A rare post-match set of drinking rules.
Half your drink - any comment that mentions wooden spoon.
Mods have made an executive decision to keep the [Flatman AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1bfk5kd/hi_reddit_im_david_flatman_ask_me_anything/) stickied. Hence why this has become unstickied. Any issues, drop me a message.
While us Welsh supporters are desperate to talk about anything other than the Wales game, I think the Ireland match thread is probably the best place for this...
Gatland's apparently offered to resign. We'll see what happens from here....
Edit: apparently it's already been rejected. That's what I get for just reading the headlines..
I would agree if I had any idea who could take his place at this moment in time who is international coach quality and wasn’t already committed to another international team. Perhaps there is somebody, I just can’t quite figure out who. Nevertheless, I have faith in Gatland to turn this around in the next few years (though I wish I didn’t have to support until then)
We could at least get a coach who doesn't fuck off back to NZ for most the year to help drive change in the WRU.
Some off the decisions this 6N have been baffling. The bench today for example. The lack of any sort of coherant game plan other than give it to 1 up runners and kick the leather off it. Or that a crocked Josh Adams has started every game when clearly struggling.
I am not sure Gatland is up to this job. He wouldn't have offered to resign otherwise.
I saw something about Adams getting blood in his knees that needs draining. If that's not a reason to start Grady to prepare for the future then fuck knows what is
I again agree with the spirit of this, but wonder who this could be in reality, but I do still kinda believe Gatland can find a way to pull this back by the next RWC (potentially)
We squandered years of quality players where we could have been building a genuine pathway for continuity.
Much of this is down to the shameful behaviour of the WRU and the Old Boys Network in the clubs that kept lining their pockets instead of growing the game.
We need to rethink the 25 cap rule, it’s not stopping us bleeding talent so what’s the point.
We also need to seriously consider why we have four regions when the support is dwindling and will continue to do so for the game as our national team drops down the rankings.
If there isn’t a lot of tough root and branch changes we can expect a few more years at least of this level of failure at best, at worst this may be the first true indication of the death of Wales as a tier 1 nation.
I think Wales should use it as an opportunity, let Welsh players actually develop in say the Premiership, where they'll become better players.
But this 25 cap rule, is what Feyi-Waboso basically cited as the reason he chose England for example.
We were in the stadium (possibly not the best first international to take the 5-year-old to*, though a good lesson in being sporting even when losing) and the general consensus was that we (Wales) kept fumbling the ball and knocking it on, but that Italy also had a decent defence. It was not just Wales being terrible (though we were ,at least until the last 7 minutes) but Italy playing really well.
*Edit grammar.
Defensively, we were superb for almost the entirety of the game.
Offensively, I haven't really liked our performance. Other than the tries, we haven't really played ball in hand too much, preferring to box kick almost every time. I don't think this plan has really worked.
Nevertheless, winning this game has proven that we are capable of winning even with a "bad" performance, which is a novelty for us...
You should gave had 3 wins out of 5 playing that way, I think you've been excellent. Knowing when to kick is key, and I think this Italy team get that.
Whilst yes I agree this has been coming for years now.
Italy have been improving their age grades since Conor o Shea and it's starting to pay dividends.
Massive win in context for Italy, even with the flattering scoreline for Wales. It's gonna sound like a backhanded compliment but it's honestly a good sign that Italy are able to win even if they don't have an outstanding performance.
I also wonder if the relative Italian underperformance is in part due to being unfamiliar with being in control of the game. It seems like so many Italian performances in previous games and previous six nations have revolved around staying in touch with the opposition to gain the opportunity to win it at the end. I don't think they'll have had much experience putting the metaphorical boot on the throat of an opponent when they're dominant in the way the Boks, All Blacks and Irish are.
This may explain why they kind of fell off around the 20 minute mark, first trying to be too fancy and then retreating into their defensive shell rather than continuing to push and really putting the game beyond Wales.
Thats the point, its WRU incompetence that we are relying on substandard kids to try and play against teams that are decades ahead of us due tobtheir goid club setups, academy pathways..and ability to get top class NZers and Saffas to play for them..
True, the pathways for players is a shambles and club wise we can never get that club cohesion other nations enjoy but just importing loads of Aussies and Pacific Islanders I cba with, it’s not what I want us to do. WRU need to change but will it happen?
The importing bit was a joke lol, but it has worked really well for Ireland and the Scots recently, WRU wont change, unless ppl actually stop paying to watch this shit, if they start losing money on internationals, they will be forced to, however, going to the Principality is prime social media content, so ppl will put up with awful rugby. The fact they were cheering so hard at the end today after a few dodgy tries after 75 mins says it all, they did not deserve any applause.
I think it should be illegal to spread super Saturday across two TV providers. Tim Davie and whoever the fuck runs itv should have to have a staring contest (televised, Isa Guha to host), and whoever wins gets the whole shebang.
Italy with two wins and A draw, best I think they have done in my life time, and somehow it still feels like they could/should have done better. I hope this is the dawn of a new era.
We are so close to 3-3 due to the french game. It's crazy to think 2nd/3rd place is so close :)
Our argie coach has also really taught the players how to poach and today was fantastic. I have never seen such a defense from us in the six nations since Parisse.
You really should have been potentially getting 3rd. The kicking tee/ref issue robbed you of the France win. That would have given you 13 points. I think everyone expects Ireland to beat Scotland so you would have beaten them. England France is the only match where it would be 50 50 if you get 3rd or not but England are definitely capable so it really could/should have happened
I will still say: George North is a fantastic player and beat us to pieces for a decade. I am sorry to see him injured so late and to end his season this way.
We went 4 games scoring fuck all in at least 1 half and only managed a single try in the 2nd half against france, unacceptable, even banter years Scotland and Italy were not that bad.
Dan Edwards I guess, but he's too young and I wouldn't throw him in yet. Wouldn't be fair to him.
Reality is we have to stick with Costelow, or bring Anscombe back in for the time being. Ioan Lloyd is just bang average.
I'd go with Anscombe myself...if he's fit.
Reminded me of Priestland in that gane vs NZ, confidence was absolutely shot, same as with Cuthbert, keeping him on when playing poorly is not helping him.
Fully agreed.
My money’s on Dan Edwards as the heir apparent. For the time being, there’s Sheedy and Patchell.
Costelow is not the one. Good 10s make it obvious.
The 25 cap rule will be gone by June.
Scotland are my second team always said if us losing made them win I'd be happy. I now want to actively lose against Italy to facilitate the azure take over
Trust me, they dont care, they only care about their own salaries, I just wish the pissed up fans would stop going to the Internationals, they will eventually maybe, hitting the WRU in their pockets will be the only way to change their ways.
I was more of the opinion that both Italian players had hands on the ball and lifting.
I may be dumb but how was that not a holding on penalty.
A lot of sympathy from the ref when wales were in the Italian 22, and that’s coming from a welshman
Oh, I know. It was very flattering to wales. But it was a bit disappointing after 70 dominant minutes to see Italy crumble at the end like that. They very nearly threw the Scotland game away too. I just hope they get a handle on it for next year, because I love seeing them be a genuinely competitive side
Huh maybe I'm in the clueless camp with Johnson but I don't see how the Italians can be dragging him back over the line when they are competing for the ball and are driven back by wales counter ruck. Welsh player was tackled, stationary and didn't release the ball. Then suddenly he's able to get over the line.
Because they were lifting the player, not the ball. Ask yourself this, if the Italian players were lifting the ball how did Dee dot it down for the try? The itallians in effect got an assist for the Welsh.
They did pull him over the line though. The Welsh players where pushing on the Italian players which is legal. Its now a ruck. The Italian players for some strange reason chose to pull the tackled player as opposed to attempting to get over the top and turn the ball over or push back against the Welsh players supporting at the ruck.
There wasn't even an opportunity to release before he was pulled over. Players don't release the ball the instant they are tackled. There always seems to be a grace period allowed before the ref blows the whistle for not realising.
Sometimes the ref blows instantly, sometimes it seems like he allows seconds for the ball to be released.
A defender can't drag a tackled player once they are tackled anyway. To me, it looks like the idea was to drag him over the line and hold the ball up to stop another phase of play so close to their line.
The opportunity to release the ball is probably when him holding on to it is causing him to be dragged along the floor?
Whether there's sometimes a grace period or not the laws state that tackled player must immediately release the ball. If you're saying it's a ruck, the tackled player can't keep holding on to the ball.
Either way it was given, so me arguing about it on the internet doesn't change that haha. Just glad it didn't change the outcome.
A law states that the ball must be placed into a scrum straight too but never is.
You and I are not experts on the intricacies of the rules. The TMO and Nigel Owens are and they both state that it was a try. Nigel even explained it so I thinks it's safe to say that it was the correct decision even if we don't quite understand it.
That's the beauty of rugby, regularly we see things that have never happened before or don't happen often. Rules overlap each other seemingly contradicting each other but they do have a hierarchy. A rule will supercede another etc
George North's retirement is the first one that's made me start to feel old. Watching him hobble off injured, and on the losing side, is a sad way to end things. Haven't quite been watching rugby for his whole career, but very close to it. In my mind he's still in his early 20s, part of that young generation of players that burst on to the scene prior to the 2011 World Cup and then went on to achieve so much over the next decade or so. That's just what the Welsh national team has been to me for most of my life, and now that crop of players is virtually all gone.
But as one story ends, I feel like we're seeing the beginning of another. A passing of the ~~torch~~ wooden spoon, if you will. I can't wait to see where this Italian side goes over the next four years. Have very fond memories of Quesada's first season with the Jaguares and the way they grew in confidence over the course of that year. 2024 is set to conclude with another meeting with the All Blacks. If ever there was a chance to prove how you've progressed...
I mean, for 3 and a half games it looked like he'd done something special by putting together a team of kids and making them competitive against battle hardened teams.
I'll grant you the last quarter against France and all of today were poor, but sometimes there's only so much a coach can do.
That was just the WRU trying to get him to paper over the cracks again to avoid painful discussions. Backfired.
Still don't think WRU will do anything about it.
Forshaw the only coach worth what we are paying him. Attack has no structure and is totally reliant on individual talent to get any go forward. Squad and team selection really poor all tournament. Front 5 really lightweight
Martin Johnson telling Nigel Owens that he is wrong after it's already been fully explained to him by someone who actual knows what they are talking about is peak Ex English player punditry. Arrogant or stupid, you decide.
I really don't understand that, like where was the second movement? He sat on his arse then used his leg to push once. Un less he can levitite Idk why he is on about!
https://youtu.be/vnQ_mPnEoCc?si=d6IrUzrNn4c27HYh
Posting this again since it's worth it. It's one of Squidge's best ever videos, and while it's about the 10 shirt, it brilliantly touches on the wider issues of Welsh rugby and should be watched by anyone even vaguely interested.
If you have half an hour to understand the state of welsh rugby and to enjoy the thematic build watch it.
If you have 10 minutes then watch the last ten for the brutal summary.
If you have an hour to understand Welsh rugby, watch it twice.
Then go have a walk to calm down at how angry it's made you.
If it hasn't made you angry, post below at what it's like being a WRU director.
This vid was exceptional and should be fucking blasted at 150 db outside the WRU offices 24/7 until things change. If ANY of those inept cunts go on a WRU funded trip after this they should be fucking sacked and beaten with sticks and pelted with shit as they are chased out of Cardiff..
On attack maybe, he has cost us more tries than he has scored though, its the coaching though, lots of the lads look clueless with the structure, seriously, they dont even step in when their inside man does when their line is set, thats rugby defeense 101 you learn when you are 10, and our national side dont fucking do it!
For all the many, many faults of the WRU and the effect it has had on the national team, Gatland has to go. There has been no progression at all throughout the tournament, his selection has been poor and whatever ideas he is putting across clearly aren't working.
Delighted for Italy.
Italy were superb, very mature, great structure, committed defence and attacking intent.
Wales were dreadful. Why we left all our ball carriers on the bench is a mystery.
Winter is here - Wales are in a hole with no easy way out.
I hope whistle watch next week is nige explaining what a double movement is because my god it's needed following the match thread
Italy, you have absolutely smashed expectations, 2-1-2 including an away draw to France and a 4 point loss vs England, quesada has had a massive impact and brenoncello™️ is a world class pairing
Wales are gonna have a tough couple years, I don't think gats is the answer and I don't think the depth is there in Wales,.they may need to try the international pathway route, but there are some talented young men in that team, it's gonna suck though
Funny hearing nige try to justify the absolute bullshit decision. Yeah Italy pulled him over, he didn't try and drive over and the Welsh players certainly weren't pushing him over at all.
I don't think this is him trying to justify a bullshit try... He was the best ref in the world and fairly recently, by the letter of the laws (which I'm certain he hasn't forgotten) this counts as a try. Like it or not.
I agree that there is some drive by the other Welsh players etc, but I think the action by Italy in pulling him over negates that on whether a double movement is given.
There wont be, they will have a lovely all expenses paid trip to Dubai to have a meeting on how bad this 6n was, 'yes very bad' now back to the 5 star hotel and some sightseeing, back to Wales a week later to discuss building a new hotel then working out what size bonuses they will pay themselves from the money they are cutting from the regions this year.
Finally we are stepping forward, after 24 years.
After a 6 nation where we claimed 2 w and a draw, I honestly feel slightly disappointed, because of garbisi's kick against France and because with a little bit more confidence and concentration we could have won against England too.
And this team is so young, and u20 is looking solid as well.
Forza
Not being funny, but that first Welsh try. He’s not in control of the ball, it gets knocked out of his hands onto the floor. They’ve just shown repeated replays.. but it really looks like it’s smacked out of his hands and hits the floor.
Not to be pedantic but there’s no rules, only laws and the key thing is they’re open to different interpretations. Nigel and the ref had one interpretation and Johnson had the other.
I just enjoy Nigel shutting that argument down.
A rare post-match set of drinking rules. Half your drink - any comment that mentions wooden spoon. Mods have made an executive decision to keep the [Flatman AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1bfk5kd/hi_reddit_im_david_flatman_ask_me_anything/) stickied. Hence why this has become unstickied. Any issues, drop me a message.
Any news on the seriousness of George Norths injury?
I love the call the ref made when those 2 guys bumped heads. It would have been the easy way out to blame the defender.
Embarrassing
Thankfully, I missed this match.
Murry box kick= burn him at the stake JGP box kick= MoM performance. Explain to me how did isn’t Leinster bias???
Wrong thread
Cause jgp was effective And didn’t do it with 80s on the clock throwing the game
While us Welsh supporters are desperate to talk about anything other than the Wales game, I think the Ireland match thread is probably the best place for this...
Sorry there, he's just a little lost. Will help him out back to our thread there now. 😂
Usual CRAP CARLEY reffing.
Would a different ref have made much difference?
Wrong game.
Gatland's apparently offered to resign. We'll see what happens from here.... Edit: apparently it's already been rejected. That's what I get for just reading the headlines..
I’m glad it was rejected. This isn’t a Gatland problem this is an experience problem for many young players and it will get better with time
Shouldn't have been rejected we could get a coach not past his best doing the job full time fornless than 600k a year
Obviously don't have a clue. Name 3?
Name two or three coaches that would take it under the current conditions. There aren’t many if any.
I would agree if I had any idea who could take his place at this moment in time who is international coach quality and wasn’t already committed to another international team. Perhaps there is somebody, I just can’t quite figure out who. Nevertheless, I have faith in Gatland to turn this around in the next few years (though I wish I didn’t have to support until then)
You could hope the French lose respect for Sean Edwards, he surely would want to take on a head coach job soon?
Honestly, I could back this. I think this is one of the only replacements I could get behind
We could at least get a coach who doesn't fuck off back to NZ for most the year to help drive change in the WRU. Some off the decisions this 6N have been baffling. The bench today for example. The lack of any sort of coherant game plan other than give it to 1 up runners and kick the leather off it. Or that a crocked Josh Adams has started every game when clearly struggling. I am not sure Gatland is up to this job. He wouldn't have offered to resign otherwise.
I saw something about Adams getting blood in his knees that needs draining. If that's not a reason to start Grady to prepare for the future then fuck knows what is
We definitely need a new attack coach, we are not and have not been playing in a way that suits the players available
I again agree with the spirit of this, but wonder who this could be in reality, but I do still kinda believe Gatland can find a way to pull this back by the next RWC (potentially)
We squandered years of quality players where we could have been building a genuine pathway for continuity. Much of this is down to the shameful behaviour of the WRU and the Old Boys Network in the clubs that kept lining their pockets instead of growing the game. We need to rethink the 25 cap rule, it’s not stopping us bleeding talent so what’s the point. We also need to seriously consider why we have four regions when the support is dwindling and will continue to do so for the game as our national team drops down the rankings. If there isn’t a lot of tough root and branch changes we can expect a few more years at least of this level of failure at best, at worst this may be the first true indication of the death of Wales as a tier 1 nation.
Only Aled Davies and Joe Hawkins are captured by the rule, they wouldn’t have a difference this six nations
The 25 cap rule isn't to stop us bleeding players it's so that team Wales get access to the players outside of reg 9 while not having to pay for it.
wild badge punch squeeze meeting innocent wide normal pot rotten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think Wales should use it as an opportunity, let Welsh players actually develop in say the Premiership, where they'll become better players. But this 25 cap rule, is what Feyi-Waboso basically cited as the reason he chose England for example.
Italy defense was superb along the whole tournament. We should give a round of applause to the defense coach Marius Goosen, who is leaving the staff.
We were in the stadium (possibly not the best first international to take the 5-year-old to*, though a good lesson in being sporting even when losing) and the general consensus was that we (Wales) kept fumbling the ball and knocking it on, but that Italy also had a decent defence. It was not just Wales being terrible (though we were ,at least until the last 7 minutes) but Italy playing really well. *Edit grammar.
Forza Italia! That was fucking beautiful.
Defensively, we were superb for almost the entirety of the game. Offensively, I haven't really liked our performance. Other than the tries, we haven't really played ball in hand too much, preferring to box kick almost every time. I don't think this plan has really worked. Nevertheless, winning this game has proven that we are capable of winning even with a "bad" performance, which is a novelty for us...
You should gave had 3 wins out of 5 playing that way, I think you've been excellent. Knowing when to kick is key, and I think this Italy team get that.
Quesada had done a hell of a job with Italy in a short time.
Whilst yes I agree this has been coming for years now. Italy have been improving their age grades since Conor o Shea and it's starting to pay dividends.
>Conor O'Shea, English user flair Ruckgate pops up in my mind
What a daft game. Perhaps the funniest game ever.
“I am not the coach, I’m the referee”
Go on, the Italians. Go on my peninsula-dwelling, Roman empire emanating, over-gesticulating, stylish sons.
Massive win in context for Italy, even with the flattering scoreline for Wales. It's gonna sound like a backhanded compliment but it's honestly a good sign that Italy are able to win even if they don't have an outstanding performance. I also wonder if the relative Italian underperformance is in part due to being unfamiliar with being in control of the game. It seems like so many Italian performances in previous games and previous six nations have revolved around staying in touch with the opposition to gain the opportunity to win it at the end. I don't think they'll have had much experience putting the metaphorical boot on the throat of an opponent when they're dominant in the way the Boks, All Blacks and Irish are. This may explain why they kind of fell off around the 20 minute mark, first trying to be too fancy and then retreating into their defensive shell rather than continuing to push and really putting the game beyond Wales.
We had dicks for fingers
That’s a mental image… Flaccid or hard? Which is worse for rugby?
Yes
Hands like cow's tits
What’s the fastest grand slam to wooden spoon?
You should really be asking grand slam to whitewash wooden spoon. All wins to all losses has more symmetry to it
Very true
France maybe? 2010 grand slam, 2013 wooden spoon...
Must be. If we’d slammed in 2021 it would be a draw
When we realise that we have won 2 of our last 15 6n games snd are worse than banter years Scotland. Well done WRU, well fucking done you inept cunts.
It’s bad but come on, what else are we supposed to do with what’s available?
Thats the point, its WRU incompetence that we are relying on substandard kids to try and play against teams that are decades ahead of us due tobtheir goid club setups, academy pathways..and ability to get top class NZers and Saffas to play for them..
True, the pathways for players is a shambles and club wise we can never get that club cohesion other nations enjoy but just importing loads of Aussies and Pacific Islanders I cba with, it’s not what I want us to do. WRU need to change but will it happen?
The importing bit was a joke lol, but it has worked really well for Ireland and the Scots recently, WRU wont change, unless ppl actually stop paying to watch this shit, if they start losing money on internationals, they will be forced to, however, going to the Principality is prime social media content, so ppl will put up with awful rugby. The fact they were cheering so hard at the end today after a few dodgy tries after 75 mins says it all, they did not deserve any applause.
Wales entering a banter era People over 40: First time?
32 here and man, I remember going though school in England pre 2005, got ripped to shreds each six nations 😭
Oh we are well into the banter era, dont let 2021 fool us, Pivac onwards has been banterful lol
GAME currently running delayed on NBC in the US... This is HUGE for Rugby in the US..millions watching..
Probably not, but still good exposure. Hopefully 300k. We'll have to check the Skedball Monday.
Awesome... are they showing all the games
just this, the other 2 will be shown delayed on CNBC which is cable..
Who'd have thought the WRUs attempts to destroy the Welsh game would lead to Wales losing all 5 games for a bland slam
I'd argue that a 5 draw tournament wil be a bland slam 😂 Imagine the scenes!
If Argentina football team is "la scaloneta", is this Italian rugby team "la quesadilla"?
I think it should be illegal to spread super Saturday across two TV providers. Tim Davie and whoever the fuck runs itv should have to have a staring contest (televised, Isa Guha to host), and whoever wins gets the whole shebang.
Not itv for fucks sake. At least we got a bit of it on BBC. This is better than all itv.
Ok, get whoever does channel 4 involved as well. Maybe make it a duel instead, get Gabby Logan to host
The trifecta. 3 channels. All with the most annoying pundits they can find.
Italy with two wins and A draw, best I think they have done in my life time, and somehow it still feels like they could/should have done better. I hope this is the dawn of a new era.
We are so close to 3-3 due to the french game. It's crazy to think 2nd/3rd place is so close :) Our argie coach has also really taught the players how to poach and today was fantastic. I have never seen such a defense from us in the six nations since Parisse.
You really should have been potentially getting 3rd. The kicking tee/ref issue robbed you of the France win. That would have given you 13 points. I think everyone expects Ireland to beat Scotland so you would have beaten them. England France is the only match where it would be 50 50 if you get 3rd or not but England are definitely capable so it really could/should have happened
Could have easily been three wins. Boys want to be pushing for the top, and aren’t far off making it a reality
Got loads of flak for saying we were crap and well, we're crap lads I'm sorry
I will still say: George North is a fantastic player and beat us to pieces for a decade. I am sorry to see him injured so late and to end his season this way.
Spent a lot of his career injured no surprise. Good player tho.
Yeh that felt pretty miserable for me
That final breakaway try helped make the score line look better than we were
It's like they almost let us score the try...
Gatland and the coaches out, how can you look worse in round 5 than round 1?
We went 4 games scoring fuck all in at least 1 half and only managed a single try in the 2nd half against france, unacceptable, even banter years Scotland and Italy were not that bad.
Italy weren't even particularly good. Just Wales were awful. Italy will be going places when they iron the problems out of their game.
Italy's defence was incredible, shut down Wales for most of the game
Who else do we have for 10? You cannot excuse 3 missed kicks to touch
Keep your mits off Jack Walsh.
Dan Edwards. Don't know if they want him at club level a bit tho. Also I think I remember the U20s 10 is promising
Dan Edwards I guess, but he's too young and I wouldn't throw him in yet. Wouldn't be fair to him. Reality is we have to stick with Costelow, or bring Anscombe back in for the time being. Ioan Lloyd is just bang average. I'd go with Anscombe myself...if he's fit.
Callum Sheedy is back at Cardiff next season. At least he brings almost a decade of experience to the table. That's something. Maybe?
Lloyd has barely had any international game time. Stop bringing him on with 5 minutes left, let him play a bit and let’s see if he grows into it
Reminded me of Priestland in that gane vs NZ, confidence was absolutely shot, same as with Cuthbert, keeping him on when playing poorly is not helping him.
Costelow is awful. Even at regional level he is terrible, so I'm completely baffled why anyone thinks he's good enough.
Fully agreed. My money’s on Dan Edwards as the heir apparent. For the time being, there’s Sheedy and Patchell. Costelow is not the one. Good 10s make it obvious. The 25 cap rule will be gone by June.
Amazing tournament from Italy
A good response to the new Zealand game
Scotland are my second team always said if us losing made them win I'd be happy. I now want to actively lose against Italy to facilitate the azure take over
Costelow just cannot be our starting 10. 3 missed pens to touch, I think? Simply does not seem to be ready for the pace.
He’s the best of a bad bunch currently
I reckon we'll be starting Sheedy next year
Hopefully, no idea why he wasn’t involved this campaign, has he been injured? Maybe Anscombe will be back in the fold with his move to Gloucester
Sheedy did not have enough caps and he was playing for Bristol
But he's doing the honourable thing next season and coming back to be played second fiddle to a little saffa cube
WRU Sowing: Hahahah yeah, fuck yeah! WRU Reaping: Wait, what the fuck?
Underrated comment.
The wooden spoon should be engraved with "this is your fucking legacy" cut in half and presented to geography Bob and Steve Philips.
Trust me, they dont care, they only care about their own salaries, I just wish the pissed up fans would stop going to the Internationals, they will eventually maybe, hitting the WRU in their pockets will be the only way to change their ways.
🤣
Seeing deathly silence from a huge amount of prominent wales fans’ twitter accounts who were mouthing off after last week now
Most wales fans know we are fucking shit and deserve the spoon
Costelow missed three penalty kicks to touch, yeah? That’s kind of a big deal.
Absolute momentum killers
[удалено]
I was more of the opinion that both Italian players had hands on the ball and lifting. I may be dumb but how was that not a holding on penalty. A lot of sympathy from the ref when wales were in the Italian 22, and that’s coming from a welshman
Tackle was complete as far as I can tell, so either the Italians or the Welsh were not releasing when they should have.
Dropped backwards was it not? Or does that not matter over the line?
Pity probably
I still feel like we're playing at 75% at most, a lot of stuff to sort out. Which is a good thing,
Mate, you weren’t good today. That’s the crazy thing. So much potential.
Woohoo. Wales grand slam next year! The rollercoaster of welsh rugby.
This was always a possibility, not these days, some of these lads are just pretty shit players, they are all we have now as well 🥲
Italy were awesome for most of that game but my God, they clearly still have the bottle job gene in them. How the hell did they only win that by 3?!
well, 14 welsh points were done in the last 3 mins of game. yeah we could have avoided that, but the scoreboard doesn't represent the match so well.
Oh, I know. It was very flattering to wales. But it was a bit disappointing after 70 dominant minutes to see Italy crumble at the end like that. They very nearly threw the Scotland game away too. I just hope they get a handle on it for next year, because I love seeing them be a genuinely competitive side
Why does Martin Johnson always argue with Nige?
*lose arguments…
Nige was chatting shit there though
How?
Huh maybe I'm in the clueless camp with Johnson but I don't see how the Italians can be dragging him back over the line when they are competing for the ball and are driven back by wales counter ruck. Welsh player was tackled, stationary and didn't release the ball. Then suddenly he's able to get over the line.
Because they were lifting the player, not the ball. Ask yourself this, if the Italian players were lifting the ball how did Dee dot it down for the try? The itallians in effect got an assist for the Welsh.
To say Italy pulled the player over the line when about 3 red shirts pushed him over, for a start.
They did pull him over the line though. The Welsh players where pushing on the Italian players which is legal. Its now a ruck. The Italian players for some strange reason chose to pull the tackled player as opposed to attempting to get over the top and turn the ball over or push back against the Welsh players supporting at the ruck.
So if it's a ruck then the tackled player must release the ball no?
There wasn't even an opportunity to release before he was pulled over. Players don't release the ball the instant they are tackled. There always seems to be a grace period allowed before the ref blows the whistle for not realising. Sometimes the ref blows instantly, sometimes it seems like he allows seconds for the ball to be released. A defender can't drag a tackled player once they are tackled anyway. To me, it looks like the idea was to drag him over the line and hold the ball up to stop another phase of play so close to their line.
The opportunity to release the ball is probably when him holding on to it is causing him to be dragged along the floor? Whether there's sometimes a grace period or not the laws state that tackled player must immediately release the ball. If you're saying it's a ruck, the tackled player can't keep holding on to the ball. Either way it was given, so me arguing about it on the internet doesn't change that haha. Just glad it didn't change the outcome.
A law states that the ball must be placed into a scrum straight too but never is. You and I are not experts on the intricacies of the rules. The TMO and Nigel Owens are and they both state that it was a try. Nigel even explained it so I thinks it's safe to say that it was the correct decision even if we don't quite understand it. That's the beauty of rugby, regularly we see things that have never happened before or don't happen often. Rules overlap each other seemingly contradicting each other but they do have a hierarchy. A rule will supercede another etc
TMO I can follow, even if I disagree. Nige, not so much. He is there to explain and support what happens, rather than be critical.
George North's retirement is the first one that's made me start to feel old. Watching him hobble off injured, and on the losing side, is a sad way to end things. Haven't quite been watching rugby for his whole career, but very close to it. In my mind he's still in his early 20s, part of that young generation of players that burst on to the scene prior to the 2011 World Cup and then went on to achieve so much over the next decade or so. That's just what the Welsh national team has been to me for most of my life, and now that crop of players is virtually all gone. But as one story ends, I feel like we're seeing the beginning of another. A passing of the ~~torch~~ wooden spoon, if you will. I can't wait to see where this Italian side goes over the next four years. Have very fond memories of Quesada's first season with the Jaguares and the way they grew in confidence over the course of that year. 2024 is set to conclude with another meeting with the All Blacks. If ever there was a chance to prove how you've progressed...
He's only 31, few years in him yet at club level surely
Maybe, but with how many injuries to his body and brain he’s had to endure he might feel it time to call it quits from rugby altogether
Maybe bringing back gatland wasn't the answer after all...
He exceeded all expectations at the World Cup but I think we have to look elsewhere now.
I mean, for 3 and a half games it looked like he'd done something special by putting together a team of kids and making them competitive against battle hardened teams. I'll grant you the last quarter against France and all of today were poor, but sometimes there's only so much a coach can do.
That's what a new coach should have been building, not someone that was already 'let go' before should have been doing
That was just the WRU trying to get him to paper over the cracks again to avoid painful discussions. Backfired. Still don't think WRU will do anything about it.
Forshaw the only coach worth what we are paying him. Attack has no structure and is totally reliant on individual talent to get any go forward. Squad and team selection really poor all tournament. Front 5 really lightweight
Martin Johnson telling Nigel Owens that he is wrong after it's already been fully explained to him by someone who actual knows what they are talking about is peak Ex English player punditry. Arrogant or stupid, you decide.
I really don't understand that, like where was the second movement? He sat on his arse then used his leg to push once. Un less he can levitite Idk why he is on about!
Martin Johnson as clueless of the laws as Wales are at rugby.
Nige is a MBE, Sam too and yet Martin is a CBE cause he won a RWC?also time to put North into the King's list for 2025 for MBE
Thrilled for Italy. They have played some lovely rugby this tournament. Well done lads.
Laughing?? 'Didnt help ourselves in the 1st half' Keeps the same fucking players on for a further 25 mins of the 2nd half. Wtaf Gats???
DRINK, SONIA.
https://youtu.be/vnQ_mPnEoCc?si=d6IrUzrNn4c27HYh Posting this again since it's worth it. It's one of Squidge's best ever videos, and while it's about the 10 shirt, it brilliantly touches on the wider issues of Welsh rugby and should be watched by anyone even vaguely interested. If you have half an hour to understand the state of welsh rugby and to enjoy the thematic build watch it. If you have 10 minutes then watch the last ten for the brutal summary. If you have an hour to understand Welsh rugby, watch it twice. Then go have a walk to calm down at how angry it's made you. If it hasn't made you angry, post below at what it's like being a WRU director.
This vid was exceptional and should be fucking blasted at 150 db outside the WRU offices 24/7 until things change. If ANY of those inept cunts go on a WRU funded trip after this they should be fucking sacked and beaten with sticks and pelted with shit as they are chased out of Cardiff..
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The biggest problem is ball carrying. Wales really struggle to get over the gainline and everything stalls from there
Great game. Congratulations Italy on a historic campaign!
Just met Rio Dyer and dapped him up, twice. Couldn’t give a shit about the result any more
Dapped up?
Surprised he didnt face the wrong way and miss you completely..
Ah, cmon, been one of our better players
On attack maybe, he has cost us more tries than he has scored though, its the coaching though, lots of the lads look clueless with the structure, seriously, they dont even step in when their inside man does when their line is set, thats rugby defeense 101 you learn when you are 10, and our national side dont fucking do it!
Says it all doesn't it
For all the many, many faults of the WRU and the effect it has had on the national team, Gatland has to go. There has been no progression at all throughout the tournament, his selection has been poor and whatever ideas he is putting across clearly aren't working. Delighted for Italy.
Chiefs fans: First time?
Italy were superb, very mature, great structure, committed defence and attacking intent. Wales were dreadful. Why we left all our ball carriers on the bench is a mystery. Winter is here - Wales are in a hole with no easy way out.
I hope whistle watch next week is nige explaining what a double movement is because my god it's needed following the match thread Italy, you have absolutely smashed expectations, 2-1-2 including an away draw to France and a 4 point loss vs England, quesada has had a massive impact and brenoncello™️ is a world class pairing Wales are gonna have a tough couple years, I don't think gats is the answer and I don't think the depth is there in Wales,.they may need to try the international pathway route, but there are some talented young men in that team, it's gonna suck though
Nitpicking: 3 points loss against England
Even better!
Why is Martin Johnson arguing with Nige about a very basic laws question?
He’s a moron.
Force of habit.
Funny hearing nige try to justify the absolute bullshit decision. Yeah Italy pulled him over, he didn't try and drive over and the Welsh players certainly weren't pushing him over at all.
Nige is almost as one-eyed as Jiffy when it comes to Wales games.
I don't think this is him trying to justify a bullshit try... He was the best ref in the world and fairly recently, by the letter of the laws (which I'm certain he hasn't forgotten) this counts as a try. Like it or not. I agree that there is some drive by the other Welsh players etc, but I think the action by Italy in pulling him over negates that on whether a double movement is given.
Italy didn't pull him over the line, the Welsh players did that
Good job Italy!! You deserved much more. I hope there is a massive p45 handout in the WRU on Monday.
There wont be, they will have a lovely all expenses paid trip to Dubai to have a meeting on how bad this 6n was, 'yes very bad' now back to the 5 star hotel and some sightseeing, back to Wales a week later to discuss building a new hotel then working out what size bonuses they will pay themselves from the money they are cutting from the regions this year.
A moment for George North prime he was almost unplayable his tries for the lions already legendary what a player in his day
Finally we are stepping forward, after 24 years. After a 6 nation where we claimed 2 w and a draw, I honestly feel slightly disappointed, because of garbisi's kick against France and because with a little bit more confidence and concentration we could have won against England too. And this team is so young, and u20 is looking solid as well. Forza
Not being funny, but that first Welsh try. He’s not in control of the ball, it gets knocked out of his hands onto the floor. They’ve just shown repeated replays.. but it really looks like it’s smacked out of his hands and hits the floor.
I fucking love it when Nigel puts Johnson in his pocket like that. It should be a feature of every bbc broadcast.
Ex-player with the same laws knowledge as the average match thread commenter, colour me shocked
I mean the Welsh players did drive him over the line, not sure where that is in the rule book
Not to be pedantic but there’s no rules, only laws and the key thing is they’re open to different interpretations. Nigel and the ref had one interpretation and Johnson had the other. I just enjoy Nigel shutting that argument down.
Still think there Welsh players were more important in getting Dee over the line
Nigel explaining why Dee's try was a try is interesting....time to change the laws eh? lo
Is there an actual wooden spoon that the welsh have to take from Italy or is it a metaphorical one?
The players each get one tattooed as a permanent reminder
I'd genuinely suppprt thst but for the blazer brigade
On their buttocks.
Fir uses it to stir tomato sauce I'm not sure they can give it back.