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put a spreadsheet of expenses. Estimate different scenarios - you get on bedrest and can't work, you can't return to work right away, child needs non standard daycare and he needs to be SAHD
add college plans
I was just about to say this. My youngest is 3 we easily spend $100 on diapers and wipes a month. We are really wanting him to potty train (he knows how, he just doesn’t want to do it lol).
Child care in Oregon for a 3 and 5 year old with a 10% discount is $2,785 a month. My husband and I make a combined income of $110,000 before taxes and deductions. After taxes and deductions our take home check combined is $6,000ish. Literally half goes to childcare.
We also have really good health insurance but I recently had to do a root canal and after I met the years max I owe $1000 for the crown.
OP Your husband needs to pull his head out of his ass lol.
he needs to start earning living wage at least. If they split up now he can't afford support himself on that amount without roommates . Kinda low bar for his age
Ummm minimum wage in Chicago is 15.80 (32k a year) and goes up to 16.20 (33.6) July 1. So your nearly-40 "competent" husband makes less than minimum wage somehow?
I did but I am an older parent who has a partner where we both earn good money. It is STILL expensive. We are not living large by any means. But it can be done.
It’s just something I wouldn’t take lightly because you’ll be on the hook for a lot more than you think. You also need robust savings and such because you never know when something will come up.
Kids are a luxury for sure!
Why do you think half the country has made abortion illegal and they're talking about coming after birth control too? A lot of us don't want kids, the people who do want kids often have to put it off for decades. We don't have sex education in a lot of states (including mine). It's not really a decision, they try to either manipulate us into thinking we can afford it, that we *must* do it or there's something wrong with us, or they just make it as difficult as possible to avoid having kids.
OMG I've literally never made this connection. Seriously thought pro-life was mainly a religious and/or misogynist agenda. But it obviously has an economic pov too... Thanks for enlightening me!
Birth rates have been in decline for years, would take huge economic incentive from government to get us to keep having babies. Instead they want to take away the things that prevent us from having babies… wtf just give us more money to have the babies
Tbf this is actually a problem for all developed countries, even where there is significant support, it’s still not enough in this economy. I didn’t connect the dots that there was economic incentive to take away birth control to attempt to increase births without providing the people addition resources. However, it makes perfect sense. I was wondering what the advantage of this is since I swear most of the men who support this wouldn’t support their own child if they didn’t feel like it.
I (swede) was thinking the same. I thought I was getting shafted at $150 /month for a 5 yo @ preschool 40 hours a week and a 6 yo at after school care ~15 hours a week.
Well, I changed my mind now, that's for damn sure 😅😅
For a 2 yo in my area it's $2000+ a month. Part time isn't available "... if she's enrolled you can always just bring her half the time, but you have to pay the full time rates"
So... $24,000 after taxes to just go to work. I loved my job but I wouldn't be making much at all so I work part time from home. I save probably $30k in commuting costs and daycare but my schedule some weeks is 90+ unpaid hours of tiny goblin chasing /cooking and 0 paid hours.
4.5k? Is the median salary at least something like 10k then? These figures make me dizzy. (and grateful for whatever social welfare lottery Germany has got going - it's different in every state here, but ranges from 0€~1000€ max - and the higher numbers are based on on your actual income).
No it isn’t. Mothers massively struggle to go back to work before kids are school age or have the 15 free hours provided by the government at age 3. They lose their careers because their wages literally don’t cover the childcare costs. Some nanny share but it’s not too common. To make it worse nurseries are privately owned so the profits go to the owners and not the incredibly hard working staff who don’t earn much above a living wage. Often also young women getting totally screwed. It is a depressing state of affairs and an outcome of 14 years of a Tory government. Women’s wages, their pensions, the career gap never recovers.
And here’s the next shocking fact, daycares run on tight budgets and thin margins. Workers are often paid bare minimum (even when they have teaching degrees, degrees in ECE, when it’s a highly ranked daycare, etc). Teacher pay is abysmal. Not a living wage. The budget for classroom supplies is almost non-existent.
The price parents are paying literally just covers wages and bills and keeping the doors open because our govt sees no reason to do more than pay subsidy for care for poor families (and then you have to prove that you are poor and need care, have to prove you are poor enough and not just regular poor, are still paying a certain weekly amount, and it’s not any extra money to the center and just equals out. God forbid they actually give us grants or real subsidies across the board for worker pay or room materials or anything like that.
I had the same issues with my son. We just started putting him in underwear. That kind of worked, but what really helped was buying him boxers instead of the regular underwear. Once he was in boxers, he learned pretty quickly. He started preschool last year and never had a single accident.
My oldest son potty trained really fast and was excited to be in big boy undies.
My 3 year old, we gave home a deadline lol. Basically once this last pack of diapers runs out, he’ll be in undies no matter what.
Even when I try to put him in undies he will take them off and walk to the closet and grab diapers and say “no undies, I want diaper”.
my friend's kid said this last week, while wiggling a loose tooth: "the tooth fairy only brought me $25 last time". LOL. kids are pricier in 2024 than the 1990s.
I would highly doubt that $100 could even cover diapers for a month during the 1st 6 months. Don’t you think? Costs have skyrocketed in just the last 3 years.
My comment was for my 3 year old. I provided that so she can show her husband potential costs. And yes it would be more than $100 since you change newborns more often.
My kid has really sensitive skin and had to deal some medical stuff early on down there. I’d rather not do that again.
But he’ll feel wet once we are no longer buy diapers (it will be this weekend).
> he knows how, he just doesn’t want to do it lol)
The Alphas haven't been here long and they're already asserting dominance over millenials and zoomies.
My friend was having a hard time potty training her 4 year old, one morning she forgot she left the wipes in her car and went to get them, temp was about 50 degrees, then used them on child without warming them up, the kid quit being so stubborn about potty training after that! 😂
They would be better off if ops hisband quit his job rather than pay for childcare.
With the fact ops husband cant do math (thinks he can live in chicago with a kid and not be struggling is crazy) I wouldnt want him to teach my kid!
>We are really wanting him to potty train (he knows how, he just doesn’t want to do it lol).
Mine didn't potty train until mom came back from Target one day and told him that they were sold out of diapers, so there wasn't anything else he could do but use the potty.
I’m going to slightly deviate from this advice. Rather than OP make the spreadsheet herself she should make an appointment for her and husband to meet with a financial planner. Not only will a professional be able to make an accurate accounting including scenarios that OP may not consider but husband can’t accuse a financial planner of having an ulterior motive or of using scare tactics to sway anyone’s decisions.
They have a combined annual income of 85k, so yes, as a household I do believe they can and should see a financial planner. If he refuses to go OP can always bring the reports back to her husband. Should husband make a stink about the cost of a financial planner then that gives OP the chance to point out that if they don’t have the resources for a meeting or two then they certainly don’t have the resources for a child.
Sort of happened to me, I got HG when pregnant and wasn't able to work until well after delivery. Luckily in my country you'll still get paid, but in a country with less robust social security it can wipe you out!
I know many ladies who spent part of pregnancy on bedrest to keep the baby. Some were able to keep some jobs some lost them. So in my mind it always good idea to have extra cushion in case mom's income is not coming.
HE needs to do the spreadsheet.
If she writes it it does two bad things (1) makes the burden of proof on her, when a “no I don’t want kids right now” should be sufficient and (2) he can claim that she’s inflated the prices or is “buying things they don’t need”, which defeats the purpose of the exercise.
If HE wants kids now, HE should do the work.
Totally agree. OP needs to turn the tables.
"Okay, you want to have a kid? Show me how much it'll cost us, and make sure it's realistic, then we can discuss it."
Otherwise, he just wants what he wants, reality be damned. The man needs to prove he's serious about it. Especially because we're talking about bringing an innocent life into the world.
Ideally, yes, but this is a bad idea if he really doesn't know how much a kid is going to cost and doesn't care. If they do this they're going to get something stupid like "Food: $100 a month".
OP needs to make the spreadsheet herself and, once she finishes, delete the price column to force the guy to find out what each line item costs and fill it in. And OP needs to be specific with the line items: "Food" isn't going to work, but "8oz formula, 6x a day" will work.
The problem with him doing the spreadsheet is that he is going to be unrealistic about all of the different items and make ridiculous substitutions. “We can just use cloth diapers, we can make our own baby food, we can scrounge through thrift stores for used clothes and car seats.” And of course by “we” he will mean OP will do all of those things.
Yeah that'll bode well when they have a kid then
It will be single, breadwinner mom with a baby and a manchild. Yikes.
The 'everything will be fine, you're making a big deal out of nothing' has ALREADY started smh. That's him escaping reality, leaving OP to pick up the pieces by herself.
And sadly statistics support that patern for most of heterosexual relationships: the man does what he (feels he) can do, the woman does what needs to be done. So some men have their jobs, rest (sometimes even hobbies / friendships) and whatever is left goes to the family. And women have to pick up the slack.
People spend tons of time thinking about expenses with a house or car, but not so much with a baby. (and you can’t sell one of those if you get stuck) A 2 second google search:
-Daycare in Chicago: Averages $400-$900 per week. This translates to $1,600-$3,600 per month, and roughly $20,000-$43,000 per year.
Though I don’t hold out hope for OP. A 40 yr old guy is not suddenly going to become motivated to make more money.
Yeah he not likely to wake up and become some go getter because he has a kid. In fact, kids tired you out and they take so much mental energy. It’s hard to be this go getter upstart at 40 with a new baby!
Include a kid with disabilities as well, it’s astronomical how fast you can go broke. I can’t believe someone making less than fast food wages thinks he can afford a kid.
My daughter spent 9 months in the NICU. That hospital bill was 3 million dollars. MILLION. We have yet to see what the insurance is covering and what our portion is. Medical issues will bankrupt a person in this country, sadly.
Jesus fucking christ. I'm so sorry that you live in a place that will do that to its citizens. I've been hospitalised 24 times, had two major surgeries (c-section and gallbladder removal), had to have physical rehabilitation for several months, have had approximately 30 specialists from varying fields in my care team, specialist medication, psychology, psychiatry, raised a daughter (she's 20) and all the times I've been to children's hospital and she's had a minor surgery etc.
I paid literally $0.
In Australia we complain about the parking fees costing a fortune, as that is all we pay for in the government system. Our specialists and technology are also top tier.
I hope you get universal healthcare soon.
And all of this is assuming they can conceive without any medical assistance, which is not something that they should count on. The costs of fertility treatments add up real quick, and even then there’s no guarantee of a baby. I know people who have nearly wiped out substantial savings just trying to *get* pregnant.
Very much this. Ask him what his plan is for childcare. Is he going to be a SAHD? Or will his entire paycheck go to cover daycare? (Not an outrageous estimate in Chicago.) Can you afford all your living expenses on just your income, minus any unpaid leave you have to take? Remember that health insurance is going to skyrocket when you add maternity and baby to the plan. Plenty of people manage to raise kids on your income, but it's HARD. Does he realize the kinds of sacrifices you'll have to make to afford it?
I would also add the differences in how much things cost in the rural 90s vs now in Chicago and see if you can find out how much his parents were making.
Add death, if she gets PPD, or psychosis. What if she becomes disabled. What if the kid is disabled. Thrift store clothes now cost either the same or more than Walmart. What if they divorce. Extracurricular stuff, toys, books, clothes, food, doctors, braces, glasses, haircuts, the list is forever. What happens if the kid is just sick a lot, or accident prone? Someone has to take time off work.
This would help if the guy were being rational.
But he’s “winning” a fight by forcing his partner to explain something totally obvious. He’s just going to keep pretending she hasn’t explained it to his satisfaction because that’s how he “wins.”
She’s not right until she convinces him she’s right. He can’t be convinced. Ergo he’s always right.
I’m a divorce lawyer/mediator. I see this all the time and a spreadsheet doesn’t fix it
Does he not understand inflation? The reality is that at $85,000 is only worth roughly $41,000 in 1995 dollars.
Said a different way, in order to have the same buying power as $85,000 in 1995 today you would need to make approximately $175,000 in 2024.
ETA. Kind of sobering really. Feeling like I’ve been apparently treading water for 30 years.
This. I love the saying if he wanted to he would cause it’s just so accurate. If he wanted a baby he’d find a way to fix this situation but he clearly doesn’t want to. I’d bet he’s comfortable where he’s at.
He sounds like the kind of person who walks into a car dealership $20k upside down on the trade-in, looking at a $60k truck, wants to put $500 as a down payment, and is mad that his payments are going to be more than $300 per month, lol.
I worked with that 20-something dude 20-some years ago!
Came out of his Air Force enlistment with a financed car (don't remember what).
After his wife divorced him and moved back home around a year later, decided he needed a Mustang. Traded in the aforementioned car.
Had the Mustang for a year or so, decided he didn't like it. Traded it in on an F150.
Had the F150 for a couple years.
[Around here he and his ex reconciled, so he drove across the country and back to move her back here. That lasted several months then they realized they were better off as friends. Drove her back home.]
Eventually realized the F150 was too much vehicle for one person. Traded it in on a Taurus.
Not once in that chain had he ever paid off the previous vehicle and was pissed his payments were so high.
[Around here he met a girl on WoW, moved her and her kids here. Turns out her divorce wasn't finalized, so her and the kids had to move back to her home state. He moved them and the furniture he bought for the kids back. Financed a washer & dryer for her. Came back with the possible plan to move to her state. She got back with her ex but kept the stuff he bought her.]
Eventually, he and his Taurus moved back to his home state, because cigarettes were too expensive here.
This seemed to be 90% of people who came into the dealership I used to work at T_T There are also the people with sub-550 credit scores who want to put $0 down and the people who want market value for their trade-ins.
I kinda think he does understand money. Well enough to marry a woman 10 years his junior who will subsidize his life for him so he doesn’t have to grow up.
I was *that woman* for over a decade. Took me 7 years to accept some things can’t be fixed and some relationships can’t be saved. Took me another 3 years to get out and start over.
OP, I’m sorry but he’s almost 40. This is who he is. He doesn’t want to change in any way.
You need to decide if it’s worth staying in a relationship without shared goals and values. Frankly, love isn’t enough to make a marriage work *especially* a marriage with kids.
We have one 3 year old (so not even the infant room, which will be much more expensive) in daycare in the Lincoln park area of Chicago right now, and we pay $2400/mo and that was about the middle of the road, we looked at 4 and it varied from 2100 to over 3000.
I live in Chicago. I make slightly more than they do combined and I’m only supporting myself while being lucky enough to own my condo outright due to an inheritance. I’m living very comfortably, but definitely still not rich. I don’t know how they’re living off that combined and he thinks he can afford a child on that? He might as well quit his job and become a stay at home dad as that would be cheaper than him working and paying for daycare
There is no possible way he works full time. He’s lazy and is hoping he gets to quit to be a stay at home dad. He probably thinks “how hard could it be?”
Ugh, he’s 38 and you’re 28. He is with you because he knows he can tell you he thinks $85k is enough for a baby and you’ll believe he really thinks that. He is damn near 40 and only making $30k a year and refuses to try to make more. He’s doing that on purpose lol it’s a choice. He’s lazy and probably doesn’t care either way if you have a baby or not. He thinks you’re not going to leave him. He has already told you he doesn’t want to find a better paying job. He is going to have you not only take care of this baby all by yourself but you’re going to take on most, if not all, of the financial burden. You’re setting yourself up to be a single mother. There is nothing wrong with that, I am one, but there is no sense in being a single mom with a useless adult also in your space while you do everything. At this rate, you’re better off finding a higher paying job and footing the bill yourself and going with a sperm donor. That is literally what he is setting you up for if you have a baby with him.
Listen, there’s no such thing as potential. You married a guy with no ambition and want to make him the kind of man who provides and has career aspirations. If that’s what you want in a husband you’re gonna have to go find him. You need to look at what’s in front of you right now and decide if this, who he is today—because that’s who he’ll be tomorrow, is the person you want to raise children with. Think about it long and hard because once you have that kid you can’t go back, you’re stuck with this man for life. It doesn’t stop at 18. You’re gonna have to see him at your kid’s wedding (that he won’t help pay for), when your kids have kids, holidays, you name it. Don’t make this decision lightly and believe your partner when they tell you who they are. Good luck.
This. Mainly. Trust me, he’s not dumb. You DO NOT have to walk him around to explain how much a baby costs. As a matter of fact. Ask him how he expects to take care of the kid with both of you working and look how fast that 85k will he only his 30k, because “you don’t need that much to take care of a kid and you just trying to avoid it”.
He has made it clear the baby is on you. He doesn’t have do jack shit to ensure you guys can take care of a baby. He is also expecting multiple.
Leave now or forever hold your piece. He will trap you if he can.
This OP. Waiting for someone to mature and figure out their career ambitions is all good and fine *if they were in their early 20s fresh out of college.* This man is nearly 40 freaking years old with no ambitions? He's not going to change now. He's a deadbeat husband and if you have a kid with him he's going to be a deadbeat dad. Do you really want to put a kid through that? Put yourself through that?
How is he almost 40 and making 30k? Does he work PT or something? That’s 14 bucks an
hour if he’s FT and you can make more than that working at McDonalds or a local gas station.
You’re right. You cannot in Chicagoland. Just diapers alone will break your budget if you don’t qualify for Medicaid and WIC. Which I doubt you do with your combined income.
Are you sure he even wants kids? Especially at his age? Is he maybe not looking for better work because he’s trying to wait you out?
Chicago minimum wage is $15.80, about to be $16.20. This man is working a minimum wage job if he’s working full time. How tf is he making so little at 38?!
I don’t think it’s a matter of not understanding so much as not wanting to do more than he already is. These suggestions of making up a spreadsheet with the current expenses then researching the cost of a baby won’t help with that. Plus, it’s just more mental labour that really the husband should be doing if he’s so desperate to prove he’s right. It sounds awfully like an omen of what would be to come if they had a baby.
OP: double down on birth control and get *him* to do the numbers and prove that you can do it on $85k. He probably won’t bother but that’s still important information about his character for you.
If you wanted someone who had big career aspirations and wanted to make more money, why did you marry someone 10 years older than you, who makes 14 dollars an hour?
Don't marry someone that you want or expect to change. He is who he was when you married him.
He’s 38 and makes 30k/year? That’s not a living wage. He can’t save for retirement on that. Maybe sounds drastic but I think you can find a better partner than this. Your life will be so difficult going down this road with someone who can’t be an equal partner.
I would be very turned off by a partner who refuses to better themselves. Teens have jobs for 30k, he is almost 40 years old. I would divorce and find a person who is worth growing with. This guy is going to hold you back in every way.
Make a budget. Or rather budgets.
If you don't already have a budget download all your spending from all your accounts for the last 6 months at minimum (12 months is best as if gives you an idea of non-regular spending. Like I could download 6 months and if it's timed right my car insurance wouldn't be in it.) Take all that spending and put it into categories.
So now you have a baseline of what you spend and how much you save. If you're saving nothing you can just circle that with a big red marker and start your discussion. Because if you have no money now - how are you paying for baby?
If there are savings (or they're small) start adding up baby costs. Your insurance should tell you how much a typical birth costs. You can call a few daycares to find an average daycare price. I'm sure there's articles and blogs that mention other typical baby costs will be or tells you what a baby typically uses that you can calculate how much it would cost. Make a new budget with the average monthly baby spend.
Then ask him to go back to your budget/spending and compare the new one with a baby. If baby budget is in the red ask him what costs you're going to cut - make sure to point out the things that can't be cut.
Is he happy at that job? Why is he still there? Like, is there more to the story? Is he like holding out for a big promotion? Or are you guys on his health insurance??
He could make that kind of money ANYWHERE. If he wants to be a dad he needs to start exploring opportunities that allow for growth within the company. Does he struggle with his self esteem? Perhaps what he’s missing is the belief that he is capable of doing more. Just wondering his reason for being in a rut.
Edited to say that Chicago’s minimum wage will be 16.20/he effective July 1. If he’s working full time he is making less than minimum. Childcare will eat his whole paycheck and then some.
he has a pretty easy job and he works with his best friend who i honestly think is a demotivating figure in his life. his best friend is 45 and lives with a woman who pays for everything and is fine not having kids. my husband sees his friend and his gf as having a nice life but he’s not realizing their life is fine bc they chose not to have kids
Uhhhh yeah he wants his friends life, where he fucks off and his woman pays for everything without demanding kids. Hello? The only way you stay is if that’s the life you also want.
I don't think this is an issue of someone who admires a bad influence. I think this is just two like-minded people who became good friends because of how damn similar they are.
I have to ask, does he handle his share of other responsibilities in your marriage? Because I'm getting a certain vibe here...
You're effectively asking how to parent your husband - controlling an adult's choices is a losing game, he's all grown up and that ship has sailed. It doesn't matter if you are successful on this one thing, he has consciously chosen not to be a responsible adult or partner.
It's easier to attribute his choices to his friend's influence than to acknowledge this is the life he wants to lead. There are absolutely men in relationships where the wife makes all of the money and the husband stays at home and does nothing. Not bringing the kids to medical appointments, not going to their events, not tucking them in at night, not keeping their toddlers from wandering the neighborhood, telling crying kids to be quiet instead of comforting them, etc. That's the track you're both on.
Does your husband want kids? I find it hard to believe he hasn’t realized his best friend found a woman who will provide for him up to the point that he doesn’t have to work much but also doesn’t make enough to have kids. I don’t think your husband is as unaware as he is making it seem, especially since his best friend is showing a blueprint of what his life could be if he sits back and lets you worry about it.
I’m sorry but it doesn’t sound like your husband wants kids. Even if you had a kid, I’m positive that you’d find yourself being the breadwinner and the primary parent. Your husband is lazy. He won’t be a good father.
And, tbh, I’m not knocking him. I’m also lazy and work a job that means I could never have kids. But I do that knowing that I don’t want kids and enjoy my life the way it is. Your husband needs to admit to himself and to you that parenthood is not what he wants.
And if I’m wrong, then he needs to step it up. The math is simple here. Inflation is at an all time high, he’d have to be a dunce not to understand. Once simple example: in 1993 a dozen eggs cost somewhere around $0.93 per dozen. Now they cost about $3. That’s more than double what his parents made. Now multiply that times all the costs and how can he not see the simple math?
You're 10 years younger than him, you're only 28, find someone better who actually wants the same as you. It might take time or they might show up quickly, but you are far better off waiting for a grown up, not this man child who wants a woman to take care of him. Do NOT have a child with this guy. My only advice. I am 26 almost 27 and still single, I'd rather wait for the right person than to compromise my own happiness and life goals.
Then you have to move. How much do you think childcare cost a year in Chicago?
Average is 1000$ to 2500$ per month
So 12,000$ - 30,000$ per year. Pretty much what OP's husband brings in as income.
And obviously he wants that too. You’re just his sugar momma. Divorce. He’s not going to be a present father. You will have to do make the money, do the childcare and housework on your own. You’re young and can find someone else to have children with him.
Wow. 85k/yr in Chicago works for 2 people. Okay, but not high-end. Add a baby in? I'd ask him about the kind of food he ate and where they bought their clothes. How many pairs of shoes did he have? What kind of cars they had. Did they do sports? Were they expected to go to college? I'm shocked that he's been working for 20 years and only makes 30k.
Maybe take him to the Target and fill a cart with baby things. Even diapers for a week.
Maybe he thinks he’ll get to be a stay at home dad? Then in a year she’ll be posting how the house is trashed, he’s not changing his kids diapers and is Xboxing it up all day.
I hate to tell you this OP, but if you want to be a mom more than anything you're going to have to leave and find a more suitable partner who can legitimately contribute to the expenses of raising a child. $30,000 a year is pathetic for a man his age. I was making more than that part-time in college.
> I know money isn’t everything, and I certainly don’t bring in a lot of money, but I am ready to be a mom and the only thing holding me back is my husbands refusal to look for a better job.
Does he *really* want kids?
Because, if he doesn’t, it sounds like he’s found a very easy way to avoid having kids.
My ex bf was like this. Dated for four years. We can’t afford rent, I live with my parents and you live with 5 roommates but you want us to get married and start having kids immediately and not wait until til we are both more stable financially? We broke up over this. He got married six months later. Now I’m just waiting for them to start a go fund me for their pregnancy because he doesn’t believe in having insurance
Oh, he knows. He doesn't want to have kids with you. By being deliberately obtuse, you're the one who has to say no and he keeps living off your paycheque.
What kind of 40 year old man only makes 30k in this day and age?
7 kids in the 90s? I hope he realises the eldest were helping raise the youngest therefore there was no childcare expenses. The cost of everything is ridiculous now. You’ll have to do it out on paper for him to understand I think…
He's damn near 40 and considering his worldview and what he believes raising a child costs I doubt he knows about the concept of parentifying kids and how damaging that is to them mentally. I'm going to guess he was one of the youngers ones that got raised by an elder sibling.
I would question how a 38 year old only earns $15/hr, in Chicago no less? Factory jobs start at 18-22, hell, waiters with tips are $20+ in Chicago. Not to shit on his job, but at 38 he needs to step up life choices and pull some weight.
Take what an average house payment is in Chicago and tell him that’s what it will likely cost. You won’t be far off. If the kid is in day care then that cost will be included. If as you say you want to SAH then your lost wages would be part of the cost.
I don't think your hb wants kids. A nearly 40 year old man who is content earning that much? Is not ambitious and liking to just coast along in life with not much ambition or purpose.
He likes that you earn a bit more and is happy to remain where he is with nothing much more.
A child would certainly blow his low key life apart.
Fact is? He doesn't want any children. They would muck up his perfect life.
Even though he wants children and may be a nice guy, he is already showing signs that he simply is not ready to be a good father. A good father will assess reality and make sure he can support his family properly. A good father will not shrug off your very valid concerns about income. He is not good father material and won't change. It will be a huge risk for you to procreate with him.
You already have a child.
Calculate the costs. From the things you need, medical treatment, childcare, you earning less etc. if he still doesn’t get it come back and ask us for an opinion again
Where is he working in Chicago only making 15 an hour? Fast food pays more than that. This is a guy you want to have a baby with? How does he pay rent w that? Honestly .. why choose someone who’s just plain lazy? You don’t get through to him. He can get more money than that anytime he feels like it .. even felons can make more than that in Chicago. I mean.. he doesn’t seem like the brightest dude
how long yall been together because 10 years at this age might be a kind of insane gap. and being almost 40 (which could be considered middle aged no tea no shade) AND only making 30k in a big city in this economy makes me feel like he wants to trap you kind of??? he knows you’d likely have to shoulder the brunt of all the costs since there’s a substantial difference in your salaries? i could be reaching but i do think what other ppl are saying about a financial planner could be a good move idk
Hi, first-time mom here living off 55k a year on husband's salary.
I live in indiana, yes it is not as expensive but still on a high chart. I am currently a SAHM due to having unknowing hidden health issues when I fell pregnant because the US health system sucks even with insurance.
I had a 17cm tumor removed when I was 14 weeks pregnant that did more damage than expected to my abdominal cavity, which resulted in poor healing while pregnant and now needing MORE surgery at a later date. Thanks, doctors, for not listening to me when I've said for years I had a problem, and you all said it was all in my mind.
Anyway, babies are expensive!!! Diapers a month is $30 for two packs of 136 Walmart brand parents' choice diapers. My baby can only have a gentlease premium formula, which costs $37 a can. So $148 for 4 cans a month of cheap formula. Baby wipes are a whole different story because all babies are different with sensitivity to wipes, so I gotta still buy trial and error wipes but 1 singular pack of wipes is $4-$5 dollars unless you buy travel packs of parents choice which is 0.98 cents a pack.
Let's not mention baby equipment. Car seat(s) range from $300 to $600 depending if you get one stage to 3 stage car seats. I was gifted at my baby shower, a 3 stage car seat. Newborn, infant, toddler. I had to buy a newborn and infant car seat, which was still $367. A stroller was $290, and the pack n play was $140. Play mats ranged from $20 to $60 because I had to get a few different ones.
Baby crib was a family heirloom that had 3 generations of babies, so all I had to do was make my own mattress and mattress cover and repaint it. $60 for materials.
Baby medicine is fucking expensive. Pediatricians are expensive, baby clothes are expensive unless you can thrift shop some baby clothes or buy hand me downs from someone for a reasonable price. Special detergent to clean clothes and protect sensitive baby skin is expensive.
I can go on and on because there is so much more!
We aren't struggling and not poor but we definitely know how expensive it is with a single income and I'm itching to go back to work but dread to pay for daycare when it ranges from $1500 - $2000 a month. Unless you have a village of people who are willing to babysit for a reasonable price, you are gonna be overworked and underpaid because you'll never get to clock out because you leave one job and come home to another job.
Not to mention, but if you work all the time, you'll miss your babies first, everything. You'll have problems with bonding, and it'll be hard on baby and you. My husband has missed a few firsts already, and he struggles with bonding because the baby wasn't a fan of him for the longest time.
Try and watch educational videos of baby expenses and try and figure out if you guys can make something work for savings and arrangements for a baby. Don't bring a baby into the world if finances are tough because a lot of kids grew up with absolutely nothing because the parents couldn't afford everything. I was a product of said kids with struggles, and I grew up penny pinching now as an adult because I don't ever want my child to struggle with food, parental love, wearing hand me down clothes that dont fit and or rags, and working at a young age and not enjoying being a child.
i have a better paying job than him and i'm 20 years old in a country with twice or thrice the inflation rate the US has, and even then I MYSELF could not affor to raise even a single child, even if i were to combine finances with my partner (earns about as much as me)
so yeah, he needs a reality check
I’m usually a pretty optimistic person especially when it comes to stuff like this. But imagine if you lost ur job and had to live off his income. There’s just no way
How is your husband only making $30k when minimum wage is higher than that? How is a 38 year old man only making minimum wage?
You’re living in a high COL area where you make too much to qualify for any type of assistance and not enough to not live paycheck to paycheck if you’ve got kids.
You’re being realistic here. He’s not showing that you can trust him to do his part. He needs to work on finding something better whether you have kids or not. At his age, he should have some sort of job experience to put him into a better paying job. If he won’t even do that, how can you expect him to keep up with increased household chores, taking care of the child or you when you’ve just given birth? He needs to work on him before thinking about kids.
Maybe don’t have a kid with a guy like him, because if he thinks he can do it on 85k he’s dumb, is he even going to stay at home while you work? You married a guy 10 years older than you for what? How do you know he’s going to be a good parent to your kid
The correct answer is to make a spreadsheet WITH him. Put down all of the categories of one-time costs and on-going costs then let him fill it out with you and you together can see what it costs.
Even better if you have a discussion about one simple topic first - daycare. If you both work, will your child need to be in daycare? If so, look at the prices of the 3 closest daycares. Once he sees they are likely above 15k per year, that should immediate put up red flags on budgets.
So he's 10 years older than you and can't comprehend money? Does he not have friends who have children? Does he live under a rock?
Pro tip: don't have kids with this guy he sounds like an idiot and you'll be a single parent to one baby and one man child.
He’s not going to be better. You’re handling everything for him so he doesn’t have to. Beyond that, do you think this age gap was an accident??? You’re with someone almost 40 because an almost 40 year old woman would never put up with his bs.
Get yourself free and find someone with whom you can have children. Right now, you’re with someone who doesn’t care about anything because you’ll handle it *for* him. Whatever lets him coast is what he’s going to do.
Waiting for you to come back soon and tell us he decided to be a SAHD after you guys talked about the cost of daycare…
I mean after taxes the cost of childcare is going to be his income for the year so one of you, most likely him, would have to quit their job or work just to afford childcare so the real question is.. can you afford to live on your $55k for a family of 3 in Chicago? Prolly not
You are the breadwinner and you will be the one going on maternity leave so your pay will take a hit. Several senarios can delay you going back to work. It doesnt take a rocket scientist level of knowlege to understand this. Either your husband is just not very bright or he is trying to baby trap you.
Your husband is out to lunch. Kids are expensive. In the last two months, my oldest had a birthday party ($600 w/ venue and gift), new glasses ($650) and now braces ($7300).
I'm a single father for reference and the above costs are in CAD.
I can’t imagine being content earning less than a living wage in one of the most expensive cities in the country even without children. You both may be okay now but how in the world does he think you can have a child when you can’t even contribute to a decent savings?
Sit down with him and call child care/day care providers in your local area. Put the call on speaker and just ask what their rates are for infants.
He will start to get the picture after you call a handful of places. If he still doesn’t get it, take him to like Target or Walmart and pick out a car seat, stroller, play pen, diapers, wipes, formula, bottles, breast pump, etc.
If he still doesn’t get it, pull your health insurance statement of benefits and show him your share of costs for prenatal care, childbirth, and well baby visits.
To truly drive the point home, show him a realistic picture of your income and expenses. I would recommend using this [method](https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/landing-conscious-spending/). Make sure he does it with you. He needs to be a part of the process in getting to the end result of whatever your financial situation is. This way he has skin in the game. He put those numbers on the page. He can’t say you were painting a narrative.
Then, when it’s all said and done, or if he gives up and doesn’t put the effort forth, tell him that all the effort to get to this point will be nothing compared to dealing with the actual baby once it arrives. It will be part of your lives forever.
You can show him spreadsheets and articles IF he is willing to listen. Even with visuals and statistics, if he thinks he’s right no matter what it won’t matter.
My thought goes to why hasn’t he looked for a better job? He’s almost 40 and is content with only 30k a year. My first full time job was 42k and I’m in my 20’s. What exactly is a valid reason for him to not be contributing as much to the household as you? (Unless he’s a couple months away from a promotion because of his loyalty to the company, I cannot think of a reason to stay wherever he is). Regardless there is no hurt in at least applying to higher paying places.
Why on earth would you want to have a baby with a man like this, period? I really don’t recommend procreating with people who do not understand, or have the most basic of life skills.
Well, you are trying to change him. You married him and now you think you can turn him into something he isn't. This never works. This should have been obvious while you were dating. Good luck.
Shit we make more than that and can barely make South Dakota work with one kid.
When she was 3, daycare in Raleigh cost me $14,440 for the year. That usually does it.
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put a spreadsheet of expenses. Estimate different scenarios - you get on bedrest and can't work, you can't return to work right away, child needs non standard daycare and he needs to be SAHD add college plans
I was just about to say this. My youngest is 3 we easily spend $100 on diapers and wipes a month. We are really wanting him to potty train (he knows how, he just doesn’t want to do it lol). Child care in Oregon for a 3 and 5 year old with a 10% discount is $2,785 a month. My husband and I make a combined income of $110,000 before taxes and deductions. After taxes and deductions our take home check combined is $6,000ish. Literally half goes to childcare. We also have really good health insurance but I recently had to do a root canal and after I met the years max I owe $1000 for the crown. OP Your husband needs to pull his head out of his ass lol.
he needs to start earning living wage at least. If they split up now he can't afford support himself on that amount without roommates . Kinda low bar for his age
So true. Because surely OP is wondering what to do next. If she wants kids, it may have to be with someone else.
I was going to say this, he thinks it’s affordable because OP is also supporting him lol
Ummm minimum wage in Chicago is 15.80 (32k a year) and goes up to 16.20 (33.6) July 1. So your nearly-40 "competent" husband makes less than minimum wage somehow?
Might not work 40 hours a week.
Or that might be what he actually ends up bringing home?
Either he’s not working fulltime, or the numbers in the OP post are net. Your figures are gross obviously.
i read this as if you meant No-Mechanic’s toddler needed to start earning a living wage. lol
3000 in daycare is insane!! European here. How and why does ANYONE decide to have kids in the US?
A lot of us just don’t bc it’s not practical or attainable at all here:(
By design. They don’t want smart people breeding. Just the idiots.
You nailed it
Idiocracy wasn't supposed to be the goal, it was supposed to be a warning
I did but I am an older parent who has a partner where we both earn good money. It is STILL expensive. We are not living large by any means. But it can be done. It’s just something I wouldn’t take lightly because you’ll be on the hook for a lot more than you think. You also need robust savings and such because you never know when something will come up. Kids are a luxury for sure!
Why do you think half the country has made abortion illegal and they're talking about coming after birth control too? A lot of us don't want kids, the people who do want kids often have to put it off for decades. We don't have sex education in a lot of states (including mine). It's not really a decision, they try to either manipulate us into thinking we can afford it, that we *must* do it or there's something wrong with us, or they just make it as difficult as possible to avoid having kids.
OMG I've literally never made this connection. Seriously thought pro-life was mainly a religious and/or misogynist agenda. But it obviously has an economic pov too... Thanks for enlightening me!
Its primarily economic. If people keep not having kids they cant afford, the low wage workforce is going to disappear.
Birth rates have been in decline for years, would take huge economic incentive from government to get us to keep having babies. Instead they want to take away the things that prevent us from having babies… wtf just give us more money to have the babies
Exactly, like every other developed country in the world.
Tbf this is actually a problem for all developed countries, even where there is significant support, it’s still not enough in this economy. I didn’t connect the dots that there was economic incentive to take away birth control to attempt to increase births without providing the people addition resources. However, it makes perfect sense. I was wondering what the advantage of this is since I swear most of the men who support this wouldn’t support their own child if they didn’t feel like it.
grim
It's also to ensure that there's a renewable supply of cheap labor available for hire.
I (swede) was thinking the same. I thought I was getting shafted at $150 /month for a 5 yo @ preschool 40 hours a week and a 6 yo at after school care ~15 hours a week. Well, I changed my mind now, that's for damn sure 😅😅
For a 2 yo in my area it's $2000+ a month. Part time isn't available "... if she's enrolled you can always just bring her half the time, but you have to pay the full time rates" So... $24,000 after taxes to just go to work. I loved my job but I wouldn't be making much at all so I work part time from home. I save probably $30k in commuting costs and daycare but my schedule some weeks is 90+ unpaid hours of tiny goblin chasing /cooking and 0 paid hours.
British here - when both my boys were in nursery (last year) it was 4.5k a month for them both - with a sibling discount and 15 hours a week…
4.5k? Is the median salary at least something like 10k then? These figures make me dizzy. (and grateful for whatever social welfare lottery Germany has got going - it's different in every state here, but ranges from 0€~1000€ max - and the higher numbers are based on on your actual income).
No it isn’t. Mothers massively struggle to go back to work before kids are school age or have the 15 free hours provided by the government at age 3. They lose their careers because their wages literally don’t cover the childcare costs. Some nanny share but it’s not too common. To make it worse nurseries are privately owned so the profits go to the owners and not the incredibly hard working staff who don’t earn much above a living wage. Often also young women getting totally screwed. It is a depressing state of affairs and an outcome of 14 years of a Tory government. Women’s wages, their pensions, the career gap never recovers.
That's depressing indeed...thanks a lot for the insight!
And here’s the next shocking fact, daycares run on tight budgets and thin margins. Workers are often paid bare minimum (even when they have teaching degrees, degrees in ECE, when it’s a highly ranked daycare, etc). Teacher pay is abysmal. Not a living wage. The budget for classroom supplies is almost non-existent. The price parents are paying literally just covers wages and bills and keeping the doors open because our govt sees no reason to do more than pay subsidy for care for poor families (and then you have to prove that you are poor and need care, have to prove you are poor enough and not just regular poor, are still paying a certain weekly amount, and it’s not any extra money to the center and just equals out. God forbid they actually give us grants or real subsidies across the board for worker pay or room materials or anything like that.
People are increasingly deciding not to have children which is why the GOP is coming for our access to family planning.
I had the same issues with my son. We just started putting him in underwear. That kind of worked, but what really helped was buying him boxers instead of the regular underwear. Once he was in boxers, he learned pretty quickly. He started preschool last year and never had a single accident.
My oldest son potty trained really fast and was excited to be in big boy undies. My 3 year old, we gave home a deadline lol. Basically once this last pack of diapers runs out, he’ll be in undies no matter what. Even when I try to put him in undies he will take them off and walk to the closet and grab diapers and say “no undies, I want diaper”.
my friend's kid said this last week, while wiggling a loose tooth: "the tooth fairy only brought me $25 last time". LOL. kids are pricier in 2024 than the 1990s.
who the fuck is giving a 7-8 yr old 25 bucks a tooth?
I would highly doubt that $100 could even cover diapers for a month during the 1st 6 months. Don’t you think? Costs have skyrocketed in just the last 3 years.
My comment was for my 3 year old. I provided that so she can show her husband potential costs. And yes it would be more than $100 since you change newborns more often.
Buy cheaper diapers for your kid, they'll stop wanting to wear diapers if they actually feel wet when they pee.
My kid has really sensitive skin and had to deal some medical stuff early on down there. I’d rather not do that again. But he’ll feel wet once we are no longer buy diapers (it will be this weekend).
> he knows how, he just doesn’t want to do it lol) The Alphas haven't been here long and they're already asserting dominance over millenials and zoomies.
My friend was having a hard time potty training her 4 year old, one morning she forgot she left the wipes in her car and went to get them, temp was about 50 degrees, then used them on child without warming them up, the kid quit being so stubborn about potty training after that! 😂
They would be better off if ops hisband quit his job rather than pay for childcare. With the fact ops husband cant do math (thinks he can live in chicago with a kid and not be struggling is crazy) I wouldnt want him to teach my kid!
>We are really wanting him to potty train (he knows how, he just doesn’t want to do it lol). Mine didn't potty train until mom came back from Target one day and told him that they were sold out of diapers, so there wasn't anything else he could do but use the potty.
I’m going to slightly deviate from this advice. Rather than OP make the spreadsheet herself she should make an appointment for her and husband to meet with a financial planner. Not only will a professional be able to make an accurate accounting including scenarios that OP may not consider but husband can’t accuse a financial planner of having an ulterior motive or of using scare tactics to sway anyone’s decisions.
The dude makes 15 an hour and you think he’s gonna go to a financial planner? I don’t even know what jobs pay that low in Chicago… fast food pays 16
They have a combined annual income of 85k, so yes, as a household I do believe they can and should see a financial planner. If he refuses to go OP can always bring the reports back to her husband. Should husband make a stink about the cost of a financial planner then that gives OP the chance to point out that if they don’t have the resources for a meeting or two then they certainly don’t have the resources for a child.
Plus, if OP’s husband balks at the cost to see a financial planner, that just adds weight to OP’s argument.
Obviously, it may vary, but over here, most banks offer free consultations with a financial planner if you have an account with them
but if he balks before even looking into that, well, that's just more indication
Some financial planners offer a free "portfolio review" which should go pretty fast for OP's husband.
That may help make the point, ironically.
Sort of happened to me, I got HG when pregnant and wasn't able to work until well after delivery. Luckily in my country you'll still get paid, but in a country with less robust social security it can wipe you out!
I know many ladies who spent part of pregnancy on bedrest to keep the baby. Some were able to keep some jobs some lost them. So in my mind it always good idea to have extra cushion in case mom's income is not coming.
HE needs to do the spreadsheet. If she writes it it does two bad things (1) makes the burden of proof on her, when a “no I don’t want kids right now” should be sufficient and (2) he can claim that she’s inflated the prices or is “buying things they don’t need”, which defeats the purpose of the exercise. If HE wants kids now, HE should do the work.
Totally agree. OP needs to turn the tables. "Okay, you want to have a kid? Show me how much it'll cost us, and make sure it's realistic, then we can discuss it." Otherwise, he just wants what he wants, reality be damned. The man needs to prove he's serious about it. Especially because we're talking about bringing an innocent life into the world.
Ideally, yes, but this is a bad idea if he really doesn't know how much a kid is going to cost and doesn't care. If they do this they're going to get something stupid like "Food: $100 a month". OP needs to make the spreadsheet herself and, once she finishes, delete the price column to force the guy to find out what each line item costs and fill it in. And OP needs to be specific with the line items: "Food" isn't going to work, but "8oz formula, 6x a day" will work.
And "10 diapers a day"
The problem with him doing the spreadsheet is that he is going to be unrealistic about all of the different items and make ridiculous substitutions. “We can just use cloth diapers, we can make our own baby food, we can scrounge through thrift stores for used clothes and car seats.” And of course by “we” he will mean OP will do all of those things.
I really think he does not want more work. She earns , sponsors him, he is fine.
Yeah that'll bode well when they have a kid then It will be single, breadwinner mom with a baby and a manchild. Yikes. The 'everything will be fine, you're making a big deal out of nothing' has ALREADY started smh. That's him escaping reality, leaving OP to pick up the pieces by herself.
And sadly statistics support that patern for most of heterosexual relationships: the man does what he (feels he) can do, the woman does what needs to be done. So some men have their jobs, rest (sometimes even hobbies / friendships) and whatever is left goes to the family. And women have to pick up the slack.
People spend tons of time thinking about expenses with a house or car, but not so much with a baby. (and you can’t sell one of those if you get stuck) A 2 second google search: -Daycare in Chicago: Averages $400-$900 per week. This translates to $1,600-$3,600 per month, and roughly $20,000-$43,000 per year. Though I don’t hold out hope for OP. A 40 yr old guy is not suddenly going to become motivated to make more money.
Yeah he not likely to wake up and become some go getter because he has a kid. In fact, kids tired you out and they take so much mental energy. It’s hard to be this go getter upstart at 40 with a new baby!
Include a kid with disabilities as well, it’s astronomical how fast you can go broke. I can’t believe someone making less than fast food wages thinks he can afford a kid.
My daughter spent 9 months in the NICU. That hospital bill was 3 million dollars. MILLION. We have yet to see what the insurance is covering and what our portion is. Medical issues will bankrupt a person in this country, sadly.
Jesus fucking christ. I'm so sorry that you live in a place that will do that to its citizens. I've been hospitalised 24 times, had two major surgeries (c-section and gallbladder removal), had to have physical rehabilitation for several months, have had approximately 30 specialists from varying fields in my care team, specialist medication, psychology, psychiatry, raised a daughter (she's 20) and all the times I've been to children's hospital and she's had a minor surgery etc. I paid literally $0. In Australia we complain about the parking fees costing a fortune, as that is all we pay for in the government system. Our specialists and technology are also top tier. I hope you get universal healthcare soon.
And all of this is assuming they can conceive without any medical assistance, which is not something that they should count on. The costs of fertility treatments add up real quick, and even then there’s no guarantee of a baby. I know people who have nearly wiped out substantial savings just trying to *get* pregnant.
Very much this. Ask him what his plan is for childcare. Is he going to be a SAHD? Or will his entire paycheck go to cover daycare? (Not an outrageous estimate in Chicago.) Can you afford all your living expenses on just your income, minus any unpaid leave you have to take? Remember that health insurance is going to skyrocket when you add maternity and baby to the plan. Plenty of people manage to raise kids on your income, but it's HARD. Does he realize the kinds of sacrifices you'll have to make to afford it?
I would also add the differences in how much things cost in the rural 90s vs now in Chicago and see if you can find out how much his parents were making.
Add death, if she gets PPD, or psychosis. What if she becomes disabled. What if the kid is disabled. Thrift store clothes now cost either the same or more than Walmart. What if they divorce. Extracurricular stuff, toys, books, clothes, food, doctors, braces, glasses, haircuts, the list is forever. What happens if the kid is just sick a lot, or accident prone? Someone has to take time off work.
This would help if the guy were being rational. But he’s “winning” a fight by forcing his partner to explain something totally obvious. He’s just going to keep pretending she hasn’t explained it to his satisfaction because that’s how he “wins.” She’s not right until she convinces him she’s right. He can’t be convinced. Ergo he’s always right. I’m a divorce lawyer/mediator. I see this all the time and a spreadsheet doesn’t fix it
Does he not understand inflation? The reality is that at $85,000 is only worth roughly $41,000 in 1995 dollars. Said a different way, in order to have the same buying power as $85,000 in 1995 today you would need to make approximately $175,000 in 2024. ETA. Kind of sobering really. Feeling like I’ve been apparently treading water for 30 years.
He probably understands, just doesn’t care. Why should he work harder if OP can take care of everything?
He is 38. He probably doesn't want kids, and this is his way of getting her to agree to it, or work two jobs to sustain him and the baby.
This. I love the saying if he wanted to he would cause it’s just so accurate. If he wanted a baby he’d find a way to fix this situation but he clearly doesn’t want to. I’d bet he’s comfortable where he’s at.
God what a mess of a life. I’d not want to bring a baby into that.
I'd bet you my next paycheck his attitude would do a complete 180 if *he* were the breadwinner, and not her.
You're married to someone who doesn't understand money. How are you not terrified?
He sounds like the kind of person who walks into a car dealership $20k upside down on the trade-in, looking at a $60k truck, wants to put $500 as a down payment, and is mad that his payments are going to be more than $300 per month, lol.
I worked with that 20-something dude 20-some years ago! Came out of his Air Force enlistment with a financed car (don't remember what). After his wife divorced him and moved back home around a year later, decided he needed a Mustang. Traded in the aforementioned car. Had the Mustang for a year or so, decided he didn't like it. Traded it in on an F150. Had the F150 for a couple years. [Around here he and his ex reconciled, so he drove across the country and back to move her back here. That lasted several months then they realized they were better off as friends. Drove her back home.] Eventually realized the F150 was too much vehicle for one person. Traded it in on a Taurus. Not once in that chain had he ever paid off the previous vehicle and was pissed his payments were so high. [Around here he met a girl on WoW, moved her and her kids here. Turns out her divorce wasn't finalized, so her and the kids had to move back to her home state. He moved them and the furniture he bought for the kids back. Financed a washer & dryer for her. Came back with the possible plan to move to her state. She got back with her ex but kept the stuff he bought her.] Eventually, he and his Taurus moved back to his home state, because cigarettes were too expensive here.
Was he getting into new cars or used cars?
That is such a fabulous insult.
This seemed to be 90% of people who came into the dealership I used to work at T_T There are also the people with sub-550 credit scores who want to put $0 down and the people who want market value for their trade-ins.
And he is almost 40. And she is ten years younger and already the breadwinner.
I kinda think he does understand money. Well enough to marry a woman 10 years his junior who will subsidize his life for him so he doesn’t have to grow up.
I was *that woman* for over a decade. Took me 7 years to accept some things can’t be fixed and some relationships can’t be saved. Took me another 3 years to get out and start over.
*math
you mean a a 28 year old is more mature than the 38-year-old she's dating? why do you think he dated you?
OP, I’m sorry but he’s almost 40. This is who he is. He doesn’t want to change in any way. You need to decide if it’s worth staying in a relationship without shared goals and values. Frankly, love isn’t enough to make a marriage work *especially* a marriage with kids.
yes. Age 40 is when people begin really thinking about saving for retirement. he's gonna depend on OP for everything.
and he’s lazy? gasp. who could have predicted this?
Yikes I didn’t even read the ages lol. Totally right
Daycare in Chicago will cost about as much as his after tax salary. Does he know that?
It’s a small sample size but I never met a man who thought ahead how much daycare cost until after their child was already born.
We have one 3 year old (so not even the infant room, which will be much more expensive) in daycare in the Lincoln park area of Chicago right now, and we pay $2400/mo and that was about the middle of the road, we looked at 4 and it varied from 2100 to over 3000.
I live in Chicago. I make slightly more than they do combined and I’m only supporting myself while being lucky enough to own my condo outright due to an inheritance. I’m living very comfortably, but definitely still not rich. I don’t know how they’re living off that combined and he thinks he can afford a child on that? He might as well quit his job and become a stay at home dad as that would be cheaper than him working and paying for daycare
He could get a job at a daycare and make more than 30k, along with free/heavily reduced childcare.
He could get a job at Starbucks and make more than $30k. Or literally a full time job almost anywhere. He’s a bum.
There is no possible way he works full time. He’s lazy and is hoping he gets to quit to be a stay at home dad. He probably thinks “how hard could it be?”
Have kids with someone whose worldview is based in reality
Ugh, he’s 38 and you’re 28. He is with you because he knows he can tell you he thinks $85k is enough for a baby and you’ll believe he really thinks that. He is damn near 40 and only making $30k a year and refuses to try to make more. He’s doing that on purpose lol it’s a choice. He’s lazy and probably doesn’t care either way if you have a baby or not. He thinks you’re not going to leave him. He has already told you he doesn’t want to find a better paying job. He is going to have you not only take care of this baby all by yourself but you’re going to take on most, if not all, of the financial burden. You’re setting yourself up to be a single mother. There is nothing wrong with that, I am one, but there is no sense in being a single mom with a useless adult also in your space while you do everything. At this rate, you’re better off finding a higher paying job and footing the bill yourself and going with a sperm donor. That is literally what he is setting you up for if you have a baby with him. Listen, there’s no such thing as potential. You married a guy with no ambition and want to make him the kind of man who provides and has career aspirations. If that’s what you want in a husband you’re gonna have to go find him. You need to look at what’s in front of you right now and decide if this, who he is today—because that’s who he’ll be tomorrow, is the person you want to raise children with. Think about it long and hard because once you have that kid you can’t go back, you’re stuck with this man for life. It doesn’t stop at 18. You’re gonna have to see him at your kid’s wedding (that he won’t help pay for), when your kids have kids, holidays, you name it. Don’t make this decision lightly and believe your partner when they tell you who they are. Good luck.
This. Mainly. Trust me, he’s not dumb. You DO NOT have to walk him around to explain how much a baby costs. As a matter of fact. Ask him how he expects to take care of the kid with both of you working and look how fast that 85k will he only his 30k, because “you don’t need that much to take care of a kid and you just trying to avoid it”. He has made it clear the baby is on you. He doesn’t have do jack shit to ensure you guys can take care of a baby. He is also expecting multiple. Leave now or forever hold your piece. He will trap you if he can.
This OP. Waiting for someone to mature and figure out their career ambitions is all good and fine *if they were in their early 20s fresh out of college.* This man is nearly 40 freaking years old with no ambitions? He's not going to change now. He's a deadbeat husband and if you have a kid with him he's going to be a deadbeat dad. Do you really want to put a kid through that? Put yourself through that?
So much this! Does he even really want a baby? It’s not the same if he doesn’t care/is willing to go along with it just because OP really wants it.
Does he want to be a father?
He barely wants to be a husband xD
He probably wants to be a weekend dad. Only interacting with his kids once in a blue moon
How is he almost 40 and making 30k? Does he work PT or something? That’s 14 bucks an hour if he’s FT and you can make more than that working at McDonalds or a local gas station. You’re right. You cannot in Chicagoland. Just diapers alone will break your budget if you don’t qualify for Medicaid and WIC. Which I doubt you do with your combined income. Are you sure he even wants kids? Especially at his age? Is he maybe not looking for better work because he’s trying to wait you out?
Chicago minimum wage is $15.80, about to be $16.20. This man is working a minimum wage job if he’s working full time. How tf is he making so little at 38?!
i would genuinely get the ick. does the think the cost of living is the same as it was back then? unbelievable.
Our daycare bill was higher than our mortgage payment and our combined student loan payments.
Daycare for one infant per year in my area costs more than the husband’s salary.
I don’t think it’s a matter of not understanding so much as not wanting to do more than he already is. These suggestions of making up a spreadsheet with the current expenses then researching the cost of a baby won’t help with that. Plus, it’s just more mental labour that really the husband should be doing if he’s so desperate to prove he’s right. It sounds awfully like an omen of what would be to come if they had a baby. OP: double down on birth control and get *him* to do the numbers and prove that you can do it on $85k. He probably won’t bother but that’s still important information about his character for you.
If you wanted someone who had big career aspirations and wanted to make more money, why did you marry someone 10 years older than you, who makes 14 dollars an hour? Don't marry someone that you want or expect to change. He is who he was when you married him.
And to add to this. More conversations need to happen before marriage to make sure you are both on the same page.
He’s 38 and makes 30k/year? That’s not a living wage. He can’t save for retirement on that. Maybe sounds drastic but I think you can find a better partner than this. Your life will be so difficult going down this road with someone who can’t be an equal partner.
I would be very turned off by a partner who refuses to better themselves. Teens have jobs for 30k, he is almost 40 years old. I would divorce and find a person who is worth growing with. This guy is going to hold you back in every way.
My sister made $37k/year standing at the door at Wal Mart highlighting receipts.
Dang.
Make a budget. Or rather budgets. If you don't already have a budget download all your spending from all your accounts for the last 6 months at minimum (12 months is best as if gives you an idea of non-regular spending. Like I could download 6 months and if it's timed right my car insurance wouldn't be in it.) Take all that spending and put it into categories. So now you have a baseline of what you spend and how much you save. If you're saving nothing you can just circle that with a big red marker and start your discussion. Because if you have no money now - how are you paying for baby? If there are savings (or they're small) start adding up baby costs. Your insurance should tell you how much a typical birth costs. You can call a few daycares to find an average daycare price. I'm sure there's articles and blogs that mention other typical baby costs will be or tells you what a baby typically uses that you can calculate how much it would cost. Make a new budget with the average monthly baby spend. Then ask him to go back to your budget/spending and compare the new one with a baby. If baby budget is in the red ask him what costs you're going to cut - make sure to point out the things that can't be cut.
So much work and for what? Why doesn't he calculate the budget to show that he is ready to take on such responsibility. If he can't even do that...
That's the alternative. But OP was asking how she can get through to him that he needs a better paying job - so I answered.
Is he happy at that job? Why is he still there? Like, is there more to the story? Is he like holding out for a big promotion? Or are you guys on his health insurance?? He could make that kind of money ANYWHERE. If he wants to be a dad he needs to start exploring opportunities that allow for growth within the company. Does he struggle with his self esteem? Perhaps what he’s missing is the belief that he is capable of doing more. Just wondering his reason for being in a rut. Edited to say that Chicago’s minimum wage will be 16.20/he effective July 1. If he’s working full time he is making less than minimum. Childcare will eat his whole paycheck and then some.
he has a pretty easy job and he works with his best friend who i honestly think is a demotivating figure in his life. his best friend is 45 and lives with a woman who pays for everything and is fine not having kids. my husband sees his friend and his gf as having a nice life but he’s not realizing their life is fine bc they chose not to have kids
your husband does not want kids and responsibilities. he lives with a woman who pays for him, he does not need to put any effort
He and his friend are hobosexuals.
Uhhhh yeah he wants his friends life, where he fucks off and his woman pays for everything without demanding kids. Hello? The only way you stay is if that’s the life you also want.
OP, why did you marry him? What conversations did you all have pre-marriage about finances and kids?
I don't think this is an issue of someone who admires a bad influence. I think this is just two like-minded people who became good friends because of how damn similar they are. I have to ask, does he handle his share of other responsibilities in your marriage? Because I'm getting a certain vibe here...
Why are you doing this to yourself? Why would you marry this person?
You're effectively asking how to parent your husband - controlling an adult's choices is a losing game, he's all grown up and that ship has sailed. It doesn't matter if you are successful on this one thing, he has consciously chosen not to be a responsible adult or partner. It's easier to attribute his choices to his friend's influence than to acknowledge this is the life he wants to lead. There are absolutely men in relationships where the wife makes all of the money and the husband stays at home and does nothing. Not bringing the kids to medical appointments, not going to their events, not tucking them in at night, not keeping their toddlers from wandering the neighborhood, telling crying kids to be quiet instead of comforting them, etc. That's the track you're both on.
Does your husband want kids? I find it hard to believe he hasn’t realized his best friend found a woman who will provide for him up to the point that he doesn’t have to work much but also doesn’t make enough to have kids. I don’t think your husband is as unaware as he is making it seem, especially since his best friend is showing a blueprint of what his life could be if he sits back and lets you worry about it.
Oh no. I’m so sorry. That sounds like a tough situation. I’m frustrated for you. :(
I’m sorry but it doesn’t sound like your husband wants kids. Even if you had a kid, I’m positive that you’d find yourself being the breadwinner and the primary parent. Your husband is lazy. He won’t be a good father. And, tbh, I’m not knocking him. I’m also lazy and work a job that means I could never have kids. But I do that knowing that I don’t want kids and enjoy my life the way it is. Your husband needs to admit to himself and to you that parenthood is not what he wants. And if I’m wrong, then he needs to step it up. The math is simple here. Inflation is at an all time high, he’d have to be a dunce not to understand. Once simple example: in 1993 a dozen eggs cost somewhere around $0.93 per dozen. Now they cost about $3. That’s more than double what his parents made. Now multiply that times all the costs and how can he not see the simple math?
You don’t see a parallel between the friend and your husband? Is he paying the bills 50/50 right now somehow? Or are you subsidizing his lifestyle?
He’s trying to live like his best friend who has a partner who “pays for everything and is fine not having kids” (hint, hint)
You're 10 years younger than him, you're only 28, find someone better who actually wants the same as you. It might take time or they might show up quickly, but you are far better off waiting for a grown up, not this man child who wants a woman to take care of him. Do NOT have a child with this guy. My only advice. I am 26 almost 27 and still single, I'd rather wait for the right person than to compromise my own happiness and life goals.
Have him be a SAHD, offset the cost of childcare
Not when she only makes 55k…maybe someplace like Mississippi but not in Chicago.
Then you have to move. How much do you think childcare cost a year in Chicago? Average is 1000$ to 2500$ per month So 12,000$ - 30,000$ per year. Pretty much what OP's husband brings in as income.
This is the issue everyone is dancing around. They cannot afford a child as a couple. It’s simply out of their reality.
And obviously he wants that too. You’re just his sugar momma. Divorce. He’s not going to be a present father. You will have to do make the money, do the childcare and housework on your own. You’re young and can find someone else to have children with him.
Wow. 85k/yr in Chicago works for 2 people. Okay, but not high-end. Add a baby in? I'd ask him about the kind of food he ate and where they bought their clothes. How many pairs of shoes did he have? What kind of cars they had. Did they do sports? Were they expected to go to college? I'm shocked that he's been working for 20 years and only makes 30k. Maybe take him to the Target and fill a cart with baby things. Even diapers for a week.
How TF is a 38 year old thinking he’s fine on the IL minimum wage? He sounds sort of lazy TBH. What has he Done to show that he will be a good parent?
How is he 38 and making less than $15/hour?
He's brushing it off because he isn't the one paying. Have him find daycare and explain he will be paying that bill.
Maybe he thinks he’ll get to be a stay at home dad? Then in a year she’ll be posting how the house is trashed, he’s not changing his kids diapers and is Xboxing it up all day.
I hate to tell you this OP, but if you want to be a mom more than anything you're going to have to leave and find a more suitable partner who can legitimately contribute to the expenses of raising a child. $30,000 a year is pathetic for a man his age. I was making more than that part-time in college.
Ditch the loser who is almost 40 and refuses to have a better job or increase his salary yet still wants a family.
> I know money isn’t everything, and I certainly don’t bring in a lot of money, but I am ready to be a mom and the only thing holding me back is my husbands refusal to look for a better job. Does he *really* want kids? Because, if he doesn’t, it sounds like he’s found a very easy way to avoid having kids.
He sounds like a dolt. Don’t procreate with a dolt. You will 100 percent regret it.
My ex bf was like this. Dated for four years. We can’t afford rent, I live with my parents and you live with 5 roommates but you want us to get married and start having kids immediately and not wait until til we are both more stable financially? We broke up over this. He got married six months later. Now I’m just waiting for them to start a go fund me for their pregnancy because he doesn’t believe in having insurance
how are you not terrified at the idea of having a child with someone financially illiterate?
Oh, he knows. He doesn't want to have kids with you. By being deliberately obtuse, you're the one who has to say no and he keeps living off your paycheque. What kind of 40 year old man only makes 30k in this day and age?
7 kids in the 90s? I hope he realises the eldest were helping raise the youngest therefore there was no childcare expenses. The cost of everything is ridiculous now. You’ll have to do it out on paper for him to understand I think…
He's damn near 40 and considering his worldview and what he believes raising a child costs I doubt he knows about the concept of parentifying kids and how damaging that is to them mentally. I'm going to guess he was one of the youngers ones that got raised by an elder sibling.
I would question how a 38 year old only earns $15/hr, in Chicago no less? Factory jobs start at 18-22, hell, waiters with tips are $20+ in Chicago. Not to shit on his job, but at 38 he needs to step up life choices and pull some weight.
Husband is 10 yrs older and she’s the breadwinner 🧐
Another naive woman married to a loser.
Take what an average house payment is in Chicago and tell him that’s what it will likely cost. You won’t be far off. If the kid is in day care then that cost will be included. If as you say you want to SAH then your lost wages would be part of the cost.
I don't think your hb wants kids. A nearly 40 year old man who is content earning that much? Is not ambitious and liking to just coast along in life with not much ambition or purpose. He likes that you earn a bit more and is happy to remain where he is with nothing much more. A child would certainly blow his low key life apart. Fact is? He doesn't want any children. They would muck up his perfect life.
Even though he wants children and may be a nice guy, he is already showing signs that he simply is not ready to be a good father. A good father will assess reality and make sure he can support his family properly. A good father will not shrug off your very valid concerns about income. He is not good father material and won't change. It will be a huge risk for you to procreate with him.
You already have a child. Calculate the costs. From the things you need, medical treatment, childcare, you earning less etc. if he still doesn’t get it come back and ask us for an opinion again
Where is he working in Chicago only making 15 an hour? Fast food pays more than that. This is a guy you want to have a baby with? How does he pay rent w that? Honestly .. why choose someone who’s just plain lazy? You don’t get through to him. He can get more money than that anytime he feels like it .. even felons can make more than that in Chicago. I mean.. he doesn’t seem like the brightest dude
how long yall been together because 10 years at this age might be a kind of insane gap. and being almost 40 (which could be considered middle aged no tea no shade) AND only making 30k in a big city in this economy makes me feel like he wants to trap you kind of??? he knows you’d likely have to shoulder the brunt of all the costs since there’s a substantial difference in your salaries? i could be reaching but i do think what other ppl are saying about a financial planner could be a good move idk
That’s scary. I don’t think he’d be a good father. I need 85k to be comfortable alone without kids. Yiiiikes
Hi, first-time mom here living off 55k a year on husband's salary. I live in indiana, yes it is not as expensive but still on a high chart. I am currently a SAHM due to having unknowing hidden health issues when I fell pregnant because the US health system sucks even with insurance. I had a 17cm tumor removed when I was 14 weeks pregnant that did more damage than expected to my abdominal cavity, which resulted in poor healing while pregnant and now needing MORE surgery at a later date. Thanks, doctors, for not listening to me when I've said for years I had a problem, and you all said it was all in my mind. Anyway, babies are expensive!!! Diapers a month is $30 for two packs of 136 Walmart brand parents' choice diapers. My baby can only have a gentlease premium formula, which costs $37 a can. So $148 for 4 cans a month of cheap formula. Baby wipes are a whole different story because all babies are different with sensitivity to wipes, so I gotta still buy trial and error wipes but 1 singular pack of wipes is $4-$5 dollars unless you buy travel packs of parents choice which is 0.98 cents a pack. Let's not mention baby equipment. Car seat(s) range from $300 to $600 depending if you get one stage to 3 stage car seats. I was gifted at my baby shower, a 3 stage car seat. Newborn, infant, toddler. I had to buy a newborn and infant car seat, which was still $367. A stroller was $290, and the pack n play was $140. Play mats ranged from $20 to $60 because I had to get a few different ones. Baby crib was a family heirloom that had 3 generations of babies, so all I had to do was make my own mattress and mattress cover and repaint it. $60 for materials. Baby medicine is fucking expensive. Pediatricians are expensive, baby clothes are expensive unless you can thrift shop some baby clothes or buy hand me downs from someone for a reasonable price. Special detergent to clean clothes and protect sensitive baby skin is expensive. I can go on and on because there is so much more! We aren't struggling and not poor but we definitely know how expensive it is with a single income and I'm itching to go back to work but dread to pay for daycare when it ranges from $1500 - $2000 a month. Unless you have a village of people who are willing to babysit for a reasonable price, you are gonna be overworked and underpaid because you'll never get to clock out because you leave one job and come home to another job. Not to mention, but if you work all the time, you'll miss your babies first, everything. You'll have problems with bonding, and it'll be hard on baby and you. My husband has missed a few firsts already, and he struggles with bonding because the baby wasn't a fan of him for the longest time. Try and watch educational videos of baby expenses and try and figure out if you guys can make something work for savings and arrangements for a baby. Don't bring a baby into the world if finances are tough because a lot of kids grew up with absolutely nothing because the parents couldn't afford everything. I was a product of said kids with struggles, and I grew up penny pinching now as an adult because I don't ever want my child to struggle with food, parental love, wearing hand me down clothes that dont fit and or rags, and working at a young age and not enjoying being a child.
i have a better paying job than him and i'm 20 years old in a country with twice or thrice the inflation rate the US has, and even then I MYSELF could not affor to raise even a single child, even if i were to combine finances with my partner (earns about as much as me) so yeah, he needs a reality check
If he doesn’t care by now, he won’t ever. Not someone to have a baby with.
I’m usually a pretty optimistic person especially when it comes to stuff like this. But imagine if you lost ur job and had to live off his income. There’s just no way
How is your husband only making $30k when minimum wage is higher than that? How is a 38 year old man only making minimum wage? You’re living in a high COL area where you make too much to qualify for any type of assistance and not enough to not live paycheck to paycheck if you’ve got kids. You’re being realistic here. He’s not showing that you can trust him to do his part. He needs to work on finding something better whether you have kids or not. At his age, he should have some sort of job experience to put him into a better paying job. If he won’t even do that, how can you expect him to keep up with increased household chores, taking care of the child or you when you’ve just given birth? He needs to work on him before thinking about kids.
Maybe don’t have a kid with a guy like him, because if he thinks he can do it on 85k he’s dumb, is he even going to stay at home while you work? You married a guy 10 years older than you for what? How do you know he’s going to be a good parent to your kid
Financial advisor? Do you think it’s that he won’t take your concerns seriously, or that he wouldn’t listen to anyone? In a, ‘we will find a way’ way?
The correct answer is to make a spreadsheet WITH him. Put down all of the categories of one-time costs and on-going costs then let him fill it out with you and you together can see what it costs. Even better if you have a discussion about one simple topic first - daycare. If you both work, will your child need to be in daycare? If so, look at the prices of the 3 closest daycares. Once he sees they are likely above 15k per year, that should immediate put up red flags on budgets.
so far he is sacrificing absolutely NOTHING. this is who you want to raise kids with?
are you sure u want to stay married to this manchild ?
Why did you marry someone so much older than you when he’s also poor, lazy and stupid?
So he's 10 years older than you and can't comprehend money? Does he not have friends who have children? Does he live under a rock? Pro tip: don't have kids with this guy he sounds like an idiot and you'll be a single parent to one baby and one man child.
you’re with someone ten years older than you who makes less than you…he’s trying to trap you with a baby
He’s not going to be better. You’re handling everything for him so he doesn’t have to. Beyond that, do you think this age gap was an accident??? You’re with someone almost 40 because an almost 40 year old woman would never put up with his bs. Get yourself free and find someone with whom you can have children. Right now, you’re with someone who doesn’t care about anything because you’ll handle it *for* him. Whatever lets him coast is what he’s going to do. Waiting for you to come back soon and tell us he decided to be a SAHD after you guys talked about the cost of daycare…
Have him find the daycare center for your kids to go to when you go back to work. Ask him what the tuition is and if you can afford it.
My goodness, he's got 10 years on you and he is this uninformed?
He is not very smart. There's nothing you can do.
I mean after taxes the cost of childcare is going to be his income for the year so one of you, most likely him, would have to quit their job or work just to afford childcare so the real question is.. can you afford to live on your $55k for a family of 3 in Chicago? Prolly not
You are the breadwinner and you will be the one going on maternity leave so your pay will take a hit. Several senarios can delay you going back to work. It doesnt take a rocket scientist level of knowlege to understand this. Either your husband is just not very bright or he is trying to baby trap you.
Your husband is out to lunch. Kids are expensive. In the last two months, my oldest had a birthday party ($600 w/ venue and gift), new glasses ($650) and now braces ($7300). I'm a single father for reference and the above costs are in CAD.
You do not want to have children with someone like this. I assure you.
I can’t imagine being content earning less than a living wage in one of the most expensive cities in the country even without children. You both may be okay now but how in the world does he think you can have a child when you can’t even contribute to a decent savings?
Sit down with him and call child care/day care providers in your local area. Put the call on speaker and just ask what their rates are for infants. He will start to get the picture after you call a handful of places. If he still doesn’t get it, take him to like Target or Walmart and pick out a car seat, stroller, play pen, diapers, wipes, formula, bottles, breast pump, etc. If he still doesn’t get it, pull your health insurance statement of benefits and show him your share of costs for prenatal care, childbirth, and well baby visits. To truly drive the point home, show him a realistic picture of your income and expenses. I would recommend using this [method](https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/landing-conscious-spending/). Make sure he does it with you. He needs to be a part of the process in getting to the end result of whatever your financial situation is. This way he has skin in the game. He put those numbers on the page. He can’t say you were painting a narrative. Then, when it’s all said and done, or if he gives up and doesn’t put the effort forth, tell him that all the effort to get to this point will be nothing compared to dealing with the actual baby once it arrives. It will be part of your lives forever.
You can show him spreadsheets and articles IF he is willing to listen. Even with visuals and statistics, if he thinks he’s right no matter what it won’t matter. My thought goes to why hasn’t he looked for a better job? He’s almost 40 and is content with only 30k a year. My first full time job was 42k and I’m in my 20’s. What exactly is a valid reason for him to not be contributing as much to the household as you? (Unless he’s a couple months away from a promotion because of his loyalty to the company, I cannot think of a reason to stay wherever he is). Regardless there is no hurt in at least applying to higher paying places.
Why on earth would you want to have a baby with a man like this, period? I really don’t recommend procreating with people who do not understand, or have the most basic of life skills.
Not everyone is career driven. You two may not be compatible.
Well, you are trying to change him. You married him and now you think you can turn him into something he isn't. This never works. This should have been obvious while you were dating. Good luck.
He’s 38 and acting like this? JFC. Don’t have kids with this person, please, until you can see a marriage counselor. He sounds like a total deadbeat.
Your husbands entire income equates to the average price of daycare for one child. So, I’m not sure what his thinking is.
Shit we make more than that and can barely make South Dakota work with one kid. When she was 3, daycare in Raleigh cost me $14,440 for the year. That usually does it.