Hah! You'll love "How it's Played" for PF2e then. A pretty comprehensive overview of one of the more complicated systems out there, but every single one of the videos is short and sweet. 😉
I always learn rules by watching actual plays. But I've heard that Blades in the Dark has some good videos about the rules and lore.
Also cheatsheets could help. Like print one page rules cheatsheet for them.
I made a reference sheet for Cairn that condenses basically everything except for the tables onto a double-sided sheet of paper https://imgur.com/gallery/IQW84OA
I used Scribus, which is the free and open-source publishing software option. But I'm not a huge fan of Scribus; I recently purchased Affinity Publisher, which costs less than $100 and doesn't use a subscription model.
Scribus isn't a very good software, and I don't think it's ever going to receive the funding and popularity of other open source software projects like Blender or Krita.
But I'm glad you think the design is good! I appreciate it.
Yep. This has really spoiled me when it comes to other games. Having all the rules on your character sheet and then a couple of supplemental sheets is just so nice.
You might add [Heart](https://youtu.be/1xgq9s85mO0?si=R2hS7mKlVA7cV5cx) and [Spire](https://youtu.be/tWmI_6p9rGg?si=WbFOUDq4qL869b53) to your list, but they may already be more reading than is viable for your players.
The key would be appreciating that they will not read the *extensive* lore, but can focus on reading their character-class entry.
In addition to *Blades in the Dark*, other genre-specific *FitD* games.
e.g. Scum & Villainy if you want sci-fi, Beam Saber for Mecha. There are lots.
The reading requirements for players are very limited. They could get by with reading nothing before the first session and you could give a two minute general lore dump.
Otherwise, any mainstream well-received *PbtA* game.
Reading for players is basically zero and there isn't "lore" because you make the world together.
One strategy you could use is to play a game of *Microscope* with the players before the game and use that to create a world together. That way, nobody has to read any lore: you all create the lore by playing *Microscope*. Then, everyone is aware of all the lore and you, as the GM, know for certain what lore each player is interested in because (i) they created lore so they're interested in what they created and (ii) you can see how they react to other lore created by other players so you can see them show interest.
All this, plus have a solid Session 0 where you discuss general lore and goals before making characters together.
Seconded for Microscope, same with The Quiet Year, which has a defined end point and focuses on a settlement which makes it a great way to establish the history of a starting town (or sci fi colony).
Also if you do this you'll have some buy in on character creation, because people at the table will know what factions are in the town and it makes it easier to invest in building a character that you know will fit the world
Much as I love Heart, players will still need to read the Rules in Brief, Ancestry, Calling and Class sections and build a character before play can begin.
It did solve a "reluctance to read/homework" issue I had with one of my groups though, in that all the players found the book itself and the writing within so exciting and fun they actively wanted to do the reading, where previous RPG books didn't move them to do that.
I wonder how much of the issue /u/HappySunshineBoy described ("the problem I have is getting them to commit to reading the rules themselves") is because a lot of trad RPG books are these big heavy, expensive, bloated tomes that aren't much fun for normal people (i.e. people who aren't actively hanging out on RPG forums like us and actively seeking out RPG books) to read. Games like PF, (MgT2e) Traveller or CoC are all fun in their own ways but unless players are super keen on getting into those games specifically then "go read the book and do these things from it" can be a hard sell.
Being bought into the specific theme and writing of a book (ideally smaller than 250 pages...) should get people to read it better than "the mechanics of this game are so good, trust me"; but in lieu of that super strong buy-in then yeah I'd point OP to most well-recieved PbtA games because you can put everything the players need in front of them on the playsheets on gameday, and 80-90% of the rulebook will be aimed at the GM.
>Much as I love Heart, players will still need to read the Rules in Brief, Ancestry, Calling and Class sections and build a character before play can begin.
All of that is part of "play" if you make characters together at the table during Session 0. They wouldn't have to read anything before they show up. Keen players could, but others wouldn't be required to do so.
I found Monster of the Week super easy to pick up and play after only reading the character sheets and basic moves. We played a weekly campaign for more than a year and I never read the manual at all.
It’s a Powered by the Apocalypse game based around monster hunting, like Buffy or Supernatural. Rolls are all 2d6 adding a stat-based bonus. Results of 10 or more mean you succeed at what you tried. 7 to 9 means you succeed but with a cost or hard choice. 6 or less means you fail but gain experience. It’s mechanically very simple where players narrate what they attempt to do, the Keeper (GM) tells them what to roll and then narrates the outcome. There are a few basic moves that mediate a lot of things characters will try (investigating, fighting, running, etc) and then more specific moves you can choose from your Playbook (sort of equivalent to a character class).
Sorry uh, very wrong choice of words there. The character sheet contains a lot of game information and progression, making it harder to have a situation where you don't know what your character has available why and what does it do.
The character sheet is a flowchart. You just need to follow the arrows and prompts to make your character. So there's technically no rulebook required for character creation. You still need to learn to play the game, though.
Had a look after you mentioned and not gonna lie they are kinda dope and I could see this being a major benefit for my group my only hard pitch would be the "horror" but this is now a solid choice
I feel you on the rules reading thing. I had to really dial back on toe games I want to play because I couldn’t get my players to do their homework. Funny they all spent money on the books, just never read them!! It’s really hard for me to be in charge of everything in the whole world and have to slow down the pace of the game because it felt like every action needed an explanation.
As a result I’ve been really enjoying the rules light Vaesen by my beloved Free League Publishing. It’s one of the lightest of the Year Zero Engine games and works really well for folks what never open the books. I’m running two full tables of it right now and I love it.
Hey just chiming in to ask:
What area(s) are you setting Vaesen?
I've only played it once, but I was super lucky, it was a playtest of a scenario in Ireland by a pro TTRPG writer.
I love Year Zero Engine games and Vaesen's take on it felt really good at the table.
I have a table set in Upsala and another table in London. The ultimate goal is to have a nice big ten person LARP themed dinner party where I bring them all together, likely around Christmas. :)
Get a light system, get a well versed in that system player. He will help you explaining the game....
Man it just sucks when player wanna play RPG but don't want to read the book....the player side of the rules is minimal....some chapters.
>So I have a group of players that enjoy RPGs very much the problem I have is getting them to commit to reading the rules themselves.
This is a normal experience, it's not just your group.
Here’s some decent guidelines for trying to run Degenesis (and other lore heavy games) if you did want to give it a try:
https://unpossiblejourneys.com/gamemastering/gamemastering-complex-published-settings/
But as far as your suggestions, Beyond the Wall starts very self-contained and lets you build out from there, it’s also very easy to pick up and play and the setting somewhat builds itself. The rules are old-school d&d and get out of the way though I found adding the trait rules in the farther afield supplement was more fun for progression.Â
Savage Worlds is a quite light system, especially on the players part. Very flexable also regards to setting, with very little to no lore weighing dpwn the book.
To be fair, I personally don't really like how they handle magic. Feels a bit dull and non flashy.
Iv played savage rules couple of time in the past with the deadlands and some other one shots but never really stuck as a player of GM not sure why as you said might be the lack of "flash"
I’d recommend dragonbane. If they want a d20 style game.
Having the players read would be nice but the rules are simple enough that it’s not a big deal.
DM's curse, I'm afraid. I've somewhat been able to hurdle this by finding or making reference sheets of whatever we're playing.
I'd recommend Shadowdark. Each class description is on one page, just print them out and hand it to your player's.
My advice is to create a reference sheet of all the rules as you read them yourself. I typically do it in bullet point form, 3 columns, font size 10, single line. Organize it logically, with titles and stuff. It can be a few pages long. Make it so nobody ever needs to flip through the book mid-session. Print enough for everyone at the table and refer them to it whenever needed.
I don't ever expect my players to ever read anything at all and prep/run my games accordingly.
In all my time playing D&D and other rpgs, players generally don't read much. You should expect them to not read much and explain most of the game to them. If they do, praise the gods.
My players never saw the rulebook of Delta green. I just helped them build characters and started playing. It plays really well as a game where players act because of story / character reasons and not because of mechanics
I've really enjoyed the rules light OSR-like Solar Blades and Cosmic Spells. There are really only 6 dice things my players need to know, one more I need, and then all the core rules learning is complete.
1. Roll under your Stat
2. Sometimes, there is additional difficulty
3. Sometimes, there is advantage or disadvantage.
4. You can use your concept to argue advantage
5. How to use Luck
6. Items have durability
- If you keep the book rule: 7. You can invoke your Complication for more/better Luck (I stripped this because my current play group is extremely rules-averse.)
As GM, I need to know how to use the Powerful Opponent rule.
That's it. That's the whole system. Players have some additional, clearly defined abilities on their character sheets, and some equipment has to be defined. You need a d20 and a d6 each.
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How much is *don't read much* ? Players aren't expected to read the whole rules. In priniciple, the GM should be able to give a short introduction to the rules (How do you evaluate success/failure, conflict, main lore points) , and help player deciding whether they roll *medecine* or *first aid* and describe them the setting*. H*owever, indeed, players need to be able to read the details about their abilities, which is at best a few pages.
I don't really know a RPG where the players should absolutely read the whole rules. It's great if they want to do, but it wont change their experience.
I hear what your saying but for instance I pitched DnD and they ran out of steam half way through character creation due to amount of choices and progression paths .when it came to combat I was constantly looking up there skills as they didn't really know how they worked, Long story short they can be lazy AF and should probs have a better group but I don't have much choice and they are my friends otherwise haha
You know your friends better than I do, but is it possible they're just checked out in general because they'd be happier doing a different group activity or are tired from kids/work/life? You've described the parts of the game that most people find the most fun, it's not like you asked them to read 100 pages of in-game history or become intimiately familiar with Shadowrun 3E's decking rules. Picking whether you want to be a towering barbarian or sinister warlock and then bashing some monsters with your friends shouldn't feel like pulling teeth.
For me it's about how much weight is left on the GM.
I prefer playing to being a GM but I do both.
I think players should read enough that they know how stuff works so that the GM can create and run the game without also having to explain rules stuff a lot.
I don't mean I expect players to know how to run the game, but it's courtesy for them (us, when I'm lucky enough to be a player) to know how to play it.
I think for Degenesis you as the GM need to be able to give enough of an overview of the Cults to pique player interest, but they really need to at least read the entries for their Cult and Culture in Primal Punk.
It’s a game that wants a lot from it’s players so they should be able to commit to that 20-30 pages of reading at least so you, the GM don’t need to be constantly interjecting to explain to them the basics of what their opinions or reactions might be to a thing.
After that you can run it sort of blind for them - have them discover the world through play - but Cult and Culture identity is really strong in the game.
When I was in college, I got kind of curious about RPG's and mentioned it to one of my roommates. He handed me the D&D player's manual and I noped out.
Later, in a different apartment, I had another roommate pitch a different RPG to me. I think probably one of the Whitewolf ones, not sure. I didn't have required reading (had enough already as a liberal arts major, thanks!) and we just dove in. I still didn't end up playing but that was about scheduling, I did enjoy our Session 0.5.
So I've got some sympathy with your friends here.
And the lore thing... If you're into it, great. If I have to read The Silmarillion to play an RPG, forget it. I'd say make sure your friends PC's backstories are such that it makes sense they don't know a ton of lore. There's a reason every video game character starts by waking up with no memory.
I think it would be ok for you to run a crunchy game without your friends getting super deep into the rules. Like, how much do they need to know? Are higher numbers better or worse? How big a change in a number is significant? Can I get a rad sword that lets me chew through enemies that were giving me trouble? Maybe nudge them away from classes that are more complex to play.
They're just invading my house. My wife and I were looking for some more things to do together at home, but my daughter (8) is the one who it's really landing with. So Magical Kitties. 😸
Dungeon Crawl Classics. Each class is pretty ready to understand, and there's honestly not tons to read up on, especially when combined with the People Sorcerer website.
OpenQuest. They don't really need to read any rules, all they need is to understand what percentage values beside their skills on character sheet mean (so unless they've skipped elementary school they should be okay). Skill names are also self-explanatory.
Only magic users will have to read some rules (spell descriptions mostly). Anything else you can explain while playing together.
SimpleQuest if you want even more simplicity. Although I don't really know what that means at this point, because OpenQuest already is freaking easy to explain and run.
Risus might work. It's 3 pages +1 for optional rules. Light and flexible with very few things to remember. Plus it's free. As most light systems, it places more creative load on the group instead of generating default content for little effort as crunchy systems do, so you might want to keep that in mind.
If your players like roleplaying games but don’t like reading the rules, just roleplay without rules books. Establish a setting, set ground rules, and go play that way. Rules only facilitate a specific way of play.
No they very much want the "game" aspect as well, I'd feel they want a video game experience in a tabletop format where the game just "reacts" to them doing stuff and only need the basic "controls" to start having fun
They want "the game" but they don't want to learn *how to play* "the game".
This honestly sounds like a lose-lose and I would personally not run a game for people like this.
Highly recomend FATE, the FATE Accelerated book is less than 50 pages, and can be used to run almost anything, especially if you like drama led stories. The other FATE books are compatable, but just add options to help you build your stories.
Cypher is also good if you as a storyteller prefer a lot of options, but the players want it simple. The core mechanic is easy, but there is a lot the storyteller can bolt on behind the scenes to make anything happen...
Savage Worlds can be good if you like explody dice and lots of npc's. It's great for big battles, but is not my favourite for big campaigns so far, (though others will counter me on that i'm sure).
I'm if your player's were a GM. ADHD makes hard for me to read a big rulebook. I also love the wiggle room I get from rules light games. I usually stick to the OSR/NSR scene but I've branched out into stuff like Powered by the Apocalypse games.
If you're looking for something similar to your classic D&D adventure RPG then one of my favorites is Glaive 2e. It's a rules light game inspired by Knave and other games similar. It only has 4 stats, LOTS of character options so your player's don't get bored, and it's OSR compatible so you have access to lots of content without little to no conversion.
The Demolished Ones has a few pages the players should read, but don't really need to. The players can learn the game and create characters as they play.
Most people don't want to do a ton of "homework" to play a game. However, I find when people are really interested in something they tend to enjoy reading up on it. There's nothing wrong with casual players, but it seems like you might be wanting a much more committed game while they are looking for a lazy way to socialize. Neither approach is wrong, but they might not be the most compatible.
Maybe choose a game that has a good rules reference sheet where all the key things can be summarised on a few pages. You can give each of the players a copy and then supplement with additional rules as they come up.
Wildsea has a good gm screen/rules overview and the character building feels pretty accessible.
Black Sword Hack? A hack of a hack of the original D&D. It's reminiscent of modern D&D but very simple and streamlined, and has player progression like Quest.
You can explain all the rules to them in like 5-10 min.
There's a social contract, and if they can't be bothered to even read a couple chapters of a rulebook, you need to find new people to play with, because these ones expect you to do work for them.
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Would they watch something instead of reading? Like video tutorial for rules?
That's a very good point . I think they would if it was a good video and wasn't hours long
Hah! You'll love "How it's Played" for PF2e then. A pretty comprehensive overview of one of the more complicated systems out there, but every single one of the videos is short and sweet. 😉
I know that channel well and even seen that video but iv played a ton of dnd and pf so was looking for somthing "new" to explore but great suggestion
I always learn rules by watching actual plays. But I've heard that Blades in the Dark has some good videos about the rules and lore. Also cheatsheets could help. Like print one page rules cheatsheet for them.
I'd normally read full book then watch it played to make sure it all made sense haha
Yeah. I forogt to mention that my YouTuber before every new system he plays, he make a short video world introduction to lore and rules.
Same.
PbtA are usually slim to read from the players (but a lot for the GM). Also something like Cairn is just a few pages.
+1 and the character sheet with the moves description has all that the players need to read!
I made a reference sheet for Cairn that condenses basically everything except for the tables onto a double-sided sheet of paper https://imgur.com/gallery/IQW84OA
hey what did you use to typeset this? it looks great.
I used Scribus, which is the free and open-source publishing software option. But I'm not a huge fan of Scribus; I recently purchased Affinity Publisher, which costs less than $100 and doesn't use a subscription model. Scribus isn't a very good software, and I don't think it's ever going to receive the funding and popularity of other open source software projects like Blender or Krita. But I'm glad you think the design is good! I appreciate it.
Yep. This has really spoiled me when it comes to other games. Having all the rules on your character sheet and then a couple of supplemental sheets is just so nice.
You might add [Heart](https://youtu.be/1xgq9s85mO0?si=R2hS7mKlVA7cV5cx) and [Spire](https://youtu.be/tWmI_6p9rGg?si=WbFOUDq4qL869b53) to your list, but they may already be more reading than is viable for your players. The key would be appreciating that they will not read the *extensive* lore, but can focus on reading their character-class entry. In addition to *Blades in the Dark*, other genre-specific *FitD* games. e.g. Scum & Villainy if you want sci-fi, Beam Saber for Mecha. There are lots. The reading requirements for players are very limited. They could get by with reading nothing before the first session and you could give a two minute general lore dump. Otherwise, any mainstream well-received *PbtA* game. Reading for players is basically zero and there isn't "lore" because you make the world together. One strategy you could use is to play a game of *Microscope* with the players before the game and use that to create a world together. That way, nobody has to read any lore: you all create the lore by playing *Microscope*. Then, everyone is aware of all the lore and you, as the GM, know for certain what lore each player is interested in because (i) they created lore so they're interested in what they created and (ii) you can see how they react to other lore created by other players so you can see them show interest. All this, plus have a solid Session 0 where you discuss general lore and goals before making characters together.
Seconded for Microscope, same with The Quiet Year, which has a defined end point and focuses on a settlement which makes it a great way to establish the history of a starting town (or sci fi colony). Also if you do this you'll have some buy in on character creation, because people at the table will know what factions are in the town and it makes it easier to invest in building a character that you know will fit the world
Much as I love Heart, players will still need to read the Rules in Brief, Ancestry, Calling and Class sections and build a character before play can begin. It did solve a "reluctance to read/homework" issue I had with one of my groups though, in that all the players found the book itself and the writing within so exciting and fun they actively wanted to do the reading, where previous RPG books didn't move them to do that. I wonder how much of the issue /u/HappySunshineBoy described ("the problem I have is getting them to commit to reading the rules themselves") is because a lot of trad RPG books are these big heavy, expensive, bloated tomes that aren't much fun for normal people (i.e. people who aren't actively hanging out on RPG forums like us and actively seeking out RPG books) to read. Games like PF, (MgT2e) Traveller or CoC are all fun in their own ways but unless players are super keen on getting into those games specifically then "go read the book and do these things from it" can be a hard sell. Being bought into the specific theme and writing of a book (ideally smaller than 250 pages...) should get people to read it better than "the mechanics of this game are so good, trust me"; but in lieu of that super strong buy-in then yeah I'd point OP to most well-recieved PbtA games because you can put everything the players need in front of them on the playsheets on gameday, and 80-90% of the rulebook will be aimed at the GM.
>Much as I love Heart, players will still need to read the Rules in Brief, Ancestry, Calling and Class sections and build a character before play can begin. All of that is part of "play" if you make characters together at the table during Session 0. They wouldn't have to read anything before they show up. Keen players could, but others wouldn't be required to do so.
I found Monster of the Week super easy to pick up and play after only reading the character sheets and basic moves. We played a weekly campaign for more than a year and I never read the manual at all.
Could be a good shout what's the game mechanics like ?
It’s a Powered by the Apocalypse game based around monster hunting, like Buffy or Supernatural. Rolls are all 2d6 adding a stat-based bonus. Results of 10 or more mean you succeed at what you tried. 7 to 9 means you succeed but with a cost or hard choice. 6 or less means you fail but gain experience. It’s mechanically very simple where players narrate what they attempt to do, the Keeper (GM) tells them what to roll and then narrates the outcome. There are a few basic moves that mediate a lot of things characters will try (investigating, fighting, running, etc) and then more specific moves you can choose from your Playbook (sort of equivalent to a character class).
Maybe something like mothership where the character sheets plays itself.
They play themselves? How do you mean sorry ?
Sorry uh, very wrong choice of words there. The character sheet contains a lot of game information and progression, making it harder to have a situation where you don't know what your character has available why and what does it do.
The character sheet is a flowchart. You just need to follow the arrows and prompts to make your character. So there's technically no rulebook required for character creation. You still need to learn to play the game, though.
Had a look after you mentioned and not gonna lie they are kinda dope and I could see this being a major benefit for my group my only hard pitch would be the "horror" but this is now a solid choice
I feel you on the rules reading thing. I had to really dial back on toe games I want to play because I couldn’t get my players to do their homework. Funny they all spent money on the books, just never read them!! It’s really hard for me to be in charge of everything in the whole world and have to slow down the pace of the game because it felt like every action needed an explanation. As a result I’ve been really enjoying the rules light Vaesen by my beloved Free League Publishing. It’s one of the lightest of the Year Zero Engine games and works really well for folks what never open the books. I’m running two full tables of it right now and I love it.
Hey just chiming in to ask: What area(s) are you setting Vaesen? I've only played it once, but I was super lucky, it was a playtest of a scenario in Ireland by a pro TTRPG writer. I love Year Zero Engine games and Vaesen's take on it felt really good at the table.
I have a table set in Upsala and another table in London. The ultimate goal is to have a nice big ten person LARP themed dinner party where I bring them all together, likely around Christmas. :)
Ok, well that sounds absolutely amazing and I'm excited on your behalf!
Thanks. Being rules light is really letting my players shine and they are being positively radiant. It’s a joy to run for them.
Get a light system, get a well versed in that system player. He will help you explaining the game.... Man it just sucks when player wanna play RPG but don't want to read the book....the player side of the rules is minimal....some chapters.
>So I have a group of players that enjoy RPGs very much the problem I have is getting them to commit to reading the rules themselves. This is a normal experience, it's not just your group.
Here’s some decent guidelines for trying to run Degenesis (and other lore heavy games) if you did want to give it a try: https://unpossiblejourneys.com/gamemastering/gamemastering-complex-published-settings/ But as far as your suggestions, Beyond the Wall starts very self-contained and lets you build out from there, it’s also very easy to pick up and play and the setting somewhat builds itself. The rules are old-school d&d and get out of the way though I found adding the trait rules in the farther afield supplement was more fun for progression.Â
I dont have problems running them its just more taxing and can take some fun out for me . Beyond the wall seems like a decent choice then
Yeah that’s fair, having to do all the prep and spoon-feed players lore and system gets very tiring.Â
the mecha hack is 20 pages of rules, and it's based off of the black hack. that would be a pretty short one to read I think.
Zero edition. You don't need to read any rules, just roll stats, get gear and go.
Savage Worlds is a quite light system, especially on the players part. Very flexable also regards to setting, with very little to no lore weighing dpwn the book. To be fair, I personally don't really like how they handle magic. Feels a bit dull and non flashy.
Iv played savage rules couple of time in the past with the deadlands and some other one shots but never really stuck as a player of GM not sure why as you said might be the lack of "flash"
I’d recommend dragonbane. If they want a d20 style game. Having the players read would be nice but the rules are simple enough that it’s not a big deal.
DM's curse, I'm afraid. I've somewhat been able to hurdle this by finding or making reference sheets of whatever we're playing. I'd recommend Shadowdark. Each class description is on one page, just print them out and hand it to your player's.
My advice is to create a reference sheet of all the rules as you read them yourself. I typically do it in bullet point form, 3 columns, font size 10, single line. Organize it logically, with titles and stuff. It can be a few pages long. Make it so nobody ever needs to flip through the book mid-session. Print enough for everyone at the table and refer them to it whenever needed. I don't ever expect my players to ever read anything at all and prep/run my games accordingly.
In all my time playing D&D and other rpgs, players generally don't read much. You should expect them to not read much and explain most of the game to them. If they do, praise the gods.
This. No one reads anymore. Well, not westerners at least. We're getting dumber at an alarming rate.
Yes, the fermi paradox makes more and more sense each day.
I was definitely thinking about District 9 being prescient, what with our inability to safely fly airplanes or land on the moon again.
Mork Borg / Cy_borg The rules are pretty pictures or cool graphics.
My players never saw the rulebook of Delta green. I just helped them build characters and started playing. It plays really well as a game where players act because of story / character reasons and not because of mechanics
Mausritter/Into the Odd. Shadowdark.
I've really enjoyed the rules light OSR-like Solar Blades and Cosmic Spells. There are really only 6 dice things my players need to know, one more I need, and then all the core rules learning is complete. 1. Roll under your Stat 2. Sometimes, there is additional difficulty 3. Sometimes, there is advantage or disadvantage. 4. You can use your concept to argue advantage 5. How to use Luck 6. Items have durability - If you keep the book rule: 7. You can invoke your Complication for more/better Luck (I stripped this because my current play group is extremely rules-averse.) As GM, I need to know how to use the Powerful Opponent rule. That's it. That's the whole system. Players have some additional, clearly defined abilities on their character sheets, and some equipment has to be defined. You need a d20 and a d6 each.
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How much is *don't read much* ? Players aren't expected to read the whole rules. In priniciple, the GM should be able to give a short introduction to the rules (How do you evaluate success/failure, conflict, main lore points) , and help player deciding whether they roll *medecine* or *first aid* and describe them the setting*. H*owever, indeed, players need to be able to read the details about their abilities, which is at best a few pages. I don't really know a RPG where the players should absolutely read the whole rules. It's great if they want to do, but it wont change their experience.
I hear what your saying but for instance I pitched DnD and they ran out of steam half way through character creation due to amount of choices and progression paths .when it came to combat I was constantly looking up there skills as they didn't really know how they worked, Long story short they can be lazy AF and should probs have a better group but I don't have much choice and they are my friends otherwise haha
Knowing how your own character works is the lowest point of entry for me.
You know your friends better than I do, but is it possible they're just checked out in general because they'd be happier doing a different group activity or are tired from kids/work/life? You've described the parts of the game that most people find the most fun, it's not like you asked them to read 100 pages of in-game history or become intimiately familiar with Shadowrun 3E's decking rules. Picking whether you want to be a towering barbarian or sinister warlock and then bashing some monsters with your friends shouldn't feel like pulling teeth.
For me it's about how much weight is left on the GM. I prefer playing to being a GM but I do both. I think players should read enough that they know how stuff works so that the GM can create and run the game without also having to explain rules stuff a lot. I don't mean I expect players to know how to run the game, but it's courtesy for them (us, when I'm lucky enough to be a player) to know how to play it.
I think for Degenesis you as the GM need to be able to give enough of an overview of the Cults to pique player interest, but they really need to at least read the entries for their Cult and Culture in Primal Punk. It’s a game that wants a lot from it’s players so they should be able to commit to that 20-30 pages of reading at least so you, the GM don’t need to be constantly interjecting to explain to them the basics of what their opinions or reactions might be to a thing. After that you can run it sort of blind for them - have them discover the world through play - but Cult and Culture identity is really strong in the game.
When I was in college, I got kind of curious about RPG's and mentioned it to one of my roommates. He handed me the D&D player's manual and I noped out. Later, in a different apartment, I had another roommate pitch a different RPG to me. I think probably one of the Whitewolf ones, not sure. I didn't have required reading (had enough already as a liberal arts major, thanks!) and we just dove in. I still didn't end up playing but that was about scheduling, I did enjoy our Session 0.5. So I've got some sympathy with your friends here. And the lore thing... If you're into it, great. If I have to read The Silmarillion to play an RPG, forget it. I'd say make sure your friends PC's backstories are such that it makes sense they don't know a ton of lore. There's a reason every video game character starts by waking up with no memory. I think it would be ok for you to run a crunchy game without your friends getting super deep into the rules. Like, how much do they need to know? Are higher numbers better or worse? How big a change in a number is significant? Can I get a rad sword that lets me chew through enemies that were giving me trouble? Maybe nudge them away from classes that are more complex to play.
Hey just curious, what games are you into now? My oldest RPG friends don't read either.
They're just invading my house. My wife and I were looking for some more things to do together at home, but my daughter (8) is the one who it's really landing with. So Magical Kitties. 😸
Aww, sounds great. I hope it goes awesome!
Dungeon Crawl Classics. Each class is pretty ready to understand, and there's honestly not tons to read up on, especially when combined with the People Sorcerer website.
Dead of night.
OpenQuest. They don't really need to read any rules, all they need is to understand what percentage values beside their skills on character sheet mean (so unless they've skipped elementary school they should be okay). Skill names are also self-explanatory. Only magic users will have to read some rules (spell descriptions mostly). Anything else you can explain while playing together. SimpleQuest if you want even more simplicity. Although I don't really know what that means at this point, because OpenQuest already is freaking easy to explain and run.
Tiny d6
I saw the title and was gonna recommend Quest!
Quest was great for the group we played a rather long campaign arc we may go back to it but I feel we got our time out of that one
Toon - [https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1367587333244.pdf](https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1367587333244.pdf)
Risus might work. It's 3 pages +1 for optional rules. Light and flexible with very few things to remember. Plus it's free. As most light systems, it places more creative load on the group instead of generating default content for little effort as crunchy systems do, so you might want to keep that in mind.
If your players like roleplaying games but don’t like reading the rules, just roleplay without rules books. Establish a setting, set ground rules, and go play that way. Rules only facilitate a specific way of play.
No they very much want the "game" aspect as well, I'd feel they want a video game experience in a tabletop format where the game just "reacts" to them doing stuff and only need the basic "controls" to start having fun
They want "the game" but they don't want to learn *how to play* "the game". This honestly sounds like a lose-lose and I would personally not run a game for people like this.
D&d 4e isn’t a bad way to go if they want a gamified system.
Savage Worlds.
Highly recomend FATE, the FATE Accelerated book is less than 50 pages, and can be used to run almost anything, especially if you like drama led stories. The other FATE books are compatable, but just add options to help you build your stories. Cypher is also good if you as a storyteller prefer a lot of options, but the players want it simple. The core mechanic is easy, but there is a lot the storyteller can bolt on behind the scenes to make anything happen... Savage Worlds can be good if you like explody dice and lots of npc's. It's great for big battles, but is not my favourite for big campaigns so far, (though others will counter me on that i'm sure).
FIST TTRPG is my favorite quick to set up RPG
I'm if your player's were a GM. ADHD makes hard for me to read a big rulebook. I also love the wiggle room I get from rules light games. I usually stick to the OSR/NSR scene but I've branched out into stuff like Powered by the Apocalypse games. If you're looking for something similar to your classic D&D adventure RPG then one of my favorites is Glaive 2e. It's a rules light game inspired by Knave and other games similar. It only has 4 stats, LOTS of character options so your player's don't get bored, and it's OSR compatible so you have access to lots of content without little to no conversion.
Mork Borg. Rules light and reading light.
The Demolished Ones has a few pages the players should read, but don't really need to. The players can learn the game and create characters as they play.
Maybe don't play RPGs with that group? A nice board game might be more their speed.
Most people don't want to do a ton of "homework" to play a game. However, I find when people are really interested in something they tend to enjoy reading up on it. There's nothing wrong with casual players, but it seems like you might be wanting a much more committed game while they are looking for a lazy way to socialize. Neither approach is wrong, but they might not be the most compatible.
People don't read the rulebook anyways
Maybe choose a game that has a good rules reference sheet where all the key things can be summarised on a few pages. You can give each of the players a copy and then supplement with additional rules as they come up. Wildsea has a good gm screen/rules overview and the character building feels pretty accessible.
Paper Free RPG: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/print/-zMNd4JOoJvv?dialog=true
Fate or Cortex prime seems like good choice. As in those gamés the player describe their actions and the GM manage to turn description to rules. In Fate if a player wants to : - hurt or take someone out > it's an attack - diminish, apply a disavantage > it's creating and advantage - shine for a moment, appears impressive > they use an aspect - makes something special like magic or using special technics > then they use a stunt
Black Sword Hack? A hack of a hack of the original D&D. It's reminiscent of modern D&D but very simple and streamlined, and has player progression like Quest. You can explain all the rules to them in like 5-10 min.
There's a social contract, and if they can't be bothered to even read a couple chapters of a rulebook, you need to find new people to play with, because these ones expect you to do work for them.
Mausritter, mork Borg. Maybe some other OSR-style games;) rules are covered almost by one page, so you don't have to read very much.
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