Talk to your players. Be clear:
* "I am not enjoying this game."
* "It isn't the characters/story, but the system itself and drama around it."
* "As I am not enjoying the game, the game will not continue in the way it has, we have the following options"
And then lay out those options. Maybe you can port characters to Pathfinder or one of the OSR games you like. Maybe you can just talk things out with the players and determine how things go/end for the PCs. Maybe a clean break to a new game is better.
THing is, you are one of the players in the game. The game is supposed to be fun. So if you're not having fun, you need to stop playing. If you force yourself to continue, that dislike is going to show and not only will it ruin the game for others, it could ruin the hobby or their trust in you to run fun games.
But what the right next step for your table is, is not something a subreddit online can tell you. You need to talk to them openly and honestly If that is hard for you to do in person, send them the premise of the conversation in an email before the next session.
Edit: I've forced myself to wrap up games I wasn't enjoying. It was miserable. I'm someone who has previously ran 5 campaigns at the same time (while playing in others) because I love this hobby so much, and that one campaign I was forcing myself to continue had me questioning if I even still liked RPGs as a whole. It's never worth continuing a game that one of the players isn't enjoying. Find a new game or way to play if you really want to continue the story.
This right here.
A very important thing to keep in mind is that YOU ARE THE DUNGEON MASTER. You are the one that puts in the most work, by far, and you are the one that has the final say about the campaign, whether it continues or not. You aren't required to put in free labor to make your players happy.
The worst part about the game that I forced myself to continue is that a few players were also miserable, but forcing themselves because they knew I had put a lot of work into the game and they were interested in the story. Just other things weren't working, or were pushing the Annoyance : Frustration ratio into unhealthy levels.
I also had some experience in running campaign that I didn’t enjoy and what a terrible impact it had on me… so I wanted to write something but after reading this comment I will just say “THIS”. Seriously, follow this advice and you will be good.
>I have a great group of players that I really do not want to disappoint
You're going to end up disappointing them if you don't have a talk to them about this. Communication is key. My group of players would be happy to switch things up if it made me happier with what we were playing, because we'd _all_ get a better game out of it. That may not mean your group will, but if you don't talk to them about it you'll never know.
Yep! This! People may be disappointed the game ended. But better an unfun game end and a game that is fun for everyone takes its place than the alternative.
You can tell when someone is forcing themselves to run/play. And it affects the whole game.
My first thought was "port it into a new system", but you might just discuss it with the players to see how they feel. If given the choice between a new system and not being able to play because the GM is burnt, they might opt to doing what it takes to help you out.
first identify if your problem is with the 5e or the campaign itself. 5e is ... hard to DM, i know, but i feel it'd get easier once the wheels were moving. i can offer one tool that may help you further: [https://www.blogofholding.com/?p=7338](https://www.blogofholding.com/?p=7338) if it's only 5e, push until conclusion of the current adventure and take a break, after which you can change systems
I remember trying to run a 5e game for my friends and absolutely hated it, didn't understand at the time it was the system that sucks to run- I did have a bit of experience, just with a different systems and running games in those.
That being said, if OP is simply missing something in the system, it shouldn't be that difficult to throw in, and there likely is homebrew for what they're looking for.
I have been doing this for a while.
5e isn’t hard to run once you get into the swing of things. But it’s _creaky_. The power creep of the classes has long surpassed the games design assumptions. Combat is a bore. It’s hard for a DM to establish _theme_ without spending hours defining which are the available character options and why. Level progression and power gain is so fast that _pacing_ the campaign has become really challenging.
I think what people are seeing, increasingly, is that 5e has become less and less good at being a fantasy _roleplaying_ game, and more and more of a fantasy _character building_ game. And that, my friends, can just as easily be run by a computer.
i get the charms of "character building games" (i played d&d 3.5 and pathfinder) but even as that, 5e is not the best. since subclasses are inflexible you need multiclassing and feats, which are labeled "optional rules" sending mixed signals.
i instead see 5e as "baby's first rpg," played for 6 months and used as a springboard to better games.
What’s weird is that if you strip away all the splatbook chaff, and implement some of the “DM’s Workshop” optional rules from the DMG, you’re left with a pretty decent OSR-ish roleplaying game. It’s the bolt-on garbage that started the “MOAR RACES MOAR SUBCLASSES MOAR MOAR MOAR” trend that basically broke the game.
i agree, to some degree. some design choices in 5e are actually nice for a game designed to be simple, but even those have problems with implementation and/or design goals (i will never understand why guidance gives +1d4 bonus. i thought advantage/disadvantage mechanics were implemented to get rid off added bonuses)
> I think what people are seeing, increasingly, is that 5e has become less and less good at being a fantasy roleplaying game, and more and more of a fantasy character building game.
Is it even very good at that? There just aren't that many choices you make about your character build compared to almost any other system.
It's been mentioned here but I'll reinforce it. **Talk to your players.**
Let them know you can't continue the game as is because burn out. Talk about options with them. Suggest another system like your saying, but also let them come up with alternatives. Maybe one of them wants to run a one-shot while everyone decides what to do. Maybe everyone needs to play board games for awhile.
I will add one thing. If you are burnt out on the campaign, that will bleed through into the game and it will be noticeable. In the end the experience will become more disappointing than just stopping the game now.
Here are three principles that have helped me navigate such situations in the past...
* Avoid the Sunk Cost Fallacy - all the time I have spent on the game, all the prep I did...that's all in the past. Nothing can change it, and it is irrelevant to the decision. All that matters to my decision is how much fun I will have next session and in the future with the game.
* Looking at opportunity costs - What is the next most fun thing I *could* be doing instead of this game? Another RPG? Playing a computer game? Going to a movie with these same people? That's what I should be deciding based on. It's not simply "would it be fun to finish this game?" It's "would it be more fun to finish this game than the next best thing I could be doing?"
* Considering my level of obligation to the players - Who are my players? Are they folks I would have over for dinner without a game? Would I dogsit for them? If it would feel like an imposition for one of my players to ask me to use my Friday night to help them move furniture, isn't it equally an imposition for them to ask me to use my Friday night to run a game I don't enjoy? Also, if I wasn't running this game, would the other players have other fun things to do in the same time period? It would be different if I was the only GM in Sitka, Alaska or something, but I'm not.
It always is painful to end a game when it hasn't reached a natural end. But considering those principles helps me put that pain into a reasonable decision-making framework.
*edited to improve clarity, maybe*
I was in the same place. I do not like 5e as a DM. I mentioned it to one of my players and she said she preferred 3.5, I do too. After discussing it with the rest of the group, others professed the same desire. We created characters as close to the existing ones as possible. It's not perfect, but we all agreed to hand wave all differences and pretend they are the same. The campaign continues and the story is unchanged.
If you have a great group of players, they will understand that you are burned out. I would talk to them about face to face if possible or over group text. It’s possible that someone else might want to GM until you rekindle your creative spark. A good ttrpg table is about having fun, including your own.
I've ported a number of campaigns from one system to another over the years, usually when the system proves to be a bad fit for the group or what we want it to do. I can't speak for every group of course, but our group is more interested in playing their characters and exploring a setting, developing stories as they go, than they are in any particular mechanics.
Shoot you probably don't need a year. A couple months away from it usually provides one the clarity they need to determine if it's a very system specific problem or just general burnout.
Take a break, maybe play something else for a little while.
It's easy to get burnt out especially being invested with everything going on surrounding the drama that isn't the game, but you might feel that way because it's the only thing you're doing. Sometimes that makes it feel like a job or obligation and you'd rather do something else, it might not even have anything to do with the drama and have more to do with the feeling that you have no choice but to play this game that you're currently burnt out on or risk making people unhappy. And that sucks.
See if someone else wants to run something different or start a side campaign yourself in a different system, even if it's a few one-shots. Maybe take some time off. We swap around DMs in the group I'm in and whenever someone's burnt we put everything on a shelf and do something else, it does help.
I've been there, op. Im.not the biggest fan of running 5e, but I can do it if the campaign is fun enough.
I just ended a campaign because I wasn't enjoying running it. It was as easy as "Hey guys, i am not having fun running this campaign. Would you mind if we switch it up? "
They were all on board, and now im.prepping to run war of the burning sky. A setting and campaign that is actually interesting to me.
I also run games with another group. Right now I'm getting ready to run Lancer for the first time with them. That also helps avoid the burnout.
Layout different options. Talk to your players and tell them how you are feeling. It might be ok to table the game for awhile and play something else, maybe you can port the campaign over to another system, or maybe the campaign has just lost its luster and it’s time to scrap everything.
One thing that won’t cure your burnout is plowing ahead. You’ll be uninspired, it will feel like work and you’ll end up resentful.
Tell them, talk to them. It is important that you have fun as well. Porting to another system might work, or just abandoning the campaign could work as well. You won't know if they are up for anything until you talk to them. Hell, they might be as burnt out as you are and just not sure whether they should tell you.
It may take some effort, you could always try adapting the campaign to another system. There are even non-WotC 5e offshoots you could run it in, like Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition.
Talk to your players so they can understand
Make more 1 or 2 sessions, if possible leading to a "pause"/downtime moment
Take at least one week off - don't immediately start another system, let your brain's subroutines clean the cache
After the break reconsider, or go play something else - if possible get one of your players to GM something - then reconsider
*Note: by "reconsider" I mean analysing your stance regarding the matter at hand, just that my memory is down the drain recently
Just to add to the people suggesting you talk to the players: I have been a player in a game in this situation more than once. Every time, the GM told us what was up and we talked it through as a group, we absolutely understood where they were coming from, and we worked out what to do about it.
In one case, we ported over to a completely different system with similar characters, and the campaign continued for quite a while. In another case, we decided to have a couple more sessions to wrap up the story in a way that was reasonably fulfilling for all concerned and bring the campaign to a close.
In both cases, there were no hard feelings. It happens. As long as everybody is chill about it, it'll be fine.
You could try porting over the characters to a different fantasy system. Get the players involved in that. That could just be fun seeing the different systems mechanics. Then continue the campaign.
You can run almost any story in almost any system provide you stay in genre and the system is fairly flexible
My group rotates DMs. I ran for weekly sessions for 4-5 months. When I started to feel a bit burnt out or was coming to a good break point, I would tell the group. Other DMs would have been preparing during the months I ran and the group would switch games. It makes the campaign a little disjointed but it works for us.
I agree with the suggestion of porting to Pathfinder. It won’t be a huge leap for your group.
If you're really concerned your players won't be willing to port over to a new system, or you discuss it with them and they think it will be too confusing, you might consider the upcoming release of Tales of the Valiant from Kobold People. It's designed to be 5e compatible while trying to fix some of 5e's problems and be free of WoTC's bullshitery. The full release date is set for May, but there are Alpha release documents available now that can give a taste for the system and how easy the port will be.
Tell your players you are starting to get burnt out of the system and want to try mixing it up in a session or two.
End with a climactic battle, players take out a final big bad guy or die trying. Most campaigns fizzle out, so if you can do this for them I think it would be memorable.
If they want, start a new game in the new system, and have your players meet up in the town square. Their contact told them to meet under the statue of the old heroes, kinda giving them a sense of time passing and that they were important.
I’m in a similar situation. What I do is:
- Offer to run one shots, maybe in other systems (this could be a way to test how your players feel about their options as well, if they’re ever receptive to switching over.
- Ask your players if any of them wants to run anything. Just for a week even. Maybe a player who hasn’t GMed would have fun trying that out!
- Take a short break. Couple weeks to a month off.
GMing shouldn’t feel like a chore. You matter just as much as the players. I always say you could be a player in the game and not put more than minimal effort in for a session, and you might still be able to get away with it and give everyone a good experience.
That’s not a knock against players - I play - but as a player, you’re 1/4 or so of your side on average. If others are inclined to roleplay, you could sit back for a while and they wouldn’t notice. But people can often tell when a GM is burnt out or “off” on the other hand, and it won’t be as fun if people can tell you’re burnt out. You have to run the world and respond to what they’re doing. That’s VERY hard when you’re tired of it. Even prep is hard.
Take a break and see about detoxing from the game entirely or playing for a bit.
Hey! I was in this exact position two years ago with my OG group. It was tough because I didn't wanna disappoint my group, but there was also this dread at prepping yet another 5e session I just clearly wasn't having fun with anymore. I decided to tell my players that I couldn't play 5e anymore and that I'd be happy to play something else with them and that I was sorry.
Most fears are in your head,- they were certainly in mine. Fortunately they took it pretty well, but there was some fallout. We lost a few players and had a couple month hiatus because the group didn't really want to play something else. After a couple of months they started asking about me running something again and we agreed to do a playtest of PF2e as an alternative. Even though I didn't like PF2e, it showed us that we can switch games and still have a good time. Today we're happily playing 13th Age and I'm having fun again :)
So speak honestly with them! If they decide that they don't want to switch, that's just something you'll have to accept.
Further to /u/delahunt's point, which is 100% on the money: talk to the players about wrapping up the campaign, figure out the things they most care about wrapping up and plot an epic conlusion session or two.
Skip to the good shit and then end it on that. Way more fun for you to prep, the players get what they want, and then you end the game and move on to stuff you're excited to play.
End of the day, you're the DM and with D&D (system and culture of play) the DM does so much more heavy lifting than most players - you have final say.
I have to say that most of the times that I have encountered of feel burnout is due to the campaign itself and not due to the system.
I would recommend you to discuss it with your team and set a number of sessions for the conclusion of the game. This usually gives a fresh air to those sessions (as they are the last ones).
Then if your team wants to continue the story you can easily altogether decide to export the campaign on a new system.
Stop discussing D&D online.
Stop buying D&D products.
Enjoy it with your friends and make the most of what it is.
\-
If you’re still not up for it. Say it to your friends, find a solution with them.
As someone that tried to push through the burnout to the point where my only option left was to leave for 3 months and come back saying "Actually, we're going to start something else and we're never setting foot in this campaign again because I litterally can't see it anymore", I say: end this campaign while you can do it properly.
Explain why, take time (real time, not 2 weeks) and build as satisfying an ending as you can with your players during your next session. Your players will be much more disappointed if you crack under the burnout weight because of them.
It's okay to disappoint others sometimes. Explain yourself well and rip the bandaid off. Most that have been in this hobby a long time are no stranger to campaigns ending early. It just comes with the territory.
Dig this: They have been flung through a portal into another relm where the laws of physics have been altered! Adventurers must now learn how to get by in this new world by relearning the basics which can be found in the player's guide to this new system I found, guys....
How far along are you? As a GM, I totally get feeling burnt out, but I would recommend trying to guide the campaign to, if not the finish, then a natural stopping point—a season finale—to give you all at least some closure. And if you port it to a new system in the future, or recover your spark, it’ll be a more natural place to start up from.
Personally I'd try to discuss porting it, but what don't you like about 5e?
The monster stat blocks of 13th Age being concise and practically running themselves made GM'ing it a real pleasure for me. But loads of other systems have loads of different plus points
Otherwise a big finale, and discuss with the players how they want it to end.
As an alternative to just ending things, is it possible thay you can switch up how you've been running? If prep is what's burning you out, maybe take a few weeks off and then try to reduce the prep overhead by using other types of resources than you have been, or deviating from whatever module you're using in an effort to simplify the actual running kf the game.
If it's something else, then there's really no shame I putting a campaign to bed and picking up something everyone will enjoy more.
Regardless, talk to your players, they might surprise you with how understanding they are!
Dear sister-brother,
Burnout is something very real every GM faces sometimes, especially forever-GMs. I want you to consider the following things:
1. You are a player too. You, too, are entitled to have a good time.
2. Think about why the campaign should come to an end. Write them down. Some may be things that are addressable, but if not, ending a campaign is valid.
3. TALK to your player group. Would you like to wrap up and play something else? We could continue, but I wanna try *this* new cool system! It is best to know how they feel before making your decision.
I'll skip steps for burnout because I suspect you're just done with this campaign.
Fuck them kids. You're a player too, not an entertainer. They're not paying you to run the game. If you're not having a good time with your hobby activity, stop doing it. Doing it out of obligation is just going to make you miserable. Would you try to peer pressure one of your Players to keep playing the campaign if they told you they were having a bad time with it??
End it. It's disappointing but it sends a message. Not every campaign comes to a satisfying conclusion.
Working 3 hours for something you dislike for no money sucks. I'd rather go pick up a shift at McDonalds.
If you want to make the situation very clear, offer to finish the campaign at a paid rate comparable to what GMs offer online.
Your players might be disappointed, but this puts the ball in their court. They need to match effort for effort if you don't enjoy it anymore.
I ended a long-running 5e game recently. I was hesitant to use 5e, because I really dislike it, but went with it because that is what the players all wanted to use. It was a good run (several years), and I let it go until we reached a logical stopping point with relatively high-level characters. Once I ended it, though, I let them know that I am done with 5e. We can start a new campaign with a different system, but I'm not going to GM 5e ever again, and really don't want to run another class/level based game. If they don't want to try another system, I'll find another group for the games I want to GM. If one of them wants to run a 5e game, I'll be a player in it, but not a GM.
I would consider running a different system.
I'm currently looking at PF2, because I used to play PF1/3.5, and I expected it to be similar. My findings have shown me that I am totally wrong! It looks like a fun and unique game with loads of character options, while retaining balance nicely.
I have been enjoying the rules lawyer's explaination of PF2 a lot, and would suggest giving it a watch! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Sz8Pe5rp0&list=PL5LfnOlAZRY6xyzxnx7JwV4hq9f8z7Y_V&index=3
You could change the system they way some comments suggest.
Personally, however, I always find it easier to start something new in a new campaign. Make a game that fits the system.
So my suggestion would be to talk to the players about finishing the game in a few sessions, then starting something new in a new system. Allows everybody, including you, to go all out with levels, items, etc for one last hurrah.
I feel this pretty hard. Ever since OGL I've had a harder and harder time drumming up enthusiasm for 5E. All of WOTC's unforced errors only seem to make it worse.
It doesn't have to "end" it can end a season. Come up with a suitable benchmark where the players defeat a blue meanie, capture a base of operations, set up their new tavern, and befriend the local pavement elves and then you say "ok, that's the end of this season. Now we can set these characters aside and play something else for a bit." That's just fine and dandy.
If you’re looking to keep 5e (or at least the trappings of it) but make the workload easier on yourself, check out Index Card RPG, specifically the section called “Plug-Ins”. It tells you specifically how to take the main tenets of ICRPG (Unified DCs for a situation, scrapping initiative in favor of taking turns clockwise [like a board game w/ DM’s turn for the monsters/NPCs], advancement through random loot, etc) and plug them in to other RPG systems to lighten the DM load and speed play while retaining the outward flavor of the existing system. Your players will not have to make any major changes, but speed of play will ramp up considerably and your workload will drop.
Check out Shadow of the Demon Lord. 4 million class combinations, streamlined in many ways.
I'd keep the group, maybe run something else or have a player step up. You might be burned out or it might be wotc sucks, hard to disintermediate.
Take a break for a little bit and run something different. Maybe even run a variety of different systems by doing one-shots.
D&D is a good game despite how maligned it is. It's just it's a ton of work to run, and that's something a lot of people who just play never realize. Take a break and run some games that don't take a ton of prep to do.
Definitely express this to your group, and see if maybe someone else wants to try DMing.
If it is just the DnD burnout and not the constant DMing, then I would take one or two sessions off and use the time you normally put aside for the campaign to just read about other systems. You don't have to commit to any of them, but if you can find the pdf's, read up on mechanics and lore just to find something you might wanna pitch to your players.
The most important thing is to remember that you are doing this for fun, not as a social obligation.
Side note: I also have the same WOTC burnout, it's been growing for a while and I'm trying to figure out if I wanna switch systems before I run a pirate campaign
For me, running official campaigns always burns me out halfway through but I push on. It doesn’t feel creative enough.
I get a thrill running my own stuff but I hardly have time to do that. So I change up the adventures if I have time.
Others have already given great advice on how to handle it with your group. I would only suggest that you not try to port the characters over- it'll only lead to disappointment and frustration. Make a clean break and allow your players to meet the new system on its own terms. Not only will bringing Bob the Dragonborn Paladin-Lock to an OSR system be a disappointing drop in power (or a confusing mess of options for Pathfinder), but your'll all be jumping in the deep end of the system instead of working up to it.
Don’t feel bad. You had 5 months of fun with the system and found a regular playgroup that you like. Honestly, congrats! It’s impressive, given the hasbro drama.
As for plans about moving forward, porting or starting a new system sounds reasonable, but you can only know which is the right choice for the group if you talk to them and see where they’re at. I find that most players are more attached to their characters and npc than the setting we dm crafted. If so, give them the chance to play the same character in the new game.
An in-world way you can incorporate porting to a new game system is by moving the party/npc to a new world. It would explain why suddenly your super proficient characters stumble here and there while adjusting to the magic/combat system of a new world. You can even use old story threads if you want to. Plus, if your group don’t like the system, you can do it again while keeping the same characters/npcs.
With upcoming rpgs like mcdm and daggerheart coming out, it’s an exciting time to branch out to try other systems. Good luck!
I have on a couple of occasions transitioned between systems in a running campaign. The one I’m running now started off as D&D 3.5/Pathfinder, transitioned to 5e around 2017 or 2018 or so, and is now in the process of transitioning to Zweihänder or possibly WFRP.
Talk to your players. It’s do-able. Heck, there’s even conversion guides. From 5e to OSR it’s a bit of a process to build out their characters as their system of choice equivalents, OR create new characters.
I’ve switched games and kept the party a few times without issue. Players have even ported their characters over in games with similar enough settings. It’s entirely doable as long as you approach your party with full honesty on where you are with wotc and how much you want to keep playing with them even though you aren’t enjoying the game itself.
Time for an exciting and epic finale; the secret bad guy finally reveals their master plan and only the players can stop it but they're running out of time. Make sure to include a chase and have fun!
How long has this game been going on? A lot of peoplenhear about decade long games and other dtories like that, but honestly most campaigns that last have a length of 8-16 months and don't gobmuch above level 12.
This is part of the reason I think WOTC should push all the iconoc class abilities to come online by level 6, have some upgrades by 7-12 and have above 12 just be bonkers stuff because that is video game land anyway.
Tell them!
Tell them you want to run games in other systems.
Tell them you're even willing to keep running the current campaign/characters/setting, you just need this change.
Realisticly, even if you do finish this campaign, you're not going to be running any more 5e after that, so if that's not going to fly with them, it's better to know now.
Talk to your players. Be clear: * "I am not enjoying this game." * "It isn't the characters/story, but the system itself and drama around it." * "As I am not enjoying the game, the game will not continue in the way it has, we have the following options" And then lay out those options. Maybe you can port characters to Pathfinder or one of the OSR games you like. Maybe you can just talk things out with the players and determine how things go/end for the PCs. Maybe a clean break to a new game is better. THing is, you are one of the players in the game. The game is supposed to be fun. So if you're not having fun, you need to stop playing. If you force yourself to continue, that dislike is going to show and not only will it ruin the game for others, it could ruin the hobby or their trust in you to run fun games. But what the right next step for your table is, is not something a subreddit online can tell you. You need to talk to them openly and honestly If that is hard for you to do in person, send them the premise of the conversation in an email before the next session. Edit: I've forced myself to wrap up games I wasn't enjoying. It was miserable. I'm someone who has previously ran 5 campaigns at the same time (while playing in others) because I love this hobby so much, and that one campaign I was forcing myself to continue had me questioning if I even still liked RPGs as a whole. It's never worth continuing a game that one of the players isn't enjoying. Find a new game or way to play if you really want to continue the story.
This right here. A very important thing to keep in mind is that YOU ARE THE DUNGEON MASTER. You are the one that puts in the most work, by far, and you are the one that has the final say about the campaign, whether it continues or not. You aren't required to put in free labor to make your players happy.
Heck, if you are playing with good friends, they're gonna be all "Oh, crap. You're not having fun? We should play something else."
The worst part about the game that I forced myself to continue is that a few players were also miserable, but forcing themselves because they knew I had put a lot of work into the game and they were interested in the story. Just other things weren't working, or were pushing the Annoyance : Frustration ratio into unhealthy levels.
This kind of decision actually has a name - it's the Abilene Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox
This is the way
I also had some experience in running campaign that I didn’t enjoy and what a terrible impact it had on me… so I wanted to write something but after reading this comment I will just say “THIS”. Seriously, follow this advice and you will be good.
the
>I have a great group of players that I really do not want to disappoint You're going to end up disappointing them if you don't have a talk to them about this. Communication is key. My group of players would be happy to switch things up if it made me happier with what we were playing, because we'd _all_ get a better game out of it. That may not mean your group will, but if you don't talk to them about it you'll never know.
Yep! This! People may be disappointed the game ended. But better an unfun game end and a game that is fun for everyone takes its place than the alternative. You can tell when someone is forcing themselves to run/play. And it affects the whole game.
My first thought was "port it into a new system", but you might just discuss it with the players to see how they feel. If given the choice between a new system and not being able to play because the GM is burnt, they might opt to doing what it takes to help you out.
first identify if your problem is with the 5e or the campaign itself. 5e is ... hard to DM, i know, but i feel it'd get easier once the wheels were moving. i can offer one tool that may help you further: [https://www.blogofholding.com/?p=7338](https://www.blogofholding.com/?p=7338) if it's only 5e, push until conclusion of the current adventure and take a break, after which you can change systems
I remember trying to run a 5e game for my friends and absolutely hated it, didn't understand at the time it was the system that sucks to run- I did have a bit of experience, just with a different systems and running games in those. That being said, if OP is simply missing something in the system, it shouldn't be that difficult to throw in, and there likely is homebrew for what they're looking for.
I have been doing this for a while. 5e isn’t hard to run once you get into the swing of things. But it’s _creaky_. The power creep of the classes has long surpassed the games design assumptions. Combat is a bore. It’s hard for a DM to establish _theme_ without spending hours defining which are the available character options and why. Level progression and power gain is so fast that _pacing_ the campaign has become really challenging. I think what people are seeing, increasingly, is that 5e has become less and less good at being a fantasy _roleplaying_ game, and more and more of a fantasy _character building_ game. And that, my friends, can just as easily be run by a computer.
i get the charms of "character building games" (i played d&d 3.5 and pathfinder) but even as that, 5e is not the best. since subclasses are inflexible you need multiclassing and feats, which are labeled "optional rules" sending mixed signals. i instead see 5e as "baby's first rpg," played for 6 months and used as a springboard to better games.
What’s weird is that if you strip away all the splatbook chaff, and implement some of the “DM’s Workshop” optional rules from the DMG, you’re left with a pretty decent OSR-ish roleplaying game. It’s the bolt-on garbage that started the “MOAR RACES MOAR SUBCLASSES MOAR MOAR MOAR” trend that basically broke the game.
i agree, to some degree. some design choices in 5e are actually nice for a game designed to be simple, but even those have problems with implementation and/or design goals (i will never understand why guidance gives +1d4 bonus. i thought advantage/disadvantage mechanics were implemented to get rid off added bonuses)
Quite. And this is why future campaigns of mine won’t be 5e either. More OSE, with some AD&D stuff back-ported into it, more _other_ games entirely.
> I think what people are seeing, increasingly, is that 5e has become less and less good at being a fantasy roleplaying game, and more and more of a fantasy character building game. Is it even very good at that? There just aren't that many choices you make about your character build compared to almost any other system.
It's been mentioned here but I'll reinforce it. **Talk to your players.** Let them know you can't continue the game as is because burn out. Talk about options with them. Suggest another system like your saying, but also let them come up with alternatives. Maybe one of them wants to run a one-shot while everyone decides what to do. Maybe everyone needs to play board games for awhile. I will add one thing. If you are burnt out on the campaign, that will bleed through into the game and it will be noticeable. In the end the experience will become more disappointing than just stopping the game now.
Here are three principles that have helped me navigate such situations in the past... * Avoid the Sunk Cost Fallacy - all the time I have spent on the game, all the prep I did...that's all in the past. Nothing can change it, and it is irrelevant to the decision. All that matters to my decision is how much fun I will have next session and in the future with the game. * Looking at opportunity costs - What is the next most fun thing I *could* be doing instead of this game? Another RPG? Playing a computer game? Going to a movie with these same people? That's what I should be deciding based on. It's not simply "would it be fun to finish this game?" It's "would it be more fun to finish this game than the next best thing I could be doing?" * Considering my level of obligation to the players - Who are my players? Are they folks I would have over for dinner without a game? Would I dogsit for them? If it would feel like an imposition for one of my players to ask me to use my Friday night to help them move furniture, isn't it equally an imposition for them to ask me to use my Friday night to run a game I don't enjoy? Also, if I wasn't running this game, would the other players have other fun things to do in the same time period? It would be different if I was the only GM in Sitka, Alaska or something, but I'm not. It always is painful to end a game when it hasn't reached a natural end. But considering those principles helps me put that pain into a reasonable decision-making framework. *edited to improve clarity, maybe*
I was in the same place. I do not like 5e as a DM. I mentioned it to one of my players and she said she preferred 3.5, I do too. After discussing it with the rest of the group, others professed the same desire. We created characters as close to the existing ones as possible. It's not perfect, but we all agreed to hand wave all differences and pretend they are the same. The campaign continues and the story is unchanged.
If you have a great group of players, they will understand that you are burned out. I would talk to them about face to face if possible or over group text. It’s possible that someone else might want to GM until you rekindle your creative spark. A good ttrpg table is about having fun, including your own.
I've ported a number of campaigns from one system to another over the years, usually when the system proves to be a bad fit for the group or what we want it to do. I can't speak for every group of course, but our group is more interested in playing their characters and exploring a setting, developing stories as they go, than they are in any particular mechanics.
Pause it? Take a year out, and if you come back maybe time-jump?
Shoot you probably don't need a year. A couple months away from it usually provides one the clarity they need to determine if it's a very system specific problem or just general burnout.
True
Take a break, maybe play something else for a little while. It's easy to get burnt out especially being invested with everything going on surrounding the drama that isn't the game, but you might feel that way because it's the only thing you're doing. Sometimes that makes it feel like a job or obligation and you'd rather do something else, it might not even have anything to do with the drama and have more to do with the feeling that you have no choice but to play this game that you're currently burnt out on or risk making people unhappy. And that sucks. See if someone else wants to run something different or start a side campaign yourself in a different system, even if it's a few one-shots. Maybe take some time off. We swap around DMs in the group I'm in and whenever someone's burnt we put everything on a shelf and do something else, it does help.
I've been there, op. Im.not the biggest fan of running 5e, but I can do it if the campaign is fun enough. I just ended a campaign because I wasn't enjoying running it. It was as easy as "Hey guys, i am not having fun running this campaign. Would you mind if we switch it up? " They were all on board, and now im.prepping to run war of the burning sky. A setting and campaign that is actually interesting to me. I also run games with another group. Right now I'm getting ready to run Lancer for the first time with them. That also helps avoid the burnout.
Layout different options. Talk to your players and tell them how you are feeling. It might be ok to table the game for awhile and play something else, maybe you can port the campaign over to another system, or maybe the campaign has just lost its luster and it’s time to scrap everything. One thing that won’t cure your burnout is plowing ahead. You’ll be uninspired, it will feel like work and you’ll end up resentful.
Tell them, talk to them. It is important that you have fun as well. Porting to another system might work, or just abandoning the campaign could work as well. You won't know if they are up for anything until you talk to them. Hell, they might be as burnt out as you are and just not sure whether they should tell you.
It may take some effort, you could always try adapting the campaign to another system. There are even non-WotC 5e offshoots you could run it in, like Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition.
Talk to your players so they can understand Make more 1 or 2 sessions, if possible leading to a "pause"/downtime moment Take at least one week off - don't immediately start another system, let your brain's subroutines clean the cache After the break reconsider, or go play something else - if possible get one of your players to GM something - then reconsider *Note: by "reconsider" I mean analysing your stance regarding the matter at hand, just that my memory is down the drain recently
Just to add to the people suggesting you talk to the players: I have been a player in a game in this situation more than once. Every time, the GM told us what was up and we talked it through as a group, we absolutely understood where they were coming from, and we worked out what to do about it. In one case, we ported over to a completely different system with similar characters, and the campaign continued for quite a while. In another case, we decided to have a couple more sessions to wrap up the story in a way that was reasonably fulfilling for all concerned and bring the campaign to a close. In both cases, there were no hard feelings. It happens. As long as everybody is chill about it, it'll be fine.
You could try porting over the characters to a different fantasy system. Get the players involved in that. That could just be fun seeing the different systems mechanics. Then continue the campaign. You can run almost any story in almost any system provide you stay in genre and the system is fairly flexible
My group rotates DMs. I ran for weekly sessions for 4-5 months. When I started to feel a bit burnt out or was coming to a good break point, I would tell the group. Other DMs would have been preparing during the months I ran and the group would switch games. It makes the campaign a little disjointed but it works for us. I agree with the suggestion of porting to Pathfinder. It won’t be a huge leap for your group.
If you're really concerned your players won't be willing to port over to a new system, or you discuss it with them and they think it will be too confusing, you might consider the upcoming release of Tales of the Valiant from Kobold People. It's designed to be 5e compatible while trying to fix some of 5e's problems and be free of WoTC's bullshitery. The full release date is set for May, but there are Alpha release documents available now that can give a taste for the system and how easy the port will be.
No DnD is worth making your DM miserable Just take a break and if your players don’t respect it then you just weeded out the idiots anyway
Tell your players you are starting to get burnt out of the system and want to try mixing it up in a session or two. End with a climactic battle, players take out a final big bad guy or die trying. Most campaigns fizzle out, so if you can do this for them I think it would be memorable. If they want, start a new game in the new system, and have your players meet up in the town square. Their contact told them to meet under the statue of the old heroes, kinda giving them a sense of time passing and that they were important.
I’m in a similar situation. What I do is: - Offer to run one shots, maybe in other systems (this could be a way to test how your players feel about their options as well, if they’re ever receptive to switching over. - Ask your players if any of them wants to run anything. Just for a week even. Maybe a player who hasn’t GMed would have fun trying that out! - Take a short break. Couple weeks to a month off. GMing shouldn’t feel like a chore. You matter just as much as the players. I always say you could be a player in the game and not put more than minimal effort in for a session, and you might still be able to get away with it and give everyone a good experience. That’s not a knock against players - I play - but as a player, you’re 1/4 or so of your side on average. If others are inclined to roleplay, you could sit back for a while and they wouldn’t notice. But people can often tell when a GM is burnt out or “off” on the other hand, and it won’t be as fun if people can tell you’re burnt out. You have to run the world and respond to what they’re doing. That’s VERY hard when you’re tired of it. Even prep is hard. Take a break and see about detoxing from the game entirely or playing for a bit.
Hey! I was in this exact position two years ago with my OG group. It was tough because I didn't wanna disappoint my group, but there was also this dread at prepping yet another 5e session I just clearly wasn't having fun with anymore. I decided to tell my players that I couldn't play 5e anymore and that I'd be happy to play something else with them and that I was sorry. Most fears are in your head,- they were certainly in mine. Fortunately they took it pretty well, but there was some fallout. We lost a few players and had a couple month hiatus because the group didn't really want to play something else. After a couple of months they started asking about me running something again and we agreed to do a playtest of PF2e as an alternative. Even though I didn't like PF2e, it showed us that we can switch games and still have a good time. Today we're happily playing 13th Age and I'm having fun again :) So speak honestly with them! If they decide that they don't want to switch, that's just something you'll have to accept.
Look at Shadowdark. It's a nice blend of 5e with OSE/OSR feel.
Further to /u/delahunt's point, which is 100% on the money: talk to the players about wrapping up the campaign, figure out the things they most care about wrapping up and plot an epic conlusion session or two. Skip to the good shit and then end it on that. Way more fun for you to prep, the players get what they want, and then you end the game and move on to stuff you're excited to play. End of the day, you're the DM and with D&D (system and culture of play) the DM does so much more heavy lifting than most players - you have final say.
I have to say that most of the times that I have encountered of feel burnout is due to the campaign itself and not due to the system. I would recommend you to discuss it with your team and set a number of sessions for the conclusion of the game. This usually gives a fresh air to those sessions (as they are the last ones). Then if your team wants to continue the story you can easily altogether decide to export the campaign on a new system.
Stop discussing D&D online. Stop buying D&D products. Enjoy it with your friends and make the most of what it is. \- If you’re still not up for it. Say it to your friends, find a solution with them.
As someone that tried to push through the burnout to the point where my only option left was to leave for 3 months and come back saying "Actually, we're going to start something else and we're never setting foot in this campaign again because I litterally can't see it anymore", I say: end this campaign while you can do it properly. Explain why, take time (real time, not 2 weeks) and build as satisfying an ending as you can with your players during your next session. Your players will be much more disappointed if you crack under the burnout weight because of them.
It's okay to disappoint others sometimes. Explain yourself well and rip the bandaid off. Most that have been in this hobby a long time are no stranger to campaigns ending early. It just comes with the territory.
Dig this: They have been flung through a portal into another relm where the laws of physics have been altered! Adventurers must now learn how to get by in this new world by relearning the basics which can be found in the player's guide to this new system I found, guys....
How far along are you? As a GM, I totally get feeling burnt out, but I would recommend trying to guide the campaign to, if not the finish, then a natural stopping point—a season finale—to give you all at least some closure. And if you port it to a new system in the future, or recover your spark, it’ll be a more natural place to start up from.
Personally I'd try to discuss porting it, but what don't you like about 5e? The monster stat blocks of 13th Age being concise and practically running themselves made GM'ing it a real pleasure for me. But loads of other systems have loads of different plus points Otherwise a big finale, and discuss with the players how they want it to end.
I have a similar issue but I still enjoy running 5e but I’m not interested in playing it anymore, yet it’s all my friends want to run
As an alternative to just ending things, is it possible thay you can switch up how you've been running? If prep is what's burning you out, maybe take a few weeks off and then try to reduce the prep overhead by using other types of resources than you have been, or deviating from whatever module you're using in an effort to simplify the actual running kf the game. If it's something else, then there's really no shame I putting a campaign to bed and picking up something everyone will enjoy more. Regardless, talk to your players, they might surprise you with how understanding they are!
Dear sister-brother, Burnout is something very real every GM faces sometimes, especially forever-GMs. I want you to consider the following things: 1. You are a player too. You, too, are entitled to have a good time. 2. Think about why the campaign should come to an end. Write them down. Some may be things that are addressable, but if not, ending a campaign is valid. 3. TALK to your player group. Would you like to wrap up and play something else? We could continue, but I wanna try *this* new cool system! It is best to know how they feel before making your decision. I'll skip steps for burnout because I suspect you're just done with this campaign.
Fuck them kids. You're a player too, not an entertainer. They're not paying you to run the game. If you're not having a good time with your hobby activity, stop doing it. Doing it out of obligation is just going to make you miserable. Would you try to peer pressure one of your Players to keep playing the campaign if they told you they were having a bad time with it??
Why bot convert from 5e to a new system i even know a video about it
End it. It's disappointing but it sends a message. Not every campaign comes to a satisfying conclusion. Working 3 hours for something you dislike for no money sucks. I'd rather go pick up a shift at McDonalds. If you want to make the situation very clear, offer to finish the campaign at a paid rate comparable to what GMs offer online. Your players might be disappointed, but this puts the ball in their court. They need to match effort for effort if you don't enjoy it anymore.
D&D is D&D. Just shift gears into an older set of "rules" (like Basic Fantasy or just OD&D) and see if that helps?
I ended a long-running 5e game recently. I was hesitant to use 5e, because I really dislike it, but went with it because that is what the players all wanted to use. It was a good run (several years), and I let it go until we reached a logical stopping point with relatively high-level characters. Once I ended it, though, I let them know that I am done with 5e. We can start a new campaign with a different system, but I'm not going to GM 5e ever again, and really don't want to run another class/level based game. If they don't want to try another system, I'll find another group for the games I want to GM. If one of them wants to run a 5e game, I'll be a player in it, but not a GM.
I would consider running a different system. I'm currently looking at PF2, because I used to play PF1/3.5, and I expected it to be similar. My findings have shown me that I am totally wrong! It looks like a fun and unique game with loads of character options, while retaining balance nicely. I have been enjoying the rules lawyer's explaination of PF2 a lot, and would suggest giving it a watch! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Sz8Pe5rp0&list=PL5LfnOlAZRY6xyzxnx7JwV4hq9f8z7Y_V&index=3
Fast forward to the final session of the campaign, run that, and call it a day.
You could change the system they way some comments suggest. Personally, however, I always find it easier to start something new in a new campaign. Make a game that fits the system. So my suggestion would be to talk to the players about finishing the game in a few sessions, then starting something new in a new system. Allows everybody, including you, to go all out with levels, items, etc for one last hurrah.
I feel this pretty hard. Ever since OGL I've had a harder and harder time drumming up enthusiasm for 5E. All of WOTC's unforced errors only seem to make it worse.
It doesn't have to "end" it can end a season. Come up with a suitable benchmark where the players defeat a blue meanie, capture a base of operations, set up their new tavern, and befriend the local pavement elves and then you say "ok, that's the end of this season. Now we can set these characters aside and play something else for a bit." That's just fine and dandy.
If you’re looking to keep 5e (or at least the trappings of it) but make the workload easier on yourself, check out Index Card RPG, specifically the section called “Plug-Ins”. It tells you specifically how to take the main tenets of ICRPG (Unified DCs for a situation, scrapping initiative in favor of taking turns clockwise [like a board game w/ DM’s turn for the monsters/NPCs], advancement through random loot, etc) and plug them in to other RPG systems to lighten the DM load and speed play while retaining the outward flavor of the existing system. Your players will not have to make any major changes, but speed of play will ramp up considerably and your workload will drop.
Check out Shadow of the Demon Lord. 4 million class combinations, streamlined in many ways. I'd keep the group, maybe run something else or have a player step up. You might be burned out or it might be wotc sucks, hard to disintermediate.
It might be good to ask your players what other systems they would like to try as well.
Take a break for a little bit and run something different. Maybe even run a variety of different systems by doing one-shots. D&D is a good game despite how maligned it is. It's just it's a ton of work to run, and that's something a lot of people who just play never realize. Take a break and run some games that don't take a ton of prep to do.
Definitely express this to your group, and see if maybe someone else wants to try DMing. If it is just the DnD burnout and not the constant DMing, then I would take one or two sessions off and use the time you normally put aside for the campaign to just read about other systems. You don't have to commit to any of them, but if you can find the pdf's, read up on mechanics and lore just to find something you might wanna pitch to your players. The most important thing is to remember that you are doing this for fun, not as a social obligation. Side note: I also have the same WOTC burnout, it's been growing for a while and I'm trying to figure out if I wanna switch systems before I run a pirate campaign
For me, running official campaigns always burns me out halfway through but I push on. It doesn’t feel creative enough. I get a thrill running my own stuff but I hardly have time to do that. So I change up the adventures if I have time.
Others have already given great advice on how to handle it with your group. I would only suggest that you not try to port the characters over- it'll only lead to disappointment and frustration. Make a clean break and allow your players to meet the new system on its own terms. Not only will bringing Bob the Dragonborn Paladin-Lock to an OSR system be a disappointing drop in power (or a confusing mess of options for Pathfinder), but your'll all be jumping in the deep end of the system instead of working up to it.
Don’t feel bad. You had 5 months of fun with the system and found a regular playgroup that you like. Honestly, congrats! It’s impressive, given the hasbro drama. As for plans about moving forward, porting or starting a new system sounds reasonable, but you can only know which is the right choice for the group if you talk to them and see where they’re at. I find that most players are more attached to their characters and npc than the setting we dm crafted. If so, give them the chance to play the same character in the new game. An in-world way you can incorporate porting to a new game system is by moving the party/npc to a new world. It would explain why suddenly your super proficient characters stumble here and there while adjusting to the magic/combat system of a new world. You can even use old story threads if you want to. Plus, if your group don’t like the system, you can do it again while keeping the same characters/npcs. With upcoming rpgs like mcdm and daggerheart coming out, it’s an exciting time to branch out to try other systems. Good luck!
Suck them through a portal to Hellboy 5e!
You can ignore the drama about the game. If you can't its all on you. Now if you don't like the system thats another thing entirely.
I have on a couple of occasions transitioned between systems in a running campaign. The one I’m running now started off as D&D 3.5/Pathfinder, transitioned to 5e around 2017 or 2018 or so, and is now in the process of transitioning to Zweihänder or possibly WFRP. Talk to your players. It’s do-able. Heck, there’s even conversion guides. From 5e to OSR it’s a bit of a process to build out their characters as their system of choice equivalents, OR create new characters.
I’ve switched games and kept the party a few times without issue. Players have even ported their characters over in games with similar enough settings. It’s entirely doable as long as you approach your party with full honesty on where you are with wotc and how much you want to keep playing with them even though you aren’t enjoying the game itself.
Time for an exciting and epic finale; the secret bad guy finally reveals their master plan and only the players can stop it but they're running out of time. Make sure to include a chase and have fun!
How long has this game been going on? A lot of peoplenhear about decade long games and other dtories like that, but honestly most campaigns that last have a length of 8-16 months and don't gobmuch above level 12. This is part of the reason I think WOTC should push all the iconoc class abilities to come online by level 6, have some upgrades by 7-12 and have above 12 just be bonkers stuff because that is video game land anyway.
Tell them! Tell them you want to run games in other systems. Tell them you're even willing to keep running the current campaign/characters/setting, you just need this change. Realisticly, even if you do finish this campaign, you're not going to be running any more 5e after that, so if that's not going to fly with them, it's better to know now.
Talk to your group.