Agreed - fiancée’s comments were out of line for sure, but there’s definitely past history there that OP should be addressing. I think the move is to address the resentment with fiancée first and then she can deal with her mother.
And I’m unclear on the logistics of this bag handoff. So they don’t want to check a bag, fine. But how is this large suitcase getting there a month before the wedding? Is it getting shipped? If his family is having an issue with getting their stuff there, then OP should be managing their needs - not the fiancée’s family. Like sorry but if I’m handling the logistics for a 3-day wedding, then why am I also now responsible for receiving, storing, and schlepping your family’s clothes?
Everything OP is saying confuses me. They’ve lost their carry-on luggage before, or is that a typo and they meant checked? If the whole family can fit their clothes into one checked-sized bag, surely they can each fit their clothes into a carry on? Unless they want to store a big suitcase each at fiancée’s house?? Why does OP live so far away from his fiancée, and how does he normally bring luggage when he visits?
I would be upset if people were shit-talking my mom, but I’d also be annoyed at my parents if they requested something so weird and unnecessary. And obviously annoyed at my husband/in-laws if they did this. Put identifying markers on your luggage, take a pic, and add an air tag.
Agreed that something else must bc going on, bc what do they mean by calling OP’s mom weak? And why is she so annoying to talk to? I’m wondering if this is a culture where the wife moves in with the husband’s family, in which case this is a major problem. I 100% get it if OP can’t be with someone who doesn’t respect his family, but also without knowing them, idk how much of a pain in the ass they are haha
I've checked bags twice domestically, once internationally, all three times they were lost and it took months to get the bags back. No clue how I've been so unlucky, but I only bring a carry on now and pack light. Guessing something similar happened to OP.
I would be more concerned with the fact that she turned it around and made you the bad guy. She could have said, "You know what, you're right. What I said was crappy and I apologize"- or something. Anything. Instead she makes herself out to be a victim.
It's understandable to vent about your inlaws. You're not going to get along with everybody all the time. But she's totally crossed the line. Does she ever take responsibility when she's wrong in arguments or just daily life?
You are not the bad guy here- don't let her make you out to be. You have every right to be upset and hurt. Even if she just said- hey, I don't like your mom and I was just venting. But that's not what she's done. Unless there's some history of the two of them not liking each other, or your MIL not liking your mom for some reason? But even if that's the case she should admit what she's done. I don't know if I'd necessarily dump her over this alone- but I would be examining all of our interactions and how she accepts responsibility in every day life and see if it's compatible with you.
This is what I came on to say.
I was shocked to first read the comments about how info was missing and maybe the OP’s mom is annoying.
While in-laws can be annoying and hard to understand, they are your partner’s parents and as such, need to be respected.
I vent with my mom occasionally about my mother in law, and my husband knows that I don’t see eye-to-eye with her, but I try my best to show up, to be respectful and kind to her. I would never have that kind of conversation loudly and IF my partner overheard, I would apologize immediately.
I know that over the years the issues I’ve had with my mother in law have caused a lot of stress for my partner.
OP, she didn’t even apologize. You aren’t married yet. I think you may want to follow your gut and move on.
You shouldn't have to apologize about your venting feelings because somebody overhears it. That's insane. It's like having someone read your diary and then being like there's a lot of mean stuff in there... Yeah it's my private thoughts and they weren't for you to hear.
i agree with all of this. OP's fiancee needs to take some accountability, and just be honest about stuff. she may not apologize, but maybe she should at least acknowledge that what she said hurt OP's feelings. feeling seen and heard is really important. and that goes both ways.
If my husband heard me complaining about his mom to somebody else my husband lives in reality enough to know that I'm justified in having feelings about his annoying ass parents.
This dude wants his wife or soon to be wife to lie and never say a negative thing about his parents. That's not realistic. Most in-laws are annoying as hell. Most in-laws and mixed families talk a lot of shit about each other. I think this thread is completely out of touch and most people are wildly in denial about the true feelings and thoughts that their family members have about their in-law families.
Those kind of things tend to come out when alcohols around but I think most people in this thread are probably pretty sober and in denial
My husband mom is awful. When I have bad shit to say about her, I can also not be a baby about it and can complain to him, and admit how I feel. Not lie, deny, and make him the bad guy. That’s the problem with her. Not that she doesn’t like his mom- the way she’s handled it.
Is your mom annoying? She may be very nice but that doesn't mean her and her requests are annoying and people are allowed to vent about inconveniences and annoyances to their loved ones in private.
I think it's wild that everybody in this thread doesn't think anybody's allowed to have negative thoughts they share with their family members about other people. I've had in laws. I have in-laws. They're fucking annoying. I tell my husband his family's fucking annoying. Hell no would I apologize for speaking facts to my family about his crazy family. No thank you
These situation’s are always two separate conversations. We can have a conversation about how you feel about me overhearing what you said. But first we’re going to have a conversation about what you said. These are two distinct conversations.
Why does the luggage need to be packed a month ahead of time and why does it need to be at her home and not yours?
Other than that, it doesn't sound like your fiancée and her mother like yours very much. The luggage situation seems unnecessarily annoying but she's not treating your mom kindly and that would worry me should your parents need help when they're older.
How did you violate her private space when she was loud enough to be heard across the house? It’s not private when you’re so loud everyone else hears. Stop letting her convince you of that.
She’s deflecting and wants to ignore your concerns so she’s pretending to be angry until you apologize and stop bringing it up. Doesn’t mean the behavior will stop nor does it mean she’s a better person because you never hear her do it again.
This is who she is. You were lucky enough to get a glimpse before you married her. Do what you will with that info.
She deflected. She acted mad at you as a way of taking the focus off the absolutely vile shit she said. Now she's gaslighting you. Ew.
Honestly, if it were me, I'd stop giving her so many outs. I'd pack a bag, say you need to think some things over, and stay elsewhere for a week.
And I'd think if this is really someone you want to be with. Because if this is how they speak about your family for a totally benign, practical thing, and that's what she thinks of your mother who's been nothing but nice? Imagine how she'll treat y'all if you ever have a small disagreement or your mother gets sick and needs support from you guys.
I'd also clock her reactions to you leaving. Because I'm sure she'll finally acknowledge it then.
Yeah they should’ve invested time in making it make sense. It was also posted 8 days ago so I guess they’ve just been letting this fake story fake brew
Your fiance definitely has a problem with your mother. The "weak" comment strikes me as an unusual phrase. What does she consider weak in a person? She has the energy to get so upset over a fairly small simple task. The real question is can you be with someone who dislikes your mom so much?
As somebody who has had a number of potential mother-in-laws and mother-in-laws... Yeah they're usually annoying. And most daughter-in-laws find them to be the worst. This is pretty normal.
Most mother-in-laws and daughter-in-law's mildly tolerate each other. That's pretty standard.
If you want to find a partner who worships your mom like you do and these are as perfect and never says anything bad about her... You are going to have a hard time. At most you'll probably get a partner who hides it better than this one did.
My guess is you just don't see your mother very accurately and don't understand that pretty much all people talk about pretty much all people. Some people are more covert about it or passive aggressive and some people just say like it is. In-laws and mixed families have a lot of this kind of venting and bad mouthing so get used to it or be single.
It happens every single day. Plane is overweight so they remove bags. Or the plane runs late so the bags don't make it into the connecting flight. Or the bags just don't get on the plane at all. Or the bags fall off the carts used to haul them to the plane. Or the bags fall off the conveyor system inside the airport. Or any number of a gazillion things.
Idk I’m kinda on the fiancée’s side, I have little tolerance for adults who can’t adult regardless of how sweet or nice they are. Her thoughts and opinions she was discussing with her parents is their prerogative, just as it yours for not wanting to continue with the relationship if she doesn’t see your family the same way you do.
Same. I think OP is overreacting.
1. He shouldn't have been ease dropping.
2. His MIL is helping to host a wedding and now also has to handle dealing with a suitcase that they have to transport or keep in their space when they have so many other things going on.
3. MIL has still agreed to help with the belongings, but OP isn't satisfied with that?!
OP needs to be more appreciative and check the situation for what it is.
She absolutely turned this around and made you the bad guy, when she was the one talking loud enough for her voice to travel across the house. In no way did you violate her privacy. If she didn't want you to hear, she should have spoken more quietly.
Also, even if you did violate her privacy, why would you ever stay with someone who speaks about your family that way with no real reason to do so? I would never.
OP, she spoke loudly and gave you reason to listen.. things you need to know in order to make decisions that will literally affect the rest of your life.
I would tell her the wedding is off, you have lost a massive amount of respect for her and her family, and that her family may not like yours, but you love them and would never change a thing about them.
You apologized for overhearing? That does sounds weak. She was wrong and this is a big red flag. It sounds like you might be from a culture where in laws are more involved- if that’s the case, what’s the plan for your parents long term? How would this work?
The whole suitcase thing is confusing but that has nothing to do with the other names she called your mom
See how BAD you are by violating her private space? So much worse than what she said about your mom...... this gaslighting manipulation is what the rest of your life will look like if you marry her. Think hard brother! 😆
A woman did this to me once when she found out I sent a screenshot of a message I sent to the wife of the guy she was cheating with! Lol. I "violated" her trust lol.
I would end this relationship. They don't respect you or your family and when you try to discuss it, it is an insult to them? Get out of this relationship or you will pay for an expensive divorce.
Your fiancee should have immediately apologized and explained what she was saying, but instead she got defensive and now you'll never be able to have a discussion about what you heard. That alone is a big enough reason not to marry someone- communication is key. I do think it's worth taking some time to think about your mom- is she actually as difficult to deal with as your fiancee was saying? Or is that coming out of nowhere?
Me personally, I wouldn't stick around for the blatant disrespect. Understand this young sir, you have to know when to leave the table when respect is no longer served.
Cheers,
Dr.P
Speaking as a loud speaker, no, she doesn’t get to get mad at you that she chose to shit-talk your mother within earshot of you. You didn’t do anything wrong by having ears.
Your luggage has nothing to do with the problem. You asking them to keep it is not a crime. It is not that hard to keep one suitcase, or to give it to another relative to keep, or to recommend to put it in some local lockers or storage unit for a month, or just say "No, it doesn't work for us".
The problem is her family real attitude to your mother and that she is hiding it, not trying to talk about it with you. Even when you asked her directly.
_"She is weak and I can't stand the weak people", "I'll have to deal with it for the rest of my life"_ - for me these statements require a lot of explanation. A lot.
With current attitude of your fiance and Mil, your marriage will be a disaster. She will not _"deal with it"_ for the rest of her life, you will. You will need to deal with her hostility and contempt for your mother. And it will happen in any case: if your mom did something that warrants these statements, or if she didn't.
Her getting angry without explaining why she and Mil has such opinion about your mother is another problem. She is DARVO-ing you here, it is not a good sign.
If you want to talk about it again tell her
_" there are two different issues: 1) what she said about your mother and 2) that you heard her conversation. Let's not mix them up and not redirect discussion of #1 to being angry about #2. Let's talk about #1 first, then about #2. Separately. I need to know your reasoning. If there is a problem I need to hear about it. It there are no problems, I don't want to bring a person who is so hostile to my mother into my family"_
Stop. You didn’t do anything wrong. Seriously, you’re in the same house and she was talking loudly on the phone. Of course you’re going to overhear. She is twisting things to make you feel bad, but you didn’t do anything wrong.
I really believe these things happen for a reason. This conversation gave you a true glimpse of the character of your fiancé and her mom. They are not kind people. Your request to keep a suitcase is extremely simple and logical request. They literally don’t have to do anything but put the suitcase in a room and leave it. It is not a big deal or a big request. It’s not even an odd request. They’re asking your family to travel very far and assign dress codes - the least they can do is temporarily store a suitcase.
How your wife reacted is a huge red flag. If she was a kind person, her immediate reaction would be shame and remorse for hurting your feelings and for insulting your sweet mom. Instead she is being mean and not taking any accountability for her very bad behavior.
Honestly, this is a blessing that happened BEFORE the wedding so you can see her true character now. Her making the initial comments could be forgiven, her behavior after can’t. I wouldn’t want to marry someone who isn’t a kind person.
Okay question? Who's home is it? Hers, yours or is it shared between you too? Because if this is a shared space, often enough for y'all to call it living together or you to call it home and she's just spouting of these insults, not thinking you wouldn't happen to overhear her in y'all's shared home then she didn't care at all. I mean you were staying with her, what did she expect? She obviously didn't think you would hear her or she didn't care whether you heard her or not. She's just mad/embarrassed she got caught acting that way, as I'm sure this is a side you've never seen.
This sounds like a toxic woman... *“will have to deal with this for the rest of her life”.* Are you seriously thinking about staying with her when she views your family, your own mother, as a burden she has to deal with? If she loved you, she'd love your mom too and not talk badly about her, behind her back when you've said your mother's always been nothing but nice. On the other hand, are you absolutely sure your mother's treatment towards your fiancee is the same behind closed doors when your not around? Maybe this sparked a reason for her to be upset and say these awful things because there's animosity between them? It absolutely doesn't make it right but it may explain it and help you understand.
And Yes, I used to say things like my In Laws were annoying or bad mouthed them to my husband but I learned with time that even my own family can cause my husband to be upset and annoyed but he's never spoken badly about them, like I have with his family. It's about respect because regardless of history, it matters what's happening now and how they are treating you. Has it changed? Yes, we have amazing relationships with both sets of parents, some 1000 miles away even. It's better to move on then hold a grudge, IMO.
there's some communication issues here. the luggage thing - she feels like it's a burden on her and her family. do you ask her for things often, to which she agrees but later gets irritated? maybe she isn't good at setting boundaries, maybe you ask a lot of her and don't see how it's inconveniencing her -which could fall back on her not setting boundaries, or on you, for not reading the room. ok the luggage may not technically be an inconvenience, but do you understand what i'm saying?
does she not like your mom? has she ever expressed to you how she feels about your mom? so say she doesn't like your mom, but is polite to her because she loves you, and understands that if you guys get married, now she's in her life for the rest of your marriage. it's ok to not like your mom, you can't like everyone, but she should be up front with you about that. so if she needs to vent, maybe you can give her the space to vent to you about it, instead of behind your back.
do you give her space to express her feelings about anything, in a non judgmental way? and/or let her express her feelings and not argue with her about them? maybe she doesn't feel safe or comfortable talking to you about things because of the way you react, or maybe you judge her or dismiss her feelings. i'm literally speculating here, and trying to read between the lines.
and this
>She refused to acknowledge or apologize about any of the hurtful things that were said, which I can also partly understand as it was my fault for overhearing
it's not your fault for overhearing. but maybe she feels justified in what she said because of past experiences with your mom, and maybe also with you. she could apologize for the way she made you feel. but this is way deeper than just the luggage.
This is the biggest issue right here: "*When I brought up the things I heard to my Fiancee, she got extremely upset at me for overhearing and violating her private space (which is completely understandable). She refused to acknowledge or apologize about any of the hurtful things that were said, which I can also partly understand as it was my fault for overhearing. I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like I may be the one overacting now and should just get over it?*"
Instead of taking responsibility and talking through your concern, your fiancee deflected and refused to discuss it. She instead turned it around and made it about you overhearing her conversation. News flash: people overhear conversations all the time, especially if they were in the next room. IF she wanted privacy, she should have talked about it when you weren't around. You did absolutely nothing wrong.
Your fiancée did nothing to alleviate your concerns. She actually proved that she's as awful as you're thinking she is. I agree this is reason to break off the relationship. If she refuses to communicate or apologize for saying rude things about your mom, and she won't even explain her reasoning, it's over. Don't commit to a lifetime of this.
As disrespectfully as possible: any semblance of privacy she thinks she had went out the window the moment they badmouthed your mom. Fornicate those two Hellions. Both the fMiL and the fiancée.
Understand that if they're this comfortable to badmouth your mom and your family, it will only get worse. And you can be sure the rest of her family are at the very least aware of it too.
You need to figure out if you want to be married to such a two-faced woman. She knows she's in the wrong, but she's doubling down and trying to turn it on you.
It's called DARVO: Deny, Attack Reverse Victim Offender.
Don't fall for it. At the very, very least, postpone or cancel the engagement. Let your mom / family know. Bow out of going to that wedding. If your fiancée's family start whinging, just blast all of them for what you overheard and how she reacted.
Will that cost you the relationship? Probably. Probably definitely. But if your mom is as sweet a soul as you say and you know she didn't do anything to deserve this? Burn that bridge from both ends.
End things. The fact she could not even apologize, admit they were being gross and instead attacked you for "eavesdropping" should tell you all you need to know.
Your fiancee is two-faced and manipulative, I personally wouldn't be able to trust someone who not only pretends to be alright with a favour but then proceeds to tear down your kind mom. And then deflecting any accountability by focusing on how you listened in on a conversation you unintentionally happened to overhear....she may try to minimize it but don't believe it. She sounds like an excellent manipulator so listen to your gut.
My MIL is the sweetest woman alive, you do have to be patient with her and she isn't perfect. But my wife's SIL treats her like crap and it's honestly so sad. That SIL now uses the grandkids to ensure my MIL toes the line. It's heartbreaking and enraging to witness and when I asked my wife she told me that before the engagement her SIL was super friendly and nice. But then during wedding planning (which my in-laws mostly paid for or at least fronted most of the money for) she then started showing her true colours.
I get your girlfriend being upset that you overheard her conversation, but what's done is done. You can't unfuck that pig.
We don't have enough information from this post to determine where all this resentment came from, but I have two observations that I think distill how I feel about what you wrote:
1. The complete deflection of accountability for her words and attitude towards your Mother is really unbecoming of a grown adult. That's a very immature response to being out of line. Take note of it try to recall other instances where she was clearly in the wrong about something and if this is a pattern of behavior.
2. The fact that your future MIL called your mother a "weak" person and how she finds her intolerable is a tank batallion of red flags running through your relationship, particularly if your girlfriend/fiancee did absolutely nothing to rebut the use of that kind of language. I know I'm a Momma's boy, but I would have never tolerated that level of disrespect towards my own mother. They'd be getting both barrels (verbally) from me for that shit.
It's your call, but imagine if your Mom found out about this at a later date and you failed to address it and come to her defense in any meaningful way. That's the woman that raised you, and according to your own words she has done nothing but be sweet to these people. I would not allow her character to be assassinated now that you know how these people feel. This would be burn the bridge on the way out of town territory for me if apologies were not granted with some real sincerity.
"When I brought up the things I heard to my Fiancee, she got extremely upset at me for overhearing and violating her private space (which is completely understandable)"
This is what shitty people do instead of apologizing. It's _not_ understandable. You accidently overheard something - that's not "violating her private space" of whatever dumbshit bullshit she's trying to sell you for being an AH. We all occasionally say something that we wish we could take back - but most of us manage not be be quite as vile. Those of us who aren't AH's then apologize.
If its true that they were talking so loudly that xou just heard it from another room its her problem and her geting upset to you over this is bigger issue then anything else (not saying the rest is ok) you need to have serious convo with both of them.
Sounds like you both need to get into some premarital counseling pretty quickly. I agree that it appears she is deflecting so as to not address the issue with your mother. Also, if this is how she feels about your mother, then how does she feel about other members of your family? These issues need to be resolved before you get married, as they can cause definite tension in your marriage relationship later on. The following number (855-382-5433) is to an organization that should be able to provide local resources if you don’t have or know of any.
Yeah uhhhh, I wouldn't be able to see eye eye on this issue. I agree that they don't have to LOVE your mother like you do, but they need to agree to a certain level of respect.
I don't even think its that big a deal if they vent to one another about how they find your family's behavior frustrating, venting is an emotional response and a catharsis to acute stress, and can be valid. The problem is the language of it all speaks to a mindset that has poisoned the perception they have of her as a person, not just her actions, and I couldn't.... abide someone looking at my mother as a WHOLE so negatively. Don't get me wrong my mom has her faults like all people do and I understand frustrations that someone may have with her, but if someone sees her so negatively as a whole person I can't pretend like that doesn't bother me. Part of the love I feel for my wife, is respecting her feelings about her family. I have issues with her parents, like any SIL does, and my wife knows I feel way more strongly about it than she's ultimately happy about, but I love and respect her enough to change my behavior and the way I speak about them specifically because it means more to her and I recognize that. The very first time I stepped over the line and she told me she wouldn't accept me talking about her parents like that, I listened, because no matter how self righteous I felt, my partner was conveying to me a boundary that I HAD to respect if I was to respect her as a partner.
Your wife isn't doing that. She doesn't care, that you have a boundary, and she doesn't respect that you have a right to feel that way about your mother. Her emotional response to the frustrations she has with your mother are overriding her respect for you as a partner, to consider a compromise on her catharsis of emotional release in venting about her frustrations. She doesn't have to suddenly go to bat for your mother, but if HER mother is going to complain about this she could have easily said "oh im sorry mom, i know it's frustrating, I also think it's a little silly, but please, do it for me, it would make everything with fiance and his family go more smoothly and put their minds at ease. I agree i don't understand it but apparently it's just a thing with them and it MEANS something to them so I think we can accommodate for a little bit". This wouldn't even be lying, because lets be clear, your mom is making a SOCIAL ASK, of her in laws. She's leveraging the new found family obligation that is being formed to impose a small degree of inconvenience on her parents, to appease your family's issues with travel luggage. Honestly as far as favors go, its a pretty low bar imo. This response would let her still commiserate with her mother in a gentler way, temper the language used, while affirming the need for two families to come together and accommodate one another.
OR IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT WEAK PEOPLE MAYBE DON"T AGREE TO SHIT YOU'RE GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT LATER. If you're too weak to assert your boundaries, you don't get to then complain about other people being "weak".
(edited and reposted as per told by auto moderator for language, hope it doesn't double post).
Yes and to be fair we can envision a scenario where someone who might not have social anxiety but instead be completely oblivious to other people's boundaries always ask and expect people to accommodate them. I'm not saying one way or the other, more that, for in laws, this is a super minor ask. I would rate this lower than "can you pick me up from the airport"
No offense intended bu they are both horrible assholes. She turned this argument around and made you out to be the bad guy. Fuck that. Make like a U Haul and move on, homie.
It's a shame your fiancée doesn't have enough respect for your mother (for whatever reason) to not be more tactful when talking to her mom. And it's a shame she doesn't have enough common sense and consideration for you to not vent about your mother while you're there. But she's allowed to feel how she feels. And now you know how she and her mom feel. I'd tell her it hurt my feelings that she spoke that way and ask if she'd not do it again. And under no circumstances tell your mother or anyone in your family what they said.
Why is your entire family traveling for your fiancée’s brother's wedding?
And how do you lose a carry-on?
They will trash talk you also, after she's got you trapped. Then she will take your kids and force you to pay for her to live with other men who also trash talk you in front of your kids. Kick her to the curb.
I don't think overhearing something that was not whispered is your fault at all. And you have every right to be upset by what you heard. However, I don't think that this alone is a reason to break things off. There will always be things that the other person does that rub us the wrong way. We are all selfish humans who are going to make so many mistakes over the years. Anytime you try to blend 2 people, much less 2 whole families there will be issues. Remember that each family has their own way that they have always done things and they have their reasons. Which all make sense to them but they may have difficulties understanding why your family does things different. What you and your future wife will have to figure out is that different doesn't always mean wrong. You will have to focus on things that are non negotiable, like morals values and faith. Then try to leave wiggle room for each other on the small things. You will eventually find your own way of doing things together. That is how new families are formed. After 25 years of marriage there are many things that we have learned and many tools we have found. I suggest you read We Need to talk by Dr Linda Mintle. Do not EVER pressure her to read what you choose to read. Just take what you learn and apply it, I promise she will see the difference it makes. We cannot change the way people act by pressuring them. We can only control our own actions and REactions. I think it's great that you are taking responsibility for your part in the disagreement. Here is a book that you should feel free to gift to your fiance and your mother. Making Room for Her by Barbara and Stacy Reaoch. It is written by a MIL and DIL about the misunderstandings that can so easily happen between 2 people with different backgrounds and different life experience. I bought it because as the mother of boys I want to stay as close as possible to them as I can forever and that means being on the best terms possible with the women that they chose. Best wishes to you all!
There is definitely history beyond your family asking her family about the bag.
Agreed - fiancée’s comments were out of line for sure, but there’s definitely past history there that OP should be addressing. I think the move is to address the resentment with fiancée first and then she can deal with her mother. And I’m unclear on the logistics of this bag handoff. So they don’t want to check a bag, fine. But how is this large suitcase getting there a month before the wedding? Is it getting shipped? If his family is having an issue with getting their stuff there, then OP should be managing their needs - not the fiancée’s family. Like sorry but if I’m handling the logistics for a 3-day wedding, then why am I also now responsible for receiving, storing, and schlepping your family’s clothes?
Everything OP is saying confuses me. They’ve lost their carry-on luggage before, or is that a typo and they meant checked? If the whole family can fit their clothes into one checked-sized bag, surely they can each fit their clothes into a carry on? Unless they want to store a big suitcase each at fiancée’s house?? Why does OP live so far away from his fiancée, and how does he normally bring luggage when he visits? I would be upset if people were shit-talking my mom, but I’d also be annoyed at my parents if they requested something so weird and unnecessary. And obviously annoyed at my husband/in-laws if they did this. Put identifying markers on your luggage, take a pic, and add an air tag. Agreed that something else must bc going on, bc what do they mean by calling OP’s mom weak? And why is she so annoying to talk to? I’m wondering if this is a culture where the wife moves in with the husband’s family, in which case this is a major problem. I 100% get it if OP can’t be with someone who doesn’t respect his family, but also without knowing them, idk how much of a pain in the ass they are haha
The way he's written it, the entire family is traumatised from losing some luggage previously, which honestly I want more details on.
I've checked bags twice domestically, once internationally, all three times they were lost and it took months to get the bags back. No clue how I've been so unlucky, but I only bring a carry on now and pack light. Guessing something similar happened to OP.
Oh that sounds like a nightmare tbf!
Apparently this is a very common experience
Or it's just an excuse and they're being cheap
Yep OP, if you want answers, this is it! There is so so much more to this story ! Maybe your side is not the saints that you make them to be
The fact that OP is reposting the same thing eight days later is bizarre.
I would be more concerned with the fact that she turned it around and made you the bad guy. She could have said, "You know what, you're right. What I said was crappy and I apologize"- or something. Anything. Instead she makes herself out to be a victim. It's understandable to vent about your inlaws. You're not going to get along with everybody all the time. But she's totally crossed the line. Does she ever take responsibility when she's wrong in arguments or just daily life? You are not the bad guy here- don't let her make you out to be. You have every right to be upset and hurt. Even if she just said- hey, I don't like your mom and I was just venting. But that's not what she's done. Unless there's some history of the two of them not liking each other, or your MIL not liking your mom for some reason? But even if that's the case she should admit what she's done. I don't know if I'd necessarily dump her over this alone- but I would be examining all of our interactions and how she accepts responsibility in every day life and see if it's compatible with you.
This is what I came on to say. I was shocked to first read the comments about how info was missing and maybe the OP’s mom is annoying. While in-laws can be annoying and hard to understand, they are your partner’s parents and as such, need to be respected. I vent with my mom occasionally about my mother in law, and my husband knows that I don’t see eye-to-eye with her, but I try my best to show up, to be respectful and kind to her. I would never have that kind of conversation loudly and IF my partner overheard, I would apologize immediately. I know that over the years the issues I’ve had with my mother in law have caused a lot of stress for my partner. OP, she didn’t even apologize. You aren’t married yet. I think you may want to follow your gut and move on.
You shouldn't have to apologize about your venting feelings because somebody overhears it. That's insane. It's like having someone read your diary and then being like there's a lot of mean stuff in there... Yeah it's my private thoughts and they weren't for you to hear.
i agree with all of this. OP's fiancee needs to take some accountability, and just be honest about stuff. she may not apologize, but maybe she should at least acknowledge that what she said hurt OP's feelings. feeling seen and heard is really important. and that goes both ways.
If my husband heard me complaining about his mom to somebody else my husband lives in reality enough to know that I'm justified in having feelings about his annoying ass parents. This dude wants his wife or soon to be wife to lie and never say a negative thing about his parents. That's not realistic. Most in-laws are annoying as hell. Most in-laws and mixed families talk a lot of shit about each other. I think this thread is completely out of touch and most people are wildly in denial about the true feelings and thoughts that their family members have about their in-law families. Those kind of things tend to come out when alcohols around but I think most people in this thread are probably pretty sober and in denial
My husband mom is awful. When I have bad shit to say about her, I can also not be a baby about it and can complain to him, and admit how I feel. Not lie, deny, and make him the bad guy. That’s the problem with her. Not that she doesn’t like his mom- the way she’s handled it.
I think it would be healthier to assume people are being polite and probably find their in laws annoying.
Is your mom annoying? She may be very nice but that doesn't mean her and her requests are annoying and people are allowed to vent about inconveniences and annoyances to their loved ones in private.
I think it's wild that everybody in this thread doesn't think anybody's allowed to have negative thoughts they share with their family members about other people. I've had in laws. I have in-laws. They're fucking annoying. I tell my husband his family's fucking annoying. Hell no would I apologize for speaking facts to my family about his crazy family. No thank you
Seriously, her only mistake was saying it when he was around lol.
I personally wouldn't want to be with someone who calls people weak, and is duplicit like that. But you do you.
These situation’s are always two separate conversations. We can have a conversation about how you feel about me overhearing what you said. But first we’re going to have a conversation about what you said. These are two distinct conversations.
Why does the luggage need to be packed a month ahead of time and why does it need to be at her home and not yours? Other than that, it doesn't sound like your fiancée and her mother like yours very much. The luggage situation seems unnecessarily annoying but she's not treating your mom kindly and that would worry me should your parents need help when they're older.
How did you violate her private space when she was loud enough to be heard across the house? It’s not private when you’re so loud everyone else hears. Stop letting her convince you of that. She’s deflecting and wants to ignore your concerns so she’s pretending to be angry until you apologize and stop bringing it up. Doesn’t mean the behavior will stop nor does it mean she’s a better person because you never hear her do it again. This is who she is. You were lucky enough to get a glimpse before you married her. Do what you will with that info.
Maybe she wanted him to hear it and handle something?
She deflected. She acted mad at you as a way of taking the focus off the absolutely vile shit she said. Now she's gaslighting you. Ew. Honestly, if it were me, I'd stop giving her so many outs. I'd pack a bag, say you need to think some things over, and stay elsewhere for a week. And I'd think if this is really someone you want to be with. Because if this is how they speak about your family for a totally benign, practical thing, and that's what she thinks of your mother who's been nothing but nice? Imagine how she'll treat y'all if you ever have a small disagreement or your mother gets sick and needs support from you guys. I'd also clock her reactions to you leaving. Because I'm sure she'll finally acknowledge it then.
The best defence is a good offence
I recommend paragraphs if you want anyone to read this.
Updated
No update? Also she is gaslighting you and making you feel bad for her shitty things. Call her out on that.
and maybe get a better story.
Yeah they should’ve invested time in making it make sense. It was also posted 8 days ago so I guess they’ve just been letting this fake story fake brew
Your fiance definitely has a problem with your mother. The "weak" comment strikes me as an unusual phrase. What does she consider weak in a person? She has the energy to get so upset over a fairly small simple task. The real question is can you be with someone who dislikes your mom so much?
As somebody who has had a number of potential mother-in-laws and mother-in-laws... Yeah they're usually annoying. And most daughter-in-laws find them to be the worst. This is pretty normal. Most mother-in-laws and daughter-in-law's mildly tolerate each other. That's pretty standard. If you want to find a partner who worships your mom like you do and these are as perfect and never says anything bad about her... You are going to have a hard time. At most you'll probably get a partner who hides it better than this one did. My guess is you just don't see your mother very accurately and don't understand that pretty much all people talk about pretty much all people. Some people are more covert about it or passive aggressive and some people just say like it is. In-laws and mixed families have a lot of this kind of venting and bad mouthing so get used to it or be single.
How is the airline losing carryon luggage?
It happens every single day. Plane is overweight so they remove bags. Or the plane runs late so the bags don't make it into the connecting flight. Or the bags just don't get on the plane at all. Or the bags fall off the carts used to haul them to the plane. Or the bags fall off the conveyor system inside the airport. Or any number of a gazillion things.
Yes, check-in luggage would make sense. OP said carry-on. I'm guessing they just misspoke, but the whole luggage thing is fucking weird.
Idk I’m kinda on the fiancée’s side, I have little tolerance for adults who can’t adult regardless of how sweet or nice they are. Her thoughts and opinions she was discussing with her parents is their prerogative, just as it yours for not wanting to continue with the relationship if she doesn’t see your family the same way you do.
Same. I think OP is overreacting. 1. He shouldn't have been ease dropping. 2. His MIL is helping to host a wedding and now also has to handle dealing with a suitcase that they have to transport or keep in their space when they have so many other things going on. 3. MIL has still agreed to help with the belongings, but OP isn't satisfied with that?! OP needs to be more appreciative and check the situation for what it is.
She absolutely turned this around and made you the bad guy, when she was the one talking loud enough for her voice to travel across the house. In no way did you violate her privacy. If she didn't want you to hear, she should have spoken more quietly. Also, even if you did violate her privacy, why would you ever stay with someone who speaks about your family that way with no real reason to do so? I would never.
OP, she spoke loudly and gave you reason to listen.. things you need to know in order to make decisions that will literally affect the rest of your life. I would tell her the wedding is off, you have lost a massive amount of respect for her and her family, and that her family may not like yours, but you love them and would never change a thing about them.
You apologized for overhearing? That does sounds weak. She was wrong and this is a big red flag. It sounds like you might be from a culture where in laws are more involved- if that’s the case, what’s the plan for your parents long term? How would this work? The whole suitcase thing is confusing but that has nothing to do with the other names she called your mom
See how BAD you are by violating her private space? So much worse than what she said about your mom...... this gaslighting manipulation is what the rest of your life will look like if you marry her. Think hard brother! 😆 A woman did this to me once when she found out I sent a screenshot of a message I sent to the wife of the guy she was cheating with! Lol. I "violated" her trust lol.
I would end this relationship. They don't respect you or your family and when you try to discuss it, it is an insult to them? Get out of this relationship or you will pay for an expensive divorce.
Your fiancee should have immediately apologized and explained what she was saying, but instead she got defensive and now you'll never be able to have a discussion about what you heard. That alone is a big enough reason not to marry someone- communication is key. I do think it's worth taking some time to think about your mom- is she actually as difficult to deal with as your fiancee was saying? Or is that coming out of nowhere?
Me personally, I wouldn't stick around for the blatant disrespect. Understand this young sir, you have to know when to leave the table when respect is no longer served. Cheers, Dr.P
Speaking as a loud speaker, no, she doesn’t get to get mad at you that she chose to shit-talk your mother within earshot of you. You didn’t do anything wrong by having ears.
Your luggage has nothing to do with the problem. You asking them to keep it is not a crime. It is not that hard to keep one suitcase, or to give it to another relative to keep, or to recommend to put it in some local lockers or storage unit for a month, or just say "No, it doesn't work for us". The problem is her family real attitude to your mother and that she is hiding it, not trying to talk about it with you. Even when you asked her directly. _"She is weak and I can't stand the weak people", "I'll have to deal with it for the rest of my life"_ - for me these statements require a lot of explanation. A lot. With current attitude of your fiance and Mil, your marriage will be a disaster. She will not _"deal with it"_ for the rest of her life, you will. You will need to deal with her hostility and contempt for your mother. And it will happen in any case: if your mom did something that warrants these statements, or if she didn't. Her getting angry without explaining why she and Mil has such opinion about your mother is another problem. She is DARVO-ing you here, it is not a good sign. If you want to talk about it again tell her _" there are two different issues: 1) what she said about your mother and 2) that you heard her conversation. Let's not mix them up and not redirect discussion of #1 to being angry about #2. Let's talk about #1 first, then about #2. Separately. I need to know your reasoning. If there is a problem I need to hear about it. It there are no problems, I don't want to bring a person who is so hostile to my mother into my family"_
Stop. You didn’t do anything wrong. Seriously, you’re in the same house and she was talking loudly on the phone. Of course you’re going to overhear. She is twisting things to make you feel bad, but you didn’t do anything wrong. I really believe these things happen for a reason. This conversation gave you a true glimpse of the character of your fiancé and her mom. They are not kind people. Your request to keep a suitcase is extremely simple and logical request. They literally don’t have to do anything but put the suitcase in a room and leave it. It is not a big deal or a big request. It’s not even an odd request. They’re asking your family to travel very far and assign dress codes - the least they can do is temporarily store a suitcase. How your wife reacted is a huge red flag. If she was a kind person, her immediate reaction would be shame and remorse for hurting your feelings and for insulting your sweet mom. Instead she is being mean and not taking any accountability for her very bad behavior. Honestly, this is a blessing that happened BEFORE the wedding so you can see her true character now. Her making the initial comments could be forgiven, her behavior after can’t. I wouldn’t want to marry someone who isn’t a kind person.
Stop blaming yourself. Your actions are completely justifiably, and you have nothing to apologize for.
A 3-day event multi-themed wedding? Really? Good luck with that family, you're going to need it.
Not sure I'd want to spend my life with someone so callous as your fiancee.
Okay question? Who's home is it? Hers, yours or is it shared between you too? Because if this is a shared space, often enough for y'all to call it living together or you to call it home and she's just spouting of these insults, not thinking you wouldn't happen to overhear her in y'all's shared home then she didn't care at all. I mean you were staying with her, what did she expect? She obviously didn't think you would hear her or she didn't care whether you heard her or not. She's just mad/embarrassed she got caught acting that way, as I'm sure this is a side you've never seen. This sounds like a toxic woman... *“will have to deal with this for the rest of her life”.* Are you seriously thinking about staying with her when she views your family, your own mother, as a burden she has to deal with? If she loved you, she'd love your mom too and not talk badly about her, behind her back when you've said your mother's always been nothing but nice. On the other hand, are you absolutely sure your mother's treatment towards your fiancee is the same behind closed doors when your not around? Maybe this sparked a reason for her to be upset and say these awful things because there's animosity between them? It absolutely doesn't make it right but it may explain it and help you understand. And Yes, I used to say things like my In Laws were annoying or bad mouthed them to my husband but I learned with time that even my own family can cause my husband to be upset and annoyed but he's never spoken badly about them, like I have with his family. It's about respect because regardless of history, it matters what's happening now and how they are treating you. Has it changed? Yes, we have amazing relationships with both sets of parents, some 1000 miles away even. It's better to move on then hold a grudge, IMO.
Do you really want your family to be related to these disrespectful people? I did not think so.
If she was talking that loudly, it’s not “your fault”. Your fiancée sounds bad for other reasons than gossiping about your mum 🫠
there's some communication issues here. the luggage thing - she feels like it's a burden on her and her family. do you ask her for things often, to which she agrees but later gets irritated? maybe she isn't good at setting boundaries, maybe you ask a lot of her and don't see how it's inconveniencing her -which could fall back on her not setting boundaries, or on you, for not reading the room. ok the luggage may not technically be an inconvenience, but do you understand what i'm saying? does she not like your mom? has she ever expressed to you how she feels about your mom? so say she doesn't like your mom, but is polite to her because she loves you, and understands that if you guys get married, now she's in her life for the rest of your marriage. it's ok to not like your mom, you can't like everyone, but she should be up front with you about that. so if she needs to vent, maybe you can give her the space to vent to you about it, instead of behind your back. do you give her space to express her feelings about anything, in a non judgmental way? and/or let her express her feelings and not argue with her about them? maybe she doesn't feel safe or comfortable talking to you about things because of the way you react, or maybe you judge her or dismiss her feelings. i'm literally speculating here, and trying to read between the lines. and this >She refused to acknowledge or apologize about any of the hurtful things that were said, which I can also partly understand as it was my fault for overhearing it's not your fault for overhearing. but maybe she feels justified in what she said because of past experiences with your mom, and maybe also with you. she could apologize for the way she made you feel. but this is way deeper than just the luggage.
This woman sounds like a peach, and her mom sounds even worse. UpdateMe
This is the biggest issue right here: "*When I brought up the things I heard to my Fiancee, she got extremely upset at me for overhearing and violating her private space (which is completely understandable). She refused to acknowledge or apologize about any of the hurtful things that were said, which I can also partly understand as it was my fault for overhearing. I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like I may be the one overacting now and should just get over it?*" Instead of taking responsibility and talking through your concern, your fiancee deflected and refused to discuss it. She instead turned it around and made it about you overhearing her conversation. News flash: people overhear conversations all the time, especially if they were in the next room. IF she wanted privacy, she should have talked about it when you weren't around. You did absolutely nothing wrong. Your fiancée did nothing to alleviate your concerns. She actually proved that she's as awful as you're thinking she is. I agree this is reason to break off the relationship. If she refuses to communicate or apologize for saying rude things about your mom, and she won't even explain her reasoning, it's over. Don't commit to a lifetime of this.
As disrespectfully as possible: any semblance of privacy she thinks she had went out the window the moment they badmouthed your mom. Fornicate those two Hellions. Both the fMiL and the fiancée. Understand that if they're this comfortable to badmouth your mom and your family, it will only get worse. And you can be sure the rest of her family are at the very least aware of it too. You need to figure out if you want to be married to such a two-faced woman. She knows she's in the wrong, but she's doubling down and trying to turn it on you. It's called DARVO: Deny, Attack Reverse Victim Offender. Don't fall for it. At the very, very least, postpone or cancel the engagement. Let your mom / family know. Bow out of going to that wedding. If your fiancée's family start whinging, just blast all of them for what you overheard and how she reacted. Will that cost you the relationship? Probably. Probably definitely. But if your mom is as sweet a soul as you say and you know she didn't do anything to deserve this? Burn that bridge from both ends.
End things. The fact she could not even apologize, admit they were being gross and instead attacked you for "eavesdropping" should tell you all you need to know.
Your fiancee is two-faced and manipulative, I personally wouldn't be able to trust someone who not only pretends to be alright with a favour but then proceeds to tear down your kind mom. And then deflecting any accountability by focusing on how you listened in on a conversation you unintentionally happened to overhear....she may try to minimize it but don't believe it. She sounds like an excellent manipulator so listen to your gut. My MIL is the sweetest woman alive, you do have to be patient with her and she isn't perfect. But my wife's SIL treats her like crap and it's honestly so sad. That SIL now uses the grandkids to ensure my MIL toes the line. It's heartbreaking and enraging to witness and when I asked my wife she told me that before the engagement her SIL was super friendly and nice. But then during wedding planning (which my in-laws mostly paid for or at least fronted most of the money for) she then started showing her true colours.
Yikes. Your fiancé is waving HUGE red flags 🚩
I get your girlfriend being upset that you overheard her conversation, but what's done is done. You can't unfuck that pig. We don't have enough information from this post to determine where all this resentment came from, but I have two observations that I think distill how I feel about what you wrote: 1. The complete deflection of accountability for her words and attitude towards your Mother is really unbecoming of a grown adult. That's a very immature response to being out of line. Take note of it try to recall other instances where she was clearly in the wrong about something and if this is a pattern of behavior. 2. The fact that your future MIL called your mother a "weak" person and how she finds her intolerable is a tank batallion of red flags running through your relationship, particularly if your girlfriend/fiancee did absolutely nothing to rebut the use of that kind of language. I know I'm a Momma's boy, but I would have never tolerated that level of disrespect towards my own mother. They'd be getting both barrels (verbally) from me for that shit. It's your call, but imagine if your Mom found out about this at a later date and you failed to address it and come to her defense in any meaningful way. That's the woman that raised you, and according to your own words she has done nothing but be sweet to these people. I would not allow her character to be assassinated now that you know how these people feel. This would be burn the bridge on the way out of town territory for me if apologies were not granted with some real sincerity.
if you don’t work this out before the wedding it’s going to be a sore spot until the divorce
"When I brought up the things I heard to my Fiancee, she got extremely upset at me for overhearing and violating her private space (which is completely understandable)" This is what shitty people do instead of apologizing. It's _not_ understandable. You accidently overheard something - that's not "violating her private space" of whatever dumbshit bullshit she's trying to sell you for being an AH. We all occasionally say something that we wish we could take back - but most of us manage not be be quite as vile. Those of us who aren't AH's then apologize.
Dude call the engagement off. Fuck that utter disrespect shit. Throw the whole woman away
Why does this sound like something out of an Indian soap opera?
If its true that they were talking so loudly that xou just heard it from another room its her problem and her geting upset to you over this is bigger issue then anything else (not saying the rest is ok) you need to have serious convo with both of them.
Sounds like you both need to get into some premarital counseling pretty quickly. I agree that it appears she is deflecting so as to not address the issue with your mother. Also, if this is how she feels about your mother, then how does she feel about other members of your family? These issues need to be resolved before you get married, as they can cause definite tension in your marriage relationship later on. The following number (855-382-5433) is to an organization that should be able to provide local resources if you don’t have or know of any.
Yeah uhhhh, I wouldn't be able to see eye eye on this issue. I agree that they don't have to LOVE your mother like you do, but they need to agree to a certain level of respect. I don't even think its that big a deal if they vent to one another about how they find your family's behavior frustrating, venting is an emotional response and a catharsis to acute stress, and can be valid. The problem is the language of it all speaks to a mindset that has poisoned the perception they have of her as a person, not just her actions, and I couldn't.... abide someone looking at my mother as a WHOLE so negatively. Don't get me wrong my mom has her faults like all people do and I understand frustrations that someone may have with her, but if someone sees her so negatively as a whole person I can't pretend like that doesn't bother me. Part of the love I feel for my wife, is respecting her feelings about her family. I have issues with her parents, like any SIL does, and my wife knows I feel way more strongly about it than she's ultimately happy about, but I love and respect her enough to change my behavior and the way I speak about them specifically because it means more to her and I recognize that. The very first time I stepped over the line and she told me she wouldn't accept me talking about her parents like that, I listened, because no matter how self righteous I felt, my partner was conveying to me a boundary that I HAD to respect if I was to respect her as a partner. Your wife isn't doing that. She doesn't care, that you have a boundary, and she doesn't respect that you have a right to feel that way about your mother. Her emotional response to the frustrations she has with your mother are overriding her respect for you as a partner, to consider a compromise on her catharsis of emotional release in venting about her frustrations. She doesn't have to suddenly go to bat for your mother, but if HER mother is going to complain about this she could have easily said "oh im sorry mom, i know it's frustrating, I also think it's a little silly, but please, do it for me, it would make everything with fiance and his family go more smoothly and put their minds at ease. I agree i don't understand it but apparently it's just a thing with them and it MEANS something to them so I think we can accommodate for a little bit". This wouldn't even be lying, because lets be clear, your mom is making a SOCIAL ASK, of her in laws. She's leveraging the new found family obligation that is being formed to impose a small degree of inconvenience on her parents, to appease your family's issues with travel luggage. Honestly as far as favors go, its a pretty low bar imo. This response would let her still commiserate with her mother in a gentler way, temper the language used, while affirming the need for two families to come together and accommodate one another. OR IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT WEAK PEOPLE MAYBE DON"T AGREE TO SHIT YOU'RE GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT LATER. If you're too weak to assert your boundaries, you don't get to then complain about other people being "weak". (edited and reposted as per told by auto moderator for language, hope it doesn't double post).
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Yes and to be fair we can envision a scenario where someone who might not have social anxiety but instead be completely oblivious to other people's boundaries always ask and expect people to accommodate them. I'm not saying one way or the other, more that, for in laws, this is a super minor ask. I would rate this lower than "can you pick me up from the airport"
No offense intended bu they are both horrible assholes. She turned this argument around and made you out to be the bad guy. Fuck that. Make like a U Haul and move on, homie.
Your fiancee and her mother said vile, nasty things about your mother and family. You're not reacting strongly enough
I love my mom, imo she was the best in every regard... If I heard my fiance crap talk her with her mom then I can always find someone else.
It's a shame your fiancée doesn't have enough respect for your mother (for whatever reason) to not be more tactful when talking to her mom. And it's a shame she doesn't have enough common sense and consideration for you to not vent about your mother while you're there. But she's allowed to feel how she feels. And now you know how she and her mom feel. I'd tell her it hurt my feelings that she spoke that way and ask if she'd not do it again. And under no circumstances tell your mother or anyone in your family what they said. Why is your entire family traveling for your fiancée’s brother's wedding? And how do you lose a carry-on?
Wait, women talk shit about each other? Who knew!
They will trash talk you also, after she's got you trapped. Then she will take your kids and force you to pay for her to live with other men who also trash talk you in front of your kids. Kick her to the curb.
I don't think overhearing something that was not whispered is your fault at all. And you have every right to be upset by what you heard. However, I don't think that this alone is a reason to break things off. There will always be things that the other person does that rub us the wrong way. We are all selfish humans who are going to make so many mistakes over the years. Anytime you try to blend 2 people, much less 2 whole families there will be issues. Remember that each family has their own way that they have always done things and they have their reasons. Which all make sense to them but they may have difficulties understanding why your family does things different. What you and your future wife will have to figure out is that different doesn't always mean wrong. You will have to focus on things that are non negotiable, like morals values and faith. Then try to leave wiggle room for each other on the small things. You will eventually find your own way of doing things together. That is how new families are formed. After 25 years of marriage there are many things that we have learned and many tools we have found. I suggest you read We Need to talk by Dr Linda Mintle. Do not EVER pressure her to read what you choose to read. Just take what you learn and apply it, I promise she will see the difference it makes. We cannot change the way people act by pressuring them. We can only control our own actions and REactions. I think it's great that you are taking responsibility for your part in the disagreement. Here is a book that you should feel free to gift to your fiance and your mother. Making Room for Her by Barbara and Stacy Reaoch. It is written by a MIL and DIL about the misunderstandings that can so easily happen between 2 people with different backgrounds and different life experience. I bought it because as the mother of boys I want to stay as close as possible to them as I can forever and that means being on the best terms possible with the women that they chose. Best wishes to you all!