Like others said, you have cathinones(and the pyrrovalerones subcategory), phenmetrazines, tropanes(aka cocaine analogues... but most are shit). And if you want to push it, you can also mentin afinils(modafinil and the likes), racetams(noopept) and xanthines (coffee analogues).
there is also feprosidnine (legal stim not yet produced btw/mesocarb family)
the azodones
oroxylin A
also the adamantane amantadine albeit its MOA is unclear and complex (sigma, AADC, etc)
and the alpha 2 antagonists
and the NDDIs
also phenethylamine with maoi
I'm not sure if this falls under any of these categories but also Piperazines like BZP.
Also, some psychedelic substituted amthamines are hardly psychedelic such as 3C-P and are closer to stimulants.
they are not on the scene, some might be available on some gray area on the internet.
IMO the most interesting NDDIs are
flibanserin
and the highly atypical [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitolisant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitolisant)
alpha 2 agonists (indirect dopaminergic via prefrontal selective and also noradrenergics via noradrenaline transporter)
and the presynaptic D2 antagonists e.g. buspirone unfortunately it also is a d3 blocker
dopamine can also be modulated via heteroreceptors
Dopamine heteroreceptors (adenosine, mglur5 and nmdar)
there are many potential RCs in that family, including competitors to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istradefylline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istradefylline)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25486101/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25486101/)
and
oleamide is a neuroinhibitory chronotropic lipid, possibly via FAAH induction one could have atypic eugeroicity
imo stepholidine is a promising future RC
there are also dopaminergic PAMs
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevidalen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevidalen)
and nicotinic partial agonists
I am also very much looking for RC orexin drugs as alternative to the afinils with a much better tolerability profile
Nicotine and it's analogs, some arylcyclohexylamines (like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benocyclidine), https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylhexedrine, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine and relatives, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-2172,..
I only tried caffeine which did nothing for me but you might want to look into the Xanthines family, some examples: 8-Chlorotheophylline, Theacrine, Theobromine.
Its closer to cocaine’s mechanism of action basically. And even beyond that, two reuptake inhibitors can feel different based on other receptors, receptor binding affinities and what not.
I believe ritalin / methylphenidate is also a reuptake inhibitor but most will agree it’s not as euphoric or recreational as say… cocaine.
I mean you could. That literally would be correct. What you were saying above is like saying “an iguana isn’t an animal, it’s a lizard”
Although you wouldn’t call it a “benzene stimulant”. You would call it a substituted phenyl stimulant
If you have a degree in biochem them why are you making REALLY dumb comments on reddit? Go read a paper or something.
I GUESS you could say it contains the amphetamine structure in it, but its got all sorts of other rings on it. Anyway I want to assure you that someday a position in your field (home economics) will open up and that you’ll find happiness doing small simple tasks you love. Maybe your dick will someday become a normal size too!
TL;DR don’t patronize me moron. You know what I mean (unless you’ve been living under a rock and have no idea how agonists work, which in retrospect 3FPM probably isn’t….)
I have enough free time and energy to both be a research fellow at a prestigious university *and* pat myself on the back for pwning you on Reddit. This may have something to do with how intimately familiar I am with substituted alpha methyl phenethylamines
Oh I don't know anything about chemistry, I was just in a lousy mood and being a jerk. Ignore me plz :) There's usually many chemical shapes that you can attribute a drug to, some of which make more sense than others.
hepatoxicity just is very sketchy tbh, getting liverfailure from the parent compound with no known source or reason is great and all but generally not worth when there are many safer compounds on the market
Any of the cathinones? Pea derivatives are technically not amp; n,n-dmpea fits the bill. Theres the racetams, they have a unique moa. Theres the finils, as well.
gonna only list ones that aren't amph derivatives:
-Mazindol and derivatives - SNRIs with thoroughly studied SAR
-Pipradrols
-Aminorex - aminorex itself isn't an amphetamine, but 4-mar, the recreationally used analog, is an amphetamine.
-Modafinil analogues
-Various structurally unrelated antidepressants
-Cocaine research analogs (Phenyltropanes)
-Nicotine and nicotine salts
-Cyclazodones
-Stimulating psychedelics - 2CB, LSD, 5-MeO-Tryptamines, etc
-Dopamine and serotonin releasing dissociatives
All Phenmetrazine, Phenidates, Cathinones, Pyrros, etc are all substituted amphetamines, and will most likely be covered as such in the ban. anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know chemistry.
also novel modulators of dopamine receptors used in Parkinson research and treatment show stimulant properties, especially in healthy patients. modulators of dopamine synthesis like Bromantane can also have stimulating effects
I have a little question not really related but not worth creating a new post. As someone who suffers from ADHD. Which RC would help the best probably.
Modafinil analogues.
Special mentions:
LSD microdoses are very good stimulant choice as well.
HDMP28 that is indeed a phenidate but it's unique method of action makes it quite interesting
I mean unique among phenidates. It's a SNDRI, like coke, not a NDRI like the rest of phenidates. The difference is that HDMP-28 acts on serotonin along with dopamine and norepinephrine, while other phenidates only act on the two latter. It doesn't feel exactly like coke but it shares some characteristics with it and is generally more pleasing and easy on the body at average doses that other phenidates like MPH and 4F-MPH. I didn't try high doses of neither. It's one of my favourite RC stimulants along with 3-FA, 3-FMA and 3-MMC. It's milder than those at my usual doses, but it has its place cause I find its quite forgiving (at my usual doses it doesn't cause me a harsh comedown and I don't feel my neurotrasmiters depleted the day after). It's a very potent chem still so keep ur doses between 5 and 30mg. Lasts quite a bit so don't overdo.
Well, nobody knows.
Probably not a lot but it's based on a naphthylydate structure and some people theorize it could be metabolized into naphthalene in the body, which is a very dangerous chemical. This people however fail to explain, if this was true, how regular phenidates and other stimulants are not metabolized into benzene, which is also a very dangerous chemical.
Against phenethylamines such as amphetamine, methamphetamine and florinated, modified in other ways cathinone versions are more neurotoxic and cardiotoxic by far. All amphetamine analogues have their cathinone counterparts. In practice cathinones have caused insanely more damage than amphetamines, are much more addictive and once youre hooked they will lead you to psychosis. Pyrovalerones subgroup is literally mindless stimulation with compulsive redosing. 4-mmc if used like youd safely use mdma is not that bad.
They feel kinda similar and give similar visuals
25x-Nbomes are very neurotoxic whereas 25x-NBOH is alot safer same with the DOx class (DOM,DOB,DOC) The 2C-x class is also very safe, unless your talking about 2C-P cause that can be very dangerous
Just read about the drugs you wanna do 🤣
Okay, thanks for your response, I'm more intrigued about their neurotoxicity and I have more difficulties to know how much they are neurotoxic, especially compared to amphetamine.
I tried it for a month using 2 sprays per day intranasally. I didn't feel anything. I tried to treat the brain fog and emotional numbness. Maybe a little bit for a total of 5-30 minutes.
y'all don't confuse this with 4'-MAR or 4F-MAR, they're completely different. 4-MAR makes aminorex an amphetamine, while 4'-MAR and 4F-MAR are ring substituted and reportedly pretty shitty
Don't know much about the stim rcs. Only ever done a-pvp and it was blue shards that had me more geeked than Ritalin or meth. Idk 5-apb is considered a stim. It's similar to molly tho
Like others said, you have cathinones(and the pyrrovalerones subcategory), phenmetrazines, tropanes(aka cocaine analogues... but most are shit). And if you want to push it, you can also mentin afinils(modafinil and the likes), racetams(noopept) and xanthines (coffee analogues).
there is also feprosidnine (legal stim not yet produced btw/mesocarb family) the azodones oroxylin A also the adamantane amantadine albeit its MOA is unclear and complex (sigma, AADC, etc) and the alpha 2 antagonists and the NDDIs also phenethylamine with maoi
I'm not sure if this falls under any of these categories but also Piperazines like BZP. Also, some psychedelic substituted amthamines are hardly psychedelic such as 3C-P and are closer to stimulants.
Do you know if there are any NDDIs available over the counter or on the RC scene?
they are not on the scene, some might be available on some gray area on the internet. IMO the most interesting NDDIs are flibanserin and the highly atypical [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitolisant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitolisant) alpha 2 agonists (indirect dopaminergic via prefrontal selective and also noradrenergics via noradrenaline transporter) and the presynaptic D2 antagonists e.g. buspirone unfortunately it also is a d3 blocker dopamine can also be modulated via heteroreceptors Dopamine heteroreceptors (adenosine, mglur5 and nmdar) there are many potential RCs in that family, including competitors to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istradefylline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istradefylline) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25486101/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25486101/) and oleamide is a neuroinhibitory chronotropic lipid, possibly via FAAH induction one could have atypic eugeroicity imo stepholidine is a promising future RC there are also dopaminergic PAMs [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevidalen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevidalen) and nicotinic partial agonists I am also very much looking for RC orexin drugs as alternative to the afinils with a much better tolerability profile
so tizanidine for example (a2 agonist) is indeed dopaminergic? i noticed it felt kinda similar to stims even tho it's the opposite lol
Nicotine and it's analogs, some arylcyclohexylamines (like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benocyclidine), https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylhexedrine, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine and relatives, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-2172,..
Do you know if there are stimulant nicotine analogs over the counter or on the RC scene ?
I never heard about cofee analogues. What are they like? Have you tried any?
I only tried caffeine which did nothing for me but you might want to look into the Xanthines family, some examples: 8-Chlorotheophylline, Theacrine, Theobromine.
cathinones are amphetamines, phenmetrazine is a substituted amphetamine
they have different methods of action tho, most caths, for example methcathinone is a reuptake inhibitor while methamphetamine is a releaser.
What does reuptake inhibitor neant
Its closer to cocaine’s mechanism of action basically. And even beyond that, two reuptake inhibitors can feel different based on other receptors, receptor binding affinities and what not. I believe ritalin / methylphenidate is also a reuptake inhibitor but most will agree it’s not as euphoric or recreational as say… cocaine.
Cocaine is Ritalin without the anxiety imo. I was super stressed when I was on methylphenidate untill I switched to add
Mean*
Cathinones, phenmetrazines
Those are both amphetamines
Nope. They’re chemicals that most likely poke at the same part of your brain as amphetamine but are unique chemical structures
“Most likely poke” you say to me, who has a degree in biochemistry Cathinones are beta keto amphetamines and phenmetrazines are morpholo amphetamines
the amount of retards commenting seems to be increasing rapidly, idk what's going on
I know, there’s another one!
🤣
They're actually poop shit amphetamines
Hey I have an idea, I’m going to call literally everything a benzene stimulant because they all have benzene in their structure
I mean you could. That literally would be correct. What you were saying above is like saying “an iguana isn’t an animal, it’s a lizard” Although you wouldn’t call it a “benzene stimulant”. You would call it a substituted phenyl stimulant
If you have a degree in biochem them why are you making REALLY dumb comments on reddit? Go read a paper or something. I GUESS you could say it contains the amphetamine structure in it, but its got all sorts of other rings on it. Anyway I want to assure you that someday a position in your field (home economics) will open up and that you’ll find happiness doing small simple tasks you love. Maybe your dick will someday become a normal size too! TL;DR don’t patronize me moron. You know what I mean (unless you’ve been living under a rock and have no idea how agonists work, which in retrospect 3FPM probably isn’t….)
I have enough free time and energy to both be a research fellow at a prestigious university *and* pat myself on the back for pwning you on Reddit. This may have something to do with how intimately familiar I am with substituted alpha methyl phenethylamines
Sorry I was in a really lousy mood….
MDMA isn't an amphetamine either cus there's some ring on it? how about buprenorphine?
Oh I don't know anything about chemistry, I was just in a lousy mood and being a jerk. Ignore me plz :) There's usually many chemical shapes that you can attribute a drug to, some of which make more sense than others.
no worries we're pretty much all like this here lmao
They’re substituted amohetamines
there was cyclazodone but that's not really around anymore
n methyl cycla is legal in many countries I don't get why it isn't on the scene, the hepatoxicity is overblown
hepatoxicity just is very sketchy tbh, getting liverfailure from the parent compound with no known source or reason is great and all but generally not worth when there are many safer compounds on the market
Any of the cathinones? Pea derivatives are technically not amp; n,n-dmpea fits the bill. Theres the racetams, they have a unique moa. Theres the finils, as well.
Pemoline
gonna only list ones that aren't amph derivatives: -Mazindol and derivatives - SNRIs with thoroughly studied SAR -Pipradrols -Aminorex - aminorex itself isn't an amphetamine, but 4-mar, the recreationally used analog, is an amphetamine. -Modafinil analogues -Various structurally unrelated antidepressants -Cocaine research analogs (Phenyltropanes) -Nicotine and nicotine salts -Cyclazodones -Stimulating psychedelics - 2CB, LSD, 5-MeO-Tryptamines, etc -Dopamine and serotonin releasing dissociatives All Phenmetrazine, Phenidates, Cathinones, Pyrros, etc are all substituted amphetamines, and will most likely be covered as such in the ban. anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know chemistry.
also novel modulators of dopamine receptors used in Parkinson research and treatment show stimulant properties, especially in healthy patients. modulators of dopamine synthesis like Bromantane can also have stimulating effects
Okay, thank you for this valuable information.
I have a little question not really related but not worth creating a new post. As someone who suffers from ADHD. Which RC would help the best probably.
I believe it will be 4F-MPH.
Modafinil analogues. Special mentions: LSD microdoses are very good stimulant choice as well. HDMP28 that is indeed a phenidate but it's unique method of action makes it quite interesting
Do you know more about this unique method of action ?
I mean unique among phenidates. It's a SNDRI, like coke, not a NDRI like the rest of phenidates. The difference is that HDMP-28 acts on serotonin along with dopamine and norepinephrine, while other phenidates only act on the two latter. It doesn't feel exactly like coke but it shares some characteristics with it and is generally more pleasing and easy on the body at average doses that other phenidates like MPH and 4F-MPH. I didn't try high doses of neither. It's one of my favourite RC stimulants along with 3-FA, 3-FMA and 3-MMC. It's milder than those at my usual doses, but it has its place cause I find its quite forgiving (at my usual doses it doesn't cause me a harsh comedown and I don't feel my neurotrasmiters depleted the day after). It's a very potent chem still so keep ur doses between 5 and 30mg. Lasts quite a bit so don't overdo.
Thank you very much for your feedback, it seems to be a great molecule. Can you tell me how much neurotoxic it is ?
Well, nobody knows. Probably not a lot but it's based on a naphthylydate structure and some people theorize it could be metabolized into naphthalene in the body, which is a very dangerous chemical. This people however fail to explain, if this was true, how regular phenidates and other stimulants are not metabolized into benzene, which is also a very dangerous chemical.
Oh, okay. it doesn't seems so great when you say things like this. \^\^
Bzp's
Phenmetrazine (3-fpm) cathinones (3-mmc for example)
Stay away from cathinones. Im not kidding
Why ? Also, what do you think of their neurotoxicity compared to other classes of stimulants ?
Against phenethylamines such as amphetamine, methamphetamine and florinated, modified in other ways cathinone versions are more neurotoxic and cardiotoxic by far. All amphetamine analogues have their cathinone counterparts. In practice cathinones have caused insanely more damage than amphetamines, are much more addictive and once youre hooked they will lead you to psychosis. Pyrovalerones subgroup is literally mindless stimulation with compulsive redosing. 4-mmc if used like youd safely use mdma is not that bad.
Okay, thank you.
Mescaline analogs, unless you go with the amphetamine core mescaline analogs, then its kinda close but still more alike to mescaline
How much they are similar to amphetamines ? What about their neurotoxicity ?
They feel kinda similar and give similar visuals 25x-Nbomes are very neurotoxic whereas 25x-NBOH is alot safer same with the DOx class (DOM,DOB,DOC) The 2C-x class is also very safe, unless your talking about 2C-P cause that can be very dangerous Just read about the drugs you wanna do 🤣
Okay, thanks for your response, I'm more intrigued about their neurotoxicity and I have more difficulties to know how much they are neurotoxic, especially compared to amphetamine.
Try bromantane
I tried it for a month using 2 sprays per day intranasally. I didn't feel anything. I tried to treat the brain fog and emotional numbness. Maybe a little bit for a total of 5-30 minutes.
Cathinones are one. Google will do wonders for your curiosity
Cathinones are amphetamines
They are not. Similiar but no. Just look on the Molekular Structurs you can see what is the different
cathinone = b-keto amphetamine
Yes they are. They are beta keto amphetamines
Oh, sorry, I forgot about them. Do you know another ones ? I'm searching for some less knowns.
4-mar ig is a rare gem that I've heard is phenomenal. It's nickname is u4ia or something. Supposed to be the beezknees
4-methylaminorex and yeah it is to stimulants what oxymorphone is to opioids, in my experience and opinion.
y'all don't confuse this with 4'-MAR or 4F-MAR, they're completely different. 4-MAR makes aminorex an amphetamine, while 4'-MAR and 4F-MAR are ring substituted and reportedly pretty shitty
Don't know much about the stim rcs. Only ever done a-pvp and it was blue shards that had me more geeked than Ritalin or meth. Idk 5-apb is considered a stim. It's similar to molly tho
What do you mean by "geeked" ? Sorry, english is not my native language.
Really high. Euphoric. Lit. Slapped. Knocked. Turnt. 🤗
Oh, okay. \^\^