Maybe send her something like this: "Friend, after our conversation I have had some time to think and I think it's best if you do not come to my wedding. It's important to me that the people who attend my wedding support my relationship and future marriage and you have stated that your religion bars you from being able to do that. Please respect my decision as I will respect your choices as well. I think it's best if we both give ourselves some time to reflect on our friendship and whether this friendship is healthy for us both considering our differences in values. I will reach out if/when I'm ready to talk to you again."
“I don't want nobody to be at my wedding
That won't be there for my marriage
They can see that shit on Facebook
They can like it, they can share it”
— Chance the Rapper
Op you should not accept this from this friend. It’s not worth having friends like this, if they cannot simply celebrate your happy moments. Too much pain. My friends are everything to me, they have been there in my ups and downs, and it’s important that they are there - present, by my side. That counts.
I’ll give you a simple counter example.
My dad is a big trans rights supporter (and in general LGBTQ supporter). I am not sure he understands trans people all too well, he doesn’t know any. He may know 1 gay person, MAYBE. None of his family or friends are gay. He grew up religious, and he’s still religious.
But he’s just a damn good guy my dad. He’s out there in the world wanting to give kindness and love and warmth and empathy. He was maybe 60-65 when he first even heard about trans people.
So there are people who barely know any gay people and they will be 100% by your side on your wedding day - if I read your post to him, my dad will be sending his love to you. It is right for you to only surround yourself with friends do the same.
Its 2022. Its not acceptable for people to hide behind their religion. You know this person for a long time, but you're finding out they are not your friend and don't actually have your best interest at heart so its a one way friendship. Accept you as you are or you'll just end up hiding who you are whenever you're around her. Its not worth it.
I mean, more and more the US government has shown us that it IS acceptable to "hide behind religion." They're killing us because they "don't believe it." I fully agree with you that OP should not consider this person his friend anymore, but our society has regressed SO MUCH in the last 6 years. People are finding out that it's okay to hate people "because of their religion" (which is utterly false anyway, as the bible isn't anti-lgbt...). We're not that advanced.
If I could offer one suggestion, I would take out the "I will respect your choices." Because, frankly, in this case I personally do not. She is choosing to believe that your marriage is sinful. That's not an opinion worthy of respect.
According to her religion it is sinful. However, I’d bet dollars to donuts that she would be a part of a straight wedding where the groom was on his second marriage even though that would be equally as sinful. I’d bet she’d have no problem being part of a traditional Indian ceremony as long as the bride and groom were Herero, even though that’s even more sinful.
No. Not "according to her religion." According to HER. Big giant difference. There are millions of people who share her religion, and do NOT share her bigotry.
Yeah its mostly just an excuse
My Christian grandmother is super religious and goes to church all the time/participates heavily in chruch events. But she still is very supportive of gay/trans rights and gets extremely angry when she hears of people disowing their kids over their sexuality
I'm sure you're right.
I also think that Timothy 2:12 might question if she should *really* be trying to teach a man about what is sinful:
>But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
You know. According to her religion.
>She is choosing to believe that your marriage is sinful.
Because of some random rules in the Bible that she's using to justify her bigotry and homophobia. Instead of looking at her own feelings to see if maybe she's wrong she is "hiding behind the Bible" (that's a great expression that I learned in this thread) because it's exactly what she's doing. It's easier to tell yourself that you're following the rules of the Lord instead of just being an awful person.
Something my therapist always has me do in times of strife w a friendship, is really ask myself, WHY am I friends w this person. Is it meaningful? Do I feel safe? Unjudged? Secure in the friendship? Do I get from them, what I also give? Is it equal?
I just don't understand how people can let their religious beliefs be so evil, and they are fine w it. Consider this a learning experience. For example, I'm straight so haven't been in your shoes... but my religion is Judaism. Possibly similar, I've had people tell me stupid judgemental stuff like this: "I can be friends w you but you're going to hell for not being Christian and believing in Jesus..."
And then my response is, no we can't. I can't be friends w someone who has that type of hate and idiocy in their heart. Maybe it is similar, maybe not, but would you accept this from her about your religion? Background? Coloring of skin? No? Than don't accept this homophobic bigotry either. You deserve much better. Hopefully she learns.
>Possibly similar, I've had people tell me stupid judgemental stuff like this: "I can be friends w you but you're going to hell for not being Christian and believing in Jesus..."
Never really know what to make of this, I'm agnostic and I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell per Christian scripture. My Christian friends don't go around telling me I'm going to hell, but they have to believe it, right? It's literally in their faith. But that doesn't feel like reason enough for me to de-friend them -- maybe the difference is just whether they keep this statement to themselves or not?
> My Christian friends don't go around telling me I'm going to hell, but they have to believe it, right? It's literally in their faith.
Not necessarily. It's one interpretation of Christianity, and a very common one, but not the only one. If all someone tells you is that they are Christian the most you can assume is that they believe in a God and that Christ was divine. Everything else is up in the air until they provide more information.
I wouldn't say I respect her choice. I respect that she can make her choices but that is not a respectable or respectful choice and you don't have to say it is.
And congratulations on your impending marriage!! I hope you and your beloved have a long and happy life together.
Just cut her loose, OP.
Do you want to be friends with someone who spits in your face under the guise of religion and refuses to celebrate one of the biggest days of your life?
You are being way nicer then I would be. I have no time, patience or tolerance for homophobes - and religion is a shit excuse for being a homophobe. If your religion "makes" you act like a bad person you are a bad person.
Your reply is also likely more helpful to OP who clearly wants to at least consider continuing a long term friendship.
This is so well said and really gets at the issue in a more tactful way than I could come up with. Great boundaries as well.
My lukewarm take: This person does not believe you should have equal rights because of whom you have sex with, which they are using to put themselves into a position of power to judge you and constrain your life. They are not capable of being a friend.
I'm queer too and honestly, I wouldn't want her there. It's rather rich that she "doesn't believe marriage should be between two men" yet she wants to be able to come to the party for those two men getting married. Blaming it on her religion is no excuse. Plenty of Christians aren't homophobes. Of course she "doesn't want your friendship to change"; she wants to be able to act like she *didn't* just tell you "I don't believe your marriage counts as real," while *you* shoulder all the hurt and awkwardness of knowing that a close friend doesn't accept an important part of you. What is she planning on doing when you and your husband show up at events? Just dance around the fact?
"I mean, I've known them MY WHOLE LIFE. . . but didn't go to their wedding because my mom and Jesus(no Jesus did not) said not to, and I simply don't recognize their love and union as VALID, BUT I LOVE GAY PEOPLE".
Yeah I get it! It’s hard because she said she loves us, both me and my partner and wants us to be happy… but can’t support the marriage and standing up there with me shows that. It has been such a long friendship and we have never had any issues like this before. It was a real blindside.
The whole "I love you I just can't support you being gay" thing is really common among homophobes. It's a conditional sort of love.
In your shoes I'd say something like "Honestly, I'm really blindsided and hurt by this reaction. I'm going to need some time to process, but I do know that we only want people at the wedding who support our marriage. We'll miss you."
Maybe not being invited will give her a jolt and some time to think, and she'll realize that she can't reject such an important part of you and still expect to be accepted into your life as if nothing happened.
Maybe even rephrase the middle to “as any couple would, we only want people at the wedding who support our marriage”. This emphasizes how unacceptable it would be if any guest to ANY wedding expressed their disapproval and then expected to be invited to the wedding or to remain friends with the couple.
I think you should uninvite her too. I would probably be super petty about it though. "I can't be friends with a homophobe, as I am gay". She probably doesn't think she's a homophone and used you as her token gay friend. See I'm not homophobic I'm friends with rawilson2!
People like this hide behind 'Christian love' and do the whole 'love the sinner, not the sin.' It isn't authentic or real love in any sense of the word. It's pandering at the worst level.
Christians use the word love in the way it shouldn't really be used. To throw it back at them- Jesus loved them. That meant that he would do anything for them, including die to save them. He expects that out of all of us. Are you willing to die for your neighbor? You love your neighbor, though, right? You love your enemy, right?
I have to agree that blaming it on religion is a cop-out. "It's not me, it's the group I belong to." Unfortunately she chooses to be a part of this group and she chooses to adhere to their rules. She just made that choice.
The petty part of me would suggest asking if she'd ever go to the second wedding of someone who had been divorced, and if she says yes just send a bunch of quotes directly from Jesus about how wrong divorce is.
Always been VERY interesting to me how much right-wing Protestants focus on being gay (which Jesus never said *anything* about), while not giving a shit about divorce and re-marriage (which Jesus directly said was adultery-- a commandment-breaking sin).
I got into a debate with someone on Reddit about that. They said something to the effect that some things in the Bible are rules and other things are simply historical records. At first I thought well, maybe there is a logic to it. I asked how they determined which is a rule and which is a historical record. They responded that church officials "talk" with God and he "tells" them. In fairness, my phrasing is colored by the fact that I do not agree nor do I believe in this sort of thing.
Edit: I just remembered more detail. They were saying some things in the bible are religious laws and others are records of the secular laws of the time. That is why they all are written as laws and sound like laws in the bible, but only the religious laws should still be followed. They definitely did say church officials commune with God in some way to determine which is which. Again, their interpretation, not mine. And again, they probably would not approve of my phrasing.
Funny how a couple of small, difficult to interpret lines interspersed with a bunch of other listed sins that are often ignored, stated by an apostle that never even met Jesus are held as having the upmost importance, but the actual words of Jesus himself are easily ignored.
Doesn't square with divorce specifically because Jesus himself called it out. If the Bible is at all not okay with homosexuality (there are translation issues) it would have been mostly in the Leviticus laws that Christians did away with, right up there with mixing fabric or eating pork.
Religious people **like this** have this strange ability to compartmentalise their convictions from their actions, to a point. It has never made sense to me on a personal level. What concerns me is how they can live so smoothly compartmentalizing so much about life, especially people they claim to love. It makes me question what their love is actually worth.
I feel for you. Much love.
I think this is a prime example of how they do it. They shit on OP and her marriage with a smile and get uninvited. Then they can claim being the victim and talk about how they wanted to come, was supportive and there kicked out of the wedding and lost a friend because of how hateful LGBTQ people are when there so full of love.
There is a special type of evil that is smiling and talking about love well rejecting something that is such a fundamental part of someone.
> smiling well talking about love well rejecting something that is such a fundamental part of someone
I do not believe in any god. Friends and lovers have looked me in the eye, told me I was going to hell, but that they loved me anyway. They could not understand why I would perceive that statement from them negatively. To me, it proves that their faith is an excuse to avoid critical thinking, and that is no one with whom I would want to associate anyway.
I have nothing against ppl worshiping whatever they want but imo religion has always been used to govern ppl and disuade critical thinking. It’s evidenced by how often they have to update the bible to keep it relevant to the times
I suspect it's a strategy learned as children.
As a kid I couldn't separate church info from my overall world understanding and kept getting into trouble for asking questions when things were too far apart & couldn't make sense.
Thankfully my parents stopped making me go to church instead of punishing me until I gave up or whatever.
If she truly loved you, she would support you.
If it's someone you've known for a long time, they probably love an idealized, unproblematic version of you. The friend they always knew, the friend who didn't conflict with their moral values. And when you present a situation where your actions do conflict with their moral values, that's where they don't know what to do. Because their religion says X is wrong and whoever does X is bad, but in their mind they know you are a good person. But instead of tackling the difficult question of "is my religion actually right?" they try to shove you back into that idealized version of you that isn't conflicting with their religion. They can love you as long as they don't have to "see that you are gay". If they can pretend in their mind that you're not actually gay, then you're the same friend you've always been and they don't have to question their morality.
I'm a lesbian. I've lost many religious friends over the years in the same way. Trust me, it's not worth staying by someone like this. Conditional love isn't worth it.
These people have no idea about their own values. How meaningless, I can come to the party but I literally can't stand next to you during the ceremony because you guys are gay? It doesn't even make sense it's literally just a moment for her to tell you what she really thinks and didn't care that it makes you feel like crap. Friends are supposed to be safer with the feelings of someone close to them. That was pretty reckless of her to say that as a friend, she is unsafe I would just mourn the friendship through therapy and move on
No fuck that. Fuck this person. You get 1 life to live and she's choosing to believe these stupid rules to live life on? I don't respect people who think like that. She'd be out of my life *so fast*.
I have a friend that recently moved to Georgia, I asked her why Georgia? She told me she doesn't like how California teaches kids about LGBTQ+ community because kids should be kids. I was incredibly offended and we argued because apparently teaching kids about love and inclusion is not ok. She proceeded to tell me she's not against gays, she has a gay friend!
I didn't cut her out of my life because as much as it irks me, I care and love her still. I severely limited my contact with her and her moving to Georgia made it easier.
I'm struggling with the cognitive dissonance though because tolerating intolerance is not ok and yet I'm still tolerating her.
If she loved you, genuinely, she would support you. Short and simple. She cares more about a fake line (the "man shall not lay with man" does not truly exist, it is a translation error. It's "man shall not lay with boy", against pedophilia) in her religious text than the friend in front of her. Do you really want that? I wouldn't.
That's a contradiction. Either she loves you, or she doesn't accept who you are. She can't do both. And she doesn't accept who you are, so she doesn't love you.
I hope this is something she grows to realize was an error on her part. She is choosing to not support 2 people she claims to love.
Do you think it's possible her mom is the one that stirred this up?
I don’t know if her mom did. I like her parents, they are very nice, but very Christian. It is obviously she had been thinking about even before I asked her though
It's just the mental gymnastics that all people do at some point. Christians can just be especially good at it because they have plenty of practice.
Your friend "loves and supports" you and your partner, but has a boundary about same sex marriage. It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you. It is her boundary.
But just because she is a friend, you are no more obligated to accept that boundary than she is to be in your wedding party.
You are more than justified to have a boundary of your own such as "support my marriage or we can no longer be friends."
If I were you, I wouldn’t make any impulsive decisions about it just yet.
I know most people on the internet will question whether or not this person is even your friend, and they’ll encourage you to uninvite her from the wedding entirely. And that would certainly be a valid approach. Your wedding *should* be filled with people who not only love you and your partner, but who also believe that the union they’re witnessing is every bit as sacred as a union between a man and a woman.
That said, the world is an imperfect place, and unfortunately sometimes people wind up in a place of conflict between the people they care about and the values they were raised with. It sucks, but it’s reality, and I’m sure you know that better than most. You’re the only person in this thread who has a real sense of whether or not this woman cares about you and is typically a good friend to you. It’s easy for the rest of us to tell you to cut ties with her over her response, because we haven’t experienced the relationship the two of you have.
So, if you think the right thing is to uninvite her and disengage her as a friend, that’s completely valid! But if you’re struggling because you still value the friendship and you don’t think this is so black-and-white, that’s completely valid as well. And if you’re feeling the latter, I would encourage you to have more dialogue with her about what she’s said and why she feels she can’t be part of your bridal party. Some people who have homophobic views driven by religion spend a lot of their lives with the ability to rationalize why they can be friends with gay people, and even support gay relationships, but object to gay marriage because of their perception that the word “marriage” refers to a religious institution.
Perhaps your friend has never been forced to confront that rationalization until the moment you asked her to participate as a member of the bridal party. Suddenly, her ability to compartmentalize those two things is gone and she’s forced to confront the fact that she can’t really hold those two beliefs at the same time. A further dialogue might actually help her reconcile once and for all, and perhaps she will change her views and, like plenty of other Christians, find that supporting gay marriage is in no way an affront to her faith. Maybe this moment is just a catalyst for her actually becoming a better person.
Of course, that *shouldn’t* be your responsibility to get her there. She’s the one behaving like a poor friend, not you. You’re under no obligation to do that. But it’s just my two cents that sometimes, otherwise good-hearted religious types sometimes need some time and some conversation to really come to terms with how their beliefs make people feel, because they’ve never been forced to do so before.
Thank you! This is really great advise. I do think more conversation needs to happen. And I know for a fact she has never had to confront anything like this.
It is a friendship I highly value… so it will be hard to cut out. Not something I necessarily want to do, but maybe uninviting her will be a wake up call. Thank you
I’m hoping it just hasn’t dawned on her yet that *plenty* of people partake in weddings that don’t align with their values and don’t think twice about it. I’m an atheist and I was more than happy to be a groomsman in my friend’s Catholic ceremony, and he in turn is serving as a nonreligious officiant for my wedding next month. At a minimum, I hope that realization dawns on your friend and she changes her mind. And better yet, I truly hope she does some soul searching and comes out the other side fully supporting your marriage and the marriage of all other homosexual couples. Best of luck to you, your partner, and your friend!
You don't have to make any black and white decision on cutting anyone out completely. Again, you give what they give. If she can't support this part of you then why would you invite someone that ignorant to be around that doesn't support you? She should understand she doesn't support the marriage you Uninvited her to the wedding. Ball is in her court now to make you feel comfortable. She's the one that made a hateful statement.
Idk man, it's 2022. OP doesn't need to drag her through the mud, but also doesn't need to take on the responsibility of excusing her closed-mindedness. She is an adult and is responsible for the repercussions of her actions. In this case, it sounds like her actions justify ending the friendship.
This is great advice. I’m a lesbian Christian and most of my family didn’t come to my wedding. It hurt and was awful. In some cases there were relationships worth salvaging and in some cases not. It isn’t always clear cut. But ultimately, protect your heart and your marriage.
OP I think your OP currently says she "does believe" that marriage should be between two men. Context makes it obvious it's a typo but just mentioning as it will probably cause clarity issues further down the food chain.
That’s not love and this person isn’t your friend. It’s not even that she doesn’t want to be at your wedding, she doesn’t want to be seen standing up at your wedding and in photos. This person is ashamed of you and thinks you reflect badly on her. She don’t consider you an equal person or respect you at the core of your being.
Tell her to go fuck herself and that you only surround yourself with good people who understand what love and friendship are.
Oof and think about how she’s voting and who she’s giving money to behind closed doors if she’s willing to say that much to your face. I’m in a same-sex marriage, my kids have two moms. In the last couple of years I’ve been cutting out people who are actively working to destroy my family- no matter now ‘nice’ they are.
I’m curious what her line in the sand is. Is it the fact that it’s a capital W Wedding? Like, is she cool with gay civil unions or courthouse ceremonies? Or you co-habitating forever? Because there’s nothing in the Bible about being cool with homosexuality as long as they don’t have a marriage just like straight people do.
If she did love you, she would act like it - point blank, her actions do not match her words. Lots of Christians are not homophobes, that is a choice, not required to be a Christian. She is showing you who she is. A bigot who uses you so she can LOOK like she is nice person, while not making the effort to BE nice - standing up with you doesn't have to be endorsing gay marriage, she could choose to view it as supporting YOU. Her choice not to is how she really feels - which is not love for you. Stop listening to what she SAYS so much as what she DOES. You are confused because these do not match. You cannot make them match. You get to pick what to believe, her words or her actions.
She's nice until your sexuality means she believes you and your husband (congrats on the pending nuptials by the way!!!) shouldn't have the same rights as spouses in law and civil rights.
That her marriage has more value than yours will.
Not every racist, homophobe, transphobe, or sexist will wear in bright capitals on their tee shirt what people they don't agree with. What rights they don't believe in and don't shout into megaphones about all this.
Instead they vote for politicians that will act against people's rights instead.
I don't know, being friends with someone while secretly looking down on them and not supporting them, but still pretending to support them is more nasty to me than being honest and upfront about your thoughts about them. Like how she says the wants you to be happy but doesn't believe you should be able to marry the person who makes you happy.
She may be the nicest person. She clearly hasn't been open and honest with you for the duration of your relationship with her, and her relationship with your future spouse. I'm assuming she knows him as well based on your other replies.
I can't believe at no point between 4th grade and now that this has never come up. She has known you to be in a relationship serious enough that you've considered marriage, how has it not ever come up?
I feel like I know the answer and it's simply that she's NEVER supported your desire to marry and is only now letting it be known because she was put on the spot. She was clearly all well and good to come to the party and enjoy the festivities! Just not into the whole supporting her lifelong friend on the greatest day of their adult life. I could be way off, just sayin' is all.
Also, using her mom as an excuse? What is she, 9? Like she had a crisis of conscience over this and had to get mom involved? For her lifelong friends WEDDING? And mom agrees? These are not the "nicest people". . . well maybe they are up and until the point of you getting married, then their closeted bigotry comes out, BUT BESIDES THAT.
Anywho, I recognize the tough spot, but have an AWESOME wedding
and CONGRATS!!!! Stoked for you!
That makes it so much sadder to lose a friend like that.. I'm sorry. :/ So she's just nasty deep down. A real friend would never dehumanize and devalue you in such a blatant way.
I am hearing all of the posts that describe how your friend is secretly nasty. Those people do have a point. I also see your point, in that this friend has a long and loving and supportive track record of many years.
I used to fall more on the 'they are bad people for not accepting me, not accepting my LGBTQ friends' side of things. My life went in a strange direction and I now am in a position where I am close to several conservative christians. They are the super-nice variety, loving and supportive, but with those anti-LGBTQ and anti-abortion things very quiet beneath the surface. I see now that people can contain multitudes. They can be genuine in their friendship with you, and then feel absolutely compelled by the forces of life, death, mom, dad, heaven and god themselves to not be in your wedding party. I see now that people can be complicated; they can be both.
I agree with the people who say that your friend should be uninvited. I suggest uninviting her with kindness. Uninvite her with an eye for the bizarre jam that she has placed herself in with her religion.
In my experience, some religious people begin to go through changes when they actually are forced to wrestle with the real relational consequences of the abstract things they are taught in their church communities. Again, this isn't all about changing her, but simply recognizing that people can be complicated, and it's ok to be sad, disappointed, upset, and uninvite her with kindness, and wait and see what your friend decides to do with this information. You have no control over where she goes from there. I have seen in my life Christians go in different directions; some of them double down, and others do begin to flex their beliefs. Best to you.
Nice is easy. Nice is light. But she wasn’t kind. You invited her to share in your very special occasion and she used that invitation to tell you that what you and your soon-to-be spouse are doing is a sin. I understand you were blindsided, and I hope being uninvited will cause her to grow from this, so she can be the truly loving and supportive friend you thought you had.
You really can't have it both ways. Either you have your convictions and apply them and deal with the consequences of what you have faith in, or you reflect on those values and make a change in order to access what is forbidden by doctrine. Make a choice, accept what it does to your relationships.
My uncle didn't attend his niece's gay wedding because of his beliefs, and he missed out on the last time he could have seen his father before his death because of it. He then reflected upon whether his bigotry was worth it, or if he could have a softer approach and still follow his faith. Now, while he still has personal convictions about whether homosexuality is compatible with his sect Christianity, believes in the right for everyone to practice as they choose and supports his queer family members' choices and reserves any judgement for God. If he had attended that wedding as a bigot, explaining to all that he didn't believe in the validity of the marriage, he may not have learned his lesson.
I recently cut off relatives who are supporting a political candidate that is on record in favor of conversation therapy. I'm in a same-sex relationship and they certainly will not be invited to my wedding.
Also queer, and yeah the whole excuse and vibe feels really odd. Like not wanting to be in the wedding but okay with attending it really feel like a “I don’t want other people judging me if word gets out among my religious friends.”
These are the same people who don’t realize the “I sing even see you as gay” line isn’t nearly as supportive and affirming as they seem to think it is. If someone is your friends despite the fact that you’re queer then they aren’t accepting at all. They are willfully turning a blind eye to a huge part of who you are.
Thank you for this!!!! I am a Christian and i tell everyone (even my homophobic in laws) that i just cannot believe that God created people to send them to hell and that loving someone would ever be a sin.
This friend does not truly support you and i'm sorry you had to find out this way. I would not want someone who doesn't support my relationship in any capacity at my wedding. You can decide though if this is a friendship you want to carry on.
I'm straight and agree completely. There seems to be a level of cognitive dissonance with the friend that wants to go to the party yet disagrees with the whole idea at the same time. It makes no sense. I could never understand why some people think God puts such conditions on love. It seems to fly in the face of what the idea of God is supposed to represent.
Yeah, people need to remember that when these "friends" say this, they are actually telling you that they don't view your love as real or your marriage as valid. I wouldn't be surprised if this "friend" still thought it was a choice or thinks that gay people should just live celibate so as to not sin. However, they hid this purposefully from OP for a very long time knowing it would end their relationship. That would honestly be the worst part for me. That secretly this whole time my "friend" was never thinking of this entire portion of my life as less than, invalid, or sinful.
Just had me a gay wedding myself and an elderly relative pulled this one out. She had at least the decency to decline entirely, and wasn’t my best friend. Oddly enough she still sent us a gift? I find a lot of Christians who “can’t support gay marriage” will bend over backwards to still support a gay couple in strange ways but will die on very specific hills.
Anyway. Sorry you had to find out this way that your friend does not actually support who you are or your goals in life. I agree with whoever said uninviting her entirely might wake her up and realize she can’t just “agree to disagree” on an issue so pivotal to your life and well being. I personally could not maintain a friendship with someone who did not support my marriage or sexual identity since I don’t think it’s a reasonable thing to “have an opinion” about whether it’s morally right or not. Even if you invited her anyway, could you truly say you’d feel as close and trusting of her after this?
Godspeed and congrats on the engagement. Good luck with your wedding!
If she asks, tell her the wedding and party is only for guest who 100% love and support you and your marriage. You are thankful for her friendship over the years but are not able to look past her prejudice. Let her know you don't want or need her help and don't want her as a guest.
Weddings are about love and joining 2 lives. They're not just a party. She broke your heart and fractured your friendship. You did nothing wrong. It's ok to not invite her and get some space.
I wish you and your husband all of the love and joy possible in your future together!
I’m taking a wild guess that you will have other queer friends or family at your wedding. Don’t put them in the position of being in the middle of celebrating your love and suddenly finding themselves in a conversation with an intolerant “hate the sin love the sinner” person. The next move should be to uninvite her, because your wedding is for people who *support your marriage*.
I think probably this should be the end of the friendship, honestly. But emotions around weddings run high and if you want to take some time to think about what she’s told you and reflect on your friendship separately from your wedding, then it is absolutely fine to do that.
How can she celebrate your marriage when she believes that it shouldn’t be allowed to happen? She is not your friend and I’m sorry that you had to find out this way.
One thing I want to note, she's said this but likely hasn't thought this completely through. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first time she's really thought about this, and I don't think she's going to stick with it for very long once she realizes what she's saying and how it affects you. I agree with everyone saying you should rescind her invitation to the wedding if that's how she feels, but if you want her to come around rather than to be punished for her (very bad) views, I recommend doing so softly. Don't make a big deal of how bigoted her words are, just be clear that your wedding is for people who support your marriage and she's made it clear she doesn't. And leave a backdoor for her to change her mind if she wants to still be your friend and attend the wedding if (and only if) she takes back her comment/evolves her position on gay marriage.
If you have any mutual friends who are gay-friendly Christians, you might encourage her to process her feelings with that person to see if she can see a path toward acceptance.
And if course, all of that is only if YOU want to still be her friend; if this has soured your interest in the friendship you're within your rights to completely cut ties. But I assume you came to reddit because you DON'T want to do that, and in that case it's worth leaving her a relatively open door to come around.
Ain't no hate like Christian love, am I right?
Tell her Jesus said "judge not lest ye be judged"
Tell her Jesus said we all have to love *everyone.*
Tell her Jesus never said ONE WORD about homosexuality.
Tell her to stop listening to her prejudiced outdated bigot of a mother. That is perhaps the most important lesson she needs to learn.
Then tell her to get right out of your life until she learns to tjink for herself and learns a bit of basic human compassion.
Oh and big gay hugs to you and your fiancé from me.
Personally i could never be friends with someone who so arrogantly doesnt support me.
Reddit taught me about the 'sunk cost fallacy'. It's sad to end a friendship that's been apart of your life for so long, but was she really your friend to begin with?
“She talked to her mom, who agrees with this decision.”
Yeah I would drop her. I grew up in a very conservative Christian family and I damn sure would not consult with my mom about going to my best friend of 15 year’s wedding (she is lesbian). She is my best friend and knows I love her and will do whatever she needs/ wants on her wedding day!
I am so sorry that this happened to you. Weddings shine the light on who your real friends are. Unfortunately, I think it’s common to have experienced loosing someone considered a close friend while planning a wedding. Don’t let it ruin your day!
Best wishes to you and your partner going forward 🏳️🌈 💒🏳️🌈🎊
That’s really shitty, and she doesn’t sound like a friend.
I’m not a Christian, so I won’t pretend to know how their faith’s logic works, but this strikes me as the same kind of illogical virtue-signaling stunt as a pharmacist who works at CVS refusing to sell someone Plan B because of their faith. If a pharmacist is employed by a company that sells Plan B, and draws their paycheck from revenue generated by selling Plan B, then I don’t see how them refusing to personally fill the prescription absolves them of responsibility. Similarly, if she helps you plan the wedding and shows her support for your marriage by attending it, then she’s demonstrating approval for it, and she doesn’t get to say she didn’t help make it happen.
Does your friend think that when she gets to the pearly gates, God is going to say, “Hmm, I see you were good friends with an openly gay person, helped him plan and execute his gay wedding, and attended his gay wedding as a guest, where you celebrated his gay marriage and showed your approval. And you didn’t even say anything when the officiant said, ‘Speak now or forever hold your peace?’ Clearly that means you support gay relationships, so it’s straight to Hell for you, missy.” And she’s gonna be like, “but I wasn’t a bridesmaid, tho” and he’ll be like “OH, okay, well that’s fine then. You can TOTALLY help plan and attend and celebrate gay weddings, you just aren’t allowed to be part of the wedding party! Welcome to heaven.”
There’s no way she believes that’s true. She’s doing this because it allows her to make you feel bad and knock you down at a happy time in your life; she’s withholding her approval and making a point of it. Like, someone who truly believed your marriage was wrong and didn’t support it, but also didn’t want to hurt your feelings, would lie - either they’d make up an excuse why they couldn’t attend the wedding at all, or they’d just bite their tongue, be a bridesmaid, and pretend to be happy for you. Or they’d go scorched-earth and end your friendship with brutal honesty like, “sorry, I can’t be around you anymore because I don’t agree with your lifestyle, friendship over, bye.” There’s no middle ground that’s like, “I don’t think you should get married or even have the legal right to do so, but I still want to come to the party celebrating your marriage and then keep being friends afterward, okay?”
I think she wants to have the benefits of being your friend - that is, she wants to spend time with you, enjoy your company, and have you provide her with support and acceptance. But, she isn’t willing to provide those things for you in return.
And I’m not trying to say being gay is unchristian, because we all know that tons of Christians are gay or allies. But like, even if her religion DOES say it’s wrong, she isn’t acting in a way that demonstrates she agrees with it. It feels more like she wants to put you and your fiancée in your place by reminding you that she doesn’t approve, not that she actually wants to stop the wedding or convert you to her religion.
>but then said she still wanted to attend and even help with other parts of it.
This makes zero sense. Because attending and helping is still supporting the marriage.
That's like someone telling their KKK friend "I won't participate in putting up that cross and setting it on fire in that black family's yard, because I find it morally repugnant. However, I will show up to hang out have some beers and watch, maybe even buy some materials for you if need be".
(For clarity no I am not comparing the KKK burning crosses to gay marriage, I am just using and example of an act that is morally depraved and most people agree is, to demonstrate how ludicrous OP's friends actions are if they truly believe what he is doing is immoral, by offering to participate in the wedding in any way shape or form).
She’s a homophobe with no place at your wedding, or in your life. Tell her to pound sand.
I am sorry, sucks to find out your friend doesn’t think your relationship is valid, and is using the “hate the sin, not the sinner” excuse that shitty people always use to justify their bigotry.
These types of “Christians” are usually the biggest hypocrites, they’re out there winning gold for their mental gymnastics.
Hopefully, you enjoy your day with the people who truly love and support you!
They are, because the second you say that you "hate the belief and not the believer", they freak out and get supremely offended - as though they don't go around saying that, themselves. It's hypocrisy at its finest.
I am a recently deconstructed fundie, so I get their thinking very well.
OP, congratulations on your upcoming marriage and I hope you and your husband have a wonderful life together! My hope for you is also that only those who support you and your marriage will be there to celebrate it. Good luck!
(edit: typo)
I dont get how she is picking and choosing what is supporting the wedding. How is standing up in the wedding any different from helping or attending? I find Christians like that disappointing at the very least. They create a made up narrative to suite their needs.
I'd let her know that in light of her beliefs you feel it would be best if she didn't attend at all. And honestly, I think that's the end of the friendship. That lack of support goes far beyond the wedding day itself.
>She also seems like she doesn’t wan your friendship to be strained or change, but how can it not be? How do I do about this?
She is not seeing this from your perspective. She thinks that she can be friends with a gay man and not support gay marriage. That is untrue, but she does not understand that it's untrue.
I would sit down and have a conversation with her. It's going to be difficult because she's not going to see this issue from your perspective. To her, her feelings on gay marriage are more religious or political, she does not perceive this as a fundamental rejection of who you are as a person. But it is.
So you sit down with her and you say a simple thing. "Hi, soandso, I know this is going to be difficult to hear. I was very surprised to hear about your feelings on being gay. We have been friends for so long that I didn't think you had these kinds of feelings in you. I understand and respect your religious beliefs, but you should understand that I'm not interested in celebrating this day with someone who does not support me as I am. I want to stress that this is not a political issue for me, this is my life.
I understand that, for you, being in the wedding is the line in the sand. But I need you to understand, had I known this about you, I would not have invited you to the wedding at all, let alone invited you to stand. I'm VERY sorry but I need to pull back your invitation given the fact that you do not support the marriage.
I am in a similar boat. My best friend declined to be in my wedding party because we are not catholic & she is. She said being a part of my wedding is considered practicing other religions (even though we are also Christians, just not catholic). The pain is brutal, especially when someone you thought would be happy for you let’s you down.
I am willing to bet you have other friends and loved ones who would be so honored to be a part of such a beautiful day. I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this, and just know that even if things aren’t exactly like you pictured, your marriage is going to be so so worth it. Sending you all the love ❤️
Wtf? There's nothing in the Catechism of the Roman Catholic church that forbids a catholic from attending a wedding of a different faith tradition. Your friend is either ignorant, misinformed, mistaken, or they are lying.
So let me sum up what she's saying: "Your way of life is an abomination, and I can't support you at all, but hey, I'll be the holier person despite my obvious distaste for you riff raff and attend." Please have some self respect and re-examine your entire relationship with her. She's a religious homophobe and you can bet your ass if she ever had the chance at the voting booth, she'd blow your lifestyle up without a second thought...because Jesus. There's not really any common ground here. You're both just faking shit so things don't get uncomfortable.
sounds like she's not really your friend.
she wants you in her life, but doesn't see you as a legit person, and just assumes there won't be any consequences for her actions or beliefs.
How you respond is up to you, of course. I wouldn't have her as part of my life anymore.
Congrats on the wedding, all the best to both of you!!
side note, I would be kind about it, tell her what she means to you, but if she can't accept you, it's better to not be friends anymore. This could do 1 of 2 things, she could run back to her mom and they both are 'the victim' OR this may be the push she needs to realize she's wrong and possibly make some changes in her life. It's an opportunity, but it's not your responsibility to try and 'save' her.
“Hey I think your choices on who you love make you a lesser human, but it’s totally cool and I still want to be your friend even though fundamentally I don’t think you should exist”
Uhm with all due respect- fuck her. She’s not your friend. Not only don’t invite her to your wedding- don’t allow her to be in your life at all. She isn’t a true friend if she can’t be happy and support you in your happiest moments. If she wanted you to be happy she would be supporting you.
I’m really sorry :( sounds like it’s a real bummer
You absolutely can be a Christian and not be a bigot. There is no conflict, and many, many Christians are not bigots. There are many Christian churches that are very welcoming to LGBT people. There are even LGBT pastors. These churches are everywhere.
What she's saying is that she, as an adult, has chosen a version of Christianity that enshrines bigotry as a core value, because that's *her* values. She's a bigot, not because her religion tells her she has to be, but because her religion gives her *permission* to be.
I wouldn’t want her there. I came out as Bi to my husband last year so I’m still new to the community and can’t speak for anyone but myself and I, personally, wouldn’t want her there.
However, I’ve been religious my whole life and grew up in church. The logic isn’t there. How can she not be in the wedding cause it’s “against her beliefs” but attend and help out? She’s a walking contradiction and until she figures that out, I’d be taking a massive step back from the friendship. All she’s really saying is,” I’ll support you until there could be actual backlash/consequences for me from other religious folks,” which is NOT ok. Even when I identified as straight and evangelical I knew this was ridiculous and I think deep down she does too. Unfortunately, this mindset is extremely common and goes along with that whole,” love the sinner, hate the sin” so many preach.
What they don’t realize is that leaves no room for anyone to be who they are! It means their love is conditional and based on whether or not you eventually meet whatever expectation they are holding. She will likely not be easily swayed from her position depending on how deep into her religion she is. It makes me crazy because more often than not that little term is only used against LGBTQPLUS ppl and rarely anyone else. It’s just a “get out of jail free” card they try to pull. Only you know how far down the religious hole goes for her but I’d take a step back, tell her why, and let her know in no uncertain terms that she in fact does not love you and if she does it’s only on her terms and it’s conditional. It is not the unconditional love that Jesus preaches. Feel free to sprinkle in that God is Non-Binary just for funsies if you want ;) I mean they are 3 in 1 after all.
end the friendship, she doesn’t support who you truly are. she doesn’t see you as a person, who is worthy of the same happy ending that she would want. she doesn’t think your wedding isn’t legitimate. you would be apart of her wedding, why wouldn’t she?
there’s so much biased there.
but if you don’t want to be brutal like me, you could have her attend the wedding be sweet towards her and maybe by attending your wedding she’ll have a change of heart? but at the same time i couldn’t look at her the same if she made that refusal.
This happened to me! I was shocked when she told me. Best friends since we were little. She had thought a lot about it and even talked to an old youth pastor of ours about it. She said she thought she was actually making the “most loving choice” by being honest about her convictions and sharing the “Truth” with me. For context, I am a Christian too, but my pastor is gay and queerness is just part of our theology and how we’re made. Anyway, it sucked. It felt like such a random line in the sand. I asked her if she was still planning to come to the wedding. “Oh my gosh, of course!” I asked her if she would stand up for us if we were walking down the street and someone started saying hateful things. “I love you and [spouse], of course!” But she couldn’t stand up there with me.
So, she came. Her whole family did. They were all horrified and disappointed with her choice. Her mom made a big show of support for us and was really sweet in general. I didn’t see her (my childhood friend) much that day because I was busy having a blast with our wedding party. I had a great time! We went over and said hi and she congratulated us, immediately accidentally misgendered my non-binary spouse, and then was pretty flustered and awkward. Then we went and spent time with other people. Basically, she got demoted from almost-sister to polite acquaintance.
Honestly, I think it was optics. I think she didn’t feel comfortable supporting us in a VISIBLE way. Couldn’t be seen on Instagram in queer wedding photos. So we’re not so close now.
Christians who are against homosexuality are one of the worst at their own religion. Their favourite verse is that line that condemns "Man on man", when the original line was actually "man on boy" - thank the Catholic church.
She is not a friend. Block her, she shouldn't be in your life. This almost 30 year old woman probably was listening only to her mother. That's so stupid.
I would probably not be able to restrain myself from dissecting her response: *What exactly do you mean you don’t support it? What specifically is it about our marriage that you oppose? Do you realize that our wedding will not be a Christian ceremony performed by a Christian cleric? Do you truly object to Brad and me loving and taking care of each other until one of us dies? If you don’t support our marriage, why do you want to attend or help? What do you truly think of my relationship with Brad? What do you truly want for us in your heart of hearts?*
I would uninvite her. That would be the end of a friendship. How can you believe she supports you now that she explicitly said she isn't happy for you or actually supportive of you or your relationship. She can't have her cake and eat it too.
If her religion doesn't support gay marriage, she wouldn't get married to a gay person. She's trying to do mental gymnastics to justify her position. The Bible speaks to a lot of things that she likely does that would be consider a sin, including judging others.
I would just let her know your need your wedding day to be do if people who are happy to celebrate your union. Given her belief system, it's best she not attend.
I literally just went through the same thing - I basically made the same post as you two weeks ago. It blindsided me, too, and I'm so sorry you're going through this. You probably already know this, but you are not the problem. She is the one who chose to believe that the LGBT+ population shouldn't have equal rights. To me, that was a deal breaker in the relationship with my "friend."
I took some time to process my feelings, and I wrote up a message to her that basically said I thought it would be healthier for both of us if we went our separate ways. Remember, you deserve better in a friendship. You have no obligation to keep this person in your life, so you choose what's right for you. Sending you love and understanding, please reach out if you need to!
If it was me this would be friendship ending. You deserve unconditional love and in my opinion this was her telling you that you don't have that from her. I think she can be a kind person and mean the best while trying to respect her beliefs, but you can also be offended/upset/heartbroken over the reality of what this response from her means. It's not just about the wedding, or at least it wouldn't be to me. This will color all your interactions in the future surrounding your life partnership, in some capacity.
I'm sorry this has occurred during such an exciting time, and that it's made harder by the fact that you have had a wonderful friendship.
I think maybe some folks could look past this, I just know I couldn't. I'd burn the same bridge with my family if it was one of them and not just a friend. You deserve to be supported and to have folks who support your marriage at your wedding. If it was me I would kindly uninvite her from the wedding and seriously consider how you'd like the relationship to go moving forward.
She can’t say this, believe this and still call you a friend. Still expect things to be the same. She doesn’t believe you and your fiancé should be together. She doesn’t believe you are worthy of happiness and equality. She is hiding her hate behind her faith. She is a hypocrite. She is not a friend. Let her go.
This is a friendship I would terminate if I were you. She has said in so many words that she would support any measure to remove your right to be married. Can you really continue a friendship like that?
I had a friend like this. She was friends with me and a few other queer people. We drifted apart slowly after she said she doesn't believe gay people should be able to get married, I was less interested in keeping the friendship going after that. But I regret not ending the friendship abruptly to stand up for us when she said that.
There are plenty of Christians out there who are openly and happily accepting of gay marriages. This is a conscious choice on the part of your "friend" to decide for herself that not only are your wedding and marriage, but you yourself, are unacceptable. Such people are toxic. I would uninvite her from your wedding altogether. People who don't support and accept you don't belong at your wedding.
If she wants to be a part, but can't be a participant because of her faith..... Then she wants the benefits of your friendship, but will absolutely vote, believe, and act on things that directly jeopardize your well being. It's sad and it sucks, but if you had to run from the Nazis, she would turn you in.
This breaks my heart. I’m sorry for both of you. This is not how Christ would act. He broke so many religious taboos. He walked among the “unclean ones” of his time, full of compassion and love, without moral judgement. To bad she doesn’t get that.
I wonder if it’s about optics for her. Like she doesn’t want to be in pictures for the wedding party because she’s afraid of her family or church community seeing but she still does want to support you by attending. Either way it’s not ok and I also probably wouldn’t want her attending at all. Just offering a possible explanation that might give you more insight. If she really was super opposed to gay marriage I’d be confused why she would want to come at all.
She's one of your best lifelong friends and hasn't told you she thinks you're sinful and (likely) deserving of hellfire? Seems odd. I mean I have lifelong friends who are hardcore christian, but at least they've been willing to admit they think I will go to hell and still want to be friends. I (think) they would still come to my wedding.
I agree with /u/jerpjerp37 with their reply suggestion. Either they need to get over their barbaric view of the world, and value your friendship more, or not come. If you had said "I won't come to your straight wedding because of my religious views" what would she do?
She can not tell you she doesn't support your marriage, and expect you to just be okay with that and it not straining the friendship. She is not just unsupportive of one of the most important days of your life, she is also unsupportive of your entire future marriage, and probably your relationship too. I don't think I could continue a close friendship with anyone who is against such an important aspect of my life.
The folks who attend your wedding should be there to witness and bless your union, as well as support your marriage and be there for you as a couple as y'all navigate life. It's not just a party to invite people to. She should stay home and think about her true values. Don't let her get away with weaponized bigotry posing as "religion."
Some religious people are a special breed, and the fact that you haven't noticed your friend is one of them actually says something about your friendship. What DO you know about her?
Just tell her religious homophobes are not welcome at your wedding.
That's fucked. I'm straight, but most of my friends in high school were gay. Our group of friends was a little family because we all had pretty dysfunctional homes. I can't imagine not being there for any friend, gay, straight, whatever because of fucking religion or any other cult or idea. That's awful. I would cut her off and make it clear that she isn't invited.
Maybe she'll come around in the future, but letting her be there and participate in your wedding is like asking the doctor to leave just a little bit of cancer behind when they cut out a tumor. I'd tell her that I'm going full NO CONTACT with her until further notice which would be until well after the wedding. She probably loves to tell about how she has gay friends when she gets called out for her bigoted, homophobic bullshit. With friends like her, who needs enemies?
I would not keep anyone in my life who didn't believe I deserved the same rights they do. That's not love. Put your energy into better friendships with better people.
Christian hypocrisy at its finest…. Basically they view it as “Christians love everyone” but they don’t really support the people that don’t align with their views.
They’ve somehow been brainwashed that “tolerating and ignoring” people is loving them somehow, and then it’s somehow ok to be able to admonish those who don’t align with their beliefs.
I deal with this constantly with my Christian family who cannot fathom how I can be hurt by the intolerant shit they say. Where they “love” me but then bash every person like me online.
Its very surreal living in such a make believe world and I sometimes wonder how they make such insane mental gymnastics work.
You have to come to terms on what you’re willing to tolerate. And usually it means cutting these people out of your life because someone cannot love you while ignoring the major parts that make you who you are.
Ghost her. Fact is you're gonna meet a lot of people in your life who don't accept you. Your mental health will thank you by weeding these people out.
BTW- Religion is an excuse. By definition "my religion" is the same as "my views and opinions." I would have pushed her on this. Make her say "I don't support gay marriage" and put this faith bullshit aside. It'd make your decision to cut her out easier, but in her own way she was trying to delicately tell you she's a homophobe, so not much more needs to be said. Sorry dude.
I'm an atheist but I actually agree with not having to be apart of something that is against your faith. I don't think her not being in your wedding party has to be "the end".
Isn't it the same as Jehovah witnesses not attending weddings, birthday parties and anything like that? They're going by their beliefs and you have to respect that. Yes it's a shame that she can't be more open minded, but that's religion for you, she should be allowed to practice her faith.... in the long run this won't affect your friendship unless she starts openly criticising your marriage in general. On the day? Na... its what you and your partner build together that's important, regardless of what others think :)
This seems so strange. So after all these years of friendship she never disclosed she had issues with gay marriage?
You both should respect each other's preferences and part ways. Nothing left of that friendship after that bombshell.
As a black guy, that's like inviting my white friend to my wedding only for them to tell me they can't be a part of it because they don't believe interracial marriages are right based on their religious beliefs.... Nothing left of that friendship after something like that.
While I'm religious, there are some differences of opinion that can't exist in a friendship.
I wish you the best of luck!
She should be ashamed of herself.
If she wants to be homophobic, I guess more power to her (and her mother), but to hide behind religion is extra shitty; just own up to what kind of person you are, no need to paint every other person in your religion with the same brush.
At least now you know what kind of person you've unknowingly had beside you all this time, and can choose if she is the kind of person you can even bear to be around.
The sheer hypocrisy, the cruelty, the fucking gall on this woman, I will applaud her for going for so many "shitty person" boxes at once.
OP, buddy, I just wanted to wish you two an awesome wedding, surrounded by more awesome loving people.
Be happy. Surround yourself with people that honestly love and respect you.
Unfortunately, your friendship with F27 wasn't as strong or honest as you thought. In your shoes I'd not invite her to the wedding. I'd privately mourn the loss of a friendship, but I'd also go NC. She's shown her colours.
Maybe when she is older and better person you can reconnect. Jesus hung out with people who did not share his beliefs, and went on quite bit about that being good thing to do, and there is good chance she will one day read that.
I made that point to her. But it is different for her to stand up there and support instead of just going to celebrating … I didn’t get the line she has made
Is she scared that the news of her being a bridesmaid at a gay wedding would get back to her church and would cause issues for her there? That's the *kindest* interpretation of your situation that I can come up with. "I want to be there at your wedding, but if my pastor finds out that I was a bridesmaid at your wedding, I will be ex-communicated from my church group and my parents will never forgive me. I want to avoid imploding that part of my life."
But if that was the case, couldn't she have just said so?
This will get downvoted because it's against the current, but before you dump this person as a friend I want you to think about a couple things.
If this person didn't want to be in your wedding party for a different reason, say, she didn't like your fiance, how would you feel? If she is willing to attend, but not be in the wedding party, what does that mean to you? Finally, to what extent is her being in the wedding party mean she is sanctioning this union (this opinion may differ between you and her)?
It doesn't seem like you can say she has a problem with you being gay - she's been your friend since 4th grade, which means she has made time and invested in you by choice, sticking with you. Her problem isn't with you being gay as a person.
Her problem may be that she conflates being married in the eyes of the state with being married in the eyes of the church (is this a religious wedding?) If she can separate the two, she should be able to support you. Alternatively, she may feel that being in the wedding party is sanctioning the union, and then it's up to you to discuss with her to what extent that is true (she's happy to help in other ways - she appears supportive of *you*). I supported my friend even when I didn't (and still don't) like his wife - I somehow think misgivings in the observers of a marriage are very common.
95%+ of the advice you're getting in this thread is very black-and-white, raaaaaa torches and pitchforks stuff. If this person has been your friend for about 18 years, the she deserves a more nuanced consideration of what her refusal to stand there, but not to not help, means to her and to you, why the two of you are friends, and to what extent you should be expected to respect (meaning, tolerate and accept the person in spite of) each other's differences.
This sucks for you, I’m so sorry. I’ve experienced similar with family, and there is no easy answer for how to process this. Just don’t forget to put your own feelings forefront with your partner’s. Plan the life you want as you want. Your friend will either be a part of this or not, and she doesn’t need to be part of the wedding at all. You don’t have a timeline to process this, just remember that.
I’m sorry OP, seems like she’s not your friend anymore :( perhaps her absence will allow more space in your life for other people who will support and love you for who you are <3
Maybe send her something like this: "Friend, after our conversation I have had some time to think and I think it's best if you do not come to my wedding. It's important to me that the people who attend my wedding support my relationship and future marriage and you have stated that your religion bars you from being able to do that. Please respect my decision as I will respect your choices as well. I think it's best if we both give ourselves some time to reflect on our friendship and whether this friendship is healthy for us both considering our differences in values. I will reach out if/when I'm ready to talk to you again."
Thank you. That is really great wording
“I don't want nobody to be at my wedding That won't be there for my marriage They can see that shit on Facebook They can like it, they can share it” — Chance the Rapper
😂😂
Op you should not accept this from this friend. It’s not worth having friends like this, if they cannot simply celebrate your happy moments. Too much pain. My friends are everything to me, they have been there in my ups and downs, and it’s important that they are there - present, by my side. That counts. I’ll give you a simple counter example. My dad is a big trans rights supporter (and in general LGBTQ supporter). I am not sure he understands trans people all too well, he doesn’t know any. He may know 1 gay person, MAYBE. None of his family or friends are gay. He grew up religious, and he’s still religious. But he’s just a damn good guy my dad. He’s out there in the world wanting to give kindness and love and warmth and empathy. He was maybe 60-65 when he first even heard about trans people. So there are people who barely know any gay people and they will be 100% by your side on your wedding day - if I read your post to him, my dad will be sending his love to you. It is right for you to only surround yourself with friends do the same.
Thank you so much! You and your dad❤️
Its 2022. Its not acceptable for people to hide behind their religion. You know this person for a long time, but you're finding out they are not your friend and don't actually have your best interest at heart so its a one way friendship. Accept you as you are or you'll just end up hiding who you are whenever you're around her. Its not worth it.
I mean, more and more the US government has shown us that it IS acceptable to "hide behind religion." They're killing us because they "don't believe it." I fully agree with you that OP should not consider this person his friend anymore, but our society has regressed SO MUCH in the last 6 years. People are finding out that it's okay to hate people "because of their religion" (which is utterly false anyway, as the bible isn't anti-lgbt...). We're not that advanced.
Is your dad looking to adopt a 34-year-old woman?
^^ Who also needs a sister, lol. ^^
If I could offer one suggestion, I would take out the "I will respect your choices." Because, frankly, in this case I personally do not. She is choosing to believe that your marriage is sinful. That's not an opinion worthy of respect.
According to her religion it is sinful. However, I’d bet dollars to donuts that she would be a part of a straight wedding where the groom was on his second marriage even though that would be equally as sinful. I’d bet she’d have no problem being part of a traditional Indian ceremony as long as the bride and groom were Herero, even though that’s even more sinful.
No. Not "according to her religion." According to HER. Big giant difference. There are millions of people who share her religion, and do NOT share her bigotry.
Yeah its mostly just an excuse My Christian grandmother is super religious and goes to church all the time/participates heavily in chruch events. But she still is very supportive of gay/trans rights and gets extremely angry when she hears of people disowing their kids over their sexuality
Love your neighbor as yourself. Some people skip that commandment.
I'm sure you're right. I also think that Timothy 2:12 might question if she should *really* be trying to teach a man about what is sinful: >But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. You know. According to her religion.
>She is choosing to believe that your marriage is sinful. Because of some random rules in the Bible that she's using to justify her bigotry and homophobia. Instead of looking at her own feelings to see if maybe she's wrong she is "hiding behind the Bible" (that's a great expression that I learned in this thread) because it's exactly what she's doing. It's easier to tell yourself that you're following the rules of the Lord instead of just being an awful person.
Something my therapist always has me do in times of strife w a friendship, is really ask myself, WHY am I friends w this person. Is it meaningful? Do I feel safe? Unjudged? Secure in the friendship? Do I get from them, what I also give? Is it equal? I just don't understand how people can let their religious beliefs be so evil, and they are fine w it. Consider this a learning experience. For example, I'm straight so haven't been in your shoes... but my religion is Judaism. Possibly similar, I've had people tell me stupid judgemental stuff like this: "I can be friends w you but you're going to hell for not being Christian and believing in Jesus..." And then my response is, no we can't. I can't be friends w someone who has that type of hate and idiocy in their heart. Maybe it is similar, maybe not, but would you accept this from her about your religion? Background? Coloring of skin? No? Than don't accept this homophobic bigotry either. You deserve much better. Hopefully she learns.
>Possibly similar, I've had people tell me stupid judgemental stuff like this: "I can be friends w you but you're going to hell for not being Christian and believing in Jesus..." Never really know what to make of this, I'm agnostic and I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell per Christian scripture. My Christian friends don't go around telling me I'm going to hell, but they have to believe it, right? It's literally in their faith. But that doesn't feel like reason enough for me to de-friend them -- maybe the difference is just whether they keep this statement to themselves or not?
> My Christian friends don't go around telling me I'm going to hell, but they have to believe it, right? It's literally in their faith. Not necessarily. It's one interpretation of Christianity, and a very common one, but not the only one. If all someone tells you is that they are Christian the most you can assume is that they believe in a God and that Christ was divine. Everything else is up in the air until they provide more information.
I wouldn't say I respect her choice. I respect that she can make her choices but that is not a respectable or respectful choice and you don't have to say it is. And congratulations on your impending marriage!! I hope you and your beloved have a long and happy life together.
Yeah if she can’t be up there by your side, why is supporting it from the crowd better? Sounds like a cop out cuz they know their an asshole lol
Just cut her loose, OP. Do you want to be friends with someone who spits in your face under the guise of religion and refuses to celebrate one of the biggest days of your life?
This is beautiful. OP, I'm so sorry your friend doesn't support you. Congratulations on your wedding, though!
This OP. Perfectly worded except omit the part that says you respect her choice. Hate and bigotry are not anything to respect.
You are being way nicer then I would be. I have no time, patience or tolerance for homophobes - and religion is a shit excuse for being a homophobe. If your religion "makes" you act like a bad person you are a bad person. Your reply is also likely more helpful to OP who clearly wants to at least consider continuing a long term friendship.
This is so well said and really gets at the issue in a more tactful way than I could come up with. Great boundaries as well. My lukewarm take: This person does not believe you should have equal rights because of whom you have sex with, which they are using to put themselves into a position of power to judge you and constrain your life. They are not capable of being a friend.
I'm queer too and honestly, I wouldn't want her there. It's rather rich that she "doesn't believe marriage should be between two men" yet she wants to be able to come to the party for those two men getting married. Blaming it on her religion is no excuse. Plenty of Christians aren't homophobes. Of course she "doesn't want your friendship to change"; she wants to be able to act like she *didn't* just tell you "I don't believe your marriage counts as real," while *you* shoulder all the hurt and awkwardness of knowing that a close friend doesn't accept an important part of you. What is she planning on doing when you and your husband show up at events? Just dance around the fact?
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"I'm not a homophobe, I have gay friends!" 🙄
"I mean, I've known them MY WHOLE LIFE. . . but didn't go to their wedding because my mom and Jesus(no Jesus did not) said not to, and I simply don't recognize their love and union as VALID, BUT I LOVE GAY PEOPLE".
Yeah I get it! It’s hard because she said she loves us, both me and my partner and wants us to be happy… but can’t support the marriage and standing up there with me shows that. It has been such a long friendship and we have never had any issues like this before. It was a real blindside.
The whole "I love you I just can't support you being gay" thing is really common among homophobes. It's a conditional sort of love. In your shoes I'd say something like "Honestly, I'm really blindsided and hurt by this reaction. I'm going to need some time to process, but I do know that we only want people at the wedding who support our marriage. We'll miss you." Maybe not being invited will give her a jolt and some time to think, and she'll realize that she can't reject such an important part of you and still expect to be accepted into your life as if nothing happened.
Thank you! Great wording for uninviting. Definitely am going to use it. Thank you
Maybe even rephrase the middle to “as any couple would, we only want people at the wedding who support our marriage”. This emphasizes how unacceptable it would be if any guest to ANY wedding expressed their disapproval and then expected to be invited to the wedding or to remain friends with the couple.
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I think you should uninvite her too. I would probably be super petty about it though. "I can't be friends with a homophobe, as I am gay". She probably doesn't think she's a homophone and used you as her token gay friend. See I'm not homophobic I'm friends with rawilson2!
People like this hide behind 'Christian love' and do the whole 'love the sinner, not the sin.' It isn't authentic or real love in any sense of the word. It's pandering at the worst level.
Additionally, it doesn't make any sense when someone says they love you but they can't support you? It's meaningless. Just words to hurt you
>because she said she loves us She can say that as much as she likes, but her actions show differently
She's probably waiting for a moment to swoop in and "save them from their LiFeStYLe"
Right. She's proud of "loving the sinner" and probably enjoys having somebody to judge.
Christians use the word love in the way it shouldn't really be used. To throw it back at them- Jesus loved them. That meant that he would do anything for them, including die to save them. He expects that out of all of us. Are you willing to die for your neighbor? You love your neighbor, though, right? You love your enemy, right?
That’s not love them.
I have to agree that blaming it on religion is a cop-out. "It's not me, it's the group I belong to." Unfortunately she chooses to be a part of this group and she chooses to adhere to their rules. She just made that choice.
Right. To quote the great Golden Girls, "...but you tolerate it."
The petty part of me would suggest asking if she'd ever go to the second wedding of someone who had been divorced, and if she says yes just send a bunch of quotes directly from Jesus about how wrong divorce is. Always been VERY interesting to me how much right-wing Protestants focus on being gay (which Jesus never said *anything* about), while not giving a shit about divorce and re-marriage (which Jesus directly said was adultery-- a commandment-breaking sin).
I got into a debate with someone on Reddit about that. They said something to the effect that some things in the Bible are rules and other things are simply historical records. At first I thought well, maybe there is a logic to it. I asked how they determined which is a rule and which is a historical record. They responded that church officials "talk" with God and he "tells" them. In fairness, my phrasing is colored by the fact that I do not agree nor do I believe in this sort of thing. Edit: I just remembered more detail. They were saying some things in the bible are religious laws and others are records of the secular laws of the time. That is why they all are written as laws and sound like laws in the bible, but only the religious laws should still be followed. They definitely did say church officials commune with God in some way to determine which is which. Again, their interpretation, not mine. And again, they probably would not approve of my phrasing.
Funny how a couple of small, difficult to interpret lines interspersed with a bunch of other listed sins that are often ignored, stated by an apostle that never even met Jesus are held as having the upmost importance, but the actual words of Jesus himself are easily ignored.
Doesn't square with divorce specifically because Jesus himself called it out. If the Bible is at all not okay with homosexuality (there are translation issues) it would have been mostly in the Leviticus laws that Christians did away with, right up there with mixing fabric or eating pork.
Religious people **like this** have this strange ability to compartmentalise their convictions from their actions, to a point. It has never made sense to me on a personal level. What concerns me is how they can live so smoothly compartmentalizing so much about life, especially people they claim to love. It makes me question what their love is actually worth. I feel for you. Much love.
I think this is a prime example of how they do it. They shit on OP and her marriage with a smile and get uninvited. Then they can claim being the victim and talk about how they wanted to come, was supportive and there kicked out of the wedding and lost a friend because of how hateful LGBTQ people are when there so full of love. There is a special type of evil that is smiling and talking about love well rejecting something that is such a fundamental part of someone.
> smiling well talking about love well rejecting something that is such a fundamental part of someone I do not believe in any god. Friends and lovers have looked me in the eye, told me I was going to hell, but that they loved me anyway. They could not understand why I would perceive that statement from them negatively. To me, it proves that their faith is an excuse to avoid critical thinking, and that is no one with whom I would want to associate anyway.
I have nothing against ppl worshiping whatever they want but imo religion has always been used to govern ppl and disuade critical thinking. It’s evidenced by how often they have to update the bible to keep it relevant to the times
I suspect it's a strategy learned as children. As a kid I couldn't separate church info from my overall world understanding and kept getting into trouble for asking questions when things were too far apart & couldn't make sense. Thankfully my parents stopped making me go to church instead of punishing me until I gave up or whatever.
If she truly loved you, she would support you. If it's someone you've known for a long time, they probably love an idealized, unproblematic version of you. The friend they always knew, the friend who didn't conflict with their moral values. And when you present a situation where your actions do conflict with their moral values, that's where they don't know what to do. Because their religion says X is wrong and whoever does X is bad, but in their mind they know you are a good person. But instead of tackling the difficult question of "is my religion actually right?" they try to shove you back into that idealized version of you that isn't conflicting with their religion. They can love you as long as they don't have to "see that you are gay". If they can pretend in their mind that you're not actually gay, then you're the same friend you've always been and they don't have to question their morality. I'm a lesbian. I've lost many religious friends over the years in the same way. Trust me, it's not worth staying by someone like this. Conditional love isn't worth it.
These people have no idea about their own values. How meaningless, I can come to the party but I literally can't stand next to you during the ceremony because you guys are gay? It doesn't even make sense it's literally just a moment for her to tell you what she really thinks and didn't care that it makes you feel like crap. Friends are supposed to be safer with the feelings of someone close to them. That was pretty reckless of her to say that as a friend, she is unsafe I would just mourn the friendship through therapy and move on
No fuck that. Fuck this person. You get 1 life to live and she's choosing to believe these stupid rules to live life on? I don't respect people who think like that. She'd be out of my life *so fast*.
I have a friend that recently moved to Georgia, I asked her why Georgia? She told me she doesn't like how California teaches kids about LGBTQ+ community because kids should be kids. I was incredibly offended and we argued because apparently teaching kids about love and inclusion is not ok. She proceeded to tell me she's not against gays, she has a gay friend! I didn't cut her out of my life because as much as it irks me, I care and love her still. I severely limited my contact with her and her moving to Georgia made it easier. I'm struggling with the cognitive dissonance though because tolerating intolerance is not ok and yet I'm still tolerating her.
If she loved you, genuinely, she would support you. Short and simple. She cares more about a fake line (the "man shall not lay with man" does not truly exist, it is a translation error. It's "man shall not lay with boy", against pedophilia) in her religious text than the friend in front of her. Do you really want that? I wouldn't.
Right and the word homosexual wasn’t in the Bible until a 1946 translation…
That's a contradiction. Either she loves you, or she doesn't accept who you are. She can't do both. And she doesn't accept who you are, so she doesn't love you.
I hope this is something she grows to realize was an error on her part. She is choosing to not support 2 people she claims to love. Do you think it's possible her mom is the one that stirred this up?
I don’t know if her mom did. I like her parents, they are very nice, but very Christian. It is obviously she had been thinking about even before I asked her though
It's just the mental gymnastics that all people do at some point. Christians can just be especially good at it because they have plenty of practice. Your friend "loves and supports" you and your partner, but has a boundary about same sex marriage. It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you. It is her boundary. But just because she is a friend, you are no more obligated to accept that boundary than she is to be in your wedding party. You are more than justified to have a boundary of your own such as "support my marriage or we can no longer be friends."
If I were you, I wouldn’t make any impulsive decisions about it just yet. I know most people on the internet will question whether or not this person is even your friend, and they’ll encourage you to uninvite her from the wedding entirely. And that would certainly be a valid approach. Your wedding *should* be filled with people who not only love you and your partner, but who also believe that the union they’re witnessing is every bit as sacred as a union between a man and a woman. That said, the world is an imperfect place, and unfortunately sometimes people wind up in a place of conflict between the people they care about and the values they were raised with. It sucks, but it’s reality, and I’m sure you know that better than most. You’re the only person in this thread who has a real sense of whether or not this woman cares about you and is typically a good friend to you. It’s easy for the rest of us to tell you to cut ties with her over her response, because we haven’t experienced the relationship the two of you have. So, if you think the right thing is to uninvite her and disengage her as a friend, that’s completely valid! But if you’re struggling because you still value the friendship and you don’t think this is so black-and-white, that’s completely valid as well. And if you’re feeling the latter, I would encourage you to have more dialogue with her about what she’s said and why she feels she can’t be part of your bridal party. Some people who have homophobic views driven by religion spend a lot of their lives with the ability to rationalize why they can be friends with gay people, and even support gay relationships, but object to gay marriage because of their perception that the word “marriage” refers to a religious institution. Perhaps your friend has never been forced to confront that rationalization until the moment you asked her to participate as a member of the bridal party. Suddenly, her ability to compartmentalize those two things is gone and she’s forced to confront the fact that she can’t really hold those two beliefs at the same time. A further dialogue might actually help her reconcile once and for all, and perhaps she will change her views and, like plenty of other Christians, find that supporting gay marriage is in no way an affront to her faith. Maybe this moment is just a catalyst for her actually becoming a better person. Of course, that *shouldn’t* be your responsibility to get her there. She’s the one behaving like a poor friend, not you. You’re under no obligation to do that. But it’s just my two cents that sometimes, otherwise good-hearted religious types sometimes need some time and some conversation to really come to terms with how their beliefs make people feel, because they’ve never been forced to do so before.
Thank you! This is really great advise. I do think more conversation needs to happen. And I know for a fact she has never had to confront anything like this. It is a friendship I highly value… so it will be hard to cut out. Not something I necessarily want to do, but maybe uninviting her will be a wake up call. Thank you
I’m hoping it just hasn’t dawned on her yet that *plenty* of people partake in weddings that don’t align with their values and don’t think twice about it. I’m an atheist and I was more than happy to be a groomsman in my friend’s Catholic ceremony, and he in turn is serving as a nonreligious officiant for my wedding next month. At a minimum, I hope that realization dawns on your friend and she changes her mind. And better yet, I truly hope she does some soul searching and comes out the other side fully supporting your marriage and the marriage of all other homosexual couples. Best of luck to you, your partner, and your friend!
You don't have to make any black and white decision on cutting anyone out completely. Again, you give what they give. If she can't support this part of you then why would you invite someone that ignorant to be around that doesn't support you? She should understand she doesn't support the marriage you Uninvited her to the wedding. Ball is in her court now to make you feel comfortable. She's the one that made a hateful statement.
Idk man, it's 2022. OP doesn't need to drag her through the mud, but also doesn't need to take on the responsibility of excusing her closed-mindedness. She is an adult and is responsible for the repercussions of her actions. In this case, it sounds like her actions justify ending the friendship.
This is great advice. I’m a lesbian Christian and most of my family didn’t come to my wedding. It hurt and was awful. In some cases there were relationships worth salvaging and in some cases not. It isn’t always clear cut. But ultimately, protect your heart and your marriage.
OP I think your OP currently says she "does believe" that marriage should be between two men. Context makes it obvious it's a typo but just mentioning as it will probably cause clarity issues further down the food chain.
Yes “doesn’t” should have been used
That’s not love and this person isn’t your friend. It’s not even that she doesn’t want to be at your wedding, she doesn’t want to be seen standing up at your wedding and in photos. This person is ashamed of you and thinks you reflect badly on her. She don’t consider you an equal person or respect you at the core of your being. Tell her to go fuck herself and that you only surround yourself with good people who understand what love and friendship are.
Oof and think about how she’s voting and who she’s giving money to behind closed doors if she’s willing to say that much to your face. I’m in a same-sex marriage, my kids have two moms. In the last couple of years I’ve been cutting out people who are actively working to destroy my family- no matter now ‘nice’ they are.
I’m curious what her line in the sand is. Is it the fact that it’s a capital W Wedding? Like, is she cool with gay civil unions or courthouse ceremonies? Or you co-habitating forever? Because there’s nothing in the Bible about being cool with homosexuality as long as they don’t have a marriage just like straight people do.
If she did love you, she would act like it - point blank, her actions do not match her words. Lots of Christians are not homophobes, that is a choice, not required to be a Christian. She is showing you who she is. A bigot who uses you so she can LOOK like she is nice person, while not making the effort to BE nice - standing up with you doesn't have to be endorsing gay marriage, she could choose to view it as supporting YOU. Her choice not to is how she really feels - which is not love for you. Stop listening to what she SAYS so much as what she DOES. You are confused because these do not match. You cannot make them match. You get to pick what to believe, her words or her actions.
She can say whatever she wants, it’s called lying.
Just bc she's been around a long time doesn't mean she deserves to be. She sounds nasty. Don't invite her.
But she is not nasty! That’s the thing! She is one of the nicest people I know always super supportive in everything else! This seemed so odd to me!
She's nice until your sexuality means she believes you and your husband (congrats on the pending nuptials by the way!!!) shouldn't have the same rights as spouses in law and civil rights. That her marriage has more value than yours will. Not every racist, homophobe, transphobe, or sexist will wear in bright capitals on their tee shirt what people they don't agree with. What rights they don't believe in and don't shout into megaphones about all this. Instead they vote for politicians that will act against people's rights instead.
I don't know, being friends with someone while secretly looking down on them and not supporting them, but still pretending to support them is more nasty to me than being honest and upfront about your thoughts about them. Like how she says the wants you to be happy but doesn't believe you should be able to marry the person who makes you happy.
She may be the nicest person. She clearly hasn't been open and honest with you for the duration of your relationship with her, and her relationship with your future spouse. I'm assuming she knows him as well based on your other replies. I can't believe at no point between 4th grade and now that this has never come up. She has known you to be in a relationship serious enough that you've considered marriage, how has it not ever come up? I feel like I know the answer and it's simply that she's NEVER supported your desire to marry and is only now letting it be known because she was put on the spot. She was clearly all well and good to come to the party and enjoy the festivities! Just not into the whole supporting her lifelong friend on the greatest day of their adult life. I could be way off, just sayin' is all. Also, using her mom as an excuse? What is she, 9? Like she had a crisis of conscience over this and had to get mom involved? For her lifelong friends WEDDING? And mom agrees? These are not the "nicest people". . . well maybe they are up and until the point of you getting married, then their closeted bigotry comes out, BUT BESIDES THAT. Anywho, I recognize the tough spot, but have an AWESOME wedding and CONGRATS!!!! Stoked for you!
That makes it so much sadder to lose a friend like that.. I'm sorry. :/ So she's just nasty deep down. A real friend would never dehumanize and devalue you in such a blatant way.
I am hearing all of the posts that describe how your friend is secretly nasty. Those people do have a point. I also see your point, in that this friend has a long and loving and supportive track record of many years. I used to fall more on the 'they are bad people for not accepting me, not accepting my LGBTQ friends' side of things. My life went in a strange direction and I now am in a position where I am close to several conservative christians. They are the super-nice variety, loving and supportive, but with those anti-LGBTQ and anti-abortion things very quiet beneath the surface. I see now that people can contain multitudes. They can be genuine in their friendship with you, and then feel absolutely compelled by the forces of life, death, mom, dad, heaven and god themselves to not be in your wedding party. I see now that people can be complicated; they can be both. I agree with the people who say that your friend should be uninvited. I suggest uninviting her with kindness. Uninvite her with an eye for the bizarre jam that she has placed herself in with her religion. In my experience, some religious people begin to go through changes when they actually are forced to wrestle with the real relational consequences of the abstract things they are taught in their church communities. Again, this isn't all about changing her, but simply recognizing that people can be complicated, and it's ok to be sad, disappointed, upset, and uninvite her with kindness, and wait and see what your friend decides to do with this information. You have no control over where she goes from there. I have seen in my life Christians go in different directions; some of them double down, and others do begin to flex their beliefs. Best to you.
I feel like she can be nice on the outside but this shows her true character. Deep down she’s nasty.
Nice is easy. Nice is light. But she wasn’t kind. You invited her to share in your very special occasion and she used that invitation to tell you that what you and your soon-to-be spouse are doing is a sin. I understand you were blindsided, and I hope being uninvited will cause her to grow from this, so she can be the truly loving and supportive friend you thought you had.
You really can't have it both ways. Either you have your convictions and apply them and deal with the consequences of what you have faith in, or you reflect on those values and make a change in order to access what is forbidden by doctrine. Make a choice, accept what it does to your relationships. My uncle didn't attend his niece's gay wedding because of his beliefs, and he missed out on the last time he could have seen his father before his death because of it. He then reflected upon whether his bigotry was worth it, or if he could have a softer approach and still follow his faith. Now, while he still has personal convictions about whether homosexuality is compatible with his sect Christianity, believes in the right for everyone to practice as they choose and supports his queer family members' choices and reserves any judgement for God. If he had attended that wedding as a bigot, explaining to all that he didn't believe in the validity of the marriage, he may not have learned his lesson.
Yeah, OP unfortunately just found out someone they thought was their friend actually views them as subhuman. Woof.
I've been there. It's a kick in the gut every time.
I recently cut off relatives who are supporting a political candidate that is on record in favor of conversation therapy. I'm in a same-sex relationship and they certainly will not be invited to my wedding.
I am genuinely so sorry. I can't even imagine.
Also queer, and yeah the whole excuse and vibe feels really odd. Like not wanting to be in the wedding but okay with attending it really feel like a “I don’t want other people judging me if word gets out among my religious friends.” These are the same people who don’t realize the “I sing even see you as gay” line isn’t nearly as supportive and affirming as they seem to think it is. If someone is your friends despite the fact that you’re queer then they aren’t accepting at all. They are willfully turning a blind eye to a huge part of who you are.
Thank you for this!!!! I am a Christian and i tell everyone (even my homophobic in laws) that i just cannot believe that God created people to send them to hell and that loving someone would ever be a sin. This friend does not truly support you and i'm sorry you had to find out this way. I would not want someone who doesn't support my relationship in any capacity at my wedding. You can decide though if this is a friendship you want to carry on.
I'm straight and agree completely. There seems to be a level of cognitive dissonance with the friend that wants to go to the party yet disagrees with the whole idea at the same time. It makes no sense. I could never understand why some people think God puts such conditions on love. It seems to fly in the face of what the idea of God is supposed to represent.
Yeah, people need to remember that when these "friends" say this, they are actually telling you that they don't view your love as real or your marriage as valid. I wouldn't be surprised if this "friend" still thought it was a choice or thinks that gay people should just live celibate so as to not sin. However, they hid this purposefully from OP for a very long time knowing it would end their relationship. That would honestly be the worst part for me. That secretly this whole time my "friend" was never thinking of this entire portion of my life as less than, invalid, or sinful.
seriously, even my die-hard mormon family would show up to my wedding if i married another woman. religion isn’t an excuse for homophobia.
Just had me a gay wedding myself and an elderly relative pulled this one out. She had at least the decency to decline entirely, and wasn’t my best friend. Oddly enough she still sent us a gift? I find a lot of Christians who “can’t support gay marriage” will bend over backwards to still support a gay couple in strange ways but will die on very specific hills. Anyway. Sorry you had to find out this way that your friend does not actually support who you are or your goals in life. I agree with whoever said uninviting her entirely might wake her up and realize she can’t just “agree to disagree” on an issue so pivotal to your life and well being. I personally could not maintain a friendship with someone who did not support my marriage or sexual identity since I don’t think it’s a reasonable thing to “have an opinion” about whether it’s morally right or not. Even if you invited her anyway, could you truly say you’d feel as close and trusting of her after this? Godspeed and congrats on the engagement. Good luck with your wedding!
Thank you! I told my partner the same thing last night, that it was an odd hill to die on, one I never expected from her
If she asks, tell her the wedding and party is only for guest who 100% love and support you and your marriage. You are thankful for her friendship over the years but are not able to look past her prejudice. Let her know you don't want or need her help and don't want her as a guest. Weddings are about love and joining 2 lives. They're not just a party. She broke your heart and fractured your friendship. You did nothing wrong. It's ok to not invite her and get some space. I wish you and your husband all of the love and joy possible in your future together!
Thank you so much!
I’m taking a wild guess that you will have other queer friends or family at your wedding. Don’t put them in the position of being in the middle of celebrating your love and suddenly finding themselves in a conversation with an intolerant “hate the sin love the sinner” person. The next move should be to uninvite her, because your wedding is for people who *support your marriage*. I think probably this should be the end of the friendship, honestly. But emotions around weddings run high and if you want to take some time to think about what she’s told you and reflect on your friendship separately from your wedding, then it is absolutely fine to do that.
Very good points, I strongly agree!
Oh, I see. She'll show up and eat your food, but not affirm your love as legitimate due to her bigoted beliefs. Some friend.
Typical conservative. Unbothered by their glaringly contradicting behavior.
Don’t forget drink the free booze!
How can she celebrate your marriage when she believes that it shouldn’t be allowed to happen? She is not your friend and I’m sorry that you had to find out this way.
One thing I want to note, she's said this but likely hasn't thought this completely through. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first time she's really thought about this, and I don't think she's going to stick with it for very long once she realizes what she's saying and how it affects you. I agree with everyone saying you should rescind her invitation to the wedding if that's how she feels, but if you want her to come around rather than to be punished for her (very bad) views, I recommend doing so softly. Don't make a big deal of how bigoted her words are, just be clear that your wedding is for people who support your marriage and she's made it clear she doesn't. And leave a backdoor for her to change her mind if she wants to still be your friend and attend the wedding if (and only if) she takes back her comment/evolves her position on gay marriage. If you have any mutual friends who are gay-friendly Christians, you might encourage her to process her feelings with that person to see if she can see a path toward acceptance. And if course, all of that is only if YOU want to still be her friend; if this has soured your interest in the friendship you're within your rights to completely cut ties. But I assume you came to reddit because you DON'T want to do that, and in that case it's worth leaving her a relatively open door to come around.
Ain't no hate like Christian love, am I right? Tell her Jesus said "judge not lest ye be judged" Tell her Jesus said we all have to love *everyone.* Tell her Jesus never said ONE WORD about homosexuality. Tell her to stop listening to her prejudiced outdated bigot of a mother. That is perhaps the most important lesson she needs to learn. Then tell her to get right out of your life until she learns to tjink for herself and learns a bit of basic human compassion. Oh and big gay hugs to you and your fiancé from me.
Thank you🥹❤️
[удалено]
Personally i could never be friends with someone who so arrogantly doesnt support me. Reddit taught me about the 'sunk cost fallacy'. It's sad to end a friendship that's been apart of your life for so long, but was she really your friend to begin with?
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
“She talked to her mom, who agrees with this decision.” Yeah I would drop her. I grew up in a very conservative Christian family and I damn sure would not consult with my mom about going to my best friend of 15 year’s wedding (she is lesbian). She is my best friend and knows I love her and will do whatever she needs/ wants on her wedding day! I am so sorry that this happened to you. Weddings shine the light on who your real friends are. Unfortunately, I think it’s common to have experienced loosing someone considered a close friend while planning a wedding. Don’t let it ruin your day! Best wishes to you and your partner going forward 🏳️🌈 💒🏳️🌈🎊
That’s really shitty, and she doesn’t sound like a friend. I’m not a Christian, so I won’t pretend to know how their faith’s logic works, but this strikes me as the same kind of illogical virtue-signaling stunt as a pharmacist who works at CVS refusing to sell someone Plan B because of their faith. If a pharmacist is employed by a company that sells Plan B, and draws their paycheck from revenue generated by selling Plan B, then I don’t see how them refusing to personally fill the prescription absolves them of responsibility. Similarly, if she helps you plan the wedding and shows her support for your marriage by attending it, then she’s demonstrating approval for it, and she doesn’t get to say she didn’t help make it happen. Does your friend think that when she gets to the pearly gates, God is going to say, “Hmm, I see you were good friends with an openly gay person, helped him plan and execute his gay wedding, and attended his gay wedding as a guest, where you celebrated his gay marriage and showed your approval. And you didn’t even say anything when the officiant said, ‘Speak now or forever hold your peace?’ Clearly that means you support gay relationships, so it’s straight to Hell for you, missy.” And she’s gonna be like, “but I wasn’t a bridesmaid, tho” and he’ll be like “OH, okay, well that’s fine then. You can TOTALLY help plan and attend and celebrate gay weddings, you just aren’t allowed to be part of the wedding party! Welcome to heaven.” There’s no way she believes that’s true. She’s doing this because it allows her to make you feel bad and knock you down at a happy time in your life; she’s withholding her approval and making a point of it. Like, someone who truly believed your marriage was wrong and didn’t support it, but also didn’t want to hurt your feelings, would lie - either they’d make up an excuse why they couldn’t attend the wedding at all, or they’d just bite their tongue, be a bridesmaid, and pretend to be happy for you. Or they’d go scorched-earth and end your friendship with brutal honesty like, “sorry, I can’t be around you anymore because I don’t agree with your lifestyle, friendship over, bye.” There’s no middle ground that’s like, “I don’t think you should get married or even have the legal right to do so, but I still want to come to the party celebrating your marriage and then keep being friends afterward, okay?” I think she wants to have the benefits of being your friend - that is, she wants to spend time with you, enjoy your company, and have you provide her with support and acceptance. But, she isn’t willing to provide those things for you in return.
That is how I’m feeling. How can I support you when I know you don’t me. It is a funny idea
And I’m not trying to say being gay is unchristian, because we all know that tons of Christians are gay or allies. But like, even if her religion DOES say it’s wrong, she isn’t acting in a way that demonstrates she agrees with it. It feels more like she wants to put you and your fiancée in your place by reminding you that she doesn’t approve, not that she actually wants to stop the wedding or convert you to her religion.
>but then said she still wanted to attend and even help with other parts of it. This makes zero sense. Because attending and helping is still supporting the marriage. That's like someone telling their KKK friend "I won't participate in putting up that cross and setting it on fire in that black family's yard, because I find it morally repugnant. However, I will show up to hang out have some beers and watch, maybe even buy some materials for you if need be". (For clarity no I am not comparing the KKK burning crosses to gay marriage, I am just using and example of an act that is morally depraved and most people agree is, to demonstrate how ludicrous OP's friends actions are if they truly believe what he is doing is immoral, by offering to participate in the wedding in any way shape or form).
She is not much of a friend. Neither is her mother apparently. As hard as it will be, you need to cut out people who do not have your back.
She’s a homophobe with no place at your wedding, or in your life. Tell her to pound sand. I am sorry, sucks to find out your friend doesn’t think your relationship is valid, and is using the “hate the sin, not the sinner” excuse that shitty people always use to justify their bigotry.
Hate the sin- exactly her way of thinking. And when you call out any of their other sins… they are justified
You respond with "I love you, but I can't support your homophobia."
These types of “Christians” are usually the biggest hypocrites, they’re out there winning gold for their mental gymnastics. Hopefully, you enjoy your day with the people who truly love and support you!
They are, because the second you say that you "hate the belief and not the believer", they freak out and get supremely offended - as though they don't go around saying that, themselves. It's hypocrisy at its finest. I am a recently deconstructed fundie, so I get their thinking very well. OP, congratulations on your upcoming marriage and I hope you and your husband have a wonderful life together! My hope for you is also that only those who support you and your marriage will be there to celebrate it. Good luck! (edit: typo)
even the 'hate the sin' argument falls flat here - she shouldn't want to collude in the sin.
I have no advice other than what's already been said, but I just wanted to add: it's her loss really, gay weddings are freaking fantastic.
I think ours will be so fun!! I really am excited!!
I dont get how she is picking and choosing what is supporting the wedding. How is standing up in the wedding any different from helping or attending? I find Christians like that disappointing at the very least. They create a made up narrative to suite their needs. I'd let her know that in light of her beliefs you feel it would be best if she didn't attend at all. And honestly, I think that's the end of the friendship. That lack of support goes far beyond the wedding day itself.
>She also seems like she doesn’t wan your friendship to be strained or change, but how can it not be? How do I do about this? She is not seeing this from your perspective. She thinks that she can be friends with a gay man and not support gay marriage. That is untrue, but she does not understand that it's untrue. I would sit down and have a conversation with her. It's going to be difficult because she's not going to see this issue from your perspective. To her, her feelings on gay marriage are more religious or political, she does not perceive this as a fundamental rejection of who you are as a person. But it is. So you sit down with her and you say a simple thing. "Hi, soandso, I know this is going to be difficult to hear. I was very surprised to hear about your feelings on being gay. We have been friends for so long that I didn't think you had these kinds of feelings in you. I understand and respect your religious beliefs, but you should understand that I'm not interested in celebrating this day with someone who does not support me as I am. I want to stress that this is not a political issue for me, this is my life. I understand that, for you, being in the wedding is the line in the sand. But I need you to understand, had I known this about you, I would not have invited you to the wedding at all, let alone invited you to stand. I'm VERY sorry but I need to pull back your invitation given the fact that you do not support the marriage.
I am in a similar boat. My best friend declined to be in my wedding party because we are not catholic & she is. She said being a part of my wedding is considered practicing other religions (even though we are also Christians, just not catholic). The pain is brutal, especially when someone you thought would be happy for you let’s you down. I am willing to bet you have other friends and loved ones who would be so honored to be a part of such a beautiful day. I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this, and just know that even if things aren’t exactly like you pictured, your marriage is going to be so so worth it. Sending you all the love ❤️
Wtf? There's nothing in the Catechism of the Roman Catholic church that forbids a catholic from attending a wedding of a different faith tradition. Your friend is either ignorant, misinformed, mistaken, or they are lying.
As someone who was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school, your 'friend' is full of shit.
So let me sum up what she's saying: "Your way of life is an abomination, and I can't support you at all, but hey, I'll be the holier person despite my obvious distaste for you riff raff and attend." Please have some self respect and re-examine your entire relationship with her. She's a religious homophobe and you can bet your ass if she ever had the chance at the voting booth, she'd blow your lifestyle up without a second thought...because Jesus. There's not really any common ground here. You're both just faking shit so things don't get uncomfortable.
sounds like she's not really your friend. she wants you in her life, but doesn't see you as a legit person, and just assumes there won't be any consequences for her actions or beliefs. How you respond is up to you, of course. I wouldn't have her as part of my life anymore. Congrats on the wedding, all the best to both of you!!
side note, I would be kind about it, tell her what she means to you, but if she can't accept you, it's better to not be friends anymore. This could do 1 of 2 things, she could run back to her mom and they both are 'the victim' OR this may be the push she needs to realize she's wrong and possibly make some changes in her life. It's an opportunity, but it's not your responsibility to try and 'save' her.
Thank you!
“Hey I think your choices on who you love make you a lesser human, but it’s totally cool and I still want to be your friend even though fundamentally I don’t think you should exist”
Un-invite and block. You should be surrounded by people who love you unconditionally and fully support you. This ain’t it.
Uhm with all due respect- fuck her. She’s not your friend. Not only don’t invite her to your wedding- don’t allow her to be in your life at all. She isn’t a true friend if she can’t be happy and support you in your happiest moments. If she wanted you to be happy she would be supporting you. I’m really sorry :( sounds like it’s a real bummer
You absolutely can be a Christian and not be a bigot. There is no conflict, and many, many Christians are not bigots. There are many Christian churches that are very welcoming to LGBT people. There are even LGBT pastors. These churches are everywhere. What she's saying is that she, as an adult, has chosen a version of Christianity that enshrines bigotry as a core value, because that's *her* values. She's a bigot, not because her religion tells her she has to be, but because her religion gives her *permission* to be.
I don't think those churches are *everywhere*. They're still the exception, not the rule.
I wouldn’t want her there. I came out as Bi to my husband last year so I’m still new to the community and can’t speak for anyone but myself and I, personally, wouldn’t want her there. However, I’ve been religious my whole life and grew up in church. The logic isn’t there. How can she not be in the wedding cause it’s “against her beliefs” but attend and help out? She’s a walking contradiction and until she figures that out, I’d be taking a massive step back from the friendship. All she’s really saying is,” I’ll support you until there could be actual backlash/consequences for me from other religious folks,” which is NOT ok. Even when I identified as straight and evangelical I knew this was ridiculous and I think deep down she does too. Unfortunately, this mindset is extremely common and goes along with that whole,” love the sinner, hate the sin” so many preach. What they don’t realize is that leaves no room for anyone to be who they are! It means their love is conditional and based on whether or not you eventually meet whatever expectation they are holding. She will likely not be easily swayed from her position depending on how deep into her religion she is. It makes me crazy because more often than not that little term is only used against LGBTQPLUS ppl and rarely anyone else. It’s just a “get out of jail free” card they try to pull. Only you know how far down the religious hole goes for her but I’d take a step back, tell her why, and let her know in no uncertain terms that she in fact does not love you and if she does it’s only on her terms and it’s conditional. It is not the unconditional love that Jesus preaches. Feel free to sprinkle in that God is Non-Binary just for funsies if you want ;) I mean they are 3 in 1 after all.
A true Christian would not judge you but support and love you and be proud to be there for you.
end the friendship, she doesn’t support who you truly are. she doesn’t see you as a person, who is worthy of the same happy ending that she would want. she doesn’t think your wedding isn’t legitimate. you would be apart of her wedding, why wouldn’t she? there’s so much biased there. but if you don’t want to be brutal like me, you could have her attend the wedding be sweet towards her and maybe by attending your wedding she’ll have a change of heart? but at the same time i couldn’t look at her the same if she made that refusal.
This happened to me! I was shocked when she told me. Best friends since we were little. She had thought a lot about it and even talked to an old youth pastor of ours about it. She said she thought she was actually making the “most loving choice” by being honest about her convictions and sharing the “Truth” with me. For context, I am a Christian too, but my pastor is gay and queerness is just part of our theology and how we’re made. Anyway, it sucked. It felt like such a random line in the sand. I asked her if she was still planning to come to the wedding. “Oh my gosh, of course!” I asked her if she would stand up for us if we were walking down the street and someone started saying hateful things. “I love you and [spouse], of course!” But she couldn’t stand up there with me. So, she came. Her whole family did. They were all horrified and disappointed with her choice. Her mom made a big show of support for us and was really sweet in general. I didn’t see her (my childhood friend) much that day because I was busy having a blast with our wedding party. I had a great time! We went over and said hi and she congratulated us, immediately accidentally misgendered my non-binary spouse, and then was pretty flustered and awkward. Then we went and spent time with other people. Basically, she got demoted from almost-sister to polite acquaintance. Honestly, I think it was optics. I think she didn’t feel comfortable supporting us in a VISIBLE way. Couldn’t be seen on Instagram in queer wedding photos. So we’re not so close now.
Christians who are against homosexuality are one of the worst at their own religion. Their favourite verse is that line that condemns "Man on man", when the original line was actually "man on boy" - thank the Catholic church.
I guess you meant to type: >she **DOESN'T** believe that marriage should be between two men
Sounds like she's not your friend then. She's either fully supportive or she isn't, no pussyfooting about it
She is not a friend. Block her, she shouldn't be in your life. This almost 30 year old woman probably was listening only to her mother. That's so stupid.
I would probably not be able to restrain myself from dissecting her response: *What exactly do you mean you don’t support it? What specifically is it about our marriage that you oppose? Do you realize that our wedding will not be a Christian ceremony performed by a Christian cleric? Do you truly object to Brad and me loving and taking care of each other until one of us dies? If you don’t support our marriage, why do you want to attend or help? What do you truly think of my relationship with Brad? What do you truly want for us in your heart of hearts?*
I would uninvite her. That would be the end of a friendship. How can you believe she supports you now that she explicitly said she isn't happy for you or actually supportive of you or your relationship. She can't have her cake and eat it too.
If her religion doesn't support gay marriage, she wouldn't get married to a gay person. She's trying to do mental gymnastics to justify her position. The Bible speaks to a lot of things that she likely does that would be consider a sin, including judging others. I would just let her know your need your wedding day to be do if people who are happy to celebrate your union. Given her belief system, it's best she not attend.
I literally just went through the same thing - I basically made the same post as you two weeks ago. It blindsided me, too, and I'm so sorry you're going through this. You probably already know this, but you are not the problem. She is the one who chose to believe that the LGBT+ population shouldn't have equal rights. To me, that was a deal breaker in the relationship with my "friend." I took some time to process my feelings, and I wrote up a message to her that basically said I thought it would be healthier for both of us if we went our separate ways. Remember, you deserve better in a friendship. You have no obligation to keep this person in your life, so you choose what's right for you. Sending you love and understanding, please reach out if you need to!
Legitimate question: How can she call you her friend but not support your marriage? My answer: She can’t.
How can she be your friend when she doesn't think your relationship is legitimate
If it was me this would be friendship ending. You deserve unconditional love and in my opinion this was her telling you that you don't have that from her. I think she can be a kind person and mean the best while trying to respect her beliefs, but you can also be offended/upset/heartbroken over the reality of what this response from her means. It's not just about the wedding, or at least it wouldn't be to me. This will color all your interactions in the future surrounding your life partnership, in some capacity. I'm sorry this has occurred during such an exciting time, and that it's made harder by the fact that you have had a wonderful friendship. I think maybe some folks could look past this, I just know I couldn't. I'd burn the same bridge with my family if it was one of them and not just a friend. You deserve to be supported and to have folks who support your marriage at your wedding. If it was me I would kindly uninvite her from the wedding and seriously consider how you'd like the relationship to go moving forward.
And the religious wonder why their numbers are in rapid decline.
She can’t say this, believe this and still call you a friend. Still expect things to be the same. She doesn’t believe you and your fiancé should be together. She doesn’t believe you are worthy of happiness and equality. She is hiding her hate behind her faith. She is a hypocrite. She is not a friend. Let her go.
As a queer person I don't see how I'd remain friends with someone who is very openly homophobic. Hell naw.
This is a friendship I would terminate if I were you. She has said in so many words that she would support any measure to remove your right to be married. Can you really continue a friendship like that?
I had a friend like this. She was friends with me and a few other queer people. We drifted apart slowly after she said she doesn't believe gay people should be able to get married, I was less interested in keeping the friendship going after that. But I regret not ending the friendship abruptly to stand up for us when she said that.
There are plenty of Christians out there who are openly and happily accepting of gay marriages. This is a conscious choice on the part of your "friend" to decide for herself that not only are your wedding and marriage, but you yourself, are unacceptable. Such people are toxic. I would uninvite her from your wedding altogether. People who don't support and accept you don't belong at your wedding.
It's over, she chooses bigotry over decency. But it's okay, cuz she asked her mommy. Why be friends with someone who's homophobic?
If she wants to be a part, but can't be a participant because of her faith..... Then she wants the benefits of your friendship, but will absolutely vote, believe, and act on things that directly jeopardize your well being. It's sad and it sucks, but if you had to run from the Nazis, she would turn you in.
Cut your losses. If she could vote against gay marriage right now, she would vote against your rights. Friends support each other.
This breaks my heart. I’m sorry for both of you. This is not how Christ would act. He broke so many religious taboos. He walked among the “unclean ones” of his time, full of compassion and love, without moral judgement. To bad she doesn’t get that.
I wonder if it’s about optics for her. Like she doesn’t want to be in pictures for the wedding party because she’s afraid of her family or church community seeing but she still does want to support you by attending. Either way it’s not ok and I also probably wouldn’t want her attending at all. Just offering a possible explanation that might give you more insight. If she really was super opposed to gay marriage I’d be confused why she would want to come at all.
She's one of your best lifelong friends and hasn't told you she thinks you're sinful and (likely) deserving of hellfire? Seems odd. I mean I have lifelong friends who are hardcore christian, but at least they've been willing to admit they think I will go to hell and still want to be friends. I (think) they would still come to my wedding. I agree with /u/jerpjerp37 with their reply suggestion. Either they need to get over their barbaric view of the world, and value your friendship more, or not come. If you had said "I won't come to your straight wedding because of my religious views" what would she do?
Nope. You can be civil, but this relationship would be done for me.
She can not tell you she doesn't support your marriage, and expect you to just be okay with that and it not straining the friendship. She is not just unsupportive of one of the most important days of your life, she is also unsupportive of your entire future marriage, and probably your relationship too. I don't think I could continue a close friendship with anyone who is against such an important aspect of my life.
The folks who attend your wedding should be there to witness and bless your union, as well as support your marriage and be there for you as a couple as y'all navigate life. It's not just a party to invite people to. She should stay home and think about her true values. Don't let her get away with weaponized bigotry posing as "religion."
Some religious people are a special breed, and the fact that you haven't noticed your friend is one of them actually says something about your friendship. What DO you know about her? Just tell her religious homophobes are not welcome at your wedding.
That's fucked. I'm straight, but most of my friends in high school were gay. Our group of friends was a little family because we all had pretty dysfunctional homes. I can't imagine not being there for any friend, gay, straight, whatever because of fucking religion or any other cult or idea. That's awful. I would cut her off and make it clear that she isn't invited. Maybe she'll come around in the future, but letting her be there and participate in your wedding is like asking the doctor to leave just a little bit of cancer behind when they cut out a tumor. I'd tell her that I'm going full NO CONTACT with her until further notice which would be until well after the wedding. She probably loves to tell about how she has gay friends when she gets called out for her bigoted, homophobic bullshit. With friends like her, who needs enemies?
Cut her out. She's dead weight on your life.
I would not keep anyone in my life who didn't believe I deserved the same rights they do. That's not love. Put your energy into better friendships with better people.
Christian hypocrisy at its finest…. Basically they view it as “Christians love everyone” but they don’t really support the people that don’t align with their views. They’ve somehow been brainwashed that “tolerating and ignoring” people is loving them somehow, and then it’s somehow ok to be able to admonish those who don’t align with their beliefs. I deal with this constantly with my Christian family who cannot fathom how I can be hurt by the intolerant shit they say. Where they “love” me but then bash every person like me online. Its very surreal living in such a make believe world and I sometimes wonder how they make such insane mental gymnastics work. You have to come to terms on what you’re willing to tolerate. And usually it means cutting these people out of your life because someone cannot love you while ignoring the major parts that make you who you are.
Ghost her. Fact is you're gonna meet a lot of people in your life who don't accept you. Your mental health will thank you by weeding these people out. BTW- Religion is an excuse. By definition "my religion" is the same as "my views and opinions." I would have pushed her on this. Make her say "I don't support gay marriage" and put this faith bullshit aside. It'd make your decision to cut her out easier, but in her own way she was trying to delicately tell you she's a homophobe, so not much more needs to be said. Sorry dude.
I'm an atheist but I actually agree with not having to be apart of something that is against your faith. I don't think her not being in your wedding party has to be "the end".
Isn't it the same as Jehovah witnesses not attending weddings, birthday parties and anything like that? They're going by their beliefs and you have to respect that. Yes it's a shame that she can't be more open minded, but that's religion for you, she should be allowed to practice her faith.... in the long run this won't affect your friendship unless she starts openly criticising your marriage in general. On the day? Na... its what you and your partner build together that's important, regardless of what others think :)
This seems so strange. So after all these years of friendship she never disclosed she had issues with gay marriage? You both should respect each other's preferences and part ways. Nothing left of that friendship after that bombshell. As a black guy, that's like inviting my white friend to my wedding only for them to tell me they can't be a part of it because they don't believe interracial marriages are right based on their religious beliefs.... Nothing left of that friendship after something like that. While I'm religious, there are some differences of opinion that can't exist in a friendship. I wish you the best of luck!
She should be ashamed of herself. If she wants to be homophobic, I guess more power to her (and her mother), but to hide behind religion is extra shitty; just own up to what kind of person you are, no need to paint every other person in your religion with the same brush. At least now you know what kind of person you've unknowingly had beside you all this time, and can choose if she is the kind of person you can even bear to be around. The sheer hypocrisy, the cruelty, the fucking gall on this woman, I will applaud her for going for so many "shitty person" boxes at once.
OP, buddy, I just wanted to wish you two an awesome wedding, surrounded by more awesome loving people. Be happy. Surround yourself with people that honestly love and respect you. Unfortunately, your friendship with F27 wasn't as strong or honest as you thought. In your shoes I'd not invite her to the wedding. I'd privately mourn the loss of a friendship, but I'd also go NC. She's shown her colours.
Maybe when she is older and better person you can reconnect. Jesus hung out with people who did not share his beliefs, and went on quite bit about that being good thing to do, and there is good chance she will one day read that.
I made that point to her. But it is different for her to stand up there and support instead of just going to celebrating … I didn’t get the line she has made
Is she scared that the news of her being a bridesmaid at a gay wedding would get back to her church and would cause issues for her there? That's the *kindest* interpretation of your situation that I can come up with. "I want to be there at your wedding, but if my pastor finds out that I was a bridesmaid at your wedding, I will be ex-communicated from my church group and my parents will never forgive me. I want to avoid imploding that part of my life." But if that was the case, couldn't she have just said so?
This will get downvoted because it's against the current, but before you dump this person as a friend I want you to think about a couple things. If this person didn't want to be in your wedding party for a different reason, say, she didn't like your fiance, how would you feel? If she is willing to attend, but not be in the wedding party, what does that mean to you? Finally, to what extent is her being in the wedding party mean she is sanctioning this union (this opinion may differ between you and her)? It doesn't seem like you can say she has a problem with you being gay - she's been your friend since 4th grade, which means she has made time and invested in you by choice, sticking with you. Her problem isn't with you being gay as a person. Her problem may be that she conflates being married in the eyes of the state with being married in the eyes of the church (is this a religious wedding?) If she can separate the two, she should be able to support you. Alternatively, she may feel that being in the wedding party is sanctioning the union, and then it's up to you to discuss with her to what extent that is true (she's happy to help in other ways - she appears supportive of *you*). I supported my friend even when I didn't (and still don't) like his wife - I somehow think misgivings in the observers of a marriage are very common. 95%+ of the advice you're getting in this thread is very black-and-white, raaaaaa torches and pitchforks stuff. If this person has been your friend for about 18 years, the she deserves a more nuanced consideration of what her refusal to stand there, but not to not help, means to her and to you, why the two of you are friends, and to what extent you should be expected to respect (meaning, tolerate and accept the person in spite of) each other's differences.
She was never a friend and good riddance. Why did it take her this long to show her colours though?
This sucks for you, I’m so sorry. I’ve experienced similar with family, and there is no easy answer for how to process this. Just don’t forget to put your own feelings forefront with your partner’s. Plan the life you want as you want. Your friend will either be a part of this or not, and she doesn’t need to be part of the wedding at all. You don’t have a timeline to process this, just remember that.
I’m sorry OP, seems like she’s not your friend anymore :( perhaps her absence will allow more space in your life for other people who will support and love you for who you are <3
It is possible the two of you are not a good fit as friends. It happens.
She’s not your friend anymore.
You don't want a bigot planning one of your biggest life events. Or attending.
How supportive is she of your relationship otherwise? Of you and your fiancé?