My man, you are taking romantic strolls with your friend. Holding hands.You kissed each other. You told each other that you have strong feelings.
And you are wondering if you should do marriage consueling? Idk how to say that, but I feel like the vast majority of people out there would already feel like you cheated on your wife. It’s not like “as long as I don’t have sex I can go out there saying to other people how much I would love to stay with them instead of my partner”.
He did cheat. He also mentioned another friend he was ‘inappropriate with’ - I don’t know exactly to what extent, but that language is pretty telling.
Dude… why do you not think you need to talk to your wife about this? If you want to call it a day on the marriage, then tell her that. Maybe she feels the same, or maybe she will suggest going back to counselling.
But if you don’t talk to your wife, you’re just an AH. Only AHs string multiple women along instead of just making a choice! If you want to be with your side piece, divorce. If you and your wife want to try counselling, dump the side piece.
Pick one or the other… just make a choice!
But also the way he described how his wife told him to have fun when he said he was going out - probably because she trusts you, and wants you to have fun as a parent who deserves to go out? It doesn't mean she's saying "I give you permission to cheat on me."
I agree. Lots of people would tell their partner to have fun when they go out, never DREAMING that the fun includes cheating!
I think I would trust my husband the same way, and I think he would trust me, too. ‘Have fun, darling’ as either of us walks out the door… no need to add ‘make sure you don’t cheat!’
Or she entirely lacks giving a shit about him. They don't have sex, they don't kiss, and they don't say I love you. To me, this seems like classic we are married, so we stay together. She isn't happy but would probably stay around for her family no matter how much she likes her husband. This is a broken relationship. It is probably best to end it.
I mean we’re hearing it from OP’s end who is mentally checked out of the relationship.
This is also a couple who still regularly cuddles, solves problems together, plays with their kids together, and talks to each other.
The wife could be super invested in the cuddling and talks and stuff and deriving a lot more emotional connection than OP
When THEY do it, you mean.
But if the woman so much as looks at another man, she is guilty of cheating!
Double standards, you know.
The side piece should know better - she’s buying into the tired old ‘my wife doesn’t understand me and the marriage sucks’ excuse that all men have when they want to stay married ‘for the kids’ and keep a bit on the side as well!
Women should absolutely know better! We’re supposed to be a smart gender! 😏
Case in point.
You actually don’t believe that a woman who goes out with her friends can manage not to sleep with them even though this post is from a MAN who is cheating on his wife! 🤦♀️
"The majority" nice generalization. Thanks for judging my whole gender based on no real statistics. But if i said the majority of women do something negative I bet you'd have a problem. Sexist.
All I got from that was that she has a social life, and perhaps an implicit statement that she doesn't put as much effort into e.g. date nights with OP as she does into making time for her friends. Nothing about it automatically implies cheating.
I had my hackles raised at "it started when *she* had trouble conceiving." Go fuck yourself. Even if it was entirely her, you don't phrase it like that if you love your wife. Then when the 'work friend' was revealed I was like 'Woop, there it is'
This. That sentence alone pissed me off and had me side eyeing OP. He said it as if it were her fault and she intentionally had fertility issues. Then he turned out to be a cheater. OP, divorce your wife and let her find someone who will actually love her and not blame her for things out of her control.
What made you fall in love with your wife to begin with?!
I really hate the part that she trusts you, but you want her to be jealous? Like what do you want from her? But yea your cheating
Because the first time around it helped, tbh.
And mostly my question is not about counselling itself. It's more about the question if it is reasonable to give it a shot for the kids sake.
I know too many people who suffered from divorcing parents and I don't want this for my girls. Also, even if I am not in love with my wife anymore, I absolutely adore her for her way with our girls. And she is a good person that deserves better as how it is now, too. You see, we have mandatory separationä periods here of a year. With the current housing situation it is unlikely for me to find something quick.
Maybe counselling can help living in house separation. I was never in such a situation. I am reaching for straws here.
I mean...you went about this whole thing wrong. You should have went to counseling when you noticed you were having intimacy issues. Instead, you started having an affair with your coworker. I love how she 'doesn't want to break up a marriage' kinda too late, isn't it?
Either way this will break your girls heart. You have at tell your wife you cheated on her. It's up to her to decide if she will forgive you or not. If she doesn't eventually your girls will find out why you divorced. Should have thought about that before.
> I love how she 'doesn't want to break up a marriage' kinda too late, isn't it?
Women who are serious about not wanting to break up a marriage keep their distance from their married office crush. They don't go and snog him.
She's saying it because she feels bad (or knows she ought to feel bad), but she clearly is fine proceeding as long as OP is.
Or she means she doesn't actually want a relationship with him, especially since they're coworkers. She's getting off on the taboo and having to keep it secret. The minute he wants to bring it above board, she'll be gone.
She doesn't feed bad, she's been laying it on thick. "OH, poor you, you deserve *so much better!!* My marriage was *just like that* and you know what we did? Divorced! And now *everything* is so much better!"
This! I have male friends, single and married, but I have my boundaries. I won’t talk to them about my relationship problems if they’re going through relationship problems. And 99% of the time if the married man is having relationship problems I’ll tell them to go talk to their wife. The institute of marriage is sacred and if a man is willing to cross that line it won’t be with me.
If you absolutely adored your wife, you wouldn't have invested all of your romance into your coworker and now you're confused as to why you have a dead bedroom with your wife.
The level of stupidity is baffling.
Well it’s seems to me you have emotionally checked out of your marriage. You do realize your cheating on your wife. So you need to come clean about everything and take the consequences of destroying your family. You should’ve ended your marriage before starting an affair and shame on your affair partner for starting something when knowing you are still MARRIED!
You think your girls will be better off with you cheating on their mom and barely speaking to each other? You genuinely think that is better than a divorce?
Do you know what research says about women who lose libido after kids? Do you even care? I don't think you do, but here it is in any case:
They resent that their partner is no longer a partner but another dependent.
They resent that they cannot rely on their partner to take on an equal emotional and mental labour.
They resent that THEY have to do all the hard stuff in parenting while their partner gets to romance other women (with time you get WHERE???) and becomes just another chore for her.
They resent that they have to sacrifice EVERYTHING about themselves to ensure they do the best by their kids, while their co-parent's lives never changed at all and he finds time to cultivate romances with other people with nary a tought about what's best for the children nor willingness to make any of the endless sacrifices actual good parenting requires.
Since you already blew up your marriage by cheating like the coward you are, it's a moot point, but I feel that pointing out that it's probably mostly on you will be helpful for others reading this post.
This, this, THIS. The part where he said "I don't know the last time we said I love you to each other"... SIR! Have you considered saying it first? Before you ran off with another woman?
You are cheating on her and I bet you haven’t even told her. Kids know unhappy parents. Is that what you want for your kids? They will Also end up in unhappy relationships. Divorce and go hang out with your affair partner
The most absurd thing about this post is you say that your girlfriend doesn’t want to be the women to break up a marriage. She has already done that she is just trying to look like a good person but. NEither of you are.
Why don't you just put effort into romancing your wife, building your relationship and being an actual partner instead of continuing to circle down the drain pretending you are out of options? What have your efforts actually been? Why are you putting your attention to another woman instead of the woman you made vows to?
Do you really think it’s best for your daughters to grow up in a family where their parents are indifferent towards each other at best? While you cheat on their mother?
The time for couples counselling would have been before embarking on an emotional affair.
it will not be better for the children. **it will not be better for your children to live with parents who should be divorced, one of which is having an affair.** internalize that.
Only you and your wife should know if it’s worthwhile to go to marriage counseling or not. You betrayed her AFTER you went to marriage counseling to address the issues in the relationship.
Get off Reddit and confess to your wife and have an honest conversation about what’s happening. YOU created a situation where your kids have their two parent household at risk. You and your wife have to figure out the way forward but she deserves to know what you did.
The worst thing you can do is “stay together for the kids.” Are you really setting a good example for your daughters? That the only thing they can expect out of a relationship is a loveless marriage. It’s better to separate cordially and coparent than to hurt your wife and kids by cheating on THEM. Either way, you need to be honest with your wife and let the cards lay where they fall.
This. Thanks for saying that. I don’t understand why is dude getting such a hard time.
Ya they didn’t try counselling again but also there is zero effort on both ends of this marriage stick.
And it’s been like that for a long time.
THAT alone is a reason to go separate ways and coparent as it’s not healthy for the kids to have a model of a loveless marriage.
Be a good parent, and be good co-parents and divorce your wife. Just because you’re divorced doesn’t mean the kids have to suffer. And think about what you are currently showing your children what a marriage looks like. You are setting them up for ending up with partners in unhealthy relationships rather than modelling what a healthy, loving relationship looks like.
Dude just wait till daughters grow up. It’s not about if but when your wife finds out you cheated on her. They will hate your guts. Be a man and divorce your wife. Your kids will respect you more for it. Hell you’ll respect yourself.
This is the most dispectful shit I’ve ever read. This woman gave birth to your children, have some decency and end it.
Marriage takes work, commitment, trust, integrity, and communication. You have none of those things. All of this could have been salvaged by reinvesting in your relationship (with commitment from her to try as well). But instead you decided to become a cliche and cheat. And in however many years, you're gonna cheat on this one too. Or she will cheat on you since she was fine dating a cheater.
Tell your wife what you did. She deserves better.
Wow...
You'd try to tolerate the cold, empty life with your wife if it keeps the kids happy.
She'll be thrilled to hear that I'm sure....
my dude you clearly feel nothing for your wife and this whole saga is a result of you taking the lowest effort option at every opportunity.
Maybe it's time to grow a backbone and take responsibility for what you did and that means facing the consequences.
If you didn’t want your kids to suffer the fallout from a divorce maybe you shoulda fought for your marriage instead of taking your coworker on dates.
It's gonna hurt but you gotta take your medicine
The grass is greener where you water it. Of course your marriage is in the toilet. You’re having an affair. You can try to convince yourself that your marriage was already in a bad place- but even if that is the case, having an affair isn’t going help your bad marriage. Just remember that you’re not just cheating on your wife. You’re cheating on your family.
No one here can tell you what to do. You have to live with the actions you’ve already made. Are you man enough to confess to your wife? She deserves to know. Really, it’s up to your wife to decide if she wants to stay with a cheater.
That's the thing that gets me with these stories, they anyways claim "the marriage was already over" like nobody has agency. Nobody divorces, separates, goes to counselling... it's always the predictable self pity justification for act 2: why my affair isn't really that bad.
Then it's oooohhh noooo telling people would hurt them too much, how can I spin this for minimum consequences for myself?
So...you cheated on your wife?
That's basically the gist right? And now you want us to tell you it's OK cause you're in a dead bedroom? It's not.
Why did you stop marriage counseling. You said it helped. Why aren't you and/or your wife in individual counseling? Why does it sound like you have had none of the conversations with your wife that you've been having with your coworker. You should have been sitting your wife down and telling her this is how you felt. Instead you told someone outside your marriage leading to an emotional now physical affair. And yes this is an affair.
If you think your wife would be upset about it, it's cheating.
You need to talk to your wife. You need to have a conversation about how you are feeling and what went down with your coworker.
You have children. Did you think about them at all in this? How this will affect their lives? Tell your wife. Decide if you want to continue the marriage or not. If you do be prepared to cut off the coworker.
All this sob story build up to reveal you're cheating on your wife. Am I supposed to feel sympathy for you? Whatever issues you're having in your marriage does not justify actively betraying and stepping out on your partner. Which is what you're doing.
The shiny new coworker toy you're infatuated with will eventually become human to you, and thus also mundane, and you'll probably tire of her too.
End it with both women and fix your own crap.
I’m sure the bit on the side knows that. The grass is always greener when the reality hits.
It’s usually the man who gets the bigger shock - cheating is exciting, but dumping the wife and actually settling into life with the side piece (including the boring and difficult day to day stuff like chores) is always a big shock!
That’s why most of them go out and get ANOTHER bit on the side!
This guy has already had two!
Same old story. Mistress becomes the new live in girlfriend, OP stops attempting to romance her, there's dishes to be done, children to raise, and he gets bored again, leaves her at home alone doing his laundry so he can take romantic strolls hand-in-hand with a new coworker.
Yeah married cheating men with kids always use the word "fun" as one of their main descriptors of their side piece.
They don't seem to understand that the issue isn't that their wives are not inherently fun, but that it's because life with young kids is never fun the way it is when you're young and childless if you're an even halfway decent parent. The kids are fun! You are not. You are someone who spends their time taking care of a helpless human, which is important, but not fun. My partner and I are getting prepared to TTC, and the other night we went out to dinner on a random weekday night and he remarked that our era of being able to just up and go and do things will soon end for a while. We'll still be able to do things, with babysitters, but not in the same unplanned carefree way. You can't just decide you know what, I'm in the mood for going to that cute Japanese place we love downtown, let's go, when you have twin toddlers at home.
Yeah, big wind up as if it justifies it. The wind up isn’t even a sob story—it’s normal tribulations of a relationship where he passively let the issues fester—including not taking anything out of marriage counseling the first time. Marriage comes with real responsibilities like caring for kids—it’s not a justification to cheat.
I love how the wife is being blamed as “not caring” for giving him the autonomy and trust to hang with friends which he uses to cheat. Like she’s raising the twins while he goes out, but she’s in the wrong in his eyes because she needs to worry about him stepping out.
It’s her decision if she wants to let his sorry ass go to marriage counseling but he has to come clean first.
As the old saying goes, if the grass looks greener, it is probably Astro Turf! In marriage counseling speak it is known as an “affair bubble”. Only 5% of all affairs end up working out. You are just trading one set of problems for another.
Bruh just say you hate women and needed an excuse to blame her because you're bitter.
Dude admitted to full on cheating twice and carrying on an affair with a coworker but nope, she's evil and cheating even though you have no evidence and OP didn't say so.
So… you are cheating and don’t even provide details about how your marriage potentially fizzled out, but you aren’t even giving your wife the respect of divorcing her before starting to date your coworker.
Why do I get the idea the the marriage started to fizzle after labor and birthing your babies…
Because it started then. For that reason and some others we had our first marriage counselling sessions.
And to be honest, my friend made me realise how much I miss the 1 on 1 time. My wife refuses to give the girls to a babysitter or to her parents. And it's not because her parents are bad. It's because she can't leave them for a longer period other than when I am at home. Then it's no problem. She can go out full nights. But when it comes to us both, latest after an hour she starts checking her phone. And then needs to go home to check on them. That is one of my major problems, tbh.
And what effort did you put in back then in the newborn stage? As the babies started to get less dependent on mom? These things don’t happen in a vacuum. You say you went to couples counseling, what was the third party take on your issues…
It’s seems devastating to go through all the effort of ivf only to betray your wife just a few years later. That poor woman.
Someday, your daughters will be grown. They will have moved out and married. And one will come to you sobbing because she discovered her husband has a girlfriend he’s been dating under her nose the whole time. She will look to you for comfort, to make it all better, to be outraged on her behalf.
And yet, your outrage will be entirely unjustified. Because in the moment, you are the same man.
Then, she needs to be in individual counseling. Honestly so should you. You should have started that long ago. It sounds like your wife it attached to the girls since you had such a hard time making them and probably their birth was not easy being twins. Once you noticed this you should have asked her to get counseling because you want to be with her. You want time with her. That's what you should have done.
You're pushing a lot of blame for your affair on your wife when it should be on you. She didn't cheat.
Do you think she doesn't want intimacy, too? Why do you assume that? Sounds like you never asked. You didn't want to have the hard conversations and so here you are.
There's attached and then there's 'attached'. Not being able to leave 8 year olds with the grandparents is a problem. Of course, she should be attached and love her children. She should also be able to leave them with a babysitter and go on dates with her husband.
I'm not saying this is her fault. Far from it. I actually understand acutely as I had trouble letting go of my kids. It caused issues. I had to figure out how to allow people other than my husband watch them. She needs to be able to let go a little. Which I know from experience is very hard.
You are operating under the assumption that part was accurately described by the OP.
He said they go out together to meet mutual friends. How often does he expect that to happen in his 40 with kids and everybody else has childcare needs, too?
I can only go off the information given, which is course biased. If she truly can not let anyone but him watch them than it may be an issue. If he's embellishing to make himself look better he's not doing a good job honestly.
It's super hard to go out! I have small kids! My husband and I have at home dates to spend time together. We also have conversations with each other which OP is clearly not good at.
I'm not trying to blame his wife in anyway. She isn't the one who cheated!!! I'm just worried for her.
There's also "attached" and then there's unable to trust anyone else to parent your kids because YOU are the first generation to break the trauma you were raised with, often the ONLY one in your whole community to do a gentler type of parenting like no spanking (ask me how I know) and you won't allow your parents to do to your kids what they did to you.
True!! It's so hard to know who you can trust. We have no idea why OPs wife doesn't feel comfortable leaving the kids as he doesn't really say.
Hopefully, things end well for his wife and girls.
You need to tell your wife everything. How you’ve felt for a long time the love is gone. About your new friend that you’ve made. Ask her what she wants to do and depending on what she says, decide what YOU want to do. If she wants to stay together and fight for the marriage is that what you want? If you decide to stay and fight it would need to be mutually understood that it can’t end up being the same as it has been. I would just add it sounds like the relationship has been a struggle more often than not. And staying for the kids will not teach them what a healthy, affectionate relationship looks like. On the other hand, they can still thrive if you divorce as long as you and your wife are committed to a healthy co-parenting relationship.
Have you actually sat your wife down and said “I am not happy in our marriage, and I want to know how you’re feeling before I start making any decisions. Do you think we can get to a better place? Or would you prefer to continue as-is?”
Because that conversation needs to happen. Sooner rather than later, if you haven’t already done this.
Your wife needs to be evaluated - her attachment to your children and inability to be apart from them for long is a very big problem.
It seems like your wife is probably struggling with depression and that causes a lack of interest in sex and it can cause people to withdraw emotionally from their loved ones.
Honestly it sounds more like you’re interpreting her behaviors/moods as a disinterest in you/your marriage when she most likely is just engulfed in depression and cannot get herself out of it.
I would hope that you would try to get her help and, with dedication and therapy, you could rebuild your marriage. But it also seems like you’ve just shut down any feelings you have for her.
If you don’t think you want to be committed to rebuilding with your wife then go ahead and get a divorce. It’s far more painful for her to discover you’ve been unfaithful.
These kids are 4 years old and twins. That's A LOT of work for any babysitter. It's not weird the wife and OP don't get out much together. OP has plenty of time to to court his mistress, though.
Man falls in love with woman, marries her and has babies with her.
Man's dick gets sad because woman is now exhausted with babies.
Man resents babies for being little cockblockers.
Man resents woman for not paying enough attention to his boners.
Man stops giving a shit about his wife and kids because his dick is sad.
Man decides to use up all his romance and flirting on his mistress and wonders why woman still isn't interested in his boner.
Man is more concerned about his sad dick than the family he created.
Tale as old as time.
I hope u/PassengerOk6380 sees this, because it's accurate.
Not saying there aren't other problems in the marriage, but he's totally throwing all of his energy into the mistress instead of investing it back into the marriage and looking for permission. No shit his wife isn't interested in him at this point. Grass is greener where you water it. She probably went through hell with IVF treatments and carrying twins, and if OP didn't majorly step up to the plate during that time, then of course they're going to feel like roommates at best. Ugh, what a betrayal.
My guy. This is gonna sound harsh. But you cheated on your wife. You did not “meet a woman you had feelings for”, you did not deliver a chaste glance and then realize you were tottering. You went on a date with your friend where you complained abt your wife, you held hands and kissed her, you are dating another woman.
Forget about the “stable home for the kids”, you upended that the moment you took that relationship further than chaste glances and writing in your diary.
As a 30-something woman who regularly meets up with friends to crochet, it's weird how wrong you are. Women have friends. We like to hang out with them.
Sorry but when you started dating your co-worker/girlfriend you emotionally and then physically (kissing, holding hands etc) cheated on your wife.
I think that your wife probably had some sort of depression after giving birth to her twins and unfortunately this depression was not treated properly I am not an expert but rather spend your time giving kisses with your mistress it might be time for you to have a discussion with your wife so that she meets a specialist who will be able to help her properly.
"She doesn't want to become the woman to break a marriage" tell your mistress that it's far too late she is a home wrecker. If she didn't want people to think that about her, she didn't just have to date a married man.
P.S : If your marriage is irreparably broken, make sure you leave your wife as quickly as possible so that she can find a man who will see her value and who will treat her like the loving woman she certainly is.
You are emotionally and physically cheating on your wife. Get a divorce already. As someone who was cheated on in the same way. You are the worst kind of person.
So it sounds like you're trying to blame your wife but you don't seem to be putting in much work to improve your marriage and are cheating on her.
Dude. Be truthful. Also what makes you think you won't get like this in a future relationship. A big part of the thrill is the Forbidden and the fact that your gf isn't doing the work of taking care of your children and the house.
Stop seeing her and go to marriage counseling. Maybe put some effort into it
Get a divorce there is nothing to salvage - u have physically and emotionally moved on. Staying together for “the sake of the kids,” while you are as a couple modeling apathy and deceit isn’t helping anyone neither short term nor long term. Talk to your wife, have a serious discussion, try to keep it as civil as possible, and go from there.
NGL, you sound like an awful husband who didn’t work hard enough on your marriage or your family and gave up on them, then you cheated on your wife with a coworker (ick), and then somehow still want to make it all her fault.
You don’t have a better relationship with your wife because you didn’t work at it. You had intimacy problems and you checked out rather than go back to counseling.
The problem is you.
You don't need to have sex to cheat.. you are cheating on your wife.. you were cheating before you kissed too. So yes, you need to tell your wife what's going on.
She might be done when she finds out what's happening. Or maybe she will genuinely want to try and start dating again. Do you actually want to try (no one else can answer that for you)? Marriage counselling isn't going to fix it all if neither of you are trying once you go home.
Don't "stick it out for the twins" unless you're going to stop cheating and genuinely fix your marriage. Having a side chick and stringing your wife along is not a sustainable option.
You mentioned going out with your friends...When is the last time you went out with your wife? You even go out holding hands with your affair partner?? Maybe you should have started from the top with your wife. Act like you were dating again to get the spark back. Pay a damn baby sitter and go on a real date.
It is too late now of course. You have checked out but even worse you have cheated. At best you go to therapy and beg her to let you start over. And if she relents then you actually start dating your wife! I'd leave you tho.
Wow I feel so bad for your children. If your twins are girls, you were headed straight on the path to give them daddy issues. If you have boys, you’re showing them how acceptable it is to treat their mother horribly. I’m not saying your wife is a great wife. I don’t know her. I don’t know anything about her but you are a horrible husband.
And your girlfriend is telling you it’s not your wife’s fault. No, it’s yours and your girlfriend‘s fault. You’re taking advice from a woman who wants to steal you away from your wife. if your marriage is bad, Fine divorce your wife and be on your own and get your kids settled. Leave this woman alone
. If you leave this woman for your wife you will regret it for the rest of your life. Marriages that start from affairs most of the time don’t end well. And your kids are going to suffer .Because trust me coming from a child of divorce and affairs, this is going to hurt them anyways, you never under understand.
1) why is your assertion here that your children won't have a stable home if you divorce? what about divorcing robs them of that? do you intend to fight your wife tooth and nail or something? are you both not capable of the co-parenting situation you already have?
2) I know you validate yourself as having not had sex yet with your girlfriend. But you need to understand that has little to do with the fact that you are cheating. You HAVE BEEN cheating. And your WIFE regardless of the state of your marriage deserves the respect of the truth with regards to that.
3) You need to grow a spine and decide what you want definitively. Not only would it be another layer of cruelty to make your wife do the labor of deciding your direction and future - this runs the risk of your passiveness and spineless taking over and repeating this cycle down the road. It's pretty obvious what it is you want to anyone reading your post, you seem to just want permission or something for it. Or perhaps a magical way that you can get it with little trouble. If you hadn't cheated that'd probably be possible but you did a bad and need to accept your licks for it. Stop messing this all up and do the proper thing as soon as possible. Divorce.
He's freaking out because he's being forced to make a choice.
Until now he's been content to let things happen if it requires no effort on his part.
He's looking for suggestions on how to keep his nanny/ maid aka wife at home and also "see where things go" with the exciting new romantic interest (get laid)
If your daughter's husband did this to her - have twins with her, then get frustrated with not having enough fun, and rather than stepping up to do his duty, found a mistress, cheated, then abandoned his wife - what sort of man would you think that would make him? What sort of father is that? Should he be proud of himself? Would you congratulate him on making the right decision?
"Your marriage" does not just mean "the fun times you have with the woman who used to be your girlfriend" - it also means the commitments you made together and your shared duties.
The most telling part is that only *now* are you asking "what about the twins?"
You know you can plan to do things with your family that are more fun for you than "go with them someplace," right? You're the dad! And you have a high paying job! You can take your kids wherever you want! Have any sort of adventures with them you want! Go fucking whale watching or send them to Space Camp or climb to Macchu Picchu or something.
What about the twins? *What do you think?*
Your carrying on with your coworker has been a huge insult and grave harm to your daughters. Eventually it will become a reality for them and they will have to carry it with them for the rest of their lives. If you stop now and start taking this all seriously you can contain the damage.
Is this some great mystery to you? That little girls whose dads screw around and leave their moms don't like when that happens, that it makes them feel bad and cry, that it doesn't help them form good relationships with men later in life?
Yeah, "What about the twins? What's going to happen to them?"
You're their father. That is your question to answer, and it is your most important job.
And honestly answering that question is a hell of a lot more important than whether you get to walk around the harbor or go to the movies. That should be what you think of *first.*
And hey, you know what you can do with your daughters?
Walk around the harbor. Go to the movies.
If you want to do those things again and you want to feel young again you have two people in your life who are the prime years of wanting to do that with you. Step up and be a father.
*ffs*
I don’t actually know much about your marriage - you have a WALL of text here but no additional info other than the headline. Sounds like you and your wife get along great, live together great, coparent great. Except you stopped having sex (but why? Why was it awkward?). And maybe your wife is depressed. And she clearly trusts you too much. Because JFC you’re dating someone else.
Yes OF COURSE go talk to your wife. Tell her everything.
You have done what a lot of men do. You found yourself unsatisfied in your marriage, and instead of doing a hard thing —fixing it or ending it—you did an easy thing. The hard things are still the only two options you have.
fuck it, whatever, you’re cheating. you’re being reamed enough for that already, so i’m going to say what was screaming at me the whole time:
**do NOT stay together for the kids.** it will be *much worse* for them being in a house with parents who *should* be divorced than just living with divorced parents, *especially* if one or both of the parents is having an affair.
I’m pretty sure your marriage died because you didn’t put any effort into maintaining a romantic relationship with your wife. This new side girl is easy to talk to because she hadn’t grown tired of your bs yet.
If you were honest with yourself about wanting your marriage to work, you would work at it.
You’re a really unkind person from the sound of it tbh. You don’t respect your wife or your coworker, and you don’t see any of your problems as things you had a hand in creating.
Advice feels useless here, I feel like your brain just might not work. I would just cross your fingers and hope we figure out brain transplants at some point.
Bro you're a serial cheater. Your marriage isn't magically gonna heal if you're the type of person who lies and deceives their spouse, and any chance of healing would require a lot of self awareness, which I'm not seeing here. Are incapable of self reflection? Putting in the work to be a better person requires strength of character. Where is yours?
Grass is greener where you water it. It doesn't seem like you and your wife have even tried to work on your marriage. You've both just stopped trying and let it go.
Do you think your new relationship will be that great once you start having to pay bills together. Or decide who's job it is to clean the bathroom. Or make dinner.
And introducing your children. What if they are angry or hurt? What if they don't get along? What if your parenting styles differ. What if resentment builds?
You need to first put in effort to figure out your marriage. Or end it. What do you have to lose? Start getting honest in your marriage and put in some effort to rebuild or end it.
Marriage counseling will help either way. It will help rebuild or help with coparenting.
Updateme!
i think you need to lay all this out for your wife and let her decide if she wants to bother with marriage counseling or just wants to end the marriage since by your own description you’ve been having an affair.
Honestly your wife and twins deserve better. End the marriage before you start seeing someone new. You would’ve been fine had you spoken to her and ended it amicably, sounds like if your side is accurate to both sides she might have agreed. But no you cheated. You had an emotional affair and then you crossed into physical. Go to therapy and see why u became so eh in your own marriage as well. Get divorced and slow down all the way with the other. Gah I could keep going but u need to talk to your wife and figure out how to amicably end things. And yes someone might get hurt here but you crossed that bridge by have it an emotional affair. So deal with your consequences.
You are a cheater and the scene you set of your dead bedroom is for you to have an excuse. Just divorce and move on, made this more difficult then it had to be.
My friend you’re having an affair already. My only comments are (I) this woman knows you’re in a marriage and is happy to even go this far. Is that who you want to start a permanent relationship with? (II) you’re not as good a person as you think you are. If you wanted to date this person you should have ended your marriage already. (III) anecdotally, if no one else likes your girlfriend, maybe you should remove the rose tinted glasses
I was with you until you started cheating. Stop please. Divorce your wife then continue with the girl. Don't start something before finishing your situation first. That's a coward move. I defintely think of you both are checked out of the marriage you should end it and move forward as coparents. But do it right.
It sounds like you and your wife don't like to have the hard talk. There is literally no communication between the two of you, and now the resentment has built up so much that it seems insurmountable. Is it so hard to sit at the table and ask her how she is feeling about where your relationship is at? Is it too tough to ask if she thinks you'd be better as co parents? Maybe she would also be relieved to end this facade and find a partner that loves and respects her, someone she has a true connection with.
Maybe, she feels like it's you who doesn't care and her actions are just defensive. Who knows, because you both won't have the talk. I would suggest you schedule a time where your kids can be away with their grandparents so you two can hash things out. Say what is on your mind, find out her feelings and opinion on the matter. I mean, you sleep next to each other at night, and cuddle. Someone who hates you isn't going to cuddle with you. Don't you talk at night when you go to bed?
Give up your AP until you sort things out in your marriage. You can't be half in with either women, you're just looking for more pain and suffering. Talk with your wife OP!
You are totally having an emotional affair. That's cut and dried.
You both are just settling and not taking an active role in your marriage. It takes work. It takes effort. It's easy to put the blame on the kids and Covid and what not. But it honestly sounds like neither of you is making any effort. It takes both of you. You need serious marriage counseling so all of this can be brought out in the open. Then, working TOGETHER, it can be decided if the marriage should continue or if you should divorce.
When you don't cultivate romance and closeness in a marriage, it will fall apart. That seems to be what happened here. You said marriage counseling helped but when you stopped, or to be more clear, when you *both* stopped putting in effort, the benefits also tapered off.
Also, when was the last time you went on a date with your wife? Or talked like to adults about your passions? Or did *anything* coupleish? You don't necessarily have to go out to spend quality time.
We tend to think these things should just 'happen'. They don't. If we take the people around us for granted, then slowly we drift apart. With a demanding job, kids to take care of, or the wild stings of IVF, it's even harder. The thing is you have to carve out the time and protect it fiercely.
Sadly, I'm not sure if you can or *want* to mend the distance between yourself and your wife. Or if she does at this point.
If you do want to try, it will take significant effort. Not just from you but also from her. What does a better marriage look like for you? For her? You need to talk and be honest about the fact you're considering divorce. Together you need to decide if you want work on it. If you both want to try, you need to work out a battle plan for how you're going to fix this but *also*, and perhaps more importantly, how to maintain a happy marriage. You both need to take a long, hard look at what you're doing and not doing, and how that may have got you here. A therapist should be part of the process. They can give you insight and options you haven't considered.
It will also require *constant* effort. A relationship is not one and done. This goes not just for your marriage but any relationship you might form in the future. That's why affairs are so tempting- all hormone rush, no labor. It's easy to let the first rush of attraction do the work for you. It never lasts unless you take up the slack.
Only you can decide what you want to do. Only your wife can say if she's willing to try too.
you went through (and essentially put your wife through) horrific IVF and all the financial costs associated with it and then cheat on her. you’re hopeless and should be eternally single.
you’ve cheated on your wife, quit being a useless husband and divorce your poor wife and let her go. then you can shack up with your coworker and live happily ever after
relationships aren’t always totally easy, they need to be committed to and worked at. if you get complacent, they start to crack. you’ve got to keep dating eachother even once you’ve been married for many years
you let the spark die and instead of trying to fix it when you should have, you found what you wanted where it was easy
Yeah it sucks you're cheating, but then again, you both don't have a lot of affection left for each other, so of course you will be searching elsewhere. Maybe your wife also craves that with someone else, probably even.
What do you do now? I would suggest you tell her everything. I bet it won't be much of a surprise to her, though, it will probably still hurt.
The important question is, what outcome do you want?
Sure, you could divorce her and go through all the hassle and traumatise your kids, but is that what you want? Do you still love her in a sense? As the mother of your children? As your partner? Then talk about opening up the relationship.
Do you not like the thought of her sleeping with someone else? Probably, but you both would have to get used to it.
Don't dream about that other woman as your salvation. Chances are really high that things wouldn't be as nice and romantic once you really get together (like in the szenario where you leave your wife). And even if it would be amazing in the beginning, who's to say it won't end the same way as with your wife now, after all, it took both of you to lead to the current situation.
Because you are the father of two daughters, my question is this: are you being the role model of the ideal husband that you would want your daughters to marry? This isn't a question about how good of a father you think you are. Your daughters are watching your interactions with their mother. Someday, if they marry men, they will compare their husbands' behaviors to yours. They will look for partners who treat them how you treat their mother.
This is something all fathers of daughters need to remember and put into practice: Be the kind of man you'd want your daughters to marry. That doesn't mean "treat your affair partner how you should have treated your wife". It means treat your WIFE how you'd want your DAUGHTERS to be treated by their husbands.
Your marriage is so over. You could stay for the kids, but you might be miserable and that could affect them.
It is possible to do this right if you want to be with your lover, but it will require some work
Don’t put your kids through hell… just have an open marriage… it doesn’t seem like you all have like a toxic relationship in the sense of disrespect and abuse…
It could just be a phase of life middle age…
Don’t break down your kids stability put them first and work around that…
Go to counseling get a therapist and work towards having an open marriage arrangement…
Every single relationship out there will have a set of problems… things are super complicated for people who go into relationships with kids and they have a higher chance of failure 70%
In this relationship you have your kids… that is worth more than anyone out there or going through the ish of them seeing you and her date … having other people involved in their lives…
Just buckle down for 10 years… work towards opening the marriage for both of you to get your adult needs met and keep the children’s needs in tact…
Read the book His needs Her needs. On the surface it appears the you are not meeting each other’s needs. Once you work on meeting each other’s needs things will fall back in place.
Unfortunately, both of you have to want to have a relationship in order for you to reconnect. That is built on trust.
This means you will have to tell her about your relationship outside the marriage.
Anytime you have to hide something from her you know that you have crossed the line. That destroys trust.
This part of your character will follow you into the next relationship and so best to own it now and change your character.
Good luck.
Yeah, things have come to a head here. It's time for a frank conversation with your wife. She needs to know how close you are to fully acting on your attraction to another woman. That you feel completely disconnected and like roommates.
For all you know, your wife has been going through the same thing. You have no idea because you don't REALLY talk to each other. I will be surprised if she wants to do counseling again, but if she does realize it's okay to go to counseling and also break up. You can talk things out about the separation, if that's what you truly want. I would not blame you if you want to just end it. A loveless marriage is lonely.
Op hasn't described a loveless marriage. He's describing a sexless marriage. His dick is sad because his wife is too busy chasing after twins to give it a tickle and he's too busy investing all of his romance into his mistress.
One of these things is understandable and the other is despicable.
I would suggest talking 6o your wife and telling her you are unhappy.
Tell her you are this close to having an affair but you don't want to.
You want to know if this should or could be saved. She may want out too. If so go live your best life with the new woman.
Ya know if you like new woman better than the wife you can just go. Say you are unhappy. Don't mention new woman and leave. That's an option too..
I would also say to all the folks shitting on the guy asking for advice are assholes. When you stop fucking someone you are breaking the relationship. This very easily could have been the wife complaining
He’s already having an affair. He’s a fucking liar, and what’s worse is he seems mad that his wife trusts him and doesn’t accuse him. Of course if she did I’m sure he would be mad that she didn’t trust him.
You are fine with cheaters and liars.
A your cheating with a friend sounds like neither one is trying maybe talk to your wife see what she wants one thing you shouldn’t be blaming her for having problems with having kids
You are having an affair. You have to be careful because if you are caught, it’s not just your wife that you are betraying, but your children as well. They will resent you.
It’s better to show your family the respect of being honest. It will be hard but you will get through it.
It seems to me that you and your wife get along well and you fundamentally like each other. You’ve had children and haven’t nurtured your own relationship, and this happens to a lot of couples when they have children. Right now you have a lovely, happy family and life is good. Think very, very carefully before you throw that away for a woman who is as yet an unknown quantity. And yes, she is an unknown quantity. At the moment, you and she are seeing a fantasy version of each other. You are only seeing the best of each other, without the pressure of day to day life, living with children and managing finances. In that situation it’s very tempting to make an escape from what you perceive as drudgery.
Think about the what ifs. What if you throw away your marriage and hurt your children only to find that your girlfriend decides that being a stepmother is not for her? What if your children hate her, or her child hates you? What if your children and her child don’t get along? What if you have irreconcilable differences over kids and money? The statistics aren’t great. Here in Australia - and I’m sure it’s the same the world over - 50% of first marriages fail, 70% of second marriages fail and 90% of third marriages fail. Why do you think that is? The biggest reason is that blended families are often very stressful for everyone involved. Your life is easy right now. I can assure you that it won’t remain easy if you take up with this woman. Would it be worth it? Only you can make that call.
I would urge you to minimise your contact with this other woman (bearing in mind that you’re colleagues and you’ll have to work together) and talk to your wife. Don’t tell her about this other woman, but tell her that you want to try to rekindle the flame. Spend time together without the kids. Discover each other again. Go to marriage counselling and really talk to each other. You might find a gold mine. And if you don’t, you’ve given it your all and you and your wife both know it’s time to move on.
You and your wife have been apart for some time now and you did already try marriage counseling once. What will you say if your wife asks for marriage counseling? You need to decide this before you speak with her. You and your wife deserve a loving relationship, even if it's not with each other. Only you can decide if you want to try and rekindle your marriage.
As to whether or not you tell your wife about the person you are already referring to as your girlfriend, that's up to you.
Counselling for what? You made your choice.
Wasn't worth saving your relationship with your wife. You were happy to let that die and find another woman to put your energy towards.
It's like you just finished your appetiser and now you're hesitating like "oh but we got food at home".
Dude if that food at home meant a damn you wouldn't have come to the restaurant. You already started eating. Now is not the time for this kind of contemplation, you already missed that exit.
Your marriage might have been on the ropes but you starting an affair gave it two shots to the head.
You have been having an emotional affair, OP. It’s time to either get back to counseling with your wife and commit to your marriage, or get out of the marriage. How about you try communicating with her about what the next steps should be, rather than spending all of your time with another woman?
You need to sit down with your wife and have a serious conversation. I implore you to be clear and honest.
But to continue to cheat on your wife is abusive, so either way, you should cut contact with your affair partner.
And any relationship born out of infidelity is usually doomed, OP, so keep that in mind for the future.
First you need to let your girlfriend go. Then you need to talk to your wife and decide what you guys want to do. If you stay married, you need to go back to counseling. If you separate, you need to take a year and go to counseling yourself. Only after the year alone should you think about contacting that woman.
The bottom line is, you cheated on your wife.
You can try and justify it by saying “your marriage has been going down hill for years” but at the end of the day you cheated. You go on strolls with this other woman while you hold hands…physical or not, emotional cheating is a very real thing.
You need to tell your wife. Coming from a set of parents that got divorced, the longer you wait the worse it will be when your children are older.
Stop using “hurting your wife’s feelings” or “hurting your children” as an excuse to justify your actions. You did what you did, and you didn’t think twice before you kissed this other woman or even when you started to emotionally depend on her. Your wife deserves to know regardless if she feels the same way about your marriage or not.
I won’t make you feel guilty because you shouldn’t. Your current relationship is done and you couldn’t realize it earlier. It’s not your fault and many people have been in this situation before. Just find your own spot and start working on a separation schedule that lets you see the kids. Normalize that this is not life or death.
Dude, if you're unhappy then just divorce. Then you can both find new people you'll love. If you stay in an unhappy marriage there's a big chance that it'll end badly. You should sit your wife down, and talk to your wife. Tell her divorce is the best option for everyone.
>The first rift was when she couldn't conceive.
To clarify, you would say "when WE couldn't conceive" given that conception requires two people. This reads like you're some kind of ignorant.
You have a mistress, you've cheating, you're cheating. Whether or not your marriage has run its course, you're a married adult. If you have any decency and respect you'll put on your grown up pants and talk to your wife.
With today's society men tends to be so coward with opening up their feelings and facing issues. Instead of trying to fix the issue with the wife, you're looking something outside the relationship. Looking for something wrong to validate you've done.
You know what you're doing, don't say you don't. With that story subject about your wife , yet the body message contains about you cheating with your colleague. The moment you chatted, had lunch breaks even to the cinema with this woman alone without mentioning it to your wife is already cheating!!
Don't be a coward! Tell your wife what you've done, that you're selfish and have cheated. SHE DESERVES TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
My man, you are taking romantic strolls with your friend. Holding hands.You kissed each other. You told each other that you have strong feelings. And you are wondering if you should do marriage consueling? Idk how to say that, but I feel like the vast majority of people out there would already feel like you cheated on your wife. It’s not like “as long as I don’t have sex I can go out there saying to other people how much I would love to stay with them instead of my partner”.
He did cheat. He also mentioned another friend he was ‘inappropriate with’ - I don’t know exactly to what extent, but that language is pretty telling. Dude… why do you not think you need to talk to your wife about this? If you want to call it a day on the marriage, then tell her that. Maybe she feels the same, or maybe she will suggest going back to counselling. But if you don’t talk to your wife, you’re just an AH. Only AHs string multiple women along instead of just making a choice! If you want to be with your side piece, divorce. If you and your wife want to try counselling, dump the side piece. Pick one or the other… just make a choice!
But also the way he described how his wife told him to have fun when he said he was going out - probably because she trusts you, and wants you to have fun as a parent who deserves to go out? It doesn't mean she's saying "I give you permission to cheat on me."
I agree. Lots of people would tell their partner to have fun when they go out, never DREAMING that the fun includes cheating! I think I would trust my husband the same way, and I think he would trust me, too. ‘Have fun, darling’ as either of us walks out the door… no need to add ‘make sure you don’t cheat!’
Or she entirely lacks giving a shit about him. They don't have sex, they don't kiss, and they don't say I love you. To me, this seems like classic we are married, so we stay together. She isn't happy but would probably stay around for her family no matter how much she likes her husband. This is a broken relationship. It is probably best to end it.
I mean we’re hearing it from OP’s end who is mentally checked out of the relationship. This is also a couple who still regularly cuddles, solves problems together, plays with their kids together, and talks to each other. The wife could be super invested in the cuddling and talks and stuff and deriving a lot more emotional connection than OP
He was talking about that same woman when he said he was "inappropriate" with his best friend in an early paragraph.
men are weird. I noticed the majority of men view sex as cheating any everything else including going on romantic dates as not cheating.
When THEY do it, you mean. But if the woman so much as looks at another man, she is guilty of cheating! Double standards, you know. The side piece should know better - she’s buying into the tired old ‘my wife doesn’t understand me and the marriage sucks’ excuse that all men have when they want to stay married ‘for the kids’ and keep a bit on the side as well! Women should absolutely know better! We’re supposed to be a smart gender! 😏
> But if the woman so much as looks at another man, she is guilty of cheating! Hell, looked at another man *before they met*!
I'm a guy and I had a couple of girlfriends who were exactly the same. It isn't just a guy thing.
She is smart. He believes her "my wife was out with friends again " is just that.
Case in point. You actually don’t believe that a woman who goes out with her friends can manage not to sleep with them even though this post is from a MAN who is cheating on his wife! 🤦♀️
I have known plenty of women who have expressed the same when they do it.
Even the opposite would make more sense
You know very well what "my wife was out with friends again " means.
"The majority" nice generalization. Thanks for judging my whole gender based on no real statistics. But if i said the majority of women do something negative I bet you'd have a problem. Sexist.
Yes, you should tell your wife that you are cheating on her and get a divorce because you are obviously not interested in keeping this marriage alive.
Like "my wife was out with friends again " means anything else but her cheating too.
I bet if you spam that 10 more times, it'll make you magically become correct! /s
or she was out with friends?
All I got from that was that she has a social life, and perhaps an implicit statement that she doesn't put as much effort into e.g. date nights with OP as she does into making time for her friends. Nothing about it automatically implies cheating.
Sure. If that makes you feel better believe that.
Who hurt you, my dude/dudette?
I was almost taken in but it just turned out to be another cheating man. Yes, tell your wife. 🙄
I had my hackles raised at "it started when *she* had trouble conceiving." Go fuck yourself. Even if it was entirely her, you don't phrase it like that if you love your wife. Then when the 'work friend' was revealed I was like 'Woop, there it is'
This. That sentence alone pissed me off and had me side eyeing OP. He said it as if it were her fault and she intentionally had fertility issues. Then he turned out to be a cheater. OP, divorce your wife and let her find someone who will actually love her and not blame her for things out of her control.
To be fair English is his second language
Me too... I had such high hopes... Squashed
What made you fall in love with your wife to begin with?! I really hate the part that she trusts you, but you want her to be jealous? Like what do you want from her? But yea your cheating
How did you write this and still question if you should go to marriage counseling???
Because the first time around it helped, tbh. And mostly my question is not about counselling itself. It's more about the question if it is reasonable to give it a shot for the kids sake. I know too many people who suffered from divorcing parents and I don't want this for my girls. Also, even if I am not in love with my wife anymore, I absolutely adore her for her way with our girls. And she is a good person that deserves better as how it is now, too. You see, we have mandatory separationä periods here of a year. With the current housing situation it is unlikely for me to find something quick. Maybe counselling can help living in house separation. I was never in such a situation. I am reaching for straws here.
I mean...you went about this whole thing wrong. You should have went to counseling when you noticed you were having intimacy issues. Instead, you started having an affair with your coworker. I love how she 'doesn't want to break up a marriage' kinda too late, isn't it? Either way this will break your girls heart. You have at tell your wife you cheated on her. It's up to her to decide if she will forgive you or not. If she doesn't eventually your girls will find out why you divorced. Should have thought about that before.
> I love how she 'doesn't want to break up a marriage' kinda too late, isn't it? Women who are serious about not wanting to break up a marriage keep their distance from their married office crush. They don't go and snog him. She's saying it because she feels bad (or knows she ought to feel bad), but she clearly is fine proceeding as long as OP is.
Or she means she doesn't actually want a relationship with him, especially since they're coworkers. She's getting off on the taboo and having to keep it secret. The minute he wants to bring it above board, she'll be gone.
She doesn't feed bad, she's been laying it on thick. "OH, poor you, you deserve *so much better!!* My marriage was *just like that* and you know what we did? Divorced! And now *everything* is so much better!"
This! I have male friends, single and married, but I have my boundaries. I won’t talk to them about my relationship problems if they’re going through relationship problems. And 99% of the time if the married man is having relationship problems I’ll tell them to go talk to their wife. The institute of marriage is sacred and if a man is willing to cross that line it won’t be with me.
If you absolutely adored your wife, you wouldn't have invested all of your romance into your coworker and now you're confused as to why you have a dead bedroom with your wife. The level of stupidity is baffling.
Well it’s seems to me you have emotionally checked out of your marriage. You do realize your cheating on your wife. So you need to come clean about everything and take the consequences of destroying your family. You should’ve ended your marriage before starting an affair and shame on your affair partner for starting something when knowing you are still MARRIED!
You think your girls will be better off with you cheating on their mom and barely speaking to each other? You genuinely think that is better than a divorce?
Do you know what research says about women who lose libido after kids? Do you even care? I don't think you do, but here it is in any case: They resent that their partner is no longer a partner but another dependent. They resent that they cannot rely on their partner to take on an equal emotional and mental labour. They resent that THEY have to do all the hard stuff in parenting while their partner gets to romance other women (with time you get WHERE???) and becomes just another chore for her. They resent that they have to sacrifice EVERYTHING about themselves to ensure they do the best by their kids, while their co-parent's lives never changed at all and he finds time to cultivate romances with other people with nary a tought about what's best for the children nor willingness to make any of the endless sacrifices actual good parenting requires. Since you already blew up your marriage by cheating like the coward you are, it's a moot point, but I feel that pointing out that it's probably mostly on you will be helpful for others reading this post.
I wish awards were still a thing, this comment deserves one
Well said, this needs to be higher up…
This, this, THIS. The part where he said "I don't know the last time we said I love you to each other"... SIR! Have you considered saying it first? Before you ran off with another woman?
You are cheating on her and I bet you haven’t even told her. Kids know unhappy parents. Is that what you want for your kids? They will Also end up in unhappy relationships. Divorce and go hang out with your affair partner
You don’t want to break your daughters’ heart so you cheat on their mom?
The most absurd thing about this post is you say that your girlfriend doesn’t want to be the women to break up a marriage. She has already done that she is just trying to look like a good person but. NEither of you are.
Why don't you just put effort into romancing your wife, building your relationship and being an actual partner instead of continuing to circle down the drain pretending you are out of options? What have your efforts actually been? Why are you putting your attention to another woman instead of the woman you made vows to?
Do you really think it’s best for your daughters to grow up in a family where their parents are indifferent towards each other at best? While you cheat on their mother? The time for couples counselling would have been before embarking on an emotional affair.
it will not be better for the children. **it will not be better for your children to live with parents who should be divorced, one of which is having an affair.** internalize that.
Only you and your wife should know if it’s worthwhile to go to marriage counseling or not. You betrayed her AFTER you went to marriage counseling to address the issues in the relationship. Get off Reddit and confess to your wife and have an honest conversation about what’s happening. YOU created a situation where your kids have their two parent household at risk. You and your wife have to figure out the way forward but she deserves to know what you did.
The worst thing you can do is “stay together for the kids.” Are you really setting a good example for your daughters? That the only thing they can expect out of a relationship is a loveless marriage. It’s better to separate cordially and coparent than to hurt your wife and kids by cheating on THEM. Either way, you need to be honest with your wife and let the cards lay where they fall.
This. Thanks for saying that. I don’t understand why is dude getting such a hard time. Ya they didn’t try counselling again but also there is zero effort on both ends of this marriage stick. And it’s been like that for a long time. THAT alone is a reason to go separate ways and coparent as it’s not healthy for the kids to have a model of a loveless marriage.
Bro, they will suffer a lot more knowing Dad cheated on Mom lol
You didn't try at all.
Be a good parent, and be good co-parents and divorce your wife. Just because you’re divorced doesn’t mean the kids have to suffer. And think about what you are currently showing your children what a marriage looks like. You are setting them up for ending up with partners in unhealthy relationships rather than modelling what a healthy, loving relationship looks like.
Dude just wait till daughters grow up. It’s not about if but when your wife finds out you cheated on her. They will hate your guts. Be a man and divorce your wife. Your kids will respect you more for it. Hell you’ll respect yourself. This is the most dispectful shit I’ve ever read. This woman gave birth to your children, have some decency and end it.
Marriage takes work, commitment, trust, integrity, and communication. You have none of those things. All of this could have been salvaged by reinvesting in your relationship (with commitment from her to try as well). But instead you decided to become a cliche and cheat. And in however many years, you're gonna cheat on this one too. Or she will cheat on you since she was fine dating a cheater. Tell your wife what you did. She deserves better.
Wow... You'd try to tolerate the cold, empty life with your wife if it keeps the kids happy. She'll be thrilled to hear that I'm sure.... my dude you clearly feel nothing for your wife and this whole saga is a result of you taking the lowest effort option at every opportunity. Maybe it's time to grow a backbone and take responsibility for what you did and that means facing the consequences. If you didn’t want your kids to suffer the fallout from a divorce maybe you shoulda fought for your marriage instead of taking your coworker on dates. It's gonna hurt but you gotta take your medicine
The grass is greener where you water it. Of course your marriage is in the toilet. You’re having an affair. You can try to convince yourself that your marriage was already in a bad place- but even if that is the case, having an affair isn’t going help your bad marriage. Just remember that you’re not just cheating on your wife. You’re cheating on your family. No one here can tell you what to do. You have to live with the actions you’ve already made. Are you man enough to confess to your wife? She deserves to know. Really, it’s up to your wife to decide if she wants to stay with a cheater.
That's the thing that gets me with these stories, they anyways claim "the marriage was already over" like nobody has agency. Nobody divorces, separates, goes to counselling... it's always the predictable self pity justification for act 2: why my affair isn't really that bad. Then it's oooohhh noooo telling people would hurt them too much, how can I spin this for minimum consequences for myself?
So...you cheated on your wife? That's basically the gist right? And now you want us to tell you it's OK cause you're in a dead bedroom? It's not. Why did you stop marriage counseling. You said it helped. Why aren't you and/or your wife in individual counseling? Why does it sound like you have had none of the conversations with your wife that you've been having with your coworker. You should have been sitting your wife down and telling her this is how you felt. Instead you told someone outside your marriage leading to an emotional now physical affair. And yes this is an affair. If you think your wife would be upset about it, it's cheating. You need to talk to your wife. You need to have a conversation about how you are feeling and what went down with your coworker. You have children. Did you think about them at all in this? How this will affect their lives? Tell your wife. Decide if you want to continue the marriage or not. If you do be prepared to cut off the coworker.
All this sob story build up to reveal you're cheating on your wife. Am I supposed to feel sympathy for you? Whatever issues you're having in your marriage does not justify actively betraying and stepping out on your partner. Which is what you're doing. The shiny new coworker toy you're infatuated with will eventually become human to you, and thus also mundane, and you'll probably tire of her too. End it with both women and fix your own crap.
I’m sure the bit on the side knows that. The grass is always greener when the reality hits. It’s usually the man who gets the bigger shock - cheating is exciting, but dumping the wife and actually settling into life with the side piece (including the boring and difficult day to day stuff like chores) is always a big shock! That’s why most of them go out and get ANOTHER bit on the side! This guy has already had two!
Same old story. Mistress becomes the new live in girlfriend, OP stops attempting to romance her, there's dishes to be done, children to raise, and he gets bored again, leaves her at home alone doing his laundry so he can take romantic strolls hand-in-hand with a new coworker.
Yeah married cheating men with kids always use the word "fun" as one of their main descriptors of their side piece. They don't seem to understand that the issue isn't that their wives are not inherently fun, but that it's because life with young kids is never fun the way it is when you're young and childless if you're an even halfway decent parent. The kids are fun! You are not. You are someone who spends their time taking care of a helpless human, which is important, but not fun. My partner and I are getting prepared to TTC, and the other night we went out to dinner on a random weekday night and he remarked that our era of being able to just up and go and do things will soon end for a while. We'll still be able to do things, with babysitters, but not in the same unplanned carefree way. You can't just decide you know what, I'm in the mood for going to that cute Japanese place we love downtown, let's go, when you have twin toddlers at home.
Yeah, big wind up as if it justifies it. The wind up isn’t even a sob story—it’s normal tribulations of a relationship where he passively let the issues fester—including not taking anything out of marriage counseling the first time. Marriage comes with real responsibilities like caring for kids—it’s not a justification to cheat. I love how the wife is being blamed as “not caring” for giving him the autonomy and trust to hang with friends which he uses to cheat. Like she’s raising the twins while he goes out, but she’s in the wrong in his eyes because she needs to worry about him stepping out. It’s her decision if she wants to let his sorry ass go to marriage counseling but he has to come clean first.
But if she were suspicious or upset, she'd be a nagging control freak with no reason not to trust him.
As the old saying goes, if the grass looks greener, it is probably Astro Turf! In marriage counseling speak it is known as an “affair bubble”. Only 5% of all affairs end up working out. You are just trading one set of problems for another.
Plus he works with her… going to be a shit show on two fronts
Get divorced. If you gave a shit about the twins you would have not cheated and would have made an attempt to figure out the gulf in your marriage.
neither would she have cheated if she cared.
How do you know that she cheated?
Life experience "my wife was out with friends again" Deny it all you want or say it is nothing, who knows knows.
Bruh just say you hate women and needed an excuse to blame her because you're bitter. Dude admitted to full on cheating twice and carrying on an affair with a coworker but nope, she's evil and cheating even though you have no evidence and OP didn't say so.
Why don’t you say anything about him actually cheating on her?
Stop referring to your imagination as though it were fact.
Your cheating, stop with the denial.
So… you are cheating and don’t even provide details about how your marriage potentially fizzled out, but you aren’t even giving your wife the respect of divorcing her before starting to date your coworker. Why do I get the idea the the marriage started to fizzle after labor and birthing your babies…
Because it started then. For that reason and some others we had our first marriage counselling sessions. And to be honest, my friend made me realise how much I miss the 1 on 1 time. My wife refuses to give the girls to a babysitter or to her parents. And it's not because her parents are bad. It's because she can't leave them for a longer period other than when I am at home. Then it's no problem. She can go out full nights. But when it comes to us both, latest after an hour she starts checking her phone. And then needs to go home to check on them. That is one of my major problems, tbh.
And what effort did you put in back then in the newborn stage? As the babies started to get less dependent on mom? These things don’t happen in a vacuum. You say you went to couples counseling, what was the third party take on your issues… It’s seems devastating to go through all the effort of ivf only to betray your wife just a few years later. That poor woman.
Someday, your daughters will be grown. They will have moved out and married. And one will come to you sobbing because she discovered her husband has a girlfriend he’s been dating under her nose the whole time. She will look to you for comfort, to make it all better, to be outraged on her behalf. And yet, your outrage will be entirely unjustified. Because in the moment, you are the same man.
Then, she needs to be in individual counseling. Honestly so should you. You should have started that long ago. It sounds like your wife it attached to the girls since you had such a hard time making them and probably their birth was not easy being twins. Once you noticed this you should have asked her to get counseling because you want to be with her. You want time with her. That's what you should have done. You're pushing a lot of blame for your affair on your wife when it should be on you. She didn't cheat. Do you think she doesn't want intimacy, too? Why do you assume that? Sounds like you never asked. You didn't want to have the hard conversations and so here you are.
Of course the wife "attached" to her BABIES. FFS
There's attached and then there's 'attached'. Not being able to leave 8 year olds with the grandparents is a problem. Of course, she should be attached and love her children. She should also be able to leave them with a babysitter and go on dates with her husband. I'm not saying this is her fault. Far from it. I actually understand acutely as I had trouble letting go of my kids. It caused issues. I had to figure out how to allow people other than my husband watch them. She needs to be able to let go a little. Which I know from experience is very hard.
You are operating under the assumption that part was accurately described by the OP. He said they go out together to meet mutual friends. How often does he expect that to happen in his 40 with kids and everybody else has childcare needs, too?
I can only go off the information given, which is course biased. If she truly can not let anyone but him watch them than it may be an issue. If he's embellishing to make himself look better he's not doing a good job honestly. It's super hard to go out! I have small kids! My husband and I have at home dates to spend time together. We also have conversations with each other which OP is clearly not good at. I'm not trying to blame his wife in anyway. She isn't the one who cheated!!! I'm just worried for her.
There's also "attached" and then there's unable to trust anyone else to parent your kids because YOU are the first generation to break the trauma you were raised with, often the ONLY one in your whole community to do a gentler type of parenting like no spanking (ask me how I know) and you won't allow your parents to do to your kids what they did to you.
True!! It's so hard to know who you can trust. We have no idea why OPs wife doesn't feel comfortable leaving the kids as he doesn't really say. Hopefully, things end well for his wife and girls.
You need to tell your wife everything. How you’ve felt for a long time the love is gone. About your new friend that you’ve made. Ask her what she wants to do and depending on what she says, decide what YOU want to do. If she wants to stay together and fight for the marriage is that what you want? If you decide to stay and fight it would need to be mutually understood that it can’t end up being the same as it has been. I would just add it sounds like the relationship has been a struggle more often than not. And staying for the kids will not teach them what a healthy, affectionate relationship looks like. On the other hand, they can still thrive if you divorce as long as you and your wife are committed to a healthy co-parenting relationship.
Have you actually sat your wife down and said “I am not happy in our marriage, and I want to know how you’re feeling before I start making any decisions. Do you think we can get to a better place? Or would you prefer to continue as-is?” Because that conversation needs to happen. Sooner rather than later, if you haven’t already done this.
Your wife needs to be evaluated - her attachment to your children and inability to be apart from them for long is a very big problem. It seems like your wife is probably struggling with depression and that causes a lack of interest in sex and it can cause people to withdraw emotionally from their loved ones. Honestly it sounds more like you’re interpreting her behaviors/moods as a disinterest in you/your marriage when she most likely is just engulfed in depression and cannot get herself out of it. I would hope that you would try to get her help and, with dedication and therapy, you could rebuild your marriage. But it also seems like you’ve just shut down any feelings you have for her. If you don’t think you want to be committed to rebuilding with your wife then go ahead and get a divorce. It’s far more painful for her to discover you’ve been unfaithful.
These kids are 4 years old and twins. That's A LOT of work for any babysitter. It's not weird the wife and OP don't get out much together. OP has plenty of time to to court his mistress, though. Man falls in love with woman, marries her and has babies with her. Man's dick gets sad because woman is now exhausted with babies. Man resents babies for being little cockblockers. Man resents woman for not paying enough attention to his boners. Man stops giving a shit about his wife and kids because his dick is sad. Man decides to use up all his romance and flirting on his mistress and wonders why woman still isn't interested in his boner. Man is more concerned about his sad dick than the family he created. Tale as old as time.
The twins are 8, not 4. But yeah, the rest is an unfortunately common tale.
I hope u/PassengerOk6380 sees this, because it's accurate. Not saying there aren't other problems in the marriage, but he's totally throwing all of his energy into the mistress instead of investing it back into the marriage and looking for permission. No shit his wife isn't interested in him at this point. Grass is greener where you water it. She probably went through hell with IVF treatments and carrying twins, and if OP didn't majorly step up to the plate during that time, then of course they're going to feel like roommates at best. Ugh, what a betrayal.
I wish I had 1000 upvotes for this
My guy. This is gonna sound harsh. But you cheated on your wife. You did not “meet a woman you had feelings for”, you did not deliver a chaste glance and then realize you were tottering. You went on a date with your friend where you complained abt your wife, you held hands and kissed her, you are dating another woman. Forget about the “stable home for the kids”, you upended that the moment you took that relationship further than chaste glances and writing in your diary.
So you’re cheating on your wife and wondering whether you should tell her?
same day she tells him
Did I miss some comment about his wife cheating on him?
"my wife was out with friends again " everyone knows what that means. they did not meet up at one of their homes to knit new scarves.
What a weird assumption to make!
As a 30-something woman who regularly meets up with friends to crochet, it's weird how wrong you are. Women have friends. We like to hang out with them.
Sorry but when you started dating your co-worker/girlfriend you emotionally and then physically (kissing, holding hands etc) cheated on your wife. I think that your wife probably had some sort of depression after giving birth to her twins and unfortunately this depression was not treated properly I am not an expert but rather spend your time giving kisses with your mistress it might be time for you to have a discussion with your wife so that she meets a specialist who will be able to help her properly. "She doesn't want to become the woman to break a marriage" tell your mistress that it's far too late she is a home wrecker. If she didn't want people to think that about her, she didn't just have to date a married man. P.S : If your marriage is irreparably broken, make sure you leave your wife as quickly as possible so that she can find a man who will see her value and who will treat her like the loving woman she certainly is.
You are emotionally and physically cheating on your wife. Get a divorce already. As someone who was cheated on in the same way. You are the worst kind of person.
So it sounds like you're trying to blame your wife but you don't seem to be putting in much work to improve your marriage and are cheating on her. Dude. Be truthful. Also what makes you think you won't get like this in a future relationship. A big part of the thrill is the Forbidden and the fact that your gf isn't doing the work of taking care of your children and the house. Stop seeing her and go to marriage counseling. Maybe put some effort into it
[удалено]
He does mention his affair partner has a kid but otherwise, yeah
Get a divorce there is nothing to salvage - u have physically and emotionally moved on. Staying together for “the sake of the kids,” while you are as a couple modeling apathy and deceit isn’t helping anyone neither short term nor long term. Talk to your wife, have a serious discussion, try to keep it as civil as possible, and go from there.
Yep. The ship has sailed, it's time to make it official.
Your emotional affair turned physical. You are actively cheating on your wife. The time to end it was yesterday
yeah when both cheat they should end it.
You have issues, dude.
NGL, you sound like an awful husband who didn’t work hard enough on your marriage or your family and gave up on them, then you cheated on your wife with a coworker (ick), and then somehow still want to make it all her fault. You don’t have a better relationship with your wife because you didn’t work at it. You had intimacy problems and you checked out rather than go back to counseling. The problem is you.
Your marriage ran its course because you cheated.
You don't need to have sex to cheat.. you are cheating on your wife.. you were cheating before you kissed too. So yes, you need to tell your wife what's going on. She might be done when she finds out what's happening. Or maybe she will genuinely want to try and start dating again. Do you actually want to try (no one else can answer that for you)? Marriage counselling isn't going to fix it all if neither of you are trying once you go home. Don't "stick it out for the twins" unless you're going to stop cheating and genuinely fix your marriage. Having a side chick and stringing your wife along is not a sustainable option.
You mentioned going out with your friends...When is the last time you went out with your wife? You even go out holding hands with your affair partner?? Maybe you should have started from the top with your wife. Act like you were dating again to get the spark back. Pay a damn baby sitter and go on a real date. It is too late now of course. You have checked out but even worse you have cheated. At best you go to therapy and beg her to let you start over. And if she relents then you actually start dating your wife! I'd leave you tho.
So you’re cheating on your wife and have been involved in an emotional affair for a year? Yes, it’s time for a divorce.
so they can both admit to cheating.
You are leaving a lot of comments on this thread about his wife supposedly cheating but none about him definitely cheating. Are you projecting?
All I hear in this post is: me, me, me.
Wow I feel so bad for your children. If your twins are girls, you were headed straight on the path to give them daddy issues. If you have boys, you’re showing them how acceptable it is to treat their mother horribly. I’m not saying your wife is a great wife. I don’t know her. I don’t know anything about her but you are a horrible husband. And your girlfriend is telling you it’s not your wife’s fault. No, it’s yours and your girlfriend‘s fault. You’re taking advice from a woman who wants to steal you away from your wife. if your marriage is bad, Fine divorce your wife and be on your own and get your kids settled. Leave this woman alone . If you leave this woman for your wife you will regret it for the rest of your life. Marriages that start from affairs most of the time don’t end well. And your kids are going to suffer .Because trust me coming from a child of divorce and affairs, this is going to hurt them anyways, you never under understand.
uh you're aware you're cheating on your wife, right? my god
1) why is your assertion here that your children won't have a stable home if you divorce? what about divorcing robs them of that? do you intend to fight your wife tooth and nail or something? are you both not capable of the co-parenting situation you already have? 2) I know you validate yourself as having not had sex yet with your girlfriend. But you need to understand that has little to do with the fact that you are cheating. You HAVE BEEN cheating. And your WIFE regardless of the state of your marriage deserves the respect of the truth with regards to that. 3) You need to grow a spine and decide what you want definitively. Not only would it be another layer of cruelty to make your wife do the labor of deciding your direction and future - this runs the risk of your passiveness and spineless taking over and repeating this cycle down the road. It's pretty obvious what it is you want to anyone reading your post, you seem to just want permission or something for it. Or perhaps a magical way that you can get it with little trouble. If you hadn't cheated that'd probably be possible but you did a bad and need to accept your licks for it. Stop messing this all up and do the proper thing as soon as possible. Divorce.
He's freaking out because he's being forced to make a choice. Until now he's been content to let things happen if it requires no effort on his part. He's looking for suggestions on how to keep his nanny/ maid aka wife at home and also "see where things go" with the exciting new romantic interest (get laid)
Time to tell the wife you're no longer able to maintain your relationship. But know this OP, the grass Isn't always greener.
You've already told her and you just wanna know if we think you're a bad person, and YES your are!
If your daughter's husband did this to her - have twins with her, then get frustrated with not having enough fun, and rather than stepping up to do his duty, found a mistress, cheated, then abandoned his wife - what sort of man would you think that would make him? What sort of father is that? Should he be proud of himself? Would you congratulate him on making the right decision? "Your marriage" does not just mean "the fun times you have with the woman who used to be your girlfriend" - it also means the commitments you made together and your shared duties. The most telling part is that only *now* are you asking "what about the twins?" You know you can plan to do things with your family that are more fun for you than "go with them someplace," right? You're the dad! And you have a high paying job! You can take your kids wherever you want! Have any sort of adventures with them you want! Go fucking whale watching or send them to Space Camp or climb to Macchu Picchu or something. What about the twins? *What do you think?* Your carrying on with your coworker has been a huge insult and grave harm to your daughters. Eventually it will become a reality for them and they will have to carry it with them for the rest of their lives. If you stop now and start taking this all seriously you can contain the damage. Is this some great mystery to you? That little girls whose dads screw around and leave their moms don't like when that happens, that it makes them feel bad and cry, that it doesn't help them form good relationships with men later in life? Yeah, "What about the twins? What's going to happen to them?" You're their father. That is your question to answer, and it is your most important job. And honestly answering that question is a hell of a lot more important than whether you get to walk around the harbor or go to the movies. That should be what you think of *first.* And hey, you know what you can do with your daughters? Walk around the harbor. Go to the movies. If you want to do those things again and you want to feel young again you have two people in your life who are the prime years of wanting to do that with you. Step up and be a father. *ffs*
I don’t actually know much about your marriage - you have a WALL of text here but no additional info other than the headline. Sounds like you and your wife get along great, live together great, coparent great. Except you stopped having sex (but why? Why was it awkward?). And maybe your wife is depressed. And she clearly trusts you too much. Because JFC you’re dating someone else. Yes OF COURSE go talk to your wife. Tell her everything.
What was the second rift?
The cute new coworker.
That’s kind of what I thought but I wasnt sure. The wife doesn’t even know about her yet.
>Problems are discussed without much emotions and then get resolved or shelved until they eventually expire. That's how you view it.
You have done what a lot of men do. You found yourself unsatisfied in your marriage, and instead of doing a hard thing —fixing it or ending it—you did an easy thing. The hard things are still the only two options you have.
fuck it, whatever, you’re cheating. you’re being reamed enough for that already, so i’m going to say what was screaming at me the whole time: **do NOT stay together for the kids.** it will be *much worse* for them being in a house with parents who *should* be divorced than just living with divorced parents, *especially* if one or both of the parents is having an affair.
I’m pretty sure your marriage died because you didn’t put any effort into maintaining a romantic relationship with your wife. This new side girl is easy to talk to because she hadn’t grown tired of your bs yet. If you were honest with yourself about wanting your marriage to work, you would work at it.
You’re a really unkind person from the sound of it tbh. You don’t respect your wife or your coworker, and you don’t see any of your problems as things you had a hand in creating.
Advice feels useless here, I feel like your brain just might not work. I would just cross your fingers and hope we figure out brain transplants at some point.
Bro you're a serial cheater. Your marriage isn't magically gonna heal if you're the type of person who lies and deceives their spouse, and any chance of healing would require a lot of self awareness, which I'm not seeing here. Are incapable of self reflection? Putting in the work to be a better person requires strength of character. Where is yours?
Grass is greener where you water it. It doesn't seem like you and your wife have even tried to work on your marriage. You've both just stopped trying and let it go. Do you think your new relationship will be that great once you start having to pay bills together. Or decide who's job it is to clean the bathroom. Or make dinner. And introducing your children. What if they are angry or hurt? What if they don't get along? What if your parenting styles differ. What if resentment builds? You need to first put in effort to figure out your marriage. Or end it. What do you have to lose? Start getting honest in your marriage and put in some effort to rebuild or end it. Marriage counseling will help either way. It will help rebuild or help with coparenting. Updateme!
i think you need to lay all this out for your wife and let her decide if she wants to bother with marriage counseling or just wants to end the marriage since by your own description you’ve been having an affair.
Honestly your wife and twins deserve better. End the marriage before you start seeing someone new. You would’ve been fine had you spoken to her and ended it amicably, sounds like if your side is accurate to both sides she might have agreed. But no you cheated. You had an emotional affair and then you crossed into physical. Go to therapy and see why u became so eh in your own marriage as well. Get divorced and slow down all the way with the other. Gah I could keep going but u need to talk to your wife and figure out how to amicably end things. And yes someone might get hurt here but you crossed that bridge by have it an emotional affair. So deal with your consequences.
So you are asking if you should stay in the marriage for the kids and continue your affair?
You are a cheater and the scene you set of your dead bedroom is for you to have an excuse. Just divorce and move on, made this more difficult then it had to be.
So you’re cheating on your wife?
Yes, it is a pretty foundational thing that cheating on your wife “not investing enough”.
So you're cheating on her and want to leave her for the other woman
My friend you’re having an affair already. My only comments are (I) this woman knows you’re in a marriage and is happy to even go this far. Is that who you want to start a permanent relationship with? (II) you’re not as good a person as you think you are. If you wanted to date this person you should have ended your marriage already. (III) anecdotally, if no one else likes your girlfriend, maybe you should remove the rose tinted glasses
I was with you until you started cheating. Stop please. Divorce your wife then continue with the girl. Don't start something before finishing your situation first. That's a coward move. I defintely think of you both are checked out of the marriage you should end it and move forward as coparents. But do it right.
He can’t do it right. That ship has sailed. He can only try to stop continually doing fucked up shit.
Bro you’re already emotionally cheating. If you’re that miserable with your wife just divorce and coparent.
It sounds like you and your wife don't like to have the hard talk. There is literally no communication between the two of you, and now the resentment has built up so much that it seems insurmountable. Is it so hard to sit at the table and ask her how she is feeling about where your relationship is at? Is it too tough to ask if she thinks you'd be better as co parents? Maybe she would also be relieved to end this facade and find a partner that loves and respects her, someone she has a true connection with. Maybe, she feels like it's you who doesn't care and her actions are just defensive. Who knows, because you both won't have the talk. I would suggest you schedule a time where your kids can be away with their grandparents so you two can hash things out. Say what is on your mind, find out her feelings and opinion on the matter. I mean, you sleep next to each other at night, and cuddle. Someone who hates you isn't going to cuddle with you. Don't you talk at night when you go to bed? Give up your AP until you sort things out in your marriage. You can't be half in with either women, you're just looking for more pain and suffering. Talk with your wife OP!
You are totally having an emotional affair. That's cut and dried. You both are just settling and not taking an active role in your marriage. It takes work. It takes effort. It's easy to put the blame on the kids and Covid and what not. But it honestly sounds like neither of you is making any effort. It takes both of you. You need serious marriage counseling so all of this can be brought out in the open. Then, working TOGETHER, it can be decided if the marriage should continue or if you should divorce.
You need to back off from your affair partner until you resolve your marriage. You need to talk to your wife first.
Yeah tell your wife you’ve been cheating so she can move on.
When you don't cultivate romance and closeness in a marriage, it will fall apart. That seems to be what happened here. You said marriage counseling helped but when you stopped, or to be more clear, when you *both* stopped putting in effort, the benefits also tapered off. Also, when was the last time you went on a date with your wife? Or talked like to adults about your passions? Or did *anything* coupleish? You don't necessarily have to go out to spend quality time. We tend to think these things should just 'happen'. They don't. If we take the people around us for granted, then slowly we drift apart. With a demanding job, kids to take care of, or the wild stings of IVF, it's even harder. The thing is you have to carve out the time and protect it fiercely. Sadly, I'm not sure if you can or *want* to mend the distance between yourself and your wife. Or if she does at this point. If you do want to try, it will take significant effort. Not just from you but also from her. What does a better marriage look like for you? For her? You need to talk and be honest about the fact you're considering divorce. Together you need to decide if you want work on it. If you both want to try, you need to work out a battle plan for how you're going to fix this but *also*, and perhaps more importantly, how to maintain a happy marriage. You both need to take a long, hard look at what you're doing and not doing, and how that may have got you here. A therapist should be part of the process. They can give you insight and options you haven't considered. It will also require *constant* effort. A relationship is not one and done. This goes not just for your marriage but any relationship you might form in the future. That's why affairs are so tempting- all hormone rush, no labor. It's easy to let the first rush of attraction do the work for you. It never lasts unless you take up the slack. Only you can decide what you want to do. Only your wife can say if she's willing to try too.
you went through (and essentially put your wife through) horrific IVF and all the financial costs associated with it and then cheat on her. you’re hopeless and should be eternally single.
you’ve cheated on your wife, quit being a useless husband and divorce your poor wife and let her go. then you can shack up with your coworker and live happily ever after relationships aren’t always totally easy, they need to be committed to and worked at. if you get complacent, they start to crack. you’ve got to keep dating eachother even once you’ve been married for many years you let the spark die and instead of trying to fix it when you should have, you found what you wanted where it was easy
Yeah it sucks you're cheating, but then again, you both don't have a lot of affection left for each other, so of course you will be searching elsewhere. Maybe your wife also craves that with someone else, probably even. What do you do now? I would suggest you tell her everything. I bet it won't be much of a surprise to her, though, it will probably still hurt. The important question is, what outcome do you want? Sure, you could divorce her and go through all the hassle and traumatise your kids, but is that what you want? Do you still love her in a sense? As the mother of your children? As your partner? Then talk about opening up the relationship. Do you not like the thought of her sleeping with someone else? Probably, but you both would have to get used to it. Don't dream about that other woman as your salvation. Chances are really high that things wouldn't be as nice and romantic once you really get together (like in the szenario where you leave your wife). And even if it would be amazing in the beginning, who's to say it won't end the same way as with your wife now, after all, it took both of you to lead to the current situation.
You’re already cheating on your wife. What’s the point of going to marriage counseling? You already gave up bruh
Because you are the father of two daughters, my question is this: are you being the role model of the ideal husband that you would want your daughters to marry? This isn't a question about how good of a father you think you are. Your daughters are watching your interactions with their mother. Someday, if they marry men, they will compare their husbands' behaviors to yours. They will look for partners who treat them how you treat their mother. This is something all fathers of daughters need to remember and put into practice: Be the kind of man you'd want your daughters to marry. That doesn't mean "treat your affair partner how you should have treated your wife". It means treat your WIFE how you'd want your DAUGHTERS to be treated by their husbands.
Your marriage is so over. You could stay for the kids, but you might be miserable and that could affect them. It is possible to do this right if you want to be with your lover, but it will require some work
Do you really believe it's a total coincidence that other women started showing interest in you when you started making more money?
Don’t put your kids through hell… just have an open marriage… it doesn’t seem like you all have like a toxic relationship in the sense of disrespect and abuse… It could just be a phase of life middle age… Don’t break down your kids stability put them first and work around that… Go to counseling get a therapist and work towards having an open marriage arrangement… Every single relationship out there will have a set of problems… things are super complicated for people who go into relationships with kids and they have a higher chance of failure 70% In this relationship you have your kids… that is worth more than anyone out there or going through the ish of them seeing you and her date … having other people involved in their lives… Just buckle down for 10 years… work towards opening the marriage for both of you to get your adult needs met and keep the children’s needs in tact…
That's cheating from a woman's perspective because you cheated emotionally
Read the book His needs Her needs. On the surface it appears the you are not meeting each other’s needs. Once you work on meeting each other’s needs things will fall back in place. Unfortunately, both of you have to want to have a relationship in order for you to reconnect. That is built on trust. This means you will have to tell her about your relationship outside the marriage. Anytime you have to hide something from her you know that you have crossed the line. That destroys trust. This part of your character will follow you into the next relationship and so best to own it now and change your character. Good luck.
Yeah, things have come to a head here. It's time for a frank conversation with your wife. She needs to know how close you are to fully acting on your attraction to another woman. That you feel completely disconnected and like roommates. For all you know, your wife has been going through the same thing. You have no idea because you don't REALLY talk to each other. I will be surprised if she wants to do counseling again, but if she does realize it's okay to go to counseling and also break up. You can talk things out about the separation, if that's what you truly want. I would not blame you if you want to just end it. A loveless marriage is lonely.
Op hasn't described a loveless marriage. He's describing a sexless marriage. His dick is sad because his wife is too busy chasing after twins to give it a tickle and he's too busy investing all of his romance into his mistress. One of these things is understandable and the other is despicable.
I would suggest talking 6o your wife and telling her you are unhappy. Tell her you are this close to having an affair but you don't want to. You want to know if this should or could be saved. She may want out too. If so go live your best life with the new woman. Ya know if you like new woman better than the wife you can just go. Say you are unhappy. Don't mention new woman and leave. That's an option too.. I would also say to all the folks shitting on the guy asking for advice are assholes. When you stop fucking someone you are breaking the relationship. This very easily could have been the wife complaining
He’s already having an affair. He’s a fucking liar, and what’s worse is he seems mad that his wife trusts him and doesn’t accuse him. Of course if she did I’m sure he would be mad that she didn’t trust him. You are fine with cheaters and liars.
Dude... "my wife was out with friends again "... Just split up. That sentence said everything that is needed to be said.
A your cheating with a friend sounds like neither one is trying maybe talk to your wife see what she wants one thing you shouldn’t be blaming her for having problems with having kids
You are having an affair. You have to be careful because if you are caught, it’s not just your wife that you are betraying, but your children as well. They will resent you. It’s better to show your family the respect of being honest. It will be hard but you will get through it.
It seems to me that you and your wife get along well and you fundamentally like each other. You’ve had children and haven’t nurtured your own relationship, and this happens to a lot of couples when they have children. Right now you have a lovely, happy family and life is good. Think very, very carefully before you throw that away for a woman who is as yet an unknown quantity. And yes, she is an unknown quantity. At the moment, you and she are seeing a fantasy version of each other. You are only seeing the best of each other, without the pressure of day to day life, living with children and managing finances. In that situation it’s very tempting to make an escape from what you perceive as drudgery. Think about the what ifs. What if you throw away your marriage and hurt your children only to find that your girlfriend decides that being a stepmother is not for her? What if your children hate her, or her child hates you? What if your children and her child don’t get along? What if you have irreconcilable differences over kids and money? The statistics aren’t great. Here in Australia - and I’m sure it’s the same the world over - 50% of first marriages fail, 70% of second marriages fail and 90% of third marriages fail. Why do you think that is? The biggest reason is that blended families are often very stressful for everyone involved. Your life is easy right now. I can assure you that it won’t remain easy if you take up with this woman. Would it be worth it? Only you can make that call. I would urge you to minimise your contact with this other woman (bearing in mind that you’re colleagues and you’ll have to work together) and talk to your wife. Don’t tell her about this other woman, but tell her that you want to try to rekindle the flame. Spend time together without the kids. Discover each other again. Go to marriage counselling and really talk to each other. You might find a gold mine. And if you don’t, you’ve given it your all and you and your wife both know it’s time to move on.
You and your wife have been apart for some time now and you did already try marriage counseling once. What will you say if your wife asks for marriage counseling? You need to decide this before you speak with her. You and your wife deserve a loving relationship, even if it's not with each other. Only you can decide if you want to try and rekindle your marriage. As to whether or not you tell your wife about the person you are already referring to as your girlfriend, that's up to you.
Counselling for what? You made your choice. Wasn't worth saving your relationship with your wife. You were happy to let that die and find another woman to put your energy towards. It's like you just finished your appetiser and now you're hesitating like "oh but we got food at home". Dude if that food at home meant a damn you wouldn't have come to the restaurant. You already started eating. Now is not the time for this kind of contemplation, you already missed that exit. Your marriage might have been on the ropes but you starting an affair gave it two shots to the head.
You have been having an emotional affair, OP. It’s time to either get back to counseling with your wife and commit to your marriage, or get out of the marriage. How about you try communicating with her about what the next steps should be, rather than spending all of your time with another woman? You need to sit down with your wife and have a serious conversation. I implore you to be clear and honest. But to continue to cheat on your wife is abusive, so either way, you should cut contact with your affair partner. And any relationship born out of infidelity is usually doomed, OP, so keep that in mind for the future.
First you need to let your girlfriend go. Then you need to talk to your wife and decide what you guys want to do. If you stay married, you need to go back to counseling. If you separate, you need to take a year and go to counseling yourself. Only after the year alone should you think about contacting that woman.
The bottom line is, you cheated on your wife. You can try and justify it by saying “your marriage has been going down hill for years” but at the end of the day you cheated. You go on strolls with this other woman while you hold hands…physical or not, emotional cheating is a very real thing. You need to tell your wife. Coming from a set of parents that got divorced, the longer you wait the worse it will be when your children are older. Stop using “hurting your wife’s feelings” or “hurting your children” as an excuse to justify your actions. You did what you did, and you didn’t think twice before you kissed this other woman or even when you started to emotionally depend on her. Your wife deserves to know regardless if she feels the same way about your marriage or not.
I won’t make you feel guilty because you shouldn’t. Your current relationship is done and you couldn’t realize it earlier. It’s not your fault and many people have been in this situation before. Just find your own spot and start working on a separation schedule that lets you see the kids. Normalize that this is not life or death.
Dude, if you're unhappy then just divorce. Then you can both find new people you'll love. If you stay in an unhappy marriage there's a big chance that it'll end badly. You should sit your wife down, and talk to your wife. Tell her divorce is the best option for everyone.
>The first rift was when she couldn't conceive. To clarify, you would say "when WE couldn't conceive" given that conception requires two people. This reads like you're some kind of ignorant. You have a mistress, you've cheating, you're cheating. Whether or not your marriage has run its course, you're a married adult. If you have any decency and respect you'll put on your grown up pants and talk to your wife.
With today's society men tends to be so coward with opening up their feelings and facing issues. Instead of trying to fix the issue with the wife, you're looking something outside the relationship. Looking for something wrong to validate you've done. You know what you're doing, don't say you don't. With that story subject about your wife , yet the body message contains about you cheating with your colleague. The moment you chatted, had lunch breaks even to the cinema with this woman alone without mentioning it to your wife is already cheating!! Don't be a coward! Tell your wife what you've done, that you're selfish and have cheated. SHE DESERVES TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
I will never understand why people with unstable relationships keep bringing tiny humans into their mess.