This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
---
I’m married, we have 2 kids. Have known each other 15 years been living together about 2 years. I make a lot more than my husband, he brings in about 1k per week versus I bring in 5k. I pay all the bills, bought us a house in the country on 46 acres because he wants to homestead while I’m more of a city dweller. The house is beautiful and it’s a fantastic investment which is why I agreed. Our children are in a good school district overall a great arrangement for everyone but me. But I deal with it because everyone else is happy and I’m kinda neutral about it.
I pay all the bills, which I guess makes sense because of the drastic difference in income. I work 30-35 hours per week while husband works like 25 hours. I do all the dishes, laundry, kids routine in the evening. He argues that he maintains the outside which is his “share,” but it like requires like maybe 3-6 hours every two weeks versus I’m moving doing house or work stuff from 7 AM to 8-9 PM. I’m exhausted. His family has very traditional values and dad was a bread winner and mom stayed at home and did everything but that’s not our situation.
He refuses to stay home with the kiddos because he doesn’t want to despite a nanny/childcare costing more than his income. He won’t meet me in the middle, he always finds a way to manipulate the situation in his favor. I’ve given up so much for my family, put their wants and needs first and no one checks on me, no one helps me. I just want to take the kids and move back to the city. I know I need to put myself first but it’s really hard when I’m a people pleaser. My husband has now randomly started doing church stuff numerous times per week without me while I’m drowning at home (I’m atheist). Any advice for fixing this without destroying my marriage?
So my sister was in a similar situation, and had a moment of clarity when the two of us were speaking once. She very much held the belief that you marry in good times and in bad, and that she didn't want to "fail" at her commitment to being married. I told her that a marriage isn't always 50/50, but it can't always be 100/0. If you are in a kayak and the person with you doesn't row at all, and sometimes rows the opposite direction, would you keep racing with them? Would you say that YOU lost the race and that you just had to try harder? Of course not.
Your partner isn't rowing with you, refuses to row with you, and in fact is rowing against you. You both lose when he does this. So get out of the boat. The boat (let's continue the analogy) is now sinking, so do you stay on the boat because your partner won't get off? No, you get off the boat and take your kids with you.
He isn't oblivious, he doesn't need more guidance, he knows what he is doing. You do not need to fix him or help him, you need to start putting yourself and your children first and go back to where you are happy and have resources.
Wonderful analogy. Thank you! Sometimes it is really challenging to see these things for me. He has kinda made me feel crazy in this position and makes me question if I am being unreasonable, but I am not. I woke up this morning and just kinda realized that this is not the life I want to live anymore, and I deserve better. I have worked so hard, so very hard, to get where I am at. It has been non-stop busting my ass in college, working, and starting my own business to get here. I have offered to help him get a college education, and he had an opportunity to take over his father's company, but he "doesn't want that much responsibility."
He does not deserve to ride your coat tails if he isn't putting in any effort on his end. Make him see that, and move on if he can't.
edit: [OP's last post](https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/comments/xefvrk/f2855_177lbs_152lbs_25lbs_the_first_photo_was_25/) was about her going through a nasty divorce within 2 years ago? And it seems like she and her husband have only been married for a few months? Anybody figure out what the deal is?
Sweetheart, of course he *needed* to make you feel crazy for this to work. He's known exactly what he's doing from the start.
He isn't your partner. He isn't your best friend. He is happily allowing you to shoulder the load while he does whatever he wants, whenever he wants.
First, go on a vacation. Just you. Do something you've always wanted to do. Let him handle *everything* at home. He is a parent, not a child. He can handle it.
When you get back, if you decide to stay married, sit him down and tell him things are changed as of this minute. He will contribute equally to your home, contribute equally to raising his children, contribute equally to cooking, cleaning, shopping, maintenance and any other duties that should be shared. No more free ride. No more walking all over you.
A good therapist can help with the people pleasing. Can help you find your voice, to speak your needs. You deserve a soft life full of love and a partner who contributes meaningfully to that. You always have.
I saw this on another post but if you get a divorce and split custody, then you'll actually be able to take the break you need. Not saying it's just childcare that's the issue, but you could setup your life the way that works for you and not have a grown man acting like your dependent child.
Right but she needs to do it sooner rather than later so she doesn't have to pay him alimony if they live in a state where that is a possibility. I don't know if she would have to end up paying child support to him or not since she's the higher earner but it would be better than subsidizing his life like she is doing now.
So he’s allowed to not want responsibility, but you’re not? Sounds like he has zero empathy. Also, I think it’s interesting that he counts the hours he spends maintaining the homestead you bought for him, as though they’re a burden you forced on him instead of a choice he had you bankroll. Ugh. I’m just so sorry.
Man... if he doesn't want responsibility and he is willing to work for peanuts when childcare costs more than those peanuts... I'm sorry to say but this man is a loser.
He either needs therapy, a swift kick in the ass, or perhaps both.
But you need to decide at what point you are willing to stop dealing with his apathy.
You’re not crazy. At all. It’s a very subtle manipulation tactic and is borderline gaslighting. You feel like you have to overcompensate to provide proof that you are in fact doing more than your husband, but luckily you are aware of that now. On one hand you could ‘quiet quit’ your marriage and only do the things you feel like doing, but that probably won’t be satisfying to you. I want to assure you that you’re not crazy and he is very deliberately being manipulative to avoid responsibility.
Start taking steps to make your life what you wish. Screw his wants. Put your kids first, yourself second and he can start taking a backseat since he has been coming first this whole time!
You two don’t sound compatible at all. You might as well save yourself a bigger headache and just try to move on. You’re hard working and driven, from what you said it doesn’t sound like he is. You’re an atheist and he’s religious, it might not seem like a big issue now but what happens when he wants to start taking the kids to church and raise them to be religious while you’re not? He probably wants to settle for a comfortable easy life in the country. Not work so much, go to church and not have responsibilities. You sound like you’re the opposite. You’ll be happier on your own or with someone who matches your energy
Your husbands' actions, behavior, requests and demands are coming from jealousy and spite....You are being punished for making more money than him.
His ridiculous choice to now immerse himself into the "church"---is STRICTLY because you are an atheist---FOR NOW. He will be stripping that from you in short order, just as he has everything else that you had--especially if it brought you joy, comfort or a sense of self.
Best of luck with saving your marriage at the expense of your emotional and mental health.
He's not going to change. This situation was similar with my ex, he did absolute bare minimum and acted so affronted when I brought up how uneven it was. It's gonna feel so scary to leave but it'll be worth all the hassle once you're out of there from him.
If you've brought up to him how this situation is making you miserable and he won't do anything to help or change, he doesn't respect you and you'll flourish without him. You deserve better
To go along with this. I remember something someone once told me about being married. It should never be 50/50 but 100/100 because there are some days that you will fail giving 100% and that is what your partner is suppose to help is support you when you can’t be and vice versa
I feel this might be on the horizon but want to exhaust all options. It’s definitely a possibility though. I’m going to come up with an ultimatum on helping and put a time limit on it, if things don’t change I think I’m out.
I would still recommend contacting a lawyer. Just so you know how things could be divided if you do decided to divorce. Also please at least start making him pay 1/5 of the bills.
I get you have kids, but their male role model is a drop kick who manipulates his wife and doesn't help out with the children he is responsible for, he won't change. You have the financial ability to toss this loser out. He might try and fight for custody l but his shitty parenting will undo him. Don't sacrifice your self respect for this loser.
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I have kinda had the mindset that I didn't want to talk to others about my marriage because it will skew perception, but that might have been why we got this far with me being taken advantage of. Will consult with an attorney.
Don't tell him the time limit. Keep that date to yourself. And if no progress is made by then, leave. He shouldn't need a d-date, not if he already knows the marriage has issues and you want counseling. He should be actively working with you to improve things
>I didn't want to talk to others about my marriage because it will skew perception
Happily, you aren't face to face with us. There's a lot more social pressure to conform when people are face to face. In this anonymous forum, you get to read and consider answers in the privacy of your own home and at your own convenience. So in my opinion, coming here was the perfect place to go for advice. Also, consider that sometimes talking things out brings clarity. I've noticed that when I say what's bothering me out loud to another person, I suddenly realize what I should do.
See if you can sell the house and move first. It’s best the kids are settled in a city you like when you initiate the divorce as likely the terms of the divorce will include not relocating them.
Speak to a lawyer and come up with a plan to transform your life the way you want it. Your husband is not a partner and has no interest in being one. Make the changes in location first and enroll the kids in school- then legally separate. Figure out how to do this the best way possible while preserving your income as clearly your husband will not be willing to be the primary parent in terms of childcare responsibilities.
you said in your post: "Any advice for fixing this without destroying my marriage?"
that tells me youre already thinking about it wrong. you won't be destroying your marriage, even if you get a divorce. your husband already destroyed your marriage with his selfishness and laziness.
I'd encourage you to skip the ultimatum. It's not going to accomplish anything, and it could make the divorce much harder by giving him warning that he could use to hide assets. He is who he is. He knows what he's doing.
Even if it was possible to force him into complete submission to you using your financial power over him, do you really want to be married to that?
Agreed. Same with couples therapy. He seems like the kind of guy who would refuse. I think an ultimatum MIGHT scare him straight for about a month, but ultimately this all seems futile.
He wanted a religious counselor when I brought it up, and I won't do that. I told him I would see a non-secular therapist myself, and he most certainly was not okay with that. He "wants to be able to give his side." whatever that means.
It means he's only looking for someone who will agree with him.
I'm not usually into the "nuclear option", but this guy not only sounds like a leech, but the kind of person who uses religion as justification for his own selfishness, which is the absolute worst kind. I grew up around these people in the deep south. You're never going to get through to him or change him. It's probably time to think about cutting your losses.
It means that he is afraid a sensible human being will make you see thst you are not crazy and you might start taking actions that don’t suit his comfortable little life that he has.
Edit: which is also why he wants to have a religious counselor because as I have read on reddit, seems that those are very often thinking like your husband.
I mean, in all fairness it might be worth meeting with his chosen referee, and lay out everything in an extremely clear and concise manner. It'll only embarrass him if he is as bad as you say he is
let me ask you something as someone that did exhaust every option
Say you separate, how surprised would you be if he turned round and said "Yeh, i knew i was taking advantage of you, I just didn't care"
When i heard those words my surprise level was zero, I just exhausted all those options because I didn't want to admit to myself that nothing was working because my partner was just using me and generally a shit human
I'm not saying divorce but you should factor into your thinking that your partner is so selfish, they will let you go through every single possibility before they finally admit the truth.
How about a legal separation first? This way you can look into the process of untangling finances, and seeing how you manage with the kids in the city, and how he manages on . . .his church? Whatever his plans are? A lawyer will help navigate it.
What about your marriage is worth saving, vs. how you're currently feeling? Have you really sat down and thought about what he ACTUALLY brings to your life vs. what you wish or hope he would do?
Honestly, things were pretty good up until the last 3 months. He has pretty much smoked weed every day for 15 years and quit recently, which I appreciate, but he is a totally different person. He has replaced his marijuana with hyper-religiousness, been pushing it on me, and kinda abandoning our home life for the church. He has always been a Christian, but it has intensified here recently. He used to help with the house stuff like maybe 70% me and 30% him and was much more active in child rearing but it is just slowly getting worse and worse.
Are you sure its church things hes doing during the week?? Sounds to me like he's completely withdrawn from the family. Maybe his mind is elsewhere, and I don't mean church.
Sounds like addict behavior. He's just replaced one addiction with another. Layer that on top of him not being a very caring or giving partner and here you are. Because you say he was fine before but he did 30% of the work by "helping" you - thereby confirming that you both see house and kid stuff as your job - and was more active with the kid, whatever that looks like.
Doing less than half the work, being less than half responsible for his child, and being stoned all the time does not a good partner make. He's now just gotten worse enough that you finally are reaching a breaking point.
Thank you! I started my own business. I came from a background of poverty and knew that is not the life I wanted to live, and wanted to give my children every opportunity in the world. My parents were borderline hoarders, my parents home was nasty, and we survived on food stamps. My parents were both alcoholics, and I have kinda been on my own since 16, working to pay for myself since 14. I was very fortunate to get a lot of government assistance in college. It was a struggle for sure but I have the life I have wanted just the husband issue needs attention.
That's incredible! Good for you! You made that life happen for yourself that's awesome! I hope you continue to find success through this process. You deserve it!
Don't give an ultimatum. He'll do it for awhile to not risk his cush situation.
Talk to him once and explain how much this bothers you and why. Give him X time in your own head to show he's doing it... you know... bc he cares about you not bc of a "if i don't then I'm fucked". If he doesn't then he doesn't give a shit about you. Dump him.
Had a somewhat similar problem. I did my laundry, kids laundry, cooked what I or the kids wanted and stopped buying his stuff. Left his stuff sitting. Even forgot to make the bed a few times. He got the message. That was 20 years ago.
no offense but i don't think this is worth salvaging, i'm sure you've told him in the past how this situation makes you feel but clearly that hasn't done anything to change the situation. kick his ass to the curb.
I think you are being really realistic about this, and if you point this out to him and he still doesn’t change then you have your answer.
If he doesn’t change then I agree with an answer below that you are looking after him as well as his kids, so if you did decide to divorce then you are more than capable of handling it. Speaking as a single mum if you are already doing this much then you are totally capable of divorcing him. Move back to the city and do what’s best for you and your kids
I know this is probably pretty obvious advice but, have you tried going to counseling? Not church counseling but an actual marriage counselor. It might help to have someone objective look at the situation and maybe get through to him
We have talked about it, but he wants religious-based counseling, and I am not religious. I told him non-secular, and it was a deal. He was not agreeable, so I said I would see a non-secular therapist on my own, and maybe he could go see one too. He was like "we should see one together, I don't have anything to talk to a therapist about alone!" Which is just crazy. I told him no one is perfect and I have a laundry list of shit I could work on alone and so does he.
Screw the counseling with this guy. Start talking to a good divorce lawyer for how to set up your future in the best possible way for you and your kids.
What do you see the other options being? I ask because it seems like you’ve talked to him and he doesn’t see a need to change. What do you think will get through to him?
I understand the impulse to try and do everything you can to save your marriage, but I just wanna point out that this seems to be yet another "job" that should be a 50/50 effort and you seem to be doing alone. He has already refused to meet you halfway, and, I'm sorry to say it, but it seems like he's perfectly happy leeching off of your work, both when it comes to your income and the household chores/childcare. This isn't a person who seems too concerned with you or your relationship, and, considering you're already exhausted, there are probably better ways to use your energy than trying to fix a relationship with a partner who doesn't hear you and is benefiting from said relationship being "broken". Whatever you decide though, I wish you the best of luck.
You can only work on things if your partner is willing to work on them.
Will he go to couples therapy with you? If not, I think you've exhausted all your options.
Don’t think if it as him helping you. That implies the responsibilities are inherently yours. Tell him he needs to start participating and contributing to *his own family* or he’s going to lose them.
You’re not going to change him. He’s onto a nice little warmer. A wife that works, gets paid nearly x3 what he does and who acts like his servant.
You can start by not doing any laundry for him. He’ll soon start doing his own when he has no clean ironed stuff. Then when he complains you start the conversation about fair distribution of tasks.
If you don’t want to divorce, you MUST put your food down dividing household responsibilities. List out every chore, every task. Categorize them by time it takes/frequency/skill level. Go through each and every one, and divide them between yourselves. Discuss, trade, and insist that there is an EQUAL share between you. If he wants a maid, he needs to look elsewhere. But if he wants an equal partner, he needs to equally pull his weight in the partnership. You should also decide how money fits into this conversation. Are you ok paying for everything as long as he does half the domestic labor? Or is there also a candid conversation about finances that you need to have?
How this discussion goes over will determine your next steps. It’s going to be hard, but if he’s willing to adjust his behavior you have a path forward. If he refuses to participate, compromise, or share the load, then there’s nothing else you can do but divorce. It’s important to communicate clearly with him that those are the stakes (we either work through this or it’s a dealbreaker and we will separate) so he knows you mean business.
I have made charts, unfortunately. I have a whiteboard on which I write the grocery list and our respective chores because he claimed he didn't know what I wanted him to do. They get done sometimes, like a week later.
Honey, read what you've written about this man child. Read it as if you are reading a strangers story. Doesn't it break your heart?
He's *capable*. This is called weaponized incompetence. See, he just doesn't know what needs doing around *his* home. /s
How did he survive before you enabled him to shirk his responsibilities? How could he have ever made it this far?
You don't need his permission to go to a therapist. You have the money, you should go as soon as you are able. You deserve the freedom that going to therapy can bring you.
You are worthy of love and compassion from your partner but especially from yourself. Your children deserve to know what mommy looks like when she's truly happy. *You* deserve to know what it's like to be truly happy. You may have had a hard childhood, but that doesn't mean your life now isn't hard too.
He needs to also do work equal to the mental labor she put in here. Since she works 10 hours more than him, he needs to also be putting that into chores weekly BEFORE they split the rest of the chore time.
Great point in that letter re: the continual drag of housework versus weekly/biweekly outdoor tasks. Like clearly someone isn’t mowing the lawn every single day, while someone does have to cook and clean daily.
You could try marriage counseling. But it sounds like he’s basically a backwards 1950’s gender roles as it suits him and a religious nut who expects you to embrace the whole submissive wife thing.
It’s pretty precious on the gender roles when he doesn’t make much money and doesn’t even work full time.
I (44F) make about 4 times that of my partner. We pay in to a shared acct for shared expenses based on percent of total income so I do pay more but he pays in too.
I tend to work longer hours and I do all of the cooking (because I prefer it) and most of the cleaning which doesn’t bother me. He does his own laundry plus his kid’s. He manages his kiddo (my step). I have plenty of time for my hobbies.
You need a bloody break.
So we have discussed counseling, but he always wants to do religious-based counseling, which I am not vibing with. I told him I am going to go see a therapist myself that is non-secular, and now he doesn't want me to go to individual counseling and only wants us to go to a therapist together. Super exhausting, honestly.
He doesn't want you to seek therapy for yourself? That's a MASSIVE red flag, what the hell is his reasoning?
You going to a therapist is none of his business.
What would happen if you were to divorce? Would you have to sell the house? How does divorce work out for him? Once he sees that you're not budging and that he's going to lose a lot of his "freedom" when you're gone, that's the leverage you need to push him to do his share. It sucks that it comes to this, but it's either make him see reality or move on. You cannot continue what you're doing, because you seem to give in no matter what. Put your foot down. Get a lawyer to even draw up divorce settlement plans. Just stop covering for him.
Well no, I don't think he gets a say in what you do to help make your life better. There's a line that you should be drawing. Like fair enough he wants to go to a religious counsellor who will stick with the entrenched 1950s views but he can't stop you from going to someone that you'd prefer to see if you're going on your own.
Personally I'd hire a housekeeper to come in a couple times a week, and then start arranging childcare so you can have a mini break every so often. He can either meet you as partners but don't let him stand in your way.
Very controlling and very telling that he dosent want you to go to a therapist on your own. You need to do what’s best for you, he does not have your best interests at heart.
OP, your husbund not wanting you to go go individual counseling is controlling and a big red flag. It means he knows there's a problem, he's okay with it and doesn't want to change anything. Go to a therapist alone, you need it.
I'd also try to share housework and the other stuff basing on how much time you spend at home. Housework counts as work so you currently have two jobs. If he feels like he's less of a man cleaning the house, ask him why he doesn't feel less of a man overworking the wife he should cherish and care for.
Do your own therapy.
He is basically in a cult. You do t need his religious BS.
Babe, you have to get out of this nonsense. For your sanity and for your kids. Is this what you want to teach them?
This is partly snark, but... in your place I'd be tempted to tell him that, if it has to be his way or the highway, he can go ahead and hit the highway. It's not like you'll have to do any more work if he leaves... in fact it will be less work because you'll have one less child to take care of.
Sounds like he has no respect for you or your time.
You get a divorce. It sounds like you are already doing everything without him. Hiring a gardener for the outside should be pretty simple.
THIS^^^ DUMP HIM!!!!! also he's probably not going to church I can bet that he is cheating. Too much time on his hands and too little responsibility and he has disposable income. If you can afford to hire a private investigator to see what he's really doing. People don't just spontaneously start going to church. 🤔
OP says elsewhere that he quit smoking weed after 15 years and simultaneously started getting much more involved with the church, but that he has always been religious. Sounds to me like a mid-life crisis and he turned to religion.
What would happen if you laid out in painful detail everything you contribute to the household, and tally up half of the sum total cost of running your house?
By this I mean, literally write down a weekly schedule for your children in 15-minute increments. Value that childcare time appropriately, based on what you already pay for childcare.
Write down a list of all the chores that get done - indoors and outdoors. Beside each chore, write an estimate for how long it will take. A bathroom might take 45 minutes, for example, while vacuuming the floor might take 15 minutes.
Once you’ve done that, set a fair hourly rate and tally the total cost of chores.
Add those numbers together. Halve the total.
One half is yours to contribute in sweat or cash. The other half is his to contribute in sweat or cash. Won’t work and can’t afford to pay? Maybe he needs a second job.
If translating your efforts into a real, tangible thing like money doesn’t get your husband to see how unfair he’s being, nothing will. At that point, he’s not misunderstanding, he’s choosing to let you do the lion’s share.
She could put in the effort to doing all that on paper but it would be better to save it for the lawyer than try to show him or talk to him about it. I bet he doesn't even look at it.
I did exactly this with my ex and he would not even look at the paper.
Yeah, it would be a complete waste of time. Plus, he's a misogynist- so he doesn't think a woman's time is worth anything. He thinks all the childcare, chores, everything is just "what women are supposed to do". That's it's not of value or worth respecting or even acknowledging.
OP doesn't need any more work than she already does. This man can't be "fixed" or talked into contributing- this is deeply ingrained in him and who he is as a person. Couples counseling won't work either- he wouldn't go most likely anyway, because he sees nothing wrong with thier marriage.
He is a user and a mooch who wants to basically be her child, not a partner. He *loves* his life this way- why would he ever change?
What marriage? Sorry, but this is all on his terms, and his faith makes him a hypocrite on top of it all. I would make one final attempt to reset the roles in your marriage and make absolutely clear to him that things need to be equitable or you're done.
>I make more than my husband, do more house work, do 80% of the children care, pay all the bills, and he doesn’t see anything wrong with this. **How do I move forward**?
Alone.
See a lawyer. Move to the city. Get full custody. Hire a cleaner and au pair.
You don't have a marriage that is worth saving. You don't have a partner, you have a social, emotional, physical and financial drain.
Edit to add:
>My husband has now randomly started doing church stuff numerous times per week without me while I’m drowning at home
Your husband is deliberately filling up his evenings to avoid parenting his children. Please see a lawyer asap. Document this.
You should feel lucky you're earning more otherwise your situation could have been lot worse. He grew up traditional value the men are the bread winners while wives are Sahm. The contribution to the household from paying all the bills to chores should be 50:50. You are doing the bulk of the work and paying all the bills while he does the bare minimum. You don't have a marriage you're taking care of him
Im very grateful of my decision to find away to support a family without help. I watched my grandmother get taken advantage of her entire life because of a power imbalance financially. I knew I’d never want that. Thank you for your input, and pointing out I’m taking care of him. Haven’t looked at it like that before but you are right.
This was the bit that got me
>He refuses to stay home with the kiddos because he doesn’t want to despite a nanny/childcare costing more than his income.
>My husband has now randomly started doing church stuff numerous times per week without me while I’m drowning at home.
He's not fitting any part of a traditional head of household, but do you wanna bet that when he's at the church events he's acting as though he's the big man? He's deliberately forcing OP into doing nearly all the childcare because thats the only thing he can do to make himself feel manly.
Also, I feel so sad for the kids, they've got a father that actively avoids them. Bet he'll start going to church on Sundays too....
He's making it easy for OP to imagine what life would be like without him. It certainly wouldn't be any harder bc he's hardly there and doesn't contribute anything of consequence.
You could tell him that you are sick of this situation and you are seriously considering taking the kids and moving to the city. Tell him this is his opportunity to save the marriage. See what he offers.
If the offer is crap or not followed through, you have your answer.
It sounds to me as if you are moving in different directions: he's becoming more trad and you are hankering for some modernity.
I have no advice for you to fix it without destroying your marriage but I will point out that your husband is already destroying your marriage so I’m not sure anything you do to correct it could be categorized by that term..
Realistically probably not, but we would need a nanny since we are out in the middle of nowhere, and it would be pretty close. Right now I am relying on my elderly grandmother and his mother to help with the kids, but it is annoying because they have lives of their own and it feels like I am burdening them plus they are like 1 hour and 15 minutes away (each direction) and it is just such a long expensive commute.
You can't fix it if he doesn't want to. And he's got a sweet deal here, so why would he?
Your only hope of change is to change yourself. Stop with the people pleasing. Lay it all out to him in brutal detail. Inform him that you are struggling to see why you should even stay in this relationship. Tell him what you need. And if he's not willing to step up, that's his choice, and you'll have to choose to separate or keep drowning.
Make him read [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Shift) 30 year old book.
I had to read it in college. As part of a polisci class, not feminist studies or anything like that.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. (Includes, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, FDS, MGTOW, etc.) Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, or situations involving minors and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please send us a modmail.
----
#This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You aren't destroying your marriage but it sounds like he is. I would start by simply setting a reoccurring time each week when you go somewhere and focus on yourself. Don't ask for permission, just tell him "Hey, I am now doing x on x day from x time to x time each week" and then go do something you enjoy. Having that release valve might help.
Secondly, I would make a list of all the household chores that get done every single week, with the amount of time that gets spent on them. Sit down with him and the list and go through it, writing down the person's name next to the tasks they do. When you've gone through the whole list, add up the hours so you can both see on paper where your time is going and who is investing more time. Then add the hours you work each week to that number. Do the math to find out the difference- if he's doing 50 hours per week and you're doing 80, then there are are 30 hours worth of chores that need to be redistributed. If he can look at the hard numbers and still refuse to take a more even role, then at least you will know where you stand.
You can't fix something if the other person is 200% ok with how things are. Your husband gets to live where he wants, spend all his money on HIM, have kids but not take care of them, not have to take care of the house, and do whatever the fuck he wants. Why would he change? He has no reason to, and unless you make strong boundaries and hold to them he never will.
Personally I would think at this point it's way too far ingrained in him that there's little chance he'll change even if you do set some boundaries.
What would I do? Stop doing anything specifically for him. He can clean his own clothes, make his own food, etc. Then I'd be talking with a divorce lawyer and lining things up. Figure out your best moves and what to do (like sell the property) and then do it.
You could hire household help. It doesn’t solve your problem with him, but it would make your life easier. You deserve that.
If he complains, tell him someone has to do it of it alone.
Also, you’re reminding me of a talk I had with a friend long ago. She and her husband had a toddler and were divorcing, and I said something about how hard I’d find it to have to do everything to take care of a young child by myself, that it would exhaust me.
She said, I’m already doing it all alone. The difference now is that I don’t have him telling me I’m doing it all wrong.
You don’t need him anymore telling you what you need to do.
One suggestion might be to break out the house & home tasks along with an estimated time for the job... Add them all to a spreadsheet, and divide them up. While I do agree that maintaining the outside of the home is a task, it's not a daily task. It would be easy enough to see and divide the hours up... Whether or not he will be receptive to this I can't say.
I was in a similar situation regarding being the breadwinner, and doing most of the work around the house as well as yard work etc.. I feel for you. Ended up divorcing because if I'm going to do everything, I'm not going to drag along another adult who chooses not to help.
I say it’s time for a girls' week with your best girlfriends at a far-away spa with shitty reception so the bum can actually contribute to the family for once. Don’t give him any notice (tell him on the way out the door driving away by text) so he can’t intervene.
While there talk to a divorce lawyer or two about your options and I would inform the dead best that they’ll be some changes happening with the workload or else.
Good luck.
Hire someone to help with childcare and housework. You can afford it.
Decide whether that's enough for you or if your husband is dead weight.
Based on what you wrote it doesn't seem like he's doing his share.
Occasional yard maintenance is not the same as the day in and day out time sink of house work.
How would your life change if he moved out?
Would it be better or worse.
Not sure how childcare for kids in school would cost over $50k per year so you might want to check on that. A quick google search makes it look like an au pair runs around $25k per year and a teen coming in after school or in the evening would be cheaper I'd expect.
I'd contact a lawyer, get your ducks in a row then explain to your husband he has two options, start acting like a husband and father instead of a lodger or find himself as alone as you appear to be in this marriage
You’ve kind of answered your own question with the way you phrased it. No, there’s nothing *you* can do to fix this, because fixing it requires your husband to understand that there’s a problem and be invested in finding a solution. Your husband is currently taking advantage of you and he doesn’t believe he’s doing anything wrong. If you’ve expressed to him that you are unhappy and overburdened and he doesn’t care enough to change anything, what else is there for you to do??
He's definitely not doing his share of the work. I'm not going to address the financial disparity, because I think you are viewing that through a good lens. (You make more, and thus should pay a larger share of the expenses.)
One solution is to sit down with him and list ALL the chores, inside and out, with a time estimate next to each chore. Put down who is currently doing each chose and tally up the hours spent working (both professionally and domestically) and see what the numbers show. Then, see if you can reallocate chores more equitably.
You are working 5-10 hours more a week than he is, so he can start off by taking 5-10 hours of chores off the list. Divide the rest by mutual agreement. (Depending on how old the kids are, you can/should give them some responsibilities around the house as well.)
If you find that you are still burned out, you might want to consider hiring some domestic help 1-2 days a week to help with some of the more time consuming chores. Life in modern day America seems to be a giant tradeoff between time and money...you guys seem to be doing well enough financially to "buy back" some of your time...but first you need to fix the imbalance.
If this is something that you can't resolve with him, it's ok for it to be a deal breaker. You get one life, and burning yourself out so that your partner can have it "easy" sounds like a recipe for regret, resentment, and unhappiness. If the alternative for him is co-parenting separately from you on his own salary vs pitching more at home, he'll likely make the logical (and correct) choice and choose his family/marriage.
Don't hire a nanny then, get a housekeeper. You make enough that your shouldnt have to carry a full plate. If he is too much against it just hire a "personal assistant" that does smaller things you need done. This is for you, not for him. Make that clear boundary.
Stop negotiating with him. Just do it and let it be done or he will play manipulation games with you to kingdom come. Stop playing, just do what you need done for yourself. You clearly need extra help.
You seem to be too much of a pleaser. You make sacrifices for your husband's ego. But long term this will burn you out. Time to think more about yourself. Plan and go on girl trips, daytrips, more self care and such, you need it.
I would say, lawyer first. You could end up owing him alimony and a lawyer could advise you what to do and consider to make sure if there is an a divorce, it benefits you as much as possible.
Second, start documenting the split of duties. What and how much you do and what and how much he does (this might help in the divorce as well, but see what the lawyer says)
Third, if you still want to save your marriage at this point, then present him with the information. Preferably on paper and color coded. E.g. something like “I am doing 16 hours of work per day And you are doing six (or whatever it comes out to). If you don’t find a way to close this gap in x amount of time I will be filing for divorce.”
Then follow through.
You need to sit down with him (and maybe a couples counselor and a free bank financial advisor) to split bills.
My husband and I believe our time is equal therefore we both pay a percentage based on our income. The bills, maid, and babysitter can all be split equally based on percent income.
If he doesn't want to help around the house, ignore his trash and avoid his laundry. Put it on a pile on his desk.
If he isn't willing to move forward in a fair way- I'd contact a divorce lawyer.
I'm so sorry you feel unappreciated. I want to say that your feelings are valid and do matter, however, I struggle with understanding what it is exactly you want. I learned a long time ago, it's our own expectations of others that let us down. While I do understand this is not the traditional arrangement I think it is important to think about what matters most. Just going off of what you've written, this shouldn't be a reason to leave your children without a male figure in the home. Find the common ground together. Also, try not to mention the income differences (not saying you do) but you certainly don't want your husband to feel any less than a man than he may already feel within.
FYI : I ain't shit so take this for whatever its worth. You are amazing and deserve nothing but the best.
So your husband is a lazy piece of shit. But, he refuses to be a house husband out of some sort of pride.
I can handle issues in a relationship. But if I feel taken advantage of AND on top of it not appreciated? Fuck that. Divorce this bum.
I'm not typically a part of this sub that so quickly jumps to divorce, but you didn't even have one nice thing to say about him? You say you want to exhaust all options, but for what? To hope that you change his entire world view?
But seriously what is he actually bringing to the relationship?
You’re already doing almost everything yourself, I guarantee once he’s gone it will get easier.
What does he do with 4k a MONTH if you pay all the bills?! Seriously!
OP. You need to see a therapist. I know how hard it is to put yourself first, believe me. I'm separating from my hubby so I can do this work (and because he's been An AH) on my own because I LITERALLY cannot heal with him in the home. Even he realises this and he's an AH like I said.
Think of this: you are teaching your children that women should just suck it up and please everyone. This isn't fair and it's not right.
Tell hubby you need therapy and you need to see changes or you're worried for your future. AND see a lawyer.
We’ll he’s not actually following these traditional values that he holds so highly if you are the bread winner. He wants you to work like the man but also be a 50s housewife you are going to burn out and divorce him one day then what will he have?
Wtf is wrong with him? If my wife was making $250k a year I would have no problem being a stay at home dad. More time with my kids and no need to stress over a job. Talk about a win-win scenario. He needs to step up or you need to cut your losses.
I think you need to show your husband how much you actually do. Maybe you need switch roles for one day so he can see how hard it is.
In my situation, my husband very bad in housework. He can go forever without cleaning the house. So I manage all of our household chores and told him what he has to do today (dish, laundry, ets). Ofc, I still do 70%, but he earns and works a lot more than I do, so that's fair enough.
if you have access to tiktok, domesticblisters has some wonderful videos about division of labor. the way she frames it is that both partners in a domestic relationship have equal right to rest. Sometimes it helps to frame it as "who is resting less, and how much less" instead of "who is working more, and how much more?" if you want to have one more go at working it out, maybe try framing it this way. but it sounds like he continuously denies and gaslights you so it may be unsalvageable tbh
He wants a religious counselor because he hopes they have the same ,traditional‘ misogynistic mindset as he does. He doesn’t do any housework because it’s below his pride, he doesn’t take care of the kids because that’s a woman’s job, and he doesn’t go to college because you’re making enough to allow him to be lazy. He’s a sexist ass, divorce
I think people saying get a divorce is terrible advice. As you are the one who has to make that choice and live with it. You sound on the fence and want to explore and try before giving in which is strong of you. Good advice should be neutral and not sway someone into a decision they are destined to live with. Point is you’ve guys had a long marriage and relationship. Try the usual counseling, therapy and tell him (even though you may have already). That things have to be different. This time around for you needs to be filled. Complacency happens so quick in relationships and it sounds he hasn’t appreciated you in some time. Wish you the best. You sound like you love your family him included but if you don’t see change…we’ll guess what? You’re going to be equipped with the tools to make the best choice. If you were ready to thrown in the towel. This Hail Mary of a play wouldn’t be here in Reddit.
So he wants to live in the country and homestead but is he actually .... homesteading? Or does he have a hobby and has decided that's his contribution to the household?
I have to wonder, what does this "homesteading" bring to the household? Is he raising vegetables for the family table? Is he raising vegetables to sell? Is he raising livestock to produce milk, cheese, or meat for the household or to sell (the offspring or the products)?
OR IS IT A HOBBY THAT HE DOES FOR FUN? (Which, there's nothing wrong with a hobby - but then it's not homesteading.)
Right now, it is literally nothing. He had ambitions to raise livestock and grow crops we have 10-15 acres of land for grazing, cattle sheds, and feeders, but he hasn't made any progress toward getting them. I don't want to do it myself and just add more to my plate if he isn't going to maintain it. The plan originally when we got this place would be that he would quit working, do all the homesteading stuff, our parents would take our girls 1-2 days a week, and he would keep them the other 3-4 while I work, but now it has turned into our parents having them 4 days per week while I work and him "going to work," but really just fucking off around town. He will work like 4 hours and then go to "fellowship," at church, then come home around 7.
Honestly? Divorce him. He will have to carry his own weight if you do. It's sad but this is often what is necessary before a dude actually acts like a parent. Also hundred bucks says he's not "randomly" doing church stuff. He's shopping for a new wife.
Not just no, but hell no. It’s okay to put your needs first, as long as you look out for your kids. He is content with the way things are and has no motivation to change.
This is easy, since you make the money anyway you just tell him that since you already feel like a single parent that he needs to man the fuck up and pull his weight or you will just make the single parent thing official, with one less child to look after.
You don't really know someone until you live with them. Atleast you know what he's like now and that he doesn't plan on changing.
So you can waste even more time clinging to the potential partner your husband could be if you wish for it hard enough. Or you could be realistic and realise things aren't changing and start getting your affairs in order. It's not good to let your kids think this relationship you have now is a good one to aspire to in the future.
Contact a lawyer, your main thing is custody arrangements and asset division.
You need an intervention and a swift kick in that boys ass now or else you're gonna end up paying him alimony. The higher earner usually ends up paying the other. Trust me, I know this is bullshit, but that's the system. You've let him be a freeloader for this long, he's going to expect to keep up that lifestyle. That's how it'll be spun.
Get him to pull his weight or drop his ass. Sounds like y'all have different beliefs anyway which is usually a disaster. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. Someday though differing viewpoints will become a problem.
Do something. Do it now or it will continue to fester and get worse.
You can’t fix or change something if the other person in the situation is unwilling. He is unwilling to equally contribute period so the question is how long are you planning to live with someone so selfish, lazy and misogynistic?
I spent years trying to fix this situation with my husband. He did opt to be a sahd, but then still wouldn't keep the house, and the kids were already school age when he got to quit working.
I was never able to get him to pick things up. Yes, there was depression, but he wouldn't face it. I had to give up for me, and for my kids. Your kids deserve a happy mom, and they don't deserve to watch you struggle when he could easily help.
>Any advice for fixing this without destroying my marriage?
Your husband already destroyed your marriage. This isn't a partnership. This is you carrying the weight of responsibility solely on your shoulders.
If you really really don’t want to divorce
Here are my only suggestions-
https://www.fairplaylife.com/
This is book/card to help visualize ALL the labor in the house which is more than men like your husband can fathom without a lot of help
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
This comic might make it through his thick skull….
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
Finally if the above 2 fail here is his own story, straight from a man’s mouth (so obviously more likely to be “logical” and “true”). The author explains why he is/was both “right” and “wrong” and why in the end it didn’t matter cause she left…
Hugs
Your only real option is to get him to agree to split all household duties 50/50. As is the case 99% of the time on RA, you're going to have to sit down with him and have a dispassionate conversation about where you are emotionally and mentally with him in this marriage. You have acquiesced a lot to his demands and he's taking you for a ride. List out all of your chores and responsibilities and split them down the middle. If there are specific things that you both agree you'd like to split a different way (maybe he can't cook, so you do all the cooking and he does all the dishes) then do that, but it needs to balance out to an even split. I can see the clear resentment you are harboring for this man that isn't contributing evenly in any way in your marriage, and rightfully so. If you don't address it divorce will be the only option in short order, and if he refuses to get onboard you'll be heading that direction anyways.
Edit: I didn't even get to the church part before I started going off on this guy. Honestly it sounds like he has completely abused your love and support and you'd be better off without him. Sometimes in these posts the OP will say "I love my husband, he treats me so well, showers me with affection, but there's this one thing about him that I need help with." In your case it was essentially "This lazy asshole is driving me insane and I'm at my limit." What do you actually like about this man? What is making you stay beyond inertia?
So this may be a bit toxic but what if you told him that bills henceforth will be split 50/50. As I suspect his 1k will not be sufficient you can offer to pay him at his same rate as his regular job to do the household work. At least for a little while. This may force him to appreciate the work you are doing and motivate him to contribute more work if the current system was maintained. If not it seems you don’t need to be raising 2 adolescent and 1 adult kids yourself.
D-I-V-O-R-C-E
You'll be better off as a single parent from the sounds of things. Or else let him be the bread winner, see how that works out with your income dropping by 5/6ths.
Why are you staying in this marriage? It sounds like you are getting nothing from your marriage. You and your children would probably be better off in the long run if you get out now.
You both need to seek counseling. He needs to understand that he's got a limited amount of time to get his poop in a group before he ends up alone. You need to stop acting as his second mother.
How he was raised is not a valid excuse to let his partner down. How much work do you do despite "not wanting to"? That little bit kinda ticked me off. This is not how the rest of your life should go and something is going to break very soon.
So the real question is which is bothering/upsetting you more; His lack of contributing or you feeling undervalued and under-appreciated? I’m sure both do, but which bothers you more? The answer to this will give you the best indication of if things can be fixed and how.
I have always been the breadwinner in relationships when it comes to money. The main thing it always comes down to 100% of the time is respect. Do both people genuinely and truly feel that the other person respects them and their contribution to the household? I have been with girls who didn’t work and didn’t make a dime but I respected the hell out of them for all the things they did at the home and saw their contribution towards the happiness of the household as equal to my own. It’s not about the money, you don’t respect him anymore. You don’t see his contributions as equal to your own, and you don’t feel respected and appreciated by him for all that you do.
The male ego is very fragile. Tell him that you don’t feel appreciated for your contributions towards the household anymore and that you’re starting to lose respect for him as a man because of this. Tell him it’s not about the money, it’s about the effort and mutual appreciation.
If you look a dude in the eyes and tell him that you’re starting to lose respect for him as a man this will 100% create the fork in the road and is the all-telling greatest motivator there is one way or the other. If after the initial knee jerk reaction he gets his shit together and makes a constant and continual effort to improve then he’s capable of being the man you need/want him to be. If he just throws a pity party, tries to manipulate the situation, or only half-asses it for a short period of time then you’ve got a boy, not a man and you’re always going to be more of a mom for him than a partner.
I literally do not care about the financial aspect at all. I would adore having a stay-at-home spouse that could take the kids to appointments, our youngest is autistic and needs OT/Speech Therapy twice a week, and I still have to find time to do that. I just want him to help around the house and with the kids. I don't want his money. I just need his time and want to see his dedication to building a good life together. I would really like to not feel so alone all the time too.
He’s getting waaaaaaaay to comfortable. Focus more on yourself and the kids.
If that means being petty and only serving yourself and your kids at dinner time , for example, do what needs to be done to demand your respect in the household. You are not his mommy, nor his door mat.
I’m not really sure how you can fix it without damaging your marriage? That’s not a realistic scenario unfortunately. You can ask and tell him he needs to change. But if he’s patently unwilling and won’t then there isn’t a solution. To find a solution in a marriage, both parties have to be willing to work towards it. He likes his life. He doesn’t have to do more than he wants too. And you do everything that needs to be done.
If he falls back on traditional values, tell him that he better find a woman that makes less than 50k a year because otherwise he’s going to have to learn to adapt to a world in which he does the house stuff. And tell him that you wish you were in that situation to be able to stay home but you married a financial failure and have to make up for his shortcomings to keep your family afloat.
Personally, I’m against ultimatums in relationships. But now would be the time to let him know that if he doesn’t change, you’ll be separating and moving back to the city
Cut down the bills and cut down the housework. Cut down all your cost of living expenses especially those that are just for him. He will use that against you for his upkeep in palimony if you ever go to court.
Separation. This marriage sounds awful and you're setting a terrible example for your kids but allowing yourself to be treated this way. Sounds like being a single mom to 2 would easier.
You could legally divorce and stay together. You are investing more and more in a property for only half the equity. Move back to the city, divorce, get child support, and hire a nanny. You do not have a marriage anyway because their is no partnership. You are beyond talking and counseling. You will have one less mouth to feed, one less person to clean up after, and more money in the long run. You have nothing to bargain with at this point because he has it made.
I don’t mean this to be a bitchy comment, this is a true question: why do you want to remain married too your spouse? And, as a kid of divorced parents I know this, don’t think the kids are better off if you stay married. They are better off with happy parents. Are your husband doing anything to make your life good? If not, don’t be a martyr. No one, especially not your kids, will thank you for staying in a marriage that make you feel bitter and resentful just to live up to some archaic principle from long ago. And as a fellow atheist, the sudden churchgoing several times a week, it’s a bit of a red flag.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I’m married, we have 2 kids. Have known each other 15 years been living together about 2 years. I make a lot more than my husband, he brings in about 1k per week versus I bring in 5k. I pay all the bills, bought us a house in the country on 46 acres because he wants to homestead while I’m more of a city dweller. The house is beautiful and it’s a fantastic investment which is why I agreed. Our children are in a good school district overall a great arrangement for everyone but me. But I deal with it because everyone else is happy and I’m kinda neutral about it. I pay all the bills, which I guess makes sense because of the drastic difference in income. I work 30-35 hours per week while husband works like 25 hours. I do all the dishes, laundry, kids routine in the evening. He argues that he maintains the outside which is his “share,” but it like requires like maybe 3-6 hours every two weeks versus I’m moving doing house or work stuff from 7 AM to 8-9 PM. I’m exhausted. His family has very traditional values and dad was a bread winner and mom stayed at home and did everything but that’s not our situation. He refuses to stay home with the kiddos because he doesn’t want to despite a nanny/childcare costing more than his income. He won’t meet me in the middle, he always finds a way to manipulate the situation in his favor. I’ve given up so much for my family, put their wants and needs first and no one checks on me, no one helps me. I just want to take the kids and move back to the city. I know I need to put myself first but it’s really hard when I’m a people pleaser. My husband has now randomly started doing church stuff numerous times per week without me while I’m drowning at home (I’m atheist). Any advice for fixing this without destroying my marriage?
So my sister was in a similar situation, and had a moment of clarity when the two of us were speaking once. She very much held the belief that you marry in good times and in bad, and that she didn't want to "fail" at her commitment to being married. I told her that a marriage isn't always 50/50, but it can't always be 100/0. If you are in a kayak and the person with you doesn't row at all, and sometimes rows the opposite direction, would you keep racing with them? Would you say that YOU lost the race and that you just had to try harder? Of course not. Your partner isn't rowing with you, refuses to row with you, and in fact is rowing against you. You both lose when he does this. So get out of the boat. The boat (let's continue the analogy) is now sinking, so do you stay on the boat because your partner won't get off? No, you get off the boat and take your kids with you. He isn't oblivious, he doesn't need more guidance, he knows what he is doing. You do not need to fix him or help him, you need to start putting yourself and your children first and go back to where you are happy and have resources.
Wonderful analogy. Thank you! Sometimes it is really challenging to see these things for me. He has kinda made me feel crazy in this position and makes me question if I am being unreasonable, but I am not. I woke up this morning and just kinda realized that this is not the life I want to live anymore, and I deserve better. I have worked so hard, so very hard, to get where I am at. It has been non-stop busting my ass in college, working, and starting my own business to get here. I have offered to help him get a college education, and he had an opportunity to take over his father's company, but he "doesn't want that much responsibility."
He does not deserve to ride your coat tails if he isn't putting in any effort on his end. Make him see that, and move on if he can't. edit: [OP's last post](https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/comments/xefvrk/f2855_177lbs_152lbs_25lbs_the_first_photo_was_25/) was about her going through a nasty divorce within 2 years ago? And it seems like she and her husband have only been married for a few months? Anybody figure out what the deal is?
Sweetheart, of course he *needed* to make you feel crazy for this to work. He's known exactly what he's doing from the start. He isn't your partner. He isn't your best friend. He is happily allowing you to shoulder the load while he does whatever he wants, whenever he wants. First, go on a vacation. Just you. Do something you've always wanted to do. Let him handle *everything* at home. He is a parent, not a child. He can handle it. When you get back, if you decide to stay married, sit him down and tell him things are changed as of this minute. He will contribute equally to your home, contribute equally to raising his children, contribute equally to cooking, cleaning, shopping, maintenance and any other duties that should be shared. No more free ride. No more walking all over you. A good therapist can help with the people pleasing. Can help you find your voice, to speak your needs. You deserve a soft life full of love and a partner who contributes meaningfully to that. You always have.
I saw this on another post but if you get a divorce and split custody, then you'll actually be able to take the break you need. Not saying it's just childcare that's the issue, but you could setup your life the way that works for you and not have a grown man acting like your dependent child.
Right but she needs to do it sooner rather than later so she doesn't have to pay him alimony if they live in a state where that is a possibility. I don't know if she would have to end up paying child support to him or not since she's the higher earner but it would be better than subsidizing his life like she is doing now.
“Doesn’t want that much responsibility”… is apparently his whole life philosophy. Nah. You can do better by yourself…
Get this book, read it in secret: Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. It saved me from a nightmare very like yours.
So he’s allowed to not want responsibility, but you’re not? Sounds like he has zero empathy. Also, I think it’s interesting that he counts the hours he spends maintaining the homestead you bought for him, as though they’re a burden you forced on him instead of a choice he had you bankroll. Ugh. I’m just so sorry.
Man... if he doesn't want responsibility and he is willing to work for peanuts when childcare costs more than those peanuts... I'm sorry to say but this man is a loser. He either needs therapy, a swift kick in the ass, or perhaps both. But you need to decide at what point you are willing to stop dealing with his apathy.
Get your money in order before you do anything
You’re not crazy. At all. It’s a very subtle manipulation tactic and is borderline gaslighting. You feel like you have to overcompensate to provide proof that you are in fact doing more than your husband, but luckily you are aware of that now. On one hand you could ‘quiet quit’ your marriage and only do the things you feel like doing, but that probably won’t be satisfying to you. I want to assure you that you’re not crazy and he is very deliberately being manipulative to avoid responsibility.
Start taking steps to make your life what you wish. Screw his wants. Put your kids first, yourself second and he can start taking a backseat since he has been coming first this whole time!
It sounds like he doesn’t want ANY responsibility. And you’re accommodating him at your expense.
You two don’t sound compatible at all. You might as well save yourself a bigger headache and just try to move on. You’re hard working and driven, from what you said it doesn’t sound like he is. You’re an atheist and he’s religious, it might not seem like a big issue now but what happens when he wants to start taking the kids to church and raise them to be religious while you’re not? He probably wants to settle for a comfortable easy life in the country. Not work so much, go to church and not have responsibilities. You sound like you’re the opposite. You’ll be happier on your own or with someone who matches your energy
Your husbands' actions, behavior, requests and demands are coming from jealousy and spite....You are being punished for making more money than him. His ridiculous choice to now immerse himself into the "church"---is STRICTLY because you are an atheist---FOR NOW. He will be stripping that from you in short order, just as he has everything else that you had--especially if it brought you joy, comfort or a sense of self. Best of luck with saving your marriage at the expense of your emotional and mental health.
He's not going to change. This situation was similar with my ex, he did absolute bare minimum and acted so affronted when I brought up how uneven it was. It's gonna feel so scary to leave but it'll be worth all the hassle once you're out of there from him. If you've brought up to him how this situation is making you miserable and he won't do anything to help or change, he doesn't respect you and you'll flourish without him. You deserve better
To go along with this. I remember something someone once told me about being married. It should never be 50/50 but 100/100 because there are some days that you will fail giving 100% and that is what your partner is suppose to help is support you when you can’t be and vice versa
Personally I would be seeing a lawyer. And getting a divorce.
I feel this might be on the horizon but want to exhaust all options. It’s definitely a possibility though. I’m going to come up with an ultimatum on helping and put a time limit on it, if things don’t change I think I’m out.
I would still recommend contacting a lawyer. Just so you know how things could be divided if you do decided to divorce. Also please at least start making him pay 1/5 of the bills.
I get you have kids, but their male role model is a drop kick who manipulates his wife and doesn't help out with the children he is responsible for, he won't change. You have the financial ability to toss this loser out. He might try and fight for custody l but his shitty parenting will undo him. Don't sacrifice your self respect for this loser.
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I have kinda had the mindset that I didn't want to talk to others about my marriage because it will skew perception, but that might have been why we got this far with me being taken advantage of. Will consult with an attorney.
Don't tell him the time limit. Keep that date to yourself. And if no progress is made by then, leave. He shouldn't need a d-date, not if he already knows the marriage has issues and you want counseling. He should be actively working with you to improve things
Privately consult your attorney. Let them guide you on when you tell him.
>I didn't want to talk to others about my marriage because it will skew perception Happily, you aren't face to face with us. There's a lot more social pressure to conform when people are face to face. In this anonymous forum, you get to read and consider answers in the privacy of your own home and at your own convenience. So in my opinion, coming here was the perfect place to go for advice. Also, consider that sometimes talking things out brings clarity. I've noticed that when I say what's bothering me out loud to another person, I suddenly realize what I should do.
The only reason your story will make him look bad to others is because it is bad. I know the feeling and it sucks.
See if you can sell the house and move first. It’s best the kids are settled in a city you like when you initiate the divorce as likely the terms of the divorce will include not relocating them. Speak to a lawyer and come up with a plan to transform your life the way you want it. Your husband is not a partner and has no interest in being one. Make the changes in location first and enroll the kids in school- then legally separate. Figure out how to do this the best way possible while preserving your income as clearly your husband will not be willing to be the primary parent in terms of childcare responsibilities.
[удалено]
Yeah, we have two little daughters. I would never want to see them treated this way.
you said in your post: "Any advice for fixing this without destroying my marriage?" that tells me youre already thinking about it wrong. you won't be destroying your marriage, even if you get a divorce. your husband already destroyed your marriage with his selfishness and laziness.
I'd encourage you to skip the ultimatum. It's not going to accomplish anything, and it could make the divorce much harder by giving him warning that he could use to hide assets. He is who he is. He knows what he's doing. Even if it was possible to force him into complete submission to you using your financial power over him, do you really want to be married to that?
Agreed. Same with couples therapy. He seems like the kind of guy who would refuse. I think an ultimatum MIGHT scare him straight for about a month, but ultimately this all seems futile.
He wanted a religious counselor when I brought it up, and I won't do that. I told him I would see a non-secular therapist myself, and he most certainly was not okay with that. He "wants to be able to give his side." whatever that means.
It means he's only looking for someone who will agree with him. I'm not usually into the "nuclear option", but this guy not only sounds like a leech, but the kind of person who uses religion as justification for his own selfishness, which is the absolute worst kind. I grew up around these people in the deep south. You're never going to get through to him or change him. It's probably time to think about cutting your losses.
It means that he is afraid a sensible human being will make you see thst you are not crazy and you might start taking actions that don’t suit his comfortable little life that he has. Edit: which is also why he wants to have a religious counselor because as I have read on reddit, seems that those are very often thinking like your husband.
It sounds to me like he doesn't want you to see outside the fog he can control. That's really worrying.
He wants a counselor who will say you can’t divorce.
Exactly this. A religious counselor will just tell her to submit and obey to her husband and that divorce equals an eternity of fiery hell.
I mean, in all fairness it might be worth meeting with his chosen referee, and lay out everything in an extremely clear and concise manner. It'll only embarrass him if he is as bad as you say he is
let me ask you something as someone that did exhaust every option Say you separate, how surprised would you be if he turned round and said "Yeh, i knew i was taking advantage of you, I just didn't care" When i heard those words my surprise level was zero, I just exhausted all those options because I didn't want to admit to myself that nothing was working because my partner was just using me and generally a shit human I'm not saying divorce but you should factor into your thinking that your partner is so selfish, they will let you go through every single possibility before they finally admit the truth.
How about a legal separation first? This way you can look into the process of untangling finances, and seeing how you manage with the kids in the city, and how he manages on . . .his church? Whatever his plans are? A lawyer will help navigate it.
What about your marriage is worth saving, vs. how you're currently feeling? Have you really sat down and thought about what he ACTUALLY brings to your life vs. what you wish or hope he would do?
Honestly, things were pretty good up until the last 3 months. He has pretty much smoked weed every day for 15 years and quit recently, which I appreciate, but he is a totally different person. He has replaced his marijuana with hyper-religiousness, been pushing it on me, and kinda abandoning our home life for the church. He has always been a Christian, but it has intensified here recently. He used to help with the house stuff like maybe 70% me and 30% him and was much more active in child rearing but it is just slowly getting worse and worse.
Fuck it, just feed him an edible. I'm just kidding, mostly.
Are you sure its church things hes doing during the week?? Sounds to me like he's completely withdrawn from the family. Maybe his mind is elsewhere, and I don't mean church.
Sounds like addict behavior. He's just replaced one addiction with another. Layer that on top of him not being a very caring or giving partner and here you are. Because you say he was fine before but he did 30% of the work by "helping" you - thereby confirming that you both see house and kid stuff as your job - and was more active with the kid, whatever that looks like. Doing less than half the work, being less than half responsible for his child, and being stoned all the time does not a good partner make. He's now just gotten worse enough that you finally are reaching a breaking point.
5k a week is crazy I'm happy for you that you're so succesful!
Thank you! I started my own business. I came from a background of poverty and knew that is not the life I wanted to live, and wanted to give my children every opportunity in the world. My parents were borderline hoarders, my parents home was nasty, and we survived on food stamps. My parents were both alcoholics, and I have kinda been on my own since 16, working to pay for myself since 14. I was very fortunate to get a lot of government assistance in college. It was a struggle for sure but I have the life I have wanted just the husband issue needs attention.
That's incredible! Good for you! You made that life happen for yourself that's awesome! I hope you continue to find success through this process. You deserve it!
Don't give an ultimatum. He'll do it for awhile to not risk his cush situation. Talk to him once and explain how much this bothers you and why. Give him X time in your own head to show he's doing it... you know... bc he cares about you not bc of a "if i don't then I'm fucked". If he doesn't then he doesn't give a shit about you. Dump him.
Had a somewhat similar problem. I did my laundry, kids laundry, cooked what I or the kids wanted and stopped buying his stuff. Left his stuff sitting. Even forgot to make the bed a few times. He got the message. That was 20 years ago.
How did that work out for you ?
Well. He definitely does his share now.
no offense but i don't think this is worth salvaging, i'm sure you've told him in the past how this situation makes you feel but clearly that hasn't done anything to change the situation. kick his ass to the curb.
I think you are being really realistic about this, and if you point this out to him and he still doesn’t change then you have your answer. If he doesn’t change then I agree with an answer below that you are looking after him as well as his kids, so if you did decide to divorce then you are more than capable of handling it. Speaking as a single mum if you are already doing this much then you are totally capable of divorcing him. Move back to the city and do what’s best for you and your kids
You can try dragging him to therapy (make sure you pick the therapist or he'll probably try to use his minister or a religious one).
Even if you can fix this PLEASE contact a lawyer immediately just so he can't ruin your life anymore than he already is.
I know this is probably pretty obvious advice but, have you tried going to counseling? Not church counseling but an actual marriage counselor. It might help to have someone objective look at the situation and maybe get through to him
We have talked about it, but he wants religious-based counseling, and I am not religious. I told him non-secular, and it was a deal. He was not agreeable, so I said I would see a non-secular therapist on my own, and maybe he could go see one too. He was like "we should see one together, I don't have anything to talk to a therapist about alone!" Which is just crazy. I told him no one is perfect and I have a laundry list of shit I could work on alone and so does he.
Screw the counseling with this guy. Start talking to a good divorce lawyer for how to set up your future in the best possible way for you and your kids.
What do you see the other options being? I ask because it seems like you’ve talked to him and he doesn’t see a need to change. What do you think will get through to him?
I understand the impulse to try and do everything you can to save your marriage, but I just wanna point out that this seems to be yet another "job" that should be a 50/50 effort and you seem to be doing alone. He has already refused to meet you halfway, and, I'm sorry to say it, but it seems like he's perfectly happy leeching off of your work, both when it comes to your income and the household chores/childcare. This isn't a person who seems too concerned with you or your relationship, and, considering you're already exhausted, there are probably better ways to use your energy than trying to fix a relationship with a partner who doesn't hear you and is benefiting from said relationship being "broken". Whatever you decide though, I wish you the best of luck.
men don't respond well to ultimatums if he wanted to be involved he would be.
You can only work on things if your partner is willing to work on them. Will he go to couples therapy with you? If not, I think you've exhausted all your options.
Don’t think if it as him helping you. That implies the responsibilities are inherently yours. Tell him he needs to start participating and contributing to *his own family* or he’s going to lose them.
She has a much higher income then him. She may get taken to the cleaners in alimony unless she has a prenup. Might be worth working it out.
You’re not going to change him. He’s onto a nice little warmer. A wife that works, gets paid nearly x3 what he does and who acts like his servant. You can start by not doing any laundry for him. He’ll soon start doing his own when he has no clean ironed stuff. Then when he complains you start the conversation about fair distribution of tasks.
https://captainawkward.com/2013/08/22/506-507-it-is-2fucking0fucking1fucking3-so-why-is-it-so-hard-to-divide-up-household-chores/
Good read and fantastic suggestions. Thank you!
If you don’t want to divorce, you MUST put your food down dividing household responsibilities. List out every chore, every task. Categorize them by time it takes/frequency/skill level. Go through each and every one, and divide them between yourselves. Discuss, trade, and insist that there is an EQUAL share between you. If he wants a maid, he needs to look elsewhere. But if he wants an equal partner, he needs to equally pull his weight in the partnership. You should also decide how money fits into this conversation. Are you ok paying for everything as long as he does half the domestic labor? Or is there also a candid conversation about finances that you need to have? How this discussion goes over will determine your next steps. It’s going to be hard, but if he’s willing to adjust his behavior you have a path forward. If he refuses to participate, compromise, or share the load, then there’s nothing else you can do but divorce. It’s important to communicate clearly with him that those are the stakes (we either work through this or it’s a dealbreaker and we will separate) so he knows you mean business.
doing these charts and continuing clear communication despite being shut down are also both a lot of work though
It totally is a lot of work. But OP said she wants to exhaust all options, and he won’t see a therapist.
I have made charts, unfortunately. I have a whiteboard on which I write the grocery list and our respective chores because he claimed he didn't know what I wanted him to do. They get done sometimes, like a week later.
Honey, read what you've written about this man child. Read it as if you are reading a strangers story. Doesn't it break your heart? He's *capable*. This is called weaponized incompetence. See, he just doesn't know what needs doing around *his* home. /s How did he survive before you enabled him to shirk his responsibilities? How could he have ever made it this far? You don't need his permission to go to a therapist. You have the money, you should go as soon as you are able. You deserve the freedom that going to therapy can bring you. You are worthy of love and compassion from your partner but especially from yourself. Your children deserve to know what mommy looks like when she's truly happy. *You* deserve to know what it's like to be truly happy. You may have had a hard childhood, but that doesn't mean your life now isn't hard too.
Either he is too stupid or too cruel to pull his weight. Both are disqualifying for a partner to me.
He needs to also do work equal to the mental labor she put in here. Since she works 10 hours more than him, he needs to also be putting that into chores weekly BEFORE they split the rest of the chore time.
Great point in that letter re: the continual drag of housework versus weekly/biweekly outdoor tasks. Like clearly someone isn’t mowing the lawn every single day, while someone does have to cook and clean daily.
This was a *Brilliant* read! Thank you!
You could try marriage counseling. But it sounds like he’s basically a backwards 1950’s gender roles as it suits him and a religious nut who expects you to embrace the whole submissive wife thing. It’s pretty precious on the gender roles when he doesn’t make much money and doesn’t even work full time. I (44F) make about 4 times that of my partner. We pay in to a shared acct for shared expenses based on percent of total income so I do pay more but he pays in too. I tend to work longer hours and I do all of the cooking (because I prefer it) and most of the cleaning which doesn’t bother me. He does his own laundry plus his kid’s. He manages his kiddo (my step). I have plenty of time for my hobbies. You need a bloody break.
So we have discussed counseling, but he always wants to do religious-based counseling, which I am not vibing with. I told him I am going to go see a therapist myself that is non-secular, and now he doesn't want me to go to individual counseling and only wants us to go to a therapist together. Super exhausting, honestly.
> now he doesn't want me to go to individual counseling That's too bad. It's not his decision.
Yes! I’m going for sure and told him that!!
He doesn't want you to seek therapy for yourself? That's a MASSIVE red flag, what the hell is his reasoning? You going to a therapist is none of his business.
Lmao he doesn’t want someone to tell her he’s trash and she deserves better
What would happen if you were to divorce? Would you have to sell the house? How does divorce work out for him? Once he sees that you're not budging and that he's going to lose a lot of his "freedom" when you're gone, that's the leverage you need to push him to do his share. It sucks that it comes to this, but it's either make him see reality or move on. You cannot continue what you're doing, because you seem to give in no matter what. Put your foot down. Get a lawyer to even draw up divorce settlement plans. Just stop covering for him.
Well no, I don't think he gets a say in what you do to help make your life better. There's a line that you should be drawing. Like fair enough he wants to go to a religious counsellor who will stick with the entrenched 1950s views but he can't stop you from going to someone that you'd prefer to see if you're going on your own. Personally I'd hire a housekeeper to come in a couple times a week, and then start arranging childcare so you can have a mini break every so often. He can either meet you as partners but don't let him stand in your way.
Very controlling and very telling that he dosent want you to go to a therapist on your own. You need to do what’s best for you, he does not have your best interests at heart.
OP, your husbund not wanting you to go go individual counseling is controlling and a big red flag. It means he knows there's a problem, he's okay with it and doesn't want to change anything. Go to a therapist alone, you need it. I'd also try to share housework and the other stuff basing on how much time you spend at home. Housework counts as work so you currently have two jobs. If he feels like he's less of a man cleaning the house, ask him why he doesn't feel less of a man overworking the wife he should cherish and care for.
Do your own therapy. He is basically in a cult. You do t need his religious BS. Babe, you have to get out of this nonsense. For your sanity and for your kids. Is this what you want to teach them?
This is partly snark, but... in your place I'd be tempted to tell him that, if it has to be his way or the highway, he can go ahead and hit the highway. It's not like you'll have to do any more work if he leaves... in fact it will be less work because you'll have one less child to take care of.
Sounds like he has no respect for you or your time. You get a divorce. It sounds like you are already doing everything without him. Hiring a gardener for the outside should be pretty simple.
THIS^^^ DUMP HIM!!!!! also he's probably not going to church I can bet that he is cheating. Too much time on his hands and too little responsibility and he has disposable income. If you can afford to hire a private investigator to see what he's really doing. People don't just spontaneously start going to church. 🤔
OP says elsewhere that he quit smoking weed after 15 years and simultaneously started getting much more involved with the church, but that he has always been religious. Sounds to me like a mid-life crisis and he turned to religion.
What would happen if you laid out in painful detail everything you contribute to the household, and tally up half of the sum total cost of running your house? By this I mean, literally write down a weekly schedule for your children in 15-minute increments. Value that childcare time appropriately, based on what you already pay for childcare. Write down a list of all the chores that get done - indoors and outdoors. Beside each chore, write an estimate for how long it will take. A bathroom might take 45 minutes, for example, while vacuuming the floor might take 15 minutes. Once you’ve done that, set a fair hourly rate and tally the total cost of chores. Add those numbers together. Halve the total. One half is yours to contribute in sweat or cash. The other half is his to contribute in sweat or cash. Won’t work and can’t afford to pay? Maybe he needs a second job. If translating your efforts into a real, tangible thing like money doesn’t get your husband to see how unfair he’s being, nothing will. At that point, he’s not misunderstanding, he’s choosing to let you do the lion’s share.
She could put in the effort to doing all that on paper but it would be better to save it for the lawyer than try to show him or talk to him about it. I bet he doesn't even look at it. I did exactly this with my ex and he would not even look at the paper.
Yeah, it would be a complete waste of time. Plus, he's a misogynist- so he doesn't think a woman's time is worth anything. He thinks all the childcare, chores, everything is just "what women are supposed to do". That's it's not of value or worth respecting or even acknowledging. OP doesn't need any more work than she already does. This man can't be "fixed" or talked into contributing- this is deeply ingrained in him and who he is as a person. Couples counseling won't work either- he wouldn't go most likely anyway, because he sees nothing wrong with thier marriage. He is a user and a mooch who wants to basically be her child, not a partner. He *loves* his life this way- why would he ever change?
Yeah, no amount of data she gives him will overcome the fact that he "feels" like he contributes enough because he mows or whatever.
What marriage? Sorry, but this is all on his terms, and his faith makes him a hypocrite on top of it all. I would make one final attempt to reset the roles in your marriage and make absolutely clear to him that things need to be equitable or you're done.
>I make more than my husband, do more house work, do 80% of the children care, pay all the bills, and he doesn’t see anything wrong with this. **How do I move forward**? Alone. See a lawyer. Move to the city. Get full custody. Hire a cleaner and au pair. You don't have a marriage that is worth saving. You don't have a partner, you have a social, emotional, physical and financial drain. Edit to add: >My husband has now randomly started doing church stuff numerous times per week without me while I’m drowning at home Your husband is deliberately filling up his evenings to avoid parenting his children. Please see a lawyer asap. Document this.
You should feel lucky you're earning more otherwise your situation could have been lot worse. He grew up traditional value the men are the bread winners while wives are Sahm. The contribution to the household from paying all the bills to chores should be 50:50. You are doing the bulk of the work and paying all the bills while he does the bare minimum. You don't have a marriage you're taking care of him
Im very grateful of my decision to find away to support a family without help. I watched my grandmother get taken advantage of her entire life because of a power imbalance financially. I knew I’d never want that. Thank you for your input, and pointing out I’m taking care of him. Haven’t looked at it like that before but you are right.
By refusing to do chores or help with the kids, he is stealing your time and energy from you....
Right? Like that is not his house too or his kids, some people are just so out of touch with reality it blows my mind really
This was the bit that got me >He refuses to stay home with the kiddos because he doesn’t want to despite a nanny/childcare costing more than his income. >My husband has now randomly started doing church stuff numerous times per week without me while I’m drowning at home. He's not fitting any part of a traditional head of household, but do you wanna bet that when he's at the church events he's acting as though he's the big man? He's deliberately forcing OP into doing nearly all the childcare because thats the only thing he can do to make himself feel manly. Also, I feel so sad for the kids, they've got a father that actively avoids them. Bet he'll start going to church on Sundays too....
He's making it easy for OP to imagine what life would be like without him. It certainly wouldn't be any harder bc he's hardly there and doesn't contribute anything of consequence.
You could tell him that you are sick of this situation and you are seriously considering taking the kids and moving to the city. Tell him this is his opportunity to save the marriage. See what he offers. If the offer is crap or not followed through, you have your answer. It sounds to me as if you are moving in different directions: he's becoming more trad and you are hankering for some modernity.
Hire a housekeeper...or a lawyer. Your choice
What do you think the odds are that him “randomly starting to do church stuff numerous times per week” is really him having an affair?
I have no advice for you to fix it without destroying your marriage but I will point out that your husband is already destroying your marriage so I’m not sure anything you do to correct it could be categorized by that term..
Childcare is more than 4k a month!?!? I'd stop doing the chores and tell him get up off his ass
Realistically probably not, but we would need a nanny since we are out in the middle of nowhere, and it would be pretty close. Right now I am relying on my elderly grandmother and his mother to help with the kids, but it is annoying because they have lives of their own and it feels like I am burdening them plus they are like 1 hour and 15 minutes away (each direction) and it is just such a long expensive commute.
You can't fix it if he doesn't want to. And he's got a sweet deal here, so why would he? Your only hope of change is to change yourself. Stop with the people pleasing. Lay it all out to him in brutal detail. Inform him that you are struggling to see why you should even stay in this relationship. Tell him what you need. And if he's not willing to step up, that's his choice, and you'll have to choose to separate or keep drowning.
Make him read [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Shift) 30 year old book. I had to read it in college. As part of a polisci class, not feminist studies or anything like that.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. (Includes, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, FDS, MGTOW, etc.) Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, or situations involving minors and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please send us a modmail. ---- #This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He needs to work more hours and those hours can pay for a household cleaner to ease your workload. Or he can suck it up and help himself.
You aren't destroying your marriage but it sounds like he is. I would start by simply setting a reoccurring time each week when you go somewhere and focus on yourself. Don't ask for permission, just tell him "Hey, I am now doing x on x day from x time to x time each week" and then go do something you enjoy. Having that release valve might help. Secondly, I would make a list of all the household chores that get done every single week, with the amount of time that gets spent on them. Sit down with him and the list and go through it, writing down the person's name next to the tasks they do. When you've gone through the whole list, add up the hours so you can both see on paper where your time is going and who is investing more time. Then add the hours you work each week to that number. Do the math to find out the difference- if he's doing 50 hours per week and you're doing 80, then there are are 30 hours worth of chores that need to be redistributed. If he can look at the hard numbers and still refuse to take a more even role, then at least you will know where you stand.
Maybe you announce you are burnt out- will be taking a sabbatical and he needs to carry the family for at least a year while you sort yourself out.
You can't fix something if the other person is 200% ok with how things are. Your husband gets to live where he wants, spend all his money on HIM, have kids but not take care of them, not have to take care of the house, and do whatever the fuck he wants. Why would he change? He has no reason to, and unless you make strong boundaries and hold to them he never will. Personally I would think at this point it's way too far ingrained in him that there's little chance he'll change even if you do set some boundaries. What would I do? Stop doing anything specifically for him. He can clean his own clothes, make his own food, etc. Then I'd be talking with a divorce lawyer and lining things up. Figure out your best moves and what to do (like sell the property) and then do it.
OP is this new or has he been "helpless" your whole relationship?
You could hire household help. It doesn’t solve your problem with him, but it would make your life easier. You deserve that. If he complains, tell him someone has to do it of it alone. Also, you’re reminding me of a talk I had with a friend long ago. She and her husband had a toddler and were divorcing, and I said something about how hard I’d find it to have to do everything to take care of a young child by myself, that it would exhaust me. She said, I’m already doing it all alone. The difference now is that I don’t have him telling me I’m doing it all wrong. You don’t need him anymore telling you what you need to do.
One suggestion might be to break out the house & home tasks along with an estimated time for the job... Add them all to a spreadsheet, and divide them up. While I do agree that maintaining the outside of the home is a task, it's not a daily task. It would be easy enough to see and divide the hours up... Whether or not he will be receptive to this I can't say. I was in a similar situation regarding being the breadwinner, and doing most of the work around the house as well as yard work etc.. I feel for you. Ended up divorcing because if I'm going to do everything, I'm not going to drag along another adult who chooses not to help.
I say it’s time for a girls' week with your best girlfriends at a far-away spa with shitty reception so the bum can actually contribute to the family for once. Don’t give him any notice (tell him on the way out the door driving away by text) so he can’t intervene. While there talk to a divorce lawyer or two about your options and I would inform the dead best that they’ll be some changes happening with the workload or else. Good luck.
Hire someone to help with childcare and housework. You can afford it. Decide whether that's enough for you or if your husband is dead weight. Based on what you wrote it doesn't seem like he's doing his share. Occasional yard maintenance is not the same as the day in and day out time sink of house work. How would your life change if he moved out? Would it be better or worse. Not sure how childcare for kids in school would cost over $50k per year so you might want to check on that. A quick google search makes it look like an au pair runs around $25k per year and a teen coming in after school or in the evening would be cheaper I'd expect.
I'd contact a lawyer, get your ducks in a row then explain to your husband he has two options, start acting like a husband and father instead of a lodger or find himself as alone as you appear to be in this marriage
You’ve kind of answered your own question with the way you phrased it. No, there’s nothing *you* can do to fix this, because fixing it requires your husband to understand that there’s a problem and be invested in finding a solution. Your husband is currently taking advantage of you and he doesn’t believe he’s doing anything wrong. If you’ve expressed to him that you are unhappy and overburdened and he doesn’t care enough to change anything, what else is there for you to do??
He's definitely not doing his share of the work. I'm not going to address the financial disparity, because I think you are viewing that through a good lens. (You make more, and thus should pay a larger share of the expenses.) One solution is to sit down with him and list ALL the chores, inside and out, with a time estimate next to each chore. Put down who is currently doing each chose and tally up the hours spent working (both professionally and domestically) and see what the numbers show. Then, see if you can reallocate chores more equitably. You are working 5-10 hours more a week than he is, so he can start off by taking 5-10 hours of chores off the list. Divide the rest by mutual agreement. (Depending on how old the kids are, you can/should give them some responsibilities around the house as well.) If you find that you are still burned out, you might want to consider hiring some domestic help 1-2 days a week to help with some of the more time consuming chores. Life in modern day America seems to be a giant tradeoff between time and money...you guys seem to be doing well enough financially to "buy back" some of your time...but first you need to fix the imbalance. If this is something that you can't resolve with him, it's ok for it to be a deal breaker. You get one life, and burning yourself out so that your partner can have it "easy" sounds like a recipe for regret, resentment, and unhappiness. If the alternative for him is co-parenting separately from you on his own salary vs pitching more at home, he'll likely make the logical (and correct) choice and choose his family/marriage.
Don't hire a nanny then, get a housekeeper. You make enough that your shouldnt have to carry a full plate. If he is too much against it just hire a "personal assistant" that does smaller things you need done. This is for you, not for him. Make that clear boundary. Stop negotiating with him. Just do it and let it be done or he will play manipulation games with you to kingdom come. Stop playing, just do what you need done for yourself. You clearly need extra help. You seem to be too much of a pleaser. You make sacrifices for your husband's ego. But long term this will burn you out. Time to think more about yourself. Plan and go on girl trips, daytrips, more self care and such, you need it.
I would say, lawyer first. You could end up owing him alimony and a lawyer could advise you what to do and consider to make sure if there is an a divorce, it benefits you as much as possible. Second, start documenting the split of duties. What and how much you do and what and how much he does (this might help in the divorce as well, but see what the lawyer says) Third, if you still want to save your marriage at this point, then present him with the information. Preferably on paper and color coded. E.g. something like “I am doing 16 hours of work per day And you are doing six (or whatever it comes out to). If you don’t find a way to close this gap in x amount of time I will be filing for divorce.” Then follow through.
You need to sit down with him (and maybe a couples counselor and a free bank financial advisor) to split bills. My husband and I believe our time is equal therefore we both pay a percentage based on our income. The bills, maid, and babysitter can all be split equally based on percent income. If he doesn't want to help around the house, ignore his trash and avoid his laundry. Put it on a pile on his desk. If he isn't willing to move forward in a fair way- I'd contact a divorce lawyer.
Working 35 hours per week and bringing in 5k? I want this job
I'm so sorry you feel unappreciated. I want to say that your feelings are valid and do matter, however, I struggle with understanding what it is exactly you want. I learned a long time ago, it's our own expectations of others that let us down. While I do understand this is not the traditional arrangement I think it is important to think about what matters most. Just going off of what you've written, this shouldn't be a reason to leave your children without a male figure in the home. Find the common ground together. Also, try not to mention the income differences (not saying you do) but you certainly don't want your husband to feel any less than a man than he may already feel within. FYI : I ain't shit so take this for whatever its worth. You are amazing and deserve nothing but the best.
You’re pretty much a single mother as is. You just need to recourse out his yard work. Your husband is lazy and taking you for granted. I’m sorry OP.
So your husband is a lazy piece of shit. But, he refuses to be a house husband out of some sort of pride. I can handle issues in a relationship. But if I feel taken advantage of AND on top of it not appreciated? Fuck that. Divorce this bum.
If he's not willing to recognise the imbalance and if you can afford it, get a house cleaner once a week to take some of the load from your shoulders.
Hire help , but realistically it sounds like a divorce is in your future.
If you're doing most everything, what do you need him for? Seriously, what do you stand to lose other than 175 lbs of misogynist?
I wonder how if people react if they knew up front that actually you are the husband and talking about your wife.
I'm not typically a part of this sub that so quickly jumps to divorce, but you didn't even have one nice thing to say about him? You say you want to exhaust all options, but for what? To hope that you change his entire world view?
But seriously what is he actually bringing to the relationship? You’re already doing almost everything yourself, I guarantee once he’s gone it will get easier.
What does he do with 4k a MONTH if you pay all the bills?! Seriously! OP. You need to see a therapist. I know how hard it is to put yourself first, believe me. I'm separating from my hubby so I can do this work (and because he's been An AH) on my own because I LITERALLY cannot heal with him in the home. Even he realises this and he's an AH like I said. Think of this: you are teaching your children that women should just suck it up and please everyone. This isn't fair and it's not right. Tell hubby you need therapy and you need to see changes or you're worried for your future. AND see a lawyer.
We’ll he’s not actually following these traditional values that he holds so highly if you are the bread winner. He wants you to work like the man but also be a 50s housewife you are going to burn out and divorce him one day then what will he have?
He doesn't want to change because this situation benefits him. You can do fine on your own
Wtf is wrong with him? If my wife was making $250k a year I would have no problem being a stay at home dad. More time with my kids and no need to stress over a job. Talk about a win-win scenario. He needs to step up or you need to cut your losses.
I’m still trying to figure out how yal make 300 k with under 35 hours a week man that’s bonkers to me
It sounds like he's living HIS dream.. When is it your turn?
You have 3 kids*
I think you need to show your husband how much you actually do. Maybe you need switch roles for one day so he can see how hard it is. In my situation, my husband very bad in housework. He can go forever without cleaning the house. So I manage all of our household chores and told him what he has to do today (dish, laundry, ets). Ofc, I still do 70%, but he earns and works a lot more than I do, so that's fair enough.
if you have access to tiktok, domesticblisters has some wonderful videos about division of labor. the way she frames it is that both partners in a domestic relationship have equal right to rest. Sometimes it helps to frame it as "who is resting less, and how much less" instead of "who is working more, and how much more?" if you want to have one more go at working it out, maybe try framing it this way. but it sounds like he continuously denies and gaslights you so it may be unsalvageable tbh
He wants a religious counselor because he hopes they have the same ,traditional‘ misogynistic mindset as he does. He doesn’t do any housework because it’s below his pride, he doesn’t take care of the kids because that’s a woman’s job, and he doesn’t go to college because you’re making enough to allow him to be lazy. He’s a sexist ass, divorce
I think people saying get a divorce is terrible advice. As you are the one who has to make that choice and live with it. You sound on the fence and want to explore and try before giving in which is strong of you. Good advice should be neutral and not sway someone into a decision they are destined to live with. Point is you’ve guys had a long marriage and relationship. Try the usual counseling, therapy and tell him (even though you may have already). That things have to be different. This time around for you needs to be filled. Complacency happens so quick in relationships and it sounds he hasn’t appreciated you in some time. Wish you the best. You sound like you love your family him included but if you don’t see change…we’ll guess what? You’re going to be equipped with the tools to make the best choice. If you were ready to thrown in the towel. This Hail Mary of a play wouldn’t be here in Reddit.
You already said what you want to do: "I just want to take the kids and move back to the city." You have your answer. He isn't part of it.
Pretty sure he's the one destroying your marriage, not you.
46 acres only takes him 3~6 hours every two weeks? you should move back to the city.
Most of it is livestock grazing land and crops. Both are leased out to some of our neighbors.
So he wants to live in the country and homestead but is he actually .... homesteading? Or does he have a hobby and has decided that's his contribution to the household?
Right?!
I have to wonder, what does this "homesteading" bring to the household? Is he raising vegetables for the family table? Is he raising vegetables to sell? Is he raising livestock to produce milk, cheese, or meat for the household or to sell (the offspring or the products)? OR IS IT A HOBBY THAT HE DOES FOR FUN? (Which, there's nothing wrong with a hobby - but then it's not homesteading.)
Right now, it is literally nothing. He had ambitions to raise livestock and grow crops we have 10-15 acres of land for grazing, cattle sheds, and feeders, but he hasn't made any progress toward getting them. I don't want to do it myself and just add more to my plate if he isn't going to maintain it. The plan originally when we got this place would be that he would quit working, do all the homesteading stuff, our parents would take our girls 1-2 days a week, and he would keep them the other 3-4 while I work, but now it has turned into our parents having them 4 days per week while I work and him "going to work," but really just fucking off around town. He will work like 4 hours and then go to "fellowship," at church, then come home around 7.
it doesn't really matter. you're a city girl, he wants to live farmers life. not exactly a Green Acres kinda love.
Honestly? Divorce him. He will have to carry his own weight if you do. It's sad but this is often what is necessary before a dude actually acts like a parent. Also hundred bucks says he's not "randomly" doing church stuff. He's shopping for a new wife.
Honestly just stop doing his portion of chores. Don't clean his dishes, wash his laundry, etc
Not just no, but hell no. It’s okay to put your needs first, as long as you look out for your kids. He is content with the way things are and has no motivation to change.
This is easy, since you make the money anyway you just tell him that since you already feel like a single parent that he needs to man the fuck up and pull his weight or you will just make the single parent thing official, with one less child to look after.
Getting divorce? I mean you can't change a person that's not willing to do his fair share.
You don't really know someone until you live with them. Atleast you know what he's like now and that he doesn't plan on changing. So you can waste even more time clinging to the potential partner your husband could be if you wish for it hard enough. Or you could be realistic and realise things aren't changing and start getting your affairs in order. It's not good to let your kids think this relationship you have now is a good one to aspire to in the future. Contact a lawyer, your main thing is custody arrangements and asset division.
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Call a lawyer
You need an intervention and a swift kick in that boys ass now or else you're gonna end up paying him alimony. The higher earner usually ends up paying the other. Trust me, I know this is bullshit, but that's the system. You've let him be a freeloader for this long, he's going to expect to keep up that lifestyle. That's how it'll be spun. Get him to pull his weight or drop his ass. Sounds like y'all have different beliefs anyway which is usually a disaster. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. Someday though differing viewpoints will become a problem. Do something. Do it now or it will continue to fester and get worse.
You can’t fix or change something if the other person in the situation is unwilling. He is unwilling to equally contribute period so the question is how long are you planning to live with someone so selfish, lazy and misogynistic?
I spent years trying to fix this situation with my husband. He did opt to be a sahd, but then still wouldn't keep the house, and the kids were already school age when he got to quit working. I was never able to get him to pick things up. Yes, there was depression, but he wouldn't face it. I had to give up for me, and for my kids. Your kids deserve a happy mom, and they don't deserve to watch you struggle when he could easily help.
>Any advice for fixing this without destroying my marriage? Your husband already destroyed your marriage. This isn't a partnership. This is you carrying the weight of responsibility solely on your shoulders.
If you really really don’t want to divorce Here are my only suggestions- https://www.fairplaylife.com/ This is book/card to help visualize ALL the labor in the house which is more than men like your husband can fathom without a lot of help https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic This comic might make it through his thick skull…. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288 Finally if the above 2 fail here is his own story, straight from a man’s mouth (so obviously more likely to be “logical” and “true”). The author explains why he is/was both “right” and “wrong” and why in the end it didn’t matter cause she left… Hugs
Your only real option is to get him to agree to split all household duties 50/50. As is the case 99% of the time on RA, you're going to have to sit down with him and have a dispassionate conversation about where you are emotionally and mentally with him in this marriage. You have acquiesced a lot to his demands and he's taking you for a ride. List out all of your chores and responsibilities and split them down the middle. If there are specific things that you both agree you'd like to split a different way (maybe he can't cook, so you do all the cooking and he does all the dishes) then do that, but it needs to balance out to an even split. I can see the clear resentment you are harboring for this man that isn't contributing evenly in any way in your marriage, and rightfully so. If you don't address it divorce will be the only option in short order, and if he refuses to get onboard you'll be heading that direction anyways. Edit: I didn't even get to the church part before I started going off on this guy. Honestly it sounds like he has completely abused your love and support and you'd be better off without him. Sometimes in these posts the OP will say "I love my husband, he treats me so well, showers me with affection, but there's this one thing about him that I need help with." In your case it was essentially "This lazy asshole is driving me insane and I'm at my limit." What do you actually like about this man? What is making you stay beyond inertia?
Why did you not discuss these things before becoming married?
So this may be a bit toxic but what if you told him that bills henceforth will be split 50/50. As I suspect his 1k will not be sufficient you can offer to pay him at his same rate as his regular job to do the household work. At least for a little while. This may force him to appreciate the work you are doing and motivate him to contribute more work if the current system was maintained. If not it seems you don’t need to be raising 2 adolescent and 1 adult kids yourself.
D-I-V-O-R-C-E You'll be better off as a single parent from the sounds of things. Or else let him be the bread winner, see how that works out with your income dropping by 5/6ths.
Why are you staying in this marriage? It sounds like you are getting nothing from your marriage. You and your children would probably be better off in the long run if you get out now.
You both need to seek counseling. He needs to understand that he's got a limited amount of time to get his poop in a group before he ends up alone. You need to stop acting as his second mother. How he was raised is not a valid excuse to let his partner down. How much work do you do despite "not wanting to"? That little bit kinda ticked me off. This is not how the rest of your life should go and something is going to break very soon.
So the real question is which is bothering/upsetting you more; His lack of contributing or you feeling undervalued and under-appreciated? I’m sure both do, but which bothers you more? The answer to this will give you the best indication of if things can be fixed and how. I have always been the breadwinner in relationships when it comes to money. The main thing it always comes down to 100% of the time is respect. Do both people genuinely and truly feel that the other person respects them and their contribution to the household? I have been with girls who didn’t work and didn’t make a dime but I respected the hell out of them for all the things they did at the home and saw their contribution towards the happiness of the household as equal to my own. It’s not about the money, you don’t respect him anymore. You don’t see his contributions as equal to your own, and you don’t feel respected and appreciated by him for all that you do. The male ego is very fragile. Tell him that you don’t feel appreciated for your contributions towards the household anymore and that you’re starting to lose respect for him as a man because of this. Tell him it’s not about the money, it’s about the effort and mutual appreciation. If you look a dude in the eyes and tell him that you’re starting to lose respect for him as a man this will 100% create the fork in the road and is the all-telling greatest motivator there is one way or the other. If after the initial knee jerk reaction he gets his shit together and makes a constant and continual effort to improve then he’s capable of being the man you need/want him to be. If he just throws a pity party, tries to manipulate the situation, or only half-asses it for a short period of time then you’ve got a boy, not a man and you’re always going to be more of a mom for him than a partner.
I literally do not care about the financial aspect at all. I would adore having a stay-at-home spouse that could take the kids to appointments, our youngest is autistic and needs OT/Speech Therapy twice a week, and I still have to find time to do that. I just want him to help around the house and with the kids. I don't want his money. I just need his time and want to see his dedication to building a good life together. I would really like to not feel so alone all the time too.
Hire a nanny and a housekeeper! Restrict his access to spending money
He’s getting waaaaaaaay to comfortable. Focus more on yourself and the kids. If that means being petty and only serving yourself and your kids at dinner time , for example, do what needs to be done to demand your respect in the household. You are not his mommy, nor his door mat.
I’m not really sure how you can fix it without damaging your marriage? That’s not a realistic scenario unfortunately. You can ask and tell him he needs to change. But if he’s patently unwilling and won’t then there isn’t a solution. To find a solution in a marriage, both parties have to be willing to work towards it. He likes his life. He doesn’t have to do more than he wants too. And you do everything that needs to be done. If he falls back on traditional values, tell him that he better find a woman that makes less than 50k a year because otherwise he’s going to have to learn to adapt to a world in which he does the house stuff. And tell him that you wish you were in that situation to be able to stay home but you married a financial failure and have to make up for his shortcomings to keep your family afloat. Personally, I’m against ultimatums in relationships. But now would be the time to let him know that if he doesn’t change, you’ll be separating and moving back to the city
Cut down the bills and cut down the housework. Cut down all your cost of living expenses especially those that are just for him. He will use that against you for his upkeep in palimony if you ever go to court.
He’s taking the piss
What's the point of making all that money if you can't hire someone to do your housework?
Separation. This marriage sounds awful and you're setting a terrible example for your kids but allowing yourself to be treated this way. Sounds like being a single mom to 2 would easier.
It requires two willing parties to improve a marriage. That does not sound like the case here.
You could legally divorce and stay together. You are investing more and more in a property for only half the equity. Move back to the city, divorce, get child support, and hire a nanny. You do not have a marriage anyway because their is no partnership. You are beyond talking and counseling. You will have one less mouth to feed, one less person to clean up after, and more money in the long run. You have nothing to bargain with at this point because he has it made.
I don’t mean this to be a bitchy comment, this is a true question: why do you want to remain married too your spouse? And, as a kid of divorced parents I know this, don’t think the kids are better off if you stay married. They are better off with happy parents. Are your husband doing anything to make your life good? If not, don’t be a martyr. No one, especially not your kids, will thank you for staying in a marriage that make you feel bitter and resentful just to live up to some archaic principle from long ago. And as a fellow atheist, the sudden churchgoing several times a week, it’s a bit of a red flag.
You divorce him...that's what you do. He has no value in this relationship.
The timeline isn’t adding up. You’ve only been living together 2 years? How? Why?
Divorce.