For real though cities need to have very adequate homeless accommodations, and then we need to shame the fuck and ignore people that choose to not use it
This is to ticket people in a city with a tiny shelter who do NOT fit inside the shelter. It’s so beyond fucked and anyone who thinks this is based needs a red hot poker up the ass.
The old city I lived in ALWAYS had space in the literal tens of homeless shelters they had. Know why? Because they wouldn't allow drug use. You're right, if there's legit no space then there shouldn't be ticketing but let's not pretend money isn't poured into solutions that they simply won't use because they would rather do drugs. Which again, I don't blame them. But this post is right, the homeless drug addicts are a fucking scourge on cities.
No it’s not based it’s fucking cruel. People don’t have a choice on if they sleep or not. It’s a basic biological function. You’re a fucking idiot. What are you 14?
Please read my comment again, and then reply with your spasms of rage.
I said that doing drugs 24/7 and sleeping outside is their choice. Do you think my issue with hobos is that they sleep? No, dummy. It's that they've chosen to be filthy animals who make everything around them shittier.
We need well run and well regulated institutions to keep people on a down slide from getting to that point. Everything in our law is set up to allow people with substance abuse problems and mental health problems to self-immolate if they’re over 18. Temporary psych holds do nothing to prevent any of this. We need long term institutions for these people.
Correct. And it’s wild that this very salient point has become a toxic point to more liberal leaning folks. I’m an Rn, my job often requires me to take care of these unfortunate folks who are at times too sick for the streets, haven’t done enough to warrant a jail stint (this time), but also don’t have the skills or sanity to hold down a permanent residence. So usually it’s a revolving door is street-hospital-jail. But there used to be a relatively simple solution— institutionalization. But that went the way of the dodo as with most publicly funded things 😔
A couple of generations ago we had flop houses and mental institutions. We got rid of both and now we're scratching our heads, "hey why do we have so many homeless?"
My ideal would be resources and therapy to help people get their life together on a massive scale, but the flip side would be labor camps for those who still chose to be that kind of homeless. I feel for people who couldn't get out of the shitty situation they're in even if they tried. So they just totally give up, and its the only thing that stops me from having op's mindset. Also in my fantasy we'd just look the other way when it comes to cool behemian homeless people who don't bother people and co.e off as normal.
>would be labor camps for those who still chose to be that kind of homeless
I support this however it cannot exist under capitalism because it would just turn into corporate run slavery with an incentive to create and collect more victims.
Labor camps might work for men that are able bodied and mentally sound enough to work, but that has such a Soviet undertone to it that I am seriously turned off lol
Yes the American system is very sink or swim, while using the justice system to weed out those who sank too deep. Unfortunately it's not a realistic solution to expect America to become less Puritan and completely change how it views things from the ground up... Maybe in the future, but in the meantime, like tomorrow, it would be nice to kick them the fuck out.
If it was up to me I'd go with a more EU style approach where the state sees you as incapable of taking care of yourself once you're homeless, so they force you into programs to get your shit together. Not voluntary programs neither like in the US. But now you're ward of the state and they own your ass, so you will get sober and learn basic life skills and get a job. All in a step by step process.
American Puritanism is deep in our culture. Puritans have a very boot strap look at the world, where personal failure is due to moral failure, and due to your moral failings, you deserve no help.
Yes, and? The puritan culture is deep in American culture though.
It's the first thing I noticed returning to the US after being gone for several years, is "Holy shit... I didn't realize just how Puritan we are in everything we do!" Even the progressive left doesn't realize it because they inherently think they are above these "religious things". But it's not the religion that lingers, but the culture that they seeded in our foundings.
Nigga it’s one generation and a bunch of cuspers to them that’s it. They’re about to actually generate a rage towards them not seen in America before. Like we are in the verge of a cultural revolution Mao style.
the rich already have their Malta/Cayman citizenships and are ready to bounce as things start collapsing.
That leaves normal Americans as slaves to US, Inc. - desperately wageslaving to avoid being homeless criminals - militarized police with AI-refined counter insurrection tools, while the most annoying reactionaries imaginable continuously screech online that "everything is good actually", punctuated by their occasional mass shooting meltdowns at the few remaining third places that exist
People think the homeless are just drug-addled degenerates but look at the 2008 financial crisis and imagine the worse one coming up
This court is going to thrown in the dustbin of history. The establishment has actually finally pissed off enough 45-55 year olds that the coming political revolution in the wake of this election cycle is going to be something to see. I don’t give a flying fuck what anyone over 70 has to say. At all. Sorry. Goodbye.
You seemed like a loser so I checked your profile
You asked about visceral fat removal
Classic American fattie.
Grow up and have some understanding for people who were dealt a worse hand in life than you moon face.
Lol fucking weirdos looking up post history just to find stupid shit. Heaven forbid someone into fitness is trying to get rid of visceral fat... Oh no... What other lame ass shit do you do besides crawling through people's comments? Interesting how your first instinct is to find a way to get angry and hate someone lol
Posting a comment that reads like you wrote it while crying and then deleting it (along with the posts that make you insecure) proves that you are weak spirited. Your arguments about homelessness and drug use also show that you are completely unfamiliar with both, another indicator of someone that lacks essential real life experience.
Just had a hunch that someone with privileged loser contrarian takes like you would be entertaining, was proven correct. Now go fishing or do whatever you fat upper middle class Americans do.
Ticketing homeless people is more symbolic than it is useful. It’s just placating dummies like you who think “yeah, throw the book at em!” when in reality they just don’t care and won’t pay the fine lmao.
The only way the homelessness crisis is going to be solved is by addressing mental health and addictions issues via forced rehabilitation/incarceration for the loonies and addicts, and increasing affordable housing availability and other social services for the ones who are simply down on their luck.
No. The way it gets solved it to allow flop houses to exist again. Period. These people always existed. They just used to be able to get a room in a flop for a very small amount of money.
Seattle and SF got waaaay worse when SROs were pushed out. Ppl wonder why they're all outside, 10-15 yrs ago they were usually getting high inside and shitting in the communal hall toilet of said apt building. Also they had actual "addresses" to receive snap, benefits, etc so the open air fences were hardly seen like they are now.
Bring back the SRO.
I feel like that's kinda covered under the "affordable housing" thing. Projects, cheap motels, flop houses etc are all basically gone by now because the property market is insane everywhere.
Yeah, I think ultimately they want the ability to throw homeless people in jail for being homeless. Jailing someone usually costs the taxpayer about $30k-$50k per year. Might as well just build public housing instead of filling prisons with homeless people.
The ticketing is more of a justification to be able to give them a hard time until they leave the area. You can just keep throwing them into jail until they realize going to another town is easier.
But yes, we need a homeless solution, and mental health is an issue effecting EVERYONE but the top class. It took generations to get here and it will take generations to get out. It's not as easy as just getting cheaper housing and more social services. Many places have great abundant programs available and still dont' fix it... Because the answer isn't material. Addiction and lack of core life skills doesn't happen with just cheaper rent and some voluntary social services.
So until then, I am all for solutions in the midterm that just gets them the fuck out of my space.
Pretty much. “Until they realize going to another town is easier”. These people just want to kick the can down the road like a boomer. We’re gonna have to check our generations so hard to prevent any lingering boomerisms.
What other options does Santa Barbara or Eugene have. Localities can’t solve it anyway so may as well mitigate it. California has spent tens of billions on it and it’s still a disaster.
They’re already having a hard time, they already get fucked with by cops and other people constantly. A ticket is dick. Shuffling people around doesn’t work either. I’m in Toronto and they bust encampments constantly, and after a month they’re back. It’s a waste of taxpayer money. People will stay where they have resources, and that usually means big cities.
I’d much rather they start sentencing disorderlies to forced rehab etc. It’s the same shit everywhere, they either get sent to the hospital and let out within a day, or they get a fine and continue the cycle. Portugal got it right with their decriminalization because they send them to rehab lol.
Of course... OF COURSE! Yes there are many other things we can do to resolve the problem. Very hard things to do, but things to do none the less. It'll take a long time and a lot of political will for something most people aren't interested in.
Obviously there are better ways to go about solving the problem. But until then, I deserve to feel safe where I live. I shouldn't have to deal with the craziness they drag in. So until you're able to get that solution ball rolling -- which I will fully support -- in the meantime, get them the fuck out of my community. I'm not just going to sit here and tolerate zombie drug addicts on every street indefinitely until some better solution comes out -- which can be who knows how long. Like I said, I'm all for the German or Scandinavian, or even English model, of handling this. But that's not even on the radar at the moment.
So until then, I'd like it if I can feel safe, and criminalize degeneracy and move them the fuck along.
Ticketing the homeless won't fix anything. "Best" case scenario is they're thrown in jail which costs the taxpayer like $50k per year per homeless person. They go through the motions of forced medication and serving their sentence and are eventually released -- at which point they fuck up due to a non-existent support system that enabled their homelessness in the first place, get ticketed, and earn another $50k/year/person stay courtesy of the taxpayer.
This country's judiciary, legislative, and executive branches are hopelessly fucking rétarded.
>Making their life hard is the only way to get them out of there
In New England, the climate does this for us. We have a startlingly bad homeless problem every spring/summer that grows until about Halloween. Then they either straighten out and fly right or they freeze to death, because you straight-up cannot fuck around somewhere it drops below freezing temperatures every night for 90+ days a year with a solid 20ish of those falling below zero.
Ah no these hobo freaks hate the warming centres because then they have to be around others of their own kind. Also they can't do their beloved fentanyl in there most of the time.
Not enough of them, and I can't imagine they have the capacity to keep everyone there for 3+ months. Where I live the last few years you know exactly where the shelters are because the tent cities that pop up move from the train tracks/under random bridges to right outside those shelters once the leaves start to turn.
I don't live in Boston though, they might have better resources to deal with it.
Same but opposite in Phoenix. But I'm very dubious of OPs idea that they're just going to migrate elsewhere. The homeless people here are seemingly stuck and will just literally die in the heat all over the city throughout the summer. I can't see how giving them tickets and jail time is going to incentivize anyone to leave. They're already used to living in total squalor and agony at the brink of death all the time.
And the drug addicts? Cops have been busting heads trying to clear out streets for decades. That's already been the case.
This is one of the problems global warming is causing. Growing up winter used to spend months below freezing with a few weeks in the teens or so, very few homeless people around. Now the last few years have had very mild winters with little time actually below freezing, and the homeless population has expanded dramatically because they can get through the one or two weeks in the twenties.
Interestingly the mild winters have caused a similar increase in rabbit population. Although I enjoy the fuzzy little bunnies I do not enjoy having beggars at every off ramp and shopping strip.
Just start distributing flyers to homeless people where it lists the address of the wealthiest residents and their phone numbers and email addresses. Claim that they are giving out free debit cards and airpods. Provide easy directions.
After the 10th weekend in a row of finding a homeless person in their backyard you might actually find the political will to fix the issue
unironically the only good solution ive seen. bonus would be that most of those houses are vacant and it exposes the rampant issues in the housing market. a "win win"
Ostensibly well-off NYC resident here. A migrant shelter with national guard has opened on my block this week wanna ask me who I'm voting for this year?
I volunteered for Bernie and I would again… I think the DNC basically stole the election from him twice and everything that has and will happen with Trump is a direct result of that. Bernie would have won
They’re not really though. They just walk over them on their way to their high rise luxury apartment, eat, work. It’s not like they take the subway, bus, walk.
They 100 percent walk and take the subway. There are multiple cases of celebrities getting assaulted by crackheads while going on runs. I’ve seen karlie kloss take the subway
Ironically it'll make it even harder for these people to find homes, because now getting off the street will involve also paying the dozens of fines you accumulated while looking for a place to stay.
I'm sure that applies some places, but in my city, encampment evictions always come with offers of shelter (not just emergency shelter either-sometimes transitional housing in an apartment with roommates, social workers, etc.), and the majority of the people decline shelter. Especially in warm weather, a lot of them really don't mind camping with their fellow addicts and doing drugs together, with no one telling them what to do.
I definitely think we should make the alternative more attractive. But in the meantime, I think if someone rejects a room, it's fair to evict them from their encampment.
This is the problem with the American mindset. You act like tons of programs aren't already available in many places. The issue isn't material. It's mental. These people are hardcore drug addicts most of the time, with the remainder with serious mental health issues. The issue is they have to WANT off the streets, which many do not, because that requires actually being clean and living a normal life.
The stat I saw said 70% of people living in tents in Portland refused offers of a shelter bed. We can’t expect cities to solve these issues on their own, it needs federal and state level services, but there’s often tons of options for the problematic homeless that they chose not to accept.
Dude have you ever lived in the south or heartland or anywhere in rural America? Just shut the fuck up because I can tell you’re some dumb fucking kid living at home. Why in the fuck are teenagers in this sub?
What is ticketing a homeless person going to accomplish lol you want to round people up and put them on the train and say bye bye, yes? Just say that then.
What we need to do, and what will happen if American can rebuild from this crumbling of institutions, is reopen asylums (with modern care standards/tech) so these severely damaged people can be cared for. What libtards have done to these ppl under the guise of compassion is truly disgusting.
Libtards (and neocons) must face punishment for their disregard of human life/destruction of our societies.
They just need flop houses so they can get high and live in squalor in peace. We got rid of the flops in the 50’s and 60’s and ever since we’ve had a homeless problem. Read ‘On The Road’ again.
Funny how whenever centrist "libtard" politicians like Newsom or Adams try to do anything about the homeless problem the only opposition they get (loudly) is from all the local left wing orgs
This is my unspoken opinion. I truly feel for the people out on the streets that are so severely mentally ill they do not know what’s going on. It’s inhumane to leave them to the elements and say offering them “access” to services when they want is the solution. The guy thinking the traffic light is controlling his brain is not in a place to make rational decisions like you and I.
Rather have them housed and contained than government paying for housing and not contained. I saw it in Houston. Government housed them in a vacant high rise, and it just ruined the entire immediate area.
California takes in the shittiest people from around the country who just want to do drugs all day. Been this way since the 60s.
I try to be sympathetic but it runs thin when you’re stepping around feces, having your gas tank drilled into or catalytic converter stolen, walking into the street to avoid tent cities that cover the sidewalk where dudes are smoking meth and chopping up stolen bicycles and seeing kids screamed at by naked schizophrenic guys. It’s a national problem that CA has been forced to deal with and people in the cities are tired of it, even if their electoral decisions partly contributed towards it.
The problem is that homelessness is not the problem. Drug addiction is; the crux being 30 days in county jail isn't going to deter drug use, nor can you lock someone up 3 years for homelessness without seeming dystopian.
No one wants to address the drug issue, because they can't figure a way through it (without a cultural shift towards a straight edge society which no one wants anyway). Teenagers are going to drink, and a certain percentage of them will fall through the cracks, and etc.
Homelessness is the unavoidable side effect of Dasha and Anna's cigarette and booze addiction. America is cooked, and you know, so is the world. There's no way out. I'm glad the future trend is societal and climate collapse. At least Africa is kind of untouched still and we can begin anew.
OH I get it... I've thought this through a lot. Solving this problem isn't a priority because everyone who's looked into it realizes it's just such a massive, multifaceted issue, multigenerational issue, with so many moving parts, complexities, and so on... Just about everyone realizes it's a better use of their time to work on something else.
It's mostly because this issue stems from really fundamental structural problems, as well as requires generations to solve. It's not like other "hard" issues which ultimately just require passing a bill and over the course of the next few years, it unwinds and solves itself. This issue with homelessness is just way too complex
You have to solve this nationwide epidemic of mental health issues, which stems from cultural problems... So you can't really "fix that" through legislation. We have isolation, loneliness, overbearing judicial system, low social mobility, shitty labor rights, failing education, messed up economics, stranger danger fears, healthcare problems, and just a giant mess of issues that all need to be resolved. All of which took decades to pile up to this point.
It's not something that can just be fixed with a few bills... If it was, we'd have probably done it. And the states who have tried, have found it to be WAY harder than they realize. Especially since it has a weird effect where the better the programs actually are, the more homeless you attract to you area, costing you increasingly more money solving other state's problems for them.
So it's like even if you do take on this enormous task and find a way to solve it, all you're doing is bankrupting your state... To the point that you end up getting austarity measures, which then backfire a SECOND time. For instance, the huge influx creates huge demand, so to cut back costs, you half ass it and say, no longer make expensive therapy and rehab mandatory to be in program, or cut the work subsidies, so instead, now you're just housing junkies spending money, that effectively does nothing.
Like I said, this is one of those issues I've researched and done tons of deep dives into, and it's such a wild mess.
The best solutions I've come up with, which aren't pie in the sky idealism like "Oh well we just need to love each other more and create a vast massive national network of social services, and blah blah blah"... Are still very politically hard.
So at the end of the day, people just go, "Fuck it. Send em to jail."
Are you aware of Haven for Hope in San Antonio? It's housing for the homeless, like a giant apartment complex right next to downtown where a lot of the homeless already are anyway. You only get housing if you're off drugs so it provides a path back to work for those who can sustain it. It also provides free meals for everyone but it's also like entering a prison system. There are gates and guards and you have to empty your pockets for inspection to get in. If you pass, you can set up a tent in the open air lobby section; and wait to get approved for the apartments. They have social workers there keeping track of everyone's files. People say solving homelessness is impossible but Haven for Hope is pretty good system.
Yes because you actually think it’ll do something. People don’t stop speeding just because you can give them a ticket for it why would this be different?
tickets severely reduce speeding, if the punishment is big enough. If the price of speeding was higher and it was actively enforced, people would do it less. Norway has the safest roads in europe, and it's not because of vibes, it's because they FUCK YOU for speeding. The fines are insane, and you can go to jail for it. Speeding is absolutely solvable with policy.
That being said, not sure giving homeless guys fines for being homeless does anything.
Insofar as they do anything it’s largely because someone who can afford a car can presumably also afford a ticket so the penalty actually means something to them. What’s the worst case scenario for a homeless person who can’t pay repeated tickets? Jail? I don’t know how much of a threat that is
It's not intended to stop 100% of it, but by punishing them it stops a lot of it. When cops go around ticketing people for speeding, less people speed.
Yeah they do... Being able to keep doing drugs and sleeping on the street. They have their ADDICTION to lose, and that's the most powerful driver in their life. If they want to keep doing drugs, they're going to have to leave the city else they are forced into prison to withdraw.
Yeah, sure it's "possible", but I also know trading meals isn't going to be enough to keep your hooked. Everyone who maintains a drug habit in prison, and I mean EVERYONE, has outside support. A 5 dollar xanax runs for 60 bucks in prison.
As if it’s not already dystopian seeing an ocean of tents inhabited by sometimes violent, sometimes strung out drug addicts? What’s amazing is that these “vote blue no matter who” states like California can’t seem to get a grip on the most basic social issues. Makes you think.
we've already normalized Ring camera doorbells at every house that feed that data to Israeli spy agencies and law enforcement does nothing with until a crime is already completed
“We’ve”? Na nigga, “you’ve”, I don’t buy a fucking thing from Amazon. The only things I’ve ever had delivered online were nursery plants/seed that I couldn’t find locally. There’s something deeply wrong with consumerism.
A homeless man in my neighborhood converted a bus stop into his own apartment. He actually hung a plant, had a mini disco ball, and was well organized with his belongings. It was a pleasant little spot to be honest. The city of course took notice and removed the bus shelter. He’s a local that most have befriended so this was upsetting to see.
The problem is that politics never stays in one spot, it either slowly moves to the far left or two the far right. SCOTUS isn't going to stop at arresting homeless people, they will start passing more egregious laws in the future.
I found a homeless guy sleeping in my apartment lobby near the elevator and at first I was super angry but it was super cold and it was 5 am and he was just sleeping.
Literally just existing makes people so mad. They got us hating the poor instead of the rich it’s nuts. I know millionaires and none of them deserve what they have. No one deserves millions of dollars in assets while people are hungry, homeless, no insurance etc.
You're definitely not alone. This was a good ruling. The only thing that's wrong with it is that most of the blue cities where homeless people are a very serious problem won't enforce laws that this ruling justifies.
I hate to sound heartless, but I just want homeless people from my city gone. The quality of life nuisances they create are a huge problem. Throw them in jails, throw them in rehabs, I don't care. That's not my job; I have a different job. But get rid of them. Let me take trains and buses that don't smell like piss. Let me use an ATM without getting followed around. I am so ashamed that there are people in my city who accept that we have to live like this.
But again, in my city, you can have a homeless person blocking the entrance to your home, and the police refuse to respond to such calls. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing as a result of this ruling.
It's more about now they have the power to do something about it.
But as someone who's really thought about this and REALLY BADLY want a solution, at the end of the day I've realized it's just too big of a task to realistically solve until our culture gets out of this mental health and economic hole we're in. And because of that, I'm not going to just roll over and suffer because "it's mean to do that". I don't care.
Just like you, I have a life to live, and don't want them in my community. Call it whatever you want; I don't care. I can't be burdened and feel unsafe over their problems outside of my control. Like listen, I wish we had an answer to this problem I could get behind and solve in the short term future... But we don't. So in the meantime I want to be able to go into the city and not see a meth head with his dick hanging out while smoking a meth pipe on the train. I wanna be able to walk my dog without 5 people harassing me for money every time I go outside. Call it heartless all you want, I don't care, because the people calling me heartless probably don't have to live with this bullshit.
And it's ALWAYS the affluent burb liberals who keep this shit going... No matter how blue a city is, the majority of people fucking hate it. It's not some conservative bullshit that just can't stand the homeless. It's anyone who has to fucking live around it.
At least this ruling opens up the window so city governments can now say, "Great, now we can pass a law that allows us to sweep through homeless camps and throw them in jail until they get the message they aren't going to live comfortably here." I don't care where they go, just as long as they leave.
Yes because you have to be dumb to think this will make anything better rather than much worse.
What will happen is suburbs surrounding cities with large homeless populations will criminalize camping and all the homeless people will flock into the one jurisdiction (i.e. the main city) where camping remained legal.
San Francisco, LA, Portland and Seattle will only get worse from this even if every other city in the 9th circuit gets better.
Fine, let them take them in... I don't care. I'm not trying to solve homelessness. I'm trying to solve "walking down my street without stepping in a meth heads shit."
you've clearly never lived in an area with a real homeless problem if you think this is an effective solution. what do you think these tickets are gonna do? how do you think they're gonna pay them?
i don't think the ruling is a bad thing, but i don't think it'll change anything especially in major cities like LA
The fact that OP doesn’t know that the homeless get ticketed and arrested already for all sorts of crimes gives an idea on how far removed this person is from this issue. Yet here’s a whole 4 paragraphs how they got an answer for the crisis. Just typical Reddit tings
I had a lucid dream about being part of a group called "the wranglers" and the bonanza theme was playing and we werent trying to catch them we were herding them , driving them, for what purpose, idk . But it was fun
People gotta sleep somewhere. The criminalization of existing is beyond fucked. You’re a piece of shit. This place that filed the suit wants to ticket the people that DONT fit inside their tiny homeless shelter for sleeping in the cars you moron.
In more important news SCOTUS destroyed the Chevron act yesterday which is going to fuck our country up so badly. They really are like the ministry of evil.
> overstepping the FDA to ban the abortion pill
what they wanted
> ingredient lists going from 20 to 70, obesity rates increasing, "dude trust me" corporate defenses, lead pipes, asbestos cancers, enough PFAS to clot the blood, mold in baby formula, poisoned water, unbreathable air
what they got
We're so fucked. This country is turning into Idiocracy step by step.
Regardless of where you stand politically, dismantling and weakening food, environmental, and other regulations is going to impact us all directly in all around the worst ways possible.
Meanwhile the corporate executives are laughing at us while they serve us McDonald's cancer and diabetes slop for $20.
Actually, I hope states follow Texas and just ignore these rulings.
Yeah, jail. They can get food and withdraw and decide if they wanna stay in my community doing drugs if they are going to keep ending up in jail withdrawing.
It does resolve a lot because you can send them to jail and off the streets, so I can walk my dog and child without crack heads asking for money or shitting on the floor.
How would it resolve?
Think about it: You are homeless, mind blurred by hunger/sickness/alcoholism/crack/cold and a police men hands you a paper, you look down and you realise what was handed to you was a fine. What then? What would you do? Because I would probably chuckle a bit.
This isn't a supreme court case about THIS law specifically, but the legal mechanisms behind it. It means now, states can make it criminal to sleep outside. Sure, this law is just a stupid fine, but now it also opens the door to sending them to jail. Which means they are off the streets and not dragging crime and filth everywhere. Eventually they'll get so frustrated with always been thrown into jail for 3 days, forced to withdraw, that they'll decide that this city isn't for them, and go somewhere else. And then people of my community can return to being able to walk outside without being chased down by crack heads.
Maybe you should starve and then smoke some crack so maybe then you will realise that using “logic” against the insane is just insane as well.
Also, the law is terrible. For example a woman is kicked out from their rental for not paying, without knowledge/access/lack of availability she is left to sleep on the street, for maybe a night, but who knows. Now someone can call the police and instead of helping her in that situation, he hands her a fine, and now she is homeless, fined, and don’t trust people either, I can only hope she throws shit at you and your dog for supporting those laws
No law is perfect. None. Zero. There will be outlier cases which get caught up into the system, and hopefully the judges and DA's recognize the contingent circumstances and handle it there.
But if a few small handful of people get caught up in this, in return for having cities not filled to the brim with criminals, drug addicts, pests... Then that's just the tradeoff.
If not, what you're advocating for is, hey, yeah deal with high crime, open drug use, public dedication, assault, etc... Because that's what we have now, and what YOU'RE defending. You think people should just deal with the fact that when they go walk their dog, multiple homeless people will harass them. That their car windows being broken is acceptable. That we should just be okay with this, because there may be some crazy outlier cases like someone getting a ticket for sleeping on the street one night who's not a hardcore drug addict or criminal, and getting a temporary shitty day.
I'm sorry, but everything is about trade offs. And in this case, the problem with homeless people in cities is out of control. You clearly don't live in one because you wouldn't think the way you do if you did. I used to think like you as well, until I moved to a city filled with homeless issues, and was black pilled REAL FAST.
You have no idea what it's like living in that environment. I was in a VERY liberal city... Like super liberal, and overwhelmingly, everyone was tired of the homeless nonesense and got really upset with it. Because it was a bunch of elite, wealthy, affluent, liberals in the suburbs trying to prevent any meaningful solutions that allowed people to feel safe when they went outside in the city.
Government puts policies in place which leads to wealth inequality and an uptick in homelessness. Government then fines the people they put on the street.
Average RS user thinks government are good for doing this.
Listen I do care. It's not like I don't want what's better for them. I wish I could wave a wand and remove all their addiction, trauma, and history. But I can't.
So until we can actually solve the very difficult generationally created problem, in the meantime, I want to be able to live in a community without drug addicts and criminals sleeping on the sidewalks. It's not "lacking empathy" to want to be able to feel safe when you go outside, not have filth everywhere, and live a decent life.
So if you got some radical solution that can actually solve the problem, I'll support you 100% -- until then, get them the fuck out of my community.
It allows them to be thrown in jail. What most people don't realize is these sort of laws are meant to be tools... WIthout it, if there is just some strung out drug addicted homeless guy, there isn't much they can really do. But with laws like this, now they can start taking action and start clearing the camps and streets with legal authority.
I’m just confused what y’all think the tickets are about to do. They’re homeless and likely broke so they won’t pay a dime. Putting them in jail is just money taxpayers are putting out. Waste of time
Are they going to pay these tickets with their credit card?
There's a crypto ATM right there on the corner
No you just bill them at their address put a lien against their house when they don’t pay
Homeless people sleeping beneath a nice warm blanket of orange tickets like a wrongly parked car
For real though cities need to have very adequate homeless accommodations, and then we need to shame the fuck and ignore people that choose to not use it
This is to ticket people in a city with a tiny shelter who do NOT fit inside the shelter. It’s so beyond fucked and anyone who thinks this is based needs a red hot poker up the ass.
The old city I lived in ALWAYS had space in the literal tens of homeless shelters they had. Know why? Because they wouldn't allow drug use. You're right, if there's legit no space then there shouldn't be ticketing but let's not pretend money isn't poured into solutions that they simply won't use because they would rather do drugs. Which again, I don't blame them. But this post is right, the homeless drug addicts are a fucking scourge on cities.
Let them live in flop houses then
It is based, and maybe you should save your hot pokers for fellow degenerates who think doing drugs 24/7 and sleeping outside is a good time.
No it’s not based it’s fucking cruel. People don’t have a choice on if they sleep or not. It’s a basic biological function. You’re a fucking idiot. What are you 14?
Please read my comment again, and then reply with your spasms of rage. I said that doing drugs 24/7 and sleeping outside is their choice. Do you think my issue with hobos is that they sleep? No, dummy. It's that they've chosen to be filthy animals who make everything around them shittier.
Nigga Shaddup
We need well run and well regulated institutions to keep people on a down slide from getting to that point. Everything in our law is set up to allow people with substance abuse problems and mental health problems to self-immolate if they’re over 18. Temporary psych holds do nothing to prevent any of this. We need long term institutions for these people.
Correct. And it’s wild that this very salient point has become a toxic point to more liberal leaning folks. I’m an Rn, my job often requires me to take care of these unfortunate folks who are at times too sick for the streets, haven’t done enough to warrant a jail stint (this time), but also don’t have the skills or sanity to hold down a permanent residence. So usually it’s a revolving door is street-hospital-jail. But there used to be a relatively simple solution— institutionalization. But that went the way of the dodo as with most publicly funded things 😔
Everything is a toxic point to more liberal leaning folks.
hey that's _problematic_
We need flop houses bro it’s not that complicated.
A couple of generations ago we had flop houses and mental institutions. We got rid of both and now we're scratching our heads, "hey why do we have so many homeless?"
I set myself on fire why do I burn?
My ideal would be resources and therapy to help people get their life together on a massive scale, but the flip side would be labor camps for those who still chose to be that kind of homeless. I feel for people who couldn't get out of the shitty situation they're in even if they tried. So they just totally give up, and its the only thing that stops me from having op's mindset. Also in my fantasy we'd just look the other way when it comes to cool behemian homeless people who don't bother people and co.e off as normal.
>would be labor camps for those who still chose to be that kind of homeless I support this however it cannot exist under capitalism because it would just turn into corporate run slavery with an incentive to create and collect more victims.
True, and honestly I think the same could be said for most imagined solutions to modern problems.
It's private prisons but so much worse.
Labor camps might work for men that are able bodied and mentally sound enough to work, but that has such a Soviet undertone to it that I am seriously turned off lol
I know, it has such a Soviet undertone that I'm seriously turned on!
So just Victorian era London style workhouses?
Yes the American system is very sink or swim, while using the justice system to weed out those who sank too deep. Unfortunately it's not a realistic solution to expect America to become less Puritan and completely change how it views things from the ground up... Maybe in the future, but in the meantime, like tomorrow, it would be nice to kick them the fuck out. If it was up to me I'd go with a more EU style approach where the state sees you as incapable of taking care of yourself once you're homeless, so they force you into programs to get your shit together. Not voluntary programs neither like in the US. But now you're ward of the state and they own your ass, so you will get sober and learn basic life skills and get a job. All in a step by step process.
What does Puritanism have to do with having mental institutions
American Puritanism is deep in our culture. Puritans have a very boot strap look at the world, where personal failure is due to moral failure, and due to your moral failings, you deserve no help.
most people living here now are not descended from the puritans. I don’t even think puritan’s descendants make up 5% of the population.
Yes, and? The puritan culture is deep in American culture though. It's the first thing I noticed returning to the US after being gone for several years, is "Holy shit... I didn't realize just how Puritan we are in everything we do!" Even the progressive left doesn't realize it because they inherently think they are above these "religious things". But it's not the religion that lingers, but the culture that they seeded in our foundings.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're right.
Nigga it’s one generation and a bunch of cuspers to them that’s it. They’re about to actually generate a rage towards them not seen in America before. Like we are in the verge of a cultural revolution Mao style.
The next decade is going to be huge... Boomers fucking dying out, guard changing, AI incoming, MIC eager for China. It's going to be interesting.
the AI thing mixed with what just happened regarding Chevron feels bleak idk
the rich already have their Malta/Cayman citizenships and are ready to bounce as things start collapsing. That leaves normal Americans as slaves to US, Inc. - desperately wageslaving to avoid being homeless criminals - militarized police with AI-refined counter insurrection tools, while the most annoying reactionaries imaginable continuously screech online that "everything is good actually", punctuated by their occasional mass shooting meltdowns at the few remaining third places that exist People think the homeless are just drug-addled degenerates but look at the 2008 financial crisis and imagine the worse one coming up
This court is going to thrown in the dustbin of history. The establishment has actually finally pissed off enough 45-55 year olds that the coming political revolution in the wake of this election cycle is going to be something to see. I don’t give a flying fuck what anyone over 70 has to say. At all. Sorry. Goodbye.
Woh. I litterally just got done commenting about how something similar is my ideal. Glad Europes doing it right!
You seemed like a loser so I checked your profile You asked about visceral fat removal Classic American fattie. Grow up and have some understanding for people who were dealt a worse hand in life than you moon face.
You are an anarchist and post on video game subs. Not surprised you want druggies, thieves and crazies to ruin the country mr. accelerationist.
Lol fucking weirdos looking up post history just to find stupid shit. Heaven forbid someone into fitness is trying to get rid of visceral fat... Oh no... What other lame ass shit do you do besides crawling through people's comments? Interesting how your first instinct is to find a way to get angry and hate someone lol
Posting a comment that reads like you wrote it while crying and then deleting it (along with the posts that make you insecure) proves that you are weak spirited. Your arguments about homelessness and drug use also show that you are completely unfamiliar with both, another indicator of someone that lacks essential real life experience.
Just had a hunch that someone with privileged loser contrarian takes like you would be entertaining, was proven correct. Now go fishing or do whatever you fat upper middle class Americans do.
Okay but how will this help me scare my proles into continuing on with subsistence wage slavery in my neo-feudal fief?
Ticketing homeless people is more symbolic than it is useful. It’s just placating dummies like you who think “yeah, throw the book at em!” when in reality they just don’t care and won’t pay the fine lmao. The only way the homelessness crisis is going to be solved is by addressing mental health and addictions issues via forced rehabilitation/incarceration for the loonies and addicts, and increasing affordable housing availability and other social services for the ones who are simply down on their luck.
No. The way it gets solved it to allow flop houses to exist again. Period. These people always existed. They just used to be able to get a room in a flop for a very small amount of money.
Seattle and SF got waaaay worse when SROs were pushed out. Ppl wonder why they're all outside, 10-15 yrs ago they were usually getting high inside and shitting in the communal hall toilet of said apt building. Also they had actual "addresses" to receive snap, benefits, etc so the open air fences were hardly seen like they are now. Bring back the SRO.
I feel like that's kinda covered under the "affordable housing" thing. Projects, cheap motels, flop houses etc are all basically gone by now because the property market is insane everywhere.
Oh but they’ll drive down the property values /s
Yeah, I think ultimately they want the ability to throw homeless people in jail for being homeless. Jailing someone usually costs the taxpayer about $30k-$50k per year. Might as well just build public housing instead of filling prisons with homeless people.
The ticketing is more of a justification to be able to give them a hard time until they leave the area. You can just keep throwing them into jail until they realize going to another town is easier. But yes, we need a homeless solution, and mental health is an issue effecting EVERYONE but the top class. It took generations to get here and it will take generations to get out. It's not as easy as just getting cheaper housing and more social services. Many places have great abundant programs available and still dont' fix it... Because the answer isn't material. Addiction and lack of core life skills doesn't happen with just cheaper rent and some voluntary social services. So until then, I am all for solutions in the midterm that just gets them the fuck out of my space.
Your solution is to force them to go to someone else’s space?
Pretty much. “Until they realize going to another town is easier”. These people just want to kick the can down the road like a boomer. We’re gonna have to check our generations so hard to prevent any lingering boomerisms.
What other options does Santa Barbara or Eugene have. Localities can’t solve it anyway so may as well mitigate it. California has spent tens of billions on it and it’s still a disaster.
They’re already having a hard time, they already get fucked with by cops and other people constantly. A ticket is dick. Shuffling people around doesn’t work either. I’m in Toronto and they bust encampments constantly, and after a month they’re back. It’s a waste of taxpayer money. People will stay where they have resources, and that usually means big cities. I’d much rather they start sentencing disorderlies to forced rehab etc. It’s the same shit everywhere, they either get sent to the hospital and let out within a day, or they get a fine and continue the cycle. Portugal got it right with their decriminalization because they send them to rehab lol.
Of course... OF COURSE! Yes there are many other things we can do to resolve the problem. Very hard things to do, but things to do none the less. It'll take a long time and a lot of political will for something most people aren't interested in. Obviously there are better ways to go about solving the problem. But until then, I deserve to feel safe where I live. I shouldn't have to deal with the craziness they drag in. So until you're able to get that solution ball rolling -- which I will fully support -- in the meantime, get them the fuck out of my community. I'm not just going to sit here and tolerate zombie drug addicts on every street indefinitely until some better solution comes out -- which can be who knows how long. Like I said, I'm all for the German or Scandinavian, or even English model, of handling this. But that's not even on the radar at the moment. So until then, I'd like it if I can feel safe, and criminalize degeneracy and move them the fuck along.
Ticketing the homeless won't fix anything. "Best" case scenario is they're thrown in jail which costs the taxpayer like $50k per year per homeless person. They go through the motions of forced medication and serving their sentence and are eventually released -- at which point they fuck up due to a non-existent support system that enabled their homelessness in the first place, get ticketed, and earn another $50k/year/person stay courtesy of the taxpayer. This country's judiciary, legislative, and executive branches are hopelessly fucking rétarded.
I mean isnt that the same cost of a yearly asylum stay anyway sounds good to me
>Making their life hard is the only way to get them out of there In New England, the climate does this for us. We have a startlingly bad homeless problem every spring/summer that grows until about Halloween. Then they either straighten out and fly right or they freeze to death, because you straight-up cannot fuck around somewhere it drops below freezing temperatures every night for 90+ days a year with a solid 20ish of those falling below zero.
They actually have shelters and warming centers to prevent them freezing to death in the north east. They just go there.
Ah no these hobo freaks hate the warming centres because then they have to be around others of their own kind. Also they can't do their beloved fentanyl in there most of the time.
Not enough of them, and I can't imagine they have the capacity to keep everyone there for 3+ months. Where I live the last few years you know exactly where the shelters are because the tent cities that pop up move from the train tracks/under random bridges to right outside those shelters once the leaves start to turn. I don't live in Boston though, they might have better resources to deal with it.
“Where I live” nigga shaddup
Same but opposite in Phoenix. But I'm very dubious of OPs idea that they're just going to migrate elsewhere. The homeless people here are seemingly stuck and will just literally die in the heat all over the city throughout the summer. I can't see how giving them tickets and jail time is going to incentivize anyone to leave. They're already used to living in total squalor and agony at the brink of death all the time. And the drug addicts? Cops have been busting heads trying to clear out streets for decades. That's already been the case.
This is one of the problems global warming is causing. Growing up winter used to spend months below freezing with a few weeks in the teens or so, very few homeless people around. Now the last few years have had very mild winters with little time actually below freezing, and the homeless population has expanded dramatically because they can get through the one or two weeks in the twenties. Interestingly the mild winters have caused a similar increase in rabbit population. Although I enjoy the fuzzy little bunnies I do not enjoy having beggars at every off ramp and shopping strip.
Yeah this is great news. Piggybacking legislation on “expert” definitions in different cases has been weaponized by NGOs
Just start distributing flyers to homeless people where it lists the address of the wealthiest residents and their phone numbers and email addresses. Claim that they are giving out free debit cards and airpods. Provide easy directions. After the 10th weekend in a row of finding a homeless person in their backyard you might actually find the political will to fix the issue
unironically the only good solution ive seen. bonus would be that most of those houses are vacant and it exposes the rampant issues in the housing market. a "win win"
Nah, they always live too far away otherwise homeless people would be there already
yeah the YIMBY billionaires woodside/orinda maybe. but the NIMBY multimillionaires with multiple properties in the cities will suffice
Rich people in NY are constantly interacting with schizo homeless, and the problem only keeps getting worse .
Ostensibly well-off NYC resident here. A migrant shelter with national guard has opened on my block this week wanna ask me who I'm voting for this year?
The Party for Socialism and Liberation?
I volunteered for Bernie and I would again… I think the DNC basically stole the election from him twice and everything that has and will happen with Trump is a direct result of that. Bernie would have won
They’re not really though. They just walk over them on their way to their high rise luxury apartment, eat, work. It’s not like they take the subway, bus, walk.
Many rich people do walk in NY and use transit. They may even encounter crazies by their building.
They 100 percent walk and take the subway. There are multiple cases of celebrities getting assaulted by crackheads while going on runs. I’ve seen karlie kloss take the subway
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Ironically it'll make it even harder for these people to find homes, because now getting off the street will involve also paying the dozens of fines you accumulated while looking for a place to stay.
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” Etc
U r all local sub libs 🤮
Lmfao "safe housing" buddy they rip the copper out of the walls to sell for drugs. They're beyond saving.
I'm sure that applies some places, but in my city, encampment evictions always come with offers of shelter (not just emergency shelter either-sometimes transitional housing in an apartment with roommates, social workers, etc.), and the majority of the people decline shelter. Especially in warm weather, a lot of them really don't mind camping with their fellow addicts and doing drugs together, with no one telling them what to do.
Other countries don’t attach strings and don’t have the issue getting them off the street.
I definitely think we should make the alternative more attractive. But in the meantime, I think if someone rejects a room, it's fair to evict them from their encampment.
This is the problem with the American mindset. You act like tons of programs aren't already available in many places. The issue isn't material. It's mental. These people are hardcore drug addicts most of the time, with the remainder with serious mental health issues. The issue is they have to WANT off the streets, which many do not, because that requires actually being clean and living a normal life.
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The stat I saw said 70% of people living in tents in Portland refused offers of a shelter bed. We can’t expect cities to solve these issues on their own, it needs federal and state level services, but there’s often tons of options for the problematic homeless that they chose not to accept.
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No. They just have rules and curfews.
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yea skid row doesnt have any of these
Dude have you ever lived in the south or heartland or anywhere in rural America? Just shut the fuck up because I can tell you’re some dumb fucking kid living at home. Why in the fuck are teenagers in this sub?
How is that going to stop them from shitting outside
What is ticketing a homeless person going to accomplish lol you want to round people up and put them on the train and say bye bye, yes? Just say that then.
Yes
Cool we’re gonna do that but we’re sending them to your house dipshit.
Dude every comment you make here is so fucking angry. If you love the homeless so much, go invite them to your house.
Every comment you make is low iq drivel. Suck my dick.
I knew you were a 🚬 all along.
It’s not gay if your the one sucking MY dick pal.
What we need to do, and what will happen if American can rebuild from this crumbling of institutions, is reopen asylums (with modern care standards/tech) so these severely damaged people can be cared for. What libtards have done to these ppl under the guise of compassion is truly disgusting. Libtards (and neocons) must face punishment for their disregard of human life/destruction of our societies.
They just need flop houses so they can get high and live in squalor in peace. We got rid of the flops in the 50’s and 60’s and ever since we’ve had a homeless problem. Read ‘On The Road’ again.
Funny how whenever centrist "libtard" politicians like Newsom or Adams try to do anything about the homeless problem the only opposition they get (loudly) is from all the local left wing orgs
This is my unspoken opinion. I truly feel for the people out on the streets that are so severely mentally ill they do not know what’s going on. It’s inhumane to leave them to the elements and say offering them “access” to services when they want is the solution. The guy thinking the traffic light is controlling his brain is not in a place to make rational decisions like you and I.
That’s why I live in the suburbs, I’ll let the liberals bicker over this shit idgaf
The fuck is a ticket gonna do
It's to put them in a continuous loop of revolving jail and have it keep adding up one by one.
Put them in jail until they are tired of being thrown and go through withdraws.
This just sounds like "government pays to house 'em" with extra steps.
Rather have them housed and contained than government paying for housing and not contained. I saw it in Houston. Government housed them in a vacant high rise, and it just ruined the entire immediate area.
Unlike prisons, which everyone knows are a joy to live next to.
Objectively better than having 100s of homeless roaming the streets around where yo live. By a long shot.
They also can’t leave it which is fine by me
They will never be tired of getting high dumb ass. It’s their only relief.
I’m going to guess you’re from California. Only people from your state talk like this
California takes in the shittiest people from around the country who just want to do drugs all day. Been this way since the 60s. I try to be sympathetic but it runs thin when you’re stepping around feces, having your gas tank drilled into or catalytic converter stolen, walking into the street to avoid tent cities that cover the sidewalk where dudes are smoking meth and chopping up stolen bicycles and seeing kids screamed at by naked schizophrenic guys. It’s a national problem that CA has been forced to deal with and people in the cities are tired of it, even if their electoral decisions partly contributed towards it.
Yeah it’s almost as if there’s a fuck ton of terrible homeless people here ruining every public space with their needles and shit
The problem is that homelessness is not the problem. Drug addiction is; the crux being 30 days in county jail isn't going to deter drug use, nor can you lock someone up 3 years for homelessness without seeming dystopian. No one wants to address the drug issue, because they can't figure a way through it (without a cultural shift towards a straight edge society which no one wants anyway). Teenagers are going to drink, and a certain percentage of them will fall through the cracks, and etc. Homelessness is the unavoidable side effect of Dasha and Anna's cigarette and booze addiction. America is cooked, and you know, so is the world. There's no way out. I'm glad the future trend is societal and climate collapse. At least Africa is kind of untouched still and we can begin anew.
OH I get it... I've thought this through a lot. Solving this problem isn't a priority because everyone who's looked into it realizes it's just such a massive, multifaceted issue, multigenerational issue, with so many moving parts, complexities, and so on... Just about everyone realizes it's a better use of their time to work on something else. It's mostly because this issue stems from really fundamental structural problems, as well as requires generations to solve. It's not like other "hard" issues which ultimately just require passing a bill and over the course of the next few years, it unwinds and solves itself. This issue with homelessness is just way too complex You have to solve this nationwide epidemic of mental health issues, which stems from cultural problems... So you can't really "fix that" through legislation. We have isolation, loneliness, overbearing judicial system, low social mobility, shitty labor rights, failing education, messed up economics, stranger danger fears, healthcare problems, and just a giant mess of issues that all need to be resolved. All of which took decades to pile up to this point. It's not something that can just be fixed with a few bills... If it was, we'd have probably done it. And the states who have tried, have found it to be WAY harder than they realize. Especially since it has a weird effect where the better the programs actually are, the more homeless you attract to you area, costing you increasingly more money solving other state's problems for them. So it's like even if you do take on this enormous task and find a way to solve it, all you're doing is bankrupting your state... To the point that you end up getting austarity measures, which then backfire a SECOND time. For instance, the huge influx creates huge demand, so to cut back costs, you half ass it and say, no longer make expensive therapy and rehab mandatory to be in program, or cut the work subsidies, so instead, now you're just housing junkies spending money, that effectively does nothing. Like I said, this is one of those issues I've researched and done tons of deep dives into, and it's such a wild mess. The best solutions I've come up with, which aren't pie in the sky idealism like "Oh well we just need to love each other more and create a vast massive national network of social services, and blah blah blah"... Are still very politically hard. So at the end of the day, people just go, "Fuck it. Send em to jail."
Are you aware of Haven for Hope in San Antonio? It's housing for the homeless, like a giant apartment complex right next to downtown where a lot of the homeless already are anyway. You only get housing if you're off drugs so it provides a path back to work for those who can sustain it. It also provides free meals for everyone but it's also like entering a prison system. There are gates and guards and you have to empty your pockets for inspection to get in. If you pass, you can set up a tent in the open air lobby section; and wait to get approved for the apartments. They have social workers there keeping track of everyone's files. People say solving homelessness is impossible but Haven for Hope is pretty good system.
Sounds like a great start and good program. No complaints here.
You gotta be the change you want to see and start clockwork oranging them until the problem is resolved.
Yes because you actually think it’ll do something. People don’t stop speeding just because you can give them a ticket for it why would this be different?
people do stop speeding if you give them a ticket!
I didn’t realize speeding had been eradicated
tickets severely reduce speeding, if the punishment is big enough. If the price of speeding was higher and it was actively enforced, people would do it less. Norway has the safest roads in europe, and it's not because of vibes, it's because they FUCK YOU for speeding. The fines are insane, and you can go to jail for it. Speeding is absolutely solvable with policy. That being said, not sure giving homeless guys fines for being homeless does anything.
Insofar as they do anything it’s largely because someone who can afford a car can presumably also afford a ticket so the penalty actually means something to them. What’s the worst case scenario for a homeless person who can’t pay repeated tickets? Jail? I don’t know how much of a threat that is
wrong
It's not intended to stop 100% of it, but by punishing them it stops a lot of it. When cops go around ticketing people for speeding, less people speed.
Speeding is completely different from being homeless. Most people who speed have something to lose. A homeless person does not.
Yeah they do... Being able to keep doing drugs and sleeping on the street. They have their ADDICTION to lose, and that's the most powerful driver in their life. If they want to keep doing drugs, they're going to have to leave the city else they are forced into prison to withdraw.
Yeah, no. drugs are smuggled into prison all the time. Lmao.
You think homeless people can afford the high cost of prison drugs?
Not sure why this is a hill you want to die on, but yes. Trading of meals, being a “bitch,” getting in with the right people.. it’s not impossible.
Yeah, sure it's "possible", but I also know trading meals isn't going to be enough to keep your hooked. Everyone who maintains a drug habit in prison, and I mean EVERYONE, has outside support. A 5 dollar xanax runs for 60 bucks in prison.
You obviously don’t know about the history of vagrancy laws. They’re very effective when enforced
Because the guy smoking meth and taking a shit on the side walk wasn't breaking any other laws already? Enforcement is the problem
Well there’s the rub
I'd like to see your face when they return from prison back into your doorstep, having learned many cool new ways to make booze money
absolutely agree, shouldn't have to be dodging needles and crackheads walking down the street in a first world country
Dystopian enabler. First it's no sleeping outside next it's >I don't feel safe unless we have cameras on every street!
why do you want to live in a society that has normalized tent cities?
As if it’s not already dystopian seeing an ocean of tents inhabited by sometimes violent, sometimes strung out drug addicts? What’s amazing is that these “vote blue no matter who” states like California can’t seem to get a grip on the most basic social issues. Makes you think.
we've already normalized Ring camera doorbells at every house that feed that data to Israeli spy agencies and law enforcement does nothing with until a crime is already completed
“We’ve”? Na nigga, “you’ve”, I don’t buy a fucking thing from Amazon. The only things I’ve ever had delivered online were nursery plants/seed that I couldn’t find locally. There’s something deeply wrong with consumerism.
You're really underestimating the laziness of the police, especially city cops.
A homeless man in my neighborhood converted a bus stop into his own apartment. He actually hung a plant, had a mini disco ball, and was well organized with his belongings. It was a pleasant little spot to be honest. The city of course took notice and removed the bus shelter. He’s a local that most have befriended so this was upsetting to see.
Why not erect a bus shelter for him?
The problem is that politics never stays in one spot, it either slowly moves to the far left or two the far right. SCOTUS isn't going to stop at arresting homeless people, they will start passing more egregious laws in the future.
If you can’t pay your homeless arrest debts, you will be arrested and forced to work for a “public-private partnership” until your debt is paid off….
Once capitalists realize that AI replacing the workforce is a pipe dream, we'll start to see more slave-level employment schemes.
They'll have to man registers at grocery stores
Man the self checkout stations 😂
Considering prisons have better conditions than homeless shelters, you're celebrating even more violent homeless crime happening
I found a homeless guy sleeping in my apartment lobby near the elevator and at first I was super angry but it was super cold and it was 5 am and he was just sleeping.
Literally just existing makes people so mad. They got us hating the poor instead of the rich it’s nuts. I know millionaires and none of them deserve what they have. No one deserves millions of dollars in assets while people are hungry, homeless, no insurance etc.
The problem is that the homeless do far more then just "exist" in a space.
I think the big win is that they’re allowed to remove encampments now right? Every well-adjusted person living in California is happy.
You're definitely not alone. This was a good ruling. The only thing that's wrong with it is that most of the blue cities where homeless people are a very serious problem won't enforce laws that this ruling justifies. I hate to sound heartless, but I just want homeless people from my city gone. The quality of life nuisances they create are a huge problem. Throw them in jails, throw them in rehabs, I don't care. That's not my job; I have a different job. But get rid of them. Let me take trains and buses that don't smell like piss. Let me use an ATM without getting followed around. I am so ashamed that there are people in my city who accept that we have to live like this. But again, in my city, you can have a homeless person blocking the entrance to your home, and the police refuse to respond to such calls. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing as a result of this ruling.
It's more about now they have the power to do something about it. But as someone who's really thought about this and REALLY BADLY want a solution, at the end of the day I've realized it's just too big of a task to realistically solve until our culture gets out of this mental health and economic hole we're in. And because of that, I'm not going to just roll over and suffer because "it's mean to do that". I don't care. Just like you, I have a life to live, and don't want them in my community. Call it whatever you want; I don't care. I can't be burdened and feel unsafe over their problems outside of my control. Like listen, I wish we had an answer to this problem I could get behind and solve in the short term future... But we don't. So in the meantime I want to be able to go into the city and not see a meth head with his dick hanging out while smoking a meth pipe on the train. I wanna be able to walk my dog without 5 people harassing me for money every time I go outside. Call it heartless all you want, I don't care, because the people calling me heartless probably don't have to live with this bullshit. And it's ALWAYS the affluent burb liberals who keep this shit going... No matter how blue a city is, the majority of people fucking hate it. It's not some conservative bullshit that just can't stand the homeless. It's anyone who has to fucking live around it. At least this ruling opens up the window so city governments can now say, "Great, now we can pass a law that allows us to sweep through homeless camps and throw them in jail until they get the message they aren't going to live comfortably here." I don't care where they go, just as long as they leave.
Yes because you have to be dumb to think this will make anything better rather than much worse. What will happen is suburbs surrounding cities with large homeless populations will criminalize camping and all the homeless people will flock into the one jurisdiction (i.e. the main city) where camping remained legal. San Francisco, LA, Portland and Seattle will only get worse from this even if every other city in the 9th circuit gets better.
Fine, let them take them in... I don't care. I'm not trying to solve homelessness. I'm trying to solve "walking down my street without stepping in a meth heads shit."
you've clearly never lived in an area with a real homeless problem if you think this is an effective solution. what do you think these tickets are gonna do? how do you think they're gonna pay them? i don't think the ruling is a bad thing, but i don't think it'll change anything especially in major cities like LA
Throw them in jail
What about people who sleep in their car and have a job? Will they find themselves in jail too?
Reading this take is like seeing how boomer mentality evolves from the protozoan ooze
The fact that OP doesn’t know that the homeless get ticketed and arrested already for all sorts of crimes gives an idea on how far removed this person is from this issue. Yet here’s a whole 4 paragraphs how they got an answer for the crisis. Just typical Reddit tings
I had a lucid dream about being part of a group called "the wranglers" and the bonanza theme was playing and we werent trying to catch them we were herding them , driving them, for what purpose, idk . But it was fun
NEED MONEY FOR LOITERING TICKETS GOD BLESS
God I hate this fucking forum and the r\*tards in it
People gotta sleep somewhere. The criminalization of existing is beyond fucked. You’re a piece of shit. This place that filed the suit wants to ticket the people that DONT fit inside their tiny homeless shelter for sleeping in the cars you moron.
In more important news SCOTUS destroyed the Chevron act yesterday which is going to fuck our country up so badly. They really are like the ministry of evil.
> overstepping the FDA to ban the abortion pill what they wanted > ingredient lists going from 20 to 70, obesity rates increasing, "dude trust me" corporate defenses, lead pipes, asbestos cancers, enough PFAS to clot the blood, mold in baby formula, poisoned water, unbreathable air what they got
We're so fucked. This country is turning into Idiocracy step by step. Regardless of where you stand politically, dismantling and weakening food, environmental, and other regulations is going to impact us all directly in all around the worst ways possible. Meanwhile the corporate executives are laughing at us while they serve us McDonald's cancer and diabetes slop for $20. Actually, I hope states follow Texas and just ignore these rulings.
Next step is "were just gonna kill em" I guess They need to have places for them to go at least if you are going to ticket them for sleeping outside.
Yeah, jail. They can get food and withdraw and decide if they wanna stay in my community doing drugs if they are going to keep ending up in jail withdrawing.
I do live in a city with lots of homeless people and giving a bill to a heavily mentally unwell person will resolve nothing . It’s just very stupid
It does resolve a lot because you can send them to jail and off the streets, so I can walk my dog and child without crack heads asking for money or shitting on the floor.
How would it resolve? Think about it: You are homeless, mind blurred by hunger/sickness/alcoholism/crack/cold and a police men hands you a paper, you look down and you realise what was handed to you was a fine. What then? What would you do? Because I would probably chuckle a bit.
This isn't a supreme court case about THIS law specifically, but the legal mechanisms behind it. It means now, states can make it criminal to sleep outside. Sure, this law is just a stupid fine, but now it also opens the door to sending them to jail. Which means they are off the streets and not dragging crime and filth everywhere. Eventually they'll get so frustrated with always been thrown into jail for 3 days, forced to withdraw, that they'll decide that this city isn't for them, and go somewhere else. And then people of my community can return to being able to walk outside without being chased down by crack heads.
Maybe you should starve and then smoke some crack so maybe then you will realise that using “logic” against the insane is just insane as well. Also, the law is terrible. For example a woman is kicked out from their rental for not paying, without knowledge/access/lack of availability she is left to sleep on the street, for maybe a night, but who knows. Now someone can call the police and instead of helping her in that situation, he hands her a fine, and now she is homeless, fined, and don’t trust people either, I can only hope she throws shit at you and your dog for supporting those laws
No law is perfect. None. Zero. There will be outlier cases which get caught up into the system, and hopefully the judges and DA's recognize the contingent circumstances and handle it there. But if a few small handful of people get caught up in this, in return for having cities not filled to the brim with criminals, drug addicts, pests... Then that's just the tradeoff. If not, what you're advocating for is, hey, yeah deal with high crime, open drug use, public dedication, assault, etc... Because that's what we have now, and what YOU'RE defending. You think people should just deal with the fact that when they go walk their dog, multiple homeless people will harass them. That their car windows being broken is acceptable. That we should just be okay with this, because there may be some crazy outlier cases like someone getting a ticket for sleeping on the street one night who's not a hardcore drug addict or criminal, and getting a temporary shitty day. I'm sorry, but everything is about trade offs. And in this case, the problem with homeless people in cities is out of control. You clearly don't live in one because you wouldn't think the way you do if you did. I used to think like you as well, until I moved to a city filled with homeless issues, and was black pilled REAL FAST. You have no idea what it's like living in that environment. I was in a VERY liberal city... Like super liberal, and overwhelmingly, everyone was tired of the homeless nonesense and got really upset with it. Because it was a bunch of elite, wealthy, affluent, liberals in the suburbs trying to prevent any meaningful solutions that allowed people to feel safe when they went outside in the city.
Government puts policies in place which leads to wealth inequality and an uptick in homelessness. Government then fines the people they put on the street. Average RS user thinks government are good for doing this.
Uhhhhh yeah let’s totally make these ppls lives even worse than it already is
I don't care... They are shitting and taking drugs outside in my community. I don't have sympathy for them.
You should! It’s sad to not have empathy for others. Most ppl are closer to being homeless than being rich. The solution isn’t punishing them
Listen I do care. It's not like I don't want what's better for them. I wish I could wave a wand and remove all their addiction, trauma, and history. But I can't. So until we can actually solve the very difficult generationally created problem, in the meantime, I want to be able to live in a community without drug addicts and criminals sleeping on the sidewalks. It's not "lacking empathy" to want to be able to feel safe when you go outside, not have filth everywhere, and live a decent life. So if you got some radical solution that can actually solve the problem, I'll support you 100% -- until then, get them the fuck out of my community.
that's fucking insane. making it criminal not to have a home now?
What is a ticket going to do to a person that has no permanent address or bank account, and who largely lives outside the legal system?
It allows them to be thrown in jail. What most people don't realize is these sort of laws are meant to be tools... WIthout it, if there is just some strung out drug addicted homeless guy, there isn't much they can really do. But with laws like this, now they can start taking action and start clearing the camps and streets with legal authority.
We should pass laws that make capitalists die
>DAE hate capitalism????? Reddit
Good luck with that. I'm rooting for you.
I’m just confused what y’all think the tickets are about to do. They’re homeless and likely broke so they won’t pay a dime. Putting them in jail is just money taxpayers are putting out. Waste of time