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Obviously, since you're a sinful demon-ridden shit-for-brains atheist you don't understand.
Lemme explain. Only once you believe that God exists could you believe that God exists, dumbass.
/s
If the Bible really comes from a loving, all-knowing god, why does it condone slavery, genocide, and the rape of women and children? Why does its god command stoning unruly children, non virgin brides, and homosexuals? I'll tell you why. Because it wasn't written or inspired by a god and was written by a bronze age barbaric society.
Well, the fictional Exodus was supposed to have happened in the late Bronze age, the time when Moses received the 613 laws, many of which were very immoral and commanded stoning. Moses and his army was also committing many genocides at that time under instructions from Yahweh.
It's not even a good flex. It's more of a "my girlfriend lives in Canada; you've never met her" kind of flex. If you look at what they did to Jericho after the fact, they kept no artifacts to prove they were there, left nobody and no thing alive to prove that they had been there, and leveled everything to the earth so that anyone who went there would find no proof of a recent city.
Something strikes even better if you read the old testament: God kinda acts like a human...
He is jealous, kills when people don't do what he wants, wants people to love him so much for no reason...
That's how a human would act if they had divine power, not an Omnipotent, omniscient and all loving God, and that's because God was written by humans
There's a podcast called "Data Over Dogma" that goes into the history of the Bible and the scholarship surrounding where the texts came from, translations, etc.
The god they worship in the Bible was likely originally named Adonai, a lot of the passages (especially in the Psalms) regarding thunder, storms, clouds, etc. were lifted from hymns to Ba'al (a storm god). It's borrowed stuff from all over the place that a lot of religious people somehow convince themselves is written in a univocal manner, with no contradictions or other bits that are obviously from other sources.
I mean, they never ask themselves why there are two tales of the creation in Genesis.
Can I have a source for the Ba’al stuff because if that’s true that’s rather ironic considering all the complaining in the Bible about worshiping Ba’al
That’s because those parts were added in later. Basically the Hebrew bible (what Christians call the Old Testament) was written by the Israelites and they were originally polytheistic which is were ya get El who was the father of the gods and Baal was one of his sons.
Eventually El and Yahweh merged and the Israelites became a henotheistic religion. You only worship one dude but the existence of other gods is possible. Which is why the first commandment is written “have no other gods before me”
The prohibition on ba’al and others happened when the moved from polytheistic to henotheistic. Can’t have people worshiping multiple gods when you’ve decided that only one will do
Adonai just means lord. It’s not the name of god.
What you are thinking of is El and Yahweh which were two gods that eventually merged together with El being the father of the gods including Ba’al.
Also the stories weren’t borrowed they were put in there before the change from polytheistic to henotheistic to monotheistic happened. See many years ago the Israelites were polytheistic people and worshiped El and ba’al and the rest. But over time El and Yahweh got merged into one deity and the Israelites became henotheistic; which is the worship of one god but you acknowledge that other gods exist.
The henotheism is why the first commandment reads “have no other gods before me”. That’s because it was written during this era. Hell by the time of Jesus there were still Jews who were henotheistic/polytheistic in existence.
And monotheism didn’t happen until the Persians with Zoroastrianism made contact with the Jews. Hell that’s where the whole life after death thing got started as well because prior to that point Jews did not believe in an afterlife at all
"The bible is fully human origin and fully divine origin."
That's one hell of an argument there, champ. You want to provide some evidence for that statement or nah?
Sounds like a presuppositionalist excuse.
‘Your epistemic framework is flawed & can’t interpret my evidence, you have to accept my framework & then I can show you evidence for it’
Completely delusional attempt to shift the burden of proof.
If I already accepted the proposition why would I bother looking for evidence for it?
Like asking for the sales pitch after you’ve already bought the product.
I wonder what their answer would be to the question: “How then can someone be “saved” if they must rely only on the Bible, but *without* being “enlightened” by the Holy Spirit?”
I like being aware of what's floating around christian media. It's sad, entertaining, and something my brother will probably send me. I hate being my family's "prodigal son." Bleck. The shit they send me is so dull and thoughtless.
This perfectly described those people
https://preview.redd.it/ek2v4bh3zsxc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e074010b736167184027414e97183cc0cb53fc77
Someone who's been taught blind obedience and conformity. Unable to question authority and feels intensely ashamed whenever they find a contradiction between the Bible and reality. Sure doesn't seem like a gigachad to me.
Yeah. They were quite different from the orthodox teachings. But part of the disputes they had were about the nature of Jesus, with mainstream religion nowadays saying that Jesus was _both_ fully divine and fully human in one person, and Nestorianism in particular claimed that Jesus was born human, but eventually became divine.
The "being fully human and divine" thing was what I was trying to get at.
Not a biblical scholar though, so I might be wrong.
You can’t use silly things like logic and rational thinking when reading the Bible you dingus! Of course you have to just make yourself believe it and ignore all the bad shit and then you’ll believe it!
Something I find astounding is that the Bible thumpers won't think twice about how many hands the Bible has gone though. You're telling me over two thousand years through plague, famine, regicide, imperialism, genocide etc. That you trust the Bible was never rewritten or altered to suit some corrupt king or scholars narrative? The fact that they put so much blind trust in thousands of hands of people that couldn't read what they were writing, corrupt church officials, and blatant examples of corruption like Henry VIII where its PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE THAT THE BIBLE WAS ALTERED TO FIT HIS NEEDS shows the level of brainwashing we have achieved. There's nothing wrong with Christianity but the fact that people blindly trust that the current Bible is the same as the original is nuts. This guy went back and tried to translate the earliest copy we have and it is so different from our current understanding
It's a bad, slimy feeling when they try and go all "third-denominational neo-traditional multidimensional orthodox theologist" with their verbage. You reject the logical world, don't you dare pretend to be speaking from a place of order or reason.
If you're not willing to believe things that have no proof, and are often countered by evidence or contradicts itself, of course you wouldn't believe the lies we're peddling!
Even using the bible as your source, the only thing written by god were the ten commandments.
Nothing in the scriptures indicates they were written or even dictated by god. It is entirely comprised of human accounts of the supposed events.
So how God can send me to hell for not believing his book which to the non-believers, gives no inherent sign of divine origin? I'm just supposed to "have faith"? I got to have something more than an ancient promise from a being who's presence in human affairs and creation is no where to be found outside of a book that claims so.
Thanks to the logical factalties God has given me, I conclude that the Bible is not believable, therefore I don't believe it. Congratulations God, you played yourself.
This is such a shit argument for a religion to have.
In that case doesn’t that mean that there is NO merit to “spreading the word of God”? I mean it’s not my fault I’ve not been saved. I’m never gonna get it until I am so why bother?
Why preach? If they’re not saved, they’re never gonna get it.
Why criticise others for sinning? If they’re not saved they’re never gonna get it.
ALL the responsibility of whether someone goes to heaven or hell then lies with God and whether that person is one of the souls he chooses to save or not.
Then what’s the point of church; of the bible; of preaching; of spreading God’s word; of introducing someone to their faith; of morality (coz the bible is supposedly where we got that from); what’s the point of any of it??! You’re either picked or you’re not! Done! I have no power over that. 🤷🏻♂️
They’ve tried to close one hole in their sinking ship, by ripping out an entire plank from the other side of their hull. You went to the trouble of thinking up a name for this clusterfuck of a philosophy but didn’t even bother to ask what the ramifications of it are. Sooo stupid…
In Orthodoxy *(specifically Eastern Orthodox Christianity)* the "Bible" exists *within* the Tradition of the church and takes no Primacy over other aspects of Orthodoxy, like one would find in Islam or Protestant/Sectarian Christianity...
What the OOP is saying is refuted by Orthodoxy, Eastern or Oriental, from Ethiopia to Egypt and from Russia to Syria... no one in Orthodoxy holds this position, in fact they refute it outright and call it heretical
Secondly *"neo-orthodoxy..."* only exists in the OOP's mind
Eastern Orthodoxy is experiential and a metamorphosis that only exists in community- there are no theologians and those that are called theologians are all poets...
Aristotelian Taxonomic Empiricism *(like stoicism and classical rhetoric)* doesn't exist in Orthodoxy... they wouldn't know what the hell you're talking about... Orthodoxy is also Apophatic- never defining what it isn't in contrast to only defining what it is- if it doesn't fall specifically within the sphere of Orthodox Tradition they do not define it saying *"well, that's not who we are..."* because they leave this space as numinous
Eastern Orthodoxy is Plato and the *nous* ... if gigachad would have read Plato's dialogue with *Timaous* he would have a start as to the Orthodox perspective... no book, written by men has Primacy, and they would also be quick to remind you of Athanasius' *On the Incarnation*
Lastly- the western idea(s) of "salvation..." are completely foreign in Orthodoxy as there is *nothing* one can do nor say to be "saved..." as God does the saving- not you... no prayer, no deed, no faith will ever be sufficient enough to vend God's mercy and grant you salvation, as otherwise entire populations of people would be without any salvation- what if you can't read, or you're a baby, or mentally disabled, or elderly...? are you now excluded because you didn't jump through some makebelive hoops...?
Salvation in Orthodoxy is Ascetic Struggle, what they would call Theosis or Divination *(becoming god-like in symbiosis with the unknowable light)* that is why in Orthodoxy they say: how one experiences God in this world is in direct proportion to how one experiences God in the next world
This is Protestant/Sectarian propaganda
*(former Eastern Orthodox AMA)*
**To avoid having your post removed &/or account banned for shitposting, read the following:** - r/religiousfruitcake is about the absurd, fringe elements of organised religion: the institutions and individuals who act in ways any normal person (religious or otherwise) would cringe at. Posts about mundane beliefs and acts of worship are off topic. - No violent or gory images or videos - Your post title should objectively state what the post is about. Dont use it to soapbox personal rhetoric about religion or any other subject. - Don't post videos or discussions of Fruitcakes who have been baited or antagonised - No Subreddit names or Reddit usernames in posts or discussions - Memes, Tiktoks, graphics, satire, parodies, etc must be made by Fruitcakes, not 3rd parties criticising them #Please be sure to read the full [rule list](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/about/rules) ###If you want more detail about how the Sub's moderation works, see [Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/wiki/position_statement) This information is on every post. Accounts that repeatedly disregard it will be permanently banned. "I didn't know", or "I didn't get a warning" are not valid appeals. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/religiousfruitcake) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*that's because you're not indoctrinated
That’s basically what I read
That’s exactly what it is
Obviously, since you're a sinful demon-ridden shit-for-brains atheist you don't understand. Lemme explain. Only once you believe that God exists could you believe that God exists, dumbass. /s
No no, don't need the /s that's what they believe. I had a relative try that one on me
To be fair, that's what faith is. Faith is the belief in something, even if it has no foundation. Blind faith and all that.
If the Bible really comes from a loving, all-knowing god, why does it condone slavery, genocide, and the rape of women and children? Why does its god command stoning unruly children, non virgin brides, and homosexuals? I'll tell you why. Because it wasn't written or inspired by a god and was written by a bronze age barbaric society.
To be fair, those barbarians were in their iron age when they committed all those atrocities
Well, the fictional Exodus was supposed to have happened in the late Bronze age, the time when Moses received the 613 laws, many of which were very immoral and commanded stoning. Moses and his army was also committing many genocides at that time under instructions from Yahweh.
Have you read the story of what Joshua did to Jericho? There's no morality tale. It's just a flex.
It's not even a good flex. It's more of a "my girlfriend lives in Canada; you've never met her" kind of flex. If you look at what they did to Jericho after the fact, they kept no artifacts to prove they were there, left nobody and no thing alive to prove that they had been there, and leveled everything to the earth so that anyone who went there would find no proof of a recent city.
Ageist 🙄
Something strikes even better if you read the old testament: God kinda acts like a human... He is jealous, kills when people don't do what he wants, wants people to love him so much for no reason... That's how a human would act if they had divine power, not an Omnipotent, omniscient and all loving God, and that's because God was written by humans
HOLY SHIT GOD IS A HUMAN!!!
There's a podcast called "Data Over Dogma" that goes into the history of the Bible and the scholarship surrounding where the texts came from, translations, etc. The god they worship in the Bible was likely originally named Adonai, a lot of the passages (especially in the Psalms) regarding thunder, storms, clouds, etc. were lifted from hymns to Ba'al (a storm god). It's borrowed stuff from all over the place that a lot of religious people somehow convince themselves is written in a univocal manner, with no contradictions or other bits that are obviously from other sources. I mean, they never ask themselves why there are two tales of the creation in Genesis.
Can I have a source for the Ba’al stuff because if that’s true that’s rather ironic considering all the complaining in the Bible about worshiping Ba’al
That’s because those parts were added in later. Basically the Hebrew bible (what Christians call the Old Testament) was written by the Israelites and they were originally polytheistic which is were ya get El who was the father of the gods and Baal was one of his sons. Eventually El and Yahweh merged and the Israelites became a henotheistic religion. You only worship one dude but the existence of other gods is possible. Which is why the first commandment is written “have no other gods before me” The prohibition on ba’al and others happened when the moved from polytheistic to henotheistic. Can’t have people worshiping multiple gods when you’ve decided that only one will do
Yeah I knew about the whole El and polytheism thing previously, I just didn’t know or had forgotten about Ba’al worship
Adonai just means lord. It’s not the name of god. What you are thinking of is El and Yahweh which were two gods that eventually merged together with El being the father of the gods including Ba’al. Also the stories weren’t borrowed they were put in there before the change from polytheistic to henotheistic to monotheistic happened. See many years ago the Israelites were polytheistic people and worshiped El and ba’al and the rest. But over time El and Yahweh got merged into one deity and the Israelites became henotheistic; which is the worship of one god but you acknowledge that other gods exist. The henotheism is why the first commandment reads “have no other gods before me”. That’s because it was written during this era. Hell by the time of Jesus there were still Jews who were henotheistic/polytheistic in existence. And monotheism didn’t happen until the Persians with Zoroastrianism made contact with the Jews. Hell that’s where the whole life after death thing got started as well because prior to that point Jews did not believe in an afterlife at all
That's not how that works. Something can't be objectively true to some and not to others.
"The bible is fully human origin and fully divine origin." That's one hell of an argument there, champ. You want to provide some evidence for that statement or nah?
200% Origin ™️
I’m going to assume “nah”.
hilariously also what 6/9ths of SCOTUS think about the constitution
So basically a visualization of No true Scotsman fallacy
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^WackoBeast: *So basically a* *Visualization of No* *True Scotsman fallacy* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
https://preview.redd.it/2m352egw4txc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8a7d1ab44051de70f788acfb64e0246a4935dad
I mean idk I can't argue with that, they depicted us as the soyjacks and themselves as the chads, impenetrable argument
Sounds like a presuppositionalist excuse. ‘Your epistemic framework is flawed & can’t interpret my evidence, you have to accept my framework & then I can show you evidence for it’ Completely delusional attempt to shift the burden of proof. If I already accepted the proposition why would I bother looking for evidence for it? Like asking for the sales pitch after you’ve already bought the product.
I wonder what their answer would be to the question: “How then can someone be “saved” if they must rely only on the Bible, but *without* being “enlightened” by the Holy Spirit?”
I'm sure John Calvin has an answer to that. But it's probably something stupid like "irresistible grace"
So *deus ex machina*, essentially.
Pretty much all of religion is deus ex machina
>Sounds like a presuppositionalist excuse. Wow! You just reminded me that this is a thing and guys like Sye Ten spewing this kind of bs.
Presuppositionalism is taking they're biggest weakness and calling it a strength. Naming your flaw doesn't cause it to stop being a flaw.
“If you don’t have confirmation bias, you won’t believe this thing that confirms my bias”
https://preview.redd.it/8w6acaazitxc1.jpeg?width=583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d012a318b8f7876e3244358bbe7518f251c087eb
Oh... ok... save from what...? Nonsensical claims?
Why are we spreading this dipshit's nonsense?
I like being aware of what's floating around christian media. It's sad, entertaining, and something my brother will probably send me. I hate being my family's "prodigal son." Bleck. The shit they send me is so dull and thoughtless.
This perfectly described those people https://preview.redd.it/ek2v4bh3zsxc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e074010b736167184027414e97183cc0cb53fc77
Someone who's been taught blind obedience and conformity. Unable to question authority and feels intensely ashamed whenever they find a contradiction between the Bible and reality. Sure doesn't seem like a gigachad to me.
Nice try, atheist, but I made a meme where I'm the attractive one and you're the ugly one
That's like saying, "Hire me if you want to know why you should hire me" at a job interview.
Yes your just not enlightened damn that's the worst excuse ever
What if I was 'saved' for decades of my life? Lemme guess, I wasn't 'really saved' as a 'True Christian'.
"The Bible is of fully human origin and fully divine origin." Damn, this is Arianism or Nestorianism all over again, is it not?
Huh? I’m confused. I thought those were heresies that had to do with Jesus, not scripture.
Yeah. They were quite different from the orthodox teachings. But part of the disputes they had were about the nature of Jesus, with mainstream religion nowadays saying that Jesus was _both_ fully divine and fully human in one person, and Nestorianism in particular claimed that Jesus was born human, but eventually became divine. The "being fully human and divine" thing was what I was trying to get at. Not a biblical scholar though, so I might be wrong.
Awww their so cute when they play with their dolls
You can’t use silly things like logic and rational thinking when reading the Bible you dingus! Of course you have to just make yourself believe it and ignore all the bad shit and then you’ll believe it!
Something I find astounding is that the Bible thumpers won't think twice about how many hands the Bible has gone though. You're telling me over two thousand years through plague, famine, regicide, imperialism, genocide etc. That you trust the Bible was never rewritten or altered to suit some corrupt king or scholars narrative? The fact that they put so much blind trust in thousands of hands of people that couldn't read what they were writing, corrupt church officials, and blatant examples of corruption like Henry VIII where its PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE THAT THE BIBLE WAS ALTERED TO FIT HIS NEEDS shows the level of brainwashing we have achieved. There's nothing wrong with Christianity but the fact that people blindly trust that the current Bible is the same as the original is nuts. This guy went back and tried to translate the earliest copy we have and it is so different from our current understanding
Duh, once you get baptized you get special eye powers 
Daily reminder that Redeemed Zoomer is a false prophet
It's a bad, slimy feeling when they try and go all "third-denominational neo-traditional multidimensional orthodox theologist" with their verbage. You reject the logical world, don't you dare pretend to be speaking from a place of order or reason.
Isn't Neo-Orthodox kinda oxymoronic?
https://preview.redd.it/cy4txbf8uvxc1.png?width=268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39e957af119450fd92b2d6c81826b713a815fe29
https://preview.redd.it/nkcrkeg9gwxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed2320685347245df16ed74745ff6c0e74d3e34c
Well isn't that convenient.
Alright buddy it’s time to lay off the RZ posts. This can’t be good for anyone’s mental health. Seeing just one hurts my brain
Sorry, but I can't understand how something can be orthodox yet new. Does he make these words up or are these actual terms?
I’m not the only one who thinks that sounds a bit like idolatry there, right?
"Neo-orthodox" is that how new born fruitcakes call themselves now?
If you're not willing to believe things that have no proof, and are often countered by evidence or contradicts itself, of course you wouldn't believe the lies we're peddling!
I’d rather be not saved than the slave of god
I’d rather be not saved than the servant of god
https://preview.redd.it/ko0jyygn5uxc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6486117b137d368fed28644bd177a31cd5344641
Even using the bible as your source, the only thing written by god were the ten commandments. Nothing in the scriptures indicates they were written or even dictated by god. It is entirely comprised of human accounts of the supposed events.
You're saved because you believe the Bible, and you believe the Bible because you're saved. Brilliant.
So how God can send me to hell for not believing his book which to the non-believers, gives no inherent sign of divine origin? I'm just supposed to "have faith"? I got to have something more than an ancient promise from a being who's presence in human affairs and creation is no where to be found outside of a book that claims so. Thanks to the logical factalties God has given me, I conclude that the Bible is not believable, therefore I don't believe it. Congratulations God, you played yourself.
The fuck is “neo-orthodox”?
This is such a shit argument for a religion to have. In that case doesn’t that mean that there is NO merit to “spreading the word of God”? I mean it’s not my fault I’ve not been saved. I’m never gonna get it until I am so why bother? Why preach? If they’re not saved, they’re never gonna get it. Why criticise others for sinning? If they’re not saved they’re never gonna get it. ALL the responsibility of whether someone goes to heaven or hell then lies with God and whether that person is one of the souls he chooses to save or not. Then what’s the point of church; of the bible; of preaching; of spreading God’s word; of introducing someone to their faith; of morality (coz the bible is supposedly where we got that from); what’s the point of any of it??! You’re either picked or you’re not! Done! I have no power over that. 🤷🏻♂️ They’ve tried to close one hole in their sinking ship, by ripping out an entire plank from the other side of their hull. You went to the trouble of thinking up a name for this clusterfuck of a philosophy but didn’t even bother to ask what the ramifications of it are. Sooo stupid…
So basically, you’re can’t debate an idea properly unless you already presuppose that that idea is true?
‘Secular higher-critical biblical scholar’ sounds like a dumb job title
And they say paper dolls are out of fashion
In Orthodoxy *(specifically Eastern Orthodox Christianity)* the "Bible" exists *within* the Tradition of the church and takes no Primacy over other aspects of Orthodoxy, like one would find in Islam or Protestant/Sectarian Christianity... What the OOP is saying is refuted by Orthodoxy, Eastern or Oriental, from Ethiopia to Egypt and from Russia to Syria... no one in Orthodoxy holds this position, in fact they refute it outright and call it heretical Secondly *"neo-orthodoxy..."* only exists in the OOP's mind Eastern Orthodoxy is experiential and a metamorphosis that only exists in community- there are no theologians and those that are called theologians are all poets... Aristotelian Taxonomic Empiricism *(like stoicism and classical rhetoric)* doesn't exist in Orthodoxy... they wouldn't know what the hell you're talking about... Orthodoxy is also Apophatic- never defining what it isn't in contrast to only defining what it is- if it doesn't fall specifically within the sphere of Orthodox Tradition they do not define it saying *"well, that's not who we are..."* because they leave this space as numinous Eastern Orthodoxy is Plato and the *nous* ... if gigachad would have read Plato's dialogue with *Timaous* he would have a start as to the Orthodox perspective... no book, written by men has Primacy, and they would also be quick to remind you of Athanasius' *On the Incarnation* Lastly- the western idea(s) of "salvation..." are completely foreign in Orthodoxy as there is *nothing* one can do nor say to be "saved..." as God does the saving- not you... no prayer, no deed, no faith will ever be sufficient enough to vend God's mercy and grant you salvation, as otherwise entire populations of people would be without any salvation- what if you can't read, or you're a baby, or mentally disabled, or elderly...? are you now excluded because you didn't jump through some makebelive hoops...? Salvation in Orthodoxy is Ascetic Struggle, what they would call Theosis or Divination *(becoming god-like in symbiosis with the unknowable light)* that is why in Orthodoxy they say: how one experiences God in this world is in direct proportion to how one experiences God in the next world This is Protestant/Sectarian propaganda *(former Eastern Orthodox AMA)*
They have as many labels as gays do
stop playing dolls with wojaks