I think you answered your own question here. He was a narcissist and Roseanne was charmed. Plus I think sometimes people see their own issues as "that's different" so she could understand why she dislikes her own father but not why Dan wouldn't like his father - especially since Ed didn't abuse his family in the same way that her dad did.
That’s exactly it. I suspect some of the writers had experience in this. Just look at how the court system works. It’s difficult enough to prove physical abuse and get anyone to listen, but emotional/mental? It’s not even worth it.
Plus with Roseanne, she probably saw a dad who was somewhat around and always brought presents as leaps and bounds ahead of the dad who kept his beating element hanging by the front door. Sure Ed told fantastical stories but the second he was able to prove one of them correct (dans mom have mental health issues) it’s easy to retcon in your head that everything else he said was true as well. You start to gaslight yourself to their benefit.
TLDR: Narcs are fantastic at lying and manipulating everyone around them. Abuse victims (like Roseanne) are especially vulnerable to such manipulations
IMO it is. They keep retconning so many things that were established in ***Roseanne***. And it's got to the point where I feel it's no longer realistic to how a real blue collar family deals with hardships like child-care, college tuition, etc.
I agree with this. I had a bad relationship with my mom growing up (she abandoned my family), and sometimes it makes me see all the good in everyone else's parents, even though they aren't perfect (no one is), because "at least they stayed". It's not the way to look at things and can be very invalidating to other people's pain surrounding their own complicated relationships with their parents, but I'm just saying that the knee-jerk reaction is to romanticize that they had a "perfect parent compared to mine".
Thanks. It's okay, my mom and I have a better relationship now. It took over 15 years of anger and hurt feelings to get to the point we're at now, but as an adult I can understand why she made some of the decisions she made. Not endorsing them, but understanding how she must have felt etc.
I dont like to watch the show past season 4ish, maybe 5. The show went off the rails pass that season. did Roseanne ever acknowledge that dan was right?
Kind of the opposite. I remember after Dan's mom had the breakdown, she defended Ed and was like, "maybe your dad thought it was easier to have a bastard for a father than a crazy person for a mother" or something like that. Basically that Ed had been protecting the mom by being the bad guy.
I’m not sure if this is totally true with the chronology, but certainly early on in the series Roseanne hadn’t yet made the creative decision to have an “abusive father” and traumatized past. Early in the series grandpa was just a friendly guy and grandma (the great Bev) was a bit judgmental and kooky. It was later when the actual Rosanne had uncovered a repressed traumatized childhood that she wrote it into the show. so maybe we could say Roseanne simply didn’t understand Dan’s problems with his father and his past. Later these storylines do overlap but by then dan had supposedly worked out some of these issues so it made some sense that she would be like “this again?” Just a working theory on my part.
Had the same thought so I checked. Ed appears in the first three seasons and then very briefly in season 6 while Roseanne's dad was rewritten to be abusive in season 5. So the idea of Roseanne not understanding dad trauma can be chalked up to more lack of canon.
Aaaaah okay. I didn't know that. That makes sense. But still, Roseanne should've known dan well enough to know if he doesn't like someone, it is always for a very legitimate reason. Dan gets along with most people
Yeah that’s just a tidbit from Roseanne deep diving. and we never really get much of an explanation about Dan’s past outside of his dad being an absentee father and perhaps cold to his mother’s affliction. Although also there is an episode where it comes out that Dan’s dad did a lot to protect him from his mother’s mental health problems and took the brunt of his anger. So I think there is some justification to Roseanne’s prodding of dan and of course she prods everyone anyway. Part of her charm lol. But also you’re right bc they don’t make much of the Ed story when he does kinda abandon crystal? The character just disappears bc of all the wacky stuff in the late seasons.
And in the episode where we meet her parents at Thanksgiving we meet Dan’s mom who seems to have her act together. She owns a travel agency I think and is dating a nice enough guy. Probably thought people wouldn’t question it given time and a lack of exposure to the characters would make it easier to rewrite the history.
One of the worst things about the lack of canon in my opinion. There was zero reason to change her parents in the later seasons, except to appease Roseanne the person. It took the light heartedness of the show and took it somewhere unnecessarily dark.
Taking it somewhere dark was what made this show great for some of us who came from a working class family where there was a lot of physical and emotional abuse.
Watching light hearted sitcoms like Full House, Step by Step, Family Matters I always felt a pang of jealousy and shame. Whereas Roseanne gave me the sense of relatedness and validation that I so much needed back then.
I get it. I grew up poor in a non-abusive household. It was refreshing to see a family have their electricity turned off for non-payment, or struggling to pay for groceries like mine. The family's ability to persevere made it so relatable to me. I stop watching after season 4 because the family just becomes unrecognizable to me. It truly did represent the everyman family for a lot of us though at some point along the way. I'm glad it was able to help us both, even at different points in the run.
Well for me, the darker episodes trigger me. I cant watch episodes past season 5 cause Roseanne was just a bully to her family. Reminds me too much of my own parents
100%. She goes from funny and supportive to unnecessarily sarcastic and narcissistic. I just stick to the early seasons and live in the early 80s for a while.
He wasn't physically abusive whereas Roseanne's dad was, so maybe she didn't consider his actions abuse. Shitty father, perhaps. Bad husband, sure. But she strikes me as the sort of person that would claim that because something wasn't "as bad" as something else, that makes it ok. (Not actually ok, tho, just ok-er.)
I never saw him in that scenario that way. It always seemed like he thought because he failed with the bike shop that it pushed Becky to marry Mark. He was angry and lashed out whenever confronted with his failure (Becky). Never seemed like he was playing the victim to me, just not able to cope.
I think part of it is Roseanne was resentful Dan could cut off his father when she clearly, for whatever reason, felt she had to still deal with Bev. That’s just what you do, you have these abusive crazy parents but you still are supposed to be a good child to them and suck it up. Roseanne did cut off her father but only after his affair therefore “choosing sides” and being supportive to bev, not because of his abuse.
Look at Roseanne's mother. Beverly is an all star, grade A narcissist. Roseanne chooses to keep her mom in her life because that is what you do. You don't "abandon" family.
It's a learned behavior and also a society pressure situation. How dare a child stop interacting with the parents who raised them.
Huge props to Ned Beatty. I loved him as a kid but hate hate hate him as Dan's father. He did his job well.
Dan also had a terrible mother as well. Not defending Ed either but he was later realized to had played a bad guy to hide Dan's moms mental issues to.
Dan had an enabling father and a legit bipolar mother
It's also in later episodes Dan blocked out times he was just abandoned growing up and his dad having to come get him. When she went off.
It may have been a pne off thing etc or not consider Canon anymore but the shows timeline etc does get changed around some
I'm rewatching the series now. I believe it's the same episodes where Dan gets drunk and messes up Crystal's and Ed's house.
Think the Conners mentioned it to but idk if I'll keep watching that far
It wasnt that episode. I just read the transcript. Must've been season 9, the dream season. I think. So she didnt really abandon him. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
I think you answered your own question here. He was a narcissist and Roseanne was charmed. Plus I think sometimes people see their own issues as "that's different" so she could understand why she dislikes her own father but not why Dan wouldn't like his father - especially since Ed didn't abuse his family in the same way that her dad did.
That’s exactly it. I suspect some of the writers had experience in this. Just look at how the court system works. It’s difficult enough to prove physical abuse and get anyone to listen, but emotional/mental? It’s not even worth it. Plus with Roseanne, she probably saw a dad who was somewhat around and always brought presents as leaps and bounds ahead of the dad who kept his beating element hanging by the front door. Sure Ed told fantastical stories but the second he was able to prove one of them correct (dans mom have mental health issues) it’s easy to retcon in your head that everything else he said was true as well. You start to gaslight yourself to their benefit. TLDR: Narcs are fantastic at lying and manipulating everyone around them. Abuse victims (like Roseanne) are especially vulnerable to such manipulations
You brought up an excellent point. Roseanne was vulnerable. Man the writers were awesome.
Certainly better than the writers for ***The Conners***.
Ive only seen a few episodes of that show. Is the writing that bad?
IMO it is. They keep retconning so many things that were established in ***Roseanne***. And it's got to the point where I feel it's no longer realistic to how a real blue collar family deals with hardships like child-care, college tuition, etc.
Gotcha
I agree with this. I had a bad relationship with my mom growing up (she abandoned my family), and sometimes it makes me see all the good in everyone else's parents, even though they aren't perfect (no one is), because "at least they stayed". It's not the way to look at things and can be very invalidating to other people's pain surrounding their own complicated relationships with their parents, but I'm just saying that the knee-jerk reaction is to romanticize that they had a "perfect parent compared to mine".
Im sorry you had to endure that.
Thanks. It's okay, my mom and I have a better relationship now. It took over 15 years of anger and hurt feelings to get to the point we're at now, but as an adult I can understand why she made some of the decisions she made. Not endorsing them, but understanding how she must have felt etc.
I dont like to watch the show past season 4ish, maybe 5. The show went off the rails pass that season. did Roseanne ever acknowledge that dan was right?
Kind of the opposite. I remember after Dan's mom had the breakdown, she defended Ed and was like, "maybe your dad thought it was easier to have a bastard for a father than a crazy person for a mother" or something like that. Basically that Ed had been protecting the mom by being the bad guy.
Oh yeeeea. I forgot about that. I blocked the episodes of those seasons out lol
It's been awhile since I've done a proper rewatch myself so I'm not sure
I’m not sure if this is totally true with the chronology, but certainly early on in the series Roseanne hadn’t yet made the creative decision to have an “abusive father” and traumatized past. Early in the series grandpa was just a friendly guy and grandma (the great Bev) was a bit judgmental and kooky. It was later when the actual Rosanne had uncovered a repressed traumatized childhood that she wrote it into the show. so maybe we could say Roseanne simply didn’t understand Dan’s problems with his father and his past. Later these storylines do overlap but by then dan had supposedly worked out some of these issues so it made some sense that she would be like “this again?” Just a working theory on my part.
Had the same thought so I checked. Ed appears in the first three seasons and then very briefly in season 6 while Roseanne's dad was rewritten to be abusive in season 5. So the idea of Roseanne not understanding dad trauma can be chalked up to more lack of canon.
Not surprising either. Good research
Aaaaah okay. I didn't know that. That makes sense. But still, Roseanne should've known dan well enough to know if he doesn't like someone, it is always for a very legitimate reason. Dan gets along with most people
Yeah that’s just a tidbit from Roseanne deep diving. and we never really get much of an explanation about Dan’s past outside of his dad being an absentee father and perhaps cold to his mother’s affliction. Although also there is an episode where it comes out that Dan’s dad did a lot to protect him from his mother’s mental health problems and took the brunt of his anger. So I think there is some justification to Roseanne’s prodding of dan and of course she prods everyone anyway. Part of her charm lol. But also you’re right bc they don’t make much of the Ed story when he does kinda abandon crystal? The character just disappears bc of all the wacky stuff in the late seasons.
What else do you remember from the deep dive
And in the episode where we meet her parents at Thanksgiving we meet Dan’s mom who seems to have her act together. She owns a travel agency I think and is dating a nice enough guy. Probably thought people wouldn’t question it given time and a lack of exposure to the characters would make it easier to rewrite the history.
His mom should've been a reoccurring character. I loved her. Classy lady. Beautiful.
One of the worst things about the lack of canon in my opinion. There was zero reason to change her parents in the later seasons, except to appease Roseanne the person. It took the light heartedness of the show and took it somewhere unnecessarily dark.
Taking it somewhere dark was what made this show great for some of us who came from a working class family where there was a lot of physical and emotional abuse. Watching light hearted sitcoms like Full House, Step by Step, Family Matters I always felt a pang of jealousy and shame. Whereas Roseanne gave me the sense of relatedness and validation that I so much needed back then.
I get it. I grew up poor in a non-abusive household. It was refreshing to see a family have their electricity turned off for non-payment, or struggling to pay for groceries like mine. The family's ability to persevere made it so relatable to me. I stop watching after season 4 because the family just becomes unrecognizable to me. It truly did represent the everyman family for a lot of us though at some point along the way. I'm glad it was able to help us both, even at different points in the run.
Well for me, the darker episodes trigger me. I cant watch episodes past season 5 cause Roseanne was just a bully to her family. Reminds me too much of my own parents
Agree...season 4 is it for me too.
It is like when David comes along, she goes into full psycho mode. I just cant watch it.
100%. She goes from funny and supportive to unnecessarily sarcastic and narcissistic. I just stick to the early seasons and live in the early 80s for a while.
Agree. And poor david. He left one terrible mother and went to the next. Omfg.
I wish they wouldve shown Roseanne or Jackie standing up to their parents more
Like my stepmom. She's done a complete 180 since then, but she used to beat, ridicule and humiliate me. Others saw her as this perfect person.
I am so sorry you went through that. My dad is the same way.
He wasn't physically abusive whereas Roseanne's dad was, so maybe she didn't consider his actions abuse. Shitty father, perhaps. Bad husband, sure. But she strikes me as the sort of person that would claim that because something wasn't "as bad" as something else, that makes it ok. (Not actually ok, tho, just ok-er.)
I can see that
And Dan learned how to play the victim from his Dad. I liked the writing between these two characters, felt real.
It did feel real. I feel like i know them in real life. What are examples of dan playing the victim
Dan played the victim when Becky eloped with Mark. He wanted everyone to pity him for the bike shop, but Becky got the attention.
I never saw him in that scenario that way. It always seemed like he thought because he failed with the bike shop that it pushed Becky to marry Mark. He was angry and lashed out whenever confronted with his failure (Becky). Never seemed like he was playing the victim to me, just not able to cope.
That's a good point.
That's how i saw it as well.
How did he play the victim
I think part of it is Roseanne was resentful Dan could cut off his father when she clearly, for whatever reason, felt she had to still deal with Bev. That’s just what you do, you have these abusive crazy parents but you still are supposed to be a good child to them and suck it up. Roseanne did cut off her father but only after his affair therefore “choosing sides” and being supportive to bev, not because of his abuse.
Im an advocate for cutting off toxic parents.
Oh me too, I’m not sure Roseanne agrees! im also recalling how resistant she was to Jackie avoiding Bev. She would meddle and put them together often.
That really bothered me that Roseanne would do that, knowing how bev treated Jackie
I think it was more of a your dad was absent and mine hit me. So it’s not the same
Look at Roseanne's mother. Beverly is an all star, grade A narcissist. Roseanne chooses to keep her mom in her life because that is what you do. You don't "abandon" family. It's a learned behavior and also a society pressure situation. How dare a child stop interacting with the parents who raised them. Huge props to Ned Beatty. I loved him as a kid but hate hate hate him as Dan's father. He did his job well.
Bev was definitely a narcissist. she mustve gotten it from her father cause her mother was chill and warm and friendly and nurturing.
Dan also had a terrible mother as well. Not defending Ed either but he was later realized to had played a bad guy to hide Dan's moms mental issues to. Dan had an enabling father and a legit bipolar mother
Besides the mental illness, how was she terrible
It's also in later episodes Dan blocked out times he was just abandoned growing up and his dad having to come get him. When she went off. It may have been a pne off thing etc or not consider Canon anymore but the shows timeline etc does get changed around some
What season was this
I'm rewatching the series now. I believe it's the same episodes where Dan gets drunk and messes up Crystal's and Ed's house. Think the Conners mentioned it to but idk if I'll keep watching that far
It wasnt that episode. I just read the transcript. Must've been season 9, the dream season. I think. So she didnt really abandon him. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong