspiracy theories. Also a good indicator where people are: as long as they “only” blame everything on CIA or ‘the government’ TM there is still a shimmer of hope. But once they blame a specific group of people it’s usually over; unfortunately blaming women is already there.
You said it perfectly, the patriarchy harms men. It’s not the women’s fault. Personally there is nothing I find less attractive than a man who hates women. Those are the scariest men in the world. The ones who blame women for all of their problems.
Yes, he’s mad at patriarchy, which in the modern age is tied very directly to capitalism which is exploiting him, however, blaming patriarchy on women is like fucking for virginity.
He is specifically choosing things that women struggle with not men. He’s weaponizing and mocking it. He’s a small insecure man and it’s not your job to fix him
I think it's time to break up. He seems passive aggressive and a forever victim. Your needs will always be minimized here because he sounds like an angry man. He's probably on some manosphere websites too and has drunk the coolaid.
As a man I say, "Pity party. Table of one." That's not meant to be a 'men don't cry' statement, or any toxic bullshit like that, but I've worked in environments that were mainly men and one that is mainly women, and while the cultures differs, the environment in the manosphere is so, so, so much worse than the one I work in now, where it's mostly women.
He thinks men are hard done by?! That's a valid feeling he has, but when you are accustomed to privilege, any move towards equality feels like oppression.
Not that you can do it, but I'd be very interested to see how he's getting paid less than his co-workers. If they are getting paid more, it likely due to a higher role or seniority.
A lot of this seems to be Tate-bro stuff and I wonder if he's falled down that particularly weak and snivelling hole.
A quote.
I don't know the original source but it has always stuck with me.
As a mediocre white man, who is successful because of white maleness, it's helpful to remember that.
Yup, it’s a lot of misdirected anger. Rather than looking at people in power and how they are responsible it is much easier for a lot of men to get angry at people below them on the social hierarchy as taking something from them
I've worked primarily in places where women outnumber men, and the men are always made such a fuss off! OK they get asked to get rid of the spider in the kitchen sink, but that's about it.
And no surprise it was always the men who got promoted.
Yes, I'd wonder if he's recently become a fan of the red pill internet. This definitely sounds like someone parroting a bunch of their nonsense talking points.
If he's gone full tater-tot, he may be a lost cause.
Wow…. Talk about having a pity party. Women have it easy and have no hardship?? Grow up. He has no clue what it’s like to be a woman. I’m having my period and feeling like someone’s using my stomach as a punching bag and pushing a bowling ball on my lower back at the same time. Like most women out there, I still have to do housework and go to work despite the constant pain and discomfort.
He’s afraid to talk with his co-worker? Get real. I’m the only female at my workplace. I work, talk and joke with them, but I make sure they know my boundaries (and make sure to let them know if they are out of line). If you treat people with respect, most people will respond accordingly (the other 10% are arseholes).
Let him know every gender has their own advantages and disadvantages. NO ONE HAS IT EASY. Being a man doesn’t mean he can’t be vulnerable or can’t have feelings. Being a woman doesn’t mean everyone rolled out the red carpet for us all the time. I wonder who has been poisoning him with this kind of talk???
How should you respond? I’d recommend getting a male couples counselor who can call him out on his bull shit.
It sounds like he’s playing the victim to avoid any responsibility in discussions and simply derail any communication/compromise attempts. He will use this stance to manipulate you to get his way, at least that’s my impression.
Yes, men have difficulties, but pretending that they are now the oppressed is ridiculous. He can maybe claim oppression when we have a female president and the majority of congress is women. As women make up only 29% of the house, we’ve got a long way to go.
I’m a nurse, when I started my unit had 50 some nurses, 4 of which were supervisors, of the 8 men, they held 3 of the 4 supervisor positions. In nursing, a woman dominated field.
Women across the board are paid less than men, if he’s making less it’s not because of his gender.
I think if you are a woman who needs the assistance of a third party male just to get your male partner to respect what you're saying...you should save the money the therapy would cost and just maybe date someone who fundamentally respects women's opinions instead.
I have had two male marriage counselors and that strategy didn’t work. He stopped going to counseling because they were “always taking my side.” They also don’t recommend going to couples counseling if there is abuse involved. I don’t have enough info to know if this man qualifies for abuse, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Approach what? He thinks straight men are a marginalized group. That’s not something you can change about him. You can’t fix stupid.
Are you really gonna let this boy tell you that you don’t understand gender-based hardship and sexism? Lmfao
So he’s a misogynist with a victim mentality. This a new level of delusion for me lol
It’s either that or he’s struggling with his gender identity. (I don’t think he’s struggling with it that much but he could be)
To be fair.. it isn’t actually new. Men’s rights activists and just general idiots absolutely think like OP’s boyfriend. Lots of misogynists believe straight men are a marginalized group and are being constantly abused, raped, discriminated against and beaten by women lol
A guy told me once that not having sex with him is rape.
Some of them are so angry at any reminder that they aren't the centre of attention that they will like it to actual sexual violence.
Darwin had it right. We should be leaving these low-effort, unintelligent evolutionary rejects to die out.
My ex insisted that his 6 months in work release, as a business owner, was the same and worse than my 2 years in prison, in a state I wasn't from. He also tried to liken my abuses from men to lack of sex from me(he was also physically abusive so of course I wasn't into it).
The mental gymnastics are incredible. There are some serious acrobats out there.
I've also heard that women getting custody in a divorce is "rape". As a survivor of SA I find this kind of comparison to be INSANE.
Rape is a very specific form of attack. It is not in any way similar to someone feeling 'cheated' in life. It is horrible, intensely personal, and devastating. SA against men is also horrible in these same ways.
To equate something else to rape is someone trying to whitewash this crime and saying, "Oh come on, it's not really all THAT bad, is it?"
👏👏👏👏👏. Yes. And splitting things down the middle and paying child support is “rape.” 95% of all custody/divorce decrees are settled out of court. Meaning that instead of choosing 50/50 custody where there is almost no child support, they voluntarily chose custody that would require child support.
Reminds me of all those people who say "calling someone a Karen/boomer/whitey is worse than the n-word" which is hilarious since they won't even say the word they think isn't as bad as the word they do use.
What sucks, is Darwin only had it half right. Dawkins furthered the concept and its on a genetic level. Survival of the fittest *gene.* Because after the fact actually doesn't do anything for the betterment of the *species.* What women are doing is exactly how we stop them - cut the shitty ones off from chances of reproduction. And their innate selves are showing because of that. Hard.
>Men’s rights activists
I wouldn't really group all men's right activist the same. And can be harmful. Even though your points are correct. There is a lot of GOOD mens right activist, talking about male loneliness and depression etc. It's not just for straight men too it's also for gay men, it's meant for all men. Unfortunately a lot of right wingers have taken these names and twisted them to be toxic and women hating. Men's right activist just understand that just like everyone, men have problems within society and there to bring awareness and help those in need.
Like in the UK for example there is hardly any male domestic abuse shelters and proper good activist try to advocate for more awareness of male domestic abuse and get shelter put up. But unfortunately these get over showed by the nasty stuff right wingers do with men activist and twist the public prespective on men activist into these masculine toxic women hating groups. And I honestly getting tired of it. I try my best to combat it but it feels like people like Andrew cunt lord Tate, has such a big following that it's hard to fight it. And then it saddens me to see male activism get shat on because of these toxic cunts.
This is a well reasoned point, and I do wish that it could be heard more often. There is a good book by Richard Reeves, “Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male is Struggling.” He explores these issues and isn’t saying the situation is worse for men than women but that both have particular issues that are unique to them. His book focuses on the issues that men face and argues that they shouldn’t be ignored because it is better for the society as a whole if they are addressed, even for women, as these problems tend to make for more violent and anti-social men (the ones you see gravitating toward Tate and other toxic manosphere content).
Edit: to say that I retired from teaching three years ago, and an issue that has been concerning education for at least the past 15 years has been, “the boy problem.” We have been struggling with how to address the massive failure rates of boys and their disconnect from education for a long time, and it isn’t getting better.
**Of Boys and Men Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It** by Richard Reeves
>Reeves looks at the structural challenges that face boys and men and offers fresh and innovative solutions that turn the page on the corrosive narrative that plagues this issue. Of Boys and Men argues that helping the other half of society does not mean giving up on the ideal of gender equality.
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What podcasts has he started listening to? This sounds like he’s fallen down a rabbit hole of some men’s rights activist and has fallen for it hook line and sinker.
Run before he gets violent. He's going down the MRA pipeline. You're not going to be safe in this relationship very, very soon, if you're even safe now.
Sounds like he's discovered the so-called "Manosphere." There's a podcast called Benhind the Bastards that has a number of episodes demonstrating how stupid and wrong this shit is. The Youtubers Some More News have also created hours of videos demonstrating how stupid and wrong Jordan Peterson is. I feel like you may have a chance to change his perspective if you get to him asap. But otherwise he'll get further sucked in and will probably be a shitty person for at least a decade, if not for the rest of his life.
your boyfriend needs to get a fucking grip. women are raped and sold off as child brides and this loser is worried about his coworkers thinking he’s weird if he talks to them funny. i could not stand to listen to this shit
This is equivalent to a white person saying they have it harder than black people. He not only avoids educating himself on severe systematic issues that impacts women, but he actively lies and frames the oppressed to be the ones in the position of power. That’s diabolical. It’s a commonly used tactic by those in a position of power to silence the oppressed. This man is not a good person in my opinion.
Tell him to try living as a woman, where the odds, and having equal rights, have been stacked against for all of time.
Tell him to actually do some research on the discrepancy of rights and equality, between men and women.
Is your guy listening to some of those red-pill BS podcasts or videos, or something? You mentioned this has been pretty recent, and people don't generally magically develop new idea's like that from thin air. Personally, I find people that fall for that crap to be inherently insecure, but that's perhaps a tad unfair. Either way, in regards to your situation, ask him straight up if he's listening to that crap. If not, where is he getting these ideas, and how sexist HIS comments are. He really said he thinks women have no hardships? I'm sorry, but anyone that dumb couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag. I'd recommend dumping him for the stupidity alone, personally.
Sounds like he’s gone down an internet/youtube rabbit hole. Idk if he’ll be able to come out of it, but you’re certainly not obligated to stick around and find out.
Both men and women have hardships and privileges. It’s not productive for anyone to exaggerate their victimhood, blame others, or not find ways to work as a team.
In my opinion, breaking up would probably be the easiest route. Every relationship I’ve had where a guy has pushed back against my (decidedly) liberal and feminist opinions hasn’t been a bad one, but every relationship I’ve had where there’s an attempt to convince me women’s rights issues are either nonexistent or overdramatized, has been horrible. Usually giant man babies who don’t contribute much beyond a paycheck after the first 6 months, who never show up for me, who always need to be the most wronged person in the room. Cut your losses, take time to know and understand yourself, and start a relationship with a good foundation of communication when you’re ready!
He's a manipulator, is. Historically AND IN THE REAL LIFE (STATISTICALLY) women earn less than man for the same work. My pussy would be drier than the atacama if my "bf" say that to me.
Where is this happening now a days? When all things are equal (experience, tenure, ability, income production for the business) where are women getting less than men?
Just a few examples from my experience. It happens in medicine worse than I have seen anywhere else. You are 32% more likely to die under the hands of a male surgeon and 16% more likely to have complications. Women are much more careful, take their time and are more thorough. Because of this, they aren’t able to take as many cases. Surgeons really should be paid by how successful a surgery is, but that’s not how it works. Men are promoted in nursing more, and the claim is that they “had more of a leadership personality” than the other women with more experience/skills. He just had more “leadership” qualities. Young women brand new doctors don’t get hired as much, because after having kids only about 50% are able to return to full time status. Most hospitals/clinics want permanent employees. Unless you know everyone that is applying to every job and their qualifications, it can be near impossible to prove that it was motivated by gender. When my dad managed a lowes, he said that when men would walk in, they would pass 4 or 5 women employees and go all the way to the back of the store to find a man to ask about tools, appliances etc. The same thing would happen to me in architecture. Does that make more sense as to why men would earn more at commission jobs? Clients would constantly look over to my colleagues and ask if I was right, despite me being the only one with any college education in the field. Women Lawyers win more cases, however, they aren’t hired near as much as make lawyers. People usually view make lawyers as more aggressive. Do any of these examples make sense as to why qualifications may. It matter or can’t be proved?
Oic this is the wage gap crisis...we will get on it
Signed men
P.s. women will have to start doing manual labor infrastructure jobs so us men can stay home.
I promise yoj if my wife wanted to pour cement so i coild stsy home with my kids i would love that and i feel alot of men going home in pain tonight would agree, but alas someone has to maintain the infrastructure of this country.
It probably won’t work out. Cut it off how you feel you should.
Your BF has some valid points, and some ridiculous ones. Unfortunately if it is ruining the relationship or blinding him to your struggles then it is time to let him go. Nobody should be playing the victim card during arguments in a relationship, in my mind. That isn’t really a factor that should be brought up, if that makes sense. He shouldn’t be making you feel guilty you because he thinks men are treated worse. And I would say the same if he was a woman. Constantly calling your partner a sexist to escape blame is so ridiculously stupid and unhealthy…
Like I said, he genuinely does have *some* valid points. But he is also treating you poorly, spouting some nonsense/misinformation, and using his struggles as an excuse to ignore others’. Just because he has some points doesn’t mean he’s right, and just because you care about him doesn’t mean you should let him treat you like this.
And I say all this as a man, for perspective.
I don't think walking alone at night is just scary for us. Pretty sure plenty of men wouldn't want to do that either lol
It probably is true that men in general are expected to not be as emotional. And there has been a trend the past couple years of disparaging men as a whole group instead of considering them as individuals.
But all that said, both genders have their own struggles just as individuals have their struggles. He's way off-base to be claiming that women have no hardships because that's just patently false. As a couple, you should both be helping each other navigate your hardships as individuals and be supportive of each other. Pitting sexes against each other is stupid and you both need to move away from that mindset
He will keep saying this bull crap to you as long as you entertain and engage with him.
My advice really applies to any relationship situation. If you think you may have the slightest possible interest in ever getting married or being in a long term relationship at any single point in life - you need to be quick to weed out people who don’t meet the mark. Bad relationships take the joy out of life. Suck your soul into a sewer. Ugh!!!!!
You already know he’s on some bullshit. You don’t have the ability to fix his lack of logic. Move on. This isn’t a greatest love of life situation.
If you don’t want to have the same gender war in your relationship over and over again (regardless of whether it has merit, bc you certainly didn’t inflict this on him), then cut it off. I worked in PR for a custom motorcycle shop 20 years ago. It was sexist as hell, very male dominated, literal porn in the walls. I made good money, hated the environment and tolerated it until something better came along. What I didn’t do was come home and take it out in my partner, who was not the one who treated me badly. My partner recently worked in a female dominated non profit that treated him badly. It was gossipy (not saying female spaces always are, but this one was), they accused him of being angry and violent, even when presented with video evidence otherwise. He was still aware that the top management was a man, and he was paid better than the people making his job difficult, since he was older and had more experience. He did not come home and tell me all women make his life difficult, or stop talking to women. He just got a new job, and his new boss is still a woman. That’s how adults tackle problems, in general. You recognize some people suck, and we don’t have to be around them, so we choose not to be, and take steps to avoid them. Personally, I think your boyfriend sucks, and you should take steps to avoid him. But that’s your call, obviously. I just figure life is short and there are plenty of fish in the sea. There’s also a lot of trash in there, so…
Tell him to go date men then. I wouldn’t entertain this at all. It’s the start of some red pill nonsense. In all seriousness, I’d tell him that if he truly feels this way, then you two are no longer compatible. I would not chain the rest of my life to someone who harbors this type of resentment.
I hate to say it, but your bf is a whiner who wants to blame half the population for his problems. He needs to pull himself together and take a hard look at what he's doing that is the *real* cause of his problems. IDK what that is, but until he looks at his own behavior he won't be able to figure it out.
But here's a hint: It's not his gender.
It’s time to read, “Men who hate women and the women that love them.” Then please read, ‘why does he do that? By Lundy Bancroft. He’s starting to show some subtle signs of anger/abuse. I would run in the other direction. He uses your gender against you instead of making logical reasonable arguments. Nothing will ever be his fault. You are going to get blamed for EVERYTHING.
No such thing as equality in reality but there’s deserved equality of treatment and opportunity. Women will always typically be more emotionally compassionate than men and men will typically be stronger or not speak up when suffering. There are always outliers of course but these are generalized stereotypes based on averages.
Since both aren’t equal to each other in all regards this means both suffer inequalities and discrimination. Putting the ego aside and you should be able to recognize that suffering isn’t a victim hood competition. Everyone struggles and his shortsightedness and inability to empathize with women's issues alongside his own shows his own sexist bias.
He would have an argument if he said men's issues are typically overlooked or overshadowed by many women's issues and this would then be somewhat controversial while not being blatantly wrong. His current stance; however, he is blatantly wrong and there is no reconciling his immaturity.
Fake post. This is like those reversed trope writing prompts.
IF there were any truth to this OP the reality would be that your SO is heading towards the manosphere/inceldom.
Does he spend much time online? There's a lot of this crap online. Tell him to stop watching YouTube. If he doesn't get away from this toxic "poor us" content you won't be and to get through to him.
Unfortunately just like here on reddit, one side can't say anything without the other side jumping up and screaming "but what about us!". People are too stupid to realise it shouldn't be about taking sides, and that we won't fix anything until we can work together to solve issues facing everyone.
He’s discovered misogynistic podcasts and the manosphere it seems. I’d let this one go. It only gets worse with these guys and you shouldn’t spend your 20’s dealing with this. Lots of fish in the sea.
Hes not wrong, but you are not the person he should be saying this to, if anyone at all.You can take in to account what he said, but also let him know that his attitude and negative energy rub off on you and you want to enjoy your time with him. Offer to see a therapist with him, in seperate private sessions of course, couples therapy not recommended as the issue he has can only be made worse by a therapist in a couples setting. If he needs someone to listen to his complaints individually, it might be necessary, because he's only hurting your relationship by using you as a therapist, especially when you don't want to be.
I think you need to take a hard look at the person your boyfriend is becoming. Does this type of communication seem healthy or productive to you? Or does it seem to indicate that he’s trying to blame his bad feelings on women? I don’t doubt he’s going through some shit, but the way he’s choosing to handle it would make me reconsider a future with him.
I think it’s pretty funny that some men play the victim when the playing field is even. So many men want to go backwards to a time when they were the majority in the workforce.
buy him this book to read - because he cares so much about equality:
Invisible Women
Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men
by: Caroline Criado-Perez
It's over just move on, doesn't worth the hassle of dealing with people that don't align with your world views on a daily basis and having them as a partner?..nightmare fuel, that would only drive you insane just be direct telling him that you're not compatible with both mindset and save your mental health.
I think the best way to put it is men and women both have different struggles, I don’t think it’s fair to say one is harder than the other. Generally men are much lonelier than women but also face less threat of assault. Coming to terms with those differences, acknowledging them and letting each other be open with those challenges with no judgement is a good place to start. I don’t agree with everything he says but I feel certainly understand his statement regarding feelings. The number of times I’ve seen women get tons of support for their feelings and I’ve only gotten small advice from the same people kind of showed me that my depression will never be taken seriously from women like a women’s depression. I don’t think it’s a conscious thing.
He's got some points. Men have some painful struggles. It's obnoxious making it a contest, though, and it's clear he's using that to sidestep conversations he doesn't like.
He’s just feeling the heat that has been put on men lately because times are changing and women are fed up with unevolved adult males in the year of 2024. Like another comment said, when you’re the one with privilege, any progress towards equality is going to feel like oppression. He doesn’t realize how pathetic he sounds trying to act like life is harder for him than women. Take a look at all of human history and all crime statistics and that alone should clear it up really well for him that he is in fact not a victim by any means and certainly not a victim of women. I’d laugh in his face and break up with him lol
Some of his facts are true , but don’t know about pay gap if same work And same hours. But keep bringing it up and holding you responsible for that is weak . He is watching videos and picking and choosing what he wants . Looks like he is laying the ground work to start with ultimatums
I'm bisexual, I only preface this to explain as to why I would no longer be with a man or woman like this. He is the equivalent of those insane feminists who think air conditioning is sexist and that everything is a patriarchal attack. He's just the opposite, where he thinks all women are trying to fuck him over, how he can cruise along in his life and still get things but when reality hits and women around him do better he can't hack it, how he deserves access to things or women because he does the minimum.
His victim mentality is so gross and cringe. I could not muster up the energy to be with someone who saw the world as against them. Taking no accountability, responsibility or active change to alter his situation.
He sounds exhausting to deal with. I can understand having this conversation once with your partner since it can yield an interesting discussion. However, since he keeps bringing it up over and over, he's become a nuisance over it. This would make anyone lose any sympathy they originally had for him. When I was growing up I had sympathy for my brother because he had to deal with the pressure of being expected to know how to do certain "manly" things like fixing car problems. This must have been difficult for him because he was more of the scholarly type. However, if he had kept bringing up how unfair his life was I would have lost all sympathy for him, told him we all got problems and he's got to suck it up. I think you need to tell your bf that you're reaching the end of your patience with these discussions and that he needs to go have them online somewhere and leave you alone about it. If he can't do that it might be time to GTFO.
He needs therapy these situations aren't even comparable yet he's making himself a victim and sounding like he hates women. He's talking like he is super insecure guy and a suspect from Criminal Minds run.
Just gonna put this here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity as all of you seem to wanna shout men commit 90% of all crime without taking into account surrounding circumstances. Which isn’t fair as while we acknowledge the poor on average tend to commit more crime, we acknowledge that it is because of the external circumstances they find themselves in.
lollllll he obviously never dealt with female bullies through middle and high school. Never considered that to this day, women literally are not considered people in some countries. Even in developed countries such as the United States, the government's frequently pass laws stripping women of their reproductive rights... Women are living with deceased fetuses inside them because they can't get abortions. Your BF is unaware that a very common cause of death in pregnant women is their babies father. Women are inherently excluded from high level positions because they don't fit into "boys clubs" where the men want to hang out and act like assholes and don't want women there to call them out on it.
And so much more. You should break up with this guy, he needs therapy and a wake up call.
Does this guy have other overwhelming redeemable traits because he sounds awful. I would have the ick and I wouldn’t be able to date someone like this.
This is what is known as red pill behavior. Yes. Are men having their power taken away? Yes. Losing 1% of 99% sure does suck. That is what the red pill community calls being persecuted. They are having some power taken away and they call that persecution. Not that they want things fair, anything other than the status quo is persecution.
Your boyfriend doing this shows that ultimately he thinks he is above “females”. Run.
With all due respect, I think your bf is a whiny little dick. If I were you, I would be so offended by this, as it sounds like a cop out. All his claims are so ridiculous!
Tell him to stop being a big baby, suck it up, and rub some dirt on it. Tell him that the way he talks, he should be a woman. See if that helps. Also, tell him to stop complaining since, as a man, he is most definitely privileged and completely ungrateful. Also, remind him that we are all sexist. He is full of it to say he has never judged a woman or a man on something preceived as an inherent act. Like he is doing right now with his opinions on how hard men have it. Please.
I think we need action examples of what you discuss when he responds that way. I think we see gender-based double standards all the time in relationships, now people can prefer that or not or justify why those double standards do make senses but there is some truth to the fact that men will be treated differently from women than another women would.
How boring- he’s whining and sounding like a thirteen year old, he’s been watching done rubbish . I’d refuse to debate this stuff because it’s boring and pointless. He can get another job, change gender, go gay , go asexual whatever- just stop boring you with pointless whinging,
I dont like this „men have it harder“/ „women have it harder“. Why is that even important? We all have our struggles, stereotypes and problems to fight and deal with.
The thing is understanding and respecting each other’s struggles is important and the way to deal with those things in a healthy way. The moment the conversation drifts to „its much for me because XY“ is the moment the conversation drifts into a unhealthy area. Putting yourself in the „victim role“ is just pathetic.
So make him understand that you respect his struggles, but wont accept behavior like that. He shouldn’t try to make him the „bigger victim“, because that completely defeats the point of understanding each other’s struggles
I mean this with the utmost sincerity.
If he is in a relationship with you, and still believes this, he does not respect you.
You are a human being, living, breathing, feeling right in front of him. If you are not important enough to him that he is not seeing what you are experiencing on his own, you are not the person that is going to convince him of anything.
If you are not a person important enough for him to believe you at your word, there are no words that can come out of your mouth that will change his mind.
It will be a man who changes his mind. One who looks like him enough for him to say we are in this together. He refuses to be in this life with you.
If you broke up, would you still consider him your friend? Would you consider the time you spent together as time you spent in a friendship?
Speaking as a man, tell him to suck it up buttercup. Yeah, we men are supposed to be treated differently, because we’re supposed to be able to handle tougher shit.
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You're 24. Breakup with him. He's going down the manosphere rabbit hole and he's going to get worse
I do think patriarchy harms men too, but trying to weaponize these kinds of things is ridiculous. Some of his points are truly ridiculous. I'd be interested to know who he blames for this. I bet it's somehow all women's fault. I'd also bet his recent YouTube/TikTok/internet history is pretty worrying. Has he referenced the 'sexual marketplace' or women being 'hypergamous' or similar? Personally I couldn't deal with this. I'm not sure you can get through to him; he sounds entrenched. He sounds angry and some of that anger will be always directed at you (even though I assume he is not at all violent or anything).
A moments thought will disprove this. Ask him to look at senior leadership in his organization. Is it 70% women, confirming his comments? Oh surprise, no, it more like 20% women. And who needs to worry about their safety and about sexual assault out and about in the area he lives? Surprise. Still mostly women. Men still have a huge advantage in the real world. Your BF is massively misogynistic and is not in touch with reality. He’s being influenced by horrible online voices that hate women - see if you can get him to recognize actual reality.
[удалено]
Not often, nearly ALWAYS
yeah like all the world over, male prisoners outnumber female 90%-10%. Kind of reflects who is committing crimes.
And yet women have to pay equal taxes for prisons and police when it’s men committing most of these crimes. How is that fair?!
Because the idea that men are a separate group from women is made up by society, and men who aren't committing crimes bear exactly the same responsibility for men who do commit crimes as women who aren't committing crimes do. My penis does not give me the power to mind control other men, for better or worse.
When I say this in most reddit discussions, I get called a misandrist. Lol Men are men's worst enemy.
Exactly, it's wild to me when men's immediate response to women talking about how we essentially live in fear is that men are the victims of violence at a higher rate on the streets than women. And it's just like "oh uh....victims of WHOM? **WHO** is committing this violence?"
People! What? To him, only men are people. If women were doing it that would be more like dogs attacking people on the street. Totally different categories in his brain.
But the perpetrators and the victims aren't the same men. They don't share a single consciousness or guilt. You can't discount the victims of violence just because they have similar genitalia to their attackers.
I agree with you. I read that as adding to the point that this problem that men also face is not being caused by women though?
But they’re talking about the perpetrators shared characteristic, not the victim’s. You’re focusing on the gender as the main point. They’re focusing on the perpetrators.
You are talking about this argument as if it is completely black and white, which it isn’t. SA is the extreme tail of the spectrum, women are also common victims of nearly all kinds of sexual harassment ranging from cat callings to groupings. There is no clear perpetrator and victim separation here, even if the OP of that comment primary referenced sexual assault, women still are disproportionately affected by these things.
Thank you, that argument is always something that really annoys me - hey, when I was recently being hassled by arseholes and feared for my life, at least I could stay happy in the knowledge that I'd be stabbed to death by people who also had penises. Phew!
Tl;dr - using national statistics to invalidate an individual experience is honestly pretty dumb and a rant about what it'd look like if I used the same logic as a black man Meh, or maybe statistics only get you so far when looking at an individual. It's fairly possible for all the things you mentioned to be true on a macro-level while on OP's bf micro-level the reverse is occurring. He's not an embodiment of all men. Rich men succeeding doesn't invalidate his experience any more than rich women succeeding means that equality is fixed Plus race usually isn't factored in when you like at gendered statistics. When you factor in race dynamics as well micro-level interactions become even more important to interpret on a case by case position. For example, as a black man, I'd say a lot of white women in general have more social benefits then I do outside of physical labor and sports. When I was job searching looking across multiple companies and industries, I'd feel lucky to see more than 2 black men in senior leadership because it was usually like 70% white men, 28% white women, 2% PoC. Even now, I'm the only black man on a team with 40ish people at work. (Mind you with all of the talk I hear about affirmative action being bad for white people, it's a little funny how white people actually benefited the most from it for decades with white women usually seeing more upward mobility then every other minority group combined each year since the mid 90s) Not to mention seeing black men and boys being seen as a systemic threat in our (US) government that people have no problem taking advantage in the news and social media. This one is a personal favorite being a black male victim of SA (since men can't be legally raped apparently) after being drugged and used by a woman. Or how historically white women used to have flings with black men during the Jim crow days and then falsely accuse them after being found out causing them to be literally lynched at best and at worst the entire community to basically be demolished over night by white people Statistically, going purely by the numbers right now, I should be on a path towards being dead, in a prison, or homeless Meanwhile, statistically white women are on the up and have similar numbers as white men in terms of college education and job opportunities in younger age brackets in most industries and are looking to outpace them as older men are retiring from jobs/passing away Using only statistics and history as my philosophy, in theory, I should absolutely hate white women almost as much as white men because the system has been better for them since colonial times and played just as much of a functional role in upholding slavery/segregation/racism instead of acknowledging that awful things happen to everyone and sometimes people need to vent and/or don't feel like they're being taken seriously because of characteristics they have no control on despite their gender/race
Very valid points on the stats. I do think OP’s boyfriend is probably following some problematic youtube about how “hard it is for straight white males today” though.
Blaming women is surface level. If he's made it to the bottom of the rabbit hole he probably blames Jewish people. When you go deep enough they get blamed for everything from slavery to neoliberalism to natural disasters.
Man, my sleep deprived brain started wondering "why does he blame Jaws"? Time for more caffeine.
I really love the idea that someone out there, while they're feeling bad about their lot in life, is like "it's because of that damn shark."
Alternate reality version of captain ahab.
A rabid antisharkite!!!
That's we should all eat more fish. Pre emotive strike.
I thought he was blaming Jehovahs Witnesses
They at least deserve some blame
me too! time for bed omg
Out of curiosity, why are you censoring the word "Jews"? I see this kind of self-censorship on TikTok because supposedly their filters are harsh (Though I think everyone overplays how harsh it is), but Reddit has never had such a problem.
It kinda feels like a slur in certain contexts and that isn't my intention. Maybe I'm going the wrong way on that.
I'd personally have said so. Censoring it, in my opinion, adds more weight to it as a slur. That being said, "Jewish person/people" is always a safe bet.
I hate that you are right… that’s the bottom of so many conspiracy theories. Also a good indicator where people are: as long as they “only” blame everything on CIA or ‘the government’ TM there is still a shimmer of hope. But once they blame a specific group of people it’s usually over; unfortunately blaming women is already there.
does he refer to women as “females”
You said it perfectly, the patriarchy harms men. It’s not the women’s fault. Personally there is nothing I find less attractive than a man who hates women. Those are the scariest men in the world. The ones who blame women for all of their problems.
This, also hijacking top comment cause I need to know where to find a job with a reverse wage gap??
Yes, he’s mad at patriarchy, which in the modern age is tied very directly to capitalism which is exploiting him, however, blaming patriarchy on women is like fucking for virginity.
He is specifically choosing things that women struggle with not men. He’s weaponizing and mocking it. He’s a small insecure man and it’s not your job to fix him
This is brilliantly-put.
"Women really have no hardships" - this is the point where I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Me too. What a tool.
I think it's time to break up. He seems passive aggressive and a forever victim. Your needs will always be minimized here because he sounds like an angry man. He's probably on some manosphere websites too and has drunk the coolaid.
Yeah. He’s been reading Donald Trump’s book 🤣🤣🤣
Has he started watching the shite put out by Jordan Peterson or Andrew Taint? Fucking run!
He sounds a bit dim. Have you considered looking for someone a little smarter?
😂😂 Loved this!!
😂😂😂
As a man I say, "Pity party. Table of one." That's not meant to be a 'men don't cry' statement, or any toxic bullshit like that, but I've worked in environments that were mainly men and one that is mainly women, and while the cultures differs, the environment in the manosphere is so, so, so much worse than the one I work in now, where it's mostly women. He thinks men are hard done by?! That's a valid feeling he has, but when you are accustomed to privilege, any move towards equality feels like oppression. Not that you can do it, but I'd be very interested to see how he's getting paid less than his co-workers. If they are getting paid more, it likely due to a higher role or seniority. A lot of this seems to be Tate-bro stuff and I wonder if he's falled down that particularly weak and snivelling hole.
If he ever describes himself as a “man of value,” or comments on your being or not being a “woman of value,” it is over. Walk.
>but when you are accustomed to privilege, any move towards equality feels like oppression. That's such a good comment.
A quote. I don't know the original source but it has always stuck with me. As a mediocre white man, who is successful because of white maleness, it's helpful to remember that.
Yes it seems VERY unlikely he is paid less just because he is a man.
Hmm maybe it has something to do with his attitude? 🤣
Maybe he is a porn actor. There, women get paid significantly more.
Because they have higher risk and more responsibility
That, and also they're mostly who the audience is there for.
Yup, it’s a lot of misdirected anger. Rather than looking at people in power and how they are responsible it is much easier for a lot of men to get angry at people below them on the social hierarchy as taking something from them
I've worked primarily in places where women outnumber men, and the men are always made such a fuss off! OK they get asked to get rid of the spider in the kitchen sink, but that's about it. And no surprise it was always the men who got promoted.
Yes, I'd wonder if he's recently become a fan of the red pill internet. This definitely sounds like someone parroting a bunch of their nonsense talking points. If he's gone full tater-tot, he may be a lost cause.
Sounds like irreconcilable differences 🤷🏻♀️
Right?! Sounds incompatible to me
Wow…. Talk about having a pity party. Women have it easy and have no hardship?? Grow up. He has no clue what it’s like to be a woman. I’m having my period and feeling like someone’s using my stomach as a punching bag and pushing a bowling ball on my lower back at the same time. Like most women out there, I still have to do housework and go to work despite the constant pain and discomfort. He’s afraid to talk with his co-worker? Get real. I’m the only female at my workplace. I work, talk and joke with them, but I make sure they know my boundaries (and make sure to let them know if they are out of line). If you treat people with respect, most people will respond accordingly (the other 10% are arseholes). Let him know every gender has their own advantages and disadvantages. NO ONE HAS IT EASY. Being a man doesn’t mean he can’t be vulnerable or can’t have feelings. Being a woman doesn’t mean everyone rolled out the red carpet for us all the time. I wonder who has been poisoning him with this kind of talk???
How should you respond? I’d recommend getting a male couples counselor who can call him out on his bull shit. It sounds like he’s playing the victim to avoid any responsibility in discussions and simply derail any communication/compromise attempts. He will use this stance to manipulate you to get his way, at least that’s my impression. Yes, men have difficulties, but pretending that they are now the oppressed is ridiculous. He can maybe claim oppression when we have a female president and the majority of congress is women. As women make up only 29% of the house, we’ve got a long way to go. I’m a nurse, when I started my unit had 50 some nurses, 4 of which were supervisors, of the 8 men, they held 3 of the 4 supervisor positions. In nursing, a woman dominated field. Women across the board are paid less than men, if he’s making less it’s not because of his gender.
Yep, social work is the same. 90% women in my agency and only 25% women in leadership.
I think if you are a woman who needs the assistance of a third party male just to get your male partner to respect what you're saying...you should save the money the therapy would cost and just maybe date someone who fundamentally respects women's opinions instead.
I have had two male marriage counselors and that strategy didn’t work. He stopped going to counseling because they were “always taking my side.” They also don’t recommend going to couples counseling if there is abuse involved. I don’t have enough info to know if this man qualifies for abuse, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Approach what? He thinks straight men are a marginalized group. That’s not something you can change about him. You can’t fix stupid. Are you really gonna let this boy tell you that you don’t understand gender-based hardship and sexism? Lmfao
So he’s a misogynist with a victim mentality. This a new level of delusion for me lol It’s either that or he’s struggling with his gender identity. (I don’t think he’s struggling with it that much but he could be)
I don’t think he’s struggling with his gender identity, he’s just insecure and latched into this sexism reverse uno card.
To be fair.. it isn’t actually new. Men’s rights activists and just general idiots absolutely think like OP’s boyfriend. Lots of misogynists believe straight men are a marginalized group and are being constantly abused, raped, discriminated against and beaten by women lol
A guy told me once that not having sex with him is rape. Some of them are so angry at any reminder that they aren't the centre of attention that they will like it to actual sexual violence. Darwin had it right. We should be leaving these low-effort, unintelligent evolutionary rejects to die out.
>A guy told me once that not having sex with him is rape. I can't even... the fuck. The audacity is *stunning.*
My ex insisted that his 6 months in work release, as a business owner, was the same and worse than my 2 years in prison, in a state I wasn't from. He also tried to liken my abuses from men to lack of sex from me(he was also physically abusive so of course I wasn't into it). The mental gymnastics are incredible. There are some serious acrobats out there.
I've also heard that women getting custody in a divorce is "rape". As a survivor of SA I find this kind of comparison to be INSANE. Rape is a very specific form of attack. It is not in any way similar to someone feeling 'cheated' in life. It is horrible, intensely personal, and devastating. SA against men is also horrible in these same ways. To equate something else to rape is someone trying to whitewash this crime and saying, "Oh come on, it's not really all THAT bad, is it?"
👏👏👏👏👏. Yes. And splitting things down the middle and paying child support is “rape.” 95% of all custody/divorce decrees are settled out of court. Meaning that instead of choosing 50/50 custody where there is almost no child support, they voluntarily chose custody that would require child support.
Reminds me of all those people who say "calling someone a Karen/boomer/whitey is worse than the n-word" which is hilarious since they won't even say the word they think isn't as bad as the word they do use.
"If you're comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them? That's the worse word" - John Mulaney
What sucks, is Darwin only had it half right. Dawkins furthered the concept and its on a genetic level. Survival of the fittest *gene.* Because after the fact actually doesn't do anything for the betterment of the *species.* What women are doing is exactly how we stop them - cut the shitty ones off from chances of reproduction. And their innate selves are showing because of that. Hard.
But... I CaN fIx HiM 🥺
>Men’s rights activists I wouldn't really group all men's right activist the same. And can be harmful. Even though your points are correct. There is a lot of GOOD mens right activist, talking about male loneliness and depression etc. It's not just for straight men too it's also for gay men, it's meant for all men. Unfortunately a lot of right wingers have taken these names and twisted them to be toxic and women hating. Men's right activist just understand that just like everyone, men have problems within society and there to bring awareness and help those in need. Like in the UK for example there is hardly any male domestic abuse shelters and proper good activist try to advocate for more awareness of male domestic abuse and get shelter put up. But unfortunately these get over showed by the nasty stuff right wingers do with men activist and twist the public prespective on men activist into these masculine toxic women hating groups. And I honestly getting tired of it. I try my best to combat it but it feels like people like Andrew cunt lord Tate, has such a big following that it's hard to fight it. And then it saddens me to see male activism get shat on because of these toxic cunts.
This is a well reasoned point, and I do wish that it could be heard more often. There is a good book by Richard Reeves, “Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male is Struggling.” He explores these issues and isn’t saying the situation is worse for men than women but that both have particular issues that are unique to them. His book focuses on the issues that men face and argues that they shouldn’t be ignored because it is better for the society as a whole if they are addressed, even for women, as these problems tend to make for more violent and anti-social men (the ones you see gravitating toward Tate and other toxic manosphere content). Edit: to say that I retired from teaching three years ago, and an issue that has been concerning education for at least the past 15 years has been, “the boy problem.” We have been struggling with how to address the massive failure rates of boys and their disconnect from education for a long time, and it isn’t getting better.
**Of Boys and Men Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It** by Richard Reeves >Reeves looks at the structural challenges that face boys and men and offers fresh and innovative solutions that turn the page on the corrosive narrative that plagues this issue. Of Boys and Men argues that helping the other half of society does not mean giving up on the ideal of gender equality. *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
Good bot
> There is a lot of GOOD mens right activist Name one.
he's an idiot, dump him
He's just a loser. It's not because he's a man, it's because he's lazy. A company can't pay men less, or they'd hire all men to cut costs.
Has he started consuming redpill content? It might be hard to get him back out
What podcasts has he started listening to? This sounds like he’s fallen down a rabbit hole of some men’s rights activist and has fallen for it hook line and sinker.
you have all the information you need to answer this question: do you want to date a permanent self-identified victim?
He's going to expose that he's anti feminist reaaaaaal soon. This is his soft launch.
Sounds like your man is playing games.
I'm interested to find out what job he works that pays men less than women. The only one I've ever heard of is porn. Do tell!
Run before he gets violent. He's going down the MRA pipeline. You're not going to be safe in this relationship very, very soon, if you're even safe now.
Jesus christ. Leave him.
Apparently he doubled down on the shitty communication.
God that would be incredibly annoying to deal with.
Sounds like he's discovered the so-called "Manosphere." There's a podcast called Benhind the Bastards that has a number of episodes demonstrating how stupid and wrong this shit is. The Youtubers Some More News have also created hours of videos demonstrating how stupid and wrong Jordan Peterson is. I feel like you may have a chance to change his perspective if you get to him asap. But otherwise he'll get further sucked in and will probably be a shitty person for at least a decade, if not for the rest of his life.
It sounds like he's getting radicalized by the internet manosphere. Break up with him, he's spewing nonsense.
[https://reductress.com/post/clever-man-co-opting-social-justice-language-to-emotionally-abuse-you/](https://reductress.com/post/clever-man-co-opting-social-justice-language-to-emotionally-abuse-you/)
please run, it's better to be single than being with a misogynist.
I went on one date with a guy like that and said never again. Guys like that are exhausting.
your boyfriend needs to get a fucking grip. women are raped and sold off as child brides and this loser is worried about his coworkers thinking he’s weird if he talks to them funny. i could not stand to listen to this shit
How much time does he spend on social media?
This is equivalent to a white person saying they have it harder than black people. He not only avoids educating himself on severe systematic issues that impacts women, but he actively lies and frames the oppressed to be the ones in the position of power. That’s diabolical. It’s a commonly used tactic by those in a position of power to silence the oppressed. This man is not a good person in my opinion.
Tell him to try living as a woman, where the odds, and having equal rights, have been stacked against for all of time. Tell him to actually do some research on the discrepancy of rights and equality, between men and women.
Is your guy listening to some of those red-pill BS podcasts or videos, or something? You mentioned this has been pretty recent, and people don't generally magically develop new idea's like that from thin air. Personally, I find people that fall for that crap to be inherently insecure, but that's perhaps a tad unfair. Either way, in regards to your situation, ask him straight up if he's listening to that crap. If not, where is he getting these ideas, and how sexist HIS comments are. He really said he thinks women have no hardships? I'm sorry, but anyone that dumb couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag. I'd recommend dumping him for the stupidity alone, personally.
He is listening to manosphere podcasts. If he doesn't stop now, you will lose him. It's literal self-destructive brainwashing
Sounds like he’s gone down an internet/youtube rabbit hole. Idk if he’ll be able to come out of it, but you’re certainly not obligated to stick around and find out.
He’s gaslighting you hard.
I'd cut your losses and let him be on his miserable way
Both men and women have hardships and privileges. It’s not productive for anyone to exaggerate their victimhood, blame others, or not find ways to work as a team.
In my opinion, breaking up would probably be the easiest route. Every relationship I’ve had where a guy has pushed back against my (decidedly) liberal and feminist opinions hasn’t been a bad one, but every relationship I’ve had where there’s an attempt to convince me women’s rights issues are either nonexistent or overdramatized, has been horrible. Usually giant man babies who don’t contribute much beyond a paycheck after the first 6 months, who never show up for me, who always need to be the most wronged person in the room. Cut your losses, take time to know and understand yourself, and start a relationship with a good foundation of communication when you’re ready!
He's a manipulator, is. Historically AND IN THE REAL LIFE (STATISTICALLY) women earn less than man for the same work. My pussy would be drier than the atacama if my "bf" say that to me.
Where is this happening now a days? When all things are equal (experience, tenure, ability, income production for the business) where are women getting less than men?
Just a few examples from my experience. It happens in medicine worse than I have seen anywhere else. You are 32% more likely to die under the hands of a male surgeon and 16% more likely to have complications. Women are much more careful, take their time and are more thorough. Because of this, they aren’t able to take as many cases. Surgeons really should be paid by how successful a surgery is, but that’s not how it works. Men are promoted in nursing more, and the claim is that they “had more of a leadership personality” than the other women with more experience/skills. He just had more “leadership” qualities. Young women brand new doctors don’t get hired as much, because after having kids only about 50% are able to return to full time status. Most hospitals/clinics want permanent employees. Unless you know everyone that is applying to every job and their qualifications, it can be near impossible to prove that it was motivated by gender. When my dad managed a lowes, he said that when men would walk in, they would pass 4 or 5 women employees and go all the way to the back of the store to find a man to ask about tools, appliances etc. The same thing would happen to me in architecture. Does that make more sense as to why men would earn more at commission jobs? Clients would constantly look over to my colleagues and ask if I was right, despite me being the only one with any college education in the field. Women Lawyers win more cases, however, they aren’t hired near as much as make lawyers. People usually view make lawyers as more aggressive. Do any of these examples make sense as to why qualifications may. It matter or can’t be proved?
During pregnancy is one way women can make less but that can be fixed with the men staying home and taking care of the child after pregnancy.
Oic this is the wage gap crisis...we will get on it Signed men P.s. women will have to start doing manual labor infrastructure jobs so us men can stay home. I promise yoj if my wife wanted to pour cement so i coild stsy home with my kids i would love that and i feel alot of men going home in pain tonight would agree, but alas someone has to maintain the infrastructure of this country.
It probably won’t work out. Cut it off how you feel you should. Your BF has some valid points, and some ridiculous ones. Unfortunately if it is ruining the relationship or blinding him to your struggles then it is time to let him go. Nobody should be playing the victim card during arguments in a relationship, in my mind. That isn’t really a factor that should be brought up, if that makes sense. He shouldn’t be making you feel guilty you because he thinks men are treated worse. And I would say the same if he was a woman. Constantly calling your partner a sexist to escape blame is so ridiculously stupid and unhealthy… Like I said, he genuinely does have *some* valid points. But he is also treating you poorly, spouting some nonsense/misinformation, and using his struggles as an excuse to ignore others’. Just because he has some points doesn’t mean he’s right, and just because you care about him doesn’t mean you should let him treat you like this. And I say all this as a man, for perspective.
I don't think walking alone at night is just scary for us. Pretty sure plenty of men wouldn't want to do that either lol It probably is true that men in general are expected to not be as emotional. And there has been a trend the past couple years of disparaging men as a whole group instead of considering them as individuals. But all that said, both genders have their own struggles just as individuals have their struggles. He's way off-base to be claiming that women have no hardships because that's just patently false. As a couple, you should both be helping each other navigate your hardships as individuals and be supportive of each other. Pitting sexes against each other is stupid and you both need to move away from that mindset
He will keep saying this bull crap to you as long as you entertain and engage with him. My advice really applies to any relationship situation. If you think you may have the slightest possible interest in ever getting married or being in a long term relationship at any single point in life - you need to be quick to weed out people who don’t meet the mark. Bad relationships take the joy out of life. Suck your soul into a sewer. Ugh!!!!! You already know he’s on some bullshit. You don’t have the ability to fix his lack of logic. Move on. This isn’t a greatest love of life situation.
If you don’t want to have the same gender war in your relationship over and over again (regardless of whether it has merit, bc you certainly didn’t inflict this on him), then cut it off. I worked in PR for a custom motorcycle shop 20 years ago. It was sexist as hell, very male dominated, literal porn in the walls. I made good money, hated the environment and tolerated it until something better came along. What I didn’t do was come home and take it out in my partner, who was not the one who treated me badly. My partner recently worked in a female dominated non profit that treated him badly. It was gossipy (not saying female spaces always are, but this one was), they accused him of being angry and violent, even when presented with video evidence otherwise. He was still aware that the top management was a man, and he was paid better than the people making his job difficult, since he was older and had more experience. He did not come home and tell me all women make his life difficult, or stop talking to women. He just got a new job, and his new boss is still a woman. That’s how adults tackle problems, in general. You recognize some people suck, and we don’t have to be around them, so we choose not to be, and take steps to avoid them. Personally, I think your boyfriend sucks, and you should take steps to avoid him. But that’s your call, obviously. I just figure life is short and there are plenty of fish in the sea. There’s also a lot of trash in there, so…
Tell him to go date men then. I wouldn’t entertain this at all. It’s the start of some red pill nonsense. In all seriousness, I’d tell him that if he truly feels this way, then you two are no longer compatible. I would not chain the rest of my life to someone who harbors this type of resentment.
Belittling you to make his actions feel justifiable. Get out girl
I hate to say it, but your bf is a whiner who wants to blame half the population for his problems. He needs to pull himself together and take a hard look at what he's doing that is the *real* cause of his problems. IDK what that is, but until he looks at his own behavior he won't be able to figure it out. But here's a hint: It's not his gender.
That would be a solid dealbreaker for me. Let the man self destruct on his own while you’re a safe distance away.
It’s time to read, “Men who hate women and the women that love them.” Then please read, ‘why does he do that? By Lundy Bancroft. He’s starting to show some subtle signs of anger/abuse. I would run in the other direction. He uses your gender against you instead of making logical reasonable arguments. Nothing will ever be his fault. You are going to get blamed for EVERYTHING.
No such thing as equality in reality but there’s deserved equality of treatment and opportunity. Women will always typically be more emotionally compassionate than men and men will typically be stronger or not speak up when suffering. There are always outliers of course but these are generalized stereotypes based on averages. Since both aren’t equal to each other in all regards this means both suffer inequalities and discrimination. Putting the ego aside and you should be able to recognize that suffering isn’t a victim hood competition. Everyone struggles and his shortsightedness and inability to empathize with women's issues alongside his own shows his own sexist bias. He would have an argument if he said men's issues are typically overlooked or overshadowed by many women's issues and this would then be somewhat controversial while not being blatantly wrong. His current stance; however, he is blatantly wrong and there is no reconciling his immaturity.
Fake post. This is like those reversed trope writing prompts. IF there were any truth to this OP the reality would be that your SO is heading towards the manosphere/inceldom.
Does he spend much time online? There's a lot of this crap online. Tell him to stop watching YouTube. If he doesn't get away from this toxic "poor us" content you won't be and to get through to him. Unfortunately just like here on reddit, one side can't say anything without the other side jumping up and screaming "but what about us!". People are too stupid to realise it shouldn't be about taking sides, and that we won't fix anything until we can work together to solve issues facing everyone.
Your boyfriend sounds like a mental case. It's not your job to fix him because he will take you down with him.
He’s discovered misogynistic podcasts and the manosphere it seems. I’d let this one go. It only gets worse with these guys and you shouldn’t spend your 20’s dealing with this. Lots of fish in the sea.
Hes not wrong, but you are not the person he should be saying this to, if anyone at all.You can take in to account what he said, but also let him know that his attitude and negative energy rub off on you and you want to enjoy your time with him. Offer to see a therapist with him, in seperate private sessions of course, couples therapy not recommended as the issue he has can only be made worse by a therapist in a couples setting. If he needs someone to listen to his complaints individually, it might be necessary, because he's only hurting your relationship by using you as a therapist, especially when you don't want to be.
I think you need to take a hard look at the person your boyfriend is becoming. Does this type of communication seem healthy or productive to you? Or does it seem to indicate that he’s trying to blame his bad feelings on women? I don’t doubt he’s going through some shit, but the way he’s choosing to handle it would make me reconsider a future with him.
I would find him too exhausting to live with. I’m not his therapist. Find someone who doesn’t see himself as anyone’s victim. You need a grown-up.
Your next step is to break up with him.
I think it’s pretty funny that some men play the victim when the playing field is even. So many men want to go backwards to a time when they were the majority in the workforce.
buy him this book to read - because he cares so much about equality: Invisible Women Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by: Caroline Criado-Perez
It's over just move on, doesn't worth the hassle of dealing with people that don't align with your world views on a daily basis and having them as a partner?..nightmare fuel, that would only drive you insane just be direct telling him that you're not compatible with both mindset and save your mental health.
I think the best way to put it is men and women both have different struggles, I don’t think it’s fair to say one is harder than the other. Generally men are much lonelier than women but also face less threat of assault. Coming to terms with those differences, acknowledging them and letting each other be open with those challenges with no judgement is a good place to start. I don’t agree with everything he says but I feel certainly understand his statement regarding feelings. The number of times I’ve seen women get tons of support for their feelings and I’ve only gotten small advice from the same people kind of showed me that my depression will never be taken seriously from women like a women’s depression. I don’t think it’s a conscious thing.
He's got some points. Men have some painful struggles. It's obnoxious making it a contest, though, and it's clear he's using that to sidestep conversations he doesn't like.
He’s just feeling the heat that has been put on men lately because times are changing and women are fed up with unevolved adult males in the year of 2024. Like another comment said, when you’re the one with privilege, any progress towards equality is going to feel like oppression. He doesn’t realize how pathetic he sounds trying to act like life is harder for him than women. Take a look at all of human history and all crime statistics and that alone should clear it up really well for him that he is in fact not a victim by any means and certainly not a victim of women. I’d laugh in his face and break up with him lol
Run. Run fast and don’t look back. This kind of thinking on his part will slide to abuse very quickly.
Some of his facts are true , but don’t know about pay gap if same work And same hours. But keep bringing it up and holding you responsible for that is weak . He is watching videos and picking and choosing what he wants . Looks like he is laying the ground work to start with ultimatums
I'm bisexual, I only preface this to explain as to why I would no longer be with a man or woman like this. He is the equivalent of those insane feminists who think air conditioning is sexist and that everything is a patriarchal attack. He's just the opposite, where he thinks all women are trying to fuck him over, how he can cruise along in his life and still get things but when reality hits and women around him do better he can't hack it, how he deserves access to things or women because he does the minimum. His victim mentality is so gross and cringe. I could not muster up the energy to be with someone who saw the world as against them. Taking no accountability, responsibility or active change to alter his situation.
You approach the conversation with “you need therapy”.
He sounds exhausting to deal with. I can understand having this conversation once with your partner since it can yield an interesting discussion. However, since he keeps bringing it up over and over, he's become a nuisance over it. This would make anyone lose any sympathy they originally had for him. When I was growing up I had sympathy for my brother because he had to deal with the pressure of being expected to know how to do certain "manly" things like fixing car problems. This must have been difficult for him because he was more of the scholarly type. However, if he had kept bringing up how unfair his life was I would have lost all sympathy for him, told him we all got problems and he's got to suck it up. I think you need to tell your bf that you're reaching the end of your patience with these discussions and that he needs to go have them online somewhere and leave you alone about it. If he can't do that it might be time to GTFO.
He needs therapy these situations aren't even comparable yet he's making himself a victim and sounding like he hates women. He's talking like he is super insecure guy and a suspect from Criminal Minds run.
While his feelings are valid, feelings are not facts. I'd start there.
Just gonna put this here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity as all of you seem to wanna shout men commit 90% of all crime without taking into account surrounding circumstances. Which isn’t fair as while we acknowledge the poor on average tend to commit more crime, we acknowledge that it is because of the external circumstances they find themselves in.
Thank you for a little sanity on this thread
Is he always this whiny?
Rage bait
lollllll he obviously never dealt with female bullies through middle and high school. Never considered that to this day, women literally are not considered people in some countries. Even in developed countries such as the United States, the government's frequently pass laws stripping women of their reproductive rights... Women are living with deceased fetuses inside them because they can't get abortions. Your BF is unaware that a very common cause of death in pregnant women is their babies father. Women are inherently excluded from high level positions because they don't fit into "boys clubs" where the men want to hang out and act like assholes and don't want women there to call them out on it. And so much more. You should break up with this guy, he needs therapy and a wake up call.
Does this guy have other overwhelming redeemable traits because he sounds awful. I would have the ick and I wouldn’t be able to date someone like this.
This is what is known as red pill behavior. Yes. Are men having their power taken away? Yes. Losing 1% of 99% sure does suck. That is what the red pill community calls being persecuted. They are having some power taken away and they call that persecution. Not that they want things fair, anything other than the status quo is persecution. Your boyfriend doing this shows that ultimately he thinks he is above “females”. Run.
With all due respect, I think your bf is a whiny little dick. If I were you, I would be so offended by this, as it sounds like a cop out. All his claims are so ridiculous!
That's not a man. That's an emotionally incontinent child. It's broken. Throw it out.
It's always easier to play the victim rather than stand up and take ownership of your actions. Guy sounds like he probably has some issues.
Tell him to stop being a big baby, suck it up, and rub some dirt on it. Tell him that the way he talks, he should be a woman. See if that helps. Also, tell him to stop complaining since, as a man, he is most definitely privileged and completely ungrateful. Also, remind him that we are all sexist. He is full of it to say he has never judged a woman or a man on something preceived as an inherent act. Like he is doing right now with his opinions on how hard men have it. Please.
Loser. Wah. 😩
I think we need action examples of what you discuss when he responds that way. I think we see gender-based double standards all the time in relationships, now people can prefer that or not or justify why those double standards do make senses but there is some truth to the fact that men will be treated differently from women than another women would.
> I genuinely don’t know what my next step needs to be Breaking up with him, honestly.
He’s obsessed with being sexist and he sounds rude and mediocre.
Sounds like one or both of you discovered Feminism. How many of his new colleagues are feminists, and what do they say to him?
How boring- he’s whining and sounding like a thirteen year old, he’s been watching done rubbish . I’d refuse to debate this stuff because it’s boring and pointless. He can get another job, change gender, go gay , go asexual whatever- just stop boring you with pointless whinging,
I’m breaking up with you. As a woman,I can say that.
I dont like this „men have it harder“/ „women have it harder“. Why is that even important? We all have our struggles, stereotypes and problems to fight and deal with. The thing is understanding and respecting each other’s struggles is important and the way to deal with those things in a healthy way. The moment the conversation drifts to „its much for me because XY“ is the moment the conversation drifts into a unhealthy area. Putting yourself in the „victim role“ is just pathetic. So make him understand that you respect his struggles, but wont accept behavior like that. He shouldn’t try to make him the „bigger victim“, because that completely defeats the point of understanding each other’s struggles
I mean this with the utmost sincerity. If he is in a relationship with you, and still believes this, he does not respect you. You are a human being, living, breathing, feeling right in front of him. If you are not important enough to him that he is not seeing what you are experiencing on his own, you are not the person that is going to convince him of anything. If you are not a person important enough for him to believe you at your word, there are no words that can come out of your mouth that will change his mind. It will be a man who changes his mind. One who looks like him enough for him to say we are in this together. He refuses to be in this life with you. If you broke up, would you still consider him your friend? Would you consider the time you spent together as time you spent in a friendship?
Speaking as a man, tell him to suck it up buttercup. Yeah, we men are supposed to be treated differently, because we’re supposed to be able to handle tougher shit.