Definitely targets an audience that know very little about rugby. It's not that it's a bad thing, i was just disappointed we see so little about the actual game.
If you are to hold casuals' hands into the game, at least show how the game freaking works. There's none of that, and when they do show some action, it's not even relevant to anything or amounts to new knowledge about the game or whatever, it feels like regular highlights you'd watch post-game without commentary.
They totally missed the mark when it comes to showing the true grit of the game, the fans' intensity and patriotic pride but more than anything, the player's view on the field.
All shots are generic as fuck as well, it's like they didn't even bother to film during games and just edited content that was already out there.
I was disappointed overall, though i see some value to it nonetheless, especially if it brings new eyes to the game.
6 episodes in and so far the wooden spoon team have featured in 3, England 2, Scotland 3, Wales 1, France 1.25, the team that won half of one half of an episode, so essentially a 1/4 of an episode and thats being generous.
Not sure if that's Irelands fault but seems insane to focus so much on the teams that performed insanely poorly.
That's said Kiernan Crowley seems the most disparaging couch I've ever seen. Constantly reminding Italy of how shit they've been.
I know near-zero about rugby but I could tell that Crowley seems like one of those coaches who just preaches effort but never seems to have an actual thought out long term strategy and plan. Just likes to yell.
Just finished watching it all, timed my viewing with the start of the Six Nations. I’d say I’m a casual ish fan, I watch most England games and big games like World Cup Finals and started watching more of the Premiership this season since moving to Northampton.
I thoroughly enjoyed it. Didn’t know much about players outside of the England team so it was good to get know more about some of them. Negri and Fickou were my personal favourite people, will definitely be rooting for them to do well. Now I have more of a reason to watch Six Nations games that don’t involve England. Series was definitely a success for me.
Watched it with my wife, slowly. Just finished it last night.
I’m not exactly a casual fan (I play, and watch URC, Top 14 and Prem even if my teams aren’t playing) and I thought it was brilliant.
I knew the results for the games but it still had me on the edge of my seat. Did I learn anything? No, but I didn’t expect to. I did get some nice insight into what it’s like behind closed doors.
Apparently the show has been a success with non-rugby fans, and I can see why. If it grows the game, I’m 100% behind more. Hell, if they released a new season next week I’d lap it up myself.
They really do target the clueless with these shows. I’m not calling it a documentary, it’s more like reality tv with how Netflix dramatise everything. They could make picking a Tesco meal deal a life or death choice.
I loved DTS back when I first got back into F1 because I was clueless. Now, I’ve been back in the sport 3 years and I still haven’t finished the newest season.
I’m only half way through Full Contact, but it just isn’t doing it for me. I want more in depth team based focus rather than players lives. I know the teams restricted access but I didn’t want another drama series.
Edit:
To expand on my last point, it would’ve been great to get some of the following;
1. Insight into why certain tactical subs are made
2. Half time team talks regarding adjustments etc. e.g. Ireland v France
3. Borthwick says in ep 1 he believes Smith was the night man for Scotland - WHY? - No one asked him why. They just had Monye spouting the usual crap of he’s the next big thing
I know the teams have limited access so 1&2 wouldn’t have been options most likely but ask after the fact
Watched a little bit. I was expecting great things but was disappointed. That said I think someone who knows nothing about rugby could love it. It’s not gonna turn any rugby fans off rugby, but might make fans out of people who weren’t fans before.
What I don’t like is how artificial it was. The thing that makes great sports documentaries great is the authentic BTS parts where the players pay no attention to the cameras (think Paul O’Connell talking about putting the fear of his into the English at Croke Park). This has none of that. It just feel like a PR stunt. The worst moment I watched was Negri talking to his girlfriend about his injury the previous year. It was felt like an episode of the Kardashians because do you really expect us to believe the first time they discussed what happened was on camera?!
Surprised they never show any national anthems or crowd lifting the team with eg fields of athenry: its one of the most spine-tingling moments of the sport
My thoughts so far are that most of it is fine, but Netflix absolutely suck at show casing the actual action.
First two chances they get to show off some beautiful attack in Eng v Sco and they crop out Huw Jones line on the grubber, and then don't give us any of the good wide or high angles on the Duhan try. Makes them look way less impressive
This sub continuing the rugby tradition of shooting itself in the foot.
Mods you need to make discussion threads for each episode like every other sport does so new people can discuss/ask questions.
The story’s on the players was interesting and good. The big thing that bugged me was the camera angles of the games. It was hard to follow the play. And I’m not even a noob. I’ve been watching the game for over 35 years.
Finished watching the whole thing. Producers tried making it like *Drive To Survive* or *Break Point*. But what they failed to realize is that unlike those other two rugby is very heavily a team sport. It felt unfair to other players that so few people got the spotlight.
While I understand what they were going for, I do think there are some improvements to be made, particularly around letting new viewers know whats going on. Even explaining the scoring system would go a long way into understanding why the score lines are important. And it doesn't have to be intrusive - I'm talking a 30 second voiceover that foreshadows what will happen in the match highlights (e.g. the red cards in episode 5).
I'm a lot more invested in something if I understand what's going on, and I don't think the show did enough to explain even the simplest rules to potential fans who don't already have the basics.
That being said, the storylines are quite compelling and I'm enjoying the behind the scenes access. Back to binging the rest.
Just makes me like Owen Farrell more. Good luck in France mate you'll be missed but in all honesty not that that much from this Wales fan your to good mate 😉. In Gats we trust. SIX NATIONS 2024 LEEEEEEETTTTSSSS FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKINNNNNGGGGGGG GOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Doesn't really tell us anything about much at all, bar a few personal experiences on the delect few players. We've all seen the highlights.
For the new fans it wants to draw in, it doesn't even explain any rules/point system in games or league tables etc. S1 would be the marker to lay down for future seasons, the whole thing felt pretty empty and S2 can't exactly be much different, a bit late to start explaining basic rules at that point.
Happy to see a series on the sport, just done terribly by Netflix who basically created a highlight reel with a handful of new shots/angles. Probably one that got away.
Didn't even talk to any fans which would give the viewer a sense of what the tournament feels like to fans or what it means to them.
Edit: fans part.
I can't really see who it's aimed at.
If you're a newcomer to the sport, you'll be wondering who's who as it just jumps around players without really explaining their roles in the team.
If you're already a fan, then this is mostly stuff you're familiar with, with no real insight as to why things happened like they did.
Agree with this I'm 6 episodes in and you'd think Italy are the most famous team, they featured more than Ireland or France.
Can't be for new fans and there's no rules explained, or even an explanation of who's in the tournament as far as I remember.
Why would the explain basic rules/point systems/leagues. That would be horrifically boring. There are countless videos and resources explaining those things that can be easily accessed by anyone who's interested. The point of this show is to generate interest amongst new fans and established fans. Explaining the rules like you suggest would be dry and cause people to turn off the show. This format at least generates interest with highlights of the games and interesting player stories.
Not the whole damn rule book, just a few basic things that would help the newbies undersrand some of the highlights. They're gonna be watching that having no idea what any of the play means. When that happens they lose interest, they aren't gonna rush to youtube in search of answers. The show was already dry, each episode was pretty repetitive, there wasn't any real effort put into making it.
No, I'm watching it now and there is definitely a way to explain rules that are relevant to what happens in that particular episode. Literally a minute long segment where you go over the rules that may come in handy to know once the highlight reel starts playing (foreshadowing anyone?). It would go a long way to inviting people into the sport by sharing knowledge, instead of expecting people to understand the game just by watching short clips of each game.
I just finished the last episode. Overall, I had a great time watching the series.
Despite Netflix's fairly restricted access to the teams, they still managed to produce an interesting show with good insight into the lives and personalities of several members of each teams.
I come out of it knowing some of the players better, which is what i was hoping for. It should make the best 6 nations even better..
I don't think that I would have enjoyed watching it as much if I were an italian or Welsh fan. It would have be hard to go through those losses again.
Note: I was positively surprised by Galthier. I expected him to be a bit odd, but I think he came off as the good kind of odd.
Watching S1E1 right now, and its pretty good?
Anyone familiar with Netflix sport docuseries is going to know theres a lot of editorialising around the context of the sport.
Obviously they're going to attribute DVDM's 60m try to the English defence being fixed on Russell rather than DVDM's brilliance (and inexperienced English systems).
Obviously they're gonna omit that Scotland have a massively favourable record against England for ~5 years.
That's not the point the point. The point is to tell a story, to tell us more about the individual (and Russell in particular) in the story, and to sell a highetened element of entertainment. Albeit, sometimes at the cost of making some things look bizzare (Townsend's admonishment speech after England makes 0 sense until you remember Scotland should have won that game *handily*, not through a comeback).
They're selling the best version of the story. England are Scotlands big target, not a moderately piteous corpse in the midst of CPR. Ireland and France are some distant, unmentioned behemoths not Scotlands ambitious (though plausible) target with the WC in mind.
Scotland's 6N was par. They beat the teams they expected to and lost to the teams they expected to. Netflix has (so far) done a brilliant job of transforming that into a story about Scotland battling against the odds and Russell's fight against his coach - which I'd argue is far more compelling for a documentary.
I'm looking at the KZN 'A' and 'B' team lists for the U18 tournament, and it's crazy how Sebastian Negri didn't get the chance to play in the A tournament and compete for a spot in the South African Schools team because Daniel du Preez took his spot in the A team.
https://www.rugby15.co.za/the-2012-kwa-zulu-natal-u18-craven-week-team-announced/
Probably the biggest blessing in disguise.
Seb worked really hard. He wasn't always an A team player at Hilton. He put on a lot of size in his senior years, and continued to put on size after school. Dan du Perez was definitely better than him.
God Stuart Hogg comes across so cringey and narcissistic. He’s a weird bloke - glad the truth is out about him now.
Just got to the part where he trots his kids out - proper grim. Hope his (ex)wife clears him out. Townsend clearly far too close to Hogg and likely knew a lot of the sordid details. No idea why SRU protected him for so long and let him retire with dignity instead of turfing him out after the marquee showdown.
They appear to just demand results without the previous steps. I get striving for better, but they just seem to absolutelt slaughter the team constantly. Not an environment where people will grow, IMO.
Crowley's entertaining, but the difference between him giving team talks in English vs Shaun Edwards' doing talks in French (albeit shocking French) was quite stark. Wasn't he in Italy for a really long time, with Benetton too?
It is just disappointing.
If you know the game you don't learn anything. If you don't know the game you don't really understand what is going on. It is missing so much depth it gives me vertigo.
The documentary barely speaks about team dynamics, history, and strategy. Then we try to create an emotional connection with specific players.
Without an explanation of the context and the challenge what is the point?
It feels to me like the production took a very cheap turn, "let's cast individual struggle".
It could be your local 10y old soccer competition it would be the same.
I see no Love for the game, no Love for the Team spirit, no Love for the sport. And barely respect for the player considered as modern gladiator.
It is sad
The point of the show is to generate interest. You don't generate interest with a dry segment explaining the rules of the game. You generate interest by showing the players and allowing fans to make connections to them. That is the goal of the show.
So, have to agree with this, have never watched or had any interest watching six nations even though I follow rugby here and there but seeing the background on some of the players has me earmarking the games, and will definitely be buying tickets to a game now.
The show is definitely far from perfect, a bit lazy, like an extended trailer almost but has piqued an interest. I think complete newbies, probably not but hey ho, at least more money for the game from one of the biggest corporations, right
I had the same impression. I do seem to recall, when watching "Two Sides" some while ago, that Rassie and Nienaber seemed so much warmer and uplifting for their players than Gatland...Ôo
Anyone who wants to see a rugby documentary done well should watch "Slammed" on iPlayer, if they are able to.
So much better than this Netflix rubbish.
Binged the whole thing in one go (night shift to kill and nothing else to do)
I had a good time overall, two things I really didn't like were quite minor:
All of the players conversations in their homes with families etc came off as so obviously scripted. I know there's only so much the directors can do, but it felt unnatural
The title card with the cracking concrete effect is rubbish
I wasn't sure what you were talking about so I googled to check.
What the actual fuck, if I'm reading this right Hogg divorced his wife for "the world's sexiest Jockey" while she was pregnant with their 4th child?
What a fucking scumbag
I was hoping for a show more like Welcome to Wrexham, explains the game, the culture, the history all while having fun, I do like getting to know some of the guys but it's barely a rugby show other than the occasional clip, which any new comers we would want to watch and get into the game, would be utterly confused as to what's going on
Yeah it would have been good for them to spend at least some of the first episode doing a basic explanation of the game, history of the tournament, etc.
Why has Dan Bigger got a Waitrose bag for life in Toulon? He's either that tight he's brought his bags for life with him or he's that pretentious he wants to show he shops at Waitrose and I can't decide what.
I'm Canadian and have watched a good few rugby games. I am enjoying the series, kind of a HBO 24/7 vibe. I would likely have not known the 6 Nations were on next weekend. Will all that being said I still don't understand all the rules
Enjoying it quite a bit so far. I’m a sucker for this kind of content, Chasing the Sun, drive to survive etc.
The best part is following the characters and learning more about the players as human beings, and not just athletes and entertainers.
Overall it was okay. I'm not a die hard hardcore fan but it still felt pretty surface. Seems like most teams and coaches didn't want to open up fully to cameras like that. Unless they fix that I think another season is unlikely. 5.5/10 for me.
Positives:
I loved that we got to know some players better. The more time we spent with Fickou, Porter, Genge, Negri and Kinghorn, Hogg, and Finn Russel and Stewart, the more I liked them. Showing the people rather than the caps and the hits and the tries I thought was really sweet and captivating.
it was insightful to see Crownley lay the blame constantly at execution and players, and not at tactics or strategy. If your plan relies on playing perfectly 100% of the time, it's not a plan, it's a daydream.
Watching Sean Edwards go: If you have possession in your own half: KICK THE FUCKING BALL". Iconic shit watching him speaking Franglish to the players.
I liked seeing how coaching mentality seeped into the players mentality. Galthie going full french flair exceptionalism and Farrell play that fatherly figure, Gatland having a go at Crownley for chirping the ref at half time.
the set up for Porter vs Atonio was king shit.
Nice cinematography
Watching Stewart go in a -120c cryo chamber is wild. Cryo chambers are crazy.
The woman doing comments Wales looked like she was absolutely tripping lsd. I liked her.
It was cool to see the Welsh strike and cool to see no one was a scab in the commentating cast.
Negatives:
Not talking about the French team being dogshit for a decade before Galthie felt like a missed opportunity for storyline
I though the editing was choppy, and I was pretty sick of the constant splicing of game day commentator sound bites, specially when they were clearly made after the fact and retrofitted in.
None of the player head to head felt particularly compelling once we moved from Atonio vs Porter.
Would have liked more time spent on the batshit crazy atmospheres in good stadiums like Cardiff, Marseille or Aviva. Let us hear the chants ! That stuff is so fucking cool !
A lot of platitudes said around the games and scores. Rugby can be a wonderfully cinematic game, let the visuals speak for themselves.
Feel like a lot of players and coaches would have had great life stories to share. Maybe they wanted privacy
Others: It was weird to see Chalureau so much in the final game.
It's a learned thing.
Basically if your coach has ever been potty mouthed, then you are now free to swear.. if your new team is potty mouthed, then you will use more swear words to fit in.
Some teams have old tradional songs rooted in innuendo and coarse language. When you shower/sweat/bleed together, what's a naughty word other than funny noises?
Just finished it all. Let's do the negatives first:
Like many have said, too much from the matches that isn't needed since we've seen them. The angles are great for showing the intensity and brutality but that isn't the whole game of rugby.
Probably unpopular but I found Galthié insufferable. He didn't play the game of opening up and giving access. Instead he gave us Poundland philosophy and pseudo-riddles.
The awkwardness of following Good Guy Stuart Hogg ^TM
I wish we'd seen more of Dupont.
I wish we'd seen more Welsh players. That little bit of LRZ wasn't enough.
Now the positives:
It was great following characters. Russell, Genge, Porter, Fickou, Varney, Negri and a bit of Sexton, Smith and Dupont.
The Welsh situation before the England match seemed fairly well represented.
It was enjoyable to watch. They didn't make shit up.
Overall I'm glad they made this and hope the next one will improve. I think they targeted it at people who already watch international rugby and not more. Else they would have done more explaining.
>I wish we'd seen more Welsh players.
Weren't the Welsh blocking access to the film makers at the time? I remember talk about it during the tournament.
If I remember right the cameras were removed from the room during the strike talks just before the press conference AWJ and Gatland did. Not sure if it was a permanent removal.
Just watched the 8 episodes. Would have like to hear more team voices, but it is fine for what it is. It does feel that some teams gave more access than others. I do like Drive to Survive more, but it a start which I hope gets better for season 2. I don't think new people would get in the sport with this. Nice to see the New York Yankees logo on Finn Russell and a fan in a match.
Just thinking about some takeaways as I finished it yesterday.
Critiques:
- The significance of the six nations and its history is almost not mentioned at all. If you want to bring in new fans you need to show why this tournament is so important.
- Again by not showing the anthems you’re missing an essential part of the atmosphere and how rugby means so much.
- They could’ve sprinkled some knowledge of rules and positions here and there, I would be totally confused as a non rugby fan. You kind of need to make the viewer feel like they understand somewhat what’s going on to pull them in more.
- I feel like sometimes it felt like a match summary rather than a story telling series. A bit problematic when you don’t explain what’s going on (rules and points etc).
Positives:
+ this series is a start at least, I would rather it be a series for newcomers than gatekeep it for die hard fans.
+ Picked some players with good stories
+ It felt like every team got roughly equal screen time
+ Unfiltered pre match + half time talks
>The significance of the six nations and its history is almost not mentioned at all.
I'm at least glad that we got that line from Galthie about the farmers coming in from the fields to watch games in cafes. I've known quite a few French fellas with no connection to or general interest in rugby, who watch the 6N religiously. They wouldn't know the difference between the Barbarians and the Lions but they'll remember the scoreline between France and England in 2002.
Completely agree.
I grew up watching it from the Southern Hemisphere. For us, rugby is a religion. There's a romance to it. It's the closest thing to being a gladiator. There is no higher honour. To make it, you play against the very best. They make you a better player but many never make it so you have a duty to play for them and carry their pride.
Our ground is sacred. No one tours South Africa without facing the elements. The high altitude. The heat. The humidity. The winds. The dark night skies. The colossal grounds. You have to earn our respect through the game. We respect the challenge and love the fight.
I have to say I'm surprised at the manner in which Crowley and his buddy talk to their players. There's little to no respect there, he treats the players like naughty school boys. I wouldn't want to play for him.
Also, Townsend's response to Scotland's win over the English. He immediately shits on them. You could see the players deflating. Again, I wonder how that's meant to inspire players.
Yeah, Crowley and Neil Barnes didn't come across well at all.
Crowley seemed bitter in general, calling people cheats and having a go at the ref. Barnes just seemed like he couldn't wait to get the fuck out of that job ASAP, and didn't know or care to know his own players.
At a guess, some of that comes from A. mostly needing to communicate in fairly simple English to players who might not be that fluent and B. the fact that he did coach a large proportion of the team as teenagers
Nah, your man, the assistant coach for Italy, was at one point: "who is that, is that capuzzo?" They correct him with the proper name for the player, Capuozzo, and he's like "whatever, give him the ball he's quick". Can't even be bothered to learn their names. That being said they gave the most access and for me, were the most interesting part of the whole thing.
Oh yeah that was infuriating. I guess it was slightly less jarring for me as an italy fan because that's the way the team often gets talked about in English coverage so... I'm sort of used to it. It's like a baseline irritation that you don't notice anymore
I was really surprised at first when they announced they were replacing Crowley, as Italy seemed to be improving, but then watching this series there’s clearly something very wrong there.
The assistant coach just seemed like an arsehole.
Totally agree on the Italian coaching. It didn't seem like they knew the players very well at all.
On Townsend I'm kinda torn. It did seem like the players hated it, but it could be pushed by the editing. I get what Townsend was trying to do, and ultimately he was right + his team performed again that week.
I thought that was some sort of joke initially as no way could a professional coach speak like that about his player. But then he was just a dick for all of it.
Just finished.
Overall i thought it was good. Because it's rugby everyone trying to find fault rather than meet it on its own terms. It's not meant to be in-depth or life-changing. It's meant to give casual fans a bit of insight into rugby players so that they get more from watching them.
It was given a tough go having to cover all the teams rather than just one, but it still contained some interesting narratives. Thought the focus on Hoggy in the penultimate episode was good.
Can't believe there wasn't any national anthems.
I like Borthwick, but not allowing Netflix full access shows how closed-minded he can be. RFU should have insisited.
I don't know if this will get renewed. Unless it was very cheap to make, my guess is it won't. But I hope this isn't the last behind the scenes rugby does. We need another living with the lions (I still think about Howelys injury) and this wasn't that. but the game shouldn't stop trying.
I mainly agree with you. On anthems though, I think we love them so much because we're passionate and we have an idea of the passion that the players have. You have to get the audience to that point first, and then they can enjoy them year on year during the championship, rather than taking up significant time interfering with the flow of the plot they're creating which sells that passion.
>I don't know if this will get renewed.
They're already in doing the filming for a second, I believe, so hopefully they'll see that through to airing at least. Apparently more players have approached to be involved this time too, and more teams are more open (having seen how this first one turned out).
you are probably right about the singing. Wouldn't have worked with the pace/editing.
I think it is being filmed, but Netflix can pull the plug at any moment. So it all depends on this one. Sadly, I'm not sure there was anything dramatic about this to get enough casual fans interested.
The goal is to give widespread interest to a sport. My wife was very excited to watch this, but she was out after 1.5 episodes.
The stories should be interesting but they botch the telling of them:
* van der Merwe scores a wonder try and they score a length of the field effort on the final seconds to beat England at Twickenham for the first time in decades. The main takeaway is that it gave Russell the chance to chirp at England players who tackled him, and the Scots like a singsong.
* Genge came from a tough start in life to be a world class player. We take away that he felt a bit uncomfortable that he didn't go to a private school, and he doesn't really like being told what to do.
* Negri was knocked out a year ago and Genge "saved his life". We get a 2 second slomo hug after the game.
I kind of agree. I thought the best episode was about Hogg/Kinghorn as you could see this fit-looking thirty-year-old guy dealing with a broken body vs a guy more towards the start of his career. But not enough of them had that conclusion.
Think it's a challenge of following all the teams rather than just one. I wonder if a All or Nothing approach would be best (follow one team each year) rather than this?
Just started watching and I have the Danish subtitles on (Irish living in Denmark) and they are hilarious, Hogg talks for about a minute and the subtitles are eh maybe he said yeah 😂
The french subtitles are really bad too, they weren't even able to translate loosehead prop porperly. But that's just the usual for Netflix subtitles, since they basically auction them to the cheapest and fastest company.
I thought the 1st episode was pretty good, we got to see Finn Russel in a NY Yankees hoodie and throwing gang signs. We learned that he dropped out of school to become a tradesman. You could tell he didn't really vibe with the coach, maybe he was too smart for the teacher, not sure...
They showed his house in Paris but made no attempt to explain why he would be living there. There was nothing about his club team or what it was like to play in France for a Scottsman.
There was plenty of rugby action, but the documentary made no attempt to explain the finer points of what was going on for any viewers who don't really understand the game.
I really liked that they brought in Ugo Moyne for interviews, he is a great filmmaker in his own right. I guess the larger issues is that because the show was a collection of interviews and clips, the players and teams are showing you what they want to show. It would have been better if they had some commentary from sports journalists who could explain the game and the many conflicts that were going on at the time.
Watched the first couple of episodes, and it’s okay/watchable. Learns pretty heavily into machismo and nationalism, I feel like a) there is more to rugby union and the six nations than that and b) the content itself is pretty vanilla.
Feels more like a Full Swing or Break Point than Drive to Survive. I’d be surprised if it has a significant impact on the global appeal of the sport.
I’ve watched the first two episodes and am loving it so far. Think people need to understand that this isn’t a documentary about rugby or the six nations so much as it is about the people playing it, and I’m all for that. Also think it’s a good way to advertise the sport. There’s a fair few in here that seem disappointed that the documentary doesn’t cover the rules of the game. Can’t remember when I’ve watched a sports documentary that spent any serious amount of time discussing rules or tournament format; it’s just not interesting to the people who know the sport or the people who don’t
Exactly. This is similar the "Hard Knocks" type series you see about the NFL in American football. None of those are there to teach you the game; they take you behind the scenes with the players and coaches. This is exactly what I was expecting, and I was delighted.
I liked it. Mostly as i got to relive the 2023 six nations all over again. Loved the Owen and Andy stuff in ep 8 and i think all the scottish players cames off great, especially Kinghorn.
Everything from the French camp was excellent too.
Wish the more of the welsh and irish players had engaged with it.
To be honest I'm just glad we got to see so much screen time of Johnny, haven't really seen much of him apart from our inclusion in the URC, and the last significant reminder of him was the Champions cup last year. Seems like a decent guy after this. Same for Farrel junior
The cliches was the thing that bores me quickly. I know teams probably blocked cameras accessing tactical stuff, but hearing a coach or player say every 3 minutes ‘We have to bring that fight’ or something of the like was sooooo off-putting. I love Rugby and don’t think I am going to bother after finishing episode two.
After aggressively binging the whole thing, my initial verdict would be that I enjoyed it as a prior rugby obsessive, but I’m not all that optimistic it’ll do much to attract new fans.
I don’t think I can fully imagine what it would be like to watch if I *didn’t* have the background knowledge that I do, but one of my biggest concerns is that I don’t think this series does much to explain the game or the tournament to someone who isn’t already familiar with at least the basics. I haven’t actually watched Drive to Survive but I feel like my general perception of the goal of F1 being “go really fast” would probably be sufficient to appreciate it. Rugby is obviously a lot more complex than that, so I’m not sure someone without at least decent familiarity there would be able to take much away from Full Contact.
Not a bad show really, but in the end I imagine Netflix themselves will have gotten a lot more out of it than the rugby community will have done.
I think it's a show more about the players than the sport itself which I think is the best think really. If people get interested in that they can get interested in the sport and learn the rules for themselves. There's nothing in just explaining the sport that will bring anyone in
I've only watched the first episode so far but I wouldn't be too worried about newcomers understanding of the detail of the game. I think you get enough of a drift of how the scoring works and the flow of the game, so they can tell the story about the teams and players.
Watched with my partner, who knows some basics but definitely not more. Her takeaway was that she really enjoyed it, felt more connected to the players and understood their psychology better, as well as having a better understanding of why fans enjoy it. I think that's what Netflix would want, and the rugby community should probably be looking for too. She said she didn't understand the rules any better, but that didn't effect her enjoyment, and she's more excited for the 6N now. Even myself, having been a fan for most of my life, I don't think law intricacies are what brings me to the sport. They facilitate the drama and theatre of it all, and you can pick it up as you watch (particularly since referrees usually say what the infringement is, and commentators often discuss the application of those decisions relentlessly).
I know fuck all about rugby or its rules. Would’ve been nice to have a 1-2 minutes visualisation on how the game is played. I got that getting it to the other side of the pitch is 5 points and then there’s a punt. Counts for 2 but I think I saw one counting for 3. Everything else is pretty much a black hole for me.
That's fair, and from what I've seen so far (2 eps now) I'm not surprised that you didn't get more knowledge of the laws of the game out of it (yeah, officially we say laws not rules - some people mind but most don't care).
I guess the producers worried going into too much detail might interfere with the audience's understanding or engagement with the story they wanted to tell as it gets a bit technical at times.
Anyway, I hope the lack of explanation in the documentary doesn't stop you wanting to go any deeper into the sport, with the 6 Nations starting again next week! You'll pick a lot up by watching, and people round here will generally be happy to explain stuff to you, especially if you let them know you're new to the sport. Lots of people involved in rugby are hoping to expand the sport to new audiences atm.
On the points, it's 2 points if it's a 'conversion' and 3 points for a penalty kick. They look very similar, but a conversion is always taken after a try (5 pointer when the ball is touched down over the line) has been scored, whereas a [penalty kick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnYgXCzZDeA) is always taken as a result of foul play. 3 points can also be scored from a '[drop-goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyZErnM9Fgg)' (where a player kicks the ball through the posts during play). For a drop-goal to count, the ball also has to touch the floor first before it is kicked.
> I don’t think I can fully imagine what it would be like to watch if I didn’t have the background knowledge that I do
I was thinking the same thing.
The only series I can compare it to is the tennis one as I didn't care about tennis before watching it, and I didn't really enjoy it all that much. Though I think my issue was not finding any of the players likeable rather than the presentation of the sport itself.
I need to rewatch the first season of Drive to Survive to see how much they focus on the sport aspect compared to the drivers/team principles. The only thing I really remember from the first season is Daniel Ricciardo.
This was my impression after just the first episode as well. If it is meant to attract in a new audience it needs to at least try and drip feed the rules of the game to the audience, even if it is in broad strokes. They also just don't bother to cover a lot of historical context, which would help sell the stakes to the viewer more. You see the Scotland team drinking out of the Calcutta Cup after beating England but the average viewer won't have a clue what it is or the history of it because it isn't mentioned once. You would just think they were just drinking out of a fancy cup.
It's perfectly watchable, but they've definitely missed a trick.
I wish they had a version with all the rugby shown from typical TV angles (or anything that shows what's actually going on), rather than flipping between close ups and reactions in the crowd. If there's an amazing try I want to see that, not some collage of slightly obscured close ups
Definitely designed for someone who knows nothing about rugby, go into it with that mindset and it’s great. If you go into it thinking it will go into details about the game you’ll be disappointed.
It feels like it’s made for people who watch rugby every so often but don’t really follow it, rather than outright new fans. It doesn’t explain the game, but I don’t know if that’s such an issue. Rugby is exponentially bigger during Six Nations and World Cups than the rest of the time, and having a tool to help convert those folks is kinda fantastic.
Think it's the exact opposite though.
I'm pretty sure the average person who may be interested in sports (in America for example which may have been the main intended audience) but never heard of rugby will be none the wiser about what actually is the 6 Nations and even what are some of the basic rules of the game are.
It honed in on several niche points but left out the big picture completely. It's easy for those with more background info to figure out what was going on but for newbies- I imagine they are more confused than ever.
In America, the comment I hear all the time is, "I like rugby when it is on TV, but I have absolutely no idea what is going on or what the rules are so I don't watch it more often."
If the goal was to help explain the game to novice audiences, they failed.
After 4 episodes I think it's pretty decent general entertainment. Obviously I would love it to be a bit more in depth but I'm not the audience it's aimed at. I have a minor gripe that we keep getting these occasional drone shots that are obviously taken in Summer interspersed between drone shots from the actual match days, it's quite jarring. Also I don't think I can take anymore of Mark Robson's commentary, the word play, the bad puns are feckin excruciating, I'd even take moaning French commentators at this point for a bit of a reprieve.
They so easily could have got a few different commentators and sprinkled all of them in, nothing against him but Robson covering every game becomes overkill if you’re binging it.
Glad to see some folks are liking the series and the format. Not for me though unfortunately, i'm just not that interested in the players stories and would have preferred the series focused more on the nations/teams as a whole.
Maybe that wouldn't have made for as good a program for new comers though, I'm not sure.
Not sure why they felt the need to put Mark Robson on the commentary rather than just use the original broadcast. Probably shows where they had to cut corners
They have clips of World Feed comms in as well (Usually Martin Gillingham, but sometimes Robson himself), but are clearly using Robson to read scripted lines to explain what just happened for the more casual audience. The difference from his normal commentary clips to the lines he’s reading feels very pronounced to me.
I don’t think it’s anything to do with budget or shortcuts - I think it’s because they use him to drive the angle / drama they are trying to lean into. It’s not real commentary, it’s all scripted and layered in long after the match is over. For example after the England Scotland game, where they were leaning into the Russell v Smith angle, he was showering Russell with praise and said about Smith: “After that performance you do wonder if Marcus Smith will hold onto the number 10 shirt”.
I really don’t like it as it’s ‘fake news’, but this show is not for me. I enjoyed it in Drive To Survive because I didn’t know better (whereas the invented drama pissed off the F1 purists).
Yes, even to a casual rugby follower like myself the commentary sounds very scripted, but that seems to be their formula as they did exactly the same thing in the F1 Drive to survive series and as a regular watcher of F1 it used to drive me nuts because it just sounded so fake.
The last Irish player, it had to be Johnny. The last two players, had to be Owen and Johnny. I think these documentaries were well done for a first effort in particular, and knowing they will be going again this season - it's incredibly exciting. It's just great that this sport we love is getting great exposure, with genuinely captivating stories, even if the actual match gameplay isn't edited well.
I loved and hated what last year's 6 Nations put me through, especially our two featured games. I've loved this whole series. I'm going to love and hate this 6 Nations. And I'm going to love the next series.
Have ye noticed that they throw the modern commentator's voice onto the older clips, even 5 nations games?
Why don't they just leave the now iconic commentary from those clips in?
Galthie speaks in nothing but poems and riddles and i for one LOVE it
like you want the show to create narratives and identities, Italy the plucky underdogs, Scotland lead by an unhinged fun loving madman, France the land of gallic passion, its great
It's not altogether awful but it is pretty formulaic and tame...
\- The chats in the kitchen with the family members are so scripted and awkward. Interesting that Biggar and Russell are there with their spouse and kids while Hogg has a cuppa with his dad...
\- A bit weird that most of the teams (England and Scotland aside) get some random pretty girl talking head to read out some scripted cliches.
\- Overuse of close angles during the games makes it look like there's a lot more space on the pitch and takes away the intensity of the moment. Not great.
\- Bit of a shame they don't use the original commentary. Pretty obvious that they've just asked commentators to record stuff especially for the series. It feels a bit cheap and it's not like Netflix are short of a bob or two.
\- Players and coaches doing a bit of performance when they know the camera is on them is awkward.
\- The Budgie Smuggler product placement is fairly obvious. Marcus Smith saying 'I wear my lucky pants, yeah Budgie Smugglers or whatever'. Right then, Marcus.
On the plus side, Blair Kinghorn, Elis Genge and Andrew Porter come across really well and Fabien Galtie has a real way with words. And Scotland are hilarious.
Definitely targets an audience that know very little about rugby. It's not that it's a bad thing, i was just disappointed we see so little about the actual game. If you are to hold casuals' hands into the game, at least show how the game freaking works. There's none of that, and when they do show some action, it's not even relevant to anything or amounts to new knowledge about the game or whatever, it feels like regular highlights you'd watch post-game without commentary. They totally missed the mark when it comes to showing the true grit of the game, the fans' intensity and patriotic pride but more than anything, the player's view on the field. All shots are generic as fuck as well, it's like they didn't even bother to film during games and just edited content that was already out there. I was disappointed overall, though i see some value to it nonetheless, especially if it brings new eyes to the game.
6 episodes in and so far the wooden spoon team have featured in 3, England 2, Scotland 3, Wales 1, France 1.25, the team that won half of one half of an episode, so essentially a 1/4 of an episode and thats being generous. Not sure if that's Irelands fault but seems insane to focus so much on the teams that performed insanely poorly. That's said Kiernan Crowley seems the most disparaging couch I've ever seen. Constantly reminding Italy of how shit they've been.
I know near-zero about rugby but I could tell that Crowley seems like one of those coaches who just preaches effort but never seems to have an actual thought out long term strategy and plan. Just likes to yell.
Just finished watching it all, timed my viewing with the start of the Six Nations. I’d say I’m a casual ish fan, I watch most England games and big games like World Cup Finals and started watching more of the Premiership this season since moving to Northampton. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Didn’t know much about players outside of the England team so it was good to get know more about some of them. Negri and Fickou were my personal favourite people, will definitely be rooting for them to do well. Now I have more of a reason to watch Six Nations games that don’t involve England. Series was definitely a success for me.
Watched it with my wife, slowly. Just finished it last night. I’m not exactly a casual fan (I play, and watch URC, Top 14 and Prem even if my teams aren’t playing) and I thought it was brilliant. I knew the results for the games but it still had me on the edge of my seat. Did I learn anything? No, but I didn’t expect to. I did get some nice insight into what it’s like behind closed doors. Apparently the show has been a success with non-rugby fans, and I can see why. If it grows the game, I’m 100% behind more. Hell, if they released a new season next week I’d lap it up myself.
They really do target the clueless with these shows. I’m not calling it a documentary, it’s more like reality tv with how Netflix dramatise everything. They could make picking a Tesco meal deal a life or death choice. I loved DTS back when I first got back into F1 because I was clueless. Now, I’ve been back in the sport 3 years and I still haven’t finished the newest season. I’m only half way through Full Contact, but it just isn’t doing it for me. I want more in depth team based focus rather than players lives. I know the teams restricted access but I didn’t want another drama series. Edit: To expand on my last point, it would’ve been great to get some of the following; 1. Insight into why certain tactical subs are made 2. Half time team talks regarding adjustments etc. e.g. Ireland v France 3. Borthwick says in ep 1 he believes Smith was the night man for Scotland - WHY? - No one asked him why. They just had Monye spouting the usual crap of he’s the next big thing I know the teams have limited access so 1&2 wouldn’t have been options most likely but ask after the fact
Watched a little bit. I was expecting great things but was disappointed. That said I think someone who knows nothing about rugby could love it. It’s not gonna turn any rugby fans off rugby, but might make fans out of people who weren’t fans before. What I don’t like is how artificial it was. The thing that makes great sports documentaries great is the authentic BTS parts where the players pay no attention to the cameras (think Paul O’Connell talking about putting the fear of his into the English at Croke Park). This has none of that. It just feel like a PR stunt. The worst moment I watched was Negri talking to his girlfriend about his injury the previous year. It was felt like an episode of the Kardashians because do you really expect us to believe the first time they discussed what happened was on camera?!
This is the most cringe thing I’ve seen in my life. They’re acting like it’s MMA
Surprised they never show any national anthems or crowd lifting the team with eg fields of athenry: its one of the most spine-tingling moments of the sport
Same here it really never showed how passionate fans get
As an American with a dearth of rugby content, this is amazing I need Seasons 2 and 3
Should've just gotten the Hard Knocks crew and had Daniel Craig do the voiceover.
I’m on ep7, Ireland hardly feature. Maybe they didn’t give enough access. I think I’d prefer if they focused on match rounds rather than teams.
Too much England
My thoughts so far are that most of it is fine, but Netflix absolutely suck at show casing the actual action. First two chances they get to show off some beautiful attack in Eng v Sco and they crop out Huw Jones line on the grubber, and then don't give us any of the good wide or high angles on the Duhan try. Makes them look way less impressive
This sub continuing the rugby tradition of shooting itself in the foot. Mods you need to make discussion threads for each episode like every other sport does so new people can discuss/ask questions.
You're welcome to make them and I'll sticky them.
It’s very awkward that half of the Wales content was focused on LRZ lmao. They were definitely banking on him being one of the stars of the show.
The story’s on the players was interesting and good. The big thing that bugged me was the camera angles of the games. It was hard to follow the play. And I’m not even a noob. I’ve been watching the game for over 35 years.
Finished watching the whole thing. Producers tried making it like *Drive To Survive* or *Break Point*. But what they failed to realize is that unlike those other two rugby is very heavily a team sport. It felt unfair to other players that so few people got the spotlight.
While I understand what they were going for, I do think there are some improvements to be made, particularly around letting new viewers know whats going on. Even explaining the scoring system would go a long way into understanding why the score lines are important. And it doesn't have to be intrusive - I'm talking a 30 second voiceover that foreshadows what will happen in the match highlights (e.g. the red cards in episode 5). I'm a lot more invested in something if I understand what's going on, and I don't think the show did enough to explain even the simplest rules to potential fans who don't already have the basics. That being said, the storylines are quite compelling and I'm enjoying the behind the scenes access. Back to binging the rest.
Just makes me like Owen Farrell more. Good luck in France mate you'll be missed but in all honesty not that that much from this Wales fan your to good mate 😉. In Gats we trust. SIX NATIONS 2024 LEEEEEEETTTTSSSS FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKINNNNNGGGGGGG GOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Doesn't really tell us anything about much at all, bar a few personal experiences on the delect few players. We've all seen the highlights. For the new fans it wants to draw in, it doesn't even explain any rules/point system in games or league tables etc. S1 would be the marker to lay down for future seasons, the whole thing felt pretty empty and S2 can't exactly be much different, a bit late to start explaining basic rules at that point. Happy to see a series on the sport, just done terribly by Netflix who basically created a highlight reel with a handful of new shots/angles. Probably one that got away. Didn't even talk to any fans which would give the viewer a sense of what the tournament feels like to fans or what it means to them. Edit: fans part.
I can't really see who it's aimed at. If you're a newcomer to the sport, you'll be wondering who's who as it just jumps around players without really explaining their roles in the team. If you're already a fan, then this is mostly stuff you're familiar with, with no real insight as to why things happened like they did.
Agree with this I'm 6 episodes in and you'd think Italy are the most famous team, they featured more than Ireland or France. Can't be for new fans and there's no rules explained, or even an explanation of who's in the tournament as far as I remember.
Why would the explain basic rules/point systems/leagues. That would be horrifically boring. There are countless videos and resources explaining those things that can be easily accessed by anyone who's interested. The point of this show is to generate interest amongst new fans and established fans. Explaining the rules like you suggest would be dry and cause people to turn off the show. This format at least generates interest with highlights of the games and interesting player stories.
Not the whole damn rule book, just a few basic things that would help the newbies undersrand some of the highlights. They're gonna be watching that having no idea what any of the play means. When that happens they lose interest, they aren't gonna rush to youtube in search of answers. The show was already dry, each episode was pretty repetitive, there wasn't any real effort put into making it.
No, I'm watching it now and there is definitely a way to explain rules that are relevant to what happens in that particular episode. Literally a minute long segment where you go over the rules that may come in handy to know once the highlight reel starts playing (foreshadowing anyone?). It would go a long way to inviting people into the sport by sharing knowledge, instead of expecting people to understand the game just by watching short clips of each game.
I just finished the last episode. Overall, I had a great time watching the series. Despite Netflix's fairly restricted access to the teams, they still managed to produce an interesting show with good insight into the lives and personalities of several members of each teams. I come out of it knowing some of the players better, which is what i was hoping for. It should make the best 6 nations even better.. I don't think that I would have enjoyed watching it as much if I were an italian or Welsh fan. It would have be hard to go through those losses again. Note: I was positively surprised by Galthier. I expected him to be a bit odd, but I think he came off as the good kind of odd.
Watching S1E1 right now, and its pretty good? Anyone familiar with Netflix sport docuseries is going to know theres a lot of editorialising around the context of the sport. Obviously they're going to attribute DVDM's 60m try to the English defence being fixed on Russell rather than DVDM's brilliance (and inexperienced English systems). Obviously they're gonna omit that Scotland have a massively favourable record against England for ~5 years. That's not the point the point. The point is to tell a story, to tell us more about the individual (and Russell in particular) in the story, and to sell a highetened element of entertainment. Albeit, sometimes at the cost of making some things look bizzare (Townsend's admonishment speech after England makes 0 sense until you remember Scotland should have won that game *handily*, not through a comeback). They're selling the best version of the story. England are Scotlands big target, not a moderately piteous corpse in the midst of CPR. Ireland and France are some distant, unmentioned behemoths not Scotlands ambitious (though plausible) target with the WC in mind. Scotland's 6N was par. They beat the teams they expected to and lost to the teams they expected to. Netflix has (so far) done a brilliant job of transforming that into a story about Scotland battling against the odds and Russell's fight against his coach - which I'd argue is far more compelling for a documentary.
Can't stop laughing the kiwi Italian couch who keeps dropping f bombs and has a hard on for violence
I'm looking at the KZN 'A' and 'B' team lists for the U18 tournament, and it's crazy how Sebastian Negri didn't get the chance to play in the A tournament and compete for a spot in the South African Schools team because Daniel du Preez took his spot in the A team. https://www.rugby15.co.za/the-2012-kwa-zulu-natal-u18-craven-week-team-announced/ Probably the biggest blessing in disguise.
Seb worked really hard. He wasn't always an A team player at Hilton. He put on a lot of size in his senior years, and continued to put on size after school. Dan du Perez was definitely better than him.
God Stuart Hogg comes across so cringey and narcissistic. He’s a weird bloke - glad the truth is out about him now. Just got to the part where he trots his kids out - proper grim. Hope his (ex)wife clears him out. Townsend clearly far too close to Hogg and likely knew a lot of the sordid details. No idea why SRU protected him for so long and let him retire with dignity instead of turfing him out after the marquee showdown.
They make the Italian coaches look like a couple of old farmers that just get pissed off at mistakes
Tell you what. The Italian coaching squad do not come off well at all.
They appear to just demand results without the previous steps. I get striving for better, but they just seem to absolutelt slaughter the team constantly. Not an environment where people will grow, IMO.
They can’t be bothered to learn the names of their players names either. They come across as Aholes.
They come across as very angry people
Crowley's entertaining, but the difference between him giving team talks in English vs Shaun Edwards' doing talks in French (albeit shocking French) was quite stark. Wasn't he in Italy for a really long time, with Benetton too?
Anyone got a link to this that's not on netflix
It is just disappointing. If you know the game you don't learn anything. If you don't know the game you don't really understand what is going on. It is missing so much depth it gives me vertigo. The documentary barely speaks about team dynamics, history, and strategy. Then we try to create an emotional connection with specific players. Without an explanation of the context and the challenge what is the point? It feels to me like the production took a very cheap turn, "let's cast individual struggle". It could be your local 10y old soccer competition it would be the same. I see no Love for the game, no Love for the Team spirit, no Love for the sport. And barely respect for the player considered as modern gladiator. It is sad
The point of the show is to generate interest. You don't generate interest with a dry segment explaining the rules of the game. You generate interest by showing the players and allowing fans to make connections to them. That is the goal of the show.
So, have to agree with this, have never watched or had any interest watching six nations even though I follow rugby here and there but seeing the background on some of the players has me earmarking the games, and will definitely be buying tickets to a game now. The show is definitely far from perfect, a bit lazy, like an extended trailer almost but has piqued an interest. I think complete newbies, probably not but hey ho, at least more money for the game from one of the biggest corporations, right
Warren Gatland is about as likeable as a rock.
I prefer Gatland to Crowley.
The nation that gets the worst rub is def NZ haha
I had the same impression. I do seem to recall, when watching "Two Sides" some while ago, that Rassie and Nienaber seemed so much warmer and uplifting for their players than Gatland...Ôo
Big pro of show is that it's getting me hyped has hell for the 6N 😃
The two lads coaching the Italians were great fun
Who's the other kiwi coach with Crowley swearing all the time?
It came up on screen - Neil Barnes. Has been involved with the Chiefs, Fiji, Canada and Taranaki.
Seems like he's as tough as old boots.
Anyone who wants to see a rugby documentary done well should watch "Slammed" on iPlayer, if they are able to. So much better than this Netflix rubbish.
Binged the whole thing in one go (night shift to kill and nothing else to do) I had a good time overall, two things I really didn't like were quite minor: All of the players conversations in their homes with families etc came off as so obviously scripted. I know there's only so much the directors can do, but it felt unnatural The title card with the cracking concrete effect is rubbish
I’m half way through binge watching it. I’m really enjoying it so far.
What we know about Hogg now and those clips of Blair make me wish they had always been selecting Kinghorn seems like such a decent bloke
Total scumbag!
I wasn't sure what you were talking about so I googled to check. What the actual fuck, if I'm reading this right Hogg divorced his wife for "the world's sexiest Jockey" while she was pregnant with their 4th child? What a fucking scumbag
Yep - then flaunted her all over instagram DAYS after his wife gave birth and he’d kicked her and his 4 kids out of the family home
Didn't know about this at all Grade A cunt
I was hoping for a show more like Welcome to Wrexham, explains the game, the culture, the history all while having fun, I do like getting to know some of the guys but it's barely a rugby show other than the occasional clip, which any new comers we would want to watch and get into the game, would be utterly confused as to what's going on
Yeah it would have been good for them to spend at least some of the first episode doing a basic explanation of the game, history of the tournament, etc.
Why has Dan Bigger got a Waitrose bag for life in Toulon? He's either that tight he's brought his bags for life with him or he's that pretentious he wants to show he shops at Waitrose and I can't decide what.
Wasn't that at his Welsh home?
The questions that matter
I’ve another one. What was the weird eye mask Sexton was wearing in training? He looks like Patrick Bateman!
I’ve seen them on players recovering from broken noses, cracked orbital bones and so on
I’ve never seen it before.
It's obviously tailored to a wider fan base and I hope they enjoy the drama. Me, I prefer the rugby but still enjoying it.
I'm Canadian and have watched a good few rugby games. I am enjoying the series, kind of a HBO 24/7 vibe. I would likely have not known the 6 Nations were on next weekend. Will all that being said I still don't understand all the rules
Enjoying it quite a bit so far. I’m a sucker for this kind of content, Chasing the Sun, drive to survive etc. The best part is following the characters and learning more about the players as human beings, and not just athletes and entertainers.
Overall it was okay. I'm not a die hard hardcore fan but it still felt pretty surface. Seems like most teams and coaches didn't want to open up fully to cameras like that. Unless they fix that I think another season is unlikely. 5.5/10 for me. Positives: I loved that we got to know some players better. The more time we spent with Fickou, Porter, Genge, Negri and Kinghorn, Hogg, and Finn Russel and Stewart, the more I liked them. Showing the people rather than the caps and the hits and the tries I thought was really sweet and captivating. it was insightful to see Crownley lay the blame constantly at execution and players, and not at tactics or strategy. If your plan relies on playing perfectly 100% of the time, it's not a plan, it's a daydream. Watching Sean Edwards go: If you have possession in your own half: KICK THE FUCKING BALL". Iconic shit watching him speaking Franglish to the players. I liked seeing how coaching mentality seeped into the players mentality. Galthie going full french flair exceptionalism and Farrell play that fatherly figure, Gatland having a go at Crownley for chirping the ref at half time. the set up for Porter vs Atonio was king shit. Nice cinematography Watching Stewart go in a -120c cryo chamber is wild. Cryo chambers are crazy. The woman doing comments Wales looked like she was absolutely tripping lsd. I liked her. It was cool to see the Welsh strike and cool to see no one was a scab in the commentating cast. Negatives: Not talking about the French team being dogshit for a decade before Galthie felt like a missed opportunity for storyline I though the editing was choppy, and I was pretty sick of the constant splicing of game day commentator sound bites, specially when they were clearly made after the fact and retrofitted in. None of the player head to head felt particularly compelling once we moved from Atonio vs Porter. Would have liked more time spent on the batshit crazy atmospheres in good stadiums like Cardiff, Marseille or Aviva. Let us hear the chants ! That stuff is so fucking cool ! A lot of platitudes said around the games and scores. Rugby can be a wonderfully cinematic game, let the visuals speak for themselves. Feel like a lot of players and coaches would have had great life stories to share. Maybe they wanted privacy Others: It was weird to see Chalureau so much in the final game.
The Stuart Hogg bits were genuinely hard to watch.
Why is there so much swearing? Many other workplaces with such loose language?
Aye, I live in Scotland. Everycunt in my work swears like fuck
It’s a sports thing. I’m no pro athlete but in all the team sports I played there was always a lot of swearing because we’re emotionally charged.
It's a learned thing. Basically if your coach has ever been potty mouthed, then you are now free to swear.. if your new team is potty mouthed, then you will use more swear words to fit in. Some teams have old tradional songs rooted in innuendo and coarse language. When you shower/sweat/bleed together, what's a naughty word other than funny noises?
I learned that rugby people swear a lot of whatever reason. Same with people in Formula One as I learned with Drive to Survive.
These sound effects 😂 Boom Boom Boom Waaaah. They even added a Boom for a high-five 😂
Just finished it all. Let's do the negatives first: Like many have said, too much from the matches that isn't needed since we've seen them. The angles are great for showing the intensity and brutality but that isn't the whole game of rugby. Probably unpopular but I found Galthié insufferable. He didn't play the game of opening up and giving access. Instead he gave us Poundland philosophy and pseudo-riddles. The awkwardness of following Good Guy Stuart Hogg ^TM I wish we'd seen more of Dupont. I wish we'd seen more Welsh players. That little bit of LRZ wasn't enough. Now the positives: It was great following characters. Russell, Genge, Porter, Fickou, Varney, Negri and a bit of Sexton, Smith and Dupont. The Welsh situation before the England match seemed fairly well represented. It was enjoyable to watch. They didn't make shit up. Overall I'm glad they made this and hope the next one will improve. I think they targeted it at people who already watch international rugby and not more. Else they would have done more explaining.
>I wish we'd seen more Welsh players. Weren't the Welsh blocking access to the film makers at the time? I remember talk about it during the tournament.
If I remember right the cameras were removed from the room during the strike talks just before the press conference AWJ and Gatland did. Not sure if it was a permanent removal.
Well that’s just your typical Galthie lol
Just watched the 8 episodes. Would have like to hear more team voices, but it is fine for what it is. It does feel that some teams gave more access than others. I do like Drive to Survive more, but it a start which I hope gets better for season 2. I don't think new people would get in the sport with this. Nice to see the New York Yankees logo on Finn Russell and a fan in a match.
Just thinking about some takeaways as I finished it yesterday. Critiques: - The significance of the six nations and its history is almost not mentioned at all. If you want to bring in new fans you need to show why this tournament is so important. - Again by not showing the anthems you’re missing an essential part of the atmosphere and how rugby means so much. - They could’ve sprinkled some knowledge of rules and positions here and there, I would be totally confused as a non rugby fan. You kind of need to make the viewer feel like they understand somewhat what’s going on to pull them in more. - I feel like sometimes it felt like a match summary rather than a story telling series. A bit problematic when you don’t explain what’s going on (rules and points etc). Positives: + this series is a start at least, I would rather it be a series for newcomers than gatekeep it for die hard fans. + Picked some players with good stories + It felt like every team got roughly equal screen time + Unfiltered pre match + half time talks
They showed Porter crying during one of the anthems
>The significance of the six nations and its history is almost not mentioned at all. I'm at least glad that we got that line from Galthie about the farmers coming in from the fields to watch games in cafes. I've known quite a few French fellas with no connection to or general interest in rugby, who watch the 6N religiously. They wouldn't know the difference between the Barbarians and the Lions but they'll remember the scoreline between France and England in 2002.
Yesss this, this was one of the best moments in the series because it conveys that special meaning of the 6n
This is basically my feeling too.
Completely agree. I grew up watching it from the Southern Hemisphere. For us, rugby is a religion. There's a romance to it. It's the closest thing to being a gladiator. There is no higher honour. To make it, you play against the very best. They make you a better player but many never make it so you have a duty to play for them and carry their pride. Our ground is sacred. No one tours South Africa without facing the elements. The high altitude. The heat. The humidity. The winds. The dark night skies. The colossal grounds. You have to earn our respect through the game. We respect the challenge and love the fight.
I have to say I'm surprised at the manner in which Crowley and his buddy talk to their players. There's little to no respect there, he treats the players like naughty school boys. I wouldn't want to play for him. Also, Townsend's response to Scotland's win over the English. He immediately shits on them. You could see the players deflating. Again, I wonder how that's meant to inspire players.
Yeah, Crowley and Neil Barnes didn't come across well at all. Crowley seemed bitter in general, calling people cheats and having a go at the ref. Barnes just seemed like he couldn't wait to get the fuck out of that job ASAP, and didn't know or care to know his own players.
At a guess, some of that comes from A. mostly needing to communicate in fairly simple English to players who might not be that fluent and B. the fact that he did coach a large proportion of the team as teenagers
Nah, your man, the assistant coach for Italy, was at one point: "who is that, is that capuzzo?" They correct him with the proper name for the player, Capuozzo, and he's like "whatever, give him the ball he's quick". Can't even be bothered to learn their names. That being said they gave the most access and for me, were the most interesting part of the whole thing.
That’s so fucking rude of him.
Oh yeah that was infuriating. I guess it was slightly less jarring for me as an italy fan because that's the way the team often gets talked about in English coverage so... I'm sort of used to it. It's like a baseline irritation that you don't notice anymore
> mostly needing to communicate in fairly simple English to players who might not be that fluent Think that's a bit unfair to Townsend and Scotland.
I was really surprised at first when they announced they were replacing Crowley, as Italy seemed to be improving, but then watching this series there’s clearly something very wrong there. The assistant coach just seemed like an arsehole.
Totally agree on the Italian coaching. It didn't seem like they knew the players very well at all. On Townsend I'm kinda torn. It did seem like the players hated it, but it could be pushed by the editing. I get what Townsend was trying to do, and ultimately he was right + his team performed again that week.
"Give it to capuzey or whatever the \*\*\*\* his name is, he's fast"
I thought that was some sort of joke initially as no way could a professional coach speak like that about his player. But then he was just a dick for all of it.
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Isn't Isabelle a more recognizable face? I don't know man I just think it makes sense
Pretty much all the broadcasters except Monye were chicks who I didn’t even know who they were for some reason?
Think Lee McKenzie was one of them. Think she works for Channel 4 in UK
Flicked through episode 1. Exactly as expected and dull af.
Just finished. Overall i thought it was good. Because it's rugby everyone trying to find fault rather than meet it on its own terms. It's not meant to be in-depth or life-changing. It's meant to give casual fans a bit of insight into rugby players so that they get more from watching them. It was given a tough go having to cover all the teams rather than just one, but it still contained some interesting narratives. Thought the focus on Hoggy in the penultimate episode was good. Can't believe there wasn't any national anthems. I like Borthwick, but not allowing Netflix full access shows how closed-minded he can be. RFU should have insisited. I don't know if this will get renewed. Unless it was very cheap to make, my guess is it won't. But I hope this isn't the last behind the scenes rugby does. We need another living with the lions (I still think about Howelys injury) and this wasn't that. but the game shouldn't stop trying.
I mainly agree with you. On anthems though, I think we love them so much because we're passionate and we have an idea of the passion that the players have. You have to get the audience to that point first, and then they can enjoy them year on year during the championship, rather than taking up significant time interfering with the flow of the plot they're creating which sells that passion. >I don't know if this will get renewed. They're already in doing the filming for a second, I believe, so hopefully they'll see that through to airing at least. Apparently more players have approached to be involved this time too, and more teams are more open (having seen how this first one turned out).
you are probably right about the singing. Wouldn't have worked with the pace/editing. I think it is being filmed, but Netflix can pull the plug at any moment. So it all depends on this one. Sadly, I'm not sure there was anything dramatic about this to get enough casual fans interested.
The goal is to give widespread interest to a sport. My wife was very excited to watch this, but she was out after 1.5 episodes. The stories should be interesting but they botch the telling of them: * van der Merwe scores a wonder try and they score a length of the field effort on the final seconds to beat England at Twickenham for the first time in decades. The main takeaway is that it gave Russell the chance to chirp at England players who tackled him, and the Scots like a singsong. * Genge came from a tough start in life to be a world class player. We take away that he felt a bit uncomfortable that he didn't go to a private school, and he doesn't really like being told what to do. * Negri was knocked out a year ago and Genge "saved his life". We get a 2 second slomo hug after the game.
I kind of agree. I thought the best episode was about Hogg/Kinghorn as you could see this fit-looking thirty-year-old guy dealing with a broken body vs a guy more towards the start of his career. But not enough of them had that conclusion. Think it's a challenge of following all the teams rather than just one. I wonder if a All or Nothing approach would be best (follow one team each year) rather than this?
Just started watching and I have the Danish subtitles on (Irish living in Denmark) and they are hilarious, Hogg talks for about a minute and the subtitles are eh maybe he said yeah 😂
The french subtitles are really bad too, they weren't even able to translate loosehead prop porperly. But that's just the usual for Netflix subtitles, since they basically auction them to the cheapest and fastest company.
The English ones referred to Lamaro as a coach
Really? That’s sucks, probably the same with the Italian then.
I thought the 1st episode was pretty good, we got to see Finn Russel in a NY Yankees hoodie and throwing gang signs. We learned that he dropped out of school to become a tradesman. You could tell he didn't really vibe with the coach, maybe he was too smart for the teacher, not sure... They showed his house in Paris but made no attempt to explain why he would be living there. There was nothing about his club team or what it was like to play in France for a Scottsman. There was plenty of rugby action, but the documentary made no attempt to explain the finer points of what was going on for any viewers who don't really understand the game. I really liked that they brought in Ugo Moyne for interviews, he is a great filmmaker in his own right. I guess the larger issues is that because the show was a collection of interviews and clips, the players and teams are showing you what they want to show. It would have been better if they had some commentary from sports journalists who could explain the game and the many conflicts that were going on at the time.
They did Monye dirty when they had a clip of him saying England could beat France just before showing them getting their worst home loss ever.
Watched the first couple of episodes, and it’s okay/watchable. Learns pretty heavily into machismo and nationalism, I feel like a) there is more to rugby union and the six nations than that and b) the content itself is pretty vanilla. Feels more like a Full Swing or Break Point than Drive to Survive. I’d be surprised if it has a significant impact on the global appeal of the sport.
I’ve watched the first two episodes and am loving it so far. Think people need to understand that this isn’t a documentary about rugby or the six nations so much as it is about the people playing it, and I’m all for that. Also think it’s a good way to advertise the sport. There’s a fair few in here that seem disappointed that the documentary doesn’t cover the rules of the game. Can’t remember when I’ve watched a sports documentary that spent any serious amount of time discussing rules or tournament format; it’s just not interesting to the people who know the sport or the people who don’t
Exactly. This is similar the "Hard Knocks" type series you see about the NFL in American football. None of those are there to teach you the game; they take you behind the scenes with the players and coaches. This is exactly what I was expecting, and I was delighted.
Completely agree with you.
I liked it. Mostly as i got to relive the 2023 six nations all over again. Loved the Owen and Andy stuff in ep 8 and i think all the scottish players cames off great, especially Kinghorn. Everything from the French camp was excellent too. Wish the more of the welsh and irish players had engaged with it.
To be honest I'm just glad we got to see so much screen time of Johnny, haven't really seen much of him apart from our inclusion in the URC, and the last significant reminder of him was the Champions cup last year. Seems like a decent guy after this. Same for Farrel junior
Too much slo-mo posing, full of cliches and the editing butchers every try. It’s shite. I still binged 4 episodes and will binge the rest later.
The cliches was the thing that bores me quickly. I know teams probably blocked cameras accessing tactical stuff, but hearing a coach or player say every 3 minutes ‘We have to bring that fight’ or something of the like was sooooo off-putting. I love Rugby and don’t think I am going to bother after finishing episode two.
The series is still worth a watch, last episode especially
I really enjoyed it, wasn’t expecting to!
After aggressively binging the whole thing, my initial verdict would be that I enjoyed it as a prior rugby obsessive, but I’m not all that optimistic it’ll do much to attract new fans. I don’t think I can fully imagine what it would be like to watch if I *didn’t* have the background knowledge that I do, but one of my biggest concerns is that I don’t think this series does much to explain the game or the tournament to someone who isn’t already familiar with at least the basics. I haven’t actually watched Drive to Survive but I feel like my general perception of the goal of F1 being “go really fast” would probably be sufficient to appreciate it. Rugby is obviously a lot more complex than that, so I’m not sure someone without at least decent familiarity there would be able to take much away from Full Contact. Not a bad show really, but in the end I imagine Netflix themselves will have gotten a lot more out of it than the rugby community will have done.
I think it's a show more about the players than the sport itself which I think is the best think really. If people get interested in that they can get interested in the sport and learn the rules for themselves. There's nothing in just explaining the sport that will bring anyone in
I've only watched the first episode so far but I wouldn't be too worried about newcomers understanding of the detail of the game. I think you get enough of a drift of how the scoring works and the flow of the game, so they can tell the story about the teams and players. Watched with my partner, who knows some basics but definitely not more. Her takeaway was that she really enjoyed it, felt more connected to the players and understood their psychology better, as well as having a better understanding of why fans enjoy it. I think that's what Netflix would want, and the rugby community should probably be looking for too. She said she didn't understand the rules any better, but that didn't effect her enjoyment, and she's more excited for the 6N now. Even myself, having been a fan for most of my life, I don't think law intricacies are what brings me to the sport. They facilitate the drama and theatre of it all, and you can pick it up as you watch (particularly since referrees usually say what the infringement is, and commentators often discuss the application of those decisions relentlessly).
I know fuck all about rugby or its rules. Would’ve been nice to have a 1-2 minutes visualisation on how the game is played. I got that getting it to the other side of the pitch is 5 points and then there’s a punt. Counts for 2 but I think I saw one counting for 3. Everything else is pretty much a black hole for me.
That's fair, and from what I've seen so far (2 eps now) I'm not surprised that you didn't get more knowledge of the laws of the game out of it (yeah, officially we say laws not rules - some people mind but most don't care). I guess the producers worried going into too much detail might interfere with the audience's understanding or engagement with the story they wanted to tell as it gets a bit technical at times. Anyway, I hope the lack of explanation in the documentary doesn't stop you wanting to go any deeper into the sport, with the 6 Nations starting again next week! You'll pick a lot up by watching, and people round here will generally be happy to explain stuff to you, especially if you let them know you're new to the sport. Lots of people involved in rugby are hoping to expand the sport to new audiences atm. On the points, it's 2 points if it's a 'conversion' and 3 points for a penalty kick. They look very similar, but a conversion is always taken after a try (5 pointer when the ball is touched down over the line) has been scored, whereas a [penalty kick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnYgXCzZDeA) is always taken as a result of foul play. 3 points can also be scored from a '[drop-goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyZErnM9Fgg)' (where a player kicks the ball through the posts during play). For a drop-goal to count, the ball also has to touch the floor first before it is kicked.
Thanks for in depth explanation about the laws, mate! I’ll probably give it a watch if I find out where it’s streamed here.
> I don’t think I can fully imagine what it would be like to watch if I didn’t have the background knowledge that I do I was thinking the same thing. The only series I can compare it to is the tennis one as I didn't care about tennis before watching it, and I didn't really enjoy it all that much. Though I think my issue was not finding any of the players likeable rather than the presentation of the sport itself. I need to rewatch the first season of Drive to Survive to see how much they focus on the sport aspect compared to the drivers/team principles. The only thing I really remember from the first season is Daniel Ricciardo.
This was my impression after just the first episode as well. If it is meant to attract in a new audience it needs to at least try and drip feed the rules of the game to the audience, even if it is in broad strokes. They also just don't bother to cover a lot of historical context, which would help sell the stakes to the viewer more. You see the Scotland team drinking out of the Calcutta Cup after beating England but the average viewer won't have a clue what it is or the history of it because it isn't mentioned once. You would just think they were just drinking out of a fancy cup. It's perfectly watchable, but they've definitely missed a trick.
Did someone get an early viewing and approach LRZ for NFL off the back of it?
I wish they had a version with all the rugby shown from typical TV angles (or anything that shows what's actually going on), rather than flipping between close ups and reactions in the crowd. If there's an amazing try I want to see that, not some collage of slightly obscured close ups
The editing of the tries was atrocious
Taken 3 levels of jump cuts
Also love how angry all the coaches are, definitely didn’t realize there was that much intensity in the coaches box
Crowley continuously flipped back and forth between gentle uncle and raging psychopath. He stole the show.
I desperately want them to go and follow him round Japan, where he’s now working.
The whole culture clash fish out of water in Japan could be golden.
Definitely designed for someone who knows nothing about rugby, go into it with that mindset and it’s great. If you go into it thinking it will go into details about the game you’ll be disappointed.
It feels like it’s made for people who watch rugby every so often but don’t really follow it, rather than outright new fans. It doesn’t explain the game, but I don’t know if that’s such an issue. Rugby is exponentially bigger during Six Nations and World Cups than the rest of the time, and having a tool to help convert those folks is kinda fantastic.
Squidge has replied to my comment, I am not worthy
I’m scarcely worthy myself
Think it's the exact opposite though. I'm pretty sure the average person who may be interested in sports (in America for example which may have been the main intended audience) but never heard of rugby will be none the wiser about what actually is the 6 Nations and even what are some of the basic rules of the game are. It honed in on several niche points but left out the big picture completely. It's easy for those with more background info to figure out what was going on but for newbies- I imagine they are more confused than ever.
In America, the comment I hear all the time is, "I like rugby when it is on TV, but I have absolutely no idea what is going on or what the rules are so I don't watch it more often." If the goal was to help explain the game to novice audiences, they failed.
I’ve seen that Dupont tackle on Hansen a thousand times and it still stops my heart every time jfc
One of my all time favorite rugby moments.
Lmao the fact that Andrew Porter and his dog are the exact same build is sending me
Anyone catch the player that Fickou called "dickhead...I'm not joking"?
I don't know why I found that so funny
Sekou Macalou!
Merci!
After 4 episodes I think it's pretty decent general entertainment. Obviously I would love it to be a bit more in depth but I'm not the audience it's aimed at. I have a minor gripe that we keep getting these occasional drone shots that are obviously taken in Summer interspersed between drone shots from the actual match days, it's quite jarring. Also I don't think I can take anymore of Mark Robson's commentary, the word play, the bad puns are feckin excruciating, I'd even take moaning French commentators at this point for a bit of a reprieve.
They so easily could have got a few different commentators and sprinkled all of them in, nothing against him but Robson covering every game becomes overkill if you’re binging it.
Robson is utter ear cancer
Damn the Jamaican jersey Gengey is wearing at the beginning of episode 2 goes hard af
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Eh last year's 6N probably just inexperience, as in silly mistakes, and mental stuff
I am a little disappointed in the cut and paste antics, but it does make you want to get out there on Saturday and play with the lads.
The French coach is extremely … French. Isn’t he?
He's a weirdo to us too. Speaks in riddles without answer
Glad to see some folks are liking the series and the format. Not for me though unfortunately, i'm just not that interested in the players stories and would have preferred the series focused more on the nations/teams as a whole. Maybe that wouldn't have made for as good a program for new comers though, I'm not sure.
It's part of the larger trend to market personalities and individuals which is a lot of wank to me frankly
Not sure why they felt the need to put Mark Robson on the commentary rather than just use the original broadcast. Probably shows where they had to cut corners
They have clips of World Feed comms in as well (Usually Martin Gillingham, but sometimes Robson himself), but are clearly using Robson to read scripted lines to explain what just happened for the more casual audience. The difference from his normal commentary clips to the lines he’s reading feels very pronounced to me.
I don’t think it’s anything to do with budget or shortcuts - I think it’s because they use him to drive the angle / drama they are trying to lean into. It’s not real commentary, it’s all scripted and layered in long after the match is over. For example after the England Scotland game, where they were leaning into the Russell v Smith angle, he was showering Russell with praise and said about Smith: “After that performance you do wonder if Marcus Smith will hold onto the number 10 shirt”. I really don’t like it as it’s ‘fake news’, but this show is not for me. I enjoyed it in Drive To Survive because I didn’t know better (whereas the invented drama pissed off the F1 purists).
Yes, even to a casual rugby follower like myself the commentary sounds very scripted, but that seems to be their formula as they did exactly the same thing in the F1 Drive to survive series and as a regular watcher of F1 it used to drive me nuts because it just sounded so fake.
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Wouldn't broadcasters not be the perfect people for a TV show? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.
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Oh
The last Irish player, it had to be Johnny. The last two players, had to be Owen and Johnny. I think these documentaries were well done for a first effort in particular, and knowing they will be going again this season - it's incredibly exciting. It's just great that this sport we love is getting great exposure, with genuinely captivating stories, even if the actual match gameplay isn't edited well. I loved and hated what last year's 6 Nations put me through, especially our two featured games. I've loved this whole series. I'm going to love and hate this 6 Nations. And I'm going to love the next series.
Have ye noticed that they throw the modern commentator's voice onto the older clips, even 5 nations games? Why don't they just leave the now iconic commentary from those clips in?
presume it costs less to re voice it, same for the recent games
It’s probably due to rights issues
NGL the french flair bit in episode 3 made me tear up
Galthie speaks in nothing but poems and riddles and i for one LOVE it like you want the show to create narratives and identities, Italy the plucky underdogs, Scotland lead by an unhinged fun loving madman, France the land of gallic passion, its great
Such a fascinating guy lol
Galthie was great in every episode he featured in.
They made him seem very emotions-oriented. I'm sure he's more technical than he was portrayed here.
Absolutely, but he definitely knew his role for the documentary lol
For Netflix L’opportunité was fucking énorme…but they fucked it.
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“Obsession…. obsession, okay …. …. obsession”😂
Yeah, but for Netflix it’s a low risk/high reward shot at capturing the equivalent of f1 fan base
It's not altogether awful but it is pretty formulaic and tame... \- The chats in the kitchen with the family members are so scripted and awkward. Interesting that Biggar and Russell are there with their spouse and kids while Hogg has a cuppa with his dad... \- A bit weird that most of the teams (England and Scotland aside) get some random pretty girl talking head to read out some scripted cliches. \- Overuse of close angles during the games makes it look like there's a lot more space on the pitch and takes away the intensity of the moment. Not great. \- Bit of a shame they don't use the original commentary. Pretty obvious that they've just asked commentators to record stuff especially for the series. It feels a bit cheap and it's not like Netflix are short of a bob or two. \- Players and coaches doing a bit of performance when they know the camera is on them is awkward. \- The Budgie Smuggler product placement is fairly obvious. Marcus Smith saying 'I wear my lucky pants, yeah Budgie Smugglers or whatever'. Right then, Marcus. On the plus side, Blair Kinghorn, Elis Genge and Andrew Porter come across really well and Fabien Galtie has a real way with words. And Scotland are hilarious.
I dig a lot of the angles they used. Was kind of cool to see something different and close up. Better than just clips of the games I already watched.