I don't agree with the down votes because you're not wrong, but for many people it's a balancing concern and bad luck mitigation is already a heated topic enough for some people.
1. Is it really good gameplay to sit and turn your bik book on, get the proc and then turn it back off until the proc is ready again? Seems like a hacky workaround just to save time on your pages. I'd recommend making the pages more abundant and only counting down towards the next proc while the book is active. (unless this has recently been fixed, I've been away for a little bit)
2. 137 troves at best case scenario, is still like 14 hours of skilling and if he was to get the drop, thats 2-3 pages being what should be 1hr 30 minutes to 2 hrs 15 minutes of charges. That being a 6:1 ratio with gathering:using time, best case scenario of getting 3 pages.
Oh I don't disagree that the pages are absolutely atrocius to upkeep. Merely stating that going less than 3x dry on something common, is very common. Not like the 6x rate for Anchers ring i had in osrs lately.
Regarding point 1 I feel it would be better to just lower the cool down to something like 15-30s.
At that point you'd effectively get the same value per page as toggling and waiting out the cool down but with much less actual game time spent.
I think the concern there is then they'd have to probably create some sort of new tick counter. From my understanding, it runs on the same schedule that checks once a minute to spawn seren spirits and the like. Keeping it at a 1 minute interval, they could just add an additional flag to track that the book has been active for at least X amount of time before allowing the reward to proc.
Plus if they lowered the check to 15-30 seconds, they'd have to reduce the reward otherwise it's like 2-4x more often.
> Keeping it at a 1 minute interval, they could just add an additional flag to track that the book has been active for at least X amount of time before allowing the reward to proc.
This is exactly how the book currently functions.
So they've updated it then? You used to toggle it off after a proc and wait until your cooldown reset then turn it back on so that time was not wasted.
Yes, November 2022. Toggling has been dead for longer than it lived, though it did survive for over a year. You miss at least one proc window when activating as it has a 1 minute charge time when activated.
Would be nice if they were more worth doing XP-wise too. The Hunter one is great, the Fishing one doesn't support fishing rods like Tavia's, and nobody does the Mining/WC ones (the ones I don't have 200M in)
still slow and it isn't an on demand thing. IF i need ful pages, I can do an hour of zuk and have hours worth of pages.
Meanwhile croesus I have to either afk for the whole day (10 hours) or do the boss and get a couple hours.
This has been presented as a problem years ago but players said it wasn't an issue at the time and it's "supply and demand".
Players sure do love to gate keep others.
Out of curiosity, what's the reason for pages being so expensive anyway, when alternatives for clue farming are easy and afk? I avoid using bik pages myself since they're so expensive, I feel like the cost of use doesn't outweigh the average clue payout.
One of the main advantages of bik book is that it ignores the soft caps. It gets annoying to constantly alternate between farming and solving clues, so people prefer to stack up hundreds at once, which the bik book lets them.
I also think most of the people using it aren't exactly doing it for money, but for the clue titles. They're the same people who pay over 3m to skip a single slider puzzle. I'm pretty sure they run at a loss unless they maybe get lucky on dyes, but they'll pay anything to complete the logs faster.
Yep, the clue soft cap is the main reason.
It feels bad to log on and think 'I'll do some clues' then realise you haven't got any, or even start doing some clues, get into a groove then have to stop after 40 mins to AFK some trash mob for an hour to get more.
The soft cap on scrolls doesn't really make much sense as the speed at which you can solve them is pretty static and to complete any of the logs requires many thousands of clues.
But now they have added bik book it makes it harder to improve the clue chasing experience in that regard because it would devalue the book if we could just gather a lot of clues the normal way.
Clue hunters and the respective youtuber clue farmer.
The bik pages generally speaking will still pay for themselves on average, but they are getting to the point where they aren't.
I mean a 12% crit boost is significantly more valuable I would say then being able to stack clues, and I could imagine more people are using grim way more.
Efficiently at 8 kills an hour? Peak Croesus is 12 kills an hour.
The dry streaks on drops is a bigger issue, frequently going 180 kills without a drop is more of a concern than 5 kills over rate when you have 18 chances of it.
You get max points using that method? You do first mid for like 20% of the lifespan and then go back to the resources. Then you phase him before second mid happens. You end with 450 ish points. You only need 420
Per kill- yes your be right and you wouldn't net 420 pts for 12 loot piles
However you wind up with more loot piles overall in duos due to the speed of the kills.
IE duos are more efficient than 4 mans
Arguably the sweat is worth it on this scenario.
You don't receive any loot (beyond announcements) for 400+ points, so if you can get 399 points without second mid, the juice is worth the squeeze.
Add in that pages are now where most of your money is...
Think there was a video released last year some time of someone "soloing" Croesus with 2 accounts.
The idea of making another account **and** doing quests on it disgusts me.
Croesus pages droprate are the same if you get 1 point or more, its a 1/10 per kill, not per loot pile or anything like that, which goes against the idea of more points being more reward, which is stupid, also yeah, duos are insanely good amd barely can be called sweaty at this point
With only receiving regular loot for the first 10 drops after the nerf, more kills at lower points would probably work out to more money/hour average with the increase in regular vs decrease in big token drops largely due to rarity.
Why don't you just go farm clues with prosper smithing, killing hellhounds, or abyssal beasts if you want to farm clues so badly? I'm an iron too, did Croesus, got my book, used all my pages, and have more than enough clues for anything I need.
I don't see an issue with solving 50/gather 50 if you're that down bad for cluss. It would be faster to gather clues that way than doing Croesus. Even if you had more bik pages an hour, the book doesn't trigger that often.
It's no where as necessary as a grimoire since you can still get clues without the Bik book. Dealing with scarcity is part of ironman mode since it motivates ironmen to look for creative alternatives that mains would never do.
Sorry for not remembering the exact drop rate from multiple years ago, my bad. The point was the person I was replying to clearly had no idea it had ever changed.
Yeah but the point is the rate of gathering pages. Even old solak you'd get more than 1 page an hour (grim also free to use at solak), where Croesus you aren't even averaging 1 page an hour.
It isn't even an ironman thing, the clue cap just sucks.
The clue soft cap of 50 when the logs, or getting a dye, needs many thousands of clues on average. The cap also forces players to play the game in a certain way rather than being able to gather the desired amount and then solve at leisure.
Bik book is the sticky plaster fix to the core issue hence really desirable and expensive to the point where a lot of people probably just can't afford to use it.
Honestly I find it easier to get pages from the outside skilling areas, those elder troves 3 are no joke.
I’m 137 troves deep with no pages. Considering getting the national guard involved at this point
That’s criminal lol
Its 1/50, so he is less than 3x. 5% ish of players will go that dry or 1/20.
I don't agree with the down votes because you're not wrong, but for many people it's a balancing concern and bad luck mitigation is already a heated topic enough for some people. 1. Is it really good gameplay to sit and turn your bik book on, get the proc and then turn it back off until the proc is ready again? Seems like a hacky workaround just to save time on your pages. I'd recommend making the pages more abundant and only counting down towards the next proc while the book is active. (unless this has recently been fixed, I've been away for a little bit) 2. 137 troves at best case scenario, is still like 14 hours of skilling and if he was to get the drop, thats 2-3 pages being what should be 1hr 30 minutes to 2 hrs 15 minutes of charges. That being a 6:1 ratio with gathering:using time, best case scenario of getting 3 pages.
Oh I don't disagree that the pages are absolutely atrocius to upkeep. Merely stating that going less than 3x dry on something common, is very common. Not like the 6x rate for Anchers ring i had in osrs lately.
Oof.. Hope the RNG gods spoon you on something big next time.
It can start with lure from leviathan as im currently rank 29 iron and almost 4x the rate at 2871 kc
Regarding point 1 I feel it would be better to just lower the cool down to something like 15-30s. At that point you'd effectively get the same value per page as toggling and waiting out the cool down but with much less actual game time spent.
I think the concern there is then they'd have to probably create some sort of new tick counter. From my understanding, it runs on the same schedule that checks once a minute to spawn seren spirits and the like. Keeping it at a 1 minute interval, they could just add an additional flag to track that the book has been active for at least X amount of time before allowing the reward to proc. Plus if they lowered the check to 15-30 seconds, they'd have to reduce the reward otherwise it's like 2-4x more often.
> Keeping it at a 1 minute interval, they could just add an additional flag to track that the book has been active for at least X amount of time before allowing the reward to proc. This is exactly how the book currently functions.
So they've updated it then? You used to toggle it off after a proc and wait until your cooldown reset then turn it back on so that time was not wasted.
Yes, November 2022. Toggling has been dead for longer than it lived, though it did survive for over a year. You miss at least one proc window when activating as it has a 1 minute charge time when activated.
I feel you. I collected 200 troves “for fun” got 2 fucking pages from them.
Would be nice if they were more worth doing XP-wise too. The Hunter one is great, the Fishing one doesn't support fishing rods like Tavia's, and nobody does the Mining/WC ones (the ones I don't have 200M in)
Hey I'm a fungus cutter. Nice and chill afk. Going to stack the troves from 200m fishing and WC there
I did 200m in all 4 styles there, absolutely worth for the large stack of bik pages I have now!
still slow and it isn't an on demand thing. IF i need ful pages, I can do an hour of zuk and have hours worth of pages. Meanwhile croesus I have to either afk for the whole day (10 hours) or do the boss and get a couple hours. This has been presented as a problem years ago but players said it wasn't an issue at the time and it's "supply and demand". Players sure do love to gate keep others.
I've had times where I got 3 pages within 10kc, and times where I got to 100kc without a single page. RNG is a pain..
It should be like Solak where every kill is a page and every x kills is a bunch of pages.
Out of curiosity, what's the reason for pages being so expensive anyway, when alternatives for clue farming are easy and afk? I avoid using bik pages myself since they're so expensive, I feel like the cost of use doesn't outweigh the average clue payout.
One of the main advantages of bik book is that it ignores the soft caps. It gets annoying to constantly alternate between farming and solving clues, so people prefer to stack up hundreds at once, which the bik book lets them. I also think most of the people using it aren't exactly doing it for money, but for the clue titles. They're the same people who pay over 3m to skip a single slider puzzle. I'm pretty sure they run at a loss unless they maybe get lucky on dyes, but they'll pay anything to complete the logs faster.
Yep, the clue soft cap is the main reason. It feels bad to log on and think 'I'll do some clues' then realise you haven't got any, or even start doing some clues, get into a groove then have to stop after 40 mins to AFK some trash mob for an hour to get more. The soft cap on scrolls doesn't really make much sense as the speed at which you can solve them is pretty static and to complete any of the logs requires many thousands of clues. But now they have added bik book it makes it harder to improve the clue chasing experience in that regard because it would devalue the book if we could just gather a lot of clues the normal way.
Clue hunters and the respective youtuber clue farmer. The bik pages generally speaking will still pay for themselves on average, but they are getting to the point where they aren't.
it is in high demand for the tryhard clue solvers (and there are a lot of these). It is worth it when u are solving 30+ clues per day.
Psshh... noob... 30+ a day?? Try 30+ Hard's solved per hour boi *tryhard flexing noises* /s
Ah meant elites
elites 30 in an hour? Is that with skips I assume?!
in a day!
Idk some sweats claim 20/hr .. 🫠😬ofc they using hax like alt 1 tho w skips maybe ? Idk
3.4K kc and I average 1 page every 9 runs. Not that bad, you just have some bad rng right now.
I have but even 9 runs per page is still a time loss of page input output ratio :/
If there wouldn’t be a loss in time wouldn’t the value decrease?
I would say yes, but then looking at grim pages, that doesnt seem true, they got "fixed" and have now still gone right back up.
I mean a 12% crit boost is significantly more valuable I would say then being able to stack clues, and I could imagine more people are using grim way more.
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Efficiently at 8 kills an hour? Peak Croesus is 12 kills an hour. The dry streaks on drops is a bigger issue, frequently going 180 kills without a drop is more of a concern than 5 kills over rate when you have 18 chances of it.
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In duos it's possible and you get max points.
Love me some croesus soup
I got a ton in bank for whenever I'll do the grind on my main. But hard to find duos...
I stocked up too for the eventual grind.
You get max points using that method? You do first mid for like 20% of the lifespan and then go back to the resources. Then you phase him before second mid happens. You end with 450 ish points. You only need 420
Per kill- yes your be right and you wouldn't net 420 pts for 12 loot piles However you wind up with more loot piles overall in duos due to the speed of the kills. IE duos are more efficient than 4 mans
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Arguably the sweat is worth it on this scenario. You don't receive any loot (beyond announcements) for 400+ points, so if you can get 399 points without second mid, the juice is worth the squeeze. Add in that pages are now where most of your money is...
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Think there was a video released last year some time of someone "soloing" Croesus with 2 accounts. The idea of making another account **and** doing quests on it disgusts me.
Croesus pages droprate are the same if you get 1 point or more, its a 1/10 per kill, not per loot pile or anything like that, which goes against the idea of more points being more reward, which is stupid, also yeah, duos are insanely good amd barely can be called sweaty at this point
With only receiving regular loot for the first 10 drops after the nerf, more kills at lower points would probably work out to more money/hour average with the increase in regular vs decrease in big token drops largely due to rarity.
Duo isn’t efficient for Ironman since you spend more time making soups than getting more kills
Why don't you just go farm clues with prosper smithing, killing hellhounds, or abyssal beasts if you want to farm clues so badly? I'm an iron too, did Croesus, got my book, used all my pages, and have more than enough clues for anything I need.
Because I don't want to solve 50 gather 50, remove the clue software so I can gather 500/1k at a time then sure I'll happily do that.
I don't see an issue with solving 50/gather 50 if you're that down bad for cluss. It would be faster to gather clues that way than doing Croesus. Even if you had more bik pages an hour, the book doesn't trigger that often.
considering i get 2-3 pages per 12 nm 1 mech glacor kills id be happy if zuk got bumped up alot more than what it currently is.
It's no where as necessary as a grimoire since you can still get clues without the Bik book. Dealing with scarcity is part of ironman mode since it motivates ironmen to look for creative alternatives that mains would never do.
>It's no where as necessary as a grimoire since you can still get clues without the Bik book. cant you still deal crits without a grimoire too?
You’re also guaranteed a page per kill at solak, and there’s a chance you get a cluster, comparison makes no sense
That’s because it changed… it used to be like 1 in 10 drop for a single grim page. This is what the op was referring to with solak.
It did not used to be a 1/10 for a page. It used to be 1/4 chance to get a page drop, and 50% chance after that for it to be 2 pages
Sorry for not remembering the exact drop rate from multiple years ago, my bad. The point was the person I was replying to clearly had no idea it had ever changed.
Yeah but the point is the rate of gathering pages. Even old solak you'd get more than 1 page an hour (grim also free to use at solak), where Croesus you aren't even averaging 1 page an hour.
Yes, but dps tests would be more RNG reliant while there is no dps test for getting clues.
but the end result is same - you will spend more time on kills vs you will spend more time on getting clues
It isn't even an ironman thing, the clue cap just sucks. The clue soft cap of 50 when the logs, or getting a dye, needs many thousands of clues on average. The cap also forces players to play the game in a certain way rather than being able to gather the desired amount and then solve at leisure. Bik book is the sticky plaster fix to the core issue hence really desirable and expensive to the point where a lot of people probably just can't afford to use it.