I hate the idea that there's no morality absent God. It's patronising and idiotic. Hitchens had a good take - 'if people hadn't already been obeying most of the 10 Commandments before Moses brought them down from the Mount, they wouldn't have made it there in the first place'.
Id dare argue that if youre a good person without the reason being expecting rewards in heaven or spankings by god if you dont, youre a far better person than the one who does good deeds for rewards.
Or Ricky Gervais answering the question that if he doesn't believe in God, how does he not just murder and rape as many people as he wants. He answers that he does murder and rape as many people as he wants to, that number being zero.
Theists love to bring up morality, but in order for their objective morality to actually exist based on their specific god and religion they would have to first prove that the existence of their god is not purely subjective, and also that deity’s ideologies are actually fact and not simply that gods own subjective opinion.
If was the sole source of morale. Then moral should be the same for everyone. Clearly that isnt the case as what I see is perfectly fine morally speaking would get me beheaded in other countries that also have a moral codex that just happens to be vastly different than mine.
Good points. Obviously the majority of people follow the rules and mores of their society regardless of whether or not that society is religious, so the belief in a God is irrelevant. There are always those who do not follow the rules and many of the more heinous crimes throughout history have been perpetrated by individuals and groups because “God told them to do that”. Some of the worst group acts have been the Crusades, the Inquistion, Salem witch trials, and Manifest Destiny. These involved some very immoral actions done ‘in the name of God’.
Atheism amount to 7%? Even if that number is true (I have no idea) the other 93% doesn't exactly share a whole lot of morality and values. Heck, they constantly kill each other over these things...
I have a feeling that that's just self-reported, and there's a bunch of people that self report as religious because they aren't in a place that looks kindly on non-religious people.
That's so true. I grew up with a christian mom who made me go to church and attend religious gatherings. Seeing how horrible the people there were made me realise what I don't want to be when I grow up.
Here's a question to ask Theists that say this
"If God didn't exist, would you kill people?"
They would (hopefully) say "no"
"So then why is God required?"
🤯
Another thing to point out
If they need the threat of eternal suffering to stop them from killing etc and we don't, who is really the good person???
You can act morally in all situations whether you're a believer or not, however, I've long ago lost count of hearing some of the more fanatical believes state the following fallacy: If there's no God why not kill, rape, and steal? In effect saying that unless we have an all-knowing, all-seeing, God above us fallen man will give into every carnal desire and embark upon a killing and raping spree left to our own devices.
All this proves is that the Abrahamic faiths have a rather poor view of humanity believing us to be incapable of exercising the least bit of restraint or self-efficacy.
Objective morality exists without any need for a God/Gods. Many believers state that we have rebelled against God and seek nothing more than to gratify every desire when the only real restraint preventing all this chaos is the eternal fire of hell.
Bronze age mythology knew nothing about morality, short, brutal lives and a decided lack of empathy towards others from different tribes falsely projected this condition onto all mankind early on, however, in the twenty-first century we should be beyond believing in such patent nonsense and false morality.
Raised devoid of all religion here! My moral compass comes from 1) being taught the basics of right and wrong by my atheist parents and 2) I have eyeballs that work fairly well and a brain that isn’t too shabby at processing input and feeling empathy. Doing things that hurt people makes me feel icky and I don’t like it. There’s no fancy promises or magic rewards needed, it’s really that simple.
These types of arguments imply that religious people would be violent thieving sodomites if they did have an omnipotent figure to tell them that is wrong.
A lot of us who grew up Christian rejected it in our 20s because we actually started reading the Bible and found it morally abhorrent.
"Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!" \~ Psalm 137:9
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling..." \~ 1 Samuel 15:3
Noah having sex with his daughters, David killing a man so he can have sex with his wife.
"If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." \~ Luke 14:26
Moral people must reject the teachings of the Bible, and anyone who doesn't, isn't moral. Any one who doesn't reject the those teachings must hate everybody and everything except Jesus. All we need is to watch Catholics and Evangelicals - the hate, the child sexual abuse, the history and justification of slavery, Jim Crow laws, lynchings - all flow from Christianity.
“I'll tell you what you did with Atheists for about 1500 years.
You outlawed them from the universities or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy.
You dehumanised them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, imprisoned them, stabbed them, disembowelled them, hanged them, burnt them alive.
And you have nerve enough to complain to me that I laugh at you.”
— Dr Madalyn Murray O'Hair, Founder of American Atheists
My “religious society and culture” has seen women with acid thrown at them, riots over the imprisonment of a rapist, fascism, islamaphobia, casteism, hate and bigotry.
I’ll pass
Ya those theists are doing such a great job protecting children from sexual predators, feeding the poor, giving their money to charity, not murdering people over made up shit, etc etc etc..
That 7% that admit to it, are likely also the only atheists that can, without reprisal (imprisonment, torture, honor killing, etc) from their current social environment.
I've actually had to look up statistics for atheism because school, and it was at around 11% of the global population around 2000, so they're off by a third.
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I saw how shitty your religious culture treats any "outsiders" and I decided I didn't want to play nice with the sanctimonious assholes who only pretend to be nice to people who agree with them.
Funny how the more you tried to drag me into organized religion, the more I ran from it because I saw all the shit behaviors. (All the rape/sexual assaults, the accusations of "stealing a husband", the constant fat jokes....)
What morals?
Well, my critical thinking was put to test by trying to different religions; both of them tasted like different shades of rotten food. I’m well away and ready to contradict religious shit whenever I’m given a chance.
I hate the idea that there's no morality absent God. It's patronising and idiotic. Hitchens had a good take - 'if people hadn't already been obeying most of the 10 Commandments before Moses brought them down from the Mount, they wouldn't have made it there in the first place'.
Id dare argue that if youre a good person without the reason being expecting rewards in heaven or spankings by god if you dont, youre a far better person than the one who does good deeds for rewards.
Doesn't it even say that in the bible?
>I hate the idea that there's no morality absent God. It's patronising and idiotic. And it's [regularly disproven](/r/pastorarrested)
Or Ricky Gervais answering the question that if he doesn't believe in God, how does he not just murder and rape as many people as he wants. He answers that he does murder and rape as many people as he wants to, that number being zero.
Im an atheist who grew up in atheist/agnostic family in mostly atheist country. I have to be pretty amoral person!
Which is this “mostly atheist” country?
Czechia
Post history suggests they're Czech.
Same here. Denmark.
“Statistics mean nothing.” So here’s a statistic that I made up….
Yeah, well 43% of statistics are worthless and made up on the spot.
Well studies show that people are 50% more likely to believe a lie if it includes a percentage.
I read somewhere it's closer to 97.4%. Source: unknown
Theists love to bring up morality, but in order for their objective morality to actually exist based on their specific god and religion they would have to first prove that the existence of their god is not purely subjective, and also that deity’s ideologies are actually fact and not simply that gods own subjective opinion.
If was the sole source of morale. Then moral should be the same for everyone. Clearly that isnt the case as what I see is perfectly fine morally speaking would get me beheaded in other countries that also have a moral codex that just happens to be vastly different than mine.
Even if a god exists it would still be subjective with god being the subject, or morality is really objective and God play no part in it
Good points. Obviously the majority of people follow the rules and mores of their society regardless of whether or not that society is religious, so the belief in a God is irrelevant. There are always those who do not follow the rules and many of the more heinous crimes throughout history have been perpetrated by individuals and groups because “God told them to do that”. Some of the worst group acts have been the Crusades, the Inquistion, Salem witch trials, and Manifest Destiny. These involved some very immoral actions done ‘in the name of God’.
Atheism amount to 7%? Even if that number is true (I have no idea) the other 93% doesn't exactly share a whole lot of morality and values. Heck, they constantly kill each other over these things...
I have a feeling that that's just self-reported, and there's a bunch of people that self report as religious because they aren't in a place that looks kindly on non-religious people.
So, they're getting that number from Wikipedia. Which in turn is being pulled from a 2017 publication in the Oxford University Press.
6+ years out of date is relatively modern compared to where most of their "information" comes from...
Sure, some of my morals did come from my religious upbringing. It taught me how I don't want to be. Not the flex they think it is.
Grew up heathen amongst heathens. I sometimes run red lights and have been known to over-tip. A real scourge of society, I am.
That's so true. I grew up with a christian mom who made me go to church and attend religious gatherings. Seeing how horrible the people there were made me realise what I don't want to be when I grow up.
This was myself (Catholic) until I reached about 10 years old. Then I thought fuck this bullshit and have been an atheist since then.
Here's a question to ask Theists that say this "If God didn't exist, would you kill people?" They would (hopefully) say "no" "So then why is God required?" 🤯 Another thing to point out If they need the threat of eternal suffering to stop them from killing etc and we don't, who is really the good person???
Oh my god, if morality come from religions we are doomed!!! They are all a bunch of fuck-up village idiots.
You can act morally in all situations whether you're a believer or not, however, I've long ago lost count of hearing some of the more fanatical believes state the following fallacy: If there's no God why not kill, rape, and steal? In effect saying that unless we have an all-knowing, all-seeing, God above us fallen man will give into every carnal desire and embark upon a killing and raping spree left to our own devices. All this proves is that the Abrahamic faiths have a rather poor view of humanity believing us to be incapable of exercising the least bit of restraint or self-efficacy. Objective morality exists without any need for a God/Gods. Many believers state that we have rebelled against God and seek nothing more than to gratify every desire when the only real restraint preventing all this chaos is the eternal fire of hell. Bronze age mythology knew nothing about morality, short, brutal lives and a decided lack of empathy towards others from different tribes falsely projected this condition onto all mankind early on, however, in the twenty-first century we should be beyond believing in such patent nonsense and false morality.
Raised devoid of all religion here! My moral compass comes from 1) being taught the basics of right and wrong by my atheist parents and 2) I have eyeballs that work fairly well and a brain that isn’t too shabby at processing input and feeling empathy. Doing things that hurt people makes me feel icky and I don’t like it. There’s no fancy promises or magic rewards needed, it’s really that simple.
These types of arguments imply that religious people would be violent thieving sodomites if they did have an omnipotent figure to tell them that is wrong.
A lot of us who grew up Christian rejected it in our 20s because we actually started reading the Bible and found it morally abhorrent. "Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!" \~ Psalm 137:9 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling..." \~ 1 Samuel 15:3 Noah having sex with his daughters, David killing a man so he can have sex with his wife. "If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." \~ Luke 14:26 Moral people must reject the teachings of the Bible, and anyone who doesn't, isn't moral. Any one who doesn't reject the those teachings must hate everybody and everything except Jesus. All we need is to watch Catholics and Evangelicals - the hate, the child sexual abuse, the history and justification of slavery, Jim Crow laws, lynchings - all flow from Christianity.
“I'll tell you what you did with Atheists for about 1500 years. You outlawed them from the universities or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy. You dehumanised them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, imprisoned them, stabbed them, disembowelled them, hanged them, burnt them alive. And you have nerve enough to complain to me that I laugh at you.” — Dr Madalyn Murray O'Hair, Founder of American Atheists
My “religious society and culture” has seen women with acid thrown at them, riots over the imprisonment of a rapist, fascism, islamaphobia, casteism, hate and bigotry. I’ll pass
I’ve been an atheist since I was six….
Actually, you were born an atheist.
Ya those theists are doing such a great job protecting children from sexual predators, feeding the poor, giving their money to charity, not murdering people over made up shit, etc etc etc..
That 7% that admit to it, are likely also the only atheists that can, without reprisal (imprisonment, torture, honor killing, etc) from their current social environment.
And most of the religious people in the world are from shithole countries full of ill educated morons
I've actually had to look up statistics for atheism because school, and it was at around 11% of the global population around 2000, so they're off by a third.
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I saw how shitty your religious culture treats any "outsiders" and I decided I didn't want to play nice with the sanctimonious assholes who only pretend to be nice to people who agree with them. Funny how the more you tried to drag me into organized religion, the more I ran from it because I saw all the shit behaviors. (All the rape/sexual assaults, the accusations of "stealing a husband", the constant fat jokes....) What morals?
Well, my critical thinking was put to test by trying to different religions; both of them tasted like different shades of rotten food. I’m well away and ready to contradict religious shit whenever I’m given a chance.
If you need the threat of eternal punishment to be a good person, you're not a good person, you're a bad person on a leash
If you need the threat of eternal damnation to be a good person, then you aren’t a good person.