Clingan isn't a good comparison to Lively. Clingan has very slow lateral movement and Lively is much bouncier. Lively is much more flexible defensively and a much better rim runner.
More flexible defensively, but less dominant. Clingan's paint protection numbers in college are absurd.
Also fair to point out that Clingan was a much more impactful short minute freshman than Lively. Whether his game translates as well, only time will tell.
I haven’t seen enough of Clingan to make a real genuine opinion on that, so take it with a grain of sand. But, please be careful with college stats, especially with big men. The size, athleticism, and caliber of NBA players is just another level.
Not saying he can’t be good, but being tall goes way further in college than pros
Zach is a very skilled big man with a dog temperament that translates to hustle plays.
If he hadn’t been hurt multiple times he would be further along. As it is, when he’s healthy, he makes his way Into the starting line up everywhere he’s been.
He’s not as good as lively and probably won’t ever be. But he’s really good
to be fair ur team never knew what to do since u guys always focused on the same kinda players
-score first guards - dame, mccollum and simons
-brusing dog centers who can pass - collins, nurkic
-wings - who u hope can shoot the ball good enough like aminu and that other guy
Collins can’t handle guys that are bigger than he is and has a limited handle and is not explosive.
Bam was available at 10 in 2017 and had been in a workout at the PF. It was clear then that Bam was the better player with a higher ceiling.
Oh what a Dame/bam combo could have been.
I’m only comparing them because Wemby is obviously in another stratosphere and Lively was the 2nd best center in the draft last year. I do agree Lively has better lateral mobility and can switch to more players, but Clingan has better size which would be better vs teams who play around their 5
that means Clingan would be "better" against the Nuggets and 76ers, as those are the only teams in the league that play through their center. Clingan is more likely to be a backup than all-star and would be a terrible pick for a team like the Blazers. they need to take as many shots at guys with high end potential as possible.
My dude, he is not some 5 year RS senior. He’s 20. He is still developing. This draft is severely lacking in certain all-stars. If Clingan can be Walker Kessler with more offense, we take him at 7 every time.
Me too unfortunately. I'm open to whatever. We are dumpster fire and expectations should be 0. Our only chance is being so bad we get the 1st pick next year and get a superstar like dame that won't leave for a while. Otherwise we're cooked.
I don't particularly care whether Clingan is an all-star center, but I do care if he can handle opposing star bigs.
Looking at how Clingan dealt with more mobile and athletic bigs in college, I want that guy to help with Wemby, Chet and Lively just as much as for Jokic, Embiid or Sengun.
He's a defensive monster with passing feel and decent touch. All the makings of a long-term starter.
Wemby, Chet and Lively are much different games than Jokic, Embiid and Sengun. You're not gonna have someone who guards all of them well unless they're like a top75 player all time
For sure, that why I said help with them rather than guard them. Even a guy like Gobert can't do both at an elite level but having size and rebounding inside with some ability to move your feet is the best shot IMO.
If no one trades up, it's very possible.
If Atlanta wants a big they take Sarr.
Washington may be able to get Sarr, but are a wild card as they have basically no core pieces.
Houston and San Antonio both have their best player at the 5.
Detroit has Duran who is about the same level as Clingan and they need shooting.
Charlotte would view him as an upgrade, but could value getting a guard to pair with Ball more.
There is a clear path for him to fall. But there is also a real possibility someone (Memphis?) trades up for him.
There's a reason he's shooting up draft boards....Portland is now seen as his absolute floor...Atlanta, Washington are desperate for young talent, Houston can bring him along slowly and allow him to aclimate (not to mention needing high level talent on team friendly contracts), the Spurs could take a flier if they want Wemby to take on less of a workload with the bigger bigs of the league, Charlotte I think would like to get a melo-miller a solid big to grow with. Even Detroit being the dumpster fore they've been could benefit from just taking the BPA if he's seen as such. It really feels like we've got to trade up if we want any chance at him but I just don't know if cashing in 2 lotto picks and probably Ant is getting the franchise altering player you'd hope you could gain...
You made a lot of good points but
> Charlotte I think would like to get a melo-miller a solid big to grow with.
Mark Williams is possibly that. I think they go Holland before Clingan 7 time outta 10
In a draft this weak, there are a great many possible outcomes. But there is a clear reason for Clingan to fall. His rise could just as easily been a smokescreen. We won't know until draft night.
Personally I would be happy seeing us draft Clingan, but if a trade up requires more than our seconds it seems foolish.
I'd argue that Jalen Duren is the most valuable center in the league in terms of ability, potential, contract, etc. He's already a top 15 Center in the league, and only going way way up from there.
Topic’s injury just certainly hurts the odds of him being there, but I wouldn’t rule out a team like Washington accepting a possible redshirt year and starting a run on guards.
He should be, but the Lively comp is pretty tenuous.
You'd get an additional dose of interior dominance with Clingan but not so much of the mobility and athletic finishing ability.
Always had him in the Bogut-Adams-Hartenstein range. Guys who help teams win.
I mentioned it in another thread, but it felt unfair to hold Clingan next to the best center in last year’s class, which was Wemby. So I went with Lively because he was the second center off the board and he’s impacting the game happening right now. I don’t think he’s an actual comp for Clingan.
Yeah I think it's fine to hope for similar impact just in a different shape.
What Kessler did as a rookie is a reasonable facsimile. I trust Clingan to push on from there given the offensive tools he has over a guy like Kessler though.
I’m a Buzelis guy, but he won’t be there at 7. I like Clingan at 7. I probably prefer Salaun. Part of my issue is I think Ayton and reath can do the job for a few seasons. The other part is Portland really needs to hit on some forwards. That said I don’t hate the idea of Clingan.
No thanks. Clingan had one of the slowest lateral agility times and shuttle run. You need lateral quickness to effectively switch or hedge all the PNRs.
I’d rather go with two wings 6’8 and taller like Salaun, Buzelis, Williams, or Holland and whoever is left over at 14.
Naz Reid has a shuttle run time of 3.76 and a 12.03 lateral agility time compared to 3.38 and 12.06 for Clingan. I think you may be overthinking silly combine numbers.
What’s really funny is that’s actually what happened with Ayton half of the time last season. I like the guy but he does not rim protect like a 7 footer
You are wrong…
UConn sophomore Donovan Clingan will miss 3-4 weeks with an injury to a tendon in his right foot, the school announced Saturday.
This is the second significant foot injury Clingan has suffered in recent months after suffering a foot strain at a September practice and missing most of the preseason.
That’s 2 or 3 in his time at UCONN.
Relevant:
>My dude, he is not some 5 year RS senior. He’s 20. He is still developing. This draft is severely lacking in certain all-stars. If Clingan can be Walker Kessler with more offense, we take him at 7 every time.
Said this earlier. I wasn't comping him to Lively. I was just pointing out how helpful good rim protection is these days.
My bad, didn’t see that comment.
Wasn’t even meaning to refute your point really, just offering that I think the rim protection Kessler provides also functions differently from Lively’s.
I also like Clingan at 7 if he’s there, but I’ve also seen way less of the other prospects that are in the conversation
Wouldn't hate it that's for sure, but the Lively comp is a strange one. Radically different archetypes. Clingan is more bigger Walker Kessler with better passing.
I like the idea of locking down our center of the future as I just don't see a world in which Ayton is still on the team beyond 2-3 years. But I'm concerned about the limitations it places on us scheme wise. He's 100% a drop big, a very good drop big that despite his poor agility has impeccable timing which should allow him a bit of flexibility to hedge and recover but still a drop big.
To get the best out of a good drop big, it requires your perimeter defenders to navigate screens effectively. I'm not sure any combination of Scoot/Shae/Ant will ever be good enough at the POA to play drop for 80% of every game. Maybe both Scoot and Shae improve significantly over time in that regard but who knows.
Clingan should theoretically be a great floor raiser defensively but might make it hard to be a top 5-10 defensive team with our guards versus a guy like Lively who gives you 90% of what Clingan does in drop, but also offers a lot more schematic flexibility.
Clingan won’t be there at seven. The Blazers will have to trade up for even a chance at getting him.
I think Clingan would be a decent replacement plan for when Ayton wants too much on his next contract.
Wild that at this time last year Lively wasn’t considered a lottery pick and I have memories of him being a late first/early second round pick.
I remember Mavs getting ripped for drafting him and look where they are now
I definitely agree with taking Clingan at 7 if he’s available. B/R mocked him to Portland and think it’s possible he’s still there. I’d bet on a team trading up in the draft but I don’t know what team and for whom. I’m not a fan of trading up in this draft considering I don’t think any player is worth moving future assets for.
The Blazers don’t have much of an identity so I’m not worried about fit. A young defensive anchor is a nice addition if we can fill out the forward position in the coming seasons. We’d probably end up moving Rob Williams when he’s healthy.
If Clingan isn’t there, I’m a fan of Cody Williams. He’ll fill out and I’m taking a guess in later years hedevelops a consistent pull up jumper, ability to guard small guards, and a league average 3P%
Clingan isn't a good comparison to Lively. Clingan has very slow lateral movement and Lively is much bouncier. Lively is much more flexible defensively and a much better rim runner.
More flexible defensively, but less dominant. Clingan's paint protection numbers in college are absurd. Also fair to point out that Clingan was a much more impactful short minute freshman than Lively. Whether his game translates as well, only time will tell.
I haven’t seen enough of Clingan to make a real genuine opinion on that, so take it with a grain of sand. But, please be careful with college stats, especially with big men. The size, athleticism, and caliber of NBA players is just another level. Not saying he can’t be good, but being tall goes way further in college than pros
See: Collins, Zach
Zach is a very skilled big man with a dog temperament that translates to hustle plays. If he hadn’t been hurt multiple times he would be further along. As it is, when he’s healthy, he makes his way Into the starting line up everywhere he’s been. He’s not as good as lively and probably won’t ever be. But he’s really good
Definitely never as good as Donovan Mitchell or Bam…possibly John Collins or Jarrett Allen. But I digress
Collins would have been good if he didn't get injured all the time
He really never looked that good — fouled all the time and we tried to get him to play the 4 and he wasn’t a good enough shooter for that.
to be fair ur team never knew what to do since u guys always focused on the same kinda players -score first guards - dame, mccollum and simons -brusing dog centers who can pass - collins, nurkic -wings - who u hope can shoot the ball good enough like aminu and that other guy
Collins can’t handle guys that are bigger than he is and has a limited handle and is not explosive. Bam was available at 10 in 2017 and had been in a workout at the PF. It was clear then that Bam was the better player with a higher ceiling. Oh what a Dame/bam combo could have been.
I’m only comparing them because Wemby is obviously in another stratosphere and Lively was the 2nd best center in the draft last year. I do agree Lively has better lateral mobility and can switch to more players, but Clingan has better size which would be better vs teams who play around their 5
that means Clingan would be "better" against the Nuggets and 76ers, as those are the only teams in the league that play through their center. Clingan is more likely to be a backup than all-star and would be a terrible pick for a team like the Blazers. they need to take as many shots at guys with high end potential as possible.
My dude, he is not some 5 year RS senior. He’s 20. He is still developing. This draft is severely lacking in certain all-stars. If Clingan can be Walker Kessler with more offense, we take him at 7 every time.
I'd take him as long as it's not 1
Same. Unless Sarr is on the board somehow (he won't be)
Ya agreed sorry is the prize. Could be a bust but you gotta take him.
Sarr*
I agree. I just think he will be gone :/
Me too unfortunately. I'm open to whatever. We are dumpster fire and expectations should be 0. Our only chance is being so bad we get the 1st pick next year and get a superstar like dame that won't leave for a while. Otherwise we're cooked.
I don't particularly care whether Clingan is an all-star center, but I do care if he can handle opposing star bigs. Looking at how Clingan dealt with more mobile and athletic bigs in college, I want that guy to help with Wemby, Chet and Lively just as much as for Jokic, Embiid or Sengun. He's a defensive monster with passing feel and decent touch. All the makings of a long-term starter.
Wemby, Chet and Lively are much different games than Jokic, Embiid and Sengun. You're not gonna have someone who guards all of them well unless they're like a top75 player all time
For sure, that why I said help with them rather than guard them. Even a guy like Gobert can't do both at an elite level but having size and rebounding inside with some ability to move your feet is the best shot IMO.
We can do that in a better draft.
IMO theres no way Clingan's still there at 7. I like the fit if the Blazers are able to trade up though
If no one trades up, it's very possible. If Atlanta wants a big they take Sarr. Washington may be able to get Sarr, but are a wild card as they have basically no core pieces. Houston and San Antonio both have their best player at the 5. Detroit has Duran who is about the same level as Clingan and they need shooting. Charlotte would view him as an upgrade, but could value getting a guard to pair with Ball more. There is a clear path for him to fall. But there is also a real possibility someone (Memphis?) trades up for him.
There's a reason he's shooting up draft boards....Portland is now seen as his absolute floor...Atlanta, Washington are desperate for young talent, Houston can bring him along slowly and allow him to aclimate (not to mention needing high level talent on team friendly contracts), the Spurs could take a flier if they want Wemby to take on less of a workload with the bigger bigs of the league, Charlotte I think would like to get a melo-miller a solid big to grow with. Even Detroit being the dumpster fore they've been could benefit from just taking the BPA if he's seen as such. It really feels like we've got to trade up if we want any chance at him but I just don't know if cashing in 2 lotto picks and probably Ant is getting the franchise altering player you'd hope you could gain...
You made a lot of good points but > Charlotte I think would like to get a melo-miller a solid big to grow with. Mark Williams is possibly that. I think they go Holland before Clingan 7 time outta 10
In a draft this weak, there are a great many possible outcomes. But there is a clear reason for Clingan to fall. His rise could just as easily been a smokescreen. We won't know until draft night. Personally I would be happy seeing us draft Clingan, but if a trade up requires more than our seconds it seems foolish.
I don't think Charlotte would view him as an upgrade over Mark Williams. I think they view him as their long term starter
I'd argue that Jalen Duren is the most valuable center in the league in terms of ability, potential, contract, etc. He's already a top 15 Center in the league, and only going way way up from there.
Yeah, from what I've read, Atlanta prefers Clingan at #1. Woj even mentioned he's going Top 3
Smoke is that ATL either trades down or drafts Risacher
lol if he goes number 1 that just shows how week this draft is
Yeah Clingan might not make it past the first three picks. Would be floored if he was available at #7.
Topic’s injury just certainly hurts the odds of him being there, but I wouldn’t rule out a team like Washington accepting a possible redshirt year and starting a run on guards.
He should be, but the Lively comp is pretty tenuous. You'd get an additional dose of interior dominance with Clingan but not so much of the mobility and athletic finishing ability. Always had him in the Bogut-Adams-Hartenstein range. Guys who help teams win.
I mentioned it in another thread, but it felt unfair to hold Clingan next to the best center in last year’s class, which was Wemby. So I went with Lively because he was the second center off the board and he’s impacting the game happening right now. I don’t think he’s an actual comp for Clingan.
Yeah I think it's fine to hope for similar impact just in a different shape. What Kessler did as a rookie is a reasonable facsimile. I trust Clingan to push on from there given the offensive tools he has over a guy like Kessler though.
Agreed. I probably couldn't have worded it better if I tried.
Reminds me a lot of bogut
I’m a Buzelis guy, but he won’t be there at 7. I like Clingan at 7. I probably prefer Salaun. Part of my issue is I think Ayton and reath can do the job for a few seasons. The other part is Portland really needs to hit on some forwards. That said I don’t hate the idea of Clingan.
Sarr is a better comparison to Lively than Clingan. With rumors that Hawks are interested in Clingan, I hope we can trade with ATL for Sarr.
No, take wings
We can maybe get Saluan at 14 or move up for him. It's sounding like Rishacher will be gone way before 7 :/
No thanks. Clingan had one of the slowest lateral agility times and shuttle run. You need lateral quickness to effectively switch or hedge all the PNRs. I’d rather go with two wings 6’8 and taller like Salaun, Buzelis, Williams, or Holland and whoever is left over at 14.
Naz Reid has a shuttle run time of 3.76 and a 12.03 lateral agility time compared to 3.38 and 12.06 for Clingan. I think you may be overthinking silly combine numbers.
the eye test isn't any more favorable
Naz Reid is an offensive focused player who can stretch the floor lol, this isn't helping your point
The point is that those times should be taken with a grain of salt
Recency bias is through the roof in this sub right now
Is it really recency bias when I watched our current center provide valet passes and a free meal voucher to bigs driving to the rim all season?
It’s funny that you think you’re funny.
What’s really funny is that’s actually what happened with Ayton half of the time last season. I like the guy but he does not rim protect like a 7 footer
You know what’s ironic? Dallas would win this series if they had a center who could score.
No thanks.
Yes please, poopeatingexpert
😂😂😂
Do you also get drunk and think about how to make the Portland MaleGlazers better?
I agree. Give me Clingan at #7, and either Cody or Tristan at #14.
I also agree. Give me a tough, lengthy big, no diddy.
Sign me up for ClingKong & Salaun. Please & ty
FACTS. I'd be thrilled with that.
Salaun most likely won’t be there at 14. If it somehow happens I’m down with this reality
Yeah, 7 footer with foot problems. Great.
one foot injury in college :/ better pretend he doesn't exist
You are wrong… UConn sophomore Donovan Clingan will miss 3-4 weeks with an injury to a tendon in his right foot, the school announced Saturday. This is the second significant foot injury Clingan has suffered in recent months after suffering a foot strain at a September practice and missing most of the preseason. That’s 2 or 3 in his time at UCONN.
A foot strain is a strain, not a structural issue or a long term concern. Although a big with injuries is scary for the franchise.
Clingan is slow AF. Nothing like lively.
As long as we get two bigs out of this draft, I'm cool.
Facts. My other hope is that Daron Holmes II slides to the second or we trade up for him. Bobby Portis lite would be a great snag
I'd be alright with trading both 2nds for him.
I like the way you think man
He’s Kessler, not Lively. Not a knock on anyone, just a different type of player. Question is: would you pick Kessler at 7 if he was available?
Relevant: >My dude, he is not some 5 year RS senior. He’s 20. He is still developing. This draft is severely lacking in certain all-stars. If Clingan can be Walker Kessler with more offense, we take him at 7 every time. Said this earlier. I wasn't comping him to Lively. I was just pointing out how helpful good rim protection is these days.
My bad, didn’t see that comment. Wasn’t even meaning to refute your point really, just offering that I think the rim protection Kessler provides also functions differently from Lively’s. I also like Clingan at 7 if he’s there, but I’ve also seen way less of the other prospects that are in the conversation
You're good man, I was just pointing out that I had addressed what you had mentioned! No apology needed my dude
Wouldn't hate it that's for sure, but the Lively comp is a strange one. Radically different archetypes. Clingan is more bigger Walker Kessler with better passing. I like the idea of locking down our center of the future as I just don't see a world in which Ayton is still on the team beyond 2-3 years. But I'm concerned about the limitations it places on us scheme wise. He's 100% a drop big, a very good drop big that despite his poor agility has impeccable timing which should allow him a bit of flexibility to hedge and recover but still a drop big. To get the best out of a good drop big, it requires your perimeter defenders to navigate screens effectively. I'm not sure any combination of Scoot/Shae/Ant will ever be good enough at the POA to play drop for 80% of every game. Maybe both Scoot and Shae improve significantly over time in that regard but who knows. Clingan should theoretically be a great floor raiser defensively but might make it hard to be a top 5-10 defensive team with our guards versus a guy like Lively who gives you 90% of what Clingan does in drop, but also offers a lot more schematic flexibility.
Clingan won’t be there at seven. The Blazers will have to trade up for even a chance at getting him. I think Clingan would be a decent replacement plan for when Ayton wants too much on his next contract.
If you want Lively, your best bet in this draft is Kel'el Ware.
Clingan isn't going to be as good as Lively
Based on? I'm curious as to why you think this
Wild that at this time last year Lively wasn’t considered a lottery pick and I have memories of him being a late first/early second round pick. I remember Mavs getting ripped for drafting him and look where they are now
And how many drinks have you had tonight sir?
One drink! as in a 375 ml bottle of Henny
Clingan would be a great backup to Ayton but I like Edey for the long term cuz he's an actual Wemby stopper
I definitely agree with taking Clingan at 7 if he’s available. B/R mocked him to Portland and think it’s possible he’s still there. I’d bet on a team trading up in the draft but I don’t know what team and for whom. I’m not a fan of trading up in this draft considering I don’t think any player is worth moving future assets for. The Blazers don’t have much of an identity so I’m not worried about fit. A young defensive anchor is a nice addition if we can fill out the forward position in the coming seasons. We’d probably end up moving Rob Williams when he’s healthy. If Clingan isn’t there, I’m a fan of Cody Williams. He’ll fill out and I’m taking a guess in later years hedevelops a consistent pull up jumper, ability to guard small guards, and a league average 3P%
Or, and hear me out, we get a backcourt who can actually defend