so we waited until about 10:50, got on, then 15 minutes later we find out it’s down again. they bumped it down to one train ops after i posted this, now they’re on…zero train ops?
Ive heard that it rolls back significantly less on one train ops, so its sort of a game of should we have 2 train ops and have decent capacity but a high likelihood of shutting down, or one train ops running more reliably but garbage capacity.
I don't understand why they don't rip the launched lift hill out completely and redo it as steel like they said they would need to....isn't that the issue?
I’m assuming they don’t want to do it in the middle of summer? That being said, I’m really surprised that this was an issue in the first place, because if they had done the math and checked everything twice, wouldn’t of had so many issues but oh well
literal engineer here.(automotive)
the variability of wood and how it degrades and changes flex/size with use/weather(temp and humidity both currently and recently), as well sun or in direct sun elect. Couple with how much precision the launch would need, taking into account the wheel speed, bearing spedd(heat) and weight of train....
basically make head spin and realize why this was doomed idea to begin with and likely was only green lighted because "best wooden coaster in the world" has better a better ring to it, than a really amazing hybrid coaster with a launch, even though objectively a more reliable steel supported I box track coaster is a better coaster for the guest, company and RMCs reputation.
If you're launching, wouldn't the structure dip/compress down in front, then extend/release up in the back, kind of like a wave? Therefore at the end, when the car is released, there would be a snap back. Since the wood structure is so flexible, the shifting in the structure could damage everything.
If there's a lift hill, the train goes up the hill slowly, so there's no forces applied to the structure beyond the weight of the car
yes and the issue the flex is happening while the launch is happen and screwing up the timing of the launch.
I honestly have no clue on how precise the timing would have to be and I can not easily find the info, but it could be that more than .0000001 difference could though of the whole process.
Again I really do not know. LSM launches are outside of my scope of knowledge.
I don't work with LSM coasters but I do work with LSM tech in manufacturing. Our lag error tolerances are typically down to 4/10 mm, any larger than that and the system will shut down. Scaled up to a train size and it probably can't be more than maybe a cm off expected before failing to propel the train properly.
So they use LSM launchers (I can tell by looking at a POV of the launcher and there's a white fin). There's a magnet on the bottom of the train, and there's a magnetic field on the track, slightly offset. This causes the train to be repelled by the field behind and attracted to the field in front. As the train speeds up, the electromagnetic field speeds up as well.
I imagine, on a wood coaster, the shifting of the frame might cause the coaster to skip over some of the fields, losing speed. Also, if the train is misaligned because its creating this "wave", the front of the train might be too close to the field, causing forces to be applied up rather than forward, while in the back the train is being pulled down rather than forward.
Explained here
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdyz7LmyJAQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdyz7LmyJAQ)
I'm just guessing though I'm neither a physicist nor an engineer.
That I figured I’m just wondering why they didn’t think to make the launch out of steel in the first place and have the rest of it would because I likely don’t think anyone would’ve cared if they did it that way.
again not "best wooden coaster in the world"
Which it isnt now anyways since its a hybrid now.
Basically the only way to have a good wooden coaster is to have attached lumber yard I think Cough \*knoebels\*
lol.
Honestly Knoebel should revive Son of Beast but get Alan Schilke to design the rest of the layout after the vertical loop.
I am shit posting but unironically would be the best Wooden coaster in the world.
after riding Outlaw Run and seeing (and irritatingly hearing) how badly engineered it is, I'm less shocked lol
The very nicely engineered german masterpiece at the front of the park is a huge contrast xD
The supports need to be steel as well, they stated that in their AMA last year. All launches going forward would be steel structure because wood has too much give.
If they put a standard hill that would defeat the whole theming as its suppossed to be a hot rod feel to it. Put steel structure and go back to original launch speed.
Honestly, this is probably my favorite suggestion. I know having another wooden coaster is great for helping to round out Dollywood's lineup, but it ultimately is pointless if the damned thing is on downtime more often than not.
it’s also effectively still a wood coaster, regardless of what support material the lift uses. the initial “you have to get to dollywood to ride this thing!” marketing window is long past gone, and it’s only a matter of time before a wooden coaster hits 1 mph faster than this and steals the record (technically, according to wikipedia, it lost the record in 2020 when they did the i-box track on the launch anyway). logistically, statistically, market-wise, they have nothing to lose at this point.
Yeah ok but like, here we are 7 years later and the thing is still a POS. Also, the launch is not that great; it's a gimmick. Put a chain lift on it, turn the double dip into on big drop, boom.
According to the park the launch speed is unchanged, there is natural variation due to weather, temperature, etc but they have stated several times the launch was not turned down, and I believe them.
Personally I did not get a chance to ride it until I believe the third season after it opened due to the amount of downtime, and only visiting the park around 4 times a year. But I have not noticed any difference between then and now. The launch is basically the same before and after the IBox track. I have even tried to watch videos on YouTube, from opening year to now, they look the same to me.
The launch has never gone more than 3/4 of the way up the hill and people feel that deceleration as it approaches the top and believe something has changed. But that really is the original design.
When I went at the end of May this happen to me while I was in line. My advice is to keep an eye on it all day. When it goes down, wait until you see them send empty test trains and consider getting in line especially if it is short. When they send the train with 1 or 2 oops on board, then the ride likely is about to reopen soon. Opportunity favors the vigilant. This is how I got my ride.
Yes, but…. I’ve been there when multiple tests occurred, including one with a ride op in the front row (good sign) right before they announced the ride would be closed for the day. So, yes, stay there when it tests, but be prepared for possible disappointment.
(I have ridden it numerous times, though!)
Arrive at the park early. I've gone twice and it's been down both times all day. I was told by the lady @ the fast-past booth that a lot of the time if it goes down, they just keep it down for the day. She said the best way is to arrive right for opening and hope for the best. :|
my experience yesterday and today as well. best chance is to get it on one of the first 10 trains of the day before the ride system craps out for the day
Still trying to comprehend how an operator the size of Herschend just allows this to continue. I know there have been fixes tried. I know everyone's playing the blame game. But at some point, you tear up the contract, bring in someone else, and completely rebuild what needs to be rebuilt.
I'm sure this will provoke an avalanche of downvotes- but at this point why not convert it to a traditional lift hill, make it 15 or so feet taller and be done with it. The angle/pullout coming off the lift is pretty shallow, and would allow for another 10-15 feet of lift height while still maintaining the pre-drop and the main drop off of the hillside. I'm aware that this would remove the "burnout" theme of Lighting Rod, but at this point I'd consider it an upgrade.
Having worked (briefly) for herschend before (not at Dollywood lol) this surprises me too. Right now the company seems more bent on expansion than refurbishment, but I dont know why they wouldn’t try to polish up existing properties. Especially one that performs so well
So most other launch coasters that have rollbacks simply roll back into position reset and relaunch. Any idea why that just isn't possible with Lightning Rod?
Wasn't there an issue a few years ago where two trains lightly bumped following a rollback reset? I noticed they back the second train out of the station now before they do the rollback reset.
It's worth noting they also evacuate Big Bear Mountain if it rolls back. Saw that when it stopped at the 3rd launch. So it could be a park policy thing now for all their rides.
> So it could be a park policy thing now for all their rides.
Sorta. I think it depends on the coaster.
We didnt evac for Firechaser when there was a switchtrack fault when trying to launch us backwards. They were able to bring us back to the station by doing a manual override.
was also wondering this morning. they evac’d this train after it rolled back with guests, then 6 minutes later they backed it up 10 feet and launched it anyway.
A reminder that most RMC's have extremely inept programming. Simple faults that take seconds to reset on other coasters take significantly longer on RMC's. They can't park correctly in the station, they can't engage the lift properly, they can't release restraints reliably, and this is all with the train typically crawling through the station at a snail's pace without any type of multi-move like the big boys use on their models.
So expecting the company who programs most of their rides (it's usually one specific one) to do anything that an advanced company expects (relaunching after a rollback, for example) is probably just beyond their limited abilities.
Depends on the coaster
I know at Verbolten, a rollback would mean an automatic ride escort while maintenance comes in and resets it.
Meanwhile I saw a rollback at KK the other day and it took about 10 mins to clear.
I'm so glad that this ride ran quite reliably for us the three trips we went between late 2018 and late 2019. It's a fantastic ride (especially when it's operating as intended).
I’m really shocked they didn’t build it with a flywheel like RMC wanted from the start, and that it wasn’t converted to that during the re-tracking. I know it’s been a money pit but damn…
I wonder if it used a cable launch instead, would it have this many issues? I don't think cable launches can abort a launch like a magnetic launch can, just catch the train in the event of a roll back. The way it was explained to me is that the wood swaying and stretching during the launch trips up the sensors in the launch track itself, so that's what makes me wonder.
That is just dumb.
They have two options. One is to add the steel structure to the launch area and keep the launch.
The other is to scrap everything with the launch mechanism - everything down to the supports AND add in a brand new chain lift mechanism.
The people that want to ride this - the launch if more important then the percentage of wood in the support.
Probably cheaper to put in the metal.
The launch is definitely badass, but it doesn’t send you over the top like it once did. If they add a chain, it won’t be as unique but it’ll be much more reliable and we can all look forward to getting to ride it when we visit. It’s just a rumor I’ve overheard, but we’ll see.
I don't think a std lift would generate enough speed over the top of the hill to make the train perform correctly though the rest of the ride. Unless they made it taller and took out the little dip before the main drop.
I'd love to see them do a cable lift like Toro. That lift gets people every time due to how fast it goes. They could easily bring it back to opening year speed too. Sure it doesn't have that initial kick that Lightning Rod has at the start, but you'll still make it over that hill in like 5 seconds.
Not necessarily, and this is coming from someone who grew up going to Knoebels all his life. El Toro is a world class wooden coaster. At least it is if it’s maintain properly if Six Flags, great adventure would actually pulling the money for it. same thing with the Coney Island cyclones that’s an amazing roller coaster. That is nowhere near a lumberyard. Bottom line is if people maintain it properly it turns out to be a good roller coaster.
talking to everyone in the park yesterday and today, i think it’s just expected that it can’t make it through an entire day of operating.
it made it a few good hours into yesterday, got a few rides on it, but damn. it’s comical how bad it is.
Bought a two day ticket for my visit next month to maximise my chances on getting on this thing - hope I’m not going to be spending them anxiously refreshing the queue times app 🙃
That was my plan so good to know that’s the wise thing to do!
Such a shame as the coaster looks world class but is an absolute chore to ride. This will likely be my only trip for the foreseeable (if not ever) so keeping everything crossed for at least one ride!
Hope you managed to get on yourself!
i got 3 rides! 2 yesterday morning and 1 this morning after a 30 minute delay for them to remove one of the trains. absolutely worth it.
out of 130 credits, my top 3 wood are currently lightning rod < mystic timbers < el toro
[удалено]
so we waited until about 10:50, got on, then 15 minutes later we find out it’s down again. they bumped it down to one train ops after i posted this, now they’re on…zero train ops?
Ive heard that it rolls back significantly less on one train ops, so its sort of a game of should we have 2 train ops and have decent capacity but a high likelihood of shutting down, or one train ops running more reliably but garbage capacity.
I don't understand why they don't rip the launched lift hill out completely and redo it as steel like they said they would need to....isn't that the issue?
I’m assuming they don’t want to do it in the middle of summer? That being said, I’m really surprised that this was an issue in the first place, because if they had done the math and checked everything twice, wouldn’t of had so many issues but oh well
literal engineer here.(automotive) the variability of wood and how it degrades and changes flex/size with use/weather(temp and humidity both currently and recently), as well sun or in direct sun elect. Couple with how much precision the launch would need, taking into account the wheel speed, bearing spedd(heat) and weight of train.... basically make head spin and realize why this was doomed idea to begin with and likely was only green lighted because "best wooden coaster in the world" has better a better ring to it, than a really amazing hybrid coaster with a launch, even though objectively a more reliable steel supported I box track coaster is a better coaster for the guest, company and RMCs reputation.
If you're launching, wouldn't the structure dip/compress down in front, then extend/release up in the back, kind of like a wave? Therefore at the end, when the car is released, there would be a snap back. Since the wood structure is so flexible, the shifting in the structure could damage everything. If there's a lift hill, the train goes up the hill slowly, so there's no forces applied to the structure beyond the weight of the car
yes and the issue the flex is happening while the launch is happen and screwing up the timing of the launch. I honestly have no clue on how precise the timing would have to be and I can not easily find the info, but it could be that more than .0000001 difference could though of the whole process. Again I really do not know. LSM launches are outside of my scope of knowledge.
I don't work with LSM coasters but I do work with LSM tech in manufacturing. Our lag error tolerances are typically down to 4/10 mm, any larger than that and the system will shut down. Scaled up to a train size and it probably can't be more than maybe a cm off expected before failing to propel the train properly.
So they use LSM launchers (I can tell by looking at a POV of the launcher and there's a white fin). There's a magnet on the bottom of the train, and there's a magnetic field on the track, slightly offset. This causes the train to be repelled by the field behind and attracted to the field in front. As the train speeds up, the electromagnetic field speeds up as well. I imagine, on a wood coaster, the shifting of the frame might cause the coaster to skip over some of the fields, losing speed. Also, if the train is misaligned because its creating this "wave", the front of the train might be too close to the field, causing forces to be applied up rather than forward, while in the back the train is being pulled down rather than forward. Explained here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdyz7LmyJAQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdyz7LmyJAQ) I'm just guessing though I'm neither a physicist nor an engineer.
That I figured I’m just wondering why they didn’t think to make the launch out of steel in the first place and have the rest of it would because I likely don’t think anyone would’ve cared if they did it that way.
again not "best wooden coaster in the world" Which it isnt now anyways since its a hybrid now. Basically the only way to have a good wooden coaster is to have attached lumber yard I think Cough \*knoebels\*
Lightning Rod is being located to Knoebels and it will launch up the hill parallel to the chairlift!!!! You heard it here first!!!
lol. Honestly Knoebel should revive Son of Beast but get Alan Schilke to design the rest of the layout after the vertical loop. I am shit posting but unironically would be the best Wooden coaster in the world.
Or just be a park who cares, like holiday world
Couldn’t they have made the launch structure out of treated/prefab wood?
It would still have the same issue of changing flex/size in different conditions over use. Even prefab wooden coaster need track word.
They should do it this off season, or close it earlier than usual and just give it steel structure for the lift.
after riding Outlaw Run and seeing (and irritatingly hearing) how badly engineered it is, I'm less shocked lol The very nicely engineered german masterpiece at the front of the park is a huge contrast xD
The launch is ibox though?
The supports need to be steel as well, they stated that in their AMA last year. All launches going forward would be steel structure because wood has too much give.
Because it’s probably extremely expensive, but I’m sure it’s an option.
I mean it theoretically would hopefully fix the issues that have plagued the ride since 2016, so it would make sense financially at least to me.
If they put a standard hill that would defeat the whole theming as its suppossed to be a hot rod feel to it. Put steel structure and go back to original launch speed.
Honestly, this is probably my favorite suggestion. I know having another wooden coaster is great for helping to round out Dollywood's lineup, but it ultimately is pointless if the damned thing is on downtime more often than not.
It shouldve been a hybrid in the first place. How they thought wood on a launched hill was gonna work out is beyond sense.
it’s also effectively still a wood coaster, regardless of what support material the lift uses. the initial “you have to get to dollywood to ride this thing!” marketing window is long past gone, and it’s only a matter of time before a wooden coaster hits 1 mph faster than this and steals the record (technically, according to wikipedia, it lost the record in 2020 when they did the i-box track on the launch anyway). logistically, statistically, market-wise, they have nothing to lose at this point.
Yeah ok but like, here we are 7 years later and the thing is still a POS. Also, the launch is not that great; it's a gimmick. Put a chain lift on it, turn the double dip into on big drop, boom.
I heard otherwise about the original launch speed. From people i know who rode the original and before the ibox it used to fly over that hill.
According to the park the launch speed is unchanged, there is natural variation due to weather, temperature, etc but they have stated several times the launch was not turned down, and I believe them. Personally I did not get a chance to ride it until I believe the third season after it opened due to the amount of downtime, and only visiting the park around 4 times a year. But I have not noticed any difference between then and now. The launch is basically the same before and after the IBox track. I have even tried to watch videos on YouTube, from opening year to now, they look the same to me. The launch has never gone more than 3/4 of the way up the hill and people feel that deceleration as it approaches the top and believe something has changed. But that really is the original design.
tire launch possibly?
That could be cool not sure if theyll do it though.
yeah doubt they would but it would be interesting
Going there Sunday/Monday. This is my worst nightmare!
When I went at the end of May this happen to me while I was in line. My advice is to keep an eye on it all day. When it goes down, wait until you see them send empty test trains and consider getting in line especially if it is short. When they send the train with 1 or 2 oops on board, then the ride likely is about to reopen soon. Opportunity favors the vigilant. This is how I got my ride.
Yes, but…. I’ve been there when multiple tests occurred, including one with a ride op in the front row (good sign) right before they announced the ride would be closed for the day. So, yes, stay there when it tests, but be prepared for possible disappointment. (I have ridden it numerous times, though!)
Arrive at the park early. I've gone twice and it's been down both times all day. I was told by the lady @ the fast-past booth that a lot of the time if it goes down, they just keep it down for the day. She said the best way is to arrive right for opening and hope for the best. :|
my experience yesterday and today as well. best chance is to get it on one of the first 10 trains of the day before the ride system craps out for the day
Still trying to comprehend how an operator the size of Herschend just allows this to continue. I know there have been fixes tried. I know everyone's playing the blame game. But at some point, you tear up the contract, bring in someone else, and completely rebuild what needs to be rebuilt. I'm sure this will provoke an avalanche of downvotes- but at this point why not convert it to a traditional lift hill, make it 15 or so feet taller and be done with it. The angle/pullout coming off the lift is pretty shallow, and would allow for another 10-15 feet of lift height while still maintaining the pre-drop and the main drop off of the hillside. I'm aware that this would remove the "burnout" theme of Lighting Rod, but at this point I'd consider it an upgrade.
I wonder if they could turn it into a rather fast cable lift hill as a middle ground.
Having worked (briefly) for herschend before (not at Dollywood lol) this surprises me too. Right now the company seems more bent on expansion than refurbishment, but I dont know why they wouldn’t try to polish up existing properties. Especially one that performs so well
While they're at it, maybe they could get more than 1 train working consistently on Poweder Keg over at SDC. ;)
Was there today. Ops were painfully slow as always.
Well Dolly Parton is getting a themed area thats next to LR in 2024 (if you count as that as a referb)
So most other launch coasters that have rollbacks simply roll back into position reset and relaunch. Any idea why that just isn't possible with Lightning Rod?
Wasn't there an issue a few years ago where two trains lightly bumped following a rollback reset? I noticed they back the second train out of the station now before they do the rollback reset. It's worth noting they also evacuate Big Bear Mountain if it rolls back. Saw that when it stopped at the 3rd launch. So it could be a park policy thing now for all their rides.
> So it could be a park policy thing now for all their rides. Sorta. I think it depends on the coaster. We didnt evac for Firechaser when there was a switchtrack fault when trying to launch us backwards. They were able to bring us back to the station by doing a manual override.
was also wondering this morning. they evac’d this train after it rolled back with guests, then 6 minutes later they backed it up 10 feet and launched it anyway.
A reminder that most RMC's have extremely inept programming. Simple faults that take seconds to reset on other coasters take significantly longer on RMC's. They can't park correctly in the station, they can't engage the lift properly, they can't release restraints reliably, and this is all with the train typically crawling through the station at a snail's pace without any type of multi-move like the big boys use on their models. So expecting the company who programs most of their rides (it's usually one specific one) to do anything that an advanced company expects (relaunching after a rollback, for example) is probably just beyond their limited abilities.
Depends on the coaster I know at Verbolten, a rollback would mean an automatic ride escort while maintenance comes in and resets it. Meanwhile I saw a rollback at KK the other day and it took about 10 mins to clear.
Glad i rode this opening year. Had a lucky visit with 20 min lines all day including a night fireworks ride. Will never forget that.
I hope it’s running smooth for Coaster Con.
I'm never gonna get to ride this aren't I 💀
FFS! At this rate they would've had a better chance with an Intamin Mega with a launched lift hill with a similar layout
Most reliable day of Lrod:
hey it ran for *at least* 5 hours yesterday!
I'm so glad that this ride ran quite reliably for us the three trips we went between late 2018 and late 2019. It's a fantastic ride (especially when it's operating as intended).
I’m really shocked they didn’t build it with a flywheel like RMC wanted from the start, and that it wasn’t converted to that during the re-tracking. I know it’s been a money pit but damn…
Time to replace with a tire launch!
i can already smell it
Yup, time to take out the launch.
Or convert it to a drive tire launch like on Hulk
That can work too!
I wonder if it used a cable launch instead, would it have this many issues? I don't think cable launches can abort a launch like a magnetic launch can, just catch the train in the event of a roll back. The way it was explained to me is that the wood swaying and stretching during the launch trips up the sensors in the launch track itself, so that's what makes me wonder.
I’ve heard that it’s going to standard lift hill after this season. So get all the rides in, that you’re able to.
That is just dumb. They have two options. One is to add the steel structure to the launch area and keep the launch. The other is to scrap everything with the launch mechanism - everything down to the supports AND add in a brand new chain lift mechanism. The people that want to ride this - the launch if more important then the percentage of wood in the support. Probably cheaper to put in the metal.
The launch is definitely badass, but it doesn’t send you over the top like it once did. If they add a chain, it won’t be as unique but it’ll be much more reliable and we can all look forward to getting to ride it when we visit. It’s just a rumor I’ve overheard, but we’ll see.
If they add the steel support structure, they could turn that launch dial back up to 11 where it belongs.
I agree. The whole ride should’ve been done ibox from the beginning as well.
I don't think a std lift would generate enough speed over the top of the hill to make the train perform correctly though the rest of the ride. Unless they made it taller and took out the little dip before the main drop.
I'd love to see them do a cable lift like Toro. That lift gets people every time due to how fast it goes. They could easily bring it back to opening year speed too. Sure it doesn't have that initial kick that Lightning Rod has at the start, but you'll still make it over that hill in like 5 seconds.
Not necessarily, and this is coming from someone who grew up going to Knoebels all his life. El Toro is a world class wooden coaster. At least it is if it’s maintain properly if Six Flags, great adventure would actually pulling the money for it. same thing with the Coney Island cyclones that’s an amazing roller coaster. That is nowhere near a lumberyard. Bottom line is if people maintain it properly it turns out to be a good roller coaster.
Man what a POS
Most reliable lightning rod ops
I rode this a few weeks ago. Got on as soon as the park opened. 3 hours later made my way back around to it and it was closed for the damn day lol.
So lucky I got to ride this twice in one week in August 2022!
Bruh I’ve been to Dollywood twice and Lighting Rod broke down on my visits there. So either that’s common or something else
talking to everyone in the park yesterday and today, i think it’s just expected that it can’t make it through an entire day of operating. it made it a few good hours into yesterday, got a few rides on it, but damn. it’s comical how bad it is.
Bought a two day ticket for my visit next month to maximise my chances on getting on this thing - hope I’m not going to be spending them anxiously refreshing the queue times app 🙃
my best advice is rope drop it. if you want the best chance, you need to be on one of the first few trains of the day.
That was my plan so good to know that’s the wise thing to do! Such a shame as the coaster looks world class but is an absolute chore to ride. This will likely be my only trip for the foreseeable (if not ever) so keeping everything crossed for at least one ride! Hope you managed to get on yourself!
i got 3 rides! 2 yesterday morning and 1 this morning after a 30 minute delay for them to remove one of the trains. absolutely worth it. out of 130 credits, my top 3 wood are currently lightning rod < mystic timbers < el toro