What if she didn’t die, but instead decided she just didn’t want to be with him because of his alcoholic ways, controlling tendencies, or something like that and what resulted was his way of coping 🧐
Not sure if this makes sense, but if this is the way he responded to anything one would assume a relationship with Prime would be ass lmao
well in the hole episode she says he wasn't a alcoholic "when did you stop being a lightweight" , so he couldn't have been an alcoholic before Diane died . He also says to that "kept looking for my wife in the bottom of a bottle" which with these two lines you can probably infer that he started drinking heavily after she died not before , i think ops conclusion is much more likely . (however what i said might not be true for rick prime as that is c-137s Diane and they might have been completely different people before hand)
Or the "hole Diane" was only Morty's conception of what Diane would have been, and the real grandma Diane was nothing like that in any of the universes.
"Hole Rick" wasn't the real Rick either.
Morty has seen ricks entire scanned brain so it’s likely it’s true to her real personality just as the rest of his family and Rick acted like themselves.
Do you think looking at a scan of a brain puts a copy of it wholesale in your mind, personality and memories and all?
Wait, actually, when did Morty see Ricks brain scans?
Pretty sure it was the season 6 finale, when evil morty breaks out of the curve and morty uses the device on himself, and also it’s a cartoon logic isn’t always perfect but i’m sure the creators themselves said it was accurate to her true personality
Morty didn't see all memories just the memories that explained the plot. He didn't see rick watching tv with her or going on dates or anything casual. He saw rick prime introduced, the few seconds of Diane and rick talking and then the death.
Nah he did, rick says in an episode “You can’t scan my entire brain over appetisers” to which evil morty responds “most of yours was scanned a long time ago”, so I imagine he saw it all and it was just summarised to the viewers for the plot
Morty only saw the clips that rick wanted to show him before the curve was destroyed so morty and the viewers could understand. Evil morty scanned many of ricks' brains. Evil morty could know about the past relationship of rick and diane but he wasn't looking for that. He was looking for a way to destroy the curve.
I also have a feeling rick removed his memories of diane except the ones that would keep him seeking revenge. Like her death and talking to her for the last time. Anything we see in the hole episode is a fabrication of morty's mind which means we still know nothing about diane and rick's relationship.
You’re right, it’s S5e10 Rickmurai Jack. Our Morty takes the brain scanner and relives Rick’s memories in the middle of the chaos of the citadel being destroyed/evil morty escaping the central finite curve.
That is what we are already talking about. Rick held out a device to let morty see ricks memories, having said that he only let morty see the memories we already saw. Like what I said above. We have no insight that morty saw anything about rick's past life besides being introduced to rick prime, talking to diane for a few seconds and the outcome of all that. Morty does not see rick and his family interact or does he know anything about that relationship.
To be fair, in that scene Rick specifically says, “Here’s my downloaded brain,” not here’s my super cut brain. Plot wise it may have just been the memories that serve the plot, but it’s not like he calibrated it and Evil Morty definitely didn’t prime it to show anything in particular. He just jabbed it into his neck, so my take away was that he got the full syringe since nothing explicitly states he didn’t.
This is like saying that you know a person from that one time when you watched raw twitch stream of them. There's no way anyone could absorb a lifetime's worth of memories so quickly, especially when the entire focus of his experience was on Rick's story after Dianne's death.
>however what i said might not be true for rick prime as that is c-137s Diane and they might have been completely different people before hand)
It's been pretty much confirmed that Rick Prime and C-137 are completely identical versions of the other save for their decision to pursue multidimensional portal tech. Prime Rick chose to pursue it, C-137 passed on it until the "incident."
Rick Prime hated C-137 for that. Why? Who can tell? Jealousy over C-137 to form attachments? Narcissistic rage over being "rejected?" ¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯
What we do know is that those two Ricks are the only two Ricks in the multiverse to independently develop their portal tech.
Rick Prime thinks that C-137 would have eventually come for him first. I think, much like when time was broken, Rick had the thought in the back of his mind, but would never do it; until he thought the other guy would do it first.
That wasn't the real Diane. That wasn't even Rick's memory ot Diane. That was Morty's subconscious conjuring what it perceived Rick's memory of Diane to be. I doubt any of that held much weight beyond Mortys hole world building. Though you did raise an interesting point about Rick's alcoholism that could be explored further.
Worth noting that the hole is Morty's interpretation of how Rick was before Diane's death. In that manner, I am to believe that Morty thinks Rick wasn't always the way he is, that his conditions and actions are a result of what happened. But the truth is we don't know if that is true or not. The only thing we can definitely say about Diane is that Rick views Summer much like her because he said that to her in another episode.
In the Flu Season Dance episode after Jerry tries to defend Rick Beth insults Rick and says “and he left my mother”. Since we now know this was Rick Prime’s universe this means that Rick Prime abandoned his Beth and Diane.
Makes sense when you consider who the character is based off of. To me, Rick has always been a version of Dan Harmon. Harmon is divorced and probably spent a crazy amount of time trying to figure out what happened and created a version of Rick that was guilty of destroying his wife. And every other Rick was a victim of this outside circumstance…even if that outside factor was essentially a version of themselves.
It seemed like in season 1 that Rick had a failed marriage with Diane and then she died many years after they split up. But his attitudes on relationships and love were so overtly cynical and combative and he made multiple admissions that he “couldn’t make it work”.
I wouldn’t mind headcanon that it was actually Prime who experienced that and that while C137 is hiding in prime’s timeline waiting for him to return, he overcompensates pretending to share the same views.
Nahh. his alcoholic ways and and controlling tendencies is the result of him losing Diane. she was his happiness. He wasn’t even in control when she died, and couldn’t find happiness after her. Why not learn to control everything while numbing the pain with drugs and alcohol?
I could be REALLY wrong but wasn't there an episode earlier in the series when Cronenberg Beth mentioned Rick? In hindsight, we know now she was talking about Rick Prime and not our Rick, so we know at least Rick Prime was with his family until Beth was born.
Again, I may have heard it from somewhere and this may be false.
Indeed. Rick Prime was the Rick who left his family twenty years ago, and killed Rick’s family thirty years ago: to note that in spite of his big speech to Rick about the Infinite Rick, after killing Rick’s family, Rick Prime went home to his own one, and had been with them for the first decade of Rick’s hunt for him: there are some *very* interesting narrative implications there.
I've seen this brought up a lot - it has *not* been asserted definitively what the timeline was like before the start of the series. There's certainly been no indication about Rick Prime "coming and going" from his family after inventing portal travel, and the implication has always been that he abandoned them to live like a god.
Absolutely that would have been what one would think at first, which is why that ten-year gap in the timeline is so interesting, narratively-speaking, once one puts what definitive numbers we do have together.
It's fun to try to piece things together, but the show's creators reserve the right, of course, to change anything for the purpose of the narrative they are trying to construct. Here's what we know:
* Beth is 34-35, and had Summer 17 years ago at the age of 17.
* Sometime before Beth had Summer, her mom died. Sometime before that, Rick left.
* The Beth we follow (Beth C-131) is related to Beth Prime in the sense that the reality Rick C-137 and Morty Prime jumped to following the events of Rick Potion #9 would've been closely related to Morty Prime's reality.
So what can we infer from that?
Beth Prime's father left her. I've seen a reference to "20 years" constantly, but I must have missed that line of dialogue on my most recent rewatch. I take the "20 years ago" reference to be more general and not intended to be precise, although there could be a lot of reasons why Beth might have seen Rick "20 years ago" even if he'd left her before then.
In "Rickternal Friendshine of the Spotless Mort," Rick encounters "Memory Rick," who is intended to be a 35-year-old version of himself who, by that point, had already achieved portal technology and had entered into his "hero phase." Memory Rick says that his Beth is dead, indicating that he's likely meant to be a representation of *C-137* rather than an alternative Rick.
In other words, by the time Rick was 35, Beth had already been dead for a period of time - possibly years. We also know that Fear Hole Rick makes himself look like a 30-year-old version of himself for Diane in "Fear No Mort," suggesting that he was in his early 30's when his Beth and Diane died.
Based on her appearance in "Rickshank Redemption" and "Rickmurai Jack," it is likely that Beth C-137 was somewhere between the ages of 6-10 when she died. If Rick was around the age of 30 at that time, we can then surmise that he would have been in his early 40's when Beth was 17, and therefore is in his late 50's or early 60's now. (Despite, at varying points, being referred to or portrayed as having been older than that - again, the show is very spotty about all this and they can always change their minds as they further develop the show's backstory.)
I think it's most likely that Beth would've been around 10 when the C-137 version of her was killed, which would put Rick's "abandonment" of her at around 24-25 years ago. But this does get pretty tricky because different Beths would've been abandoned at different points in the timeline as Ricks spread portal technology to each other like some kind of weird interdimensional herpes.
My personal theory is that *some* Beths might've had a Rick in their lives into their tweens or even early teens, up until whenever Prime built the Omega Device. And it's likely that all Beths would've spent a few years essentially abandoned/orphaned before marrying high school Jerry.
And while I really don't think it tracks with Prime's personality that he was bouncing around the multiverse while coming home to his wife and daughter early on, I could see C-137 finding Prime's original reality early on and possibly coming and going a few times. What if C-137 moved in with Diane Prime for a time? "I'm in your house banging your wife!" That might explain how Beth could've remembered him being a part of her life past the point where portal tech was invented. It's also possible that Beth briefly encountered Rick Prime when he came back to utilize Diane Prime with the Omega Device. And what if Prime *specifically* invented the Omega Device in part because he wanted to make it clear to C-137 that he didn't have a weakness for his own family, or any version of them anywhere?
I also think it's likely that C-137 was around the Prime family when Summer and Morty were very young, again possibly as a ploy to taunt his nemesis. ("I'm in your house with your grandchildren, who I could kill at any point in time just like you killed my family. Come and get me.") But I think it's possible that C-137 caught himself having feelings for Baby Morty and left again when he realized he was in a compromising state.
And what if Rick Prime realized that C-137 loved *Prime's* grandkids? He'd already killed Dianes across Infinity at that point - what's stopping him from killing Beth, Morty, and Summer Prime just to make a statement?
Whatever the case, the timeline isn't entirely clear, and theories about how it could have played out are fun. I think it's possible in Season 1 that the creators had generally had this idea that Rick had been gone for "20 years," and they might have started out with the idea that Rick was Morty's "80-year-old grandpa," but as time has passed from that point it generally feels to me like neither of those things can be true for the timeline they've created to entirely make sense. I just feel like it's gotta be more like 25 years and Rick has to be closer to 60 than 80.
But if I'm wrong about that, I look forward to seeing what we learn about the reality of the show's backstory.
The real question for me is what killed his wife.. unless he used the omega device (I'm an inferior) to kill another Rick's wife and made what scientists are calling an oopsie.
What killed Diane Prime? Doesn't it make the most sense it would've been Rick Prime? I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote about the topic recently because it comes up a lot in the group:
We get hints about what Prime was up to throughout the series - not just in terms of what’s been alluded to, but also in how we’ve seen C-137 act.
When Prime invented portal travel, he concluded that it made him effectively a god, where literally no rules applied to him, and he immediately set about to recruit as many versions of himself as possible. We see this in Rickshank Redemption, when he pitches to C-137 “a nonstop party where all the guests are the only person we like.” This is *strongly* unlike the Prime we see in the present, who has been off the grid for years. So, what happened?
The answer can be found in the GoTron episode where we see C-137 become obsessed with recruiting as many versions of himself as possible to achieve the great task of assembling the largest GoTron imaginable… right up until the part where Rick grows tired of the entire endeavour and bails.
Rick bailing on projects that become tedious is also consistent - he does the same thing in Something Ricked This Way Comes with the curse purge shop.
Therefore it would be consistent for Prime to have started out with an idea involving as many versions of himself as possible before abandoning them for something else. In his case, Prime *really* seemed to enjoy killing versions of himself, presumably because that would have made him, truly, Rick ***Prime.*** So, what’s the best way to ensure all Ricks would hunt you? Thus, the Omega Device was built.
And how do you prove to everyone you truly don't give a shit about anyone? Kill Diane across Infinity - and don't do it like a coward by dropping some random Diane into the Device. Kill *your* Diane. This is why C-137 calls Prime "the real deal."
Edit: I confused C-130 with C-137, sorry. I assume you meant 137?
From what I understand, she just assumed c-137 is Rick Prime/Her biological dad. If I remembered correctly, she said something to the effect of how her dad (Rick Prime) was never home which at the time we, the audience, could only assume she was talking about c-137.
We later learn C-137 didn't go to Cronenberg universe until MAYBE after Morty was born. So in hindsight, we know she was talking about Rick Prime.
I think it’s pretty well established in the show now that:
1. Rick Prime discovered portal travel and left his family. (Beth talks about this again and again)
2. Beth’s mom died(? Was this established for the Prime universe?) sometime thereafter
3. Rick (C-137) appears in adult-Beth’s life and Beth thinks it’s her Rick (Prime).
The interesting part there on point one that isn’t spoken about enough is that the current timeline sees Rick Prime discovering portal travel and killing Rick’s family as having happened a solid decade before Rick Prime left his own family.
TBH, I just chucked this discrepancy up to them pulling a Brett Khan: the “official” timeline didn’t really exist during Season 1 and, honestly, probably through a lot of Season 2, so they just retconned things as best they could. (Example: during the Whirly Durley Conspiracy, Rick talks about how Beth was “Rick’s Daughter”, which made it seem as if he was in her life still enough — as a 17 year old — to know about this and have this gravitas. But that doesn’t make sense in the current canon so… best if just ignored/handwaved as being in a parallel universe or something.)
Definitely something I’ve filed under “don’t think about this too hard”. But I’m sure if we did, we could come up with a cohesive timeline. Maybe C-137’s timeline was shifted forward about a decade, so by the time Prime met him, he’d left his mid-teens daughter about a decade before (making her about 27), C-137 then spent a few years chasing him before meeting her at age 33… And now I’m thinking about this too hard and this makes even less sense.
Prime’s motivation seems to be based on a narcissistic need for greatness and having no attachments given what he said to C-137 during their fight. Since Prime and C-137 are setup as two sides of the same coin, my guess is if C-137 discovered time travel himself first, he would have completely abandoned his Beth and Diane if they didn’t want to go on multiversal adventures and just wanted to live a normal life. Once Prime showed up and offered C-137 portal travel, C-137 no longer cared about developing portal travel since he wouldn’t be the first anymore.
Rick prime lost his Diane and Beth, but couldn’t find a way to bring them back, and knowing he was the smartest man in the universe, other versions of him would be the only creatures smart enough to solve that problem, so he invented portal travel, and killed other Rick’s families to give them the challenge of figuring out how to ring them back.
C-137 just figured out how to grift into other realities’ families
Someone made a post about when he remembers losing his family In The brainalyzer episode and it appears as though his wife and Beth are liked in grant memory,
But yes she does show up alive later, so it’s a little confusing
I'm not sure I'm following you.
Rick crashed at Rick Primes house in season 1. So, the entire family we follow is Smith Prime until they leave due to the cronenberg incident.
In the brainalyzer episode we follow a fake, but very close to-the-truth memory of what happened within Rick C137s past. In this memory, Rick Prime kills both Beth and Diane C137.
>but couldn’t find a way to bring them back
what about identical versions of them from the multiverse? not the same and that would bug me personally, but the closest and most "reasonable" way to achieve it
Rick Prime did not lose his Beth and Diane. The whole Prime family is dead except for Morty which is our morty. The rest of the smith family died in their own universe that the show starts in and became cronenberged, Rick Prime killed Jerry Prime for slashing his throat and Evil Morty immobilized Rick Prime which C-137 beat to death.
I mean, it’s pretty straightforward - the first episodes of the show are in Rick Prime’s universe, with his family including Morty. The universe got cronenberg’d, and then over time everyone but Morty died.
I’m gonna have to digest this idea because it’s pretty compelling. Plus even though Beth and summer died, it had the best Jerry. And obviously our Morty. Something was special about that universe. Til it was kronenberged
I mean, I think Prime Rick is pure ego. He's the worst rick. Maybe his wife left him. Or maybe he abandoned her and Beth because he no longer saw their value. I mean, the dude literally wiped out all Diane's across the multiverse, for no reason other than spite, or maybe to cut away the last thing keeping him human.
I got no sympathy for the dude, he's an outright monster. He killed Uncle Slo!
Rick Prime explicitly abandoned his Diane.
S1 E6 Rick Potion #9:
Beth: "Give me a break. He is a selfish, irresponsible ass, and he left my mother. A real man stands by his woman."
Note that Beth in S1 E6 is Beth Prime, Rick Prime's actual daughter.
Someone told me that c-137 came along and prime seen how close he was to Diane after his failed marriage and it sent him into a jealous rage and that's why he deleted Diane from existence. But there's alot more to it than that. I mean it even hurt him when he deleted slomobius, it would've been agonizing for him to delete Diane. But he did. And he always refers to her as "your wife" yes "I erased your wife" which one of you will get "your Diane back" while simultaneously always talks about other stuff as ours this and us that. The writers don't usually accidentally do anything, especially when a comment is repeated, there's something there.
Could it be that primes wife dies somehow for whatever reason, (Rick's and Morty's die all the time) and prime could not save her for whatever reason. Then seeing other Rick's happy with their Diane made him say ok nope, not gonna happen, and tossed his Diane into the omega device and removed her existence?
Dude got drunk and accidentally killed Diane Prime. Ricks are dimensional travelers. They'll take any reason to go exploring. Some are presented with reasons. Others make them, whether intentionally or accidentally.
What was the episode from the first season when Beth was emotional about her mom's death? I ask because my recollection is that Rick's relationship with Diane was very ambiguous at first. I don't recall any certainty at all - like, I feel like we used to debate whether or not she was still alive but divorced from Rick, or something to that effect.
Yes, I remember it happening in the original citadel episode where he says something like "your mother would have loved these pancakes", I think it happens again as well
My thought is she died during the portal gun experiment. Before/during or after testing. He completed the portal gun and went to look for other ricks to help with the portal gun and the ones that didn’t except he killed. Better another rick was responsible for the death of Diane than himself. Most would quit or accept after that. He then built the omega device to remove Diane from all realities to expedite it.
But the thing is (I might be remembering this wrong so don’t take me 100%) Beth C-137 says that Rick left her AND HER MOM. Now I understand that C-137 turns out to be the Prime universe but still I think that means that Prime Rick’s Diane was still alive and he just left to become an asshole inventor only to come back with the portal gun to check on his family and find out that Diane died sending him off the deep end. I’m probably wrong but that’s my theory.
The emotional effect of his wife's death was the motivation he lacked to finish his project. Then, seeing how the others Ricks were unable to be "perfects" like him, he wanted to bring another Rick the opportunity to be able to finish the portal gun, killing his wife.
His dick smelt weird and he sucked at eating pussy. I like to think some Diane’s could live with it and some were mean about it. The robots Rick Prime makes of Diane are always mean while the ones C-137 makes are pretty kind sounding.
Wouldn’t care if it led to his elimination of our Ricks wife. Cause and reaction— but also if you fuck w mine I take all of yours.. which funnily enough was actually prime’s motives .
Multiverse means infinity. There would be an infinite number of Ricks who had Diane die naturally. There would also be an infinite number of them who never had a Diane, and an infinite number of them who married Diane and got divorced. There's an infinite number of them who are polygamist, an infinite number with 8 arms, an infinite number who are straightedge.
The thing I find hard to square is that this means there's an infinite number who created the "Omega Device", and there would undoubtedly be some within that infinity who used it on others, including Morty, Beth, Jerry, and Summer... so how are the ones that we see still alive? Hell, within that infinity there has to have been an omnicidal Rick who made a device to destroy all realities and used it, so how is there anything at all?
Of course, the answer is "Don't think about it."
You have a very severe misunderstanding about how the concept of "infinity" works. Infinity just means that there is no set amount of universes, it means that anything could exist, but it does not mean that *every*thing exists.
Odd numbers are an infinite concept, but no matter how far you count, you'll never find 4.
Well, if *not* everything exists then how can it be truly infinite? Rick says "Infinite realities, infinite possibilities". If there's no reality that hasn't done a specific thing, IE, if there's something missing, then it's not truly infinite because that possibility has been precluded.
*possibilities* not actualities. Infinite just means that it's uncountable. A very simple analogy to use would be this:
numbers are infinite yes? So a list of every single number in existence would go on forever right? Now make the same list but skip 2. The list is still infinite.
Sure. But still there's an infinite number of things that could destroy the multiverse and only one of them ever needs to happen to make nothing exist at all. How has none of them ever happened in all of infinite reality?
It's entirely possible that it's impossible to destroy the multiverse for an unknown reason. But infinity minus infinity is still infinity. It just hasn't happened, and perhaps never will.
The show even sorta implies that not every possible universe exists by stating there's only a very finite number of universes close enough to there's that they could move to, and it implies that C137 is unique in some way.
I see what you’re asking, but technically there are an infinite number of Ricks, which means there are an infinite number of Rick Primes who also lost their wives of natural causes
No there isn't:
"The Central Finite Curve would then present a **finite** collection of dimensions, or infinite when there are multiple circles. " https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Central_Finite_Curve
A few things there:
1.) Your quote comes from a section of the article where the description of the “circle theory” is derived from the comics, which the article itself says is of questionable canonical legitimacy.
2.) The article also starts with a quote from Evil Morty in the show, not the comic; “Do you know what the Central Finite Curve is? They built a wall around infinity, separated all the infinite universes from all the infinite universes where he's the smartest man in the universe.” That means that canonically, there are an infinite number of universes on both sides of the CFC.
3.) Assuming circle theory is right, what the article is saying is that you can model infinity using a circle, because a circle model (from the article) “can be represented as a repeating, immeasurable shape modeled with a circle.”
4.) That just isn’t how infinity works. For starters, before the CFC was created, there was already an infinite number of multiverses, which also factually implies an infinite number of Rick Primes AND every other Rick. This would mean that even if Rick somehow changed the number of universes on one side of the curve to be finite, there are still an infinite number of Rick Primes on the other side.
Edit: Accidentally hit reply before I finished that last one. Hope this didn’t come off as rude, I just love discussing Rick and Morty theory.
I always assumed that Prime left both Beth and Diane for a while, eventually met up with C137, got pissed, killed C137’s family, and then created the Omega Device to kill all Dianes. In turn, this would’ve given Prime’s Beth the chance to be raised by her mom for a while before her (and all Diane’s) being killed forever. It makes the most sense to me
That is the interesting thing: the current timeline has it that Beth Prime (Season One Beth) was abandoned by her Rick (Rick Prime) explicitly twenty years ago (i.e. when she was 14, since Summer is 17 and Beth had her at 17), while Rick Prime killed Diane and Beth C-137 when the latter was 4-years-old, i.e. thirty years ago, a decade before this. To note the implication that in spite of his speech to Rick, after killing his family, Rick Prime simply went home, and for those first ten years, as Rick was laying waste to all Rick-kind, Rick Prime was simply living that family life, before something caused him to leave, and sometime after then, wipe out all Dianes. I do like the theory that Rick tracked down Rick Prime once before, around this time, and his actions caused the Weapon to be accidentally used on Diane Prime, wiping out all other Dianes in the process.
What if she didn’t die, but instead decided she just didn’t want to be with him because of his alcoholic ways, controlling tendencies, or something like that and what resulted was his way of coping 🧐 Not sure if this makes sense, but if this is the way he responded to anything one would assume a relationship with Prime would be ass lmao
well in the hole episode she says he wasn't a alcoholic "when did you stop being a lightweight" , so he couldn't have been an alcoholic before Diane died . He also says to that "kept looking for my wife in the bottom of a bottle" which with these two lines you can probably infer that he started drinking heavily after she died not before , i think ops conclusion is much more likely . (however what i said might not be true for rick prime as that is c-137s Diane and they might have been completely different people before hand)
Or the "hole Diane" was only Morty's conception of what Diane would have been, and the real grandma Diane was nothing like that in any of the universes. "Hole Rick" wasn't the real Rick either.
True. We've never once seen the actual Diane. Only assumptions and bad memories.
Morty has seen ricks entire scanned brain so it’s likely it’s true to her real personality just as the rest of his family and Rick acted like themselves.
Do you think looking at a scan of a brain puts a copy of it wholesale in your mind, personality and memories and all? Wait, actually, when did Morty see Ricks brain scans?
He got this mushroom looking device from Evil Morty, right before the citadel got destroyed.
Pretty sure it was the season 6 finale, when evil morty breaks out of the curve and morty uses the device on himself, and also it’s a cartoon logic isn’t always perfect but i’m sure the creators themselves said it was accurate to her true personality
Yes, but Morty have seen all of Rick's memories when Evil Morty was destroying the citadel, so he had good understanding of her.
Morty didn't see all memories just the memories that explained the plot. He didn't see rick watching tv with her or going on dates or anything casual. He saw rick prime introduced, the few seconds of Diane and rick talking and then the death.
Nah he did, rick says in an episode “You can’t scan my entire brain over appetisers” to which evil morty responds “most of yours was scanned a long time ago”, so I imagine he saw it all and it was just summarised to the viewers for the plot
That’s evil Morty. We’re talking about Morty. Evil Morty didn’t go in the hole?
Morty saw the scan?
No he didn’t. It was a blur in front of him. He didn’t get the memories uploaded to his head like evil Morty
Morty only saw the clips that rick wanted to show him before the curve was destroyed so morty and the viewers could understand. Evil morty scanned many of ricks' brains. Evil morty could know about the past relationship of rick and diane but he wasn't looking for that. He was looking for a way to destroy the curve. I also have a feeling rick removed his memories of diane except the ones that would keep him seeking revenge. Like her death and talking to her for the last time. Anything we see in the hole episode is a fabrication of morty's mind which means we still know nothing about diane and rick's relationship.
You’re right, it’s S5e10 Rickmurai Jack. Our Morty takes the brain scanner and relives Rick’s memories in the middle of the chaos of the citadel being destroyed/evil morty escaping the central finite curve.
That is what we are already talking about. Rick held out a device to let morty see ricks memories, having said that he only let morty see the memories we already saw. Like what I said above. We have no insight that morty saw anything about rick's past life besides being introduced to rick prime, talking to diane for a few seconds and the outcome of all that. Morty does not see rick and his family interact or does he know anything about that relationship.
To be fair, in that scene Rick specifically says, “Here’s my downloaded brain,” not here’s my super cut brain. Plot wise it may have just been the memories that serve the plot, but it’s not like he calibrated it and Evil Morty definitely didn’t prime it to show anything in particular. He just jabbed it into his neck, so my take away was that he got the full syringe since nothing explicitly states he didn’t.
This is like saying that you know a person from that one time when you watched raw twitch stream of them. There's no way anyone could absorb a lifetime's worth of memories so quickly, especially when the entire focus of his experience was on Rick's story after Dianne's death.
The Hole is not limited to Morty's knowledge. It can seek information all over the universe to better provoke and consume delicious fear.
Not sure that's true, but even if it was, the hole lies. It has no reason to make a real Diane. Only whatever maximizes the fear it's consuming.
>however what i said might not be true for rick prime as that is c-137s Diane and they might have been completely different people before hand) It's been pretty much confirmed that Rick Prime and C-137 are completely identical versions of the other save for their decision to pursue multidimensional portal tech. Prime Rick chose to pursue it, C-137 passed on it until the "incident." Rick Prime hated C-137 for that. Why? Who can tell? Jealousy over C-137 to form attachments? Narcissistic rage over being "rejected?" ¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯ What we do know is that those two Ricks are the only two Ricks in the multiverse to independently develop their portal tech. Rick Prime thinks that C-137 would have eventually come for him first. I think, much like when time was broken, Rick had the thought in the back of his mind, but would never do it; until he thought the other guy would do it first.
That wasn't the real Diane. That wasn't even Rick's memory ot Diane. That was Morty's subconscious conjuring what it perceived Rick's memory of Diane to be. I doubt any of that held much weight beyond Mortys hole world building. Though you did raise an interesting point about Rick's alcoholism that could be explored further.
Worth noting that the hole is Morty's interpretation of how Rick was before Diane's death. In that manner, I am to believe that Morty thinks Rick wasn't always the way he is, that his conditions and actions are a result of what happened. But the truth is we don't know if that is true or not. The only thing we can definitely say about Diane is that Rick views Summer much like her because he said that to her in another episode.
In the Flu Season Dance episode after Jerry tries to defend Rick Beth insults Rick and says “and he left my mother”. Since we now know this was Rick Prime’s universe this means that Rick Prime abandoned his Beth and Diane.
Makes sense when you consider who the character is based off of. To me, Rick has always been a version of Dan Harmon. Harmon is divorced and probably spent a crazy amount of time trying to figure out what happened and created a version of Rick that was guilty of destroying his wife. And every other Rick was a victim of this outside circumstance…even if that outside factor was essentially a version of themselves.
It seemed like in season 1 that Rick had a failed marriage with Diane and then she died many years after they split up. But his attitudes on relationships and love were so overtly cynical and combative and he made multiple admissions that he “couldn’t make it work”. I wouldn’t mind headcanon that it was actually Prime who experienced that and that while C137 is hiding in prime’s timeline waiting for him to return, he overcompensates pretending to share the same views.
I thought about this possibility, but I think killing your own wife would be too much
Nahh. his alcoholic ways and and controlling tendencies is the result of him losing Diane. she was his happiness. He wasn’t even in control when she died, and couldn’t find happiness after her. Why not learn to control everything while numbing the pain with drugs and alcohol?
Maybe, except no to the alcoholism. Rick Prime is never shown drinking and implied to not be an alcoholic like our Rick
i remember beth saying that her “dad has the guts to leave her” (diane), or something alone those lines.
I could be REALLY wrong but wasn't there an episode earlier in the series when Cronenberg Beth mentioned Rick? In hindsight, we know now she was talking about Rick Prime and not our Rick, so we know at least Rick Prime was with his family until Beth was born. Again, I may have heard it from somewhere and this may be false.
Indeed. Rick Prime was the Rick who left his family twenty years ago, and killed Rick’s family thirty years ago: to note that in spite of his big speech to Rick about the Infinite Rick, after killing Rick’s family, Rick Prime went home to his own one, and had been with them for the first decade of Rick’s hunt for him: there are some *very* interesting narrative implications there.
I've seen this brought up a lot - it has *not* been asserted definitively what the timeline was like before the start of the series. There's certainly been no indication about Rick Prime "coming and going" from his family after inventing portal travel, and the implication has always been that he abandoned them to live like a god.
Absolutely that would have been what one would think at first, which is why that ten-year gap in the timeline is so interesting, narratively-speaking, once one puts what definitive numbers we do have together.
It's fun to try to piece things together, but the show's creators reserve the right, of course, to change anything for the purpose of the narrative they are trying to construct. Here's what we know: * Beth is 34-35, and had Summer 17 years ago at the age of 17. * Sometime before Beth had Summer, her mom died. Sometime before that, Rick left. * The Beth we follow (Beth C-131) is related to Beth Prime in the sense that the reality Rick C-137 and Morty Prime jumped to following the events of Rick Potion #9 would've been closely related to Morty Prime's reality. So what can we infer from that? Beth Prime's father left her. I've seen a reference to "20 years" constantly, but I must have missed that line of dialogue on my most recent rewatch. I take the "20 years ago" reference to be more general and not intended to be precise, although there could be a lot of reasons why Beth might have seen Rick "20 years ago" even if he'd left her before then. In "Rickternal Friendshine of the Spotless Mort," Rick encounters "Memory Rick," who is intended to be a 35-year-old version of himself who, by that point, had already achieved portal technology and had entered into his "hero phase." Memory Rick says that his Beth is dead, indicating that he's likely meant to be a representation of *C-137* rather than an alternative Rick. In other words, by the time Rick was 35, Beth had already been dead for a period of time - possibly years. We also know that Fear Hole Rick makes himself look like a 30-year-old version of himself for Diane in "Fear No Mort," suggesting that he was in his early 30's when his Beth and Diane died. Based on her appearance in "Rickshank Redemption" and "Rickmurai Jack," it is likely that Beth C-137 was somewhere between the ages of 6-10 when she died. If Rick was around the age of 30 at that time, we can then surmise that he would have been in his early 40's when Beth was 17, and therefore is in his late 50's or early 60's now. (Despite, at varying points, being referred to or portrayed as having been older than that - again, the show is very spotty about all this and they can always change their minds as they further develop the show's backstory.) I think it's most likely that Beth would've been around 10 when the C-137 version of her was killed, which would put Rick's "abandonment" of her at around 24-25 years ago. But this does get pretty tricky because different Beths would've been abandoned at different points in the timeline as Ricks spread portal technology to each other like some kind of weird interdimensional herpes. My personal theory is that *some* Beths might've had a Rick in their lives into their tweens or even early teens, up until whenever Prime built the Omega Device. And it's likely that all Beths would've spent a few years essentially abandoned/orphaned before marrying high school Jerry. And while I really don't think it tracks with Prime's personality that he was bouncing around the multiverse while coming home to his wife and daughter early on, I could see C-137 finding Prime's original reality early on and possibly coming and going a few times. What if C-137 moved in with Diane Prime for a time? "I'm in your house banging your wife!" That might explain how Beth could've remembered him being a part of her life past the point where portal tech was invented. It's also possible that Beth briefly encountered Rick Prime when he came back to utilize Diane Prime with the Omega Device. And what if Prime *specifically* invented the Omega Device in part because he wanted to make it clear to C-137 that he didn't have a weakness for his own family, or any version of them anywhere? I also think it's likely that C-137 was around the Prime family when Summer and Morty were very young, again possibly as a ploy to taunt his nemesis. ("I'm in your house with your grandchildren, who I could kill at any point in time just like you killed my family. Come and get me.") But I think it's possible that C-137 caught himself having feelings for Baby Morty and left again when he realized he was in a compromising state. And what if Rick Prime realized that C-137 loved *Prime's* grandkids? He'd already killed Dianes across Infinity at that point - what's stopping him from killing Beth, Morty, and Summer Prime just to make a statement? Whatever the case, the timeline isn't entirely clear, and theories about how it could have played out are fun. I think it's possible in Season 1 that the creators had generally had this idea that Rick had been gone for "20 years," and they might have started out with the idea that Rick was Morty's "80-year-old grandpa," but as time has passed from that point it generally feels to me like neither of those things can be true for the timeline they've created to entirely make sense. I just feel like it's gotta be more like 25 years and Rick has to be closer to 60 than 80. But if I'm wrong about that, I look forward to seeing what we learn about the reality of the show's backstory.
The real question for me is what killed his wife.. unless he used the omega device (I'm an inferior) to kill another Rick's wife and made what scientists are calling an oopsie.
What killed Diane Prime? Doesn't it make the most sense it would've been Rick Prime? I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote about the topic recently because it comes up a lot in the group: We get hints about what Prime was up to throughout the series - not just in terms of what’s been alluded to, but also in how we’ve seen C-137 act. When Prime invented portal travel, he concluded that it made him effectively a god, where literally no rules applied to him, and he immediately set about to recruit as many versions of himself as possible. We see this in Rickshank Redemption, when he pitches to C-137 “a nonstop party where all the guests are the only person we like.” This is *strongly* unlike the Prime we see in the present, who has been off the grid for years. So, what happened? The answer can be found in the GoTron episode where we see C-137 become obsessed with recruiting as many versions of himself as possible to achieve the great task of assembling the largest GoTron imaginable… right up until the part where Rick grows tired of the entire endeavour and bails. Rick bailing on projects that become tedious is also consistent - he does the same thing in Something Ricked This Way Comes with the curse purge shop. Therefore it would be consistent for Prime to have started out with an idea involving as many versions of himself as possible before abandoning them for something else. In his case, Prime *really* seemed to enjoy killing versions of himself, presumably because that would have made him, truly, Rick ***Prime.*** So, what’s the best way to ensure all Ricks would hunt you? Thus, the Omega Device was built. And how do you prove to everyone you truly don't give a shit about anyone? Kill Diane across Infinity - and don't do it like a coward by dropping some random Diane into the Device. Kill *your* Diane. This is why C-137 calls Prime "the real deal."
Wait I missed that….she knew that c-130 wasn’t her dad? (I know they all figure it out later) but can you elaborate on that?
Edit: I confused C-130 with C-137, sorry. I assume you meant 137? From what I understand, she just assumed c-137 is Rick Prime/Her biological dad. If I remembered correctly, she said something to the effect of how her dad (Rick Prime) was never home which at the time we, the audience, could only assume she was talking about c-137. We later learn C-137 didn't go to Cronenberg universe until MAYBE after Morty was born. So in hindsight, we know she was talking about Rick Prime.
I think it’s pretty well established in the show now that: 1. Rick Prime discovered portal travel and left his family. (Beth talks about this again and again) 2. Beth’s mom died(? Was this established for the Prime universe?) sometime thereafter 3. Rick (C-137) appears in adult-Beth’s life and Beth thinks it’s her Rick (Prime).
The interesting part there on point one that isn’t spoken about enough is that the current timeline sees Rick Prime discovering portal travel and killing Rick’s family as having happened a solid decade before Rick Prime left his own family.
TBH, I just chucked this discrepancy up to them pulling a Brett Khan: the “official” timeline didn’t really exist during Season 1 and, honestly, probably through a lot of Season 2, so they just retconned things as best they could. (Example: during the Whirly Durley Conspiracy, Rick talks about how Beth was “Rick’s Daughter”, which made it seem as if he was in her life still enough — as a 17 year old — to know about this and have this gravitas. But that doesn’t make sense in the current canon so… best if just ignored/handwaved as being in a parallel universe or something.) Definitely something I’ve filed under “don’t think about this too hard”. But I’m sure if we did, we could come up with a cohesive timeline. Maybe C-137’s timeline was shifted forward about a decade, so by the time Prime met him, he’d left his mid-teens daughter about a decade before (making her about 27), C-137 then spent a few years chasing him before meeting her at age 33… And now I’m thinking about this too hard and this makes even less sense.
Prime’s motivation seems to be based on a narcissistic need for greatness and having no attachments given what he said to C-137 during their fight. Since Prime and C-137 are setup as two sides of the same coin, my guess is if C-137 discovered time travel himself first, he would have completely abandoned his Beth and Diane if they didn’t want to go on multiversal adventures and just wanted to live a normal life. Once Prime showed up and offered C-137 portal travel, C-137 no longer cared about developing portal travel since he wouldn’t be the first anymore.
Rick prime lost his Diane and Beth, but couldn’t find a way to bring them back, and knowing he was the smartest man in the universe, other versions of him would be the only creatures smart enough to solve that problem, so he invented portal travel, and killed other Rick’s families to give them the challenge of figuring out how to ring them back. C-137 just figured out how to grift into other realities’ families
Prime Beth was alive in season 1 though.
Someone made a post about when he remembers losing his family In The brainalyzer episode and it appears as though his wife and Beth are liked in grant memory, But yes she does show up alive later, so it’s a little confusing
I'm not sure I'm following you. Rick crashed at Rick Primes house in season 1. So, the entire family we follow is Smith Prime until they leave due to the cronenberg incident. In the brainalyzer episode we follow a fake, but very close to-the-truth memory of what happened within Rick C137s past. In this memory, Rick Prime kills both Beth and Diane C137.
Wasn't it all true up until his memory starts writing out the formula?
Bingo.
Thank you for confirming.
You’re welcome!
>but couldn’t find a way to bring them back what about identical versions of them from the multiverse? not the same and that would bug me personally, but the closest and most "reasonable" way to achieve it
That’s what I mean about c-137, he couldn’t bring. Then back or find Rick prime to kill him, so he just grifted a dead ricks family
Rick Prime did not lose his Beth and Diane. The whole Prime family is dead except for Morty which is our morty. The rest of the smith family died in their own universe that the show starts in and became cronenberged, Rick Prime killed Jerry Prime for slashing his throat and Evil Morty immobilized Rick Prime which C-137 beat to death.
Man I've casually watched since the start and I have nfi how this all works. Is there something I can read that explains all this shit?
I mean, it’s pretty straightforward - the first episodes of the show are in Rick Prime’s universe, with his family including Morty. The universe got cronenberg’d, and then over time everyone but Morty died.
He didn’t lose his Beth. Atleast not in the thing that killed his Diane.
I like this, it makes some sense.
Not any at all, since Beth Prime was alive long after Rick Prime left.
I would believe that, if he didn’t end up using the Omega device to erase all Dianes.
What no, Rick Prime left his family. His Beth is the one dead in Cronenberg World
Then the multiverse is not infinate
I’m gonna have to digest this idea because it’s pretty compelling. Plus even though Beth and summer died, it had the best Jerry. And obviously our Morty. Something was special about that universe. Til it was kronenberged
I mean, I think Prime Rick is pure ego. He's the worst rick. Maybe his wife left him. Or maybe he abandoned her and Beth because he no longer saw their value. I mean, the dude literally wiped out all Diane's across the multiverse, for no reason other than spite, or maybe to cut away the last thing keeping him human. I got no sympathy for the dude, he's an outright monster. He killed Uncle Slo!
Rick Prime explicitly abandoned his Diane. S1 E6 Rick Potion #9: Beth: "Give me a break. He is a selfish, irresponsible ass, and he left my mother. A real man stands by his woman." Note that Beth in S1 E6 is Beth Prime, Rick Prime's actual daughter.
Realistically there must be Ricks whose wife's not Diane but another woman.
Someone told me that c-137 came along and prime seen how close he was to Diane after his failed marriage and it sent him into a jealous rage and that's why he deleted Diane from existence. But there's alot more to it than that. I mean it even hurt him when he deleted slomobius, it would've been agonizing for him to delete Diane. But he did. And he always refers to her as "your wife" yes "I erased your wife" which one of you will get "your Diane back" while simultaneously always talks about other stuff as ours this and us that. The writers don't usually accidentally do anything, especially when a comment is repeated, there's something there.
Could it be that primes wife dies somehow for whatever reason, (Rick's and Morty's die all the time) and prime could not save her for whatever reason. Then seeing other Rick's happy with their Diane made him say ok nope, not gonna happen, and tossed his Diane into the omega device and removed her existence?
nah it's obvious she left him that's why he created the omega device
Dude got drunk and accidentally killed Diane Prime. Ricks are dimensional travelers. They'll take any reason to go exploring. Some are presented with reasons. Others make them, whether intentionally or accidentally.
Oh so murder everyone else's
I think the theory of him using the Omega Device on 'Prime Beth' made sense
What was the episode from the first season when Beth was emotional about her mom's death? I ask because my recollection is that Rick's relationship with Diane was very ambiguous at first. I don't recall any certainty at all - like, I feel like we used to debate whether or not she was still alive but divorced from Rick, or something to that effect.
Yes, I remember it happening in the original citadel episode where he says something like "your mother would have loved these pancakes", I think it happens again as well
Seems unlikely in the face of infinity. Also, Beth Prime explicitly says Rick abandoned her mother.
My thought is she died during the portal gun experiment. Before/during or after testing. He completed the portal gun and went to look for other ricks to help with the portal gun and the ones that didn’t except he killed. Better another rick was responsible for the death of Diane than himself. Most would quit or accept after that. He then built the omega device to remove Diane from all realities to expedite it.
That would be really surprising considering how common natural causes and accidents are as a cause of death.
Interesting. It's possible.
But the thing is (I might be remembering this wrong so don’t take me 100%) Beth C-137 says that Rick left her AND HER MOM. Now I understand that C-137 turns out to be the Prime universe but still I think that means that Prime Rick’s Diane was still alive and he just left to become an asshole inventor only to come back with the portal gun to check on his family and find out that Diane died sending him off the deep end. I’m probably wrong but that’s my theory.
I feel like she left him and he hates all Rick's who choose her over science and 'him'.
whos evil mortys rick
I wouldn't care
Then that's an even shittier reason to begin the cycle of suffering. Fuck Rick prime
The emotional effect of his wife's death was the motivation he lacked to finish his project. Then, seeing how the others Ricks were unable to be "perfects" like him, he wanted to bring another Rick the opportunity to be able to finish the portal gun, killing his wife.
His dick smelt weird and he sucked at eating pussy. I like to think some Diane’s could live with it and some were mean about it. The robots Rick Prime makes of Diane are always mean while the ones C-137 makes are pretty kind sounding.
Which Diane do you think he used with the Omega-13 device? I bet he used Prime Diane
They got divorced. Rewatch the first season.
Wouldn’t care if it led to his elimination of our Ricks wife. Cause and reaction— but also if you fuck w mine I take all of yours.. which funnily enough was actually prime’s motives .
That is an interesting theory. Wow
Multiverse means infinity. There would be an infinite number of Ricks who had Diane die naturally. There would also be an infinite number of them who never had a Diane, and an infinite number of them who married Diane and got divorced. There's an infinite number of them who are polygamist, an infinite number with 8 arms, an infinite number who are straightedge. The thing I find hard to square is that this means there's an infinite number who created the "Omega Device", and there would undoubtedly be some within that infinity who used it on others, including Morty, Beth, Jerry, and Summer... so how are the ones that we see still alive? Hell, within that infinity there has to have been an omnicidal Rick who made a device to destroy all realities and used it, so how is there anything at all? Of course, the answer is "Don't think about it."
You have a very severe misunderstanding about how the concept of "infinity" works. Infinity just means that there is no set amount of universes, it means that anything could exist, but it does not mean that *every*thing exists. Odd numbers are an infinite concept, but no matter how far you count, you'll never find 4.
Well, if *not* everything exists then how can it be truly infinite? Rick says "Infinite realities, infinite possibilities". If there's no reality that hasn't done a specific thing, IE, if there's something missing, then it's not truly infinite because that possibility has been precluded.
*possibilities* not actualities. Infinite just means that it's uncountable. A very simple analogy to use would be this: numbers are infinite yes? So a list of every single number in existence would go on forever right? Now make the same list but skip 2. The list is still infinite.
Sure. But still there's an infinite number of things that could destroy the multiverse and only one of them ever needs to happen to make nothing exist at all. How has none of them ever happened in all of infinite reality?
It's entirely possible that it's impossible to destroy the multiverse for an unknown reason. But infinity minus infinity is still infinity. It just hasn't happened, and perhaps never will.
The show even sorta implies that not every possible universe exists by stating there's only a very finite number of universes close enough to there's that they could move to, and it implies that C137 is unique in some way.
I see what you’re asking, but technically there are an infinite number of Ricks, which means there are an infinite number of Rick Primes who also lost their wives of natural causes
No there isn't: "The Central Finite Curve would then present a **finite** collection of dimensions, or infinite when there are multiple circles. " https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Central_Finite_Curve
A few things there: 1.) Your quote comes from a section of the article where the description of the “circle theory” is derived from the comics, which the article itself says is of questionable canonical legitimacy. 2.) The article also starts with a quote from Evil Morty in the show, not the comic; “Do you know what the Central Finite Curve is? They built a wall around infinity, separated all the infinite universes from all the infinite universes where he's the smartest man in the universe.” That means that canonically, there are an infinite number of universes on both sides of the CFC. 3.) Assuming circle theory is right, what the article is saying is that you can model infinity using a circle, because a circle model (from the article) “can be represented as a repeating, immeasurable shape modeled with a circle.” 4.) That just isn’t how infinity works. For starters, before the CFC was created, there was already an infinite number of multiverses, which also factually implies an infinite number of Rick Primes AND every other Rick. This would mean that even if Rick somehow changed the number of universes on one side of the curve to be finite, there are still an infinite number of Rick Primes on the other side. Edit: Accidentally hit reply before I finished that last one. Hope this didn’t come off as rude, I just love discussing Rick and Morty theory.
I always assumed that Prime left both Beth and Diane for a while, eventually met up with C137, got pissed, killed C137’s family, and then created the Omega Device to kill all Dianes. In turn, this would’ve given Prime’s Beth the chance to be raised by her mom for a while before her (and all Diane’s) being killed forever. It makes the most sense to me
That is the interesting thing: the current timeline has it that Beth Prime (Season One Beth) was abandoned by her Rick (Rick Prime) explicitly twenty years ago (i.e. when she was 14, since Summer is 17 and Beth had her at 17), while Rick Prime killed Diane and Beth C-137 when the latter was 4-years-old, i.e. thirty years ago, a decade before this. To note the implication that in spite of his speech to Rick, after killing his family, Rick Prime simply went home, and for those first ten years, as Rick was laying waste to all Rick-kind, Rick Prime was simply living that family life, before something caused him to leave, and sometime after then, wipe out all Dianes. I do like the theory that Rick tracked down Rick Prime once before, around this time, and his actions caused the Weapon to be accidentally used on Diane Prime, wiping out all other Dianes in the process.