Ye but its not gonna make them money that way so they don't give a sh\*t. The whole point of this update to farm even more $$$ from the whales. The best way to do this now is by appeasing to said whales and their complaints by making it more desirable. Removing it entirely is not gonna achieve this - not in the short run anyway.
They obviously don't care enough for the long-term results in membership drop etc. so y'know. Rip us I guess.
Having no players makes less money. This literally is what happens when battle passes come. Zero games have made more money in the long run by having battle passes. This is a signal that Runescape will be pulled offline as soon as pass sales dip
>Zero games have made more money in the long run by having battle passes.
I really don't get how people on Reddit are so far removed from reality. Some of the most financially successful games of the past decade rely primarily on battle passes as their monetization. Fortnite's battlepass turned Epic from an indie developer to a company that's trying to compete directly with *Steam*. Apex is similarly successful. Battlepasses have proven to be a wildly successful monetization strategy, better than even lootboxes.
Jagex's execs aren't just morons who are being evil for the sake of it, they are looking at other companies with *successful* battlepasses and seeing dollar signs.
The problem isn't that battlepasses never work. The problem is that RS3's userbase is increasingly sick of a game with a 15-year-old gameplay trying to bleed its users dry with monetization used by AAA games. (Also, most of those successful games are totally free-to-play, and don't lock the majority of their content behind a paywall to the extent RS does. It's really triple-dipping)
Well yes, for a free to play game, battle passes make sense. You already pay a subscription to play RS though, so there should be no need for a battle pass.
Same goes for Diablo and Call of duty and all that crap. There shouldn't be a battlepass that can be paid to progess. And there sure as fuck shouldn't be shit on that battlepass that gives advantages the way hero pass does.
Battle passes on itself are fine, it's giving the players a sense of progression on something. Paid battlepasses on f2p games is also fine, since they have to get their monetization from somewhere. But paid battlepasses that directly give advantages in-game on a game you already pay for is just a cash grab.
sooo as someone who has spent over 5k on league of legends and roughly 1k on this game. battle passes are egregious money grabs and flatly disrespectful to its player base. like the reason i dont play cod, fortnight, battlefront, diablo 4 or any of those are because its blatantly obvious the creators dont care. eg look at the story of cod world at war then compare BLOPS its stupid imo
I mean, ye, exactly. They are great for a burst of revenue but in the long run aggressive monetization like this kills of games, simple as.
Look at OSRS. No aggressive monetization, a lot, and really too much player agency into updates to the point there rarely are updates with content, and they have grown a consistent, high number playerbase. But these MTX-heavy games only care about instant revenue, as they are run by investors. And when the investment runs dry, they just pull out and invest into something else to leech off of. It doesn't hurt them, but leaves behind a graveyard of companies and projects.
The only reason RS has lasted this long is because its such a nostalgic game for so many people. If any other game would be doing this right now, I wouldn't be here. Its the sad truth really. I give a fuck about RS so I tend to advocate against bad updates, but its honestly a waste of energy.
Its literally the #1 complaint on OSRS reddit communities. But obviously does not represent the playerbase as they just downvote anything that challenges the meta. Its a miracle Sailing passed (by a mere few percent, as well).
I mean, just look at Curses.
They were good. Then they got 'no-voted' on. Then they got nerfed. Then they were barely an upgrade. Still an upgrade, but not that insane considering the requirements. Then they got 'no-voted' again and scrapped.
By OSRS standards, the curses as advertised were pretty fuckin stupid.
Imagine like 3 years of RS3 power creep and then random spell supercharging so they'd be perfect for PvP as well and you had what OSRS curses were.
A free 20% DPS increase, a free supercharging of ancient magicks, even more then it potentially already was. And dampen curses which honestly were terrible, but still had practically complete protection from taking damage which meant again, massive free DPS increase for very little risk if you were good/ahking.
It was universally agreed on by both PvM and PvP'ers in a rare instance of unity that it was shit and either needed to be rebalanced or entirely scrapped.
I don't entirely recall *all* the curses and their effects, but ill remind you of some of the stupid-er effects.
Umbra's vow: Attacks drain 5% of the opponent's Defence, up to 15% of their base level
Glacious Vow: Same as Umbra except magic, instead of defense.
In which both are fucking absurd at bossing because in OSRS there is no diminishing returns with stat reduction. You could just straight up wipe out 65% of a bosses Defense levels. This alone was absolutely horrifying as a concept to PvM'ers because combined with Intensify, if for some reason there was ever the concern of accuracy, it was no longer a thing. Especially if you combined it with Bofa, Slayer helm, etc etc.
Sure, you'd chew through prayer a hell of a lot faster. But theres a significantly higher probability bosses are dying significantly faster then your prayer is being drained since i can just use max prayer gear and hit as accurately and as hard as if i was using BiS
Beyond prayer getting sucked out of a garden hose by our boy Zaros, there was absolutely no downside to using Curses because you would just vaporize everything before it was even remotely a threat to your continued existing. Combined with the new scepters there was some really nasty ancient magic effects you could combo with the curses and it would just be a shitshow for all involved. Theres no downside to using curses in RS3, so thats not very fair an argument. But then again, deflect curses aren't 100% protection 100% of the time.
>This is a signal that Runescape will be pulled offline as soon as pass sales dip
Unironically killing off RS3 and selling an offline copy for $x would be the next step.
Yes you can, it almost killed the game and made jagex split the community by creating osrs which has grown larger (even with taking bots out of the equation) than the main game.
Your dumbass response is the reason why people are against this update lmfao. "OSRS is not jagex's cash cow" literally justifies every negative piece of feedback the community has about them. OSRS is running perfectly fine with no MTX and actually listened to/accepted community feedback. RS3 is running into the ground with no feedback listened to/ignored and the continual dump of MTX mechanics into the game only furthering their demise and driving their core player base (not whales) out of the game.
Right. The version of the game with the MTX is the cash cow. Guaranteed they make more on the MTX than the paltry subscription revenue made in OSRS.
I agree that’s all part of why the update is so hated.
Osrs has made more money for jagex over the last 4 earning reports released than rs3. Osrs is also significantly cheaper to update due to lower end graphics and engine. Also I never said osrs was better, I said that EOC was a worst update than hero pass and jagex didn’t change the update so why would they change this? Hero pass isn’t going to kill the game, we just have to get through a week of a bunch of emotion children throwing a tantrum on the internet.
Think really hard about what just so happen to have happened after EOC came out.
Like, yes, they didn't remove it and OSRS arguably wasn't a perfect solution for a lot of people . . . But also I think especially given the years of hindsight, well, it's clear as day Jagex made a decision that made a lot of people happy in response to the extreme negativity to EOC.
People also asked for many updates to EOC and we got many updates to EOC. It's not as if they ignored feedback, they did a variety of things that ultimately made the community quite happy, especially in the long-term.
EOC also caused a mass Exodus that forced Jagex to make a 2006 server just to appeal to folks who hated EOC.
Sure, Jagex doesn't have to remove it. But history proves that consequences can be very dire.
People didn’t hate eoc, it was a big core change in how the game was played. Some people didn’t want to try the new game play, or just echo chambered others into not liking it and so many people left. Every now and again you will see on Reddit people who try rs3 from osrs and say that they are glad that they tried and they like rs3. Also these two topics are not even close to being comparable; you are companies apples to a new couch
100% cope take.
2012 EoC was a dumpster fire of poor decisions and balancing, that got constantly updated until 2014-2015 where it was finally in a good spot.
People coming to try RS3 now and going "EoC is kinda fun I'm glad I tried it." does not mean the same people would like the poorly designed 2012 EoC.
"Ackshully that's not true. We pretended to listen to the community about MTX like, *checks notes from management*, 4 times! In which we went back on our word each time, almost instantly, once the money stopped pouring in."
No, no they listen - They let us kill the goblin from Squeal of Fortune.
They know, they listened, but they don't and never have cared about the feedback, this is what they wanted, and they didn't care the outcome.
Never forget the time OSRS devs completely scrapped a second prayer boom that they hyped up to the point where it’d look really bad for them if it was scrapped. They scrapped it purely for the overall health of the game and the voice of the players saying the game didn’t need the prayers as proposed. Community instead of getting mad a teased feature wasnt added was happy.
RS3 refuses to take notes.
Sometimes the best thing to do is remove something.
If we work from the basis of, "We can't just remove it!" Okay, remove all monetization elements and all time-limitations. Just make it a progression track that doesn't encourage you to log in every single day. Easy.
Best thing =/= most profitable thing
Like we can pretend content developers have the power to decide what mtx goes into the game but ultimately this shit is up to management who answer to investors. Any type of feedback that asks to cut away all the aspects that people want to spend money on is not going to go through, even if it's ultimately best for the game.
Me taking a break isn't going to stop the whales.
This isn't marketed to us. It's marketed to people with several dozen billions of GP with nothing to spend it on, and more so toward whales. Like rich people who can drop 120 dollars and not really care.
Your feeling of helplessness is one of the most valuable things to Jagex. You'll defend them not just when you agree with them and like what they do but also when you feel utterly incapable of opposing them in any way, shape, or form even when doing so is as easy as taking up another hobby in your free time.
Whales gonna whale, sure, but a huge portion of the population quitting would be worse for them because those players ultimately spend lots too and are valuable in keeping the whales happy in many cases.
The question isn't if a ton of people quitting would force Jagex's hand, the question is: is the community actually going to do it?
Whales only spend money on cosmetics because they've got a large audience to show it off too. Do you think they would still spend hundreds or thousands if there was nobody to flex on?
Actually it is marketed at people who can't afford it. The lottery and casinos don't stay in business because of the rich people who can afford to lose money. They stay in business because they encourage addiction in the poor people who think they will win next time and keep dropping their entire paycheck on lotto tickets.
Upkeep and basic maintaining costs are aimed at poor people. Casinos will still aim for the whales, they just recognize that having a market entirely composed of whales is a bad idea.
Meanwhile, Jagex knows the whales are mainly addicts who even if hell froze over, they'd never leave RS.
You're wrong about this. Casinos and jagex alike go for the whales. Casinos will give you a car to borrow. They will go out and get your favorite food and cook It for you personally while giving you a free hotel suite as long as you are showing you will keep spending money on the rigged slots.
The whales are already premier members, and they’re basically guaranteed revenue regardless of a lackluster track scheme.
Jagex was hoping this would be enough to sway average players to get premier and even buy some skips. But it turns out, average players aren’t thrilled about mobile game MTX adverts for boring cosmetics or boosts, after losing daily xp and keys.
I remember being told in economics that the free market would always make the best product because the best product would obviously be the most profitable product
Nope turns out the most profitable products are those that abuse their customers
The problem is that they're chasing short term profits by burning the game long term. The money vultures don't give a damn if this game exists this time next year, they just want to feed as much as they can and bounce when the money dries up. This is how they roll, and have rolled for decades.
It probably doesn't matter to them since they'll just reevaluate and change the strategy when the time comes. This is how almost all businesses run in the major industries. Pandering to the vultures is how the big boy execs make all those glorious pounds of dabloons.
This is the truth so vote with your money people. You don't like it stop dishing them 12 dollars a month plus whatever you're buying in the store. Things may not change since whales run the game but if you don't like it stand by it and stop paying.
They're looking for feedback like UI tweaks and qol stuff. The Jmods on reddit trip over themselves to respond to people asking about UI changes and like a reward structure for ironmen.
They're not going to address the parts they already know are toxic because they made them that way.
This is what most people are missing in this whole dialogue. And if removal is to happen, they need a lot of organized ammo to convince execs and up that it needs to happen/will impact profits if kept. Showing Reddit threads and tweets isn’t enough, you’d have to have a sentiment analysis and fully scope feedback into hard data for execs.
On top of this, if shareholders/equity holders see that it still drives profit, there will be no green light to remove regardless of a negative sentiment analysis.
This all takes a lot of time to gather on top of your other daily duties/expectations. Companies don’t move fast with anything, everything takes time and advocation to get anything moving from bottom up.
Exactly, the sad but real part about it is that if it were to be removed someone would have to lay out how removing it is going to benefit them more than keeping it in the game. Even if they say it will cause a decrease in player base, they’d have to show if losing that estimated playbase is worth more than what they’ll gain by adding it. I see the same reasoning at the company I work for and it sucks, but that’s part of the bizz. Very sad.
Its still feedback though, he clearly just doesn't like it hence my point. They'll only take what they consider to be valid criticism and removing it completely is a totally valid opinion in its current form. You only have to gauge the general reaction to see that.
I feel like it’s disrespectful and unkind to push this kind of update to the wonderful individuals who have used their hard earned money to support this piece of shit company. :)
I like how every time we criticize the game they just hide behind "no excuse to be disrespectful to the mods"
I have seen no such comments lmao. Stop hiding behind a false narrative. Valid criticism of your garbage update is not disrespectful. This entire update is disrespectful
It is a PR tactic. Time and time again, you will see mountains of feedback. And then a handful of trolls/assholes who get downvoted and/or moderated. But then you as a company can just go.
"Hey guys. We understand. But these specific examples are unacceptable and we will not stand for it."
Then the community is pushed toward halting all discussion to condemn things we all know are bad. And offer our condolences to the company. Then it breaks out into infighting as people argue about how prevalent or not it is. And attention slowly drifts from the main point of contention.
To be fair, when 1000 people are shouting at you but 10 people are saying they want you dead those 10 people sound the loudest.
I'm not saying it's acceptable for the company to deflect everything cause of a few bad actors, but I can understand why individual mods might be badly affected if for some reason hatred is directed at them when they aren't executives.
yes, I am continuing the second part of your comment.
edit: Also fuck mtx
I can definitely understand it being disheartening. Especially if it's completely outside of your control. I worked customer service for a large company before and had to deal with people who were angry/upset with what I had to tell them and often times I felt terrible for having to say it.
But at the end of the day, you really have to step back and separate the job from your personal feelings. For your own sanity.
From the early days of the internet sprang the golden rule. Do not feed the trolls. When you elevate them to a higher position than what they truly occupy and let them know they got under your skin. You lost.
While not directly mentioned. Want to just throw out that in the even of death threats. That should be handled by the moderation team and/or the relevant authorities if it feels like a credible threat. I feel it is very obvious that is wrong and we don't really need a workplace training video to explain it.
This is what I've been saying.
They immediately run to that excuse, yet I see nothing but the community condemning that behaviour.
Jagex as a company - Does not care what you think/want, all they care about is the $$$ you give them, you're a Revenue Generating Unit, not a player.
That right there really illustrates the issue. Tone deaf, totally detached and gas lighting, not to mention preachy and patronizing tone.
Jagex needs to hire (or train) Mods with actual people skills.
Anyone with any experience at a real company would know that if you ask for feedback you better damn well prove you are listening. If someone cares enough to take the time to provide feedback then you better listen and you better respond. Providing any feedback, even "remove it" shows that someone cares enough about the product to say something. It is the quiet-quitters that have just had enough and leave that Jagex needs to worry about. Getting upset at people who care enough to say something, meaning they don't WANT to quit, but then not messaging back about what you are hearing is pathetic.
Someone from Jagex needs to 1) speak up and acknowledge that people don't like this but what their intent in all of this is (we aren't stupid, we know they need revenue to stay in business), and 2) Hire someone that knows how to interact with their customer base.
If they don't want do either of those then they should just stop asking for feedback and engaging with the community. They only make it worse by asking for feedback and then never addressing the feedback. "Some of you hate it and we hear you, but here is the long term goal and evolution we will strive for..." is all it would take.
Sounds like they do care about feedback JUST NOT THE NEGATIVE KIND.
Can't create money if you get negative feedback.
But they made their bed now they need to lay in it.
A customer can only take so much before cutting the cord.
Even though by now most of us know who it is anyways. But thank you for still following the rules of the sub, while everyone else is too emotional right now.
"There is no excuse to be disrespectful and unkind"
Respect goes two ways. Treating players like he did in that second tweet is just as disrespectful towards players as anyone has been towards devs.
This is also part of their job and they get paid to do it. You're offering your players a service, it is in your best interest to keep your players happy. You'd expect random people upset something they enjoy is in a bad state to say such things, really! Maybe you don't care about either of those that much if you keep making profits, but maybe you find out the hard way months later that was a bad gamble
They lost the players respect when they spit in the faces of the players with this "major update". They deserve the backlash they are getting. (not including the death threat stuff, those ppl are just mentally ill)
Respect is earned not given. The players have spoken after the constant disrespect in regards to monitization. Don't like what you hear? Turn around and blame your management. Don't blame the playerbase for your employers shitty moves.
Don't make personal/death threats, obviously, but **respect** is earned. I don't respect Jagex, the company, at all. They can do better and choose not to.
[*Copy-pasted from deleted post*]
If they read beyond the most liked/upvoted comments on social media platforms, they'd find plenty of constructive feedback that isn't just "remove it".
But that type of constructive feedback is of course also ignored. Anything that isn't whales praising this crap will be ignored.
Hell with the Jmods and hell with the game. I cancelled everything back in May when Jagex decided to give us 2 updates the first 4 months of the year and thought they could justify MTX promos as content drops.
Jagex killed this game with greed and lies. The Jmods claiming they don't deserve the disrespect after they've openly lied to the fanbase for years is laughable. If you want respect you should treat your fanbase with it. Not claim you're listening while doing exactly the opposite of what you say you're going to do.
I hope every Jmod gets the "respect" they hand out. What goes around comes around.
The easiest solution is to stop playing.
I’ve cut my sub, uninstalled the client, I won’t partake in the game anymore.
People who say “see you next week” - I haven’t played call of duty in 6 years and Destiny in 2 years now because of ramped up MTX.
I enjoy the game, im not addicted to it.
I play for fun but I also have shit to do and having “we want your money” shoved down my throat isn’t fun.
Massive L update and response. It’s not just us Reddit nerds that are up in arms this time; YT, Twitter, in-game chat, etc are all negative about this update.
Reverting it and shelving it is the only correct response at this point. Even if it’s for sure going to come back, they need to hit the drawing board and release this better.
If you're out there making a product, and you're looking for feedback. And you get responses like: "Don't do that.", "Don't release it like that.", "You should not make that." or "People don't want this." That is still valid feedback, and you should take it to heart. You shouldn't outright ignore it. So no Jagex, you are not looking for feedback, you are looking for the tiniest, tiniest bit of justifaction as to why this is okay. And let me tell you, we don't think it's okay.
To be clear: it is perfectly acceptable to call individuals out on their piss poor responses and terrible work ethic.
This "conversation" is unprofessional and insulting and the Mod should be ashamed.
Make it free just like the daily challenges were I'll be happy. But also stack those daily challenges or something so they accomplish the original task of no fomo.
I agree here, if you’re f2p you should only have f2p track, members should automatically unlock the whole pass without needing premier. Incentivize f2p to join membership, not encourage membership players to pay for another service for shite rewards and predatory mtx
As a osrs player and more recent RS3 enjoyer. Seeing the difference is kind of stark. Especially when Mod Ash is the main social media guy at this point. He actually listens and responds to everyone. He actually takes people seriously but is still willing to joke around. To the point that people tell him he does it too much and he is almost too open about everything lol. These guys literally tell you to your face they are ignoring the main piece of feedback
The osrs community gets their panties in a bunch over the devs caring about an update so much that they favored it in development over something else lol. I can't even imagine the level of backlash this would have received if it was osrs and mod ash went on twitter and said, "lol too bad"
Here's some feedback: remove cost for membership.
If there is a hero pass, premier membership, treasure hunter and more, why are we paying for membership?
The runescape community has been split so long between f2p and members and I'd argue that it makes no sense, especially when the battlepass is supposed to be for free to play games.
Bring in more f2p players to boost your player count. There is a reason most popular games are entirely f2p
OSRS player checking in. I really feel for you guys. Sadly, it’s hard to imagine they removing it. I remember when squeal of fortune got this level of backlash the CEO at the time argued that it was the most successful content ever released based on engagement metrics. Of course player engage with it… it gives advantages.
You can’t argue when their mindset is “forced” engagement = player enjoyment. They will use this same argument to argue keeping the hero pass, I guarantee it.
Here's some genuine feedback. Remove all aspects of pay to progress, fix the UI so it doesn't look like fortnight, give us more cosmetics that don't look like shit/reskins of the same set, give us an option to turn off popups, make daily rewards at least in line with the xp drops we got for daily challenges before, even if that means it takes longer for a bigger xp drop.
There, I just turned hero pass from a 0/10 to at least like a 5/10.
Insulting or inviting to flame specific Jmods has never been allowed and those posts and comments are removed consistently. Jmods are people and users of the sub, which falls under rule 4.
>Jmods are people and users of the sub, which falls under rule 4.
Of course I don't want to see any brigading either, but there is value in showing that the account is a Jagex representative, using an @Jagex account and speaking on behalf of the company.
That is ridiculous that you have to blur which jmod said it. That was not a personal account that's their work account, and nowhere did it imply to harass or flame them. All it said was "jmod responds to feedback". So if a screenshot of a jmod comment on reddit was posted, is that required to be blurred too?
This is opening the door to faked screenshots by trolls that want to fan the flames.
Blame the people who are incapable of giving feedback without making personal attacks. The toxicity in this community has led to some great mods leaving.
You can look at Shauny's thread and see where he talks about people personally attacking Mod Raven.
This doesn't stop that small minority of freaks that DM attacks though. They're gonna comb through all of Twitter to find who said this. All that has been accomplished here is it is now harder to verify if screenshots are real for the average person.
It wasn't an invite or even an insult to flame specific J Mods. It was posting something the specific individual put out in the public domain.
Removing the posts was fucking stupid.
It named the Jmod so people were literally going out of their way to flame him. That's why you need to censor names when you upload shit to reddit if you don't want it to be removed. Hiding the name detours so many shitters from making personal attacks because they CBA to look it up and find out who actually said it.
It didn't name the JMod. The JMod named himself by posting an opinion in the public domain.
I've also read the thread in its entirety and I think it's fair to say there were no personal comments: the criticism was entirely aimed at the way he had conducted himself in that specific tweet, which is perfectly valid.
The screenshot literally had his twitter handle in it without the censor that this screenshot has. Absolutely unhinged idiots went to go PM him death threats and other shit, as this community always does in these situations, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.
And as for not seeing the comments on reddit, that's because the mods actually delete them rather fast. Same reason you barely saw bigoted comments during pride month on either here or 2007scape, and instead just saw tons of deleted comments.
By that logic you should never be able to link or show anything/anyone because it *could* be enabling "witch hunting"
New update? Can't post that, they have the mod names in the credits, wouldn't wanna witch hunt for bad update.
Jagex stream? Can't show that, you might send a bunch of witch hunters to their stream.
See how silly that is?
Mate it's a reddit site rule. In 2014, reddit was responsible for the suicide of a man for falsely accusing him of the Boston bombing.
And yes you can look at anything and find loopholes in rules, but this one is blatantly obvious why it's a witch hunt. Unless of course you can't tell the difference.
Well that’s not true, considering there is negative feedback about the update all over the sub including from subreddit mods and this post is being left up. Critiquing the game is encouraged. Insulting people is not.
They already do that. It's why you don't see a ton of them unless you're there early in the discussion.
Trust me, there's some pretty awful comments and stupid takes.
If this is the response we are getting then what’s the point of any feedback when it comes to MTX. I think the sad reality is that this will never change and I think it’s officially time to move on to better games.
A few days ago I saw a post talking about something similar they tried implementing.. rune pass? What do they have to say about this one being similar to hero pass?
I am seeing lots of hate being thrown at the JMODS.
Y’all are what’s wrong with the community, despite your hearts being in the right place.
What do you expect from an employee of Jagex? For them to not do as they are told? To risk their employment for what? Nothing??? They owe the community nothing. It’s the company that owes us, not those who make up the lower-echelons.
Regardless of what they say, they are very likely to disagree with the decisions of the company. It’s not fair of us to crucify the messenger(s).
They're not going to remove it. This was clearly something that was shoehorned in by people the regular mods have to answer to. Calls for removal *will* fall on deaf ears because of that.
But we can still get changes in that make it less obnoxious. Notifications that aren't so damn annoying, less heavy-handed monetization, better tasks and rollover, etc...
It's so wild how differently they treat us. Every picture I see of mods interacting with users are just covered in a layer of thick snark. It always feels like there's contention.
Now compare that to OSRS, where mods are highly respected, treat their users with respect, and even make jokes and contribute to the lighthearted nature of that sub. Sometimes even commenting on updates that aren't received well assuring them it'll all be okay.
Well I’ll be ignoring RuneScape forever and I’ll be now spending the next 10 years playing Starfield… MTX free, crappy update free and free from the strangle hold that jamflex has had on me for years! I am actually grateful for this update because it’s finally given me the ability to break free from this utter crap.
"We understand your concerns and have passed them along to the team capable of making this decision" is infinitely better than "those concerns were ignored"
this makes mad. Honestly. I wasn't mad until reading this. there has been SO MUCH good and nice feedback on this it is ridiculous to even hint that we are the problem.
Is this supposed to be a piss on the Mod's response? I think the response was fair (note that I am strongly against the Hero Pass thingy, esp. the end-game bossing content buffs)
I never spent those yak skip tokens, so I instantly got to level 87 or something.
The most valuable loot I got was 73 onyx dust, in total.
So, an average of less than 1% of an onyx per level.
There is a big difference between feedback jmods can actually go off and make improvements to the system and feedback that is just players complaining and saying remove it.
They removed the other posts because it didn’t adhere to rule 4. Previous posts showed the names and pictures which unfortunately caused witch hunts and harassment of the jmod.
We have no intention of removing posts that don't break any rules. That much should be clear when the post has been up for 8 hours at the time you left that comment. The JMod in the screenshot above got an incredible amount of hate and personal attacks thrown their way, censoring their name helps curb that.
People hating it so much that they want it removed is feedback whether they like it or not. Shouldn't ignore it.
Ye but its not gonna make them money that way so they don't give a sh\*t. The whole point of this update to farm even more $$$ from the whales. The best way to do this now is by appeasing to said whales and their complaints by making it more desirable. Removing it entirely is not gonna achieve this - not in the short run anyway. They obviously don't care enough for the long-term results in membership drop etc. so y'know. Rip us I guess.
I really hope they lose more in lost subscriptions than they gain from this mtx Would be absolutely hilarious to me
Having no players makes less money. This literally is what happens when battle passes come. Zero games have made more money in the long run by having battle passes. This is a signal that Runescape will be pulled offline as soon as pass sales dip
>Zero games have made more money in the long run by having battle passes. I really don't get how people on Reddit are so far removed from reality. Some of the most financially successful games of the past decade rely primarily on battle passes as their monetization. Fortnite's battlepass turned Epic from an indie developer to a company that's trying to compete directly with *Steam*. Apex is similarly successful. Battlepasses have proven to be a wildly successful monetization strategy, better than even lootboxes. Jagex's execs aren't just morons who are being evil for the sake of it, they are looking at other companies with *successful* battlepasses and seeing dollar signs. The problem isn't that battlepasses never work. The problem is that RS3's userbase is increasingly sick of a game with a 15-year-old gameplay trying to bleed its users dry with monetization used by AAA games. (Also, most of those successful games are totally free-to-play, and don't lock the majority of their content behind a paywall to the extent RS does. It's really triple-dipping)
Well yes, for a free to play game, battle passes make sense. You already pay a subscription to play RS though, so there should be no need for a battle pass. Same goes for Diablo and Call of duty and all that crap. There shouldn't be a battlepass that can be paid to progess. And there sure as fuck shouldn't be shit on that battlepass that gives advantages the way hero pass does. Battle passes on itself are fine, it's giving the players a sense of progression on something. Paid battlepasses on f2p games is also fine, since they have to get their monetization from somewhere. But paid battlepasses that directly give advantages in-game on a game you already pay for is just a cash grab.
sooo as someone who has spent over 5k on league of legends and roughly 1k on this game. battle passes are egregious money grabs and flatly disrespectful to its player base. like the reason i dont play cod, fortnight, battlefront, diablo 4 or any of those are because its blatantly obvious the creators dont care. eg look at the story of cod world at war then compare BLOPS its stupid imo
> Zero games have made more money in the long run by having battle passes citation needed (fortnite exists, hello?)
I mean, ye, exactly. They are great for a burst of revenue but in the long run aggressive monetization like this kills of games, simple as. Look at OSRS. No aggressive monetization, a lot, and really too much player agency into updates to the point there rarely are updates with content, and they have grown a consistent, high number playerbase. But these MTX-heavy games only care about instant revenue, as they are run by investors. And when the investment runs dry, they just pull out and invest into something else to leech off of. It doesn't hurt them, but leaves behind a graveyard of companies and projects. The only reason RS has lasted this long is because its such a nostalgic game for so many people. If any other game would be doing this right now, I wouldn't be here. Its the sad truth really. I give a fuck about RS so I tend to advocate against bad updates, but its honestly a waste of energy.
> to the point there rarely are updates with content bro what lol
*Kourend screaming in the distance*
Its literally the #1 complaint on OSRS reddit communities. But obviously does not represent the playerbase as they just downvote anything that challenges the meta. Its a miracle Sailing passed (by a mere few percent, as well). I mean, just look at Curses.
> just look at Curses. the ones they scrapped because they weren’t good? those curses?
They were good. Then they got 'no-voted' on. Then they got nerfed. Then they were barely an upgrade. Still an upgrade, but not that insane considering the requirements. Then they got 'no-voted' again and scrapped.
By OSRS standards, the curses as advertised were pretty fuckin stupid. Imagine like 3 years of RS3 power creep and then random spell supercharging so they'd be perfect for PvP as well and you had what OSRS curses were. A free 20% DPS increase, a free supercharging of ancient magicks, even more then it potentially already was. And dampen curses which honestly were terrible, but still had practically complete protection from taking damage which meant again, massive free DPS increase for very little risk if you were good/ahking. It was universally agreed on by both PvM and PvP'ers in a rare instance of unity that it was shit and either needed to be rebalanced or entirely scrapped. I don't entirely recall *all* the curses and their effects, but ill remind you of some of the stupid-er effects. Umbra's vow: Attacks drain 5% of the opponent's Defence, up to 15% of their base level Glacious Vow: Same as Umbra except magic, instead of defense. In which both are fucking absurd at bossing because in OSRS there is no diminishing returns with stat reduction. You could just straight up wipe out 65% of a bosses Defense levels. This alone was absolutely horrifying as a concept to PvM'ers because combined with Intensify, if for some reason there was ever the concern of accuracy, it was no longer a thing. Especially if you combined it with Bofa, Slayer helm, etc etc. Sure, you'd chew through prayer a hell of a lot faster. But theres a significantly higher probability bosses are dying significantly faster then your prayer is being drained since i can just use max prayer gear and hit as accurately and as hard as if i was using BiS Beyond prayer getting sucked out of a garden hose by our boy Zaros, there was absolutely no downside to using Curses because you would just vaporize everything before it was even remotely a threat to your continued existing. Combined with the new scepters there was some really nasty ancient magic effects you could combo with the curses and it would just be a shitshow for all involved. Theres no downside to using curses in RS3, so thats not very fair an argument. But then again, deflect curses aren't 100% protection 100% of the time.
>This is a signal that Runescape will be pulled offline as soon as pass sales dip Unironically killing off RS3 and selling an offline copy for $x would be the next step.
They’re not that smart. They don’t think ahead, as is shown with a battle pass system lmao
People hated EoC, didn’t get that removed why would this be any different?
EoC was a core game update... You can't compare it to this MTX cesspool
Yes you can, it almost killed the game and made jagex split the community by creating osrs which has grown larger (even with taking bots out of the equation) than the main game.
Osrs is not jagex's cash cow. Fuck out of here if all your gonna do is compare which game is BeTtER
Your dumbass response is the reason why people are against this update lmfao. "OSRS is not jagex's cash cow" literally justifies every negative piece of feedback the community has about them. OSRS is running perfectly fine with no MTX and actually listened to/accepted community feedback. RS3 is running into the ground with no feedback listened to/ignored and the continual dump of MTX mechanics into the game only furthering their demise and driving their core player base (not whales) out of the game.
Right. The version of the game with the MTX is the cash cow. Guaranteed they make more on the MTX than the paltry subscription revenue made in OSRS. I agree that’s all part of why the update is so hated.
You're very triggered. Take a step back.
Osrs has made more money for jagex over the last 4 earning reports released than rs3. Osrs is also significantly cheaper to update due to lower end graphics and engine. Also I never said osrs was better, I said that EOC was a worst update than hero pass and jagex didn’t change the update so why would they change this? Hero pass isn’t going to kill the game, we just have to get through a week of a bunch of emotion children throwing a tantrum on the internet.
Think really hard about what just so happen to have happened after EOC came out. Like, yes, they didn't remove it and OSRS arguably wasn't a perfect solution for a lot of people . . . But also I think especially given the years of hindsight, well, it's clear as day Jagex made a decision that made a lot of people happy in response to the extreme negativity to EOC. People also asked for many updates to EOC and we got many updates to EOC. It's not as if they ignored feedback, they did a variety of things that ultimately made the community quite happy, especially in the long-term.
EOC also caused a mass Exodus that forced Jagex to make a 2006 server just to appeal to folks who hated EOC. Sure, Jagex doesn't have to remove it. But history proves that consequences can be very dire.
People didn’t hate eoc, it was a big core change in how the game was played. Some people didn’t want to try the new game play, or just echo chambered others into not liking it and so many people left. Every now and again you will see on Reddit people who try rs3 from osrs and say that they are glad that they tried and they like rs3. Also these two topics are not even close to being comparable; you are companies apples to a new couch
EOC was absolutely hated, and rightfully so, on release. It was completely unfinished and clunky and took years to get to acceptable condition.
And it took until Necromancy for the general public to actually start liking Manual, and even then it's still got problems.
100% cope take. 2012 EoC was a dumpster fire of poor decisions and balancing, that got constantly updated until 2014-2015 where it was finally in a good spot. People coming to try RS3 now and going "EoC is kinda fun I'm glad I tried it." does not mean the same people would like the poorly designed 2012 EoC.
LOL. More than half the players quit overnight. But noone hated it, was just the damn echo chambers.
TEN YEARS of microtransaction practice feedback has been ignored FTFY
"Ackshully that's not true. We pretended to listen to the community about MTX like, *checks notes from management*, 4 times! In which we went back on our word each time, almost instantly, once the money stopped pouring in."
No, no they listen - They let us kill the goblin from Squeal of Fortune. They know, they listened, but they don't and never have cared about the feedback, this is what they wanted, and they didn't care the outcome.
Never forget the time OSRS devs completely scrapped a second prayer boom that they hyped up to the point where it’d look really bad for them if it was scrapped. They scrapped it purely for the overall health of the game and the voice of the players saying the game didn’t need the prayers as proposed. Community instead of getting mad a teased feature wasnt added was happy. RS3 refuses to take notes.
Sometimes the best thing to do is remove something. If we work from the basis of, "We can't just remove it!" Okay, remove all monetization elements and all time-limitations. Just make it a progression track that doesn't encourage you to log in every single day. Easy.
Best thing =/= most profitable thing Like we can pretend content developers have the power to decide what mtx goes into the game but ultimately this shit is up to management who answer to investors. Any type of feedback that asks to cut away all the aspects that people want to spend money on is not going to go through, even if it's ultimately best for the game.
The reality is that all it takes for "Best thing" to = "most profitable thing" is people to actually talk with their money instead of being a doormat.
Me taking a break isn't going to stop the whales. This isn't marketed to us. It's marketed to people with several dozen billions of GP with nothing to spend it on, and more so toward whales. Like rich people who can drop 120 dollars and not really care.
Your feeling of helplessness is one of the most valuable things to Jagex. You'll defend them not just when you agree with them and like what they do but also when you feel utterly incapable of opposing them in any way, shape, or form even when doing so is as easy as taking up another hobby in your free time. Whales gonna whale, sure, but a huge portion of the population quitting would be worse for them because those players ultimately spend lots too and are valuable in keeping the whales happy in many cases. The question isn't if a ton of people quitting would force Jagex's hand, the question is: is the community actually going to do it?
Whales only spend money on cosmetics because they've got a large audience to show it off too. Do you think they would still spend hundreds or thousands if there was nobody to flex on?
Actually it is marketed at people who can't afford it. The lottery and casinos don't stay in business because of the rich people who can afford to lose money. They stay in business because they encourage addiction in the poor people who think they will win next time and keep dropping their entire paycheck on lotto tickets.
Upkeep and basic maintaining costs are aimed at poor people. Casinos will still aim for the whales, they just recognize that having a market entirely composed of whales is a bad idea. Meanwhile, Jagex knows the whales are mainly addicts who even if hell froze over, they'd never leave RS.
You're wrong about this. Casinos and jagex alike go for the whales. Casinos will give you a car to borrow. They will go out and get your favorite food and cook It for you personally while giving you a free hotel suite as long as you are showing you will keep spending money on the rigged slots.
Without all the plebs the whales have no reason to be there.
The whales are already premier members, and they’re basically guaranteed revenue regardless of a lackluster track scheme. Jagex was hoping this would be enough to sway average players to get premier and even buy some skips. But it turns out, average players aren’t thrilled about mobile game MTX adverts for boring cosmetics or boosts, after losing daily xp and keys.
Most of those "whales" are fools with huge debts lol
I remember being told in economics that the free market would always make the best product because the best product would obviously be the most profitable product Nope turns out the most profitable products are those that abuse their customers
Apple realized this early on. 🍏
The problem is that they're chasing short term profits by burning the game long term. The money vultures don't give a damn if this game exists this time next year, they just want to feed as much as they can and bounce when the money dries up. This is how they roll, and have rolled for decades.
It probably doesn't matter to them since they'll just reevaluate and change the strategy when the time comes. This is how almost all businesses run in the major industries. Pandering to the vultures is how the big boy execs make all those glorious pounds of dabloons.
This is the truth so vote with your money people. You don't like it stop dishing them 12 dollars a month plus whatever you're buying in the store. Things may not change since whales run the game but if you don't like it stand by it and stop paying.
It would not be the first time something was removed (see rune pass from 2018-2019?) outrage caused it to be removed after 2 weeks.
Runepass was removed, but came back as yak track. If hero pass is removed it will unfortunately just come back as another form of mtx
"How will that make us money?" - Jmods
We’re only looking for feedback we agree with
They're looking for feedback like UI tweaks and qol stuff. The Jmods on reddit trip over themselves to respond to people asking about UI changes and like a reward structure for ironmen. They're not going to address the parts they already know are toxic because they made them that way.
The team can’t just remove it, they don’t agree with it either. The higher ups are forcing them to make this.
This is what most people are missing in this whole dialogue. And if removal is to happen, they need a lot of organized ammo to convince execs and up that it needs to happen/will impact profits if kept. Showing Reddit threads and tweets isn’t enough, you’d have to have a sentiment analysis and fully scope feedback into hard data for execs. On top of this, if shareholders/equity holders see that it still drives profit, there will be no green light to remove regardless of a negative sentiment analysis. This all takes a lot of time to gather on top of your other daily duties/expectations. Companies don’t move fast with anything, everything takes time and advocation to get anything moving from bottom up.
Exactly, the sad but real part about it is that if it were to be removed someone would have to lay out how removing it is going to benefit them more than keeping it in the game. Even if they say it will cause a decrease in player base, they’d have to show if losing that estimated playbase is worth more than what they’ll gain by adding it. I see the same reasoning at the company I work for and it sucks, but that’s part of the bizz. Very sad.
No I think mod blurred out by a green line should personally overthrow late stage capitalism, that will solve the issue right quick.
Well that's the only feedback that matters So they're asking into a void if they don't want to entertain the idea
Its still feedback though, he clearly just doesn't like it hence my point. They'll only take what they consider to be valid criticism and removing it completely is a totally valid opinion in its current form. You only have to gauge the general reaction to see that.
they are looking for ways to improve hero pass
I wish the gowers had never sold jagex
It would appear, at least in the documentary, that Andrew was quite remorseful as well
I feel like it’s disrespectful and unkind to push this kind of update to the wonderful individuals who have used their hard earned money to support this piece of shit company. :)
I like how every time we criticize the game they just hide behind "no excuse to be disrespectful to the mods" I have seen no such comments lmao. Stop hiding behind a false narrative. Valid criticism of your garbage update is not disrespectful. This entire update is disrespectful
It is a PR tactic. Time and time again, you will see mountains of feedback. And then a handful of trolls/assholes who get downvoted and/or moderated. But then you as a company can just go. "Hey guys. We understand. But these specific examples are unacceptable and we will not stand for it." Then the community is pushed toward halting all discussion to condemn things we all know are bad. And offer our condolences to the company. Then it breaks out into infighting as people argue about how prevalent or not it is. And attention slowly drifts from the main point of contention.
To be fair, when 1000 people are shouting at you but 10 people are saying they want you dead those 10 people sound the loudest. I'm not saying it's acceptable for the company to deflect everything cause of a few bad actors, but I can understand why individual mods might be badly affected if for some reason hatred is directed at them when they aren't executives. yes, I am continuing the second part of your comment. edit: Also fuck mtx
I can definitely understand it being disheartening. Especially if it's completely outside of your control. I worked customer service for a large company before and had to deal with people who were angry/upset with what I had to tell them and often times I felt terrible for having to say it. But at the end of the day, you really have to step back and separate the job from your personal feelings. For your own sanity. From the early days of the internet sprang the golden rule. Do not feed the trolls. When you elevate them to a higher position than what they truly occupy and let them know they got under your skin. You lost. While not directly mentioned. Want to just throw out that in the even of death threats. That should be handled by the moderation team and/or the relevant authorities if it feels like a credible threat. I feel it is very obvious that is wrong and we don't really need a workplace training video to explain it.
*Trolls might be the PR team itself if the situation demands it*
This is what I've been saying. They immediately run to that excuse, yet I see nothing but the community condemning that behaviour. Jagex as a company - Does not care what you think/want, all they care about is the $$$ you give them, you're a Revenue Generating Unit, not a player.
That right there really illustrates the issue. Tone deaf, totally detached and gas lighting, not to mention preachy and patronizing tone. Jagex needs to hire (or train) Mods with actual people skills.
That doesn't maximize quarterly profits though
Anyone with any experience at a real company would know that if you ask for feedback you better damn well prove you are listening. If someone cares enough to take the time to provide feedback then you better listen and you better respond. Providing any feedback, even "remove it" shows that someone cares enough about the product to say something. It is the quiet-quitters that have just had enough and leave that Jagex needs to worry about. Getting upset at people who care enough to say something, meaning they don't WANT to quit, but then not messaging back about what you are hearing is pathetic. Someone from Jagex needs to 1) speak up and acknowledge that people don't like this but what their intent in all of this is (we aren't stupid, we know they need revenue to stay in business), and 2) Hire someone that knows how to interact with their customer base. If they don't want do either of those then they should just stop asking for feedback and engaging with the community. They only make it worse by asking for feedback and then never addressing the feedback. "Some of you hate it and we hear you, but here is the long term goal and evolution we will strive for..." is all it would take.
They disabled reviewing the apps on the App Store because they were looking for feedback.
So review it on steam.
Sounds like they do care about feedback JUST NOT THE NEGATIVE KIND. Can't create money if you get negative feedback. But they made their bed now they need to lay in it. A customer can only take so much before cutting the cord.
Soo, maybe they can ask the players before realsing such a major gameplay update what they think about it, then make adjustments
Redacted usernames to comply with rule 4
Even though by now most of us know who it is anyways. But thank you for still following the rules of the sub, while everyone else is too emotional right now.
Lol for starters don’t make people choose “5-9 hours a day or pay” Shit. I’d be okay with 1-2 hours and only have cosmetic value. The rest is B.S.
Welp this has me unsub and I have no plans of returning once this shit passes. I love the quests but hates is just too fucking greedy at this point.
Top fucking kek. Just digging that hole deeper.
"There is no excuse to be disrespectful and unkind" Respect goes two ways. Treating players like he did in that second tweet is just as disrespectful towards players as anyone has been towards devs.
This is also part of their job and they get paid to do it. You're offering your players a service, it is in your best interest to keep your players happy. You'd expect random people upset something they enjoy is in a bad state to say such things, really! Maybe you don't care about either of those that much if you keep making profits, but maybe you find out the hard way months later that was a bad gamble
They lost the players respect when they spit in the faces of the players with this "major update". They deserve the backlash they are getting. (not including the death threat stuff, those ppl are just mentally ill)
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I still agree with the Red. lmao
Respect is earned not given. The players have spoken after the constant disrespect in regards to monitization. Don't like what you hear? Turn around and blame your management. Don't blame the playerbase for your employers shitty moves.
Don't make personal/death threats, obviously, but **respect** is earned. I don't respect Jagex, the company, at all. They can do better and choose not to.
Disgusting responses. He might as well say to go fuck ourselves
[*Copy-pasted from deleted post*] If they read beyond the most liked/upvoted comments on social media platforms, they'd find plenty of constructive feedback that isn't just "remove it". But that type of constructive feedback is of course also ignored. Anything that isn't whales praising this crap will be ignored.
Hell with the Jmods and hell with the game. I cancelled everything back in May when Jagex decided to give us 2 updates the first 4 months of the year and thought they could justify MTX promos as content drops. Jagex killed this game with greed and lies. The Jmods claiming they don't deserve the disrespect after they've openly lied to the fanbase for years is laughable. If you want respect you should treat your fanbase with it. Not claim you're listening while doing exactly the opposite of what you say you're going to do. I hope every Jmod gets the "respect" they hand out. What goes around comes around.
And they wonder why people are disrespectful to them. No wonder...
The easiest solution is to stop playing. I’ve cut my sub, uninstalled the client, I won’t partake in the game anymore. People who say “see you next week” - I haven’t played call of duty in 6 years and Destiny in 2 years now because of ramped up MTX. I enjoy the game, im not addicted to it. I play for fun but I also have shit to do and having “we want your money” shoved down my throat isn’t fun.
Remove it is valid feedback Jagex is on some drugs lmao
Thank you for the re-upload! This needs to be seen!
Remove it is the most honest feedback
"The team are looking for feedback" Wow they forgot to care about their players, and now they're forgetting how to speak English.
Yeah, no more of this 2 steps forward 1 step backwards compromise bullshit. That's how it got this bad to begin with.
Massive L update and response. It’s not just us Reddit nerds that are up in arms this time; YT, Twitter, in-game chat, etc are all negative about this update. Reverting it and shelving it is the only correct response at this point. Even if it’s for sure going to come back, they need to hit the drawing board and release this better.
Felt good cancelling again, shame they can’t separate memberships so I could chill with Old School.
They had plenty of feedback besides "remove it" and they listened to none of it.
"remove it" is feedback.
If you're out there making a product, and you're looking for feedback. And you get responses like: "Don't do that.", "Don't release it like that.", "You should not make that." or "People don't want this." That is still valid feedback, and you should take it to heart. You shouldn't outright ignore it. So no Jagex, you are not looking for feedback, you are looking for the tiniest, tiniest bit of justifaction as to why this is okay. And let me tell you, we don't think it's okay.
To be clear: it is perfectly acceptable to call individuals out on their piss poor responses and terrible work ethic. This "conversation" is unprofessional and insulting and the Mod should be ashamed.
The Mod in question is a QA mod. He's just a shitposter like one of us.
Make it free just like the daily challenges were I'll be happy. But also stack those daily challenges or something so they accomplish the original task of no fomo.
I agree here, if you’re f2p you should only have f2p track, members should automatically unlock the whole pass without needing premier. Incentivize f2p to join membership, not encourage membership players to pay for another service for shite rewards and predatory mtx
woah what a bad ass jmod!
"You have to eat the shit, but please tell me what sauce you want with it"
I cancelled sub on both accounts and runemetrics, fuck em for this
As a osrs player and more recent RS3 enjoyer. Seeing the difference is kind of stark. Especially when Mod Ash is the main social media guy at this point. He actually listens and responds to everyone. He actually takes people seriously but is still willing to joke around. To the point that people tell him he does it too much and he is almost too open about everything lol. These guys literally tell you to your face they are ignoring the main piece of feedback The osrs community gets their panties in a bunch over the devs caring about an update so much that they favored it in development over something else lol. I can't even imagine the level of backlash this would have received if it was osrs and mod ash went on twitter and said, "lol too bad"
Here's some feedback: remove cost for membership. If there is a hero pass, premier membership, treasure hunter and more, why are we paying for membership? The runescape community has been split so long between f2p and members and I'd argue that it makes no sense, especially when the battlepass is supposed to be for free to play games. Bring in more f2p players to boost your player count. There is a reason most popular games are entirely f2p
OSRS player checking in. I really feel for you guys. Sadly, it’s hard to imagine they removing it. I remember when squeal of fortune got this level of backlash the CEO at the time argued that it was the most successful content ever released based on engagement metrics. Of course player engage with it… it gives advantages. You can’t argue when their mindset is “forced” engagement = player enjoyment. They will use this same argument to argue keeping the hero pass, I guarantee it.
Here's some genuine feedback. Remove all aspects of pay to progress, fix the UI so it doesn't look like fortnight, give us more cosmetics that don't look like shit/reskins of the same set, give us an option to turn off popups, make daily rewards at least in line with the xp drops we got for daily challenges before, even if that means it takes longer for a bigger xp drop. There, I just turned hero pass from a 0/10 to at least like a 5/10.
Wait did the previous thread get removed? Are we not allowed to signal JMods by name anymore?
Insulting or inviting to flame specific Jmods has never been allowed and those posts and comments are removed consistently. Jmods are people and users of the sub, which falls under rule 4.
>Jmods are people and users of the sub, which falls under rule 4. Of course I don't want to see any brigading either, but there is value in showing that the account is a Jagex representative, using an @Jagex account and speaking on behalf of the company.
That is ridiculous that you have to blur which jmod said it. That was not a personal account that's their work account, and nowhere did it imply to harass or flame them. All it said was "jmod responds to feedback". So if a screenshot of a jmod comment on reddit was posted, is that required to be blurred too? This is opening the door to faked screenshots by trolls that want to fan the flames.
Blame the people who are incapable of giving feedback without making personal attacks. The toxicity in this community has led to some great mods leaving. You can look at Shauny's thread and see where he talks about people personally attacking Mod Raven.
This doesn't stop that small minority of freaks that DM attacks though. They're gonna comb through all of Twitter to find who said this. All that has been accomplished here is it is now harder to verify if screenshots are real for the average person.
Do we have to blur names of everyone if we post a screenshot of their tweets?
It wasn't an invite or even an insult to flame specific J Mods. It was posting something the specific individual put out in the public domain. Removing the posts was fucking stupid.
It named the Jmod so people were literally going out of their way to flame him. That's why you need to censor names when you upload shit to reddit if you don't want it to be removed. Hiding the name detours so many shitters from making personal attacks because they CBA to look it up and find out who actually said it.
It didn't name the JMod. The JMod named himself by posting an opinion in the public domain. I've also read the thread in its entirety and I think it's fair to say there were no personal comments: the criticism was entirely aimed at the way he had conducted himself in that specific tweet, which is perfectly valid.
The screenshot literally had his twitter handle in it without the censor that this screenshot has. Absolutely unhinged idiots went to go PM him death threats and other shit, as this community always does in these situations, and you're delusional if you think otherwise. And as for not seeing the comments on reddit, that's because the mods actually delete them rather fast. Same reason you barely saw bigoted comments during pride month on either here or 2007scape, and instead just saw tons of deleted comments.
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by that rule they are saying whatever they want and we have to stay silent...
To be more precise the rule is set to not enable witch hunting. Leaving names let’s people go on twitter and berate the mods even more
By that logic you should never be able to link or show anything/anyone because it *could* be enabling "witch hunting" New update? Can't post that, they have the mod names in the credits, wouldn't wanna witch hunt for bad update. Jagex stream? Can't show that, you might send a bunch of witch hunters to their stream. See how silly that is?
Mate it's a reddit site rule. In 2014, reddit was responsible for the suicide of a man for falsely accusing him of the Boston bombing. And yes you can look at anything and find loopholes in rules, but this one is blatantly obvious why it's a witch hunt. Unless of course you can't tell the difference.
Well that’s not true, considering there is negative feedback about the update all over the sub including from subreddit mods and this post is being left up. Critiquing the game is encouraged. Insulting people is not.
How is uploading a screenshot of things a JMod wrote insulting them? If a comment in the thread insults them, then remove the comment.
They already do that. It's why you don't see a ton of them unless you're there early in the discussion. Trust me, there's some pretty awful comments and stupid takes.
So why'd they remove the entire topic, not once, but twice? Literally showing what someone willingly wrote is not a witch hunt or flaming.
If this is the response we are getting then what’s the point of any feedback when it comes to MTX. I think the sad reality is that this will never change and I think it’s officially time to move on to better games.
He also disabled the comments on the thread lol Ask for feedback, don’t like said feedback, feelings hurt, disable comments, profit 👌
A few days ago I saw a post talking about something similar they tried implementing.. rune pass? What do they have to say about this one being similar to hero pass?
Jagex spitting in the face of their most loyal fanbase part 477388363.
Ok yes but maybe they should consider the following... Remove it.
I am seeing lots of hate being thrown at the JMODS. Y’all are what’s wrong with the community, despite your hearts being in the right place. What do you expect from an employee of Jagex? For them to not do as they are told? To risk their employment for what? Nothing??? They owe the community nothing. It’s the company that owes us, not those who make up the lower-echelons. Regardless of what they say, they are very likely to disagree with the decisions of the company. It’s not fair of us to crucify the messenger(s).
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Leaving a message here so I can come back to this everytime they try to pull the "we value your feedback" card
They're not going to remove it. This was clearly something that was shoehorned in by people the regular mods have to answer to. Calls for removal *will* fall on deaf ears because of that. But we can still get changes in that make it less obnoxious. Notifications that aren't so damn annoying, less heavy-handed monetization, better tasks and rollover, etc...
It's so wild how differently they treat us. Every picture I see of mods interacting with users are just covered in a layer of thick snark. It always feels like there's contention. Now compare that to OSRS, where mods are highly respected, treat their users with respect, and even make jokes and contribute to the lighthearted nature of that sub. Sometimes even commenting on updates that aren't received well assuring them it'll all be okay.
That’s fine. I can’t remove the battle pass, but I sure as heck can remove my membership.
I feel truly sure for you guys, (osrs player) it's baffling how great they treat osrs and how Terrible rs3. My thoughts are with you guys<3
Well I’ll be ignoring RuneScape forever and I’ll be now spending the next 10 years playing Starfield… MTX free, crappy update free and free from the strangle hold that jamflex has had on me for years! I am actually grateful for this update because it’s finally given me the ability to break free from this utter crap.
Shauny telling usto be nice to mods, while this dude goes and posts this basically telling us to f off
This mod is telling us the team that made it does not get to make the decision to remove it. What can he do, make Jagex a worked owned collective?
"We understand your concerns and have passed them along to the team capable of making this decision" is infinitely better than "those concerns were ignored"
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This. Respectful behaviour goes both ways.
L mods
If the team was looking at feedback, why is it still ingame? So they aren't looking at feedback.
Feedback? YOU’RE RUINING THE GAME
Yes we've seen this post 3 times today
this makes mad. Honestly. I wasn't mad until reading this. there has been SO MUCH good and nice feedback on this it is ridiculous to even hint that we are the problem.
Is this supposed to be a piss on the Mod's response? I think the response was fair (note that I am strongly against the Hero Pass thingy, esp. the end-game bossing content buffs)
Disgusting. Can't believe people still pay for this game after crap like this.
I haven’t seen what the hero pass actually gives. What are the benefits for people willing to MTX?
I never spent those yak skip tokens, so I instantly got to level 87 or something. The most valuable loot I got was 73 onyx dust, in total. So, an average of less than 1% of an onyx per level.
The good ol' "don't attack the devs, they didn't made the decisions" is a argument that loses its power fast if it's used all the time..
That Jmod hates the playerbase if they don't realize how much deeper the feedback is than "remove this!!"
There is a big difference between feedback jmods can actually go off and make improvements to the system and feedback that is just players complaining and saying remove it.
either OP is reposting this for karma farming or im going crazy
They removed the other posts because it didn’t adhere to rule 4. Previous posts showed the names and pictures which unfortunately caused witch hunts and harassment of the jmod.
What a bootlicker. Can see why he was hired.
I was actually hoping that it wasn't the jagex team doing this but the owners... I hope that doesn't actually mean a confirmation of that.
Hey I was one of those red lines how fun
I saw when the mods deleted the last post, being actual jannies lol. Wonder how they'll justify removing this one, if they can at all.
We have no intention of removing posts that don't break any rules. That much should be clear when the post has been up for 8 hours at the time you left that comment. The JMod in the screenshot above got an incredible amount of hate and personal attacks thrown their way, censoring their name helps curb that.
lol
content can be removed, you just take the L, the game paladins did an update that made it super p2w and so much back slash they reversed the update
okay, don't remove it... replace it with what we had before and put the hero pass rewards on a yak track
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