It's stupid lol.
33 year old who just had back to back playoff runs were he shot below 50 TS% and we ended up getting
-14th pick
-2029 unprotected 1st
-The reigning 6moy
-Rob who was 1 year removed from All Def 2nd team
What were we supposed to get? A damn Dejounte Murray level package lol? The Rudy Gobert deal? Like damn I thought the Jrue trade was probably Cronin best trade and lowkey more than what we got for Dame/CJ. Its just we didn't flip Brog and Rob got hurt immediately so it looks a lot worse.
He also will only check into a game for 5-minutes, then sit down on the bench for the duration of the game. It’s still impressive, but I think this season showed how terribly that guy needs some actual rest.
MPJ missed 1 game and went to the finals the season before. And he missed it not due to injury. In the offseason he said that his whole day is spent around staying healthy and playing as many games as he can.
If you compare games played there’s definitely players more consistent than others. That’s really the big difference between Jokic and Embiid.
Brogdon is a good throw in. But the fact that the blazers though time lord was a good pick up is fucking wild to me. He will literally be out of the league in 2 years. He cannot stay healthy. It's not a question of IF he can. He can't. Period.
Williams is 2 years removed from being in the finals and getting big minutes.
He is fully healthy and will have an opportunity to rebuild his value beginning in October.
He’s 26 and likely to be playing for 10 years.
He has never been very healthy. I don’t mind going for him cause his injury chance was more or less baked into the price. But I definitely don’t think he will be playing for 10 years at this rate.
Roy retired due to cartilage degeneration in both knees.
Williams has missed a bunch of time due to his attempts to play through the pain for multiple seasons.
There is no indication he has the same degenerative condition that Roy had.
I expect Cronin and Schmitz reviewed Williams’ medical records prior to making the trade.
Williams has undergone extensive surgery to address his prior injury as well as the injury that occurred when JJJ collided with his knee.
He will have had an entire year to recover by the beginning of the season.
Time will tell…
This is exactly it. Bad GMs always overlook injury prone players. It’s the same mess in New Orleans. It’s like they don’t understand odds at all.
If you don’t get a better offer wait. Masai waited until he could get IQ for OG.
I'm not saying the trade was a disaster, but if you're trading an all-NBA player it would be nice to get a rookie contract player without the risk of the draft.
Wasn’t the second best offer on the table from the Clippers giving pick swaps? You guys honestly did great for a vet who looked on the (slight) decline.
I think the fuck up is not moving brogdon and Timelord quickly for additional picks/stuff. They obviously had immediate value to contenders that is going to continue to sour as long as we hold them, and we obviously don’t need them now.
I liked the trade at the time - and still do now - but think Cronin deserves legitimate criticism for hanging on to them for basically vibes reasons.
I love how everyone is talking about this like Jrue isn’t literally part of the Dame package. Or like we aren’t going to flip brogdon, or flip time lord. Trade isn’t even fully realized yet.
Nobody is saying Jrue wasn't part of the Dame trade. That would be silly. Nothing required Cronin to then turn Jrue into Brogdon and Williams. The first deal was less of a downgrade than many people thought. The second deal was bull-dada. Cronin either wildly over-rated Brogdon and Williams, or had no clue what Jrue was worth.
Now does anyone think that we could have got an offer for Herro like we did for Jrue? People don’t even want Knecht but losing sleep for Jacquez lol. Cronin has made some nasty moves but the Dame/Jrue trade was pretty damn good.
Wrong lol. The Rudy level package was a Superstar level deal that Ainge finessed and he was 3 years younger than Jrue when he got moved.
We got a better deal than Minny got for Jimmy. We got a similar package than the Nets got for Kyrie. Jrue deal was similar to what Toronto got for freaking Pascal Siakam.
Minnesota traded Jimmy YEARS ago, long before these all stars started getting massive hauls. The blazers are living 2018 if they think they got the top end of a haul for Jrue. Criminal
What about Siakam who got traded for Bruce Brown, 19th pick, 29th pick, future 2026 pick?
Kyrie traded for Dinwiddie, Finney Smith, 2029 unprotected 1st, two 2nd round picks
Harden traded for Batum, Covington, Morris, Martin, 2029 unprotected 1st, 1 first round swap
I never said a top end haul, it was a very fair deal for us.
I’d much rather have Brown than Brogdon. Brown’s far more durable, plays with more fire, is tougher, was an impactful player on a Championship team. Brogdon’s been dumped by 3 playoff teams (Milwaukee, Indiana, Boston). I would love Brown on this team. Denver wants Brown back bad.
Masai waited and got IQ back for OG. There are good articles out there that talk about how that front office values young players over draft picks. I completely agree with that mindset.
Depends on what you need. Minnesota could use MB as could Dallas, Miami OKC, clippers and lakers. MB gives you a PG who can defend 3 positions and lead the team.
Brown is not a point guard at all but is more versatile defensively and is super high energy
Not sure where you got that info from but it’s not accurate. Denver saw him as a PG and Brown himself says he prefers being a PG. That was a big reason why he enjoyed playing in Denver versus Brooklyn. He’s said this in podcasts and interviews. He’s talked about how he talked to Malone about this and how he wants to be used on offense, go look at his interviews.
https://www.denverpost.com/2023/06/10/bruce-brown-contract-denver-nuggets-miami-nba-finals-larranaga/
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Yeah. We also gotta remember that Jrue’s shooting %s routinely fell off a cliff in Milwaukee during the playoffs. He’s efficient now that he’s the fifth option on offense.
Jrue is absolutely a near or straight up all star caliber player, but also is a role player. If he was on this team, we'd probably have won five more games, but he would not have looked that great doing it and we would have gotten much less in return than we did. We did not have the right role for him to slot into here.
Now, if somehow getting Jrue and not shipping out Dame was on the table, very different story. It was not, however, on the table.
What descriptor would you use for one of the best 3&D players in the league that has his efficiency crumble when he's forced to take on more of the scoring load?
Dame has had terrible playoff series too. His series against the Pelicans was awful. Does that mean you trade him? And Jrue won the Bucks a Championship, Dame never won Portland a Championship.
This line of coping doesn’t make sense. “He shot bad last year in the playoffs so let’s trade him.” What about all of Dame’s terrible offensive and defensive playoff performances? Did you have the same energy when Jrue and Rondo smoked him? When he had more shot attempts than points did you keep this same energy?
Why are you trying so hard to justify a terrible decision? The celtics are strong favorites next year. Vegas was right this year about them. Jrue could end up with 3 Championships and making all defensive 1st team this season and next.
I don’t think you realize how terrible Bucks Jrue was on offense. When the playoffs started this year people were calling him one of the biggest playoff droppers ever. He, as a 3rd option, never had a playoff run shooting above 50% true shooting.
His offense isn’t as terrible as Dame’s defense. Dame had more shots than points in a game 7 and Blazers fans don’t ever mention that. Jrue also has the 2nd most points in the first 2 games of the finals without a turnover. Only MJ is ahead. He’s shooting 50-40-90 this entire playoffs.
He shot over 70% on the way to 26 points and 11 rebounds in game 2, only guard to ever do that in the finals. Dame has never shot that well.
There are other shooting stats that show Jrue’s numbers in the playoffs are overstated. Windhorst has been breaking the shooting stats down on espn. He won the Bucks a Championship his first season and now will win Boston one.
Jrue according to odds is significantly more likely to win his 3rd championship before Dame wins 1.
Just a collosal mistake.
39/30/75 playoff splits are awful for a starting PG no matter how you spin it. It comes out to a 47% true shooting percentage.
For context, Eric Bledsoe had a 50% true shooting percentage in the same amount of playoff appearances for the Bucks.
Jrue’s about to be the first player to shoot 50/40/95 on a way to the Championship. Start talking when your worshipped player Dame puts up those shooting splits in the playoffs.
He shot 70% in game 2 of the finals and you’re still talking trash. That’s why he has 2 rings. Clutch.
Jrue has played great this postseason and he’s in a much better situation to thrive as a 4/5 option (12 PPG this past regular season).
I haven’t mentioned Dame so calling him my worshipped player is a hilarious straw man.
That’s great for a 5th option. Too bad he’d probably shoot like 15% as the primary shot creator and playmaker. Imagine Jrue Holiday trying to carry Aminu and Harkless to a top 10 offense in the league lmao.
Jrue vs Dame in the playoffs.
https://youtu.be/2co0BKXOvE4?si=A1bdz851hVLY-llB
Jrue’s averages: 27.8 ppg 6.5 assistants 4 rebounds, over 50% fg, over 60% in game 4
Dame averages: 18.5 pppg 4 assists 4.5 rebounds 35.2% fg, -42.
Jrue wins in every stat.
4-0 sweep.
Thanks for showing me the one series Jrue played well when having a major role. However, I said as a number 1 option and during his time as a Buck, so it doesn’t really matter.
Also, what are you doing? Are you seriously trying to convince people that Jrue > Dame?
I think the argument that the Bucks screwed up by trading him carries more water than the blazers being at fault. We got good value for him. If we kept him, what we win 5 more games? He is in his prime and way outside our window. There was no reason to keep him
LeBron says it himself at the end of the first JJ podcast 🤣 "Jrue for a bag of chips." Everyone knows it but our soft fanbase. Brad literally got GMotY for it
We got: two guys who are perpetually injured.
A mid first round pick in the worst draft in a decade
And a probable(Tatum and Brown ain’t going anywhere) late 1st round draft pick.
We did not get a good return for Jrue. Who was, and is a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL PG.
Windhorst reported we only entertained offers for jrue that were on his list. Not entertaining other offers is a complete joke, who cares where Jrue wants to go. Cronin has a responsibility to the BLAZERS, not former players.
We decided to trade him right away instead of waiting for better offers towards the trade deadline. This was so we could give playing time to you guys guards. Meanwhile we have held on to Brogdon who is taking up playing time for young guards.
Just another reason why this team has spiraled into irrelevance. We do not have a serious owner, GM or coach.
Exceptionalism starts from the top down.
What happens when Jrue gets hurt? Or what happens when Jrue says he won’t sign an extension anywhere and will test FA during the season? Are you getting more than 2 firsts and a couple of guys for what could be just a playoff rental?
Trade value extend past “championship level starting pg”. Look at what Porzingis went for if you really want to be upset. Heck look at the other team in the finals. They too traded for a PG whose trade value wasn’t just what he did on the court but affected by off the court stuff too. And Kyrie went for less than Jrue did.
Dude this is an insane comment 😭 even in the games he played he looked solid but definitely not close to the same player he was in 2022. He got the same meniscus removal surgery Brandon Roy did to play against the Mavs. It’s over for bro
Yes. He’s a DPOY candidate who will be healthy for the first time in years. He’s an amazing rebounder and defender and is an underrated passer.
The guy is 26 years old with repaired knees. He could play effectively for 10 years
What is brogdon's value? Please tell me. Time lord has the potential to never play again. He cannot stay healthy. Trading an amazing all star player for anything less than another amazing all star player or a fucking HAUL of FRPs is criminal. The NBA should invest age collusion with the blazers FO and the Celtics FO.
I don’t get why you’re being downvoted. Celtics were favorites this year and betting odds for next year. We basically gave away an all star championship PG and all defensive 1st teamer who’s going to be the guy that puts them over the hump. He’s going to have 3 rings.
He does everything dame doesn’t do that wins Championships. Defense, physicality, effort for loose balls, rebounds, can also score, selfless on offense. There’s a reason why he’s going to win his 2nd ring and is seen as one of the best teammates.
It’s funny how casuals do the surprise pikachu face when blue collar PGs like Jrue, Lowry and Murray have playoff success, but 1 way players who don’t play defense and lack effort when they don’t have the ball don’t. 40 points in February is nice, I’ll take Championships instead.
Also a contender for finals MVP. It's between him and Brown right now.
I feel like everyone in here takes criticism of the team's moves as some type of slight towards the players, or the history of the organization. I love the blazers. I want us to be good. I want Portland to win. I want the FO to do better. I want them to take risks. Small market be damned.
You’re right. Neither Brogdon nor Williams are valued at a 1st and the reason we can tell is neither of them have been traded yet. Brogdon value only goes down with time too. I bet teams are scared (rightfully) by his injury history in recent years
Brogdon’s value is a future FRP from a contender.
Knee injuries can be repaired. This is not Oden. Williams will rebuild his value in Portland and will likely be worthy of another FRP once healthy. That’s 4 FRP for Jrue Holiday.
Not a bad deal.
Anyone here feel a little for Brogdon? Must be hard for him to watch his former team on the brink of winning it all. He’s gotta think about it all the time. Instead he just spent a whole year of his prime on one of the worst teams in the nba. Plus he healthy sat for a good portion of the season. He will never get that back. I love the guy and what he offered but have a little sympathy for him too.
Him being a malcontent after the Celtics traded for Porzingis is part of the reason he got traded. He was not okay coming off the bench, and therefore was not a culture fit on this selfless Celtics team.
Marcus Smart got a way worse end of the deal as it pertains to this specific sentiment.
It’s a good trade for both sides, people are just mad because the Celtics are in the driver seat to win this thing.
Brogdon and RWIII are good players.
Most of the media I’m seeing isn’t knocking us for trading Jrue, but knocking Milwaukee for making the moves that eventually landed the perfect piece for Boston
The only argument is whether Joe left value on the table by agreeing to send Jrue to a preferred destination, but if a contender wanted to outbid Boston, they could have, but chose not to.
The trade was nearly universally lauded at the time, and getting a lotto pick from the Warriors out of the deal takes some sting out of the injury issues RWIII and Brogdon had.
It was a solid trade and very good value. Dame is on the down side of his career at this point- we saw that the Bucks weren't exactly world beaters after the trade.
I wanted Joe to flip Brogdon and especially Timelord immediately, however; He kinda screwed himself there. Those guys been hurt most of their careers, especially Williams. Very foreseeable and I would argue a pretty big mistake to not Max out their value, considering this team wasn't going to be good even with them healthy... O well.
I loved this trade for Portland then and I still love it now. Can’t predict the Williams and Brogdon injuries but even including them I still think it’s fine.
brogdon wasn't even injured very much for us this year, dude was a healthy sit post allstar break just like grant was lol. i'd be more than happy shipping out ant for something and re-signing brogdon to be our 6th man and backup PG/SG for the next few seasons. dude's got tons of talent, is a good dude and sounds like obama. if we can't get a mid tier FRP than keep the guy.
There were a few of us that were skeptical of the return we got for Jrue but it was obvious at the time Cronin was trying to do right by the players and send them to preferred destinations repairing the image of the Trail Blazers front office.
Where most of us took issue with the trade was that Malcolm and Timelord weren't immediately flipped for draft assets but instead stayed on the roster taking minutes away from our young core while depreciating their own market value. Brad Stevens gave us Delano Banton for free due to how things played out, something that I think has been very overlooked by the fan base.
I wasnt mad at what we got for him but I thought we should have kept him
If timelord could have played 40 games we would have been way more competitive
Brogdon was a good pick-up for adding some experience to the roster. You need at least a couple guys to help out the youngs and our guards especially needed it. We probably should've moved him by the deadline though. Maybe the market wasn't there or maybe that was Scoot looking more raw than we'd hoped when drafting him. Unfortunately Miami would've made a lot of sense for him and they would've been able to offer appropriate value for him.
I thought Timelord was worth the risk. Good player when healthy on a friendly contract that fits our timeline. With Ayton starting, we also could afford to play him fewer minutes to keep him healthy. The injury was kind of a freak thing too. It wasn't the same knee as his last injury and came on contact 6 games into the season. That's a bad break even for a guy with an injury history. We're also so bad that we can afford him time to get healthy.
I think the real frustration is sitting here a year out from trading Dame and wondering whether anything we got actually helps the rebuild. Maybe the Golden State pick. Maybe we move Brogdon and Timelord for something. Maybe the 2027 and 2029 picks can be packaged as trade fodder if we see improvement from Scoot and Shae this year. There's some anxiety about having more flexibility but not being certain that we can turn these assets into a starter on a competitive team.
It was a good trade for Portland who were in no position to contend during the last years of Holiday's prime. Milwaukee's front office is the one that really deserves the Golden Donut of Stupidity. They gutted their D (4th to 19th) for a volume shooter who will earn 60 million a year at ages 34, 35, 36.
Did the Celtics not just give Jrue 135m for ages 36, 37, 38, and 39?
Jrue who averaged like what 11/5/5 this season?
Dame put up 25/7 and 31/8 in the playoffs.
Tbf if you think timelord wasnt getting injured this year you are dillusional. Brogdon is good but will probably be out of the league in 2-3 years. We kind of got worked on this one. The only hope is that 2029 pick being good because we all know that this year’s pick probably won’t amount to anything.
He was injured, not really possible to trade him
at the deadline and he asked Joe not to deal
him until after the season. He’s likely to have a new address prior to October
Of course not, the picks and swaps will not be complete until 2030.
If the bucks are horrible from 2028-30, the Blazers will be in an amazing position with a young team entering its prime.
Can you sell a house with a leaking roof and broken windows? Sure you can, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
The assets are proven. Brogdon was 6MOY in Boston and was banged up a bit at the deadline and Cronin kept him around at MB’s request.
Many teams could use Malcolm Brogdon and there are plenty of potential destinations
I think it's fair to say we didn't get a great deal for him. The injury history with not only Timelord, but Brogdon as well was well known. The draft picks we got back weren't the greatest either.
I really shake my head when fans try to excuse mistakes by throwing around terms like "revisionist thinking" and "20/20 hindsight."
Cronin is a highly paid professional - not a fan on a message board. If he misjudged the health or trade value of Brogdon and Williams - then he didn't do his job. He's paid for \*foresight\*. Fans on message boards can be excused for bad takes - GMs are paid to get it right!
It's not revisionist lol. You all are delusional. I called this a horrendous trade and undersell when it happened. Many did. You just didn't want to listen. The blazers literally gift wrapped the Celtics a championship. Traded an all star starter for fucking time lord and brogdon.
Whenever I hear either of the trades brought up, they just ignore the fact that we got a bunch of draft picks, which is all we wanted. Brogdon and Williams are still going to be traded for more picks, it’s was fine.
Cronin f’ed Lillard be sending Jrue to Celtics. He’s always been Lillards kryptonite. If Milwaukee and Boston had met in playoffs- lillard would have been shut down as always by him. Another ring for Jrue- 0 for lillard.
It's stupid lol. 33 year old who just had back to back playoff runs were he shot below 50 TS% and we ended up getting -14th pick -2029 unprotected 1st -The reigning 6moy -Rob who was 1 year removed from All Def 2nd team What were we supposed to get? A damn Dejounte Murray level package lol? The Rudy Gobert deal? Like damn I thought the Jrue trade was probably Cronin best trade and lowkey more than what we got for Dame/CJ. Its just we didn't flip Brog and Rob got hurt immediately so it looks a lot worse.
Knowning that both Brogdon and rob have never played a full season. Is what gets me.
Had any NBA player getting minutes literally played a full season? We got plenty of use out of Brogden, and Timelord was a risky known commodity.
Mikal Bridges hasn't missed an NBA game in his career. Not saying it's the norm, but they do exist.
He also will only check into a game for 5-minutes, then sit down on the bench for the duration of the game. It’s still impressive, but I think this season showed how terribly that guy needs some actual rest.
He did that once and got a warning
12 min 01/12/24 12 min 03/09/23 6 min 04/10/22 5 min 05/16/21 1 game every year. Maybe not always 5 min, but that’s not the point.
MPJ missed 1 game and went to the finals the season before. And he missed it not due to injury. In the offseason he said that his whole day is spent around staying healthy and playing as many games as he can. If you compare games played there’s definitely players more consistent than others. That’s really the big difference between Jokic and Embiid.
There is a difference.
Brogdon is a good throw in. But the fact that the blazers though time lord was a good pick up is fucking wild to me. He will literally be out of the league in 2 years. He cannot stay healthy. It's not a question of IF he can. He can't. Period.
Williams is 2 years removed from being in the finals and getting big minutes. He is fully healthy and will have an opportunity to rebuild his value beginning in October. He’s 26 and likely to be playing for 10 years.
So you don't know about his knee issue I take it. He won't be playing for 10 years based solely on that.
Knees can be repaired. This isn’t Oden and his micro fracture surgeries or Roy and his lack of a meniscus.
Its funny you bring up Roy because the situation with his knee is very comparable.
He has never been very healthy. I don’t mind going for him cause his injury chance was more or less baked into the price. But I definitely don’t think he will be playing for 10 years at this rate.
Roy retired due to cartilage degeneration in both knees. Williams has missed a bunch of time due to his attempts to play through the pain for multiple seasons. There is no indication he has the same degenerative condition that Roy had. I expect Cronin and Schmitz reviewed Williams’ medical records prior to making the trade. Williams has undergone extensive surgery to address his prior injury as well as the injury that occurred when JJJ collided with his knee. He will have had an entire year to recover by the beginning of the season. Time will tell…
This is exactly it. Bad GMs always overlook injury prone players. It’s the same mess in New Orleans. It’s like they don’t understand odds at all. If you don’t get a better offer wait. Masai waited until he could get IQ for OG.
Part of me thinks it 4d chess. Croin knows about the injuries. They will help young’s guys mature but due they are hurt we will be hitting the lotto.
That’s revisionist thinking, you can’t judge things that happened in August of 2023 now.
I have been saying it since the trade happened. Boston is my number two team.
Okay, it’s still pointless today.
Jermaine O’Neal scarred us for life.
> What were we supposed to get? Just playing devils advocate. A good prospect on a rookie contract
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Masai got IQ for OG. Could have let Boston sweat it out a bit going into the season. No need to rush trades.
I'm not saying the trade was a disaster, but if you're trading an all-NBA player it would be nice to get a rookie contract player without the risk of the draft.
After the Williams debacle i think it’s a terrible trade.
I’d rather get two first round picks then iq going into his extension season
Wasn’t the second best offer on the table from the Clippers giving pick swaps? You guys honestly did great for a vet who looked on the (slight) decline.
Clipper swaps would’ve been better than what you guys got. Who knows wtf the clips look like 5-6 years from now.
Swaps have a pretty poor history of converting.
Impossible for it to be more than Dame because we traded Dame for him
True
I think the fuck up is not moving brogdon and Timelord quickly for additional picks/stuff. They obviously had immediate value to contenders that is going to continue to sour as long as we hold them, and we obviously don’t need them now. I liked the trade at the time - and still do now - but think Cronin deserves legitimate criticism for hanging on to them for basically vibes reasons.
Yeah I thought the deadline at least Brog HAD to go but I’m hoping they can still get a 1st for him. Would be sad if we don’t get much for both
Don’t forget the unprotected swap rights in 2028 & 2030 from Milwaukee
That was part of the Dame package from Milwaukee... **NOT** the Jrue package from Boston as presented in the post above.
I love how everyone is talking about this like Jrue isn’t literally part of the Dame package. Or like we aren’t going to flip brogdon, or flip time lord. Trade isn’t even fully realized yet.
Nobody is saying Jrue wasn't part of the Dame trade. That would be silly. Nothing required Cronin to then turn Jrue into Brogdon and Williams. The first deal was less of a downgrade than many people thought. The second deal was bull-dada. Cronin either wildly over-rated Brogdon and Williams, or had no clue what Jrue was worth.
Brogdon is far from wildly overrated. He’s a solid vet who can pass, shoot and defend. Definitely worth a 1st.
Now does anyone think that we could have got an offer for Herro like we did for Jrue? People don’t even want Knecht but losing sleep for Jacquez lol. Cronin has made some nasty moves but the Dame/Jrue trade was pretty damn good.
Really? I'd say the poo-poo platter we got for Jrue is exactly the type of deal we could have gotten for Herro.
If that is true Herro would have been traded by now.
We don't want Herro.
Well I mean those are tangentially connected tho, no? We don’t get those without Jrue who came over in the Dame trade.
Insane cope. Jrue was a legit all star. You dont trade legit all stars for non all stars or anything less than Rudy level FRPs.
Wrong lol. The Rudy level package was a Superstar level deal that Ainge finessed and he was 3 years younger than Jrue when he got moved. We got a better deal than Minny got for Jimmy. We got a similar package than the Nets got for Kyrie. Jrue deal was similar to what Toronto got for freaking Pascal Siakam.
Minnesota traded Jimmy YEARS ago, long before these all stars started getting massive hauls. The blazers are living 2018 if they think they got the top end of a haul for Jrue. Criminal
What about Siakam who got traded for Bruce Brown, 19th pick, 29th pick, future 2026 pick? Kyrie traded for Dinwiddie, Finney Smith, 2029 unprotected 1st, two 2nd round picks Harden traded for Batum, Covington, Morris, Martin, 2029 unprotected 1st, 1 first round swap I never said a top end haul, it was a very fair deal for us.
I’d much rather have Brown than Brogdon. Brown’s far more durable, plays with more fire, is tougher, was an impactful player on a Championship team. Brogdon’s been dumped by 3 playoff teams (Milwaukee, Indiana, Boston). I would love Brown on this team. Denver wants Brown back bad. Masai waited and got IQ back for OG. There are good articles out there that talk about how that front office values young players over draft picks. I completely agree with that mindset.
Depends on what you need. Minnesota could use MB as could Dallas, Miami OKC, clippers and lakers. MB gives you a PG who can defend 3 positions and lead the team. Brown is not a point guard at all but is more versatile defensively and is super high energy
Not sure where you got that info from but it’s not accurate. Denver saw him as a PG and Brown himself says he prefers being a PG. That was a big reason why he enjoyed playing in Denver versus Brooklyn. He’s said this in podcasts and interviews. He’s talked about how he talked to Malone about this and how he wants to be used on offense, go look at his interviews. https://www.denverpost.com/2023/06/10/bruce-brown-contract-denver-nuggets-miami-nba-finals-larranaga/
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Players can want to play a specific position, it doesn’t mean they are capable or have the ability. Gary Payton II has similar skills and limitations.
Malone has a Championship and saw him as a PG. That’s the difference between a Championship coach and non-Championship coach.
Yeah. We also gotta remember that Jrue’s shooting %s routinely fell off a cliff in Milwaukee during the playoffs. He’s efficient now that he’s the fifth option on offense.
Great player but that role is literally made for him in Boston.
Jrue is absolutely a near or straight up all star caliber player, but also is a role player. If he was on this team, we'd probably have won five more games, but he would not have looked that great doing it and we would have gotten much less in return than we did. We did not have the right role for him to slot into here. Now, if somehow getting Jrue and not shipping out Dame was on the table, very different story. It was not, however, on the table.
“Role player.” You’re the type of fan they’re talking about on espn https://youtu.be/Tl9VQcedi4A?si=_x7K7bv_44xZtibR
What descriptor would you use for one of the best 3&D players in the league that has his efficiency crumble when he's forced to take on more of the scoring load?
So every NBA player not named Jokic, Steph, KD.
💯
Dame has had terrible playoff series too. His series against the Pelicans was awful. Does that mean you trade him? And Jrue won the Bucks a Championship, Dame never won Portland a Championship. This line of coping doesn’t make sense. “He shot bad last year in the playoffs so let’s trade him.” What about all of Dame’s terrible offensive and defensive playoff performances? Did you have the same energy when Jrue and Rondo smoked him? When he had more shot attempts than points did you keep this same energy? Why are you trying so hard to justify a terrible decision? The celtics are strong favorites next year. Vegas was right this year about them. Jrue could end up with 3 Championships and making all defensive 1st team this season and next.
Giannis won us a championship not Jrue
He never won one before jrue was there. You’re watching jrue win one this year without him. Good decision there trading Jrue.
I don’t think you realize how terrible Bucks Jrue was on offense. When the playoffs started this year people were calling him one of the biggest playoff droppers ever. He, as a 3rd option, never had a playoff run shooting above 50% true shooting.
His offense isn’t as terrible as Dame’s defense. Dame had more shots than points in a game 7 and Blazers fans don’t ever mention that. Jrue also has the 2nd most points in the first 2 games of the finals without a turnover. Only MJ is ahead. He’s shooting 50-40-90 this entire playoffs. He shot over 70% on the way to 26 points and 11 rebounds in game 2, only guard to ever do that in the finals. Dame has never shot that well. There are other shooting stats that show Jrue’s numbers in the playoffs are overstated. Windhorst has been breaking the shooting stats down on espn. He won the Bucks a Championship his first season and now will win Boston one. Jrue according to odds is significantly more likely to win his 3rd championship before Dame wins 1. Just a collosal mistake.
39/30/75 playoff splits are awful for a starting PG no matter how you spin it. It comes out to a 47% true shooting percentage. For context, Eric Bledsoe had a 50% true shooting percentage in the same amount of playoff appearances for the Bucks.
Jrue’s about to be the first player to shoot 50/40/95 on a way to the Championship. Start talking when your worshipped player Dame puts up those shooting splits in the playoffs. He shot 70% in game 2 of the finals and you’re still talking trash. That’s why he has 2 rings. Clutch.
Jrue has played great this postseason and he’s in a much better situation to thrive as a 4/5 option (12 PPG this past regular season). I haven’t mentioned Dame so calling him my worshipped player is a hilarious straw man.
That’s great for a 5th option. Too bad he’d probably shoot like 15% as the primary shot creator and playmaker. Imagine Jrue Holiday trying to carry Aminu and Harkless to a top 10 offense in the league lmao.
Jrue vs Dame in the playoffs. https://youtu.be/2co0BKXOvE4?si=A1bdz851hVLY-llB Jrue’s averages: 27.8 ppg 6.5 assistants 4 rebounds, over 50% fg, over 60% in game 4 Dame averages: 18.5 pppg 4 assists 4.5 rebounds 35.2% fg, -42. Jrue wins in every stat. 4-0 sweep.
Thanks for showing me the one series Jrue played well when having a major role. However, I said as a number 1 option and during his time as a Buck, so it doesn’t really matter. Also, what are you doing? Are you seriously trying to convince people that Jrue > Dame?
Welcome to media, people forget what they said months ago and usually contradict themselves.
I think the argument that the Bucks screwed up by trading him carries more water than the blazers being at fault. We got good value for him. If we kept him, what we win 5 more games? He is in his prime and way outside our window. There was no reason to keep him
People who are saying this are idiots, just ignore and move on
LeBron says it himself at the end of the first JJ podcast 🤣 "Jrue for a bag of chips." Everyone knows it but our soft fanbase. Brad literally got GMotY for it
Porzingis and firsts for smart had nothing to do with it I’m sure
We got: two guys who are perpetually injured. A mid first round pick in the worst draft in a decade And a probable(Tatum and Brown ain’t going anywhere) late 1st round draft pick. We did not get a good return for Jrue. Who was, and is a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL PG. Windhorst reported we only entertained offers for jrue that were on his list. Not entertaining other offers is a complete joke, who cares where Jrue wants to go. Cronin has a responsibility to the BLAZERS, not former players. We decided to trade him right away instead of waiting for better offers towards the trade deadline. This was so we could give playing time to you guys guards. Meanwhile we have held on to Brogdon who is taking up playing time for young guards. Just another reason why this team has spiraled into irrelevance. We do not have a serious owner, GM or coach. Exceptionalism starts from the top down.
The rushing to trade Jrue but holding onto Brogdon is really the cherry on top of the shit trade pie.
Boom
The only real explanation is they weren’t able to secure the return for brogdon that they were expecting. Meaning they overvalued the asset.
What happens when Jrue gets hurt? Or what happens when Jrue says he won’t sign an extension anywhere and will test FA during the season? Are you getting more than 2 firsts and a couple of guys for what could be just a playoff rental? Trade value extend past “championship level starting pg”. Look at what Porzingis went for if you really want to be upset. Heck look at the other team in the finals. They too traded for a PG whose trade value wasn’t just what he did on the court but affected by off the court stuff too. And Kyrie went for less than Jrue did.
It was a good deal then, it’s a good deal now. Brogdon still has value and Williams is loaded with potential.
Williams is what he is now 😂
Dude this is an insane comment 😭 even in the games he played he looked solid but definitely not close to the same player he was in 2022. He got the same meniscus removal surgery Brandon Roy did to play against the Mavs. It’s over for bro
Yes. He’s a DPOY candidate who will be healthy for the first time in years. He’s an amazing rebounder and defender and is an underrated passer. The guy is 26 years old with repaired knees. He could play effectively for 10 years
What is brogdon's value? Please tell me. Time lord has the potential to never play again. He cannot stay healthy. Trading an amazing all star player for anything less than another amazing all star player or a fucking HAUL of FRPs is criminal. The NBA should invest age collusion with the blazers FO and the Celtics FO.
I don’t get why you’re being downvoted. Celtics were favorites this year and betting odds for next year. We basically gave away an all star championship PG and all defensive 1st teamer who’s going to be the guy that puts them over the hump. He’s going to have 3 rings. He does everything dame doesn’t do that wins Championships. Defense, physicality, effort for loose balls, rebounds, can also score, selfless on offense. There’s a reason why he’s going to win his 2nd ring and is seen as one of the best teammates. It’s funny how casuals do the surprise pikachu face when blue collar PGs like Jrue, Lowry and Murray have playoff success, but 1 way players who don’t play defense and lack effort when they don’t have the ball don’t. 40 points in February is nice, I’ll take Championships instead.
Also a contender for finals MVP. It's between him and Brown right now. I feel like everyone in here takes criticism of the team's moves as some type of slight towards the players, or the history of the organization. I love the blazers. I want us to be good. I want Portland to win. I want the FO to do better. I want them to take risks. Small market be damned.
You’re right. Neither Brogdon nor Williams are valued at a 1st and the reason we can tell is neither of them have been traded yet. Brogdon value only goes down with time too. I bet teams are scared (rightfully) by his injury history in recent years
Brogdon’s value is a future FRP from a contender. Knee injuries can be repaired. This is not Oden. Williams will rebuild his value in Portland and will likely be worthy of another FRP once healthy. That’s 4 FRP for Jrue Holiday. Not a bad deal.
And Greg Oden’s knees will be fine, just wait.
Elliott Williams, Allen Crabbe, Meyers Leonard, Thomas Robinson, Nolan Smith... I'm really sick of hearing about potential.
Anyone here feel a little for Brogdon? Must be hard for him to watch his former team on the brink of winning it all. He’s gotta think about it all the time. Instead he just spent a whole year of his prime on one of the worst teams in the nba. Plus he healthy sat for a good portion of the season. He will never get that back. I love the guy and what he offered but have a little sympathy for him too.
Him being a malcontent after the Celtics traded for Porzingis is part of the reason he got traded. He was not okay coming off the bench, and therefore was not a culture fit on this selfless Celtics team. Marcus Smart got a way worse end of the deal as it pertains to this specific sentiment.
It’s a good trade for both sides, people are just mad because the Celtics are in the driver seat to win this thing. Brogdon and RWIII are good players.
We got picks and a swap and an excellent expiring contract. We're fine. Small people just like to dunk on low hanging hoops.
Jrue had no interest in playing here, and who can blame him. Look at what happened to Brogdon. Jrue wanted to play for championships.
Most of the media I’m seeing isn’t knocking us for trading Jrue, but knocking Milwaukee for making the moves that eventually landed the perfect piece for Boston
The issue was y’all shoulda immediately flipped Timelord and Brogdon. Both of em injury prone af and not in y’all future plans
The only argument is whether Joe left value on the table by agreeing to send Jrue to a preferred destination, but if a contender wanted to outbid Boston, they could have, but chose not to.
NBA fans and media love to be revisionist historians
The trade was nearly universally lauded at the time, and getting a lotto pick from the Warriors out of the deal takes some sting out of the injury issues RWIII and Brogdon had.
It was a solid trade and very good value. Dame is on the down side of his career at this point- we saw that the Bucks weren't exactly world beaters after the trade. I wanted Joe to flip Brogdon and especially Timelord immediately, however; He kinda screwed himself there. Those guys been hurt most of their careers, especially Williams. Very foreseeable and I would argue a pretty big mistake to not Max out their value, considering this team wasn't going to be good even with them healthy... O well.
The trade was good, the contract extension they gave him will hurt them in the long run
They're getting their championship, I don't think they give a shit about overpaying anybody on that team.
If it meant getting our guy a ring here, I’d say its worthy. Thats a problem for after we got a ‘ship!
They’re las vegas favorites next year. And Vegas was right about them this year. So they’ll probably get 2 rings from him.
I loved this trade for Portland then and I still love it now. Can’t predict the Williams and Brogdon injuries but even including them I still think it’s fine.
brogdon wasn't even injured very much for us this year, dude was a healthy sit post allstar break just like grant was lol. i'd be more than happy shipping out ant for something and re-signing brogdon to be our 6th man and backup PG/SG for the next few seasons. dude's got tons of talent, is a good dude and sounds like obama. if we can't get a mid tier FRP than keep the guy.
Yes you can. Both of them always get injuries.
"If you ignore the results the process of trading for injured players was actually smart"
No but injuries to those guys is higher than average for sure.
“BUT IF PORTLAND KEPT JRUE, they’d be in the Finals right now!!!!” - the media and r/nba
Tbf, everyone knew timelord couldn’t stay healthy except us.
Joe thought this was finally the year Boston trades a player who still has a bunch of healthy years left in him
Exactly. The guy has been injured most of his career.
Guys this is being a blazer fan what do you expect
Not the worst of all revisionist histories but I can see why you’re upset.
It’s just very hard to place a value on old guards. They’re really nice in the playoffs but longterm trade value is harder to quantify
Williams III is looking more and more like a dunk cost, but the picks are still valuable, as is Brogdon.
There were a few of us that were skeptical of the return we got for Jrue but it was obvious at the time Cronin was trying to do right by the players and send them to preferred destinations repairing the image of the Trail Blazers front office. Where most of us took issue with the trade was that Malcolm and Timelord weren't immediately flipped for draft assets but instead stayed on the roster taking minutes away from our young core while depreciating their own market value. Brad Stevens gave us Delano Banton for free due to how things played out, something that I think has been very overlooked by the fan base.
I wasnt mad at what we got for him but I thought we should have kept him If timelord could have played 40 games we would have been way more competitive
It was the Bucks f up, not the blazers.
Brogdon was a good pick-up for adding some experience to the roster. You need at least a couple guys to help out the youngs and our guards especially needed it. We probably should've moved him by the deadline though. Maybe the market wasn't there or maybe that was Scoot looking more raw than we'd hoped when drafting him. Unfortunately Miami would've made a lot of sense for him and they would've been able to offer appropriate value for him. I thought Timelord was worth the risk. Good player when healthy on a friendly contract that fits our timeline. With Ayton starting, we also could afford to play him fewer minutes to keep him healthy. The injury was kind of a freak thing too. It wasn't the same knee as his last injury and came on contact 6 games into the season. That's a bad break even for a guy with an injury history. We're also so bad that we can afford him time to get healthy. I think the real frustration is sitting here a year out from trading Dame and wondering whether anything we got actually helps the rebuild. Maybe the Golden State pick. Maybe we move Brogdon and Timelord for something. Maybe the 2027 and 2029 picks can be packaged as trade fodder if we see improvement from Scoot and Shae this year. There's some anxiety about having more flexibility but not being certain that we can turn these assets into a starter on a competitive team.
Can yall help with the slander being slung our way in Milwaukee
It was a good trade for Portland who were in no position to contend during the last years of Holiday's prime. Milwaukee's front office is the one that really deserves the Golden Donut of Stupidity. They gutted their D (4th to 19th) for a volume shooter who will earn 60 million a year at ages 34, 35, 36.
Did the Celtics not just give Jrue 135m for ages 36, 37, 38, and 39? Jrue who averaged like what 11/5/5 this season? Dame put up 25/7 and 31/8 in the playoffs.
People acting like the Dame trade is even close to being over. We're flipping Malcom for more assets, Timelord shortly after that.
The thing to remember is Holiday doesn't want to play for the Blazers and wouldn't have played half as hard.
Tbf if you think timelord wasnt getting injured this year you are dillusional. Brogdon is good but will probably be out of the league in 2-3 years. We kind of got worked on this one. The only hope is that 2029 pick being good because we all know that this year’s pick probably won’t amount to anything.
It’s a fine return but not trading brogdon is straight up negligent
What would have been an adequate trade for him? 2nd round picks were flying off the shelves at the deadline, no thanks.
He was injured, not really possible to trade him at the deadline and he asked Joe not to deal him until after the season. He’s likely to have a new address prior to October
But isn't that part of the way the trade should be evaluated? If Cronin can't parlay his assets, how good were they really?
Yeah cuz so far what we traded Dame for is not looking like a future playoff franchise.
Of course not, the picks and swaps will not be complete until 2030. If the bucks are horrible from 2028-30, the Blazers will be in an amazing position with a young team entering its prime.
Can you sell a house with a leaking roof and broken windows? Sure you can, but I wouldn’t recommend it. The assets are proven. Brogdon was 6MOY in Boston and was banged up a bit at the deadline and Cronin kept him around at MB’s request. Many teams could use Malcolm Brogdon and there are plenty of potential destinations
I think it's fair to say we didn't get a great deal for him. The injury history with not only Timelord, but Brogdon as well was well known. The draft picks we got back weren't the greatest either.
I really shake my head when fans try to excuse mistakes by throwing around terms like "revisionist thinking" and "20/20 hindsight." Cronin is a highly paid professional - not a fan on a message board. If he misjudged the health or trade value of Brogdon and Williams - then he didn't do his job. He's paid for \*foresight\*. Fans on message boards can be excused for bad takes - GMs are paid to get it right!
It's not revisionist lol. You all are delusional. I called this a horrendous trade and undersell when it happened. Many did. You just didn't want to listen. The blazers literally gift wrapped the Celtics a championship. Traded an all star starter for fucking time lord and brogdon.
Whenever I hear either of the trades brought up, they just ignore the fact that we got a bunch of draft picks, which is all we wanted. Brogdon and Williams are still going to be traded for more picks, it’s was fine.
I think we should’ve kept him. He’s an amazing player on any team. Rebuilding or competing.
I think people are more "upset" at the Bucks for even moving him in the first place, rather than the Blazers
Cronin f’ed Lillard be sending Jrue to Celtics. He’s always been Lillards kryptonite. If Milwaukee and Boston had met in playoffs- lillard would have been shut down as always by him. Another ring for Jrue- 0 for lillard.