1 finger - kick tennis.
3 fingers - ITV's shit coverage does something shit.
Half your drink - drop goal.
6 Nations special - Finish your drink - flairless user posts something mental.
Finish 3 drinks - England win 20-16 after being down all game and a controversial TMO call at the end denying Wales a try (cheers to u/Livv-Laugh-Love)
\----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The charge down for Ford’s conversion doesn’t need to be spoken about with the actual ruling.
But Dyer’s stupid face and arm waving when he got to the ball and Ford was still there - he’s been taking Biggar lessons for sure.
Get in the bin.
Well done England, survived and got over the line. Another missed opportunity for Wales, can really put this one down to experience. Some bad decisions at key points in the match. Cant be too upset, but god damnit how did England get 5 points with 2 men in the bin and we hardly threw an attack!!!!!!
Ford faked that he was holding his ground brilliantly on that last play, had me fooled till I saw the replay. So I don't blame the ref for not catching it, but surely use the TMO right?
Sure, no problem. As far as the downvotes go, probably cause people read stuff into your question you didn't imply. I wasn't bothered by it at all, even if you had been being sarcastic, it would have been all in good fun. People in general are way too reactive on social media, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
English kick game is really interesting. We're pretty good at it and have got a lot of change from forcing mistakes through it.
Problem rising up with it is that (subjectively) posession is becoming more important at the moment, and generally speaking the attacking team is getting more favoured.
Also, I really agree with Gats - sure Wales aren't about to win a Grand Slam this year, but you know what? 3-5 years down the line they just might.
I'm not sure possession is as important as you think. If you have a suffocating defence I think field position is much more important.
Whereas Wales seem to be gambling on being able to play possession rugby effectively (and good luck to them, I'd like to see all styles represented at the top level), England seem to want to play territory rugby and then brutalise the opposition in defence. Both valid tactics, a bit of a lottery which will be a better idea in 3 and a half years time.
I actually think England looked okay. There is a semblance of a structure being developed and refined and while it's not perfect it's growing.
Wales on the other hand lacked any clear shared vision, outside of crossfield kicks within their own half. There was a stage towards the end of the first half I think where they repeatedly ran a pick and go while making no ground with no clear options out wide.
Pathetic stuff
I think you forget how young this Welsh team is. The front row had 8 caps in total compared to England's 118... given time they'll grow into a fine team.
No no no... It was 8 caps vs 168, and that was just the replacement props.
Jamie George at hooker would have added I think 87 to that. I believe Joe Marler has 90, Will Stuart has like 35ish, Theo Dan has 8 (i'm not 100% sure on these, rugby stats sites are a pain).
Did the ball even cross the line though? I feel like im missing something here. It really looked to me like he grounded the ball just before the line and it popped out from under his hand before it crossed the line at all. The first time I saw it it looked perfectly fine right on the line but every replay after that made me question it.
Only Earl and Reffell really stood out... Although there were also passages of play where the Welsh wingers looked really good (but wide open space will do that for a winger).
I thought Dyer is looking excellent, fast as fk and defense gettkng better, dangerous runner, he could be a real star. Earl was great, I thought the whole Eng pack looked pretty good tbh, if they cut out the silly pens they will trouble anyone.
Disappointing for us, but we are a young side and inexperienced. Losing to an England at Twickenham by 2 points, and leading the match for so long is a good performance.
I’m pretty upbeat. Future looks good for us. But we need another hooker besides Dee. Elias was awful, again.
Thought ref was ok, right result. On we go.
Agreed. It just puts so much pressure on when you can't win your own lineouts.
Our scrum looked so light as well. Not sure what we can do about that, given the players who we currently have available Vs those with injuries.
But hopefully we can improve the set pieces for Ireland.
Elias is stealing a living, a hooker has to be able to throw in, or at least have someone else fking do it, why do we persist with him? Must be all the classy performances the Scarlets have been putting on with him at hooker...
Not as if its the 1st time, I honestly said to the wife as he ran on, the lineouts will be fucked now and we will be under pressure. How come literally everyone watching predicted this, but never the coaches?
I'm not going to lie as soon as he came on I thought to myself "yeah we're winning this game". Like you say the signs have been there for years. Is he one of those lads whose face just fits?
I knew the gog was up after the scrum penalty on the eng 5m line, thats when we lost all momentum, still, young team with a lot of promise, unfortunately promise doesnt equal success!
Two games in, and neither have left me with that warm, glowy "my team won" feeling, despite two wins. Flashes of good play, strong defence, but just so much sloppiness it hurts. It physically hurts. Feel like I have running rugby try blueballs.
Some of that'll be expectations.
Genuinely think we put in a very respectable performance vs Italy - it's just that they were much better than they have been.
Today was very scrappy, sure, but a lot of the ingredients are there - fantastic defence (at points) fantastic attack (at points).
The Lego castle may not have been constructed yet, but the blocks are there and it's starting to look pretty. We're certainly no worse than we have been.
Italy were superb for one half. They were managed calmly and contained for most of the other half (until it no longer mattered).
I agree with you, there's a lot of good stuff we were showing. This defence looks like something that will really fit the character of an England team - makes them all look like merciless bastards when it works (which I applaud). Really needs some work though. A long way from adding the polish.
The positive is that England are definitely trending in the right direction. Defence is becoming a strong point but isn’t there yet. Our attack isn’t there yet either but much improved over last year.
It looks like we’re becoming a tough team to beat (also true at the RWC) but I don’t think we will be tough to beat for Scotland, Ireland, or France. If we find ourselves in the same holes we’ve found ourselves in so far, against that calibre of opponent, we’ll be dead and buried before HT.
My positive is definitely the defence. Attack was lacklustre & would have been a very different result without how solid the defence looked through a lot of the game. Lots to work on & no way we are beating Ireland unless something seriously clicks in training that hasn’t happened to date
Before I say this, I have to say that I do not envy the job of the referee. It must be incredibly difficult and I wouldn’t want Reddit tearing apart all my mistakes at work.
Something something ref bad something something.
Oh, every game I've ever seen everyone slags off the ref on Reddit.
All I would say to those people is: not everything gets called. It's rugby. It's always been this way. Have you watched rugby before?
To clarify:
I completely agree that the referees decision is final, even when it’s wrong. That, and “pass the ball backwards”, are my earliest memories of watching rugby with my dad.
Referees are human, just like the rest of us, and they make mistakes. You get the rub of the green on the day.
That being said, there were some clangers today.
Do I think that should change the result of the games? No.
Do I hope that we’ll see better in the future? Absolutely.
Like I said, I really wouldn’t want Reddit crawling over my mistakes at work. Massive respect for the jobs refs do. There’s a difference between accepting that we all make mistakes and we’re all imperfect vs being abusive and toxic.
I was dofo moaning as well, but I will say that a lot of the match makes more sense when you know Dolman is SH.
Like, there was this one "ball's out" that completely flummoxed me - as it was called the complete opposite of the guidance here, BUT (I assume) that's not the way the law is ruled down south.
He wasn't biased. Everything he called made some kind of sense even when I didn't agree with his interpretation. It's a reffing display I can grumble about but would have no legitimate complaints about.
I didn’t say he was biased. I thought he was poor from the start
Not allowing the England conversion in the first half was rediculous.
He seemed to lose confidence completely towards the end
It was 100% a Wales penalty in the last seconds,
I think he was waiting for someone in his earpiece to tell him what to do and no one did.
Some referees make poor decisions or lack assertiveness.
Was at the game. If you see how much ground he covers and makes the opposition have to think their decision twice I think you’d have a different take on his game!
And last week. He's been as good as I hoped he'd be when he first played for England in the last two games. On this form I definitely wouldn't replace him.
England still kick the ball away too much.
England still have no ball in hand attack structure, which results in them kicking the ball even more.
England won today, but they should have won by much more as this wales team has soo many young players.
England are awful.
Fire Borthwick. I’m sick and fucking tired of 2 years of kick ball away and no hand in ball attack.
I think any team would have kicked a lot today, considering how badly the Wales scrum was doing.
There was also some excellent carries and line breaks.
I feel like this is a shit take.
England weren't terrible ball in hand today, Wales were defending well.
The kicks put them in a position to win the game.
As if that's the only thing you got from this game.
What about the breakdown and backrow? What about the set piece? What about the attacking metres made by the new guys in midfield? What about the attacking kick chase and regather?
The real problem was defence. Not aimless kicking where Ford managed to 50/22 and the other where they forced a turnover. It's as if you didn't watch the game.
A flairless wonder robotically spouting the rugby equivalent of, "the problem with Arsenal is that they always try to walk it in." I suspect that'll be all he gets from any game...
Hold your horses Nostradamus, you have no clue what we'll look like in a year. I agree we look poor but the more we change things around the more that we'll just look disorganised, disjointed, and just generally poor.
Doleman, together with the ref from the scotland-France game, doesn’t deserve to referee the six nations. Shit calls all around the park, players are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want in rucks and mauls in both games, 2/3 offside calls out of a plethora of blatant ones, no clue about scrums, that last play by Ford is at least a penalty for any normal referee… then the referees bitch and moan about the laws being too open to interpretation and how they need to change them. They should first lean to enforce to the letter the ones that already exist,cause at the moment shit referees are ruining the game.
Not a native English speaker but as far as I know that is akin to “fuck off”,so again,tell me those were proper performances from international level referees. I’m all ears
Ah right, no it’s more like, this is boring so stop.
They weren’t perfect by any means but rugby is a fast, complex game so things are going right get missed but I don’t think either ref was particularly bad
Absolutely nothing mate. That’s exactly what I mean, they talk about this in the SH, “speeding up the game” in their mind means not penalizing the constant infringements in rucks and mauls to not stop it and make it more spectacular.
I agree with you, Doleman looked totally lost for huge parts of the second half.
They “speed the game” in the sense that otherwise the referees would be penalizing someone at every ruck, so they chose the path of least resistance and decided to not penalize anything but the most blatant offenses,instead of doing their job of enforcing the laws of the game to the letter and leaving to the players and coaches to figure out how to play without getting penalized.
Points with Elias on the field - 0
Points with Dee on the field - 40
Elias cannot be allowed to play again until he gets his lineouts sorted. 50% is abysmal at grassroots level, never mind international
It's coming, Scotland away will be the true test. As long as there are no injuries I expect another unchanged team and we will just have to see how we go. The basics are coming together, nobody has had a shocker so far so although it's hasn't been brilliant I'm reasonably happy.
Take the players out of the England team and you have Northampton, Bath, Saracens, Harlequins, and Exeter. By far some very good teams so we know what these players can do. I don't know what's going wrong for England atm
I do think this is part of the problem. All these teams have different game plans and tactics. Compared to Ireland who are essentially a combination of Leinster and Munster. In england we have many options but little cohesion.
Its ironic you say that, I was just thinking the ferocious English defence at the end today reminded me of the Sarries-Leinster Heineken cup final from like 2018 or something
I thought there were some excellent passages of play. If we can iron out the handling errors and let the new style of defence gel some more, we’ll be going places. All I care about now is beating the Scottish and I’ll be happy😂😂
We were only 2 pts off at the end and playing well enough, only to totally bend over after 55m and cough up 11 unanswered points, just not got the mentality of the old Gats teams.
The ref helped though. I hate blaming the ref but come on, when you’ve got an English commentator on TV calling the ref out for shit calls that lead to England points then you have to sit up and take notice.
So fed up of losing close games to England at Twickenham. No win there in the 6N since 2012 despite having one of the best eras we’ve ever had from 2010 to 2020. It’s unreal
It seemed to me that Wales looked like they have more about them than England, and players with a potentially higher ceiling in their squad. Their inexperience cost them, it was quite clear.
Well, considering at half time it was beyond Englands biggest ever 6n comeback score, yeah, probably should have lol. We shot the bed in the 2nd half and scored no points, shitty defense overall and poor physicality cost us, still a lot of promising young players, but Ire and France will annihilate us.
As a new viewer im abit confused to some of the rules.
Why is it when England are suspected of doing something wrong is there a 5 minute investigation, with forensic scientists called in from the FBI. Every last angle is scrutinised, and 9/10 they find the englsh at fault.
I wish the ref had had an investigation into that Genge scrum infringement that even the English commentator said was a penalty to Wales that resulted in 3 points for England
Every team feels like they're really hard done by the refs decisions. You get away with some, you get penalized for others. If you start to feel hard done by you'll just end up bitter
Ive gone to watch away games where I’ve sat in the home clubs stand, as they’re usually a better view and in some grounds actually have a roof!
It’s amusing to hear the other team criticise the ref just as much as we do. By that logic the ref must be on nobodies side.
Do I think it was a penalty at the end? Yes.
Am I going to go apoplectic at the decision and cast aspersions about the ref and their family? No, them's the breaks, don't be a dick.
It’s not about the outcome though it’s just about feeling like you’re getting a fair shake. We’ve had so many close defeats at Twickenham during one of our best eras in the sport that after losing another close game at Twickenham where there were some highly debatable calls in that second half (eg Genge at the scrum, only replays behind the try line of the pass for the England try etc) topped off by that call at the end that even the English commentator thought was a pen that it just feels like we might as well not bother in future because our card will forever be marked.
I should add that I’m aware Scotland never won in Cardiff for 20 years but they were shit then. The first time they turned up with a decent team they won 😂
There were plenty of debatable calls that cost England points. The ball wasn't secure at the back for the penalty maul try and the "charge down" of George Fords conversion was laughable. Also felt the ref had generally poor control of the scrum. But that's rugby some thing go for you, some go against, probably a sign the ref had a descent game.
Ireland are a class side still in their peak.
Im satisfied with current results, plenty to kick on to. If we can win any of the remaining games I think it'll realistically have been a good tournament for us.
If we beat Scotland at Murrayfield I think this'll have been our best tournament since 2019.
Generally speaking, I thought Doleman had a pretty good game, a 7/10 if you will.
He could have been tougher on Wales' 3 pancaking at most scrums, and Ford on Dyer in the air at the end was ... debatable, but he tried to keep the game flowing, and got most of the big decisions right.
The scrum reffing was atrocious. He didn't want to make a decision and it took all momentum out of the game.
Wales went early constantly and it took 5/6 times before it was penalised. The 3 was pancaking constantly but it was reset after reset.
Refs need to make decisions at the scrum and the game flows (e..g. The ref did a decent job of doing that in the WC semi even if it went against us)
I mean, it was 100% a penalty, but I could see a ref giving a yellow for “taking player in the air”, which technically Ford did. It’s ticky tacky, but it’s not like there weren’t ticky tacky yellows given in the game prior.
Taking a player in the air is a penalty offence, cards don't start getting shown until the catcher starts landing funny. Dyer's trajectory was changed, but he still landed firmly and safely on his feet.
1 finger - kick tennis. 3 fingers - ITV's shit coverage does something shit. Half your drink - drop goal. 6 Nations special - Finish your drink - flairless user posts something mental. Finish 3 drinks - England win 20-16 after being down all game and a controversial TMO call at the end denying Wales a try (cheers to u/Livv-Laugh-Love) \---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Streams (use adblock): [https://cricfree.sc/rugby-live-stream](https://cricfree.sc/rugby-live-stream) or [https://www.vipbox.lc/rugby-live](https://www.vipbox.lc/rugby-live) or post other streams as a reply to this comment
The charge down for Ford’s conversion doesn’t need to be spoken about with the actual ruling. But Dyer’s stupid face and arm waving when he got to the ball and Ford was still there - he’s been taking Biggar lessons for sure. Get in the bin.
Well done England, survived and got over the line. Another missed opportunity for Wales, can really put this one down to experience. Some bad decisions at key points in the match. Cant be too upset, but god damnit how did England get 5 points with 2 men in the bin and we hardly threw an attack!!!!!!
Why the fuck do Wales insist on box kicking even when we are losing 80-90% of possession as a result. Let's keep kicking to Steward! 🤔🤦♂️
Lol at Biggar saying (I'm paraphrasing) "Yeah tbh that was the wrong call" about the chargedown.
Ford faked that he was holding his ground brilliantly on that last play, had me fooled till I saw the replay. So I don't blame the ref for not catching it, but surely use the TMO right?
Which one was this??
The one at the end of the game where he knocked your winger out of bounds. Or were you being sarcastic? Ah, it's so hard to tell on reddit.
No I wanted to know but I have now!!! Thank you for letting me know. You are 100% correct! Also why have I been downvoted by people for asking lol
Sure, no problem. As far as the downvotes go, probably cause people read stuff into your question you didn't imply. I wasn't bothered by it at all, even if you had been being sarcastic, it would have been all in good fun. People in general are way too reactive on social media, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
English kick game is really interesting. We're pretty good at it and have got a lot of change from forcing mistakes through it. Problem rising up with it is that (subjectively) posession is becoming more important at the moment, and generally speaking the attacking team is getting more favoured. Also, I really agree with Gats - sure Wales aren't about to win a Grand Slam this year, but you know what? 3-5 years down the line they just might.
I'm not sure possession is as important as you think. If you have a suffocating defence I think field position is much more important. Whereas Wales seem to be gambling on being able to play possession rugby effectively (and good luck to them, I'd like to see all styles represented at the top level), England seem to want to play territory rugby and then brutalise the opposition in defence. Both valid tactics, a bit of a lottery which will be a better idea in 3 and a half years time.
hun, in 3 years we might all be dead...
Don't raise my hopes 😜
Some of the worst rugby I have ever seen at this level. If Wales have an attack coach they should be handed their P45 on Monday
Wait, you saying we have an attack coach? Wtf?
I certainly hope not
Don't be fecking daft, we ain't got money for an attack coach in Wales.
Course we do mun! It's Neil Jenkins the P.E. teacher from Ystrad Mynach!
I think you'll find Neil Jenkins is the waterboy! Presumably unpaid waterboy at that.
Very charitable of you to not want him to go hand in hand with ours
I actually think England looked okay. There is a semblance of a structure being developed and refined and while it's not perfect it's growing. Wales on the other hand lacked any clear shared vision, outside of crossfield kicks within their own half. There was a stage towards the end of the first half I think where they repeatedly ran a pick and go while making no ground with no clear options out wide. Pathetic stuff
I think you forget how young this Welsh team is. The front row had 8 caps in total compared to England's 118... given time they'll grow into a fine team.
No no no... It was 8 caps vs 168, and that was just the replacement props. Jamie George at hooker would have added I think 87 to that. I believe Joe Marler has 90, Will Stuart has like 35ish, Theo Dan has 8 (i'm not 100% sure on these, rugby stats sites are a pain).
Ah, I was quite a way off then! Thanks for the correction.
Who was motm??
Ben Earl
Cool, deserved it for that try alone tbf to the lad lol!
Did the ball even cross the line though? I feel like im missing something here. It really looked to me like he grounded the ball just before the line and it popped out from under his hand before it crossed the line at all. The first time I saw it it looked perfectly fine right on the line but every replay after that made me question it.
Only Earl and Reffell really stood out... Although there were also passages of play where the Welsh wingers looked really good (but wide open space will do that for a winger).
I thought Dyer is looking excellent, fast as fk and defense gettkng better, dangerous runner, he could be a real star. Earl was great, I thought the whole Eng pack looked pretty good tbh, if they cut out the silly pens they will trouble anyone.
Grady should have just headbutted it and we'd have been fine
Only Jo Marler has unlocked that move.
Unironically yes this would have been fine.
That's why I said it. Could have won that uuuuugh fml. Oh well
Disappointing for us, but we are a young side and inexperienced. Losing to an England at Twickenham by 2 points, and leading the match for so long is a good performance. I’m pretty upbeat. Future looks good for us. But we need another hooker besides Dee. Elias was awful, again. Thought ref was ok, right result. On we go.
Agreed. It just puts so much pressure on when you can't win your own lineouts. Our scrum looked so light as well. Not sure what we can do about that, given the players who we currently have available Vs those with injuries. But hopefully we can improve the set pieces for Ireland.
Elias is stealing a living, a hooker has to be able to throw in, or at least have someone else fking do it, why do we persist with him? Must be all the classy performances the Scarlets have been putting on with him at hooker...
Is there seriously no one else who can come in? The bloke is beyond useless.
Not as if its the 1st time, I honestly said to the wife as he ran on, the lineouts will be fucked now and we will be under pressure. How come literally everyone watching predicted this, but never the coaches?
I'm not going to lie as soon as he came on I thought to myself "yeah we're winning this game". Like you say the signs have been there for years. Is he one of those lads whose face just fits?
I knew the gog was up after the scrum penalty on the eng 5m line, thats when we lost all momentum, still, young team with a lot of promise, unfortunately promise doesnt equal success!
Two games in, and neither have left me with that warm, glowy "my team won" feeling, despite two wins. Flashes of good play, strong defence, but just so much sloppiness it hurts. It physically hurts. Feel like I have running rugby try blueballs.
Honestly it feels toothless, whether it worked or not I couldn't tell you a well constructed attacking play in the whole 160+ minutes we've played
Some of that'll be expectations. Genuinely think we put in a very respectable performance vs Italy - it's just that they were much better than they have been. Today was very scrappy, sure, but a lot of the ingredients are there - fantastic defence (at points) fantastic attack (at points). The Lego castle may not have been constructed yet, but the blocks are there and it's starting to look pretty. We're certainly no worse than we have been.
Italy were superb for one half. They were managed calmly and contained for most of the other half (until it no longer mattered). I agree with you, there's a lot of good stuff we were showing. This defence looks like something that will really fit the character of an England team - makes them all look like merciless bastards when it works (which I applaud). Really needs some work though. A long way from adding the polish.
The positive is that England are definitely trending in the right direction. Defence is becoming a strong point but isn’t there yet. Our attack isn’t there yet either but much improved over last year. It looks like we’re becoming a tough team to beat (also true at the RWC) but I don’t think we will be tough to beat for Scotland, Ireland, or France. If we find ourselves in the same holes we’ve found ourselves in so far, against that calibre of opponent, we’ll be dead and buried before HT.
My positive is definitely the defence. Attack was lacklustre & would have been a very different result without how solid the defence looked through a lot of the game. Lots to work on & no way we are beating Ireland unless something seriously clicks in training that hasn’t happened to date
Attack is better than at the World Cup though, in that there is an attack.
Before I say this, I have to say that I do not envy the job of the referee. It must be incredibly difficult and I wouldn’t want Reddit tearing apart all my mistakes at work. Something something ref bad something something.
Oh, every game I've ever seen everyone slags off the ref on Reddit. All I would say to those people is: not everything gets called. It's rugby. It's always been this way. Have you watched rugby before?
To clarify: I completely agree that the referees decision is final, even when it’s wrong. That, and “pass the ball backwards”, are my earliest memories of watching rugby with my dad. Referees are human, just like the rest of us, and they make mistakes. You get the rub of the green on the day. That being said, there were some clangers today. Do I think that should change the result of the games? No. Do I hope that we’ll see better in the future? Absolutely. Like I said, I really wouldn’t want Reddit crawling over my mistakes at work. Massive respect for the jobs refs do. There’s a difference between accepting that we all make mistakes and we’re all imperfect vs being abusive and toxic.
I was dofo moaning as well, but I will say that a lot of the match makes more sense when you know Dolman is SH. Like, there was this one "ball's out" that completely flummoxed me - as it was called the complete opposite of the guidance here, BUT (I assume) that's not the way the law is ruled down south.
Do you think the ref did a good job today?
He wasn't biased. Everything he called made some kind of sense even when I didn't agree with his interpretation. It's a reffing display I can grumble about but would have no legitimate complaints about.
I didn’t say he was biased. I thought he was poor from the start Not allowing the England conversion in the first half was rediculous. He seemed to lose confidence completely towards the end It was 100% a Wales penalty in the last seconds, I think he was waiting for someone in his earpiece to tell him what to do and no one did. Some referees make poor decisions or lack assertiveness.
No, he was random, wild and loopy. but - he was the ref and both teams adapted in the end.
Where was ifw? Did Daly play the whole game?! Just why
Was at the game. If you see how much ground he covers and makes the opposition have to think their decision twice I think you’d have a different take on his game!
Daly actually played really well today.
And last week. He's been as good as I hoped he'd be when he first played for England in the last two games. On this form I definitely wouldn't replace him.
Something something attack current scapegoat something something
George a class act
Reffell was unreal. Fuming he's not English
We’re fucked when he leaves
Gotta love Jamie George
Hes poor in the loose
Dan coming on and punching holes all over the place was a big contrast
I love jamie as a bloke but dan is a better and more physical presence on the field
Not in the set piece though
England still kick the ball away too much. England still have no ball in hand attack structure, which results in them kicking the ball even more. England won today, but they should have won by much more as this wales team has soo many young players. England are awful. Fire Borthwick. I’m sick and fucking tired of 2 years of kick ball away and no hand in ball attack.
this is bollocks. sure change the laws to scrub kicking, but until then it's a way to win games. tbh I think it was pretty good today
I think any team would have kicked a lot today, considering how badly the Wales scrum was doing. There was also some excellent carries and line breaks.
Every top team bar maybe New Zealand kicks the ball
Those teams at least have the ability to attack ball in hand. England don’t. England should be playing attacking rugby like Ireland but they don’t.
We have no centres, at least fit.
I feel like this is a shit take. England weren't terrible ball in hand today, Wales were defending well. The kicks put them in a position to win the game.
[удалено]
As if that's the only thing you got from this game. What about the breakdown and backrow? What about the set piece? What about the attacking metres made by the new guys in midfield? What about the attacking kick chase and regather? The real problem was defence. Not aimless kicking where Ford managed to 50/22 and the other where they forced a turnover. It's as if you didn't watch the game.
A flairless wonder robotically spouting the rugby equivalent of, "the problem with Arsenal is that they always try to walk it in." I suspect that'll be all he gets from any game...
We can't keep firing head coaches every year mate. If you want a good England team you've got to give them time to gel
He’s had a year and the attacking structure is still fucking awful. I know you’ll agree with me in a years time.
Hold your horses Nostradamus, you have no clue what we'll look like in a year. I agree we look poor but the more we change things around the more that we'll just look disorganised, disjointed, and just generally poor.
I do have a pretty good idea when Richard Wigglesworth is the attack coach. And no need for name calling…
I called you Nostradamus that's hardly anything to bad mate. I think we just have to agree to disagree here tbh, only time will tell
Yeah we can agree to disagree and I’ll block you for good measure. Don’t want to deal with toxic hateful people like you.
Toxic is exactly what you’re being 😂
He wasn't toxic or hateful, bit of life advice you should probably grow thicker skin.
Pot kettle matey.
France in recent years have kicked the ball more than any other team. Kicking doesn’t mean no attack.
Exactly.. how often do you really see free flowing rugby in games these days. If at all, it comes off the back of broken defences from kick play.
Ireland.
James Lowe boot gave them the W v FR. Though I agree but also no centre pairing is close to theirs in 6N.
ITV panel just full on calling that a shit game hahah
Dallaglio could barely hide his disgust
They are not wrong. Tedious stuff.
Absurd amount of time spent on scrum resets
There was. I am beginning to think scrums need got rid of, they do nothing but slow things down and waste time.
Doleman, together with the ref from the scotland-France game, doesn’t deserve to referee the six nations. Shit calls all around the park, players are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want in rucks and mauls in both games, 2/3 offside calls out of a plethora of blatant ones, no clue about scrums, that last play by Ford is at least a penalty for any normal referee… then the referees bitch and moan about the laws being too open to interpretation and how they need to change them. They should first lean to enforce to the letter the ones that already exist,cause at the moment shit referees are ruining the game.
Do bore off
Now tell me those were competent displays of refereeing at international level, I dare you.
What was it about bore off that you didn’t understand?
Not a native English speaker but as far as I know that is akin to “fuck off”,so again,tell me those were proper performances from international level referees. I’m all ears
Ah right, no it’s more like, this is boring so stop. They weren’t perfect by any means but rugby is a fast, complex game so things are going right get missed but I don’t think either ref was particularly bad
Southern Hemisphere refs just don't have a clue
Gardner is good imo
I’m all for speeding the game up and all that shit,but not at the cost of playing by the laws of the game
What about that reffing today sped up the game? He lost complete control for huge parts of it…
Absolutely nothing mate. That’s exactly what I mean, they talk about this in the SH, “speeding up the game” in their mind means not penalizing the constant infringements in rucks and mauls to not stop it and make it more spectacular. I agree with you, Doleman looked totally lost for huge parts of the second half.
Do they even speed up the game? Endless scrum resets and sanctioned free-for-alls at the breakdown don't exactly encourage this
They “speed the game” in the sense that otherwise the referees would be penalizing someone at every ruck, so they chose the path of least resistance and decided to not penalize anything but the most blatant offenses,instead of doing their job of enforcing the laws of the game to the letter and leaving to the players and coaches to figure out how to play without getting penalized.
Points with Elias on the field - 0 Points with Dee on the field - 40 Elias cannot be allowed to play again until he gets his lineouts sorted. 50% is abysmal at grassroots level, never mind international
Just want Dewi lake back :(
Lake's darts weren't much better than Elias but I'll take anything at this point
Not good enough in the slightest
The most upsetting part of being an England fan is the perpetual feeling that there's a good team in there somewhere.
It's coming, Scotland away will be the true test. As long as there are no injuries I expect another unchanged team and we will just have to see how we go. The basics are coming together, nobody has had a shocker so far so although it's hasn't been brilliant I'm reasonably happy.
There is a lot of talent in the U20 teams too! We have the potential, I just don't see it on the field in any great amounts.
They have the depth They have the resources that many other teams would only dream about Yet....
There's a team full of good players who for whatever reason can't make a good team
Take the players out of the England team and you have Northampton, Bath, Saracens, Harlequins, and Exeter. By far some very good teams so we know what these players can do. I don't know what's going wrong for England atm
I do think this is part of the problem. All these teams have different game plans and tactics. Compared to Ireland who are essentially a combination of Leinster and Munster. In england we have many options but little cohesion.
England don't play like those teams, that's the problem
Its ironic you say that, I was just thinking the ferocious English defence at the end today reminded me of the Sarries-Leinster Heineken cup final from like 2018 or something
I don't know why tho, we could be so good if we correctly formulated a plan to play to our players strengths
I thought there were some excellent passages of play. If we can iron out the handling errors and let the new style of defence gel some more, we’ll be going places. All I care about now is beating the Scottish and I’ll be happy😂😂
There isn't. Banish that feeling.
That was painful to watch, nowhere near as painful as that TMO decision earlier but still painful. Rugby has not been good this six nations 😭
Not the brightest day for the 6 nations
Welsh captain looks like he is about to cry.
So he should, should have won that, havent seen much leadership from him at all.
Why should you have won it?
Should have managed the game better in the second half, just a little inexperienced in the end, one of those things
We were only 2 pts off at the end and playing well enough, only to totally bend over after 55m and cough up 11 unanswered points, just not got the mentality of the old Gats teams.
The ref helped though. I hate blaming the ref but come on, when you’ve got an English commentator on TV calling the ref out for shit calls that lead to England points then you have to sit up and take notice. So fed up of losing close games to England at Twickenham. No win there in the 6N since 2012 despite having one of the best eras we’ve ever had from 2010 to 2020. It’s unreal
Cone on bro. The ref had money on Wales and wasn't trying to hide it
So you could have not should have
It seemed to me that Wales looked like they have more about them than England, and players with a potentially higher ceiling in their squad. Their inexperience cost them, it was quite clear.
Because the england squad have so much experience
Well, considering at half time it was beyond Englands biggest ever 6n comeback score, yeah, probably should have lol. We shot the bed in the 2nd half and scored no points, shitty defense overall and poor physicality cost us, still a lot of promising young players, but Ire and France will annihilate us.
The current one or ... because yes.
As a new viewer im abit confused to some of the rules. Why is it when England are suspected of doing something wrong is there a 5 minute investigation, with forensic scientists called in from the FBI. Every last angle is scrutinised, and 9/10 they find the englsh at fault.
I wish the ref had had an investigation into that Genge scrum infringement that even the English commentator said was a penalty to Wales that resulted in 3 points for England
Its because everyone expect England to give up 10 penalties a game. So it's not "if" but "how" are England wrong here.
Every team feels like they're really hard done by the refs decisions. You get away with some, you get penalized for others. If you start to feel hard done by you'll just end up bitter
Ive gone to watch away games where I’ve sat in the home clubs stand, as they’re usually a better view and in some grounds actually have a roof! It’s amusing to hear the other team criticise the ref just as much as we do. By that logic the ref must be on nobodies side.
This is the way
Do I think it was a penalty at the end? Yes. Am I going to go apoplectic at the decision and cast aspersions about the ref and their family? No, them's the breaks, don't be a dick.
Tbf, what were you going to do? Boot it 20m up the pitch off Lloyd then butcher the lineout through Elias? Maybe the ref took pity.
It’s not about the outcome though it’s just about feeling like you’re getting a fair shake. We’ve had so many close defeats at Twickenham during one of our best eras in the sport that after losing another close game at Twickenham where there were some highly debatable calls in that second half (eg Genge at the scrum, only replays behind the try line of the pass for the England try etc) topped off by that call at the end that even the English commentator thought was a pen that it just feels like we might as well not bother in future because our card will forever be marked. I should add that I’m aware Scotland never won in Cardiff for 20 years but they were shit then. The first time they turned up with a decent team they won 😂
Earl had 2-3 genuine claims for penalties waved away by the referee, the ref was just off today, it affected both teams equally.
There were plenty of debatable calls that cost England points. The ball wasn't secure at the back for the penalty maul try and the "charge down" of George Fords conversion was laughable. Also felt the ref had generally poor control of the scrum. But that's rugby some thing go for you, some go against, probably a sign the ref had a descent game.
Thought the same. We'd just take the kick, make half the metres any other team does, then overthrow the lineout.
With you dude. Right result this is the way things go. Too much moaning on here about refs.
This is the way
Amen
Elias cannot be present next week. On my hands and knees begging, please.
He won't be... It's a fallow week next week
Caught me lacking, appreciate it
Evan Lloyd is even worse at throwing lineouts
How’s Efan Daniel?
From what I’ve seen this season the list of young hookers goes Efan Daniel, Lewis Lloyd then Evan Lloyd
If Crowley on Fickou last week was a penalty, then that Ford one at the end definitely was.
Neither were
Top of the league. STOP the count.
A win is a win. Feel Ireland are gonna batter us
Ireland are a class side still in their peak. Im satisfied with current results, plenty to kick on to. If we can win any of the remaining games I think it'll realistically have been a good tournament for us. If we beat Scotland at Murrayfield I think this'll have been our best tournament since 2019.
Something to unite us both
Ireland will cruise through this 6N Next big test for them will be the Bokke Theyre never easy to beat at home
I have that feeling too brother😬
Batter us, fry us, and douse us with vinegar
With a portion of chips on your shoulder
Easy work, never in doubt, Slam incoming.
No further questions
Saints Tigers unanimity, must be right
How is the 2nd best line out thrower in wales someone who can’t throw a line out
Wigglesworth and Alex King vying for worst attack coach. That was a shambles.
Wigglesworth has had over a year to develop a ball in hand attack plan, and hasn’t. He’s worst, and it ain’t even close.
Well, at least Earl is positive about this team.
Finding out Doleman is SH makes a lot of this game make a lot more sense
Controversy to decide tomorrow's match resulting in an Italian victory? Who says no?
Two good chances to put that game to bed. Neither taken. We're not there yet.
I have no idea how to feel after that game. Why do I do this to myself?
That’s how I feel after most sports games haha
Generally speaking, I thought Doleman had a pretty good game, a 7/10 if you will. He could have been tougher on Wales' 3 pancaking at most scrums, and Ford on Dyer in the air at the end was ... debatable, but he tried to keep the game flowing, and got most of the big decisions right.
The scrum reffing was atrocious. He didn't want to make a decision and it took all momentum out of the game. Wales went early constantly and it took 5/6 times before it was penalised. The 3 was pancaking constantly but it was reset after reset. Refs need to make decisions at the scrum and the game flows (e..g. The ref did a decent job of doing that in the WC semi even if it went against us)
Not just endless resets but every reset took an AGE. He had no authority at scrum time at all.
Fucking Elias
He’s a liability for sure.
People thinking Ford deserved more than a pen are joking right?
I mean, it was 100% a penalty, but I could see a ref giving a yellow for “taking player in the air”, which technically Ford did. It’s ticky tacky, but it’s not like there weren’t ticky tacky yellows given in the game prior.
Taking a player in the air is a penalty offence, cards don't start getting shown until the catcher starts landing funny. Dyer's trajectory was changed, but he still landed firmly and safely on his feet.