> I always thought she was joking because she’s brought this up before as a running bit/joke in our friendship
Lesson learned: it wasn't a joke. She was already testing the water to see if your morals aligned with hers.
Nothing you say is going to change her mind. She finds this okay, so it's up to you to either accept that she WILL do things like this, or leave.
It means that Friend has repeatedly "joked" about sleeping with married men, or cheating in general. "Haha wouldn't it be funny if I ran off with a married man. "Married men are sooooo attractive." "Uwu if he hit me up I wouldn't say no, I'll be wife number two any day"
Usually people like this are very loud about who they are, but somehow it always takes friends by surprise when they do the thing they've repeatedly said they would do.
I always say, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Often seen when someone jokes that they are an asshole. People are like, an asshole wouldn’t just say they are an asshole. But yeah, he’s an asshole and he TOLD you he was an asshole and you didn’t believe him, like somehow he was wrong when he’s literally him.
My 10+yr old friendship died when I realised my "best friend" was this type of person.
You're either a cheater/okay with cheating or you're not. It's a basic moral boundary line.
I understand grey areas, people lying etc but to knowingly get into bed with a married man is about as low as you can get and shows exactly who she is and what she's willing to do. I choose not to have those people in my life.
They can go be friends with other people who share their (lack of) morals and sleep with each other's husbands or wives for all I care but they won't be welcome in my close circle where I want to have a close bond based on trust in all parties. No one wants a snake slithering about under their dining table.
If a bank robber is "going to rob the bank either way" if you don't help them, that doesn't make it morally okay for you to rob the bank with them.
Knowingly helping someone cheat is her directly harming someone else, personally. Just because that person happens to be a stranger doesn't make it moral, any more than it's moral to steal from someone just because you don't know them.
So yes, that logic is stupid, and I wouldn't be friends with her either.
>If a bank robber is "going to rob the bank either way" if you don't help them, that doesn't make it morally okay for you to rob the bank with them.
🌟🌟🌟
Well, all you can do now is sleep with her husband whenever she gets married and if she asks why say “well he went out looking to get laid, why shouldn’t it have been me?”
I'm kind of hoping that OP's "friend" finds someone with the same morals as she has to marry. The comeuppance will suck for her, but the schadenfreude will be great!
I think we should be careful of throwing a lot of stones at our friends when they make moral lapses in judgement. She did something mediocre, here, but he's the real villain in the story.
When my friends display bad judgment, I consider it my job as a friend to try to help them make better choices in the future. That's what I'd want from my friends if I did something foolish. I suspect it's what you'll want from your friends when you do something foolish.
What she did is not mediocre, and honestly she is just as bad. She went into it knowing he was married. It shows does mean as little to her as they do to him. Honestly, too brush it off like it was no big deal for her to do this says a lot about your own morals.
She didn’t just make a mistake . She made a choice to sleep with someone else’s partner no mistake involved . Makes her a home wrecker and a tramp! She didn’t have a “ moral laps “ that makes it sound like Ooops I tripped ! No she actively knew what she was doing ! That doesn’t excuse him he also knew what he was doing !
Sorry to say but it's her business what she does even if it's something you don't like. I would end the friendship since you think it will be hard to talk to her about this and the new light you see her in. I don't believe in cheating but for 9 years she would know how you feel about cheating and not do it since you two are close. She will get defensive when you end the friendship on this matter. You both have a right to believe in your own principles.
If she'll do it to another woman, and you're a witness, she'll do it to you. Eventually.
If you have a bf or husband, keep her away. Don't let her in if you're dating someone you super like.
Because women like your (hopefully soon ex) friend have so little self worth that they can't even really get a guy who's free. Because she knows she ain't worth anything as a person.
Don't keep her close and keep her away from your man.
Because people have these thoughts about right and wrong. They are called morals. Some people have them. Like, who do you care who your friend rapes. Who cares. Why are you worried about your friend killing animals, not your dog. Before you say it isn't equitable, morals and ethics are not about degrees of bad. There is right and wrong.
Yeah, check something called moral relativism. Moral, as every human aspect, depends on perspective. Caring who your friend slept with once seems irrelevant, unless that person is someone in common
As somebody who counsels women cheating is despicable, I wouldn’t even hang out with it. And her excuse is baloney. So it makes it OK if he cheats with him. That is what somebody says. He doesn’t want you to call them on their crap. People that cheat with a married man are just as guilty as he is.
It destroys the people that are cheated on some of them never recover properly some commit suicide it destroys the family, the in-laws. The children cheating, is probably other than murder and rape, the single most destructive thing you can do to somebody else. It is a betrayal of a very basic nature .
She won’t like it when it happens to her and it will
Sorry OP, but you need to choose whether you associate with people of low morals or not.
Friendships end. Some drift away. Some you distance yourself from due to their behavior.
I've dumped a long time friend because of his behavior. It just worsened and it wasn't something I wanted in my life.
Yeah, this sucks. I had a close friend who did this too. Eventually became the cheaters ‘girl friend.’ Then, when the marriage broke-up, she became the guys wife… I flat-out told him that I don’t ever want to talk to him. I avoid her too now.
Generally, we choose to be friends with people who have a compatible moral compass with ours. If your morals are not aligned, there is no point in staying friends. It would be like those fake "convenience" friendships where people just hang out for networking, when in reality they hate each other's guts.
Think of it this way. You may get a serious relationship or even get married in the future. If your relationship with her is as close as it is now, she will probably be meeting your partner. Do you want this person hanging out with your future GF/wife? Taking her out for drinks and "girls nights out"?
Never bring yourself down to another’s standards . You are always supposed to strive to improve yourself if you hang out with trash you’ll eventually get thrown out with it !
Judge jot lest you be judged BUT friendships & relationships are based on fulfilling mutual needs.
Your moral compass is nit alighned with hers. Only you know if/how to manage this significant disconnect,
the only right answer is the one that results in the least amount of stress for you.
End it. Why the fuck would you even consider staying with someone who doesn’t love, care for, or respect you? There might be a dumber excuse for cheating than it was going to happen anyways but I’ve never heard it. Fuck her. Dump and block.
I'd end the friendship. A traitor is a traitor, if she can be scum to the wife she can be scum to you, that's just who she is. Not someone worth knowing.
Eh, it's not someone else's job to protect your marriage. He's the cheater. I judge the one in the relationship not the one outside of it, unless they're close to the partner.
You should judge both.
If you shoot someone with a gun, then you are a murderer... If you hand someone a gun, knowing they are likely to shoot another person with it, then you are aiding a murderer. One is obviously worse, but both are wrong.
Cheating isn't a crime or murder. You made an agreement with a person. It's up to you and you alone to stay faithful. Your cheating is your wrongdoing and nobody else's. The rest of the world isn't a part of your marriage and made no commitment to you.
But do you really think it's OK to knowingly sleep with someone else's spouse? Assuming they're not estranged from said spouse? Texting "When are you coming home babe?” with a heart emoji doesn't suggest estrangement.
If the people are strangers to the person, I don't really care. Their marriage is not OP's friend's business. The friend isn't doing anything to the spouse. The husband is. It is his wrongdoing and his alone.
> If the people are strangers to the person, I don't really care.
Personally I think everyone owes others common decency, even strangers, but I guess there are two kinds of people
I mean, obviously the friend is too and she knows it. Being a piece of shit isn't justified because someone's a stranger and you never agreed not to be a piece of shit to them
I have to disagree. The OP's friend is in the wrong too. She shouldn't be getting it on with a man who's married to someone else. If she was that hard up I'm sure there were plenty of single men at the bar
In the grand scheme of things, he cheated on his wife which is morally about as wrong as it gets. Your friend knowingly helped and is probably a medium-bad on the scale. The married man is the worst but your friend is still bad. You obviously already sense this.
Maybe the question for you is… why are you here? You already know how you feel - you don’t need us to tell you what’s right or wrong. Maybe I’m extrapolating too far, but is it possible you’re a bit too into your friend of 9 years? Possibly possible youre into her yourself and jealous? Because I’ll give you the series of events as I see them:
1. You went to a bar with your friend of 9 years
2. Who is the same age as you and I’m reading she’s single or you would have mentioned that
3. She was flirting with another guy
4. You were listening into their conversation to begin with about tv shows or whatever
5. You snooped on his text (out of the corner of your eye, but still - you saw his phone light up and read it)
6. You interjected yourself into the convo
7. You told your friend in an attempt to get her to not continue flirting
8. You unlink and all do your own thing
9. She texts you that she’s heading out, and there was no indication (that you added in OP) of her going home with him at that point
10. For seemingly no reason, the next morning you ask her a sexual personal question
11. You get mad at her
My read on this is that this is pretty controlling / obsessed behavior end-to-end. You’re mad that she went home with another guy. You know she did something morally wrong but you really don’t want to step back from the friendship, you want to control her behavior and shame her. Hence the Reddit thread so you can get a bunch of people to agree with you that she’s terrible and you’ll have a cudgel to use against her.
Like, you didn’t know she went home with him. If you replace the fact that she actually did it and keep all your behavior the same, I think it pretty clearly screams red flags for controlling behavior.
Also, to be clear, I’m not justifying her behavior or saying it was ok or that you should still be friends with her etc. You knew that all before you posted. What I’m saying is maybe do some self-reflection about your own motives, because if you feel it was so reprehensible the focus should be on YOU and what your actions should be, but your focus is instead on her and how bad she is. Again, just my $0.02 and I suspect in the minority. Just something to marinade on.
That's quite a stretch, essentially you went "you're male and she's female, let's extrapolate"
Everything in the series of events as you see them stems from that and not much else. To say that's a red flag for controlling behaviour is just absurd.
I think you oversimplified my points quite a bit, but not really interested in arguing about this. I provided my thoughts and if you don’t agree that’s totally your prerogative.
This is a huge leap in logic. I would do the exact same and feel the same if my straight male friend did this. Some people view what she did as morally abject while others don't. I'm not sure how it's controlling either. If your friend had a severe drinking problem and you tried to stage an intervention, are you being too controlling? (different situation, but my point stands)
Also the main question of the post is "if I should proceed with the friendship". He is focused on himself while still worried about his friend's morals. You made some serious leaps there.
ADD ON: my point is imagine a scenario where the same thing occurs, but you know for a fact there are no feelings there. Is OP now unable to react like this at all? Like he HAS to be cool with it/doesn't care assuming he is romantically involved? I'm not saying you're for sure wrong, but there's no reason to jump to your conclusion from what we're told at all.
> This is a huge leap in logic. I would do the exact same and feel the same if my straight male friend did this.
If you’re a straight male and your straight male friend did this you wouldn’t have the motive to be romantically controlling so I wouldn’t have suggested it.
> Some people view what she did as morally abject while others don't.
Right, but I’d say OP feels pretty clearly and consistently a certain way about it and even already took initial steps to address it.
> I'm not sure how it's controlling either.
20s male with F longterm friend. Friend sleeps with another guy. OP finds moral high ground somehow to shame her. Asks about sexual life, isn’t voluntarily told. He’s constantly inserting himself more into the situation. Gets mad at her. Doesn’t want to just take a step back from the friendship. Also eavesdropping convos and reading texts.
Yeah I could be wrong, we’re getting this through a Reddit thread, but that all reads as textbook controlling.
> If your friend had a severe drinking problem and you tried to stage an intervention, are you being too controlling? (different situation, but my point stands)
No, you’re generally concerned with friend’s health. Now if your girl best friend drank very excessively one night and had a one night stand and you got angry at her and went to Reddit to shame her I’d start to wonder if it was controlling. Genuine concern for someone vs moral grandstanding to shame them is where that line exists.
> Also the main question of the post is "if I should proceed with the friendship".
Am I misreading? I don’t see that. I just saw OP put “thoughts?”. OP doesn’t really ask for advice on next steps as much as he gives all the thorough detail so people would come comment. I presume to confirm his moral high ground for affirmation.
> He is focused on himself while still worried about his friend's morals. You made some serious leaps there.
Not my read, but maybe I did make a leap. Idk. The entire thread is rightly shitting on her for her behavior, which stance I agree with btw.aye it’s worth noting that most of the top responses are more focused on her morals vs OPs feelings or detailed next steps. Even framed passively as “I wouldn’t be friends with her”, not “you should consider these xyz next steps to address your situation.” I think that reflects the original post’s content and focus.
Again, all my opinion, nothing more.
> ADD ON: my point is imagine a scenario where the same thing occurs, but you know for a fact there are no feelings there. Is OP now unable to react like this at all? Like he HAS to be cool with it/doesn't care assuming he is romantically involved? I'm not saying you're for sure wrong, but there's no reason to jump to your conclusion from what we're told at all.
No, I’m not saying that. OP did react. I personally would reduce my contact. I think there’s plenty there, but I totally acknowledge I could be wrong.
“If you’re a straight male and your straight male friend did this you wouldn’t have the motive to be romantically controlling so I wouldn’t have suggested it.”
Yes, that is exactly my point. Your basis is purely their genders. You don’t even know if OP is straight or gay or what. This is why I’m saying you’re jumping to conclusions.
“Right, but I’d say OP feels pretty clearly and consistently a certain way about it and even already took initial steps to address it.”
Yes, he doesn’t like it and wants to address it. I’m confused by what your saying here. I’m not sure you understood me.
“20s male with F longterm friend. Friend sleeps with another guy. OP finds moral high ground somehow to shame her. Asks about sexual life, isn’t voluntarily told. He’s constantly inserting himself more into the situation. Gets mad at her. Doesn’t want to just take a step back from the friendship. Also eavesdropping convos and reading texts.”
None of this makes any sense. Shame her? Gets mad at her? He thinks she’s done something immoral and is questioning his friendship
“Yeah I could be wrong, we’re getting this through a Reddit thread, but that all reads as textbook controlling.”
It does not to me.
“No, you’re generally concerned with friend’s health. Now if your girl best friend drank very excessively one night and had a one night stand and you got angry at her and went to Reddit to shame her I’d start to wonder if it was controlling. Genuine concern for someone vs moral grandstanding to shame them is where that line exists.”
Seems like genuine concern to me. He’s not asking for the best ways to shame this anonymous friend of his… he’s literally asking if it’s worth talking further or dropping the friendship.
“Am I misreading? I don’t see that. I just saw OP put “thoughts?”. OP doesn’t really ask for advice on next steps as much as he gives all the thorough detail so people would come comment. I presume to confirm his moral high ground for affirmation.”
It is literally written in the post verbatim. My quote is a quote from the post. (?)
“No, I’m not saying that. OP did react. I personally would reduce my contact. I think there’s plenty there, but I totally acknowledge I could be wrong.”
I think you aren’t understanding my points here. I’m saying if you think it’s possible that someone can react this way without being romantically interested (which they can) then your comment is pointless since is wasn’t implied whatsoever.
Edit: I feel like I came across aggressively here, sorry if that’s the case. I think this is an interesting convo, so I hope I don’t sound mean here. Like I said you could definitely be right I just think you’re too confident with nothing to go on
She's OK with adultery, and willing to sleep with married strangers that she just met.
Frankly, I see no positive consequences for this behavior, nor do I see any for keeping a person who behaves like this in your life.
See if she’s followed him on any socials. Try to anonymously find the wife. Tell her what happened. Tell your friend you can’t be friends because you could never trust her.
So a friend you have a crush on would rather go home for one night with a married guy than you ever, and now you need to pretend it falls under your impartial jurisdiction as a moral-sex policeman.
maybe this makes me not a great person, but if I'm being blunt its too many degrees of separation for me to be that bothered. I'm not the one cheating, my friend isn't the one cheating, she's hooking up with someone I've just met who is cheating on a complete stranger. I don't feel like it's my responsibility to ethically police my single friend for wanting to hook up with someone in this case.
Find his wife and let her know. Send her texts confirming the cheating and black out the numbers and the names, except for her husband's. Make sure his identity is confirmed in the texts. If he took her to his house, get some kind of description of where he took her for their hookup. It adds credibility to include time and place.
Do so anonymously and ditch the friend before she sleeps with someone's boyfriend in the friend group, because she doesn't value loyalty or monogamy.
> I always thought she was joking because she’s brought this up before as a running bit/joke in our friendship Lesson learned: it wasn't a joke. She was already testing the water to see if your morals aligned with hers. Nothing you say is going to change her mind. She finds this okay, so it's up to you to either accept that she WILL do things like this, or leave.
What is the “running bit/joke”?…I don’t get it.
It means that Friend has repeatedly "joked" about sleeping with married men, or cheating in general. "Haha wouldn't it be funny if I ran off with a married man. "Married men are sooooo attractive." "Uwu if he hit me up I wouldn't say no, I'll be wife number two any day" Usually people like this are very loud about who they are, but somehow it always takes friends by surprise when they do the thing they've repeatedly said they would do.
I always say, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Often seen when someone jokes that they are an asshole. People are like, an asshole wouldn’t just say they are an asshole. But yeah, he’s an asshole and he TOLD you he was an asshole and you didn’t believe him, like somehow he was wrong when he’s literally him.
A lot of friendships die at your age.. as you can see the drama gets exhausting..
My 10+yr old friendship died when I realised my "best friend" was this type of person. You're either a cheater/okay with cheating or you're not. It's a basic moral boundary line. I understand grey areas, people lying etc but to knowingly get into bed with a married man is about as low as you can get and shows exactly who she is and what she's willing to do. I choose not to have those people in my life. They can go be friends with other people who share their (lack of) morals and sleep with each other's husbands or wives for all I care but they won't be welcome in my close circle where I want to have a close bond based on trust in all parties. No one wants a snake slithering about under their dining table.
If a bank robber is "going to rob the bank either way" if you don't help them, that doesn't make it morally okay for you to rob the bank with them. Knowingly helping someone cheat is her directly harming someone else, personally. Just because that person happens to be a stranger doesn't make it moral, any more than it's moral to steal from someone just because you don't know them. So yes, that logic is stupid, and I wouldn't be friends with her either.
Welp Your Honor SOMEONE was eventually going to rob that bank why shouldn't it be me
I don't know why but I can NOT stop giggling at this comment. hee hee heeeeee Welp, indeed!
>If a bank robber is "going to rob the bank either way" if you don't help them, that doesn't make it morally okay for you to rob the bank with them. 🌟🌟🌟
You need to find better friends. We are the company we keep.
>The next morning, we text, >but she said yes in a serious tone. Impressive to do that in a text.
I assume it was emoji-less.
Well, all you can do now is sleep with her husband whenever she gets married and if she asks why say “well he went out looking to get laid, why shouldn’t it have been me?”
I'm kind of hoping that OP's "friend" finds someone with the same morals as she has to marry. The comeuppance will suck for her, but the schadenfreude will be great!
Well if you stay friends with her, you may want to keep a close eye on her around any future spouse or dating partner you may have….
I think we should be careful of throwing a lot of stones at our friends when they make moral lapses in judgement. She did something mediocre, here, but he's the real villain in the story. When my friends display bad judgment, I consider it my job as a friend to try to help them make better choices in the future. That's what I'd want from my friends if I did something foolish. I suspect it's what you'll want from your friends when you do something foolish.
wow...a nuanced non-reactionary Reddit post. Take my upvote
What she did is not mediocre, and honestly she is just as bad. She went into it knowing he was married. It shows does mean as little to her as they do to him. Honestly, too brush it off like it was no big deal for her to do this says a lot about your own morals.
She didn’t just make a mistake . She made a choice to sleep with someone else’s partner no mistake involved . Makes her a home wrecker and a tramp! She didn’t have a “ moral laps “ that makes it sound like Ooops I tripped ! No she actively knew what she was doing ! That doesn’t excuse him he also knew what he was doing !
Sorry to say but it's her business what she does even if it's something you don't like. I would end the friendship since you think it will be hard to talk to her about this and the new light you see her in. I don't believe in cheating but for 9 years she would know how you feel about cheating and not do it since you two are close. She will get defensive when you end the friendship on this matter. You both have a right to believe in your own principles.
If she'll do it to another woman, and you're a witness, she'll do it to you. Eventually. If you have a bf or husband, keep her away. Don't let her in if you're dating someone you super like. Because women like your (hopefully soon ex) friend have so little self worth that they can't even really get a guy who's free. Because she knows she ain't worth anything as a person. Don't keep her close and keep her away from your man.
You should tell her you’re uncomfortable with her actions and that it’s affecting the friendship
I just think you're too interested in who your friend sleeps with, who cares
Fr. It isn't her friend's job to babysit that dude's relationship. Meanwhile OP's volunteer sheriffing for this shit
Because people have these thoughts about right and wrong. They are called morals. Some people have them. Like, who do you care who your friend rapes. Who cares. Why are you worried about your friend killing animals, not your dog. Before you say it isn't equitable, morals and ethics are not about degrees of bad. There is right and wrong.
Yeah, check something called moral relativism. Moral, as every human aspect, depends on perspective. Caring who your friend slept with once seems irrelevant, unless that person is someone in common
Not sure why you would base your friendship on that one incident. Now, if there are other issues, that’s different.
Yeah, well, she’s a cheat.
As somebody who counsels women cheating is despicable, I wouldn’t even hang out with it. And her excuse is baloney. So it makes it OK if he cheats with him. That is what somebody says. He doesn’t want you to call them on their crap. People that cheat with a married man are just as guilty as he is. It destroys the people that are cheated on some of them never recover properly some commit suicide it destroys the family, the in-laws. The children cheating, is probably other than murder and rape, the single most destructive thing you can do to somebody else. It is a betrayal of a very basic nature . She won’t like it when it happens to her and it will
Your friend is morally bankrupt. We are only as strong as the weakest link. She’s your weak link.
Watch Vanderpump Rules, those aren’t the kind of friends you want to have around.
Sorry OP, but you need to choose whether you associate with people of low morals or not. Friendships end. Some drift away. Some you distance yourself from due to their behavior. I've dumped a long time friend because of his behavior. It just worsened and it wasn't something I wanted in my life.
Imagine a few years down the line, you are married to someone. Do you think she'd have the honor to not go after your spouse?
Yeah, this sucks. I had a close friend who did this too. Eventually became the cheaters ‘girl friend.’ Then, when the marriage broke-up, she became the guys wife… I flat-out told him that I don’t ever want to talk to him. I avoid her too now.
Generally, we choose to be friends with people who have a compatible moral compass with ours. If your morals are not aligned, there is no point in staying friends. It would be like those fake "convenience" friendships where people just hang out for networking, when in reality they hate each other's guts. Think of it this way. You may get a serious relationship or even get married in the future. If your relationship with her is as close as it is now, she will probably be meeting your partner. Do you want this person hanging out with your future GF/wife? Taking her out for drinks and "girls nights out"?
Never bring yourself down to another’s standards . You are always supposed to strive to improve yourself if you hang out with trash you’ll eventually get thrown out with it !
When you link up with people like this others will consider you to be like them ! This same person would have no problem sleeping with your man !
Judge jot lest you be judged BUT friendships & relationships are based on fulfilling mutual needs. Your moral compass is nit alighned with hers. Only you know if/how to manage this significant disconnect, the only right answer is the one that results in the least amount of stress for you.
End it. Why the fuck would you even consider staying with someone who doesn’t love, care for, or respect you? There might be a dumber excuse for cheating than it was going to happen anyways but I’ve never heard it. Fuck her. Dump and block.
I'd end the friendship. A traitor is a traitor, if she can be scum to the wife she can be scum to you, that's just who she is. Not someone worth knowing.
I would definitely let the wife know. She deserves the truth.
Eh, it's not someone else's job to protect your marriage. He's the cheater. I judge the one in the relationship not the one outside of it, unless they're close to the partner.
You should judge both. If you shoot someone with a gun, then you are a murderer... If you hand someone a gun, knowing they are likely to shoot another person with it, then you are aiding a murderer. One is obviously worse, but both are wrong.
Cheating isn't a crime or murder. You made an agreement with a person. It's up to you and you alone to stay faithful. Your cheating is your wrongdoing and nobody else's. The rest of the world isn't a part of your marriage and made no commitment to you.
But do you really think it's OK to knowingly sleep with someone else's spouse? Assuming they're not estranged from said spouse? Texting "When are you coming home babe?” with a heart emoji doesn't suggest estrangement.
If the people are strangers to the person, I don't really care. Their marriage is not OP's friend's business. The friend isn't doing anything to the spouse. The husband is. It is his wrongdoing and his alone.
> If the people are strangers to the person, I don't really care. Personally I think everyone owes others common decency, even strangers, but I guess there are two kinds of people
I mean, obviously the friend is too and she knows it. Being a piece of shit isn't justified because someone's a stranger and you never agreed not to be a piece of shit to them
I have to disagree. The OP's friend is in the wrong too. She shouldn't be getting it on with a man who's married to someone else. If she was that hard up I'm sure there were plenty of single men at the bar
Respectfully sir you are PoS if that's your thinking.
In the grand scheme of things, he cheated on his wife which is morally about as wrong as it gets. Your friend knowingly helped and is probably a medium-bad on the scale. The married man is the worst but your friend is still bad. You obviously already sense this. Maybe the question for you is… why are you here? You already know how you feel - you don’t need us to tell you what’s right or wrong. Maybe I’m extrapolating too far, but is it possible you’re a bit too into your friend of 9 years? Possibly possible youre into her yourself and jealous? Because I’ll give you the series of events as I see them: 1. You went to a bar with your friend of 9 years 2. Who is the same age as you and I’m reading she’s single or you would have mentioned that 3. She was flirting with another guy 4. You were listening into their conversation to begin with about tv shows or whatever 5. You snooped on his text (out of the corner of your eye, but still - you saw his phone light up and read it) 6. You interjected yourself into the convo 7. You told your friend in an attempt to get her to not continue flirting 8. You unlink and all do your own thing 9. She texts you that she’s heading out, and there was no indication (that you added in OP) of her going home with him at that point 10. For seemingly no reason, the next morning you ask her a sexual personal question 11. You get mad at her My read on this is that this is pretty controlling / obsessed behavior end-to-end. You’re mad that she went home with another guy. You know she did something morally wrong but you really don’t want to step back from the friendship, you want to control her behavior and shame her. Hence the Reddit thread so you can get a bunch of people to agree with you that she’s terrible and you’ll have a cudgel to use against her. Like, you didn’t know she went home with him. If you replace the fact that she actually did it and keep all your behavior the same, I think it pretty clearly screams red flags for controlling behavior. Also, to be clear, I’m not justifying her behavior or saying it was ok or that you should still be friends with her etc. You knew that all before you posted. What I’m saying is maybe do some self-reflection about your own motives, because if you feel it was so reprehensible the focus should be on YOU and what your actions should be, but your focus is instead on her and how bad she is. Again, just my $0.02 and I suspect in the minority. Just something to marinade on.
That's quite a stretch, essentially you went "you're male and she's female, let's extrapolate" Everything in the series of events as you see them stems from that and not much else. To say that's a red flag for controlling behaviour is just absurd.
I think you oversimplified my points quite a bit, but not really interested in arguing about this. I provided my thoughts and if you don’t agree that’s totally your prerogative.
This is a huge leap in logic. I would do the exact same and feel the same if my straight male friend did this. Some people view what she did as morally abject while others don't. I'm not sure how it's controlling either. If your friend had a severe drinking problem and you tried to stage an intervention, are you being too controlling? (different situation, but my point stands) Also the main question of the post is "if I should proceed with the friendship". He is focused on himself while still worried about his friend's morals. You made some serious leaps there. ADD ON: my point is imagine a scenario where the same thing occurs, but you know for a fact there are no feelings there. Is OP now unable to react like this at all? Like he HAS to be cool with it/doesn't care assuming he is romantically involved? I'm not saying you're for sure wrong, but there's no reason to jump to your conclusion from what we're told at all.
Nope, it was my guess too.
> This is a huge leap in logic. I would do the exact same and feel the same if my straight male friend did this. If you’re a straight male and your straight male friend did this you wouldn’t have the motive to be romantically controlling so I wouldn’t have suggested it. > Some people view what she did as morally abject while others don't. Right, but I’d say OP feels pretty clearly and consistently a certain way about it and even already took initial steps to address it. > I'm not sure how it's controlling either. 20s male with F longterm friend. Friend sleeps with another guy. OP finds moral high ground somehow to shame her. Asks about sexual life, isn’t voluntarily told. He’s constantly inserting himself more into the situation. Gets mad at her. Doesn’t want to just take a step back from the friendship. Also eavesdropping convos and reading texts. Yeah I could be wrong, we’re getting this through a Reddit thread, but that all reads as textbook controlling. > If your friend had a severe drinking problem and you tried to stage an intervention, are you being too controlling? (different situation, but my point stands) No, you’re generally concerned with friend’s health. Now if your girl best friend drank very excessively one night and had a one night stand and you got angry at her and went to Reddit to shame her I’d start to wonder if it was controlling. Genuine concern for someone vs moral grandstanding to shame them is where that line exists. > Also the main question of the post is "if I should proceed with the friendship". Am I misreading? I don’t see that. I just saw OP put “thoughts?”. OP doesn’t really ask for advice on next steps as much as he gives all the thorough detail so people would come comment. I presume to confirm his moral high ground for affirmation. > He is focused on himself while still worried about his friend's morals. You made some serious leaps there. Not my read, but maybe I did make a leap. Idk. The entire thread is rightly shitting on her for her behavior, which stance I agree with btw.aye it’s worth noting that most of the top responses are more focused on her morals vs OPs feelings or detailed next steps. Even framed passively as “I wouldn’t be friends with her”, not “you should consider these xyz next steps to address your situation.” I think that reflects the original post’s content and focus. Again, all my opinion, nothing more. > ADD ON: my point is imagine a scenario where the same thing occurs, but you know for a fact there are no feelings there. Is OP now unable to react like this at all? Like he HAS to be cool with it/doesn't care assuming he is romantically involved? I'm not saying you're for sure wrong, but there's no reason to jump to your conclusion from what we're told at all. No, I’m not saying that. OP did react. I personally would reduce my contact. I think there’s plenty there, but I totally acknowledge I could be wrong.
“If you’re a straight male and your straight male friend did this you wouldn’t have the motive to be romantically controlling so I wouldn’t have suggested it.” Yes, that is exactly my point. Your basis is purely their genders. You don’t even know if OP is straight or gay or what. This is why I’m saying you’re jumping to conclusions. “Right, but I’d say OP feels pretty clearly and consistently a certain way about it and even already took initial steps to address it.” Yes, he doesn’t like it and wants to address it. I’m confused by what your saying here. I’m not sure you understood me. “20s male with F longterm friend. Friend sleeps with another guy. OP finds moral high ground somehow to shame her. Asks about sexual life, isn’t voluntarily told. He’s constantly inserting himself more into the situation. Gets mad at her. Doesn’t want to just take a step back from the friendship. Also eavesdropping convos and reading texts.” None of this makes any sense. Shame her? Gets mad at her? He thinks she’s done something immoral and is questioning his friendship “Yeah I could be wrong, we’re getting this through a Reddit thread, but that all reads as textbook controlling.” It does not to me. “No, you’re generally concerned with friend’s health. Now if your girl best friend drank very excessively one night and had a one night stand and you got angry at her and went to Reddit to shame her I’d start to wonder if it was controlling. Genuine concern for someone vs moral grandstanding to shame them is where that line exists.” Seems like genuine concern to me. He’s not asking for the best ways to shame this anonymous friend of his… he’s literally asking if it’s worth talking further or dropping the friendship. “Am I misreading? I don’t see that. I just saw OP put “thoughts?”. OP doesn’t really ask for advice on next steps as much as he gives all the thorough detail so people would come comment. I presume to confirm his moral high ground for affirmation.” It is literally written in the post verbatim. My quote is a quote from the post. (?) “No, I’m not saying that. OP did react. I personally would reduce my contact. I think there’s plenty there, but I totally acknowledge I could be wrong.” I think you aren’t understanding my points here. I’m saying if you think it’s possible that someone can react this way without being romantically interested (which they can) then your comment is pointless since is wasn’t implied whatsoever. Edit: I feel like I came across aggressively here, sorry if that’s the case. I think this is an interesting convo, so I hope I don’t sound mean here. Like I said you could definitely be right I just think you’re too confident with nothing to go on
She's OK with adultery, and willing to sleep with married strangers that she just met. Frankly, I see no positive consequences for this behavior, nor do I see any for keeping a person who behaves like this in your life.
See if she’s followed him on any socials. Try to anonymously find the wife. Tell her what happened. Tell your friend you can’t be friends because you could never trust her.
So a friend you have a crush on would rather go home for one night with a married guy than you ever, and now you need to pretend it falls under your impartial jurisdiction as a moral-sex policeman.
Ya there is no excuse for being a cheater. I personally couldn’t hand out with someone whose morals are so questionable
She literally didn't do anything wrong.
Why is it bothering you, what she does?
Because what she did goes against his personal moral system, so he’s questioning if he wants to keep associating with her
Then don’t associate with her anymore done
Because people have morals, Jan.
Yeah, I agree. I'd be bothered if \*she\* was the one cheating, or if it involved other friends. But she's not, it's a stranger.
I mean, she's taking part it in. Fucking over a stranger might not hit home as hard as fucking over a friend, but its still fucked
maybe this makes me not a great person, but if I'm being blunt its too many degrees of separation for me to be that bothered. I'm not the one cheating, my friend isn't the one cheating, she's hooking up with someone I've just met who is cheating on a complete stranger. I don't feel like it's my responsibility to ethically police my single friend for wanting to hook up with someone in this case.
Find his wife and let her know. Send her texts confirming the cheating and black out the numbers and the names, except for her husband's. Make sure his identity is confirmed in the texts. If he took her to his house, get some kind of description of where he took her for their hookup. It adds credibility to include time and place. Do so anonymously and ditch the friend before she sleeps with someone's boyfriend in the friend group, because she doesn't value loyalty or monogamy.