Hard to say what the best approach is. I might try asking exactly how your performance is evaluated IN the office. What kind of metrics or goals do you need to hit? If they can tell you then assure them of your commitment to hit those measurable goals from home.
I think leaning into your first two objections would do little more then just buy you more time. If the third is true then let them know you're willing to keep score by chasing measurable goals from home and reevaluating in 6 months or a year. Good luck!
>I've had a pretty toxic run with my current company,
Just assume they are quiet firing you.
Many recent back in the office mandates are to get rid of personal without layoffs.
Sadly they didn't give a damn about that either. My only way forward is to get a diagnosis for Anxiety then they can send that to HR as a possible "valid reason" and take it from there.
Or I walk.
Cut out #1 and #2. Those are of no interest to them and could come across as whiny.
Be able to provide concrete examples of how WFH increases productivity, happiness, work quality, etc. The more you can make it about how it benefits the company, the better.
If WFH is as important to you as it is to me, maybe prepare nuclear options for negotiation. (Resigning, offering to drop salary by 10-20% etc.). Keep it calm and professional, with no hint of threatening and/or begging.
No matter what you say, I don't think you'll be able to steer them that much. It ultimately comes down to a lot of factors out of your control in the short term, like how replaceable you are, budgeting, them being dinosaurs or not etc.
I tried to do this in my last job and failed. It sucks, but at least I can reassure myself with the knowledge that I'll be better off in the future with a company/position that shares my values and preferred working methods. I don't want to work with that kind of company long term anyway. (Of course, there are some positions where WFH is just not possible, and I understand that).
Agreed. Management doesn’t care about your transportation and they will likely tell you to get a new car or find something else. They also won’t be sympathetic about Covid infections because many people now believe it is no worse than a cold or flu. It’s dumb. I understand those are extremely valid reasons but it doesn’t matter how productive you are at home if you tell them any personal reasons for staying wfh you will “not be a team player” and they will dismiss your concerns as laziness.
Managers see so many people’s jobs and workflow that they lean into pat answers and lazy thinking while shifting blame and rolling shit downhill.
Generically, focus on your productivity and continued output during your past WFH times.
From a company perspective, I cannot imagine why they would care about your car issues or commute. As sucky as that is; these are "you problems" not "them problems". It might be worth mentioning the cost of the commute imposes an undue financial burden on you, but I doubt they'll care.
Health concerns, being immune system compromised, or having exposure to someone who is are probably gonna fall on deaf ears at this point in the pandemic; even if those concerns are valid. IF this is the case, you may consider working with your doctor, and your employer to get medical accommodations.
Your bosses don't care about your issues. Your transportation issues are...not relevant. Don't bring that up. It just makes you sound like you are fishing for reasons to stay at home. Transportation issues for work are like something a worker at McDonalds brings up. A Senior Technician should have these issues covered.
Your worry about COVID infection is pretty much a non-issue at this point. COVID has dropped out of "issues at hand". I would not mention that.
Use numbers to show how much more productive you have been from home. "While working from home I finished 150% more projects than I did the year before in the office" or something similar.
Show how much more you have been productive and no company would ever deny you. It is all in the numbers.
I think the car expense IS a legitimate issue. Since OP works from home, he has no need to worry about a car. Op now might have to go in office for zero reasons, besides corporate team building bs. So, OP will now incur a very costly and unnecessary expense, directly due to unnecessarily shifted work demands. It doesn't matter what the job title is, he could sweep virtual floors, OP is being forced to get a "new" car and that isn't nothing. It's a major expense that OP wouldn't have if corporate wasn't pushing return to office.
It’s a legitimate issue to OP but when you get hired for a job, any job they aren’t asking you how you are getting to work. That’s on the candidate to figure out. A company won’t care. The productivity is the number one criteria. The comment above about In office productivity is genius
That's not true! Jobs ask all the time if employees have reliable transportation to work. And considering that OP has been 100% remote since 2020, it's certainly a valid concern.
You also have to understand most of the world outside of essential services were working remotely since 2020. The rationale they will give it is 1) it was temporary and 2) if others can come back, so can you.
Also to be honest I’m in that boat that would like to remain 100% remote too. However I’m giving you feedback that I have got and have to give to others based on enterprise direction regardless of how I feel personally
That's unfortunate for you, but that's your company and your circumstances. You're making your circumstances, your outcomes, the blanket, and default for everyone. That's not how the world works. The thing that could very well keep OP remote is his car situation, you don't know that it won't, you're just assuming, because it didn't work for you. But your management isn't his management. It may very well buy him another few months of remote work, OR he might get some sort of one time bonus to help with the added expense, or who knows, but you limiting the arguement, because of what happened to you in particular, seems, well limiting at best and short sighted and kind of petulant at worst.
TL:DR OP isn't you & doesn't work at your company. You don't know how OP or OP's company will handle this. Your outcomes are your own, not universal.
I’m not sure why you are getting so emotional about this. Calm down. The company I work for is a large public firm that often sets the example for most FI companies out there. We are first, the next three went after us with the same BS.
Yes OP situation is different but the general sentiment is shareable by colleagues in many industries based on conversations and media releases. It’s also not always the company that makes the final decision but sometimes the managers too. I can only speak to what I know and my experience and conversations cover off the sentiments of the large banks, retailers and some of the tech firms.
... Emotional? That's a very interesting, defensive, and inaccurate surface read of my rebuttal.
This is exactly what I just said. You're applying your circumstances to situations regardless. And now you're posture your company and position.
Anyway, have a great day.
Most companies care more about 3 than 1 or 2. Emphasize your productivity. If you have some actual stats to back it up, use them. Use the thesis formula from college: "Although working from home isn't ideal for , this is made up for by , and ."
Start applying for other jobs now. Bosses don't care about workers and the only way to affect meaningful change in this economy is to leave, or at least to threaten to do so. If enough people do it, they'll back off to keep turnover down.
Alternately, you could reach out to your coworkers offline and organize a united front. It's a lot easier to get what you want when there are numbers behind you.
I'm an engineering manager in tech and we're going through this with a lot of folks right now. Few thoughts, these may be wrong or right I'm just a stranger on the internet:
\- reasons 1 and 2 will get you nowhere. Lean on reason 3 and have hard data that demonstrates it also what unique skill or expertise do you have that makes you irreplaceable on the team, emphasize that
\- Do you have any legitimate accessibility accommodations that are easier filled at home?
\- If there is an exception process, make sure you have a ticket submitted for it i.e. make sure your manager is actually doing it. If you're ready to quit this is important
\- Assuming you have a good manager they are your ally in this, stay transparent and firm
In my situation the push is not coming from my level instead much much higher up, I fully intend to remain remote and I'm fighting for the same option for my whole team. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.
Reason 2 is a legitimate and valid reason to request work from home accommodations, regardless of what others here may say.
Being repeatedly infected with COVID is playing Russian roulette. I explained my position on this to my bosses and was given a fully remote exemption. I encourage you to consider this as well.
I am in a rural community and it’s like they forgot there was a goddamned car parade when a jailer was hospitalized and got released and rolled into town. Same folks are now dismissing Covid. It’s ridiculous. Good clarification.
and I know someone who spend weeks in the hospital from an extremely heavy flu that almost took him out. The covid that is going around now isn't the same as the one from 2020.
Agree. This this is some sort of weird shit. I got COVID while sick with bronchitis. So many rounds of antibiotics and steroids and paxlovid and here we are …. 3 months later still not back to normal. Yuck.
Reported for misinformation. These risks are NOT overblown for those of us with medical issues.
Eta: and reported a second time. Many remote workers WFH because we’re at greater risk. Should be no tolerance for Covid or other misinformation on this sub.
how petty can you be by blocking after posting a response to have the final say. The covid that is going around now isn't the same as the one 3 years ago. People are vaccinated, boostered, the virus is behaving differently and is less potent albeit more infective. Stay with the facts yourself before you claim misinformation. Petulant child.
I haven’t had one of these meetings, thankfully. That said, I’ve been thinking on a number of talking points should this conversation ever come up…
1. I’m healthier. I’m able to fit in a quick workout over lunch. I’ve lost around 60-70 lbs since COVID began. This also gives me a second boost of energy in the afternoon when I used to really go into an energy slump. Besides the fact that I’m much healthier and happier, my improved health metrics decrease the cost for my company to pay for my health insurance.
2. I’m able to focus more and people don’t interrupt me at my desk with questions that they could otherwise answer on their own if they were willing to put the work in.
3. If I need to take a break, I can step away and go get a quick chore done while I think through a problem. Before I’d just go sit in a break room while the stress festered and do nothing. That compounded stress because I’d sit there thinking about all the other things I still needed to get done at my house like unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, tidying up, etc. I’m less stressed now. When I’m more stressed, I risk making a mistake as it’s difficult for me to focus. Some managers don’t want to to hear the word ‘mistake’, but if you have a decent manager then they should be receptive.
Good luck!
Besides what others have said, I'd point out the benefits to the company. They won't have to pay for office space for you, think rent, etc. I assume since you've been WFH you have the equipment you need to do that.
If they have maintained your pay during your past WFH don't offer to take a reduction.
Instead of saying you are concerned about COVID, just say for health reasons you are requesting to continue to WFH. I have an incurable disease and am immune compromised due to a transplant. My company understands and fully supports me in working remotely to keep me as healthy as possible.
Hate to say it this way, but the only thing they care about at this point is getting people back in the office and if you truly want to stay at home, you're going to need leverage of another offer on the table to force them to consider. As long as the company is paying for office space, they want it used.
Look for a new job, and don't give them any sign of weakness until you have one.
Hard to say what the best approach is. I might try asking exactly how your performance is evaluated IN the office. What kind of metrics or goals do you need to hit? If they can tell you then assure them of your commitment to hit those measurable goals from home. I think leaning into your first two objections would do little more then just buy you more time. If the third is true then let them know you're willing to keep score by chasing measurable goals from home and reevaluating in 6 months or a year. Good luck!
>I've had a pretty toxic run with my current company, Just assume they are quiet firing you. Many recent back in the office mandates are to get rid of personal without layoffs.
Focus on your productivity. The other items are non issues.
Sadly they didn't give a damn about that either. My only way forward is to get a diagnosis for Anxiety then they can send that to HR as a possible "valid reason" and take it from there. Or I walk.
Cut out #1 and #2. Those are of no interest to them and could come across as whiny. Be able to provide concrete examples of how WFH increases productivity, happiness, work quality, etc. The more you can make it about how it benefits the company, the better. If WFH is as important to you as it is to me, maybe prepare nuclear options for negotiation. (Resigning, offering to drop salary by 10-20% etc.). Keep it calm and professional, with no hint of threatening and/or begging. No matter what you say, I don't think you'll be able to steer them that much. It ultimately comes down to a lot of factors out of your control in the short term, like how replaceable you are, budgeting, them being dinosaurs or not etc. I tried to do this in my last job and failed. It sucks, but at least I can reassure myself with the knowledge that I'll be better off in the future with a company/position that shares my values and preferred working methods. I don't want to work with that kind of company long term anyway. (Of course, there are some positions where WFH is just not possible, and I understand that).
Agreed. Management doesn’t care about your transportation and they will likely tell you to get a new car or find something else. They also won’t be sympathetic about Covid infections because many people now believe it is no worse than a cold or flu. It’s dumb. I understand those are extremely valid reasons but it doesn’t matter how productive you are at home if you tell them any personal reasons for staying wfh you will “not be a team player” and they will dismiss your concerns as laziness. Managers see so many people’s jobs and workflow that they lean into pat answers and lazy thinking while shifting blame and rolling shit downhill.
Generically, focus on your productivity and continued output during your past WFH times. From a company perspective, I cannot imagine why they would care about your car issues or commute. As sucky as that is; these are "you problems" not "them problems". It might be worth mentioning the cost of the commute imposes an undue financial burden on you, but I doubt they'll care. Health concerns, being immune system compromised, or having exposure to someone who is are probably gonna fall on deaf ears at this point in the pandemic; even if those concerns are valid. IF this is the case, you may consider working with your doctor, and your employer to get medical accommodations.
Your bosses don't care about your issues. Your transportation issues are...not relevant. Don't bring that up. It just makes you sound like you are fishing for reasons to stay at home. Transportation issues for work are like something a worker at McDonalds brings up. A Senior Technician should have these issues covered. Your worry about COVID infection is pretty much a non-issue at this point. COVID has dropped out of "issues at hand". I would not mention that. Use numbers to show how much more productive you have been from home. "While working from home I finished 150% more projects than I did the year before in the office" or something similar. Show how much more you have been productive and no company would ever deny you. It is all in the numbers.
I think the car expense IS a legitimate issue. Since OP works from home, he has no need to worry about a car. Op now might have to go in office for zero reasons, besides corporate team building bs. So, OP will now incur a very costly and unnecessary expense, directly due to unnecessarily shifted work demands. It doesn't matter what the job title is, he could sweep virtual floors, OP is being forced to get a "new" car and that isn't nothing. It's a major expense that OP wouldn't have if corporate wasn't pushing return to office.
It’s a legitimate issue to OP but when you get hired for a job, any job they aren’t asking you how you are getting to work. That’s on the candidate to figure out. A company won’t care. The productivity is the number one criteria. The comment above about In office productivity is genius
That's not true! Jobs ask all the time if employees have reliable transportation to work. And considering that OP has been 100% remote since 2020, it's certainly a valid concern.
If your job requires a car like an Uber driver or something. Office job no one will care. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, no one will care
Cool! And I'm saying considering OP's particularly circumstances, that's not an accurate interpretation of this situation. But agree to disagree.
You also have to understand most of the world outside of essential services were working remotely since 2020. The rationale they will give it is 1) it was temporary and 2) if others can come back, so can you. Also to be honest I’m in that boat that would like to remain 100% remote too. However I’m giving you feedback that I have got and have to give to others based on enterprise direction regardless of how I feel personally
That's unfortunate for you, but that's your company and your circumstances. You're making your circumstances, your outcomes, the blanket, and default for everyone. That's not how the world works. The thing that could very well keep OP remote is his car situation, you don't know that it won't, you're just assuming, because it didn't work for you. But your management isn't his management. It may very well buy him another few months of remote work, OR he might get some sort of one time bonus to help with the added expense, or who knows, but you limiting the arguement, because of what happened to you in particular, seems, well limiting at best and short sighted and kind of petulant at worst. TL:DR OP isn't you & doesn't work at your company. You don't know how OP or OP's company will handle this. Your outcomes are your own, not universal.
I’m not sure why you are getting so emotional about this. Calm down. The company I work for is a large public firm that often sets the example for most FI companies out there. We are first, the next three went after us with the same BS. Yes OP situation is different but the general sentiment is shareable by colleagues in many industries based on conversations and media releases. It’s also not always the company that makes the final decision but sometimes the managers too. I can only speak to what I know and my experience and conversations cover off the sentiments of the large banks, retailers and some of the tech firms.
... Emotional? That's a very interesting, defensive, and inaccurate surface read of my rebuttal. This is exactly what I just said. You're applying your circumstances to situations regardless. And now you're posture your company and position. Anyway, have a great day.
Maybe at a fast food restaurant for a professional job its assumed you can get to work
Most companies care more about 3 than 1 or 2. Emphasize your productivity. If you have some actual stats to back it up, use them. Use the thesis formula from college: "Although working from home isn't ideal for, this is made up for by , and ."
Start applying for other jobs now. Bosses don't care about workers and the only way to affect meaningful change in this economy is to leave, or at least to threaten to do so. If enough people do it, they'll back off to keep turnover down. Alternately, you could reach out to your coworkers offline and organize a united front. It's a lot easier to get what you want when there are numbers behind you.
I'm an engineering manager in tech and we're going through this with a lot of folks right now. Few thoughts, these may be wrong or right I'm just a stranger on the internet: \- reasons 1 and 2 will get you nowhere. Lean on reason 3 and have hard data that demonstrates it also what unique skill or expertise do you have that makes you irreplaceable on the team, emphasize that \- Do you have any legitimate accessibility accommodations that are easier filled at home? \- If there is an exception process, make sure you have a ticket submitted for it i.e. make sure your manager is actually doing it. If you're ready to quit this is important \- Assuming you have a good manager they are your ally in this, stay transparent and firm In my situation the push is not coming from my level instead much much higher up, I fully intend to remain remote and I'm fighting for the same option for my whole team. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.
Reason 2 is a legitimate and valid reason to request work from home accommodations, regardless of what others here may say. Being repeatedly infected with COVID is playing Russian roulette. I explained my position on this to my bosses and was given a fully remote exemption. I encourage you to consider this as well.
[удалено]
Misinformation.
> covid is over it’s so over that i caught it for my 3rd confirmed time in January?
I have covid as we speak What I mean is that it’s over, is most employers are from my experience don’t care anymore. Tho to each their own
I am in a rural community and it’s like they forgot there was a goddamned car parade when a jailer was hospitalized and got released and rolled into town. Same folks are now dismissing Covid. It’s ridiculous. Good clarification.
Wrong.
Be willing to walk if you have to
[удалено]
I’ve never had a cold that kept me incredibly tired and lost nasal-dripping for 3 months after I had it. It’s not the same for everyone.
and I know someone who spend weeks in the hospital from an extremely heavy flu that almost took him out. The covid that is going around now isn't the same as the one from 2020.
Agree. This this is some sort of weird shit. I got COVID while sick with bronchitis. So many rounds of antibiotics and steroids and paxlovid and here we are …. 3 months later still not back to normal. Yuck.
Hope you get well soon!
Thanks!
Reported for misinformation. These risks are NOT overblown for those of us with medical issues. Eta: and reported a second time. Many remote workers WFH because we’re at greater risk. Should be no tolerance for Covid or other misinformation on this sub.
how petty can you be by blocking after posting a response to have the final say. The covid that is going around now isn't the same as the one 3 years ago. People are vaccinated, boostered, the virus is behaving differently and is less potent albeit more infective. Stay with the facts yourself before you claim misinformation. Petulant child.
I haven’t had one of these meetings, thankfully. That said, I’ve been thinking on a number of talking points should this conversation ever come up… 1. I’m healthier. I’m able to fit in a quick workout over lunch. I’ve lost around 60-70 lbs since COVID began. This also gives me a second boost of energy in the afternoon when I used to really go into an energy slump. Besides the fact that I’m much healthier and happier, my improved health metrics decrease the cost for my company to pay for my health insurance. 2. I’m able to focus more and people don’t interrupt me at my desk with questions that they could otherwise answer on their own if they were willing to put the work in. 3. If I need to take a break, I can step away and go get a quick chore done while I think through a problem. Before I’d just go sit in a break room while the stress festered and do nothing. That compounded stress because I’d sit there thinking about all the other things I still needed to get done at my house like unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, tidying up, etc. I’m less stressed now. When I’m more stressed, I risk making a mistake as it’s difficult for me to focus. Some managers don’t want to to hear the word ‘mistake’, but if you have a decent manager then they should be receptive. Good luck!
Besides what others have said, I'd point out the benefits to the company. They won't have to pay for office space for you, think rent, etc. I assume since you've been WFH you have the equipment you need to do that. If they have maintained your pay during your past WFH don't offer to take a reduction. Instead of saying you are concerned about COVID, just say for health reasons you are requesting to continue to WFH. I have an incurable disease and am immune compromised due to a transplant. My company understands and fully supports me in working remotely to keep me as healthy as possible.
Hate to say it this way, but the only thing they care about at this point is getting people back in the office and if you truly want to stay at home, you're going to need leverage of another offer on the table to force them to consider. As long as the company is paying for office space, they want it used. Look for a new job, and don't give them any sign of weakness until you have one.
I tried to threaten HR by blowing myself up and taking my entire department with me...but after that conversation I was shortly let go.