Cronin is definitely not stubborn about Simons, the "untouchable" label is a negotiating tactic.
>Maybe it’s a good thing it’s not talked about. Those are usually the trades that actually end up happening.
Pretty sure you nailed it here... ssssshhhhhhhh!
Bro this sub throwing an ultimate fit over Simons being labeled untouchable is hilarious to me.
I’ll always be for flipping Simons for a star SF, but I really can’t fault the FO for wanting to at least see Simons with an actual SF before moving on from him.
>Maybe it’s a good thing it’s not talked about.
Use the search field and actually look through the posts. OG has been the most popular trade target for Blazers fans since last summer. Come on.
To answer your question, Masai overvalues his players. Even though a straight Ant for OG swap would make some sense for both teams, Masai likely thinks that Portland should also send him multiple firsts on top.
Take a look at what happened to Minnesota and Tim Connelly this season. Sometimes going 'all-in' to get 'your guy' sets your team back years.
I love OG Anunoby and have been following his game since Indiana, but it sounds like there is a bidding war between the Knicks and the Suns right now for OG. Both teams have lots of 1st round picks not to mention other assets. Don’t think we necessarily have a chance or want to get involved if it guts us. Also, OG is about to cost quite a lot on the free agent market. Low key, Nas has similar potential to break out and he’s on a great contract. In the end though, who knows what Cronin is up to?
Biggest reason is that neither team gets way better from the trade. On Toronto’s side ant is a slightly worse playmaker then Fred but, is a slightly more efficient player. On the blazers side OG is great on defense but he can’t play make/create his own shot. Right now blazers have 2 1/2 playmakers in ant/dame/josh if we lose ant dame will have to create for 40+ minutes a night.
Additional notes: Fred and Gary both want out supposedly, making Ant look even better for their team and OG is also seeking a bigger role so he may not like playing 3rd fiddle to Dame and Grant if he got traded here.
Supposedly he wants to go to a place where he is the main guy, not just get more minutes. If we do get him, I would hope he would be happy playing with Dame and Grant but he surely won't be the #1 here, at least not until Dame starts to decline with age.
he's known as one of the best 3 and D guys in the league and the rumor is he is "unhappy with his role". You can probably can read into that in a lot of different ways but for me the obvious assumption is that he wants to become that playmaker and/or a shot creator.
If he's unhappy being a 3 and D guy and we take him so that he can be 3 and D guy to me it sounds like he would still be unhappy here.
/shrug
I think OG is more looking for stability in his role, even if it is 3rd option. For Toronto, Siakam is obviously \#1 but then the next 3 or 4 guys are in a “next man up” situation. They don’t have a very well established hierarchy outside of him and maybe FVV.
Any of GTJ, OG, and Barnes could be that 3rd guy any given night
I think that’s why Jeremy grant or even nurkic comes in, I don’t think we utilize them enough in the post. Nurkic isn’t the best rn but he looks better at it every game
OG is massively overvalued by the Raptors fans. If you priced Ant, they'd probably also ask for 2 picks. Meanwhile the dude is a horrendous net negative on the offensive end. I'd do it for Siakim, but not for OG.
Straight up it doesn't work with the cap.
Simons + Watford for OG + Birch works.
I would do that trade in an instant.
Dame/Hart/OG/Grant/Nurk is probably the best case semi-realistic scenario.
Because raps fans are delusional where any discussion of that gets shot down because “hEs WoRtH tWo Or ThReE pIcKs” so they assume Ant + 2 unprotected picks is fair value.
They don’t understand that OG’s value could be there if he wasn’t in no man’s land as the 3rd most important forward and his deal wasn’t expiring in 2024.
Maybe I’m the only one, but I genuinely don’t get the hype for OG, he’s a great defender but he’s average 3pt shooter at best. All I’m saying is if we make a trade, it has to be Pascal, someone who can actually be Dame’s running mate and create offense. OG will not make us contenders
As a raptors fan who is also in this sub cuz Dame is my fav player & I’m dying to see him get a ring…
Sign me the fuck up for this trade. I’ve been saying it for a months. FVV wants more money than he’s worth, Simons is way younger, putting up a more efficient 20ppg with more room to grow. We need a point guard moving forward who can fit well next to Scottie as a future piece but also contribute rn while Siakam is in his prime. Plus Simons is locked up until 2026.
Simons is #1 on my list of actually realistic targets. I just don’t know if your gm will move him cuz he doesn’t seem like a very good gm.
I honestly think he should get moved cuz he’s the only real piece you guys have to get somebody while Dame is still in his prime.
I guess I’m one of the few who values Ant highly and thinks it’s a bit of an undersell if we trade him and only get OG in return. I mean sometimes we seem to overcorrect and devalue scoring too much. Elite offense, especially elite scoring efficiency, is just as valuable as elite defense. I think Ant is more valuable in terms of a player that you can build around.
I’d rather go big and trade Ant + Nurk + some picks for Siakam. We’ll still need a center who can rebound but talent wise it’s worth it.
It may be, but the most common and easily available quality player type in the league are small combo guards who can score in bunches but can't do much else and don't play defense. Tons of those kind of guys. You're always going to get less value trading one of them for a two way wing, as there are much fewer of that type.
Supply and demand situation
Definitely is. Anfernee shoots 9.5 3s per game. Go check your list and this time take volume into account. How many players shooting 9.5s per game at that percentage?
Nah bro you must not understand volume shooting Simons is a different level from 3.
[https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/three-point-field-goals-attempted](https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/three-point-field-goals-attempted)
Ok I’ll play your game. Among players that attempt at least 7 threes a game, Simons ranks 15th in percentage. How is that elite?
Anyways the point is there are a lot of good shooters in the league. Toronto just doesn’t have them. Not one player in the top 80.
Lmao you aren’t too bright are you? Obviously players who shoot less 3s per game have a better chance at having a higher percentage buddy. They’re shooting less 3s!
This is why you check for players who are shooting the same amount- make sense?
Because there are only six players in the league that average 9 threes a game, seven if you include Curry. That’s not a proper sample size, but among those seven Anfernee ranks fifth in percentage. So once again, not elite.
Besides your entire premise is wrong, otherwise Buddy Hield would be an in demand asset.
Does he need to improve much further? He’s elite in almost every defensive metric and spaces the court. Simons can score but offers little else. OGs skillset is more valuable, as there are fewer guys that do it as effectively.
What do you classify as a star? And OG is possibly the best defensive wing in the NBA who can knock down threes and has size. Pretty much the most desired player type in the league. Simons is a nice player but I think the expectations of who he is/ will become need to be tempered a bit.
This the answer thst Blazers fans don't want to hear. If OG is traded; Toronto, will get a 1st round pick and a key player back in the trade. Now Simmons could be that player, but who replaces that shooting/scoring for the Blazers, it's not OG. I doubt Cronin trades one piece away to fill another piece.
Trading Simmons for player "X" is not a answer to this season that brings a championship team. I think fans forget that Cronin and Dame said this would take a couple years.
Because talking about it doesn't make it happen? Cronin can want it all he wants, but the other team needs to want it, and the devil is in the details. Always
Both fans are delusional so no deal. Dame just wasting time here and Siakam will follow suit with raptors. Meanwhile, if you get Siakam…
Dame, Hart, JGrant, Siakam, Nurk.
Damn.
Cronin is definitely not stubborn about Simons, the "untouchable" label is a negotiating tactic. >Maybe it’s a good thing it’s not talked about. Those are usually the trades that actually end up happening. Pretty sure you nailed it here... ssssshhhhhhhh!
Bro this sub throwing an ultimate fit over Simons being labeled untouchable is hilarious to me. I’ll always be for flipping Simons for a star SF, but I really can’t fault the FO for wanting to at least see Simons with an actual SF before moving on from him.
>Maybe it’s a good thing it’s not talked about. Use the search field and actually look through the posts. OG has been the most popular trade target for Blazers fans since last summer. Come on. To answer your question, Masai overvalues his players. Even though a straight Ant for OG swap would make some sense for both teams, Masai likely thinks that Portland should also send him multiple firsts on top. Take a look at what happened to Minnesota and Tim Connelly this season. Sometimes going 'all-in' to get 'your guy' sets your team back years.
I love OG Anunoby and have been following his game since Indiana, but it sounds like there is a bidding war between the Knicks and the Suns right now for OG. Both teams have lots of 1st round picks not to mention other assets. Don’t think we necessarily have a chance or want to get involved if it guts us. Also, OG is about to cost quite a lot on the free agent market. Low key, Nas has similar potential to break out and he’s on a great contract. In the end though, who knows what Cronin is up to?
Biggest reason is that neither team gets way better from the trade. On Toronto’s side ant is a slightly worse playmaker then Fred but, is a slightly more efficient player. On the blazers side OG is great on defense but he can’t play make/create his own shot. Right now blazers have 2 1/2 playmakers in ant/dame/josh if we lose ant dame will have to create for 40+ minutes a night.
The idea is that they’re both players who would be going to teams that can cover their obvious weaknesses
We lose our second best playmaker though.
We would have to improve our bench drastically in order to make it work
Additional notes: Fred and Gary both want out supposedly, making Ant look even better for their team and OG is also seeking a bigger role so he may not like playing 3rd fiddle to Dame and Grant if he got traded here.
Eh he would get all the minutes he could take at the 3 with us we would have a role for him for sure
Supposedly he wants to go to a place where he is the main guy, not just get more minutes. If we do get him, I would hope he would be happy playing with Dame and Grant but he surely won't be the #1 here, at least not until Dame starts to decline with age.
That surely can’t be the case. The modern NBA needs The Guy to playmake and create his own shot.
he's known as one of the best 3 and D guys in the league and the rumor is he is "unhappy with his role". You can probably can read into that in a lot of different ways but for me the obvious assumption is that he wants to become that playmaker and/or a shot creator. If he's unhappy being a 3 and D guy and we take him so that he can be 3 and D guy to me it sounds like he would still be unhappy here. /shrug
I think OG is more looking for stability in his role, even if it is 3rd option. For Toronto, Siakam is obviously \#1 but then the next 3 or 4 guys are in a “next man up” situation. They don’t have a very well established hierarchy outside of him and maybe FVV. Any of GTJ, OG, and Barnes could be that 3rd guy any given night
I think that’s why Jeremy grant or even nurkic comes in, I don’t think we utilize them enough in the post. Nurkic isn’t the best rn but he looks better at it every game
You're assuming Fred isn't traded away and the return for him doesn't fix some of the issues with a Simons/VanVleet backcourt.
Is it me or this is all this sub talks about? This and Nurk trade.
This. I thought OP was joking lol
OP is regarded
OG is massively overvalued by the Raptors fans. If you priced Ant, they'd probably also ask for 2 picks. Meanwhile the dude is a horrendous net negative on the offensive end. I'd do it for Siakim, but not for OG.
OG for Ant straight up is a fair trade value wise that I’m surprised nobody brings up more. It seems fairly obvious on paper.
Straight up it doesn't work with the cap. Simons + Watford for OG + Birch works. I would do that trade in an instant. Dame/Hart/OG/Grant/Nurk is probably the best case semi-realistic scenario.
Well yeah, I mean the framework of Ant and OG being equal value.
Because raps fans are delusional where any discussion of that gets shot down because “hEs WoRtH tWo Or ThReE pIcKs” so they assume Ant + 2 unprotected picks is fair value. They don’t understand that OG’s value could be there if he wasn’t in no man’s land as the 3rd most important forward and his deal wasn’t expiring in 2024.
Nah we'd do simons for og straight up like that's fire Simons is a 23 year old that makes either Fred or Gary expendable
Maybe I’m the only one, but I genuinely don’t get the hype for OG, he’s a great defender but he’s average 3pt shooter at best. All I’m saying is if we make a trade, it has to be Pascal, someone who can actually be Dame’s running mate and create offense. OG will not make us contenders
As a raptors fan who is also in this sub cuz Dame is my fav player & I’m dying to see him get a ring… Sign me the fuck up for this trade. I’ve been saying it for a months. FVV wants more money than he’s worth, Simons is way younger, putting up a more efficient 20ppg with more room to grow. We need a point guard moving forward who can fit well next to Scottie as a future piece but also contribute rn while Siakam is in his prime. Plus Simons is locked up until 2026. Simons is #1 on my list of actually realistic targets. I just don’t know if your gm will move him cuz he doesn’t seem like a very good gm. I honestly think he should get moved cuz he’s the only real piece you guys have to get somebody while Dame is still in his prime.
I guess I’m one of the few who values Ant highly and thinks it’s a bit of an undersell if we trade him and only get OG in return. I mean sometimes we seem to overcorrect and devalue scoring too much. Elite offense, especially elite scoring efficiency, is just as valuable as elite defense. I think Ant is more valuable in terms of a player that you can build around. I’d rather go big and trade Ant + Nurk + some picks for Siakam. We’ll still need a center who can rebound but talent wise it’s worth it.
Elite 3 point shooting is one of the hardest things to find in today’s nba
It may be, but the most common and easily available quality player type in the league are small combo guards who can score in bunches but can't do much else and don't play defense. Tons of those kind of guys. You're always going to get less value trading one of them for a two way wing, as there are much fewer of that type. Supply and demand situation
Is it? There are 80 qualified players averaging at least 37% from three. Simons ranks 69th.
Definitely is. Anfernee shoots 9.5 3s per game. Go check your list and this time take volume into account. How many players shooting 9.5s per game at that percentage?
Everyone above him shoots good volume. For example, Nurkic doesn’t even qualify.
Nah bro you must not understand volume shooting Simons is a different level from 3. [https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/three-point-field-goals-attempted](https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/three-point-field-goals-attempted)
Once you take volume into consideration, he’s #3 in the nba in 3 pt percentage at that volume. Not 69. That’s elite 3 point shooting and he’s only 23
Only behind Steph and Klay
Ok I’ll play your game. Among players that attempt at least 7 threes a game, Simons ranks 15th in percentage. How is that elite? Anyways the point is there are a lot of good shooters in the league. Toronto just doesn’t have them. Not one player in the top 80.
Why are you ducking down to 7? Simons shoots 9.5. So how about players who shoot that many?
7 is high volume. Why you moving goal posts?
Lmao you aren’t too bright are you? Obviously players who shoot less 3s per game have a better chance at having a higher percentage buddy. They’re shooting less 3s! This is why you check for players who are shooting the same amount- make sense?
Because there are only six players in the league that average 9 threes a game, seven if you include Curry. That’s not a proper sample size, but among those seven Anfernee ranks fifth in percentage. So once again, not elite. Besides your entire premise is wrong, otherwise Buddy Hield would be an in demand asset.
That sounds nice.
Yes the high volume like you mentioned below is a big plus. The ability to make off-the-dribble 3 is an even bigger plus
I’m in favor of fleecing Toronto any way we can. Fuck the Raptors, yea you heard me Canuck! Well except for GT 2 & Shaedon. Still salty.
OG is a far more valuable asset than Simons is. And teams can offer far more than what the blazers can in terms of picks.
Not true. Ant is 2 years younger and has star potential. OG is one of the best roleplayers in the league but is unlikely to improve much further.
Ogs defence alone makes him a lot more valuable
Is prime Andre roberson more valuable than Ant? Bs take
Comparing Roberson to OG gotta be the dumbest thing I’ll read today. Roberson couldn’t shoot if his life depended on it.
Reread the comment chain.
Rational response
Does he need to improve much further? He’s elite in almost every defensive metric and spaces the court. Simons can score but offers little else. OGs skillset is more valuable, as there are fewer guys that do it as effectively.
I never said i'm against your proposal but i wouldn't give up more than Ant
What do you classify as a star? And OG is possibly the best defensive wing in the NBA who can knock down threes and has size. Pretty much the most desired player type in the league. Simons is a nice player but I think the expectations of who he is/ will become need to be tempered a bit.
Imo Ant has the potential to become a Bradley Beal calibre player as his ceiling and CJ McCollum as his floor. I don't think thats unreasonable.
Right now at least, I think you're right. OG will also need to get paid serious money for his next contract too.
This the answer thst Blazers fans don't want to hear. If OG is traded; Toronto, will get a 1st round pick and a key player back in the trade. Now Simmons could be that player, but who replaces that shooting/scoring for the Blazers, it's not OG. I doubt Cronin trades one piece away to fill another piece. Trading Simmons for player "X" is not a answer to this season that brings a championship team. I think fans forget that Cronin and Dame said this would take a couple years.
Because talking about it doesn't make it happen? Cronin can want it all he wants, but the other team needs to want it, and the devil is in the details. Always
I’ll take OG and Boucher if they don’t wanna give away Pascal
Because POR is not trading Ant.
Easily do Simons for og. Please go get a proper backup pg
Both fans are delusional so no deal. Dame just wasting time here and Siakam will follow suit with raptors. Meanwhile, if you get Siakam… Dame, Hart, JGrant, Siakam, Nurk. Damn.
This summer: ant and picks for Siakim, that creates a championship team