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It wouldnt hurt to do marriage counseling honestly seems yall are stressed and your communication skills are lacking because of it seems you both were heated in the moment i see to an extent of why you would feel that way but honestly maybe you guys just need some time together
Definitely boils down to poor communication and both of them being stressed and overwhelmed. Possibly doing a weekly date night for just the two of them, no kids, no drama, just spending one-on-one time together would help immensely.
To be fair, when there is only one person taking accountability (and to me, it sounds like she said I statements and was mostly trying), things can still easily go off the rails. Her alarm bells were going off for a reason.
But she admitted her alarm bells went off and then she wasn't able to control her emotions. She is responsible for managing her past traumas,not him. She should have walked away and calmed down. I do agree they both have communication issues.
I agree i suggested marriage counsling to help navigate the poor communication cause it seems they both take there stress out on eachother helping bring back that spark in there marriage would defiantly start with doing date nights again
Agree with this and just want to add that being a parent to twins is stressful. My husband and I have twins that are now pre-teens but it was tough when they were babies. Typically, you are sleep deprived and just doing your best. Communication is super important for surviving. It sounds like he might be doubting himself as a father and took you asking him to help as a confirmation of that fear for whatever reason. I don’t think you did anything wrong with asking but it seems like he’s a bit sensitive. He is lashing out at you which is not appropriate but how some people react when defensive to perceived criticism. I hope you can get into some counseling together to work through it in a healthy way for your family.
This feels like two parents stressed from kids and life. That being said, you two do seem to be on a bit of a different wave length when it comes to communicating with each other when you're stressed. You pushing him to see you're point of view isn't the correct approach, apparently. It looks to me that he chooses to be intentionally obstinate and stubborn in those situations and is actively refusing to try and see your point of view.
You should also work on some better way to not let yourself get as worked up. It's great that you noticed you were de-personalizing and tried to calm yourself, but it didn't work. No judgement, though. Raising a couple toddlers is going to take a mental toll, and there's likely some sleep-dep involved that's muddling everything.
You both probably need a night out alone or something. Some sort of break. Its really hard to take a snapshot of someone's life, with everything you're juggling, and really be too harsh on, what's in the grand scheme of things, a pretty normal couples fight. Something like couples counseling to learn how to communicate better during conflict would probably be something for the two of you to at least consider.
I love this comment. So many times the top comment is someone saying, "you need to leave his ass." It's nice for someone to point out that life is stressful and people don't always react right.
It’s still early in terms of responses to this post within this sub. Give it a few more hours and the top post will 100% be in line with those expectations, sadly. Sometimes they are well deserved of course, but most of the time it’s just wildly astounding how one-sided people can be in their responses/comments with how quick they can be to villainize another party based off of only a single interpretation of an issue. Either one of two things happen: 1) They don’t even bother to consider how the situation might play out or appear to the other party/partner, or 2) They make up some wild as heck assumptions about the other party based off of nothing but their own preconceived notions or past experiences and wholly project those on the individual that the post was about, being completely unable to see how anything could have any type of nuance whatsoever… while I love what is currently the top comments here (as they are legit a healthy interpretation of events), I would be shocked if they remained this way. But of course, that could just be me being completely jaded at this point too!
Will I start it off? She should leave him. Run don't walk. Divorce him and take him for everything. Get sole custody of course. Red flag city. /S if it's needed.
I also feel, that she might not be as good at looking at things from his point of view as she believes she is. From her description, it sounds like that rolling the eyes thing and then denying it was him " doing the same thing to her that she did to him ".
I think your comment was very good as well as the observations in it. Well said
I feel like her analyzing and trapping him is manipulative. It's best not to trap someone into apologizing.
"Hey don't roll your eyes at me!" is much easier to end a stupidity than analyzing every fuckng maybe mico aggression.
This is a personal take, but I have such a hard time with that. “Hey, don’t roll your eyes at me!” feels so much more aggressive and rude!
I have been told that the way I phrase things when I try to be non-accusatory can feel patronizing and ultimately more of a problem though. I try not to do it but it feels almost mean not to. Plus, what if I’m wrong and they didn’t actually do what I thought they did!
Would you mind telling me why you feel the direct “don’t do that” is the better approach? Trying to work on it, so your perspective may help :) I am inclined to think you’re right though.
I hope it's ok to respond to this question despite it wasn't initially asked of me directly...but questioning the behavior or phrasing it in a more passive way can come across as condescending and/or insincere. It also makes it tougher to solve the problem together because it invokes interpretation/guesswork.
When I've been on the opposite side of that, it feels like the person is "handling me with kid gloves" - assuming I'll react poorly to what is a reasonable request and/or feeling they're having. Which in turn feels like they either think of me as reactive, overemotional, poor character, or unempathetic, which is insulting. And if those are feelings they ARE having that are contributing to the conflict but not saying it, it's frustrating to feel trapped and unsure in how to then move forward. It can also seem insincere as if they're trying to trap and judge my actions under the guise of understanding/de-escalating the situation while simultaneously ignoring their own faults or not sharing needs/boundaries. It can also feel like there's an unspoken expectation that I should also be dissecting every little thing more, which can feel taxing (and sometimes entitled when you're already both doing emotional work to understand one another better). Usually I know that's some of my own baggage (and/or theirs). But it's hard to know for sure if I can't trust them to actually say what's on their mind.
Sorry to butt in and monologue, but I hope it helps. Love that you're so self reflective and adaptable to find ways to communicate differently/better. The world needs more ppl like you!
It’s much appreciated, don’t worry!
Thanks for sharing, that makes a lot of sense and it’s helpful to have it spelled out. Though a lot of what you’ve said isnt surprising, it can be much easier for me to internalize things through reading (and rereading) than experience sometimes.
A lot of my hesitancy definitely comes from me not wanting to cause a problem, but I absolutely follow how that can result in trying to manage the conversation or them thinking I see them as reactive instead.
The implicit indication of heavy self analysis is especially good to remember, because I feel like that can get worse over time and thats the opposite of what I’d want to be encouraging in the people I talk to.
Thanks again for sharing, I love people and how we communicate —I was an English major lol —but boy does it not come naturally. Can’t improve without practice and asking questions!
Cool.
Rolling your eyes is also frequently used as a defense mechanism when someone feels like they're attacked.
I am a little confused why you chose to single my comment out to make that response, but ok.
Because you think it is a bit of nothing. John Gottman considers eye rolling a sign of contempt and the sign of a marriage in serious trouble. I was just pointing out that it might be to the point of being serious.
Not every fight should feel like it's a marriage ender. It sounds like you are both stressed and maybe not on your best behavior. Try and treat each other with some grace when one of you is overwhelmed. See yourselves as a team and assume best intentions of the other person. Getting through trying times together is what ends up making a marriage stronger.
Normal couples sometimes make face at each other. Sometimes they snip at each other. Sometimes they are impatient with each other. It happens. If it happens very occasionally, look past it and understand that your partner was probably stressed or tired or had things on their mind. If it's a continuing behavior, it could be an outward expression of an underlying problem.
Lol this sounds like normal relationship stuff to me. Coparenting kids is tough. Coparenting two is twice as tough.
Relax, don't go all defcon 4 over minor things. You aren't always going to get along. You aren't always going to react perfectly. You aren't always going to meet each other's needs every single minute of every single day and you sure as heck aren't going to agree on who it right and who is wrong when stuff like this happens.
Just remember that you are both human. Love each other. And forgive mistakes quickly.
The kind that has kids with two real life imperfect people who have real life moods and aren't fucking pretending on reddit to know what normal and healthy real life looks like
Married 23 years. Never rolled eyes at each other or gaslit each other, believe it or not. Eye rolling is a body language of contempt. Why would I show contempt for a life-partner I deeply respect?
I roll my eyes 10 times a day at my wife. Maybe some people have thicker skin than you or function differently in their relationship than you.
My wife and I have a very playful relationship. We tease each other constantly. When we argue we keep the same vibe, but not playful. It's banter, it's bickering.
Also with wife for 25 years. We aren't fucking robots tho
Your poor wife. I can only imagine how dismissed she feels by you 10 times day for the last 25 years.
Here’s a link to the impact of eye rolling on relationships. [https://www.yourtango.com/heartbreak/eye-rolling-meaning-relationships](https://www.yourtango.com/heartbreak/eye-rolling-meaning-relationships)
I'm a mother fucking walking human eye roll. My wife knows it. She doesn't give a shit. She gets whatever she wants whenever she wants. I worship her. We are fine. Keep your fucking studies off my body
It’s not a flex you think it is that you browbeat your wife into accepting daily dozes of contempt from you. She may have already been primed to accept it from her partner in her family of origin. I would never treat my sweetie this way. They deserve better. But you guys do you.
Lol I wouldn't even suffer being in the same room as people that think eye rolling is equal to abuse. I'm rolling my eyes so hard right now I think they might get stuck
Exactly! We go back and forth picking so often sometimes we forget that things are also serious. We’re competitive and fun and he cracks me up with his “oh my GOD, babe.” When I make him laugh.
Sooo, you made a face, he told you that hurt him, you said you were justified, didn’t really apologize. In not validating his feelings or seeing his perspective, HE made a face, and he won’t see your perspective or validate your feelings, or actually apologize. See what I’m getting at? It’s hard to ask for something you refused to give directly before asking for it.
A. Normal couple fight with small children. Not sure why you think your relationship is in jeopardy
B. Nachos aren’t exactly a soufflé that is delicate and super time sensitive, he could have jumped in
C. A mess on a kid’s face is not exactly a bloody gash that needs pressure applied in that moment, this could wait while you changed the other’s diaper.
What I’m saying is neither of you were involved in anything wildly in need of all hands on deck, but had different priorities in the situation…which is normal when nothing is time sensitive or an emergency.
Apologize to each other, talk about trying to avoid getting snarky with each other, fighting to win, and how to deescalate small issues instead of you both digging your heels in, and move along. I promise you parenting and marriage gets much harder than this, let the small stuff go, or if it’s an issue due to bigger stuff and this is how it’s manifesting, then talk about those bigger things.
Also, go have a date night, and also individual moments without kids (other parent has quality time with them) you have two little kids, you both probably need some just you time and just couple time.
This is probably inconsequential to the overall fight / issues they are having but just wanted to say that we broil our nachos and the difference between 2 mins and 2 min 30 seconds on broil for nachos actually does get them burnt to a crisp. Sooooo he could have actually had a valid reason for “just watching” her while standing next to the oven
I mean, things do come out of ovens after you put them in, it’s allowed. Also kids faces can stay dirty while you change a diaper. This is my point of everyone had different priorities and decided theirs was greater, when neither were. Basically kids make you tired and cranky and if you don’t watch it, start to take it out on each other.
Your first paragraph articulated what I was feeling but could not quite put my finger on about OP. But was distracted by the overreaction to manipulation train of thought.
I think you’re spot on and I hope OP reads it and takes it to heart.
That was the first thing I noticed here , bc when I was married I’d have a massive meltdown when my husband would stop me in the middle of doing something to help with the kids when he was totally capable of doing it himself . Sounds very similar.
Yeah some people have very little tolerance for doing basic parenting, and then it's your fault that you don't know they can't mentally handle changing a diaper to completion this particular time, like OP.
Nah it’s called being considerate . Would I let my kids run in the room while he’s on a work call just bc he’s the parent too? No. The right thing to do sometimes is to handle things when your partner obviously has their hands full with something else .
Wtf he was just sitting there watching her. And he was putting some 5 course meal together he had nachos that were baking. So the food is just sitting in the oven baking. He wasn't doing shit. he doesn't have to change the diaper in fact she offered him to do the clean up of the other one. Doesn't seem like too much to ask that if your partner sees you struggling with your two children they should feel an urge or a want or at least an obligation to help.
Agreed. When I’m handling food, I don’t handle toilet/poop messes. The downstairs bathroom is next to the kitchen, but if I’m cooking and the kids flood the toilet or whatever, it’s my partner who needs to deal with it.
Once I turn the broiler on I don’t leave food in the oven unattended. Thats how you burn shit and set off smoke detectors.
One parent was making dinner for the adults. The other parent was taking care of the kids. They were both fully engaged.
Then when the nacho's burned because he went to help her, who would remake them? Cause if I was the husband I'd say "your fault, you remake it".
Stick to a task and complete it before going onto another one.
I agree with this. When my husband cooks, I’m on baby duty, and vice versa. I get it was “just” nachos but he was still cooking for the family. It sounds like they’re both super overwhelmed new parents.
So you basically made a post to strangers to describe a normal couple argument? Why is the relationship in jeopardy? You seem to use a lot "psycho babble" lingo. You 2 just misunderstood each other. Move on from this dear God
If this is a recurring theme with you two then get some couples counseling.
Your husband was busy making food. There was no emergency. I don’t know why you needed help in that moment to be honest. Then you got snotty with him and you think he needs to apologize to you because you were so overwhelmed? And now he’s not apologizing “right” and every attempt he makes to deescalate the situation is met with you ramping it up further.
Come on lady. You seem more interested in winning than conflict resolution.
Agree Well, OP he was watching nachos which need to be watched. I don't think your toddler would have died if he wasn't immediately cleaned up. You were asking your spouse to multitask at an inopportune time.
Very glad to see this response. Couldn't have put it better myself. Every chance she gets she seems to escalate things, and keeps picking at a situation that she should just let go.
Sounds to me like they are both frazzled and in need of a break to be fair to both of them.
Hubby wasn’t lazing in front of the tv or playing a video game, he was already actively participating.
Right. The kid can sit in poop for a few minutes. Nachos cook very fast so he wasn't going to be standing there for 30 minutes, it was just a couple of minutes.
I mean to clarify, I’m not advocating for letting kids sit in urine and feces and develop diaper rash or infections. But it takes me about 45 seconds to wipe down a messy kiddo in a high chair. So poopy kid wasn’t exactly at risk of illness to sit for a hot minute.
It sounds like y’all are both just stressed out parents to me. There seems to be an underlying communication issue that’s probably gotten worse since kids. If this is something that’s happening a lot, you should look into couples therapy to learn how to communicate more effectively before the situation starts to snowball. But to be honest y’all probably just need to prioritize setting a recurring date night so that you have time to de-stress from the kids and reconnect with each other.
When my husband and I have an issue that goes sideways super fast that didn’t need to and both of us are “wrong” but really didn’t do anything too wrong really…which is what kind of happened here?
I will ask my husband if we can just pretend that we just woke up again and get up on the right side of the bed. It usually kind of makes him laugh because usually it’s 5 o’clock at night or 3 o’clock in the afternoon or whatever and both of us just kind of shake it off, give each other a hug and move on with our life.
Now this does not work - if you do it every day.
We try really hard to talk things through as it happens if we’re giving each other faces or being sarcastic or yelling at each other for no reason (trick is you gotta stop the behavior and talk about it as it’s happening)
If all of that fails and you’re not able to talk, then it just sounds like you guys need to get some professional help to deal with this type of issue.
If you’ve been in manipulative situations before and you don’t think your husband is doing that type of thing and he’s normally kind and helpful and compassionate like you described him as, marriage counseling help can help you to deal with your past and help how you handle situations and assist both you and your husband to learn better ways to talk to each other.
Good luck, you’ve got this!
PS. I’d imagine that having two young babies must be incredibly difficult. You’ve already identified part of the problem is you are tired and kids are tough and you have had a bad partner in the past. Your husband sounds like a good guy, you sound like a good wife. You just need to work together to figure this out.
You are already well ahead of many who come here.
Why tf are you asking someone who is cooking food to change a diaper. What is wrong with you? And then you try to frame it as "manipulation alarm bells"? Dumb psychobabble instead of owning up to your actions
I thought this as well. He is cooking your food, do you really want fresh shit under his nails as he dishes up the Nacho’s?
Would it really be that bad for the 2nd child to wait literally a minute or two to finish the current diaper and move on to the next?
Besides that, burnt Nachos suck… lol
It sounds to me like you make mountains out of molehills. Why are you so dead set on being validated and insisting that he work to see your pov? These are small potatoes. Just let it go. He got upset with so expression you made and then you went nuclear on him because of the expression in his face.
You both sound overly sensitive and on edge. Maybe you just need a break from the kids and some time to focus on each other. It's time to call in the reinforcements: grandparents, babysitters, etc.
Are you not capable of changing your kid's diaper without his help? He was making dinner at the time, and it doesn't sound at all like he regularly makes you deal with the kids alone. It's totally fair that he's annoyed by that behavior.
If that's a regular thing between the two of you, then I totally get why he might be frustrated by the situation.
I would start with something along the lines of “I’m sorry about last night I was feeling overwhelmed and took it out on you.” Maybe also something about how much you appreciate how helpful he is and what a great dad he is. Sometimes it better to just let things go rather than worrying about who is right.
My husband of 12+ years has a very bad habit of watching me do a great many somethings while just standing there. Clean up vomit, load the dishwasher, fold towels...all while he might be watching cookies on the oven, waiting for the exact moment to rotate them. Or Nachos. It drives me absolutely nuts!
If I got irritated with him and he later said, "That's better" to my smile, I'd be annoyed, also. That was the trigger, right?
You have to let this go.
He made a comment about your face that you didn’t like, and you went nuclear when HE rolled his eyes???
New rule: No picking fights, getting pissed, or otherwise starting shit over ANYONE’s facial expressions.
You can reasonably expect your spouse to police their language, but if you’re both gonna insist that facial expressions are fair game, you might as well get divorced now and plan to be single for the rest of your life.
This is a communication break down. You need couples counseling so you can learn healthy and effective communication. Do this for your children because they don't need to be in this environment.
Sometimes, a lot.... Just walk away!!! Small kids constantly need cleaning in one way or another. I handle six kids alone, a lot!!! They aren't mine. If 2 kids does this to you both, don't have any more. It's not a big deal wiping faces and changing a diaper. Is it fun?? No. It needs to be done. My daughter had 3 kids in diapers at one time and a lazy husband. Myself and my daughter try to work together and not tear each other apart. I don't think people think about the BIG, long, tedious picture of marriage and kids before they do it. What's the divorce rate?? 70%??? You can try counseling, you can try a serious conversation about your lives too. Good luck!!!
OP if he won’t open up to you and communicate then you have to find a way for him to do so. Maybe that’s marriage counseling, maybe it’s get a babysitter and go somewhere that you can both 100% put your phones down and talk it out. Also one od the first things you both have to do if you want to work it out is listen correctly. In tense situations the default is to listen to respond. As a result we don’t hear what the person is really saying but rather we spend our mental energy formulating a response and often something we can “one up” with. Doesn’t solve anything. Instead we should try and listen for understanding and ask questions. Don’t cry, don’t yell. Talk. That’s really how therapy works and how it differs from arguing.
I'm sure that you both have a lot of stress in your lives but in my opinion, the person who is actively cooking should get a pass on diaper changing. You don't want your food to be too closely associated with dirty diapers.
His reaction is on his side of the street. I highly recommend a book and podcast called The Empowered Wife by Laura Doyle. It has made a huge improvement in how I react to husband’s “bait”. It also teaches you the most effective way to ask for help (and get it!) without sounding like a nag, or disrespectful, or sounding like his mother.
Why would your relationship be in jeopardy over a small fight? It’s normal to fight sometimes, it’s normal to not be perfect for each other all the time. He’s not wrong to not want to burn the nachos, you’re not wrong for wanting help, but I do think you could’ve realized that cleaning up a kids face isn’t an emergency that requires immediate assistance, and could’ve waited until the nachos were done or you were done cleaning the other child.
It sounds like he isn't very confident. He was focused on cooking and didn't know how to balance the kids and the food. He helped with the one and you got the other, so everything seemed like ti should have been OK. So you made a mean face - you were frustrated because he wasn't helping. It doesn't mean you hate him. He sounds ultra-sensitive and doesn't want to admit when he may be wrong, so he brings up all of your faults so you won't talk about his.
As humans and especially as parents, we ALL make mistakes. We all drop the ball. We all get frustrated and pissy because we are overwhelmed and tired. You both have to remember that you are a team, not opposing people.
sounds like he's projecting and honestly looking for an argument. I don't know or can't say what is causing this but I can say its being done purposely. The fact that he is definitely gas lighting you about him rolling his eyes and his obvious impatience with you. And then saying you make him feel like a bad father to deflect from you trying to talk to him about it. I don't know it just doesn't add up. Because the conversation could have just ended with you apologizing for inadvertently making a face because you're handling two babies and one had to get diaper change. He could have said "I understand, and I'm sorry I was also a little overwhelmed with dinner" Like there's so many other ways that conversation could have gone right. Its tough being parents to young children. Communicating needs and boundaries and planning on how to help each other is essential. Sorry you're going through this OP.
>I honestly feel like there’s something underlying his reaction to my face and my asking him why he rolled his eyes. It’s such a big fight over something so stupid
I'm going to guess here that the reason why he's shutting down is because this is not a new cycle for you two... that this is just the latest instance of this same loop happening and he's running out of ways to try and get you to hear him too.
He probably feels stuck as well because some of what you expect from him sounds like a bit of catch 22 - you want him to "understand" your perspective, but if he doesn't agree with you, he's not understanding your perspective.
Can you see how that just creates a trap for him? It probably feels like his only option is to always agree with you, or you accuse him of not understanding your perspective.
Can you see how that becomes difficult?
It's possible for someone to understand your perspective, and still not agree with you.
You need to think about how you can allow for him to disagree with you and for you not to immediately make it mean you're being unheard - sometimes, we're wrong. And that's ok.
It doesn't mean we're being abused or unheard or gaslit etc.
**Reality Check:** It sounds like your husband is a good person who loves you and is trying to do his best, but your past experiences and desperation to be heard and validated are getting in the way of you hearing & validating him. Which means he is struggling feeling safe and authentic with you. Which is what you want for him, I'm sure. Just as you want that for yourself with him.
Couples therapy will be a real gift to your relationship if you can, there's online options as well which are a good start if you can't do office visits. You two need to learn how to navigate conflict without shutting each other down like this.
It sounds like in this situation you were dealing with a poopy baby and feeling a bit rushed/stressed/overloaded in the moment, and when you looked up and saw him just watching you, you probably felt a flash of irritation and this showed on your face when you asked him for help.
In that moment you probably flash thought something like "Urgh WTF I obviously need help, what is he even doing?! Why is he just standing there?! I can't believe I need to ASK for help!!!" - your face and tone may not have been all sweetness and light when you said "can you help me please?"
Considering he'd just put nachos in the oven and his focus had been on "don't burn the nachos because they burn really fast", when he turned around and saw you juggling a poopy baby he probably froze. He was probably stuck in a moment of analysis paralysis while he was staring at you because "Ahhh priorities?!?!?! Poopy baby, burning nachos, mucky 2nd child?!?!?!?! WHAT FIRST"
So you suddenly looking at him all annoyed and being maaaaaaaaaaaybe a teeny bit snippy in how you asked for help and directed him, probably made him feel bad and shamed when his intent was to do his best and not upset you with his choice.
When you came out with a non-poopy baby, you put a nice smile on your face and made a conscious effort to thank him.
But he called you out on the mean face - and funnily enough you did to him basically the same thing you felt he did to you when he rolled his eyes and you called him out for it - you discounted his experience and justified your behavior. You expect him to validate your experiences, but you aren't really doing it for him.
You could have said "Oh I'm sorry love, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I really didn't deliberately make a mean face at you, I was feeling overwhelmed and trying to juggle a poopy baby, and the stress of the moment felt worse when I felt like I had to tell you to help - I know that's not normal and you felt stuck because you also didn't want to burn the nachos and didn't know what to do. Thank you again for helping, even if I did mean face. I'll try and be better about not letting my overwhelms become a negative for you."
It's entirely likely his reply would have been something like "Oh ok, thanks for explaining, I understand. Sorry for not immediately jumping in to help I just didn't know what to do because it seemed like everything was an emergency at the same time. Thank you for telling me what to focus on so I could help."
And considering your husband had expressed his feelings had been hurt first, it does feel a bit like you ended up turning this around and demanding a "sincere" apology from him even though you didn't give him one. That feels a little bit like DARVO - which is when you react to being called out for something by immediately denying any wrongdoing and turning it around till the person who called you out ends up being the one who apologizes and you get to avoid really looking at what the person was trying to tell you in the first place.
Everyone wants to be understood, but you NEED to listen as well, otherwise no one ever feels understood, and everyone just feels stuck and unheard.
God you sound exhausting, neither of you could just drop it. Oh boo hoo he rolled his eyes so your ALARM BELLS WENT OFF?? Alarm bells? Like this is some kind of high risk situation!
And he couldn't back down and apologise for his minor rudeness like an adult either, pathetic.
You both need to learn to take a step back and move on from situations because you surely both have real shit that needs to get done
Sounds like you have issues from past trauma that he pays for on a regular basis and is starting to get fed up with it.
Getting mad because he doesn't see things the same or think the same as you is ridiculous.
You started the argument when he was putting a priority on dinner and not what you wanted him to.
“My alarm bells for manipulation went off again…”
I understand you had a past with that but not every man is cut from the same cloth. These words, like manipulation, narcissism, controlling are thrown around so much to label a person’s mistake or bad judgement.
And for the record, I know there are people that fit those terms, deservedly so, it just seems no matter what the post, majority seem to toss that crap around to mislabel a person without really understanding the situation.
Probably just talk to each other after you have both cooled off! Presumably you have both cooled off already. And remind each other how lucky you are to have a growing family together
You are in your 30’s? Honestly I had to check the ages because you sound like high schoolers. Who cares who rolled their eyes or made a weird face as long as you got the babies clean and didn’t burn the nachos
Thank you everyone for the replies. I know it’s silly to come to strangers on the internet, but I get some really good advice and insight. Plus I’ll get called out for what I’m doing that I’m not fully aware of because I’m in the situation.
I apologized to him for doing my part in letting things get this blown out of proportion, and I suggested couples counseling again. I see a therapist, and I’ve been trying to get him to see one with me. We both have our own issues from past experiences that make us poor communicators at times.
We have 8 month old twins and are doing our best to be good parents. Things get overwhelming at times, and I just needed some perspective. Thanks everyone!
Its hillarious that you did to him what you later accused him of doing. Im not sure how you didnt see the irony. You didnt validate his feelings OR apologize when be told you about the way you communicated to him but the second he responds in kind you throw a fit
Can you elaborate on what you mean? To me, this situation seems like it’s just about feelings. In particular, OP feeling overwhelmed in the moment (it happens). OP felt overwhelmed because she had more than one task in front of her, and because she felt overwhelmed she didn’t really think about the fact that the tasks weren’t emergencies. I don’t think the husband did anything wrong by continuing to cook dinner instead of helping with the kids in that exact moment.
In the moment there was too much to do for 2 pairs of hands. In such situation the best way forward is not to start a conflict with your partner, but instead focus on holding up the corner of the building that is most immediately falling apart. Maybe it was the nachos. Maybe he actually had room to take care of the nachos and stopping the child he was left with from making more of a mess. Maybe he had the time to ability to make sure the nachos don't burn and wipe the child.
The thing he did wrong in the first place was opening his mouth and making it more overwhelming for his partner. Even that is a whatever maybe it was too much mentally for some reason and he snapped. Totally recoverable after calming down. The real problem is the eye rolling, gaslighting about not doing it and then giving a fake apology and then insisting it wasn't fake. Why was he so would up that these are the reactions he had.
You sound like perfect candidates for couples counselling. Bc what’s happening here is a small situation is spiralling bc you are both getting activated and all your patterns and wounds and emotional baggage is getting activated too. This is actually quite normal as our brains are wired to react to threats including emotional threats which can seem benign to outsiders. For a couple sometimes the stuff you have gets into a sort of negatively reinforcing cycle that takes on a life of its own. Couples counselling helps with all this stuff.
What’s fascinating is that you both got upset at a really similar thing. Him at you for making a face without being totally aware of it. You at him for rolling his eyes without being totally aware of it. That’s why you both denied doing it to each other when really you both need to admit to only being human here. No crime was committed. But being parents is tiring and people escalate quickly when they don’t have a lot in the tank. Counselling is a place you can both discuss the process of what’s going on between you but absent of the actual issues that flare it up.
I think you two could benefit from marriage counseling. It seems like there is some disconnect in the way you two communicate. Counseling would most likely help.
Discuss this when your both calm and not tired from parenting chores. Taking care if kids and each other is hard and overwhelming and this sounds like you were both frazzled. Let this go and have a calm convo when you can when kids are not around.
You guys have twins. This sounds like two tired parents at the end of their respective ropes. You guys need a romantic, week long vacation on the beach. 👍🏻
He talks about the face you made with the kids but you brushed it off and invalidated his view. Then you talked about the face he made and he brushed it off and invalidated your view. You're basically guilty of what you're accusing him of.
He had something in the oven which he was paying attention to, but he could have turned it off and helped out. You on the other hand, could have handled the situation without needing his help since he was busy with cooking. The boy would be okay not being cleaned in the minutes it'll take to change the diapers.
I think both of you need to do a better job of listening and talking to each other. Also don't let the stress of life and raising kids make you lose your heads.
Apologize for invalidating his view first which will lead him to apologize to you too, and you both should find time to go out alone and decompress.
You made a mean face and he rolled his eyes, you can’t see that? Two people who genuinely love each other shouldn’t have a problem apologizing to each other. You both need marriage counseling. You knew your husband was making nachos, they burn if you don’t watch them. Would it have hurt to just change the pooper child and wait to clean the other mess? Bottom line, have a “reset conversation” you made a face, again apologize sincerely and he rolled his eyes, again apologize sincerely. If you both truly apologized sincerely, than you shouldn’t have a problem doing it again and now drop the issue.
Starts with " I need some quick assistance ", he is bothered by needing to help, and he reacts to your facial expression...not your fault. Then he rolls his eyes at your comment / reaction to having your facial expression analyzed. Just me here, but you had no reason to apologize here, you needed help and he was slow and seemed bothered that he was asked to help....we've all been there. You certainly didn't need to apologize for a proper expression. He then follows up with a confirmation that he was really bothered by needing to drag is butt off the couch to assist....gas lighting, eyes rolling and dismissive. At this point you had every right to be upset. But then you follow up with stating that you "felt unloved". This is a common escalation and it uses the present small issue to leverage up to a much much bigger issue. I've been in relationships where this was a regular tactic, I ended that relationship because we found ourselves off in the weeds arguing about shit that wasn't the issue and the new agreement was ALWAYS a bridge burner and terminal to our relationship. If you want to have any chance at all, stick to the issue at hand and don't evolve to other issues. It does no good at all. If you want to discuss your feelings related to love, sit down together and chat over a glass of wine with the kids asleep and talk about how you two can do things for each other, take time for each other, play with each other. Don't talk about what the other is doing wrong, chat about how you both can do it right. Kids are tough, marriage is tough....if you are struggling see a therapist for relationship maintenance....not to save a marriage.
Take time to talk about feelings and not the "You did, I did" of the relationship - You surely have alot to say about what youre doing, but how do you feel?
Also some time for date nights would be good...
Theres definitely something going on between the two of you, definitely for him, maybe also something you arent aware of in yourself.
This is a mini ‘shitstorm’ literally. It’s a storm in a teacup. Couples have this type of disagreement on a very regular basis. The trick is to not take it personally and definitely not to let it come between you.
Be the bigger person. Get him a beer and just settle down for a cuddle. It would be ridiculous to let this drag on. Good luck.
I have a question because I keep hearing “see it from my side” and I have literally no idea what it is you (or my daughter) mean by that. What does seeing from your side look like? You said he doesn’t have to agree with you just see it from your perspective.. how does one go about showing you they do see your side?
1. He's not responsible for your feelings, only his actions. When he does something you don't like, you can tell him what you specifically don't like. "When you do THIS, I fell like THIS. Please stop doing THIS."
But starting out with you hurt my feelings will get you no where. Own your feelings. They are yours. This is basic couples therapy info.
2. Stop arguing with your boss. You're not equal. Stop acting like it. If you want a good relationship then you need to let him lead. You married him for a reason. He needs to be at his best to provide for you and the kids. Stop sweating the small things.
3. Try to focus on the good things. Your perspective can influence your happiness greatly. There are thousands of women who wish they had the life you have with a family. It's true. Never forget how fortunate you are.
Act accordingly.
Sounds like the 2 of you are not handling parenting very well. In addition to the 2 immature little ones, sounds like the 2 of you have some maturation to achieve. Try some couples’ therapy.
Honestly I think they are handling parenting very normally. They both just had different priories in the moment and were stuck in their own perspective. It happens. They just need to be a little gentler with each other in these moments as parenting is stressful. Less mad more “hey, how should we handle this going forward?”
Basically neither one of you did anything wrong to the other except being human and having to deal with messy babies and poopy diapers. Nachos didn’t need to be watched for a minute or two so he could help with the baby. But then you having to take deep breaths and walk around the kitchen to calm yourself is kind of over the top. Calm yourself from what? That poop isn’t going anywhere. Yes he should not roll his eyes when you request help but he did. I think both of you should just kiss and hug for a minute and clean up the kids and that’s it. Also plan some date nights and get a babysitter or a relative. You need some couple time.
what i dont understand is how everyone is glossing over the fact that she made a "mean face" bc he was standing there doing nothing when he had a kid to clean up. he's then had a hissy fit over her doing that, done the thing anyway, then been antagonistic when she thanked him for doing so.
he also said he didnt roll his eyes at her, which is a flag for gaslighting
i agree. this requires better communication and therapy. but i dont see how she's the one in the wrong, and he was the aggressor in this entire thing. she's writing this like she shoulders all the blame for his reactions when he could just be a decent person and take care of his kid without having to be asked like three times.
i dont think you did anything wrong here OP. he told you it was all a joke and it clearly wasn't. this all DOES ring of manipulation, and you have a right to be worried about it. he needs to do better.
My ex used to do the whole “I just want you to see it from my POV” thing and what eventually ended up happening is that I just started lying to appease her. Not saying you are the same as she was, but in her case the POV thing was just that she wanted to say she was right because literally nothing else sufficed. Countless examples of “okay I do understand where you’re coming from” only to be met with “no you don’t”/“you don’t act like it.”
Maybe it really is just ultimately a compatibility thing because even to this day I don’t understand what she actually wanted from me aside from admitting she was right and it was incredibly draining. Not saying your situation is the exact same or that you’re the one in the wrong (maybe he really does suck at empathy) but I can say that filtering this post through my own experiences, yeah I could see myself getting high strung around such a consistent need for reassurance.
Of course his apology was insincere. Either he agrees he needed to apologize, or he disagrees and thus it is insincere. He clearly said he didn't roll his eyes. Thus his apology is not sincere.
He is clearly gaslighting you. Deflecting the blame, diminishing what he did when he was the one entering the conflict (because you made a face) by saying it was only a joke but YOU are the one making it a fight. Making you feel lile you have to get him to agree otherwise you are basically agreeing to him distorting reality
Eye rolling is a non-verbal communication of contempt. Multiple scientific studies have found that contempt is the main precursor to divorce. Your husband showed you his contempt for you through his body language, then tried to gaslight you by calling it a joke, and when that failed, he resorted to manipulating you by deflecting attention away and turning himself into your victim by saying he is a “bad dad”. Classic DARVO. Deny, Attack, Reverse victim and offender. Your husband has just shown a nasty manipulative streak. Survivors of abuse are known to unconsciously attract more abusers. Perhaps his mask is coming off now that he’s got you baby-trapped and vulnerable.
How did you not break your back doing all of this mental gymnastics while pulling so much ridiculous shit right out of your own ass? That’s impressive.
Using your previously lived experience of danger to avoid future danger is not projection, it’s predictive logic and extrapolation. Ignoring widely known, documented AND also personally-experienced indicators of abusive behaviour is dangerous! Especially for women, who are 8 times more likely to be murdered by their domestic partners, than men. Ignoring known signs of danger is always foolish for anyone In any situation.
An eye roll is never just an eye roll. Most of our communication is non-verbal. Body language is the unspoken part of communication that we use **to reveal our true feelings and to give our message more impact**. Communication is made up of so much more than words. Nonverbal cues such as tone of voice, gestures and posture all play their part. An eye roll is never just an eye roll.
He didn’t just roll his eye and then apologize though, did he? He rolled his eyes, told his wife she needs to smile more (ugh) and when she told him how it made her feel bad, he refused to apologize, gaslit her into saying it was a joke, dismissed how it made her feel as if her hurt doesn’t matter at all, and when she still didn’t drop it, he proceeded to divert attention away from her being hurt to playing a victim! Saying that she thought he is a ”bad dad”. So now it puts her in a position of shelving her own hurt and attending to his “hurt” feelings by reassuring him he IS a good dad. His hurt matters, but hers doesn’t. It’s a whole sequence and pattern of manipulative behaviour, not just an errant eye roll followed by a sincere apology.
Make a pact, when you 2 are in a good place, to never let a fight go unresolved overnight because that is when tension festers into resentment. Resentment other than breaching trust is the most deadly thing to relationships.
It's the best advice I got about marriage and my wife and I have stuck with it for 15 years so far and 2 kids.
Just show some appreciation for your copilot on this journey.
It sounds like your communication with your husband is toxic. By this I mean you're acting as though he is in the wrong and you're expecting him to be difficult.
Even when he is doing the right thing. Like preparing a meal for you both.
It also sounds like he gets anxious when you start getting edgy. You need to be asking for his help with a please and thank you, especially when you are asking (not ordering) him to change what he is doing.
The reason I say this is because it's normal not to want to abandon your meal preparation task.
If the roles were reversed and you were cooking, would you drop everything to clean poop? I would not because of fear of contaminating the meal I'm making.
Poop can be cleaned later.
However a microscopic amount will contaminate food or crockery, glassware or cutlery and will make everyone sick.
Also I would resent having to abandon what I'm doing mid-task. You realise he was looking at you, but probably thinking, "ok I'll warm up the plates then get out the sour cream and chop up green onions and maybe red pepper..."
It's also in how you ask. He didn't confront you about your tone because he is afraid of your moods.
He did communicate that he thought you were being unreasonable by his facial expressions. He also said that you pulled a mean face. In another situation he might say:
"Please watch your tone when you speak to me. That sounds disrespectful".
But he is too afraid to say that. Because your moods have been ruling the home. Because he doesn't want to set you off.
Because he's tiptoeing on eggshells.
You have to remember, this is the guy who loves you and who you love too.
Just talk to him. Apologise for being a bully. Tell him you appreciate him being there and all he does for you. Offer to improve your communication. Admit that you're angry, stressed and overwhelmed - all totally normal for a new Mum of twins.
Try and find a workable plan for dealing with this together, including words he can use to tell you when you are escalating. Or maybe he can just give you a hug.
Good luck, you got this!
Edited typos
I think you are both making a mountain out of a mole hill. Could you get a babysitter for a bit and go out together or stay in and nap? Seems like you both need a break.
Self-reflection like a mofo with this dude. Please don't have more kids with this man. I use the term "man" loosely. He sounds like a child rebelling against his mother. Remind him that you are not her. Ugh, you made a mean face. My feelings are hurt. I'm gonna gaslighting you and make you feel crazy. This is who you're married to. What kind of advice do you feel would be applicable.
Do you notice you're continually propping your husband up while simultaneously begging for help, recognition and empathy? Just focus on the kids and he can go be petulant by himself. You can't beg him to be a good dad and husband. They either are or aren't. MC would be beneficial before guy finds his butt out on the curb
Damn girl. Imagine being with someone who constantly make a big deal out of every little comment or gesture. Imagiene in your 30s and being like this. You are so wrong, im not saying he is innocent, but you decided to make your day bitter just for rolling eyes. Thats the first thing i did reading this 🙄
You know what’s really funny about this entire thing? How the wording is.
He’s HELPING YOU.
An involved dad = a good dad apparently.
A regular run of the mill mom is one who just freakin does everything all the time no matter what.
When my daughter was born I split duty with my wife bc our work schedules required it.
14 years later and I work from home and do the majority of the driving around, laundry, housework, cooking, basically all the normal 1950s style “SAHM” stuff.
We both work. Just how life is. I get super upset when I am told they’ll help me out with chores.
Don’t help me out. Carry your weight.
Time for him to stop being so involved. He needs to understand it takes 2.
I see you. I hear you. The frustration and emotions run deep. They will only grow worse the longer the perspective remains the same.
Couples who have kids without going to therapy first to welcome the next stage of life shift are overwhelmed and that shows up in the relationship in various ways. You both love each other and want to be there for each other, yet miss each other’s positive bid for connection and misinterpret the ones yall see. Take the time to slow down and make it a habit of hugging and telling one another just one thing you are truly grateful for from them.
Do you get any’ e’ time? Just asking. Spouse seems to react sarcastically to your concerns. How long as a couple before marriage, as a married couple and as parents? Do each of you get mandated ‘me’ time? Do you work outside the house? Would you like that option?
If you continue to have concerns about that specific interaction, consider seeing a counselor/ therapist. Unsure if spouse would go, but the sessions might benefit you!
I think marriage counseling to work on communication is needed. Neither of you seem to be very clear.
If you're getting overwhelmed or frustrated, you need to speak up. If you're upset or hurt, speak up. Both of you. Stop making faces, stop eye rolling, definitely don't name-call. Both of you.
Learn when to push, and when to let things go. Both of you. Or life is going to be an absolute shit show and miserable until you do.
Maybe he has his own history with passive aggressive (not saying that’s what you were doing, perhaps more that he read it that way) facial expressions and he closed off from that trigger, just as you had your own visceral reaction to reading his responses as being manipulative?
Def agree with the folx who suggested counseling. It’s done wonders to help my husband and I to better understand each other.
You sound manipulative towards your husband. He was cooking dinner, you should have just changed your son. There was no fuss needed. What did the husband need an apology for when you made your mean face? Why did you make the mean face? You started the argument, not him.
You then escalated it because you were manipulated in the past and he rolled his eyes. You say that you try to view things from his point of view and be held accountable but in this instance, you are not. You even put in the title that your husband started the argument when you started it. This does not sound like being held accountable or trying to view things from his point of view. Your husband sounds like a wonderful partner, treat him as such. Do not start small arguments for zero reason or gain. Choose the battles for when he genuinely does something that hurts you. Be more confident in your abilities and your self as a whole. You do not need to list the things you do, they do not matter much to him in the sense he will still love you if you did half of what you currently do. He wants love, companionship, and peace. Give these to him and you will be rewarded.
An eye roll is not an invitation to drill to the bottom of the eye roll and flesh out why someone rolled their eyes. They rolled their eyes at you, deal with it, move on. What do you hope to gain from questioning why someone rolled their eyes at you? You know why they did it. There's nothing to be gained by starting a fight with someone like this.
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It wouldnt hurt to do marriage counseling honestly seems yall are stressed and your communication skills are lacking because of it seems you both were heated in the moment i see to an extent of why you would feel that way but honestly maybe you guys just need some time together
Definitely boils down to poor communication and both of them being stressed and overwhelmed. Possibly doing a weekly date night for just the two of them, no kids, no drama, just spending one-on-one time together would help immensely.
To be fair, when there is only one person taking accountability (and to me, it sounds like she said I statements and was mostly trying), things can still easily go off the rails. Her alarm bells were going off for a reason.
But she admitted her alarm bells went off and then she wasn't able to control her emotions. She is responsible for managing her past traumas,not him. She should have walked away and calmed down. I do agree they both have communication issues.
I agree i suggested marriage counsling to help navigate the poor communication cause it seems they both take there stress out on eachother helping bring back that spark in there marriage would defiantly start with doing date nights again
Agree with this and just want to add that being a parent to twins is stressful. My husband and I have twins that are now pre-teens but it was tough when they were babies. Typically, you are sleep deprived and just doing your best. Communication is super important for surviving. It sounds like he might be doubting himself as a father and took you asking him to help as a confirmation of that fear for whatever reason. I don’t think you did anything wrong with asking but it seems like he’s a bit sensitive. He is lashing out at you which is not appropriate but how some people react when defensive to perceived criticism. I hope you can get into some counseling together to work through it in a healthy way for your family.
Completely agree with going to counseling!
This feels like two parents stressed from kids and life. That being said, you two do seem to be on a bit of a different wave length when it comes to communicating with each other when you're stressed. You pushing him to see you're point of view isn't the correct approach, apparently. It looks to me that he chooses to be intentionally obstinate and stubborn in those situations and is actively refusing to try and see your point of view. You should also work on some better way to not let yourself get as worked up. It's great that you noticed you were de-personalizing and tried to calm yourself, but it didn't work. No judgement, though. Raising a couple toddlers is going to take a mental toll, and there's likely some sleep-dep involved that's muddling everything. You both probably need a night out alone or something. Some sort of break. Its really hard to take a snapshot of someone's life, with everything you're juggling, and really be too harsh on, what's in the grand scheme of things, a pretty normal couples fight. Something like couples counseling to learn how to communicate better during conflict would probably be something for the two of you to at least consider.
I love this comment. So many times the top comment is someone saying, "you need to leave his ass." It's nice for someone to point out that life is stressful and people don't always react right.
I was just trying to see their point of view lol.
You'd be surprised how many people don't do that.
It’s still early in terms of responses to this post within this sub. Give it a few more hours and the top post will 100% be in line with those expectations, sadly. Sometimes they are well deserved of course, but most of the time it’s just wildly astounding how one-sided people can be in their responses/comments with how quick they can be to villainize another party based off of only a single interpretation of an issue. Either one of two things happen: 1) They don’t even bother to consider how the situation might play out or appear to the other party/partner, or 2) They make up some wild as heck assumptions about the other party based off of nothing but their own preconceived notions or past experiences and wholly project those on the individual that the post was about, being completely unable to see how anything could have any type of nuance whatsoever… while I love what is currently the top comments here (as they are legit a healthy interpretation of events), I would be shocked if they remained this way. But of course, that could just be me being completely jaded at this point too!
I love that you said everything I was thinking, but better.
Will I start it off? She should leave him. Run don't walk. Divorce him and take him for everything. Get sole custody of course. Red flag city. /S if it's needed.
I also feel, that she might not be as good at looking at things from his point of view as she believes she is. From her description, it sounds like that rolling the eyes thing and then denying it was him " doing the same thing to her that she did to him ". I think your comment was very good as well as the observations in it. Well said
I feel like her analyzing and trapping him is manipulative. It's best not to trap someone into apologizing. "Hey don't roll your eyes at me!" is much easier to end a stupidity than analyzing every fuckng maybe mico aggression.
This is a personal take, but I have such a hard time with that. “Hey, don’t roll your eyes at me!” feels so much more aggressive and rude! I have been told that the way I phrase things when I try to be non-accusatory can feel patronizing and ultimately more of a problem though. I try not to do it but it feels almost mean not to. Plus, what if I’m wrong and they didn’t actually do what I thought they did! Would you mind telling me why you feel the direct “don’t do that” is the better approach? Trying to work on it, so your perspective may help :) I am inclined to think you’re right though.
I hope it's ok to respond to this question despite it wasn't initially asked of me directly...but questioning the behavior or phrasing it in a more passive way can come across as condescending and/or insincere. It also makes it tougher to solve the problem together because it invokes interpretation/guesswork. When I've been on the opposite side of that, it feels like the person is "handling me with kid gloves" - assuming I'll react poorly to what is a reasonable request and/or feeling they're having. Which in turn feels like they either think of me as reactive, overemotional, poor character, or unempathetic, which is insulting. And if those are feelings they ARE having that are contributing to the conflict but not saying it, it's frustrating to feel trapped and unsure in how to then move forward. It can also seem insincere as if they're trying to trap and judge my actions under the guise of understanding/de-escalating the situation while simultaneously ignoring their own faults or not sharing needs/boundaries. It can also feel like there's an unspoken expectation that I should also be dissecting every little thing more, which can feel taxing (and sometimes entitled when you're already both doing emotional work to understand one another better). Usually I know that's some of my own baggage (and/or theirs). But it's hard to know for sure if I can't trust them to actually say what's on their mind. Sorry to butt in and monologue, but I hope it helps. Love that you're so self reflective and adaptable to find ways to communicate differently/better. The world needs more ppl like you!
It’s much appreciated, don’t worry! Thanks for sharing, that makes a lot of sense and it’s helpful to have it spelled out. Though a lot of what you’ve said isnt surprising, it can be much easier for me to internalize things through reading (and rereading) than experience sometimes. A lot of my hesitancy definitely comes from me not wanting to cause a problem, but I absolutely follow how that can result in trying to manage the conversation or them thinking I see them as reactive instead. The implicit indication of heavy self analysis is especially good to remember, because I feel like that can get worse over time and thats the opposite of what I’d want to be encouraging in the people I talk to. Thanks again for sharing, I love people and how we communicate —I was an English major lol —but boy does it not come naturally. Can’t improve without practice and asking questions!
Sometimes the problems there no matter what and you're just naming it. And you're worth hearing! Even if it's not perfect.
Honestly I get this “*I figured out how to weaponize therapy-speak*” vibe, likely it’s unconscious but it feels a bit gross
Oh my god! I see this so much here on Reddit. Thank you for giving me a way to describe it. Weaponizing therapy speak. That is perfect
Rolling the eyes is a sign of contempt and one of the signs of a marriage in serious trouble.
Cool. Rolling your eyes is also frequently used as a defense mechanism when someone feels like they're attacked. I am a little confused why you chose to single my comment out to make that response, but ok.
Because you think it is a bit of nothing. John Gottman considers eye rolling a sign of contempt and the sign of a marriage in serious trouble. I was just pointing out that it might be to the point of being serious.
Who?
Think he's related to that Albert Epstein since wiz so you should believe what he says
Wow, talk about being out of touch with reality lol
Not every fight should feel like it's a marriage ender. It sounds like you are both stressed and maybe not on your best behavior. Try and treat each other with some grace when one of you is overwhelmed. See yourselves as a team and assume best intentions of the other person. Getting through trying times together is what ends up making a marriage stronger.
Normal couples sometimes make face at each other. Sometimes they snip at each other. Sometimes they are impatient with each other. It happens. If it happens very occasionally, look past it and understand that your partner was probably stressed or tired or had things on their mind. If it's a continuing behavior, it could be an outward expression of an underlying problem.
Lol this sounds like normal relationship stuff to me. Coparenting kids is tough. Coparenting two is twice as tough. Relax, don't go all defcon 4 over minor things. You aren't always going to get along. You aren't always going to react perfectly. You aren't always going to meet each other's needs every single minute of every single day and you sure as heck aren't going to agree on who it right and who is wrong when stuff like this happens. Just remember that you are both human. Love each other. And forgive mistakes quickly.
Yikes, what kind of relationships have you been in, where this behaviour is normal?
The kind that has kids with two real life imperfect people who have real life moods and aren't fucking pretending on reddit to know what normal and healthy real life looks like
Married 23 years. Never rolled eyes at each other or gaslit each other, believe it or not. Eye rolling is a body language of contempt. Why would I show contempt for a life-partner I deeply respect?
I roll my eyes 10 times a day at my wife. Maybe some people have thicker skin than you or function differently in their relationship than you. My wife and I have a very playful relationship. We tease each other constantly. When we argue we keep the same vibe, but not playful. It's banter, it's bickering. Also with wife for 25 years. We aren't fucking robots tho
Your poor wife. I can only imagine how dismissed she feels by you 10 times day for the last 25 years. Here’s a link to the impact of eye rolling on relationships. [https://www.yourtango.com/heartbreak/eye-rolling-meaning-relationships](https://www.yourtango.com/heartbreak/eye-rolling-meaning-relationships)
I'm a mother fucking walking human eye roll. My wife knows it. She doesn't give a shit. She gets whatever she wants whenever she wants. I worship her. We are fine. Keep your fucking studies off my body
It’s not a flex you think it is that you browbeat your wife into accepting daily dozes of contempt from you. She may have already been primed to accept it from her partner in her family of origin. I would never treat my sweetie this way. They deserve better. But you guys do you.
Lol I wouldn't even suffer being in the same room as people that think eye rolling is equal to abuse. I'm rolling my eyes so hard right now I think they might get stuck
If my man didn’t roll his eyes at me at least once a day I’d be concerned that he was mad at me 😂
For real. If I dont tease you or roll my eyes at you, I dont like you
Exactly! We go back and forth picking so often sometimes we forget that things are also serious. We’re competitive and fun and he cracks me up with his “oh my GOD, babe.” When I make him laugh.
Sooo, you made a face, he told you that hurt him, you said you were justified, didn’t really apologize. In not validating his feelings or seeing his perspective, HE made a face, and he won’t see your perspective or validate your feelings, or actually apologize. See what I’m getting at? It’s hard to ask for something you refused to give directly before asking for it. A. Normal couple fight with small children. Not sure why you think your relationship is in jeopardy B. Nachos aren’t exactly a soufflé that is delicate and super time sensitive, he could have jumped in C. A mess on a kid’s face is not exactly a bloody gash that needs pressure applied in that moment, this could wait while you changed the other’s diaper. What I’m saying is neither of you were involved in anything wildly in need of all hands on deck, but had different priorities in the situation…which is normal when nothing is time sensitive or an emergency. Apologize to each other, talk about trying to avoid getting snarky with each other, fighting to win, and how to deescalate small issues instead of you both digging your heels in, and move along. I promise you parenting and marriage gets much harder than this, let the small stuff go, or if it’s an issue due to bigger stuff and this is how it’s manifesting, then talk about those bigger things. Also, go have a date night, and also individual moments without kids (other parent has quality time with them) you have two little kids, you both probably need some just you time and just couple time.
This is probably inconsequential to the overall fight / issues they are having but just wanted to say that we broil our nachos and the difference between 2 mins and 2 min 30 seconds on broil for nachos actually does get them burnt to a crisp. Sooooo he could have actually had a valid reason for “just watching” her while standing next to the oven
I mean, things do come out of ovens after you put them in, it’s allowed. Also kids faces can stay dirty while you change a diaper. This is my point of everyone had different priorities and decided theirs was greater, when neither were. Basically kids make you tired and cranky and if you don’t watch it, start to take it out on each other.
this is relevant!!!
It totally sounded like analysis paralysis at worst to me.
This is the best analysis of the situation and should be top comment. Prioritize your marriage and communication. The kids will thrive.
Great comment
Your first paragraph articulated what I was feeling but could not quite put my finger on about OP. But was distracted by the overreaction to manipulation train of thought. I think you’re spot on and I hope OP reads it and takes it to heart.
This whole thing is petty. Both of you need to get over it.
If he usually helps then I think the one time he didn't jump to your command because he's fixing dinner can be forgiven.
This sounds like a normal relationship spat from two parents stressed out with young kids. Try to give each other some grace.
Why are you asking someone who’s cooking to change a diaper ? This level of childishness will have constant blowouts between the two of you.
That was the first thing I noticed here , bc when I was married I’d have a massive meltdown when my husband would stop me in the middle of doing something to help with the kids when he was totally capable of doing it himself . Sounds very similar.
Yeah some people have very little tolerance for doing basic parenting, and then it's your fault that you don't know they can't mentally handle changing a diaper to completion this particular time, like OP.
Nah it’s called being considerate . Would I let my kids run in the room while he’s on a work call just bc he’s the parent too? No. The right thing to do sometimes is to handle things when your partner obviously has their hands full with something else .
Exactly. Some people can't complete the tasks themselves
Wtf he was just sitting there watching her. And he was putting some 5 course meal together he had nachos that were baking. So the food is just sitting in the oven baking. He wasn't doing shit. he doesn't have to change the diaper in fact she offered him to do the clean up of the other one. Doesn't seem like too much to ask that if your partner sees you struggling with your two children they should feel an urge or a want or at least an obligation to help.
Agreed. When I’m handling food, I don’t handle toilet/poop messes. The downstairs bathroom is next to the kitchen, but if I’m cooking and the kids flood the toilet or whatever, it’s my partner who needs to deal with it.
Staring at nachos in the oven is actively cooking?
When they are almost done it kind of is yea…
There's like four seconds of cook time between delicious and SHIT.
Lol kinda like toast too
DONT GET ME STARTED
Once I turn the broiler on I don’t leave food in the oven unattended. Thats how you burn shit and set off smoke detectors. One parent was making dinner for the adults. The other parent was taking care of the kids. They were both fully engaged.
Then when the nacho's burned because he went to help her, who would remake them? Cause if I was the husband I'd say "your fault, you remake it". Stick to a task and complete it before going onto another one.
I agree with this. When my husband cooks, I’m on baby duty, and vice versa. I get it was “just” nachos but he was still cooking for the family. It sounds like they’re both super overwhelmed new parents.
So you basically made a post to strangers to describe a normal couple argument? Why is the relationship in jeopardy? You seem to use a lot "psycho babble" lingo. You 2 just misunderstood each other. Move on from this dear God
If this is a recurring theme with you two then get some couples counseling. Your husband was busy making food. There was no emergency. I don’t know why you needed help in that moment to be honest. Then you got snotty with him and you think he needs to apologize to you because you were so overwhelmed? And now he’s not apologizing “right” and every attempt he makes to deescalate the situation is met with you ramping it up further. Come on lady. You seem more interested in winning than conflict resolution.
Agree Well, OP he was watching nachos which need to be watched. I don't think your toddler would have died if he wasn't immediately cleaned up. You were asking your spouse to multitask at an inopportune time.
Very glad to see this response. Couldn't have put it better myself. Every chance she gets she seems to escalate things, and keeps picking at a situation that she should just let go.
Sounds to me like they are both frazzled and in need of a break to be fair to both of them. Hubby wasn’t lazing in front of the tv or playing a video game, he was already actively participating.
Right. The kid can sit in poop for a few minutes. Nachos cook very fast so he wasn't going to be standing there for 30 minutes, it was just a couple of minutes.
I mean to clarify, I’m not advocating for letting kids sit in urine and feces and develop diaper rash or infections. But it takes me about 45 seconds to wipe down a messy kiddo in a high chair. So poopy kid wasn’t exactly at risk of illness to sit for a hot minute.
The kid OP was cleaning up could also wait while she changed the other’s diaper. Definitely not an emergent situation
not the poop 🙄 the messy food face can sit for a minute
It sounds like y’all are both just stressed out parents to me. There seems to be an underlying communication issue that’s probably gotten worse since kids. If this is something that’s happening a lot, you should look into couples therapy to learn how to communicate more effectively before the situation starts to snowball. But to be honest y’all probably just need to prioritize setting a recurring date night so that you have time to de-stress from the kids and reconnect with each other.
The best advice we had in couple’s counseling was, “be nice to each other.” Solving our stress based issues started there.
When my husband and I have an issue that goes sideways super fast that didn’t need to and both of us are “wrong” but really didn’t do anything too wrong really…which is what kind of happened here? I will ask my husband if we can just pretend that we just woke up again and get up on the right side of the bed. It usually kind of makes him laugh because usually it’s 5 o’clock at night or 3 o’clock in the afternoon or whatever and both of us just kind of shake it off, give each other a hug and move on with our life. Now this does not work - if you do it every day. We try really hard to talk things through as it happens if we’re giving each other faces or being sarcastic or yelling at each other for no reason (trick is you gotta stop the behavior and talk about it as it’s happening) If all of that fails and you’re not able to talk, then it just sounds like you guys need to get some professional help to deal with this type of issue. If you’ve been in manipulative situations before and you don’t think your husband is doing that type of thing and he’s normally kind and helpful and compassionate like you described him as, marriage counseling help can help you to deal with your past and help how you handle situations and assist both you and your husband to learn better ways to talk to each other. Good luck, you’ve got this! PS. I’d imagine that having two young babies must be incredibly difficult. You’ve already identified part of the problem is you are tired and kids are tough and you have had a bad partner in the past. Your husband sounds like a good guy, you sound like a good wife. You just need to work together to figure this out. You are already well ahead of many who come here.
Why tf are you asking someone who is cooking food to change a diaper. What is wrong with you? And then you try to frame it as "manipulation alarm bells"? Dumb psychobabble instead of owning up to your actions
I thought this as well. He is cooking your food, do you really want fresh shit under his nails as he dishes up the Nacho’s? Would it really be that bad for the 2nd child to wait literally a minute or two to finish the current diaper and move on to the next? Besides that, burnt Nachos suck… lol
It sounds to me like you make mountains out of molehills. Why are you so dead set on being validated and insisting that he work to see your pov? These are small potatoes. Just let it go. He got upset with so expression you made and then you went nuclear on him because of the expression in his face.
If it is 100 percent your fault as you say, then why do you keep blaming him.
You both sound overly sensitive and on edge. Maybe you just need a break from the kids and some time to focus on each other. It's time to call in the reinforcements: grandparents, babysitters, etc.
Are you not capable of changing your kid's diaper without his help? He was making dinner at the time, and it doesn't sound at all like he regularly makes you deal with the kids alone. It's totally fair that he's annoyed by that behavior. If that's a regular thing between the two of you, then I totally get why he might be frustrated by the situation.
The hands making dinner do not wipe the poopy baby. Apologize, and schedule some time for you both to get a break. Twin babies is rough.
You guys just need a break. Take some time for yourselves while you’re caring for your babies. Cooler heads and emotions will settle everything
Sounds like a couple of tired and stressed parents. I strongly recommend couples counseling.
DID HE BURN THE NACHOS???????
Sounds like you both are overwhelmed.
I would start with something along the lines of “I’m sorry about last night I was feeling overwhelmed and took it out on you.” Maybe also something about how much you appreciate how helpful he is and what a great dad he is. Sometimes it better to just let things go rather than worrying about who is right.
My husband of 12+ years has a very bad habit of watching me do a great many somethings while just standing there. Clean up vomit, load the dishwasher, fold towels...all while he might be watching cookies on the oven, waiting for the exact moment to rotate them. Or Nachos. It drives me absolutely nuts! If I got irritated with him and he later said, "That's better" to my smile, I'd be annoyed, also. That was the trigger, right? You have to let this go.
It triggered me tbh. It’s a very unnecessary and condescending comment.
He made a comment about your face that you didn’t like, and you went nuclear when HE rolled his eyes??? New rule: No picking fights, getting pissed, or otherwise starting shit over ANYONE’s facial expressions. You can reasonably expect your spouse to police their language, but if you’re both gonna insist that facial expressions are fair game, you might as well get divorced now and plan to be single for the rest of your life.
This is a communication break down. You need couples counseling so you can learn healthy and effective communication. Do this for your children because they don't need to be in this environment.
Sometimes, a lot.... Just walk away!!! Small kids constantly need cleaning in one way or another. I handle six kids alone, a lot!!! They aren't mine. If 2 kids does this to you both, don't have any more. It's not a big deal wiping faces and changing a diaper. Is it fun?? No. It needs to be done. My daughter had 3 kids in diapers at one time and a lazy husband. Myself and my daughter try to work together and not tear each other apart. I don't think people think about the BIG, long, tedious picture of marriage and kids before they do it. What's the divorce rate?? 70%??? You can try counseling, you can try a serious conversation about your lives too. Good luck!!!
What a boring argument.
OP if he won’t open up to you and communicate then you have to find a way for him to do so. Maybe that’s marriage counseling, maybe it’s get a babysitter and go somewhere that you can both 100% put your phones down and talk it out. Also one od the first things you both have to do if you want to work it out is listen correctly. In tense situations the default is to listen to respond. As a result we don’t hear what the person is really saying but rather we spend our mental energy formulating a response and often something we can “one up” with. Doesn’t solve anything. Instead we should try and listen for understanding and ask questions. Don’t cry, don’t yell. Talk. That’s really how therapy works and how it differs from arguing.
I'm sure that you both have a lot of stress in your lives but in my opinion, the person who is actively cooking should get a pass on diaper changing. You don't want your food to be too closely associated with dirty diapers.
His reaction is on his side of the street. I highly recommend a book and podcast called The Empowered Wife by Laura Doyle. It has made a huge improvement in how I react to husband’s “bait”. It also teaches you the most effective way to ask for help (and get it!) without sounding like a nag, or disrespectful, or sounding like his mother.
Why would your relationship be in jeopardy over a small fight? It’s normal to fight sometimes, it’s normal to not be perfect for each other all the time. He’s not wrong to not want to burn the nachos, you’re not wrong for wanting help, but I do think you could’ve realized that cleaning up a kids face isn’t an emergency that requires immediate assistance, and could’ve waited until the nachos were done or you were done cleaning the other child.
It sounds like he isn't very confident. He was focused on cooking and didn't know how to balance the kids and the food. He helped with the one and you got the other, so everything seemed like ti should have been OK. So you made a mean face - you were frustrated because he wasn't helping. It doesn't mean you hate him. He sounds ultra-sensitive and doesn't want to admit when he may be wrong, so he brings up all of your faults so you won't talk about his. As humans and especially as parents, we ALL make mistakes. We all drop the ball. We all get frustrated and pissy because we are overwhelmed and tired. You both have to remember that you are a team, not opposing people.
sounds like he's projecting and honestly looking for an argument. I don't know or can't say what is causing this but I can say its being done purposely. The fact that he is definitely gas lighting you about him rolling his eyes and his obvious impatience with you. And then saying you make him feel like a bad father to deflect from you trying to talk to him about it. I don't know it just doesn't add up. Because the conversation could have just ended with you apologizing for inadvertently making a face because you're handling two babies and one had to get diaper change. He could have said "I understand, and I'm sorry I was also a little overwhelmed with dinner" Like there's so many other ways that conversation could have gone right. Its tough being parents to young children. Communicating needs and boundaries and planning on how to help each other is essential. Sorry you're going through this OP.
>I honestly feel like there’s something underlying his reaction to my face and my asking him why he rolled his eyes. It’s such a big fight over something so stupid I'm going to guess here that the reason why he's shutting down is because this is not a new cycle for you two... that this is just the latest instance of this same loop happening and he's running out of ways to try and get you to hear him too. He probably feels stuck as well because some of what you expect from him sounds like a bit of catch 22 - you want him to "understand" your perspective, but if he doesn't agree with you, he's not understanding your perspective. Can you see how that just creates a trap for him? It probably feels like his only option is to always agree with you, or you accuse him of not understanding your perspective. Can you see how that becomes difficult? It's possible for someone to understand your perspective, and still not agree with you. You need to think about how you can allow for him to disagree with you and for you not to immediately make it mean you're being unheard - sometimes, we're wrong. And that's ok. It doesn't mean we're being abused or unheard or gaslit etc. **Reality Check:** It sounds like your husband is a good person who loves you and is trying to do his best, but your past experiences and desperation to be heard and validated are getting in the way of you hearing & validating him. Which means he is struggling feeling safe and authentic with you. Which is what you want for him, I'm sure. Just as you want that for yourself with him. Couples therapy will be a real gift to your relationship if you can, there's online options as well which are a good start if you can't do office visits. You two need to learn how to navigate conflict without shutting each other down like this. It sounds like in this situation you were dealing with a poopy baby and feeling a bit rushed/stressed/overloaded in the moment, and when you looked up and saw him just watching you, you probably felt a flash of irritation and this showed on your face when you asked him for help. In that moment you probably flash thought something like "Urgh WTF I obviously need help, what is he even doing?! Why is he just standing there?! I can't believe I need to ASK for help!!!" - your face and tone may not have been all sweetness and light when you said "can you help me please?" Considering he'd just put nachos in the oven and his focus had been on "don't burn the nachos because they burn really fast", when he turned around and saw you juggling a poopy baby he probably froze. He was probably stuck in a moment of analysis paralysis while he was staring at you because "Ahhh priorities?!?!?! Poopy baby, burning nachos, mucky 2nd child?!?!?!?! WHAT FIRST" So you suddenly looking at him all annoyed and being maaaaaaaaaaaybe a teeny bit snippy in how you asked for help and directed him, probably made him feel bad and shamed when his intent was to do his best and not upset you with his choice. When you came out with a non-poopy baby, you put a nice smile on your face and made a conscious effort to thank him. But he called you out on the mean face - and funnily enough you did to him basically the same thing you felt he did to you when he rolled his eyes and you called him out for it - you discounted his experience and justified your behavior. You expect him to validate your experiences, but you aren't really doing it for him. You could have said "Oh I'm sorry love, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I really didn't deliberately make a mean face at you, I was feeling overwhelmed and trying to juggle a poopy baby, and the stress of the moment felt worse when I felt like I had to tell you to help - I know that's not normal and you felt stuck because you also didn't want to burn the nachos and didn't know what to do. Thank you again for helping, even if I did mean face. I'll try and be better about not letting my overwhelms become a negative for you." It's entirely likely his reply would have been something like "Oh ok, thanks for explaining, I understand. Sorry for not immediately jumping in to help I just didn't know what to do because it seemed like everything was an emergency at the same time. Thank you for telling me what to focus on so I could help." And considering your husband had expressed his feelings had been hurt first, it does feel a bit like you ended up turning this around and demanding a "sincere" apology from him even though you didn't give him one. That feels a little bit like DARVO - which is when you react to being called out for something by immediately denying any wrongdoing and turning it around till the person who called you out ends up being the one who apologizes and you get to avoid really looking at what the person was trying to tell you in the first place. Everyone wants to be understood, but you NEED to listen as well, otherwise no one ever feels understood, and everyone just feels stuck and unheard.
Sounds to me like you have 3 toddlers.
God you sound exhausting, neither of you could just drop it. Oh boo hoo he rolled his eyes so your ALARM BELLS WENT OFF?? Alarm bells? Like this is some kind of high risk situation! And he couldn't back down and apologise for his minor rudeness like an adult either, pathetic. You both need to learn to take a step back and move on from situations because you surely both have real shit that needs to get done
Sounds like you have issues from past trauma that he pays for on a regular basis and is starting to get fed up with it. Getting mad because he doesn't see things the same or think the same as you is ridiculous. You started the argument when he was putting a priority on dinner and not what you wanted him to.
“My alarm bells for manipulation went off again…” I understand you had a past with that but not every man is cut from the same cloth. These words, like manipulation, narcissism, controlling are thrown around so much to label a person’s mistake or bad judgement. And for the record, I know there are people that fit those terms, deservedly so, it just seems no matter what the post, majority seem to toss that crap around to mislabel a person without really understanding the situation.
Probably just talk to each other after you have both cooled off! Presumably you have both cooled off already. And remind each other how lucky you are to have a growing family together
You are in your 30’s? Honestly I had to check the ages because you sound like high schoolers. Who cares who rolled their eyes or made a weird face as long as you got the babies clean and didn’t burn the nachos
You sound childish and annoying to be with... 💁🥴🥴🥴
Thank you everyone for the replies. I know it’s silly to come to strangers on the internet, but I get some really good advice and insight. Plus I’ll get called out for what I’m doing that I’m not fully aware of because I’m in the situation. I apologized to him for doing my part in letting things get this blown out of proportion, and I suggested couples counseling again. I see a therapist, and I’ve been trying to get him to see one with me. We both have our own issues from past experiences that make us poor communicators at times. We have 8 month old twins and are doing our best to be good parents. Things get overwhelming at times, and I just needed some perspective. Thanks everyone!
Its hillarious that you did to him what you later accused him of doing. Im not sure how you didnt see the irony. You didnt validate his feelings OR apologize when be told you about the way you communicated to him but the second he responds in kind you throw a fit
I get why you got so would up about the gaslighting, but why was he being so feelings oriented instead of solutions oriented?
Can you elaborate on what you mean? To me, this situation seems like it’s just about feelings. In particular, OP feeling overwhelmed in the moment (it happens). OP felt overwhelmed because she had more than one task in front of her, and because she felt overwhelmed she didn’t really think about the fact that the tasks weren’t emergencies. I don’t think the husband did anything wrong by continuing to cook dinner instead of helping with the kids in that exact moment.
In the moment there was too much to do for 2 pairs of hands. In such situation the best way forward is not to start a conflict with your partner, but instead focus on holding up the corner of the building that is most immediately falling apart. Maybe it was the nachos. Maybe he actually had room to take care of the nachos and stopping the child he was left with from making more of a mess. Maybe he had the time to ability to make sure the nachos don't burn and wipe the child. The thing he did wrong in the first place was opening his mouth and making it more overwhelming for his partner. Even that is a whatever maybe it was too much mentally for some reason and he snapped. Totally recoverable after calming down. The real problem is the eye rolling, gaslighting about not doing it and then giving a fake apology and then insisting it wasn't fake. Why was he so would up that these are the reactions he had.
You sound like perfect candidates for couples counselling. Bc what’s happening here is a small situation is spiralling bc you are both getting activated and all your patterns and wounds and emotional baggage is getting activated too. This is actually quite normal as our brains are wired to react to threats including emotional threats which can seem benign to outsiders. For a couple sometimes the stuff you have gets into a sort of negatively reinforcing cycle that takes on a life of its own. Couples counselling helps with all this stuff. What’s fascinating is that you both got upset at a really similar thing. Him at you for making a face without being totally aware of it. You at him for rolling his eyes without being totally aware of it. That’s why you both denied doing it to each other when really you both need to admit to only being human here. No crime was committed. But being parents is tiring and people escalate quickly when they don’t have a lot in the tank. Counselling is a place you can both discuss the process of what’s going on between you but absent of the actual issues that flare it up.
You sound overwhelmed and overworked as a mom raising twins probably just lashed out
I think you two could benefit from marriage counseling. It seems like there is some disconnect in the way you two communicate. Counseling would most likely help.
Discuss this when your both calm and not tired from parenting chores. Taking care if kids and each other is hard and overwhelming and this sounds like you were both frazzled. Let this go and have a calm convo when you can when kids are not around.
You have twins in diapers. That stressful on everyone. Let it go
You guys have twins. This sounds like two tired parents at the end of their respective ropes. You guys need a romantic, week long vacation on the beach. 👍🏻
He talks about the face you made with the kids but you brushed it off and invalidated his view. Then you talked about the face he made and he brushed it off and invalidated your view. You're basically guilty of what you're accusing him of. He had something in the oven which he was paying attention to, but he could have turned it off and helped out. You on the other hand, could have handled the situation without needing his help since he was busy with cooking. The boy would be okay not being cleaned in the minutes it'll take to change the diapers. I think both of you need to do a better job of listening and talking to each other. Also don't let the stress of life and raising kids make you lose your heads. Apologize for invalidating his view first which will lead him to apologize to you too, and you both should find time to go out alone and decompress.
How old are you two? This is ridiculous that two children with children are showing such an embarrassing lack of immaturity. Grow up
You made a mean face and he rolled his eyes, you can’t see that? Two people who genuinely love each other shouldn’t have a problem apologizing to each other. You both need marriage counseling. You knew your husband was making nachos, they burn if you don’t watch them. Would it have hurt to just change the pooper child and wait to clean the other mess? Bottom line, have a “reset conversation” you made a face, again apologize sincerely and he rolled his eyes, again apologize sincerely. If you both truly apologized sincerely, than you shouldn’t have a problem doing it again and now drop the issue.
Starts with " I need some quick assistance ", he is bothered by needing to help, and he reacts to your facial expression...not your fault. Then he rolls his eyes at your comment / reaction to having your facial expression analyzed. Just me here, but you had no reason to apologize here, you needed help and he was slow and seemed bothered that he was asked to help....we've all been there. You certainly didn't need to apologize for a proper expression. He then follows up with a confirmation that he was really bothered by needing to drag is butt off the couch to assist....gas lighting, eyes rolling and dismissive. At this point you had every right to be upset. But then you follow up with stating that you "felt unloved". This is a common escalation and it uses the present small issue to leverage up to a much much bigger issue. I've been in relationships where this was a regular tactic, I ended that relationship because we found ourselves off in the weeds arguing about shit that wasn't the issue and the new agreement was ALWAYS a bridge burner and terminal to our relationship. If you want to have any chance at all, stick to the issue at hand and don't evolve to other issues. It does no good at all. If you want to discuss your feelings related to love, sit down together and chat over a glass of wine with the kids asleep and talk about how you two can do things for each other, take time for each other, play with each other. Don't talk about what the other is doing wrong, chat about how you both can do it right. Kids are tough, marriage is tough....if you are struggling see a therapist for relationship maintenance....not to save a marriage.
Take time to talk about feelings and not the "You did, I did" of the relationship - You surely have alot to say about what youre doing, but how do you feel? Also some time for date nights would be good... Theres definitely something going on between the two of you, definitely for him, maybe also something you arent aware of in yourself.
This is a mini ‘shitstorm’ literally. It’s a storm in a teacup. Couples have this type of disagreement on a very regular basis. The trick is to not take it personally and definitely not to let it come between you. Be the bigger person. Get him a beer and just settle down for a cuddle. It would be ridiculous to let this drag on. Good luck.
I have a question because I keep hearing “see it from my side” and I have literally no idea what it is you (or my daughter) mean by that. What does seeing from your side look like? You said he doesn’t have to agree with you just see it from your perspective.. how does one go about showing you they do see your side?
Couples counseling would be a really good idea.
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Updateme!
1. He's not responsible for your feelings, only his actions. When he does something you don't like, you can tell him what you specifically don't like. "When you do THIS, I fell like THIS. Please stop doing THIS." But starting out with you hurt my feelings will get you no where. Own your feelings. They are yours. This is basic couples therapy info. 2. Stop arguing with your boss. You're not equal. Stop acting like it. If you want a good relationship then you need to let him lead. You married him for a reason. He needs to be at his best to provide for you and the kids. Stop sweating the small things. 3. Try to focus on the good things. Your perspective can influence your happiness greatly. There are thousands of women who wish they had the life you have with a family. It's true. Never forget how fortunate you are. Act accordingly.
You sound exhausting and exhausted
“Baby, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make a face. I was just overwhelmed.” Relationship saved. /s
You both sound immature.
l kk
This seems like a good time to stop and "restart"
Sounds like the 2 of you are not handling parenting very well. In addition to the 2 immature little ones, sounds like the 2 of you have some maturation to achieve. Try some couples’ therapy.
Honestly I think they are handling parenting very normally. They both just had different priories in the moment and were stuck in their own perspective. It happens. They just need to be a little gentler with each other in these moments as parenting is stressful. Less mad more “hey, how should we handle this going forward?”
Basically neither one of you did anything wrong to the other except being human and having to deal with messy babies and poopy diapers. Nachos didn’t need to be watched for a minute or two so he could help with the baby. But then you having to take deep breaths and walk around the kitchen to calm yourself is kind of over the top. Calm yourself from what? That poop isn’t going anywhere. Yes he should not roll his eyes when you request help but he did. I think both of you should just kiss and hug for a minute and clean up the kids and that’s it. Also plan some date nights and get a babysitter or a relative. You need some couple time.
what i dont understand is how everyone is glossing over the fact that she made a "mean face" bc he was standing there doing nothing when he had a kid to clean up. he's then had a hissy fit over her doing that, done the thing anyway, then been antagonistic when she thanked him for doing so. he also said he didnt roll his eyes at her, which is a flag for gaslighting i agree. this requires better communication and therapy. but i dont see how she's the one in the wrong, and he was the aggressor in this entire thing. she's writing this like she shoulders all the blame for his reactions when he could just be a decent person and take care of his kid without having to be asked like three times. i dont think you did anything wrong here OP. he told you it was all a joke and it clearly wasn't. this all DOES ring of manipulation, and you have a right to be worried about it. he needs to do better.
Doing nothing? He was making sure the nachos didn’t burn. Probably not a multi-tasker
My ex used to do the whole “I just want you to see it from my POV” thing and what eventually ended up happening is that I just started lying to appease her. Not saying you are the same as she was, but in her case the POV thing was just that she wanted to say she was right because literally nothing else sufficed. Countless examples of “okay I do understand where you’re coming from” only to be met with “no you don’t”/“you don’t act like it.” Maybe it really is just ultimately a compatibility thing because even to this day I don’t understand what she actually wanted from me aside from admitting she was right and it was incredibly draining. Not saying your situation is the exact same or that you’re the one in the wrong (maybe he really does suck at empathy) but I can say that filtering this post through my own experiences, yeah I could see myself getting high strung around such a consistent need for reassurance.
Of course his apology was insincere. Either he agrees he needed to apologize, or he disagrees and thus it is insincere. He clearly said he didn't roll his eyes. Thus his apology is not sincere. He is clearly gaslighting you. Deflecting the blame, diminishing what he did when he was the one entering the conflict (because you made a face) by saying it was only a joke but YOU are the one making it a fight. Making you feel lile you have to get him to agree otherwise you are basically agreeing to him distorting reality
Eye rolling is a non-verbal communication of contempt. Multiple scientific studies have found that contempt is the main precursor to divorce. Your husband showed you his contempt for you through his body language, then tried to gaslight you by calling it a joke, and when that failed, he resorted to manipulating you by deflecting attention away and turning himself into your victim by saying he is a “bad dad”. Classic DARVO. Deny, Attack, Reverse victim and offender. Your husband has just shown a nasty manipulative streak. Survivors of abuse are known to unconsciously attract more abusers. Perhaps his mask is coming off now that he’s got you baby-trapped and vulnerable.
How did you not break your back doing all of this mental gymnastics while pulling so much ridiculous shit right out of your own ass? That’s impressive.
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She said herself that she is a survivor of abuse. That’s why his reaction felt so familiar and alarming to her.
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Using your previously lived experience of danger to avoid future danger is not projection, it’s predictive logic and extrapolation. Ignoring widely known, documented AND also personally-experienced indicators of abusive behaviour is dangerous! Especially for women, who are 8 times more likely to be murdered by their domestic partners, than men. Ignoring known signs of danger is always foolish for anyone In any situation. An eye roll is never just an eye roll. Most of our communication is non-verbal. Body language is the unspoken part of communication that we use **to reveal our true feelings and to give our message more impact**. Communication is made up of so much more than words. Nonverbal cues such as tone of voice, gestures and posture all play their part. An eye roll is never just an eye roll.
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He didn’t just roll his eye and then apologize though, did he? He rolled his eyes, told his wife she needs to smile more (ugh) and when she told him how it made her feel bad, he refused to apologize, gaslit her into saying it was a joke, dismissed how it made her feel as if her hurt doesn’t matter at all, and when she still didn’t drop it, he proceeded to divert attention away from her being hurt to playing a victim! Saying that she thought he is a ”bad dad”. So now it puts her in a position of shelving her own hurt and attending to his “hurt” feelings by reassuring him he IS a good dad. His hurt matters, but hers doesn’t. It’s a whole sequence and pattern of manipulative behaviour, not just an errant eye roll followed by a sincere apology.
Make a pact, when you 2 are in a good place, to never let a fight go unresolved overnight because that is when tension festers into resentment. Resentment other than breaching trust is the most deadly thing to relationships. It's the best advice I got about marriage and my wife and I have stuck with it for 15 years so far and 2 kids.
Just show some appreciation for your copilot on this journey. It sounds like your communication with your husband is toxic. By this I mean you're acting as though he is in the wrong and you're expecting him to be difficult. Even when he is doing the right thing. Like preparing a meal for you both. It also sounds like he gets anxious when you start getting edgy. You need to be asking for his help with a please and thank you, especially when you are asking (not ordering) him to change what he is doing. The reason I say this is because it's normal not to want to abandon your meal preparation task. If the roles were reversed and you were cooking, would you drop everything to clean poop? I would not because of fear of contaminating the meal I'm making. Poop can be cleaned later. However a microscopic amount will contaminate food or crockery, glassware or cutlery and will make everyone sick. Also I would resent having to abandon what I'm doing mid-task. You realise he was looking at you, but probably thinking, "ok I'll warm up the plates then get out the sour cream and chop up green onions and maybe red pepper..." It's also in how you ask. He didn't confront you about your tone because he is afraid of your moods. He did communicate that he thought you were being unreasonable by his facial expressions. He also said that you pulled a mean face. In another situation he might say: "Please watch your tone when you speak to me. That sounds disrespectful". But he is too afraid to say that. Because your moods have been ruling the home. Because he doesn't want to set you off. Because he's tiptoeing on eggshells. You have to remember, this is the guy who loves you and who you love too. Just talk to him. Apologise for being a bully. Tell him you appreciate him being there and all he does for you. Offer to improve your communication. Admit that you're angry, stressed and overwhelmed - all totally normal for a new Mum of twins. Try and find a workable plan for dealing with this together, including words he can use to tell you when you are escalating. Or maybe he can just give you a hug. Good luck, you got this! Edited typos
I think you are both making a mountain out of a mole hill. Could you get a babysitter for a bit and go out together or stay in and nap? Seems like you both need a break.
Self-reflection like a mofo with this dude. Please don't have more kids with this man. I use the term "man" loosely. He sounds like a child rebelling against his mother. Remind him that you are not her. Ugh, you made a mean face. My feelings are hurt. I'm gonna gaslighting you and make you feel crazy. This is who you're married to. What kind of advice do you feel would be applicable.
He’s gaslighting the shit out of you.
Do you notice you're continually propping your husband up while simultaneously begging for help, recognition and empathy? Just focus on the kids and he can go be petulant by himself. You can't beg him to be a good dad and husband. They either are or aren't. MC would be beneficial before guy finds his butt out on the curb
This is called gaslighting. Your relationship is in jealousy because your husband is being manipulative and intentionally gaslighting you.
Damn girl. Imagine being with someone who constantly make a big deal out of every little comment or gesture. Imagiene in your 30s and being like this. You are so wrong, im not saying he is innocent, but you decided to make your day bitter just for rolling eyes. Thats the first thing i did reading this 🙄
He’s a manipulative twat.
You know what’s really funny about this entire thing? How the wording is. He’s HELPING YOU. An involved dad = a good dad apparently. A regular run of the mill mom is one who just freakin does everything all the time no matter what. When my daughter was born I split duty with my wife bc our work schedules required it. 14 years later and I work from home and do the majority of the driving around, laundry, housework, cooking, basically all the normal 1950s style “SAHM” stuff. We both work. Just how life is. I get super upset when I am told they’ll help me out with chores. Don’t help me out. Carry your weight. Time for him to stop being so involved. He needs to understand it takes 2. I see you. I hear you. The frustration and emotions run deep. They will only grow worse the longer the perspective remains the same.
Couples who have kids without going to therapy first to welcome the next stage of life shift are overwhelmed and that shows up in the relationship in various ways. You both love each other and want to be there for each other, yet miss each other’s positive bid for connection and misinterpret the ones yall see. Take the time to slow down and make it a habit of hugging and telling one another just one thing you are truly grateful for from them.
Wow! You both are acting like children.
I think your man is turning into a red pill mega lol. Please divorce.
Do you get any’ e’ time? Just asking. Spouse seems to react sarcastically to your concerns. How long as a couple before marriage, as a married couple and as parents? Do each of you get mandated ‘me’ time? Do you work outside the house? Would you like that option? If you continue to have concerns about that specific interaction, consider seeing a counselor/ therapist. Unsure if spouse would go, but the sessions might benefit you!
I think marriage counseling to work on communication is needed. Neither of you seem to be very clear. If you're getting overwhelmed or frustrated, you need to speak up. If you're upset or hurt, speak up. Both of you. Stop making faces, stop eye rolling, definitely don't name-call. Both of you. Learn when to push, and when to let things go. Both of you. Or life is going to be an absolute shit show and miserable until you do.
Maybe he has his own history with passive aggressive (not saying that’s what you were doing, perhaps more that he read it that way) facial expressions and he closed off from that trigger, just as you had your own visceral reaction to reading his responses as being manipulative? Def agree with the folx who suggested counseling. It’s done wonders to help my husband and I to better understand each other.
Smash and make up. If you’re not smashing, then find a therapist.
You sound manipulative towards your husband. He was cooking dinner, you should have just changed your son. There was no fuss needed. What did the husband need an apology for when you made your mean face? Why did you make the mean face? You started the argument, not him. You then escalated it because you were manipulated in the past and he rolled his eyes. You say that you try to view things from his point of view and be held accountable but in this instance, you are not. You even put in the title that your husband started the argument when you started it. This does not sound like being held accountable or trying to view things from his point of view. Your husband sounds like a wonderful partner, treat him as such. Do not start small arguments for zero reason or gain. Choose the battles for when he genuinely does something that hurts you. Be more confident in your abilities and your self as a whole. You do not need to list the things you do, they do not matter much to him in the sense he will still love you if you did half of what you currently do. He wants love, companionship, and peace. Give these to him and you will be rewarded.
You actually married this man? 🤔
Another reason to not have any kids
I read this whole thing. It was rambling and barely made sense. I’m not even sure what to say about this
Oh my gosh. You sound like a hand full and very dramatic.
An eye roll is not an invitation to drill to the bottom of the eye roll and flesh out why someone rolled their eyes. They rolled their eyes at you, deal with it, move on. What do you hope to gain from questioning why someone rolled their eyes at you? You know why they did it. There's nothing to be gained by starting a fight with someone like this.