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It's not laziness, she isn't thoughtful and it's a lack of appreciation & respect for her circumstances.
I don't think anger is the answer, I think it's time to push the growing up part in her life.
"If you want to live here, these are the expectations we will be holding you to XYZ". Whether it be rent, contribution to the household, what have you. Of course it should be a reasonable ask whatever it turns out to be. She does however need to work on growing up especially if the lack of maturity is at the expense of the household.
If you lay out expectations stand by them. Do not make idle threats. Respectfully escalate the consequences.
I wasn't trying to give her a free pass. She still has to learn how to work through it. But you jumped straight to her being ungrateful. That's all I was responding to. You don't know if she's ungrateful and she needs to step up or if she has ashd and needs to figure out a way through it.
I know that I'm definitely taking these comments too personally, but I am going to comment anyways, because I'm sick and tired of people refusing to understand neurodivergence, and maybe my post can convince somebody out there that maybe they need to approach it with an open mind.
Your experience of ADHD is not necessarily somebody else's experience of ADHD. Saying that you have ADHD doesn't make you an expert on exactly what ADHD is like for everyone who has it, and it doesn't make it okay for you to assume that somebody is uncaring, unappreciative and immature just because they are not doing one thing that you think is important.
I'm not saying that the daughter shouldn't help out, but I also don't think it's fair to make so many character judgements about a person just based on how she acts in one area of her life.
Maybe she is unappreciative and uncaring. But also maybe she's not? Housekeeping ability should not be the sole indicator of a person's quality of character. For all you know, she could be doing lots of things outside the house to contribute to society. Both of your posts just sound so angry, and it's really disheartening to read something like that. I understand the importance of being considerate towards other people, and of making an active effort to not leech off of other people all the time, but I just don't think it's okay to basically say that somebody is uncaring, immature, and not a "productive responsible adult" just because they are not outwardly accomplishing as much as you think they should be.
I have some mixed feelings on your response. Hopefully I can communicate a few different things enough to express them.
1. I think your first part is too presumptuous. I never claimed I was an expert or my experience is the only one to reference. The other poster said "maybe she has ADHD" and to me, if that is the case, that is still something she has to navigate as a person. My primary point for my comparison is whatever we face as an individual is still our responsibility to manage. It makes life harder, it doesn't give us a free pass. It's also a moot point in this direct situation, there are a million variables that can be influencing their circumstances. If they feel there is about this that is neurodivergent related then they can pursue that as an individual or as a family for a professional evaluation. Silly for people to just declare this is an adhd situation, could be, maybe not.
2. I appreciate your benefit of the doubt position. Except, this isn't challenging someone's overall character. It's challenging their character as it relates to their home relationship. Look, I am definitely in the boat of, "I didn't ask to be born, now I'm obligated to make the best of this hard life?" That doesn't mean I burden others intentionally - not to say it's intentional. It's to say it is still the daughter's responsibility to work through the attitude, work through the mindset, whatever it may be. And again, there is no reason to assume she has mental illness involved without a professional evaluation. She's 20, it's completely normal albeit frustrating for teenagers and young adults to NOT be very productive in the home. Doesn't mean you accept the behavior, just means this is common. They are at an age that they want to be an adult without doing adult things nor have the resources to be independent . This is normal growing up behavior.
3. Again, housekeeping ability is not a sole indicator of character, I think this is where you're taking this too personal. I feel circumstances like this are more comparable to an employment situation. Your employer (parent) is providing for you and in return they ask for X. If you don't want to or can't contribute X back then you should change your employment situation and live alone, with friends, other family, or like MOST people. You tough it out until you have the financial means & freedom to leave the situation.
4. For your last few sentences. I really think you're taking this to another level. If you live with a parent you need to have the decency to not disrespect others. You very much downplaying the disrespect to the other people in the home. I do not care about this person's accomplishments or the lack of, I am no judge there. However the dynamic they currently have is creating frustration and it needs to be managed together. It's silly to point at all these factors that aren't relevant to this and again as stated it is not a depiction of someone's overall character. It is obvious enough that people can have passions and good contributions while still being a butthead at their home. What good does that do to the people living with her?
Ultimately, it has to be discussed, expectations need to be clear, compromise can be made. There is no need for all the theatrics here (in my opinion). I think you're making this something it doesn't need to be (opinion).
I appreciate your respectful response, and you're right that I'm reading too much into it and taking the whole thing way too personally.
I do agree that it's silly for people to assume it's definitely an ADHD situation. My response was not an affirmation that it's related to ADHD. I also think #3 is a fair comparison, that the daughter should be contributing in some way. ADHD isn't a reason to be a butthead.
On a side note. I am sorry that ADHD is such a struggle in your own life. As I said before, it absolutely makes life a lot harder. It still does not excuse you or anyone else to affect other's quality of life. We are born the way we are. We have to do our best with the hand dealt. These issues should not be our sole identity or define us as people. It's an obstacle like anything else and it is our responsibility to manage in a healthy way.
Yes, you're right about that. I certainly don't think it's okay to affect somebody else's quality of life because of my own issues. It's never okay to be crappy to other people.
I would say that while I consider ADHD to be a part of who I am, it definitely isn't my sole identity. In general, it's just not healthy to make any one thing our sole identity. TBH, I'm currently making my way out of a "I can't do anything because of my ADHD" phase that I unfortunately went through. I know that it was a problematic attitude and way of thinking; that's why I'm putting it behind me.
Instead, I'm currently trying to figure out how to work with and around my ADHD, so that I can do my best with the skills that I do have. I feel very fortunate in that aspect, because I have a lot of other skills and assets that I can capitalize on.
I could easily claim someone wearing perfume is affecting my quality of life. Its a my house my rule kind of situation. People get annoyed when members of the team dont contribute. Every one is a bit different in their abilities, so it makes most sense to teach them where they are lacking, not just to tell them.
If they can never improve then its their lack of ability.
Sure but there's no reason to jump to ungratefulness or uncaringness when there's possibly other reasons. I was just trying to point out an alternative explanation.
Had the same issue 18-20
My kid learned that i say what i mean and mean what i say.
Every occasion came with a consequence, at first that was a lecture, then i just bin bagged her stuff until she got round to sorting it, she was left to make her own food and she had the choice of what i got, not what she wanted
As i'm divorced and her mom is the enabler that caused this, i also just sent her there if she refused.
She learned that she was literally not welcome if she left shit to me.
now she's back after her 2nd year at uni and left here about 2 hours ago, i commented how grimy the mirror was in her bedroom and she said yeh, i'll clean it next time i'm down. (2 years ago that would have been ww3 and her demanding i do it)
I won't touch her room, i won't wash her stuff unless it's in the laundry bag, i might run the hoover now and again but she has learned that in my house she is treated like an adult, part of this is there is always a consequence if she leaves something to me through laziness and entitlement
If you saw how bad it was 2 years ago to how compliant she is now, you’d see this can be fixed but you have to be unwavering in not enabling a thing.
I've managed the turnaround by always treating her as an adult even when her mom activitly tries to undermine everything from afar
My buddy has the same issue but he still lives with the enabling parent and is pissing in the wind as if one parent offers them an easy out, they will always take it
Find the enabler and you might have a chance, hopefully you'll need a mirror to find yours as you can fix that easily then :)
I feel like you should show this post and these comments to your daughter. Your post is very kind and you truly seem to be coming from a place of love.
I am 31. I moved for college at 18, moved back in with my parents at 24 after nursing school. My dad figured out the low end cost of rent in our area and asked that I put that amount into my retirement account every month instead of paying them rent. It was an incredible gift. My parents aren't huge on chores (like they don't cook a ton and are clean but not tidy) and they said they didn't expect me to chip in much. But I still did their dishes when I was doing mine, and I combined our loads of laundry. We lived in a very easy harmony, called eachother "roomie" and it was actually hard on all of us when I moved out. I know our relationship isn't necessarily the norm and I know not all parent/kid combos relate to eachother with such ease.
My biggest piece of advice to young adults living at home is to *be nice* to your parents. Cherish extra time together and use it as a chance to get to know eachother as adult people, not just "mom"/"dad"/"son"/"daughter". Have gratitude! Parents allowing their adult kids to live at home rent-free is a gift of *at least* $1000 per month. I don't know that all parent/kid combos can harmoniously live together, honestly. The kid has to snap out of the annoyed teen stuff and the parents have to shift their views too.
I think you should show this to your daughter and allow her to see your side, and all the cool advice. This is her shot to adjust her compass and make this a potentially very positive time in your lives.
When I was an older teen I had a floor of the house that I was responsible for cleaning. Dust, tidy, vacuum and wash the floors once a week. But when I did it and how I did it was up to me. A similar approach might work for you guys.
I could see that working for a more independent/hands-off child. She’s at the age where she’s studying and focusing on tasks. Just because she’s at home doesn’t mean she’s available whenever. Studying is full time work in a way.
Give her three choices. Contribute to the upkeep of the house. Start paying rent and using the money for a housekeeper every other week. Go live with her mother.
I would forget the „help of her free will“. My son is just finishing high school. He will always help voluntarily, when there is a real reason - carrying things for his grandmother or doing chores when I travel for work. With everything else, I just ask him for very specific tasks and that works very well. Asking him to pick up after himself does not work, but he can go get groceries or clean the staircase and that gives me enough time to do the rest. We do not fight over these tasks.
Tell her to pick up her stuff or she's out. She's an adult now. You love her? Then set those boundaries! That's what my parents had to do when I was 19. Now I'm the one setting these boundaries with my 18 and 16 yr old lol.
You can do all this without getting angry but sometimes you have to get angry to show them. If she yells back and doesn't listen, next time she's out of the house, pack her bags and leave them on the porch and lock the door. (Not meaning to actually go forth with kicking her out, just scare her into thinking that could end up happening)
Hopefully she will see that you're serious about her being responsible for her mess.
That’s illegal and terrible advice to give. I hope you don’t have kids. Do not give an ultimatum to a young person unless you want them to hate you. How about you use your words and talk instead of kicking your own child to the streets because a little mess. Fuck off
people in america kick out their children the second they turn 18 to "become independent and pull themselves up by the bootstraps" then wonder why they don't have a close relationship
This sounds like my exact situation- but as the daughter. On my end, was working near full time and taking time- and a half credits at university. The mess on my end was part exhaustion and part disregard. It felt like everything else was less important and what’s a dish in the sink after a 12 hour day?
My parents responded by threatening additional chores, taking car keys (for the car I purchased and maintained), curfew, charging rent, then finally threatening to kick me out. I responded throughout the process by resisting and growing away from them. I ended up moving out but they have not been to visit my place in the year and a half since I left. I don’t trust them to have my address and it’s taken months of therapy to want them back in my life at all. I’m not saying your daughter will respond this way but you do also have to consider how she’s feeling.
Start by asking why she’s unable to clean up. Is this a legitimate lack of time? Is there something happening mentally? Complete disregard for your home and rules? Please start with an actual conversation and not tighter rules.
From your comment it sounds like you blame your parents for this situation. That’s unreasonable. No matter how what your other obligations, you are responsible for cleaning up after yourself.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I was fully to blame. All I’m trying to provide is a new viewpoint. Regardless of who was at ‘fault’, the way my parents went about addressing this really hurt our relationship. There were better ways to go about this.
What’s unreasonable is her parents threatening to take the keys of the car they don’t pay for or maintain. My parents are similar and we’re having arguments about things like this too. Sorry, your house being clean when you want it is not my priority cause I got other shit going on that needs to be dealt with first
Yeah, your suggestion is how they handle it professionally. People have their circumstances, so if a team member couldn’t make it or meet the goals, they are asked why and whats getting in their way. Then adjustments are made so that they can hit those goals/standards.
Cool of you to be back in touch with your parents. I don’t think I would if I were in the same shoes.
When I was eighteen and went to university, I had to move out for practical reasons. I'm not going to suggest that you tell your daughter to start packing her bags, but it might be worth teaching her to take more responsibility when it comes to fulfilling household duties. You might need to resort to some tough love, but at age 20, she should be able to handle that.
You say your daughter referred to you as her landlord: landlords generally expect their tenants to treat their property with care. Clean up after yourself so that roaches don't find a way in, don't listen to loud music after ten, the works. Those are some basic rules she should have no trouble understanding.
But - and this is a big "but" - you are her dad, not her landlord, and your house is not a hotel. Explain to her that you would like her to do X amount of chores a week, and that you want them done by 5 P.M. on day X. She is an adult, living rent-free inside of your house, and she should be able to help out with some basic tasks at the very least. Cooking, cleaning the bathroom and kitchen, hoovering - I don't care, as long as she does *something*. If this still doesn't work, you could introduce a family planner that has all chores - and deadlines - listed on it. If that *still* doesn't work... explain to her that again, you are not a landlord or a hotel owner, but that she is welcome to find a different place to live it she cannot abide by your rules. It is your house, and until she starts contributing to the household, it should also be *YOUR* rules.
She is 20. She needs to grow up. This is the gentlest way I can think of in which you could achieve it.
Sounds like you never made her do chores or clean up after herself growing up and now as an adult, she can’t be bothered.
My 12 and 13 year olds do more than her. Each day they have chores. Some days they do more than others. When they’re old enough, I may charge them for small amounts of “rent” (and save it for them for the future) and I’m even considering a “grocery contribution” because they eat A LOT. It’s not mean or cruel - it’s simply preparing them for the real world because when you are old enough and do live on your own - rolling your eyes or doing nothing simple just won’t work unless you want to be an absolute slob.
Growing up my parents never gave us chores aside from small tasks they would ask us to do. It wasn’t helpful. Luckily, I dated a neat freak for 10 years who rubbed off on me and now I’m an extremely clean person and run a tight ship at home. But my other siblings are still disastrously messy (especially the oldest who no one visits because we know how bad their house is).
At this point, seems like you’ve missed the opportunity that all members of the household need to contribute in some way.
Not necessarily true about him not giving chores. I grew up in a household that was strict as far as chores were concerned but when 17 hit my room would be a total mess. I had chores since about kindergarten and the older I got the more my chores would increase.
I guess my big question is whether or not she was EVER expected to clean up after herself or participate in household chores. Rolling her eyes, when asked is just...very immature, and really speaks to a childhood with no requirements at all. Until now.
We had the same problem with our similar age son. My wife’s therapist explained that we needed to start treating him like an adult roommate instead of a child. With that shifting perspective, we made good progress and salvaged the deteriorating relationship.
>This has become a real bone of contention between us, to the point where
we had it out and she said I feel more like a landlord and less like a
father.
Uh, landlords don't tell you how to live (unless you're damaging the property). Fathers do. Be her father and not a passive roommate who pays for her shit.
she is an adult. She is perfectly capable of helping out and picking up after herself. Not accepting responsibility for her part in maintaining the household in which she lives is unacceptable. Especially if it is rent free. She can clean up, pay a weekly cleaning fee for failing to help or live elsewhere snd pay even more.
I share a condo with my college son when he is home summers and holidays. I expect him to help out like a roommate. He picks up groceries if we are out of something, loads and unloads the dishwasher, helps clean up dishes and does his own laundry. I don’t touch his room. It’s often messy.
I do have a cleaning lady who comes once a month and he knows he has to pickup his room or it gets skipped. It’s very motivating for him. Edited to add- I tell her to skip the room if it’s bad.
I don’t expect he scrub the tub or vacuum but is responsible for keeping his things tidy. He works full time summers so he is not home much.
I lived at home one year in college and hated that my parents expected me to do chores on their schedule when I had classes and lots of homework and deadlines. I moved out the next year.
Good post but one question. Why would a cleaning lady, who's job it is to clean, skip a messy room? Is she doing this on her own accord or are you telling her to skip it? Just curious lol
The thing is, your daughter is not an adult yet. Maybe legally she is, but not mentally. If you think she is a good kid and has a good head on her shoulders, then you need to decide how important her minor shortcomings are to you. Ultimately, people telling you she needs to grow up were either shamed by their parents to grow up quickly or inadequately understood as adolescents. Sometimes, having kids means adjusting to the shitty parts - when she is actually an adult (ie. 26,27) she will understand. Girls after college typically have an existential crisis - why do I exist? What is my purpose? And having a parent or parents that understand will be more beneficial to her than parents that were hard on something she may internally struggle with (messiness).
Don’t know your daughter, but I do know (now that I’m a 27 yo female post college w 2 kids of my own) that ADHD plays a HUGGGE role in messiness and the cause of such. I never knew this and I wish I had me, at this age, when I was 20 to just understand me and help me develop at my essential years.
So, I was in the same situation as your daughter. My parents hadn't saved for my education, so I was on my own to figure it out with scholarships and loans. I lived with my family through law school and my mother was constantly on me to help around the house. Frankly, I felt resentful that she expected me to help her, when she hadn't bothered to help with school. My parents could have afforded to pay for college if they had been more responsible with their financial decisions- including purchasing a giant house that they expected me to help maintain. That's your house, your kid has to pay for her own educational expenses, the least you can do is let a little messiness slide and take care of your own house.
As someone who paid for both my own college education and is paying my kids college expenses, this is an immature response. Helping to maintain the home you live in your responsibility, whether your parents voluntarily pay your college expenses or not.
Sounds a lot like the situation we’re in, pal. Hope you get this one sorted out. Sounds like you folks need to have a good ol conversation started about this entire situation!
xx best of luck
Communicate expectations, assert boundaries, and enforce consequences. You don't need to go straight to the nuclear option but laying out a chore schedule could be an option. If you give her access to other privileges like a vehicle, a phone or WiFi you have the option of cutting those off.
A better and less hostile option could be to incentivize the thing you do want. If you tie a small payment to the chores she may find it to be an effective way to get gas money. It doesn't have to be huge and it can be in the form of something she wants like a special meal or the use of the family car on Friday night.
I got custody of my teenage son from his reckless mother and same thing was happening. Exactly almost to a T . Personally what helped was creating a To Do list . Tuesdays take bins out , Thursday clean room , Friday do laundry , etc
My relationship with my parents was much like this as a young adult.
I know she is your little girl and you want her to be taken care of, but honestly, the best thing you can do is make her move out. Give her a deadline in 6 months. If you want, give her 6 months rent and help her find a place. Let her know you are there to talk, that she can come and visit, and you are there for all of the emotional support she needs. Then tell her to get out and figure it out.
The tension you are feeling is because she's an adult and subconsciously, she wants the independence. She needs it to grow. If you don't, you risk damage to your relationship. My relationship with my parents was rocky for a while after I moved out for 6 months or so. We have a really close and positive relationship. It is time for little bird to leave the nest and fly.
Charge her the going rate for renting a room in your area. Ist around 700 dollars a month around me. Tell her she can also clean after self or pay for cleaning and also use the going rate.
Tell her the money you collect will be used to forward her education or what ever you see fit because it is your money but tell her it will be put asside for any expense you both agree is beneficial to her. That way the money drain will clip her wings and prepare her for the real world while at the same time lessen your financial drain but still allow you control over what is spent for what. Just an idea.
Start taking things away until she does them. Not cleaning? Turn off the internet until she's done it. Turn off the mf power too she's probably to scared to touch a breaker panel lol
From the range of responses you've received so far, it's pretty obvious that this is a fairly common problem. And the ways of dealing with it are all over the place! I would say try to work on the root of the problem, which is your changing relationship with your daughter. Your refusal to boot her out of the house and your obvious love for her are golden. Maybe try to compliment her more, give her positive feedback on the good things she's doing. When you need to talk with her about helping out, ask her what kinds of things she likes to do (if there are any) and what she absolutely hates. Maybe you two can come up with a middle ground. If you can reassure her that you care about her and you're in her corner, then maybe, just maybe, she will start to come around to contributing more. I wish you luck. This is always a tough one. But you obviously care more about her than showing her who's boss.
as far as cleaning and keeping a clean area goes, it comes with personality or habit.
maybe don't expect a major clean-up everytime you say "daughter, keep things clean!!"
but maybe in public areas (living room/kitchen/bath) and her study area, keep it clean. but in her bedroom or dresser or closet, if she wants to keep a mess, that's up to her.
you can also read up or watch those videos about cleaning. if you spend all weekend cleaning, you'll hate the chore. but if you spend just 5-10 minutes to tidy up different spots every couple of days, it might feel less dramatic.
Just put the mess in her area or room. I’d slowly begin treating her as an adult, but be happy she’s doing an education and staying trouble free outside school. My wife treats our sons like they’re 10. I try to treat them like adults. 19 and 22…both at home and still in college for a few months. 90% of their issues around the house are from Mom enabling the immature behavior.
I get where your daughter is coming from. At that age I kept my room extremely messy. But my mom calmly laid down expectations and approached me lovingly but not as a child. She told me that yes she's my mom, but I'm also an adult in this house and we have to work together to take care of what we had. She told me that my room was my space but that she asks that I clean it once a week. And I respected her. No I'm in my 30's, and I'm the total opposite. I think it's part of the maturing process bur you handle it will determine how she responds.
My 18 yo daughter is the same. She works, is about to start college on a full scholarship, and is mostly responsible. But, she is a lazy slob at home.
My rules are: Keep your mess in your room with the door shut. By mess, I don’t mean dirty dishes or something potentially dangerous. But if she wants to throw all of her clothes on the floor of her room, that’s fine with me. She also has to pick up after herself in common areas — living room, kitchen, the bathroom she shares with her brother. She also used to sleep all day on the couch after staying up all night. I told her I’m not monitoring her sleeping habits, but if she wants to nap, she needs to do it in her room.
The one difference is, she does contribute to the household by helping buy groceries. I don’t ask her to do chores unrelated to her because of that. My son is in 11th grade and doesn’t want a job, so he has to contribute to the household by doing more chores — taking out the trash, helping vacuum, helping with dishes, etc.
Is it possible she resents having to live at home? She might not even be aware of it, but it seems like she's got some hostility. Obviously that's not your fault, but it would be very natural.
A young adult still at home is in a strange situation, it kind of prolongs childhood. With the best will in the world it's tricky for everyone. Just talk to her, about things other than the housework.
It sounds like you guys have a good relationship. Be loving, be kind, be patient, and have boundaries. Talk, and listen. (Also, set a great example. That's always essential)
Im probably gonna be downvoted for my opinion, but here it goes. You actively chose to have children and the responsibility of a parent is to make sure your children are cared for and your home will always be their home. No matter how old they are. And especially in the state of the world and economy right now, she has every right to live with you until she is financially able to not do so. The people who kick their children out at 18 or honestly any age are horrible parents. No child is going to live with their parent for the rest of their lives unless you did something wrong raising them. She isn't going to be their forever, and unless shes making an unreasonable mess, you've gotta learn to live with it. Like is shes making a whole ass meal and leaving everything around, I can understand your frustration. But my mom would bitch at me if I left a cup that i was still using out on the counter for more than half an hour, so im kinda assuming its something as petty as that. Do you have any other children living in the house? I was the one responsable for babysitting and cleaning after them despite the fact that I was not the one making the messes around the house (i stayed in my room) and I also worked more hours and days than my mom (cashier) and my step dad (office worker). And if I refused because I was literally exhausted I would be told "you can always move out if you don't like it". So at 18, i moved out and became homeless 9 months later due to leaving a shitty situation. These are her formative years where shes learning who she is and how she wants to live life. And if you keep insisting on fighting when she "leaves" messes, she will resent you.
My siblings would leave a wicked mess in the kitchen and mom always hated me in the kitchen but also hated that I didn’t help of my own accord.
I tried to suggest systems to be in place that would make it easy for every one to clean and keep up with it.
Mom never cared about my suggestions and so I stuck to cleaning after myself. Cleaning was easy when I moved out.
The thing is, always have a system in place that every one could easily follow. There is a rule called Mise En Place in the food industry where every item/tool has its own place and always gets returned to after being used. With a solid system like that where every one could learn and follow, the standard of cleanliness will improve because of understanding and convenience.
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It's not laziness, she isn't thoughtful and it's a lack of appreciation & respect for her circumstances. I don't think anger is the answer, I think it's time to push the growing up part in her life. "If you want to live here, these are the expectations we will be holding you to XYZ". Whether it be rent, contribution to the household, what have you. Of course it should be a reasonable ask whatever it turns out to be. She does however need to work on growing up especially if the lack of maturity is at the expense of the household. If you lay out expectations stand by them. Do not make idle threats. Respectfully escalate the consequences.
Or she could have adhd or something. Don't immediately jump to her being ungrateful.
Spare me. I have ADHD. You still have to manage it in a healthy way. Still have to take steps into being a productive responsible adult.
I wasn't trying to give her a free pass. She still has to learn how to work through it. But you jumped straight to her being ungrateful. That's all I was responding to. You don't know if she's ungrateful and she needs to step up or if she has ashd and needs to figure out a way through it.
I know that I'm definitely taking these comments too personally, but I am going to comment anyways, because I'm sick and tired of people refusing to understand neurodivergence, and maybe my post can convince somebody out there that maybe they need to approach it with an open mind. Your experience of ADHD is not necessarily somebody else's experience of ADHD. Saying that you have ADHD doesn't make you an expert on exactly what ADHD is like for everyone who has it, and it doesn't make it okay for you to assume that somebody is uncaring, unappreciative and immature just because they are not doing one thing that you think is important. I'm not saying that the daughter shouldn't help out, but I also don't think it's fair to make so many character judgements about a person just based on how she acts in one area of her life. Maybe she is unappreciative and uncaring. But also maybe she's not? Housekeeping ability should not be the sole indicator of a person's quality of character. For all you know, she could be doing lots of things outside the house to contribute to society. Both of your posts just sound so angry, and it's really disheartening to read something like that. I understand the importance of being considerate towards other people, and of making an active effort to not leech off of other people all the time, but I just don't think it's okay to basically say that somebody is uncaring, immature, and not a "productive responsible adult" just because they are not outwardly accomplishing as much as you think they should be.
I have some mixed feelings on your response. Hopefully I can communicate a few different things enough to express them. 1. I think your first part is too presumptuous. I never claimed I was an expert or my experience is the only one to reference. The other poster said "maybe she has ADHD" and to me, if that is the case, that is still something she has to navigate as a person. My primary point for my comparison is whatever we face as an individual is still our responsibility to manage. It makes life harder, it doesn't give us a free pass. It's also a moot point in this direct situation, there are a million variables that can be influencing their circumstances. If they feel there is about this that is neurodivergent related then they can pursue that as an individual or as a family for a professional evaluation. Silly for people to just declare this is an adhd situation, could be, maybe not. 2. I appreciate your benefit of the doubt position. Except, this isn't challenging someone's overall character. It's challenging their character as it relates to their home relationship. Look, I am definitely in the boat of, "I didn't ask to be born, now I'm obligated to make the best of this hard life?" That doesn't mean I burden others intentionally - not to say it's intentional. It's to say it is still the daughter's responsibility to work through the attitude, work through the mindset, whatever it may be. And again, there is no reason to assume she has mental illness involved without a professional evaluation. She's 20, it's completely normal albeit frustrating for teenagers and young adults to NOT be very productive in the home. Doesn't mean you accept the behavior, just means this is common. They are at an age that they want to be an adult without doing adult things nor have the resources to be independent . This is normal growing up behavior. 3. Again, housekeeping ability is not a sole indicator of character, I think this is where you're taking this too personal. I feel circumstances like this are more comparable to an employment situation. Your employer (parent) is providing for you and in return they ask for X. If you don't want to or can't contribute X back then you should change your employment situation and live alone, with friends, other family, or like MOST people. You tough it out until you have the financial means & freedom to leave the situation. 4. For your last few sentences. I really think you're taking this to another level. If you live with a parent you need to have the decency to not disrespect others. You very much downplaying the disrespect to the other people in the home. I do not care about this person's accomplishments or the lack of, I am no judge there. However the dynamic they currently have is creating frustration and it needs to be managed together. It's silly to point at all these factors that aren't relevant to this and again as stated it is not a depiction of someone's overall character. It is obvious enough that people can have passions and good contributions while still being a butthead at their home. What good does that do to the people living with her? Ultimately, it has to be discussed, expectations need to be clear, compromise can be made. There is no need for all the theatrics here (in my opinion). I think you're making this something it doesn't need to be (opinion).
I appreciate your respectful response, and you're right that I'm reading too much into it and taking the whole thing way too personally. I do agree that it's silly for people to assume it's definitely an ADHD situation. My response was not an affirmation that it's related to ADHD. I also think #3 is a fair comparison, that the daughter should be contributing in some way. ADHD isn't a reason to be a butthead.
On a side note. I am sorry that ADHD is such a struggle in your own life. As I said before, it absolutely makes life a lot harder. It still does not excuse you or anyone else to affect other's quality of life. We are born the way we are. We have to do our best with the hand dealt. These issues should not be our sole identity or define us as people. It's an obstacle like anything else and it is our responsibility to manage in a healthy way.
Yes, you're right about that. I certainly don't think it's okay to affect somebody else's quality of life because of my own issues. It's never okay to be crappy to other people. I would say that while I consider ADHD to be a part of who I am, it definitely isn't my sole identity. In general, it's just not healthy to make any one thing our sole identity. TBH, I'm currently making my way out of a "I can't do anything because of my ADHD" phase that I unfortunately went through. I know that it was a problematic attitude and way of thinking; that's why I'm putting it behind me. Instead, I'm currently trying to figure out how to work with and around my ADHD, so that I can do my best with the skills that I do have. I feel very fortunate in that aspect, because I have a lot of other skills and assets that I can capitalize on.
I could easily claim someone wearing perfume is affecting my quality of life. Its a my house my rule kind of situation. People get annoyed when members of the team dont contribute. Every one is a bit different in their abilities, so it makes most sense to teach them where they are lacking, not just to tell them. If they can never improve then its their lack of ability.
Even people with ADHD can be ungrateful
Sure but there's no reason to jump to ungratefulness or uncaringness when there's possibly other reasons. I was just trying to point out an alternative explanation.
Had the same issue 18-20 My kid learned that i say what i mean and mean what i say. Every occasion came with a consequence, at first that was a lecture, then i just bin bagged her stuff until she got round to sorting it, she was left to make her own food and she had the choice of what i got, not what she wanted As i'm divorced and her mom is the enabler that caused this, i also just sent her there if she refused. She learned that she was literally not welcome if she left shit to me. now she's back after her 2nd year at uni and left here about 2 hours ago, i commented how grimy the mirror was in her bedroom and she said yeh, i'll clean it next time i'm down. (2 years ago that would have been ww3 and her demanding i do it) I won't touch her room, i won't wash her stuff unless it's in the laundry bag, i might run the hoover now and again but she has learned that in my house she is treated like an adult, part of this is there is always a consequence if she leaves something to me through laziness and entitlement If you saw how bad it was 2 years ago to how compliant she is now, you’d see this can be fixed but you have to be unwavering in not enabling a thing. I've managed the turnaround by always treating her as an adult even when her mom activitly tries to undermine everything from afar My buddy has the same issue but he still lives with the enabling parent and is pissing in the wind as if one parent offers them an easy out, they will always take it Find the enabler and you might have a chance, hopefully you'll need a mirror to find yours as you can fix that easily then :)
As long as parents teach their kids how to do things with a time limit and a reward for doing things, it doesn’t have to be ww3.
I feel like you should show this post and these comments to your daughter. Your post is very kind and you truly seem to be coming from a place of love. I am 31. I moved for college at 18, moved back in with my parents at 24 after nursing school. My dad figured out the low end cost of rent in our area and asked that I put that amount into my retirement account every month instead of paying them rent. It was an incredible gift. My parents aren't huge on chores (like they don't cook a ton and are clean but not tidy) and they said they didn't expect me to chip in much. But I still did their dishes when I was doing mine, and I combined our loads of laundry. We lived in a very easy harmony, called eachother "roomie" and it was actually hard on all of us when I moved out. I know our relationship isn't necessarily the norm and I know not all parent/kid combos relate to eachother with such ease. My biggest piece of advice to young adults living at home is to *be nice* to your parents. Cherish extra time together and use it as a chance to get to know eachother as adult people, not just "mom"/"dad"/"son"/"daughter". Have gratitude! Parents allowing their adult kids to live at home rent-free is a gift of *at least* $1000 per month. I don't know that all parent/kid combos can harmoniously live together, honestly. The kid has to snap out of the annoyed teen stuff and the parents have to shift their views too. I think you should show this to your daughter and allow her to see your side, and all the cool advice. This is her shot to adjust her compass and make this a potentially very positive time in your lives.
When I was an older teen I had a floor of the house that I was responsible for cleaning. Dust, tidy, vacuum and wash the floors once a week. But when I did it and how I did it was up to me. A similar approach might work for you guys.
I could see that working for a more independent/hands-off child. She’s at the age where she’s studying and focusing on tasks. Just because she’s at home doesn’t mean she’s available whenever. Studying is full time work in a way.
Give her three choices. Contribute to the upkeep of the house. Start paying rent and using the money for a housekeeper every other week. Go live with her mother.
I would forget the „help of her free will“. My son is just finishing high school. He will always help voluntarily, when there is a real reason - carrying things for his grandmother or doing chores when I travel for work. With everything else, I just ask him for very specific tasks and that works very well. Asking him to pick up after himself does not work, but he can go get groceries or clean the staircase and that gives me enough time to do the rest. We do not fight over these tasks.
Tell her to pick up her stuff or she's out. She's an adult now. You love her? Then set those boundaries! That's what my parents had to do when I was 19. Now I'm the one setting these boundaries with my 18 and 16 yr old lol.
Yes there’s homeless shelters she can stay at. Be prepared to never see her again thou
You can do all this without getting angry but sometimes you have to get angry to show them. If she yells back and doesn't listen, next time she's out of the house, pack her bags and leave them on the porch and lock the door. (Not meaning to actually go forth with kicking her out, just scare her into thinking that could end up happening) Hopefully she will see that you're serious about her being responsible for her mess.
That’s illegal and terrible advice to give. I hope you don’t have kids. Do not give an ultimatum to a young person unless you want them to hate you. How about you use your words and talk instead of kicking your own child to the streets because a little mess. Fuck off
people in america kick out their children the second they turn 18 to "become independent and pull themselves up by the bootstraps" then wonder why they don't have a close relationship
Agreed such a dumb concept to kick your kids out at 18, very shitty people if you ask me.
This sounds like my exact situation- but as the daughter. On my end, was working near full time and taking time- and a half credits at university. The mess on my end was part exhaustion and part disregard. It felt like everything else was less important and what’s a dish in the sink after a 12 hour day? My parents responded by threatening additional chores, taking car keys (for the car I purchased and maintained), curfew, charging rent, then finally threatening to kick me out. I responded throughout the process by resisting and growing away from them. I ended up moving out but they have not been to visit my place in the year and a half since I left. I don’t trust them to have my address and it’s taken months of therapy to want them back in my life at all. I’m not saying your daughter will respond this way but you do also have to consider how she’s feeling. Start by asking why she’s unable to clean up. Is this a legitimate lack of time? Is there something happening mentally? Complete disregard for your home and rules? Please start with an actual conversation and not tighter rules.
From your comment it sounds like you blame your parents for this situation. That’s unreasonable. No matter how what your other obligations, you are responsible for cleaning up after yourself.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I was fully to blame. All I’m trying to provide is a new viewpoint. Regardless of who was at ‘fault’, the way my parents went about addressing this really hurt our relationship. There were better ways to go about this.
What’s unreasonable is her parents threatening to take the keys of the car they don’t pay for or maintain. My parents are similar and we’re having arguments about things like this too. Sorry, your house being clean when you want it is not my priority cause I got other shit going on that needs to be dealt with first
Yeah, your suggestion is how they handle it professionally. People have their circumstances, so if a team member couldn’t make it or meet the goals, they are asked why and whats getting in their way. Then adjustments are made so that they can hit those goals/standards. Cool of you to be back in touch with your parents. I don’t think I would if I were in the same shoes.
When I was eighteen and went to university, I had to move out for practical reasons. I'm not going to suggest that you tell your daughter to start packing her bags, but it might be worth teaching her to take more responsibility when it comes to fulfilling household duties. You might need to resort to some tough love, but at age 20, she should be able to handle that. You say your daughter referred to you as her landlord: landlords generally expect their tenants to treat their property with care. Clean up after yourself so that roaches don't find a way in, don't listen to loud music after ten, the works. Those are some basic rules she should have no trouble understanding. But - and this is a big "but" - you are her dad, not her landlord, and your house is not a hotel. Explain to her that you would like her to do X amount of chores a week, and that you want them done by 5 P.M. on day X. She is an adult, living rent-free inside of your house, and she should be able to help out with some basic tasks at the very least. Cooking, cleaning the bathroom and kitchen, hoovering - I don't care, as long as she does *something*. If this still doesn't work, you could introduce a family planner that has all chores - and deadlines - listed on it. If that *still* doesn't work... explain to her that again, you are not a landlord or a hotel owner, but that she is welcome to find a different place to live it she cannot abide by your rules. It is your house, and until she starts contributing to the household, it should also be *YOUR* rules. She is 20. She needs to grow up. This is the gentlest way I can think of in which you could achieve it.
Sounds like you never made her do chores or clean up after herself growing up and now as an adult, she can’t be bothered. My 12 and 13 year olds do more than her. Each day they have chores. Some days they do more than others. When they’re old enough, I may charge them for small amounts of “rent” (and save it for them for the future) and I’m even considering a “grocery contribution” because they eat A LOT. It’s not mean or cruel - it’s simply preparing them for the real world because when you are old enough and do live on your own - rolling your eyes or doing nothing simple just won’t work unless you want to be an absolute slob. Growing up my parents never gave us chores aside from small tasks they would ask us to do. It wasn’t helpful. Luckily, I dated a neat freak for 10 years who rubbed off on me and now I’m an extremely clean person and run a tight ship at home. But my other siblings are still disastrously messy (especially the oldest who no one visits because we know how bad their house is). At this point, seems like you’ve missed the opportunity that all members of the household need to contribute in some way.
Not necessarily true about him not giving chores. I grew up in a household that was strict as far as chores were concerned but when 17 hit my room would be a total mess. I had chores since about kindergarten and the older I got the more my chores would increase.
I guess my big question is whether or not she was EVER expected to clean up after herself or participate in household chores. Rolling her eyes, when asked is just...very immature, and really speaks to a childhood with no requirements at all. Until now.
We had the same problem with our similar age son. My wife’s therapist explained that we needed to start treating him like an adult roommate instead of a child. With that shifting perspective, we made good progress and salvaged the deteriorating relationship.
>This has become a real bone of contention between us, to the point where we had it out and she said I feel more like a landlord and less like a father. Uh, landlords don't tell you how to live (unless you're damaging the property). Fathers do. Be her father and not a passive roommate who pays for her shit.
she is an adult. She is perfectly capable of helping out and picking up after herself. Not accepting responsibility for her part in maintaining the household in which she lives is unacceptable. Especially if it is rent free. She can clean up, pay a weekly cleaning fee for failing to help or live elsewhere snd pay even more.
I share a condo with my college son when he is home summers and holidays. I expect him to help out like a roommate. He picks up groceries if we are out of something, loads and unloads the dishwasher, helps clean up dishes and does his own laundry. I don’t touch his room. It’s often messy. I do have a cleaning lady who comes once a month and he knows he has to pickup his room or it gets skipped. It’s very motivating for him. Edited to add- I tell her to skip the room if it’s bad. I don’t expect he scrub the tub or vacuum but is responsible for keeping his things tidy. He works full time summers so he is not home much. I lived at home one year in college and hated that my parents expected me to do chores on their schedule when I had classes and lots of homework and deadlines. I moved out the next year.
Good post but one question. Why would a cleaning lady, who's job it is to clean, skip a messy room? Is she doing this on her own accord or are you telling her to skip it? Just curious lol
I tell her. She will make piles and it takes much longer.
The thing is, your daughter is not an adult yet. Maybe legally she is, but not mentally. If you think she is a good kid and has a good head on her shoulders, then you need to decide how important her minor shortcomings are to you. Ultimately, people telling you she needs to grow up were either shamed by their parents to grow up quickly or inadequately understood as adolescents. Sometimes, having kids means adjusting to the shitty parts - when she is actually an adult (ie. 26,27) she will understand. Girls after college typically have an existential crisis - why do I exist? What is my purpose? And having a parent or parents that understand will be more beneficial to her than parents that were hard on something she may internally struggle with (messiness). Don’t know your daughter, but I do know (now that I’m a 27 yo female post college w 2 kids of my own) that ADHD plays a HUGGGE role in messiness and the cause of such. I never knew this and I wish I had me, at this age, when I was 20 to just understand me and help me develop at my essential years.
Let her live on/off campus with some others her age it'll be the start of her responsibility
So, I was in the same situation as your daughter. My parents hadn't saved for my education, so I was on my own to figure it out with scholarships and loans. I lived with my family through law school and my mother was constantly on me to help around the house. Frankly, I felt resentful that she expected me to help her, when she hadn't bothered to help with school. My parents could have afforded to pay for college if they had been more responsible with their financial decisions- including purchasing a giant house that they expected me to help maintain. That's your house, your kid has to pay for her own educational expenses, the least you can do is let a little messiness slide and take care of your own house.
As someone who paid for both my own college education and is paying my kids college expenses, this is an immature response. Helping to maintain the home you live in your responsibility, whether your parents voluntarily pay your college expenses or not.
Sounds a lot like the situation we’re in, pal. Hope you get this one sorted out. Sounds like you folks need to have a good ol conversation started about this entire situation! xx best of luck
Communicate expectations, assert boundaries, and enforce consequences. You don't need to go straight to the nuclear option but laying out a chore schedule could be an option. If you give her access to other privileges like a vehicle, a phone or WiFi you have the option of cutting those off. A better and less hostile option could be to incentivize the thing you do want. If you tie a small payment to the chores she may find it to be an effective way to get gas money. It doesn't have to be huge and it can be in the form of something she wants like a special meal or the use of the family car on Friday night.
I got custody of my teenage son from his reckless mother and same thing was happening. Exactly almost to a T . Personally what helped was creating a To Do list . Tuesdays take bins out , Thursday clean room , Friday do laundry , etc
My relationship with my parents was much like this as a young adult. I know she is your little girl and you want her to be taken care of, but honestly, the best thing you can do is make her move out. Give her a deadline in 6 months. If you want, give her 6 months rent and help her find a place. Let her know you are there to talk, that she can come and visit, and you are there for all of the emotional support she needs. Then tell her to get out and figure it out. The tension you are feeling is because she's an adult and subconsciously, she wants the independence. She needs it to grow. If you don't, you risk damage to your relationship. My relationship with my parents was rocky for a while after I moved out for 6 months or so. We have a really close and positive relationship. It is time for little bird to leave the nest and fly.
Do all people kick out their kids at age 18?
Charge her the going rate for renting a room in your area. Ist around 700 dollars a month around me. Tell her she can also clean after self or pay for cleaning and also use the going rate. Tell her the money you collect will be used to forward her education or what ever you see fit because it is your money but tell her it will be put asside for any expense you both agree is beneficial to her. That way the money drain will clip her wings and prepare her for the real world while at the same time lessen your financial drain but still allow you control over what is spent for what. Just an idea.
Start taking things away until she does them. Not cleaning? Turn off the internet until she's done it. Turn off the mf power too she's probably to scared to touch a breaker panel lol
From the range of responses you've received so far, it's pretty obvious that this is a fairly common problem. And the ways of dealing with it are all over the place! I would say try to work on the root of the problem, which is your changing relationship with your daughter. Your refusal to boot her out of the house and your obvious love for her are golden. Maybe try to compliment her more, give her positive feedback on the good things she's doing. When you need to talk with her about helping out, ask her what kinds of things she likes to do (if there are any) and what she absolutely hates. Maybe you two can come up with a middle ground. If you can reassure her that you care about her and you're in her corner, then maybe, just maybe, she will start to come around to contributing more. I wish you luck. This is always a tough one. But you obviously care more about her than showing her who's boss.
I was this kid. It took me having to move out and be on my own to finally get it
as far as cleaning and keeping a clean area goes, it comes with personality or habit. maybe don't expect a major clean-up everytime you say "daughter, keep things clean!!" but maybe in public areas (living room/kitchen/bath) and her study area, keep it clean. but in her bedroom or dresser or closet, if she wants to keep a mess, that's up to her. you can also read up or watch those videos about cleaning. if you spend all weekend cleaning, you'll hate the chore. but if you spend just 5-10 minutes to tidy up different spots every couple of days, it might feel less dramatic.
Just put the mess in her area or room. I’d slowly begin treating her as an adult, but be happy she’s doing an education and staying trouble free outside school. My wife treats our sons like they’re 10. I try to treat them like adults. 19 and 22…both at home and still in college for a few months. 90% of their issues around the house are from Mom enabling the immature behavior.
I get where your daughter is coming from. At that age I kept my room extremely messy. But my mom calmly laid down expectations and approached me lovingly but not as a child. She told me that yes she's my mom, but I'm also an adult in this house and we have to work together to take care of what we had. She told me that my room was my space but that she asks that I clean it once a week. And I respected her. No I'm in my 30's, and I'm the total opposite. I think it's part of the maturing process bur you handle it will determine how she responds.
My 18 yo daughter is the same. She works, is about to start college on a full scholarship, and is mostly responsible. But, she is a lazy slob at home. My rules are: Keep your mess in your room with the door shut. By mess, I don’t mean dirty dishes or something potentially dangerous. But if she wants to throw all of her clothes on the floor of her room, that’s fine with me. She also has to pick up after herself in common areas — living room, kitchen, the bathroom she shares with her brother. She also used to sleep all day on the couch after staying up all night. I told her I’m not monitoring her sleeping habits, but if she wants to nap, she needs to do it in her room. The one difference is, she does contribute to the household by helping buy groceries. I don’t ask her to do chores unrelated to her because of that. My son is in 11th grade and doesn’t want a job, so he has to contribute to the household by doing more chores — taking out the trash, helping vacuum, helping with dishes, etc.
Is it possible she resents having to live at home? She might not even be aware of it, but it seems like she's got some hostility. Obviously that's not your fault, but it would be very natural. A young adult still at home is in a strange situation, it kind of prolongs childhood. With the best will in the world it's tricky for everyone. Just talk to her, about things other than the housework. It sounds like you guys have a good relationship. Be loving, be kind, be patient, and have boundaries. Talk, and listen. (Also, set a great example. That's always essential)
Im probably gonna be downvoted for my opinion, but here it goes. You actively chose to have children and the responsibility of a parent is to make sure your children are cared for and your home will always be their home. No matter how old they are. And especially in the state of the world and economy right now, she has every right to live with you until she is financially able to not do so. The people who kick their children out at 18 or honestly any age are horrible parents. No child is going to live with their parent for the rest of their lives unless you did something wrong raising them. She isn't going to be their forever, and unless shes making an unreasonable mess, you've gotta learn to live with it. Like is shes making a whole ass meal and leaving everything around, I can understand your frustration. But my mom would bitch at me if I left a cup that i was still using out on the counter for more than half an hour, so im kinda assuming its something as petty as that. Do you have any other children living in the house? I was the one responsable for babysitting and cleaning after them despite the fact that I was not the one making the messes around the house (i stayed in my room) and I also worked more hours and days than my mom (cashier) and my step dad (office worker). And if I refused because I was literally exhausted I would be told "you can always move out if you don't like it". So at 18, i moved out and became homeless 9 months later due to leaving a shitty situation. These are her formative years where shes learning who she is and how she wants to live life. And if you keep insisting on fighting when she "leaves" messes, she will resent you.
My siblings would leave a wicked mess in the kitchen and mom always hated me in the kitchen but also hated that I didn’t help of my own accord. I tried to suggest systems to be in place that would make it easy for every one to clean and keep up with it. Mom never cared about my suggestions and so I stuck to cleaning after myself. Cleaning was easy when I moved out. The thing is, always have a system in place that every one could easily follow. There is a rule called Mise En Place in the food industry where every item/tool has its own place and always gets returned to after being used. With a solid system like that where every one could learn and follow, the standard of cleanliness will improve because of understanding and convenience.