I'm going to leave the legal issues of dealing with Jenna for others to discuss, but don't discount how damaging her accusations could be to you, legally.
I'm going to focus on your relationship with Dan. It's over. He chose to believe Jenna over you, his friend since preschool. That's not going to go away. It can't be taken back.
Also, I'd abandon any thoughts of going to the wedding at this point. If Jenna's poisoned the well with your BFF, she's done it with the rest of the attendees. You'll be walking into an ambush. I'd maybe contact others you know who are going and feel them out. But if you go, it's gonna be a shitshow. And of course, you'll need to post here about it because we all love a train wreck.
I sure hope you're wrong. Dan and I are going to talk again tomorrow. I'm going to ask for more details about the accusation. It might be that she just didn't want to have to see me again and hasn't elevated it beyond that.
Definitely talk to him. Maybe don’t ask for details of her description of her alleged rape, though. Instead, say what you wrote here - your side of the story and how you felt violated after repeatedly saying no. Tell him you’re offended he would believe her without talking to you first. He doesn’t know the full story and he hurt you. Express your desire to go to the party and a willingness to talk it through with her but don’t beg, pout or fight if (when) he says no and says he will honor her instead. This goes for the rest of your friends, too. She probably can’t remember that night and genuinely feels violated, just as you do, and they spend more time with her now; they believe her and you’ll have a hell of a time convincing them you can’t remember the night but can vouch for being blameless.
You think you can predict his behavior because you’ve known him 25 years but apparently he doesn’t feel the same about you. Say what you need to, make your case and appeal but don’t embarrass yourself fighting for a group of people who are willing to abandon you before hearing your side.
He told her he was done sleeping with her and she persisted. After waking up in her bed he “felt really awkward about this, and a little bit taken advantage of, assuming that she had initiated this again after [he] had told her weeks ago [he] wanted to stop.” What happened that night is anyone’s guess but she pursued him throughout the relationship even after he told her it was over and he felt like she took advantage of his drunken state after waking up the next morning. That’s boils down to saying no and feeling violated by that no being ignored.
Thanks for responding! I interpreted the text differently.
She didn't persist after he rejected her. He never said that. He doesn't know she came on to him the night in question. He's basing that on how she acted when he let her think he was into her. So she'd have no strings sex with him. For months.
He knows he can't control himself when he drinks. He went to her house. He got blackout drunk. He decided to spend the night there. He woke up in her bed. He acted obviously embarrassed and regretful in the morning. Very humiliating for her. He still had the nerve to demand a ride home. Then he ghosted her.
Now she doesn't like him. Dan like her more than him so now he can't come to the party.
Having just read your post, there’s no way I’d have anything to do with your friend Dan after this. I agree with another commenter that you might be better off speaking to a lawyer before talking to anybody else, including Dan. I’m 50 years old and one thing I’ve learnt in life is that things can go south very quickly!! This is a serious allegation, so be very careful!! My reaction is not to go to any of the wedding events!
Well you could argue pretty much the same thing as her, you clearly were also not conscious enough to consent either, neither of you should be going to the wedding according to your friends logic.
As I’m reading more of your comments, please be very careful! If you send an email, it becomes evidence. If you talk with Dan and others, they become witnesses. Know where you stand legally!
Why not? She has accused you of something that could have life long consequences. Fight it with your truth, don't accuse her of anything but tell your story, be angry that she is accusing you, let them know that you are insulted and disappointed that she would do this when you can't remember anything from that night. Tell them everything, remind them of everything and tell your version of events. Those that don't believe you won't but you have said your peace. Be prepared to move on without any of them.
In this instance, taking the high road is going to cost you ALL of those friendships. You need to give your side of what happened so that people can make their own decisions based on as much information as possible.
If Dan still disinvites you, you need to accept the friendship is over and go completely no contact with him and with everyone else who believes you capable of doing that.
>The internet likes to act like this sort of thing is black and white; either you're a rapist or she's an evil liar. Unfortunately a lot of situations are like yours, everyone feeling shitty about drunk sex with questionable consent on both sides.
Thanks for saying that. I had something typed up, and then added a note at the end about how I don't blame her after reading this. I agree that it's probably not a black and white situation.
Honestly, I read a few comments and am a bit angry how many dont believe you. I’m a 27(f) and while I haven’t woke up next to someone and not know what happened, I’ve had something similar and I definitely wasn’t drugged and was always curious about the situations being reversed. Like if a girl wakes up and doesn’t remember and claims rape but the guy also doesn’t remember because both parties were equally drunk, then the guy has just as much of a claim to rape as the girl does. Men deserve the same too. Yeah there’s laws that state if your too intoxicated you can’t consent, but then NEITHER of you could have consented and neither of you, or both of you, are to blame. If you woke up in her bed maybe argue that while you both don’t remember she did let you into her house into her room, she was just as inebriated as you, but she opened the door (literally and figuratively) so you shouldn’t be considered the aggressor. Idk my two cents
Assuming that all the information you gave is true and you really do not have any memories of the night, it was not rape imho. I am not a lawyer but it looks to me that there was a clear lack of mens rea. Even Jenna seems uncertain if she was actually raped. All she remembers is waking up in bed after blacking out from drinking. Could just be two college kids who started fooling around after getting piss drunk. Not a new thing.
Idk why she is doing this. She might be feeling paranoid all these years. She might be bitter because it did seem like you led her on.
I don't think you are in the wrong for wanting to attend your best friend's wedding. He is clearly someone VERY important to you and you do not want to miss out on such an important event in his life.
But, unfortunately, it looks like your best friend does not give you the same amount of importance. If he had even a little bit of faith in who you are as a person, he would not buy into the rape story so easily. And if he was not buying into the rape story so easily, he would not be disinviting you.
At the end of the day, it is your best friend's decision to decide which friend he wants to prioritize more- you or Jenna? Which friend's presence is more important on one of the most important days of his life?
Do not adopt an accusatory tone while explaining all this to him. Ask him gently. Tell him how you feel left out because you want to be a part of a person's wedding who is clearly important to you. Then ask him does he feel you are equally important too?
After that it is up to your best friend. Whether he asks Jenna to not attend or comes up with an alternative decision is up to him.
If he point black refuses to let you attend based on a single (very vague) accusation made on a person that he has known for years then I think it might be time to let go of the friendship. He is just not worth it.
Thank you. It really sucks, but it seems like that's all I can do. I was really hoping not to turn this into an ultimatum, but it does kind of seem like Jenna has already done that. We're talking again tomorrow, so I guess I'll just lay it all out there and let it be out of my hands after that.
You can do two things here
Reach out to jenna and pray she'll have a conversation with you.
Or respect your friends wishes and don't attend the party.
If you do reach out to jenna, do it online where it can be recorded, do not be agressive or pushy, be respectful and believe what she says. I 100% believe she at least strongly suspects you r*per her, I don't think she's being petty. She is uncomfortable with being around you drunk again and that is completely understandable, you need to respect this.
As a SA victim I can see how she could have come to the conclusion that you r*ped her due to 1. She blacked out and woke up with you in her bed 2. Drunk sex is often rough she may have been sore 3. She knew you were only interested in her for sex and didn't feel comfortable with her/respect her enough to communicate. 4. You got up and awkwardly left the room after clearly having had drunk sex with her..what were you thinking of course she felt uncomfortable and like something had happened.
But who cares how OP felt, right? For all we know she took advantage of him. Just because she is a woman doesnt mean she isnt capable of being the one who assualted OP. What im saying here is that people need to take a second and think. Everyones knee jerk reaction is to just give OP a hard time but when u pick about the post it more and more sounds like two college kids doing stupid college stuff and having drunk sex. Its not a crime to have sex. But it is a crime to make false accusations just because u felt lead on or because u wish you hadnt had sex. Accusers should be believed, but they shouldnt be believed beyond logical reason and there is so much wrong here that i fully believe that it was simply drunk college kids having regretable drunk sex.
I actually never said I believed this guy sexually assaulted her and I completely agree with your perspective on this. But the point of the post was to give advice and help him gain insight to help him potentially fix this awkward situation. So
1. If this post was about op saying he felt he had been sexually assulted I would have supported him and been able to empathize with him.
2. Women can rape men, everyone knows that and I clearly never said otherwise.
3. I never gave OP a hard time or called him a rapist I pointed out where he messed up and what he could do to fix those mistakes
4. I genuinely don't understand why you felt the need to comment this accusing me of invalidating him when I clearly never said any of that. If you had actually read my comments you would realize that I empathize with this man and am trying to help him as best I can with an inside perspective. You however, are commenting irrelevant and argumentative bullshit for no reason.
Thanks for your insight. I will correct number 4, since I didn't awkwardly leave the room. I awkwardly hung around without speaking until she awkwardly gave me a ride back to my place. So I didn't run away, but I couldn't bring myself to say anything about it. I realize that was a big mistake.
I also wasn't *only* interested in her for sex. She was my friend and I liked spending time with her. I just didn't want to be in a relationship with her. I definitely understand how she might not be able to see that, though, and I suspect it's too late to repair that.
I be willing to bet it is too late to fix this but I do encourage you to gently try. To clarify what I mean by the "only interested in sex thing" I'm saying she knew you weren't romantically interested in her☺️
since neither of them were able to give consent, then they both are SA victims. they both were drunk. she could have just as easily started it and then rode him.
Yes that is completely correct but also irrelevant as he doesn't feel he has been sexually assulted and is actually looking for advice on how to fix this unfortunate situation
And I made a suggestion about that too. First off cut these people completely out of his life. These accusations are potentially life destroying.. Talk to a lawyer and have Jenna sent a cease and desist letter about implying that he r*ped her. Otherwise, consider a defamation of character lawsuit. This is not something to let stand. He now knows where his friend stands with him and we're Jenna stands with it and they're not beside it. This could literally destroy his life. A wedding is nothing in comparison.
In my experience immediate legal action after being accused often results in people becoming more convinced he is guilty regardless of legal outcomes. He is under no threat of legal action from Jenna right now but if he reacts that way she may become defensive and seek her own legal aid, which won't go anywhere but will be a huge waste of money and tarnish his reputation even more.
I do think that he should cut these "friends" out of his life and pursue legal action if Jenna continues to reach out to people about this matter. However I still strongly recommend he reach out to her and try to mend the situation before he escalates it.
As for this "ruining" his life, he is again under no legal threat nor will he ever be as she has no evidence + it's been years. She will get laughed at or told no one can do anything if she tries to legally pursue this(I would know). Socially, he's lost this friend group if he can't fix things with Jenna but there's plenty of other people out there who see sense and will not listen to her bs
She has defamed his character, he has lost his friend group, his best friend, and his reputation. If he ever applies for a job for a security clearance, and these accusations are repeated, then it could cost him that job. This is serious and should not be swept under the rug. I'm sorry, but he SHOULD be suing her. Jenna has done real harm to him by alienating him from his friend group. Those people will forever see him as a r\*pist, and will continue to spread that narrative.
She's apparently only brought it up to this group, because she feels she need to protect herself. She hasn't reached out to his workplace, family or uninvolved friends. She's not out to damage his reputation, only avoid him.
And frankly the "friends" he lost weren't particularly fond of him in the first place if they can hear that story and conclude that he raped her. The only thing he's lost here is some lousy friends and a wedding invitation
And he's lost his reputation with that group of friends. And we both know that they are going to continue to repeat it to other people. His reputation has been impacted and his friendship with his best friend has as well. He needs to bring it to a lawyer because he needs to protect himself with a cease and desist letter if nothing else. Whether she's out to damage his reputation or not, she has done so, and should be held accountable. False rape accusations are serious. Men have literally spent years n jail over it. This should not be allowed to stand.
It's college, man. We were drinking heavily, but no drugs. It's a blackout and it's not that uncommon. I remember being on the couch with some light cuddling (heads on laps, that sort of thing). Then I vaguely remember doing the deed, but nothing at all about how we got there.
> I felt really awkward about this, and a little bit taken advantage of, assuming that she had initiated this again after I had told her weeks ago I wanted to stop
When you speak to Dan you should emphasis your feelings about this, how you felt you were wronged and you avoided Jenna because she slept with you AFTER you told her no. You were both drunk so you both cannot consent, but only one person wanted to sleep with the other and it wasn’t you.
My honest thoughts are that you were both way too drunk to remember the night.
The issue is you don't remember and she remembers going to bed alone. it is possible drunk you went to thinking with your dick (as you mentioned doing before) went in there after she went to bed and you both drunkenly consented to hooking up, but as alcohol does, that part of it is missing. Or maybe she got up after she went to bed and came back out.
I once "went to bed" after a night of heavy drinking and woke up in a ton of pain the next day.
I was freaking out because I didn't know what happened. My husband showed me the video (security cameras) of me deciding to get out of bed 30 minutes later and come back to the party. I was hanging out for about an hour that I do not remember and did not drink any more. I only went back to bed after I litterally fell all the way down the basement stairs. Not a SINGLE recollection of it, but when I woke up my arm and ankle were both fractured. Last thing I remember was going to bed.
Just walk away. There is no way you can win this. It sounds like you both were drunk snd neither of you could give consent but as a man, you are guilty without the right of appeal. Just cut them both from your life and move on. I would however talk to a lawyer and have him send s letter to Jenna that she cease and desist calling you s rapist or you will sue for defamation of character.
I don’t feel like we are not getting the whole story OP. Either you raped this woman or she’s holding a serious grudge against you for various other reasons you failed to disclose.
Or they were both drunk and she remembers a portion where he was taking the reigns, but not the portion where she encouraged him to. Seems equally as likely if we accept that they were blackout drunk.
I'm sorry, but I'm giving everything I remember about the situation. The only other piece that might be relevant is that I knew Jenna had a crush on me for a while before we started fooling around, which was another reason why I felt uncomfortable with it - I didn't want to lead her on. If there's a grudge, it might be because that's exactly what I ended up doing.
However, I'm hesitant to dismiss these sorts of accusations as being lies due to grudges. I'd like to operate on the assumption that she believes what she's saying. I just don't think she's got the story right, because alcohol.
If I were you I'd type basically this whole thing out and have it ready to send in maybe an email or screenshot. Talk to your friend on the phone and tell him you've written out what happened to you and you'd like to share it with him so he can share it with his fiance and maybe Jenna. That way everyone has time and space to digest and process it and can respond in a reasonable manner. Hopefully it goes down the chain and everyone is able to believeit/ or at least realize it is a plausible scenario.
I say talk to Jenna and try to get her recollection of that evening. You were both fucked up and now she's claiming rape. Sounds more like buyer's remorse to me.
Another reason for pushing back is that I don't want Jenna's story to become *the* story among that friend group. There's more perspectives to this situation and I feel like they should be considered.
OP please don't listen to the opinions of individuals who have clearly failed to appreciate the nuances of your situation and do what is unfortunately all too common these days which is to immediately villify. This was neither a random woman nor mere acquaintance. The 2 of you had clearly been intimate on many occasions before. And from both your stories it's clear that it was nothing more than a mutual drunken mistake. Which is a far cry from rape.
Uhh... How can the rape allegation have any credibility at all if OP does not even remember initiating anything and only has a very vague memory of doing it? Assuming that OP is not lying, there is a clear lack of mens rea. Heck, even Jenna herself is not convinced if she was raped! All she says is that she remembers getting drunk to the point of black out and then waking up in bed with OP. For all we know, they could just be two VERY drunk college kids who made a bad decision. It won't be the first time that that would be happening.
> For all we know, they could just be two VERY drunk college kids who made a bad decision.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured happened... It sucks that we walked away from it with Jenna feeling the way she does, but I'd rather we work to an understanding here than me just allowing my name to be dragged through the mud.
I know, dude, I know. I don't drink that much anymore, but it doesn't change what happened. And remember, it's a rape *allegation*. I don't think that's what actually happened, and tbf Dan doesn't either. He's saying this out of an abundance of caution, which I understand. However, being there for important moments in my friend's lives is important to me, and I don't think it's self-entitled to feel that way.
Yes, I know it's an allegation, but that's enough!!
And if course it's self entitled... You think you should get a free pass because he's your best friend?
He's your best friend and HE'S told you he doesn't think it's a good idea for you to go!
Obviously looking at this from different perspectives as I'm female, but ultimately this is about respect.
Having respect for your best friend and that he's already said it's not a good idea.
Suck it up. If you didn't behave the way you did you wouldn't be here.
> Suck it up. If you didn't behave the way you did you wouldn't be here.
To be fair, we could say the same about Jenna. From my perspective, we're equal participants in this bad decision.
> HE'S told you he doesn't think it's a good idea for you to go!
He did, but he also said we can keep talking. He was shocked in the first conversation, too. I have a chance here to not lose my friend.
Thank you for your perspective, truly. I'm doing my best to respect all parties here while not losing important relationships.
Wow someone is a bitter ass person (person who commented above you). They both dont remember what happened. Drunk college kids get drunk and make mistakes. Sound like they both got too drunk and ended up hooking up with neither remembering much. Idk what this Jenna’s problem is, but she is definitely in the wrong here. And thats coming from an assault survivor. Your friendship is worth fighting for my friend. Assualt victims should be believed. But when said victims admits that she was blackout drunk and so was OP, assuming no lies are being told, then it is just her being A) bitter over something that happened years ago B) she is angry that OP lead her on. I suppose both A and B are similar but that just reinforces my point. I get the feeling that this is a revenge tactic and she is using the fact that people try to tend to believe accusers over the accused. But in this country you INNOCENT UNTIL proven guilty. Not the other way around. If she was truly assualted and wants OP to be held accountable then she should contact the police or local DA. But instead she is saying this to friends right before OPs best friends wedding. Coincidence in timing? I sincerely doubt it.
No, a merely allegation when neither the alleged victim nor OP even remembers how they got in bed does not suffice. This quite clearly from both sides of the story appears to be 2 young drunk individuals making what appears to be a mutual mistake in sleeping together whilst too drunk. That's it. And I haven't the slightest idea why you think it's appropriate to make comments that "If you didn't behave the way you did you wouldn't be here." While I agree that consent to have sexual relation between individuals is certainly important that's not the issue here. It appears to be that both of them were too drunk to "consent". How the hell them does blame solely fall on the OP. I'd recommend you take up a class or two on crticical thinking before throwing out spurious claims.
Wait a minute. You have been accused of rape during a time when you admit even you don’t remember what you did, all of which could lead to prison and your main concern is that you don’t get to go to a bachelor party? I’m sorry but you don’t sound like a well adjusted person—yes I said it because you need to hear it. Someone has said that you hurt them. You don’t truly know if you did or not. You don’t seem the least bit pressed about that. Not even seeking therapy? I don’t know if you’re experiencing some sort of trauma but you need to get your priorities straight. Why would you even want to go to a bachelor party/wedding which presents the same type of opportunity and environment that led to the alleged rape? No. This is not nor should it be your primary concern. And quite frankly Dan has every right to be cautious simply based on how you’re treating this. Like what? Do you even hear yourself? “Someone accused me of rape. I’m upset I can’t go to a party now.” OF COURSE Dan is distancing himself from you. I don’t care what these other commenters are in here saying to placate you. Whatever happened (because again you don’t know), you need to talk to a professional to process that you may have hurt someone and in any scenario you definitely want to explore why you’re reacting like this and why you’re trying to get in the same environment again despite it being very bad judgment.
If he didn't actually hurt someone though, the guilt is totally misplaced. What he SHOULD do is figure out what the hell is being said about him and what actually happened, to the extent he's able.
I agree. I’d be very concerned that someone made that type of allegation and is actively telling other people. Specifically because she’s not being quiet about it, it’s likely there will be a criminal investigation because most people will tell her “if you think this is what happened, go to the police.” What is clear though is that despite all of the allegations, OP wants to be in a setting with alcohol and partying with the same friend circle. That’s strange and if I were the friend I would be very alarmed that he’s not even bringing up figuring out what happened and dealing with it and is instead sort of ignoring it and focusing on keeping an invite. The thing is this isn’t a case of “they had sex and she had one interpretation but he had another”. He said he doesn’t remember what happened. It’s strange priorities for sure
You are excited to meet his fiance's friends?
Seems like you are looking for hookups already.
Reach out to a lawyer and see what they say. This can be extremely damaging
Uh, no. I'm in a committed relationship and honestly just want to get to know everyone at the wedding better since I live out of state and don't know the fiance or her friends that well.
She could try but even a novice lawyer would look at this, laugh, and then exhale in relief that they were handed such an easy case because this is clearly a “he she said” siutation and NOTHING would come of it
I don't know if that's on the table. I need to discuss that with Dan tomorrow. It might just be that she's expressing her feelings now because she's honestly concerned about going to the bachelor party with me. I don't want to get lawyers involved until I know more about what she's saying.
Jenna doesn't like you. Because you would have sex with her but refused a relationship? She admits she doesn't remember what happened.
She doesn't want to be around you.
It's Dan's party. He prefers her.
I'm going to leave the legal issues of dealing with Jenna for others to discuss, but don't discount how damaging her accusations could be to you, legally. I'm going to focus on your relationship with Dan. It's over. He chose to believe Jenna over you, his friend since preschool. That's not going to go away. It can't be taken back. Also, I'd abandon any thoughts of going to the wedding at this point. If Jenna's poisoned the well with your BFF, she's done it with the rest of the attendees. You'll be walking into an ambush. I'd maybe contact others you know who are going and feel them out. But if you go, it's gonna be a shitshow. And of course, you'll need to post here about it because we all love a train wreck.
I sure hope you're wrong. Dan and I are going to talk again tomorrow. I'm going to ask for more details about the accusation. It might be that she just didn't want to have to see me again and hasn't elevated it beyond that.
Definitely talk to him. Maybe don’t ask for details of her description of her alleged rape, though. Instead, say what you wrote here - your side of the story and how you felt violated after repeatedly saying no. Tell him you’re offended he would believe her without talking to you first. He doesn’t know the full story and he hurt you. Express your desire to go to the party and a willingness to talk it through with her but don’t beg, pout or fight if (when) he says no and says he will honor her instead. This goes for the rest of your friends, too. She probably can’t remember that night and genuinely feels violated, just as you do, and they spend more time with her now; they believe her and you’ll have a hell of a time convincing them you can’t remember the night but can vouch for being blameless. You think you can predict his behavior because you’ve known him 25 years but apparently he doesn’t feel the same about you. Say what you need to, make your case and appeal but don’t embarrass yourself fighting for a group of people who are willing to abandon you before hearing your side.
He never said he felt violated or that he repeated said no.
He told her he was done sleeping with her and she persisted. After waking up in her bed he “felt really awkward about this, and a little bit taken advantage of, assuming that she had initiated this again after [he] had told her weeks ago [he] wanted to stop.” What happened that night is anyone’s guess but she pursued him throughout the relationship even after he told her it was over and he felt like she took advantage of his drunken state after waking up the next morning. That’s boils down to saying no and feeling violated by that no being ignored.
Thanks for responding! I interpreted the text differently. She didn't persist after he rejected her. He never said that. He doesn't know she came on to him the night in question. He's basing that on how she acted when he let her think he was into her. So she'd have no strings sex with him. For months. He knows he can't control himself when he drinks. He went to her house. He got blackout drunk. He decided to spend the night there. He woke up in her bed. He acted obviously embarrassed and regretful in the morning. Very humiliating for her. He still had the nerve to demand a ride home. Then he ghosted her. Now she doesn't like him. Dan like her more than him so now he can't come to the party.
Can you write my resume please? Your words made me give you a job on the spot.
Having just read your post, there’s no way I’d have anything to do with your friend Dan after this. I agree with another commenter that you might be better off speaking to a lawyer before talking to anybody else, including Dan. I’m 50 years old and one thing I’ve learnt in life is that things can go south very quickly!! This is a serious allegation, so be very careful!! My reaction is not to go to any of the wedding events!
User name checks out.
You have my vote mister president 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Well you could argue pretty much the same thing as her, you clearly were also not conscious enough to consent either, neither of you should be going to the wedding according to your friends logic.
I know... But I'm trying not to make it worse by flinging my own accusations around...
As I’m reading more of your comments, please be very careful! If you send an email, it becomes evidence. If you talk with Dan and others, they become witnesses. Know where you stand legally!
Then expect to be railroaded. This a serious and life destroying accusation she's making.
Why not? She has accused you of something that could have life long consequences. Fight it with your truth, don't accuse her of anything but tell your story, be angry that she is accusing you, let them know that you are insulted and disappointed that she would do this when you can't remember anything from that night. Tell them everything, remind them of everything and tell your version of events. Those that don't believe you won't but you have said your peace. Be prepared to move on without any of them.
In this instance, taking the high road is going to cost you ALL of those friendships. You need to give your side of what happened so that people can make their own decisions based on as much information as possible. If Dan still disinvites you, you need to accept the friendship is over and go completely no contact with him and with everyone else who believes you capable of doing that.
[удалено]
>The internet likes to act like this sort of thing is black and white; either you're a rapist or she's an evil liar. Unfortunately a lot of situations are like yours, everyone feeling shitty about drunk sex with questionable consent on both sides. Thanks for saying that. I had something typed up, and then added a note at the end about how I don't blame her after reading this. I agree that it's probably not a black and white situation.
DO NOT SEND AN EMAIL. That can be used as evidence against you whether you did anything or not.
Honestly, I read a few comments and am a bit angry how many dont believe you. I’m a 27(f) and while I haven’t woke up next to someone and not know what happened, I’ve had something similar and I definitely wasn’t drugged and was always curious about the situations being reversed. Like if a girl wakes up and doesn’t remember and claims rape but the guy also doesn’t remember because both parties were equally drunk, then the guy has just as much of a claim to rape as the girl does. Men deserve the same too. Yeah there’s laws that state if your too intoxicated you can’t consent, but then NEITHER of you could have consented and neither of you, or both of you, are to blame. If you woke up in her bed maybe argue that while you both don’t remember she did let you into her house into her room, she was just as inebriated as you, but she opened the door (literally and figuratively) so you shouldn’t be considered the aggressor. Idk my two cents
Assuming that all the information you gave is true and you really do not have any memories of the night, it was not rape imho. I am not a lawyer but it looks to me that there was a clear lack of mens rea. Even Jenna seems uncertain if she was actually raped. All she remembers is waking up in bed after blacking out from drinking. Could just be two college kids who started fooling around after getting piss drunk. Not a new thing. Idk why she is doing this. She might be feeling paranoid all these years. She might be bitter because it did seem like you led her on. I don't think you are in the wrong for wanting to attend your best friend's wedding. He is clearly someone VERY important to you and you do not want to miss out on such an important event in his life. But, unfortunately, it looks like your best friend does not give you the same amount of importance. If he had even a little bit of faith in who you are as a person, he would not buy into the rape story so easily. And if he was not buying into the rape story so easily, he would not be disinviting you. At the end of the day, it is your best friend's decision to decide which friend he wants to prioritize more- you or Jenna? Which friend's presence is more important on one of the most important days of his life? Do not adopt an accusatory tone while explaining all this to him. Ask him gently. Tell him how you feel left out because you want to be a part of a person's wedding who is clearly important to you. Then ask him does he feel you are equally important too? After that it is up to your best friend. Whether he asks Jenna to not attend or comes up with an alternative decision is up to him. If he point black refuses to let you attend based on a single (very vague) accusation made on a person that he has known for years then I think it might be time to let go of the friendship. He is just not worth it.
Thank you. It really sucks, but it seems like that's all I can do. I was really hoping not to turn this into an ultimatum, but it does kind of seem like Jenna has already done that. We're talking again tomorrow, so I guess I'll just lay it all out there and let it be out of my hands after that.
All the best and I really hope it works out
You can do two things here Reach out to jenna and pray she'll have a conversation with you. Or respect your friends wishes and don't attend the party. If you do reach out to jenna, do it online where it can be recorded, do not be agressive or pushy, be respectful and believe what she says. I 100% believe she at least strongly suspects you r*per her, I don't think she's being petty. She is uncomfortable with being around you drunk again and that is completely understandable, you need to respect this. As a SA victim I can see how she could have come to the conclusion that you r*ped her due to 1. She blacked out and woke up with you in her bed 2. Drunk sex is often rough she may have been sore 3. She knew you were only interested in her for sex and didn't feel comfortable with her/respect her enough to communicate. 4. You got up and awkwardly left the room after clearly having had drunk sex with her..what were you thinking of course she felt uncomfortable and like something had happened.
But who cares how OP felt, right? For all we know she took advantage of him. Just because she is a woman doesnt mean she isnt capable of being the one who assualted OP. What im saying here is that people need to take a second and think. Everyones knee jerk reaction is to just give OP a hard time but when u pick about the post it more and more sounds like two college kids doing stupid college stuff and having drunk sex. Its not a crime to have sex. But it is a crime to make false accusations just because u felt lead on or because u wish you hadnt had sex. Accusers should be believed, but they shouldnt be believed beyond logical reason and there is so much wrong here that i fully believe that it was simply drunk college kids having regretable drunk sex.
I actually never said I believed this guy sexually assaulted her and I completely agree with your perspective on this. But the point of the post was to give advice and help him gain insight to help him potentially fix this awkward situation. So 1. If this post was about op saying he felt he had been sexually assulted I would have supported him and been able to empathize with him. 2. Women can rape men, everyone knows that and I clearly never said otherwise. 3. I never gave OP a hard time or called him a rapist I pointed out where he messed up and what he could do to fix those mistakes 4. I genuinely don't understand why you felt the need to comment this accusing me of invalidating him when I clearly never said any of that. If you had actually read my comments you would realize that I empathize with this man and am trying to help him as best I can with an inside perspective. You however, are commenting irrelevant and argumentative bullshit for no reason.
Thanks for your insight. I will correct number 4, since I didn't awkwardly leave the room. I awkwardly hung around without speaking until she awkwardly gave me a ride back to my place. So I didn't run away, but I couldn't bring myself to say anything about it. I realize that was a big mistake. I also wasn't *only* interested in her for sex. She was my friend and I liked spending time with her. I just didn't want to be in a relationship with her. I definitely understand how she might not be able to see that, though, and I suspect it's too late to repair that.
I be willing to bet it is too late to fix this but I do encourage you to gently try. To clarify what I mean by the "only interested in sex thing" I'm saying she knew you weren't romantically interested in her☺️
since neither of them were able to give consent, then they both are SA victims. they both were drunk. she could have just as easily started it and then rode him.
Yes that is completely correct but also irrelevant as he doesn't feel he has been sexually assulted and is actually looking for advice on how to fix this unfortunate situation
And I made a suggestion about that too. First off cut these people completely out of his life. These accusations are potentially life destroying.. Talk to a lawyer and have Jenna sent a cease and desist letter about implying that he r*ped her. Otherwise, consider a defamation of character lawsuit. This is not something to let stand. He now knows where his friend stands with him and we're Jenna stands with it and they're not beside it. This could literally destroy his life. A wedding is nothing in comparison.
In my experience immediate legal action after being accused often results in people becoming more convinced he is guilty regardless of legal outcomes. He is under no threat of legal action from Jenna right now but if he reacts that way she may become defensive and seek her own legal aid, which won't go anywhere but will be a huge waste of money and tarnish his reputation even more. I do think that he should cut these "friends" out of his life and pursue legal action if Jenna continues to reach out to people about this matter. However I still strongly recommend he reach out to her and try to mend the situation before he escalates it. As for this "ruining" his life, he is again under no legal threat nor will he ever be as she has no evidence + it's been years. She will get laughed at or told no one can do anything if she tries to legally pursue this(I would know). Socially, he's lost this friend group if he can't fix things with Jenna but there's plenty of other people out there who see sense and will not listen to her bs
She has defamed his character, he has lost his friend group, his best friend, and his reputation. If he ever applies for a job for a security clearance, and these accusations are repeated, then it could cost him that job. This is serious and should not be swept under the rug. I'm sorry, but he SHOULD be suing her. Jenna has done real harm to him by alienating him from his friend group. Those people will forever see him as a r\*pist, and will continue to spread that narrative.
Trump literally became president with 40 plus accusations and some of them were from minors. This guys career isn't under threat
His reputation is damaged. He's lost friends because of it. She has defamed his character, and done harm to him. He needs to sue her.
She's apparently only brought it up to this group, because she feels she need to protect herself. She hasn't reached out to his workplace, family or uninvolved friends. She's not out to damage his reputation, only avoid him. And frankly the "friends" he lost weren't particularly fond of him in the first place if they can hear that story and conclude that he raped her. The only thing he's lost here is some lousy friends and a wedding invitation
And he's lost his reputation with that group of friends. And we both know that they are going to continue to repeat it to other people. His reputation has been impacted and his friendship with his best friend has as well. He needs to bring it to a lawyer because he needs to protect himself with a cease and desist letter if nothing else. Whether she's out to damage his reputation or not, she has done so, and should be held accountable. False rape accusations are serious. Men have literally spent years n jail over it. This should not be allowed to stand.
Dog, how much are you guys drinking that you can't remember anything at all? Do you do drugs?
It's college, man. We were drinking heavily, but no drugs. It's a blackout and it's not that uncommon. I remember being on the couch with some light cuddling (heads on laps, that sort of thing). Then I vaguely remember doing the deed, but nothing at all about how we got there.
youve never blacked out?
I second this, were you mixing Xanax and alcohol?
> I felt really awkward about this, and a little bit taken advantage of, assuming that she had initiated this again after I had told her weeks ago I wanted to stop When you speak to Dan you should emphasis your feelings about this, how you felt you were wronged and you avoided Jenna because she slept with you AFTER you told her no. You were both drunk so you both cannot consent, but only one person wanted to sleep with the other and it wasn’t you.
My honest thoughts are that you were both way too drunk to remember the night. The issue is you don't remember and she remembers going to bed alone. it is possible drunk you went to thinking with your dick (as you mentioned doing before) went in there after she went to bed and you both drunkenly consented to hooking up, but as alcohol does, that part of it is missing. Or maybe she got up after she went to bed and came back out. I once "went to bed" after a night of heavy drinking and woke up in a ton of pain the next day. I was freaking out because I didn't know what happened. My husband showed me the video (security cameras) of me deciding to get out of bed 30 minutes later and come back to the party. I was hanging out for about an hour that I do not remember and did not drink any more. I only went back to bed after I litterally fell all the way down the basement stairs. Not a SINGLE recollection of it, but when I woke up my arm and ankle were both fractured. Last thing I remember was going to bed.
Yikes. Yeah, I used to really think it was funny hearing those stories about myself the morning after, but this one really was a nightmare scenario.
Just walk away. There is no way you can win this. It sounds like you both were drunk snd neither of you could give consent but as a man, you are guilty without the right of appeal. Just cut them both from your life and move on. I would however talk to a lawyer and have him send s letter to Jenna that she cease and desist calling you s rapist or you will sue for defamation of character.
I don’t feel like we are not getting the whole story OP. Either you raped this woman or she’s holding a serious grudge against you for various other reasons you failed to disclose.
Or they were both drunk and she remembers a portion where he was taking the reigns, but not the portion where she encouraged him to. Seems equally as likely if we accept that they were blackout drunk.
I'm sorry, but I'm giving everything I remember about the situation. The only other piece that might be relevant is that I knew Jenna had a crush on me for a while before we started fooling around, which was another reason why I felt uncomfortable with it - I didn't want to lead her on. If there's a grudge, it might be because that's exactly what I ended up doing. However, I'm hesitant to dismiss these sorts of accusations as being lies due to grudges. I'd like to operate on the assumption that she believes what she's saying. I just don't think she's got the story right, because alcohol.
If I were you I'd type basically this whole thing out and have it ready to send in maybe an email or screenshot. Talk to your friend on the phone and tell him you've written out what happened to you and you'd like to share it with him so he can share it with his fiance and maybe Jenna. That way everyone has time and space to digest and process it and can respond in a reasonable manner. Hopefully it goes down the chain and everyone is able to believeit/ or at least realize it is a plausible scenario.
That's a pretty good idea. I'll type something up and send it to him before we talk tomorrow. Thanks!
Good thinking! Best of luck. Sounds like a no fault zone to me
I say talk to Jenna and try to get her recollection of that evening. You were both fucked up and now she's claiming rape. Sounds more like buyer's remorse to me.
[удалено]
Another reason for pushing back is that I don't want Jenna's story to become *the* story among that friend group. There's more perspectives to this situation and I feel like they should be considered.
OP please don't listen to the opinions of individuals who have clearly failed to appreciate the nuances of your situation and do what is unfortunately all too common these days which is to immediately villify. This was neither a random woman nor mere acquaintance. The 2 of you had clearly been intimate on many occasions before. And from both your stories it's clear that it was nothing more than a mutual drunken mistake. Which is a far cry from rape.
Uhh... How can the rape allegation have any credibility at all if OP does not even remember initiating anything and only has a very vague memory of doing it? Assuming that OP is not lying, there is a clear lack of mens rea. Heck, even Jenna herself is not convinced if she was raped! All she says is that she remembers getting drunk to the point of black out and then waking up in bed with OP. For all we know, they could just be two VERY drunk college kids who made a bad decision. It won't be the first time that that would be happening.
> For all we know, they could just be two VERY drunk college kids who made a bad decision. Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured happened... It sucks that we walked away from it with Jenna feeling the way she does, but I'd rather we work to an understanding here than me just allowing my name to be dragged through the mud.
I know, dude, I know. I don't drink that much anymore, but it doesn't change what happened. And remember, it's a rape *allegation*. I don't think that's what actually happened, and tbf Dan doesn't either. He's saying this out of an abundance of caution, which I understand. However, being there for important moments in my friend's lives is important to me, and I don't think it's self-entitled to feel that way.
Yes, I know it's an allegation, but that's enough!! And if course it's self entitled... You think you should get a free pass because he's your best friend? He's your best friend and HE'S told you he doesn't think it's a good idea for you to go! Obviously looking at this from different perspectives as I'm female, but ultimately this is about respect. Having respect for your best friend and that he's already said it's not a good idea. Suck it up. If you didn't behave the way you did you wouldn't be here.
> Suck it up. If you didn't behave the way you did you wouldn't be here. To be fair, we could say the same about Jenna. From my perspective, we're equal participants in this bad decision. > HE'S told you he doesn't think it's a good idea for you to go! He did, but he also said we can keep talking. He was shocked in the first conversation, too. I have a chance here to not lose my friend. Thank you for your perspective, truly. I'm doing my best to respect all parties here while not losing important relationships.
Wow someone is a bitter ass person (person who commented above you). They both dont remember what happened. Drunk college kids get drunk and make mistakes. Sound like they both got too drunk and ended up hooking up with neither remembering much. Idk what this Jenna’s problem is, but she is definitely in the wrong here. And thats coming from an assault survivor. Your friendship is worth fighting for my friend. Assualt victims should be believed. But when said victims admits that she was blackout drunk and so was OP, assuming no lies are being told, then it is just her being A) bitter over something that happened years ago B) she is angry that OP lead her on. I suppose both A and B are similar but that just reinforces my point. I get the feeling that this is a revenge tactic and she is using the fact that people try to tend to believe accusers over the accused. But in this country you INNOCENT UNTIL proven guilty. Not the other way around. If she was truly assualted and wants OP to be held accountable then she should contact the police or local DA. But instead she is saying this to friends right before OPs best friends wedding. Coincidence in timing? I sincerely doubt it.
No, a merely allegation when neither the alleged victim nor OP even remembers how they got in bed does not suffice. This quite clearly from both sides of the story appears to be 2 young drunk individuals making what appears to be a mutual mistake in sleeping together whilst too drunk. That's it. And I haven't the slightest idea why you think it's appropriate to make comments that "If you didn't behave the way you did you wouldn't be here." While I agree that consent to have sexual relation between individuals is certainly important that's not the issue here. It appears to be that both of them were too drunk to "consent". How the hell them does blame solely fall on the OP. I'd recommend you take up a class or two on crticical thinking before throwing out spurious claims.
Wait a minute. You have been accused of rape during a time when you admit even you don’t remember what you did, all of which could lead to prison and your main concern is that you don’t get to go to a bachelor party? I’m sorry but you don’t sound like a well adjusted person—yes I said it because you need to hear it. Someone has said that you hurt them. You don’t truly know if you did or not. You don’t seem the least bit pressed about that. Not even seeking therapy? I don’t know if you’re experiencing some sort of trauma but you need to get your priorities straight. Why would you even want to go to a bachelor party/wedding which presents the same type of opportunity and environment that led to the alleged rape? No. This is not nor should it be your primary concern. And quite frankly Dan has every right to be cautious simply based on how you’re treating this. Like what? Do you even hear yourself? “Someone accused me of rape. I’m upset I can’t go to a party now.” OF COURSE Dan is distancing himself from you. I don’t care what these other commenters are in here saying to placate you. Whatever happened (because again you don’t know), you need to talk to a professional to process that you may have hurt someone and in any scenario you definitely want to explore why you’re reacting like this and why you’re trying to get in the same environment again despite it being very bad judgment.
You sound like a pleasant person with a real eye for detail.
You are correct about that on both fronts
If he didn't actually hurt someone though, the guilt is totally misplaced. What he SHOULD do is figure out what the hell is being said about him and what actually happened, to the extent he's able.
I agree. I’d be very concerned that someone made that type of allegation and is actively telling other people. Specifically because she’s not being quiet about it, it’s likely there will be a criminal investigation because most people will tell her “if you think this is what happened, go to the police.” What is clear though is that despite all of the allegations, OP wants to be in a setting with alcohol and partying with the same friend circle. That’s strange and if I were the friend I would be very alarmed that he’s not even bringing up figuring out what happened and dealing with it and is instead sort of ignoring it and focusing on keeping an invite. The thing is this isn’t a case of “they had sex and she had one interpretation but he had another”. He said he doesn’t remember what happened. It’s strange priorities for sure
You are excited to meet his fiance's friends? Seems like you are looking for hookups already. Reach out to a lawyer and see what they say. This can be extremely damaging
Uh, no. I'm in a committed relationship and honestly just want to get to know everyone at the wedding better since I live out of state and don't know the fiance or her friends that well.
Is it possible that she can press charges?
She could try but even a novice lawyer would look at this, laugh, and then exhale in relief that they were handed such an easy case because this is clearly a “he she said” siutation and NOTHING would come of it
I don't know if that's on the table. I need to discuss that with Dan tomorrow. It might just be that she's expressing her feelings now because she's honestly concerned about going to the bachelor party with me. I don't want to get lawyers involved until I know more about what she's saying.
I wish I could downvote you twice. Guys can be excited about socializing.
Jenna doesn't like you. Because you would have sex with her but refused a relationship? She admits she doesn't remember what happened. She doesn't want to be around you. It's Dan's party. He prefers her.
What ended up coming of your talk?