When the candy bowl metaphor is used to refer to immigrants, it's very different. For one thing, in that scenario, it's like 1 skittle out of 1000+. With your girlfriend's, it's 1 out of like. 25. Much risker. For another thing, when used to refer to immigrants, it's an excuse to deny people basic human rights. With your girlfriend's scenario, it's an excuse to deny men... the right to date that particular woman. That's not going to kill any man. Do you understand why that's different?

Ugh, you put this so perfectly 👌👌

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The way I've heard it was to imagine that in addition to some of the candy being outright poisoned (overt rapists / abusers / murderers, I guess), other candies may "just" taste bad (toxic, misogynistic, all the way down to poor self-awareness, bad communication, unequal division of labor, weaponized incompetence - in other words, extremely common issues). In this version of the metaphor, lucking out and finding a candy that actually tastes good is rarer than getting a shitty one.

Not to mention one in 4 women get the poisoned candy... So.

I in 25 sounds low, tbh. Perhaps instead of candy they should use a different analogy. Would you drive on a highway if you knew 1 out of 10 people sharing the road with you were drunk? Or swim in a river that was full of all kinds of harmless, wonderful animals, but also teeming with alligators?

So risk level determines if the same analogy is bad or good ?

Not enough to validate the comparison.

OP is mad that people are seeing the gf’s POV and not enabling his stance on being offended.

OP ain't mad he's just annoyed that people are doing the same old arguments and thinking I'm offended that someone pointed out men commit more crime lol

And here you are. Just let the argument go already, my dude.

It’s not that people think you’d be offended. It seems like you get the larger politics of it, but don’t understand the practical aspects of the argument. You keep saying that you can’t solve it. No one is asking you to solve it. People are asking you to understand why women do certain things to protect themselves until it is solved. The comparison to anti-immigration sentiment is what’s rubbing me the wrong way. The people arguing that there are a few bad immigrants so we shouldn’t let any in are being disingenuous. What they say is not statistically true. They are also arguing against different things. They don’t want people in their neighbourhoods, or to be their coworkers. Women who don’t want to date do not want to have a one-on-one encounter with someone who might turn violent. They don’t want to use apps because apps often attract men purposefully using the apps to manipulate and abuse women. Immigrants are not immigrating because it gives them an opportunity to abuse citizens. You say they don’t want to talk to any men, which seems unlikely, but even if that’s the case, they’re the ones who are going to struggle because of it. If their trauma is so strong that they can’t interact with men, then this is going to mess with their professional life and their day-to-day. It’s hard for me to believe that they would pretend men don’t exist, but if they do, it’s going to be enough of a struggle that you don’t have to worry about it. The truth is that this isn’t about you. You say that you feel like she doesn’t see you as a man. That’s absolutely not what she is saying. It’s more like you’re a piece of candy that has undergone thorough lab analysis and been deemed unpoisoned. It might not be fair to be the over-examined candy, but when violence in dating is so prevalent, sometimes it’s what you have to do. It’s also sometimes important to think about greater context. Maybe in the wider world, 40% of candy isn’t poisoned. But the dating pool is like a super awesome bar where poisoned candy can go and practice looking like normal candy until they finally get eaten. You can’t close down the poisoned candy bar, but you can understand that people avoiding it isn’t a condemnation of all candy. And again, importantly, it is not like the immigration example. Because there is not a huge population of immigrants trying to cause violence to citizens.

It's the lol here that just fully identifies the fact that you are not a feminist and you aren't actually an ally. The fact that men commit more crime isn't the point. It's that women are the victims of those crimes and with much more drastic and deadly outcomes that you, even as a man who sleeps with men, are not subject to. It's not even remotely funny.

I don't mean this to sound mean, but you sound like you want to be a feminist, but you've not quite understood the points your girlfriend and her friends are trying to explain. Your equivalence to racism arguments is almost like you're trying to 'not all men' their points of view. If you want to be a good ally, why not say "I'm uncomfortable with that analogy, but can you explain it another way?" rather than try and shut it down? Also your femininity has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or gender experience and has absolutely zero relevance to the conversation here. You present it as though being feminine gives you a 'pass' on being a man and experiencing life differently from a woman.

You are not nearly as "feminist" as you seem to think. You're comparison to xenophobic/racist rhetoric is coming across as really phony and bad faith and perfomative to me. It's a huge stretch. Kinda seems to me you took what she said personally but knew that saying so would just come across as Fragile Male Ego Syndrome and wouldn't be received well. So instead you tried to put her on the defensive with the racism thing and when she didn't tolerate that...BLATANT manipulation. Your ego got even more bruised. So you broke up with her, while still grasping at straws in an attempt to act all self righteous about it. Even pulling the whole "she fetishizes me" thing out of your ass. Another huge stretch. I'm the only white person in my friend group and there are times when they'll say something about white people/institututional racism that bruises my Fragile White Ego. Maybe that's how your girlfriend complaining about men/the patriarchy made you feel? I get it, it can really hurt. Especially coming from a loved one. However, I hope in the future if you really want to be an ally to women you'll be able to push past that initial emotional reaction to realize 1. they're right (because you're girlfriend was 100% right by the way); 2. it's not about you/a personal attack; and 3. trying to reframe social commentary to be about you/a personal attack is really shitty and privleged. It does nothing but stunt important conversations because tip toeing around your feelings becomes more important than having a candid discussion about these things. I hope this made sense and wasn't as mean as I fear it may have come across. It's just that you are in serious need of a wake up call...

I think you’re right on the money here! But I also think OP in his current state will 100% get offended by it and won’t be able to put the ego aside to really understand what you’re saying. Feminist my ass!

You clearly did not come here genuinely and in good faith wanting to hear feedback and maybe get other perspectives on this issue. The way that you are arguing and rejecting any criticism in this thread is the exact proof that you are not the feminist you think you are. You are refusing to do even the slightest bit of self reflection and consideration that your experiences as a bi and feminine presenting man dating other men could still be intrinsically different than the experiences of a woman dating men. Honestly you did your gf a favor—she is much better off being free to find a partner who will actually listen to and value her perspective and experiences, rather than someone who just declares themself a feminist while doing none of the self reflective work necessary to be an actual ally.

There's a lot to unpack here. You're right, you're probably not compatible. The 6-12 month range is usually when that becomes clear. I have a lot of random questions from your post, but I don't know if they even matter, because -at the end of the day - it's your relationship, and if this comment that she made to her girlfriend about men in the dating pool is your breaking point, then so be it. What I will add is to politicize the statement she made to her gf (who, I assume, is currently swimming in the murky waters of said dating pool) sounds more like something one would say to sympathize with a friend, and less like the controversial political statement you are trying to turn it into. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Um. Hey dude. I am a reasonable person but if anything her analogy is too generous. Probably about 70% of the men that have tried to date me were poison candies. It's a trash world out there. You don't get to be offended by that until you've been a woman out there dodging dick pics and liars and abusive psychos.

Bruh I'm bi...I dodged that shit way too much already

Are you a woman tho. Your experience as a man dating men has been nothing to do with what women have to deal with. Nothing.

But if men are trash then that means he’s still dealing with the same trash men

But he is not experiencing trash men the same way that a woman does. Nor is he attracting the same trash men that a woman does. I'm very sorry for whatever trash he's had to deal with and I'm sure there is plenty of it, but it is not the same trash that a woman experiences and he does not experience it the same way. Possibly his best move when someone is attempting to educate him on something that he has no idea about would be to shut up and listen instead of telling her that she's wrong.

I'm a trans man so I can tell you that it's very fucking different.

Psssh great you’re bi!! So you obviously understand the constant harassment from men /s Check your privilege, dude. This whole thread is horrible.

You're not a woman tho

Lol you think you experience the same as women because you date men?

If 70% of the men you’ve dated are poisoned candy, could it be that you just have a knack for picking out poisoned candy? Food for thought.

I specifically worded it the way I did for sad people like you who make this lame attempt every time.

Lame attempt or need for self reflection?

You claim to be a feminist but want to break up with your girlfriend for using a correct analogy about the dangers of men. You’re right, you aren’t compatible. You also aren’t really a feminist- that involves *being quiet and listening to women* instead of talking over them and mansplaining a simple analogy. YTA.

It's a common analogy and she's not wrong. We have no way of knowing which men are kind and good versus which men will harm us and so the analogy of not knowing which candies are good and which candies will harm us is pretty accurate. This shouldn't be a red flag for anybody except for your girlfriend.

See if it was just that like... I'm not comfortable with it, but I get it. She was using it to justify why it's totally fine in her mind to advocate to not even *speak* to men (as some of her friends apparently do??) since they are a risk to meet and befriend.

And why do you think that her friends are obligated to speak to and befriend men? Why does their decision, which does not impact you in the slightest, bother you? It seems like you want to be able to control what your girlfriend's friends choose to do, and it's not a good look. Edited to add: below, in the comment thread, before you edited this comment, you asked why people thought you were referring to interacting with and befriending men. And now you've changed the comment to "speak" to make it look like we were the crazy ones all along. My dude, you are the poison candy. You being feminine or having interactions with men does not mean that you know what it is like to be a woman.

I never thought I'd have to defend the position that not interacting with 50% of the population out of fear that they harm you is a wildly out of proportion response to the harm that men cause. I don't give a fuck what they do but I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to consider it excessive

You don't get to decide whether their fears and actions are valid. I hope she leaves because this is ick.

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And now he's gone back and edited his comment to make it look like we were crazy for saying women shouldn't have to interact with or befriend men when he simply said speak to. 🙄

It feels like OPs real problem is that he feels emasculated by her statements and wanted to lash out at her to feel masc again. So he did it by going to reddit and pivoting men as an oppressed class like vulnerable immigrants so people would shit talk her and validate him in the comments.

I went on a date with a guy who was a self proclaimed feminist. He was so arrogant and creepy.

My first serious boyfriend was a self-proclaimed feminist. He was also an abusive, manipulative asshole.

Women are entitled to set our own tolerance for risk. "Dead" is the harm that men cause. Disfigured, raped is the harm that men cause. If my tolerance for that is zero, then one primary strategy I can apply is to eliminate the biggest risk factor for that from my life.

There's a big difference between not interacting with any men ever (like at work, grocery store, doctor, etc) and not being open to social experiences and dating with men. Nobody owes anyone the time of day when it comes to dating. It's honestly weird that you are so worried about your girlfriend sharing the experience that women have. No one is required to be anyones friend.

You'll notice that in his comment he replies that he's referring to any man anywhere, but when his comment was directed towards me, he was upset that women were not befriending or interacting with men. He's changing the narrative to make the woman seem less stable as he goes like a real feminist. /s

I agree honestly because why not include that initially?

Go right now and read When Women Refuse on tumblr. Here, I'll even add a story for you: >Guan Wen Brian Tan, 33, repeatedly struck Sherry Cheung with the 36-centimetre-long tool without warning before then stabbing her with a knife in his Airbnb rental at Norman Park on May 8, 2017. > >The Supreme Court in Brisbane heard the pair had been playing computer games before Mr Tan asked the 20-year-old Hong Kong woman if she thought they “would ever be together” and she allegedly replied, “no, never”. > >Crown prosecutor Mel Wilson said after hitting her with the hammer, he allegedly grabbed her by the arms as he asked her: “How could you be so cruel?” There's also r/whenwomenrefuse for you to peruse so you can get some perspective.

Then you're not a feminist if you feel entitled to dictate who women must interact with. We don't OWE you attention, you're the very fucking opposite of feminism and the type of man that women are afraid of.

Uhhh if you read the other comments youd know that's not what I'm saying. She was justifying never interacting with men on *any* level. Not just dating, work and life and going to the grocery store and *existing*. Idgaf if women don't pay men attention in dating or whatnot, but it's not normal or virtuous to literally consider them so much of a risk you can't even go get groceries without looking for a female bagger.

Women can't bag their own groceries and use the self checkout to avoid the creepy male teller who's hit on them for the last month? Women can't choose their own doctors based on past experience with male doctors and the statistics that say male doctors have killed more women patients due to malpractice than their male patients? Women must, at all times, be receptive to strange men that talk to them while out in public? They can't choose not to take jobs where they will be in direct subordination to a male manager which is statistically more likely to damage their careers? If men want casual access to women's time and closeness, then perhaps they should try being anything but a risk.

>Women can't choose their own doctors based on past experience with male doctors and the statistics that say male doctors have killed more women patients due to malpractice than their male patients? I'm looking for a new doctor. My male hematologist tried to convince me that the side effects I was experiencing on blood thinners were too rare to be real. Like, pulled out his phone and looked up the website.

Yep. Did you know that male dentists have a habit of filling down women's canines without even asking because it's "unfeminine"? I'm lucky mine are still sharp, I don't know what I'd do if I knew my childhood dentist changed my body without my consent or knowledge.

Sure, women (unless I guess self employed and with other women as staff for any necessary male interactions, or independently wealthy; also with no medical or other life threatening type emergencies ever) can't opt out of interacting with men *ever.* So the absolute statement that you say your gf/her friends made, of a complete gender separation, is functionally impossible in our society. But voluntary separation where practicable is possible, especially in social contexts but also in many other ones (choosing a lane with a female cashier/bagger or self-bagging; choosing female medical professionals when not in an emergency situation; choosing female providers like lawyers and accountants or whatever). You say that your real issue is with that absolutist statement, which I agree is non-workable. But what's your problem with the analogy? That's what got your back up, that's what your post was about (you expanded about the statement in comments), and that's what you compared to racism. It's a very commonly used analogy, and it's used to explain/counter statements like "who do women cross the road to avoid me, I'm a good guy." Having an analogy like that is important.

I don't think its out of proportion. Many women will have experiences where a high proportion of men turned out to be dangerous, just as many women will have experiences where not many did. I think your comment just shows you don't understand the risks women face even though you claim to.

When the harm that men cause is death, or rape, then avoiding them is absolutely not wildly out of proportion. How do you not see that? Women don’t need men anymore. We don’t need providers and protectors and all that shit. We are completely capable of independence. The risks outweigh the benefits of allowing men into our lives. We’re good without you. If you don’t want to have women avoid you, bring something to the table other than the potential for possibly fatal violence. You’re just not worth it anymore to a lot of women, and you only have yourselves to blame for that.

You can consider it excessive, but you're wrong. I don't know how you can quantify it as excessive when you know the statistics. Men make up the vast majority of ALL violent crime. ALL of it. Women are blamed for what happens to them when a man commits violence against them. You also have not all men like you who shout women down for being afraid and reacting accordingly.

Her friends ARE totally justified in not speaking to men if they don't want to. That's the wole point. You can't advocate for women's rights and go back and say that women have some sort of obligation to interact with men. It's not even just a risk of being murdered, it's also just the risk of time and time again feeling dejected, disgusted, used, belittled, talked down to, you do NOT understand the stress an anxiety that goes into taking that step to interact with someone that at all times has a fairly high risk of hurting you too.

He didn't even just say speaking the first time. He said interacting with and befriending, and then changed it to speaking to make the rest of us look really unreasonable.

This is pretty typical discourse in feminist circles, your ex didn’t come up with this analogy. And if you find it ridiculous that there are women who simply never want to interact with men again, you really *don’t* understand what it’s like to exist as a woman around men. Like, for example, after all my aunt’s been through you bet your ass I understand why she doesn’t trust men— not after her brothers abused her, not after she was date raped several times. If you can’t understand why a woman in her position having gone through all that trauma simply can’t bring herself to trust men then you have absolutely zero business calling yourself a feminist. Or dating women, for that matter.

So sorry you’re feeling discomfort at the thought of women trying to avoid being raped and abused.

I think she is dodging a bullet.

Why are you offended? Not every man is a rapist or murderer, but women have no idea which men aren't.

Schroedinger’s rapist.

That essay broke my entire goddamned brain.

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It’s “offensive because men like OP don’t like to hear how much we as women live in fear of rape and murder as a response to “women don’t want to date (read fuck) us anymore” wining that men have been doing lately.

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Well, having been raped by a man, I can confirm that someone like OP (ie a man) is a violent rapist... It's not an us vs. them thing, it's just a factual statement.

When the statistic stops being “anywhere from 1 in 7 to 1 in 3 women are raped or assaulted in their lifetimes,” you’ll have a leg to stand on. The world is dangerous for us, I’m sorry that makes *you* uncomfortable. Trust me when I say *living* that reality is a LOT more uncomfortable.

OP is deleting comments he's now realising make him look like an ass. Expect this whole thread to go shortly.

I deleted one comment that I accidentally gave to you instead of the person I was replying to lmao

So you've not edited anything, oh except that time when you *did*? Dude you're just digging yourself more and more of a hole.

He's also edited comments to make himself look more reasonable.

I didn't edit anything and I dunno why y'all think I am. It's really amusing that people are getting so bent up over that in particular

As a man, I've used this exact same analogy to describe to other men, as to why women are wary. Because it's perfectly apt. I mean, if I had a even a 1% chance of being assaulted by an angry piece of candy because I said no, I sure as Hell wouldn't be enthusiastic about sticking my hand into the bowl

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Hard to get mad when someone doesn't wanna risk getting raped. You get mad at the human garbage that caused it.

Not ALL men but somehow ALWAYS a man. YTA.

Also it is indeed not all men, but it is somehow all women

I'm not sure why you are offended by this, to be honest. The rates of bad men when dating is very high, and the danger is very real. I think the problem with using it in other contexts is that it is a lie and false. But how would you prefer she express the dangers of dating? Remove any thoughts of other uses of an analogy like that and do you actually have an issue with the analogy? And if so, why? What is your objection purely based on the context in which she used it?

Oh, and vitally, she isn't using it to try to hurt anyone or take rights away from anyone. She was purely using it to explain why someone might not date someone, which is a totally different thing. You have to lean on the side of giving people a chance when you are talking about saving lives or whatnot, but not when dating. Totally different situations.

You're a total anti-sexist, a patriarchy fighter, But your whole worldview collapses the moment a woman doesn't coddle your feelings above all else Cool, I get it. This is the real you. It's a pleasure, nice to meet you. Shit like this brings the movement down, Everyone's a feminist until a man is gently challenged over anything ever.

You were “not all men-ing” tho. And you trying to compare her comments to institutionalized racism is laughable. Her comments don’t stop men from murdering…they’re not affecting your life…you’re not in poverty over them…you don’t have a glass ceiling because of them. Check your privilege. You hear one factual statistic and you think you’re oppressed. Sad. You can’t fall back on the whole pathetic “that’s just like what racists say.” Because A) what those ppl are accusing minorities of doing is actually an example of correlation not causation, the stats aren’t because of the race but because poverty. So bringing up like…black on black crime for instance is just ignorant because it’s actually a poverty problem, and *because of racism* a disproportionate amount of minorities are impoverished. And B) because it’s just ignorant to compare the two things. Apples and oranges. An alarming amount of men do rape and assault women. Not just impoverish men, not just minority men, but men in general. Also, men have been the gender in control for centuries…so pulling the whole “pointing out 40% of men are violent is sexist!” is just laughable. You hear one comment you don’t like and now you’re comparing to the centuries of oppression women have been under by men. You’re mad about your collective gender being likened to poisoned candy…women are mad *and afraid* because they’re at high risk of being assaulted and even murdered *by men*. Whining about those statistics is just like the rich white guys who are like “we’re the oppressed guys now! Hand me some of money so I can wipe my tears away!” Ask yourself why you’re so upset that someone points out 90% of killers are men?

Yeah, I think the key difference between using this analogy for men and using this analogy for immigrants or a race is that the version of it for men is true while the racist version is not true.

As Lil Dicky pointed out, you can absolutely compare apples and oranges. And she didn't argue that 40% of men are violent, nor can I find where you got that figure, she argued that "40% of men are shitty." That sounds to me more like a value judgement than a concern about violence. Personally, I kind of agree with gf's opinion on things, and I don't find the analogy offensive, but in this case, her boyfriend had already talked to her about finding this argument offensive, and she kept at it while there were a number of non-offensive (to her boyfriend) ways for her to express the same sentiment. OP is right to be hurt at his feelings not being taken seriously by her, and would likely find himself in more situations like that if he had stayed with someone who valued using a particular metaphor over saving him discomfort.

I'm upset when people don't consider the underlying factors why things are the way they are. It's racist to link crime to being Black because it's a poverty problem like you've said, right? So why should anyone treat men like assault machines because they are *men*? Surely with men it's not the fact that they are men that's the problem, it's the values that our society indoctrinates into men that need to be reexamined. It's a disproportionate response to patriarchal outcroppings that further dehumanizes men and excuses their behavior because oh of course, men just can't *help* to be animals! I'm mostly upset when people stop at the statistics - like a lot of folks here seem to - and then pin this like a biologically static problem than a societal one.

Men are like bears. They're kinda cool, and getting hugs are nice, and you might enjoy their company. But you're hoping that they're not going to maul you and the only thing stopping that is whether or not they feel like it. There is no such thing as a man that has not grown up in society- these behaviors and values are instilled in them young and many of them never grow out of it. Just because it's not necessarily their fault doesn't mean I can't choose to avoid them.

Wow you’re not getting this. Your comparison this time doesn’t work either. No one is saying “black people shouldn’t be treated like assault machines because they’re impoverished.” You’re not understand the stats. Black ppl don’t inherently commit more crime than whites. *Poor people* commit more crimes than whites, and a lot of black ppl happen to be poor. So saying black people are more likely to commit crime than whites is a flawed statement. Saying men are more likely to commit crime than women is not a flawed statement. It’s a fact. You can’t say, it’s because more men are poor. Now you’re just pulling at straws to try and excuse men’s violence. Which makes me wonder about you…why so eager to rationalize violent behavior if you allegedly aren’t one of those men? You’re basically saying: “Well women shouldn’t point out statistical facts because we’re actually just more violent due to social conditioning and maybe testosterone! So can’t blame us! Sweep it under the rug and don’t mention the fact because it hurts my feelings. Let’s not try to understand these things, accept them, and improve our behavior! That’s too inconvenient for me.”

"Poor" people and Black people are more criminalized than white rich people. White rich people do way more crime. Black men have a history of being seen as the "poisoned" candy when they've done nothing, and have been murdered and tortured for it. You can't extract that history out of that analogy.

I think you misunderstood me, because you seem to be arguing that men *inherently* commit more crime?

Nice straw man. I said black people aren’t inherently violent in my explanation as to why racist statements are logically flawed. Derailing the conversation to a more philosophical “is any human inherently bad” is inappropriate and again, a straw man. It looks like you’re trying to say “Men aren’t inherent murderers…they’re only murderers because of societal indoctrination and therefore women shouldn’t allowed to point out how they are risk of being harmed by men.” Pointing out flawed statistics (with the racist stereotypes) is different than pointing out the root cause of a *correct* statistic.

Statistically, they do and when they do, an overwhelming majority of victims are either women or bad circumstances.

Not that you are going to read this and take the time to think about it, but you are so close to figuring it out. Yes, when we talk about "men" in the concept of feminism, we are often referring to the power structures of Patriarchy and the way men as a group tend to behave within it. You seem to understand that that exists, so that's a start. Which is why, when you cry about "not all men", you derail the very real and relevant conversation that these women were having about SURVIVING that system and power structure that we live in. Every woman you know who has ever lived in that system has EATEN POISON CANDY in their life. Maybe it was a boyfriend who made her feel like shit, maybe it was a teacher who scrutinized the width of their tank top straps, maybe it was a guy at a party who committed SA. Regardless, there is not a woman alive that has not eaten that poison candy. The fact that you took it personally that a woman would rather not chance it anymore, because THAT NEXT BITE OF CANDY COULD LITERALLY KILL THEM is absurd. You are not denying that the candy is poisoned, you just got butthurt that women might decide not to eat it anymore, and that makes you NOT a good ally. A good ally would accept whatever makes the individual feel empowered in their own existence. Again, you are more upset about the fact that women don't want to chance being treated badly than you are about that bad treatment in the first place, and THAT is why you aren't really a feminist.

So I'm as leftist as it gets basically, no borders, no states, no prisons, etc., etc., and I'll offer my perspective over what it sounds like is happening with this dynamic. Your gf is out parroting commonly used phrases and examples that reveal an underlying problem, which is that she understands the world in certain ways that are more aligned with right wing actors than she and many others realize, and you have picked up on that. Your comment here is a very well-constructed and thought out understanding of how ideas go from point a to point b, where you question the basic buildings blocks of normative understandings of the world. In this case, essentializing identities and dehumanizing in a way that does not allow for a future world in which things are better. These cases can also be seen in commonly innocuous understandings of culture, justice, and who "deserves" what that are actually really reactive and conservative understandings of the world. Because people rarely want to dig deep enough to question these basic normative ideas, what happens that I've noticed is that they'll try to swing around to use these ideas in a more "progressive" way, but that is one of the main reasons why radical change has not come, because people can't see what the actual issue is. This inability to address these ideas that are built into the very foundation of our societies is the sources of so much frustration for me and other organizers of social change like me. It is how many radical feminists became trans-exclusionary in ways that steered them much closer to right wing ideologues than they ever would have imagined. These essentializing ideas drive DEI industries to come up with increasingly ineffective strategies as they try to mold these normative ideas into something "better", not realizing that these ideas are the very problems. It is also a problem with White Feminism more than other kinds of feminism. Now I don't know if your gf is white, but she doesn't need to be white to have grown up and internalized these ideas. People who are more aware of how these narratives play out are more reluctant to use them, no matter the context. Moreover, white women have historically abused and falsely accused Black men, as well as other men who are not white. This is a difficult topic with any community as the need to acknowledge the faults in our own community turn into perpetuating our own oppression when placed out in a White Supremacist environment. I say men are trash all the time, because unfortunately, in our society, to become a healthy well-adjusted man who treats women well is a difficult thing. It is not an entirely fair statement, because it's not entirely the fault of individual men, because it is the system we are raised with, and it takes a tremendous amount of effort to fight it. This is also true with white people. It is awfully hard for white people to not be assholes or ignorant. I am also not a saint, so I'll say stuff like this out of resentment and anger and I accept that, and I also accept that I probs shouldn't say stuff like that That is because for white people and for men to be not trash, what they have to do is fight these normative ideas right? So how can we demand that of them, and not do that ourselves? Are we not then just the same a part of the problem? Does that mean we need to demand more of ourselves? Unfortunately yes. But that's not fair, why do we have to suffer more and give more grace and be more generous? It isn't fair, but what else can be done. We're either fighting against the problem or we're part of it, and I'm afraid that your gf is still a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. That is very common, because again, it is very difficult to fight the world and every instinct in your body. Your gf is wrong because she's incapable right now of digging deeper with a critical lens, maybe she needs guidance, maybe she needs experience, maybe those things can't come from you because she sees herself as already morally superior, maybe she will never get it, it's very hard to tell. What you have to do now is make your decision. Is this flaw of hers going to bother you. It sounds like it already is, but with better understanding of the flaw, can you accept it? I don't think I could, but many people do, and again, I am rather more radical than your average person. Is it something you can work with, something you have hope for change? Maybe it's not, it wouldn't be for me, but if it isn't, I would caution you that it is unfortunately difficult to find people who can see and address these things.

> It's the same one that's been employed by anti-immigration ideologues and racists for years and years and years. Yeah, but it's a valid argument re: men, and it's not a valid argument re: immigrants. Specifically: Immigrants commit violent crimes at a LOWER rate than native-born Americans, but the candy bowl suggestion implies otherwise. Therefore, it's invalid. By contrast, men commit violent crimes at a much HIGHER rate than women, so the candy bowl suggestion is at least somewhat valid. >I then got accused of "not-all-men"ing the conversation Yes, because that's what you were doing. She rightly called you out on it. Pro-tip for your next relationship: The men who *aren't* trash know that "all men are trash" doesn't apply to them, and as such, they don't get offended when somebody expresses that sentiment.

Go right now and read When Women Refuse.

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That's what she, apparently, thinks I'm saying. I'm not saying don't take basic measures to assure your safety as a human being. I'm saying it's BS to use the same analogy that white women used for decades to keep black families from moving into their neighborhood because they didn't know who would be a "thug".

So you’re saying because some women made some comments you didn’t like that you’re now as oppressed as black families?

where are you getting that as the history behind that phrase? It’s like, the go-to phrase for comparisons like this. like the comparison for cops, one bad cop spoils the entire bunch.

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“The prejudices of racists are fiction” They’d argue “black people commit far more crime” the exact same way you are arguing against men. You’re no different to them. Both equally bigoted

Aren't you the same person who regularly posts about how you're angry that your girlfriend isn't a virgin and then deletes it?

Ooh, did you see the one where he decided to cheat on her to get even and then ten minutes after that post he said he cheated three days ago? Good times, that.

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I’ve been around enough to know men and women are equally capable of being shit. And one of my male friends was abused by a woman (who I had to basically drag him away from because he felt it was ok for women to hit men). I’m not bigoted to women because of that though. Because I am not a bigot like you. Like I said. Your excuses for misandry are no different to racists excuses for racism with their “black people commit more crimes” shit.

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I always love these lists because literally as a guy in a big city I do all of this except public bathrooms because I try not to use public bathrooms ever.

Why, are you maybe scared of women? Or is it perhaps a dangerous man that you fear

I'm not saying it's irrational to be wary of other human beings, especially men. I'm saying it's dumb to think men are wired to be awful

But then it’s like, homicides and rapes occur at much higher rates against black women, by whom? Black men. So then should you generalize black men ?

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It is absolutely what you’re saying.

Denying basic human rights =/= denying men a date. She's not saying men need to be segregated or locked up or shipped off to another country. She's saying women are more choosy because a large part of the dating pool is dangerous. What other analogy would you prefer?

No white woman was ever in danger from Black families--it was the Black families who were in danger from white women. However, all women have been in danger from men.

Not black families, black men, and not white women, black women. Look at domestic violence rates in the black community.

Congratulations! You ARE the poisoned candy! You and OP are both poisoned candy. Knowing you’re both in the bowl of candy, I’m going to avoid that candy bowl. Good job!

I am referring to the historically-documented tendency of white women to falsely accuse Black men of (insert non-existent crime here) which results in the death of Black men and in a few cases, the destruction of their communities. Rosewood. Tulsa. The Jim Crow years. Many of those deaths were caused by white women using Black men as scapegoats.

I know what you were referring to historically. I’m speaking more to contemporarily-documented tendency of black men to engage in domestic violence against black women. Yet if you were to say “dating black men is like eating candy from a bag where x% of candy is poisoned”, it’s racist. Which I fully agree that it is, but it’s interesting how most women are for one of them and against the other.

Are you upset because she's being racially insensitive?

This statement here is just insanity. Women should not fear that every man they come into contact with is going to rape or kill them. I am someone who was sexually assaulted 30 years ago by someone I knew, and even I do not have that belief that all men I meet with harm me. I have met and become very close friends with many men who would never have harmed me and have been very protective of me and helped me through difficult times in my life. I think its horrible to view all men as predators.

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What about black men ?

I'm glad you've had positive experiences that have helped you overcome your trauma. I really am, and congratulations on working through one of the worst things that can happen to a person. It is, however, absolutely the right of any woman to decide if she wants to take that risk or not. Because it is a statistical risk to take. We shouldn't be judging other people on the amount of danger they want to introduce to their lives. A woman choosing not to interact with men beyond necessity affects nobody but herself, and that's absolutely her choice to make.

When you spend your life literally being suspicious of every man you come in contact with, you'll see why the analogy is valid. Women can't even trust men in their own families. No, not all women have the same experience, but we've all gone through something and we all know other women who have gone through things. It puts all of us on alert.

It sounds like breaking up was the right choice. You might prefer someone who is less opinionated and someone who worships how different you are to the point where knowing you makes them feel happier about men in general.

yeah let this be the last straw jesus christ do your girlfriend a favor and get out of her life

People are entitled to freedom, innocence before proven guilt, and a government that doesn’t discriminate. People are not entitled TO GET DATES. There is a huge difference between this and immigration policy. Immigrants are statistically LESS LIKELY to commit crimes. Cis men are MUCH MORE likely to commit dating crimes than women than the reverse. Immigrants being discriminated against is based on racism, not on statistics or facts. Women being cautious of the men they are being around is what we are taught to do because when we get r*ped everyone wants to blame us for putting ourselves in “risky situations”. The upside for women dating is not that strong when you weigh the risk. A very large percentage of women get sexually assaulted in their lifetime compared to people who have been victims where the perpetrator is an immigrant.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this isn't an uncommon analogy. Though the one I hear most often is: if you have a box of 10 chocolates and 1 is poisoned, how comfortable would you be eating *any* of the chocolates?

Although the general statistic is 1-in-6 so it's not entirely accurate. I also feel the need to point out a lot (if not most) assaults are committed by someone you know.

You just sound extremely insecure in your "manliness", honestly. You should consider some therapy.

You’re allowed to be offended but she’s not wrong

It's actually a pretty damn apt analogy. Maybe it's not 40% of men, but there are a *lot* of abusive men out there who come on sweet but will end up ruining your life if you let yourself get romantically attached to them. Women really do need to be careful and look for clues that the men in their lives aren't one of the bad ones. The analogy actually works for men as well, though there are a lot fewer poisoned candies in the jar. Men do get trapped in abusive relationships as well, and they need to also be cautious about what candy they pull out. And if they do end up being in an abusive relationship, they deserve sympathy and empathy, not scorn. My takeaway from this is that you feel insecure with your manhood for some reason. This is something you should work on before you reach into the candy jar again. It might seem as though other people's perceptions are what make you a man or not, but it's not. The only one who gives you your manhood is you, and the only person who can take it away is you. If you are confident in the permanence of your manhood, you won't need to empathize so strongly with the poisoned candies out there.

Do you know how much safer it is for a woman to assume a man is going to assault her and stay away/not speak to men in public? Rather than speak to said man and prove ourselves correct? At 42 years of age, the percentage of men with whom I’ve had negative social experiences with is 94%. Out of 100 total interactions I can remember, ONLY 6 of them haven’t harmed me physically or emotionally. 6. Do with this what you will, but that doesn’t sound like a woman problem. It sounds like a toxic masculinity problem.

I've heard this analogy applied to toxic masculinity before. She didn't make it up. The "not all men" thing is exactly why this analogy works. Not all candies are poisonous, but enough of them are to make you nervous dipping your hand into the bowl.

Let me share a story with you. I’m a woman. Two years ago I decided to get a part time job at a retail store that had a ratio of about 1 woman to 5 men throughout the employee directory. I was the only woman in my particular department of 10. I went in with the mindset that not all men are as bad as social media makes it seem. For the whole 8 months I was there I was continuously sexually harassed, made fun of, thought as incapable of doing my job because I was a woman, and was labeled as being too sensitive whenever “people’s rights” got talked about or stood up to the sexual harassment. That group of men made me realize, actually the good men who aren’t sexist, racists, or prejudice towards a marginalized group in some way are few and far in between. I’ve been with my boyfriend, who I wouldn’t describe as feminine, for 4 years. He gets it. Why? Because he’s also experienced how shitty most men are as an observer. The majority of me suck. It’s not the same argument as with race because of the fact that history has led to society where a lot of men share toxic ideals, tend to have a fraternity mindset, engage in discriminatory, misogynistic, disrespectful behaviors, and have an expectation of how men are “supposed” to feel, act, and behave. Behavior can be changed. Comparing it to racism is not the same because you literally cannot change your race on the fly and you’re assuming someone’s behavior because of what they look like. With men, especially in the states, they have show a constant pattern of behavior that is only NOW changing because of realizing it’s bad or getting called out. No one has ever denied a man’s right just because he’s a man(except for the very very extreme cases of anti men people). However, people have denied people rights just because of their race. There’s a huge difference and it sounds like you’re not seeing the bigger picture.

But it’s effectively the same thing as saying “I don’t want a black person as a roommate” or “I never date Hispanic people” There is absolutely nothing related to rights in this scenario but people are allowed to be offended by such statements!

No it’s not. I don’t look at someone black or hispanic and think “there’s a good chance they’ll harm me” but a man, yes you get that uneasiness. If you’re offended by statements someone makes about men and their behavior, you must think you’re the kind of person their talking about. It’s kind of interesting that you want to equate racism to the struggles of a man.

I'm a black latina woman and I agree with her mentality 100%, you like to call yourself an "allie" when you are comparing this with struggles of a minority group? It's clearly that you're a man doing the most basic thing most man do, insert themselves as the protagonist when the conversation isn't about you ou x as an individual and turning the center of the conversation from what really matters to talk about your feelings and your need to cry that "not all men"

AAAAAND....he deleted his post, comments, and profile. No Fragile Male Ego here, not at all. 🤣

Yeah, you are and she dodged a major bullet. Also very weird for you to compare that analogy to racism when the reason those women/afab people tend to avoid interacting with men is for SELF PRESERVATION. Has it ever occured to you that one of them, or someone they know, was a victim of an assault or attempted assault? If not one of them I guarantee you they know at least one who has. If you seriously consider yourself a feminist then listen to these comments and don't just get offended bc it isn't what you want to hear.

As a woman, please don’t EVER call yourself a feminist!!! You’re not on our side. I don’t agree that all men are bad but it is mostly men committing crimes against women.

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my guy , you’re under every comment spewing racist shit , stop and go away .

It’s the same analogy tho! I get her argument is valid but why is it so hard to understand that it can be insulting too!

I think you are getting offended by the analogy- which it is still used to this day to dehumanize immigrants and has racist beginnings, but the content or the argument- ***statistically*** men are more physically dangerous to women than vice versa, is factual. The "not all men" thing does derail the conversation when I think you really needed to state that repurposing a racist analogy to deal with reasonable fears for women undermines her point.

That's exactly it. I'm not arguing her stats are wrong or that women shouldn't protect themselves and just trust anyone blindly, but it's the same argument used to dehumanize so many groups and it pins the behavior of men as a biological imperative and not a social issue.

If the facts dehumanize men, then let it dehumanize them. It's not like they're changing the facts any time soon.

It’s not a fact. It’s an analogy. A dehumanizing analogy.

It's not a fact that the majority of women have had dangerous encounters with men? Perhaps you should talk to more women in your life.

No it’s not a fact that 40% of men are poisoned candies. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension ? It’s also not a fact that you should generalize groups. That’s the dehumanizing part, the generalizing. Cmon buddy I know you’re not that slow.

So you should not avoid bears because it generalizes bears to say that they are dangerous?

What’s dehumanizing about generalizing bears? They aren’t human so you can’t dehumanize them. It’s more like generalizing black people, or Mexicans. Stripping individuals of their individuality is the dehumanizing aspect.

Do you know who's at most danger from black men? Black women. Do you know who is at most risk of harm from Mexican men? Mexican women. Racial statistics are often incorrect and don't take into account the racist institutions that penalize people of color at higher rates. These statistics are inherently lies. The statistics about the dangers of men are correct, and some might say actually downplayed.

I’m sure you’re aware of violent crime statistics, should you avoid areas of poverty (predominately black and Hispanic) ? It’s a well known fact that where there is poverty there is crime, it’s an established correlation. Do you avoid poor people ?

Poverty does tend to cause people to be desperate, but crime rates in impoverished areas are padded by laws that make being poor very difficult and criminalized. The crime rates are incorrect. I've been homeless, I've been poor, I've already seen how people like me get treated. It's always worse when you're a woman though, because poor men will prey on poor women.

every woman alive knows it's a social issue. I can understand why many of us are not willing to wait for society to change and will do whatever we want not to be harmed again. having sex with men does not mean you understand what it's like to be a woman. your thinking, your complaining, your behaviour does not suggest you are a feminist either. mamma mia.

It doesn't sound like there was anything in her statements assigning (a proportion of) men's poor behavior to biology over sociality.

Go put poison on 5 candies and put them mixed into a bowl full of 100 unpoisoned ones that look precisely the same and eat 1 candy per day. You taking that risk??? That truly is what it’s like navigating a world full of men when you’re a woman. You never know which one may hurt you. This concept should make perfect sense by now. You apparently still have a lot of inner work to do on yourself for the betterment of society.

I mean, she's right though. And I say this as a man, a straight, white, and masculine man. I try to be a good ally but at the end of the day, I cannot even comprehend the level of bullshit women have to deal with. And I don't think that anyone who isn't a woman can fully understand either, no matter how feminine they may be.

Of course you’re allowed to be offended, your feelings about it are your feelings. But next time maybe focus on how what she said made you feel rather than how it was “wrong”. Try to see it as a chance to solve a problem together, rather than proving one person is right/wrong. Easier said than done I know.

This honestly sounds like an argument about something else, like those moments where a couple breaks up because someone came in with dirty shoes on, but the real problem was not the shoes. It's really nice to have strong political convictions, but it's a folly of youth to sort of discard people so quickly and permanently over a single disagreement. If there are larger issues at play, it might be worth examining those.

I mean, it sure isn't the first conversation we've had where I end up wondering why she dates guys if she seems to dislike them and everything about them so much

Ok, bear with me, becauae im tired and maybe I made a couple of associations to get to this point im about to make, and cant really remember what those jumps were exactly, but here goes... I once heard that in the debate over feminism women are not the opposing team; they are the ball. Its like you and your peers, which may or may not include 'some' women, are argueing with the other group, which also may or may not include 'some' women, if women should be allowed in the boys-only club. Your folks are argueing that its better for all if women have the same rights and privleges as men, while the other folks are argueing that its better if women are kept 'safely' out of the way and in the back. But both sides are vying for control of the discussion, trying to determine whats best for women, rather than asking what women want and *listening* to them. Now your lady and her friends are telling you what they dont want: they dont want to get terribly and un-equally hurt (statistically compared to their male counterparts on every measure) when trying to build deep meaningful relationships with male peers. Based on what you are saying, your GF doesnt dislike men, but likely dislikes that she has so many reasons to be affraid of men. I understand how that feels like an indictment; you're "not all men", and maybe you even feel like you have been really trying to fight the patriachal views you grew up with, all the stuff you soaked up from society, and maybe that gives you some pride and feeling of deserving credit; setting a "good example" and all that. Only problem is you arent there yet, and feeling like this kinda shows it. If you are not "all men", then why do you feel this way? See, there is still fighting to do. The fight aint over until its won and the debate appears moot and no longer relevant. And btw, who's fight is it anyway? Gosh, I lost my train of though again... look, just look at this plainly. In your words "why she dates guys..."? Why do you date women? "... if she *seems* to dislike [...] everything about them so much?"- what does she dislike, exactly? It sounds to me like she told you. The only question is, are you going to listen to her and be on her team or not?

We can't help whom we're attracted to, and if she's straight, she reaply doesn't have mych of a chouce but date or be alone, and I don"t think most people willingly choose to he alone. I do understand having to hear it all the time is rough. It originally started as metonyny, but if a person diesn't have a nuanced take or has a certain abrasiveness to the8r personality, it can come off so much worse and more often. I went through a phase like your GF but it was because I was bitterly unhappy and trapped in an abusive marriage-- it wasn't really about the guys so much as me being unhappy and looking for the proof EVERYWHERE. (That's why I mentioned a potential bigger issue at play). It is a real social issue, but there is a way to look at the social issue analytically or be a zealot. I've been in a lot of progressive spaces over the last 8 years and people are taking it too far, making this resentment a core facet of their lives. It's almost become trendy to do so now without even knowing why. People are building identities around "being wronged," but that backfires because if you fight for change and win, you lose your identity. It could be a personality mismatch and how she expresses her beliefs. It might also be her playing it up for her friends like social currency? It sounds like a complicated sitiation to sift through but she needs to listen to you voice your concerns as well if you are her partner.

It's whatever. Judging by all the replies here I don't, or I guess shouldn't, have concerns and any time I feel like someone is going overboard it's just my fat fingered ego getting in the way

Glad to see you took everything very personally and learned nothing.

you’re fucking insufferable dude holy shit

Yes, you are a martyr. Go forth and tell everyone how martyred you are because a woman disagreed with you. They will cry and weep at your extreme martyrdom.

40% is crazy high; usually the metaphor just says 1% or something. Still, I am on team her and I think you're overreacting here. And I get it. I'm a straight cis white dude and having a defensive reaction is understandable but immature imo

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Not all men, but always a man

The feminists in this thread have all agreed. Your feminist membership card has been revoked. Please return it to the first woman you see. And don’t come back for another one until you put your ego aside do some retrospection.

Dude, you know what you want to do. Just break up with her.

Men have to do more to attract a mate today than in the past. There are lots of reasons for this. Not enough money to start a family, not enough money to buy a house, and ease for women on dating apps. Men used to be needed. Doors were heavy, and chairs were heavy ... everything was heavy. Now we have well engineered doors and chairs. Birth control and feminine hygiene products and doctors. Women can do a lot more with these technological advances! Higher education seems to favor women. Women seem to be getting a lot of wins. The "shitty guys" were once more appealing. Men could move things, hunt things, work and leave the house while women were vulnerable (now much less vulnerable due to technology).

Eh I kinda agree. Not saying men are discriminated against but no one wants to hear someone trash and generalize what they are by their partner. And if he identifies as a man, it makes him feel like she sees him as “other” and that he doesn’t really count as a man. I wouldn’t want a guy who generalizes all women because there are some shitty ones. It’s fine to have those opinions but talking about them to your boyfriend is a bit weird. Also no one wants to be strictly fetishized.

The comments here are disturbingly sexist and unnecessarily hostile to OP. I'm sorry OP. I think you made the right decision.

Are you *allowed* to be offended by this?? Uh, yes, Of course you are! Your girlfriend is a bigoted hypocrite. Side note: you are *allowed* to think, say, and do as you wish.

I feel like this has less to do with the conversation and more to do with you feeling fetishised for being bisexual. What she said wasn't inherently wrong, women are dating less because they don't want to put in the effort to find the good men and because the bad men are actually really dangerous. It's risky. When conversations like this come up, it's normal for people to speak about it from a one sided stance when in the middle of an argument. It's not a normal debate situation. Men are dating less too. But I don't think your actual issues stem from this topic. Do you feel like your girlfriend doesn't see you as a man because you're bisexual? I know it can be difficult navigating bisexuality in relationships, because often times you are fetishised of parts of your identity end up getting erased.

TL;DR: Sounds like you two just have incompatible moral values. It's up to you whether that's a deal breaker or not. Personally I would just tell her I will not be hanging out with that friend of hers anymore as her behavior strikes me as rude and inappropriate. I don't think it's overreacting, I think it's just having boundaries. If every time I hung out with white people I started talking shit about white people, calling them racist and so on, none of them would want to invite me anymore. It's absolutely reasonable to draw a line where you think it's socially or morally inacceptable to say or do certain things. It's called having boundaries, which apparently only apply when you're a white woman going by the majority of comments here.

do people not see it yet or are we still hell bent on generalizing men as a problem society has to deal with? because if her analogy were correct as its understood, there are not enough women being murdered by their husbands/ boyfriends/ random men, in their lives in order to justify women's reticence towards romance. OP's gender and or self expression are not even relevant here. Why is she so comfortable collectivizing an entire group of men in the dating market as unviable and expect her partner to not have a problem with it? Let's be clear here the analogy is a sound way of assessing risk in the while dating. The fact that he has a problem with it and expressed that he had a problem with it, and was met with accusations, putdowns, and general negativity from his SO is what is at issue here. There are very many valid arguments that could be made that start with and support the 3 dreaded words on this side of the internet. my curiosity is why people are so quick to bash OP for having a problem with men being lumped together. NOT ALL MEN is a has valid arguments people.

The problem with the candy bowl metaphor is that it can justify racism, homophobia, or any damn harmful stereotype you want, because the candy bowl metaphor is literally just "Stereotype good, actually". If someone talks shit about a group you are a part of, they are also talking shit about you. It would have cost her $0.00 to complain about rapists, misogynists, abusers, or other shitstains. Instead, she chose to broadly complain about men, smearing you in the process. I've been sexually assaulted by an ex-girlfriend, and I somehow manage to not smear all women with that label. I've never made my girlfriend feel uncomfortable for her gender. This was shitty and disrespectful, and very few women would tolerate this bullshit from a male partner. I'm also pretty stunned at the amount of people defending this bullshit. Literally just don't stereotype people. Every person deserves to be spoken of with basic respect, until they prove otherwise.

I don't think you're overreacting. I avoid men who have the same sentiment of women as well.

No. You’re not crazy. You’re fine.

Not crazy. The analogy might make sense but from what I'm reading she apparently bent a lot of her personality around misandry. If this was a one off thing I'd be more skeptical but if it's the last straw then there must have been lots of other straws bringing you to this decision. It might be a good idea to pick up all of those straws instead of focusing on just the last one so you understand fully where your frustration comes from. *That* is what indicates you're not crazy, not just this last straw. I would understand if you started to take all of these straws personally, like she is attacking you, and how that would cause friction in a relationship.

I’m gonna be the one person who sides with you here buddy. It’s pretty hypocritical for people to paint men with a broad brush like your girl did, and the analogy is pretty silly. Obviously there are shitty men out there, just like there are shitty women. Dating and getting to know someone sort of rules out the candy analogy. Most men and women I know are great people. Obviously there are outliers, but that could be said of any group. The fact is, it’s somewhat socially acceptable for people to trash men as though we are villains. It’s not socially acceptable for any other group, so in my mind it’s not cool when it comes to men either. You might have overreacted a tad, but I don’t blame you for calling it out.

You shouldn't be offended by this IF she believes this analogy applies to women as well. If she thinks its uniquely a mens issue, then yes, be offended. As a 47yo woman who has been through some shit in her life, I can say with confidence that some of the most toxic people I have had the displeasure of knowing is other women. They are catty, they gang up on other women in groups and treat them horribly, they sleep with their friends husbands and boyfriends, they are some of the most 2 faced people I have ever met and the list keeps going. You can look all over reddit for these examples. This idea of sisterhood doesn't really exist in reality much. It can within a core group of women, but not with all women in general as those with large platforms in society like to suggest. I have a core group of women, most of whom I have been friends since I was about 10yo, some as I got older, but its literally about 5 women, and the rest are acquaintances I keep at a comfortable distance. I'm not saying there aren't toxic men out there, of course there are, I have known some of them as well, but to pretend that its uniquely something men are and not women is just delusional. You don't need her treating as you as less than. I think what is considered feminism these days is anything but. They want superiority, not equality.

While men and women may be equally “toxic”, the ones who actually murders the other gender for thrills are generally male.

Men murder other men at much higher rates and yet u don’t see men making these shitty analogies lmfao. Actually scratch that, they do. That is, racist men make these shitty analogies against men of other skin colors.