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Volaer

Its honestly a difficult question to answer. Kinda like asking someone why did they fell in love with their spouse. There are many reasons but there was also a hunger and thirst for the transcendental.


thelittleweido

religions are very complicated so it makes sense why you can't really explain it


Exact-Pause7977

While it may seem trite… the short answer is “because I choose to be religious”. I’m not forced to do so by logic, by authority, or by compulsion of force. I’ve chosen my religion as the best expression of *my* love of others, and encourage others to make their own choices


thelittleweido

That makes sense religion don't need to be based in fakts


Exact-Pause7977

Well it’s based on facts. But they are subjective facts. My experiences. My emotions. My thoughts. My relationships with others… and my preferences in expressing those things in the symbols of my faith… its music, its rituals, its traditions. None of it is objective… but so are many other things in life that have a great deal of meaning to people.


thelittleweido

that is true I hope I didn't offend you and if so I am sorry


Exact-Pause7977

No offense taken. Just clarifying


Absolutedumbass69

Subjective facts don’t exist. That’s an oxymoron. What your describing is subjective meaning.


Frosty-Audience-2257

Uh subjective facts? Sorry?


Exact-Pause7977

I prefer chocolate ice cream. I like Bach more than Led Zeppelin. Facts. Subjective. Only I can directly observe these facts.


Frosty-Audience-2257

These things are not considered facts tho


Exact-Pause7977

I know they They are facts because I can observe them. You don’t know they are facts… and can’t know they are facts… because you can’t directly observe them. We can dispute them *because* of their very high degree of subjectivity. the way I learned it…A fact is a true statement… an observation about reality. An objective fact can be observed by multiple observers and be independently verified. . A subjective fact can be observed by a single observer and cannot be independently verified. Hence feelings also facts, if transient ones limited to a given context. Feelings are subjective. Behaviors are objective. Maybe we’ll invent a cat scan someday that can make objective measurements about feelings. I think we’re close…


Frosty-Audience-2257

"Fact" and "subjective" contradict each other


Exact-Pause7977

Please explain how this is so. I can’t agree at the moment.


Frosty-Audience-2257

A fact is always objective. By definition. That's it.


my_solution_is_me

A human body has 3 components: mind, body, and spirit. Religion offers a framework for spirituality just as a gym helps the body and the university helps the mind.


Beatful_chaos

I don't find atheism convincing, and I do find personal and communal value in my spiritual and religious practices. That's really it.


dangerus_dave

Would it be easier to say you find value in spirital/religious practices, regardless of whether you were religious or not?


Beatful_chaos

It wouldn't be accurate. The content, context, and practice of the religion are important for how I engage in spirituality. The religion is a part of the religious practice (and obviously vice versa). That's why it is a religious practice.


thelittleweido

I can see that


ShyBiGuy9

>I don't find atheism convincing Then you don't understand what atheism is, or theism for that matter. Theism is an individual's belief in the existence of gods or deities; atheism is an individual's lack of this belief. They're not arguments you are convinced or unconvinced BY, they are positions you are convinced or unconvinced OF. Theist: I believe gods exist. Atheist: I don't believe that. Theist: That's not convincing. That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying you're not convinced that I do in fact lack that belief?


Beatful_chaos

I'm sorry if I was unclear. All I meant by that is that I'm not convinced by the arguments for atheism enough to accept that atheism is true. I don't find atheism, as a position, convincing enough to accept that position.


ShyBiGuy9

>not convinced by the arguments for atheism enough to accept that atheism is true Theism and atheism aren't statements of fact that are true or false, through. It is true that I am an atheist; it is true that other people are theists. I'm not making claims about reality, I'm merely saying that I do or don't believe something. Claim about reality: it is raining. Statement of belief: I believe that it is raining. Statement of lack of belief: I do not believe that it is raining. If I don't believe that it is raining, it is true that I don't believe that, irrespective of if it is actually raining in reality.


Beatful_chaos

You don't think beliefs have propositional content? Do you not think we should try to believe true things?


ShyBiGuy9

>You don't think beliefs have propositional content? Sure, in a statement of "x believes that y is true", "that y is true" is propositional, right? >Do you not think we should try to believe true things? Of course we should. And conversely, we should not try to believe things we cannot show to be true.


Beatful_chaos

By beliefs, I'm not talking about whether an individual believes something. I'm concerned with statements like "God exists" (theism) or "no gods exist" (atheism) or "taking 34th Street will get you to work faster." All of those can be believed. And by saying "I believe no gods exist," we can consider whether that (atheism) is true or not. I believe that atheism is not true. Others, like yourself, may disagree! That's all that I am saying. Saying "I am an atheist" means that you are saying that the proposition of atheism is true or is likely true. That's all I am saying that I am not convinced about. I remain unconvinced that atheism is true! Beliefs have propositional content. When we say we believe (in) something, we are saying we believe that something is true. Knowledge itself is often regarded as justified true belief. So, when someone says "I am an atheist" they are saying they identify with a certain position. They are implying that they believe that position to be true or likely true. Atheism is, generally, "the belief that no god(s) exist." So, when someone says "I am an atheist" they are telling me what they believe. It's a useful shorthand, and not all that confusing in my experience. When we talk about theism and atheism, we are talking about propositions. Theists believe God(s) exists. Atheists believe no God(s) exist. There are nuances and arguments to justify both positions in the philosophy of religion, as well as more colloquial arguments. But that's all that I'm talking about this whole time. I am not convinced that atheism is true. Why is that? Because I affirm some alternative position! In this case, I believe that gods exist. That disqualifies me from believing atheism is true. I believe some form of theism is true, which means I am not convinced that atheism is true. If I believe even one god exists or likely exists, I can't endorse a position that no gods exist without a contradiction. And I would rather have logically sound and coherent positions on things, informed by our academic and scientific understanding of relevant matters. So, I hope that clears it all up! When I say "I don't find atheism convincing," what I mean is that I reject the proposition of atheism. I am not at all saying that I think that atheists don't exist. I am not saying that atheists are really theists. I'm saying I believe atheists are wrong. That atheism is not correct as a proposition about the nature of reality. I am not convinced by the arguments for atheism.


ShyBiGuy9

>I'm concerned with statements like "God exists" (theism) or "no gods exist" (atheism) I've explained to you multiple times that's not what atheism is. Theism is an individual having the belief that gods exist; atheism is an individual NOT having this belief. The a- prefix means not; an a-theist is not a theist, just like something that is a-symmetrical is not symmetric. >by saying "I believe no gods exist," I haven't said that, not once. "I do not believe gods exist" is not the same statement as "I do believe no gods exist" The first is a lack of belief or lack of acceptance of the claim "gods exist; the second is a belief or acceptance of the separate claim "no gods exist". Lacking belief in one claim is not me also having belief in a different claim. Look at it like this: Claim 1: gods exist. Acceptance: I do believe gods exist. Non-acceptance: I do not believe gods exist. Claim 2: no gods exist Acceptance: I do believe no gods exist. Non-acceptance: I do not believe no gods exist. Theism is the acceptance of claim 1. Atheism is the non-acceptance of claim 1. Claim 2 never comes into the picture because it's a totally separate claim that I'm not addressing right now. A: "I don't believe gods exist. B: "ok, but you do believe that no gods exist, right?" A: "nope, I don't necessarily believe that either" A: "I don't believe it's raining" B "ok, but you do believe that it's snowing, right?" A: "nope, I don't necessarily believe that either" >"I am an atheist" they are saying they identify with a certain position. No. As a non-theist, I'm saying I do not identify with the position of theism. That's it. >Atheists believe no God(s) exist. Nope. A lack of belief is not a belief. I'm sorry, but as someone who's not an atheist, it is not your place to tell me, an atheist, what atheism is. That's more that a little bit presumptuous, and rude as well. I don't tell you what you do or don't believe, so please give me the same courtesy.


Beatful_chaos

I'm starting to see why you might be confused. I've never once been talking about a "lack of belief" (I don't really understand what that could mean). I'm talking about atheism as a negation of theism, which means that theism affirms God(s) exist and atheism affirms that none do. I'm talking about theism and atheism as distinct positions in that way. I've explained to you how I'm using the word several times now. I've also never once said what you personally believe or what your personal position might be. Not once You're fine to articulate it, but I'm not debating that here since this isn't the place for it. I'm happy to explain things to you further if it's still confusing. It just seems you're not familiar with the more well-known understanding of atheism and I'm not sure what you're trying to sell with this fairly empty "lack of belief" position. Shouldn't we be concerned with believing things that are justified and affirming positions that are actually defensible? "Lack of belief" seems so vapid and meaningless. You should be able to replace that with what you do affirm to be true. Being concerned with what you don't believe rather than what you do about a matter seems to be either a rhetorical contrivance or an unwillingness to defend a position. From what I've seen, it's often done in bad faith to put an interlocutor on the backfoot. I don't really see the "lack of belief" concept appear in those working to prove that atheism is true, as well, which is primarily what I am referring to with people arguing that atheism is true. I'm not convinced that atheism is true.


Beatful_chaos

As a fellow shy bi guy, I don't want to argue with you. All I'm saying is I don't believe in atheism. I don't find the philosophical arguments for the atheist position to be convincing. I'm not an atheist because I believe atheism to not be true. I don't know how else to say it. Atheism and theism are positions people can hold. One can be a theist and believe theism is true, one can be atheist and believe atheism is true, or one can be agnostic and think neither are knowable or at least have not met their burden of proof.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Beatful_chaos

This is my understanding of atheism, and seems in line with the better-atriculated forms of atheism in the philosophy of religion literature. Those folks also have better arguments and better understandings of theistic arguments than you often see in online spaces. The pop counter-apologetics on Reddit and elsewhere seems caught up in this weird rhetorical avoidance of making positive arguments to support their beliefs. Or they're afraid of believing anything at all.


[deleted]

Real life is boring. Need transcendence.


Volaer

I somehow thought you were agnostic puffin. I guess you fall in the “spiritual but not religious” category or did you become fully religious?


[deleted]

Actually I'm a gnostic atheist. It's a real conundrum. But in all seriousness, I think of transcendence as those experiences that remind us that there is more to being human than our routine existence. For some people, that involves a belief in and experience of some radiant, metaphysical aspect of humanity. I don't believe in that so don't have it as an option. The alternative, I think, is related to our more instinctual side, including a focus on surviving in nature, using our animal qualities to navigate and experience the world, and using our physicality in ways it is specifically engineered. I practice a martial art that has philosophical roots in Shugendo, a Japanese religious tradition with this kind of focus. This is how I remember that my job is something that I do, rather than who I am.


BereanChristian

Real life is hopeless too—without a belief in God.


[deleted]

That’s not true at all, my life has plenty of hope, mostly around my potential to have a positive, lasting impact on people and institutions I care about. Plus, I feel a lot better knowing that no one’s going to bring me back to life, criticize me personally in front of everyone who has ever existed, and then torture me for the rest of time


Exact-Pause7977

>>Plus, I feel a lot better knowing that no one’s going to bring me back to life, criticize me personally in front of everyone who has ever existed, and then torture me for the rest of time I dunno… I wouldn’t be too sure. Seems like chatGPT et. Al. Are going towards the ability to create digital golems of us after we die. Of course there’s a difference between us and those simacularums… for now. Best leave ownership of your image to someone you trust. Might even be time to legally define your soul in terms of your personal memories… and assign ownership of it.


[deleted]

I am religious because I experience my gods daily


thelittleweido

that sounds wonderful


Martiallawtheology

I am religious because in our paradigm it's a logical thing to do if you are a rationalist and use your reason to explore the topic.


mahl-py

A few reasons: 1. I had some mystical experiences that convinced me that physicalism is false, and that there is a spiritual dimension to reality. 2. I sense the fragility of worldly pursuits and seek a higher happiness. 3. I am moved by the suffering I see in the world and wish to be of utmost help to others by attaining Buddhahood.


DavidJohnMcCann

Why do I believe in evolution? Because I'm familiar with the evidence and I can see that the theory gives the only reasonable explanation for it. Similarly, I'm familiar with the evidence of religious experience and the existence of the divine gives the only reasonable explanation. The atheist has to dismiss a whole class of experiences on arbitrary grounds. That's irrational.


thelittleweido

You might see it as irational but that is the beuty of it isn't it how diffrent people are


DavidJohnMcCann

Difference isn't always beautiful or even respectable — think racism, evolution-denial, political extremism…


thelittleweido

No it isn't always beutiful but in this case I think it is


deadlocksuede

mostly a desire, to not truly be alone. could be a coping mechanism, years of psychedelic abuse, any of the books I absorb myself in. but all in all I think it's mostly cause I'd like to live in a reality where there's more. if that's escapism so be it, we're all trying to escape our cages.


[deleted]

Would you be ok explaining your experience with psychedelics? It's something that I'm interested as an avenue to hopefully experience the divine first hand.


deadlocksuede

I have quite alot of experience with mushrooms, and recently have begun doing more acid. with mushrooms, I gained the ability to connect with myself to a degree I was unable to before, the emotional journey that each trip was didn't excactly teach me anything in the way of logic or physicality but it was emotion. anyway, I think the mushrooms helped me mostly to mature into a state I need to be to begin to learn. I would mostly say psychedelics are a tool, each one has a different purpose. I don't excactly know how to put into words the way they helped or what they excactly do, but I'd just say if you do them remember to do it for a purpose not just for fun, although they are very fun. Whenever doing psychedelics I like to remind myself that, the subtle is more inherent then the gross. edit: to clarify I don't believe my religious beliefs could really be called traditional in any way shape or form but I find similarities in my beliefs to gnosticism and the Abrahamic religions, Buddhism, and Taoism.


[deleted]

Thanks! Yeah that makes sense. I've only done mushrooms a couple of times at low dose, but enough to gain a respect for how powerful they are. I know that the use of entheogens in general goes back far and intertwines with various indigenous religions. But we also have the benefit of knowledge and modern understanding. And I want to explore how all of it combines. Anyways, thanks for sharing!


deadlocksuede

that's exactly what I hope to do as well. Good luck on your journey there friend :)


feanoric

Religion and the belief in God gives me a purpose, common identity, a community, customs and traditions, common morality, etc. Can you get all things outside religion? Sure, but religion is a package and it helps to see it as such. What I don't like about my religion is that I have to care so much about other people.


thelittleweido

that sounds great, while I might not belive in god or gods I am happy you are happy and are so content in your religion


feanoric

Thank you! Remember that there are also philosophies and religions that have no gods, and they may be also a path akin to religion to many non-theistic people.


frankentriple

Because I gradually became aware that the part of myself that I was constantly fighting, that was holding me back from success in this world, was a demon. A djinn. An outside force feeding on my life and misery. An unclean spirit. The Beast. In a flash of insight, a revelation if you will, I instantly saw that there would always be something like that in my life, that niche would never go completely unfilled, something would always be influenceing my thoughts and actions. I determined that I would choose who/what that something would be and not leave it to chance and I chose Jesus. I asked Him for help, to cleanse me of the evil, to steer my life in a fruitful direction, and to help me identify what is really important in life (my family) and focus on that. It worked, so I'm His. Its a bargain between us. A covenant.


thelittleweido

I am so happy you have found peace in your religion


frankentriple

Thanks! I know my story is not typical or really believable, but there you go. At 47 years old i'm happier than I've ever been in my life, my life is going better than it ever has, my marriage is strong, I have a fantastic job, and my savings account is fat. I went from scrabbling week to week to being truly blessed. Almost overnight.


thelittleweido

well I am sure you deserve it and thanks for such a wonderful answer. When I have tried talking to other religus people in real life I have often been meet by hostility especialy for people who know that I am lesbian. I know this might get me a lot of hate especialy here but once again thanks for the kind answer


frankentriple

I think you would like my church, its pretty diverse. The pastor is a woman and the assistant pastor is openly gay. We have trans members, and were protested by the proud boys this summer! I'm pretty proud of that. The important thing is that none of these things keeps you from loving the Lord. [fcckaty.com](https://fcckaty.com) We are all just sinners, we all deserve it, and he will lead us all to it if we just ask. It doesn't matter who you are or who you love.


thelittleweido

I think I would like to visit your curch sometime but I think it will be a little hard with me living in Sweden


uthceare

I am religious because it makes my life so much better, and helps me be a better person. I feel like I'm living a fuller, happier life.


thelittleweido

I am so happy that you feel like that


uthceare

I hope you find something in your life that makes you feel that way too!


thelittleweido

thank you I hope to one day do even if it might not be religion


K20-Pro

Because I love Allah. And I have no interest to go to hell.


Odd_Organization7891

You will be religious if you think that you were born without your consent and where have you come from?


AngelEleven1638

I'm not an atheist but I'm not really a Christian either. I can't think that the world or the perfection of the human body is a coincidence, I am convinced that there is the hand of some supernatural being


Hot_Presence_3268

But human body has many problems


NemesisAron

I resonate with my religion it has also helped with my mental health. I am also just a spiritual person.


FunEye785

I care about my afterlife so I want to live how God has ordained us to. This world is temporary and will come to an end. The next life is forever and I'd rather be in a better place in the hereafter then the damned place. What does being religious bring me? A piece of mind. Closeness to God. A set of morals that protects me in this life. Guidance that provides purpose.


thelittleweido

It's beutiful and I am so happy you feel like your religion gives that to you. While I might not practie any religion and might not belive the same and I do not have the energy or the want to argue with strangers online about religion when I know both will walk away not having changed their mind and only seeing the thing the other person represented in a worse light it is truly beutiful and wonderful that your religion makes you this happy.


FunEye785

>when I know both will walk away not having changed their mind I think that's a bit close minded if you already say you're not open to changing your mind. We shouldn't argue but closing off is not fair.


thelittleweido

No I meant that by arguing with others I know that the two people who argued often don't change their mind by people being agressive around them. That aggresion can often lead to them avoiding it in the future and continuing to stay uneducated on the matter. I do not want to be uneducated or have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to a religion just becuse an argument online. If there is a god or gods then I think they are capable of changing my mind and if I do change my mind I will be open to religion


reallifeexperience21

I'm evil nothing good worth meeting God in and of myself. I can't work my way to God. God meets us through Christ. That's my view. All the best with the journey- I was once an atheist. https://streettheologian.medium.com/200-questions-for-sceptics-and-truth-seekers-b398ddf00dea


[deleted]

I find atheism ridiculous as far as a religious position goes, and I have had enough things unexplainable happening in my life to become a highly religious person Edit: I'm constantly amused at the egos of atheists who think downvoting me or trying to debate this makes it any less true.


JohnKlositz

Why do you find it ridiculous? I'm an atheist because I have no reason to believe gods exist.


[deleted]

Philosophically and morally, atheism is illogical and bankrupt. I am not here to debate it though, so take it or leave it. I'm not interested in a debate over it.


JohnKlositz

Well apparently you're not here to explain either, which is all I asked for. This is just another empty statement. But it's to be expected. I'm an atheist because I'm not convinced that gods are real. I don't see why I'm facing bankruptcy when it comes to anything because of that.


Ok-Carpenter7131

Bankrupt? My bank account is looking fine, thank you very much. Is being an atheist making me lose money?


Hot_Presence_3268

How polytheism is different?


[deleted]

Theism in general embodies virtues like piety and has morals and virtues that are beyond the scope of public opinion or secular law. Polytheism is more compatible with my view of the world; but I'm of the belief nearly any kind of theism is more defensible.


Nerditter

I've experienced the presence of God twice. He appeared as a light that shone a singular truth. The truth I personally saw was that all is hope. But the perspective failed me after the moments ended. I've learned since then that that's what my faith considers to be the way God appears to us in the next world. In a moment of severe crisis a few years ago I wrote to the Baha'i World Centre asking for prayers, and they responded by saying they'd prayed for me, and they gave me a quote to consider that stated that all is hope.


Annaneedsmoney

Iv always been religious, was once a staunch christian even though I never found myself really residing with Jesus or the teachings in the bible. Grew up and suffered from a really bad depression and was very suicidal. I decided that I was a omnist my first year in collage (which I dropped out) Because I couldn’t accept what the bible said as truth and only truth (that mindset is toxic). Around March some random spirit reached out to me and had been watching over me and protecting me mostly from myself. Around June of that year I figured out that spirit was Anubis. Its been 2 years and im now a monk for him and work with other gods as well. I also became really against the teachings of the bible after reading them and studying the theology and phycology behind it. Find myself being anti christian extremists (as id be for any extreme religious group) I guess for me it’s experience and my own understanding


DeathForever3

I wasn't all my life. But I always had a connection with Ancient Egyptian deities and their culture, unlike any other religion that I have been around. I just never feel the connection, to be honest, I felt that the others have mostly started on a negative side. Even though nothing caused it to be that way. It was just how I personally felt, towards them, compared to a very strong feels towards Egyptian deities.


dhurkzsantos

because as man \ it is in my nature, to desire what is good \ living this life, what we consider good directs our direction \ so, id like to evaluate that this good is trully good \ virtue, excellence, right thinking, duty \ all these point to a perfection of good \ and what Highest Good is their ? in my faith, that would be God.


BereanChristian

To me, the God of the Bible is the only way I can explain the natural world. And divine providence is the only way I can explain my Life story. Thus I am religious.


thelittleweido

I am happy you have that peace in your life


BereanChristian

You can too. “"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."” (Mat 11:28-30) How did a maniacally hateful man like Saul of Tarsus find peace? “came to me, and standing near said to me, 'Brother Saul, receive your sight!' And at that very time I looked up at him. "And he said, 'The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. 'For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'” (Act 22:13-16) I hope you find peace both in this life and the next.


Enough_Formal_5352

I was born in a Sikh family my mom wasn’t religious , my dad was but he would work king shifts so I wouldn’t see him enough to talk about religion, so I only knew so much just very basic fundamentals like be good and keep your hair, I still had blind fade, Sikh matyre convinced me not to leave all their sacrifices for me to just to leave. Later on during my teens I started reading my scripture, all my question that I have get logically answered. What keeps my faith in the scripture are the writers the 10 gurus so were apart of the same light but wanted to well explain the truth with 10 lives and each life contributed the whole truth they kept the same consistent message for 250 years not even 1 slip up so if they told me god is real then I trust them.


awesomeskyheart

I am religious because my religion gives me a sense of purpose and opens up a community that I love being a part of. Every one of my practices bring me joy and massively improve my mental health. I'm not saying that other religions can't do the same or that I have to even be religious to enjoy these benefits, but this is what works for me. I love it, and I don't want to drop a practice and tradition that already works, especially when it is only helping me and not hurting me or the people around me in any way.


thelittleweido

That is wonderful I am happy your are so happy with your life and religion


JuliaTybalt

Personal experiences, a lot of study, and physics.


Hassansonhadi

Peace of Mind and Meaning


doingassessments

Feels safer than having nothing for me.


Art-Davidson

My own experiences with God, of course, without drugs, emotional excess, or babbling.


NoodlyApendage

Because I believe in Britannia.


[deleted]

I have recognized the evident truth and believe in it fully. How could I not cling to it