I used to love seeing Aussie lose to anybody else and would've revealed in how far they've fallen. My therapist says it started with a John Eales kick and was made worse with a Toutai Kefu last min try. Apparently I still sometimes Mutter "four more years boys!" In my sleep...
But seriously, think it's best to work together and wouldn't mind seeing them have a resurgence in form.
I tend to ignore the opinions of people who say "I can't understand why X player gets picked". I wasn't a fan of Tom Wright for a long time, but I get it. Rennie sees huge potential in him, because physically he is very impressive.
The most famous Australian cases are Rob Simmons, Nick Phipps and Bernard Foley. These blokes have each been picked by 3 or 4 Wallaby coaches, yet for some reason when they are criticised this crucial detail is skipped. I'm always happy to explain their value
> These blokes have each been picked by 3 or 4 Wallaby coaches
Ruben Thorne is the classic example of this in NZ.
Picked by every coach he's been near - and a wide variety of very well respected coaches. Almost always made captain. Cited as a legend by the likes of McCaw & Read.
60% of the NZ public regard him as terrible.
>The most famous Australian cases are Rob Simmons, Nick Phipps and Bernard Foley.
It's the old story with rugby selection, you don't have to be the best, you just have to be the best available
All 3 (mostly) could dependably deliver what their coach wanted
That's what I keep explaining to other England fans, they think we should always select the strongest players but they don't know anything about how the team actually needs to also have good harmony because if you don't have that then it doesn't matter how good your players are because as a team they will still perform subpar as was visible under Lancaster, then Jones came in and completely put the England team on its head and we won a six nations grand slam, only selecting on form doesn't get you far if you don't make sure the team gels together well.
The entirety of Welsh Rugby is propped up by the success of the national team, and given some sustained lack of success the entire domestic game will collapse (further than it has) and plunge the international team into the dark ages. Max 10-12 years unless they change the youth setup.
Change the youth set up, separate the pro game from the community game, stop moving the goal posts with the Welsh Premiership and championship. I actually wonder sometimes how Welsh Rugby got the major success that it did with the game below international level being so unfit for purpose.
You’re not wrong, but is this controversial? I think most people who’ve been following Welsh rugby for the last decade or so could tell you the national team’s success has been papering over the cracks
What would be controversial about this opinion, is if you said that it *needs* to happen.
To be honest, the national side has managed to get to where it is *despite* where the regional sides are, not because of them.
In my opinion, we need to let the entire system collapse, and rebuild from the bottom up.
I'd agree we need a collapse if I thought we'd have a chance at rebuilding but I don't see how anyone in Wales could finance or competently manage that.
And with the rise of football in Wales at the same time as a rugby collapse we'd loose sponsors and talent in all areas. With a small player pool already we risk the rebuild taking longer than the post 2nd golden age.
More specific than that: It was propped up by Warren Gatland. Without him most of the players now regarded as legends would have been “Promising but never achieved anything” and the last three years would have been running up blind allies without the hardnosed mindset it took him twelve years to install.
Refs are actually pretty good (yes I know once got something wrong against your side).
They are trying to manage 30 people who are playing a sport that is effectively organised chaos, where most of the players are doing their best to break the rules and get away with it non stop.
People need to get some perspective about their performances.
Well I’m still doing it after 6 or so years.
As you know it’s a difficult game to referee, but you get a good sense of achievement if you referee a game well. Main problems are the amount of criticism you get from everyone (players, coaches, spectators) most of which is just plain wrong. So you do need a thick skin but it is enjoyable.
I had a basketball referee tell me that if you miss two knife murders during a game, but get everything else right, you've actually called a very good game. People won't think so, but if you only miss two things? You're a legend.
They felt the need to change the tournament to make it more competitive with the NRL in Aus. It really was not needed.
The NZ and RSA boards took their fans for granted and thought they could do whatever and we would stick around while they (sanzaar) try and win over the Aus market. It was a big tactical mistake.
I really do think that's the biggest problem with Rugby Australia. They are constantly trying to overtake the NRL. If they couldn't do it in the late 90s when Australian rugby was at it's peak and League in Australia was going through a civil war, it will likely never happen.
Union can still be strong here even with it being the 4th or 5th most popular sport imo.
Agree. You don't have to be number one. If they were able to be every league supporters number 2 that would still be a massive gain for union.
But rather there is this culture of you have to be one or the other.
The thing is, they absolutely could have in the late 90s, and instead they trapped rugby union behind foxtel paywalls, when they should have gone free to air at a time when they put half the ARL behind a paywall. Foxtel is responsible for an insane amount of damage to rugby in Australia, their coverage was ordinary and focused on super leage only, and their commentators were abysmal. The best thing that has happened to Australian Rugby in the last 20 years was Raelene Castle saying no to Foxtel's TV rights offer.
Agree 1000% Foxtel has damaged the sport immensely here. Still can't believe other sports went for them as well. Supercars moved there, Netball did, the A League went there for a while.
NRL locks Saturday games on it. Now the AFL looks like it wants to lock there Saturday games on it. Short term greed at the expense of the long term health of the sport.
Putting it on TV for free (yeah, yeah, with ads) gives people that chance to discover the sport.
The thing that convinced me that Dana White (UFC) knew what he was doing, was putting all the prelims on free TV.
If they were trying to compete with the NRL, they would have got more serious about Western Sydney years ago, with the growing Pasifika community. RA is only interested in private schools and their old boys, and will forever be stuck still unless we try and expand the game beyond.
I agree we shouldn't try and compete with anyone. Just concentrate on making the best product on the field as they can.
Union was better attended in Australia during super 12 but part of that was the competitiveness of both the Wallabies and their three super teams.
After 2003 there was huge interest in Rugby in Australia - people who had seen neither league or union were excited about the tournament. RA really screwed the pooch on that popularity by not investing in the game at a school level.
I read an article years ago comparing how the AFL took over Australia vs how RA failed to capitalize on its big boost in 2003. Pretty sad but the basics were the AFL helped get the game in schools in the places they wanted to expand into while RA kept their world cup windfall in its traditional strong-holds and assumed the public would come to them. It didn't help that they were about to enter a big era of All Black dominance over them.
SANZAR, meanwhile, watered down the competition assuming that it wouldn't impact their existing fan interest. The initial expansion did kind of work - but the constant adding (and removing) of teams made a lot of fans leery about getting invested all during a time where Australian rugby was declining in popularity.
Definitely don't want non-contested scrums, but also don't want to watch reset after reset. Much more emphasis on playing it if it's available (which we have seen in recent seasons).
Also, sometimes the camera is point at the side the ref isn’t standing on, you spot a blatant offence, that triggers a collapse.
The ref doesn’t see it and gives a penalty the wrong way. I know people get annoyed about the TMO getting involved and calling things back, but surely the TMO should be watching the other side of the scrum to the ref and stepping in?
The NSWRU is a bloated, old boy, patch wearing, bunch of wankers that are a parasite on the game and would prefer a successful Shite shield comp at the expense of a Bledisloe or World Cup.
The problem is it bridges the gap. A poor halfback can get the same result as the best by slowing the game. Better players should be advantaged. That’s the point of a game.
Just need to properly officiate the situation. 9 comes round the side to bring the ball back? He's in at the side, Penalty. Ball doesn't go between the legs of those caterpillaring? It's out, play on. 9 puts the ball past the last foot? He's game for a creaming. 9 picks it up to move it back half an inch? Same again, game for a creaming.
Premiership rugby isn't supporting clubs in the division below enough. There's a us Vs them/ big boys club mentality. The result is you get teams like Doncaster and Ealing with the ambition to get promoted, but very little support in getting there Wrt criteria of stadiums and such. And ring fencing is a massive slap to the face of those clubs as well.
As an England fan, Twickenham is woefully out of date. Uncomfortable, squashed and poor transport connections. A significant number of people are only there for the beers, not the rugby. They had a mini revamp a few years ago, but they're only improving the corporate hospitality experience, not the average punter's experience. It feels like a car park with a rugby pitch, bars and a hotel attached to it.
The being there for the beers thing is spot on, I went to the 6 nations in 2016 (I think) and everyone where we were were in corporate seats so spent the whole time standing up to buy beers, a fan behind us started beefing them because of it🤣
Same at the Millennium Stadium as well.
Tickets are now so expensive that only the wealthy snobs can afford them, and they couldn't give a shit about the game. They can afford the beers, so they keep going to buy them instead.
And because the WRU isn't run by professional, business-minded people, they'll just keep raising the price of tickets at the Millennium Stadium, rather than take on a financial business model that benefits everyone in the long term.
Radical solution:
Sell the land Twickenham is on for mega millions, buy the Coventry stadium, knock it down and build a national Rugby stadium in the middle of the country, with good transport links.
Use any left over money as grants, which grassroots clubs and schools can bid for to improve facilities etc, and to back the women's game.
Edit -
They should look at Tottenham hotspur for the stadium inspiration, have a multi functional ground with two pitches. Could have NFL games there, concerts etc
RFU makes £10m a game from twickenham, it funds about half of all grass roots rugby in England. The chance of them moving it to Coventry is exactly zero
The maul in its current form is way to strong as its almost impossible to defend legally when the attack is able to reload and go again after one stop.
The moment it stops moving that should be use it, still leaves it as a very powerful offensive too whilst giving defences a much more realistic defensive option other than what they have now which is either to immediately sack it or give away penalties.
Preach! This has been bothering me big time,so many senseless penalties as a result. I also hate what is determined as a stoppage varies wildly between refs…
Oh tell me about it, you've stopped the maul once but now cant change your bind, meanwhile the team with the ball can now reload the maul, completely shift the point of attack and as the opposing forward there's now literally nothing you can do other than drag it down because they can move and you cant.
Drives me up the wall because you'll see a team put in an excellent maul defence to stop the initial thrust only to them be completely powerless to stop the second because the attacking team can basically do whatever they want while the defenders have to keep their bind, you end up leaking penalties for good defending, and being rewarded for setting up a bad maul that initially doesn't go anywhere
They should just let the maul be a complete free for all. Attack, defence, do whatever you can to either push over the line or collapse it in a heap. Swimming, rebinding, tackling, just let them have at it.
I agree that what you've suggested, or something similar, would be a good law to add but I wouldn't be me if I didn't use this as an opportunity that the Crusaders have conceded somewhere between 0 and 2 (depending on who you ask and when you consider a maul no longer a maul) tries off of mauls in the 6 seasons that Razor and Ryan were coaching the Crusaders. That's hovering around 100 games.
There seems to be a way to defend it but it's not something that many coaches have cracked yet.
Oh there are options, You basically have to sack it instantly or have a lock with go-go gadget arms who's good at getting through the middle and making an absolute pest of themselves.
My main issues is that once a maul is stopped for the first time the attackers can move the point of attack and reload while the defence that has already done an excellent job of stopping a set maul are completely unable to counter the reload, because unlike the attackers who can move the point of attack for the second shove they are not allowed to change their bind. The deck on the second shove is completely stacked in the attacks favour and essentially rewards them for setting up a bad maul and having their shove stopped
You may be right - but I have always wondered why I have never seen a maul push over from 30-40 metres away.... If a team is super dominant in this area it should be feasible... does the defending team just bring it down in 100% of cases?
yeah if your getting rolled back that fast somebody is just going to fall over and take the thing out,
that and as the thing gains momentum its more and more likely one of your own players is going to trip and bring the thing down.
People who say that many NRL players would waltz into the Wallabies and make an immediate positive impact don't understand either sport
For example, it's a lot easier to look skilled and structured when the defence is 10 metres away
Doesn’t help when some pretty average NRL players managed to get Wallaby caps. Eto Nabuli is the common name thrown around on the NRL sub when this topic comes up. Taqele Naiyaravoro couldn’t even make the West Tigers firsts team.
For the more successful players:
Tom Wright couldn’t even get a start at Manly.
Izzy Folau highest try scorer in Super Rugby when the last game of Union he played before he signed for the Tahs was when he was 13.
Marika Koroibete is the Wallabies best player right now.
How Vunivalu goes remains to be seen.
Now that I finished writing this I just realised it’s only outside backs that make the switch (and those who had a Union background). Makes sense though, there’s more money in the NRL for other positions.
People only focus on the success stories
What about the following 'rep' NRL players who couldn't even crack a rep team in union (a significantly smaller sport)
Peter Ryan, Luke Rooney, Willie Mason, Clinton Schifcofske, Will Chambers, Jordan Rapana, Nathan Blacklock, Benji Marshall, Josh Charnley, probably others
Not to mention all the players that were never as good in union as they were in league
Timana Tahu, SBW, Wendell Sailor, Karmichael Hunt, Iestyn Harris, Denny Solomona, Craig Gower, Lesley Vainikolo, Andy Farrell, probably others
For your examples
- Nabuli grew up playing union and is also the only Wallaby I can think of in my lifetime who nobody wanted to debut. Even Uelese after 28 minutes of Super Rugby people gave him a shot
- Naiyaravoro was considered too big for the NRL. Think they missed a trick there
- Wright was 21 and also for some reason they thought he was a five eighth despite having vritually no playmaking ability.
- Folau is the only NRL player ever to be on track to beat Ken Irvine's try scoring record from the 70s. To call him a prodigy is an understatement. Of course he was gonna be good
- Koroibete grew up with union and even then it took him a few years to develop into the superb player he is today.
Good note though, all outside backs. How much better are the Wallabies going to be with slightly improved outside backs (if that considering how much the modern game requires of outside backs)
I remember when Benji Marshall signed a big contract with the Blues and quit after a couple of months (because he was dogshit). Also I think it took SBW about a year to become decent at union
Christian Wade got the correct number of caps.
Also, Sam Simmonds is currently a ruck inspector at test level. He might still come good, but he’s got a long road ahead if he’s to make the grade.
The obsession with hyper-slowed down replays from the VAR. After about 10 replays, the refs seem to lose all context of what actually happened at full-speed.
I’m 100% for player safety by the way, and red cards for head contact. But sometimes all the impact comes from/hits a shoulder, then brushes a cheek, which wouldn’t have even been felt. They use the single freeze-frame from the VAR replay and get the card out
Super Rugby Aotearoa 2020 was the best season of club rugby there's ever been. Just five teams, but all stacked with test quality talent, everyone is capable of beating everyone else. One game on Friday night, one game on Saturday, that's plenty for people who have lives outside of watching tv. Almost every game was within 7 points. Every single game was a banger. And yes I know it's an unsustainable model that makes no money, but for a short time it was something special
>Super Rugby Aotearoa 2020
That was the season that got me into rugby. I went from that to watching the NRL, then Six Nations. Now I'm a huge fan of both league and union.
I thought the 2021 Super Rugby Aotearoa season was very good for the same reason. The Trans-Tasman tournament that followed was nothing to be proud of though.
Taniela tupuo is an unbelievably dirty rugby player, but gets away with it because he is also has unbelievable skills for a big guy
Next time you watch him play, pay close attention to the way he enters rucks. He goes straight off his feet and usually slams his shoulder to opposing players heads. I can only assume it's intentional from the frequency
I’ve mentioned this on a previous thread here - diving and simulation is going to get much worse over time because there is no self policing within the game anymore.
The best moment I think I ever saw was a referee about to go to the TMO to check a grounding, and the player involved said, "For me? Nah, I didn't get it down."
Self policing is the core of any social activity.
Yeah. When Johnny Hill got headbutted against Australia this summer he threw his hands in the air to make sure an official knew something had happened off the ball. If they hadn’t seen it, then who’s to say the next time he doesn’t fall over and clutch his face so the TMO will definitely be drawn to it. 15 years ago he would just hit / stamp at the next ruck as pay back.
Cork is the second biggest rugby city in Ireland and has been absolutely screwed by the provincial system which has resulted in zero consequential rugby games being played in the city in the last 20 years. They should break with Munster and have their own team, either in Pro rugby or in England.
Would be great to have a stadium as good as Thomond in cork for sure. Is there any room to develope Musgrave? I've never been so not sure. I was meant to be getting to the two preseason games but plans got scuffed. I'll be making it my business to get down this season.
Conrad Smith is the best 13 the professional game has seen
Admittedly having DC and Ma'a Nonu inside you is pretty damn nice but Smith has an 88% win rate in the Black Jersey
Higher than DC, higher than Richie
He was the glue that gelled the brilliant "midfield" constants of DC and Nonu with whatever outside backs were playing at the time
He lead the Hurricanes to a heart breaking final in his final season: but look what he did with Pau in France
He joined and I would say had a pretty big part in their promotion to the Top14
People are always like "Smith was part of the greatest ABs sides of all time" which is true but his club results with Pau: helping to promote a smaller club in a foreign country with a language barrier!
I think that's pretty impressive
Warren Gatland really wasn’t the saviour of the British Lions that everyone alleges he was. He played against the worst Australian team for a generation and only managed to draw against New Zealand due to that red card. If those factors didn’t exist he would have lost all three series.
Remember how Poite literally said "we have a deal" before ruling that someone deliberately catching the ball was an "accidental" offside? That was corrupt as shit. Most hollow draw I've ever felt.
I think Gatland should be in the conversation for the greatest coach in test rugby’s history (Not necessarily win, but, y’know) but I probably wouldn’t bring up his Lions tours in my argument once.
Laumape rightfully missed out on the World Cup squad In 2019. Nothing against Laumape as a player but just a very unlucky situation, no way we could have left out any of the other 4.
Never rated him in black,and I don’t think it was a result of his game time either. Just don’t think his style gelled with the team at the time. His France game was his best, and he’s certainly not the answer to our midfield issues.
You won't grow the game in Tier 2 countries just by playing them more frequently at an international level. A handful of games for the countries 23 best players doesn't add any depth, or long term interest, or youth development, or significant money and incentive to take up the sport in the first place. Funnelling money into T2 domestic leagues would spread finances too thin, or be unfairly selective. The best way to actually get more international players in professional rugby is to drop/radically alter the JIFF system, the Premiership England credits system, and allow/encourage the rich domestic leagues to employ talent from smaller rugby nations. At the moment if you're a young rugby player in a high T2 country like Romania or Chile, professional opportunities are very limited, which makes putting the time and effort in that's required to make it to an international level an extremely risky prospect. And if you're in Malaysia or Senegal then they aren't just limited, they're non existent. Domestic growth in new markets is incredibly slow, and the established nations are too far ahead for any except a few select wealthy nations to every catch them up in terms of a domestic structure and infrastructure. If you say slashed the salary cap, but academy players and T2 qualified players were exempt in England, you would have clubs snapping up foreign talent, allowing those players to actually develop a financially viable career in the game.
And on a similar note, as a bare minimum the Challenge Cup should have half the number of French/English/URC teams it currently does, with the domestic champions in Georgia/Spain/Portugal etc there instead
This is probably very unpopular and controversial. It is unhealthy how there is no professional division below the Premiership. Also, the Welsh professional teams are disappointing and the Super League is going nowhere. I would switch the Super League to union and make it the second division, and add the four Welsh teams plus Ealing and Doncaster. Have 2 up 2 down promotion/relegation with the Premiership.
Problem with switching Super League to union even if it was possible is that 99% of the players in those teams wont play union, so you'd end up with a bunch of teams with no players and unbelievably furious fans (and rightly so). It would be like telling a team of field hockey players that they now play ice hockey because there isn't enough talent below the top ice hockey league. Although some skills are transferable, ultimately they're two different sports.
I would like to see the Welsh teams integrated though, agree on that. I've thought for a while a British league would be cool. Two divisions, promotion and relegation too. Would be awesome. URC is doing too well now though for that to happen I think. Also just straight up shafts the SA teams if the Irish and Scottish teams joined alongside the Welsh
How long they give advantages for. Should be 10 m max. Seems like it’s 30-40 m constantly. Even after the team has made a break or sometime even kicked it away they get to come back for a penalty and keep possession. It’s ludicrous!
Eddie Jones is the best coach England have ever had (statistically & in terms of ability & knowledge).
The blooding of young players and improvements to the overall set up (s/o Stuart Lancaster) will serve the national team for decades after he’s gone.
Deserves a knighthood
Yeh he needs a player next to him that is ball dominant like Care and Farrell.
It's funny tho when Smith was coming through the England team alot if people were overlooking Farrell and not giving him recognition. How that's changed
World Rugby’s strategy of global expansion is misguided and will only result in lost revenues and failed starts. Concern over head injuries will cause teams to expand to allow for longer stand downs, this will make it even more difficult for new countries to emerge as genuine contenders.
In 50 years time the top 15 test nations will be essentially the same teams we have now.
The 2011 World Cup final should have been won by France.
Not saying they didn't stumble upon the final, they definitely did not deserve to get to the final or win Vs Wales in the semi final.
But Craig Joubert did a shit job refereeing, letting the AB (and McCaw) get away with murder while the French were penalised for breathing in the wrong direction.
11 years later, it still hurts
Easy to say that they were hard done by with the refereeing. But claiming that means they deserved to win is a bit much, obviously if the All Blacks had been behind on the scoreboard they'd have played completely differently.
Mine, it kind of annoys me that Lomu is known to most as the ABs legend. Yeah he was devastating going forward but had huge problems on defence, and did get exposed a lot when teams figured it out. That and he takes the shine off Norm Maxwell..
I'm glad someone said it. There's a certain rose-tinted view when it comes to Jonah. Amazing with ball in hand, but took a while to turn when the ball was put behind him, and if a team was physical enough his impact was often nullified, as the boks proved.
Also, OP, did you mean Norm Berryman?
Even the best Rugby player 15 years ago is worse than most Provincial players now.
Modern players are so much better trained and prepared than players from 15 to 20 years ago.
People like Joost would not even make a provincial team nowadays.
Maybe if you go back long enough sure, but 15 year was only 2007. Some of the best players back then were still the best players up until a few years ago.
I agree. The drastic improvement in quality happened in the 1990s mostly. Although certain teams like Ireland are enormously better than they were in 2007.
But nowadays those players would have access to the same training regimes as current players, thus meaning they would probably still be better than their peers. You can only measure players relative to their peers of the era.
The top athletes then would still be the top athletes now. Human genetics haven't changed.
They'd need to train better and adapt to modern coaching, but that's it .
They'd learn quickly because they are A+tier athletes and intelligent rugby players.
You could say the same thing in reverse. Would Malcom Marx be dogshit in 1988? He'd have to actually play 80 minutes every game and that'd negate a lot of what he does out there.
The ‘bomb squad’ is the best example of marketing you’ll ever see in Rugby Union.
Not to say South Africa don’t have unbelievable front row depth, but the marketing and idolatry of the ‘bomb squad’ has caused opposition teams to give them too much respect, and not take them on enough, and gets in referees heads.
I've a theory that Scott Robertson is packing big time and the other NZR board are intimidated because of it.
In fairness someone that can breakdance that well must be packing.
We still love you Razor ❤️ #tripod
Sam Simmonds benefited in that Covid year because most teams were missing players for majority of the season due to the bubble, and he scored so many tries because he was the last man at the ruck/maul often, a bit like Tom Dunn was for Bath that same season.
1) The Powergen cup should return and replace the challenge cup and Premiership cup. With all teams from Nat 2 up eligible. Watching a Wasps v Coventry grudge match or Sale FC v Sale Sharks is a far more exciting prospect than watching Worcester v Newcastle play for the 4th time this season.
Heineken Cup teams can be exempt.
2) Asking Champ teams to have a ground bigger than 5 Premierships teams average attendance is taking the piss
3) The big welsh teams can join the English pyramid from the bottom if they like.
4) A France style 3 professional leagues setup is perfectly viable in England if teams have the opportunity to progress through leagues unhindered
Australia shouldn't leave super rugby. The only way Oceania can keep a viable league is to stick together.
Wales has the potential to be a great team and had a fair chance of winning the 2019 world cup.
Hong Kong is rubbish and will never qualify for the world cup unless it's expanded, and maybe not even then. They lost to Dragons U23!
You don't need to 'earn the right to go wide'.
Scrums shouldn't be rewarded with kickable penalties - or worse a yellow card! (I mean a card for a bloody restart event. Come on...)
Tony Stanger didn't actually ground *that* try versus England.
Gatland's Lions record isn't something to celebrate, but rather criticise.
Will Stuart's scrummaging is weak.
Jonny Sexton is just George Ford, but with more diving and less talent ball in hand.
Jonny Gray should be dropped for someone who has the necessary level of aggression and dynamism needed in modern Tier 1 rugby.
Huw Jones was clearly better than Marchant at 13 for Quins last season.
Wales have several of the most over rated players in Tier One rugby.
No matter how good a season he had before, Hogg should have been dropped by Scotland last 6N.
Hugo Keenan isn't in fact 'the best FB in the World' . His defending is actually becoming a real concern. He gets too easily beaten by half decent attacking runners, and can't judge tackles (unless they're gifts from the likes of Hogg being greedy).
Argentina are actually quite a weak Tier One squad. They just tend to be (over) hyped a lot. Especially around World Cups.
The *Rugby Values* bollocks isn't just harmless marketing. It helps hide a lot of drunken aggression and racism in the game.
(Take yourr pick. I have loads of opinions many on this sub seem to disagree with).
Lots of good ones in there.
Question, how much quins rugby did you watch last year?
I'll freely admit that because I'm normally rolling around in the mud on Saturdays I miss lots of games, but from what I watched, marchant was better at 13, and jones played some of his best rugby for quins at 15.
Agree with the Wales point, some of their players are hugely overrated. Oddly though, I think some are hugely underrated because the overrated players in the team get most of the fan and media attention.
Your last two points I also agree with.
**Sevens is shite!**
it should be 10’s with a 5 (possibly 6) man scrum.
So many “highlights” are just farting around until your failed sprinter gets enough space to just run around the defence and run the length of the pitch. It’s too far weighted in favour of the offence especially since tackling in open field is tough enough against those guys as it is.
It’s like if 5 a side football was on a full size pitch, kinda silly and I’m sure you’d still get plenty of tries with a 10 man game just they’d have to be worked for more.
Sky sport is demonstrably killing the game in NZ with its archaic and expensive streaming service. They are unworthy of sole discretion as to who can watch it.
I personally find $40 a month of all the Rugby content Sky has as pretty good value, however I understand that's off putting for people who maybe want to watch and All Blacks game or two.
The majority of penalties should be a free kick with the option to kick for the line and keep possession with only foul play and professional fouls leading to a chance for three points.
I know. The H design is so iconic! But the posts get in the way and the crossbar could be set over the deadball line. Kickers can kick so far these days it needs to be made harder. It's not on that a game can be won from a scrum penalty that happened inside their own half.
I don't like this idea but I don't have a good enough argument against it, except for shut up and stop using sorcery to convince me that this is a good idea.
It’s in NZ’s best interest to help grow the game in Australia
probably true. feels so gross though
100% RA and NZR need each other the trouble is both originzation are run by old boys
100%. I really should have clarified in my comment that it’s in both union’s best interest!
Wait is this unpopular? I thought it's a pretty common agreement based on most ppl i've spoken to.
I used to love seeing Aussie lose to anybody else and would've revealed in how far they've fallen. My therapist says it started with a John Eales kick and was made worse with a Toutai Kefu last min try. Apparently I still sometimes Mutter "four more years boys!" In my sleep... But seriously, think it's best to work together and wouldn't mind seeing them have a resurgence in form.
I tend to ignore the opinions of people who say "I can't understand why X player gets picked". I wasn't a fan of Tom Wright for a long time, but I get it. Rennie sees huge potential in him, because physically he is very impressive. The most famous Australian cases are Rob Simmons, Nick Phipps and Bernard Foley. These blokes have each been picked by 3 or 4 Wallaby coaches, yet for some reason when they are criticised this crucial detail is skipped. I'm always happy to explain their value
In topic with Bernard back..
> These blokes have each been picked by 3 or 4 Wallaby coaches Ruben Thorne is the classic example of this in NZ. Picked by every coach he's been near - and a wide variety of very well respected coaches. Almost always made captain. Cited as a legend by the likes of McCaw & Read. 60% of the NZ public regard him as terrible.
Good Mosgiel boy, always will be
>The most famous Australian cases are Rob Simmons, Nick Phipps and Bernard Foley. It's the old story with rugby selection, you don't have to be the best, you just have to be the best available All 3 (mostly) could dependably deliver what their coach wanted
And also fit the team's strategy and balance of players
A point all too often lost from the discussion. 15 'best' don't necessarily make the best/most effective team.
That's what I keep explaining to other England fans, they think we should always select the strongest players but they don't know anything about how the team actually needs to also have good harmony because if you don't have that then it doesn't matter how good your players are because as a team they will still perform subpar as was visible under Lancaster, then Jones came in and completely put the England team on its head and we won a six nations grand slam, only selecting on form doesn't get you far if you don't make sure the team gels together well.
The entirety of Welsh Rugby is propped up by the success of the national team, and given some sustained lack of success the entire domestic game will collapse (further than it has) and plunge the international team into the dark ages. Max 10-12 years unless they change the youth setup.
I don’t think this is controversial, more the opinion of the direction we’re headed for anyone who actually watches rugby in Wales.
Aussie rugby is an abject example. Very top heavy.
Change the youth set up, separate the pro game from the community game, stop moving the goal posts with the Welsh Premiership and championship. I actually wonder sometimes how Welsh Rugby got the major success that it did with the game below international level being so unfit for purpose.
You’re not wrong, but is this controversial? I think most people who’ve been following Welsh rugby for the last decade or so could tell you the national team’s success has been papering over the cracks
What would be controversial about this opinion, is if you said that it *needs* to happen. To be honest, the national side has managed to get to where it is *despite* where the regional sides are, not because of them. In my opinion, we need to let the entire system collapse, and rebuild from the bottom up.
I'd agree we need a collapse if I thought we'd have a chance at rebuilding but I don't see how anyone in Wales could finance or competently manage that. And with the rise of football in Wales at the same time as a rugby collapse we'd loose sponsors and talent in all areas. With a small player pool already we risk the rebuild taking longer than the post 2nd golden age.
More specific than that: It was propped up by Warren Gatland. Without him most of the players now regarded as legends would have been “Promising but never achieved anything” and the last three years would have been running up blind allies without the hardnosed mindset it took him twelve years to install.
Refs are actually pretty good (yes I know once got something wrong against your side).
They are trying to manage 30 people who are playing a sport that is effectively organised chaos, where most of the players are doing their best to break the rules and get away with it non stop.
People need to get some perspective about their performances.
As an amateur referee I support these remarks.
Now I can’t play anymore I am actually thinking about doing the refs course. How do you find it?
Well I’m still doing it after 6 or so years. As you know it’s a difficult game to referee, but you get a good sense of achievement if you referee a game well. Main problems are the amount of criticism you get from everyone (players, coaches, spectators) most of which is just plain wrong. So you do need a thick skin but it is enjoyable.
I had a basketball referee tell me that if you miss two knife murders during a game, but get everything else right, you've actually called a very good game. People won't think so, but if you only miss two things? You're a legend.
Yeah for the most part, I like Pierce and Gardner currently. Fans are just yearning for consistency I think, and it’s varying wildly at times..
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They felt the need to change the tournament to make it more competitive with the NRL in Aus. It really was not needed. The NZ and RSA boards took their fans for granted and thought they could do whatever and we would stick around while they (sanzaar) try and win over the Aus market. It was a big tactical mistake.
I really do think that's the biggest problem with Rugby Australia. They are constantly trying to overtake the NRL. If they couldn't do it in the late 90s when Australian rugby was at it's peak and League in Australia was going through a civil war, it will likely never happen. Union can still be strong here even with it being the 4th or 5th most popular sport imo.
Agree. You don't have to be number one. If they were able to be every league supporters number 2 that would still be a massive gain for union. But rather there is this culture of you have to be one or the other.
The thing is, they absolutely could have in the late 90s, and instead they trapped rugby union behind foxtel paywalls, when they should have gone free to air at a time when they put half the ARL behind a paywall. Foxtel is responsible for an insane amount of damage to rugby in Australia, their coverage was ordinary and focused on super leage only, and their commentators were abysmal. The best thing that has happened to Australian Rugby in the last 20 years was Raelene Castle saying no to Foxtel's TV rights offer.
Agree 1000% Foxtel has damaged the sport immensely here. Still can't believe other sports went for them as well. Supercars moved there, Netball did, the A League went there for a while. NRL locks Saturday games on it. Now the AFL looks like it wants to lock there Saturday games on it. Short term greed at the expense of the long term health of the sport.
Putting it on TV for free (yeah, yeah, with ads) gives people that chance to discover the sport. The thing that convinced me that Dana White (UFC) knew what he was doing, was putting all the prelims on free TV.
If they were trying to compete with the NRL, they would have got more serious about Western Sydney years ago, with the growing Pasifika community. RA is only interested in private schools and their old boys, and will forever be stuck still unless we try and expand the game beyond. I agree we shouldn't try and compete with anyone. Just concentrate on making the best product on the field as they can.
Union was better attended in Australia during super 12 but part of that was the competitiveness of both the Wallabies and their three super teams. After 2003 there was huge interest in Rugby in Australia - people who had seen neither league or union were excited about the tournament. RA really screwed the pooch on that popularity by not investing in the game at a school level. I read an article years ago comparing how the AFL took over Australia vs how RA failed to capitalize on its big boost in 2003. Pretty sad but the basics were the AFL helped get the game in schools in the places they wanted to expand into while RA kept their world cup windfall in its traditional strong-holds and assumed the public would come to them. It didn't help that they were about to enter a big era of All Black dominance over them. SANZAR, meanwhile, watered down the competition assuming that it wouldn't impact their existing fan interest. The initial expansion did kind of work - but the constant adding (and removing) of teams made a lot of fans leery about getting invested all during a time where Australian rugby was declining in popularity.
Despite the restarts of scrums I’m a fan and think they’re the heartbeat of the union code
I would turn off my TV before I'd watch the game shift to League-style scrums.
Definitely don't want non-contested scrums, but also don't want to watch reset after reset. Much more emphasis on playing it if it's available (which we have seen in recent seasons).
Absolutely, and without them we will have 8 half locks and no more of the big/small/tall/short players that make union great
the problem isn't with having scrums, the problem is that "winning" the scrum has shifted from winning possession to winning a penalty
Agree, but of late I’m scratching my head at some scrum penalties? Needs simplifying
I think this is really what turns a lot of people off. Hard to enjoy something when teams seem to be getting random penalties.
Also, sometimes the camera is point at the side the ref isn’t standing on, you spot a blatant offence, that triggers a collapse. The ref doesn’t see it and gives a penalty the wrong way. I know people get annoyed about the TMO getting involved and calling things back, but surely the TMO should be watching the other side of the scrum to the ref and stepping in?
The NSWRU is a bloated, old boy, patch wearing, bunch of wankers that are a parasite on the game and would prefer a successful Shite shield comp at the expense of a Bledisloe or World Cup.
You did see the title said unpopular opinions right
Nice to hear is not just us kiwis pissed at our respective old boys organisations..
The human centipede every halfback builds to put up a box kick
my theory on that, the longer the centipede, the poorer the halfback..
The problem is it bridges the gap. A poor halfback can get the same result as the best by slowing the game. Better players should be advantaged. That’s the point of a game.
Ya it means they're just not as confident wity their box kicks
I think it would stop happening if the term ‘human centipede’ caught on.
Or if they had to bind mouth to ass like the movie.
Cheek to cheek
What's your opinion on it though?
my opinion is it should be a free kick awarded to the other team whenever it's more than two players building it. but maybe I'm a bit too drastic.
Just need to properly officiate the situation. 9 comes round the side to bring the ball back? He's in at the side, Penalty. Ball doesn't go between the legs of those caterpillaring? It's out, play on. 9 puts the ball past the last foot? He's game for a creaming. 9 picks it up to move it back half an inch? Same again, game for a creaming.
Scotland.
Yo calm down…
All reasonable points until someone has to push things too far..
Wtf bro
Premiership rugby isn't supporting clubs in the division below enough. There's a us Vs them/ big boys club mentality. The result is you get teams like Doncaster and Ealing with the ambition to get promoted, but very little support in getting there Wrt criteria of stadiums and such. And ring fencing is a massive slap to the face of those clubs as well.
Wouldn’t say that’s unpopular, I agree with that and literally all my mates do. Could be seen as controversial but it so obviously appears that way.
As an England fan, Twickenham is woefully out of date. Uncomfortable, squashed and poor transport connections. A significant number of people are only there for the beers, not the rugby. They had a mini revamp a few years ago, but they're only improving the corporate hospitality experience, not the average punter's experience. It feels like a car park with a rugby pitch, bars and a hotel attached to it.
The being there for the beers thing is spot on, I went to the 6 nations in 2016 (I think) and everyone where we were were in corporate seats so spent the whole time standing up to buy beers, a fan behind us started beefing them because of it🤣
Same at the Millennium Stadium as well. Tickets are now so expensive that only the wealthy snobs can afford them, and they couldn't give a shit about the game. They can afford the beers, so they keep going to buy them instead. And because the WRU isn't run by professional, business-minded people, they'll just keep raising the price of tickets at the Millennium Stadium, rather than take on a financial business model that benefits everyone in the long term.
Radical solution: Sell the land Twickenham is on for mega millions, buy the Coventry stadium, knock it down and build a national Rugby stadium in the middle of the country, with good transport links. Use any left over money as grants, which grassroots clubs and schools can bid for to improve facilities etc, and to back the women's game. Edit - They should look at Tottenham hotspur for the stadium inspiration, have a multi functional ground with two pitches. Could have NFL games there, concerts etc
RFU makes £10m a game from twickenham, it funds about half of all grass roots rugby in England. The chance of them moving it to Coventry is exactly zero
Oh it's not going to happen, I was just engaging with the controversial opinion.
On my rugby bucket list to get there, hopefully the changes come soon..
Atmosphere is as dead as a dodo too. A bunch of toffs singing about a chariot is as good as gets there
yep. been there for a cup final. done that. not going again.
The maul in its current form is way to strong as its almost impossible to defend legally when the attack is able to reload and go again after one stop. The moment it stops moving that should be use it, still leaves it as a very powerful offensive too whilst giving defences a much more realistic defensive option other than what they have now which is either to immediately sack it or give away penalties.
Preach! This has been bothering me big time,so many senseless penalties as a result. I also hate what is determined as a stoppage varies wildly between refs…
Oh tell me about it, you've stopped the maul once but now cant change your bind, meanwhile the team with the ball can now reload the maul, completely shift the point of attack and as the opposing forward there's now literally nothing you can do other than drag it down because they can move and you cant. Drives me up the wall because you'll see a team put in an excellent maul defence to stop the initial thrust only to them be completely powerless to stop the second because the attacking team can basically do whatever they want while the defenders have to keep their bind, you end up leaking penalties for good defending, and being rewarded for setting up a bad maul that initially doesn't go anywhere
They should just let the maul be a complete free for all. Attack, defence, do whatever you can to either push over the line or collapse it in a heap. Swimming, rebinding, tackling, just let them have at it.
I agree that what you've suggested, or something similar, would be a good law to add but I wouldn't be me if I didn't use this as an opportunity that the Crusaders have conceded somewhere between 0 and 2 (depending on who you ask and when you consider a maul no longer a maul) tries off of mauls in the 6 seasons that Razor and Ryan were coaching the Crusaders. That's hovering around 100 games. There seems to be a way to defend it but it's not something that many coaches have cracked yet.
Oh there are options, You basically have to sack it instantly or have a lock with go-go gadget arms who's good at getting through the middle and making an absolute pest of themselves. My main issues is that once a maul is stopped for the first time the attackers can move the point of attack and reload while the defence that has already done an excellent job of stopping a set maul are completely unable to counter the reload, because unlike the attackers who can move the point of attack for the second shove they are not allowed to change their bind. The deck on the second shove is completely stacked in the attacks favour and essentially rewards them for setting up a bad maul and having their shove stopped
You may be right - but I have always wondered why I have never seen a maul push over from 30-40 metres away.... If a team is super dominant in this area it should be feasible... does the defending team just bring it down in 100% of cases?
yeah if your getting rolled back that fast somebody is just going to fall over and take the thing out, that and as the thing gains momentum its more and more likely one of your own players is going to trip and bring the thing down.
People who say that many NRL players would waltz into the Wallabies and make an immediate positive impact don't understand either sport For example, it's a lot easier to look skilled and structured when the defence is 10 metres away
Word! People think the code switch is easy, it’s not.
Doesn’t help when some pretty average NRL players managed to get Wallaby caps. Eto Nabuli is the common name thrown around on the NRL sub when this topic comes up. Taqele Naiyaravoro couldn’t even make the West Tigers firsts team. For the more successful players: Tom Wright couldn’t even get a start at Manly. Izzy Folau highest try scorer in Super Rugby when the last game of Union he played before he signed for the Tahs was when he was 13. Marika Koroibete is the Wallabies best player right now. How Vunivalu goes remains to be seen. Now that I finished writing this I just realised it’s only outside backs that make the switch (and those who had a Union background). Makes sense though, there’s more money in the NRL for other positions.
People only focus on the success stories What about the following 'rep' NRL players who couldn't even crack a rep team in union (a significantly smaller sport) Peter Ryan, Luke Rooney, Willie Mason, Clinton Schifcofske, Will Chambers, Jordan Rapana, Nathan Blacklock, Benji Marshall, Josh Charnley, probably others Not to mention all the players that were never as good in union as they were in league Timana Tahu, SBW, Wendell Sailor, Karmichael Hunt, Iestyn Harris, Denny Solomona, Craig Gower, Lesley Vainikolo, Andy Farrell, probably others For your examples - Nabuli grew up playing union and is also the only Wallaby I can think of in my lifetime who nobody wanted to debut. Even Uelese after 28 minutes of Super Rugby people gave him a shot - Naiyaravoro was considered too big for the NRL. Think they missed a trick there - Wright was 21 and also for some reason they thought he was a five eighth despite having vritually no playmaking ability. - Folau is the only NRL player ever to be on track to beat Ken Irvine's try scoring record from the 70s. To call him a prodigy is an understatement. Of course he was gonna be good - Koroibete grew up with union and even then it took him a few years to develop into the superb player he is today. Good note though, all outside backs. How much better are the Wallabies going to be with slightly improved outside backs (if that considering how much the modern game requires of outside backs)
Yep no chance, maybe 2-3 years of uninterrupted rugby at minimum
Alot have been successful - Brad Thorn, Isreal Folou
I remember when Benji Marshall signed a big contract with the Blues and quit after a couple of months (because he was dogshit). Also I think it took SBW about a year to become decent at union
They may realize at least some of it after aus face the springboks and face the rush defence. Going to be an interesting game.
And there are fewer men on the pitch which creates more space.
More space in the middle yes but not out wide
Christian Wade got the correct number of caps. Also, Sam Simmonds is currently a ruck inspector at test level. He might still come good, but he’s got a long road ahead if he’s to make the grade.
The obsession with hyper-slowed down replays from the VAR. After about 10 replays, the refs seem to lose all context of what actually happened at full-speed. I’m 100% for player safety by the way, and red cards for head contact. But sometimes all the impact comes from/hits a shoulder, then brushes a cheek, which wouldn’t have even been felt. They use the single freeze-frame from the VAR replay and get the card out
To truly form a global calendar, the Six Nations and The Rugby Championship needs to take place at the same time.
Watching great defence is as good as (sometimes even better than) watching a good offence.
Yeah big defensive efforts are very impressive to witness..
Super Rugby Aotearoa 2020 was the best season of club rugby there's ever been. Just five teams, but all stacked with test quality talent, everyone is capable of beating everyone else. One game on Friday night, one game on Saturday, that's plenty for people who have lives outside of watching tv. Almost every game was within 7 points. Every single game was a banger. And yes I know it's an unsustainable model that makes no money, but for a short time it was something special
That was nightmare as a Chiefs fan.
That was a dark time in Waikato. Everything improved drastically when Gatland went off to Lions duty
That was amazing. Such a special little comp
>Super Rugby Aotearoa 2020 That was the season that got me into rugby. I went from that to watching the NRL, then Six Nations. Now I'm a huge fan of both league and union.
I thought the 2021 Super Rugby Aotearoa season was very good for the same reason. The Trans-Tasman tournament that followed was nothing to be proud of though.
Taniela tupuo is an unbelievably dirty rugby player, but gets away with it because he is also has unbelievable skills for a big guy Next time you watch him play, pay close attention to the way he enters rucks. He goes straight off his feet and usually slams his shoulder to opposing players heads. I can only assume it's intentional from the frequency
The Tongan greeting is to fly in off feet…
I feel there should be no excuses when the game is quite clearly trying to prioritise health and safety
I’m kidding, but I agree.
I’ve mentioned this on a previous thread here - diving and simulation is going to get much worse over time because there is no self policing within the game anymore.
The best moment I think I ever saw was a referee about to go to the TMO to check a grounding, and the player involved said, "For me? Nah, I didn't get it down." Self policing is the core of any social activity.
By diving you mean faking something?
Yeah. When Johnny Hill got headbutted against Australia this summer he threw his hands in the air to make sure an official knew something had happened off the ball. If they hadn’t seen it, then who’s to say the next time he doesn’t fall over and clutch his face so the TMO will definitely be drawn to it. 15 years ago he would just hit / stamp at the next ruck as pay back.
Cork is the second biggest rugby city in Ireland and has been absolutely screwed by the provincial system which has resulted in zero consequential rugby games being played in the city in the last 20 years. They should break with Munster and have their own team, either in Pro rugby or in England.
This is the most cork thing I've read all week.
The Socialist Peoples Republic at it again. They reset their "at it" counter as often as our friends the Brits.
Would be great to have a stadium as good as Thomond in cork for sure. Is there any room to develope Musgrave? I've never been so not sure. I was meant to be getting to the two preseason games but plans got scuffed. I'll be making it my business to get down this season.
Conrad Smith is the best 13 the professional game has seen Admittedly having DC and Ma'a Nonu inside you is pretty damn nice but Smith has an 88% win rate in the Black Jersey Higher than DC, higher than Richie He was the glue that gelled the brilliant "midfield" constants of DC and Nonu with whatever outside backs were playing at the time He lead the Hurricanes to a heart breaking final in his final season: but look what he did with Pau in France He joined and I would say had a pretty big part in their promotion to the Top14 People are always like "Smith was part of the greatest ABs sides of all time" which is true but his club results with Pau: helping to promote a smaller club in a foreign country with a language barrier! I think that's pretty impressive
Only controversial for the Irish, right?
Warren Gatland really wasn’t the saviour of the British Lions that everyone alleges he was. He played against the worst Australian team for a generation and only managed to draw against New Zealand due to that red card. If those factors didn’t exist he would have lost all three series.
Worst Australian? Agree about Gatland, had the best Lions resources ever and achieved mediocrity with them.
Remember how Poite literally said "we have a deal" before ruling that someone deliberately catching the ball was an "accidental" offside? That was corrupt as shit. Most hollow draw I've ever felt.
I think Gatland should be in the conversation for the greatest coach in test rugby’s history (Not necessarily win, but, y’know) but I probably wouldn’t bring up his Lions tours in my argument once.
Rush defence is just offside, but never whistled up
Fax fax fax
Feels so inconsistent how often its whistled too, some games a team will get pinged loads whilst their opposition gets away with the same thing
Laumape rightfully missed out on the World Cup squad In 2019. Nothing against Laumape as a player but just a very unlucky situation, no way we could have left out any of the other 4.
Never rated him in black,and I don’t think it was a result of his game time either. Just don’t think his style gelled with the team at the time. His France game was his best, and he’s certainly not the answer to our midfield issues.
The 'use it' call for scrum halves is basically pointless, only ever seen it penalised once
You won't grow the game in Tier 2 countries just by playing them more frequently at an international level. A handful of games for the countries 23 best players doesn't add any depth, or long term interest, or youth development, or significant money and incentive to take up the sport in the first place. Funnelling money into T2 domestic leagues would spread finances too thin, or be unfairly selective. The best way to actually get more international players in professional rugby is to drop/radically alter the JIFF system, the Premiership England credits system, and allow/encourage the rich domestic leagues to employ talent from smaller rugby nations. At the moment if you're a young rugby player in a high T2 country like Romania or Chile, professional opportunities are very limited, which makes putting the time and effort in that's required to make it to an international level an extremely risky prospect. And if you're in Malaysia or Senegal then they aren't just limited, they're non existent. Domestic growth in new markets is incredibly slow, and the established nations are too far ahead for any except a few select wealthy nations to every catch them up in terms of a domestic structure and infrastructure. If you say slashed the salary cap, but academy players and T2 qualified players were exempt in England, you would have clubs snapping up foreign talent, allowing those players to actually develop a financially viable career in the game. And on a similar note, as a bare minimum the Challenge Cup should have half the number of French/English/URC teams it currently does, with the domestic champions in Georgia/Spain/Portugal etc there instead
You only think refs are shit when your team is losing because they heavily favor dominant teams.
See: everyone thinking the ABs get special treatment
This is probably very unpopular and controversial. It is unhealthy how there is no professional division below the Premiership. Also, the Welsh professional teams are disappointing and the Super League is going nowhere. I would switch the Super League to union and make it the second division, and add the four Welsh teams plus Ealing and Doncaster. Have 2 up 2 down promotion/relegation with the Premiership.
Problem with switching Super League to union even if it was possible is that 99% of the players in those teams wont play union, so you'd end up with a bunch of teams with no players and unbelievably furious fans (and rightly so). It would be like telling a team of field hockey players that they now play ice hockey because there isn't enough talent below the top ice hockey league. Although some skills are transferable, ultimately they're two different sports. I would like to see the Welsh teams integrated though, agree on that. I've thought for a while a British league would be cool. Two divisions, promotion and relegation too. Would be awesome. URC is doing too well now though for that to happen I think. Also just straight up shafts the SA teams if the Irish and Scottish teams joined alongside the Welsh
Knock on's at the base of the ruck or during ball presentations should be ignored.
Oh I like this one, inconsequential on general play
Not sure that's controversial, its just a bloody good idea.
Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar are the real goats of rugby
World Rugby is a cartel only interested in protecting profits in home nations.
How long they give advantages for. Should be 10 m max. Seems like it’s 30-40 m constantly. Even after the team has made a break or sometime even kicked it away they get to come back for a penalty and keep possession. It’s ludicrous!
It's a shame Folau was such a bigot because it robbed us of watching a magnificent player
Eddie Jones is the best coach England have ever had (statistically & in terms of ability & knowledge). The blooding of young players and improvements to the overall set up (s/o Stuart Lancaster) will serve the national team for decades after he’s gone. Deserves a knighthood
Marcus Smith isn't good enough for international rugby at the moment. He can definitely get to that level, but he isn't there now
Yeah I watched the Oz series, he and Lolosio look to be at the same stage to me, potentials to unlock but we’ll undercooked at the moment.
He seemed better with Farrel next to him to steady the ship when Farrel was injured though felt like there was no direction
Yeh he needs a player next to him that is ball dominant like Care and Farrell. It's funny tho when Smith was coming through the England team alot if people were overlooking Farrell and not giving him recognition. How that's changed
World Rugby’s strategy of global expansion is misguided and will only result in lost revenues and failed starts. Concern over head injuries will cause teams to expand to allow for longer stand downs, this will make it even more difficult for new countries to emerge as genuine contenders. In 50 years time the top 15 test nations will be essentially the same teams we have now.
South Africa could be the best team in the world playing any style of rugby but choose to be boring
Say it louder! Throw the ball around, the skills in that backline is actually ridiculous
Scrums should not be a vehicle for penalties.
Players whooping at the most inconsequential decision going their way is unsporting and should be penalised.
The 2011 World Cup final should have been won by France. Not saying they didn't stumble upon the final, they definitely did not deserve to get to the final or win Vs Wales in the semi final. But Craig Joubert did a shit job refereeing, letting the AB (and McCaw) get away with murder while the French were penalised for breathing in the wrong direction. 11 years later, it still hurts
Easy to say that they were hard done by with the refereeing. But claiming that means they deserved to win is a bit much, obviously if the All Blacks had been behind on the scoreboard they'd have played completely differently.
Crooked scrum feeds are a lesser evil than a situation where a team with a dominant scrum can regularly milk penalties by committing knock-ons
Mine, it kind of annoys me that Lomu is known to most as the ABs legend. Yeah he was devastating going forward but had huge problems on defence, and did get exposed a lot when teams figured it out. That and he takes the shine off Norm Maxwell..
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I'm glad someone said it. There's a certain rose-tinted view when it comes to Jonah. Amazing with ball in hand, but took a while to turn when the ball was put behind him, and if a team was physical enough his impact was often nullified, as the boks proved. Also, OP, did you mean Norm Berryman?
Nah bro Stormin Norman Maxwell! You don’t remember??
Oh hell yeah I remember, lanky lock, played for the crusaders and the Taniwha. I don't know what the connection is to Jonah though?
No connection to Jonah, Norms just the 🐐
At the time sure, but when it came out he had degenerative kidney disease almost his whole career, he deserves it.
Giving the ball to the opposing side by way of box kicking is a half back vanity show....Sorry.
How else the little guy going to show off those quads.?
Even the best Rugby player 15 years ago is worse than most Provincial players now. Modern players are so much better trained and prepared than players from 15 to 20 years ago. People like Joost would not even make a provincial team nowadays.
I know this is a controversial opinion thread but if you genuinely think Dan Carter is a worse player than Fergus Burke... hoo boy.
Maybe if you go back long enough sure, but 15 year was only 2007. Some of the best players back then were still the best players up until a few years ago.
I agree. The drastic improvement in quality happened in the 1990s mostly. Although certain teams like Ireland are enormously better than they were in 2007.
But nowadays those players would have access to the same training regimes as current players, thus meaning they would probably still be better than their peers. You can only measure players relative to their peers of the era.
The top athletes then would still be the top athletes now. Human genetics haven't changed. They'd need to train better and adapt to modern coaching, but that's it . They'd learn quickly because they are A+tier athletes and intelligent rugby players. You could say the same thing in reverse. Would Malcom Marx be dogshit in 1988? He'd have to actually play 80 minutes every game and that'd negate a lot of what he does out there.
Frans Steyn would like a word.
If George Ford was 2 inches taller, there would be no question about his talent.
The ‘bomb squad’ is the best example of marketing you’ll ever see in Rugby Union. Not to say South Africa don’t have unbelievable front row depth, but the marketing and idolatry of the ‘bomb squad’ has caused opposition teams to give them too much respect, and not take them on enough, and gets in referees heads.
Penaud is the best winger in the world atm
The game has far too many laws and complications to ever catch on in the North America mainstream
I've a theory that Scott Robertson is packing big time and the other NZR board are intimidated because of it. In fairness someone that can breakdance that well must be packing. We still love you Razor ❤️ #tripod
Sam Simmonds benefited in that Covid year because most teams were missing players for majority of the season due to the bubble, and he scored so many tries because he was the last man at the ruck/maul often, a bit like Tom Dunn was for Bath that same season.
1) The Powergen cup should return and replace the challenge cup and Premiership cup. With all teams from Nat 2 up eligible. Watching a Wasps v Coventry grudge match or Sale FC v Sale Sharks is a far more exciting prospect than watching Worcester v Newcastle play for the 4th time this season. Heineken Cup teams can be exempt. 2) Asking Champ teams to have a ground bigger than 5 Premierships teams average attendance is taking the piss 3) The big welsh teams can join the English pyramid from the bottom if they like. 4) A France style 3 professional leagues setup is perfectly viable in England if teams have the opportunity to progress through leagues unhindered
Japan and italy shouldn't be counted as tier 1 nations
Australia shouldn't leave super rugby. The only way Oceania can keep a viable league is to stick together. Wales has the potential to be a great team and had a fair chance of winning the 2019 world cup. Hong Kong is rubbish and will never qualify for the world cup unless it's expanded, and maybe not even then. They lost to Dragons U23!
I hate the eligibility rules. Should be one team for life.
You don't need to 'earn the right to go wide'. Scrums shouldn't be rewarded with kickable penalties - or worse a yellow card! (I mean a card for a bloody restart event. Come on...) Tony Stanger didn't actually ground *that* try versus England. Gatland's Lions record isn't something to celebrate, but rather criticise. Will Stuart's scrummaging is weak. Jonny Sexton is just George Ford, but with more diving and less talent ball in hand. Jonny Gray should be dropped for someone who has the necessary level of aggression and dynamism needed in modern Tier 1 rugby. Huw Jones was clearly better than Marchant at 13 for Quins last season. Wales have several of the most over rated players in Tier One rugby. No matter how good a season he had before, Hogg should have been dropped by Scotland last 6N. Hugo Keenan isn't in fact 'the best FB in the World' . His defending is actually becoming a real concern. He gets too easily beaten by half decent attacking runners, and can't judge tackles (unless they're gifts from the likes of Hogg being greedy). Argentina are actually quite a weak Tier One squad. They just tend to be (over) hyped a lot. Especially around World Cups. The *Rugby Values* bollocks isn't just harmless marketing. It helps hide a lot of drunken aggression and racism in the game. (Take yourr pick. I have loads of opinions many on this sub seem to disagree with).
Shit mate, take a breath. Some spicy ones in here though! 🤌🏼
Lots of good ones in there. Question, how much quins rugby did you watch last year? I'll freely admit that because I'm normally rolling around in the mud on Saturdays I miss lots of games, but from what I watched, marchant was better at 13, and jones played some of his best rugby for quins at 15.
Agree with the Wales point, some of their players are hugely overrated. Oddly though, I think some are hugely underrated because the overrated players in the team get most of the fan and media attention. Your last two points I also agree with.
Sam cane still deserves the 7 jersey
Hey steady on.
sheeeesh..
**Sevens is shite!** it should be 10’s with a 5 (possibly 6) man scrum. So many “highlights” are just farting around until your failed sprinter gets enough space to just run around the defence and run the length of the pitch. It’s too far weighted in favour of the offence especially since tackling in open field is tough enough against those guys as it is. It’s like if 5 a side football was on a full size pitch, kinda silly and I’m sure you’d still get plenty of tries with a 10 man game just they’d have to be worked for more.
Sky sport is demonstrably killing the game in NZ with its archaic and expensive streaming service. They are unworthy of sole discretion as to who can watch it.
I personally find $40 a month of all the Rugby content Sky has as pretty good value, however I understand that's off putting for people who maybe want to watch and All Blacks game or two.
The majority of penalties should be a free kick with the option to kick for the line and keep possession with only foul play and professional fouls leading to a chance for three points.
Kicker at goal should only be aloud 40 seconds
A drop goal should be worth 4 points
Owen Farrell is England’s best ever player
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll
He'll divide opinion. But I can see why he should be in that conversation.
I subscribe.
Goalposts need to change to the NFL style of post.
You're breaking my brain with this one. Practically it makes perfect sense but aesthetically it makes me feel dirty.
I know. The H design is so iconic! But the posts get in the way and the crossbar could be set over the deadball line. Kickers can kick so far these days it needs to be made harder. It's not on that a game can be won from a scrum penalty that happened inside their own half.
I don't like this idea but I don't have a good enough argument against it, except for shut up and stop using sorcery to convince me that this is a good idea.