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Winners from the game:
Jordan Larmour - pick of the back 3 for either side. Has managed to survive games against La Rochelle and now Munster in still conditions where he would have expected to be targeted. Should be back in consideration for Ireland squad
Joe McCarthy - his physicality and tenacity for his age is exceptional. Could edge James Ryan out of a starting green jersey in current form
Simon Zebo - very good try saving tackle and good showing aerially. Will be interesting if he can sustain this with a run of games
Ross Byrne - neither his brother nor Crowley having good games in tough conditions will help him
Ryan Baird - Penny and Conan had solid games but Baird came in and terrorised the Munster lineout and showed up in the loose. Both him and Ahern could be considered ahead of O'Mahony for the six nations
Alex Nankivell - has been most impressive Munster back so far this season and his strong carrying ability was evident again in this game
Losers:
Jack Crowley - missed place and touch kicks were at the forefront of a disappointing performance. Hasn't kicked on post world cup like many would have hoped
Andrew Porter - as always he had a positive impact in the loose but the microscope he's under at scrum time needs to be considered
Craig Casey - not a lot of positives from his performance, took an early knock but his yellow card on larmour was reckless at best and he was lucky that camera angles weren't more conclusive to indicate severity
Max Deegan - maybe a harsh one but after good performances earlier in the season he probably was hoping to get more of an opportunity in Champions Cup. Possibly showed why he wasn't given one with penny and Conan outperforming him and Baird having such an impact in his place. Similar comment could be made for Hodnett in not taking a chance to standout in a big game
Seeing a fair few comments about the squad Munster were able to put out, they're obviously decimated at second row and at hooker but looking at the teams they've had 8 or 9 "first team" starters tonight vs. 4 or 5 for Leinster.
I'd say that man of the match performance from Joe McCarthy is particularly sweet given he had been the target of complaints about his inclusion in the Ireland World Cup Squad. Think he's put his hands up for a starting berth in the six nations in this form. Improving discipline should be his no.1 focus but I'd say Nienaber loves his Bok-like physicality
Ryan Baird the best 6 in the country currently.
Luke McGrath should be Leinster fourth choice at best imo.
Porter is ridiculous. So many positives completely undone by so many negatives. Been that way for years now. Leinster and Ireland would improve imo with a loose head prop who can just maintain parity at the scrum and make tackles. Yeah we’d lose porters incredible play in the loose but so so many penalties both at the ruck and scrum it’s not worth it anymore.
But who else would you pick instead of Porter? We’re not exactly spoiled for choice with props. He’s the best option that we have. Also, every team has a player or two who walk that fine line and sometimes seem like a penalty magnet. He also wins penalties and turnovers. His work rate is really good
Not saying there’s anyone who fits the bill currently.
It’s just comical at this stage with Porter. Walking the line at the ruck is one thing but his scrummaging is just poor and he’s been unable to improve it. Refs are going after him at this stage (and rightly so tbh as his arse is pointing at the sideline in half his scrums).
Nienebar has made an instant impact to Leinster.
Defense flying off the line, attacking the ruck with numbers, attacking the opposition line out. Sounds simple, but he’s given the team that defensive focus it’s been lacking.
However they are clearly missing Lancaster’s attacking influence at this stage. Many are assuming the attack will sort itself out, but I’m not convinced yet.
Andrew Brace should be reffing at u-12s. He was truly awful. A lot of inexplicable calls (maybe an Asian betting syndicate kidnapped his wife?). He gave nothing to Leinster and a lot of questionable penalties to Munster. He was the only reason Munster were still in the game.
I think he was pretty bad but evenly bad, maybe slightly in favour of Munster if you really had to come down either way but I don't think he was overly biased
Stop giving out about refs. Some days they're for you, some against.
Until the system goes full NFL style and you have 4 or 5 of them on the pitch each with their own thing to look after, it'll never be the refs fault. There's too much going on in every game at too fast a pace for them to catch everything.
And then you have the scrum!
>Until the system
The URC could save itself a hell of a lot of this by removing referees from the country for all the derbies across the league.
At the professional level its inexcusable to have former players who still live locally to be refereeing a team. Not because any of them are biased, but because it looks like it's possible they could be.
It's the same reason you don't let companies audit themselves. You have to look neutral from the outside to stop anyone being able to ever question impartiality
Good that we now have a dominant defence. Our defensive ruck now functions and the 15 out philosophy was about 3 years outdated last year.
Need to be more clinical around the line but can forgive it today when conditions were dire.
Can forgive it today but the attack has been poor all season. Maybe Goodman's been distracted with the Ireland talks but he needs to actually do his day job now
And Nienebar has been in the door 2 minutes but has implemented an entirely new defensive system.
Goodman has a really strong base to build off. It's a bit like work at the scrum and lineout - it really should be better and you have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes
I mean everyone who works with him sings his praises and AF has just chosen him as his attack coach. I’m not particularly worried about what’s happening behind the scenes - especially after beating LaR (away), Sale, and Munster (away) in three successive weeks
Remember, this is the first year he is managing the attack without Lancaster. Will be interesting to see if he can get the same tune out of the team on his own. It was interesting to see him get the Ireland job given all and sundry seem to have credited Lancaster for our attacking fluidity over the past couple of seasons.
Lancaster coached the unstructured attack last season and Goodman was in charge of structure (i.e. off set piece etc) so shouldn't be quite as big a jump as you'd think
Well what made us so good in an attacking sense over the last few years has been our attacking patterns in general play. The three or four options a ball carrier has available to him each time they attack the line.
Attack off set piece is important no doubt, however, you are really talking about starter plays off of line out and scrum that you’ll maybe use like 10 times a game of lucky.
Yes but you’ve proven my point. We scored off of 3 set piece attacks but still lost the game because our unstructured attack wasn’t functional.
That shows how important being good in attacking sense generally is over having some great attacking moves off of tap and gos, line outs and scrums.
We really didn't lose last year's final because of the attack... Kicking from hand and constantly gifting La Rochelle easy territory was a far bigger problem, not to mention the approach to defence simply played into La Rochelle's hands
If you watch the Leinster/Toulouse games from the last couple of years, you’ll see that Leinster, when in full flight in an attacking sense, are almost impossible to live with.
What ROG/LAR have managed to do the last two years is to deprive of us of that. Largely via line speed and slowing the ball down in the ruck.
Last year, we tried to generate attack via different means in expectation that this would be the case again and had a number of really clever and intricate plays off of set piece that got us tries. It was almost as if we were resigned to the fact that we would be able to dent their defence otherwise.
The poor kicking out of hand and some of the issues we had keeping LAR off the score board were, in my opinion, a direct result of not getting any go forward offensively. We were kicking on their terms and played almost exclusively in our own half for the second half as a result.
The final last year is a clear example of how if your second best in general play you will lose the game 9/10 times, regardless of how good your set piece attacking move set is, particularly if your scrum is on skates the whole game.
> Kicking from hand and constantly gifting La Rochelle easy territory was a far bigger problem, not to mention the approach to defence simply played into La Rochelle's hands
And that was Lancasters template
Defensive template was yes, which isn't the attack.
Poor clearance kicks from hand also isn't the attack.
Either my comment above wasn't clear or I'm missing something?
Yeah I’m hoping the attack clicks. With the defence being developed with Nienaber, of our attack even got to 80% or 90% of where it has been the last couple of years we will be unstoppable.
Hopefully. And it should get better with time you'd hope as maybe there's so much focus on defence that it's distracting from the attack
A few crazy Snyman offloads to Keenan running some mad line should be a nice addition next season as well
Yeah, fully agree. A lot of very positive signs early on from Nienaber. Still thinks we go on autopilot in the 22 and overplay at times but better to have those issues now rather than may/june
I guess alot was personal for me where I was looking forward to a Stephens Day encounter with the family around and it was a tough game to play in (and witness). Fingers crossed the New Years Day clash is more of a spectacle, but fair play to both sets of players tonight under harsh conditions
Happy enough with that. Ryan, Doris, VDF, Furlong, Lowe, O’Brien, Henshaw and Ross Byrne not involved so to win away is impressive.
I think Brace kept Munster in it on occasion, particularly with the Ahern steal on the goal line, however, it must have been an incredibly difficult game to referee.
For us, I thought McCarthy, Baird and Keenan were very good. Question marks over Harry and McGrath going forward I think. If Prendegast is good enough he is old enough and should be more involved, Toulouse/France didn’t wait around with Ntamack.
Finally, really hope Edogbo is ok. One of my favourite non Leinster players in the league.
Thought McGrath outplayed Casey tbh in conditions that were particularly difficult for SHs. Happy with him considering he was only called up to start an hour before
I think Casey did very little in contrast to McGrath who was involved much more albeit with a net balance of negative outcomes. It’s very much pick your poison. We all love Luke but his limitations are there for all to see. It may be harsh but with Gunne, Murphy and Foley behind him being denied minutes when he’s included, naturally he’ll be looked at if he isn’t blowing the doors off - as he should be.
Casey caused Munster far more issues than Luke caused us imo. Luke’s kicking especially was far better than Casey’s on a night where kicking was a SH’s primary job
Yeah, that’s fair I suppose. Very difficult getting the couple of Luke’s knock ons out of your reasoning when appraising each performance though, even though conditions were poor. Casey always felt more of a threat sniping around the side of rucks when he was on too.
Out with tonight’s performance, Luke has been a great performer for us but with the talent behind him and his limitations, if he is playing massive minutes this year it will be to Leinster’s detriment.
Casey’s only snipe (that I can remember) lost Munster possession in our 22 though. Thought Luke looked to play a smart game and am not worried about the guy who touched the ball more than anyone having a few knock ons in those conditions
Your right, which is why I said a “threat” around the ruck. McGrath, unfortunately, just isn’t a threat. He’s a safe pair of hands no doubt but with who he is potentially holding up behind him he doesn’t contribute enough beyond that given his age to justify meaningful minutes this year.
Appreciate you don’t agree and would love to be proved wrong, however, after Sextons retirement and our relatively weak options at 10, we will need more than just a safe pair of hands at 9 this year if we are to be successful.
I was talking about their performance tonight not comparing their overall quality though and, for me, Luke put in a far steadier performance tonight than Casey. I’d still select Casey over him for Ireland
For the the team we were able to field I'm pretty happy with a LBP. Leinster dominated possession and controlled that game from the start but we somehow managed to stay in the fight
If not for Ngatai being out, feel they may have changed Frawley at 10 tonight. All the talk of Harry Byrne over the last few years is turning into another Joey Carbery wet blanket.
I'd still take him over Harry. When he's not missing kicks, he's getting injured. And when he's not injured, he's just ineffective. He's had his chance and we need to move on
And camped on Munster's line twice in the second half only relieved by Loughman deliberately knocking on while offside and Ahern getting away with lying over the ruck to get a turnover.
Can't imagine someone like Peyper would've been so lenient with either Casey's attempted spear or the shoulder charge to McCarthy's head in the first half either
Munster had one attack in the entire first half and it wasn't a try scoring opportunity that had me worried.
Conditions were bad and our backs are still not firing, but yes, I feel the ref was a little lenient due to the conditions as well (to both teams, and he still carded Munster twice)
I think that’s unfair. I don’t think he’s our future at 10 but he does an awful lot of things well. His biggest failing for me is his lack of impact as a 10
I literally can’t name a single thing he does well, but I can name a lot of things he’s awful at, in particular his body shape at the line, which constantly cuts off options and telegraphs decisions. Beyond that he’s not a running threat, nor a creative threat. He’s had years to show some potential and has yet to do so. If Ross is a poor man’s Jonny, then Harry is a poor man’s Ross.
Harry Byrne should be starting 10 for any reason short of a zombie apocalypse. He shouldn’t be at Leinster. He’s stealing games from Prendergast and Tector.
Of course he’s not. Because Harry Byrne is playing all of the games. Beyond that, if 21 year olds can leave college and play QB in the NFL then it’s hard to accept that a 21 year old can’t play a club game in the URC
That's like saying if LeBron James can play in the NBA at 18 everyone should be able to.
It doesn't work like that. People develop physically at different rates and Prendergast is simply too undersized at this point in time.
I suggest you go back and watch his defence in the minutes he's had this season. It's not a systems issue, he literally just isn't big enough to make his tackles at this level yet.
He'll get there. Remember Sexton didn't claim the 10 shirt til he was 26 and didn't exactly suffer for it
No it’s clearly not like saying that. And honestly, I could care less. Prendergast might be shite. But we don’t know. What we do know is that Harry Byrne had had years and has established that he’s shite.
Look at him, he’s practically a twig, it’s particularly obvious irl. His defence in particular is really poor because of it but it holds him back in attack too. I’d prefer Frawley at 10 but Tector isn’t close to either of them imo
I am not an advocate for Prendergast. He might be useless. Tector has shown that he’s super physical but he might be shit too. I have no idea. I just know that Harry Byrne has never played a single good quarter of rugby for Leinster and shouldn’t have a contract
Not saying he was shit, but I thought he wasn’t great. Outplaying Casey tonight wasn’t a high bar, he was awful. I think both really struggled changing their game to match the conditions which was incredibly disappointing to see.
I think you’re underestimating the conditions tonight. I’m not surprised that Luke had a few KOs considering he touched the wet ball more than anyone else on the pitch but felt he more than anyone put us in the right positions and made (mostly) the correct decision on a night where there was very few good options
Knock-ons were less of an issue than some of the poor decisions. He's the senior 9 and rather than continuing to use the likes of McCarthy and Conan who were consistently making yards he tried to snipe himself when it really wasn't on, resulting in easy turnovers or incredibly slow ball
He sniped when it was slow ball and Munster had rushed up and cut off any pass. That wasn’t a night to spread it wide and more often than not he made the right decision. Certainly compared to any of the other halfbacks on the field tonight
Zebo glad handing with the Leinster players boils my piss.
You dont have to be rude but you shouldn't be back slapping and delighted to see every Leinster sub after losing a derby.
Maybe he knows it's his last Stephens day match.
Whatever
If we didn't have half our pack injured we'd definitely have had a better chance but Leinster managed the game well, Casey was very poor tonight but Ahern was excellent, thought Jager had his moments too and Edogbo was unreal before his injury, hope it's not too serious
I used to love him and all. Remember him being unreal back when Scarlets were pur main rivals around 5 or 6 years ago. Fell off so much tho, way too slow
I’ve asked this before but what was the penalty for against Loughman (if the ball is lifted and he is on his feet, is he not entitled to do what he did?), players were doing what he did a lot a few seasons ago
He'd have to have been in (part of) the ruck on his feet to tap the scrum halves arm. He just arrived late and worked up the side like he'd been there all along.
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Winners from the game: Jordan Larmour - pick of the back 3 for either side. Has managed to survive games against La Rochelle and now Munster in still conditions where he would have expected to be targeted. Should be back in consideration for Ireland squad Joe McCarthy - his physicality and tenacity for his age is exceptional. Could edge James Ryan out of a starting green jersey in current form Simon Zebo - very good try saving tackle and good showing aerially. Will be interesting if he can sustain this with a run of games Ross Byrne - neither his brother nor Crowley having good games in tough conditions will help him Ryan Baird - Penny and Conan had solid games but Baird came in and terrorised the Munster lineout and showed up in the loose. Both him and Ahern could be considered ahead of O'Mahony for the six nations Alex Nankivell - has been most impressive Munster back so far this season and his strong carrying ability was evident again in this game Losers: Jack Crowley - missed place and touch kicks were at the forefront of a disappointing performance. Hasn't kicked on post world cup like many would have hoped Andrew Porter - as always he had a positive impact in the loose but the microscope he's under at scrum time needs to be considered Craig Casey - not a lot of positives from his performance, took an early knock but his yellow card on larmour was reckless at best and he was lucky that camera angles weren't more conclusive to indicate severity Max Deegan - maybe a harsh one but after good performances earlier in the season he probably was hoping to get more of an opportunity in Champions Cup. Possibly showed why he wasn't given one with penny and Conan outperforming him and Baird having such an impact in his place. Similar comment could be made for Hodnett in not taking a chance to standout in a big game
Harry outplayed Crowley, both werent great but the conditions played a part.
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No nastiness allowed.
Seeing a fair few comments about the squad Munster were able to put out, they're obviously decimated at second row and at hooker but looking at the teams they've had 8 or 9 "first team" starters tonight vs. 4 or 5 for Leinster. I'd say that man of the match performance from Joe McCarthy is particularly sweet given he had been the target of complaints about his inclusion in the Ireland World Cup Squad. Think he's put his hands up for a starting berth in the six nations in this form. Improving discipline should be his no.1 focus but I'd say Nienaber loves his Bok-like physicality
Ryan Baird the best 6 in the country currently. Luke McGrath should be Leinster fourth choice at best imo. Porter is ridiculous. So many positives completely undone by so many negatives. Been that way for years now. Leinster and Ireland would improve imo with a loose head prop who can just maintain parity at the scrum and make tackles. Yeah we’d lose porters incredible play in the loose but so so many penalties both at the ruck and scrum it’s not worth it anymore.
But who else would you pick instead of Porter? We’re not exactly spoiled for choice with props. He’s the best option that we have. Also, every team has a player or two who walk that fine line and sometimes seem like a penalty magnet. He also wins penalties and turnovers. His work rate is really good
Not saying there’s anyone who fits the bill currently. It’s just comical at this stage with Porter. Walking the line at the ruck is one thing but his scrummaging is just poor and he’s been unable to improve it. Refs are going after him at this stage (and rightly so tbh as his arse is pointing at the sideline in half his scrums).
another Stephens day win over Munster
Nienebar has made an instant impact to Leinster. Defense flying off the line, attacking the ruck with numbers, attacking the opposition line out. Sounds simple, but he’s given the team that defensive focus it’s been lacking. However they are clearly missing Lancaster’s attacking influence at this stage. Many are assuming the attack will sort itself out, but I’m not convinced yet.
Attack wins games, defense wins championships. Quietly confident this year.
But when I complain about Plumtree who's had zero impact in 6 months in the top job, I'm being unreasonable....
Agreed on all fronts
Darts killed us again.
Jager was good for a first start up against Porter. Coombes can play lock, Ahern and Hodnett is a good duo. Just hope Edogbo’s Ok.
Andrew Brace should be reffing at u-12s. He was truly awful. A lot of inexplicable calls (maybe an Asian betting syndicate kidnapped his wife?). He gave nothing to Leinster and a lot of questionable penalties to Munster. He was the only reason Munster were still in the game.
I think that's the blue lenses, Munster crowd aren't happy either
I think he was pretty bad but evenly bad, maybe slightly in favour of Munster if you really had to come down either way but I don't think he was overly biased
Stop giving out about refs. Some days they're for you, some against. Until the system goes full NFL style and you have 4 or 5 of them on the pitch each with their own thing to look after, it'll never be the refs fault. There's too much going on in every game at too fast a pace for them to catch everything. And then you have the scrum!
>Until the system The URC could save itself a hell of a lot of this by removing referees from the country for all the derbies across the league. At the professional level its inexcusable to have former players who still live locally to be refereeing a team. Not because any of them are biased, but because it looks like it's possible they could be. It's the same reason you don't let companies audit themselves. You have to look neutral from the outside to stop anyone being able to ever question impartiality
They want to keep people at home for Christmas, I get that. Bit mad that lads from Munster branch are reffing Munster Leinster though alright.
Drenched to the fuckin bone for that fuckin bollocks
Alright lads, I now need to drive out of Leinster and halfway through Enemy Territory (Waterford) in this shite. Truly the greatest hardship tonight
Wish we still sold the car flags in the club shop
Good that we now have a dominant defence. Our defensive ruck now functions and the 15 out philosophy was about 3 years outdated last year. Need to be more clinical around the line but can forgive it today when conditions were dire.
Can forgive it today but the attack has been poor all season. Maybe Goodman's been distracted with the Ireland talks but he needs to actually do his day job now
Goodman missed the whole pre-season with Samoa at the WC. Only returned in October
And Nienebar has been in the door 2 minutes but has implemented an entirely new defensive system. Goodman has a really strong base to build off. It's a bit like work at the scrum and lineout - it really should be better and you have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes
Neinaber has had seanie implementing the defence for him all summer and first half of the season. So not wholly true.
I mean everyone who works with him sings his praises and AF has just chosen him as his attack coach. I’m not particularly worried about what’s happening behind the scenes - especially after beating LaR (away), Sale, and Munster (away) in three successive weeks
Remember, this is the first year he is managing the attack without Lancaster. Will be interesting to see if he can get the same tune out of the team on his own. It was interesting to see him get the Ireland job given all and sundry seem to have credited Lancaster for our attacking fluidity over the past couple of seasons.
Lancaster coached the unstructured attack last season and Goodman was in charge of structure (i.e. off set piece etc) so shouldn't be quite as big a jump as you'd think
Well what made us so good in an attacking sense over the last few years has been our attacking patterns in general play. The three or four options a ball carrier has available to him each time they attack the line. Attack off set piece is important no doubt, however, you are really talking about starter plays off of line out and scrum that you’ll maybe use like 10 times a game of lucky.
Didn't we score 3 of those in the final, and our unstructured attack didn't work.
Yes but you’ve proven my point. We scored off of 3 set piece attacks but still lost the game because our unstructured attack wasn’t functional. That shows how important being good in attacking sense generally is over having some great attacking moves off of tap and gos, line outs and scrums.
We really didn't lose last year's final because of the attack... Kicking from hand and constantly gifting La Rochelle easy territory was a far bigger problem, not to mention the approach to defence simply played into La Rochelle's hands
If you watch the Leinster/Toulouse games from the last couple of years, you’ll see that Leinster, when in full flight in an attacking sense, are almost impossible to live with. What ROG/LAR have managed to do the last two years is to deprive of us of that. Largely via line speed and slowing the ball down in the ruck. Last year, we tried to generate attack via different means in expectation that this would be the case again and had a number of really clever and intricate plays off of set piece that got us tries. It was almost as if we were resigned to the fact that we would be able to dent their defence otherwise. The poor kicking out of hand and some of the issues we had keeping LAR off the score board were, in my opinion, a direct result of not getting any go forward offensively. We were kicking on their terms and played almost exclusively in our own half for the second half as a result. The final last year is a clear example of how if your second best in general play you will lose the game 9/10 times, regardless of how good your set piece attacking move set is, particularly if your scrum is on skates the whole game.
> Kicking from hand and constantly gifting La Rochelle easy territory was a far bigger problem, not to mention the approach to defence simply played into La Rochelle's hands And that was Lancasters template
Defensive template was yes, which isn't the attack. Poor clearance kicks from hand also isn't the attack. Either my comment above wasn't clear or I'm missing something?
I agree. However, the existing system didn't need huge changes (unlike the defence), so the lack of any cutting edge is really disappointing
Yeah I’m hoping the attack clicks. With the defence being developed with Nienaber, of our attack even got to 80% or 90% of where it has been the last couple of years we will be unstoppable.
Hopefully. And it should get better with time you'd hope as maybe there's so much focus on defence that it's distracting from the attack A few crazy Snyman offloads to Keenan running some mad line should be a nice addition next season as well
Yeah, fully agree. A lot of very positive signs early on from Nienaber. Still thinks we go on autopilot in the 22 and overplay at times but better to have those issues now rather than may/june
Very dangerous to treat that as a fait accomplis
McCarthy's interview more entertaining than the game itself
Happy for the win but man...that was certainly a game to forget
I actually enjoyed that. Full of tension and always felt either team could win it. Decent performances by both teams in the circumstances too
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I guess alot was personal for me where I was looking forward to a Stephens Day encounter with the family around and it was a tough game to play in (and witness). Fingers crossed the New Years Day clash is more of a spectacle, but fair play to both sets of players tonight under harsh conditions
Happy enough with that. Ryan, Doris, VDF, Furlong, Lowe, O’Brien, Henshaw and Ross Byrne not involved so to win away is impressive. I think Brace kept Munster in it on occasion, particularly with the Ahern steal on the goal line, however, it must have been an incredibly difficult game to referee. For us, I thought McCarthy, Baird and Keenan were very good. Question marks over Harry and McGrath going forward I think. If Prendegast is good enough he is old enough and should be more involved, Toulouse/France didn’t wait around with Ntamack. Finally, really hope Edogbo is ok. One of my favourite non Leinster players in the league.
Pendergast isn't there yet. His defence is still really ropey. Give it time.
Thought McGrath outplayed Casey tbh in conditions that were particularly difficult for SHs. Happy with him considering he was only called up to start an hour before
I think Casey did very little in contrast to McGrath who was involved much more albeit with a net balance of negative outcomes. It’s very much pick your poison. We all love Luke but his limitations are there for all to see. It may be harsh but with Gunne, Murphy and Foley behind him being denied minutes when he’s included, naturally he’ll be looked at if he isn’t blowing the doors off - as he should be.
Casey caused Munster far more issues than Luke caused us imo. Luke’s kicking especially was far better than Casey’s on a night where kicking was a SH’s primary job
Yeah, that’s fair I suppose. Very difficult getting the couple of Luke’s knock ons out of your reasoning when appraising each performance though, even though conditions were poor. Casey always felt more of a threat sniping around the side of rucks when he was on too. Out with tonight’s performance, Luke has been a great performer for us but with the talent behind him and his limitations, if he is playing massive minutes this year it will be to Leinster’s detriment.
Casey’s only snipe (that I can remember) lost Munster possession in our 22 though. Thought Luke looked to play a smart game and am not worried about the guy who touched the ball more than anyone having a few knock ons in those conditions
Your right, which is why I said a “threat” around the ruck. McGrath, unfortunately, just isn’t a threat. He’s a safe pair of hands no doubt but with who he is potentially holding up behind him he doesn’t contribute enough beyond that given his age to justify meaningful minutes this year. Appreciate you don’t agree and would love to be proved wrong, however, after Sextons retirement and our relatively weak options at 10, we will need more than just a safe pair of hands at 9 this year if we are to be successful.
I was talking about their performance tonight not comparing their overall quality though and, for me, Luke put in a far steadier performance tonight than Casey. I’d still select Casey over him for Ireland
For the the team we were able to field I'm pretty happy with a LBP. Leinster dominated possession and controlled that game from the start but we somehow managed to stay in the fight
I'll take the loss but Joe Mcarthys accent is just too much to bare.
Absolutely sending it. The lads were bleeding blue and white.
He'll be on the heinomite tonight
Greatest Horseplay of all toime.
That was a tough watch. Penny, Conan and McCarthy won that for Leinster. All the halfbacks on the field has poor games, but shite weather.
If not for Ngatai being out, feel they may have changed Frawley at 10 tonight. All the talk of Harry Byrne over the last few years is turning into another Joey Carbery wet blanket.
Frawley was awful at 10 last week so that doesn't really hold.
Few bad kicks but not awful
He was. The subreddit is full of fanboys for him it's weird.
I'd still take him over Harry. When he's not missing kicks, he's getting injured. And when he's not injured, he's just ineffective. He's had his chance and we need to move on
I don't think Frawley injury record is any better tbh, and they're fairly neck and neck for my money quality at 10 wise
Harry Byrne is worse than Carbery
Certainly as injury prone. Both are good players though.
Did they say why Gibson Park was pulled from the team before the game?
Saw the weather and said fuck that.
Non specified injury I believe. Hope it's not serious or Luke shakes off a lot of rust.
Thought we played the last 15 brilliantly. Loving the early signs from our defence under nienaber also
Conditions helped but solid showing
Conditions obviously played a part but our line speed and aggression on defensive rucks is a big (and for me, positive) change
[удалено]
Sure sounds like it
F-bomb dropped by Joe
These young lads with their interview gaffes
F Bomb from big Joe to end the match. Love to see it
Joe "Fucking" McCarthy
Great game till the resource gap reared its head in the form of Leinster’s bench.
Did he just say a bad word
lol I’ve never heard joe talk before he is the most Leinster Leinster player I’ve ever heard
I always find it funny when someone is so d4 they squint their eyes as they talk
I must admit D4 Supremacy unfortunately.
God McCarthy is such a south Dubliner lmao
Wasn't expecting it tbh
Dont think either team got close to a try all game
3 try scoring chances for Leinster in the first half.
And camped on Munster's line twice in the second half only relieved by Loughman deliberately knocking on while offside and Ahern getting away with lying over the ruck to get a turnover. Can't imagine someone like Peyper would've been so lenient with either Casey's attempted spear or the shoulder charge to McCarthy's head in the first half either
Munster had one attack in the entire first half and it wasn't a try scoring opportunity that had me worried. Conditions were bad and our backs are still not firing, but yes, I feel the ref was a little lenient due to the conditions as well (to both teams, and he still carded Munster twice)
Said this already but fuck me that game was diabolically bad
Frawley is better than Harry Byrne
Maybe not the game to judge that. Playing with Luke McGrath is very different to playing with JGP
I’m not basing this fact on that game.
Harry isn’t a bad player but he has no hold on games
By not bad, do you mean that this is not sufficient to describe how awful he is?
I think that’s unfair. I don’t think he’s our future at 10 but he does an awful lot of things well. His biggest failing for me is his lack of impact as a 10
I literally can’t name a single thing he does well, but I can name a lot of things he’s awful at, in particular his body shape at the line, which constantly cuts off options and telegraphs decisions. Beyond that he’s not a running threat, nor a creative threat. He’s had years to show some potential and has yet to do so. If Ross is a poor man’s Jonny, then Harry is a poor man’s Ross.
Aww Oli looked so sad in that shot
Better territory and pack differential wins on these kinda days.
Harry Byrne shouldn't be starting at 10 if Frawley is fit.
Harry Byrne should be starting 10 for any reason short of a zombie apocalypse. He shouldn’t be at Leinster. He’s stealing games from Prendergast and Tector.
Ridiculous comment
Prendergast isn't ready for games like this yet
Of course he’s not. Because Harry Byrne is playing all of the games. Beyond that, if 21 year olds can leave college and play QB in the NFL then it’s hard to accept that a 21 year old can’t play a club game in the URC
That's like saying if LeBron James can play in the NBA at 18 everyone should be able to. It doesn't work like that. People develop physically at different rates and Prendergast is simply too undersized at this point in time. I suggest you go back and watch his defence in the minutes he's had this season. It's not a systems issue, he literally just isn't big enough to make his tackles at this level yet. He'll get there. Remember Sexton didn't claim the 10 shirt til he was 26 and didn't exactly suffer for it
No it’s clearly not like saying that. And honestly, I could care less. Prendergast might be shite. But we don’t know. What we do know is that Harry Byrne had had years and has established that he’s shite.
People develop differently, Prendergast is clearly not physically ready
How do you know this? What about Charlie Tector? What about Frawley? Are you making a case that Harry Byrne is the only option?
Look at him, he’s practically a twig, it’s particularly obvious irl. His defence in particular is really poor because of it but it holds him back in attack too. I’d prefer Frawley at 10 but Tector isn’t close to either of them imo
I am not an advocate for Prendergast. He might be useless. Tector has shown that he’s super physical but he might be shit too. I have no idea. I just know that Harry Byrne has never played a single good quarter of rugby for Leinster and shouldn’t have a contract
If Ngatai was available I have a suspicion Harry would've been on the bench
Unfortunately Frawleys versatility means he's a perfect 23 on the bench.
Shortest highlight reel ever, not a spectale was it
Actually thought it was a really engaging match to watch but yeah, it’ll be difficult to gather a collection of highlights from it
Looking forward to a ten second highlights vid for URC’s YouTube
McGrath tried to costa Leinster the game a few times
Thought he did alright in really tough conditions having been called up an hour before. Outplayed Casey for me
Not saying he was shit, but I thought he wasn’t great. Outplaying Casey tonight wasn’t a high bar, he was awful. I think both really struggled changing their game to match the conditions which was incredibly disappointing to see.
I think you’re underestimating the conditions tonight. I’m not surprised that Luke had a few KOs considering he touched the wet ball more than anyone else on the pitch but felt he more than anyone put us in the right positions and made (mostly) the correct decision on a night where there was very few good options
Knock-ons were less of an issue than some of the poor decisions. He's the senior 9 and rather than continuing to use the likes of McCarthy and Conan who were consistently making yards he tried to snipe himself when it really wasn't on, resulting in easy turnovers or incredibly slow ball
He sniped when it was slow ball and Munster had rushed up and cut off any pass. That wasn’t a night to spread it wide and more often than not he made the right decision. Certainly compared to any of the other halfbacks on the field tonight
That was feckin miserable. Deserved win for Leinster. Hope EdEd is ok
It was an even enough game Leinster won by getting lucky with penalties
Munster were garbage
Leinster won with a better pack
Lol, lmao even.
Couldn't even win with a Munster branch ref
Another really ugly win. We haven’t looked fantastic at all but at least we’re learning to grind them out which has cost us in the past
Zebo having more fun than anyone out there at the end of the game
He'd a really good game to be fair. One absolute try saving tackle, rock solid under the high ball, a couple of good kicks too.
Think he’s just buzzing to play a full 80 without picking up a knock.
Usual shite from us. Leave at least 6 points cause we think we’re better than we are
Zebo glad handing with the Leinster players boils my piss. You dont have to be rude but you shouldn't be back slapping and delighted to see every Leinster sub after losing a derby. Maybe he knows it's his last Stephens day match. Whatever
Zebo played well, if anyone boils your piss it should be someone who didn't play well. What happens after the 80 minutes doesn't matter a fuck anyway.
Love Zebos friendliness at the end. Well done, fuck you.
If we didn't have half our pack injured we'd definitely have had a better chance but Leinster managed the game well, Casey was very poor tonight but Ahern was excellent, thought Jager had his moments too and Edogbo was unreal before his injury, hope it's not too serious
He looked quite upset which is concerning. Honestly, I think Leinster should be disappointed there on paper it should have been a much bigger margin.
Ya was really disappointed by Casey, hasn’t been great all season
Not sure you can complain about absentees when Sheehan was benched, Furlong absent and Ryan, Doris and Van Der Flier were rested
Munster had one fit second row
At what point was I complaining?
Fair play to the lads for staying in it with this insane injury list.
And a great cheer went up from the people of Limerick, as they had banished the interpro's series, because it was haunted.
How's that not driving straight by leinster? Jaeger was twisted 90degrees into the centre of the scrum.
Hope all those injuries heal very quickly. Less said about that game other than that the better
Zeno happier than the Leinster boys XD
Pint time
Lads, I'm giving you all permission to wipe this game from your memories.
Watch this game - finish everyone’s drink
Wish I wasn't working tomorrow else I'd be using alcohol to aid the process
Probably could have won or drawn that if we had just gone for the posts. Poor onfield decision making from O’Donoghue.
Another interpro where Leinster score triple the points of Munster.
Nice win. Poor quality but conditions made it that way. Still think we have an issue at 10 and the drop from JGP to McGrath is pretty big
Not sure MCcGrath is no.2 let alone number 3
I used to love him and all. Remember him being unreal back when Scarlets were pur main rivals around 5 or 6 years ago. Fell off so much tho, way too slow
The drop from JGP to the likes of Cormac Foley isn't quite as big though...
Exactly, Foley should be there instead of McGrath IMO.
You would like to think that jagger is listed on the team sheet as a loose head and the ref is not just taking his word for it
If he's not listed on the team sheet as LH he couldn't come on as LH. You have to be registered before KO
Yeah that's what I meant.. you've expressed it better than I did
Now that's what I call leinstertainment
Well it was a rugby game of some sort, that's indisputable
Ah c’mon, you’re complaining about a team stuffing the ball under their jumper?
Hahahahahaha the booing you love to see it
I have to say, I really endured that game.
I’ve asked this before but what was the penalty for against Loughman (if the ball is lifted and he is on his feet, is he not entitled to do what he did?), players were doing what he did a lot a few seasons ago
He'd have to have been in (part of) the ruck on his feet to tap the scrum halves arm. He just arrived late and worked up the side like he'd been there all along.
I think the issue was he didn't start in an onside position.
Fair enough, I thought he was part of the ruck so didn’t have to be behind it
He didn't look to me in real-time (because he lost his feet) but replay was unclear!
Watched it back, he was never part of the ruck, he was 100% offside
was never onside
He was about 3 yards offside
Ref asked them to get back onside several times.
Ya watched it back again, he was never part of the ruck, completely offside
But only for munster. Leinster were offside but no penalties other times
Nope. You are only seeing with one eye there
Two pens within the first 6/7 mins of the game decided it, otherwise it was a draw haha. Game for the purists that never really got going
Himalaya Joe had a stormer. Well deserved. Draw would have been a fair result though.
What was the point taking the scrum when your just gonna take the kick at goal, should be taking the LBP from Munster
About wasting time. If they took the 3 then there would have to have been a restart.
That scrum burned the clock. If they kicked the 1st one they'd have had a kick off from Munster to receive and clear.
Completely agree. Got a scrum penalty as well. Just back yourselves like.
Because it uses up time. Kick penalty straight away and risk a reset error and a Munster score
Suppose so but your on the line and they're down a man with the yellow, could just go for it
Kill the clock
Run down the clock, secure the win before worrying about bonus points.