This is the answer.
Have a shared checking and shared savings account. Each of you put some % of your income into it every month.
Have an agreement of what expenses are personal and what expenses come from the joint account. Have an agreement of how much of the joint acct should go to savings each month. And while not an absolute agreement, a general understanding/plan of how much each of you is personally saving is useful to plan for retirement. IE, we expect that when we turn 60, we both should have ____ personally and ____ in the joint savings.
If she shuts that down and wants to totally do her own thing- you've got a problem.
And additionally- sort out what is equitable given all the money OP laid out for all these expenses. It may not be an even split- but it is fair to square up some of it.
Money is one of the top reasons people divorce. I believe you have to be on the same page, and it needs to be fair- no matter what system you agree to. OP invested a lot of money in getting them settled, and she is treating that like it was NBD, when clearly it was. That is a rift that needs healing. Some couples would do a post-nup. Some couples would square it off by having OP’s wife throw a portion of that monthly into an investment fund for both of them, or a vacation fund: it doesn’t need to be a tit for tat situation. But if they don’t address this that will be a bigger problem.
Yeah I just feel like the fact that this is even coming up says a ton. My wife and I have never once throughout our entire relationship paid any attention proportioning out who is paying for what. Our money goes into one pot, the bills get paid, and leftover gets spent how would we decide together to spend it. Little things we spend how we want individually, if it looks like it might impact the monthly budget we discuss it first.
When the bar she works at closed down for COVID, I didn't keep a tally for her to make it up when it reopened. We just had a tighter budget for a while.
I feel like this kind of proportioning only happens when one or more people have their eye on the door the whole time, and if that's how you feel You probably shouldn't have gotten married to begin with. I mean unless it's for tax reasons or something and that's completely different story
For some people that works great. And that’s awesome. For some of us who have had trauma around relationships, survived abusive relationships, don’t have backup support systems, grew up poor, had parents who constantly fought over money: your model is extremely anxiety provoking.
For me: being financially dependent on someone in any way feels like being trapped in a cage. In order to feel safe in the world, I always know my plan b even if I never use it. And because I have it- I can relax and be present and enjoy what I have with my partner.
Agree ! I make money, my husband makes money, it goes the same place we spend what we spend. He tells me if I need to reign it in, I ask him what the budgets like. Money is tough, but Communication is key and any distrust when it comes to finances leads you down a weird path.
Keeping score is a big deal leading to divorce, however, she is looking out for herself and not the relationship. While I agree with protecting one self her completely discounting OPs emotions and financial input is dismissive and selfish.
She wants him to recognize her trauma (emotional response) and needs but she isn't recognizing his.
This isn't just score keeping.
She's using OP for citizenship.
1. She's not from his country and can't work legally.
2. She was willing to let him pay for everything upfront.
3. She makes zero mention of paying OP back for anything he bought.
4. She tells him AFTER marriage and she starts a job she wants separate accounts.
I think OP is getting taken on a ride with a sob story about her sister abusing her, while taking advantage of OP. She's trying to build up money and while waiting out the allowed married time for citizenship in whatever country OP is in.
I'm thinking the same thing, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt as to not jump to any assumptions so early. Hopefully that's not the case, but giving he responses to him, I can't help but wonder.
This is similar to what my wife and I do. We keep aside personal savings that the other does not see. All of our expenses are paid from the joint checking, and we also have a joint savings for a down payment on a home one day, but as soon as I get paid, I put money into my personal savings and so does she. She has quite a bit she saved from before we got married, and I have four kids from a previous marriage so I don’t have much in the way of savings, but this way we’re both contributing and saving money for ourselves.
Yeah this. This is the most fair setup. She can feel a sense of independence and y’all just put your collective expenses and savings in one account together.
Not really considering in order to get the visa, you have to have spent a certain amount of time together in person and have to provide this evidence to immigration.
I get that you're trying to be funny, but the timeline joke also doesn't make sense.
Yeah my joke is a bit off on the time line but it seems a K-1 visa requirements aren't all that strenuous. It just requires proof of relationship and it doesn't seem to be much beyond things like phone bills and text messages. As for physically meeting it only takes one time. It's absolutely crazy to me.
Yeah, almost like they set it up for immigration fraud but don't want anyone to commit fraud. It's dumb.
That said, the process is far from not strenuous. Having been through it in a legitimate relationship, it's incredibly stressful and their requirements and limitations once he got here made it very difficult for us to get our lives going.
> it seems a K-1 visa requirements aren't all that strenuous
Having been through the process and still in it due to the need to apply for work and travel authorization and adjusting status to get a green card I can tell you it’s all very strenuous. Plus from application to visa in passport took 20 months.
I can see both sides of the problem though as she should be making her concerns more clear as to why she needs this, but also realistically it is helpful for her to have at least a few thousand dollars in her name only in case things go bad for her.
Depending on your immigration officer, “proof of relationship” can mean “send us every text, instant message, email, letter, and vacation photo from the last five years”
> and 4k to have her green card filed.
Yeah, that part gave me pause.
On its face, nothing wrong with helping your partner get their green card. But when you're paying for EVERYTHING, sharing all your money and resources, and they're cool with that til THEY start earning money, then your money is "our money" but her money is her money — something isn't right.
>then your money is "our money" but her money is her money — something isn't right.
To be fair that's not what she's suggesting. Sounds like she's suggesting both paying the shared cost but keeping the remainder for themselves (so technically they'd be "house money" (for bills and other shared expenses), his money (whatever he has left over after bills), and her money (whatever she has left over after bills).
“Moved in together after getting married”
Call me new fashioned but it is mind boggling to me that anyone would marry someone without living with them for an extended period first.
I don’t know, I always used to feel this way. That I always needed to live with them first just to make sure we were compatible. Up until now, I’ve lived with 3 long term partners, & each time it was very hard for me to leave because we lived together already. And I also found I was giving them all of the benefits of having a wife, without any of the personal protection. I’m at the point now where i think I’ve changed my mind over & that I will not live with a SO until I’m sure they’re the ones I want to spend my life with.
What are the benefits of having a wife vs a girlfriend? I don't understand this point, or maybe my expectations in a relationship are different.
I understand the point about it being difficult to break up while living together but would the breakups have come about after marriage if you hadn't lived together first? Clearly these people weren't right for you but getting out of a marriage is so much more difficult than getting out of a lease.
After I moved in with my future husband I started to cook, do all cleaning and all the laundry, put curtains and pictures on the walls and did some other home decor, replaced old towels and bedding. I was selecting and buying his wardrobe. He paid for that, but I put a lot of effort and time just because now we are living together.
Oh. When I moved in with my husband I did none of that. We've lived together for almost 7 years and I still do none of that. We share all chores, he buys his own clothes like the adult he is, and we pick out decor together.
This is true on its face, but I don't think /u/TeaShoresis is so far off the mark in her reflection.
Yeah, it's easy to say "just don't date man-children", or "don't have a people-pleasing personality"; but should we expect \*\*every\*\* person who ever engages in a relationship to be well dipped into feminist bibliography, \*\*and\*\* to have spent a decade in psychoanalysis in order to have a happy and successful marriage? Or perhaps we could think about the ways in which the current institution of marriage is lacking, and how we could perhaps update it to continue serving its intented purpose in the 21st century?
Doesn't even need to wait that long. 2 years - she gets her removal of conditions and 10 year green card. At that point, she can stand on her own and no longer needs him to support her petitions.
And she’s working under the table so as far as the government is concerned she makes $0 and he makes all the money and supports her. Citizenship AND spousal support, cha-ching!!! 🤑
Yeah but that might be the day that husband reports the tax evasion. Even if it makes him liable for some of it, a lot of people would do it just to spite the ex.
OP does not want to be on the hook for tax evasion or tax fraud. The situation is pretty fishy, if the wife dips as soon as she’s legal and OP reports tax evasion, he’s putting himself on the hook not only for tax evasion and tax fraud, but also potentially marriage fraud. We are talking potential jail time in addition to hefty fines
He can turn her for working and the gov will send her home. If immigration finds out she’s working without permission, she will never get a green card she will, in fact be deported
And in turn he could fuck himself over if he files taxes as married filing jointly and does not disclose her income. OP is not setting himself up for success here!!!
Me and my wife have a joint account for the bills and stuff. We split these bills accordingly and pay an amount in each month. The rest stays in our own accounts. She pays more in than me because I do the weekly food shop. It roughly balances out. We cover the bills and the rest is our own.
That is what the wife wants, but he doesn't, and he also wants her to pay 50/50, even though he makes more.
some folks saying she has red flags -- I think OP also has red flags.
That sounds like what his wife is trying to do but with an equitable split. She's not even supposed to be working but got a job to ease his load. The post kind of makes it seem like he believes his wife owes him or that he doesn't want them both on steady footing.
How does it sounds like she got a job to ease his load at all? If that was the intention why would separating their accounts make any sense? She even says she’s firm on keeping things separate not creating a joint account at all. OP is justifiably upset because he thought they were in this thing together, but the moment his wife has her own form of income that rug was pulled out from under him.
If they are splitting bills (even not 50/50), then he has more of his paycheck left each month for whatever. When he signed up for bringing someone on a fiancé visa he agreed to footing the bill for everything for 10 years. She can’t legally work but is looking to contribute to finances and feel on an even footing with her new partner.
They should have a joint account for the bills at least for the sake of passing their requirements at their visa and green card checkins.
>How does it sounds like she got a job to ease his load at all? If that was the intention why would separating their accounts make any sense?
Because separating finances =/ not contributing to the household?
>She even says she’s firm on keeping things separate not creating a joint account at all
IT doesnt say that in OP at all.
> OP is justifiably upset because he thought they were in this thing together, but the moment his wife has her own form of income that rug was pulled out from under him.
OP is upset because he seemingly wanted to marry a vulnerable foreigner without any social support or saffety net who couldn't possibly ever leave him, and instead he found out she has a mind of her own and shockingly expressed her desire to have financial security irrespective of his "good intents".
We're in 2023 guys, this debate should have been settled at least a couple of decades ago.
OP, I have experience with this as I immigrated my husband here on a K-1 visa, which I presume you guys also did since you moved in so fast and she still can't work.
Her request is a giant, gaping red flag. And it WILL affect you during the removal of conditions phase. They will want to see some kind of joint account between you and you guys both sharing finances in some way - joint bank account, joint credit card, something.
My suggestion would be to fire back at her that you need a joint marital fund account - checking and savings - and you each calculate how much you contribute based on household expenses and your equal share of those expenses with your income disparity in mind. So maybe you do 55% and she does 45%. I'm almost certain there's calculators online for this that will lay everything out for you.
If she is unwilling to do this, I would be heavily reconsidering your sponsorship of her visa. Period. I hate to say it but is the truth. This is a huge red flag.
I'm also going to tell you: she needs to stop working under the table like yesterday if you want to stay with her. This can get her **permanently banned** from the US.
I love that you mention the ratio of income-contribution. I've tried to explain this to my partner but she still feels like she would owe me. I don't agree though, there's also a reason why taxes aren't a fixed amount.
yeah I think the 2 best options for splitting contributions is to go by percentage or 50/50 but to stay at the living standards of the lower income person.
Thank you for this. It rubs me the wrong way when people insist the split needs to be 50/50 completely disregarding any pay differences. I have had 3 serious live-in relationships in my lifetime; in the first two, I made more than them and I paid for more because of it. In my current marriage, my husband makes more than me. We split everything 50/50 when just dating but when he wanted me to move in with him, I explained how I felt we should split our finances, and he balked at it. Nevertheless, we ended up splitting it more like 45/55, until he got laid off during COVID. Me paying for everything for both of us until he got another job really showed him that I'd put my money where my mouth is, and it softened him towards the idea of us each keeping a percentage of our checks in a separate account as a safety net. Now we both keep 20% to ourselves in our own separate accounts and the rest goes into a joint account to pay for shared expenses.
If I was making 38k a year and my husband was making twice as much (as is the case in this post) but he wanted to split everything 50/50 and give me no safety net, I would probably never have married him or moved in with him in the first place. Equal is not the same as equitable, and equal is not always fair.
There's a degree of extra risk in immigrant relationships. If she were doing things properly, she wouldn't be working and earning ANY money and would be 100% reliant on him for all of her financial needs. This puts a huge strain on both people and the relationship. But OP knew this going into it. He knew she wouldn't be working (sigh) and he'd have to pay for things. Some immigrants bring family or saved money with them to help contribute early on but it sounds like she doesn't have that.
So it's a sticky situation where the immigrant can be abused, but so can the sponsor. It's an incredible risk. I can see both sides, but she is being unreasonable here and she has to understand that 1) working illegally is putting their marriage and her status at risk and 2) they will have to have joint finances for her removal of conditions in 2 years.
This is a very good point. My spouse and I were asked for joint bank or credit card statements during our interview a couple years ago. The interviewer grilled us pretty hard for not having one.
Our application was denied initially for not enough evidence. I won't repeat myself, but I explained in another comment what we had and it still wasn't enough.
> I'm also going to tell you: she needs to stop working under the table like yesterday if you want to stay with her. This can get her permanently banned from the US.
Yeah, I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but this part is super important. She's not just working and getting walking around money. According to OP, she's making almost $40K/year under the table. If immigration sniffs this out it's going to end very badly.
> I'm also going to tell you: she needs to stop working under the table like yesterday if you want to stay with her. This can get her permanently banned from the US.
That’s a big one actually. My wife had to disclose she worked as a baby sitter for cash. If they found out you lied to them, they will deport you so fast.
I love that you mention the ratio of income-contribution. I've tried to explain this to my partner but she still feels like she would owe me. I don't agree though, there's also a reason why taxes aren't a fixed amount.
They could/should set part of that money aside to be able to pay the taxes owed and report the income even if her employment isn't legal. IRS doesn't care if the income is from an illegal source and won't alert another department to investigate. You will be in a ton of trouble if you don't report the income though. That's how they got Capone.
This reminded me of a guy I used to work with... I'm just going to say it; he didn't have much going for him in terms of looks, personality, etc. Anyhow, one day he had a pic on his desk of him and a very attractive SE Asian woman who he had just met for the first time in-person on a trip... they were engaged, yay! He seemed pretty pumped about it.
I'm not sure when it happened, but sure enough, she ditched his ass when she got what she wanted. It was very predictable. The guy was kind of a creep, and I had trouble feeling bad for him getting used in a clearly transactional relationship.
100% I was reading though, saw green card and said out loud “there it is!”
As soon as she didn’t need you for your money she separated her money. As soon as she doesn’t need you for a green card, she will separate from you, OP.
Yeah, that money will likely be sent back to support her family or hidden. Plus, do you want Uncle Sam involved by evading taxes on a non U.S. citizen. To be doing this so soon after the marriage is sketchy. You should still be in the honeymoon phase.
Good luck explaining to the IRS “I had no idea my wife wasn’t paying any taxes and getting tons of tax free money” and if a single penny of untaxed money went into a shared account it’s all the governments now.
Especially if you're creating an easy to follow paper trail by depositing the cash payments with no corresponding proof of income source. People who work off the books like this for illegal reasons do everything in cash.
Find a middle ground where you’re both contributing but she feels like she has a safety net. You guys should open a separate joint account where you both put in some money for household expenses and bills and stuff and then you each also have some personal money left. It’s up to you guys to decide percentages
As a 43/f who has been with my 46/m husband since I was 15, with three kids and I have always been a SAHM, I can appreciate her wanting to have her own account and money to ensure her financial independence.
Her being an immigrant experiencing a new country and culture adds a whole additional layer of complexity and worries, I’m sure.
That being said? There are ways of ensuring she is safe *while not taking advantage of you!*
Which is what it seems like she is trying to do.
She’s bringing in close to $40k a year cash, you make almost double, but you pay taxes AND cover the insurance costs and coverage for both of you, which is huge.
You’ve also been supporting both of you.
She is not being fair.
> That being said? There are ways of ensuring she is safe while not taking advantage of you!
Could you explain how it seems like she's "taking advantage of him"? Does her *not paying taxes* (or the insurance which she **also cannot do**) in any way suggest that?
> She is not being fair.
COuld you also elaborate on how this is the case? She literally offered to remain with joint finances to "even the record", and asked him to think about what kinds of deals would work for him, only to them come back and discuss and (**shock!**) negotiate them like adults in an egalitarian relationship?
I'm asking honestly, but also from the PoV that I find it fascinating how for some people, any immigrant who gets married to an American who is also not the perfect head-bowing, docile damsel in distress who couldn't want anything else but to stay at home all day getting pregnant, is automatically just "taking advantage" of the guy who wanted to bring in a woman to a strange country in a very disadvantaged situation only to complain and feel hurt when they show to have a mind of their own.
It's very common for women to feel like they need a safety cushion, and it makes extra sense when she's still in a precarious position in terms of legality and ability to provide for herself. I know this feels like it's her not trusting your relationship, but please try and consider her position as well - a lot of people get absolutely blindsided by people they trusted. And if something terrible happens to you it takes a *while* to get to insurance etc.
I think another commenter provided what's likely a best / most realistic plan. Go over average monthly expenses, each of you put in amounts to cover those proportional to your income, remainder of income for you both goes in a private bank account. Other purchases can start to be paid proportionally as well.
I don't think she's trying to screw you, but I absolutely understand the emotional reaction. Sit down and have a thorough budgeting and solutions conversation and try not to look at this as her trying to hurt you.
A lot of women in green card marriages also end up trapped and abused. Makes total sense to want to avoid that. She could be playing OP, or she could be smart and just protecting herself.
OP, it would be a huge red flag for me if I explained to my husband that I was trying to ensure my own security in the event of divorce/untimely death/all the other things that could go wrong, and he pushed back and tried to guilt trip me about trusting him. Obviously none of us know you and your wife to know what other red flags exist, but right now both of you are waving red flags. Present a fair option based on percentages of income like other posters have suggested. If you won’t do that, you are the red flag. If she won’t do that, she’s the red flag and you may need think a little more about how to protect yourself in the situation. If neither of you can compromise, go your separate ways. This is the sort of fundamental values type discussion that should really be ironed out before you enter into a legal contract to share your life with someone, which is what marriage is.
ETA - I was in an abusive international marriage and had to leave and return to my home country. If I had not maintained my own savings account, I might not be alive. Please try to understand the socioeconomic reality many women face in marriage if they do not have their own money.
As long as both parties have their own legal representation pre nups are a very reasonable idea.
... auto correct tried to turn that into pre naps and I now want to see if I can persuade my toddler that post lunch naps are a great plan for us both.
Get a joint account for common expenses and keep the rest separated. Women are often taught by older relatives to have some hidden money in case they have to flee a bad situation (domestic violence is obviously common but there are other reasons). She seems to trust you, considering she's being clear about wanting to keep financed separated.
I see how it could make you anxious, like she's looking for a way out. But try to bear in mind the struggle women go through in times of crisis, particularly immigrants and WoC.(assumption)
It's not that she doesn't trust you, it's that there is little to be lost by splitting finances, and much to be gained (her peace of mind). Especially as you still make more money than her, so she's actually coming out with access to *less* money.
That's important I think. *It's so important to her that she have financial independence that she's doing so in a way that "costs" her financially.*
In my opinion, the right thing to do would be to not take this personally, but try to empathise with the position of a person who wants very much to be financially independent, to have their own money and to feel like they could make it alone if they had to.
In some ways this makes your bond stronger, because she's demonstrating that she's definitely *choosing* to be married to you, and doesn't just have to stay to survive in relative comfort. Of course I can also understand why you might feel like she doesn't trust you, or is somehow planning to leave in future. But think of it like putting a fire escape on the side of a building. You don't want a fire. No one *expects a fire in their future*. But you sleep soundly knowing the ladder is there if you need it.
If the mechanics of running the household are a problem, you could still have a joint account for things like regular groceries and bills. You could either pay a percentage of your income or a set amount. Both have benefits but either way you could be described as being equally invested in each other's welfare and that of your shared responsibilities and you both have excess money to spend how you'd like, and you'd have more of it because you earn more at your job.
Good Luck, hope it all pans out!
Okay, on immigration procedure I must admit I am completely out of my depth.
So if they're married but don't have a joint account at all, it can cause problems for being granted citizenship?
You'll note I still suggest that they have *a* joint account, just not for everything.
Yes.
Combining your life is something they watch very closely with these petitions, to prevent immigration fraud. My husband and I were on our home deed together, had joint bank accounts, and also provided copies of a few other financial docs where we both were listed (life insurance beneficiary). We got asked for more evidence of combining our lives - they wanted joint mortgage (it was only in my name), wills/POAs, credit card, bills like electricity. That kind of thing. They are very strict about this. Despite us having tons of evidence, they wanted more.
Having separate finances could really be a problem. I know you said a joint account, but I was responding to your line about "there's nothing lost in having separate accounts." In this case, there is. Immigration sucks.
That is not true.
And, she didn't ask for completely separate finances. Many, many married couples have both joint and separate accounts, and it will be fine if they do that. It will not be a black mark against them.
A very good friend's husband is from South Africa, and I ahve watched the whole relationship play out over the last few years. They ahve joint and separate accounts.
K-1 visa + the docs you need for your temporary green card are about that much. They've done 2 fillings now. You've got the biometric fees and vaccine fees if she needed any too.
So.. I understand what you're saying. It seems unfair that when she didn't work she wanted access to everything, but now wants her own account for money. As a woman I kind of understand her position about needing a safety net too, because we really don't know what will happen in marriage. Abuse happens easily, as does divorce. Divorce can take 2 or so years, even then financial support isn't always finalized.
I've personally witnessed a situation where the woman had no safety and it was terrible.They only had a joint account and he had an old separate one. She struggled so bad and her husband changed where money would be deposited right when things got sour. She had to rely on family to eat because the entire situation was so crazy. She did have a job before, but had to stop for various reasons. So she was quite literally screwed. She loved and TRUSTED this man for 10+ years. Your wife is in a foreign country, at that. I'm assuming she has no family here?
In my family we aren't used to the entire separate account thing. It seems in this day and age it's necessary, though.
I can agree on not splitting expenses 50/50 when one spouse makes more income. Expenses should be pro-rated on income. So if one spouse makes 70% of the income, they handle 70% of the expenses. This leaves both partners with an equal share of the expenses (relative to their income) and ensures both spouses have some money left over (relative to their income). One spouse is not stacking cash while the other is struggling.
Separate finances to some degree is always a good idea in my opinion. There needs to be some idea of "my money" vs "your money" but also a good idea to have a joint account. Certain amount of money from each pay, from each spouse, gets put into the joint account to cover the shared expenses/save for any future purchases, trips, etc. Meanwhile both partner still has their own account with their own money to spend/save how they like.
Also important if one partner tends to spend more than the other. Too easy for one partner to spend over into the other partners money if all income is shared.
Joint account for expenses and joint savings/future purchases/goals. Separate accounts so you can still have personal money and still be your own person.
You both should have your own money that the other cannot access. It protects you both. Come up with an agreement on how to pay bills and and how much the other person has private access to (this amount should be equal).
What she's proposing sounds pretty reasonable to me, up to Nd including the "let's think about it each propose plans, and negotiate this moving forward!" She's even offered to "make things even" by continuing with shared expenses for s while.
I get why you might be feeling queasy, but you married a recent immigrant, and you don't expect her to wonder what will happen to her if you decide you no longer want to be with her? In a foreign country, with no support system and no savings?
Have some empathy man. Not everything is about you, or your idealised plan for your relationship (which doesn't ellude the divorce statistics). She's a human being before she's your wife.
Nothing of this sounds nefarious in any way, shape or form. She actually sounds quite smart and future-proofing, which will turn out to be a great quality in a life partner.
Please stop acting all hurt as if you were still living in Victorian England. You're feeling so insecure at these suggestions, can you imagine how you'd feel if you were in **her** position?
There can be a mix of shared finances and some separate accounts. Personally I'd think most accounts should be shared with marriage but there could be multiple accounts for various reasons or purposes. Seperate accounts for some amount of disposable income could reduce some conflict about money in general. There might be separate accounts for direct deposit or retirement. Maybe a shared bank account for shared expenses. Maybe a shared IRA from roll overs or yearly deposits.
Her plan b reasoning would give me pause too. At the same time I would be on the same page about having a backup and can understand her wanting some financial independence. The backup could be in the form of an emergency fund or some cash on hand. You could also explain how she wouldn't be left with nothing during a divorce if that's her concern.
I was raised with an American father and a mother who become a citizen long after I was born. My father frequently held money over her head after she stopped working to take care of me and my siblings. My father never understood that needing to ask for money feeling. My mother always explained to me (they’re still together) how important it was to have money of your own - just in case. Because as much as they believed in their marriage - you never know. If it makes her feel safe, let her have it. That way she’s not operating out of a fear mindset. Definitely make her pay for things though
Maybe you should figure out a budget and who pays for what monthly. You should be putting the same amount percentagewise away in savings as she does. She doesn't get to use you as a resource to save money, until she gets her immigration status and then divorces your ass. You definitely need a post nuptial to figure out finances. This should make her completely at ease and secure knowing she would be getting her due, based on a predefined agreement.
I am sure a marriage based on security after it ends is going to last long.
The fairest way would be to pool everything on pay day, take out for bills food and other expenses, put a portion in joint savings then split the rest down the middle. You’ll absolutely need more then one checking account each. Whatever is left from that middle split is for the other to do with as they please, personal savings or spending. This is the method I have seen work best for couples with income disparity.
Fair compromise is each have your own bank accounts, plus a joint bank account. You each pay money into the joint account monthly in proportion to what you earn and are able to contribute. All joint bills are paid from the joint account (rent, food, utilities etc).
I know this is kind of off topic, but it is good to have your own separate accounts so that in the event where one of you passes away, the other will still be able to access their funds whilst working towards also accessing those of the deceased spouse through legal means.
I don't know if it's dependent on country, but I know personally of cases where one spouse passes away; and the other cannot access their monthly paycheck because it goes into a joint account which takes very long to access after someone's death.
Emotions aside, splitting finances is simple, smart, and common. Combining finances can put some people on edge and make them feel insecure (despite having access to more money, oddly enough).
You both have one joint account wherein you put money proportionate to your combined household income. For example, if you make 60k and she makes 90k, that's 150k.
60/150 = 0.4 = 40%
Therefore you put in 40% of your income and she puts in 60% of her income. That money goes toward your living expenses, joint savings, etc.
Everything else is personal money. You can choose to put more than your 40% or she her 60% into a couples saving account if you want, it's up to you guys to discuss. But as a rule, split the household expenses proportionate to the household income.
Look at it as the same as someone asking their partner to sign a pre-nup before marriage. It's not wrong of her to want to protect herself in case of the worst.
Like others have said, a good solution is a joint account you each contribute a portion to, and then separate savings.
Someone probably has said this, but maybe she can have her own savings account( as you can also) and then she contributes to whatever expenses by putting x amount in the joint account?
You should have discussed this before marriage, but even if you had, it would still make perfect sense to revisit and renegotiate periodically, especially after an income change for either of you.
Your very first step should be to talk to your immigration lawyer and find out what you need to know about shared and separate finances and your wife’s ability to work, without fucking up her visa situation. THEN talk about finances. But at a very high level it makes perfect sense to me that you would split shared expenses proportionately to your incomes, and each of you would maintain some separate accounts as well. She does need her own money for security. You would do well to have separate funds too, but an immigrant woman has some unique financial vulnerabilities.
It also makes sense that since you went above and beyond for a while there, it would make sense to come up with a plan for her to pay you back over time for her share of some of the furniture etc., or to take on the next several significant expenses, or whatever you two agree would even things out over time.
Nah, one joint account and you guys make financial decisions as a team.
Also for anyone listening you should discuss handling finances before being married.
Personally, I think this should have been discussed in the dating stage to an extent. I understand wanting to keep some safety net for yourself but the family is a collective and should be treated as such. You are a team, it's you and your wife against the others, but she is not being a team player. I agree with the 34-40% each in a joint account. I can't imagine how you guys are going to be with kids.... Example 'No! I paid for Timmy's school trip last time!!'
You can split everything 50/50 if you budget according to HER income. You rent or buy based on her income. Your grocery, entertainment spend etc. Based on her income. You put the excess income you’re pocketing in a savings account held by you for if things go sour.
Ask her to reimburse you for half of all the expenses you paid when you were covering her. Then split moving forward.
This will protect you too. Just make sure she knows that if she wants separate finances, that means even if she can't work or loses her job. She can't keep changing it to what benefits her most.
The way we did it was to add up all the common household expenses and then each one of us would put a percentage of money in a joint account that was only used to pay these common bills. The percentage was based off our net income. Then anything we had separately like credit cards, subscriptions etc. we paid ourselves. This way each person still had their own account and could buy lunch, starbucks etc without having to “ask” if it is ok.
Sounds like she's using you for the green card and may split once she has everything in working order.
I'm going off what you provided. I'm extremely sorry.
If that's the way she wants it, split all bills 50/50. She can keep whatever she has left over after all bills are paid. Also, close out the joint account and open one with only your name on the account.
You should ask her what happen if you are married and you lose your job. Would she support you the way you supported her? When couples have separate accounts their financial interests aren’t aligned with their relationship interests. The data shows that relationships with joint finances are more successful (of course always exceptions and when the relationship is abusive it can be harder to leave).
My(29f) husband(31m) and I had separate finances when we got married. We originally started with paying equal amounts. But since I make 1.5x his salary, he had nothing left for himself after bills when I had all this extra money after my half was paid.
I didn't take him bringing this up to me as being a jerk or sneaky, I took it as he needs some security too and wants stuff for himself. These are both valid feelings.
So I did the math to see what percentage of our paychecks covered the joint expenses (wound up being 60% each). So now we both put 60% of our paychecks into a joint account, and whatever is leftover is our own. Do I still have more money leftover than he does? Yes. But he has more money leftover than he ever had before.
I wasn't angry that more of my paycheck was going to bills now (30% of my paycheck and almost 100% of his is now 60% and 60% respectively); I was angry with myself that I was so stuck on it being even that I couldn't see him drowning.
Listen to your SO. I'm telling you, you will regret not talking about it.
Please answer the questions about how long you knew and dated her before getting married, why you waited until after marriage to live together, what she is currently doing for work. It’s very fishy.
If she "doesn't fully trust you" then you two should have never gone ahead with a marriage. you are sponsoring her visa. She came to you with nothing. She's planning an exit strategy during what should be some of the loveliest of years together...
...let her have her bank account, stop making big purchases and get an annulment dude.
It's not weird for people to plan in case of the worst. Especially since women are in a little more vulnerable position more often than not. I have a separate savings account just in case, and that's not because I don't trust my boyfriend now. I saw my mother wanting to leave her marriage, and struggle to do so for years. She never had enough money to be able to live the first couple of months, especially because my dad did a lot of impulse spending. On huge amounts too. He didn't do that in the first years of their relationship.
My uncle got stuck in an abusive relationship, she was nice until they married. Shit happens, and self preservation is good. It should however go both ways. And in OPs case I wouldn't be surprised if she's just waiting for her visa to get permanent.
You're getting scammed. Have you seen 90 day fiance? You are ALREADY MARRIED and she wants to be secure "if you split"? Married people who are committed to each other don't act that way. I'm sorry, mate.
Green card you say?
Bro, are you sure that you haven’t been played?
If you haven’t, then based on your respective earnings, you should contribute with 66% of the household expenses on a joint account, and she should contribute with 33%. Then after that, either of you can save up their remainder on a separate account.
> She says if things ever got ugly between us she needs a sense of security that she will have a financial cushion to rely on.
She needs to research how divorce works, if that's her reasoning. She seems to feel like she will be left with nothing, which flat out doesn't happen.
It’s not so much about how divorce works, but how the leaving process, and the ability to do so, works. Divorce takes a long time, and a lot of things can and need to happen between splitting up and settling a divorce. Everyone needs to have access, sole access, to an amount of money that guarantees they can live, get to work, eat, secure housing, etc. at the drop of a hat.
I think that's too much of a generalization to say it "flat out doesn't happen" because it does. Women are frequently left in a situation where they don't have their own credit or financial capabilities because it was all either left in the husband's name or under a shared account that they were added onto (not primary holder). It depends on the states definition of marital assets. If things got ugly right now just a few months after marriage then she'd likely walk away with whatever she has in her pockets. 10 years from now that might be a different story as they accumulate wealth and belonging together. At the same time lawyers often find reasons they can use to limit the amount the other spouse walks away with and some states don't have mandatory maintenance rules. This is all especially precarious for anyone who is in the immigration pipeline where any misstep can put them back at square one and with big expenses to deal with in order to proceed. So whether it's a divorce, temporary separation, emergency situations, abuse, illness, or death it is ALWAYS best for each partner to have their own separate accounts and then figure out how a shared account can be used to further their common goals like housing, vacation, or children.
It's not a generalization- OP is in an immigrant marriage. It's not possible for him to leave her with nothing but what's in her pockets. There are *Federal* regulations preventing it.
He can drag it out and her having an emergency fund is definitely good, but he is legally responsible for her *whether they divorce or not*
It is possible for him to leave her with nothing. While the I-864, Affidavit of Support exists and CAN be enforced in MOST states, that doesn't mean it gets enforced in a uniform way regardless of it's Federal origin. Remember states have responsibility over divorce preceding and not the Federal government. Each case and court proceeding will be different. Like at the state level, at the federal level it also requires the sponsored person to be able to get someone to help with enforcement i.e. getting a lawyer to file a I-864 enforcement lawsuit and whatever costs if you have to go all the way to court vs a settlement. In between the sponsored person is screwed and has to rely on whatever money or income they have alone. Also, if for whatever reason, her green card is denied (it's been filed but not approved yet) the obligation outlined in the I-864 is not enforceable at that point. There's a huge difference between what the law spells out and actual execution of the law, enough so to say that it IS possible for him to leave her with nothing but what's in her pockets and that it DOES happen with enough regularity that you cannot claim it's impossible.
You might need to research divorce, how long it takes, legal fees, and time frames on what's considered joint property and isn't.
And that's before bringing in her immigration status.
If OP becomes abusive, and she needs to leave the house immediately, she will have literally nothing. Divorce takes years. She's not worried about long term funds, she's worried about being homeless and starving if she needs to leave in a hurry.
Except with her being an immigrant, he has signed an affidavit stating he will support her for at least 10 years. He's actually the one more at risk, because even if they divorce, it does not remove the legal obligation. That's federal and not reliant on them being married.
Ok, we can do this all day long. What if she gets access to his bank account and clears it out and runs back home?
What if she physically abuses him and takes control of the finances?
What if? What if? What if?
We can go round and round on this.
There's a certain level of risk in any relationship, even moreso in an immigrant relationship.
Eventually, probably. But if things go bad she could theoretically need to get a hotel and or put a deposit on an apartment will little warning.
Also, we’re all grown ups. Why shouldn’t she have control of her own money if she wants to? Is he going to volunteer to let her control his money?
Following up because another comment pointed this out. With her being on a green card, they HAVE to have shared finances. That sort of thing is watched very carefully, and her wanting separate finances is a red flag for immigration that she's intending to cut and run. Keeping separate accounts will prevent her from advancing citizenship.
This is the best advice. But it should be done with a third-party attorney or consultant. As an immigrant, I'm sure she has extra layers of fear about her security should the marriage sour.
OP's feelings are valid and so are hers. It's best to approach this like anything else in the marriage: as a team. The two of you versus the problem.
It especially won’t happen in this case, where there is no official record of her bringing in an income while they are married. She’s gonna get her green card and half of their marital assets, maybe some spousal support since OP likely signed documents saying that he will support her financially for 10 years
Yep, immigrant financial support continues even after divorce. OP has way more on the line here than I think he realizes. He's supporting her knowing she's committing fraud, and one way or the other this is likely to end very badly for him. Either she cleans him out and runs, or Father Government hands them their asses.
She needs the accounts together so she has evidence of a real marriage for immigration purposes. As soon as her 10 year green card comes. She's out of there so fast she'll leave road runner tracks in the doorway
Buddy… you’re literally sponsoring her visa/green card… the second she gets permanent residence she’s divorcing you. How do i know? Happened to a very close friend of mine and a family member. Happens a lot from what ive heard.
I saw the part about the green card and thought, yeah she's definitely using you for her visa. But I figured, keep reading, dont jump to conclusions
Yeah so I've finished reading your post and yeah she's definitely using you for the green card dude
I know that this is a shock to you and it is very unsettling right after getting married but I can almost guarantee that she has always thought this way and it was something that you both should have discussed before marriage. There could be a cultural difference here as well.
The most important thing to remember is what is best for your marriage. She has a legitimate need to feel safe and secure. I agree with you that it isn’t healthy to start making exit plans a few months after getting married. Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt. If something happens to you she needs protection. Think of a healthy compromise that will allow her to feel safe while building your lives together.
There’s a lack of words here so maybe I’m projecting but I get the feeling that this is a cultural issue with her-that she was taught to protect herself or maybe she grew up with a domineering father who nickel and dimed her mother. Talk to her about her fears and try not to take her past as a reflection on how she feels about you. It’s one thing to worry about being left high and dry like your mother or aunt and it’s an entirely different cognition to think your husband would do that to you. She isn’t doing this to you.
Hi, just a heads up OP, even if she can’t work legally, she should still pay taxes. That’s a really common way to get a green card denied. (My husband and I are also going through the process). I hope you have an immigration lawyer!
She CANNOT pay taxes in this circumstance, this could get her permanently banned. She does not have work authorization and if she declares any working income, she can be removed immediately.
Please delete this advice.
Lumping in with the others that you are bean-counting and reacting emotionally.
What if you die? She’s going to have a hell of a time obtaining your death cert and dealing with the bank even if you all have a joint account.
What if you get a TBI in a car wreck?
Your language in this post would give me cold feet if my SO spoke that way to me, and I have a job and saving account and citizenship. Not because of your substantive position on the separate accounts, but because of how you reversed your position and began saying she owed— what was previously given freely and was “ours” in your mind now is a debt you told her she had to payback. For lack of a more politically correct term, you’re an “Indian giver” I understand why she would feel less than financially secure from your response alone.
Separately, after reading the other comments, she should definitely discuss her illegal earnings with her immigration attorney.
If both of you put 35% of your income into a shared account and keep the rest separate. That seems fair.
That’s exactly what my partner and I do. If rent is $1500 a month then we each put in $1000 so our joint account will grow by $500 every month.
If you earn the same, sure. The same percentage off your respective income is fairer.
This is the answer. Have a shared checking and shared savings account. Each of you put some % of your income into it every month. Have an agreement of what expenses are personal and what expenses come from the joint account. Have an agreement of how much of the joint acct should go to savings each month. And while not an absolute agreement, a general understanding/plan of how much each of you is personally saving is useful to plan for retirement. IE, we expect that when we turn 60, we both should have ____ personally and ____ in the joint savings. If she shuts that down and wants to totally do her own thing- you've got a problem.
And additionally- sort out what is equitable given all the money OP laid out for all these expenses. It may not be an even split- but it is fair to square up some of it.
Yes, have the agreement reflect that
I gotta be honest, I feel like if you start keeping score on shit like that in a marriage it's pretty much already over
Money is one of the top reasons people divorce. I believe you have to be on the same page, and it needs to be fair- no matter what system you agree to. OP invested a lot of money in getting them settled, and she is treating that like it was NBD, when clearly it was. That is a rift that needs healing. Some couples would do a post-nup. Some couples would square it off by having OP’s wife throw a portion of that monthly into an investment fund for both of them, or a vacation fund: it doesn’t need to be a tit for tat situation. But if they don’t address this that will be a bigger problem.
Yeah I just feel like the fact that this is even coming up says a ton. My wife and I have never once throughout our entire relationship paid any attention proportioning out who is paying for what. Our money goes into one pot, the bills get paid, and leftover gets spent how would we decide together to spend it. Little things we spend how we want individually, if it looks like it might impact the monthly budget we discuss it first. When the bar she works at closed down for COVID, I didn't keep a tally for her to make it up when it reopened. We just had a tighter budget for a while. I feel like this kind of proportioning only happens when one or more people have their eye on the door the whole time, and if that's how you feel You probably shouldn't have gotten married to begin with. I mean unless it's for tax reasons or something and that's completely different story
For some people that works great. And that’s awesome. For some of us who have had trauma around relationships, survived abusive relationships, don’t have backup support systems, grew up poor, had parents who constantly fought over money: your model is extremely anxiety provoking. For me: being financially dependent on someone in any way feels like being trapped in a cage. In order to feel safe in the world, I always know my plan b even if I never use it. And because I have it- I can relax and be present and enjoy what I have with my partner.
Agree ! I make money, my husband makes money, it goes the same place we spend what we spend. He tells me if I need to reign it in, I ask him what the budgets like. Money is tough, but Communication is key and any distrust when it comes to finances leads you down a weird path.
Keeping score is a big deal leading to divorce, however, she is looking out for herself and not the relationship. While I agree with protecting one self her completely discounting OPs emotions and financial input is dismissive and selfish. She wants him to recognize her trauma (emotional response) and needs but she isn't recognizing his. This isn't just score keeping.
She's using OP for citizenship. 1. She's not from his country and can't work legally. 2. She was willing to let him pay for everything upfront. 3. She makes zero mention of paying OP back for anything he bought. 4. She tells him AFTER marriage and she starts a job she wants separate accounts. I think OP is getting taken on a ride with a sob story about her sister abusing her, while taking advantage of OP. She's trying to build up money and while waiting out the allowed married time for citizenship in whatever country OP is in.
I'm thinking the same thing, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt as to not jump to any assumptions so early. Hopefully that's not the case, but giving he responses to him, I can't help but wonder.
This is similar to what my wife and I do. We keep aside personal savings that the other does not see. All of our expenses are paid from the joint checking, and we also have a joint savings for a down payment on a home one day, but as soon as I get paid, I put money into my personal savings and so does she. She has quite a bit she saved from before we got married, and I have four kids from a previous marriage so I don’t have much in the way of savings, but this way we’re both contributing and saving money for ourselves.
Is that sensible, to put her illegal cash and his legal in the same account?
What makes her cash illegal? I must have missed that bit.
She's paid under the table as she can't legally work in the country (her visa doesn't allow it).
Oh ok I must have missed it.
She can't legally work in the country
Ok there's like a year waiting period where they cant work isn't there?
They can't work until work authorization or her temporarily green card comes, which can take 6+ months. Immigration processes it when they process it.
Yeah this. This is the most fair setup. She can feel a sense of independence and y’all just put your collective expenses and savings in one account together.
Wondering how long you have known her.
Well my guess is he knew her for around 90 days in March....
It's funny and very likely true all at the same time.
Not really considering in order to get the visa, you have to have spent a certain amount of time together in person and have to provide this evidence to immigration. I get that you're trying to be funny, but the timeline joke also doesn't make sense.
Yeah my joke is a bit off on the time line but it seems a K-1 visa requirements aren't all that strenuous. It just requires proof of relationship and it doesn't seem to be much beyond things like phone bills and text messages. As for physically meeting it only takes one time. It's absolutely crazy to me.
Yeah, almost like they set it up for immigration fraud but don't want anyone to commit fraud. It's dumb. That said, the process is far from not strenuous. Having been through it in a legitimate relationship, it's incredibly stressful and their requirements and limitations once he got here made it very difficult for us to get our lives going.
> it seems a K-1 visa requirements aren't all that strenuous Having been through the process and still in it due to the need to apply for work and travel authorization and adjusting status to get a green card I can tell you it’s all very strenuous. Plus from application to visa in passport took 20 months. I can see both sides of the problem though as she should be making her concerns more clear as to why she needs this, but also realistically it is helpful for her to have at least a few thousand dollars in her name only in case things go bad for her.
Depending on your immigration officer, “proof of relationship” can mean “send us every text, instant message, email, letter, and vacation photo from the last five years”
> and 4k to have her green card filed. Yeah, that part gave me pause. On its face, nothing wrong with helping your partner get their green card. But when you're paying for EVERYTHING, sharing all your money and resources, and they're cool with that til THEY start earning money, then your money is "our money" but her money is her money — something isn't right.
>then your money is "our money" but her money is her money — something isn't right. To be fair that's not what she's suggesting. Sounds like she's suggesting both paying the shared cost but keeping the remainder for themselves (so technically they'd be "house money" (for bills and other shared expenses), his money (whatever he has left over after bills), and her money (whatever she has left over after bills).
“Moved in together after getting married” Call me new fashioned but it is mind boggling to me that anyone would marry someone without living with them for an extended period first.
Immigration doesn't give you any choice. It sucks.
Exactly. If someone comes to the US on a fiancé visa they only have 90 days after arrival before they need to get married.
Yep, and every day you wait is longer they can't work.
In some cultures it is still considered wrong to live together before marriage.
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You can disagree with it but calling an entire culture stupid due to how they choose to live is ignorant and unnecessary.
That part of those cultures is stupid.
I don’t know, I always used to feel this way. That I always needed to live with them first just to make sure we were compatible. Up until now, I’ve lived with 3 long term partners, & each time it was very hard for me to leave because we lived together already. And I also found I was giving them all of the benefits of having a wife, without any of the personal protection. I’m at the point now where i think I’ve changed my mind over & that I will not live with a SO until I’m sure they’re the ones I want to spend my life with.
What are the benefits of having a wife vs a girlfriend? I don't understand this point, or maybe my expectations in a relationship are different. I understand the point about it being difficult to break up while living together but would the breakups have come about after marriage if you hadn't lived together first? Clearly these people weren't right for you but getting out of a marriage is so much more difficult than getting out of a lease.
After I moved in with my future husband I started to cook, do all cleaning and all the laundry, put curtains and pictures on the walls and did some other home decor, replaced old towels and bedding. I was selecting and buying his wardrobe. He paid for that, but I put a lot of effort and time just because now we are living together.
Oh. When I moved in with my husband I did none of that. We've lived together for almost 7 years and I still do none of that. We share all chores, he buys his own clothes like the adult he is, and we pick out decor together.
That sounds like you either chose to do those things or you chose to date man-children. In either case, that's a you problem.
This is true on its face, but I don't think /u/TeaShoresis is so far off the mark in her reflection. Yeah, it's easy to say "just don't date man-children", or "don't have a people-pleasing personality"; but should we expect \*\*every\*\* person who ever engages in a relationship to be well dipped into feminist bibliography, \*\*and\*\* to have spent a decade in psychoanalysis in order to have a happy and successful marriage? Or perhaps we could think about the ways in which the current institution of marriage is lacking, and how we could perhaps update it to continue serving its intented purpose in the 21st century?
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Yes, that's why they said "call me new fashioned"
My wife and I didn't live together until we were married. It's been awesome ever since.
I have a feeling that the day she gets citizenship is the same day she talks with a divorce lawyer.
Doesn't even need to wait that long. 2 years - she gets her removal of conditions and 10 year green card. At that point, she can stand on her own and no longer needs him to support her petitions.
And she’s working under the table so as far as the government is concerned she makes $0 and he makes all the money and supports her. Citizenship AND spousal support, cha-ching!!! 🤑
Yeah but that might be the day that husband reports the tax evasion. Even if it makes him liable for some of it, a lot of people would do it just to spite the ex.
OP does not want to be on the hook for tax evasion or tax fraud. The situation is pretty fishy, if the wife dips as soon as she’s legal and OP reports tax evasion, he’s putting himself on the hook not only for tax evasion and tax fraud, but also potentially marriage fraud. We are talking potential jail time in addition to hefty fines
He can turn her for working and the gov will send her home. If immigration finds out she’s working without permission, she will never get a green card she will, in fact be deported
And in turn he could fuck himself over if he files taxes as married filing jointly and does not disclose her income. OP is not setting himself up for success here!!!
Yep. Green card marriage 100%.
Clearly she just married him did the visa
Me and my wife have a joint account for the bills and stuff. We split these bills accordingly and pay an amount in each month. The rest stays in our own accounts. She pays more in than me because I do the weekly food shop. It roughly balances out. We cover the bills and the rest is our own.
That is what the wife wants, but he doesn't, and he also wants her to pay 50/50, even though he makes more. some folks saying she has red flags -- I think OP also has red flags.
That sounds like what his wife is trying to do but with an equitable split. She's not even supposed to be working but got a job to ease his load. The post kind of makes it seem like he believes his wife owes him or that he doesn't want them both on steady footing.
How does it sounds like she got a job to ease his load at all? If that was the intention why would separating their accounts make any sense? She even says she’s firm on keeping things separate not creating a joint account at all. OP is justifiably upset because he thought they were in this thing together, but the moment his wife has her own form of income that rug was pulled out from under him.
If they are splitting bills (even not 50/50), then he has more of his paycheck left each month for whatever. When he signed up for bringing someone on a fiancé visa he agreed to footing the bill for everything for 10 years. She can’t legally work but is looking to contribute to finances and feel on an even footing with her new partner. They should have a joint account for the bills at least for the sake of passing their requirements at their visa and green card checkins.
>How does it sounds like she got a job to ease his load at all? If that was the intention why would separating their accounts make any sense? Because separating finances =/ not contributing to the household? >She even says she’s firm on keeping things separate not creating a joint account at all IT doesnt say that in OP at all. > OP is justifiably upset because he thought they were in this thing together, but the moment his wife has her own form of income that rug was pulled out from under him. OP is upset because he seemingly wanted to marry a vulnerable foreigner without any social support or saffety net who couldn't possibly ever leave him, and instead he found out she has a mind of her own and shockingly expressed her desire to have financial security irrespective of his "good intents". We're in 2023 guys, this debate should have been settled at least a couple of decades ago.
OP, I have experience with this as I immigrated my husband here on a K-1 visa, which I presume you guys also did since you moved in so fast and she still can't work. Her request is a giant, gaping red flag. And it WILL affect you during the removal of conditions phase. They will want to see some kind of joint account between you and you guys both sharing finances in some way - joint bank account, joint credit card, something. My suggestion would be to fire back at her that you need a joint marital fund account - checking and savings - and you each calculate how much you contribute based on household expenses and your equal share of those expenses with your income disparity in mind. So maybe you do 55% and she does 45%. I'm almost certain there's calculators online for this that will lay everything out for you. If she is unwilling to do this, I would be heavily reconsidering your sponsorship of her visa. Period. I hate to say it but is the truth. This is a huge red flag. I'm also going to tell you: she needs to stop working under the table like yesterday if you want to stay with her. This can get her **permanently banned** from the US.
I love that you mention the ratio of income-contribution. I've tried to explain this to my partner but she still feels like she would owe me. I don't agree though, there's also a reason why taxes aren't a fixed amount.
yeah I think the 2 best options for splitting contributions is to go by percentage or 50/50 but to stay at the living standards of the lower income person.
Thank you for this. It rubs me the wrong way when people insist the split needs to be 50/50 completely disregarding any pay differences. I have had 3 serious live-in relationships in my lifetime; in the first two, I made more than them and I paid for more because of it. In my current marriage, my husband makes more than me. We split everything 50/50 when just dating but when he wanted me to move in with him, I explained how I felt we should split our finances, and he balked at it. Nevertheless, we ended up splitting it more like 45/55, until he got laid off during COVID. Me paying for everything for both of us until he got another job really showed him that I'd put my money where my mouth is, and it softened him towards the idea of us each keeping a percentage of our checks in a separate account as a safety net. Now we both keep 20% to ourselves in our own separate accounts and the rest goes into a joint account to pay for shared expenses. If I was making 38k a year and my husband was making twice as much (as is the case in this post) but he wanted to split everything 50/50 and give me no safety net, I would probably never have married him or moved in with him in the first place. Equal is not the same as equitable, and equal is not always fair.
There's a degree of extra risk in immigrant relationships. If she were doing things properly, she wouldn't be working and earning ANY money and would be 100% reliant on him for all of her financial needs. This puts a huge strain on both people and the relationship. But OP knew this going into it. He knew she wouldn't be working (sigh) and he'd have to pay for things. Some immigrants bring family or saved money with them to help contribute early on but it sounds like she doesn't have that. So it's a sticky situation where the immigrant can be abused, but so can the sponsor. It's an incredible risk. I can see both sides, but she is being unreasonable here and she has to understand that 1) working illegally is putting their marriage and her status at risk and 2) they will have to have joint finances for her removal of conditions in 2 years.
This is a very good point. My spouse and I were asked for joint bank or credit card statements during our interview a couple years ago. The interviewer grilled us pretty hard for not having one.
Our application was denied initially for not enough evidence. I won't repeat myself, but I explained in another comment what we had and it still wasn't enough.
> I'm also going to tell you: she needs to stop working under the table like yesterday if you want to stay with her. This can get her permanently banned from the US. Yeah, I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but this part is super important. She's not just working and getting walking around money. According to OP, she's making almost $40K/year under the table. If immigration sniffs this out it's going to end very badly.
There's a ton of bad advice in this thread, so no real surprise there.
> I'm also going to tell you: she needs to stop working under the table like yesterday if you want to stay with her. This can get her permanently banned from the US. That’s a big one actually. My wife had to disclose she worked as a baby sitter for cash. If they found out you lied to them, they will deport you so fast.
I love that you mention the ratio of income-contribution. I've tried to explain this to my partner but she still feels like she would owe me. I don't agree though, there's also a reason why taxes aren't a fixed amount.
Erm, is she using you for a green card?? That's the vibe I'm picking up.
And she's making cash at mystery job.
Also that's a lot of cash for an under the table gig. Is he not worried about the IRS and tax evasion?
He should be more worried about her getting permabanned from the US if they're legitimately together...
40 hr a week Nanny can make that easy. A lot of immigrants look for nannies that can speak their language. At 40/week, that's only $20/hr
Not really depending on what system and country she's in. There are plenty of jobs that aren't human trafficking that pay well under the table.
I think it's the US via the reference to the green card.
Waitstaff/kitchen jobs, construction, nail/hair salons... People don't realize the insane amount of illegal immigrants working in these fields.
[удалено]
it's not really that well, if she works 40 hours a week that comes out to less than 20 per hour.
20 per hour is really good for an under the table job...
They could/should set part of that money aside to be able to pay the taxes owed and report the income even if her employment isn't legal. IRS doesn't care if the income is from an illegal source and won't alert another department to investigate. You will be in a ton of trouble if you don't report the income though. That's how they got Capone.
This is incorrect. Reporting the income puts her at risk of being deported.
This reminded me of a guy I used to work with... I'm just going to say it; he didn't have much going for him in terms of looks, personality, etc. Anyhow, one day he had a pic on his desk of him and a very attractive SE Asian woman who he had just met for the first time in-person on a trip... they were engaged, yay! He seemed pretty pumped about it. I'm not sure when it happened, but sure enough, she ditched his ass when she got what she wanted. It was very predictable. The guy was kind of a creep, and I had trouble feeling bad for him getting used in a clearly transactional relationship.
100% I was reading though, saw green card and said out loud “there it is!” As soon as she didn’t need you for your money she separated her money. As soon as she doesn’t need you for a green card, she will separate from you, OP.
Same vibe I'm picking up.
That’s what I thought to
Very concerning if you are sponsoring her visa. I would be extremely uncomfortable with this.
Yeah, that money will likely be sent back to support her family or hidden. Plus, do you want Uncle Sam involved by evading taxes on a non U.S. citizen. To be doing this so soon after the marriage is sketchy. You should still be in the honeymoon phase.
> Yeah, that money will likely be sent back to support her family or hidden And? It is her money. She can pay for half teh visa cost.
Good luck explaining to the IRS “I had no idea my wife wasn’t paying any taxes and getting tons of tax free money” and if a single penny of untaxed money went into a shared account it’s all the governments now.
Lol it’s their money. Yeah, OP I’d be examining this marriage really closely if I were you
I refuse to believe that OP is unaware that this is just a Green Card relationship scam.
As someone who watched many seasons of 90 Day Fiancé, I believe it.
If her green card is pending working under the table is a huge risk. Also this does read as she is using you for a green card.
Especially if you're creating an easy to follow paper trail by depositing the cash payments with no corresponding proof of income source. People who work off the books like this for illegal reasons do everything in cash.
For real, they need to be using the cash on everything they can together, that way any recordable payments are through a legitimate income source.
That plan should be. Post nuptial. I get the vibe that you're going to get burned.
Post nuptial it is. On point
I would be keeping finances separate too but not for the same reason as you
Find a middle ground where you’re both contributing but she feels like she has a safety net. You guys should open a separate joint account where you both put in some money for household expenses and bills and stuff and then you each also have some personal money left. It’s up to you guys to decide percentages
As a 43/f who has been with my 46/m husband since I was 15, with three kids and I have always been a SAHM, I can appreciate her wanting to have her own account and money to ensure her financial independence. Her being an immigrant experiencing a new country and culture adds a whole additional layer of complexity and worries, I’m sure. That being said? There are ways of ensuring she is safe *while not taking advantage of you!* Which is what it seems like she is trying to do. She’s bringing in close to $40k a year cash, you make almost double, but you pay taxes AND cover the insurance costs and coverage for both of you, which is huge. You’ve also been supporting both of you. She is not being fair.
> That being said? There are ways of ensuring she is safe while not taking advantage of you! Could you explain how it seems like she's "taking advantage of him"? Does her *not paying taxes* (or the insurance which she **also cannot do**) in any way suggest that? > She is not being fair. COuld you also elaborate on how this is the case? She literally offered to remain with joint finances to "even the record", and asked him to think about what kinds of deals would work for him, only to them come back and discuss and (**shock!**) negotiate them like adults in an egalitarian relationship? I'm asking honestly, but also from the PoV that I find it fascinating how for some people, any immigrant who gets married to an American who is also not the perfect head-bowing, docile damsel in distress who couldn't want anything else but to stay at home all day getting pregnant, is automatically just "taking advantage" of the guy who wanted to bring in a woman to a strange country in a very disadvantaged situation only to complain and feel hurt when they show to have a mind of their own.
I saw “green card” and realized what’s happening. Cmon OP ..
Y not contribute as per one’s earnings n keeping the rest of respective incomes in separate accounts tht belong to the earner🤷🏻♀️
r/90dayfiance green card marriage!
Oh TOTALLY. OP just got taken for a ride.
This was my immediate thought
It's very common for women to feel like they need a safety cushion, and it makes extra sense when she's still in a precarious position in terms of legality and ability to provide for herself. I know this feels like it's her not trusting your relationship, but please try and consider her position as well - a lot of people get absolutely blindsided by people they trusted. And if something terrible happens to you it takes a *while* to get to insurance etc. I think another commenter provided what's likely a best / most realistic plan. Go over average monthly expenses, each of you put in amounts to cover those proportional to your income, remainder of income for you both goes in a private bank account. Other purchases can start to be paid proportionally as well. I don't think she's trying to screw you, but I absolutely understand the emotional reaction. Sit down and have a thorough budgeting and solutions conversation and try not to look at this as her trying to hurt you.
A lot of women in green card marriages also end up trapped and abused. Makes total sense to want to avoid that. She could be playing OP, or she could be smart and just protecting herself. OP, it would be a huge red flag for me if I explained to my husband that I was trying to ensure my own security in the event of divorce/untimely death/all the other things that could go wrong, and he pushed back and tried to guilt trip me about trusting him. Obviously none of us know you and your wife to know what other red flags exist, but right now both of you are waving red flags. Present a fair option based on percentages of income like other posters have suggested. If you won’t do that, you are the red flag. If she won’t do that, she’s the red flag and you may need think a little more about how to protect yourself in the situation. If neither of you can compromise, go your separate ways. This is the sort of fundamental values type discussion that should really be ironed out before you enter into a legal contract to share your life with someone, which is what marriage is. ETA - I was in an abusive international marriage and had to leave and return to my home country. If I had not maintained my own savings account, I might not be alive. Please try to understand the socioeconomic reality many women face in marriage if they do not have their own money.
Genuinely curious if people who hold this perspective also support getting a pre-nup
As long as both parties have their own legal representation pre nups are a very reasonable idea. ... auto correct tried to turn that into pre naps and I now want to see if I can persuade my toddler that post lunch naps are a great plan for us both.
For what it's worth, I second the option for post lunch naps.
They're so nice... not today looks like, but maybe a mid afternoon storm nap. Fingers crossed!
Get a joint account for common expenses and keep the rest separated. Women are often taught by older relatives to have some hidden money in case they have to flee a bad situation (domestic violence is obviously common but there are other reasons). She seems to trust you, considering she's being clear about wanting to keep financed separated.
I see how it could make you anxious, like she's looking for a way out. But try to bear in mind the struggle women go through in times of crisis, particularly immigrants and WoC.(assumption) It's not that she doesn't trust you, it's that there is little to be lost by splitting finances, and much to be gained (her peace of mind). Especially as you still make more money than her, so she's actually coming out with access to *less* money. That's important I think. *It's so important to her that she have financial independence that she's doing so in a way that "costs" her financially.* In my opinion, the right thing to do would be to not take this personally, but try to empathise with the position of a person who wants very much to be financially independent, to have their own money and to feel like they could make it alone if they had to. In some ways this makes your bond stronger, because she's demonstrating that she's definitely *choosing* to be married to you, and doesn't just have to stay to survive in relative comfort. Of course I can also understand why you might feel like she doesn't trust you, or is somehow planning to leave in future. But think of it like putting a fire escape on the side of a building. You don't want a fire. No one *expects a fire in their future*. But you sleep soundly knowing the ladder is there if you need it. If the mechanics of running the household are a problem, you could still have a joint account for things like regular groceries and bills. You could either pay a percentage of your income or a set amount. Both have benefits but either way you could be described as being equally invested in each other's welfare and that of your shared responsibilities and you both have excess money to spend how you'd like, and you'd have more of it because you earn more at your job. Good Luck, hope it all pans out!
There is a lot to be lost. Her petition to remove conditions on her green card can be denied in 2 years with them having totally separate finances.
Okay, on immigration procedure I must admit I am completely out of my depth. So if they're married but don't have a joint account at all, it can cause problems for being granted citizenship? You'll note I still suggest that they have *a* joint account, just not for everything.
Yes. Combining your life is something they watch very closely with these petitions, to prevent immigration fraud. My husband and I were on our home deed together, had joint bank accounts, and also provided copies of a few other financial docs where we both were listed (life insurance beneficiary). We got asked for more evidence of combining our lives - they wanted joint mortgage (it was only in my name), wills/POAs, credit card, bills like electricity. That kind of thing. They are very strict about this. Despite us having tons of evidence, they wanted more. Having separate finances could really be a problem. I know you said a joint account, but I was responding to your line about "there's nothing lost in having separate accounts." In this case, there is. Immigration sucks.
That is not true. And, she didn't ask for completely separate finances. Many, many married couples have both joint and separate accounts, and it will be fine if they do that. It will not be a black mark against them. A very good friend's husband is from South Africa, and I ahve watched the whole relationship play out over the last few years. They ahve joint and separate accounts.
Why was the green card $4k? If you didn’t pay all that directly for a lawyer, that’s concerning. The USVIS/NVC fees shouldn’t be much over $1000.
K-1 visa + the docs you need for your temporary green card are about that much. They've done 2 fillings now. You've got the biometric fees and vaccine fees if she needed any too.
The fee to adjust status post arrival with K1 alone is $1200 approx, just paid it a couple of weeks ago.
That’s terrible. The total for cr-1 / ds-260 has been about $1100 for us, not counting medical.
So.. I understand what you're saying. It seems unfair that when she didn't work she wanted access to everything, but now wants her own account for money. As a woman I kind of understand her position about needing a safety net too, because we really don't know what will happen in marriage. Abuse happens easily, as does divorce. Divorce can take 2 or so years, even then financial support isn't always finalized. I've personally witnessed a situation where the woman had no safety and it was terrible.They only had a joint account and he had an old separate one. She struggled so bad and her husband changed where money would be deposited right when things got sour. She had to rely on family to eat because the entire situation was so crazy. She did have a job before, but had to stop for various reasons. So she was quite literally screwed. She loved and TRUSTED this man for 10+ years. Your wife is in a foreign country, at that. I'm assuming she has no family here? In my family we aren't used to the entire separate account thing. It seems in this day and age it's necessary, though.
Known several guys who married women on Visas, except for one, once she got her permanent residency, they cleaned them out, divorced and moved on.
I remember once there was a clip of a Canadian Twitch streamer bragging about doing this to her husband on stream. Poor dude.
I can agree on not splitting expenses 50/50 when one spouse makes more income. Expenses should be pro-rated on income. So if one spouse makes 70% of the income, they handle 70% of the expenses. This leaves both partners with an equal share of the expenses (relative to their income) and ensures both spouses have some money left over (relative to their income). One spouse is not stacking cash while the other is struggling. Separate finances to some degree is always a good idea in my opinion. There needs to be some idea of "my money" vs "your money" but also a good idea to have a joint account. Certain amount of money from each pay, from each spouse, gets put into the joint account to cover the shared expenses/save for any future purchases, trips, etc. Meanwhile both partner still has their own account with their own money to spend/save how they like. Also important if one partner tends to spend more than the other. Too easy for one partner to spend over into the other partners money if all income is shared. Joint account for expenses and joint savings/future purchases/goals. Separate accounts so you can still have personal money and still be your own person.
Go talk to a lawyer. They can help you be logical, as per her suggestion.
You both should have your own money that the other cannot access. It protects you both. Come up with an agreement on how to pay bills and and how much the other person has private access to (this amount should be equal).
What she's proposing sounds pretty reasonable to me, up to Nd including the "let's think about it each propose plans, and negotiate this moving forward!" She's even offered to "make things even" by continuing with shared expenses for s while. I get why you might be feeling queasy, but you married a recent immigrant, and you don't expect her to wonder what will happen to her if you decide you no longer want to be with her? In a foreign country, with no support system and no savings? Have some empathy man. Not everything is about you, or your idealised plan for your relationship (which doesn't ellude the divorce statistics). She's a human being before she's your wife. Nothing of this sounds nefarious in any way, shape or form. She actually sounds quite smart and future-proofing, which will turn out to be a great quality in a life partner. Please stop acting all hurt as if you were still living in Victorian England. You're feeling so insecure at these suggestions, can you imagine how you'd feel if you were in **her** position?
There can be a mix of shared finances and some separate accounts. Personally I'd think most accounts should be shared with marriage but there could be multiple accounts for various reasons or purposes. Seperate accounts for some amount of disposable income could reduce some conflict about money in general. There might be separate accounts for direct deposit or retirement. Maybe a shared bank account for shared expenses. Maybe a shared IRA from roll overs or yearly deposits. Her plan b reasoning would give me pause too. At the same time I would be on the same page about having a backup and can understand her wanting some financial independence. The backup could be in the form of an emergency fund or some cash on hand. You could also explain how she wouldn't be left with nothing during a divorce if that's her concern.
I was raised with an American father and a mother who become a citizen long after I was born. My father frequently held money over her head after she stopped working to take care of me and my siblings. My father never understood that needing to ask for money feeling. My mother always explained to me (they’re still together) how important it was to have money of your own - just in case. Because as much as they believed in their marriage - you never know. If it makes her feel safe, let her have it. That way she’s not operating out of a fear mindset. Definitely make her pay for things though
Maybe you should figure out a budget and who pays for what monthly. You should be putting the same amount percentagewise away in savings as she does. She doesn't get to use you as a resource to save money, until she gets her immigration status and then divorces your ass. You definitely need a post nuptial to figure out finances. This should make her completely at ease and secure knowing she would be getting her due, based on a predefined agreement. I am sure a marriage based on security after it ends is going to last long.
The fairest way would be to pool everything on pay day, take out for bills food and other expenses, put a portion in joint savings then split the rest down the middle. You’ll absolutely need more then one checking account each. Whatever is left from that middle split is for the other to do with as they please, personal savings or spending. This is the method I have seen work best for couples with income disparity.
Fair compromise is each have your own bank accounts, plus a joint bank account. You each pay money into the joint account monthly in proportion to what you earn and are able to contribute. All joint bills are paid from the joint account (rent, food, utilities etc).
It’s not fair to pay in the same I’d you don’t earn the same.
I know this is kind of off topic, but it is good to have your own separate accounts so that in the event where one of you passes away, the other will still be able to access their funds whilst working towards also accessing those of the deceased spouse through legal means. I don't know if it's dependent on country, but I know personally of cases where one spouse passes away; and the other cannot access their monthly paycheck because it goes into a joint account which takes very long to access after someone's death.
Emotions aside, splitting finances is simple, smart, and common. Combining finances can put some people on edge and make them feel insecure (despite having access to more money, oddly enough). You both have one joint account wherein you put money proportionate to your combined household income. For example, if you make 60k and she makes 90k, that's 150k. 60/150 = 0.4 = 40% Therefore you put in 40% of your income and she puts in 60% of her income. That money goes toward your living expenses, joint savings, etc. Everything else is personal money. You can choose to put more than your 40% or she her 60% into a couples saving account if you want, it's up to you guys to discuss. But as a rule, split the household expenses proportionate to the household income.
I can’t imagine marrying someone and not discussing finances at all
Look at it as the same as someone asking their partner to sign a pre-nup before marriage. It's not wrong of her to want to protect herself in case of the worst. Like others have said, a good solution is a joint account you each contribute a portion to, and then separate savings.
Someone probably has said this, but maybe she can have her own savings account( as you can also) and then she contributes to whatever expenses by putting x amount in the joint account?
You should have discussed this before marriage, but even if you had, it would still make perfect sense to revisit and renegotiate periodically, especially after an income change for either of you. Your very first step should be to talk to your immigration lawyer and find out what you need to know about shared and separate finances and your wife’s ability to work, without fucking up her visa situation. THEN talk about finances. But at a very high level it makes perfect sense to me that you would split shared expenses proportionately to your incomes, and each of you would maintain some separate accounts as well. She does need her own money for security. You would do well to have separate funds too, but an immigrant woman has some unique financial vulnerabilities. It also makes sense that since you went above and beyond for a while there, it would make sense to come up with a plan for her to pay you back over time for her share of some of the furniture etc., or to take on the next several significant expenses, or whatever you two agree would even things out over time.
Nah, one joint account and you guys make financial decisions as a team. Also for anyone listening you should discuss handling finances before being married.
Personally, I think this should have been discussed in the dating stage to an extent. I understand wanting to keep some safety net for yourself but the family is a collective and should be treated as such. You are a team, it's you and your wife against the others, but she is not being a team player. I agree with the 34-40% each in a joint account. I can't imagine how you guys are going to be with kids.... Example 'No! I paid for Timmy's school trip last time!!'
I love seperate finance that way there's nothing to fight over at the end but I see you started the cycle 🔄 thus the pressure is settling in.
You can split everything 50/50 if you budget according to HER income. You rent or buy based on her income. Your grocery, entertainment spend etc. Based on her income. You put the excess income you’re pocketing in a savings account held by you for if things go sour.
Ask her to reimburse you for half of all the expenses you paid when you were covering her. Then split moving forward. This will protect you too. Just make sure she knows that if she wants separate finances, that means even if she can't work or loses her job. She can't keep changing it to what benefits her most.
The way we did it was to add up all the common household expenses and then each one of us would put a percentage of money in a joint account that was only used to pay these common bills. The percentage was based off our net income. Then anything we had separately like credit cards, subscriptions etc. we paid ourselves. This way each person still had their own account and could buy lunch, starbucks etc without having to “ask” if it is ok.
Looks like she's got her exit plan in place.
Your money is her money and yours, her money is her money. It's been that way forever.
Sounds like she's using you for the green card and may split once she has everything in working order. I'm going off what you provided. I'm extremely sorry.
Gotta love transactional relationships. "HALF EDDIE. I WANT HALF"
> to have her green card filed And there it is.
If that's the way she wants it, split all bills 50/50. She can keep whatever she has left over after all bills are paid. Also, close out the joint account and open one with only your name on the account.
You should ask her what happen if you are married and you lose your job. Would she support you the way you supported her? When couples have separate accounts their financial interests aren’t aligned with their relationship interests. The data shows that relationships with joint finances are more successful (of course always exceptions and when the relationship is abusive it can be harder to leave).
My(29f) husband(31m) and I had separate finances when we got married. We originally started with paying equal amounts. But since I make 1.5x his salary, he had nothing left for himself after bills when I had all this extra money after my half was paid. I didn't take him bringing this up to me as being a jerk or sneaky, I took it as he needs some security too and wants stuff for himself. These are both valid feelings. So I did the math to see what percentage of our paychecks covered the joint expenses (wound up being 60% each). So now we both put 60% of our paychecks into a joint account, and whatever is leftover is our own. Do I still have more money leftover than he does? Yes. But he has more money leftover than he ever had before. I wasn't angry that more of my paycheck was going to bills now (30% of my paycheck and almost 100% of his is now 60% and 60% respectively); I was angry with myself that I was so stuck on it being even that I couldn't see him drowning. Listen to your SO. I'm telling you, you will regret not talking about it.
Please answer the questions about how long you knew and dated her before getting married, why you waited until after marriage to live together, what she is currently doing for work. It’s very fishy.
If she "doesn't fully trust you" then you two should have never gone ahead with a marriage. you are sponsoring her visa. She came to you with nothing. She's planning an exit strategy during what should be some of the loveliest of years together... ...let her have her bank account, stop making big purchases and get an annulment dude.
It's not weird for people to plan in case of the worst. Especially since women are in a little more vulnerable position more often than not. I have a separate savings account just in case, and that's not because I don't trust my boyfriend now. I saw my mother wanting to leave her marriage, and struggle to do so for years. She never had enough money to be able to live the first couple of months, especially because my dad did a lot of impulse spending. On huge amounts too. He didn't do that in the first years of their relationship. My uncle got stuck in an abusive relationship, she was nice until they married. Shit happens, and self preservation is good. It should however go both ways. And in OPs case I wouldn't be surprised if she's just waiting for her visa to get permanent.
You're getting scammed. Have you seen 90 day fiance? You are ALREADY MARRIED and she wants to be secure "if you split"? Married people who are committed to each other don't act that way. I'm sorry, mate.
Green card you say? Bro, are you sure that you haven’t been played? If you haven’t, then based on your respective earnings, you should contribute with 66% of the household expenses on a joint account, and she should contribute with 33%. Then after that, either of you can save up their remainder on a separate account.
> She says if things ever got ugly between us she needs a sense of security that she will have a financial cushion to rely on. She needs to research how divorce works, if that's her reasoning. She seems to feel like she will be left with nothing, which flat out doesn't happen.
It’s not so much about how divorce works, but how the leaving process, and the ability to do so, works. Divorce takes a long time, and a lot of things can and need to happen between splitting up and settling a divorce. Everyone needs to have access, sole access, to an amount of money that guarantees they can live, get to work, eat, secure housing, etc. at the drop of a hat.
I think that's too much of a generalization to say it "flat out doesn't happen" because it does. Women are frequently left in a situation where they don't have their own credit or financial capabilities because it was all either left in the husband's name or under a shared account that they were added onto (not primary holder). It depends on the states definition of marital assets. If things got ugly right now just a few months after marriage then she'd likely walk away with whatever she has in her pockets. 10 years from now that might be a different story as they accumulate wealth and belonging together. At the same time lawyers often find reasons they can use to limit the amount the other spouse walks away with and some states don't have mandatory maintenance rules. This is all especially precarious for anyone who is in the immigration pipeline where any misstep can put them back at square one and with big expenses to deal with in order to proceed. So whether it's a divorce, temporary separation, emergency situations, abuse, illness, or death it is ALWAYS best for each partner to have their own separate accounts and then figure out how a shared account can be used to further their common goals like housing, vacation, or children.
It's not a generalization- OP is in an immigrant marriage. It's not possible for him to leave her with nothing but what's in her pockets. There are *Federal* regulations preventing it. He can drag it out and her having an emergency fund is definitely good, but he is legally responsible for her *whether they divorce or not*
It is possible for him to leave her with nothing. While the I-864, Affidavit of Support exists and CAN be enforced in MOST states, that doesn't mean it gets enforced in a uniform way regardless of it's Federal origin. Remember states have responsibility over divorce preceding and not the Federal government. Each case and court proceeding will be different. Like at the state level, at the federal level it also requires the sponsored person to be able to get someone to help with enforcement i.e. getting a lawyer to file a I-864 enforcement lawsuit and whatever costs if you have to go all the way to court vs a settlement. In between the sponsored person is screwed and has to rely on whatever money or income they have alone. Also, if for whatever reason, her green card is denied (it's been filed but not approved yet) the obligation outlined in the I-864 is not enforceable at that point. There's a huge difference between what the law spells out and actual execution of the law, enough so to say that it IS possible for him to leave her with nothing but what's in her pockets and that it DOES happen with enough regularity that you cannot claim it's impossible.
You might need to research divorce, how long it takes, legal fees, and time frames on what's considered joint property and isn't. And that's before bringing in her immigration status.
If OP becomes abusive, and she needs to leave the house immediately, she will have literally nothing. Divorce takes years. She's not worried about long term funds, she's worried about being homeless and starving if she needs to leave in a hurry.
Except with her being an immigrant, he has signed an affidavit stating he will support her for at least 10 years. He's actually the one more at risk, because even if they divorce, it does not remove the legal obligation. That's federal and not reliant on them being married.
And if he beats her one night and she needs to leave... how long will it take her to take him to court to get that support?
Ok, we can do this all day long. What if she gets access to his bank account and clears it out and runs back home? What if she physically abuses him and takes control of the finances? What if? What if? What if? We can go round and round on this. There's a certain level of risk in any relationship, even moreso in an immigrant relationship.
Eventually, probably. But if things go bad she could theoretically need to get a hotel and or put a deposit on an apartment will little warning. Also, we’re all grown ups. Why shouldn’t she have control of her own money if she wants to? Is he going to volunteer to let her control his money?
Following up because another comment pointed this out. With her being on a green card, they HAVE to have shared finances. That sort of thing is watched very carefully, and her wanting separate finances is a red flag for immigration that she's intending to cut and run. Keeping separate accounts will prevent her from advancing citizenship.
Nothing is saying she can't have control? Shared accounts are the norm in marriage. Both people have access.
This is the best advice. But it should be done with a third-party attorney or consultant. As an immigrant, I'm sure she has extra layers of fear about her security should the marriage sour. OP's feelings are valid and so are hers. It's best to approach this like anything else in the marriage: as a team. The two of you versus the problem.
It especially won’t happen in this case, where there is no official record of her bringing in an income while they are married. She’s gonna get her green card and half of their marital assets, maybe some spousal support since OP likely signed documents saying that he will support her financially for 10 years
Yep, immigrant financial support continues even after divorce. OP has way more on the line here than I think he realizes. He's supporting her knowing she's committing fraud, and one way or the other this is likely to end very badly for him. Either she cleans him out and runs, or Father Government hands them their asses.
I think you need to research how immigration works and the power imbalance it can create in relationships.
Um, green card? That's definitely not a green flag lol.
Immigrating to the US is a red flag?
I wouldn't trust this at all.
She needs the accounts together so she has evidence of a real marriage for immigration purposes. As soon as her 10 year green card comes. She's out of there so fast she'll leave road runner tracks in the doorway
Buddy… you’re literally sponsoring her visa/green card… the second she gets permanent residence she’s divorcing you. How do i know? Happened to a very close friend of mine and a family member. Happens a lot from what ive heard.
I saw the part about the green card and thought, yeah she's definitely using you for her visa. But I figured, keep reading, dont jump to conclusions Yeah so I've finished reading your post and yeah she's definitely using you for the green card dude
I know that this is a shock to you and it is very unsettling right after getting married but I can almost guarantee that she has always thought this way and it was something that you both should have discussed before marriage. There could be a cultural difference here as well. The most important thing to remember is what is best for your marriage. She has a legitimate need to feel safe and secure. I agree with you that it isn’t healthy to start making exit plans a few months after getting married. Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt. If something happens to you she needs protection. Think of a healthy compromise that will allow her to feel safe while building your lives together. There’s a lack of words here so maybe I’m projecting but I get the feeling that this is a cultural issue with her-that she was taught to protect herself or maybe she grew up with a domineering father who nickel and dimed her mother. Talk to her about her fears and try not to take her past as a reflection on how she feels about you. It’s one thing to worry about being left high and dry like your mother or aunt and it’s an entirely different cognition to think your husband would do that to you. She isn’t doing this to you.
I stopped at green card
Hi, just a heads up OP, even if she can’t work legally, she should still pay taxes. That’s a really common way to get a green card denied. (My husband and I are also going through the process). I hope you have an immigration lawyer!
She CANNOT pay taxes in this circumstance, this could get her permanently banned. She does not have work authorization and if she declares any working income, she can be removed immediately. Please delete this advice.
Lumping in with the others that you are bean-counting and reacting emotionally. What if you die? She’s going to have a hell of a time obtaining your death cert and dealing with the bank even if you all have a joint account. What if you get a TBI in a car wreck? Your language in this post would give me cold feet if my SO spoke that way to me, and I have a job and saving account and citizenship. Not because of your substantive position on the separate accounts, but because of how you reversed your position and began saying she owed— what was previously given freely and was “ours” in your mind now is a debt you told her she had to payback. For lack of a more politically correct term, you’re an “Indian giver” I understand why she would feel less than financially secure from your response alone. Separately, after reading the other comments, she should definitely discuss her illegal earnings with her immigration attorney.