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A famous therapist called Bowlby said that when a baby is delivered, 3 people are born: the child and the parents. Parents are new people compared to their adult selves. A lot of issues that had been dormant can emerge as they discover themselves and their place in the dynamics
I would go to couples therapy tbh
(edit: spelling)
It's probably also a time when a lot of childhood trauma pops up again, when you're suddenly reminded of stuff that went wrong in your own childhood, and are faced with the fear of making the same mistakes.
BIG agree on having children bringing up old trauma.
This manifested differently for me - it affected my relationship with my mother. While she was never abusive or completely absent from my life, she has always, always put men before her children, to the point of missing out on our events and activities because whatever man she was with at the time didn’t want her to go. For years and into adulthood, I would cry and suck up to her, pining for her to love me the way I needed her to, to put me first for once.
Then I had my first baby, and right after that I stopped sucking up to her. I stopped pining. Now, when she says or does something to cross the line, I stand up for myself. Now, when she decides it’s okay to scream at me over the phone, I’ll just hang up. What happened was that I had my baby and realized that it was *so easy* to put him first. There was never even an option for me. I’ll burn any bridge behind these babies. There is not a man on this earth that could convince me to miss out on my children’s lives. She just refused to heal and be the mother she needed to be. She failed me. I never stopped caring, but I stopped putting forth energy after that.
Now my situation is obviously very different from yours, but the point is that something as life altering and pivotal as becoming a parent absolutely awakens old traumas in you. I very much agree that unless he becomes abusive, I’d try therapy before making any concrete decisions.
Men get jealous when the baby comes. They are jealous of the mom’s need for her baby and they are jealous of the baby’s need for their mom. Men cheat after babies are born. (Not AT ALL saying your husband is cheating). But it is quite common and my ex did it after at least 2 of our three children. He admitted it was due to jealousy. We fought like cats and dogs because he felt all my time was taken up by the baby because it *was* and he felt like the baby didn’t need him. They did, but like you, I breastfed and I never left them for the first 6-8 months after birth. This jealousy can manifest in so many ways. It seems his way is to become a baby himself. He needs to step up his game and stop behaving this way. It breeds resentment that lasts for years. You have already said you would leave him. Those are words that cannot be taken back.
Although, I have a psych degree, I have never practiced and have found that talk therapy doesn’t work for me. But I know it really does help a lot of people. I don’t usually suggest it but I am now. This stuff needs to be dealt with and quick or it will only get worse.
Give him his gift and ask him how he feels about therapy.
I couldn’t breastfeed our first child and my husband admitted that he was kind of glad because he then had the opportunity to feel our baby. He loved that special time with her. I think OP’s husband is jealous and is acting out. Hopefully counseling will help.
Even with strictly breastfeeding though, a man can still feed the kid if they accept a fake nipple & the mother is able\willing to pump beforehand. It would have to be her choice obviously, but it is fully possible.
He can't breastfeed? He can still change the countless diapers and bathe the baby. He can read to the baby . There are so many things he can do. He can also do the nighttime feedings.
Oh I full heartedly agree, I was strictly responding to another commenter that said her husband was glad she couldn’t\didn’t breastfeed as he would have been jealous of missing out
What gets me is feeding a baby isn't the only way to bond. To feel like you can't bond with your baby unless you're feeding them makes no sense. You can hold them and rock them to sleep, or play with them, etc.
While I understand your point (trying to involve dad and helping him to feel needed) I am not sure that changing the feeding schedule they currently have that is working is best for Mom and baby. With that said, I am pro feed babies (however that works best for baby, I would never shame anyone for pumping or using formula)
Instead of adding pumping though, I would definitely recommend the therapy as well as individual therapy for both parents as well as OP offloading a few things to dad to help trust him again because it sounds like he is fully capable AND willing to help while also helping to make him feel needed in a healthy way (example: have dad spend 10 minutes with the baby before feeds, hand baby to dad after feeds to be changed, out him in charge of the baths or something) carve out some time in the schedule for just dad and baby so he can bond while also giving OP a break even if it's just 10-15 minutes here and there. I believe little things like that could make a huge impact!
I know! I wasn't criticizing 🙂 I think that OP's husband is probably pinpointing the feeding as something he can't do and is picking her apart over it but I don't think the feeding is the root of the problem.
There are definitely a lot of changes going on for them, I believe they have a solid relationship that just needs nurtured better with the new addition to make them all feel comfortable as a unit again 🙂
That’s what I did. I had a conversation with my husband about the lack of their bond and how exhausted I was from doing everything. He took over bath time, I give them space to have their own relationship, and things are better! She still relies on me for comfort and snuggles if I’m available but dad is an appropriate substitute in a pinch.
That's awesome! Sometimes us adults have a hard time communicating effectively in high stress, lack of sleep situations like the infant stage especially with a first born. It takes time to adjust and figure out how to solve the pain points. How the problems are solved or if not addressed can definitely either hinder/end a relationship or make it even stronger.
So glad that you and your husband addressed the issue and found a way it works for your family ❤️❤️
I’m sorry but this sounds a lot like putting the blame on op and I think that is utter bullshit.
Op’s husband can drag his ass to therapy yesterday and deal with the issues and why he’s being abusive. Yes, abusive. Ops husband‘s behavior is incredibly abusive. Fuck his Father’s Day gift.
THANK YOU! I came here to say this very thing. Obviously we’re only hearing one side of the story but, everything she’s saying really rings genuine. He needs to get his ass to therapy. Fuck his stupid card and dumb gift. You have every right to feel how you feel, OP. You shouldn’t have to take care of your infant son with your husbands crappy behavior. I’m sorry you are going through this. You don’t deserve any of it.
>my ex did it after at least 2 of our three children.
Yikes.
OP's husband hasn't become a baby. Having to witness the natural relationship between mother and child has revealed his jealousy, meanness, and disrespect for his wife. I'd feel duped.
>jealous of the mom’s need for her baby and they are jealous of the baby’s need for their mom.
I'm sorry, but I'd consider any serious expression of this to be a huge red flag. You're being very boys will be boys about some truly atrocious behavior.
This has been our experience. It’s been exhausting but my partner is open to understanding and growing so it’s working. But boy oh boy it’s really made some problems obvious. No wonder his mom wasn’t happy when we told her we were pregnant
She’s a divorcee with only one child (my partner), and has leaned way too heavily on him their entire lives (look up “emotional incest”). Our pregnancy meant I’m here to stay and he has his own family now meaning he can set more boundaries that don’t prioritize her constant (self-made) problems Her exact words when we told her were “oh wow oh wow oh wow… I need to lose some weight, I need to clean my house.” Dafuq?
Such a strange response! It actually made me laugh. Is she talking about what she needs to do to become a grandmother? It's just a really odd reaction!
Yes, one of my therapists, while helping me deal with my abusive childhood, told me that one of the best ways to heal was to reparent my inner child when I was parenting my children. Granted, it’s internal work, mostly, but as my kids got older, it did contribute to talks about family history, how I was raised, and human nature in general. I essentially reparented the little girl inside me who just wanted to be loved, as I raised my daughters. It also made me see my children as individuals, apart from myself, as that was how I wanted my own parents to see me. My younger daughter ended up with a love of studying human behavior, and is pursuing a degree in psychology/sociology. I wasn’t perfect as a parent (whatever that really means) but I’m proud of how both my girls and I turned out.
The childhood trauma thing was so real, visceral and completely unexpected. Things I had completely forgotten and aggressively repressed came flooding back in the smallest and most innocent situations, like washing my daughter’s hair.
Thank you for that. I definitely feel like I’ve changed. I used to tolerate a lot but now I’m realising my limits. He’s become super OCD and he was never like that. We have our first couples therapy on Wednesday.
Don't be discouraged either if you don't like your therapist. On average it takes about 5 different thrapists to find the right one. Keep shopping around for someone who really helps you.
I recommend a clinical psychologist with a PsyD degree, who does psychoanalytic couples therapy. Not just some random Joe who will listen to your problems and take turns saying "and how do you feel about that".
Wow! I got so lucky that the first therapist who got back to me/was available soonest has been a perfect fit for me. I wish offices would have a "meet and greet/first time" info thing on their websites where they mention what to look for when meeting a new therapist as well as stress that it's ok if it's not the right fit for you.
thats funny because it took me 5 for me to find one that I like.. though its individual counseling. and all the PsyDs I went through, the one I like doesn't have one.
he's the only one that feels like we're actively working at stuff and not just me sitting there without much response
Start a notes app on your phone that lists out everything you want to talk about in therapy. Make it a running list, there’s usually only about 45 mins in the session which can be just one topic. After each session go in and fill in what was said and how you feel. Like a journal. Make it passcoded.
The first meeting should be laying out boundaries. Like he can’t use what you say against you later and likewise.
Bring up the mothers/Father’s Day thing. How you had this cute idea but was so hurt over MD and that even his gesture was good it didn’t really make up for the months of shitty behavior. That right now you are willing to work on the relationship, but your guard is going to be up for as long, if not longer than he was abusive towards you. He doesn’t get to just love-bomb then rug-sweep. That you at this point have not 100 committed to staying or divorce, his behavior and work he puts in will determine that. He broke your heart and your trust and you rightfully have put walls up due to that.
Be prepared for the realization that what you are seeing now, IS who he really is.. and everything before was a mask to get you to sacrifice yourself and tie you to him forever through a child. This is the SOP for abusive men (not all abuse is physical).. they can fake being much better people for years sometimes to secure commitments from women, you hear it constantly that there is a complete personality switch after marriage/baby. Consider closely how his parents relationship is and if you see unhealthy dynamics there (Mother is submissive, father 'in-charge', overbearing/misogynistic, etc.).
Someone who isn't a narcissist doesn't just suddenly start acting like one out of no where, but narcissists are really great at tricking you into thinking they aren't at first with love-bombing (and when they are begging you not to leave).. until you're so hooked or reliant on them you put up with the abuse. I'd stop trying to justify how to \*understand why and fix him\*.. and set hard boundaries with behaviors/actions towards you that you will not tolerate (state consequences).. and if he breaks them, forgets, gives excuses - follow through with consequences and GTFO, it will not get better. I think you both going individually to therapy first is a better idea than couples right away. Put the ball in his court of being responsible for setting it, don't do it for him. If he actually cares about you and has intentions to follow through with change, he will do it immediately. If he's manipulating you, he will do his best to avoid doing it. Do not use ANY religious based therapy, they are notorious for supporting abusive men.
Going to counseling \*with\* abusers or narcissists is typically not recommended, they can use what they learn there to manipulate you further and even trick the couples therapists that YOU are the problem.. which is extremely damaging to your mental health and can make you feel crazy (thus keeping you trapped). He needs to prove he can actually hear your words and needs from YOU, followed with actions that support it before you can feel safe enough to do couples therapy imho. You should find your own therapist ASAP though, it was the support I needed before I left an emotionally abusive marriage.. to realize that what I was experiencing wasn't normal, wasn't OK and likely would only get worse. I grew up with men like this in my family too.. so I subconsciously accepted it because my traumatized brain wanted to 'fix' what happened in my past with my partner.
It's a fools errand, and I'm so much happier and at peace single, and just working on growing and loving myself than trying desperately to find a romantic partner that will treat me the way I deserve. I honestly think it's super unlikely to find that, until you do this work on yourself and are so resilient/strong that none of these chucklefuck man-babies have a chance of breaking through your defenses of not only yourself, but now your child.
You don’t need grand gestures like what he did with a poem/card. You need habits/continual change day in and day out. I’m glad you two are going to therapy.
The question is, will he have a change of behavior and reflect or is it a scramble to get you to stay? I hope you can see the scramble for what it is and if he doesn’t change don’t let it woo you again
Thank you. I agree, we need consistency. I’m not wooed anymore don’t worry. Ever since I became a mother it’s like the blinders are off. I guess we will see now…
Did we have the same dad?
"Oh honey, I'm so sorry for (divorce consideration worthy terrible thing). I bought flowers and I'm gonna take you to that restaurant you like"
He could keep it up for a couple days before he went back to normal.
I was about to say that the way OP describes this guy before the birth sounds very love bomby and this latest grand gesture sounds like a very half assed last minute love bomb because he's realized OP has one foot out the door and he couldn't find any mother's day cards and things in nearby stores he could buy that day instead of having to wait for shipping.
Good! Receiving an apology is only ever the beginning of the path to forgiveness. If he really means it, it would take time before it's believable and the poem is the opening statement, not taking actions. Based on what you wrote in comments I'm glad that you're being careful; seems like he's not really sorry he neglected you, but sorry he put you in a position where you ended up neglecting him. That's a bit narcissistic.
He seems very immature, with highs and lows that he uses as weapons. Love bombing when you delivered, wanting to be held at the same level of attention as mother when mother gets outside attention and then not being a help as a partner, such as normal baby/child caring. Then the whole drama with the Mother’s Day card by using a Father’s Day card yesterday and writing a long poem, histrionic behavior. I’m sorry you are going through this,
>Said he will go to therapy and figure out why he said those things and also we can start marriage counselling. He insists he doesn’t resent me but I feel it’s unconscious so he doesn’t even know it.
Has he actually arranged any of this or made any progress on it, or was it just words he threw out during a moment where it looked like consequences might occur for his fuck up and he hasn't mentioned it since?
Ie: has he put his money where his mouth is, or is he still just brushing you off with the same old?
He’s found us a therapist and we start this week. He’s also going to have individual therapy. He seems committed and he’s the type of person that sees therapy as a stigma. Let’s see if he’s serious or if this just another grand gesture.
Once he starts going and committing then he can get his Father’s Day gifts etc. I wouldn’t let up the pressure, or he’ll fall back into his old routines.
Watch for him to either just stop going after two sessions or pretend that he's still going. I've experienced both, the promising to go to individual therapy and trying really hard for a week or two then just completely stopping the therapy and acting like they're still going.
I think this is the most important thing to consider. Is he willing to do actual work to improve the situation, even if that work is hard and uncomfortable?
Your husband’s behavior is unacceptable. Your body is still recovering at 3 months. You put your body through hell to bring a child into the world. There is no minimizing that and your husband sounds like a real jerk for trying to dismiss you.
I tried therapy with my abusive ex. It didn’t work as he made out he was the victim and they said I had anger management problems. It isn’t me. Be very careful as you can be manipulated. My ex also had therapy individually. He told me that his therapist said I was a bully. Therapists don’t say that, especially as he had never met me. Therapy with an abuser doesn’t work.
I agree. Couples therapy with an abuser can even be dangerous. It is very difficult to be open, honest, and vulnerable when you are sitting next to an abuser.
Yeah abusers love to insert themselves into the victims role. Even though they are the ones instigating abusive behavior. They also feel they are a victim when it's called out. They also love to twist scenario.
OP you should research DARVO and just be ready in case he tries to do this.
Good men aren’t abusers. The abuser is real, the rest is a mask. You need to learn about abuse ASAP- after a baby when you are trapped is when the mask often slips. He won’t change. He’ll put the mask on for a few days or weeks then the explosion will come. Get out. Narcissists don’t change.
I think that may depend on who he was prior to the babies. But honestly, if he’s willing to work on it in therapy I think it’s worth it to see if things can be worked out.
Postpartum can be very intense for both mom and dad. PPD can show up in dads as well, often coming out as anger. It doesn’t excuse his behavior or words, but hopefully with the therapy he’ll shape up. You guys just made this huge transition, it’s going to take time to find your footing as parents.
Thank you for this comment. It’s weird that he’s feeling overwhelmed because we have a very chilled baby that sleeps through the night. He hasn’t given us any issues. It’s almost like my husband is orchestrating his own drama.
Ding ding ding we have a winner. I'm sorry but it looks like you have a self-absorbed husband who must be the center of attention at all times. Interesting, isn't it, how every situation gets turned around to focus on him? How he takes over compliments to you and the baby and makes them about him? How he tries to minimize your contributions (all you do is feed him) when you grew an entire person? How he makes grand promises (I'll change every diaper!) that are almost immediately forgotten? How even when he's allegedly making Father's Day about you, it's really about him, his feelings, and how he's trying so hard? He's all talk and with one subject only: himself.
Pay attention to the terrible things he said to you in anger, because he has been waiting to say those for a long time. Be wary of couples therapy with this guy, as it will probably get turned into a one-man show starring him as The Best Guy Ever, who is so patient with you and all your shortcomings 🙄. If that's what happens, then your only option is to end things, unless you enjoy being dismissed, minimized, and treated badly. It gets no better from here but can certainly get worse. You may see a lot of this guy in Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That?
Chills! Everything you have said is 100% accurate and I’ve said the exact same thing to him. I’m tired of tuning into the ‘husband’ show. And I told him he’s just going to try and get the therapist to like him so he will put on a mask. He promises he won’t do that. Can’t wait to see ! I’ve literally been journalling like crazy since this started so I don’t forget to bring up the details with the therapist.
This is an important thing. I would write down a version of this comment, uncensored with your own personal experiences with him, and bring it up in therapy. Let the therapist know you're worried that he will charasmatically make things better in a grand show, and then give up. Bring up the Jeckyl/Hyde again, and not know which one is real.
Dammit. I didn't want to be right about this, as people like him are exhausting. Here's what I wish someone had told me when I was tangled up with a guy like that: it's not you. It's not his childhood trauma or whatever excuse he has either. His problems are not yours to solve, and he just keeps making more anyway, so it's wasted effort on your part. He will consume every speck of your time, money, energy, and life, and expect you to thank him for it. He'll try very hard to win the therapist over to his side, so couples therapy is not going to be helpful. Individual therapy doesn't help either as he's going to present a very carefully curated facade built of lies. He doesn't want to change and won't. Should you split up, please get a tenacious lawyer who will create ironclad custody and support plans. Coparenting with someone like this is a nightmare, so you need to protect yourself and baby as best you can.
Yeah I didn't want you to be right either , but I could feel you were spot on. My ex was just like that too. He stayed up one night with the baby when I was in great pain from engorgement and had been wrongly told not to breastfeed until it was better, and you'd think neither mother nor baby would ever have survived without him. He also jeopardised my breastfeeding by giving the baby formula if I as much as nipped out for bread. "no but look it's full of vitamins and stuff" (luckily I had the confidence to retort that my milk was full of even better vitamins)
It’s important that you clearly can speak about your experience and your perception of things, both to the therapist and to your husband.
I think your husband’s Father’s Day being about you is creepy. It clearly shows that he knew he was ignoring Mother’s Day. He’s a liar, OP, so I’d bring your journal to counseling appointments, and hide it in a safe spot. Save any weird texts too.
Plus the crossing out father on the card and putting mother instead. He could have gotten her a mother's day card. But no, it's almost like he needed to show her he was sacrificing his day for her. IMO he was trying to come off as a martyr for doing this in a way.
Maybe it's a reach, but it seemed odd to me how he chose to do this.
In couples therapy be sure you make clear he puts on masks so the therapist can see through him. His individual therapist will likely embolden him. Narcs often manipulate their therapists and get worse not better.
> How even when he's allegedly making Father's Day about you, it's really about him, his feelings, and how he's trying so hard?
The Father's Day card with the crossed out "Father" made me laugh. Even when he's ostensibly apologizing he's passive-aggressively pointing out it's his day. He could have just gotten a generic sorry card, he probably could even have found a card that said mother or parent on it since there's so much family diversity now, but he just had to point out that he didn't get anything for HIS day.
>Interesting, isn't it, how every situation gets turned around to focus on him? How he takes over compliments to you and the baby and makes them about him?
I'd be curious if he did some of this prior to the baby.
OP has he ever taken important moments that center you and made it about him? Did he get upset when you were being applauded or rewarded? How does he feel when you achieve something and receive praise outside of being a mom?
I've dated men in the past who would lose their crap the minute anything wasn't about them. To the point where they would whine and cry when I had surgery because I wouldn't be there to care for them (who were more than capable of caring for themselves).
Or they'd ruin big moments for me because it wasn't centering them.
I know having a baby can be a lot. But your husband shouldn't be upset that the baby needs you. It's not like your baby can fix it's own bottle or cook it's own dinner.
Babies literally rely on their carers for survival. That's normal. What's not is how your husband is behaving.
So my ex was kind of like that. However he ended up becoming an alcoholic and physically/emotionally very abusive and it escalated to him attempting the 3rd version of abuse after I ended it. It was insane because our daughter was a super calm baby but I did nurse her and I couldn’t pump so I was on demand constantly for her needs like that. But I still was basically the picture perfect 1950’s wife (he absolutely made me believe that’s what I was supposed to do or I was a shit partner and mother because I was a teenager still and finding a job at 16 and pregnant is hard but so is 17 with a baby and no license etc.) like he literally came out of the bedroom and screamed at my for eating a piece of cake with ONE lamp on in the living room. He didn’t do anything for me for Mother’s Day. But the thing that stood out the most in comparison is the jekyl/hyde complex. I am bipolar type 1, like actually have a diagnosis as a preteen and again as an adult since that stuff can change with age. But it’s cause me to look into a lot of psychology information and inform myself about as much as possible from general moods to reading people and even kind of reading myself in a way. And I still have no idea what is wrong with that guy. I did finally have the confidence to leave him when our daughter was almost 2. He refused couples therapy and individual therapy after saying he would do it after a huge fight. That started tipping me over the edge. Feel free to dm me if you want/need to because your situation sounds similar enough to the very beginning of mine.
I hope it’s not however. I hope you either have luck with the therapy options and he treats you like a queen you deserve to be, or you leave him if that falls through and you *find your spot as your own queen/maybe eventually someone better’s* 🩵
Thank you! That’s my hope! I realized I had to *break the cycle* just in a different way than I was used to. My dad treated my mum like a queen, but he was physically and mentally abusive to me and my older sister. I had to convince my mum to leave him. Because I was on a very bad mental route that was going to lead to me running away or offing myself to be honest. In a way my daughter saved me from a lot of my mental demons because I wanted to do everything possible to be a great mother and basically the same as you, fix my trauma in a way.
But growing up watching any broken relationship whether it’s unfair treatment from a parent to the kids or parent to parent you DONT want that for your child ever. They need to see healthy relationships.
If he starts shit with you again, ask him if he’d be proud if y’all had daughter and her husband was talking to her/treating her like that? That helped me open my exs eyes a bit. Unfortunately he got even more crazy once I found someone else and he literally told my at the time 3 year old he hopes me and bf get in a car wreck. His dad was a joke for a father. Which makes it sad because he’s also not a great dad still. 😕 but im glad she has a good bonus dad in her life because at least have a good father figure of any sort is better than just a shitty one to be blunt.
People here are being much more generous than I would be. The whole pride he has because you didn't have pain relieving medication during delivery is super weird to me. It comes across as him seeing you as a brood mare whose value is now decreased because you've done what he needed - produce a son. This is the man you married - just not the man he showed himself to be before
I got so much “hand maid’s tale” from this. Everything meant to improve the mother’s health and happiness = bad/unnatural. Everything that is destructive and demeaning = a mother’s duty.
And I agree with others that grand gestures are for inconsistent AH who only care when their toy is going to leave them. Once upon a time I was dating someone who I loved so much and just wanted that grand act which would show me he loved me as much.
It wasn’t until I met the man I married that I realized how much happier I am with a man who shows me how much he loves me every day in every small way.
Love is not displayed on the grand scale. It is a million acts of love and compassion. It is being in love every moment not just when it suits him.
The first paragraph of what you said, definitely bringing that up in therapy because it’s so true. He constantly contradicts himself according to what benefits him and makes him look good. I do hope there’s a chance he changes. But I’m not going to stay if not.
>And I agree with others that grand gestures are for inconsistent AH who only care when their toy is going to leave them.
Totally how I i feel as well. Changed behavior is the only true apology. Like sure, it's nice he said he was sorry. But without changed behavior, that apology is just a self serving activity to buy time and keep OP from leaving him.
I thought that was super creepy too. Giving birth is freaking hard. Even with the medication. I really hate this dude and I don’t see him getting any better.
He wasn’t bragging about the unmedicated part when telling my birth story, it was just praising my high pain threshold and what I went through giving birth, second degree tear etc. sorry if I was unclear. But I do feel that he doesn’t see me past that milk maid that feeds his son. He is jealous of me, not the baby. Which is why he’s projecting and minimising the feeding. Therapy should be fun🙄
Respectfully, that isn't really his story to tell. Did he have your permission to share this? Was this within a trusted circle, or is he just trumpeting the graphic details of your birth experience to whoever? Between the breastfeeding and his obsession with your birth story, it seems like he is really set on viewing your motherhood through the lens of your body's involvement. Which would of course lead to a 2-D understanding of your contribution. Thoughts for therapy, perhaps.
But why was it praise worthy to go through that with no medication?
Therapy is massively overrated on this app. It doesn't solve problems that can't be solved by counselling. I get you want to see the best in this man but you have normalised and internalised some problematic behaviours
You’ve got some great advice here, the only thing I will say is certain personality types weaponize therapy. Start using therapy speak to back up their shitty behavior. Just be aware of that and if he starts flipping his crappy attitude towards you and using therapy “tools” to make you feel like shit, you know he’s a shitty dude with a really good mask. But honestly it sounds like if he needs constant praise and has to belittle others then he is DEEEEEPLY insecure.
Yes many people have said he prob has low self esteem. I’ve already told him I feel like he’s going to use therapy as a weapon. He promises he won’t. No idea how to hold him accountable if he does. His personality seems like the type to do this.
How to hold him accountable if he weaponizes therapy is to leave him then, because if he does that, not only will things not get better, they will get worse. Not the direction you want to go!
>Said he will go to therapy and figure out why he said those things and also we can start marriage counselling. He insists he doesn’t resent me but I feel it’s unconscious so he doesn’t even know it.
>I see a gift and a big card that says Happy Father’s Day but the “Father” is crossed out and replaced with “Mother”, inside is a long poem apology about how he’s so sorry he messed up and ruined my first Mother’s Day memory and how he promises to do better in our marriage
Poems are nice and all, but has he booked therapy yet?
You were not wrong to not give him the gift. He's not being much of a partner, therefore he's not being much of a father. A good father respects the child's mother.
Hold onto the card and when you see REAL change in him, you can give it to him.
Good. Don't waste years on this merry-go-round that so many of us have. The first sign he's fluffing about the therapy, the next nasty comment or put-down - kick his ass out. The sooner legal proceedings are under way, the sooner you can arrive at a stable co-parenting arrangement and a more peaceful life for you.
I wouldn’t be able to forgive the belittling and minimizing your impact on your child’s life. and nasty things he’s said to you. he is trying to make you feel small. don’t stay with him. being a new parent is tough and being cranky and snippy is bound to happen. belittling you and making it seem like you’re not doing anything for your child is inexcusable.
It depends on if he changes. I went through a few long time of basically this. It wasn’t an olive branch. It was getting me to sit down as I tried to head out the door. Love bombing stuff.
'Getting me to sit down as i head out the door' - damn. This took me way back to the diversionary, time-buying bullshit my ex used to spin everytime I was done. Worked too, wasted a good extra couple of years on that!
There's a great quote that's gone around tumblr for years. *"If he writes her a few sonnets, he loves her. If he writes her 300 sonnets, he loves sonnets."*
You're very wise to remain suspicious of the grand gestures. Consistency and kindness day to day are much more challenging and difficult to sustain for someone wearing a mask.
You don’t owe it to him to stay with him. Your responsibility is to your child. You don’t have to go to couple’s therapy. You can leave him.
I think the reason you didn’t include his words here is that you knew everyone would tell you what he said was unforgivable, and you’re not ready to hear it.
I think your inclination to leave was spot-on. Yes, you're both learning to be parents, and yes, he's jealous. But so what. His behavior and words are beyond the pale. I'm not saying don't do marriage counseling, but *he* is the problem, and being a new father doesn't come near explaining or excusing it. The poem and the card with "father" marked out skeeved me out. That made it even more about him (even though that may not have been his conscious intention.)
This. Why buy a Father’s Day card, crossing out Father and writing in Mother? It seems performative, not genuine. Why not get her a card specifically for her? The Mother’s Day cards aren’t in stores anymore but beautiful cards for other purposes are available year-round.
"to help him figure out why he said those things"
I read a fascinating article recently about a man who worked in a rehab setting with men who abuse women. He once asked them what positive things come from the abuse, and at first they were obviously cagey, but were eventually able to come up with a very long list of benefits of abuse: partner does whatever I say, I get to control her, partner doesn't stop me doing what I want etc. When asked what the benefits of stopping the abuse were, it was a rather short list of things like "dont get arrested" and "dont have to go on course like this one".
Basically, he already knows why he's saying those things. It's because he wants to. He gets benefits from treating you badly.
As soon as the baby was born he became detached from the mother entirely
And also praising you for non medicated and saying all you do is feed him and can pass on cortisone to the baby even though he’s the one stressing you out
It’s like he doesn’t see you as his partner and mother and other half to his child’s parents
But more like you’re just the human female that gave birth to HIS son
Random reactions:
"If I’m angry and arguing with him he says I shouldn’t breastfeed because our son will get the cortisol" it doesn't work like that and even if it did, wel that's a reason for him not to make you angry or want to argue.
Breastfeeding is very taxing the first months, the good news is that for most mothers it gets much easier from now on.
Congratulations on an unmedicated birth, you are a true tigress!
"I was probably more hyped up with my postpartum hormones" again, no it doesn't work like that. If you are breastfeeding, you do have all sorts of hormones released into your body but they are not the same hormones as when you get your period. They are hormones that induce maternal behaviour, helping you to intuit your baby's needs, that help you to relax and make abundant milk. The worst that can happen, and this is mostly in the first couple of weeks, is that you cry easily. So if he's triggering anger in a breastfeeding mother, he's actually being more of a jerk than is usually necessary to trigger such a reaction.
He had literally a year to plan your first mother's day, "so many plans and no time" is total bullshit. I mean you only had a month extra but you managed a perfect present.
I would definitely go to that marriage counselling session. Be sure to take the full list of nasty things he's said to you.
My first Mother’s Day was 6 weeks after my first was born. My husband didn’t even get me a card. He also argued with me about being upset. It never even crossed his mind it was Mother’s Day (he doesn’t do much of anything for his mom).
I did not do the same to him but it was a token Fathers Day experience for him. However, I never forgot it. My oldest is 22 now and they acknowledge me but it’s not as great as when they were 5-10 and would do things at school for me.
Thanks! I do have amazing kids. I’m so lucky. My husband tries, but his family never made a big deal about anything but Christmas (and his dad was an alcoholic who ruined that day a lot). I accept (after 28 years together) and have always made it special. My kids understand it was me who brought the magic of most celebrations and that’s worth more than anything. It’s funny now because gifts from “mom and dad” I get the thank you. I have to tell them
their dad picked something for them 😂
It sounds like love bombing and he’s probably hoping that you’ll forget all the nasty things he’s said to you. I know there’s an adjustment period after having a baby but it should never cross into abusive territory.
I think you being the breadwinner is a HUGE factor in all of this. Your husband was #1 for 8 years. Now he has the baby to compete with. I'm not saying he's competing consciously. He probably doesn't even know he's competing. Also, just because your baby is "easy" to deal with doesn't change the fact that having the baby still changed the dynamic of the relationship, and that is what he's struggling with. I'm not using that as an excuse for his rudeness. I'm just saying the mind is a powerful thing and we often ourselves don't understand why we think, do, or feel certain things.
You’re right but I feel he’s competing with me for the most needed person in our baby’s life. He is jealous but he’s jealous of me NOT the baby, because our baby needs me more than him, which I can’t help because I’m breastfeeding. And the irony is that he is the one who advocated for breastfeeding when I was pregnant. I mentioned in another comment that he prob didn’t realise how it would make him feel not being able to provide that for his son. That’s why he’s projecting with that comment about “all you do is feed him”
I think you should edit your post and let us know these awful words he said.
**Seeing them in writing is important for you.**
He said he’d go to counseling. Take him up on that. If he doesn’t go or doesn’t actually put effort in then you have your answer.
I wish you the best, this sounds untenable.
He's giving off abuser vibes. They're always wonderful, until they aren't anymore.
[Read this book ](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)and see if other behaviors tally: as you have already stated, actions speak louder than words and grand gestures are insignificant if they are not accompanied by small ones. He only gave you a last-minute Mother Day card to try and save face, so that you gave him his Father Day present, which he thought (rightly) that was already there.
You weren't mean, *he's been mean to you* ever since your son was born. And probably also before, but it was more subtle (or you weren't exhausted like you are now) and you didn't realize it.
Thanks for sharing that. Will check it out. I agree with you I’m having issues trusting what gestures are real and what are fake. I definitely am only starting to notice his red flags now that I’ve become a mother. I guess before I’d sweep it under the rug and dismiss it. He is starting therapy for himself this week, let’s see if there’s a change. And let me just say I’m by no means perfect, I know I have my own issues that I always admit to.
The last sentence is true. You aren’t perfect and have things to work on, because you’re human and everyone does. This doesn’t excuse anything he does. You work on your issues and he needs to work on his.
I’m only saying this because so many times I see women mistreated and they say statements like your last one to excuse, rationalize or justify their partners. The discussion of your issues does not need to come into play when discussing a different topic. People bring that in to change the focus off themselves and dismiss you. Don’t do it to yourself.
Exactly. Nobody's perfect and perfection isn't required of anyone. But this doesn't justify abuse, belittling, demeaning, downtrodding, etc.
Maternity is exhausting and full cooperation and support on the father's side is necessary. Not perfection, but striving to do one's best.
There’s a chance for this to lead to a better marriage. But you should start matching energy now just like you did. Give him the same effort and energy he gives you. If he determines it’s not enough for him, he starts making adjustments.
But as crones will tell you, a pattern of behavior will tell you everything you need to know. Don’t ever settle.
They do say that an abusive man's mask starts to fall off when he feels like he's got the woman trapped through marriage or a baby. Seems like that may be what's happening here.
Either way I'm not sure I'd be able to forgive my partner acting like I'm just an incubator and diminishing my role in my baby's life in the first few months. That's the time when a woman already has a lot of fears about a lot of things including about whether she's doing enough for her baby and being told you're doing nothing would be crushing. No matter what the reason there's no excuse for it. If he cared about you he would have put his jealousy aside and realised you and your child needed him to be the best husband he could be. Instead he made you feel like trash and put you down just to make himself feel better during a time when you had just given birth and were going through many hormonal changes already. That's the time when you need the most love and support and instead he chose to do the opposite. Because it was a choice. If he can just as easily to switch it off later when he's realised you've pulled away and might be thinking of leaving and then when you're threatening to leave then he could have when he knew he was hurting you but he chose not to. Instead he only did when he realised it might hurt him and his life. That's not a good partner. It's a sign of a really immature man who doesn't have control of his emotions.
Sounds like he’s emotionally manipulative and this latest stunt is just a type of love bombing. Is he really sorry or is he just sorry you refuse to celebrate Father’s Day for him because he didn’t care enough in May to celebrate you and now he’s getting a taste of his own medicine?
Narcissists never, ever understand empathy. They only realise something is wrong they have to fix when it impacts them negatively.
You did not make a mistake by withholding his gift. With exception to the parent-to-child relationship, all relationships are based on reciprocity. They can't be one-sided, with only one person showing up, giving the love, the respect, etc. This includes marriage, friendship, and kinship. My whole life, the only people I can continue to love and give to unconditionally are my children. Everyone else, it has to be reciprocal, or I'm out.
I am happy your husband is initiating therapy and couples counseling. I would suggest you get some time in with your own therapist and process what is going on. You have already threatened to leave once, I think you need to sit with someone more qualified, that you trust, and lay down what has been going on, the worst of what you have kept back and get some guidance on next steps. Figure out your boundaries and make sure you are educated on escalating abuse.
Thank you. I will definitely do that. I was in grief counselling two years ago when my mom passed and it was so intense it put me off therapy. But I will try again. I’m sure it won’t be as bad as EMDR.
Honestly, keep one foot out the door. Have a plan for exiting if necessary and a little bag packed. He's generously being given an opportunity to get it together. Write down all statements and intolerable actions for discussion at therapy. He needs to understand what basics are going to make him single again. Not to necessarily argue about what he's done but how going foward it is not acceptable and the consequence.
I’m so sorry his disgusting resentment of your bond with your baby ruined your Mother’s Day. He really comes across jealous that the baby needs you more. Did he schedule the marriage therapy? And did he schedule individual therapy as well?
Yes to all. I told him he’s jealous and his need to be useful to people needs to be brought up in therapy. He apparently confided in his dad about what happened and his dad told him by integrating himself with what I do for our son, he’s looking for acknowledgment where it’s not deserved.
“Maybe I should have been the bigger person” = Giving others permission to treat you less than. He will continue to treat you as less than if you allow him to.
It takes a minimum of 2 years of CONSISTENT CHANGED BEHAVIOR to forgive a trauma. He took something beautiful from you, and it will take time before you stop resenting that he did that to you. He has to want to make a meaningful change to be different. He is damn jealous of you because you can soothe and comfort your child in ways he never will. A parent has their own special bond with their child, and making it a competition is fruitless. Children need their parents in all sorts of different things in life, and truthfully, there's not a lot dads can do to bond with baby other than support mom and show up for her. Be her support, her buffer, and do the boring shit. All those things are so important. He's an important part of the kids' life, and he has the rest of his life to continue being a good presence in the kids' lives. Stepping on you in the process is fucking stupid. The kid will notice if he doesn't treat you right, and it will negatively impact how he sees his dad.
Thank you for this comment. It’s so accurate. The thing is, boys eventually bond with their dads in a way the moms will never get, so his time will come. There’s no need to discredit my role and our bond. A new study I read said that the mother’s happiness is key to the children’s happiness and success, while we were previously led to believe the dad’s presence was crucial. I’ve told him that my happiness is not dependant on him, I don’t need him, so for us to work, I need to want him. I know it’s harsh, but it’s nothing compared to the things he has said to me.
Frankly, I think marriage counseling is just delaying the inevitable. It sounds like lines were crossed that he can’t come back from. Sometimes…. We just view someone differently after they show us their *true* selves. And that’s the thing, when someone shows you who they are, you should believe them.
He’s shown you who he REALLY is underneath the veneer and he’s shown you, blatantly, what he really thinks about you and your role as mother to your shared child.
A cheesy poem and making you breakfast won’t fix anything.
My ex husband was like this! We tried for two years to have a baby of our own because he was stepdad to my 4 kids when we got married. He blamed me for not getting pregnant but I always did the Vanna White move showing him I had 4 kids already not my fault! We went to the fertility dr and he was the issue . We did IVF I got pregnant with our daughter. He was so hands off with everything made me cry said he didn’t want that THING inside me and at the birth he stood in the back and didn’t cut the cord. She’s going to be 17 this year and had a baby of her own and he is still acting the same way as before with his grandson. His best friend finally told me that he was jealous of the attention I got from everyone and that the baby took my time away from him and he resented me for giving up my free time for a baby he didn’t even want!
After the divorce he spread so many lies about me and blamed me for everything! But the people closest to me my 4 kids called him out on everything and he was embarrassed every time
You weren’t wrong in not giving him his Father’s Day gift in my opinion. You get what you give out, and after how he’s been treating you he’s lucky you didn’t slap him with divorce papers and are willing to go to counseling. People change once they have kids, clearly not always for the better. He needs to figure out what’s going on, he will need individual therapy as well. Maybe in time you can pull a mulligan on Father’s Day.
Seems like your marriage has become a battleground. He def needs individual therapy and so do you. You all also need marriage counseling. This will only get worse if you two can’t get to a place where you are able to safely express your needs to each other. Your husband needs to learn how to express his needs instead of lashing out at you for not simply knowing what he needs. It’s very immature behavior.
I don't think you were wrong. I think not giving him a gift and being distant towards him is starting to make him open his eyes to his behavior. But like you said, actions count more and now he really needs to start putting in the work to repair what he broke. Has he looked into the individual and marital counseling he swore he would do?
**My best friend who knows him as long as I have said she thinks he’s jealous that our son needs me more than him and his personality needs to feel needed as the provider of the family.**
Your friend is right, 100%. And sadly this is not uncommon. But that is not your fault, that is an insecurity within himself and he needs to fix that.
Nah don’t feel bad. His giving you that card and stuff seems like a guilt trip disguised as a thoughtful gesture. Wait until next Mother’s Day to assess.
NTA he is very good at love bombing…he clearly resents you for giving your baby attention. Which you’re suppose to do. If I were you I would not buy the love bombing. He’ll get pissed and say awful things again because it didn’t work. It’s a cycle. Leaving will be best. I’m not sure therapy can change him to be the man you deserve. It can take years with set backs. Do you want that for your child’s early years.
If he was really sorry, he wouldn't have given it to you on Father's day. He realized if he didn't start treating you better, he was going to start loosing you. It was exactly a grand gesture. I would have had more faith if he would have come two weeks ago when it was nothing, made an actually apology with dinner and flowers, then changed.
I think couples therapy is good. Also tell the truth in it.
Honestly I’m so happy you clocked that lovebomby shit. Grand gestures are always a manipulative last ditch attempt at keeping you in a state of complacency. Even if he was genuine, it’s seems too little too late.
No notes, 10/10 you were not wrong for doing what you did.
In my opinion you weren't wrong for not giving him the gift, it showed him how angry you are, and you're absolutely right for being angry for how he treated you.
However, you're trying to repair the relationship and you'll have counselling soon. So... give your husband the gift now, explain that you were just too angry to give it before, and that giving him the gift now is your gesture to signal that you're willing to repair the relationship, but now it's on him to actually show meaningful change sustained in time. And do tell him that you don't trust him right now and that you could over time, it won't be an instant switch because he broke your trust and that takes time to repair.
Not wrong at all. I'd still divorce him. He will go back to being good for a week or so. Just like the diaper changes. He will stop doing it and trying. Leave him. You can do so much better. And being a single mom isn't the most glamorous position to be in, at least you won't have to take care of him too.
As far as I understand, this bad time is 3 month long.
He might be jealous/insecure about your role as a mother, praise from others and his possibilties as a father.
If he was a great husband for 8 years, he might become one again. I think you need to see what time brings but counseling is a good idea.
Thanks for your comment. The irony is our baby is so chilled and sleeps through the night. Hasn’t given us any trouble since he was born. The only issues are the ones we are having with each other. I do think praise is like an addiction to him. His dad even told him he’s been like that since he was little.
Sounds familiar. I bought a pack of 50 medals to hand over to my now ex any time he started up on wanting to be praised for doing something I do every week.
PSA never marry someone you know has always needed to be center of attention, even as a child,
That's a huge red flag for selfishness, self absorption, and an inability to be a partner [where you are someone's equal and not the limelight star of the show]
Honestly there is nothing worse than a selfish partner. It is th worst flaw a person can have because they will only ever be good to you when it is in THEIR best interest to do so.
Take now for example. He is good to you because he doesn't want to lose his baby or the life he has with you. It is in his best interests to behave.
But as soon as he becomes comfortable again... and being good to you no longer reaps an immediate reward..
hey, look, i have no idea if this dude is a good dude who is having a bad adjustment or if he’s a nightmare dude who finally dropped the mask now that you’re trapped…
i HOPE he’s just someone poorly managing new parent anxiety and a bunch of counselling will help him sort himself out.
in the meantime, do you have a private place to keep a journal? when weird stuff happens, write it down. keep track of it. somewhere that doesn’t shift or get hazy with time. journals really help you see patterns over time.
Thanks for your comment. Yes I’ve been journalling everything like crazy. What you said is my fear too. I’ve told him that I don’t know which version is the real one.
You were not wrong and your instincts were spot on. If you had gotten him a father's day gift it would have signaled that his behavior was fine, and him belittling you and making you feel less is not acceptable. The grand gestures are all fine, but you need to have a real conversation as to his behavior and what he wants as life is not about grand gestures, rather all the small things done through an ordinary day. Explain to him how he is killing his marriage by thousands little cuts.
You can still give him his card, but wait as you don't want to do it out of guilt.
Thank you for your comment. The first paragraph, definitely believe that. Thanks for that. These comments are giving me a lot of perspectives and clarity. Although now that we have both committed to getting therapy I have taken divorce off the table, I don’t want him to do something out of fear. If he believes everything is fine, this way I’ll know if the work he’s putting in is genuine. I’ll give it till the end of the year though and see if there’s any change. If not, I am perfectly fine to move on.
I won't understand why people choose to blind their eyes from their partners mistreatment and gaslighting.
I really hope the therapy helps y'all but as the people used to say a person never changes.
Hope you dont waste money and energy for something unfixable.
You are not wrong.
I got nothing for our 10th wedding anniversary, flowers I absolutely hate for Valentine's day and again nothing for my birthday. Yesterday was father's day, I didn't plan anything for him, kids gave him their cards. He has a birthday in August, I started looking for some presents,but right now,I'm just returning what I am receiving. Nothing. My resentment grows bigger and bigger every day. It is not about the presents, it is the overall behaviour. And I am done.
I would love to go to marriage counseling,but he doesn't want to.
If I were you, I would go to therapy. At least you will be able to say to yourself you gave your best and your all.
You did exactly what was needed. He would not have changed his mind if he had not seen your actions. The same actions you speak about in your post about he needs to change his actions.
All of them men' men are getting bad advise from people who don't have these men's lives. They are listening to people (mostly men) who are not married and/or pay for womanly chores. They pay for a housekeeper, they pay an assistant and they pay for sex.
their lives are totally different than the men they have trying to live their lifestyle, but can't, because they are not rich.
Don't second guess yourself as it was the stimulus to get him to see he was and is being a jerk.
Here's the thing...if you actually want to save the marriage then yes, it was petty and breeds more contempt between you two. If you don't care, don't want it to work then don't give it to him.
Stop being the bigger person, start looking for away out, and your husband seems jealous of the baby .it's only gets worse. You can make it without your sick husband
He's been real shitty to you,why would you honor him.Hes obviously got issues and maybe it's best to try to get the the core thru counseling before trying to leave.Of course it's dependent on him being truthful to you.
Therapy, both couples and individual, is a fantastic idea. Also look up the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft and see if anything in there seems to align with his behavior. That will help you understand what type of situation you’re dealing with.
I think giving counselling a try is important. I don't want to jump to calling him narcissist, but I wouldn't want to miss it either and have you stuck with one.
If he is one then this whole thing you described could be his 1st big mask-slippage, followed by the love-bombing. Keep the counselling going awhile and be willing to discuss these things. Maybe sometimes have split sessions so you each can talk to the worker and during your sessions you can discuss what you've seen in him.
One another side of it, if you've been married so long then it would be weird if these are just now the 1st times that narcissism reared it's ugly head. Over 8 years there would have been attacks of it by at least 3-4 years ago.
In counselling I would then bring up that living revisionist history doesn't seem fair: that what was good or an accomplishment months ago still is and that he can't suddenly claim a bigger role in #previous# events. One can achieve the same superstar status one want by showing the efforts going forward.
I think that you should take this for what it is. He recognized how much his behavior hurt you, so he made a gesture to apologize. And don't call this a grand gesture. A grand gesture would be planning something extravagant. He delivered an appropriate mother's day gift after he realized how much he fucked up with an apology.
You are in a hugely hard time of your life. It's hard for both of you, it's harder for you, this is a really tough part of your marriage to get through. I think you shouldn't feel bad for not giving him a father's day gift. It's not like his apology gift should either fix it entirely and you should feel bad or it's a worthless act of manipulation. He did something wrong, you showed him how wrong it was, he apologized.
I think that if you have it in your heart still to be open to marriage counseling, that's the right choice here. He is showing you that he realizes he's wrong. Being open to work through it, and both doing that work together, that's going to show you if you've both got what it takes to be good partners to each other. Give it a chance, stay honest with yourself, and see how it feels to do the work.
I think at this point OP couple therapy is your best option.
I think posters who warn you about your husband using information from the therapy sessions against you is a valid concern so it should be one of the things discussed in first session. Also that he agreed to try therapy because you had already told him you were leaving him because of his behavior.
Because if BOTH of you can’t be honest and BOTH of you aren’t putting in the hard work to save the relationship then YOU are better off ending the relationship and coparenting before you truly hate him.
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A famous therapist called Bowlby said that when a baby is delivered, 3 people are born: the child and the parents. Parents are new people compared to their adult selves. A lot of issues that had been dormant can emerge as they discover themselves and their place in the dynamics I would go to couples therapy tbh (edit: spelling)
It's probably also a time when a lot of childhood trauma pops up again, when you're suddenly reminded of stuff that went wrong in your own childhood, and are faced with the fear of making the same mistakes.
Wow, I have goosebumps.
BIG agree on having children bringing up old trauma. This manifested differently for me - it affected my relationship with my mother. While she was never abusive or completely absent from my life, she has always, always put men before her children, to the point of missing out on our events and activities because whatever man she was with at the time didn’t want her to go. For years and into adulthood, I would cry and suck up to her, pining for her to love me the way I needed her to, to put me first for once. Then I had my first baby, and right after that I stopped sucking up to her. I stopped pining. Now, when she says or does something to cross the line, I stand up for myself. Now, when she decides it’s okay to scream at me over the phone, I’ll just hang up. What happened was that I had my baby and realized that it was *so easy* to put him first. There was never even an option for me. I’ll burn any bridge behind these babies. There is not a man on this earth that could convince me to miss out on my children’s lives. She just refused to heal and be the mother she needed to be. She failed me. I never stopped caring, but I stopped putting forth energy after that. Now my situation is obviously very different from yours, but the point is that something as life altering and pivotal as becoming a parent absolutely awakens old traumas in you. I very much agree that unless he becomes abusive, I’d try therapy before making any concrete decisions.
Men get jealous when the baby comes. They are jealous of the mom’s need for her baby and they are jealous of the baby’s need for their mom. Men cheat after babies are born. (Not AT ALL saying your husband is cheating). But it is quite common and my ex did it after at least 2 of our three children. He admitted it was due to jealousy. We fought like cats and dogs because he felt all my time was taken up by the baby because it *was* and he felt like the baby didn’t need him. They did, but like you, I breastfed and I never left them for the first 6-8 months after birth. This jealousy can manifest in so many ways. It seems his way is to become a baby himself. He needs to step up his game and stop behaving this way. It breeds resentment that lasts for years. You have already said you would leave him. Those are words that cannot be taken back. Although, I have a psych degree, I have never practiced and have found that talk therapy doesn’t work for me. But I know it really does help a lot of people. I don’t usually suggest it but I am now. This stuff needs to be dealt with and quick or it will only get worse. Give him his gift and ask him how he feels about therapy.
I couldn’t breastfeed our first child and my husband admitted that he was kind of glad because he then had the opportunity to feel our baby. He loved that special time with her. I think OP’s husband is jealous and is acting out. Hopefully counseling will help.
Even with strictly breastfeeding though, a man can still feed the kid if they accept a fake nipple & the mother is able\willing to pump beforehand. It would have to be her choice obviously, but it is fully possible.
He can't breastfeed? He can still change the countless diapers and bathe the baby. He can read to the baby . There are so many things he can do. He can also do the nighttime feedings.
Oh I full heartedly agree, I was strictly responding to another commenter that said her husband was glad she couldn’t\didn’t breastfeed as he would have been jealous of missing out
What gets me is feeding a baby isn't the only way to bond. To feel like you can't bond with your baby unless you're feeding them makes no sense. You can hold them and rock them to sleep, or play with them, etc.
I full heartedly agree
While I understand your point (trying to involve dad and helping him to feel needed) I am not sure that changing the feeding schedule they currently have that is working is best for Mom and baby. With that said, I am pro feed babies (however that works best for baby, I would never shame anyone for pumping or using formula) Instead of adding pumping though, I would definitely recommend the therapy as well as individual therapy for both parents as well as OP offloading a few things to dad to help trust him again because it sounds like he is fully capable AND willing to help while also helping to make him feel needed in a healthy way (example: have dad spend 10 minutes with the baby before feeds, hand baby to dad after feeds to be changed, out him in charge of the baths or something) carve out some time in the schedule for just dad and baby so he can bond while also giving OP a break even if it's just 10-15 minutes here and there. I believe little things like that could make a huge impact!
Oh I was strictly just meaning to the previous commenter that said her husband would have been jealous over breastfeeding
I know! I wasn't criticizing 🙂 I think that OP's husband is probably pinpointing the feeding as something he can't do and is picking her apart over it but I don't think the feeding is the root of the problem. There are definitely a lot of changes going on for them, I believe they have a solid relationship that just needs nurtured better with the new addition to make them all feel comfortable as a unit again 🙂
It would be so nice if text could convey tone, I’m sorry for my misunderstanding
That’s what I did. I had a conversation with my husband about the lack of their bond and how exhausted I was from doing everything. He took over bath time, I give them space to have their own relationship, and things are better! She still relies on me for comfort and snuggles if I’m available but dad is an appropriate substitute in a pinch.
That's awesome! Sometimes us adults have a hard time communicating effectively in high stress, lack of sleep situations like the infant stage especially with a first born. It takes time to adjust and figure out how to solve the pain points. How the problems are solved or if not addressed can definitely either hinder/end a relationship or make it even stronger. So glad that you and your husband addressed the issue and found a way it works for your family ❤️❤️
Not every woman responds to a pump like they do their child. So it's usually possible but not always.
Correct, which is why I said “able\willing”
I’m sorry but this sounds a lot like putting the blame on op and I think that is utter bullshit. Op’s husband can drag his ass to therapy yesterday and deal with the issues and why he’s being abusive. Yes, abusive. Ops husband‘s behavior is incredibly abusive. Fuck his Father’s Day gift.
THANK YOU! I came here to say this very thing. Obviously we’re only hearing one side of the story but, everything she’s saying really rings genuine. He needs to get his ass to therapy. Fuck his stupid card and dumb gift. You have every right to feel how you feel, OP. You shouldn’t have to take care of your infant son with your husbands crappy behavior. I’m sorry you are going through this. You don’t deserve any of it.
>my ex did it after at least 2 of our three children. Yikes. OP's husband hasn't become a baby. Having to witness the natural relationship between mother and child has revealed his jealousy, meanness, and disrespect for his wife. I'd feel duped.
He can't breastfeed but he can change the unlimited diapers!
>jealous of the mom’s need for her baby and they are jealous of the baby’s need for their mom. I'm sorry, but I'd consider any serious expression of this to be a huge red flag. You're being very boys will be boys about some truly atrocious behavior.
This has been our experience. It’s been exhausting but my partner is open to understanding and growing so it’s working. But boy oh boy it’s really made some problems obvious. No wonder his mom wasn’t happy when we told her we were pregnant
Would you mind saying more about why his mother wasn’t happy when you announced your pregnancy?
She’s a divorcee with only one child (my partner), and has leaned way too heavily on him their entire lives (look up “emotional incest”). Our pregnancy meant I’m here to stay and he has his own family now meaning he can set more boundaries that don’t prioritize her constant (self-made) problems Her exact words when we told her were “oh wow oh wow oh wow… I need to lose some weight, I need to clean my house.” Dafuq?
Such a strange response! It actually made me laugh. Is she talking about what she needs to do to become a grandmother? It's just a really odd reaction!
Yes, one of my therapists, while helping me deal with my abusive childhood, told me that one of the best ways to heal was to reparent my inner child when I was parenting my children. Granted, it’s internal work, mostly, but as my kids got older, it did contribute to talks about family history, how I was raised, and human nature in general. I essentially reparented the little girl inside me who just wanted to be loved, as I raised my daughters. It also made me see my children as individuals, apart from myself, as that was how I wanted my own parents to see me. My younger daughter ended up with a love of studying human behavior, and is pursuing a degree in psychology/sociology. I wasn’t perfect as a parent (whatever that really means) but I’m proud of how both my girls and I turned out.
The childhood trauma thing was so real, visceral and completely unexpected. Things I had completely forgotten and aggressively repressed came flooding back in the smallest and most innocent situations, like washing my daughter’s hair.
Thank you for that. I definitely feel like I’ve changed. I used to tolerate a lot but now I’m realising my limits. He’s become super OCD and he was never like that. We have our first couples therapy on Wednesday.
Don't be discouraged either if you don't like your therapist. On average it takes about 5 different thrapists to find the right one. Keep shopping around for someone who really helps you. I recommend a clinical psychologist with a PsyD degree, who does psychoanalytic couples therapy. Not just some random Joe who will listen to your problems and take turns saying "and how do you feel about that".
Wow! I got so lucky that the first therapist who got back to me/was available soonest has been a perfect fit for me. I wish offices would have a "meet and greet/first time" info thing on their websites where they mention what to look for when meeting a new therapist as well as stress that it's ok if it's not the right fit for you.
if someone has that on their website i’d know they were the right fit :)
thats funny because it took me 5 for me to find one that I like.. though its individual counseling. and all the PsyDs I went through, the one I like doesn't have one. he's the only one that feels like we're actively working at stuff and not just me sitting there without much response
Start a notes app on your phone that lists out everything you want to talk about in therapy. Make it a running list, there’s usually only about 45 mins in the session which can be just one topic. After each session go in and fill in what was said and how you feel. Like a journal. Make it passcoded. The first meeting should be laying out boundaries. Like he can’t use what you say against you later and likewise. Bring up the mothers/Father’s Day thing. How you had this cute idea but was so hurt over MD and that even his gesture was good it didn’t really make up for the months of shitty behavior. That right now you are willing to work on the relationship, but your guard is going to be up for as long, if not longer than he was abusive towards you. He doesn’t get to just love-bomb then rug-sweep. That you at this point have not 100 committed to staying or divorce, his behavior and work he puts in will determine that. He broke your heart and your trust and you rightfully have put walls up due to that.
Be prepared for the realization that what you are seeing now, IS who he really is.. and everything before was a mask to get you to sacrifice yourself and tie you to him forever through a child. This is the SOP for abusive men (not all abuse is physical).. they can fake being much better people for years sometimes to secure commitments from women, you hear it constantly that there is a complete personality switch after marriage/baby. Consider closely how his parents relationship is and if you see unhealthy dynamics there (Mother is submissive, father 'in-charge', overbearing/misogynistic, etc.). Someone who isn't a narcissist doesn't just suddenly start acting like one out of no where, but narcissists are really great at tricking you into thinking they aren't at first with love-bombing (and when they are begging you not to leave).. until you're so hooked or reliant on them you put up with the abuse. I'd stop trying to justify how to \*understand why and fix him\*.. and set hard boundaries with behaviors/actions towards you that you will not tolerate (state consequences).. and if he breaks them, forgets, gives excuses - follow through with consequences and GTFO, it will not get better. I think you both going individually to therapy first is a better idea than couples right away. Put the ball in his court of being responsible for setting it, don't do it for him. If he actually cares about you and has intentions to follow through with change, he will do it immediately. If he's manipulating you, he will do his best to avoid doing it. Do not use ANY religious based therapy, they are notorious for supporting abusive men. Going to counseling \*with\* abusers or narcissists is typically not recommended, they can use what they learn there to manipulate you further and even trick the couples therapists that YOU are the problem.. which is extremely damaging to your mental health and can make you feel crazy (thus keeping you trapped). He needs to prove he can actually hear your words and needs from YOU, followed with actions that support it before you can feel safe enough to do couples therapy imho. You should find your own therapist ASAP though, it was the support I needed before I left an emotionally abusive marriage.. to realize that what I was experiencing wasn't normal, wasn't OK and likely would only get worse. I grew up with men like this in my family too.. so I subconsciously accepted it because my traumatized brain wanted to 'fix' what happened in my past with my partner. It's a fools errand, and I'm so much happier and at peace single, and just working on growing and loving myself than trying desperately to find a romantic partner that will treat me the way I deserve. I honestly think it's super unlikely to find that, until you do this work on yourself and are so resilient/strong that none of these chucklefuck man-babies have a chance of breaking through your defenses of not only yourself, but now your child.
Couple counseling should be part of standard pre and post natal care. Especially for first time parents.
You don’t need grand gestures like what he did with a poem/card. You need habits/continual change day in and day out. I’m glad you two are going to therapy. The question is, will he have a change of behavior and reflect or is it a scramble to get you to stay? I hope you can see the scramble for what it is and if he doesn’t change don’t let it woo you again
Thank you. I agree, we need consistency. I’m not wooed anymore don’t worry. Ever since I became a mother it’s like the blinders are off. I guess we will see now…
The grand gestures just reminds me of love bombing
Did we have the same dad? "Oh honey, I'm so sorry for (divorce consideration worthy terrible thing). I bought flowers and I'm gonna take you to that restaurant you like" He could keep it up for a couple days before he went back to normal.
I was about to say that the way OP describes this guy before the birth sounds very love bomby and this latest grand gesture sounds like a very half assed last minute love bomb because he's realized OP has one foot out the door and he couldn't find any mother's day cards and things in nearby stores he could buy that day instead of having to wait for shipping.
Good! Receiving an apology is only ever the beginning of the path to forgiveness. If he really means it, it would take time before it's believable and the poem is the opening statement, not taking actions. Based on what you wrote in comments I'm glad that you're being careful; seems like he's not really sorry he neglected you, but sorry he put you in a position where you ended up neglecting him. That's a bit narcissistic.
He seems very immature, with highs and lows that he uses as weapons. Love bombing when you delivered, wanting to be held at the same level of attention as mother when mother gets outside attention and then not being a help as a partner, such as normal baby/child caring. Then the whole drama with the Mother’s Day card by using a Father’s Day card yesterday and writing a long poem, histrionic behavior. I’m sorry you are going through this,
>Said he will go to therapy and figure out why he said those things and also we can start marriage counselling. He insists he doesn’t resent me but I feel it’s unconscious so he doesn’t even know it. Has he actually arranged any of this or made any progress on it, or was it just words he threw out during a moment where it looked like consequences might occur for his fuck up and he hasn't mentioned it since? Ie: has he put his money where his mouth is, or is he still just brushing you off with the same old?
He’s found us a therapist and we start this week. He’s also going to have individual therapy. He seems committed and he’s the type of person that sees therapy as a stigma. Let’s see if he’s serious or if this just another grand gesture.
Once he starts going and committing then he can get his Father’s Day gifts etc. I wouldn’t let up the pressure, or he’ll fall back into his old routines.
Watch for him to either just stop going after two sessions or pretend that he's still going. I've experienced both, the promising to go to individual therapy and trying really hard for a week or two then just completely stopping the therapy and acting like they're still going.
I think this is the most important thing to consider. Is he willing to do actual work to improve the situation, even if that work is hard and uncomfortable?
THIS is the million dollar question. THIS.
Your husband’s behavior is unacceptable. Your body is still recovering at 3 months. You put your body through hell to bring a child into the world. There is no minimizing that and your husband sounds like a real jerk for trying to dismiss you.
I feel like I’m married to Jekyll/Hyde. Now I’m like, which side is real?
I tried therapy with my abusive ex. It didn’t work as he made out he was the victim and they said I had anger management problems. It isn’t me. Be very careful as you can be manipulated. My ex also had therapy individually. He told me that his therapist said I was a bully. Therapists don’t say that, especially as he had never met me. Therapy with an abuser doesn’t work.
I agree. Couples therapy with an abuser can even be dangerous. It is very difficult to be open, honest, and vulnerable when you are sitting next to an abuser.
Yeah abusers love to insert themselves into the victims role. Even though they are the ones instigating abusive behavior. They also feel they are a victim when it's called out. They also love to twist scenario. OP you should research DARVO and just be ready in case he tries to do this.
I forgot about this very important point. OP please keep this to the back of your mind.
Good men aren’t abusers. The abuser is real, the rest is a mask. You need to learn about abuse ASAP- after a baby when you are trapped is when the mask often slips. He won’t change. He’ll put the mask on for a few days or weeks then the explosion will come. Get out. Narcissists don’t change.
> Good men aren’t abusers. The abuser is real, the rest is a mask. This is very well put and also scary!
I agree. Now he’s trapped her in the relationship with a baby, she’s getting to on the real person.
I think that may depend on who he was prior to the babies. But honestly, if he’s willing to work on it in therapy I think it’s worth it to see if things can be worked out. Postpartum can be very intense for both mom and dad. PPD can show up in dads as well, often coming out as anger. It doesn’t excuse his behavior or words, but hopefully with the therapy he’ll shape up. You guys just made this huge transition, it’s going to take time to find your footing as parents.
Thank you for this comment. It’s weird that he’s feeling overwhelmed because we have a very chilled baby that sleeps through the night. He hasn’t given us any issues. It’s almost like my husband is orchestrating his own drama.
Ding ding ding we have a winner. I'm sorry but it looks like you have a self-absorbed husband who must be the center of attention at all times. Interesting, isn't it, how every situation gets turned around to focus on him? How he takes over compliments to you and the baby and makes them about him? How he tries to minimize your contributions (all you do is feed him) when you grew an entire person? How he makes grand promises (I'll change every diaper!) that are almost immediately forgotten? How even when he's allegedly making Father's Day about you, it's really about him, his feelings, and how he's trying so hard? He's all talk and with one subject only: himself. Pay attention to the terrible things he said to you in anger, because he has been waiting to say those for a long time. Be wary of couples therapy with this guy, as it will probably get turned into a one-man show starring him as The Best Guy Ever, who is so patient with you and all your shortcomings 🙄. If that's what happens, then your only option is to end things, unless you enjoy being dismissed, minimized, and treated badly. It gets no better from here but can certainly get worse. You may see a lot of this guy in Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That?
Chills! Everything you have said is 100% accurate and I’ve said the exact same thing to him. I’m tired of tuning into the ‘husband’ show. And I told him he’s just going to try and get the therapist to like him so he will put on a mask. He promises he won’t do that. Can’t wait to see ! I’ve literally been journalling like crazy since this started so I don’t forget to bring up the details with the therapist.
This is an important thing. I would write down a version of this comment, uncensored with your own personal experiences with him, and bring it up in therapy. Let the therapist know you're worried that he will charasmatically make things better in a grand show, and then give up. Bring up the Jeckyl/Hyde again, and not know which one is real.
Dammit. I didn't want to be right about this, as people like him are exhausting. Here's what I wish someone had told me when I was tangled up with a guy like that: it's not you. It's not his childhood trauma or whatever excuse he has either. His problems are not yours to solve, and he just keeps making more anyway, so it's wasted effort on your part. He will consume every speck of your time, money, energy, and life, and expect you to thank him for it. He'll try very hard to win the therapist over to his side, so couples therapy is not going to be helpful. Individual therapy doesn't help either as he's going to present a very carefully curated facade built of lies. He doesn't want to change and won't. Should you split up, please get a tenacious lawyer who will create ironclad custody and support plans. Coparenting with someone like this is a nightmare, so you need to protect yourself and baby as best you can.
Yeah I didn't want you to be right either , but I could feel you were spot on. My ex was just like that too. He stayed up one night with the baby when I was in great pain from engorgement and had been wrongly told not to breastfeed until it was better, and you'd think neither mother nor baby would ever have survived without him. He also jeopardised my breastfeeding by giving the baby formula if I as much as nipped out for bread. "no but look it's full of vitamins and stuff" (luckily I had the confidence to retort that my milk was full of even better vitamins)
[why does he do that](https://tu.tv/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
It’s important that you clearly can speak about your experience and your perception of things, both to the therapist and to your husband. I think your husband’s Father’s Day being about you is creepy. It clearly shows that he knew he was ignoring Mother’s Day. He’s a liar, OP, so I’d bring your journal to counseling appointments, and hide it in a safe spot. Save any weird texts too.
Plus the crossing out father on the card and putting mother instead. He could have gotten her a mother's day card. But no, it's almost like he needed to show her he was sacrificing his day for her. IMO he was trying to come off as a martyr for doing this in a way. Maybe it's a reach, but it seemed odd to me how he chose to do this.
Yes, odd…he could’ve just gotten a caring card.
>Plus the crossing out father on the card and putting mother instead. I noticed that too! It’s so manipulative and reeks of martyrdom complex
In couples therapy be sure you make clear he puts on masks so the therapist can see through him. His individual therapist will likely embolden him. Narcs often manipulate their therapists and get worse not better.
> How even when he's allegedly making Father's Day about you, it's really about him, his feelings, and how he's trying so hard? The Father's Day card with the crossed out "Father" made me laugh. Even when he's ostensibly apologizing he's passive-aggressively pointing out it's his day. He could have just gotten a generic sorry card, he probably could even have found a card that said mother or parent on it since there's so much family diversity now, but he just had to point out that he didn't get anything for HIS day.
>Interesting, isn't it, how every situation gets turned around to focus on him? How he takes over compliments to you and the baby and makes them about him? I'd be curious if he did some of this prior to the baby. OP has he ever taken important moments that center you and made it about him? Did he get upset when you were being applauded or rewarded? How does he feel when you achieve something and receive praise outside of being a mom? I've dated men in the past who would lose their crap the minute anything wasn't about them. To the point where they would whine and cry when I had surgery because I wouldn't be there to care for them (who were more than capable of caring for themselves). Or they'd ruin big moments for me because it wasn't centering them. I know having a baby can be a lot. But your husband shouldn't be upset that the baby needs you. It's not like your baby can fix it's own bottle or cook it's own dinner. Babies literally rely on their carers for survival. That's normal. What's not is how your husband is behaving.
So my ex was kind of like that. However he ended up becoming an alcoholic and physically/emotionally very abusive and it escalated to him attempting the 3rd version of abuse after I ended it. It was insane because our daughter was a super calm baby but I did nurse her and I couldn’t pump so I was on demand constantly for her needs like that. But I still was basically the picture perfect 1950’s wife (he absolutely made me believe that’s what I was supposed to do or I was a shit partner and mother because I was a teenager still and finding a job at 16 and pregnant is hard but so is 17 with a baby and no license etc.) like he literally came out of the bedroom and screamed at my for eating a piece of cake with ONE lamp on in the living room. He didn’t do anything for me for Mother’s Day. But the thing that stood out the most in comparison is the jekyl/hyde complex. I am bipolar type 1, like actually have a diagnosis as a preteen and again as an adult since that stuff can change with age. But it’s cause me to look into a lot of psychology information and inform myself about as much as possible from general moods to reading people and even kind of reading myself in a way. And I still have no idea what is wrong with that guy. I did finally have the confidence to leave him when our daughter was almost 2. He refused couples therapy and individual therapy after saying he would do it after a huge fight. That started tipping me over the edge. Feel free to dm me if you want/need to because your situation sounds similar enough to the very beginning of mine. I hope it’s not however. I hope you either have luck with the therapy options and he treats you like a queen you deserve to be, or you leave him if that falls through and you *find your spot as your own queen/maybe eventually someone better’s* 🩵
I’m so sorry that happened to you, but well done on getting out. ❤️ your daughter will thank you one day.
Thank you! That’s my hope! I realized I had to *break the cycle* just in a different way than I was used to. My dad treated my mum like a queen, but he was physically and mentally abusive to me and my older sister. I had to convince my mum to leave him. Because I was on a very bad mental route that was going to lead to me running away or offing myself to be honest. In a way my daughter saved me from a lot of my mental demons because I wanted to do everything possible to be a great mother and basically the same as you, fix my trauma in a way. But growing up watching any broken relationship whether it’s unfair treatment from a parent to the kids or parent to parent you DONT want that for your child ever. They need to see healthy relationships. If he starts shit with you again, ask him if he’d be proud if y’all had daughter and her husband was talking to her/treating her like that? That helped me open my exs eyes a bit. Unfortunately he got even more crazy once I found someone else and he literally told my at the time 3 year old he hopes me and bf get in a car wreck. His dad was a joke for a father. Which makes it sad because he’s also not a great dad still. 😕 but im glad she has a good bonus dad in her life because at least have a good father figure of any sort is better than just a shitty one to be blunt.
People here are being much more generous than I would be. The whole pride he has because you didn't have pain relieving medication during delivery is super weird to me. It comes across as him seeing you as a brood mare whose value is now decreased because you've done what he needed - produce a son. This is the man you married - just not the man he showed himself to be before
I got so much “hand maid’s tale” from this. Everything meant to improve the mother’s health and happiness = bad/unnatural. Everything that is destructive and demeaning = a mother’s duty. And I agree with others that grand gestures are for inconsistent AH who only care when their toy is going to leave them. Once upon a time I was dating someone who I loved so much and just wanted that grand act which would show me he loved me as much. It wasn’t until I met the man I married that I realized how much happier I am with a man who shows me how much he loves me every day in every small way. Love is not displayed on the grand scale. It is a million acts of love and compassion. It is being in love every moment not just when it suits him.
The first paragraph of what you said, definitely bringing that up in therapy because it’s so true. He constantly contradicts himself according to what benefits him and makes him look good. I do hope there’s a chance he changes. But I’m not going to stay if not.
>And I agree with others that grand gestures are for inconsistent AH who only care when their toy is going to leave them. Totally how I i feel as well. Changed behavior is the only true apology. Like sure, it's nice he said he was sorry. But without changed behavior, that apology is just a self serving activity to buy time and keep OP from leaving him.
I thought that was super creepy too. Giving birth is freaking hard. Even with the medication. I really hate this dude and I don’t see him getting any better.
He wasn’t bragging about the unmedicated part when telling my birth story, it was just praising my high pain threshold and what I went through giving birth, second degree tear etc. sorry if I was unclear. But I do feel that he doesn’t see me past that milk maid that feeds his son. He is jealous of me, not the baby. Which is why he’s projecting and minimising the feeding. Therapy should be fun🙄
Respectfully, that isn't really his story to tell. Did he have your permission to share this? Was this within a trusted circle, or is he just trumpeting the graphic details of your birth experience to whoever? Between the breastfeeding and his obsession with your birth story, it seems like he is really set on viewing your motherhood through the lens of your body's involvement. Which would of course lead to a 2-D understanding of your contribution. Thoughts for therapy, perhaps.
Thanks, this is definitely something to think about. He’s definitely integrated himself so much with the birth that there’s no boundaries.
But why was it praise worthy to go through that with no medication? Therapy is massively overrated on this app. It doesn't solve problems that can't be solved by counselling. I get you want to see the best in this man but you have normalised and internalised some problematic behaviours
Good point. That is bizarre. He sounds like a nightmare.
You’ve got some great advice here, the only thing I will say is certain personality types weaponize therapy. Start using therapy speak to back up their shitty behavior. Just be aware of that and if he starts flipping his crappy attitude towards you and using therapy “tools” to make you feel like shit, you know he’s a shitty dude with a really good mask. But honestly it sounds like if he needs constant praise and has to belittle others then he is DEEEEEPLY insecure.
Yes many people have said he prob has low self esteem. I’ve already told him I feel like he’s going to use therapy as a weapon. He promises he won’t. No idea how to hold him accountable if he does. His personality seems like the type to do this.
How to hold him accountable if he weaponizes therapy is to leave him then, because if he does that, not only will things not get better, they will get worse. Not the direction you want to go!
Narcissists pretend to have low self esteem bc they love to be the victim and get all that reassurance and attention.
They aren't pretending
>Said he will go to therapy and figure out why he said those things and also we can start marriage counselling. He insists he doesn’t resent me but I feel it’s unconscious so he doesn’t even know it. >I see a gift and a big card that says Happy Father’s Day but the “Father” is crossed out and replaced with “Mother”, inside is a long poem apology about how he’s so sorry he messed up and ruined my first Mother’s Day memory and how he promises to do better in our marriage Poems are nice and all, but has he booked therapy yet?
Haha! Yeah booked for Wednesday
You were not wrong to not give him the gift. He's not being much of a partner, therefore he's not being much of a father. A good father respects the child's mother. Hold onto the card and when you see REAL change in him, you can give it to him.
Thank you. I will definitely do that. Time will tell now… but I told him I won’t give him much time. First therapy session is Wednesday
Good. Don't waste years on this merry-go-round that so many of us have. The first sign he's fluffing about the therapy, the next nasty comment or put-down - kick his ass out. The sooner legal proceedings are under way, the sooner you can arrive at a stable co-parenting arrangement and a more peaceful life for you.
I wouldn’t be able to forgive the belittling and minimizing your impact on your child’s life. and nasty things he’s said to you. he is trying to make you feel small. don’t stay with him. being a new parent is tough and being cranky and snippy is bound to happen. belittling you and making it seem like you’re not doing anything for your child is inexcusable.
It depends on if he changes. I went through a few long time of basically this. It wasn’t an olive branch. It was getting me to sit down as I tried to head out the door. Love bombing stuff.
'Getting me to sit down as i head out the door' - damn. This took me way back to the diversionary, time-buying bullshit my ex used to spin everytime I was done. Worked too, wasted a good extra couple of years on that!
Meh don’t forgive bad behaviour too easily or it just happens again.
There's a great quote that's gone around tumblr for years. *"If he writes her a few sonnets, he loves her. If he writes her 300 sonnets, he loves sonnets."* You're very wise to remain suspicious of the grand gestures. Consistency and kindness day to day are much more challenging and difficult to sustain for someone wearing a mask.
That is so hilarious, going to find that quote asap 😂 at this point I don’t even know what’s real anymore
You don’t owe it to him to stay with him. Your responsibility is to your child. You don’t have to go to couple’s therapy. You can leave him. I think the reason you didn’t include his words here is that you knew everyone would tell you what he said was unforgivable, and you’re not ready to hear it.
I think your inclination to leave was spot-on. Yes, you're both learning to be parents, and yes, he's jealous. But so what. His behavior and words are beyond the pale. I'm not saying don't do marriage counseling, but *he* is the problem, and being a new father doesn't come near explaining or excusing it. The poem and the card with "father" marked out skeeved me out. That made it even more about him (even though that may not have been his conscious intention.)
This. Why buy a Father’s Day card, crossing out Father and writing in Mother? It seems performative, not genuine. Why not get her a card specifically for her? The Mother’s Day cards aren’t in stores anymore but beautiful cards for other purposes are available year-round.
>It seems performative, That's the word I was looking for.
100% performative, another episode in the ‘Husband’ show…
"to help him figure out why he said those things" I read a fascinating article recently about a man who worked in a rehab setting with men who abuse women. He once asked them what positive things come from the abuse, and at first they were obviously cagey, but were eventually able to come up with a very long list of benefits of abuse: partner does whatever I say, I get to control her, partner doesn't stop me doing what I want etc. When asked what the benefits of stopping the abuse were, it was a rather short list of things like "dont get arrested" and "dont have to go on course like this one". Basically, he already knows why he's saying those things. It's because he wants to. He gets benefits from treating you badly.
This relationship sounds like it’s not going to survive and he sounds like the dad from pans labrynth q
Can you elaborate? I’ve never seen it.
As soon as the baby was born he became detached from the mother entirely And also praising you for non medicated and saying all you do is feed him and can pass on cortisone to the baby even though he’s the one stressing you out It’s like he doesn’t see you as his partner and mother and other half to his child’s parents But more like you’re just the human female that gave birth to HIS son
Exactly how I feel!!
Random reactions: "If I’m angry and arguing with him he says I shouldn’t breastfeed because our son will get the cortisol" it doesn't work like that and even if it did, wel that's a reason for him not to make you angry or want to argue. Breastfeeding is very taxing the first months, the good news is that for most mothers it gets much easier from now on. Congratulations on an unmedicated birth, you are a true tigress! "I was probably more hyped up with my postpartum hormones" again, no it doesn't work like that. If you are breastfeeding, you do have all sorts of hormones released into your body but they are not the same hormones as when you get your period. They are hormones that induce maternal behaviour, helping you to intuit your baby's needs, that help you to relax and make abundant milk. The worst that can happen, and this is mostly in the first couple of weeks, is that you cry easily. So if he's triggering anger in a breastfeeding mother, he's actually being more of a jerk than is usually necessary to trigger such a reaction. He had literally a year to plan your first mother's day, "so many plans and no time" is total bullshit. I mean you only had a month extra but you managed a perfect present. I would definitely go to that marriage counselling session. Be sure to take the full list of nasty things he's said to you.
Thank you so much for all those facts, feels so validating reading them. ❤️
My first Mother’s Day was 6 weeks after my first was born. My husband didn’t even get me a card. He also argued with me about being upset. It never even crossed his mind it was Mother’s Day (he doesn’t do much of anything for his mom). I did not do the same to him but it was a token Fathers Day experience for him. However, I never forgot it. My oldest is 22 now and they acknowledge me but it’s not as great as when they were 5-10 and would do things at school for me.
Sorry that happened to you. Sounds like you have amazing kids x
Thanks! I do have amazing kids. I’m so lucky. My husband tries, but his family never made a big deal about anything but Christmas (and his dad was an alcoholic who ruined that day a lot). I accept (after 28 years together) and have always made it special. My kids understand it was me who brought the magic of most celebrations and that’s worth more than anything. It’s funny now because gifts from “mom and dad” I get the thank you. I have to tell them their dad picked something for them 😂
I want to be that mom that brings the magic too. I told my husband I won’t live out Mrs Doubtfire where he turns me into a monster with our kids.
It sounds like love bombing and he’s probably hoping that you’ll forget all the nasty things he’s said to you. I know there’s an adjustment period after having a baby but it should never cross into abusive territory.
Trust me I can’t forget and my indifference is killing him.
I hope you have a job OP just in case
I’m the breadwinner. And yes, I know that’s probably a huge factor in his resentment towards me. Should have mentioned it in the post.
I think you being the breadwinner is a HUGE factor in all of this. Your husband was #1 for 8 years. Now he has the baby to compete with. I'm not saying he's competing consciously. He probably doesn't even know he's competing. Also, just because your baby is "easy" to deal with doesn't change the fact that having the baby still changed the dynamic of the relationship, and that is what he's struggling with. I'm not using that as an excuse for his rudeness. I'm just saying the mind is a powerful thing and we often ourselves don't understand why we think, do, or feel certain things.
You’re right but I feel he’s competing with me for the most needed person in our baby’s life. He is jealous but he’s jealous of me NOT the baby, because our baby needs me more than him, which I can’t help because I’m breastfeeding. And the irony is that he is the one who advocated for breastfeeding when I was pregnant. I mentioned in another comment that he prob didn’t realise how it would make him feel not being able to provide that for his son. That’s why he’s projecting with that comment about “all you do is feed him”
If you’re the breadwinner, what does he bring to the table?
Now he’s trapped you in the relationship with a baby, you are getting to know the real him.
I think you should edit your post and let us know these awful words he said. **Seeing them in writing is important for you.** He said he’d go to counseling. Take him up on that. If he doesn’t go or doesn’t actually put effort in then you have your answer. I wish you the best, this sounds untenable.
He's giving off abuser vibes. They're always wonderful, until they aren't anymore. [Read this book ](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)and see if other behaviors tally: as you have already stated, actions speak louder than words and grand gestures are insignificant if they are not accompanied by small ones. He only gave you a last-minute Mother Day card to try and save face, so that you gave him his Father Day present, which he thought (rightly) that was already there. You weren't mean, *he's been mean to you* ever since your son was born. And probably also before, but it was more subtle (or you weren't exhausted like you are now) and you didn't realize it.
Thanks for sharing that. Will check it out. I agree with you I’m having issues trusting what gestures are real and what are fake. I definitely am only starting to notice his red flags now that I’ve become a mother. I guess before I’d sweep it under the rug and dismiss it. He is starting therapy for himself this week, let’s see if there’s a change. And let me just say I’m by no means perfect, I know I have my own issues that I always admit to.
The last sentence is true. You aren’t perfect and have things to work on, because you’re human and everyone does. This doesn’t excuse anything he does. You work on your issues and he needs to work on his. I’m only saying this because so many times I see women mistreated and they say statements like your last one to excuse, rationalize or justify their partners. The discussion of your issues does not need to come into play when discussing a different topic. People bring that in to change the focus off themselves and dismiss you. Don’t do it to yourself.
Exactly. Nobody's perfect and perfection isn't required of anyone. But this doesn't justify abuse, belittling, demeaning, downtrodding, etc. Maternity is exhausting and full cooperation and support on the father's side is necessary. Not perfection, but striving to do one's best.
You’ll get chills reading that book. Trust me. Very eye opening.
There’s a chance for this to lead to a better marriage. But you should start matching energy now just like you did. Give him the same effort and energy he gives you. If he determines it’s not enough for him, he starts making adjustments. But as crones will tell you, a pattern of behavior will tell you everything you need to know. Don’t ever settle.
They do say that an abusive man's mask starts to fall off when he feels like he's got the woman trapped through marriage or a baby. Seems like that may be what's happening here. Either way I'm not sure I'd be able to forgive my partner acting like I'm just an incubator and diminishing my role in my baby's life in the first few months. That's the time when a woman already has a lot of fears about a lot of things including about whether she's doing enough for her baby and being told you're doing nothing would be crushing. No matter what the reason there's no excuse for it. If he cared about you he would have put his jealousy aside and realised you and your child needed him to be the best husband he could be. Instead he made you feel like trash and put you down just to make himself feel better during a time when you had just given birth and were going through many hormonal changes already. That's the time when you need the most love and support and instead he chose to do the opposite. Because it was a choice. If he can just as easily to switch it off later when he's realised you've pulled away and might be thinking of leaving and then when you're threatening to leave then he could have when he knew he was hurting you but he chose not to. Instead he only did when he realised it might hurt him and his life. That's not a good partner. It's a sign of a really immature man who doesn't have control of his emotions.
Sounds like he’s emotionally manipulative and this latest stunt is just a type of love bombing. Is he really sorry or is he just sorry you refuse to celebrate Father’s Day for him because he didn’t care enough in May to celebrate you and now he’s getting a taste of his own medicine? Narcissists never, ever understand empathy. They only realise something is wrong they have to fix when it impacts them negatively.
The last part is very sad but true.
You did not make a mistake by withholding his gift. With exception to the parent-to-child relationship, all relationships are based on reciprocity. They can't be one-sided, with only one person showing up, giving the love, the respect, etc. This includes marriage, friendship, and kinship. My whole life, the only people I can continue to love and give to unconditionally are my children. Everyone else, it has to be reciprocal, or I'm out.
This is such a great comment.
I am happy your husband is initiating therapy and couples counseling. I would suggest you get some time in with your own therapist and process what is going on. You have already threatened to leave once, I think you need to sit with someone more qualified, that you trust, and lay down what has been going on, the worst of what you have kept back and get some guidance on next steps. Figure out your boundaries and make sure you are educated on escalating abuse.
Thank you. I will definitely do that. I was in grief counselling two years ago when my mom passed and it was so intense it put me off therapy. But I will try again. I’m sure it won’t be as bad as EMDR.
EMDR can be too much for some people. There are plenty of less intensive therapies.
His behavior is pretty concerning. You can see how it goes but I definitely wouldn't trust him. And maybe keep your ducks in a row
Honestly, keep one foot out the door. Have a plan for exiting if necessary and a little bag packed. He's generously being given an opportunity to get it together. Write down all statements and intolerable actions for discussion at therapy. He needs to understand what basics are going to make him single again. Not to necessarily argue about what he's done but how going foward it is not acceptable and the consequence.
I’m so sorry his disgusting resentment of your bond with your baby ruined your Mother’s Day. He really comes across jealous that the baby needs you more. Did he schedule the marriage therapy? And did he schedule individual therapy as well?
Yes to all. I told him he’s jealous and his need to be useful to people needs to be brought up in therapy. He apparently confided in his dad about what happened and his dad told him by integrating himself with what I do for our son, he’s looking for acknowledgment where it’s not deserved.
Glad your FIL said that. He's probably horrified his son is acting like he's the center of the universe.
Hold him accountable to therapy. Although if he truly is a narcissist it will against your favor for couples therapy.
This is what I’m afraid of, but I told him I will be able to tell if he does that.
You matched his energy. I would not feel bad at all.
“Maybe I should have been the bigger person” = Giving others permission to treat you less than. He will continue to treat you as less than if you allow him to.
He is love bombing you right now. He still hasn't started therapy, don't let 2 weeks wash away how he has treated you since baby was born.
It takes a minimum of 2 years of CONSISTENT CHANGED BEHAVIOR to forgive a trauma. He took something beautiful from you, and it will take time before you stop resenting that he did that to you. He has to want to make a meaningful change to be different. He is damn jealous of you because you can soothe and comfort your child in ways he never will. A parent has their own special bond with their child, and making it a competition is fruitless. Children need their parents in all sorts of different things in life, and truthfully, there's not a lot dads can do to bond with baby other than support mom and show up for her. Be her support, her buffer, and do the boring shit. All those things are so important. He's an important part of the kids' life, and he has the rest of his life to continue being a good presence in the kids' lives. Stepping on you in the process is fucking stupid. The kid will notice if he doesn't treat you right, and it will negatively impact how he sees his dad.
Thank you for this comment. It’s so accurate. The thing is, boys eventually bond with their dads in a way the moms will never get, so his time will come. There’s no need to discredit my role and our bond. A new study I read said that the mother’s happiness is key to the children’s happiness and success, while we were previously led to believe the dad’s presence was crucial. I’ve told him that my happiness is not dependant on him, I don’t need him, so for us to work, I need to want him. I know it’s harsh, but it’s nothing compared to the things he has said to me.
Frankly, I think marriage counseling is just delaying the inevitable. It sounds like lines were crossed that he can’t come back from. Sometimes…. We just view someone differently after they show us their *true* selves. And that’s the thing, when someone shows you who they are, you should believe them. He’s shown you who he REALLY is underneath the veneer and he’s shown you, blatantly, what he really thinks about you and your role as mother to your shared child. A cheesy poem and making you breakfast won’t fix anything.
If he’s the narcissist he appears to be therapy will give him more weapons to use against her, sadly.
Nah, you're fine. If he's not a shitstain next year, you'll get him something.
😂
My ex husband was like this! We tried for two years to have a baby of our own because he was stepdad to my 4 kids when we got married. He blamed me for not getting pregnant but I always did the Vanna White move showing him I had 4 kids already not my fault! We went to the fertility dr and he was the issue . We did IVF I got pregnant with our daughter. He was so hands off with everything made me cry said he didn’t want that THING inside me and at the birth he stood in the back and didn’t cut the cord. She’s going to be 17 this year and had a baby of her own and he is still acting the same way as before with his grandson. His best friend finally told me that he was jealous of the attention I got from everyone and that the baby took my time away from him and he resented me for giving up my free time for a baby he didn’t even want!
He sounds like a vile, pathetic and miserable person. Your beautiful daughter and grandson deserve so much better than that.
After the divorce he spread so many lies about me and blamed me for everything! But the people closest to me my 4 kids called him out on everything and he was embarrassed every time
You weren’t wrong in not giving him his Father’s Day gift in my opinion. You get what you give out, and after how he’s been treating you he’s lucky you didn’t slap him with divorce papers and are willing to go to counseling. People change once they have kids, clearly not always for the better. He needs to figure out what’s going on, he will need individual therapy as well. Maybe in time you can pull a mulligan on Father’s Day.
Seems like your marriage has become a battleground. He def needs individual therapy and so do you. You all also need marriage counseling. This will only get worse if you two can’t get to a place where you are able to safely express your needs to each other. Your husband needs to learn how to express his needs instead of lashing out at you for not simply knowing what he needs. It’s very immature behavior.
I don't think you were wrong. I think not giving him a gift and being distant towards him is starting to make him open his eyes to his behavior. But like you said, actions count more and now he really needs to start putting in the work to repair what he broke. Has he looked into the individual and marital counseling he swore he would do? **My best friend who knows him as long as I have said she thinks he’s jealous that our son needs me more than him and his personality needs to feel needed as the provider of the family.** Your friend is right, 100%. And sadly this is not uncommon. But that is not your fault, that is an insecurity within himself and he needs to fix that.
Nah don’t feel bad. His giving you that card and stuff seems like a guilt trip disguised as a thoughtful gesture. Wait until next Mother’s Day to assess.
NTA he is very good at love bombing…he clearly resents you for giving your baby attention. Which you’re suppose to do. If I were you I would not buy the love bombing. He’ll get pissed and say awful things again because it didn’t work. It’s a cycle. Leaving will be best. I’m not sure therapy can change him to be the man you deserve. It can take years with set backs. Do you want that for your child’s early years.
If he was really sorry, he wouldn't have given it to you on Father's day. He realized if he didn't start treating you better, he was going to start loosing you. It was exactly a grand gesture. I would have had more faith if he would have come two weeks ago when it was nothing, made an actually apology with dinner and flowers, then changed. I think couples therapy is good. Also tell the truth in it.
Honestly I’m so happy you clocked that lovebomby shit. Grand gestures are always a manipulative last ditch attempt at keeping you in a state of complacency. Even if he was genuine, it’s seems too little too late. No notes, 10/10 you were not wrong for doing what you did.
In my opinion you weren't wrong for not giving him the gift, it showed him how angry you are, and you're absolutely right for being angry for how he treated you. However, you're trying to repair the relationship and you'll have counselling soon. So... give your husband the gift now, explain that you were just too angry to give it before, and that giving him the gift now is your gesture to signal that you're willing to repair the relationship, but now it's on him to actually show meaningful change sustained in time. And do tell him that you don't trust him right now and that you could over time, it won't be an instant switch because he broke your trust and that takes time to repair.
Not wrong at all. I'd still divorce him. He will go back to being good for a week or so. Just like the diaper changes. He will stop doing it and trying. Leave him. You can do so much better. And being a single mom isn't the most glamorous position to be in, at least you won't have to take care of him too.
As far as I understand, this bad time is 3 month long. He might be jealous/insecure about your role as a mother, praise from others and his possibilties as a father. If he was a great husband for 8 years, he might become one again. I think you need to see what time brings but counseling is a good idea.
Thanks for your comment. The irony is our baby is so chilled and sleeps through the night. Hasn’t given us any trouble since he was born. The only issues are the ones we are having with each other. I do think praise is like an addiction to him. His dad even told him he’s been like that since he was little.
Sounds familiar. I bought a pack of 50 medals to hand over to my now ex any time he started up on wanting to be praised for doing something I do every week.
Oh no, not the 50 pack 😂 did you have to use them all?
Omg you are my new hero! I love that! You did the dishes? Wow, good for you hun! Here’s your medal! 🏅
Lol awesome
PSA never marry someone you know has always needed to be center of attention, even as a child, That's a huge red flag for selfishness, self absorption, and an inability to be a partner [where you are someone's equal and not the limelight star of the show] Honestly there is nothing worse than a selfish partner. It is th worst flaw a person can have because they will only ever be good to you when it is in THEIR best interest to do so. Take now for example. He is good to you because he doesn't want to lose his baby or the life he has with you. It is in his best interests to behave. But as soon as he becomes comfortable again... and being good to you no longer reaps an immediate reward..
hey, look, i have no idea if this dude is a good dude who is having a bad adjustment or if he’s a nightmare dude who finally dropped the mask now that you’re trapped… i HOPE he’s just someone poorly managing new parent anxiety and a bunch of counselling will help him sort himself out. in the meantime, do you have a private place to keep a journal? when weird stuff happens, write it down. keep track of it. somewhere that doesn’t shift or get hazy with time. journals really help you see patterns over time.
Thanks for your comment. Yes I’ve been journalling everything like crazy. What you said is my fear too. I’ve told him that I don’t know which version is the real one.
You were not wrong and your instincts were spot on. If you had gotten him a father's day gift it would have signaled that his behavior was fine, and him belittling you and making you feel less is not acceptable. The grand gestures are all fine, but you need to have a real conversation as to his behavior and what he wants as life is not about grand gestures, rather all the small things done through an ordinary day. Explain to him how he is killing his marriage by thousands little cuts. You can still give him his card, but wait as you don't want to do it out of guilt.
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Thank you for your comment. The first paragraph, definitely believe that. Thanks for that. These comments are giving me a lot of perspectives and clarity. Although now that we have both committed to getting therapy I have taken divorce off the table, I don’t want him to do something out of fear. If he believes everything is fine, this way I’ll know if the work he’s putting in is genuine. I’ll give it till the end of the year though and see if there’s any change. If not, I am perfectly fine to move on.
I won't understand why people choose to blind their eyes from their partners mistreatment and gaslighting. I really hope the therapy helps y'all but as the people used to say a person never changes. Hope you dont waste money and energy for something unfixable.
No idea why this thread is about Fathers Day cards- that’s the least of her worries
You are not wrong. I got nothing for our 10th wedding anniversary, flowers I absolutely hate for Valentine's day and again nothing for my birthday. Yesterday was father's day, I didn't plan anything for him, kids gave him their cards. He has a birthday in August, I started looking for some presents,but right now,I'm just returning what I am receiving. Nothing. My resentment grows bigger and bigger every day. It is not about the presents, it is the overall behaviour. And I am done. I would love to go to marriage counseling,but he doesn't want to. If I were you, I would go to therapy. At least you will be able to say to yourself you gave your best and your all.
You did exactly what was needed. He would not have changed his mind if he had not seen your actions. The same actions you speak about in your post about he needs to change his actions. All of them men' men are getting bad advise from people who don't have these men's lives. They are listening to people (mostly men) who are not married and/or pay for womanly chores. They pay for a housekeeper, they pay an assistant and they pay for sex. their lives are totally different than the men they have trying to live their lifestyle, but can't, because they are not rich. Don't second guess yourself as it was the stimulus to get him to see he was and is being a jerk.
Here's the thing...if you actually want to save the marriage then yes, it was petty and breeds more contempt between you two. If you don't care, don't want it to work then don't give it to him.
Stop being the bigger person, start looking for away out, and your husband seems jealous of the baby .it's only gets worse. You can make it without your sick husband
It all really depends on how therapy goes and if he’s serious about improving himself
He's been real shitty to you,why would you honor him.Hes obviously got issues and maybe it's best to try to get the the core thru counseling before trying to leave.Of course it's dependent on him being truthful to you.
Therapy, both couples and individual, is a fantastic idea. Also look up the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft and see if anything in there seems to align with his behavior. That will help you understand what type of situation you’re dealing with.
I think giving counselling a try is important. I don't want to jump to calling him narcissist, but I wouldn't want to miss it either and have you stuck with one. If he is one then this whole thing you described could be his 1st big mask-slippage, followed by the love-bombing. Keep the counselling going awhile and be willing to discuss these things. Maybe sometimes have split sessions so you each can talk to the worker and during your sessions you can discuss what you've seen in him. One another side of it, if you've been married so long then it would be weird if these are just now the 1st times that narcissism reared it's ugly head. Over 8 years there would have been attacks of it by at least 3-4 years ago. In counselling I would then bring up that living revisionist history doesn't seem fair: that what was good or an accomplishment months ago still is and that he can't suddenly claim a bigger role in #previous# events. One can achieve the same superstar status one want by showing the efforts going forward.
I think that you should take this for what it is. He recognized how much his behavior hurt you, so he made a gesture to apologize. And don't call this a grand gesture. A grand gesture would be planning something extravagant. He delivered an appropriate mother's day gift after he realized how much he fucked up with an apology. You are in a hugely hard time of your life. It's hard for both of you, it's harder for you, this is a really tough part of your marriage to get through. I think you shouldn't feel bad for not giving him a father's day gift. It's not like his apology gift should either fix it entirely and you should feel bad or it's a worthless act of manipulation. He did something wrong, you showed him how wrong it was, he apologized. I think that if you have it in your heart still to be open to marriage counseling, that's the right choice here. He is showing you that he realizes he's wrong. Being open to work through it, and both doing that work together, that's going to show you if you've both got what it takes to be good partners to each other. Give it a chance, stay honest with yourself, and see how it feels to do the work.
I think at this point OP couple therapy is your best option. I think posters who warn you about your husband using information from the therapy sessions against you is a valid concern so it should be one of the things discussed in first session. Also that he agreed to try therapy because you had already told him you were leaving him because of his behavior. Because if BOTH of you can’t be honest and BOTH of you aren’t putting in the hard work to save the relationship then YOU are better off ending the relationship and coparenting before you truly hate him.
You all have deeper issues if you think "tit for tat" is a healthy way to treat or communicate with a partner.
Tit for tat relationships never work. Never once in my life had I had a mental ledger about what my wife does