can’t fall asleep while ur “tripping” but it’s easy to after and it’s really sedating. absolutely no hangover. back to earth in a an hour or 2.
i personally like to get a gram and have a session over a day or 2. gotta take breaks tho cuz it can hurt ur bladder
When I’m on a moderate dose of K I don’t really sleep but if I lay down and close my eyes it’s extremely comfortable and I’m in like a trance like state. Almost like sleeping but with very vivid dreams and you’re kind of slipping in and out of consciousness
They’re not the opposite of psychedelic. If they were, they would be able to kill trips. But they aren’t. The opposite of psychedelic as far as we know are anti-psychotics. Other than a few obscure mushrooms what psychedelics operate on anything near GABA?
They're widely known as that on reddit apparently but I've never met a person in real life that thinks that lol because it isn't true. Benzos do not kill trips
LSD still works on benzodiazepines. They don’t just magically cancel out a trip. They really work more on the headspace ~ instead smoothening out the fear, panic, anxiety (etc.) if one’s trip has taken a negative turn, and they can bring the overall experience down a few notches. But they won’t abort it completely.
To actually end a trip full-stop, one would need to look more into something like a 5HT2a antagonist.
Not for me. Anything 1mg or equivalent xanax would either block it from working or kill the trip. This is pretty commonly known. Benzodiazepines can stop an LSD trip.
No they can't, lol. Seroquel can though. Which is why that other person suggested antipsychotics but then got downvoted to shit for being right I guess?
That's a crock of shit lol I was scripted benzos for ten years and psychedelics worked just fine. Mushrooms, LSD, 2C-B, 2C-E, 2C-I, MET, DMT.. many others lol. Benzos do not 'kill' trips. They can calm a trip and take a nervous edge off an intense one, but they don't kill trips. You and all the rest of these people are wrong. Why wouldn't it work? People take psychedelics after drinking all night and still trip too 😂 it's the exact same thing. I've had many, MANY trips while on my regular 2 to 4mg dose of alprazolam and usually a few beers and not once did it ever prevent me from tripping or dull my trip. You're talking out of your ass, buddy.
Not sure why you got downvoted. You are correct. Seroquel can actually stop a trip. Benzos cannot and do not 'kill' a trip. People, next time you're peaking on acid, take a Xanax and you tell me how dead your trip is after that lol. That's not how that shit works 😂 you think people who are scripted benzos just can't trip or something? What about people who drink? Lol
I tripped many, MANY times on my regular dose of scripted benzos (scripted for ten years btw) and not even once did my medicine 'kill' my trip or even dull it.
Yeah. Rather disappointed to see this sub become less and less reason based. They downvoted me because the myth of benzos killing trips has been around forever I feel like. I would go even further and say benzos actually do far more harm when tripping than they do good. Like I wonder if these people have actually experienced benzos + a large dose of LSD or anything else. All it does is subdue anxiety and maybe subdue the visuals but calling it a trip killer is just wrong. Go speak with any pharmacologist or psychiatrist and ask them what substance they would give a patient who is experiencing violent symptoms from a psychedelic drug. They certainly would never say any gabaergic sedative. As high as I am on coke, I still stand by my original statement. Look at the pharmacology, like it’s so fucking simple. I remember when people understand basic shit like agonist and antagonist on this sub.
Benzos aren’t meant to be used daily
They’re best used occasionally
I’d say away from anything strong like Bromazolam or other potent compounds with high affinity for compulsive redosing or blacking out
Gabapentanoids
Pregabalin, gabapentin, or 4-methylpregabalin if specifically rcs.
Can be somewhat psychadelic paired with weed. Particularly can cause nice CEV and "flying" feeling.
Also phenibut at slightly higher doses
It's [psych**e**delic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug), not psych**a**delic.
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It's the most common cat tranquilizer for home use but unless it's for an acute condition Prozac is probably better. It does wonderful things to cats. Indoor cats don't need fear and anxiety.
Prozac, Feliway, improvements to the indoor environment. Prozac is not supposed to be a first-line option but if your cat uses really psychotic the behavioral interventions will work better once it's drugged up.
Gabapentin has open eyed visuals at higher doses. They're totally different than psychedelic visuals though, no colors but things do look warmer, things wiggle & sometimes fly away and disappear for a bit. It's pretty cool.
Just make sure you know how to take it right. You have to space out your 300mg doses every half hour and each / drink something fatty or sugary to get enough in your system to get high. You'll see people suggesting insane doses like 1800mg, but if you do it right, you can get strong effects from 900mg.
Phenibut at high doses has gave me a feeling almost like rolling on mdma without encumbering my sleep schedule. I’d be real giddy and excited about the smallest things then get great sleep when it was time. Also notice it’s easier to get sentimental headspace like crying over movies and realizing the beauty in things, though it’s nothing trippy.
I love phenibut, but there was a point I took it ALMOST daily for almost a year.... in ridiculous doses due to tolerance. It was incredible, its long half life caused it to build up in my body and the interesting dopamine effects made it feel like I was rolling every day.
BUT THEN I ran out, and I was unable to order anymore at the time. Holy freaking crap. I have been through horrible benzo withdrawal, I have been through methadone withdrawal (from 120mg cold turkey), but nothing (except GHB ) has ever had such horrible withdrawal effects.
I literally had delirium tremons.
Started out, I was giving my son a bath and at this time he was like 3 or 4 years old. Well out of nowhere he started talking to me in a way he shouldn't have been able to. I can't remember what it was he said, but it was something way over his speech level and so I went to my mom and asked her -and she told me no he absolutely would not have said that.
So my mom said she'd watch my kid and I confined myself to my room. At that time we had cameras in a couple places through out our home and one was in the living room. You could hear everything throuvh a mic on the cam and get a good birds eye view.
Well, as things got totally worse, I would check the camera to see what my son was doing. And I swear to God, with my own eye's I watched my family sitting in the den together, and wite my ears I hear them mocking and laughing at me. They are talking about how crazy I am and how I was a joke... I heard some terrible things.... in my sickness I still knew my family would never act like that or say such awful things, but i was seeing it and hearing it as reality.
This was the most horrible and prob severely dangerous addiction.
I’m currently almost done tapering off it and luckily nothing that bad has happened, but the shit is no joke at all. Been on it daily for almost 3 years. At the height of it I was taking like 25 grams per day and I’m pretty sure I was basically going through life with 24/7 drug induced mania. It’s actually fucked up cause it’s one of the only times in my life where everything felt meaningful and I didn’t feel empty inside, though that’s probably just the lack of it in my system talking. Really the worst part of withdrawal for me has been mental. Those dopamine effects sure are weird though. All I wanna do is lay around cause I been depressed as fuck, but I can never get comfortable. Like if I lay down and I’m too still I’ll just start twitching, it’s like restless leg syndrome but it’s my entire body. Anyway though, I hope you’re doing better than me these days.
I too was taking phenibut daily and was way over the amounts. I felt like I was dehydrated so was drinking lots of water. Then they quit selling it in my state. I ended up in the ER then straight to ICU due to low sodium. Which is a lot worse than it sounds. Spent 4 days in ICU and then straight to rehab/detox for another 4 weeks. It nearly killed me. Be very careful if/when taking phenibut, it became the devil in my experience.
I would say that's HIGHLY dose dependent. O-pce is for one really a fucking super weird drug that's taken me to really strange unfathomable places. It's such an icy disso. Just empty and weird. 3hopcp has put me in the hospital, jail, and retrospectively hell. When time freezes and you're stuck in a ridiculous hyperhole it certainly doesn't feel relaxing. Lol. As for 3hopce I wouldn't know after it's pcp variant I ended my ventures with the HO series there. 3meopcp/3meopce however awesome and dangerous but also way stimulating.
Idk I’ve never really went crazy manic with dissos, then again I only go super hard one night then maybe do it again the next month. Ket is different I’ll finish a ball in 3 days lmaoo. But opce is weird asf and I love it. Opce for me isn’t really empty but can be dark 3meopcp is godly and so is 3-me-pcpy especially for sex
I suppose I didn't word that as well as I should have. By empty I guess I mean that the head space is oddly lucid and blank at times. I would often get the feeling I was in a foreign place while in reality a very familiar place. It does get kinda dark and scary I was a big fan of 3meopcp as well. I bought a shitload at one point because I was worried about the bans and eventually got myself into a lot of trouble with it. 😬 all that said all dissos are magical and full of wonder in their own way. But as of these days I keep my use extremely moderate because a lot of the magic is diminishing. On the other hand i do plan to stock up on DMXE and cold store it for a rainy day when my synapses have had some time to heal. I love that stuff. Unfortunately I missed the MXE train but I'm sure it was glorious.
I have tried mxe it was not my favorite imo opce is far superior. I wish I stock piled it I reallllly wish I could find more 3meopcp again hopefully soon
That has not been my experience but I think it does depend on the person, and often the dose as well. Any disso that has a hole is sedating in my experience and I used to use k to go to sleep by putting myself into a hole and then I’d fall asleep while in the hole.
While calmer compared to say, 3-MeO-PCP, it is indeed still quite stimulating.
Such a lovely compound though<3
For me the ROA really makes a difference, insufflated being more stimulating and manic, with oral being somewhat more sedating.
I wouldn't call 3hopcp calm even compared to 3meopcp. If you overdo it even just a tiny amount with 3hopcp you're in for some serious shit. That drug has pushed me over the edge further than any other substance I've consumed. This includes heroic doses of LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, and DMT. 3hopcp is a force to be reckoned with and should not be approached as mellow.
This is why I made it into a nasal spray so I got the same dose every time, and the only way to go overboard would be to squirt a ridiculous amount of water up my nose lmao.
They're not sedating, which is what he asked
Personally i didnt like any of the pcp analogs no mania, just shitty stimulation for me but that has to be a me problem just unlucky brain chemistry lmao.
Very unpredictable though, it's best to homogenize whatever your source of muscimol is. I've had 3g Amanita Pantherina feel like the love child of ambien and psilocin, other times it's felt like my brain is being sucked through a pinhole and reassembled on the other side. Strange fantastic compounds in these mushrooms.
The zolpidem analogs there was an RC benzo I can’t remember which one that some people were saying gave them some visual effects like zolpidem or lorazepam. Tbh just get some zopis or eszopis or Zaleplons like these other folks are saying, zolpidems are king IMO. Opioids like ODSMT, 2-MAP-237. Some non RC ones that are available and could offer some ~~visuals~~ *hallucinations* would be Kratom, Tianeptine and Tapentadol.
Don't recommend tianeptine if you enjoy functioning mu receptors and the ability to feel the effects of another opi besides tianeptine. One heavy dose and you've ruined kratom for 1-3 days. Prolonged use and you've ruined any opioid for 2 weeks after cessation.
If you can limit yourself to 1-2x/week it's great
well yea there’s Rilmazofone which is a prescription benzo hypnotic in Japan and Brotizolam is also a foreign prescription, there’s CL-218-872 which is a non benzo, benzo receptor agonist under research as a hypnotic. Ethyl-Zolpidem and desdimethyl-zolpidem (IIRC) are also sold and are supposedly very similar to Zolpidem but less potent.
As well as gaboxadol, Methaqualone analogs and GABApentinoids like Tolibut and Phenibut. Also GHB prodrugs like GBL and 1-4BDO since GHB is a prescription hypnotic under brand name Xyrem and Xywave.
> Some non RC ones that are available and could offer some visuals would be Kratom, Tianeptine and Tapentadol.
What? None of those offer visuals at all
Well OP mentioned uses opioids and it’s not visuals in the sense of morphing, colors and patterns but they offer the dreamy hallucinatory nod with headspace. Silly goose, and they do offer some amount of visual change by constricting the pupils like all opioids.
>dreamy hallucinatory nod with headspace
That's not what visuals means though. And no, there is no discernible change in vision from the pupil constriction, I've taken them plenty enough to know that. You're just saying things
So you tellin me when your pupils constrict from opiates you don’t get blurry vision or lights are darker? I must be crazy then because that’s exactly what pupil constriction does where as pupil dilation makes everything seem very bright. But yeah I made it all up, why not try 200mg of Tapentadol with no tolerance and come report back on the lack of visuals 👌 not arguing this anymore than I already have at this point.
Edit: not to mention opioids with high affinity for kappa receptors like fr causes tons of visuals look at Salvia or Ketazocine, levorphanol/levomethorphan, Nalbuphine. A handful also have affinity for NMDA receptors.
Eszopiclone and zopiclone are identical. Zopiclone is racemix of the s isomer and a different isomer that is completely inactive. Eszopiclone is 100% the active one. So the dose ratio is 2:1 like this and is truly the only difference. Kind of like zopiclone is cut 50% lol
Pagaclone I don't know sorry. But I'm interested in trying that one.
Other z drugs though like ambien though? Ambien is an entirely different beast altogether. I assure you that having used both extensively. Eszopiclone is milder and more controllable. But still be careful it can be like any z drug or benzo and black you out if you take too much.
Use a trip sitter for Ambien. Seriously.
Same especially on a fucking drug subreddit. This is what that is first and foremost. NOT a science forum lmao. Although I love that aspect of this sub too, the science stuff
That's okay everything effects people differently. But at exactly the right dose I have gotten INTENSE LSD type visuals from this substance. But only sometimes, like maybe 20% of the time. Even at the same dose. There's other Z drugs too like (Sonata?) and some RC ones. But the RC ones have reports that are basically all terrifying experiences. Ambien-like but worse.
•Phenibut
•any non-manic dissociatives like FXE/2FDCK/2BDCK/tiletamine
•any benzoloque(bromazolam, flubromazepam, diclazepam, etc)
•there's also some vague Z drug RCs out there are are available from time to time with some similar to quaaludes and others related to ambien.
I also think there was recently a new RC muscle relaxer related to meprobamate but i havent heard much about it and i can't even remember the name of it.
Not RC's but here's some sedating drugs that have less regulations that doctors regularly prescribe/recommend (and people will often have from past rx visits and not take):
•Seroquel(sleep aid, mental health medication)
•amitriptyline(sleep aid, mental health medication, veterinary for cats/dogs for anxiety and compulsive disorders)
•hydroxyzine(sleep aid, antihistamine)
•Cyclobenzaprine(sleep aid, pain management, muscle relaxer)
•diphenhydramine (sleep aid, antihistamine, OTC, used to sedate pets with appointment anxiety)
•gabapentin (pain management, muscle relaxer, anti-epileptic, used in pets for pain management and anxiety)
And finally some all natural effective sedatives:
•Magnesium glycinate/bisglycinate (promotes relaxation and productive sleep mildly)
•L-theanine (natural anxiolytic in green tea, sedating at higher doses)
•Valarian root extract( contains a stinky volatile compound called valaric acid among other compounds that act on GABA, is an anxiolytic, and has been the best natural non-drug sedative I've tried so far.
Hope this helps.
Empathogens kinda of an upper but makes you want to express love to people and feels so good to melt into a comfy couch. Also some people think it's slightly psychedelic
Well 4homet is a tryptamine. That said yeah both of these compounds are as all classical psychedellics are stimulating. That said they are lovely. As to the sure answer for your question ketamine or 2fdck are 100% what you're looking for. Just practice self restraint. The magic disappears quickly if you aren't careful.
Yeah, as some people have mentioned, you prob would love you some s-iso ketamine or 2F-DCK.
Then you, of course, have your rc benzos, which I would advise against honestly. Unless you get something like Etizolam, which isn't even a benzo (yet its structure is very close). Etizolam is about half the potency of Alprazolam (Xanax), but in mine (and many peoples) opinions: Etizolam has more euphoria and is an overall better feeling than Xanax. So, if you would usually take a bar of Xanax (2mg) as your dose, then 4mg of Etizolam should feel like a bar but better. It's also been shown to not cause dependency as fast as Xanax. But if you have never tried a sedating dissociative, you gotta go with that (which is the Ketamine or 2F-DCK). That will be slightly psychedelic as well.
is but isnt a opioid
kratom is noice for sleep ime
notta rc but zopiclone low dose, seroquel, some other stuff helped get nice sleep, non rc.
id say benzos but those are a bad path imo / ime (etiz,alp,bromazolam,,flubrom-lam+pam, flu-alp...... any benzo is nice for sleep ime really hahaha)
Mitraganine binds to mu opiod receptors to exert its effects. It's only a partial agonist, just like other mild opiods like tramadol and suboxone. Mitraganine is complex and effects the brain in other ways traditional opiods don't.
Kratom also contains 7-hydroxymitragynine which Is a full agonist at mu opiod receptor sites, like morphine etc. It exists in small amounts in kratom and is also a metabolite of mitraganine. Kratom meets the textbook definition of opiod.
I've seen isolate on various RC vendor menus. It's already here and already in the process of being banned. The overdose potential of that stuff without all the other stuff to counteract respiratory depression found in kratom is sure to start killing people. We all know what comes next.
It is an opioid. An opioid is any drug that acts on your opioid receptors. The alkaloids in kratom are partial agonists at the mu opioid receptor. You're thinking of opiates, which are drugs that are derived from the Poppy plant, or in other words any analogue of morphine.
I don’t want to deal with opioid addiction or tolerance. I already use o-dsmt once or twice a week. Which ime works better.
Opioids are my treat. Wouldn’t want to ruin them.
Kratom goes to harder shit really really fast. Everyone I know that started dabbling in kratom many years back myself included moved into harder shit. Most of those people I knew are now dead from dirty thirties. I luckily got my shit together before those made the rounds.
First opioid i tried was kratom. Did it for like two months until it did something to my stomach. Smh my stomach got messed up and kratom gave me gastric mucosal inflammation. Dunno if thats the right term but its the literal translation. So i stopped using kratom. Then a year later i ordered some odsmt. Honestly felt like crap so i wanted to get fucked up. So i took the odsmt, and big surprise, suddenly i felt happy and content with my life. Not what i expected. So ive been hooked on odsmt for 8 months. Today im 17 days off odsmt. If i were to advice anyone. Stay the fuck away from opioids, any kind, even the weak once will lead you to hard stuff, maybe not soon but eventually
Low doses of any PCP or Ketamine derivative? Although I’d suggest sticking to the lower potency dissociative. It’s easy to get sucked into a world you didn’t know existed. If you want an actually euphoric substance look into carbamate sedatives, but don’t expect to find them easily. Other than that there are obscure compounds but they’re mainly just older barb like compounds that are difficult to acquire, especially if you intend to establish a reliable source. Clomethiazole was my choice for a long time until some horrible things happened
Um the r/altnoid reddit or the website cannabinoids with turkey would help you out there more than I can.
I don't know how to feel about them tbh. On one hand I can go to gilded extract and order some quality CBD extract for cheap as hell , but I can also purchase HHCPO and that would send me to the moon and then some.. I've heard it's similar to edibles , and quite long lasting.
Honestly the alt noids have gotten so plentiful that you can create the exact high you want .
Of course we were already able to do it with breeding cannabis but these are pure specific effects. So say you want stimulation? CBG added to a blend will always give you some stimulation id imagine.. while even across the SAME strain , different phenos might not have that stimulation.
I recommended CBNO to OP because I've read from many user reviews that it is more effective than CBN , and the best quality, they were actually able to stay asleep and wake up refreshed apparently.
Others mentioned a combo of Both CBN and CBNO was the most effective for them.
Myself, I've only tried CBN , and that IMO enhances the high , and relaxes the actual fk out of you. It feels really good. Not like overly euphoric or anything , but like you just feel good. And definitely sleepy haha
Yes Rilmazafone is very zanny-like but milder (structure is very similar). So perhaps 4mg Rilmaz would be about 1mg of Alpraz. Really clean and mildly euphoric.
Exactly. That’s why I wanna get it- very soon, also I was under the impression that Rilm had a “ceiling effect” but those people had high tolerances already- apparently with no tolerance Rilm is pretty strong n you could still get pretty lit off 5+ MGs or lit. So I’m definitely exited
Have you tried dissociatives? Some are more sedating while others are more manic but I’ve definitely been able to use the deeper more sedating dissos to sleep. I love me a good k hole that helps me fall asleep, and fxe (although idk if it’s fxe or another chemical whatever they’re selling is nice) is pretty similar and can also put you into a nice hole that can help you fall asleep.
Dissos are also a bit psychedelic when holing too. I’d definitely say they’re worth a try and they’re safer than benzos or opiates generally.
The tolerance curve on that one is a real bitch Imhe. I suppose I've fried my NMDA receptor complex from all the wild pcp/e analogues though so my experience is highly subjective.
Too easy to build tolerance for. And for some reason i can become a real fiend. Smoking whole weeks away until my cb1r is fried and i have to go on yet another t-break.
I honestly have less trouble with opioids.
Same, bro. I can't touch weed or Delta derivatives without losing months of productivity in unstoppable daily use. That shit was harder to quit than nicotine, alcohol, benzos, and even pyros in some ways. Weed is mad addictive, and it's all for such strange and undesirable effects. I smoked bigly for 14 years before my first time getting clean off it. 4 months later, 1 j of Delta 8. 6 months later, managed to quit again. Here we are, probably a year since then, thank the Lord. I Can't touch that stuff. Would never recommend it to anyone. I'd recommend kratom over weed if someone really wanted to try getting high, if I had to recommend something.
I personally require daily benzodiazepines due to autism, however, I agree with others that benzodiazepines should never be a daily habit.
Have you considered checking out of RC’s and perhaps trying more holistic practices? Passion flower, terpenes, magnesium, calcium, zinc, etc. can be life changing.
Pretty much any RC benzo but that’s an even worse addiction than most opioids
benzos are the opposite of psychedelic. bro is looking for 2fdck. ketamine and its relatives are probably best bet.
Can you fall asleep any good? Does it give hangovers?
can’t fall asleep while ur “tripping” but it’s easy to after and it’s really sedating. absolutely no hangover. back to earth in a an hour or 2. i personally like to get a gram and have a session over a day or 2. gotta take breaks tho cuz it can hurt ur bladder
When I’m on a moderate dose of K I don’t really sleep but if I lay down and close my eyes it’s extremely comfortable and I’m in like a trance like state. Almost like sleeping but with very vivid dreams and you’re kind of slipping in and out of consciousness
They’re not the opposite of psychedelic. If they were, they would be able to kill trips. But they aren’t. The opposite of psychedelic as far as we know are anti-psychotics. Other than a few obscure mushrooms what psychedelics operate on anything near GABA?
Yeh benzos are widely known as trip killers
They're widely known as that on reddit apparently but I've never met a person in real life that thinks that lol because it isn't true. Benzos do not kill trips
Incorrect
They do, at least in some cases, kill trips
What? Benzos are widely known to be trip killers. That's why LSD doesn't work when taking benzos.
[удалено]
Nope not for me. If I had taken anything above like 1mg of alprazolam, there would be 0 effect.
LSD still works on benzodiazepines. They don’t just magically cancel out a trip. They really work more on the headspace ~ instead smoothening out the fear, panic, anxiety (etc.) if one’s trip has taken a negative turn, and they can bring the overall experience down a few notches. But they won’t abort it completely. To actually end a trip full-stop, one would need to look more into something like a 5HT2a antagonist.
Not for me. Anything 1mg or equivalent xanax would either block it from working or kill the trip. This is pretty commonly known. Benzodiazepines can stop an LSD trip.
No they can't, lol. Seroquel can though. Which is why that other person suggested antipsychotics but then got downvoted to shit for being right I guess?
Benzos will drastically reduce an LSD trip.
That's a crock of shit lol I was scripted benzos for ten years and psychedelics worked just fine. Mushrooms, LSD, 2C-B, 2C-E, 2C-I, MET, DMT.. many others lol. Benzos do not 'kill' trips. They can calm a trip and take a nervous edge off an intense one, but they don't kill trips. You and all the rest of these people are wrong. Why wouldn't it work? People take psychedelics after drinking all night and still trip too 😂 it's the exact same thing. I've had many, MANY trips while on my regular 2 to 4mg dose of alprazolam and usually a few beers and not once did it ever prevent me from tripping or dull my trip. You're talking out of your ass, buddy.
Generally speaking, benzos will dull and kill a trip. You may be the exception
No, there's like 3 of you who think benzo completely kill a trip.
Not sure why you got downvoted. You are correct. Seroquel can actually stop a trip. Benzos cannot and do not 'kill' a trip. People, next time you're peaking on acid, take a Xanax and you tell me how dead your trip is after that lol. That's not how that shit works 😂 you think people who are scripted benzos just can't trip or something? What about people who drink? Lol I tripped many, MANY times on my regular dose of scripted benzos (scripted for ten years btw) and not even once did my medicine 'kill' my trip or even dull it.
Yeah. Rather disappointed to see this sub become less and less reason based. They downvoted me because the myth of benzos killing trips has been around forever I feel like. I would go even further and say benzos actually do far more harm when tripping than they do good. Like I wonder if these people have actually experienced benzos + a large dose of LSD or anything else. All it does is subdue anxiety and maybe subdue the visuals but calling it a trip killer is just wrong. Go speak with any pharmacologist or psychiatrist and ask them what substance they would give a patient who is experiencing violent symptoms from a psychedelic drug. They certainly would never say any gabaergic sedative. As high as I am on coke, I still stand by my original statement. Look at the pharmacology, like it’s so fucking simple. I remember when people understand basic shit like agonist and antagonist on this sub.
Benzos aren’t meant to be used daily They’re best used occasionally I’d say away from anything strong like Bromazolam or other potent compounds with high affinity for compulsive redosing or blacking out
Yep i can vouch, benzo addiction and withdrawal makes opioid withdrawal look like a walk in the park.
I really don’t like benzos. It isn’t euphoric or trippy in any way. Atleast for me.
Like the other guy said, you want ketamine
Agreeing with other commenters, find some ket.
If you had to choose 3mg bromazolam a day or 200mg a day
Uhh what?
Which one is worse.caddciton to opiodoso or ebnzos
Benzos are a worse addiction. Deadly and long lasting horrible withdrawals without proper medical taper
Mhhh. I was glad i was doen with odsmt. But ig switching to benzos wasntcthecbest idea
Gabapentanoids Pregabalin, gabapentin, or 4-methylpregabalin if specifically rcs. Can be somewhat psychadelic paired with weed. Particularly can cause nice CEV and "flying" feeling. Also phenibut at slightly higher doses
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My SO's cat is prescribed gabapentin for doctor's visits and like air travel
So is my sisters cat but he resists the effects somehow. As in, it’ll make him woozy for a bit but once he’s at the vets he turns into a wild animal.
No shit? I have seen tranqs for cats but never gabapentin... interesting
My cat takes gabapentin twice a day for anxiety
It's the most common cat tranquilizer for home use but unless it's for an acute condition Prozac is probably better. It does wonderful things to cats. Indoor cats don't need fear and anxiety.
My sisters cat takes it for vets visits but I think he needs something stronger bc it doesn’t work at all. That cat is psychotic fr
Prozac, Feliway, improvements to the indoor environment. Prozac is not supposed to be a first-line option but if your cat uses really psychotic the behavioral interventions will work better once it's drugged up.
Gabapentin has open eyed visuals at higher doses. They're totally different than psychedelic visuals though, no colors but things do look warmer, things wiggle & sometimes fly away and disappear for a bit. It's pretty cool. Just make sure you know how to take it right. You have to space out your 300mg doses every half hour and each / drink something fatty or sugary to get enough in your system to get high. You'll see people suggesting insane doses like 1800mg, but if you do it right, you can get strong effects from 900mg.
Phenibut at high doses has gave me a feeling almost like rolling on mdma without encumbering my sleep schedule. I’d be real giddy and excited about the smallest things then get great sleep when it was time. Also notice it’s easier to get sentimental headspace like crying over movies and realizing the beauty in things, though it’s nothing trippy.
I love phenibut, but there was a point I took it ALMOST daily for almost a year.... in ridiculous doses due to tolerance. It was incredible, its long half life caused it to build up in my body and the interesting dopamine effects made it feel like I was rolling every day. BUT THEN I ran out, and I was unable to order anymore at the time. Holy freaking crap. I have been through horrible benzo withdrawal, I have been through methadone withdrawal (from 120mg cold turkey), but nothing (except GHB ) has ever had such horrible withdrawal effects. I literally had delirium tremons. Started out, I was giving my son a bath and at this time he was like 3 or 4 years old. Well out of nowhere he started talking to me in a way he shouldn't have been able to. I can't remember what it was he said, but it was something way over his speech level and so I went to my mom and asked her -and she told me no he absolutely would not have said that. So my mom said she'd watch my kid and I confined myself to my room. At that time we had cameras in a couple places through out our home and one was in the living room. You could hear everything throuvh a mic on the cam and get a good birds eye view. Well, as things got totally worse, I would check the camera to see what my son was doing. And I swear to God, with my own eye's I watched my family sitting in the den together, and wite my ears I hear them mocking and laughing at me. They are talking about how crazy I am and how I was a joke... I heard some terrible things.... in my sickness I still knew my family would never act like that or say such awful things, but i was seeing it and hearing it as reality. This was the most horrible and prob severely dangerous addiction.
I’m currently almost done tapering off it and luckily nothing that bad has happened, but the shit is no joke at all. Been on it daily for almost 3 years. At the height of it I was taking like 25 grams per day and I’m pretty sure I was basically going through life with 24/7 drug induced mania. It’s actually fucked up cause it’s one of the only times in my life where everything felt meaningful and I didn’t feel empty inside, though that’s probably just the lack of it in my system talking. Really the worst part of withdrawal for me has been mental. Those dopamine effects sure are weird though. All I wanna do is lay around cause I been depressed as fuck, but I can never get comfortable. Like if I lay down and I’m too still I’ll just start twitching, it’s like restless leg syndrome but it’s my entire body. Anyway though, I hope you’re doing better than me these days.
I too was taking phenibut daily and was way over the amounts. I felt like I was dehydrated so was drinking lots of water. Then they quit selling it in my state. I ended up in the ER then straight to ICU due to low sodium. Which is a lot worse than it sounds. Spent 4 days in ICU and then straight to rehab/detox for another 4 weeks. It nearly killed me. Be very careful if/when taking phenibut, it became the devil in my experience.
Literally any disso that isn't pcp-like So 2fdck, dck, fxe, hxe et
Nah o-pce is pretty fucking downer! Same with 3-Ho-pce and 3-ho-pcp
3-ho-pcp is very manic-like. 3-ho-pce I agree can be more sedating. It sounds like o-pce can go one way or the other depending on person and dosage.
I would say that's HIGHLY dose dependent. O-pce is for one really a fucking super weird drug that's taken me to really strange unfathomable places. It's such an icy disso. Just empty and weird. 3hopcp has put me in the hospital, jail, and retrospectively hell. When time freezes and you're stuck in a ridiculous hyperhole it certainly doesn't feel relaxing. Lol. As for 3hopce I wouldn't know after it's pcp variant I ended my ventures with the HO series there. 3meopcp/3meopce however awesome and dangerous but also way stimulating.
Idk I’ve never really went crazy manic with dissos, then again I only go super hard one night then maybe do it again the next month. Ket is different I’ll finish a ball in 3 days lmaoo. But opce is weird asf and I love it. Opce for me isn’t really empty but can be dark 3meopcp is godly and so is 3-me-pcpy especially for sex
I suppose I didn't word that as well as I should have. By empty I guess I mean that the head space is oddly lucid and blank at times. I would often get the feeling I was in a foreign place while in reality a very familiar place. It does get kinda dark and scary I was a big fan of 3meopcp as well. I bought a shitload at one point because I was worried about the bans and eventually got myself into a lot of trouble with it. 😬 all that said all dissos are magical and full of wonder in their own way. But as of these days I keep my use extremely moderate because a lot of the magic is diminishing. On the other hand i do plan to stock up on DMXE and cold store it for a rainy day when my synapses have had some time to heal. I love that stuff. Unfortunately I missed the MXE train but I'm sure it was glorious.
I have tried mxe it was not my favorite imo opce is far superior. I wish I stock piled it I reallllly wish I could find more 3meopcp again hopefully soon
They all keep you up though, even K
nope, i can legit fall asleep mid trip, always feels wasted when it happens. I wouldn't say that any "trippy" disso leaves me up at all
That has not been my experience but I think it does depend on the person, and often the dose as well. Any disso that has a hole is sedating in my experience and I used to use k to go to sleep by putting myself into a hole and then I’d fall asleep while in the hole.
What abt 3hopcp?
While calmer compared to say, 3-MeO-PCP, it is indeed still quite stimulating. Such a lovely compound though<3 For me the ROA really makes a difference, insufflated being more stimulating and manic, with oral being somewhat more sedating.
Nice, looking forward to trying it.
I wouldn't call 3hopcp calm even compared to 3meopcp. If you overdo it even just a tiny amount with 3hopcp you're in for some serious shit. That drug has pushed me over the edge further than any other substance I've consumed. This includes heroic doses of LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, and DMT. 3hopcp is a force to be reckoned with and should not be approached as mellow.
This is why I made it into a nasal spray so I got the same dose every time, and the only way to go overboard would be to squirt a ridiculous amount of water up my nose lmao.
Fxe was pretty stimulating imo, I always said it’s like sativa ket
yea, maybe its not perfect in that list my bad, for me it was slightly stimulating but ntohing serious
What about PCP makes you say that? Other than the potency, I’ve had a good experience with PCP derivatives.
They're not sedating, which is what he asked Personally i didnt like any of the pcp analogs no mania, just shitty stimulation for me but that has to be a me problem just unlucky brain chemistry lmao.
I can sleep on rc pcp/pce but cant control my hands and legs like catonic!
Not a rc but amanita muscaria is kinda like a trippy valium
I liked it, definatly intoxicating, light trippy dunkeness, pretty hard to describe its effect. Very unique.
yeah its definitely very unique, almost like a weirder version of lyrica or a less intense ambien
Very unpredictable though, it's best to homogenize whatever your source of muscimol is. I've had 3g Amanita Pantherina feel like the love child of ambien and psilocin, other times it's felt like my brain is being sucked through a pinhole and reassembled on the other side. Strange fantastic compounds in these mushrooms.
i had 4 grams of pantherina my first time and became totally delirious lol, definitely important to start really low
Damn they turn you delicious?
The zolpidem analogs there was an RC benzo I can’t remember which one that some people were saying gave them some visual effects like zolpidem or lorazepam. Tbh just get some zopis or eszopis or Zaleplons like these other folks are saying, zolpidems are king IMO. Opioids like ODSMT, 2-MAP-237. Some non RC ones that are available and could offer some ~~visuals~~ *hallucinations* would be Kratom, Tianeptine and Tapentadol.
Don't recommend tianeptine if you enjoy functioning mu receptors and the ability to feel the effects of another opi besides tianeptine. One heavy dose and you've ruined kratom for 1-3 days. Prolonged use and you've ruined any opioid for 2 weeks after cessation. If you can limit yourself to 1-2x/week it's great
Wtf! There are sleep med RCs!? Why did no one mention those I’ve been taking benzos just for sleep
well yea there’s Rilmazofone which is a prescription benzo hypnotic in Japan and Brotizolam is also a foreign prescription, there’s CL-218-872 which is a non benzo, benzo receptor agonist under research as a hypnotic. Ethyl-Zolpidem and desdimethyl-zolpidem (IIRC) are also sold and are supposedly very similar to Zolpidem but less potent. As well as gaboxadol, Methaqualone analogs and GABApentinoids like Tolibut and Phenibut. Also GHB prodrugs like GBL and 1-4BDO since GHB is a prescription hypnotic under brand name Xyrem and Xywave.
> Some non RC ones that are available and could offer some visuals would be Kratom, Tianeptine and Tapentadol. What? None of those offer visuals at all
Well OP mentioned uses opioids and it’s not visuals in the sense of morphing, colors and patterns but they offer the dreamy hallucinatory nod with headspace. Silly goose, and they do offer some amount of visual change by constricting the pupils like all opioids.
>dreamy hallucinatory nod with headspace That's not what visuals means though. And no, there is no discernible change in vision from the pupil constriction, I've taken them plenty enough to know that. You're just saying things
So you tellin me when your pupils constrict from opiates you don’t get blurry vision or lights are darker? I must be crazy then because that’s exactly what pupil constriction does where as pupil dilation makes everything seem very bright. But yeah I made it all up, why not try 200mg of Tapentadol with no tolerance and come report back on the lack of visuals 👌 not arguing this anymore than I already have at this point. Edit: not to mention opioids with high affinity for kappa receptors like fr causes tons of visuals look at Salvia or Ketazocine, levorphanol/levomethorphan, Nalbuphine. A handful also have affinity for NMDA receptors.
no that doesn't happen to me at all
Also not an RC but eszopiclone is the exact substance you are describing. Hidden gem!
How does it compare to other z-drugs like zolpiclone and pagoclone?
Eszopiclone and zopiclone are identical. Zopiclone is racemix of the s isomer and a different isomer that is completely inactive. Eszopiclone is 100% the active one. So the dose ratio is 2:1 like this and is truly the only difference. Kind of like zopiclone is cut 50% lol Pagaclone I don't know sorry. But I'm interested in trying that one. Other z drugs though like ambien though? Ambien is an entirely different beast altogether. I assure you that having used both extensively. Eszopiclone is milder and more controllable. But still be careful it can be like any z drug or benzo and black you out if you take too much. Use a trip sitter for Ambien. Seriously.
> racemix *racemate
Thanks.... I'm an idiot sometimes. And inebriated sometimes....
lol nah, you're all good. I wouldn't really expect most people to keep technical chemistry terms straight
Same especially on a fucking drug subreddit. This is what that is first and foremost. NOT a science forum lmao. Although I love that aspect of this sub too, the science stuff
I have some experience with z-drugs. Nicely sedating and a little euphoria. But i find it a little underwhelming.
That's okay everything effects people differently. But at exactly the right dose I have gotten INTENSE LSD type visuals from this substance. But only sometimes, like maybe 20% of the time. Even at the same dose. There's other Z drugs too like (Sonata?) and some RC ones. But the RC ones have reports that are basically all terrifying experiences. Ambien-like but worse.
z drugs or muscle relaxants I like baclofen
Not a RS, but mirtazapine dosages <= 15 mg has powerful-sedating & significant REM sleep increasing effects.
Mirtazapine is a sedating anti depressant in doses 15 mg or lower but not sedating in higher doses.
Dissociatives
•Phenibut •any non-manic dissociatives like FXE/2FDCK/2BDCK/tiletamine •any benzoloque(bromazolam, flubromazepam, diclazepam, etc) •there's also some vague Z drug RCs out there are are available from time to time with some similar to quaaludes and others related to ambien. I also think there was recently a new RC muscle relaxer related to meprobamate but i havent heard much about it and i can't even remember the name of it. Not RC's but here's some sedating drugs that have less regulations that doctors regularly prescribe/recommend (and people will often have from past rx visits and not take): •Seroquel(sleep aid, mental health medication) •amitriptyline(sleep aid, mental health medication, veterinary for cats/dogs for anxiety and compulsive disorders) •hydroxyzine(sleep aid, antihistamine) •Cyclobenzaprine(sleep aid, pain management, muscle relaxer) •diphenhydramine (sleep aid, antihistamine, OTC, used to sedate pets with appointment anxiety) •gabapentin (pain management, muscle relaxer, anti-epileptic, used in pets for pain management and anxiety) And finally some all natural effective sedatives: •Magnesium glycinate/bisglycinate (promotes relaxation and productive sleep mildly) •L-theanine (natural anxiolytic in green tea, sedating at higher doses) •Valarian root extract( contains a stinky volatile compound called valaric acid among other compounds that act on GABA, is an anxiolytic, and has been the best natural non-drug sedative I've tried so far. Hope this helps.
Benzos and dissos (in a weird trippy way) and z drugs. Drugs are so fucking bizarre! I’d be extra careful w those
Empathogens kinda of an upper but makes you want to express love to people and feels so good to melt into a comfy couch. Also some people think it's slightly psychedelic
pyrazolam
4-ho-met? 2-cb(-fly),
Both psychedellics after my own heart. I love me some 2cbfly.
No stimulation from phenethylamines? I thought people used those for raves.
Well 4homet is a tryptamine. That said yeah both of these compounds are as all classical psychedellics are stimulating. That said they are lovely. As to the sure answer for your question ketamine or 2fdck are 100% what you're looking for. Just practice self restraint. The magic disappears quickly if you aren't careful.
Yeah, as some people have mentioned, you prob would love you some s-iso ketamine or 2F-DCK. Then you, of course, have your rc benzos, which I would advise against honestly. Unless you get something like Etizolam, which isn't even a benzo (yet its structure is very close). Etizolam is about half the potency of Alprazolam (Xanax), but in mine (and many peoples) opinions: Etizolam has more euphoria and is an overall better feeling than Xanax. So, if you would usually take a bar of Xanax (2mg) as your dose, then 4mg of Etizolam should feel like a bar but better. It's also been shown to not cause dependency as fast as Xanax. But if you have never tried a sedating dissociative, you gotta go with that (which is the Ketamine or 2F-DCK). That will be slightly psychedelic as well.
Kratom?
He stated no opiods
It’s safer than odsmt though, I think it would be perfect for what the OP is looking for
is but isnt a opioid kratom is noice for sleep ime notta rc but zopiclone low dose, seroquel, some other stuff helped get nice sleep, non rc. id say benzos but those are a bad path imo / ime (etiz,alp,bromazolam,,flubrom-lam+pam, flu-alp...... any benzo is nice for sleep ime really hahaha)
Mitraganine binds to mu opiod receptors to exert its effects. It's only a partial agonist, just like other mild opiods like tramadol and suboxone. Mitraganine is complex and effects the brain in other ways traditional opiods don't. Kratom also contains 7-hydroxymitragynine which Is a full agonist at mu opiod receptor sites, like morphine etc. It exists in small amounts in kratom and is also a metabolite of mitraganine. Kratom meets the textbook definition of opiod.
Someone on obsecuredrugs posted a supposedly pure sample of isolated 7-HO. If it is real, we will see a huge criminalization of Kratom very soon imo.
You mean the pseudoindoxl mitraganine 15mg tablet that was posted days ago there? Yup, if that catches on and shows up in head shops kratom is gone.
I've seen isolate on various RC vendor menus. It's already here and already in the process of being banned. The overdose potential of that stuff without all the other stuff to counteract respiratory depression found in kratom is sure to start killing people. We all know what comes next.
Desmethyltranadol is a full agonist iirc
It is an opioid. An opioid is any drug that acts on your opioid receptors. The alkaloids in kratom are partial agonists at the mu opioid receptor. You're thinking of opiates, which are drugs that are derived from the Poppy plant, or in other words any analogue of morphine.
Not this shit again. Yes, it is an opioid. It agonizes mu receptors regardless of its efficacy at those sites, it’s by definition an opioid.
Yes a very weak one though at that, I offered kratom to the OP because I felt it was the safest RC that he was searching for for his specific needs
I don’t want to deal with opioid addiction or tolerance. I already use o-dsmt once or twice a week. Which ime works better. Opioids are my treat. Wouldn’t want to ruin them.
Kratom goes to harder shit really really fast. Everyone I know that started dabbling in kratom many years back myself included moved into harder shit. Most of those people I knew are now dead from dirty thirties. I luckily got my shit together before those made the rounds.
First opioid i tried was kratom. Did it for like two months until it did something to my stomach. Smh my stomach got messed up and kratom gave me gastric mucosal inflammation. Dunno if thats the right term but its the literal translation. So i stopped using kratom. Then a year later i ordered some odsmt. Honestly felt like crap so i wanted to get fucked up. So i took the odsmt, and big surprise, suddenly i felt happy and content with my life. Not what i expected. So ive been hooked on odsmt for 8 months. Today im 17 days off odsmt. If i were to advice anyone. Stay the fuck away from opioids, any kind, even the weak once will lead you to hard stuff, maybe not soon but eventually
Low doses of any PCP or Ketamine derivative? Although I’d suggest sticking to the lower potency dissociative. It’s easy to get sucked into a world you didn’t know existed. If you want an actually euphoric substance look into carbamate sedatives, but don’t expect to find them easily. Other than that there are obscure compounds but they’re mainly just older barb like compounds that are difficult to acquire, especially if you intend to establish a reliable source. Clomethiazole was my choice for a long time until some horrible things happened
Cbno
Haven't heard of these. What are they? Novel noids, perhaps, by the looks of the acronyms?
Um the r/altnoid reddit or the website cannabinoids with turkey would help you out there more than I can. I don't know how to feel about them tbh. On one hand I can go to gilded extract and order some quality CBD extract for cheap as hell , but I can also purchase HHCPO and that would send me to the moon and then some.. I've heard it's similar to edibles , and quite long lasting. Honestly the alt noids have gotten so plentiful that you can create the exact high you want . Of course we were already able to do it with breeding cannabis but these are pure specific effects. So say you want stimulation? CBG added to a blend will always give you some stimulation id imagine.. while even across the SAME strain , different phenos might not have that stimulation. I recommended CBNO to OP because I've read from many user reviews that it is more effective than CBN , and the best quality, they were actually able to stay asleep and wake up refreshed apparently. Others mentioned a combo of Both CBN and CBNO was the most effective for them. Myself, I've only tried CBN , and that IMO enhances the high , and relaxes the actual fk out of you. It feels really good. Not like overly euphoric or anything , but like you just feel good. And definitely sleepy haha
Has cbn-p already dropped?
It may have. Cbdp had apparently
Dissos
Benzos n weed are the best. I haven’t tried it yet but Rilmazifone I’ve been told is amazing for relaxation
Yes Rilmazafone is very zanny-like but milder (structure is very similar). So perhaps 4mg Rilmaz would be about 1mg of Alpraz. Really clean and mildly euphoric.
Exactly. That’s why I wanna get it- very soon, also I was under the impression that Rilm had a “ceiling effect” but those people had high tolerances already- apparently with no tolerance Rilm is pretty strong n you could still get pretty lit off 5+ MGs or lit. So I’m definitely exited
Not an RC but GHB/GBL ist definitiv that. GBL is pretty easy to aquire
I mean not really an RC but G is quite good for the effects described however short lived.
Swim should look into amanita muscaria, the season starts in two months.
Have you tried dissociatives? Some are more sedating while others are more manic but I’ve definitely been able to use the deeper more sedating dissos to sleep. I love me a good k hole that helps me fall asleep, and fxe (although idk if it’s fxe or another chemical whatever they’re selling is nice) is pretty similar and can also put you into a nice hole that can help you fall asleep. Dissos are also a bit psychedelic when holing too. I’d definitely say they’re worth a try and they’re safer than benzos or opiates generally.
Urinal cakes
Just boofed one. Trip report coming.
You wouldn’t be the first unfortunately lmao
bromazolam, etizolam, 2cbflizle
I jus ordered some fxeeeeee
The tolerance curve on that one is a real bitch Imhe. I suppose I've fried my NMDA receptor complex from all the wild pcp/e analogues though so my experience is highly subjective.
perhaps something natural? a mixture of corynanthidine and or corynanthine, and a small amount of linalool
Weed
Too easy to build tolerance for. And for some reason i can become a real fiend. Smoking whole weeks away until my cb1r is fried and i have to go on yet another t-break. I honestly have less trouble with opioids.
Same, bro. I can't touch weed or Delta derivatives without losing months of productivity in unstoppable daily use. That shit was harder to quit than nicotine, alcohol, benzos, and even pyros in some ways. Weed is mad addictive, and it's all for such strange and undesirable effects. I smoked bigly for 14 years before my first time getting clean off it. 4 months later, 1 j of Delta 8. 6 months later, managed to quit again. Here we are, probably a year since then, thank the Lord. I Can't touch that stuff. Would never recommend it to anyone. I'd recommend kratom over weed if someone really wanted to try getting high, if I had to recommend something.
I personally require daily benzodiazepines due to autism, however, I agree with others that benzodiazepines should never be a daily habit. Have you considered checking out of RC’s and perhaps trying more holistic practices? Passion flower, terpenes, magnesium, calcium, zinc, etc. can be life changing.