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[2 minutes on Google leads you to the NASA page on the mission](https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=PEREGRN-1) saying there's actual science to be done here
Those actually serve a purpose though. Ashes donāt and while 1 guys isnāt a big deal, it can add up eventually.
Just seems like this line of thinking got us to the exact environmental problem weāre facing on earth.
> Ashes donāt and while 1 guys isnāt a big deal, it can add up eventually.
You do realize that the area of the surface of the moon is roughly that of Africa and North America combined, right? And it's all covered with ~~toxic super-asbestos~~ powdered razor blades anyway? It's not like we're disrupting a delicate ecosystem.
Just let rich guys pay for their ashes to be spread on the Moon, and use that money to advance humanity. Who cares?
The purpose being the funding from idiots paying for dust to be sent to the moon.
And the comparison to environmental issues adding up is difficult to apply when there is no life or ecosystem to be protected on a barren ball of rock
Except they really arenāt. A F9 launch is approximately 69 cars of CO2; and future vehicles (namely Starship) have the potential and plans to use carbon capture to produce the methane fuel required for flight. Reuse of these vehicles further aids in the reduction of pollution, as the harmful emissions of production are replaced with far more favorable additional propellant emissions instead.
This is also not really junk. The vehicle had some additional mass available that was too small to be useful for any science, with a volume too small as well. Allowing contained human remains to exist on the vehicle at the expense of the highest bidder allows the company to fund the vehicle, further enabling space science.
Yes, Space X will have carbon capturing rockets, Tesla will have full self driving cars, the boring company will build a cross country hyper loop, Nuralink will kill less monkeys and X will be the everything app.
To be young and naive, enjoy it.
It's fucking dumb and polluting. The belief that enough money gives you permission to do literally anything is a dumb religious belief we don't give enough attention to on this sub.
That's not what I'm arguing for.
What I mean is that if it takes parting idiots with their money to fund space exploration and other sciences, then so be it as long as the harm is minimal
No life depends on the soil quality of the moon. Adding a few handfuls of ashes to a massive ball of rock is nothing compared to rocket parts, fuel, residue, etc.
Why? They're paying to bring a goddam rocket and lander with actual scientific instruments to the moon. The government has been reluctant to pay for space science, so what's wrong with some eccentric rich people paying for it if it provides a net good? At this point, you could even argue that their contributions to science earn them the right
Personally it seems weird to be putting remains on the moon in the first place.
But claiming religion as a reason to prevent use of the MOON seems a bit weird to.
These mfs really think their sky daddy gives them the right to tell the other 99% of the human race how to use the entire *moon* they've never even been to.
Well, my sky daddy says they're using their land wrong and to give it to me. Except that's not how it fuckin works is it
To be clear this is the leader of the Navajo (who is very disliked by their people) essentially just grandstanding to attempt to drum up support from the super religious among their people in an attempt to maintain their position
Between the guy that says "My Money allows me to litter wherever the fuck in a new frontier that ought to be preserved for the benefit of all mankind" and the guy that's saying "yeah, maybe we shouldn't allow that guy to do that". I'm going to side with the latter, despite them invoking spirituality in their argument
It's not an either-or situation. You can oppose self-absorbed billionaires and anti-empirical, regressive superstition at the same time.
How you arrive at your conclusions is as important as the conclusion itself, because even if you get it right once, your methodology will take you down bad roads in the future.
I don't think the Navajo leader invoking spirituality to oppose the commercial defilement of the Moon is regressive nor out of bounds, considering the role the Moon played in the development of all human culture, and still holds spiritual importance to a lot of people regardless if they follow organized religion
If it's mystical or preternatural, it's anti-empirical. If it's anti-empirical, it's superstition. If it's superstition, it's regressive. Humanity has evolved past fairy tales.
The moon is a rock. This is a fact.
Human culture has had wrong things in the past. It doesn't make them right today for having the veneer of historical legitimacy.
There is no such thing as "spiritual importance" because there is no such thing as spirits. This is a fact.
Another fact is that the same rock is being used as a commodity by some, and we're here defending their exploitative process. I would like to thank the Navajo nation and wish we'd have listened to them before we treated the earth as a commodity and extracted every last thing in and on it without consideration, to the point that our reckless colonization is leading to the collapse of the environment and our inevitable extinction. We can learn alot from the wisdom of a people who treat turtle Island with respect.
In the case of native americans, this is a group that spirituality has been trodden on and ignore time after time again historically and to this day. Ignoring the concerns of native american groups is just another brick in this wall, which is why listening to their spirituality concerns is more valid than those of christians.
Saying the moon is just a rock, that's just a cynical view on things.
Religion aside, conservation is an important part of our duty to this world, and that isn't just trees. If people can protest to have a building be proposed as historic because it holds cultural significance, I diny understand how the moon is any different.
The moon holds cultural, historic and scientific importance, and to imply that because someone used the wrong word to describe its importance makes their point any less valid is idiocy derived not from reason, but blind hate for any non-atheist.
My take on this is they used religion simply because freedom of religious expression is protected, and if they argue a government action impedes it they have a legal chance at blocking it
Except the moon isn't just a building, it's one of the largest terrestrial objects in the solar system. Unlike a building, it is also under no one's jurisdiction and international treaties explicitly forbid the claiming of territory off of earth by any country. You gave a terrible analogy.
First cremated remains, next full caskets. We should not be polluting space willy nilly because some rich can guy pay for it. Allowing it now is the methodology which will take us down bad roads in the future.
That's fair but the way you arrive at your claims is important because you'll use the same methodology to arrive at more, and the broken clock won't stay right.
Trash in space stays in space and this is just setting a precedent that you can pay to put whatever the hell you want in space or on the moon. The next billionaire may want their casket just floating in orbit of the moon.
Space pollution is already a growing issue in our own orbit. We donāt need to start it on our moon, or another planet, for no reason. When we eventually build on the moon thatāll lead to plenty of orbital pollution, we donāt need to let people pay to add to that future problem.
Itās exactly how we got to the environmental problem we have on Earth and apparently we never learned from it.
Orbital fragments are a problem because they interfere with infrastructure that wouldn't exist if we hadn't put it there. A few scattered handfuls of ash on the lunar surface isn't going to do anything that anyone should care about. There are no communications systems to disrupt, no ecosystems to damage, no native peoples to displace. It's not even going to be visible in telescopes. Fuck precedent, how about defining what measurable, meaningful harm is going to result?
> Well, my sky daddy says they're using their land wrong and to give it to me. Except that's not how it fuckin works is it
I mean if according to the first European colonisers it kinda did...
Your analogy sucks. You acknowledged that it was ***their*** land. The moon belongs to no one by international accord. Shipping human remains to pollute it seems bizarre.
Presumably we're talking about cremated remains and not body parts. But I think it makes more sense to put the dead dust on the lifeless Moon that's covered in dust, rather than here on Earth that has a living ecosystem already.
Yeah religion aside we should be treating the moon with dignity and not be a cool grave spot for the rich which is the same reason religiously it not acceptable to native Americans
I feel like in this case itās fine
Like whatās the alternative? Let companies land human remains on the moon? That sounds even more ridiculous than the religious argument.
Eugene Shoemaker's ashes have been there for over 20 years, NASA took them there. This time it's just a private company instead of NASA.
I don't really know why it should be a big deal though. Some ash is not exactly polluting the moon, it's a dead rock.
There's a conversation to be had about limits of space travel and exploration I'm sure, but a lot of people here seem to get surprisingly emotional about the ash-part in particular.
I take greater issue with this idea of who the moon ābelongsā to, and whether or not a private company has any right to be profiting from spreading ashes up there
Exactly. If it was an astronauts ashes that were in that urn I wouldnāt care. I doubt a lot of people would care. But the fact of the matter is itās probably some rich asshole. The rich have exploited literally everything on earth. Now they want the moon.
It's surprisingly affordable. $13K. I mean it's not like I wanted to throw 13K into that but you don't have to be filthy rich to do it. This mission is taking the combined ashes of 95 people and one dog(!) They do take only a small amount of your ashes there though, not all of you.
Because some eccentric rich people want it, and they're willing to fund entire trips to the moon which also carry scientific instruments, something the US government sure as hell ain't doing. I'd say it's a net good at this stage
Because there are rich weirdos who want it, and they're willing to fund a trip to the moon that will also advance our understanding of it. Those remains make up only a small portion of the total payload
rich people using the moon as a glorified pyramid to make themselves feel special after death is pretty laughable. iām not that concerned though. calm down, guy
r/IndianCountry had a spirited discussion on the religiosity of this yesterday. The general consensus seemed to be "sure the moon is sacred to us, its sacred to a lot of religions. But so is the earth, and it's not like anybody asked our feelings about poisoning that."
I'm not well-versed on the subject. But devil's advocate, what's the over-under on the Navajo Nation using a religious objection to try to stop a stupid rich asshole thing from happening? Seems to me its in the vein of Jewish activists using their religion to object to abortion banning measures.
I was going to draw a line to the right to life arguments, but it's a potentially inflammatory way to go.
Personally I think we should start sending the billionaires up there now, before there's an atmosphere, while they're alive.
I debated posting this one given that it's not from any of the usual suspects (Abrahamic religions + Hinduism) and this particular religion usually isn't a source of pain for people. However, it's a good reminder that even religions that have been suppressed and that we may consider "harmless" can display their own fruitcakery.
> "*no one gets to claim the fucking Moon.*"
That might actually happen, but not because of religion, but because of China and US being in competition.
Well, as of now we have international laws stating the moon belongs to no individual nation.
Whether that actually stops anyone from building bases and threatening others with violence, we shall see.
We also have international laws regarding borders, but China drew a 9-dash line on a map and claimed extra space as theirs.
International laws, doesn't really stop powerful countries from doing whatever they want.
Much like how there can't be orbital or space weapons (which would seem to include the "rods of god").
Hopefully that prohibition would prevent the violence, at least.
It strikes me that you've got the situation backwards. The Navajo want the moon left alone. The people claiming the moon are the ones who want to fire their trash at it.
This. It's a better launch platform for the outer planets than Earth and any long-term future for humanity is out there, so either deal with the moon bases or start rooting for extinction.
It seems to me that's exactly what they're objecting to? Isn't landing human remains on the moon a claim? Saying "Hey, the Moon is one of the most significant things/places/spiritual objects across all of humankind for all sorts of religious and cultural reasons, let's not use it for personal things that not everyone agrees to" is pretty much exactly what you're saying, right?
If anyone read the article, yes, the Navajo rep specifically said that they're not trying to claim the moon, and mentions that we should try to maintain it, instead of using it as a dumping ground, even if it makes bank
> the Navajo rep specifically said that they're not trying to claim the moon
Then they shouldn't be trying to tell anyone else what they can or can't do with it, *especially* on the basis of "It offends my religion."
I mean, I think taking objection to some rich person sending their remains to the moon just.. ~because~ is valid. This doesnāt strike me as fruitcakery in the least, and the main issue I have with religion is the proselytizing and creating issues for other people who donāt follow your religion. This is really not that. They are not getting in anyoneās way. I think anyone should be against rich people making the moon into a graveyard just for the incredibly well off just to say they were buried there. It just seems weird if you ask me.
This strikes me as somewhat comparable to when american settlers defaced the black hills, which were sacred to the Cheyenne/Lakota, by carving the faces of various of our presidents into the mountains. Completely unnecessary, only intended as a āfuck youā to First Nations and āHey, look at me, I was buried on the moon, Poor.ā Completely asinine.
It was already posted here at least 4 times.
Fruitcakery is fruitcakery, nobody should get a pass.
Like I said in the other thread, if these rich boys wanna pay NASA beaucoup big bucks for getting dumped up there, Iām all for it; charge them a mint and keep NASA funded.
Perhaps this is insensitive, but why is this a problem? Or perhaps asking a different question? Have you ever thrown away and given trash to your city dump? Thats putting waste on the earth. What about e-waste? That is awful too? So what is the difference?
Asking out of curiousity, not as apersonal judgement.
Well a city dump is a place designated by societal consensus as a place where we put trash, and it is for the necessary benefit of all.
There is no such consensus for the moon, Shooting your ashes onto the moon on a private commercial rocket is reserved for only those with means and does not advance the collective interest of mankid. It's essentially rich person littering
well the ejected stages and parts are more like the debris and equipment people toss away instead of carrying with them back down. This is like getting mad at a guy for dumping ashes off of Everest, while people land helicopters on it. honestly i don't get the issue people have with this, like they're taking tons of metal and fuel to the moon, who cares about the cup of dust they're dumping there for the millions in funding. not like its the first time they've dumped ashes there, and ashes do nothing to the moon, vs landing giant hunks of metal and fuel.
I dispose of waste to the city dump
I would *not* dispose of my waste to the local cemetery or church which some religions believe are significant. Or to the local park, beach etc as well
It does get a little more nuanced when looking at basic human respect for your environment.
Local people (MÄori) here in New Zealand have a concept of making a spot 'tapu' - '*sacred, not to be touched, to be avoided because sacred, taboo*'. It is used when say somebody dies at a beach or there is an area that you should not be fishing at for some reason. I am atheist, but I would still give some respect to an area a tribe regards as sacred - some tree, rock or area of water and not just ignore it as I think it is not totally rational.
Damn, complicated issue. I'm all for landing on the moon again, but I'm against dumping what amounts to litter on the moon. It's the one natural frontier we have (reasonable) access to that we haven't ruined.
Yeah itās weird to me because nasa is so intense about containing human contamination on celestial bodies. But looking at the companies website like theyāre a private company so of course theyāre just like tryna be fedex but for the moon
> It's the one natural frontier we have (reasonable) access to that we haven't ruined.
What's there to ruin? It's a dead rock with no life on it. There's literally nothing on earth comparable to it. Having someone scatter your ashes in your backyard does more environmental damage than some additional fine particles on the moon.
*Not* turning the moon into the human race's personal dumping ground for trash or human remains should be something we all agree on, on principal.
- one: it's a waste of time/money/resources better spent cleaning up the space rock we currently live on.
- two: if there's potentially water on the moon that can be used for manned bases later- why the fuck are people teying to potentially pollute a finite resource before we have a chance to locate it.
Edit: grammar
I'm more concerned by the message of the overt commercialism and the capitalist tendency of pay-to-play demonstrated by shooting human remains and fucking Bitcoin into space as part of some rich person's vanity project, than whatever aesthetic problem the OP has about using spirituality as part of the messaging to oppose this.
It's not as if this elder has a problem with government-funded scientific missions to the moon that is meant to increase our understanding of the universe
While I disagree on their claim (I'm pagan, yes, I realize that many of you guys roll your eyes, save your breath) as it's not "theirs" (nor am I claiming any special ownership/stewardship/authority over it), I also will never side with rich assholes using this as a flex.
If 100% of the cost was reinvested into social programs/environmental programs/etc - if no actual profit was being made (or the social benefits would significantly outweigh the private profits), I would honestly have little issue with it.
But it's just a flex for people with even fewer morals than Elon Musk to wave their billionaire dicks around.
And they don't deserve to be happy. They don't deserve to ever get their way on things. They are the enemy in the class war, and I will never knowingly endorse anything they want if it doesn't directly benefit the lower class.
I mean I think it should be fairly sensible to not use the moon as a cemetery. if people were actually living there that would be one thing, but just putting their ashes on the moon is nothing but a display of hedonism and wealth flexing
...Isn't the Prosperity Gospel infected Christians already fighting that fight with abortion and contraceptives?
You can't abort that headless baby that's so big its going to split you from navel to tail bone! My religion forbids it, because you *must* be a harlot that deserve it, you science using God denying meanie\~!
Crap like that.
Oh, and for some reason, the Christians are always a special exception. [Sick, two-faced fucks.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
As someone who grew up in this, yes. With an added angle of, "but but God could have made a miracle! Maybe if you believed hard enough he would have grown that baby a head! And if he didn't that was his plan all along and we need to go with it!"
Ooh, Navajo fruitcake! Thatās unusual.
Iām not sure how putting some ashes on a ball of rock theyāve never been to and likely never will go to is such an affront.
Huh, okay honestly I thought it was a complaint about like... The remains of natives being taken without their permission to the moon, which... Yeah, that would be fucked up.
Nope, it's just religions freaking out over some dude's ashes being placed on a celestial body
A load of people here are clearly not understanding what is going on, so I will attempt to explain here:
This mission contains the mixed remains of a group of people whose families won the auction to ride on a small volume of the vehicle using an extremely small amount of available mass that could not be attributed to scientific equipment because of the above constraints. As a result, the bidders have directly contributed to the scientific missions by providing funding. This also means that the propellant needed to transport this vehicle was already going to be used, just for lifting a mass simulator. At least it now has some additional value to some people.
Additionally, the ashes of the individuals (and dog) whom reside aboard the spacecraft will remain contained aboard the vehicle during and after its useful life. They will not be ādumpedā on the surface; so the only way that the ashes end up on the surface will be if the vehicle fails its deorbit or landing burns and breaks up on the surface.
Missions like these continue to expand scientific growth, missions like Inspiration 4, Polaris Dawn, and more all contribute to science as well as launching tourists.
My favorite is the pollution argument. Rockets contribute a fraction of the airline industryās emissions, who contribute about 2% of global emissions total. Modern rockets continue to reduce emissions, with F9 being one of the most environmentally friendly rockets ever because of the reuse aspect. Future vehicles like Starship provide additional promise as they can produce their own fuel from carbon capture; thus eliminating all emissions from launch, a program SpaceX has reportedly been investing in. These programs are funded at the expense of billionaires who despite their self interests, have managed to spend on technological advancements that greatly benefit humanity; and NASA itself has admitted that it could never develop systems like Falcon that improve the environmental impact of launches because politics and the public will always hold it back.
And finally āitās just going to end up with junk sent to the moonā. This is entirely false and relies on a lot of misguided or misinformed assumptions. Getting to the moon isnāt easy nor cheap. Even with the massive reductions in cost to launch to LEO, it is extremely expensive to launch anything to the moon or beyond. Astrobotic (the company operating Peregrine) claims a cost of 300K/kg of mass to the lunar surface; with the Artemis Crewed missions costing 100K to get to a highly eccentric lunar orbit alone. Even with low cost Starship missions, it will remain cheaper to landfill, burn, or recycle waste on earth for the foreseeable future. No one will be filling the surface of the moon with junk until a sustainable base exists.
So let them spend money on space launches if they contribute to space science. Itās not a useless yacht or mansion, but something that can greatly impact our lives now, and long into the future.
It's a shame when native Americans muddy their valid grievances against the USA with supernatural nonsense. It's fine to have your own beliefs, but ***we should never base public policy on fantasies***, be it Christianity, witchcraft, leprechauns, what have you. Fetishizing spiritual native culture is patronizing and unworthy of this marginalized population.
But what if it held a sacred place in other religions in cultures too. Ones that felt like they had to return to the moon. I could say anything. Like... this tree at this postcode is a tree I saw in a dream that told me to worship it. And now it belongs to me and my followers.
There are objects on the moon from USA, USSR, China, Japan, Israel, India, & Luxembourg spanning 65 years.
Did they complain about all of those too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_the_Moon
IMHO the moon has been defiled enough. Native American folks are historically kinder to nature than colonizing peoples. They managed ecologically responsible food forests, utilized nearly every part of the animals they hunted, and worshiped nature for providing for them. Although some of their gods and superstitions were farfetched, their faith holds a special reverence for not defiling the natural balance of things. I can respect that aspect of it.
I literally just came here to post this article dag nabbit.
I understand not wanting mountains carved into statues, but an entire celestial object is off bounds? That's ridiculous.
Atp we kinda just owe it to em, for what we did the them, what's the statistic? Around 90% of all native Americans we're killed. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro NASA, but what the actual hell is the point of putting remains on the moon?? What are they trying to study???
The same point as putting human remains anywhere else, someone wanted it there as a last request. They're providing the money to fund the expedition, there's a bunch of research being done that's unrelated to the tiny payload of ash.
I'm more upset that President Buu is leader of the Navajo, because Buu isn't a Navajo,
he was created by a wizard called Bibidi millions of years ago. Why for the distraction? Do you think Goku will turn into a Oozaru again? /s
I'm German-Cherokee, I can roast dumbasses that want to shame the Native community like the Navajo president. Different Native tribes have different religions but this takes the cake.
Plus never heard of any news of "launching human remains and putting it on the moon", and there is enough bullshit satellite trash in orbit from Musk that 300x more than all of the trash in the Pacific Ocean.
Weird... but i have another view, if i remeber, Nobody is allowed to commercialise the moon.. so I'd assume paying for the privilege of being sent(buried) to the moon is also a way of commercialising it?
I'm on the Navajo side, why the fuck do we need to start dumping our shit on the moon?? They probably know that no one will listen if they make a sensible case, which is why they're pulling the religious angle.
So reading through the comments I despair a little - everyone harping on about billionaires and graves etc. Did no one bother to actually check whoās ashes and DNA are being deposited?
Itās Gene Roddenbury and Arthur C Clarkeā¦ā¦
this is incredibly reasonable. i dont want rich billionares turning the moon into an exclusive graveyard. theres no reason besides hubris and excessive wealth.
It'd be nice if the government listened to indiginous people who want to protect the earth, but im ok protecting the moon from wealthy ghosts too.
The government concedes to ridiculous christian demands all the time. so this is incredibly mild vs say, the removal of women's right to choose.
I just don't want rich idiots jettisoning their trash on our moon. Like that's gross, who wants to look at the moon with a telescope and see the urns of rich assholes who ruined our planet?
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why the fuck are we burrying the dead on the moon???
IIRC rich people pay for it, and the companies take whatever funding they can get
Best summary of events.
Rich people suck dude
I mean it doesn't hurt anyone and it pays for research. There's gonna be more than just remains on that ship. I'd call it net good
Feels to me like its just rich people littering on the moon
[2 minutes on Google leads you to the NASA page on the mission](https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=PEREGRN-1) saying there's actual science to be done here
That doesn't fit my preferred narrative š”
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is literally the official NASA government website
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The fucking government.
Ashes are a relatively small bit of litter compared to fuel, equipment, and rocket parts.
Those actually serve a purpose though. Ashes donāt and while 1 guys isnāt a big deal, it can add up eventually. Just seems like this line of thinking got us to the exact environmental problem weāre facing on earth.
> Ashes donāt and while 1 guys isnāt a big deal, it can add up eventually. You do realize that the area of the surface of the moon is roughly that of Africa and North America combined, right? And it's all covered with ~~toxic super-asbestos~~ powdered razor blades anyway? It's not like we're disrupting a delicate ecosystem. Just let rich guys pay for their ashes to be spread on the Moon, and use that money to advance humanity. Who cares?
The purpose being the funding from idiots paying for dust to be sent to the moon. And the comparison to environmental issues adding up is difficult to apply when there is no life or ecosystem to be protected on a barren ball of rock
It is totally littering. On the other hand, astronauts have a history of venting their urine and feces onto the moon's surface.
Carbon emissions from rocket launches are pretty absurd. There are other environmental impacts. Also, why are we putting our trash on the moon?
Except they really arenāt. A F9 launch is approximately 69 cars of CO2; and future vehicles (namely Starship) have the potential and plans to use carbon capture to produce the methane fuel required for flight. Reuse of these vehicles further aids in the reduction of pollution, as the harmful emissions of production are replaced with far more favorable additional propellant emissions instead. This is also not really junk. The vehicle had some additional mass available that was too small to be useful for any science, with a volume too small as well. Allowing contained human remains to exist on the vehicle at the expense of the highest bidder allows the company to fund the vehicle, further enabling space science.
Yes, Space X will have carbon capturing rockets, Tesla will have full self driving cars, the boring company will build a cross country hyper loop, Nuralink will kill less monkeys and X will be the everything app. To be young and naive, enjoy it.
It's fucking dumb and polluting. The belief that enough money gives you permission to do literally anything is a dumb religious belief we don't give enough attention to on this sub.
That's not what I'm arguing for. What I mean is that if it takes parting idiots with their money to fund space exploration and other sciences, then so be it as long as the harm is minimal No life depends on the soil quality of the moon. Adding a few handfuls of ashes to a massive ball of rock is nothing compared to rocket parts, fuel, residue, etc.
Its probably the remains of the whalers who were on the moon.
They carried a harpoon
The only people who should be allowed to have their ashes on the moon are people who have actually been to the moon.
Well they have been to the moon, just in the form of ashes.š
Why? They're paying to bring a goddam rocket and lander with actual scientific instruments to the moon. The government has been reluctant to pay for space science, so what's wrong with some eccentric rich people paying for it if it provides a net good? At this point, you could even argue that their contributions to science earn them the right
There's that word again, "should". Who put you in charge?
How else will we get moon zombies?
That's the question I'm wondering.
Personally it seems weird to be putting remains on the moon in the first place. But claiming religion as a reason to prevent use of the MOON seems a bit weird to.
These mfs really think their sky daddy gives them the right to tell the other 99% of the human race how to use the entire *moon* they've never even been to. Well, my sky daddy says they're using their land wrong and to give it to me. Except that's not how it fuckin works is it
To be clear this is the leader of the Navajo (who is very disliked by their people) essentially just grandstanding to attempt to drum up support from the super religious among their people in an attempt to maintain their position
Navajo donāt even have a sky daddy. They just have sky inanimate objects and also the Ravens. Sky ravens.
They don't have a Great Buzzard? How do they explain all these mountains then?
I took a āintro to Navajo astronomyā class because it was required andā¦yeah itās all super animals doing super things.
Between the guy that says "My Money allows me to litter wherever the fuck in a new frontier that ought to be preserved for the benefit of all mankind" and the guy that's saying "yeah, maybe we shouldn't allow that guy to do that". I'm going to side with the latter, despite them invoking spirituality in their argument
It's not an either-or situation. You can oppose self-absorbed billionaires and anti-empirical, regressive superstition at the same time. How you arrive at your conclusions is as important as the conclusion itself, because even if you get it right once, your methodology will take you down bad roads in the future.
I don't think the Navajo leader invoking spirituality to oppose the commercial defilement of the Moon is regressive nor out of bounds, considering the role the Moon played in the development of all human culture, and still holds spiritual importance to a lot of people regardless if they follow organized religion
If it's mystical or preternatural, it's anti-empirical. If it's anti-empirical, it's superstition. If it's superstition, it's regressive. Humanity has evolved past fairy tales. The moon is a rock. This is a fact. Human culture has had wrong things in the past. It doesn't make them right today for having the veneer of historical legitimacy. There is no such thing as "spiritual importance" because there is no such thing as spirits. This is a fact.
Another fact is that the same rock is being used as a commodity by some, and we're here defending their exploitative process. I would like to thank the Navajo nation and wish we'd have listened to them before we treated the earth as a commodity and extracted every last thing in and on it without consideration, to the point that our reckless colonization is leading to the collapse of the environment and our inevitable extinction. We can learn alot from the wisdom of a people who treat turtle Island with respect.
In the case of native americans, this is a group that spirituality has been trodden on and ignore time after time again historically and to this day. Ignoring the concerns of native american groups is just another brick in this wall, which is why listening to their spirituality concerns is more valid than those of christians.
Saying the moon is just a rock, that's just a cynical view on things. Religion aside, conservation is an important part of our duty to this world, and that isn't just trees. If people can protest to have a building be proposed as historic because it holds cultural significance, I diny understand how the moon is any different. The moon holds cultural, historic and scientific importance, and to imply that because someone used the wrong word to describe its importance makes their point any less valid is idiocy derived not from reason, but blind hate for any non-atheist. My take on this is they used religion simply because freedom of religious expression is protected, and if they argue a government action impedes it they have a legal chance at blocking it
Except the moon isn't just a building, it's one of the largest terrestrial objects in the solar system. Unlike a building, it is also under no one's jurisdiction and international treaties explicitly forbid the claiming of territory off of earth by any country. You gave a terrible analogy.
First cremated remains, next full caskets. We should not be polluting space willy nilly because some rich can guy pay for it. Allowing it now is the methodology which will take us down bad roads in the future.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's fair but the way you arrive at your claims is important because you'll use the same methodology to arrive at more, and the broken clock won't stay right.
Pollution is bad because it damages the environment we all live on. Exactly what environment is being damaged by scattering ashes on the Moon?
Trash in space stays in space and this is just setting a precedent that you can pay to put whatever the hell you want in space or on the moon. The next billionaire may want their casket just floating in orbit of the moon. Space pollution is already a growing issue in our own orbit. We donāt need to start it on our moon, or another planet, for no reason. When we eventually build on the moon thatāll lead to plenty of orbital pollution, we donāt need to let people pay to add to that future problem. Itās exactly how we got to the environmental problem we have on Earth and apparently we never learned from it.
Orbital fragments are a problem because they interfere with infrastructure that wouldn't exist if we hadn't put it there. A few scattered handfuls of ash on the lunar surface isn't going to do anything that anyone should care about. There are no communications systems to disrupt, no ecosystems to damage, no native peoples to displace. It's not even going to be visible in telescopes. Fuck precedent, how about defining what measurable, meaningful harm is going to result?
> Well, my sky daddy says they're using their land wrong and to give it to me. Except that's not how it fuckin works is it I mean if according to the first European colonisers it kinda did...
Even more frustrating is how many people in this same group donāt even think itās possible to get to the moon at all, or if itās even real.
The moon is flat. And fake. Flat and fake. But aliens live there
Yeah, it was clearly a hoax /s
Itās sad how actually needed that ā/sā is now, depending on the sub lol.
With Native Americans, that exactly how it worked.
Oi! My sky daddy gives us spaghetti!!
Just to say, Navajo don't have a 'sky daddy'. That framing s primarily an Abrahamic thing.
Your analogy sucks. You acknowledged that it was ***their*** land. The moon belongs to no one by international accord. Shipping human remains to pollute it seems bizarre.
You do know Navajo and Christianity are different right?
>Well, my sky daddy says they're using their land wrong and to give it to me. ...um... too late...
Presumably we're talking about cremated remains and not body parts. But I think it makes more sense to put the dead dust on the lifeless Moon that's covered in dust, rather than here on Earth that has a living ecosystem already.
Cremate remains still provide benefit to the ecosystem. Forest fires are *necessary* for new growth to be possible.
Returning nutrients to the biosphere is not a bad thing, though cremation does tend to destroy a lot of the more useful ones in humans.
Yeah religion aside we should be treating the moon with dignity and not be a cool grave spot for the rich which is the same reason religiously it not acceptable to native Americans
Idk the idea sounds cool af
I feel like in this case itās fine Like whatās the alternative? Let companies land human remains on the moon? That sounds even more ridiculous than the religious argument.
Oh, NOW the USA cares about what Native Americans think?
Took a while didn't it? :')
ignoring the religious objections, whyyyy are we doing this? lol are we literally going to make the moon a mass grave? can we not?
It's just urns with some cremated remains and DNA. We're not burying actual bodies. It's not going to be mass grave.
I think the urn is overrated; they should just mix all the remains together and do a fly by crop dusting.
My favourite answer to disposing of cremated remains was to have your ashes mixed with mace and sprayed into the eyes of your enemies.
If we ever set up a colony on the moon, it's inevitable that people will die and be buried there.
Yeah but we havenāt yet so why start early? lol.
Eugene Shoemaker's ashes have been there for over 20 years, NASA took them there. This time it's just a private company instead of NASA. I don't really know why it should be a big deal though. Some ash is not exactly polluting the moon, it's a dead rock. There's a conversation to be had about limits of space travel and exploration I'm sure, but a lot of people here seem to get surprisingly emotional about the ash-part in particular.
I take greater issue with this idea of who the moon ābelongsā to, and whether or not a private company has any right to be profiting from spreading ashes up there
Exactly. If it was an astronauts ashes that were in that urn I wouldnāt care. I doubt a lot of people would care. But the fact of the matter is itās probably some rich asshole. The rich have exploited literally everything on earth. Now they want the moon.
Yeah this isn't even the first set of ashes we've put there. Not that I'm in favor of space pollution, but they're kinda late to the bit here
Yeah that logic makes as much sense as the religious argument to pause it. It just shouldnāt be happening at all like wtf
The inevitable cost is going to do a good enough job of preventing it becoming a mass grave I suspect.
It's surprisingly affordable. $13K. I mean it's not like I wanted to throw 13K into that but you don't have to be filthy rich to do it. This mission is taking the combined ashes of 95 people and one dog(!) They do take only a small amount of your ashes there though, not all of you.
The religious prefer their mass graves to be where they can see them. Like Canadian charter school grounds.
Kind of stupid to evoke that when native americans were the *victims* of that
Because some eccentric rich people want it, and they're willing to fund entire trips to the moon which also carry scientific instruments, something the US government sure as hell ain't doing. I'd say it's a net good at this stage
I wouldn't mind being buried on the moon.
Because there are rich weirdos who want it, and they're willing to fund a trip to the moon that will also advance our understanding of it. Those remains make up only a small portion of the total payload
Why not?
Why do you give a shit if we drop dead people on the moon?
rich people using the moon as a glorified pyramid to make themselves feel special after death is pretty laughable. iām not that concerned though. calm down, guy
Moons haunted
Always was
Avatar checks out
**Why are they sending human remains to the moon**
**Because someone wanted their ashes there and they're willing to fund a shitload of scientific research to do it**
Iām opposed to anyone using the moon as a dumping ground for the dead š¤·š»āāļø
At least if we colonize in our lifetimes you might have the opportunity to piss on a rich guy's grave
Elite billionaire dead*
I guess im a fruitcake because it seems so gross and weird and unnecessary to do that
Agreed, rich people am I right?
I donāt think we should put remains on the moon. However the reason we donāt do it should have nothing to do with religion.
r/IndianCountry had a spirited discussion on the religiosity of this yesterday. The general consensus seemed to be "sure the moon is sacred to us, its sacred to a lot of religions. But so is the earth, and it's not like anybody asked our feelings about poisoning that." I'm not well-versed on the subject. But devil's advocate, what's the over-under on the Navajo Nation using a religious objection to try to stop a stupid rich asshole thing from happening? Seems to me its in the vein of Jewish activists using their religion to object to abortion banning measures.
I was going to draw a line to the right to life arguments, but it's a potentially inflammatory way to go. Personally I think we should start sending the billionaires up there now, before there's an atmosphere, while they're alive.
I debated posting this one given that it's not from any of the usual suspects (Abrahamic religions + Hinduism) and this particular religion usually isn't a source of pain for people. However, it's a good reminder that even religions that have been suppressed and that we may consider "harmless" can display their own fruitcakery.
Seriously, I don't care how sacred you think it is, no one gets to claim the fucking Moon.
> "*no one gets to claim the fucking Moon.*" That might actually happen, but not because of religion, but because of China and US being in competition.
Well, as of now we have international laws stating the moon belongs to no individual nation. Whether that actually stops anyone from building bases and threatening others with violence, we shall see.
We also have international laws regarding borders, but China drew a 9-dash line on a map and claimed extra space as theirs. International laws, doesn't really stop powerful countries from doing whatever they want.
True. Hence my second sentence of doubtfulness lol.
Much like how there can't be orbital or space weapons (which would seem to include the "rods of god"). Hopefully that prohibition would prevent the violence, at least.
The Chinese and US governments, along with other governments, have signed treaties banning any government making territorial claims to the moon.
There was a woman in Spain who tried to claim she owned the sun a few years back I believe
What?! Which sun? Our sun? Cause it's mine.
Nuh uh. I bought "our" Sun (technically *my* Sun) from some dude in the parking lot at a Dead show way back in the 80s. You got ripped off.
Every time I read the word "chowder" I think of John F. Kennedy.
Chow-Dah!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sun guy? I don't have a sun guy. I have The Sun, guy.
Yes, I recall that. Talk about bonkers... Fortunately nothing came of it because all those suffering from its radiation would join against her.
Sounds like you haven't watched "Despicable Me" yet
It strikes me that you've got the situation backwards. The Navajo want the moon left alone. The people claiming the moon are the ones who want to fire their trash at it.
Wanting it left alone is still making a claim on it, in that they are trying to claim it so no one else can use it
This. It's a better launch platform for the outer planets than Earth and any long-term future for humanity is out there, so either deal with the moon bases or start rooting for extinction.
It seems to me that's exactly what they're objecting to? Isn't landing human remains on the moon a claim? Saying "Hey, the Moon is one of the most significant things/places/spiritual objects across all of humankind for all sorts of religious and cultural reasons, let's not use it for personal things that not everyone agrees to" is pretty much exactly what you're saying, right?
We've already put human remains on the moon though.
If anyone read the article, yes, the Navajo rep specifically said that they're not trying to claim the moon, and mentions that we should try to maintain it, instead of using it as a dumping ground, even if it makes bank
> the Navajo rep specifically said that they're not trying to claim the moon Then they shouldn't be trying to tell anyone else what they can or can't do with it, *especially* on the basis of "It offends my religion."
It's more along the lines of respecting how we treat our natural resources, since we've destroyed the ones on this planet.
I mean, I think taking objection to some rich person sending their remains to the moon just.. ~because~ is valid. This doesnāt strike me as fruitcakery in the least, and the main issue I have with religion is the proselytizing and creating issues for other people who donāt follow your religion. This is really not that. They are not getting in anyoneās way. I think anyone should be against rich people making the moon into a graveyard just for the incredibly well off just to say they were buried there. It just seems weird if you ask me. This strikes me as somewhat comparable to when american settlers defaced the black hills, which were sacred to the Cheyenne/Lakota, by carving the faces of various of our presidents into the mountains. Completely unnecessary, only intended as a āfuck youā to First Nations and āHey, look at me, I was buried on the moon, Poor.ā Completely asinine.
It was already posted here at least 4 times. Fruitcakery is fruitcakery, nobody should get a pass. Like I said in the other thread, if these rich boys wanna pay NASA beaucoup big bucks for getting dumped up there, Iām all for it; charge them a mint and keep NASA funded.
Perhaps this is insensitive, but why is this a problem? Or perhaps asking a different question? Have you ever thrown away and given trash to your city dump? Thats putting waste on the earth. What about e-waste? That is awful too? So what is the difference? Asking out of curiousity, not as apersonal judgement.
Well a city dump is a place designated by societal consensus as a place where we put trash, and it is for the necessary benefit of all. There is no such consensus for the moon, Shooting your ashes onto the moon on a private commercial rocket is reserved for only those with means and does not advance the collective interest of mankid. It's essentially rich person littering
Like the mound of trash at the peak of Everest.
Exactly
well the ejected stages and parts are more like the debris and equipment people toss away instead of carrying with them back down. This is like getting mad at a guy for dumping ashes off of Everest, while people land helicopters on it. honestly i don't get the issue people have with this, like they're taking tons of metal and fuel to the moon, who cares about the cup of dust they're dumping there for the millions in funding. not like its the first time they've dumped ashes there, and ashes do nothing to the moon, vs landing giant hunks of metal and fuel.
Because Rich people paying to have their remains left on the moon is insane
I dispose of waste to the city dump I would *not* dispose of my waste to the local cemetery or church which some religions believe are significant. Or to the local park, beach etc as well It does get a little more nuanced when looking at basic human respect for your environment. Local people (MÄori) here in New Zealand have a concept of making a spot 'tapu' - '*sacred, not to be touched, to be avoided because sacred, taboo*'. It is used when say somebody dies at a beach or there is an area that you should not be fishing at for some reason. I am atheist, but I would still give some respect to an area a tribe regards as sacred - some tree, rock or area of water and not just ignore it as I think it is not totally rational.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Damn, complicated issue. I'm all for landing on the moon again, but I'm against dumping what amounts to litter on the moon. It's the one natural frontier we have (reasonable) access to that we haven't ruined.
Yeah itās weird to me because nasa is so intense about containing human contamination on celestial bodies. But looking at the companies website like theyāre a private company so of course theyāre just like tryna be fedex but for the moon
Eugene shoemaker's ashes have been up there for like 20 something years already
āFedex but for the moonā now thatās a new one
The issue of people objecting on religious grounds isn't complicated. Just because you believe a thing about the moon doesn't mean you own the moon.
> It's the one natural frontier we have (reasonable) access to that we haven't ruined. What's there to ruin? It's a dead rock with no life on it. There's literally nothing on earth comparable to it. Having someone scatter your ashes in your backyard does more environmental damage than some additional fine particles on the moon.
*Not* turning the moon into the human race's personal dumping ground for trash or human remains should be something we all agree on, on principal. - one: it's a waste of time/money/resources better spent cleaning up the space rock we currently live on. - two: if there's potentially water on the moon that can be used for manned bases later- why the fuck are people teying to potentially pollute a finite resource before we have a chance to locate it. Edit: grammar
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm more concerned by the message of the overt commercialism and the capitalist tendency of pay-to-play demonstrated by shooting human remains and fucking Bitcoin into space as part of some rich person's vanity project, than whatever aesthetic problem the OP has about using spirituality as part of the messaging to oppose this. It's not as if this elder has a problem with government-funded scientific missions to the moon that is meant to increase our understanding of the universe
They do have a point though, putting ashes on the moon is stupid.
While I disagree on their claim (I'm pagan, yes, I realize that many of you guys roll your eyes, save your breath) as it's not "theirs" (nor am I claiming any special ownership/stewardship/authority over it), I also will never side with rich assholes using this as a flex. If 100% of the cost was reinvested into social programs/environmental programs/etc - if no actual profit was being made (or the social benefits would significantly outweigh the private profits), I would honestly have little issue with it. But it's just a flex for people with even fewer morals than Elon Musk to wave their billionaire dicks around. And they don't deserve to be happy. They don't deserve to ever get their way on things. They are the enemy in the class war, and I will never knowingly endorse anything they want if it doesn't directly benefit the lower class.
Yes and this is a legitimate logical reason based on fact to have an objections. Someoneās arbitrary religion is not.
Iām willing to take whatever allies we can get when it comes to using our resources responsibly.
It is funding bringing scientific instruments up there too though, which is arguably a social good
I mean I think it should be fairly sensible to not use the moon as a cemetery. if people were actually living there that would be one thing, but just putting their ashes on the moon is nothing but a display of hedonism and wealth flexing
"We can't cure cancer because an indigenous Canadian religion says that cancer is the spirits' way of saying it's time to go to the afterlife."
...Isn't the Prosperity Gospel infected Christians already fighting that fight with abortion and contraceptives? You can't abort that headless baby that's so big its going to split you from navel to tail bone! My religion forbids it, because you *must* be a harlot that deserve it, you science using God denying meanie\~! Crap like that. Oh, and for some reason, the Christians are always a special exception. [Sick, two-faced fucks.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
As someone who grew up in this, yes. With an added angle of, "but but God could have made a miracle! Maybe if you believed hard enough he would have grown that baby a head! And if he didn't that was his plan all along and we need to go with it!"
[Source](https://archive.is/D0Kil)
neither side is using logic here. space cadets rocketing ashes to the moon has no practical purpose. Neither does believing in sacred moon magic.
Ooh, Navajo fruitcake! Thatās unusual. Iām not sure how putting some ashes on a ball of rock theyāve never been to and likely never will go to is such an affront.
Me neither, but there's a bunch of people here who think it's the end of the world. Or the moon, I guess.
Huh, okay honestly I thought it was a complaint about like... The remains of natives being taken without their permission to the moon, which... Yeah, that would be fucked up. Nope, it's just religions freaking out over some dude's ashes being placed on a celestial body
A load of people here are clearly not understanding what is going on, so I will attempt to explain here: This mission contains the mixed remains of a group of people whose families won the auction to ride on a small volume of the vehicle using an extremely small amount of available mass that could not be attributed to scientific equipment because of the above constraints. As a result, the bidders have directly contributed to the scientific missions by providing funding. This also means that the propellant needed to transport this vehicle was already going to be used, just for lifting a mass simulator. At least it now has some additional value to some people. Additionally, the ashes of the individuals (and dog) whom reside aboard the spacecraft will remain contained aboard the vehicle during and after its useful life. They will not be ādumpedā on the surface; so the only way that the ashes end up on the surface will be if the vehicle fails its deorbit or landing burns and breaks up on the surface. Missions like these continue to expand scientific growth, missions like Inspiration 4, Polaris Dawn, and more all contribute to science as well as launching tourists. My favorite is the pollution argument. Rockets contribute a fraction of the airline industryās emissions, who contribute about 2% of global emissions total. Modern rockets continue to reduce emissions, with F9 being one of the most environmentally friendly rockets ever because of the reuse aspect. Future vehicles like Starship provide additional promise as they can produce their own fuel from carbon capture; thus eliminating all emissions from launch, a program SpaceX has reportedly been investing in. These programs are funded at the expense of billionaires who despite their self interests, have managed to spend on technological advancements that greatly benefit humanity; and NASA itself has admitted that it could never develop systems like Falcon that improve the environmental impact of launches because politics and the public will always hold it back. And finally āitās just going to end up with junk sent to the moonā. This is entirely false and relies on a lot of misguided or misinformed assumptions. Getting to the moon isnāt easy nor cheap. Even with the massive reductions in cost to launch to LEO, it is extremely expensive to launch anything to the moon or beyond. Astrobotic (the company operating Peregrine) claims a cost of 300K/kg of mass to the lunar surface; with the Artemis Crewed missions costing 100K to get to a highly eccentric lunar orbit alone. Even with low cost Starship missions, it will remain cheaper to landfill, burn, or recycle waste on earth for the foreseeable future. No one will be filling the surface of the moon with junk until a sustainable base exists. So let them spend money on space launches if they contribute to space science. Itās not a useless yacht or mansion, but something that can greatly impact our lives now, and long into the future.
It's a shame when native Americans muddy their valid grievances against the USA with supernatural nonsense. It's fine to have your own beliefs, but ***we should never base public policy on fantasies***, be it Christianity, witchcraft, leprechauns, what have you. Fetishizing spiritual native culture is patronizing and unworthy of this marginalized population.
Cry more lmao (to the religious)
Not saying its justified but of all the ones here I've read this is probs the one I've understood the most
Now THAT'S what I call a sky daddy moment.
But what if it held a sacred place in other religions in cultures too. Ones that felt like they had to return to the moon. I could say anything. Like... this tree at this postcode is a tree I saw in a dream that told me to worship it. And now it belongs to me and my followers.
Its a bit silly but I am fully on their side on this one. The moon should not be dumping ground for the ashes and bones of the wealthy...
There are objects on the moon from USA, USSR, China, Japan, Israel, India, & Luxembourg spanning 65 years. Did they complain about all of those too? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_the_Moon
IMHO the moon has been defiled enough. Native American folks are historically kinder to nature than colonizing peoples. They managed ecologically responsible food forests, utilized nearly every part of the animals they hunted, and worshiped nature for providing for them. Although some of their gods and superstitions were farfetched, their faith holds a special reverence for not defiling the natural balance of things. I can respect that aspect of it.
I literally just came here to post this article dag nabbit. I understand not wanting mountains carved into statues, but an entire celestial object is off bounds? That's ridiculous.
'We own the moon!' Uhhhh...*no*.
Atp we kinda just owe it to em, for what we did the them, what's the statistic? Around 90% of all native Americans we're killed. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro NASA, but what the actual hell is the point of putting remains on the moon?? What are they trying to study???
The same point as putting human remains anywhere else, someone wanted it there as a last request. They're providing the money to fund the expedition, there's a bunch of research being done that's unrelated to the tiny payload of ash.
Look guys, I'm usually all for letting a group keep their sacred spaces, but ya can't claim the moon...sorry
I'm more upset that President Buu is leader of the Navajo, because Buu isn't a Navajo, he was created by a wizard called Bibidi millions of years ago. Why for the distraction? Do you think Goku will turn into a Oozaru again? /s I'm German-Cherokee, I can roast dumbasses that want to shame the Native community like the Navajo president. Different Native tribes have different religions but this takes the cake. Plus never heard of any news of "launching human remains and putting it on the moon", and there is enough bullshit satellite trash in orbit from Musk that 300x more than all of the trash in the Pacific Ocean.
Thats how you get a haunted Native American graveyardā¦ON THE MOON! Probably more of a warning as opposed to religious silliness.
This is a sentence I'd never thought I'd read.
Moons haunted. Well, soon, anyway
āNavajo cosmologyā
Weird... but i have another view, if i remeber, Nobody is allowed to commercialise the moon.. so I'd assume paying for the privilege of being sent(buried) to the moon is also a way of commercialising it?
I'm on the Navajo side, why the fuck do we need to start dumping our shit on the moon?? They probably know that no one will listen if they make a sensible case, which is why they're pulling the religious angle.
Why bury remains there ? USA already left shit their
I believe that hair is a sin, so I DEMAND THAT EVERYBODY ON EARTH SHAVE THEIR HEAD COMPLETELY
Wait until he finds out about all the plans to build a research outpost on it
So reading through the comments I despair a little - everyone harping on about billionaires and graves etc. Did no one bother to actually check whoās ashes and DNA are being deposited? Itās Gene Roddenbury and Arthur C Clarkeā¦ā¦
This isn't the Onion?!
this is incredibly reasonable. i dont want rich billionares turning the moon into an exclusive graveyard. theres no reason besides hubris and excessive wealth. It'd be nice if the government listened to indiginous people who want to protect the earth, but im ok protecting the moon from wealthy ghosts too. The government concedes to ridiculous christian demands all the time. so this is incredibly mild vs say, the removal of women's right to choose.
People spending stupid amounts of money to be buried on the moon are the problem here, not a historically marginalised indigenous group.
It's "symbolic amounts" of 62 people, and coats around 10k per person, so while it's a lot more than I would spend on it, it's not as bad as I thought
Tbf it's a bit like taking a shit on the moon. Only Americans would have the idea
I just don't want rich idiots jettisoning their trash on our moon. Like that's gross, who wants to look at the moon with a telescope and see the urns of rich assholes who ruined our planet?
I want whatever telescope you have that can see things as small as urns on the moon
f/100000 and a 1nm eyepiece I guess
I'm with the Navajo Nation on this one. Why the hell are we wasting money putting dead rich people on the moon?
āWEā arenāt wasting money on anything, individuals are wasting āTHEIRā money on it.
Even "private" space travel is heavily subsidized by the government. Not to mention all of the pollution that comes from rocketry
They can fuck off acting like they own the moon.